hehe
#h1-builds-and-combat
dusky drum
stone escarp
just g o n e
dusky drum
its fun to shred dad
stone escarp
I can't believe I did this lol it started as a darkness farming run
then Chaos was like "hehe 120% special damage" and I was like "heehoo thanksies"
dusky drum
oh damn
that is a lot
chaos is just a bro ngl
well
idk what gender neutral bro is
but still.
static ibex
sword recommendations? I never use it
static ibex
dunno, that's part of why I'm asking
dusky drum
ight
static ibex
just looking to get all my titan blood from heat runs with the sword
stone escarp
I loved using Nemesis sword, and go for heartbreak strike
get the artemis cast or call or dash (dash is amazing)
use dash strikes for damage
I've never done a nemesis heart rend but it sounds delicious
dusky drum
zag aspect: just about anything ngl, high damage special + status attack is always nice, go for ps too
nem aspect: arte attack and or a high % attack and go for heart rend
pos: arte/aphro/pos/zeus/athena casts are all amazing
Hidden: aphro/arte attack and heart rend is cool
static ibex
i like doing crits, so nem sounds fun
dusky drum
yea then a heart rend setup
static ibex
sounds like a plan
dusky drum
and tbh it doesnt matter whether its aphro attack or special same for arte
kinda interchangable
just do you want more crits or higher damage crits
stone escarp
aphro has higher percentages
if you wanna do more crits I'd go for hunter's mark instead of deadly strike
with aphro attack and heart rend
EMBRACE THE DASH STRIKE, THAT'S IMPORTANT
if you can get two extra dashes from Hermes that's basically doubling your damage output
dusky drum
sword dash strike is very pog
my general damage rotation is a special, 2 attacks, repeat
and dash attacks where necessary
special > dash attack > attack > repeat
thats my loop
stone escarp
take it from me, the idiot who preached sword and forced myself to do 32 heat sword before even touching any other weapon
dusky drum
lol yea listen to her for sure, i just do fresh file every once in a while and like sword :/
stone escarp
em4 is really pog ngl
somber drum
@stone escarp yeah I can see it from time to time it looks like a single volley ends at around 1400, and the second volley had a final hit of like 3800
stone escarp
it gets easy after a whilee
stone escarp
<@296107184851386369> yeah I can see it from time to time it looks like a single...
I couldn't even see the damage at phase 2, the health just disappeared
dusky drum
~~it gets easy after a whilee~~
i still dont like em3 ;w;
somber drum
Which means even chaining 2 volleys that second one STARTS at over 1 k and the next seven just get bigger from there!
dusky drum
theseus is so annoying and asterius has wack hitboxes ;w;
stone escarp
yeah lol
dusky drum
and tbh the only hard thing about em4 is the miniboss spawn and phase 3
everything else is easy to learn
somber drum
I feel like EM3 is something you can get used to. Like EM1 and 2 are harder but don't demand a change of tactics, EM 3 is the first to demand it.
dusky drum
em3 is just "be more careful" imo
since you have to watch where theseus is and make sure you dont get hit by any of the asterius shockwaves or his spin
somber drum
But then learning that boss the first time is super hard and frustrating so it's no surprise re-learning it is super hard and frustrating.
dusky drum
and since im on hell mode and play at around 20 heat normally
it scares me ;w;
also can we all agree its really funny to kill theseus while he's still in his god call animation
static ibex
that's what I always shoot for
somber drum
I disagree. I only ever found it super awesome because I only pill this off if I have a greater call saved up or something like that. Then it's a frantic race against time.
dusky drum
ahh
generally when i run pos sword, rama, or hestia i can kill him really quickly
and tbh i forget calls exist half of the time
sour temple
iSea storm would not be so effecive on Chiron because there is an internal coolldown of lighting damage - if can only hit 5 times per second
dusky drum
i mean yea the pos chiron build is there for base damage numbers and not for the lightning but it is a nice damage buff
sour temple
POS has the second best special percentage damage so yeah
I measured the timing for some of the abilities and special moves:
static ibex
well sword is definitely not my favorite, but doable. didn't get heart rend but had a decent Daedalus upgrade with Cruel Thrust which did decent damage
lime jolt
Dedge has entered the chat
azure ledge
Que rico. Sandwich con el pan del osito
A despertar para ir a la escuela
Me chanto la terrible manuela
robust anchor
lime jolt
HS bad
dusky drum
very much so
dusky drum
and youll have fun dying to a trap :3
lime jolt
I remember my guan yu 40 and being one shot the entire second phase to a pot
cold coyote
then i did calesthenics for my 2 and 3 iirc
lime jolt
I don’t recommend
lime jolt
Take td
dusky drum
td is just free
lime jolt
Honestly
dusky drum
yea like 9 min per area isnt hard at all
cold coyote
tight deadline gives 3 heat
lime jolt
MM aint bad either
cold coyote
i'm still doing i heat runs for all the arms
dusky drum
itll give you the 1 heat rewards -_-
dusky drum
yea i mean like if you can deal with hs go ahead
just td is the more optimal choice for low heat
cold coyote
i'd rather not have a thug sneak up behind me moving faster than hermes
if i do a fists 3 heat run i'll-
lime jolt
Don’t take fo
dusky drum
yea fo isnt great low either
cold coyote
ugh use tight deadline
dusky drum
yea td is the time limit
cold coyote
Don’t take fo
jumps back to higheat pins
dusky drum
fo is the speed ones
fervent elbow
FO takes some time to get used to
cold coyote
lemme look at the pact
dusky drum
tight deadline gives 3 heat
yea td1 should only be 1 heat
idk where you got 3 from, maybe you mistook fo for td??
