Oh definitely
#h1-builds-and-combat
spiral badge
UC hurts PS wayyyyy worse
FF all day if the chips are down. You need the consistency then
cunning urchin
But FF is still more consistent for Chiron because you wouldn't skip Deadly Flourish if you see it.
silver summit
what's UC
hearty elbow
I more or less agree, but I've gotten Twin Shot and offered Artemis so many times doing this I quit cold turkey.
cunning urchin
Underworld Customs.
Yeah, I take FF on Chiron unless I really want a Low Tolerance run just for fun.
Or sometimes stuff like Heartbreak Strike + Frost Flourish can be fun. Things like that.
hearty elbow
DC1+ Low Tolerance builds should take Privileged Status though. There, found a use case.
cunning urchin
"Take Privileged Status."—@hearty elbow, 2021
silver summit
"Take Privileged Status."—<@!143840804899782656>, 2021
ledger check my status
pulsar jewel
You guys railing on privileged status? If you build your pact in a way where the emphasis is on EM4 final fight with potentially some more heat in there privileged status is awesome because it's just more damage for the important fights
hearty elbow
Yeah, sorry, didn't mean to be so confrontational, I just get triggered when I see people suggest things like Drunken Dash or Mistral Dash to enable PS. Or using special on Zag bow, or special to trigger status on Fists
spiral badge
Oh no, good choices only. Use with caution for sure
cunning urchin
If I take EM4, it's at heats where Privileged Status is virtually a non-factor.
pulsar jewel
What heat level are we talking about then?
hearty elbow
Lol, yeah that's my deal with EM4 as well. If you're at the heat where PS is consistent, oof why on earth would you do EM4. Also at that level of heat, timer will likely not be the main stopgap for superdad. Living probably is the bigger problem.
somber drum
It's just been a long time since these vets wanted that EM4 feather in their cap at 10 heat and desperately needed all the edge they could get.
hearty elbow
I wouldn't even give EM4 a consideration until 52ish+ on non-shields.
pulsar jewel
I play exclusively EM4
hearty elbow
Do that, the fight is fun and epic then 🙂
pulsar jewel
I don't get why people wouldn't want the final boss to actually be the hard part of the run
cunning urchin
Yeah, what ledgerdamayn said.
pulsar jewel
I played without EM4 before and every time I build an awesome build that could take EM4 i was so let down. I'd think get up but he won't
I'd rather die sometimes to enjoy the fun of beating him the other times
hearty elbow
EM4 just scales very grossly with heat. It's not really "the hardest part of the run" as much as it is "you're not finishing the run"
pulsar jewel
I mean, just don't take forced overtime
hearty elbow
Shrug, I think the game feels like molasses without it. That's why it's good you can pick your pacts 🙂
pulsar jewel
I don't really get why people emphasize that, it's the "hey let's make trash AND the boss super difficult"
hearty elbow
Trash isn't trash when it's hard
fervent elbow
EM4 only is fine, problem is when you add other pact conditions
hearty elbow
The entire game is challenging at that point
Trash mobs is a pretty MMORPG mentality
pulsar jewel
So which heat level specifically are we talking about?
Because it matters a lot for his convo, higher heat levels you have to take some annoying stuff, but for 32 you can easily do EM4 without FO
hearty elbow
For EM4: HL, CP, FO, DC and TD affect it directly. RI, AP, CF, UC, affect it indirectly.
By gimping your builds
hearty elbow
That's not how the game works
pulsar jewel
It is
cunning urchin
Yeah, not really.
pulsar jewel
Different things are differently powerful on different heat levels
hearty elbow
The number is a number. I'd argue 16 heat FO2 EM4 is harder than 40 heat on most aspects
pulsar jewel
So accepting just people's opinion on something being bad without them telling which heat level they're thinking about, it matters a lot
So would like to hear some specific heat levels so I can take in the info with context
@hearty elbow for sure
cunning urchin
If I take EM4 FO0, I wouldn't need whatever damage PS might offer over FF, and I find the claim that it adds more damage than FF dubious at best.
hearty elbow
We're trying to give you context lol, but you're asking for hard number breakpoints. We're saying hard number breakpoints for difficultly don't really exist. It's all about pacts, aspects, and builds.
turbid needle
Late to the convo, here goes. While you are waiting for Privileged status to kick in, you get no damage bonus. Early game damage is very important on Zeus shield. Also, chances are, you are going to not proc the 2 statuses immediately, due to the nature of some dashes (Dio/Aphro), and that means it's not always active for rooms. By the time you'd get a consistent Privileged Status proc, Family Favorite is already at 25%, 30% sometimes even. The difference late-game is negligible, while early on, it means you take on worse boon options to activate a bonus that won't even proc on the first few hits
pulsar jewel
but i'm not talking about trying to construct the worst scaling heat setup, i'm talking about what kind of heat levels are people playing who are claiming something is bad
turbid needle
I've tested both a lot
pulsar jewel
concretely, on lower heat levels privileged status is very good if you set up your pact in a way that the focus in hardness is in the latter parts of the game
cunning urchin
@turbid needle, thanks for answering my call. 
cloud vault
Privileged Status is also awful when your first one or two hits are enough to outright just kill the mob - or would be of you had FF active.
pulsar jewel
like let's say heat levels 25
so could someone who is making the claim that privileged status is bad tell which heat level they think it's bad on
it's not bad on 25
turbid needle
Privileged Status isn't bad, just worse more often then not then Family Favorite.
spiral badge
Late to the convo, here goes. While you are waiting for Privileged status to kic...
He has spoken
Thank you oh swami
hearty elbow
Privileged Status gets bad as soon as you invoke some combination of CF, UC, AP, or RI, particularly if you have TD2+
pulsar jewel
well then don't have TD2+
i'm giving you guys one last chance to give context to your claims
hearty elbow
Dude, we don't have to engage with you lmao. "Last chance" k.
cunning urchin
Hades wipes all status effects anytime he's invisible, anyway. Again, I find the claim that PS adds more damage in EM4 dubious at best.
pulsar jewel
with a configurable pact and a million player playerbase claims like "X is bad" are bad because the game allows you to make them good
hearty elbow
Cool.
pulsar jewel
@cunning urchin i mean it literally does though?
very often i get deflect + expose and then another status from my primary attack
it's a trivial way of proccing privileged status on redacted
i don't need to set it up, it's automatic
turbid needle
"Requires you to pick up another boon to activate"
pulsar jewel
and as to the cost of the early game, i purposely set up my pact that the difficulty is in the final fight, not in the middle
turbid needle
"Automatic"
pulsar jewel
it's 40% global damage mate
turbid needle
I also do speedruns
pulsar jewel
because you need help in the beginning
but as a newsflash to all of you guys, there's millions of ways to play the game
turbid needle
Family Favorite has done me much better overall then Privileged Status
pulsar jewel
and not everyone plays at your specific heat level
so when you make universal claims about something being bad, well consider not doing those at all
hearty elbow
NIce.
pulsar jewel
but second at least give the context of what you're talking about, because it fundamentally changes what you're saying
serene zealot
Wasn't this convo started because someone asked about the bow in heat over 16?
turbid needle
I do speedruns and high heat runs. I find Family Favorite to be better in both of these contexts
Happy ?
serene zealot
Aka, higher heat
pulsar jewel
@serene zealot well 16 heat is like starting heat
i wouldn't consider it high
you get 15 from vanilla EM4
hearty elbow
Less than 5% of poeple have hit 16 heat.
turbid needle
10*
pulsar jewel
well 15 on hell mode
@turbid needle i am very happy
because that sort of statement has value
serene zealot
To you, perhaps, but everyone has a different idea of difficult.
