h1-builds-and-combat

[hearty elbow]

Oh Parting Shot, what a beautiful tooltip thou hast

[pulsar jewel]

Reason I thought it worked that way was because if it allowed them to backstab why wouldn't it just plainly state your casts can backstab, but yeah good to know

[hearty elbow]

The tooltip is famously ambiguous

You're not crazy for thinking that lol

[pulsar jewel]

Thanks 😄

[tranquil falcon]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/735229545694625924/814957962405085284/unknown.png?width=1051&height=657

so you know how legendaries are supposed to be rare

chamber 8

EIGHT

[meager knoll]

yo

that’s some insane luck right there

anyway men what do you think i should go for with a hestia aspect run in terms of boon combos or hammers
I’ve been really liking the aspect because i’m just used to reloading a lot with exagryph

Haven’t maxed it out yet

[tranquil falcon]

also i got artemis

but this run might just be dead

because i took charon and lost 3 dds since i only had 100 MAX

hp

[jovial fulcrum]

There's always Patty

Unless you're past patty

Then I hope you have gold and rerolls for wells

[serene zealot]

She's nowhere near Pat, so I hope you have enough gold for restocks on wells

[tranquil falcon]

she

and yeah hopefully

i'm just gonna try and not screw up tsiphone lol

[raw vapor]

If you get hunting blades it's a free win (or whatever the duo is called)

[serene zealot]

Oh my bad, I used he without thinking

[tranquil falcon]

it's ok

now here's my dilemma

do i roll the shop to try and get 1 DD

in between tartarus and asphodel

4 rolls

ok i rolled and it worked

lol

impatient

[dusky drum]

i mean i was gonna say yea :3

i was doing a run last night and i rerolled the shop twice and didnt get one ;w;

[tranquil falcon]

i don't think i've ever not gotten a DD on a roll

like on the sho

p

oh rip

[dusky drum]

yeaaa

it was a fist 32 heat

[jaunty roost]

Does Chaos' maimed flourish (increases special damage) also increase damage of doom effects caused by specials?

[dusky drum]

and i got screwed by elysium

[jaunty roost]

no right?

[tranquil falcon]

all of the time i've rolled were in styx

lmao

[tranquil falcon]

nope

[jaunty roost]

thanks

[dusky drum]

yea its just the hit itself that gets buffed

not doom :3

[serene zealot]

I normally get it to show up after a roll, but the few times I haven't, I didn't actually need it lol

Maybe the fear of death has me playing better

[tranquil falcon]

what do you guys usually use summons on?

like which fights

for me it's usually asphodel miniboss, elysium miniboss, heroes, hades

and one summon saved for later

maybe in styx

maybe in tartarus

[serene zealot]

I got used to just three Meg summons so Champions, Hades, and one left for Styx if needed

[tranquil falcon]

oh why only 3?

did you just not upgrade meg

[meager knoll]

imagine having summons

[serene zealot]

I ran out of ambrosia to upgrade it more

[tranquil falcon]

ah

well meg on the butterfly ball helps a LOT

so

[serene zealot]

True

[meager knoll]

Don’t you get them from deepening the relationships and completing those

[tranquil falcon]

butterfly ball and the gorgon+stone head

[serene zealot]

The megagorgon isn't too bad

[tranquil falcon]

those two fights are much faster with meg

[fervent elbow]

Lernie last phase when my hp is very low, Elysium midboss + boss, Styx, Hades

[tranquil falcon]

yeah but it's just annoying

[tranquil falcon]

yea

[serene zealot]

But the butterfly ball can go die in a hole

[meager knoll]

gotcha gotcha

Oh i hate that miniboss

[tranquil falcon]

^ same lol

[meager knoll]

honestly it’s not so much the soulcatcher but all the exalted that spawn in

[serene zealot]

^

[tranquil falcon]

HOLY

so you know how the doomstone spawns like 200 other doomstone things in em4

well with blade rifts

and mirage shot

i can literally get an instant greater call

like within 2 seconds

[spiral badge]

Ares dashes are insane for call generation too

Underrated aspect of his rifts tbh

[tranquil falcon]

if only i had pp

pp hunter instinct

[still vortex]

@void brook you asked in new players and this is a channel that allows spoilers

[void brook]

ok

[serene zealot]

Does storm lightning affect Zeus' cast?