since ik fo is 3 heat
dusky drum
BrUH
cold coyote
wait does hades move faster with fo
cold coyote
fuuuuuuuu
cold coyote
including projectiles
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
dusky drum
thats why i never take it until like 32
cold coyote
DIVINE DASH HERE I COME
fervent elbow
Not too late to turn on FO, I get used to FO2 quite late
like when i was doing 40 heat runs
dusky drum
but yea gerry there are many easier heat to take than fo and hs
cold coyote
mmm i disagree
dusky drum
fo takes time to get used to and hs can be run ending
cold coyote
i think you just SUUHH-HUCK
cold coyote
i think you just SUUHH-HUCK
ahh i love vine
dusky drum
hl, cp, js can be seen as easy
cold coyote
dc can be free
that looks interesting
dusky drum
yea dc is free ngl
dc2 is also free if you run zeus stuff
or just a fast weapon
td2 is kinda ez ngl
i play 32 with td2 js3 and cp2 so like :/
lime jolt
hl, cp, js can be seen as easy
HL i can agree with.
The rest are iffy
dusky drum
what were the 4 they didnt do??
dusky drum
oh yea, youre not in hell mode :/
and do you have mirror maxed??
like all of the upgrades are shown??
since ik ri locks itself until you get it
and hell mode gives you personal liability which is 1 heat and a hell mode exclusive
em4 is locked off too contractor too so that could be it
yeaaa you dont have em4 and perosnal liability i think
gusty rapids
i actually dont think anyone has beaten 59 heat
im p sure tail jumped from 58 to 60
and i know baj has 57 and is just jumping to try and beat 61
gusty rapids
what were the 4 they didnt do??
RI3/4
dusky drum
ahh
dusky drum
i only run ri1 and thats only sometimes on like 32 since i like re rolls :3
gusty rapids
i try to avoid RI1 until like 45 at least tbh
lime jolt
I’ve done RI once for the pact prophecy
dusky drum
like tbh at lower heats its not hard at all
you only lose the run manipulation mirror stuff
lime jolt
It’s just annoying
gusty rapids
yeah its just unfun to me
lime jolt
Like why would you even take it
gusty rapids
i like having builds
lime jolt
Exactly
gusty rapids
i only do it at lower heats when im just going full RI4 mirrorless challenge
lime jolt
Same reason I don’t take CF and UC at around 16-20
dusky drum
you can still have builds without it but yea i see where youre coming from :/
lime jolt
When i do meme builds and stuff
dusky drum
oh i always play with cf2
gusty rapids
it is much much harder to get the build you want with RI1
dusky drum
so like when i have it off i feel rich
gusty rapids
losing dark foresight and rerolls is insane
static karma
I’ve done RI once for the pact prophecy<:dusa:522248771409543188>
Same here, that and AP
Not in the same run
They were awful though
No dark foresight means poopy darkness and nectar rooms
No rerolls hurt too
dusky drum
i mean free random pom and hp isnt bad
static karma
And boon quality sucks
lime jolt
so like when i have it off i feel rich
dusky drum
plus keys give rerolls :/
static karma
I guess it’s mainly not great with underworld customs
Bc you’d like more boons to sell
dusky drum
just make sure you have the one you want on mirror before you turn it off with ri :/
true
lime jolt
I took AP2 for my 40 hestia and it was the worst mistake of my life
dusky drum
ap seems like a nightmare
i took it once
and hated it
the boon i wanted was always the one taken off >:(
odd basalt
What's the best way to play Beowulf? I've always thought it preferred Infernal Soul until I saw Haelian play it with trippy flare/ice wine/scintillating feast with stygian soul and it seemed pretty good too
I've also heard quite frequently that you are supposed to load casts during bull rush, can I get any tips on that? I end up loading 1 or 2 during the dash and the third one is loaded after the dash so it isnt used
gusty rapids
it prefers infernal soul for almost every cast, dio cast is one of the few exceptions
might be the only exception tbh
also yeah idk i think 2 casts midrush is about right, can be a bit hard to do all 3 during the rush
i like preloading 1 so you get the bigger dragon rush
dusky drum
whats the appeal of doing it mid dash??
like
i just dont see why its better than just pre loading
gusty rapids
saves time, and lets you decide on the fly how many casts to use
if you realize ur not gonna hit this enemy you planned on hitting before the rush you dont have to waste ur casts
etc etc
it just gives more flexibility overall imo
dusky drum
ahh
i mean like idk if my hand has the reflexes for it tho ;w;
in such a small window
to just move over and mash A but idk
gusty rapids
i mean you can always rebind cast to a bumper, thats what a lot of ppl do to play cast weapons
i dont personally think the bullrush is too small of a window but it could just be me
charged shot makes this much much harder tho
dusky drum
hehe i dont need a codex button anyway
its already my reload button when im playing rail
i can just have it be cast when im playing beo/hera :/
gusty rapids
i actually do swap cast and reload when i play hera
i might do it for beowulf too, need to see
odd basalt
ah thanks! I thought it should be easy to get all 3 in, will give it a go again soon
gusty rapids
yeah idk abt others but i find all 3 a tad difficult
usually you're not midloading 3 anyways
somber drum
i like having builds
@gusty rapids I actually don't like extensive metagaming and strategy, I just like the action part. But those geniuses at Supergiant even factored me into the equation when they made pacts that strip down all the features that I spent dozens of escape attempts to unlock.
daring mango
So how do I hit hades with arthur aspect with forced overtime and EM4?
hearty elbow
Uh
gusty rapids
great question
hearty elbow
Good luck
gusty rapids
let me know if you find the answer
magic rivet
Chill him?
