(I thought you were talking about the team)
#h1-builds-and-combat
obsidian kestrel
coral cave
Nah
cunning urchin
SK is the country code for Slovakia. You're right, that really did make less sense. 
coral cave
Sorry about that
cunning urchin
She is not the goddess of explaining who South Korean esports players are. You have your priorities, I understand. 
obsidian kestrel
I wonder how into esports Artemis would be.
coral cave
She'd be hitting those trickshots like they're nothing
coral cave
I'm thinking she'd be more of a COD pro
obsidian kestrel
Hanzo main meme here
coral cave
Don't you think she'd be a widow main
coral cave
Fair point
coral cave
Most of the female characters in overwatch are pretty sexualized
Shed probably go a male character based on what you've said
Probably a hanzo or mccree
obsidian kestrel
I think she'd aight with 76.
Maybe Ashe would be fine with her.
...
This might have drifted away from builds discussion
hybrid fractal
What's everyone's bow builds? it's still the only weapon i can't get my head around at all
turbid needle
depends on the bow
but basicially just put deadly strike or heartbreak strike on attack
artemis dash is actually rly good on it
rich dust
when tryharding i run rama
idle carbon
rama is so fun but I feel comfy with chiron cuz ez
rich dust
put zeus special and aphrodite / demeter /athena attack
preferably athena
get twin or triple shot for insane damage, bonus points for point blank or better power shot
hybrid fractal
[taking notes]
serene zealot
Are you running Zag bow or a different aspect?
spiral badge
There are basically two schools of bow fundies
Rama and not-rama
Both are similar, the only real difference is draw time
I would advise playing not-rama to pick up good bow habits
Hera is a great contender for learning, but my rec for learning good Bow form is Zag bow
Zag bow will most immediately and clearly provide you feedback as to when you are attacking correctly with bow or not
And you can transfer those skills to the other aspects thereafter
serene zealot
With Hera, your cast is your main source of damage, so you should start a build with a cast in mind.
Poseidon cast sound fun? Alright, try and go for sea storm and mirage shot if you see either Zeus or Artemis later.
You like crits a lot? Going heart rend with Aphrodite and Artemis would be a smart pick, either one on attack or cast can work tbh.
You want high burst damage? Dionysus cast is good at this, but keep in mind you need his duos with Zeus and Demeter to really shine.
Once you have a cast chosen and a build idea in mind, your attack should be something decent damage wise (Artemis, Aphrodite, Athena, Ares for doom) with the rest of your core builds going towards getting the duos you want.
turbid needle
aphro cast is ur best option on hera
serene zealot
It is more base damage yeah but it's not really affected by later boons like how some others are.
hybrid fractal
i love crits
turbid needle
zag bow gives you the most crit for your titan blood
hybrid fractal
i also love status effects
or
one status effect lmao
my current fave ranged strat is to just slap drunken strike on the zag rail and dakkadakkadakka my way to victory
(yes i know zag rail sucks but but shh)
serene zealot
Honestly, Chiron and Hera are great for PS
An easy mix of, for example, doom on attack and then weak on special/cast and boom
hybrid fractal
Thank you!
idle carbon
why does uc always ask for your core boons
I pick stupid boons just to sell them for uc but they never appear
HMMM
really makes you think
patent raven
My favourite thing to do lately is Demeter gloves, Ares attack (ideally with Dire Misfortune), Artemis special and Dio/Aphro dash.
With Privileged Status.
turbid needle
uc always has at least 1 core boon I think
and everything else is random
some non core boons also cant be sold
idle carbon
it asked for my attack, special and 1 legendary boon
good thing I had one reroll left that would be run ruiner
otherwise
turbid needle
So I went into a chaos gate and I’m doing a cast build so there are two boons one for 1+ cast and another for 40% cast damage which one is better since they both seem good but just wanted a second opinion
serene zealot
The extra cast will double your damage output (if you only have one cast rn) and is harder to get later on.
Extra cast damage can be gained via pomming your cast, a well item, or urge to kill from Ares (10% buff to attack, special, and cast), making it much easier to get.
I would personally go for the extra cast, unless you're using infernal soul, then the damage increase could possibly do more overall.
turbid needle
Yeah I have infernal soul on so I just may do cast damage
And thank you so much for the input!
spiral badge
I always wonder where the balance point between +cast damage and an extra cast is 👀
I guess it’d have to be 100+% which isnt realistic
limber cloak
number wise, extra cast always wins
unless its 100%+, as you said
but practically, if youre running infernal cast dmg of anything above like 40% is pretty decent
spiral badge
How do cast boosts interact with boons? Now that I think about this I grow more confused
From one lens I’m looking through, any boost above 33.3% across 3 casts should equate to ~100% of extra damage or one extra cast when using infernal
We’ll use infernal as a constraint for the purpose of the question to keep things neat
100 X 4 = 400
100 X 1.35 = 135
135 X 3 = 405
I’m a caveman, not a mathematician but thats what happens in my head?
also fudged the numbers for roundness but you get the drift
strange lark
From one lens I’m looking through, any boost above 33.3% across 3 casts should e...
lets say you have a 50 percent damage boost, 50 percent of 100 is 50, now add 50 to 100, 150 is the total damage from each cast
i also have no idea what your question was
spiral badge
Well I guess I'm trying to answer the larger question of where the tipping point is between an extra cast or cast boosts overall for chaos stuff
By your and my math anything above a 33% boost should be a damage increase over +1 cast? Unless I'm missing something
spiral badge
am I right in assuming a boost of 35% would be worth more total damage output than a single extra cast?
That’s the question I’m trying to ask in that math
spiral badge
IE, is anything north of 33% boost to damage going to automatically outpace an extra cast?
strange lark
so you are asking if you should take another cast or extra cast damage from chaos
spiral badge
on top of the ergonomic benefits of a smaller mag
In so many words yeah. I’m just musing on which might be better. It’s a question I ask myself a lot. The math seems obvious but years of games have made me paranoid of seeing ghosts, so I like to be sure
plain prairie
in just terms of pure damage yea but cast effects also play into overall effectiveness
spiral badge
that’s the other thing I don’t understand fully
This is full tinfoil-hat territory, but are we absolutely sure that the damage scalar that chaos applies goes universally towards Cast_Damage_Total, or are the values of base cast damage and addtl damage from boons somehow separated behind the scenes, and therefore perhaps somehow acted on independently?
strange lark
i feel like extra cast= more damage
spiral badge
that’s the other thing that gnaws at the edge of my mind re: that question. Never trust game devs to do the obvious. They generally like to, but they’re sneaky little devils who do odd things for their own reasons all the time too
serene zealot
An extra cast is for sure extra damage, you know exactly how much it will do, while extra cast damage comes down to hoping it makes enough of a difference to feel.
strange lark
extra cast is 100% extra damage in the form of another cast, but extra cast damage is 150% for 3 casts
spiral badge
the reason I invest so much brainpower into it is because having fewer casts feels better from an ergonomic and DPS standpoint to me
Fewer time to exhaust the same total damage output etc
spiral badge
Larger mag isnt uniiiiiversally better. Being able to do the same damage in fewer bursts is powerful
serene zealot
It also depends on the cast, Ares and Demeter would probably get more from having more casts overall, whereas Aphrodite would probably prefer higher damage.
spiral badge
Tru
cunning urchin
@spiral badge @limber cloak @strange lark
([current bonus damage] + 1)/[current max ammo]
That sum is how much additional bonus damage will add as much damage as +1 ammo. That's not factoring in rate of fire or rate of ammo regeneration.
strange lark
nice
cunning urchin
Sec. I made an error, I think. I'll get back to you in a sec.