[dusky drum]

whats storm lightning again??

i use zeus a lot so i probably know the answer i just forget what boon that is

[serene zealot]

Your chain lightning effects bounce more times before expiring

[tranquil falcon]

yes

it affects the cast and the attack

[serene zealot]

ooooo

[dusky drum]

yea, anything that lightning chains is affected by that

hence why people take it for crowd control

[serene zealot]

Yeah, I grabbed it on Hestia

Since reloading is so slow, a good cast is nice

[tranquil falcon]

wait am i high or does hades start at like 80% or 90% health in EM4

like once going into phase 3

[gusty rapids]

yeah

[pulsar jewel]

If you purge a hermes boon can you get a third hermes before styx shop?

[vernal bramble]

can i still get eris rail effect with rocket bomb?

[coral cave]

Ye

[opaque hare]

which boons works better with the heart-seeking bow

[dusky drum]

what aspect??

or just in general??

[opal lodge]

nope

usually artemis attack across the board

aphro attack for chiron

[hearty elbow]

Artemis/Aphro attack on pretty much every bow works great

[opaque hare]

zag and chiron

[dusky drum]

ummm chiron works with anything that isnt zeus tbh

and zag is best with artemis/aphro as ledgerdamayn said

[opaque hare]

and between dio and ares which is better?

[dusky drum]

for chiron??

[opaque hare]

yes

[dusky drum]

ares requires more boons to really get active but i prefer ares

[opaque hare]

im kind of done with zag, i like that crit rate but is not working for me

[dusky drum]

dio damage is too small

and if you can run for like curse of longing on chiron then thats epic

for constant ps effect

[opaque hare]

ill go for it

[dusky drum]

yea, curse of longing and both doom boons

and youll be in buisness

also specifically the relentless volley hammer

[cloud vault]

Chiron you can do ares attack dio special

Aphro attack art special

Aphro attack dio special

[uncut comet]

maxing out those hidden aspects are helping me out so far

[woven ivy]

does anyone have any tips for chiron bow

i have a good build rn and am at styx but i kinda suck at using it

keep getting hit while shooting

[burnt breach]

I like to just point blank the attack, special then immediately dash and special again, if you're fast you can get a 3rd special off before you need to attack again

if you're safe enough to charge up the shot from a distance that's better, especially against melee heavy foes

but point blank lets me pretty much just tap attack

athena dash is always good unless you need the dash for something else

styx is definitely harder, I keep getting poisoned.

same stuff still applies tho

[woven ivy]

ah alright then

do you dash strike or just normal strike actually

[flat garden]

dash strike is faster so do it if you dont have range on them

if you know their attack patterns well you can time normal attacks

[woven ivy]

ok then i'll try that out

thanks guys

[red thunder]

Anyone found a use for Curse of Drowning? It's really cool, but it only ever seems to put me in danger.

[flat garden]

it sucks lol

its probably the worst duo boon for me

[coral cave]

worse than cold embrace?

[flat garden]

at least cold embrace can be used right

you have to stand real close for drowning to work

[cloud vault]

Curse of drowning might be good on the same builds that already take merciful end

[hearty mulch]

Curse of Drowning is kinda supposed to be a utility boon

besides, it does look like it'd go far better with Beo than anything else

since that means more damage

Still worse than Mirage Shot though

[flat garden]

it still sucks with beo

the cast damage gets delayed

[tame zodiac]

Which do you guys prefer, Aphrodite or Artemis attack for Excalibur?

[coral cave]

Artemis

[unborn trellis]

Chonky crits

[lime jolt]

Artemis

[lime jolt]

Mirage shot is actually really good on beo

[hearty mulch]

I know. I'm saying CoD is worse than Mirage Shot on Beo.

Mirage Shot is legit fantastic

[lime jolt]

Oh ok

[wispy fossil]

Is having both flurry jab and serrated point useless or do they actually go good together?