gusty rapids
get heroic swift strike
coral cave
spiral badge
man. I’ve always had another hammer to take. I got a garbage roll and held my nose for explosive and wow. you just don’t care about powershotting when a totally uncharged shot does 100+ damage
let alone if you actually get to sit still for a second
its official, bow doesnt have a bad attack hammer anywhere
simple trail
The rama special bow hammer is kinda bad imo, with the wave thingy
gusty rapids
yeah its pretty mediocre
spiral badge
bad attack hammers
specials are meh for rama, yeah
hit and miss for bow in general. but every single attack hammer is a gem in its own way 💞
ohhhhh, you meant the concussion blast
spiral badge
yeah that the weakest, though I still do like it for fun a lot lol
makes bow into a hybrid shield
though not that much damage
oh man, I just found twin shot too. I think I’m going to be sick 🥴
gusty rapids
melee rama time
magic rivet
specials are meh for rama, yeah
Extra shots special helps for special builds
spiral badge
I hear you but I feel like the attack hammers will always end up representing more damage output
I’d take +4 special over triple most times though
magic rivet
Oh I'm not suggesting a good build
I'm saying like for an all Zeus build
Something fun
gusty rapids
youd take relentless volley over triple shot most times??
triple shot is arguably rama's best hammer imo
spiral badge
idk I always feel weird with triple
I much prefer twin or bouncing
or explosive for that matter
flat garden
triple needs you to be real close imo which is why i prefer twin
real close to get that triple dmg output*
spiral badge
yeah twin feels the much more consistent of the two
though I do find myself hitting some nice accidental shots in larger areas with triple
gusty rapids
i mean its wide berth is also really nice since you just casually hit multiple enemies in a lot of rooms ive found
i dont think its that difficult to shotgun enemies w 3 shots and when u do they just get deleted
jovial fulcrum
Dread flight on Chaos shield :O
surreal creek
whats the best hera bow build for heat 1-5?
limber cloak
whats the best hera bow build for heat 1-5?
builds dont really matter at that heat, but the best hera bow builds in general are probably with aphro cast on infernal soul
you can also go stygian soul with dio cast, and try to get dio-zeus and dio-demeter duo
another fun build with hera is athena cast, try to get lightning phalanx (zeus-athena duo) and parting shot (aphro-athena duo)
surreal creek
whoch 1 would u recommend? i dont play bow too much. just trying to catch up heat levels with my other weapons
@limber cloak
limber cloak
aphro cast is probably best, since you dont need to go for any duos really
personally, if youre trying to get clears in with the bow, id recommend using chiron. its more beginner friendly than hera id say
though if you dont have chiron maxed, dont use it
also, dont invest more than 1 titan blood in hera. its levelling up is bad
surreal creek
but i already have hera bow lv 2. i mean i have 11 titans blood so ig either max hera bow or get as far as i can on chiron bow?
surreal creek
ok and then play a chiron build?
limber cloak
depends on what level you get it to
if its anything below lvl4, dont use it. just go hera
surreal creek
its lv4
limber cloak
ah, good
then you can go for heartrend chiron
start with artemis keepsake, get her special
then aim for aphrodite attack
and try to get heartrend (duo boon between aphro and arty)
the best hammers you want are concentrated volley (+3 dmg for each consecutive special hit) and relentless volley (+4 special arrows)
surreal creek
ok thx. and do i go stygian or infernal soul?
surreal creek
yeah ok. but maybe there was one
limber cloak
hera max literally doesnt do anything though
you can get the exact same results with lvl 1 hera and a single hermes boon
jovial fulcrum
Charged Shot + Dread Flight is super fun w/ Chaos Shield
jovial fulcrum
just wish i had the ares boon that makes curses stack
limber cloak
basically a ranged weapon
glad void
Hera ig is worth it to get to lvl 3 atleast then its pretty siminishing returns thats true
daring mango
just don't think about specific builds at that heat level
just think that if your weapon is pretty slow but hard hitting, its better to get percentage based boons on that action/attack/special
but if its fast and does little damage, its better to get curse based boons
limber cloak
just don't think about specific builds at that heat level
^you dont need to think about builds on basically any heat thats below like 32
you can if you want, but you dont need to
surreal creek
@limber cloak i got arti special and poseidon dash right. now i have the chice betwee mirage shot (arti poseidon duo) or hunters mark. which do i chose? the duo boon is only for casts so idk if its worth
limber cloak
hunters mark
for sure
even though hunters mark is kinda eh with chiron, mirage shot literally does nothing
jovial fulcrum
Achilles Spear w/
Serrated Point + Heartbreak Strike
Phalanx Shot + Parting Shot
also Stygian Soul and a Chaos Grasp already
I think its Lunge here, but I also think its very close
Hmmmmmm, although its EM4 so I'm going to be leaning on my cast a lot here.
surreal creek
@limber cloak thx for the build. granted it was only heat 1-2 but still got a win. so thx a lot 🙂
limber cloak
👍
fringe summit
Whats a good combo to aim for Shield with Zeus aspect and Zeus boons?
jovial fulcrum
Wow that was the first time I didn't use a DD on EM3 champions
Didn't even take off 100 HP
flat garden
Whats a good combo to aim for Shield with Zeus aspect and Zeus boons?
go all zeus i guess
sea storm is a nice addition if you have poseidon on attack or somethin
real spire
how well would a artemis/athena build go with the stygian blade?
honest wing
do people put arte attack on nemesis sword
that sounds like a lot of crits
but like is there any specific thing that makes it good or is it just there
pearl hare
Advice on what pact of punishment stuff I should choose if I want to do an 8 heat run? I'm good with all the weapons except bow and I can fight the first two EM bosses.
fervent elbow
HL2, EM2, TD2
fervent elbow
At 8 heat, there's plenty of pact setups, so no unique advice
jovial fulcrum
Nooooooo I died with Super Dad at 1/4 in final phase
aaaaagggghhh
I was sooooo close aaaaaahhhhh
surreal creek
hey. i have unlocked all of my mirror but idk which upgrades to buy/focus on maxing first?
somber drum
Advice on what pact of punishment stuff I should choose if I want to do an 8 hea...