pulsar jewel
people know the context and can figure out more than just blanket statements
people won't automatically know your context
serene zealot
You might find 16 heat easy whereas I would struggle with anything over 4
pulsar jewel
@serene zealot well for sure, but in the context of this conversation these guys are making claims that privileged status is super bad, when it's only bad at 30+ heat
cloud vault
Btw you don't even have ps or FF on 64
cunning urchin
lol
pulsar jewel
because you can basically build 30 heat just by buffing the final fights + taking all the free heat
fervent elbow
At any heat I find FF better than PS
serene zealot
I've been reading the whole thing, seemed more like PS wasn't bad but just outdone by FF.
turbid needle
^
fervent elbow
At low heat, you nearly one shot adds, and at high heat, you don't have the boons to trigger consistently PS
turbid needle
That's literally it
serene zealot
Again, each person has a different opinion and view of things
pulsar jewel
@fervent elbow yeah and there's more variance to heat than just minimum and maximum
in fact there's all the levels between zero and 64
hearty elbow
Also, while we're at it. Context isn't a number, it's a qualitative metric. The pacts make the heat, the number doesn't dictate the difficulty.
pulsar jewel
and for example for a player who is farming bounties, they spend their majority of time in the middle
or lowish middle
cunning urchin
You've yet to prove the premise of your argument that PS actually has more value than FF for EM4.
hearty elbow
Spending a dash to approach Dad to apply Exposed is already such a massive cost. It's not automatic
pulsar jewel
well i make it to redacted 100% of the time at 20 heat while farming bounties, but i take EM4 for the challenge, so i build my builds to beat hades
so i take privileged status because it has a meaningful impact with what being 20% more global damage
cloud vault
8 gods means you have 40% on FF
pulsar jewel
is that enough of proof for you or do you demand like hard data?
@cloud vault are you serious?
turbid needle
15%* By the end of a run. Because Hermes counts as well. At minimum
cunning urchin
That's no proof, no. It's hypothesis.
pulsar jewel
@cunning urchin and what in fact do you have?
hearty elbow
The surrounding ideas there are what you had to do to apply the 2 statuses, the damage you missed for the 2 abilities you used for the 2 statuses, the opportunity cost for other boons or rooms you could have taken to get them...
pulsar jewel
this is the frigging internet the only thing we have here are arguments to back our claims
cunning urchin
Established meta.
pulsar jewel
established meta on bounty collecting?
do you guys have that or are you talking out of your ass?
cunning urchin
You need to learn some respect.
dusky drum
damn i didnt mean for this to go into an argument, i just told someone that ps is nice on rama ;w;
hearty elbow
You had a question. We answered. You wanted context. We gave you context. You wanted a number. We told you that's not the way it works. You told us we're wrong. Someone gave you an oversimplified number to placate you. And yet your'e still going.
pulsar jewel
no in fact you need to learn some respect, and some open mindedness about there being many ways to play the game
somber drum
damn i didnt mean for this to go into an argument, i just told someone that ps i...
Hades hot take of the millennium!
pulsar jewel
the alternative is living in an echo chamber not learning anything new
hearty elbow
You must tell us how that is
cunning urchin
lol
silver summit
Less than 5% of poeple have hit 16 heat.
sorry for the bother but is there anything to keep track of this for 32 since there's no 32h ach on steam
dusky drum
but yea once you start getting higher in heats like 40ish things start becoming objective
hearty elbow
There's the 32 heat Skelly statue
pulsar jewel
@dusky drum yeah for absolutely sure
hearty elbow
But beyond that is just for personal completion
dusky drum
like gods pride over legacy, it only gets better with heat
pulsar jewel
that's why i was asking for the heat levels
serene zealot
I love PS but it does have it's issues.
For example, you either need two moves, each with a curse, to apply it, or sea storm for one move. The former requires using both moves, or getting very risky with dash attacks to get it off often, and depending on your build, will need more then just the two boons.
The latter requires two boons to get sea storm as an option, then sea storm itself, and both tier two curse boons.
FF just requires you have a boon from someone to up the bonus. (Do Hermes and Chaos count towards it as well?)
pulsar jewel
because on higher heats the choices you can make are way less
cloud vault
Well yes I can get 8 gods
turbid needle
Hermes, yes. Chaos, no
silver summit
There's the 32 heat Skelly statue
i meant a % for how many people did it, there's nothing to show that since it's not an ach is there
pulsar jewel
but like 15-25 heat you can cater the game to do almost whatever you please
cloud vault
In fact I got like 10 when there was a challenge for it
pulsar jewel
so don't really like the mindset that there is only one way to play the game
serene zealot
Hermes, yes. Chaos, no
Good to know
hearty elbow
When you take hangover chiron out for a spin
Only if you don't have Deadly Strike for Splitting Headache, and if you do have DC 🙂
cloud vault
I just go hangover special and weak or doom as I find them
hearty elbow
Doom is pretty bad with PS imo. 1.1 seconds, by the time it pops you have like 2/3 of your Hangover unbuffed
turbid needle
Make that 1.6 seconds with Impending. But yeah
pulsar jewel
most consistent PS activation is putting it on dash + primary damage, or cast + primary damage
Or on the multitude of weapons that like to do special into attacking, so you put them on those
spiral badge
Yeah I like doom for ps
But it’s another one that likes a t2
At least it isn’t completely necessary though
And ps makes curse of longing somewhat useful again lol
hearty elbow
If doom is your primary damage source it's fine, since it'll always get the PS damage, but for Hangover builds you want the entire Hangover debuff to be benefit
pulsar jewel
i usually get PS activation in asphodel, but sometimes it takes me until elysium
spiral badge
Yeah I’m not really talking Chiron in particular
Ares is more of a great support god for Dio builds
hearty elbow
Yeah for sure. I like Doom on Chiron with FF
pulsar jewel
i always get four gods in elysium, so that's usually when i at the latest get PS as well, which i might as well seeing as elysium is the first act where you might start running into problems if your build wouldn't be working
as to the ridiculous notion of getting 8 gods, you would never want to do that because you can't build for sheeit then
spiral badge
Aphro attack + doom special + PS + zag shield is my go-to caveman 0iq build lol
pulsar jewel
and i do make that claim universally
serene zealot
Do you get exposed on foes via just hitting them with a core Athena boon? Like, dashing through a numbskull with Divine Dash.
If so, would a PS ME run work?
spiral badge
Do you get exposed on foes via just hitting them with a core Athena boon? Like, ...
Yes and I think yes
I know her dash definitely does
turbid needle
It does work. Some folks have tried
pulsar jewel
@serene zealot correct
spiral badge
It’s the t2 I hunt for when I’m running PS with her dash
serene zealot
oooooo guess I know my next fist build
pulsar jewel
that's why like 75% i get divine dash + expose from athena
turbid needle
Losing the early game damage from FF was more of a loss then PS, since if you got Blinding Flash, it wasn't the Athena attack, dash or Merciful End itself
Hell, I'd take Proud Bearing over Blinding Flash
pulsar jewel
@turbid needle yeah, i would too if i was having difficulties in the early game
spiral badge
Yeah. In the vein of poor choices I only take that boon for the PS curse
pulsar jewel
can you see why the context matters now
people play differently, with different pact configurations, with skills that differ in what they find difficult
pulsar jewel
i very rarely use ares on PS activation
well, unless i'm on a specifically doom build
in which case i do athena ares duo
spiral badge
Why must you be so cruel Ares-senpai 😢
pulsar jewel
and well yeah i do take PS on that
spiral badge
Ares secretly has the best t2 kit next to Zeus and Artemis change my mind
hearty elbow
... Poseidon
spiral badge
Some of his helper boons are so, so delicious
cloud vault
Ares has access to ME so yeah
brazen nest
hey
spiral badge
Even things like his blade rift T2s and impending doom and Dire
Blade rift t2s with his dash get out of control quick
brazen nest
to active demeter special boost i need to hit with atack or any strike?
turbid needle
to active demeter special boost i need to hit with atack or any strike?