[willow haven]

i found them pretty good

[wispy fossil]

Dope, thanks ❤️

[willow haven]

flurry jab is just kreygasm

[wispy fossil]

Really is

then if you can get 30% or higher attackspeed from hermes its true chaos

[willow haven]

my first pb was with flurry and triple jab

hell yeah

[wispy fossil]

pb?

[willow haven]

personal best

[wispy fossil]

ah

[willow haven]

14 minutes 😛

[wispy fossil]

whoa!

my best is 22

[willow haven]

i was like "no way i can top that"

every run these days is sub 15

[wispy fossil]

I don't know how you even go that fast

[willow haven]

you'll be going fast soon™️

[wispy fossil]

must be using super meta builds

[willow haven]

i guess?

[wispy fossil]

they have heat on?

[willow haven]

ask @limber cloak for the dankest builds

yeah

[wispy fossil]

hmmmm

[willow haven]

you'll be able to ez clear 20ish heat if you have around 100 clears

[wispy fossil]

I'm working on clearing heat 8 rn

[willow haven]

good luck!

what pacts are you running?

[wispy fossil]

uhhhhh lets see

[willow haven]

i think it's good to get used to forced overtime 1, middle management(?) and tight deadline 2 for the long con

[wispy fossil]

7 min timer, one level of enemy damage up, 1 of enemy count up, a level of that bosses get new moves thing, and I can't remember what else

[willow haven]

and extreme measures 2 actually speeds the run up a bit because the hydra heads are closer together

yeah i guess that's pretty good

i would replace the more enemies with middle management

because it kinda increases the time too

[wispy fossil]

true

[willow haven]

oh and forced overtime also makes enemies spawn quicker!

[wispy fossil]

That's very good to know!

[willow haven]

yepyep, some pacts are really beneficial for speed

[wispy fossil]

I'll definitely use that then

[willow haven]

good luck!

[wispy fossil]

thanks!

[wispy fossil]

When using ice wine upgrading trippy shots damage increases ice wines damage right?

I would assume

[hard briar]

is chthonic vitality actually that useless or does it add+3 to your max hp?

[coral temple]

It's actually that useless

[vague hearth]

Cthonic vitality?

Is that the "heal 3 health every room" perk?

[coral temple]

Yup

[vague hearth]

It's

Biggest selling point is that it's not nothing

[dusky drum]

i like it ngl

just a nice heal

[limber cloak]

It's not useless at all wtf are yall on about

[vague hearth]

I like it as well

[dusky drum]

but for me its at 2 since hell mode 😎

[vague hearth]

It's consistent healing

[limber cloak]

You barely get any health from dark regen, especially if youre still farming titans blood

3 health per chamber is a lot, especially in styx

[vague hearth]

But it does not hold up with higher heat

[limber cloak]

Neither does dark regen tbh

but yeah

Things that heal in general arent that good at high heat

Because of LC

[vague hearth]

Good point

[hard briar]

the heal on dark regen atleast can be increased with boons

[limber cloak]

yeah but you get like 3 darkness chambers in total

[dusky drum]

chthonic vital can too

[limber cloak]

Which you should be avoiding, if anything

[static ibex]

Dark regen is great for high heat since bosses drop huge darkness piles

[hard briar]

sometimes the bosses have it as a reward and it heals me almost to full after each boss

[limber cloak]

Yeah but high heat needs LC4

And dark regen neither cthonic vitality work there

[static ibex]

Depends how high you're going

[dusky drum]

honestly i never play past the lc1 hell mode req because it scares me

[limber cloak]

Unless you're doing 16 heat, then i guess its fine

[static ibex]

Worked for me to beat 32

[hard briar]

how bout that aspect of guan yu heal

[limber cloak]

guan yu's healing is eh

Unless you get quick spin/massive spin, its rarely worth it as a main attack source

You just do it in between enemy spawns if you're low health

[static ibex]

Better off getting sword/fist health bump

[lime jolt]

Neither holds up high heat because lc4

But imo dark regen is better

[vague hearth]