I'd probably throw on a TD, MM, and BP
By the way I do not do things smart way, when I got to 8 heat I insisted on RI4.
daring mango
I just realized or maybe just because of coincidence
people are often not good with bows
which is kind of not what I expect I thought people would be having a harder time with sword or fist
fringe summit
Aarrgghhhhh
What do i choose between Hammer chamber or duo Zeus/Demeter chamber
I'm chasing Zeus boons
Always Hammer right?
somber drum
hey. i have unlocked all of my mirror but idk which upgrades to buy/focus on max...
If you haven't beaten the game yet Death Defiance is probably the most useful, it will let you get more practice on sections that are giving you trouble.
surreal creek
i have beat hades like 7 times or smth and dd is 100% the first thing im maxing. but i have 4200 other dark crystal to spend somewhere
somber drum
I'd just start at the top and work down then, that's probably the most economical way.
daring mango
yea the most important ones is just the dash and death defiances
but what I used to do is I spend my darkness on the most expensive one I can afford
until I ran out of darkness
dusky drum
dash, dds, hp, money, casts :3
daring mango
and go for another run
dusky drum
most important
terse coral
I don't think I 'get' how to use Zag's Spear. Any tips?
daring mango
what aspect?
oh wait zag lol
well imo its the bottom of the barrel when it comes to aspects
but go for special and find that exploding spear hammer
or serrated jaw
you just really need the hammers for it to be decent
dusky drum
i like spin :3
terse coral
Spear in general I'm like 'why?'
terse coral
Even the special is laggy
daring mango
ohhhh depends on the aspect achilles is the strongest one
glad void
Achilles is fun sice u can basically tp around
fervent elbow
flurry Jab for zag spear
daring mango
achilles also have a VERY HUGE damage booster
glad void
And the dash attack hammer on achilles spear has no downside p much since u can just yeet out of anywhere anyways
somber drum
Spear in general I'm like 'why?'
It works especially well with mouse and keyboard which is how I play. For instance it's really to use mouse aiming to dash attack at an enemy while dashing away from the.
daring mango
also that dash attack hammer is one of the best spear hammer
if you see it, take it
or the exploding special hammer
you play spear like the sword tbh
terse coral
I did passed a run with RPG spear once but never really got the hang of it
daring mango
for an attack focused build play it like the sword
mystic ember
The explosive spear is awesome, very useful in elysium and styx
daring mango
yea explosive spear is the jackpot for spear specifically zagreus aspect spear
and focused mostly on learning when its safe to attack
that goes for all weapons
dusky drum
thats a c h u n k y special
daring mango
wait how you do that?
terse coral
chaos lol
daring mango
no I mean how you do the victory screen without having the victory
dusky drum
if you just open your boon list you can select things
jovial fulcrum
on Controller is Select. idk about M&K
daring mango
and then just press A for the boons I want highlighted?
dusky drum
you dont need to be in win screen
jovial fulcrum
yeah
dusky drum
yep
somber drum
B key on M&K
daring mango
oh TIL you can highlight it without getting to the victory screen
dusky drum
m&k i think is defauted to B
dusky drum
oh TIL you can highlight it without getting to the victory screen
yea i learned this like 2 days ago lol
and ive been playing since early EA
daring mango
235 hours on hades and literally never knew you could highlight boons outside of victory screen
daring mango
and ive been playing since early EA
ok its normal
jovial fulcrum
I found out about it by accident
like i just fat fingered some buttons and i was like oh
dusky drum
i mean like i can understand why, the victory screen just pulls up boonlist, auto selects 5, and shows stats
so its just how boonlist is coded in :/
jovial fulcrum
it took me a while to realize you could change what boons are displayed on the win screen
Same run.
I have Sea Storm Cold Fusion
poggers
and rush delivery lol
Anvil Clutch, randomed in to Concentrated Volley
turbid needle
Enjoy the next 15 Anvils taking away your primary Hammer and giving you two anti-synergies.
limber cloak
Ez fix: pretend the anvil doesnt exist lol
turbid needle
RIP guaranteed rare Hermes in Styx.
jovial fulcrum
I tend to skip Anvil, only really take it if I have spare gold and don't have a good hammer
when i grabbed the Anvil, I had only Piercing Volley
tranquil falcon
does greater evasion get affected by vengeful mood
opal lodge
no
spiral badge
anvil either salvages a tragically unlucky pair of hammer rolls and gives you at least something or completely ruins a run in a single fell swoop with no in between lol
frail schooner
here take this chain shot
turbid needle
i found the greedy build oh my god i deal too much damage
so basically i unlocked stygius hidden aspect and there is a hammer that lets you deal bonus damage equal to 5% of your gold AND I HAVE AN EPIC SIDE HUSTLE HAHAHA im dealing 100-200-360 damage with each hit
and i got faster attack speed so im not too slowed by the aspects downside
the buff goblin build
turbid needle
im at styx tunnels and havent come across them, tho i have 3k gold and deal 400 damage with my final shot,
dusky drum
nice
turbid needle
i deal 200 BONUS damage
cloud vault
Zag sword?
cloud vault
Oh, Arthur
turbid needle
yea
turbid needle
and i got piercing wave
cloud vault
Flurry slash hoarding slash is the dream lol
dusky drum
both world splitter and flurry arent avaliable i think
turbid needle
dusky drum
im not a fan of flurry tbh
turbid needle
i got hermes attack speed so it negates the aspects downside
dusky drum
it throws off my sword rhythm
turbid needle
true
cloud vault
Flurry is a high roll with piercing wave or hoarding slash
Usually you want double edge and whatever
turbid needle
i mostly use chaos shield but tried switching it up for prochacies
dusky drum
yea double edge/nova are good
turbid needle
chaos shield with ares doom on Q is busted and if you get the stacking going OH MAN you do so much damage
dusky drum
super nova is eh
dusky drum
chaos shield with ares doom on Q is busted and if you get the stacking going OH ...