Any
AKA, Dash attack and attack
brazen nest
i meant, do special hits count towards the activation?
cunning urchin
There are three people who've been at the forefront of Hades theory since early access telling you your claims are dubious at best, and we're the ones "not learning anything new". Some humility rather than preaching might do you some good.
As @hearty elbow tried to explain to you, adjusting your playstyle by e.g. dashing at Hades just to apply Exposed for PS will affect both your DPS and survivability in unpredictable ways. Hades also wipes all status curses any time he goes invisible. Claiming PS is "obviously" better without even acknowledging that belies a lack of understanding of how to optimize your damage. You might be right, but that's yet to be shown. Divine Dash is not exactly a choice for DPS, either way, unless you run Merciful End.
FF is meta for speedruns and for high heat for good reason: you deal more damage more consistently.
pulsar jewel
@brazen nest only attacks (strike and dash-strike), i think it says on the description
hearty elbow
Razor Shoals, Wave Pounding, Breaking Wave, and Rip Current are all extremely good. Ares has... spinnier spins, and Doom buffs that either don't matter or actively brick your builds (e.g. Dire MIsfortune on ME or Impending Doom on CoL)
spiral badge
True. Posiedon probably is the dark horse champion
brazen nest
the descriptions says "strikes"
turbid needle
spiral badge
On the grounds that ares stuff is indeed only situational sometimes
turbid needle
It's only attacks and dash-attacks
spiral badge
the descriptions says "strikes"
Don’t think too hard buddy. They only mean your A-button when they say that
Anything that button does counts
brazen nest
alrite, so what's the meta? strike until giga cutter?
turbid needle
Pretty much
spiral badge
Hold down attack
Count to 3 or 4
Dash attack twice
Take an enemy off the board the moment cutter charges, and rinse repeat
brazen nest
it's such a weird weapon, ok
spiral badge
That damage rotation is just a basic good fist damage rotation
3 or 4 regular strikes, then reset the combo with 1 or 2 dash attacks and reset
Until the cutter is charged
cunning urchin
alrite, so what's the meta? strike until giga cutter?
The meta is get Merciful End asap.
cloud vault
Then sell divine flourish and get deadly and pick up reversal 😜
cunning urchin
That's not meta. But it can work, I suppose.
cloud vault
That's like best case
turbid needle
Best you can do next to Merciful End is Zeus attack, Artemis special and go with whatever else falls in your way
cunning urchin
Hmmm.
I'd rather take Heartbreak Flourish + Lightning Strike and get Smoldering Air.
turbid needle
That is also an option
cunning urchin
I think it's a lot better than Deadly Flourish.
cloud vault
Lightning rod is pretty decent if you get it
cunning urchin
Ew.
turbid needle
Lightning Rod good on non-cast weapons
And a misery otherwise. That pickup range reduction is huge
pulsar jewel
does it tick like once per second?
pulsar jewel
yeah, it's a lot of free damage
cloud vault
And applies jolting
pulsar jewel
you have to not run stygian soul though, which i tend to do a lot on non-cast builds
turbid needle
It's not something I'd force. But if it happens, sure why not
cunning urchin
Zeus' Aid with Smoldering Air can do more than half your DPS. Lightning Rod doesn't even come close to that.
pulsar jewel
what do you guys do with that? stygian soul or infernal soul on non-cast builds
silver summit
i take stygian
turbid needle
Stygian. Makes it more likely to see +dashes and Hyper Sprint from Hermes
pulsar jewel
like i'd like to run infernal soul because it is more freedom if you happen to take a cast, but i hate it when i get fast cast from hermes
hearty elbow
Stygian typically on non-cast. Some exceptions are Guan Yu, where you can sneak a cast in between your damage loop really efficiently
cloud vault
Yes usually Stygian
turbid needle
Also disables said lightning rod when I'm looking for better duos
pulsar jewel
@turbid needle yeah that's my reasoning as well
silver summit
i take stygian because i mostly use cast for boiling blood
brazen nest
lol, i was using deadly flourish, random build
letting the game give me what it wants
hearty elbow
If I'm meming I'll take Infernal on Zeus boon starts for Lightning Rod.
silver summit
so i like being able to shoot at a new enemy without having to pick up the other ones
cloud vault
Deadly flourish good
turbid needle
Explosive
silver summit
neither
cloud vault
Both
turbid needle
Kinetic Launcher isn't bad. But Explosive Upper, when mega-boosted with demeter aspect charge, is nuts
silver summit
i have trouble upper dashing i like never do it
hearty elbow
You can do it smoothly out of a dash strike by pressing Special right afterwards
brazen nest
just got to change my grip a bit and i can do dash upper
silver summit
i usually don't even do uppercut with fists anyways-
i actually rebound special to middle mouse button to be able to do it
cloud vault
You could put dash on R1
brazen nest
it's demeter fists '-'
silver summit
i use kb
brazen nest
cursed
silver summit
no
pulsar jewel
i use kb as well
silver summit
i never used controller
why would i ever use something i literally have no idea how to use
brazen nest
i'm unable to do so
silver summit
that's more cursed
pulsar jewel
you can't side-dash strike on controller
silver summit
side dash strike?
oh like pointing/striking somewhere and dashing the opposite way?
pulsar jewel
dashing somewhere and attacking somewhere else
pulsar jewel
like against lernie dashing in place while attacking him
or circling enemies in general
silver summit
yeah i do that with lernie specifically ;p
pulsar jewel
asphodel is literally the only place where the kb is technically worse
because it can get tight with the lava, but usually it's okay
because of only 8 movement directions
also many controller people hate the spear, when it's okay if you side step dash strike with it all the time
on m+kb
worldly aspen
tbh i prefer controller but if you start with mnk the controller takes some getting used to
and i did start with mnk
cunning urchin
That goes both ways, naturally.
pulsar jewel
I feel like it's almost mandatory if you don't play with athena dash
Which admittedly i very often do
cunning urchin
The best spear player plays on pad, so it's probably not mandatory.
silver summit
i don't think the best player is really something to go off of
it influences but not something to base everything on that is
sometimes your skill just overshines the drawbacks you have
pulsar jewel
It won't prevent you from accomplishing basically anything in the game for sure
cunning urchin
I've done high heat spear just fine on pad, personally. Speedrunners mostly play on pad, too.
pulsar jewel
And I don't mean in-game objectives i mean most external objectives as well
silver summit
yeah
pulsar jewel
If they made a spear category maybe at some point the difference from that would surface, one way or another
silver summit
also honestly as far as i can tell most people don't use kb on gaming lately so it'd make sense for most people to be on pad
cunning urchin
You can just filter the leaderboard by weapon or aspect. There's no point in "making" a spear category.
spiral badge
You can move around fine with a stick in this game. Even complicated movements like dashing and attacking in opposite directions are pretty simple to pull off. Little slower than itd be with a separate mouse to lean on but the input buffer in this game is pretty forgiving
pulsar jewel
Few of the most competitive speedrunners will attemp the spear when it isn't the best choice
That's why it would need its own category, to get some incentive for playing it
cloud vault
Spear can go pretty fast with serrated point
cunning urchin
I don't think you know Hades speedrun meta much at all.
pulsar jewel
Which is difficult in this game because there's technically 24 different weapon choices, would cause a lot of splintering
somber drum
Spear can go pretty fast with serrated point
That's my PB right there!
spiral badge
Spear can go pretty fast with serrated point
Flurry Jab would like to know your location
pulsar jewel
https://www.speedrun.com/hades ctrl-f eris for yourself
the only evidence i need is that eris is the crushing favorite, which is my point
spear won't have the tightest competition on kb vs controller if it's not popular
cunning urchin
...
pulsar jewel
... yourself
turbid needle
You should take this suggestion to the speedrunning discord. They're (I think) the people who take care of the Hades portion of speedrun.com, if you want to make distinct speedrunning categories that's the place to start.
pulsar jewel
i think you misunderstand me a bit, i'm not advocating change
cloud vault
Eris is definitely a favorite in the fastest Spear category
Oh wait. It is not a Spear.