Yup.
Just needed the parantheses. There we go.
2*([current bonus damage] + 1)/[current max ammo]
This is for +2 ammo.
Not that you really have to choose between +2 ammo or bonus cast damage, I guess. Just added that for completion's sake since Fully Loaded gives +2.
honest wing
that's some solid maths
whereas I would just go, hey isn't another cast just double the damage
opal lodge
keep in mind this doesnt add in high confidence, family favorite, or other additives
cast stone is usually better for stygian soul
honest wing
def
opal lodge
infernal it can go either way but rarity can be a useful marker
honest wing
ah yes, rarity
I once had 4 casts with hunting blades achilles stygian soul and greater reload
I was not able to keep up
also why does it not give flurry cast with stygian soul it really should imo
turbid needle
I really did not expect you all to go this in depth from a question I had but it’s really cool that you all did!
halcyon lynx
What does eris do that makes it the fastest?
stone escarp
increases ALL damage by 75%
so when they pair it with lightnings it basically spits out what used to be small numbers but quickly, and turns it into medium numbers but quickly
halcyon lynx
I just got a 13 hestia run and I feel like there's no way I could get faster
stone escarp
same, ~13 Hestia is my PB
dense basin
Every source of damage does 75% more damage. Which makes Zeus boons for attack very powerfull. Get static discharge, boon for bouncing more between enemies and then roll legendary boon
stone escarp
it's so fun though
stone escarp
Every source of damage does 75% more damage. Which makes Zeus boons for attack v...
I love using Splitting Bolt fists
it's AWESOME
spiral badge
With a slower weapon
dense basin
Then you watch the world burn 
stone escarp
😊
honest wing
I love eris with artemis cluster rockets
so much damage
4-shotted hades em4 final phase
halcyon lynx
I'll try it when rail has darker thirst
halcyon lynx
4-shotted hades em4 final phase
WHAT?
dense basin
Oh yes, if you roll 2 hammers to got 5 rockets... it's so beautiful
honest wing
it's very beautiful
didn't even have to use my attack
I probably had the legendary and everything but it didn't matter
stone escarp
I love eris with artemis cluster rockets
ahem
for all my tf2 stans
Cluster Crockets
spiral badge
Please
Don't invoke that kind of senseless violence in this family oriented server
shudders
stone escarp
stone escarp
spiral badge
beggars bazooka but every shot crits
stone escarp
just imagine
my dear friend
I am a professional gamer girl™️
I have 3 simp Kritz Medics backing me up
I wait in front of Blue Spawn
There is an engineer with a dispenser
There is two scouts with boston bashers
I have a Beggar's Bazooka
I have Kritz on-demand
I am a living god
serene zealot
increases ALL damage by 75%
Wait, even casts?
serene zealot
Eris is now my favorite rail for that alone
cunning urchin
keep in mind this doesnt add in high confidence, family favorite, or other addit...
It does. That's what [current bonus damage] is. It doesn't factor in crits.
brazen nest
hello comrades, what are your thoughts about poseidon sword?
opal lodge
i see, my mistake
serene zealot
It's a cast weapon, so it's good lol
In all seriousness though, extra cast damage plus being able to get your casts back faster if you're running infernal soul is great.
serene zealot
Yep
brazen nest
getting a chaos extra stone and prometheus stone from the well would add further goodness
nice, i'm hyped to try it now
serene zealot
Artemis' legendary also gives you two extra casts if you can get it
brazen nest
theorycrafting it makes it seem like the most consistent sword
brazen nest
nemesis can be bonkers with double edge
opal lodge
since you dont need to rely on hammers
brazen nest
and arthur as fun as it is, i can't get complete hold of it
artemis legendary is kinda hard to get though
it needs exit wounds right?
although, does poseidon special activates it?
that would be hilarious
serene zealot
You need two of the following: Pressure Points, Exit Wounds, and Support Fire.
And yes, that works with EW
It's so good
dusky drum
yea the second you get exit wounds pos sword damage shoots up
especially since sometimes people can lodge like 9 casts into hades with stygian soul
serene zealot
I had 7 casts yesterday with Poseidon, exit wounds did as much damage as the casts did tbh
spiral badge
Pos is easily the most consistent sword for damage. Arthur play aside
spiral badge
Mirage shot alone makes it great
brazen nest
oh
spiral badge
Or hunting blades. Lord help them if you get hunting blades
brazen nest
i'm thinking i could be faster with flood shot
boom boom boom, special, repeat
might get lucky with some chaos
using the hourglass and buying stones from the well whenever possible
serene zealot
I'd go with Poseidon cast, since that opens up mirage shot, sea storm, lightning rod, and fully loaded if you can get Zeus and Artemis
spiral badge
Pos, Athena, Artemis and zeus are really going to shine out of the box with Poseidon sword
cunning urchin
Current speedrun meta for Poseidon Aspect is Phalanx Shot.
serene zealot
I assume with the Zeus duo?
brazen nest
phalanx, huh
spiral badge
Yeah Athena cast with zeus in the mix is also top tier
cunning urchin
I assume with the Zeus duo?
I'd assume so, but I haven't looked into it that deeply.
brazen nest
interesting
spiral badge
Yeah it's the zeus duo that makes Athena really elevate
brazen nest
whnever i get enought blood for it i'll go
serene zealot
Huh, might have to give that a try.
spiral badge
Her cast is A-tier as is
brazen nest
i tried demeter fist, didn't like it that much, though i did have to get rush kick to finish the fists quest
spiral badge
But having the room clear utility of zeus cast on top of that is a big friggin deal
spiral badge
Blessed be, for thou art Gud
serene zealot
GY isn't bad, you just can't get hit
serene zealot
Ikr
brazen nest
the special sound effect is also chef kiss
serene zealot
All the sound design is great tbh
brazen nest
bows perfect shot and GY special take the gold medal for me though
serene zealot
Divine dash plus something with more damage, easy
sweet hornet
does the zeus attack boon scale with triple dash strike spear hammer (3 lightning per dash strike)?
last crystal
Can you get both Ice Wine and Scintillating Feast on the same run?
honest wing
yea
manic willow
I now have all aspects, but not leveled most of them
Do have enough to level some
I need to use ares, what weapon aspect should I use?
spiral badge
Fists, spear, or bow, generally
As weird as it sounds, ares actually sits atop the pyramid for fist attack DPS. Even above zeus
And spear and bow let you put doom on special for nice fire-and-forget action
Doom goes great on zag shield too. Aphro attack, ares special + PrivStat = braindead button mashing build
manic willow
Okay tanks very much!
serene zealot
As weird as it sounds, ares actually sits atop the pyramid for fist attack DPS. ...