play ares on chiron bow then :3
turbid needle
the bow SUCKS, no im joking but i dont like the bow i feel super vulnerable when playing with it'
do i get titan blood or do i keep my damage
i got 4k and the titan blood is 1.2k
turbid needle
so that would bring down my bonus damage tooo... 140
dusky drum
thats still crazy tho
turbid needle
yea it is
dusky drum
considering arthur has high bases already
turbid needle
dude imagine if i had CRITS
i would be doing 1k damage on my third attack with crits
DUDE I MELTED HADES
ABSOLUTELY DESTROYED
probably my fastest hades kill
each hit took atleast 2 or 3 precent of his bar
OH AND THERE IS A FISHING SPOT LETS GOOOO
spiral badge
some things in this game Just Can’t Crit
the bonus damage from hoarding slash being one of them
the bonus damage from shield’s explosive return being another
until very recently used to be zeus bolts too
serene zealot
Has anyone made a list of the stuff that can't crit by any chance?
spiral badge
its a pretty short one fwiw
and if you did have artemis you’d still be seeing ordinary crit damage, it’s just the bonus damage itself cannot crit
it’s a mostly ignore-able effect now that zeus can. That’s really everything important, with only very niche items being excluded now to my knowledge
serene zealot
ah
static ibex
well this is fortuitous. Got Aphrodite + Artemis and then another Aphrodite which yielded Heart Rend in Tartarus, haha
pulsar jewel
Hey anyone know if the poseidon zeus duo sea storm triggers the zeus legendary splitting bolt?
"Whenever you strike foes with lightning boons, fire an electric bolt" i'm triggering lightning through my poseidon special, it does have the duo in addition which i assume is a lightning boon as well, but i don't know if it works together or not
hearty mulch
Hey anyone know if the poseidon zeus duo sea storm triggers the zeus legendary s...
I think so, though I have not had a run where I had both Sea Storm and Splitting Bolt
Mostly since the runs where I did have the possibility to do so, I just took Double Strike or Jolted instead due to the better damage
pulsar jewel
I took it and I believe it did work
glad void
doing hades no boons with nemesis was not the move
especially when the stupid hammer trade thing gave me cursed slash instead of literally anything else
i just wanted to roll for double edge 😖
also armoured bow dudes when u have no boons and cant break their armour fast enough destroy u so hard
lime jolt
"Whenever you strike foes with lightning boons, fire an electric bolt" i'm trigg...
It works
Wait lemme check
Yep it does
pulsar jewel
I had chaos shield with deflect on attack and dash, knockback on special, zeus on call and artemis on cast with the idea of having an option of getting the 20% crit duo
But I think I'll try a run where I have poseidon attack, special and dash with zeus call, and try to get the zeus lege + zeus poseidon duo
For maximum lightning bolt shenanigans 😄
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xdlW25KenU this was the hades fight
static karma
what are good builds for zag bow?
spiral badge
close your eyes and pretend you’re building nemesis
static karma
but i'm using a good weapon
spiral badge
zag bow is pretty much word-for-word ranged nemesis
except hammers are amazing and one of your big force multipliers
for zag bow
static karma
I'll try aphro attack for zag bow
dusky drum
but i'm using a good weapon
BrUh NemsIs Is GoOd
static karma
since that's what I'd do for nem
spiral badge
arty for zag
get them crits going bro
you’ve got the safety to engage for maximum damage now
dusky drum
yea arte or aphro
spiral badge
lean into your crit attribute
aphro is 2nd choice tho
perfectly respectable
but zag bow is built around more crits morecrits just like nemesis
spiral badge
so they get built quite similar. difference being that all of the bow’s attack-focused hammers are amazing.
dusky drum
point blank + triple/twin is always a ride and a half
spiral badge
yeah if I was going to build zag bow I’d go for arty attack, aphro special??, aphro/athena dash (prefer aphro for heart rend) and maybe posiedon or athena cast?
or artemis cast again
posiedon dash is always an option too ofc
spiral badge
also an option
aphro is the attack choice for PS setups
you could see very good mileage out of that if you choose
might steer more clear of artemis then though. which is fine, twin shot hammer can bring your base crit chance up to 30% to match nemesis so you’ll be just fine
lime jolt
zag bow is pretty much word-for-word ranged nemesis
If you can get nemesis going its better than zag bow imo
dusky drum
my sword 32 was with nem :3
it was very fun
aphro attack and my special was going to be arte for heart rend but i got ares stuff :/
i like nem more than zag bow
lime jolt
Same
pulsar jewel
Is any Zag weapon good?
dusky drum
comparatively no imo
pulsar jewel
I feel like the ones that change the mechanics around are way more powerful
dusky drum
the second you can get aspects they become obsolete
pulsar jewel
Ye
spiral badge
nem has a higher damage cap probably
but zag bow is so much safer and has such a better hammer selection
spiral badge
makes for a much easier ride for me imo
pulsar jewel
My favorite bow build at the moment is Rama Hangover
spiral badge
Is any Zag weapon good?