Hmmmmm
spiral badge
Eris spear best spear
pulsar jewel
just commenting on the way things are, the message between the lines was that it's difficult to deduce much from the top spear users about how things are when spears aren't competitive, meaning when you take a non-biased sample of tryhard speedrunners, they won't use the spear
spiral badge
Way better than stinky Achilles spear
pulsar jewel
@cloud vault are you slow or a child?
cloud vault
In that case nothing is competitive because Eris is faster than everything on heat 0
turbid needle
That's unnecessary, man, c'mon.
cloud vault
Oh, okay. That's enough for me. Bye.
pulsar jewel
@turbid needle it wasn't his first comment like that
he's been doing it all evening
spiral badge
No no, let him tie the noose just a liiiiittle tighter
pulsar jewel
go for it
i don't particularly need your comments, they've added little value this evening
turbid needle
To get back on topic, this is still a conversation that you should take to the speedrunning discord.
There's a lot of speedrunners who frequent here for the larger population size, but the meat and potatoes will be there.
pulsar jewel
@turbid needle as i said i'm not advocating for change, i was just making a point that just because i assume ragolar uses controller that you can't use this as an argument of controllers being better
because there doesn't exist a playing field of non-biased tryhard speedrunners who would give him competition in the category he is running
because spears aren't on average viable in that category where they are running
turbid needle
It's still a very speedrunning-oriented discussion that is largely beyond the realm of what happens on the main Hades discord.
pulsar jewel
ie. i was arguing against a statement earlier without really caring about how they do their speedrunning
correct
ah sorry, i didn't get what you were saying
you were politely telling me to shut up, message received
turbid needle
Trying to help you find a place where you can pursue this topic more fruitfully, man.
naive tusk
Please remember this server's rule #1 "Be kind." There will be different ideas and opinions but it is imperative that we keep discussions in an educated manner. Tones are hard to discern in written language so bear that in mind while engaging with other members 
static karma
So on a tangential note what makes jolted and ruptured worth taking outside of PS? I’m not sure if I should be taking jolted and razor shoals or not with FF
wet ferry
What is the world record ?
static karma
I don’t notice whether it’s doing anything or not
pulsar jewel
@static karma probably not much, it's some added damage but i think by design it's not much added damage
turbid needle
Jolted scales really quickly with both rarity and Poms.
somber drum
So on a tangential note what makes jolted and ruptured worth taking outside of P...
Well if you are desperately clinging to life in the last two boss fights Jolted and ruptured will be your main damage dealers as you run around making furtive pot shots.
fervent elbow
If jolted is on your way, take it
turbid needle
Rupture is the highest damaging DoT with a decent Knockback.
gusty rapids
jolted is good damage
static karma
Yeah I meant just taking it when seeing it not rolling for it
gusty rapids
shoals is kind of weird, its the highest DoT but sometimes i just dont feel it doing anything
cunning urchin
So on a tangential note what makes jolted and ruptured worth taking outside of P...
Jolted has ridiculous pom scaling and beats Lightning Strike for DPS on Malphon a whole lot of the time. Shouldn't be too different for Exagryph.
silver summit
jolted with cold fusion hits way too much on fast attacking enemies right?
gusty rapids
jolted is REALLY good on builds that shoot lightning very quickly
aka zeus on attack for fists/rail
brazen nest
for hades spear i want spin hammers and what else?
gusty rapids
or flurry jab spear
turbid needle
Tag Theseus in his stupid go-kart once and he'll do 99% of the work getting out of it.
Either Explosive Launcher or Serrated Point.
static karma
Serrated Point is good if you can handle the reduced dash range
Also exploding launcher
I had serrated point and exploding launcher for hades spear 32
turbid needle
I've heard Charged/Exploding Launcher on Hades is the god-tier build.
static karma
Serrated point nearly killed me though
turbid needle
Yeah, if you don't have Greatest Reflex or Hyper Sprint Serrated Point can be super dangerous.
turbid needle
Oh dang.
pulsar jewel
I feel like Greatest Reflex isn't enough to offset it, unless it's high quality
Hyper sprint usually is enough for me though as said
turbid needle
I'll take Common HS over GR, but 3 dashes is enough. I've run Serrated Point enough to be confident in saying that.
pulsar jewel
My problem with greatest reflex with serrated point is it nerfs your displacement speed a lot when using dashes in general
turbid needle
It only takes a little adjusting.
pulsar jewel
I guess it depends on your approach, if you just use the dash iframes then it's okay i guess, i like to be able to exit a situation
somber drum
I find I need the reduced displacement speed to catch my breath between the adrenaline pumping hyper shredding that goes on in every encounter with serrated edge
I'm not ashamed to say it's my favorite hammer.
pulsar jewel
like against hades i'm not expert enough to stay in melee all the time and dodge every attack, on some attacks i try to dodge the whole aoe, serrated blade basically means you cannot do that because your displacement speed is reduced no matter how many dashes you have
hyper sprint on the other hand almost entirely offsets the downside, you have regular displacement speed
turbid needle
I should get the build mod and really test it with Guan Yu, 'cause that 40 base damage is spicy.
Guess you should get good, then.
pulsar jewel
i passively attempt that but i'm also realistic about my current capabilities and pick stuff based on that
anyways the point is if you have Serrated Point you will be slower no matter how many dashes you have, vs. not having it
only hyper sprint allows you to be again faster than regular
somber drum
But if you have the achilles spear you can use that for traversal
brazen nest
i'll keep an eye for explosive launcher
pulsar jewel
@somber drum that's true
does anyone know actually if the game prioritizes jolt and similar effects if you don't have PS?
Or do you always get that prioritization effect
rich geyser
Does serrated edge hit once or three times for the purposes of Zeus?
rich geyser
Looks like Zeus can get in two hits with it
jovial fulcrum
I'd look for a stronger attack after picking up Serrated Point.
Zoos is more suited to Flurry Jab than Serrated Point
Serrated is good either way though
turbid needle
Or do you always get that prioritization effect
You always get said prioritization effect
Nice for Hunter's Mark and Jolted
opal vortex
https://imgur.com/0LXoefC I wanted to try stacking hangover using the aspect of eris and ended up with this. lol
silver summit
Oh yeah hunting is just good I can't blame ya
opal vortex
The 5 rocket launcher thing was pretty funny/good too
Only had 1 dash (ruthless reflex) and no deflect and still won.
cunning urchin
Cluster Rockets is the best hammer combo you can get on Eris.
opal vortex
Btw hunting blades really are great. I put them down on Theseus while fighting the bull and Theseus died faster.
patent raven
I’ve gotta try Cluster Rockets.
short kite
patent raven
Anyone else having trouble posting their challenge completion? Mine won’t even load the page.