I assume via ME?
spiral badge
No weirdly they’re both just within inches of each other in raw, actual dps
Ares just does his somewhat awkwardly for a fast hitting weapon so it feels odd and perhaps there’s an ergonomic argument to be made about his damage being slightly less useful due to its slow-proc nature, but the math doesn’t lie. Ares and zeus rule the roost for fist attack output
Theoretically ares has Dire Misfortune which swings the needle way in his favor, but again the nature of how doom procs makes it a little odd and.... less than optimal? In certain situations with fists
Nya, idle question for the QoM, do you think the doom/zeus principle perchance extends to rail? Or does fist sit in an ROF sweet spot of some kind that makes that whole equation tick?
livid ginkgo
anyone recommend a build for beowulf?
cunning urchin
@livid ginkgo Infernal Soul, Passion Flare, get a lot of poms on it, get Zeus' Aid for Smoldering Air.
@spiral badge QoM?
spiral badge
The Queen of Malphon, of course
As much as I've seen ares talked about with fist attack, I've just thought about why I've never seen the same principle applied much to the other high rof weapon
livid ginkgo
@cunning urchin thanks
cunning urchin
Lightning Strike on Eris will kill most enemies within less than 1.1 seconds. Doom procs in 1.1 seconds.
spiral badge
Really is a crying shame talos' magnet isn't a global damage boost too
Be nice to have something to play with like that
Well that makes sense I guess, thank you.
cunning urchin
Most of the DPS for Demeter Aspect shouldn't come from your Attack boon itself, anyway. Your Special and other sources do most of your damage. I'd expect it to be somewhat similar for Eris.
Curse of Longing is not typically something you build for deliberately, more something that you pick up if you see it.
When starting with Lady Aphrodite boons, you'd be looking for Smoldering Air or Heart Rend primarily. When starting with Lord Ares for Doom, you'd look for Merciful End.
You could try that with Thunder Flourish + Heartbreak Strike instead and pick up either Zeus' Aid or another good call to unlock Smoldering Air from their pool.
Well, good thing with Smoldering Air is you can just mash the button. 
It's also a good way to practice being more mindful of having a Call and using it.
opal vortex
The bow is my last weapon I need a standard clear on...
Should I use aspect of Chiron even if it's only lvl 1?
opal vortex
That costs 2 blood cry
But I get 10 via the prophecy thing if I do it....
I typically use the perk that gives +dmg on enemies with your cast stuck in them
Does that work with Hera?
When I use Ares cast it doesn't get "stuck" in them
lime jolt
use aphro cast on hera
opal vortex
I don't really understand what that is suppose to do...
You shoot the cast into them. So what
Why not just cast it into them
pulsar jewel
Hey quick Q about divine dash. Does that dash increase melee iframes or is the primary benefit only for deflecting projectiles?
Like my intuition is that I'm getting hit more against redacted melee attacks with tidal but i have no concrete info on that
serene zealot
Why not just cast it into them
It combines the cast and your attack into one, great for high burst damage and PS with one move. With 3 casts, the cast boon pommed up/upgraded by tier two boons, you can oneshot some enemies.
Infernal does give you more casts to work with, but you have to go pick them up, so I personally run Stygian and hope for an extra cast via Chaos, a well, or Artemis’ legendary.
shy patrol
What is Gold Laurel rewards?
serene zealot
Any run only rewards like boons, obels (money), hammers, etc.
Whereas blue laurel rewards are stuff you keep after dying like darkness, keys, and gems.
shy patrol
Oh okay so gods legacy more for the players that dont need resources but wants to beat heat
opal vortex
It combines the cast and your attack into one, great for high burst damage and P...
Ok, thanks. But the mirror upgrades that give + damage to foes with cast stuck in them doesn't proc on the first shot of the cast loaded arrow, does it?
serene zealot
If the cast can get stuck into enemies, it will with Hera.
Which, yes, gives the mirror boost you have on.
shy patrol
Is there any boon that makes your dash deflect but keeps it original boon?
serene zealot
Nope, only divine dash makes it deflect.
shy patrol
Can you make attack or anything else deflect but keep effect you had before, I think second boss and final can be annoying w/o deflect
serene zealot
Nope, the only boons that deflect attacks are Athena’s.
shy patrol
Okay you have any trouble with the purple stuff second boss shoot without deflect?
You can't dash trough or break it
serene zealot
I did at first, but there’s pillars to hide behind and just dashing out of the way is habit now.
shy patrol
Right there is pillars... why havent i used them, alot going on in that fight. I just recently noticed that it's not to dangerous to stand close to his helpers whereas at first i was between them and him therefore being a target for just about everything
serene zealot
It’s also helpful to clear out one side of heads first, so you have a safe area to retreat too if needed.
shy patrol
yea started doing that
i was under the impression they would headbash as the big one but thankfully no
serene zealot
Yeah, each head type does different attacks.
lime jolt
Hey quick Q about divine dash. Does that dash increase melee iframes or is the p...
I frames dont cover dash strikes
Divine dash is just more consistent
shy patrol
do companions replace keepsakes or you can use them both when you unlock?
serene zealot
Both
shy patrol
Just reading about it Thanatos companion seems like a great boost in boss fights?
serene zealot
<@!811054495026380860> does that mean that divine dash does cover dash strikes?
It should, as a dash attack triggers both
serene zealot
Just reading about it Thanatos companion seems like a great boost in boss fights...
It is damage wise (3,000) but it’s a fairly long startup, you have to time it well.
opal vortex
If you put ares cast on the aspect of hera bow does a blade rift erupt where your shot lands?
pulsar jewel
Meg's companion is only 500 damage lower and it's faster to use and has a wide aoe. Sisyphys' companion deals the least damage but probably has the highest impact on your run by healing you for like 24 per cast
I think those two are the most important companions for casual play
serene zealot
If you put ares cast on the aspect of hera bow does a blade rift erupt where you...
Yep
shy patrol
Meg's companion is only 500 damage lower and it's faster to use and has a wide a...