I keep forgetting about lc tbh

[mighty ermine]

they actually interact unfavorably tbh. one of flurry jab's greatest strengths lies in dash-strike spamming with pretty much no delay between that and some jabs right after. serrated point makes it so flurry jab can no longer do this

flurry and serrated are both good but generally you do not want both at the same time

[wispy fossil]

that's what I was thinking

[gusty rapids]

the way it kinda lines up is that flurry > flurry + serrated > serrated

imo

if you get serrated first, then flurry second isnt a bad option

but you want to avoid serrated if you get flurry first

[visual jungle]

guys i cant math ... is concentrated volley or relentless volley better for chiron?

its relentless right...?

[ripe flume]

I am also curious ^

[dusky drum]

depends on the boon on it tbh

[visual jungle]

ok i did math!!

if base dmg is 27, the effects are same

[dusky drum]

generally id say relentless since just getting 4 more is good especially if youre running dire misfortune

[visual jungle]

but if base dmg is > 27, then relentless is better

[dusky drum]

and concentrated is good for like arte for example since it adds 3 to the base

[visual jungle]

idk what base dmg is tho

[dusky drum]

the base is 10 per arrow

[visual jungle]

this is a good point

[dusky drum]

so like concentrated is good for high damage like aphro/arte and relentless is better for curses like doom/hangover/chill

thats my take :3

but being able to get both is also pog

[visual jungle]

both is very pog for chiron!!

thank u i shall pick relentless

im using poseidon special tho cuz im not doing a particular build hah

I just saw Big Number and was like "good"

[dusky drum]

hehe nice

[dusky drum]

dont we all tho

[toxic river]

2 duo boons are presented to me rn: stubborn roots and crystal clarity

which should i pick

[dusky drum]

stubborn

crystal clarity is eh

unless youre doing a cast setup

in which take crystal

[toxic river]

i rly like crystal clarity

but tbf i'm doing a run with malphon and i suck w it

so healing might be better

[dusky drum]

i see that choice as a safe net vs. damage

and i prefer safe net since im bad at the game

[toxic river]

is there a chance that i could get it again

like in the styx or something

[dusky drum]

yeaa

as long as you have the reqs it can always show up

like ive been offered lightning rod 3 times in one run

and i never took it

[toxic river]

oh my god i suck with the twin fistsssssssssssssssssssssssss

[lime jolt]

@pearl rain the guan yu special pierces and you don’t have to retrieve it

Charged skewer gives let’s you charge it for a max of 200% damage

[turbid needle]

Whats a good weapon for Aphrodite builds ?

[robust anchor]

nemesis or arthur sword or zag shield or zag bow or hestia rail

[dusky drum]

essentially any bow, nem and arthur, i feel like it also works with any shield tbh, and yea hestia but putting it on special isnt bad either

she can work with just about anything tbh

[turbid needle]

im not very good with aphrodite :(

but i wanna try

Ill try with nemesis

[upbeat gyro]

you cant get duo boons in trial of the gods, right?

[slim lynx]

nope

[robust anchor]

no

[lime jolt]

No

[slim lynx]

you can get legendaries though

[lime jolt]

Sadly not

Ye

[lime jolt]

Ye

[upbeat gyro]

inch resting

[slim lynx]

bone apple tea

[static karma]

So how does yarn of Ariadne and Eurydice nectar affect rarity exactly?

Not clear on that exactly and not sure if this question goes here

[merry ivy]

what goes great with fists w/ aspect of talos?

[coral cave]

Poseidon special is fun

[dusky drum]

you can go heavy knuckle aphro/arte

i heard that was neatt

hated it myself tho but eh, its just my opinion

[covert spade]

So I'm still trying to beat the game at 0 heat with all weapons, but I just can't get the Sword to work for me. As soon as I get to the final boss, I just die. The worst part is I'm not terrible at dodging, but trying to deal damage with a weapon that has no range is just off to me. How do I win with this thing?

I've only won with base Shield.

[dusky drum]

a lot of being good(i dont mean this in a negative way). sword is easy to learn, but hard as hell to master. You need to get good at timing special, dodging attacks, and just being smooth. in terms of builds, do what feels good. it works with just about anything

and do you have aspects??

because then i can give you specific builds

[covert spade]

I have the first 3.