I’ll try on a computer in the morning. Maybe that’s it.
hearty elbow
Deadly Strike + Imagination. Depends on preference, but I like Drunken Flourish the most on your special. Zeus + Static Discharge, Ares, Demeter, Aphro for Heart Rend all work though.
brazen nest
zeus on special can make it hit super hard
but splitting headache does a lot of good
man, i'm so mad, i messed up and bought the anvil, it jacked up my build that was shaping to be a PB sub 15
it just changed twin shot for triple shot, but i'm bad and can't use triple shot properly
ugh
then i died
cause forced overtime hades is hard
hearty elbow
Don't get me wrong, it's all just a decoration on your primary attack. That should always be the majority of your damage.
brazen nest
yeah, big boy dmg from the attack
i'm getting the hang of it, i'm pretty confident with td3 with rama, it's just hades that is constantly giving me trouble, i get jittery and end up choking
hearty elbow
If you're having issues with FO2 Dad then consider Frost Flourish
brazen nest
it was FO1 '-'
hearty elbow
Same concept :3
brazen nest
it's mostly the minions that mess up my rythm
rhythm*
i'll keep going with drunken flourish for a while (i need to master dyo keepsake)
opal vortex
https://imgur.com/DTfVpoC Did I do this right with aspect of nemesis?
hearty elbow
Lol, well, you got the clear :3 But typically you want Curse of Agony on your attack so you can autoproc ME with Divine Dash
opal vortex
I had to go into boss chambers in styx just to get ME as is... I just didn't get the boons offered to me in the right order
I was kind of worried I'd end up with no boon on my attack if I didn't take something toward the end
hearty elbow
Lol, yeah, if you swapped Attack/Special you'd have basically the perfect ME Nemesis build, minus Impending Doom
opal vortex
my special was pretty beefy. +20-30% attack with wider area and +30% speed from hermes
ok cool at least I got close 🙂
cunning urchin
man, i'm so mad, i messed up and bought the anvil, it jacked up my build that wa...
For what it's worth, sub 15 is less a matter of your build than just player skill. You'll definitely get there if you just keep working at it.
opal vortex
I never use to think the boon that fills you up to 50% of your HP at the end of the encounter was any good...but it really saved me a lot of HP in styx I think
I'm just working my way up slowly at this point. Taking whatever weapon has dark thirst and then ticking up the heat just enough for the next bounty
oh you were talking to someone else. lol
spiral badge
https://imgur.com/DTfVpoC Did I do this right with aspect of nemesis?
This victory screen is taskfailedsuccessfully.jpg ❤️
Great job on the clear though. Just keep swimming! You’re just starting to explore what real power in this game looks like, eventually it’ll all be second nature!
opal vortex
lmfao!
umbral surge
is speedrun rama faster than chiron?
and how do you play it efficiently? currently trying all aspects of bow, the easiest run for me is still chiron (and fastest)
limber cloak
if you're trying to speedrun, hera and zag bow are the fastest
Rama comes in 3rd, out of the bow aspects
Chiron comes in last, the slow special is very hard to get going fast
Its a safe and easy aspect, but not a fast one
umbral surge
I tried Zag yesterday, was not my PB
i end up doing a dash build on Poseidon with Chiron as it give me the fastest kills haha xD
i keep getting 13 minutes, what's the best boons to do Hera? (never tried it)
and what are the best mirror choices for it
limber cloak
Aphro cast with infernal soul
And arty attack, preferably you want heartrend but its not necessary
You also want quick reload from hermes
For zag bow, you wanna go with arty attack and aphro dash, and get heartrend
Twin shot and triple shot are best hammers, other attack hammers are decent too with zag bow
turbid needle
Triple Shot isn't perfect with Zag, Twin is generally superior given how hard it is to land three shots. Rama makes it work very well due to the wide hitbox.
barren eagle
damn turns out achilles with a bunch of blade rift boons is OP
you can get like 1-2k DPS
turbid needle
Wait until you get a highly Pom'd Glacial Glare with Crystal Clarity.
barren eagle
that sounds wacky
turbid needle
I think between Glacial Glare and multiple Casts, I had 9 on the field at one point.
magic rivet
Man, the last time I use Crystal Clarity, I skipped the Cerberus summon on EM4
turbid needle
I think a fully kitted Crystal Beam run may be stronger than Hunting Blades, which is a terrifying thought.
bronze sorrel
Lasertime!
umbral surge
a bit bored with Arthur sword, what other ones do you guys use?
valid dagger
a bit bored with Arthur sword, what other ones do you guys use?
I play Poseidon often
umbral surge
is the poseidon way just cast + special?
turbid needle
Everyone except Demeter, Ares, and Dionysus.
Poseidon/Demeter and Poseidon/Ares Duos will disable Poseidon's Cast from lodging.
sweet hornet
tried hera a second time, much better luck and result with build this time https://imgur.com/a/gPKLV8Q
valid dagger
I hate that thing xD
vale pecan
is this good for finale boss https://imgur.com/a/jhFLdwC
orchid folio
button mash time
coral cave
thats just how you play fists anyways
umbral surge
Shield of Beowulf is the one where your special is stronger than usual right
stuck basalt
no
vale pecan
a lot of buttons to manage
i jsut cas thold q and dash ifi need to
vale pecan
i just cast hold q and dash to dodge
umbral surge
i just got hammer: is breaching rush, dread flight, or empowing flight better then for Beowulf
umbral surge
and I jsut noticed i took the wrong cast, the dense fog is a bit useless
stuck basalt
lol
umbral surge
biome? I'm just doing heat runs to be able to reach 20 heats
valid dagger
They mean how far are you in the run I think
vale pecan
englfing vortng vortex and epic black emtal op with cast blade thingy
umbral surge
literally just started tartarus
vale pecan
oh first reward hammer nice
umbral surge
not a shield player so just want to get some tips
valid dagger
i just got hammer: is breaching rush, dread flight, or empowing flight better th...
If you're doing a Cast run then Breaching rush is the better bet, will help you break armor more reliably, if you're doing a Special run then Dread Flight is the only useful one there, Empowering Flight is kinda meh to me, I dont usually pick that often since with Beo you either Special or focus on Cast and rush, so getting that is another button to manage so you get the boost out of it, usually not my style.
valid prism
Probably poseidon cast, because you have then half of the conditions to get the mirage shot duo
umbral surge
mirage shot is a combo between who adn who again
umbral surge
the one boon where cast can go to me automatically, is that a Hermes legendary?
valid prism
Dio cast is good but because of its Cooldown it's better to have stygian blood instead of infernal
valid dagger
the one boon where cast can go to me automatically, is that a Hermes legendary?
Yes thats Hermes Legendary
magic rivet
Does Rama with triple shot stack at point blank?
I somehow got 1440 damage without critting
valid prism
Yes, that's one of the optimized ways to play Rama with huge DPS
magic rivet
Nice
chrome girder
Wait
chrome girder
Yes, that's one of the optimized ways to play Rama with huge DPS
Is Rama the best weapon?
umbral surge
for rama, is your main DPS on the attack or the special? still confused for this one
silver summit
special then attack
valid prism
Rama is bad if we talk about speed
silver summit
special deals really weak damage but makes the attack stronger (works like a secondary boiling blood basically, +50% damage on the same target)
valid prism
Rama is good if we talk about high heat
chrome girder
So rama is flexible
umbral surge
ah okay, so spray special then use attack
chrome girder
You don’t really aim for a specific build?
magic rivet
Zeus on the special works well
chrome girder
Rama attack is slow
I just unlocked it
I don’t know if I should grind up to heat 20 with fist
valid prism
Rama works with dps build like Artemis/Aphro on the atk, but if you have the good hammers it's completely possible to clear the game with shackle only
chrome girder
Or start diversifying into other weapons
umbral surge
which hammers is good for Rama?
silver summit
I don’t know if I should grind up to heat 20 with fist
i'm currently at heat 18 with fists but then i decided to use chiron to jump from heat 3 to heat 32 so really, you can do BOTH climbing with fists AND other weapons
that kinda makes it more fun tbh
magic rivet
which hammers is good for Rama?