Most all of the zag weapons are at least “good”
dusky drum
hangover rama is eh imo
spiral badge
The question you may be asking is are they great next to their brothers and sisters. the answer to that is more mixed
dusky drum
i prefer having special just be any status and aphro attack for ps
spiral badge
most zag aspects cap out at “good”
some can be put into “great” like bow. others are decent contenders like shield, fists and gun
pulsar jewel
@spiral badge the game has selectable difficulty, if they're always the worst choice spinning that to be good doesn't work in my mind
lime jolt
Hangover rama
spiral badge
<@!377952517910429696> the game has selectable difficulty, if they're always the...
if the game only takes 100% of a weapon’s capability to clear, then using a weapon that has 200% of that capability is overkill. Is one of those better on paper than the other? Yes. Is the other one bad because of this? No
Those two answers can exist simultaneously. Everything’s relative
pulsar jewel
This guy's like a scientologist or something
spiral badge
A bad weapon could not consistently clear the game
zag aspects can all at least do that
pulsar jewel
There's no weapon in the game that you couldn't consistently clear the game with at zero heat
dusky drum
yea thats how i feel about this game, nothing is bad, other things are just better tho
spiral badge
Then we agree that Zag aspects have merit
pulsar jewel
And as such that isn't the marker we use to dictate what is good and what is bad
dusky drum
yea they have merit just theres better options imo :/
spiral badge
The answer to that statement is that the real marker that one would use to dictate that kind of performance is well outside the ordinary bandwidth of play. Zag shield isn’t going to truly run out of gas on you until, 50 heat say, and even then you’ll have some kind of chance
Basing performance metrics on what happens in the 99th percentile of the game isn’t the most realistic lens to view the entire lineup through
it’s a way to look at it
but I don’t think it’s accurate to call zag bow or shield bad just because they aren’t rama or zeus
how much good do you need, exactly?
dusky drum
high heat be like "only a few weapons are viable"
like i think the 60 heat that was done was a rama run
spiral badge
I mean yeah, that’s the truest answer to viability you’re going to get
pulsar jewel
this aurash guy doesn't seem to be the sort of person who really listens to logic so i'm just gonna mute him and move on
spiral badge
but how worthwhile is that answer to you, the general user?
lol nice to meet ya brah ❤️
pulsar jewel
anyways what's wrong with rama hangover?
pulsar jewel
you get all the synergies and then it deals way damage, also it's very safe
i would never take it with time control true
dusky drum
rupture on rama special is always nice
lime jolt
It still works with time control
i cant really say much since hangover spam is what I used for my first 32 but it doesnt feel good
dusky drum
imo dio is just bad :/
pulsar jewel
what feels better on the bow?
lime jolt
Rama has way more potential than just spamming special
pulsar jewel
bow is probably the one weapon i have the least builds that feel good
currently basically hangover rama is my go-to
dusky drum
ps aphro attack rama is my go to
spiral badge
hangover rama is nice for artemis builds
pulsar jewel
with hera you can do cast builds, but those feel like inferior achilles builds
dusky drum
cuz its just chunky
spiral badge
which is conventional for rama
dusky drum
with hera you can do cast builds, but those feel like inferior achilles builds
debatable, range is super nice
spiral badge
one of the few times their duo will typically mean something
dusky drum
and bow has better main attack damage imo and thus beats spear
pulsar jewel
well casts are inherently ranged, well the good ones
spiral badge
but it’s a support mechanic, not the star of the show
pulsar jewel
well spear has a decent range, and later on you're relying on the casts primarily
lime jolt
Aphro cast works really well with hera
fringe summit
What the hell do you even do against that sweap attack from Hades?
spiral badge
and talos
dusky drum
dio cast is also fun with it
lime jolt
And hera can fire them off together
fringe summit
Seems like it doesnt matter what i do, you'll get hit anyway
lime jolt
Good burst damage
dusky drum
What the hell do you even do against that sweap attack from Hades?
dash to the side or inward
lime jolt
Use I frames
fringe summit
Ehm stupid question: what's i frames
pulsar jewel
i have basically two approaches to cast builds, if the cast sticks then i use poseidon with exit wounds
lime jolt
Invincibilty frames
pulsar jewel
if it doesn't i use achilles, and i've like tried to figure out if some of the other cast weapons beats these but i haven't been able to
spiral badge
What the hell do you even do against that sweap attack from Hades?
stand still and slow your heartbeat for just a bit when you see him winding up. when the little circle he makes around the outside of his spear is almost complete, dash through him without attacking
pulsar jewel
basically the TL;DR with the non-achilles cast builds that don't stick is that they don't really deal enough damage
spiral badge
dashing without attacking grants you invincibility during your dash
pulsar jewel
that 150% is quite large
fringe summit
Oooh for real?
My brain is programmed so that i hit left mouse button whenever i hit Space lol
spiral badge
so when you see him wind up, take a beat to stay still, don’t let the timing psych you out because it’s later than you think it is
spiral badge
My brain is programmed so that i hit left mouse button whenever i hit Space lol
I had to unlearn this specific habit
fringe summit
Yeah, the circle indicator isn't the damage yet
Oh wow, that's an eye opener. Thanks
spiral badge
your dash is no longer invincible the second it becomes your dash attack
that’s the rule
fallen charm
hi
spiral badge
so wait patiently and use your invincible empty dash when the outer circle is complete and he actually swings
spiral badge
fwiw, if you time everything correctly it won’t matter, but it’s good practice to try and dash through his spin
fringe summit
Yeah the 2nd dash is without damage. I see
spiral badge
not away from it
lime jolt
First one I mistimed it
spiral badge
Run towards, not away when you can. the shortest route to your safety is opposite the direction he is travelling
dusky drum
you can always just dash perpendicular twice tho
dusky drum
Run towards, not away when you can. the shortest route to your safety is opposit...
this too
like dash into or perpendicular
spiral badge
that’s a general roguelike life tip
brought to you by years of Enter the Gungeon playing
lime jolt
This was when I was still learning I frames and how to use them. I recommend making a save file at hades and practicing the spins
It really helps
I-Frames are huge in this game
dusky drum
brought to you by years of Enter the Gungeon playing
honestly gungeon taught me the absolute beauty of rolling to the side instead of in
spiral badge
yeah perpendicular is also a great direction
straight through or away in a different direction
fringe summit
Any recommendation on a Shield build? I just went full Zeus and wasn't really impressed
spiral badge
avoid actually fleeing when possible
fringe summit
I only have Zagreus or Zeus
spiral badge
those two are pretty nice
lime jolt
Chaos and zeus are also very good
spiral badge
are you running any significant heat?
fringe summit
Not yet
Just got my first clear yesterday, so i'm still getting some experience in actually being able to clear it 😛
spiral badge
ok. zag shield I build really generally but I usually try to go for a priv. stat oriented build with aphrodite on attack and usually ares on special
fringe summit
But still go full Zeus boons?
spiral badge
Zeus shield is all about zeus on special then all the zeus you can cram down your gullet
dusky drum
ok. zag shield I build really generally but I usually try to go for a priv. stat...
hehe im having ME flashbacks
spiral badge
But still go full Zeus boons?