Okay, if you were to pick one you go with sisyphys?
pulsar jewel
For sure yeah
shy patrol
How many times can you use it when upgraded? Wiki dont tell you
pulsar jewel
5 times when upgraded to maximum, you get some darkness and gold as well which is very nice
silver summit
I assume you can't use demeter cast with this thing
I think you can but idk how it works, not sure
shy patrol
Yea i was just going to say, 50 darkness is not bad for an extra !
pulsar jewel
I assume you can't use demeter cast with this thing
You can, but like a good demeter cast build wants achilles spear
serene zealot
How many times can you use it when upgraded? Wiki dont tell you
5 uses, once per room.
pulsar jewel
You don't really get the benefit of the bow because demeter casts stay on the field for a long time, and the bow is about being able to cast really fast + getting the crystals out of the enemy fast
Furthermore with demeter cast on the bow the cast ends up not shooting the target for very long if you don't have aratemis duo, which you should strive for, but you don't always get it
silver summit
But to answer the question in itself: the crystal does drop zt the end of the shot and it is possible, right?
serene zealot
I assume you can't use demeter cast with this thing
It places the laser at the spot you hit, so nope.
pulsar jewel
@silver summit correct
serene zealot
It’s very weird and not that effective
opal vortex
Ya know... I thought "quick favor" was the same regardless of rarity because it was always +1% but I didn't notice common was +1% every 2 seconds and heroic was +1% every 0.5 seconds. Why couldn't they just make it +4% per 2 seconds?
I just think that would have been easier to notice
Anyone else make that dumb mistake?
pulsar jewel
I didn't, although I can see making that mistake
Per 2 seconds is technically worse than per 0.5 seconds even with the same rate. That's the only thing that comes to my mind why it's like that. That can be relevant with zeus aphrodite duo which charges up really fast
silver summit
I did for like the first 2 times I saw it
opal vortex
I have 3 star Chiron keepsake and it is offering me Cyclops and Chimaera jerky. lmfao +70% attack damage for 14 turns
opal vortex
Taking on Hades with only 1 dash is rough
I don't care what the build is
https://imgur.com/sKVRA4x Knocking people away... keeping them at a distance to do +200% damage... hurting them for walking toward me. It all sounded good. Unfortunately it didn't work on Hades
Maybe I should have been using Aphrodite's call every 25% instead of wait for 100%
I beat him though and could afford the 1200 gold titanblood though so it can't be so bad
opal vortex
So how exactly do I use Merciful end? Your attacks that can deflect activate doom. Ok, so if your attack can deflect then you need to cast or use special first and then attack? So you're constantly going from special/cast to attack. Doesn't seem that great unless I am missing something....
Maybe put deflect on dash and doom on your attack and just dash strike like crazy person
opal vortex
what weapon did u use
opal vortex
ok...
Oh I see aspect of demeter...
didn't know that could get rarity upgrades.......
opal vortex
cool cool
lime jolt
I didn’t have it maxed at the time
opal vortex
Ok, thanks
Easiest low heat conditions? I've just been using +15% HP on enemies
Damage control might be easier actuallt
thick latch
Easiest low heat conditions? I've just been using +15% HP on enemies
Tbh thats one of the harder ones. It affects all enemies including bosses
Damage control can be very easy but it also entirely depends on your build. With a fast hitting weapon, such as eris rail or rama bow where you want to special first anyway for shared suffering it can be easy. With slower heavier hitting weapons, namely hestia, it can be a nightmare.
opal vortex
Can you still dash-strike with the "big chop" hammer upgrade?
Sorry, didn't mean to interrupt
thick latch
Personally id recommend you first take tight deadline 1. 9 minutes is more time than you may think. It pauses the timer during dialogue, boon selection, transitions to the next room, fishing points, thanatos etc. and if you need time to think on which room reward you want you can pause the game.
opal vortex
Personally id recommend you first take tight deadline 1. 9 minutes is more time ...
Ohhh, I thought it just kept running
thick latch
With world splitter? Yeah you can dash attack
At least im like 99% sure you can, i never take that hammer so i could be misremembering but im pretty sure
Yeah and even tight deadline 2 really isnt all that bad once you have a feel for running on the clock
But start with tight deadline 1
spiral badge
Can you still dash-strike with the "big chop" hammer upgrade?
yes
thick latch
Convenience fee 1 also isnt that bad unless you find youself relying on shop items a lot. But with dark foresight mirror upgrade i never find convenience fee to be any more than an inconvenience
opal vortex
Convenience fee 1 also isnt that bad unless you find youself relying on shop ite...
I don't "rely" on shop items, but they are a HUGE bonus IMO
thick latch
Is there a target heat level you are shooting for
opal vortex
btw you can dash-strike, but I don't feel like my dash-strike is stronger after taking big chop
I am just unlocking bounties at this moment
thick latch
No the chop is only for the attack
Okay in that case its probably better i list ones I recommend you stay away from
opal vortex
I really wish they would make a better distinction between attack and dash-strike sometimes
Does dash-strike apply doom if you have doom on your attack? etc
thick latch
Yeah
dusky drum
they dont need much of a distinction tho imo
since whatever affects your attack will affect the dash strike
but what affects dash strike wont affect attack
dusky drum
and the only thing that does that are a few hammers and arte dash
opal vortex
So big chop changing your "attack" to base damage 90 should change your dash-strike base damage, no?
thick latch
No it does not. It replaces your attack sequence
dusky drum
it specifies that it replaces the attack sequence
and so it only replaces such
i think
lemme check the description
thick latch
Dash strike already has different base damage from regular attack
90 base damage dash strike would be busted
thick latch
Experience tbh
dusky drum
and thus only the attack is changed
dusky drum
its alright on the right aspect
thick latch
Its a meme hammer for sure
dusky drum
with nemesis you can get big crits
so its funny yea
honestly all sword hammers are poopy
dusky drum
like the only decent ones are double nova, double edge, shadow slash ig, piercing wave sorta, and breaching
and thts it really
and even then they are kinda situational
thick latch
Whats the one that makes you lunge with the special, dash nova right?
I hate that one with a burning passion
thick latch
Id much rather it just be the sturdy.
opal vortex
So I took the time limit heat thing... After beating the first biome I had 2 minutes left. Kinda worried for Elysium and Styx tbh
thick latch
Styx is usually the shortest assuming you dont get rng screwed
And the time carries over to the next area
So youll have 11 minutes for asphodel
If you keep the same pace you may have around 13 minutes in elysium
So if you have to spend a little extra time in elysium thatll be fine
And tbh even if the timer takes a bit of getting used to, its well worth it because once you are used to it, its basically free heat. Even when im just farming darkness from heat levels ive already completed i dont even bother turning off tight deadline 2 because im so used to it i hardly have to think about it
opal vortex
Yeah I can see how it makes you get better at the game
Attacks inflicting doom proc on dash strike because dash strike is under the umbrella of "attack", yes?
lime jolt
The best hammer for sword is double edge
opal vortex
And "blinding flash" says abilities that CAN deflect cause exposed. So if my dash can deflect but it doesn't actually deflect an attack it still causes exposed?
turbid needle
Yup.
opal vortex
So... proof that you can totally mess up a build and still win...