Anything that boosts your attack I think
chrome girder
Almost all the bows are good
chrome girder
Why not?
magic rivet
Explosive shot is for fun
chrome girder
Oh on Rama
magic rivet
Not for being good
valid dagger
Twin shot Perfect Shot Triple shot Point Blank are nice ones
silver summit
yeah but not for utility
valid prism
On Rama the favorites are probably twin shot, triple shot, the one with faster charge, and the one with more damages on close foes
umbral surge
is it normal if I think Chiron is way better than Rama?
valid dagger
I would say yes
silver summit
yeah it's normal
but it's like, to your own playstyle
there is no "best" weapon or whatever
for you, chiron is easier and better to use, for others it's different i guess
that's why i think this game is so good, almost everything is viable
valid prism
If you spend equal time on both aspects, Chiron's mechanic is easier to learn than Rama at the beginning, and later, if you understand Rama, its DPS is better than Chiron
daring mango
I just suck at spear unless its an achilles cast build ;-;
silver summit
i never play spear unless it's guan yu i'm just that bad kek
valid dagger
After you rush you get a dmg boost
daring mango
Ive been trying to beat FO EM4 hades 5 times with hades spear
Always die at hades fight
valid dagger
That also applies to casting
valid prism
@silver summit the idea of best weapons/aspects is around 50 heat and higher, mostly because of the pact (tight deadline 3 for an exemple)
silver summit
yeah i'm talking in general
valid prism
Chiron is like Hestia: strong ability to damage on 1v1, but when you face a group of foes, you duel them one by one
silver summit
chiron can still damage to enemies around if you're bad at aiming, which i sometimes use when i panic i guess
valid prism
Rama shines when it comes to face groups
silver summit
Rama kinda shines on everything except if the enemy is fast and you can't load your attack in time
it's just hard to use i guess?
chrome girder
Hey
If I have something like merciful end
Can I swap out the special
Or will that mess up the duo boon?
silver summit
i think you can but probably wait for someone that knows better-
valid prism
Duo boon won't disappear unless you toss it
But your special is replacable if without it you still can apply doom and deflect effets to use ME
Not sure if it's a good idea, depending of your build
What's your situation/context?
silver summit
i usually would go for divine dash to activate ME because i can attack while dashing
magic rivet
Depends on your weapon
chrome girder
What's your situation/context?
Fists
magic rivet
Yeah get the dash
chrome girder
i usually would go for divine dash to activate ME because i can attack while das...
Yeah that’s what I do
I get divine dash
Hold down the mouse
silver summit
yeah
chrome girder
And space bar
magic rivet
You can sell the special once you have dash and ME
silver summit
i tried it (doom attack/divine dash) but lost to hades i guess i didn't dash enough
chrome girder
Lol it’s so easy
silver summit
for me, i use Demeter Attack
magic rivet
Dash striking is the key thing
chrome girder
That’s valid I guess
magic rivet
ME has very high dps
silver summit
Demeter or Aphro (i usually take demeter for chill), Chaos attack% and the rest
silver summit
oh yeah critting on doom is great
i guess i should try it again sometime
i should retry heat 32 with fists
chrome girder
i should retry heat 32 with fists
Probably not that good up there
silver summit
yeah that's why i wanna try it
chrome girder
You take a lot of damage with fists
silver summit
because nobody will
magic rivet
32 heat HL5 FO2 LC4 on fists
silver summit
i do uh
EM4
FO2
Damage Control 2
...no hard labor because i'm a coward lol
or Lasting Consequences
but i still got to hades and died to phase 2 so that was cool
i usually pump up my dodge%
so maybe i should take hard labor? dunno
magic rivet
Huh
Usually people take more Hard labor than forced overtime
Easier to dodge an attack that'll take away a lot of your health than it is to dodge many attacks at the same time
silver summit
FO2 is fast
i like fast
it gives me ecstasy and makes me go fast too
i don't know how to explain it but the game going fast makes me feel like going faster too, you know, matching it
so i don't suffer much from it
it makes me feel good
valid prism
Sounds fine, but it's probably a harder pact to beat
silver summit
yeah i suppose that is true
but i'm here to have fun anyways
i don't really get annoyed when i die in a good run
silver summit
i don't think i really suffer though
daring mango
I gave up on using hades spear and just used guan yu and it worked
wise sky
Hi could someone explain Athena’s and Ares’ duo to me
Do the deflect attacks apply doom or does it cause the doom to pop
daring mango
It causes the doom to pop
wise sky
Ah dang
daring mango
Dont worry its like.... The most OP duo boon out there
wise sky
Trying a Doomfist run with the Last aspect
daring mango
Athena dash can pop the dooms
So you can attack for doom and anthena dash for insta doom damage
daring mango
Just remember that athena dash is not part of the requirement to be able to get the duo boon
cloud vault
Dash strikes just autopop it with that combo
patent raven
Anyone have links to the previous monthly challenges? I just did March, and had fun with it. Curious to do the others.
silver summit
pins
at least i think
i can find like 3 in pins idk where others are i just realized
strange lark
Anyone have links to the previous monthly challenges? I just did March, and had ...
eris rail, hazard bomb, artemis special, lasting consequences 4
patent raven
You’re right. Sorry.
silver summit
that's not the question, cat
strange lark
i read half the sentence again
patent raven
And yes, it’s on the other pins. I just read the first one.
The February one is, anyway. Not much before that.
valid prism
Datas are normally on the same google sheet
So if you find it from one of the pinned messages, you find them all
patent raven
I see it now. The old challenges are on separate tabs.
valid prism
Yep
patent raven
The Zagreus is Coming to Town one looks tasty.
cunning urchin
@patent raven congratulations, and good luck! 
wise sky
Just remember that athena dash is not part of the requirement to be able to get ...
I almost forgot lmao
Run went well
Big combos and Big damage
simple aurora
Ok new fav build is the bow that loads your cast
Jesus..its like having a shot gun
spiral badge
Did you try loading the shotgun cast boon into it 👀
heady peak
Does the boiling point boon (+% god gauge from taking damage) scale with the damage taken prior or post damage reduction?
What i mean is, does it make sense to take boiling point on a tank build with lots of damage reduction effects?
spiral badge
I don’t know the direct answer for your questions, but I’ll share a small secret with you: almost all boons related to call generation except proud bearing and smoldering air don’t really do much
turbid needle
I don't know about with damage reduction, but even with 0 Hard Labor Boiling Point is very strong.
spiral badge
The #1 correlating factor to how fast a call gets generated in this game is rate of fire. How much damage you deal and take is greatly overshadowed by how fast you can hit an enemy when it comes to generating call bar
turbid needle
Clouded Judgement is a small but noticeable boost. Artemis' boon is pure filler.
Taking damage generates way more call per hit than when Zag hits an enemy.
Single hits can turn into 25% charges with Boiling Point.
spiral badge
Which makes certain things and boons that have nothing to do with call generation much better at actually increasing call than most call dedicated boons, ironically
Boiling point may be pretty good, I’ll put it in there too. I haven’t played with it much, but posiedon tends to have stealthily strong boons so it wouldn’t surprise me
But things like fists of malphon, Ares dash and Support fire from Artemis are huge for making your meter consistently recharge much faster. In my experience, nothing trumps being able to lay out a greater volume of fire for making the call bar go brrrr
heady peak
Thanks for sharing your knowledge. I do remember gaining a ton of god gauge from having the final boss whack me, with boiling point
serene zealot
What would y'all recommend for Hades spear hammer/boons wise?
turbid needle
Exploding Launcher, Charged Skewer (with EL), Quick/Massive Spin, if you can't get those Flaring Spin is pretty good.