All the Zeus boons
Play zag shield with 0 brain cells in general
fringe summit
Hmm alright. Thanks. Giving it 1 more try before trying something else
spiral badge
move fast and hit hard
spiral badge
yeah it’s great
pulsar jewel
@fringe summit for physical builds I find that privileged status is a big part of the builds, that + chaos shield + zeus special is usually enough damage to beat EM4 hades for me on its own
lime jolt
Chonky damage
spiral badge
I can’t tell you why but I swear to god Aphrodite’s damage output always feels better for me than Arty on Zag shield and Zag shield alone
maybe its cause zag shield is a PS machine so you tend to get it going early and often
Zeus too, for that matter
pulsar jewel
or you'll obviously want anything to help but my point is zeus shield is so powerful that i haven't felt that i specifically need duos or legendaries to win with it, but obviously zeus synergies are just good on top of that
dusky drum
imo arte kinda meh unless its nem or gy
like unless im going all in on crits i prefer weak and consistent damage with aphro
lime jolt
I did the mafs before and arty is better
dusky drum
but you have to think
just because you have 15%, and thus 3/20, doesnt mean youll get 3 crits every 20
which is why i dont like arte much
lime jolt
Hunters mark artemis the best god in the game imo
Even without hunters mark artemis is still insanely good
neon bramble
There's more to the game than just big numbers.
I tend to agree with @dusky drum
I prefer consistency over burst damage. Over the course of an entire run, damage output is nearly equivalent
Here's the thing...
If you go Artemis, you take FF instead of PS
Then, you actually have a substantial argument for Artemis being crazy damage, and consistent on top of that
lime jolt
No I literally did the math of something like rama bow and artemis does more damage over time
lime jolt
(120*1.5) x 15 = 2700 - Aphrodite
((120 x 1.2) x (15 x 0.85)) + (3 x (120 x 1.2)) x (15 x 0.15) = 2802 - Artemis
Right but that crit chance is still huge
dusky drum
thats also a very small gap
dusky drum
when if you dont get crits itll be lower
neon bramble
The problem is this @lime jolt
That Crit often lands when you don't need it, with the enemy at near death
lime jolt
Aphro - 180
Artemis - 187.2
neon bramble
So... It's a wash
lime jolt
Average damage per shot
At rama
Its still better imo
And with hunters mark it makes it better by a tenfold
dusky drum
And with hunters mark it makes it better by a tenfold
still rng tho :/
neon bramble
And... If you take pressure points with Aphro, all bets are off
somber drum
The secret is to be bad enough at this game to still need the survivability edge you get from Weakness.
neon bramble
You can argue this all day and night
lime jolt
idk take aphrodite if you want but there is a reason people always take artemis over aphrodite
opal lodge
arti better for rama because it has a method to distribute the crit over aoe
its the only weapon in the game that can AoE crit
that's pretty valuable
neon bramble
its the only weapon in the game that can AoE crit
Say what now? No.
dusky drum
unless its like a 30-50% chance at base
neon bramble
Many weapons AOE Crit
opal lodge
it still outscales with hunter dash/chaos boons/jerky/HM
what other weapon
other weapons it's rolled separately
lime jolt
I dont know a weapon that would like aphrodite more than artemis
Big chunky weapons like aphro
opal lodge
rama it's rolled at once since it's applied via shared suffering
neon bramble
Demeter fist + explosive upper
opal lodge
nope that's rolled separately
lime jolt
And the rest are zeus or cast weapons
opal lodge
per target
neon bramble
Any rail special
lime jolt
Correct me if I'm wrong
opal lodge
that's also rolled separately lol
lime jolt
All weapons that like aphrodite, artemis would be better
opal lodge
aphrodite is a settle
lime jolt
hesita, guan yu, rama, arthur etc.