I thought I was playing with aspect of zag and only going for extra procs on doom... never got the ares/athena duo boon and I never even used my special. Wow
Man... I barely know how this game works
slim lynx
32 heat on all weapons really makes you feel like you can just do literally whatever at low heat and still prevail
i might consider running ap2 at some point
opal vortex
ap2?
no boons at all would be challenging I think. Don't know how you'd do that, but...
I guess just sell them as often as you can
slim lynx
shattered shackle is the key to boonless
and fated authority since it lets you shoo away boons
slim lynx
it certainly gets slow since you only have an 80% damage boost from shackle and hammers to help you
opal vortex
Maybe I shouldn't be using ruthless dash
slim lynx
ruthless reflex with nemesis
lime jolt
Lmao yeah dont do ruthless reflex with nemesis
slim lynx
ruthless is just bad most of the time
lime jolt
Nemesis needs dashes
slim lynx
the guy even had d-edge 😭
opal vortex
How is ruthless bad. It seems like it just gives extra damage
slim lynx
ruthless reflex on bow is a good example
ruthless reflex on nemesis is also a very good example since you wanna kill enemies immediately with dash-strikes
lime jolt
Yeah but with nemesis and all other swords, you want to special and then dash strike twice
lime jolt
ruthless reflex on nemesis is also a very good example since you wanna kill enem...
Ruthless on nem is NOT good
Because nemesis needs dashes
opal vortex
I guess I'll try it, but it just seems so much more simple and therefore more effective to just focus on either attack or special; not both
Right now I am just happy to be farming low level bounties
lime jolt
@opal vortex watch a nemesis speedrun
It really shows you how to use the weapon
Nuhai and ananke have really good times
They are really good at the weapon
And tounis
slim lynx
nemesis 4:25 IGT
opal vortex
i don't know what nemesis even is, man! lol
lime jolt
You just used it!!!
lime jolt
Lmao
opal vortex
Do you avoid the casts that don't allow your cast to get stuck in enemies because then you lose the benefit of extra damage from the mirror?
slim lynx
routed runs are suddenly so fascinating to me after cgull's explanation on rng manipulation
slim lynx
Do you avoid the casts that don't allow your cast to get stuck in enemies becaus...
trippy shot is really good on its own, for slicing shot you better already have a boon from artemis because it's only good with hunting blades and hunting blades is really good
crystal beam is... meh
slim lynx
Yeah routed are so much fun to watch
i was not expecting to learn today that you can force a good boon by breaking a few pots then poking battie like 7 times
lime jolt
Yeah lol
slim lynx
apparently taking damage from standing on magma also increments rng like how easy is it to mess that up and then fall off route
lime jolt
Ive seeded my 50, so to keep things interesting I just summon randomly at the end of the room to not know what’s coming
Otherwise I could figure out tartarus really quick
opal vortex
Would hunter's dash be worth taking over athena dash on a sword run?
hearty elbow
Divine Strike is fine, yeah
opal vortex
And then doom on the other one?
hearty elbow
You go Curse of Agony + Divine Flourish + Divine Dash for that. It's exceptionally good too
Nothing really beats ME for damage lol
opal vortex
Curse of Agony + Divine Flourish + Divine Dash and then ME?
hearty elbow
Yeah. You more or less play exactly the same way too
opal vortex
I'll make it happen one day
hearty elbow
But it's a bit high-rolly, and since Curse of Agony doesn't give additive damage or more crit, it doesn't synergize that well with the Nemesis crit buff by tiself.
opal vortex
Is there ever a good build that uses Rare Crop from Demeter?
lime jolt
wouldn't heart rend work better anyway
Heartrend is more consistent
lime jolt
Is there ever a good build that uses Rare Crop from Demeter?
Rare crop is nice if you only have common boons
opal vortex
colin?
lime jolt
Sorry
opal vortex
common hahha
opal vortex
believe it
umbral surge
what's the best speedrun build for Bow?
robust anchor
which bow
umbral surge
the best is Chiron right?
gusty rapids
for speedrunning, no
hera is considered the most consistent and fastest, though zag bow has quite a high top end if you get the right build and boons
Rama can also go fairly fast
though it’s a bit hard to play well
spiral badge
firmly onboard the "zag bow probably has the highest speed ceiling" train
gusty rapids
yeah I don’t think either hera or zag are explored enough yet to firmly say which is the fastest at the very top end, but regardless both can be very fast
spiral badge
i dont think explosive shot is near explored well enough for speed on zag in particular
gusty rapids
I actually do agree, I like explosive shot a good amount as a second hammer
spiral badge
whoo mama that is a hammer with artemis boons / twin shot
ive started taking it as my first. being able to fire it around corners and airburst witches in tartarus is great
the explosion hitbox is maaaaassive. I think it's got amazing potential as an AOE airburst option
and the 0-charge damage at point blank is 90 friggin base if im not too mistaken
thick latch
How exactly does hunters mark status effect work? For example when ive got pressure points and hunters mark along with hangover, it seems to be the case that marked foes dont just take critical damage for one tick, but rather for the duration of the hangover stack
thick latch
Well zag can mean 6 different weapons
umbral surge
bow*
thick latch
But i know artemis is common for speedruns
Dont speedrun myself though so i cant say for sure
gusty rapids
the other way around is better, imo
gusty rapids
for one it lets you get heart rend without having to get 2 artemis boons
and second, artemis on attack scales wayyyyyy better than aphro
turbid needle
30% crit stacking Deadly Strike on Zag is dangerous.
gusty rapids
with things like hunters mark, or chaos dash strike / attack benefit
those all scale ridiculously well with crit
unless you're playing high heat / are not going to get very many boons at all, arty attack is almost always better
personally i like passion dash for heart rend, but tidal dash is also good and hunter dash can be used too (though i dislike hunter dash a bit since it doesnt add any aoe damage like passion / tidal do)
sweet hornet
razor shoals vs rip current? have both dash and call from posei, and sea storm
willow haven
omfg i just did the challenge but the screenshot wasn't of end screen 
yo @cunning urchin pls remove my dupe from the challenge
sweet hornet
what weapon/aspect does tempest strike pair well with?
opal lodge
so tempest strike is probably the worst attacking boon in the game
its only used for meme runs
manic willow
Imma do a 1 heat HS run to check it off the prophecy list
Any tips other than Athena trap avoidance?
valid dagger
||Arthur||
valid dagger
Greater Consecration
sweet hornet
what's HS?
manic willow
Aka low heat give, big impact
sweet hornet
aah
manic willow
I think the blu heart thing is fine
valid dagger
Damage Control is fine indeed, but depends on the weapon, picking dmg control on Hestia or Zag bow for example can be really problematic
manic willow
Flurry shots + attack boon + attack speed upgrade = zwoosh
Ah I see that makes sense MiKE
manic willow
Really?