Well, it's not great, but it does guarantee you get your spins off.
silver summit
my friend is trying to do spear 32 heat, he mostly uses hades spear, would that work out..?
turbid needle
Yeah.
silver summit
okay
turbid needle
It had the Heat record (well over 40) at one point.
silver summit
@idle surge ^
turbid needle
Hades has built-in Massive Spin, and putting Massive Spin on top of that makes it comically large.
turbid needle
Oh, I forgot Serrated Point.
It's definitely a high skill option, that shortened Dash is rough at first blush, but it and Exploding Launcher are the two main Hades DPS options.
silver summit
well he does use serrated often
cunning urchin
Not for the DPS, but for the safety.
silver summit
so i guess he has that practice part
cunning urchin
Doesn't necessarily transfer to 32, though, depending on pacts.
But he'll be at least used to the Dash distance.
silver summit
hm yeah that would make sense
surreal wasp
robust anchor
i like that hammer
static karma
my friend is trying to do spear 32 heat, he mostly uses hades spear, would that ...
I got my 32 heat spear clear with Hades spear
The best weapons for 32 are the ones you’re the most comfortable with and have the most fun with
At least for me having good hammers (Serrated Point and Exploding Launcher in my winning run) helped, spear is boosted a lot by hammers
I did have Hyper Sprint + Rush Delivery for Hades though since I got Rush Delivery from the styx shop
Hyper Sprint can mitigate the downside of Serrated Point a bit
gusty rapids
ye hyper sprint mitigates serrated a lot
dense basin
Lately I'm trying to do Eris runs when I have Zeus legendary boon, 5 rockets, aphrodyte dash for arte-aphro duo, but no luck so far 
gusty rapids
basically agree that for 32 just take whatever you enjoy / are comfortable with
of course some weapons will deal with heat a bit better than others but at 32 its not big enough of a deal that it outweighs being comfortable with what you're playing
static karma
Yeah like Zag bow is considered worse than Rama for heat but I cleared 32 with zag bow while I struggled with Rama a lot
32 is high heat but not so high the game is heavily warped towards particular weapons
Although I find ranged weapons do better than melee, and I had to adjust my fists 32 pact to avoid EM3
silver summit
struggling with zag fists for 32, did chiron 32 on 2nd attempt (never used chiron before)
gusty rapids
yeah chiron is a very safe aspect and zag fists, by virtue of being fists, is not safe lmao
static karma
I used dem fists but yeah fists are a very hard 32
I’d recommend not doing EM3
Especially if combined with FO2
static karma
I don’t use EM4 in my 32 pacts
silver summit
i'm fairly used to em4, just gotta get used to the speed of fo2em4 now
aka i need greatest reflex hermes for the love of god give me the god damn dash boon
static karma
I only beat FO2 EM4 once and that was with no other heat and with Hestia
I used all my death defiances on that fight
silver summit
i beat chiron 32 with it
first try i got a really good run but died to hades phase 2 part 2, then i tried replicating that run (successfully) with keepsakes and won by just using what i learnt from my first death: "i have ranged so just stay the fork away from me dad"
clever barn
fun build with chaos shield? (other than ares special)
silver summit
chaos shield?
clever barn
yes sorry
silver summit
mm i forgot sorry- maybe stuff that applies a lot of things like chill or hungover? like you bull rush into an enemy and throw while inside so all hit them?
the only thing i know that works with chaos is explosive return, apparently every shield explodes, but i never used it myself sorry
clever barn
np
turbid needle
ultimate cast build obtained
Weaken on attack (using chiron bow with demeter special), weakened foes take extra damage, Demeter laser cast, inflict chill and longer duration on cast, 10 chill stacks explode on target, cast benefits from backstab bonuses, ability deflect (dash) causes exposed, shadow presence maxed and privileged status maxed
also was using the triple cast
just got behind hades and plopped all three down and ran the opposite way and boom
the casts were doing more damage than i was
no dd needed for the entire run, i got pretty lucky
dusky drum
man that sounds chunky but like ive seen a build just take dad to imperv immediatley
casts are stupid strong if built right
brittle mortar
hmm I like that. I'll try that
I should use demeter more often anyway
its a good build because even if you dont get everything, it's still good. aphro attack is good even if you dont get weakened foes take more damage ect
mighty obsidian
Anyone know what property hunter's dash has on bow?
ok nvm ik now
It lets you do power shot faster
mighty obsidian
Ah alright
bronze sorrel
Worth note also, dash attack on bow reduces base damage a tad.
Still generally worth though
dusky drum
yea dash attack powershot is 50, standing is 70
still just dash attacking has a better dps
and thats why arte dash is nice on it
free damage
bronze sorrel
Unless you're getting ready to hit a phased boss with shield you're pretty much always dashing.
gray edge
what is the strategy to not die over and over when using guan yus spear?
at first i compared it to the sword + cursed strike but the healing from this attack is miniscule compared to the sword
bronze sorrel
At low heat, usually just throwing special, higher heat, you have to learn the guan yu dance
gray edge
still at very low heat, so i got time to get accustomed ^^
so early on its basically special spam?
dusky drum
yeaa
spin is a solid damage output but slow
but if you can charged skewer + arte special is insane
so is quick spin with like athena attack
dont use the base attack combo
its garbage
gray edge
but if you can charged skewer + arte special is insane
oh neat
gray edge
its garbage
oh im surprised
the damage felt very good
reminded me of world splitter on the sword
gray edge
but cool, i always avoided special builds since none of the specials looked that enticing to play around
time to play one ^^
dusky drum
spin wont be used much besides healing or until you get quick spin
ahh yea special builds are amazing with the right setup and aspect
like chiron bow
gray edge
quick spin is from hammer i suppose 🙂
gray edge
like chiron bow
i already saw the potential but i assume this one also sucks at lvl1?
dusky drum
quick spin is from hammer i suppose 🙂
yep
dusky drum
i already saw the potential but i assume this one also sucks at lvl1?
yeaaa
it only gets good at around lvl 3
bitter radish
hey, i have about 50 clears in the game so far so im not that new to it... BUT, only 3 of them were with the rail, i cant figure it out! any tips for me or good strats for it?
jovial fulcrum
Use aspect of Eris. It's the easiest to use, just stand inside of your bomb and do big damage regardless of the rest of your build
bitter radish
and... how to get to the top with lucifers? it never seem to do any damage
rich dust
Is your lucifer aspect high level?