[frail schooner]

here’s a tip: use your empty dashes to dodge hits

you don’t have to actually move out of the spin, you can just dash through it

[covert spade]

Also I may-or-may-not have traded 5 ambrosia for 5 blood to upgrade the Zagreus aspect out of desperation.

[dusky drum]

ummmmm, nemesis aspect is good with like aphro/arte attack and whatever on special(i like zeus tbh). posiedon sword is good with aphro/athena/arte/zeus cast

and just build around that :3

but feel free to experiment

[covert spade]

Hey, a start is a start.

Oh, wait, what's the best Hammer upgrades to choose?

I'm thinking Hoard Sword is more harm than good in the long run.

[burnt breach]

hoard sword can be good if you plan the run around it from the start

[dusky drum]

^^

but to me i always go for shadow slash, double nova, big nova, wave

and like

thats about it

not a fan of many other sword aspects

[burnt breach]

i prefer zag aspect with hoard sword, and flurry slash just for big number

[covert spade]

Violently jots down notes

[burnt breach]

if you can get some extra obol boons you're set

[covert spade]

Like Side Hustle.

[burnt breach]

yeah, and chaos can help a lot

Poseidon too

[covert spade]

So what's the general rule on Chaos?

[burnt breach]

i pretty much always take chaos unless I need the health or he can't really significantly help my run, like with dash only

[covert spade]

Like I know how it works, but when is it a bad time to stab yourself for pain and then a boon?

[misty turret]

Take the plunge. You won't die. i wouldn't risk it before bosses but i usually take it if i'm not dying for hp

[burnt breach]

the good usually far outweighs the bad

[misty turret]

inb4 -hp on attack, -hp on special, -hp on attack boons

reasons why i use fated persuasion now

[dusky drum]

and for chaos keep in mind where you are in the area

dont take it when youre close to a boss

hes best as soon as you enter the area

[burnt breach]

i pretty much always use persuasion so if there's a downside i just really can't live with i can reroll

i don't usually take it before heroes but with lernie and furies i do

[manic willow]

I heard crush shot is good for hera, any other advice?

[opal lodge]

snow burst also good

mirage shot also good

[manic willow]

Sounds cool

[opal lodge]

it is

[manic willow]

Any duos to aim for?

[opal lodge]

not really

smoldering if zeus is forced into the pool

[manic willow]

I see

[opal lodge]

hera is very flexible

[manic willow]

That’s good to know

[opal lodge]

you basically only need crush shot and poms

snow burst is good for QoL AoE damage

[left wyvern]

Just got 7 casts on a hera run

Very easy weapon to use

Because any cast ×3 is busted

[manic willow]

Haha yeah

[static karma]

Is explosive shot straight up a bad hammer on Rama? I tried it after not having seen it in a long time and charge time felt long

or do I just need to get used to it/not full charge

[slim lynx]

nah

it just sucks

[coral cave]

Doesn't suck actually

Just makes rama a melee weapon essentially

It's actually pretty good

[slim lynx]

how can it possibly make up for atrociously slow charge

[coral cave]

Dash strikes are a thing yknow

[robust anchor]

i feel like when people are talking about bow, dash strikes already implied

[slim lynx]

dash strikes with rama explosive shot are also extremely slow

what's your point

[manic willow]

I never bow dash strike

[coral cave]

did you not see the part where i said it makes rama a melee weapon

[slim lynx]

how does that help

[coral cave]

you make up for the slow chargeup by just getting close to the enemies

[manic willow]

Close shots

[coral cave]

the damage output is very high

[manic willow]

I imagine if close up hammer it gets even stronger

[slim lynx]

so twin/triple but worse

[turbid needle]

I actually choked a 32 Heat run today with both Triple and Point-Blank Shots.

[manic willow]

D:

[coral cave]

explosive + point blank is a good strat

[turbid needle]

Well, Twin lets you play with some range.

[manic willow]

Am I just unlucky to have still never gotten cursed slash after loads of runs with the sword?