sweet hornet
I hate elite flame wheels and chariots while playing bows
manic willow
Flame bois suck
sweet hornet
I should unlock rama next, I have bloods saved up
I just did arthur for the first time tonight, I have guan yu unlocked and will try it next
honestly I probably should just stop following dark thirst at this point
manic willow
Ooh I hear guan Yu only good when maxed
valid dagger
I maxed GY thinking ill be spinning all over the place
Ended up using that for Special runs only lol
turbid needle
Dude I want to try the new boss techniques pact all the way up to hades but man I don't wanna lose my 14 win streak
sweet hornet
copy your saves?
turbid needle
Nahh, I'm not that curious
For the time being I've just been farming the lower heats on all of the weapons
turbid needle
Is he that much harder?
sweet hornet
I only read that he has a third phase that hits even harder
coral cave
it is a sight to behold
turbid needle
not even with 60% damage res with arthur sword and aphro weaken on it?
can i just make him do 2 damage each attack
coral cave
damage resistance is multiplicative
fringe summit
What's the best Fist aspect for a ME run?
idle carbon
EM4 hades is something else
this game overall is not fun 32+, it becomes something else
iunno how to call it
harsh fun
coral cave
It's fun in the same way dark souls is fun
idle carbon
imo it's harder than that
coral cave
Hades is the dark souls of roguelites
valid dagger
What's the best Fist aspect for a ME run?
Demeter is probably the most popular one, you could do Gilga aswell, I'd say Demeter is overall more consistent, atleast for me
honest wing
I don't understand what's the difference between demeter and talos for an ME run
isn't the attack basically same and talos bring in more attack damage
valid dagger
Your doom is doing dmg not the attack tbh
limber cloak
demeter's 5 specials do a lot of dmg
honest wing
Your doom is doing dmg not the attack tbh
yes I know that
honest wing
demeter's 5 specials do a lot of dmg
ok
honest wing
ah yes
limber cloak
in souls everything has a pattern
same with hades though
the enemy patterns literally stay the same
nothing changes from the first run to the last, enemies have the same attacks
honest wing
also can you even imagine just demeter going around using gloves to punch people
limber cloak
ikr
valid dagger
lol
daring mango
I cant believe Im gonna say this but stubborn roots just saved my run lol
also hades spear really feels uncomfortable
idle carbon
same with hades though
there is very heavy rng lol you can't deny it
idle carbon
so you always know what boons you are gonna get
which enemies you are gonna face
okay
what mm combos you are gonna see
which hammers you are gonna get
daring mango
haven't done heat 32+ yet but I feel like I can make it through as long as EM4 isn't activated
hades gives you a lot of control compared to other roguelikes/lites
idle carbon
encountering the story room alone in elysium can save a run, that's all just luck
daring mango
an example of roguelike/lite that isn't that forgiving when it comes to RNG is ROR2
limber cloak
encountering the story room alone in elysium can save a run, that's all just luc...
you dont need patty
you dont need good enemies
to beat 32 or even 40 heat really
daring mango
hades is a pretty balanced game with almost every boon not being useless
limber cloak
thats all just crutches to carry the run
mm combos in styx literally dont even matter lol
daring mango
compared to games like enter the gungeon and risk of rain where some items are just plain useless
limber cloak
hammers are important on some weapons and arent that important on others
on sword for example, if you get cursed slash hoarding slash and like world splitter or something, then yeah the run's gone
its still predictable in the way that your skill matters a lot more than what you get
the game can help you if you dont have the skill, but ultimately your skill matters more than other things
manic willow
I need cursed slash purely cuz it’s the last prophecy on sword hammer
daring mango
where do I get flame wheels release
seriously every well of charon I've been
its not there
manic willow
Rip
manic willow
It’s lots of money but so worth it
daring mango
I just need it to finish my prophecy and I can die happy
cunning urchin
yo <@!311477984886521856> pls remove my dupe from the challenge <:residentzag:58...
Done. Congratulations! You can take in-game screenshots with F11.
willow haven
Done. Congratulations! <:dusa:522248771409543188> You can take in-game screensho...
thanks, i'm gonna do that next time
stuck basalt
i thought it was f12?
viral star
what do u guys think of blown kiss as a skill?
cunning urchin
Blown Kiss AOE is great.
honest wing
I wanna try going against em4 with dem cast or ares cast, does that work out well
I'm thinking it would coz I can just drop the casts and hide (each with their respective artemis duo boon of course)
honest wing
yes it does but to me the amount of time it stayed in the air stayed the same, it was faster though meaning it travelled further and hit more stuff
outer badger
I love putting zeus on the hera bow for cast and then aphro for attack.
coral cave
I could see how that would work
honest wing
I despise zeus cast in all its forms
spiral badge
Whoa whoa whoa bahdee
Zeus cast is quite solid for rooms!
Of course I prefer it in its upgraded form, Athena cast
honest wing
lmaooo
also tell me why we can't have double strike on thunder flare
isn't that also a lightning strike
damn the wiki says you can't even get static discharge with thunder flare
ALSO you can get scintillating feast if you have high tolerance
which means get trippy shot, get high tolerance, sell trippy shot, and still get scintillating feast, useless duo moment
the more you know
outer badger
I like it because it can hit several enemies and then if you add a bunch of zeus boons you dont have to attack too often.
I recently tried an arti/aphro combo with hera but I was way too slow
outer badger
idk but it was slow for me
ashen heart
Usually we run Aphro cast with Hera Bow
more often then not you're shooting arrows with cast loaded
I understand the logic, but you could also replace zeus with demeter/dio/ares and go for privileged status
outer badger
hmm I might try that sometime!
I just finished a run with the sword and aphro/ares because I wanted to get their duo boon. Wasn't terrible
outer badger
Your Doom effects continuously strike Weak foes.
Successive Hit Damage: 50%
coral cave
CoL isn't the worst duo but definitely not the best either
outer badger
yeah its not my fav but it did work!
coral cave
It's mostly just good for permanent PS
ashen heart
Sea Storm is agreed on as the best duo right?
coral cave
Eh not really
outer badger
I had the poseidon/demeter one yesterday and it was a bit weird
coral cave
Heart rend and others are up there
ashen heart
Is that the one where everything is epic
coral cave
No that's pos dio
ashen heart
heart rend and merciful end are goated
outer badger
I like sea storm!