opal lodge
it's still very good base dmg
lime jolt
But artemis is better imo
lime jolt
With ap2 I will gladly take an aphrodite
fervent elbow
I take both Arty + Aphro for that sweet HR
opal lodge
but as soon as you get HM or a decent chaos or hunter dash arti takes off
gusty rapids
hunters mark
lime jolt
ok yeah
gusty rapids
aphro is strong out the gate but much harder to scale
opal lodge
^
gusty rapids
arty is also strong out the gate but much easier to scale
lime jolt
Hunters mark makes arty the best thing in the game imo
gusty rapids
i think its still strong enough that it doesnt matter a whole lot
lime jolt
Its just so good
gusty rapids
lol
lime jolt
yep
gusty rapids
yeah kinda
lime jolt
exactly
dusky drum
damage reduction is very nice tho
opal lodge
yeah weak is nice
dusky drum
and sweet surrender is ight
opal lodge
again, not to say i dislike aphro
dusky drum
unhealthy fixation tho 👀
opal lodge
it's just artemis will outscale until you reach AP2/RI pacts
opal lodge
once you have very limited boon selection aphro becomes better
gusty rapids
i generally prefer aphro once i click the AP2 button
opal lodge
yup
lime jolt
Lol yeah
opal lodge
but yeah again, especially on rama, even naked deadly strike is valuable, and here's the reason
that 15% chance to crit is pretty tiny
but
if it crits on one enemy
that crit is distributed across every enemy that has shared suffering
lime jolt
yeah rama is huge aoe
opal lodge
which is insane
lime jolt
yup
gusty rapids
yea shared suffering is ridiculous
opal lodge
it's viable
dusky drum
since you ahve 30%
opal lodge
yeah again it's like fine
arty attack will just outscale if you get any boons
which you will without AP2/RI
gusty rapids
if you get 1 supporting boon, arty attack automatically outscales
lime jolt
Its basically ((rama base + (rama base 3)) * 0.6) + rama base + (rama base3)
For shared suffering
I think
Idk if I did that right
Those are only for crits
spiral badge
I think you’ve got a 3 where there should be a 2 but that looks right otherwise
You end up with 300% base damage on a crit, not 100%+300%
Unless I misread you
lime jolt
yup I was wrong
glad void
is doing no boons sword stupid even if i get double edge
mighty ermine
shackle nemesis with double edge would still be very strong
doesn't sound stupid to me
glad void
i think main thing that rekt me last time i tried was rolling into cursed slash from the hammer in last shop tbh
glad void
on no boon runs should i clear two boon rooms first so i dont get stuck with a boon
dusky drum
in styx??
dusky drum
what i do is just do the 2 non boon rooms and hope i get a 2 sack :/
glad void
i have the perfect hammers so maybe ill bank on a 3 sack atleast maybe
dusky drum
and if you dont you can always hope for a purge fountain in the last room of the god chambers
glad void
i have a bunch of meg calls so i think ill do the hermes boss tunnel first then bank on atleast a 3 sack
pls no vermin 🙏
dusky drum
ive done like one successful boonless and that was a rama 2 sack so sorry i cant be of much help 
sour temple
Artemis makes sense on attack/special only if you have other sources of damage to stack i.e. CHaos hammers etc
spiral badge
If you’re trying to do true boonless take fated authority and you can roll those rooms away into poms/health/coin etc
dusky drum
and dont take dark forsight i think is also a good idea
spiral badge
As well as in general throughout the run. If it’s just for shackle you can usually roll the boons themselves away from the undesired slot
Yeah also that
Who wants more boons on a boonless run
glad void
bruh i didnt get a single purging fountain ughh
guess im buying fated authority
my shackle is 3 star now too
spiral badge
if you just want the achievement/dialog you can just reset your mirror and dump everything into FA
then switch back later
dusky drum
thats what i did lol
i just reset mirror, specked into what i needed and thats it
and dumped the leftover into FA
dusky drum
mhm??
stuck basalt
achilles spear+ athena cast+ zeus and athena duo
stuck basalt
i killed the heroes in like 15 sec flag
dusky drum
lots of damage
lime jolt
It’s good
stuck basalt
i’m doing like 2800 damage per cast round this is insane
lime jolt
If you want more damage go zeus cast
dusky drum
i did it once with pos sword and i got parting shot and mirage shot too
stuck basalt
also i got greater recall from hermes which is just chef’s kiss
dusky drum
it was the perfect cast run
lime jolt
Its literally insta kill rooms
stuck basalt
i do zeus cast on poseidon sword
lime jolt
With achilles it’s even nuttier
stuck basalt
anyway i’m gonna finish this run but considering i have 3 DDs leaving heros i think im@good
let’s hope rn-jesus doesn’t five sack me
starting hades fight after a three sack. let’s hope my dodge game is decent enough
update: it was :)
dusky drum
epic
stuck basalt
truly
static karma
i'm really liking zag bow so far
dusky drum
zag bow 🤮
spiral badge
zag bow is great haters vacate
dusky drum
its alright, just kinda bad compared to the other options
flat garden
after using it for a dozen runs, i think i like ruthless reflex now
flat garden
dodge chances are better for me because i just cant get good at dodge rolling lol
i mean dashing
im very bad at predicting where i would land
gusty rapids
zag bow is goated send tweet
stuck basalt
the only time i use ruthless reflex is with gilgamesh
otherwise, extra dash all day every day
flat garden
yeah i get you
i just got the chaos legendary for the second time of my entire playthrough
daring mango
its hard to dash dodge hades' spin with a single dash
also a lot of attacks I cant avoid with a single dash
lucid moth
is serrated point good
lucid moth
im doing speedruns on aspect of hades
robust anchor
serrated is great
lucid moth
oh the other option is massive spin (im doing aspect of hades so would this be better)
dusky drum
yea probably
robust anchor
its the best hammer on hades spear
lucid moth
massive spin, chain skewer or serrated
dusky drum
i prefer quick/massive on hades
lucid moth
its the best hammer on hades spear
serrated?
dusky drum
yea since you ge tthe 150% damage
lucid moth
are u lying?
dusky drum
and you have a tripled dash attack
robust anchor
no
lucid moth
ok i took it
dusky drum
and get like arte dash and its even more chunky
dusky drum
i like hades spear more than achilles tbh
robust anchor
me too
dusky drum
gy is fun too
dusky drum
epic
daring mango
dont think about serrated jaw as a quicker attack
think of it as a +200% attack boost
flat garden
just survived 1:20 after my td deadline is up, ama
lucid moth
lol nice
flat garden
problem is i have no more dd's left for the em4 fight lol
lucid moth
i died during my run
lucid moth
problem is i have no more dd's left for the em4 fight lol
i used SD lol
lucid moth
what build?
flat garden
no build
i was trying to go for highest move speed i can manage and try to get rush delivery
but i got neither of those
elysium rooms are so spread out
dead
tame zodiac
Can you have twin shot and triple shot in one run?
dusky drum
no, having one makes the other impossible to get
calm ridge
does dash strike benefit from boons that improve attack?