I tried it once at level 1-2 and it seems sort of garbage when low
Anyways with the rail its generally easier to build a good powerful special than attack tbh
magic rivet
Also, learn when to reload
Reloading when you only have 1 or two bullets lefts is usually faster than waiting for the gun to auto reload after you use up all the ammo
static karma
Level up Hestia to max and put Aphrodite or Artemis attack on it
Reload after every shot
Empowered shot has way more range than regular shot too
For Eris and I guess Zag rail too zeus attack works
daring mango
when you use lucifer, zeus and dio are generally better for the attack boon
or you can use poseidon do a supersoaker run
stuck basalt
imo hestia is the literal easiest aspect in the game
dash into a safe position, reload, attack
ricochet fire or piercing fire are the best hammers
i would recommend either going arty or aphro for attack boon
take fiery presence and nyx’s keepsake if you’re not forcing a god
you can oneshot most enemies up until elysium
and even then it’s only 3 or so
eternal osprey
hey, i have about 50 clears in the game so far so im not that new to it... BUT, ...
hestia or eris, depending on the build. lucifer can be good, but not as reliably as hestia/eris. zag sucks IMO I never use it. some others don't think so (as much) but when it comes to the rail, just look for the rocket bomb hammer. best rail hammer. hopefully you can also find the 3x or 5x special hammer too, and then it doesn't matter which aspect you choose
if you do use lucifer though, try for zeus attack, it pairs well
honest wing
zeus attack pairs well with both lucifer and eris
eternal osprey
any rail really
eternal osprey
what is the strategy to not die over and over when using guan yus spear?
at firs...
one way to go is to use aphro keepsake first, try for as rare of a boon as you can get that gives bonus +% when picking up hearts
I can't remember what it's called
gray edge
oh thats an idea
eternal osprey
but getting that very quickly can make guan yu a bit more manageable
gray edge
i think its life affirmation?
gray edge
i thought about stacking hearts but i still feel bad with the healing being so unreliable
eternal osprey
unless I am fighting hades on no heat, it sucks to fight him with such low health
gray edge
ill just hope ill run into an early quick spin next time ^^
got 2 hammers last run but no quick spin
eternal osprey
I never find the spin to be enough heals
gray edge
unless I am fighting hades on no heat, it sucks to fight him with such low healt...
yeah
my winning builds have a stupid amount of damage mitigation
every other build dies to his first 80+ dmg hit in the second phase lol
eternal osprey
you know when you get that run where... whoa... what did I do?? this is so easy... I just had one of those. zeus shield w/ arty and... I can't remember but my god it was easy
gray edge
when i first picked up calls, they seemed so weak that i always passed them up lol
but oh boy
athena, aphrodite and artemis calls are instant win buttons
eternal osprey
I do the four boss booster heat, mid boss, and 20% atk speed by default to give 15 heat and access all the doors
gray edge
ah okay, rn im just grinding the low heats bc i want my rewards
eternal osprey
athena call is the best IMO. most people say poseidon, but it just doesn't last nearly as long
gray edge
played with poseidons call once
felt weaker and very clunky
but i dont really like any of poseidons boons
eternal osprey
poseidon is more damage
gray edge
isnt it like 400 on impact?
eternal osprey
but when fighting hades, especially when you have to kill him 3x, taking less damage is more important than dealing out more damage
um yeah like 4-500
you don't like poseidon?
gray edge
but when fighting hades, especially when you have to kill him 3x, taking less da...
yeah i noticed that too
doesnt charm effects also mitigate all damage from bosses?
eternal osprey
yeah for like a split second
gray edge
bc i had charm chance on my dash in one run and hades didnt do a thing to me
i think i also got quad dash tho
and aphros call too so i had pretty good uptime
gray edge
you don't like poseidon?
not at al 😂
eternal osprey
aphro call charms for a little longer
gray edge
if im in need i just pick up his free stuff boon or hydraulic might and call it a day
but i often just reroll the room
eternal osprey
I think poseidon is all-round/on-average the best god in the game.
cloud vault
Wave Pounding is pretty ridiculous when you have some core boons from Pos
eternal osprey
the pushback is always useful on non-bosses and then there is ^
wave pounding. and also his dash is the best. better than athena for a lot of builds
human cannonball dash
gray edge
hmm i dont like picking knockback effects on melee builds but thats engraved onto my mindset from other games lul
eternal osprey
it needs to have a hermes multidash though to really shine
it works well in hades I think
gray edge
i always forget that hades rewards you for knocking enemies into things
eternal osprey
still the only 32 heat I have cleared (though I stopped trying for more after the first) was with zag fists, poseidon dash, athena attack
I got a bit lucky with the boons but it was... easy... I just button mashed dash and attack and he was practically invincible the whole time
gray edge
athena attack is pure bliss
had it ona very fun sword run
literally a baseball build 😛
eternal osprey
with zag fists, and especially with hermes attack speed... it is like a force field in front of you
zag or demeter
fists
gray edge
i think i passed it up once because i was afraid that the lackof AoE drastically reduces the effectiveness
eternal osprey
I don't use the other two
eternal osprey
the chainshot fists or... hehe what is that... subzero? get over here!!!
those can be kinda fun too
was that subzero?
I can't remember
I think chiron is the strongest/easiest aspect in the game though
followed close behind by probably zeus/chaos
gray edge
oh i tried the chaos shield and yeah it feels like a great upgrade for the shield
but i hate playing the shield so much
eternal osprey
you gotta use the block/Bull Rush with the shield
gray edge
i always pick the weapon with the bonus loot buff, unless it lands on the shield
yeah i know
it worked fine
just wasnt very enjoyable
eternal osprey
you can block hades spin attack standing right next to him with a shield
I think his flaming skull thing he throws at you though... I feel like I've seen that penetrate the shield before
gray edge
what does burning soul even do?
eternal osprey
I agree, the shield is boring
eternal osprey
you know what I don't really know what it does
gotta be like a temporary damage increase. damage that you take
gray edge
ohh could be
eternal osprey
that's what I assume it is, cuz if I get 2-3 stacks of that, I usually start taking a ton of damage it seems like
worse than any other bad luck during the last fight though is when he spawns those little force field generator monsters
I hate those things
torn elk
Yeah it makes you more susceptible to damage
silver summit
it's called "boiling blood", same thing like you inflict on others
except instead of +50% damage it's +100% damage i think, not sure
but wait does boiling blood stack?
silver summit
worse than any other bad luck during the last fight though is when he spawns tho...
those skulls are his bloodstones, if they hit you, you get inflicted with boiling blood, if they hit a wall, or they time out and plop out of you (like your bloodstones on enemies) they explode after a while if you don't destroy them first
mystic ember
Hey what are good boon builds for the fists? Specifically aspect of demeter
silver summit
i guess stuff that makes special stronger, from chaos and daedalus, aphro on special for most damage? other than that i'm unsure sorry
valid prism
For demeter fists, simple build can be zeus atk + artemis special
cunning urchin
Heartbreak Flourish start > Lightning Strike + Zeus'Aid/Dionysus' Aid + Smoldering Air
valid prism
Sophisticated build is using merciful end with ares atk and athena special (then divine dash later)
cunning urchin
Heartbreak Flourish > Curse of Agony > Zeus' Aid + Smoldering Air
turbid needle
Is zues' aid really all that great?
turbid needle
I'm a big fan of hunter dash
cunning urchin
Hammers you want are Breaching Cross and one out of Explosive Upper or Kinetic Launcher.
Rolling Knuckle is nice, too, if you can't get those.
silver summit
idk but it has 2 extra dashes!!!! and also hold to dash!!!!!!!
also deals lots of damage
fierce bronze
silver summit
except dash strike
dash strike damage is really bad and that's sad
but i wanna try to clear the game with it some time, although i'm burnt out on it rn
fierce bronze
Ic
silver summit
icy
daring mango
Omg Im so dumb I just realized... I can just use abyssal blood to mitigate FO1 so I can hit hades more with slower weapons
That might not be the most efficient way of doing it but might be safer for me
turbid needle
gilga is kinda bad in high heat and also prob not good for speed
spiral badge
Imagine playing Gilgamesh and not Better Gilgamesh
This post brought to you by the Talos Heavy Knuckle gang
coral cave
here we go
spiral badge
Gilgamesh bad
honest wing
my PB is gilgamesh lmao
dense basin
I don't thnik Gilgamesh is bad, it's just glass canon gameplay