coral cave
Sea storm is pretty good
outer badger
exclusive access is super nice if you get it very early
coral cave
I seem to get EA in styx a lot
outer badger
one run I had it in tartarus I think? thats was wonderful
ashen heart
same
coral cave
Got EA as my last boon once
ashen heart
theres nothing quite like getting a good duo in tartarus
coral cave
I laughed and slammed my head on my desk
limber cloak
ive never gotten EA before styx
ashen heart
I got offered the poseidon/artemis cast duo 3 TIMES on a non-cast build
in a single run
outer badger
niiiice
coral cave
I get lightning rod and pos arte so often
limber cloak
mirage shot is like the most common duo that i see yet never take
outer badger
I think stubborn roots is nice if you're still a newbie and slow with Hades (boss)
coral cave
I never use them ever
ashen heart
lighting rod is fun
limber cloak
I get lightning rod and pos arte so often
i run stygian on speedruns solely because of this
ashen heart
Stubborn Roots is pretty good
outer badger
I feel with lightning rod you need things that make it strong though? a simple lightning rod is a bit weak
same with demeters cast
limber cloak
double strike with lightning rod is decent
extra casts means more lightning too
jolted is obviously a must
demeter cast, just needs crystal clarity and glacial glare
then its actually decent
coral cave
I only get lightning rod when I don't have any t2 zeus boons
limber cloak
crystal clarity is a duo between arty and dem, that makes the cast's aiming much better
outer badger
and then his legendary and youre done haha
the demeter/aphro duo is when the cast follows you right?
pulsar jewel
@outer badger i feel like lightning rod is powerful enough vanilla to have on a non-cast build, it doesn't require anything special and if you get it you just throw two of your casts somewhere and one into a boss and you're done basically. it's more or less free damage
i wouldn't design a build around a vanilla lightning rod though that's for sure
it's usually just a bonus
outer badger
true but I remember one run that it really didnt do much, while other runs it was like 10 seconds and bosses were dead
the difference is quite big?
pulsar jewel
i mean yeah sure, if your build happens to bend that way
ashen heart
I remember thesus just losing all his health to lightning rod
pulsar jewel
sometimes you just have zeus for the attack boon on a fast weapon, and you happen to get lightning rod on top
all i'm saying it's net positive most of the time regardless when compared to the average zeus boon otherwise
outer badger
yeah it will always add free damage
pulsar jewel
toughest competition for it that i can think of is call if you have the slot open and jolt if you have privileged status and that's the best way to proc it
outer badger
definitely!
eager whale
i used lightning rod for like 50% of my 40 heat runs
always good to have, even without supporting boons
silver summit
do cast bonuses make lightning rod stronger?
strange lark
oh
silver summit
or i guess is lightning rod considered a cast
strange lark
why do you call damage "bounces"(no)
strange lark
oh
cunning urchin
No.
silver summit
i just didn't know what other word to use
strange lark
WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME
silver summit
okay, just curious, i never actually got lightning rod but i am planning on getting all duos so, good to know, thank nyaanyaa
it's okay japanese(?) cat we all sometimes have brainfarts-
silver summit
sorry i can't make the difference yet ;w;
strange lark
its fine
strange lark
sorry i can't make the difference yet ;w;
you cant tell the difference between japanese and chinese and i cant tell the difference between bonuses and bounces
silver summit
pfft
serene zealot
Chinese for what?
strange lark
my name
serene zealot
oh cool
robust anchor
😳
dense basin
I was wondering where I could ask how to improve my bow skills, so that I can be better with on 16+ heat runs. When enemies are fast it's hard to shot once and well because every enemy hit interrupts my shot charging 
serene zealot
@dusky drum This sounds like something you might have tips for.
I'd help but I haven't tried heat yet rip
dusky drum
ahh ok so a lot of that comes down to not only getting good at the weapon but knowing what heat works with it
so lets just go with 16 heat
whats your usual setup for it??
like pacts
since they can make a massive difference
stuck basalt
do u mind if i also slide into this conversation bc i struggle with mid-high heat bow w/o flurry shot
dusky drum
just dont take flurry lol
its not that great of a hammer imo
like for bow its good to avoid fo mostly for heat
outside of that mostly everything else is fine
but first thing is just getting consistent on dash strikes
then general builds are like aphro/arte attack and a status special
thats a solid structure for most every bow
easy heat for bow is things like your usual td, dc, em, mm(sometimes), cf, etc
and depending on the bow makes some just not exist
i.e. taking rama for js and cp is essentially free
but @stuck basalt @dense basin what do you guys specifically have questions on
since i could go on for a while but i dont want to tell you what you already know :3
dense basin
Generally I know that artemis and aphrodyte is the best combo - it's just how to play around quick enemies like those hoppers z asfodel or skulls on speed buff. Enemis which don't give time to power shot or even just a little to get some more dmg
dusky drum
dash strike
thats the best advice i can give
since dash striking speeds up the powershot a lot
and try to keep a safe distance too
safe distance + consistent dash powershots is very good to get in a habit of doing
unless you get certain hammers
then you have to be more aggressive
also what aspect do yall generally use
so i can give more specific tips and builds :3
(if you cant tell by my tag i played bow a lot :3)
dense basin
Hmm... sounds a lot of like playing on most aspects of swords espect Arthur 🙂 . So I can adapt that.
About aspects... I'm mostly intrested with all of bow aspects expect of hera - game has too much focus on buffing casts
serene zealot
So, Zag, Chiron, and Rama interest you?
dense basin
More than enough
dusky drum
and rama works well with ps
dense basin
Oh ok
dusky drum
same with chiron, try to go for a ps setup
and hammers youd want to go for triple, twin, perfect shot, point blank shot for rama and zag bow
chiron you want to go for relentless + concentrated volley
umm what gods do you like so i can give you a build to cater to it
dense basin
I can go whetever as long as it works and synergises well with weapon and other boons
silver summit
wait
last night i asked if aspect curses (shared suffering rama, lockon chiron, punishing sweep, etc) count for PS and i was told that they don't, so how does rama and charon work well with PS..?
dusky drum
I can go whetever as long as it works and synergises well with weapon and other ...
ight ill just give you a list then
zag bow: heart rend and you can easily get a ps setup so yea :3
chiron: sea storm poseidon is a meme but works really well, arctic blast on special also is fun, dire misfortun is also fun on special, and heart rend is also good(also take aphro attack for easy ps)
rama: aphro/arte attack, take a status special, and your golden
silver summit
poor hera
dusky drum
last night i asked if aspect curses (shared suffering rama, lockon chiron, punis...
you take something like chill on special and weak on attack
dusky drum
~~poor hera~~
lol they didnt ask for hera stuff so :3
dense basin
I heard that aphro works well with hera
dusky drum
yeaa aphro cast works really well
silver summit
yeah poor hera that he's not asking for her
dusky drum
aphro, arte, pos(i heard is alright but im not a fan), dio, lightning phalanx
and btw chiron and hera are more duo weapons so take gods legacy over pride
same with zag if youre running heart rend
rama is better with pride over legacy
dense basin
About ps - is arte target marked and aphro weakness trigger ps?
dusky drum
yes
any god related status contributes to ps
so hangover, marked, weak, doom, rupture, jolted, chill, exposed
all of those contribute if im not missing one
dense basin
I see, so it is how I already noticed in the game
silver summit
one per god so 8
dense basin
Thx for the info guys
dusky drum
yea ofc no problem :3
cunning urchin
Privileged Status on Rama is very unorthodox.