I just want to finish the prophacy

[turbid needle]

Just unlucky.

[manic willow]

:(

[turbid needle]

Unless you've literally only taken Arthur.

[slim lynx]

it's not that good anyways

[manic willow]

Yeah but,,, prophacy

[slim lynx]

arthur can still get cursed

it's just really bad

[turbid needle]

I'm thinking Flurry.

Cursed + Flurry is actually quite strong, especially on Zag.

[manic willow]

Also I just unlocked beowulf myself, any tips??

Should I upgrade it before use? What boons should I aim for?

[turbid needle]

If Infernal Soul, Passion Flare (I think that's what Aphrodite's Cast is called with Beowulf). If Stygian Soul, Trippy Flare.

[slim lynx]

poseidon is very good

arty can also work but not very consistent

[manic willow]

Sounds good!!

[slim lynx]

trippy is strong and has a lot of upgradability but basically needs +1 cast from chaos or fully loaded or you basically will get nothing short of an underwhelming run

[turbid needle]

I feel like Hunter's Flare needs like, at least another consistent 15% crit chance (up to 1-in-4) to be reliable.

[slim lynx]

definitely go for scint feast + zeus t2s

[manic willow]

T2s?

[slim lynx]

tier 2 boons

[manic willow]

I’oh I see

[slim lynx]

like double strike or static discharge

[turbid needle]

That combo does specifically require Flourish, Dash, or Aid, which aren't necessarily the most optimal.

[slim lynx]

ice wine is a decent choice but the enemy is already dead by the time the chill really does anything for you

[manic willow]

You are already dead

[turbid needle]

Especially for an Aspect that doesn't provide native damage bonuses, removing the possibility for Hades' Aid sounds less than ideal.

I actually really dislike Ice Wine based on the <5 attempts at Beo/Hera builds I've tried.

[slim lynx]

i find zeus' aid to be a really good choice for beo trippy flare

[manic willow]

Thak u :)

[turbid needle]

The delay that designed to balance the hit-on-click properties of Ice Wine really interferes with the normally-instant nature of the two Aspects.

[slim lynx]

it can net you scint feast and does a lot of damage on its own given you're constantly bullrushing

[turbid needle]

That's true, and based on your name you've probably ran more Beowulf than I have, now that I'm thinking about it.

[mellow jetty]

There's keepsake opportunity cost too

Dad just gives you his crest to bait you into tanking 5 more hits from him

Same reason im kinda over trying shackle/hestia/ap2 as a high heat strat

Im sure better players than me can make that work but i need my acorn lol

[sour temple]

So Demeter fists, any First aspect really - what is good to put on the attack other than Zeus?

[limber cloak]

the highest roll build with dem fists, or any fists for that matter, is merciful end

you get ares on the attack, athena on special

get merciful end

get athena on dash too

then kill everything within like ~0.5 seconds

also aim for greatest reflex with this build. Hyper Sprint + Rush Delivery works too

[sour temple]

Yeah that's not very reliable

[limber cloak]

yeah, its a high roll really

[sour temple]

I'm asking just for the attack boon, without requiring a specific build

[limber cloak]

dio works well too

you could aim for low tolerance with aphro on dash

and curse of nausea

and splitting headache

all the good dio duos, basically

[sour temple]

Dio is not much damage and your attack after the 5th a wasted

[limber cloak]

i cleared 32 heat with dio on dem

its pretty decent imo

[sour temple]

I'll keep that in mind

[limber cloak]

artic blast dem is pretty good too

with dem on attack and special too

and aim for arctic blast

[sour temple]

but I'm asking for which attack boon are good on fists in general, not with duos/legendaries

[limber cloak]

arctic blast isnt a legendary lol

[sour temple]

Is artic blast really worth it on fist attack

[limber cloak]

athena attack can work, but again, not much dmg

[sour temple]

it is not that much damage for 10 hits

[limber cloak]

the best builds are just zeus and ME, after that youre not going to get much dmg from anyone

[slim lynx]

divine strike + deadly flourish + deadly reversal is pretty great

[limber cloak]