dusky drum
ive played this game too much
dusky drum
Privileged Status on Rama is very unorthodox.
it works well and easily tho :/
silver summit
i never used PS except in my "every mirror talent that i don't use at once so i can get over with this prophecy" run
dusky drum
ps is super nice
easy 40% on the right weapon
since youd need every god to get that with family favorite
and some weapons work better with ps compared to ff
silver summit
i kinda just prefer having a permanent 25%/30%
dusky drum
like hestia id take ff but normally i take ps
lime jolt
Family favorites is a lot better
dense basin
Depends of build
fervent elbow
PS is boon dependent
dense basin
Ff is more perma bonus and ps is more of a combo thing
cunning urchin
Hunter's Mark is poor for enabling PS, not guaranteed, and you'll one-shot most enemies with your Attack anyway. And Deadly Strike is by far the highest-DPS Attack on Rama. How do you benefit from PS?
dusky drum
but with just he right weapon and setup you can get essentially a perm 40% buff with ps
and with rama
that 40% will spread with ss
dense basin
And this is a sign of a good game when all options are vaible
cunning urchin
Your Special can only apply one status curse. You need two for PS.
dusky drum
aphro attack :3
serene zealot
You have a dash/call/cast too
Not the best for getting ps often but they are options
somber drum
@dusky drum if I understand, you like PS o Rama because you only have to maintain it on your attack target and the damage boost will get passed to targets without two curses via shares suffering
cunning urchin
I love Heartbreak Strike, but you will not benefit from PS until after you've applied Weak. And that assumes you have a Special that applies a status curse in the first place. Thunder Flourish doesn't do that without Jolted, and it's one of the best Special boons for Rama.
A lot of your damage will not be amplified by Privileged Status at all, but it will be amplified by Family Favorite.
cunning urchin
That limits your options.
hearty elbow
The damage loop to kill most enemies are special -> 1 attack
That 1 attack will be the majority of the damage you deal to most of the enemies on the screen, and it will not be affected by PS
cunning urchin
It's not that I don't think it can work, I just doubt it's optimal for DPS for any build.
serene zealot
Can't you open with an attack on one target before using your special?
dusky drum
That 1 attack will be the majority of the damage you deal to most of the enemies...
wouldnt twin/triple mess with that tho??
since theres more arrows to it now
cunning urchin
Can't you open with an attack on one target before using your special?
The point of your Special is that it amplifies your Attack damage. There's no point in doing an Attack first. You only skip the Special if you can just kill them with an Attack anyway, but in that case there's no need to use your Special after nor any benefit from PS.
serene zealot
True, but I meant purely to mark an enemy with your first curse to get PS set.
cunning urchin
wouldnt twin/triple mess with that tho??
That should help PS, but it would still only amplify some of your damage while FF amplifies all.
hearty elbow
Let me rephrase this, after some thought. Some enemies do not require Special to kill, but FF will give you the threshold to kill them more easily than having to apply a second status.
Also, you may just not get the statuses, or they don't last long, or aren't consistent. Also PS restricts you from using Deadly Strike, and that just isn't worth it by itself.
cunning urchin
True, but I meant purely to mark an enemy with your first curse to get PS set.
If you're starting to use sub-optimal attack rotations just to enable PS, there's no way you're beating FF in DPS.
serene zealot
Fair
hearty elbow
I think probably the most optimal rotation setup for PS is Heartbreak Strike + Deadly Flourish Chiron. And even then, you do not get the PS damage on the attack, Weak only lasts for 4 seconds, and will fall off before Hangover finishes ticking so you won't get it on those
spiral badge
Honestly I think PS gets a much worse reputation that it’s deserving of
If you get it online by asphodel you’re doing great imo, and it’s not hard to have it rolling sooner with reasonable choices
Excluding the black hole and separate conversation that is artemis builds, of course
cunning urchin
I'd refer to @turbid needle's judgment for what's best on Zeus Aspect for DPS. m very sure it involves crits, though, so I wouldn't expect PS to do much at all.
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Every other god either has a good curse out of the box or a good curse for a t2. And if you get even a little lucky you shouldn’t have much trouble making the time an enemy is alive shorter than the duration of whatever curse you’re applying and reapplying
hearty elbow
You're doing Thunder Flourish so the answer is a pretty easy no.
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If I’m rolling classic zeus on zeus for instance I like PS all day
I’m exactly 1 aphro attack and 1 jolted away from being a powerhouse, both boons I already want
I just don’t think it’s as hard to build towards as it’s made out (outside of artemis) and the bonus is biiig boy number
hearty elbow
The reason that PS gets a bad rap is that it is a hanging "if" statement. FF just gives you your 20-25% every single moment of the run, every run.
cunning urchin
Privileged Status doesn't do that much more than Family Favorite, either.
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I feel its a reasonable “if” when there’s a decent number of gods with good applicable curses on their t1s, and the rest all have it as a useful t2
Only so much probability with a deck that’s somewhat loaded. But it’s all odds
cunning urchin
And while it's global damage, it's only additive.
hearty elbow
The T2s are definitely not worth the conversation, most of them are terrible and not really worth a boon slot, and you've made your build worse for taking them for PS. Hunter's Mark is an amazing boon, terrible for status. Exposed is worse than the majority of Athena's offerings. Jolted is wildly inconsistent.
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I like exposed cause it’s usually littered in the rubble of an otherwise terrible athena roll for me lol, and I usually keep her on dash so I just take my 2nd curse and roll on
Yeah I keep a firm mental boundary between artemis builds and everyone else for PS/FF
hearty elbow
The T2 statuses incentive terrible god room choices. E.g. take a pom for my core, or take the 2nd Zeus I don't need to get a status
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I don’t usually go hunting boon rooms just for t2’s
cunning urchin
I don't know what pom you would take over getting Jolted. 
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I find my luck is usually good enough that I’ve got PS online by asphodel on average just through sheer dumb luck
2nd boon in tartarus if I’m lucky
I open the zeus boon looking for his call, but I leave with jolted because it was a trash roll and hey now I have the rest of my damage going
For instance
hearty elbow
Shrug, then continue. Though I'd at least advise that you keep track of when you make decisions to make that happen, and track the time you actually have PS active.
Just saying, I've done a crapton of Dio builds, and the answer is always very disappointing.
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Eh, yall know more at the end of the day. Thats why I’m here to listen and ask
cunning urchin
It's not that no one's tried out Privileged Status. In fact, that's all we had for quite awhile in Early Access.
hearty elbow
Also this conversation only applies to RI0 AP0 CF0 no UC. Each one of those that you end up adding, it gets way more and more stilted towards FF
cunning urchin
I do think it's the better choice for Chiron Low Tolerance builds. But I can't think of too much else.