They dont want duos lol

Just attack/spesh

[slim lynx]

deadly reversal is still great

and you might as well take it anyways since you already got the prereqs

[coral temple]

Imagine taking a Chaos boon and forgetting that the boss is coming up for the millionth time

[slim lynx]

inferno bombs on boss

[dusky drum]

lol imagine taking chaos

erebus > chaos change my mind

[coral temple]

Oh no, how will I go on

[lime jolt]

I have ruined so many cast runs by taking chaos right before the boss and taking something like don't attack on hera bow

And all of these happened before lernie

[dusky drum]

hence why i refuse chaos half of the time

and the fact at like 32 heat i cant really sacrifice that much hp

[slim lynx]

i almost died to lernie on 32 heat with beo because of that

i wasn't willing to use my special on td3 so screw it, embrace the chaos

[daring mango]

I only take chaos when I haven't encountered the middle boss yet

to make sure I finish the curse before taking on the boss

[honest wing]

the fact that chaos curses can't actually kill you

so you just whack around with 1 hp

and if you're able to not take any hits you can just vibe

[slim lynx]

it was stressful but elysium went fine surprisingly

[sour temple]

Question about using Meg.

What's the best way to use her especially against bosses when you Damage Control 2?

Do you call right at the start or do you havet to clear the DC hearts first to be sure?

[lime jolt]

I die in elysium after that because I’m at 1 health

[lime jolt]

I do meg and then rush to take off dc

[daring mango]

just to be sure I just wait for the really laggy moves before I use meg

when it comes to bosses

[lime jolt]

Without dc meg is very easy to hit

[dusky drum]

tbh i like than more for the extra 1k compared to meg

also than is my husband

but i always forget i have it :/

so it never gets used until like hades

[lime jolt]

I like than but it’s very inconsistent imo

If you know how to use meg right it hits everything

[sour temple]

I used to use Than, but after too many whiffs decided to play it safe.

last run when I very close to killing Hades I whiffed on Meg and I'm not sure if he just moved out of her range or it was the DC

So with DC 2 is it safe to use it right at the start of the fight?

or should you wait for a better opportunity?

[lime jolt]

If you use meg at the start at hades it’s fine

As long as you’re using a fast attacking weapon with dc(you should be) you’ll be fine

[slim lynx]

why would you even just immediately use meg with dc on

[sour temple]

Chaos curse that reduses your dash for 4 encounters - whatever

Next encounter- MM Megagorgon and Mega Doom stone - instant death

[spiral badge]

I’m on the opposite end

Bouldy till LC4, then meg

Team health n money

[sour temple]

I used to use Boldy but am running LC4 now so go for that

only way to assure healing

[spiral badge]

Yeah LC4 is a rip for bouldy. Big part of the reason I rarely touch it lol

[hot crane]

How does Hoarding Slash factor into the damage calc?

Is it additive to the base damage before multipliers?

Or added with other multipliers?

[spiral badge]

This game likes to keep things nice and neat and separated

Which is another way of saying it likes to do things additively

So hoarding slash is likely its own additive multiplier on its own track that gets thrown in the blender calculation at the end like all the rest

[hot crane]

Bummer

[spiral badge]

the only real exception to the additive-linear / multiplicative-nonlinear scaling pattern in this game is crits

To my knowledge

[hot crane]

Where the damage is multiplied after every other modifier is added?

[spiral badge]

I may be slightly misusing those terms

But crits are the only things in this game that will make base damage numbers grow outrageously, exponentially

everything else is a conga line of Base + (base x modifier) + (base x modifier) = damage

Ad nauseam

[hot crane]

Is hoarding Slash good on Crit builds?

[spiral badge]

to my knowledge, again

anything that beefs up base damage is good on crit builds

So the answer is technically yes

But hoarding just isn’t that good

Most sword hammers are kind of out-and-out bad, sorry to break your heart

[hot crane]

I've played with it a few times before and I don't like it

[spiral badge]

next to their bretheren in the pantheon of things

sword easily has the weakest hammer kit of all 6 weapons

:((

[hot crane]

I'm used to it, I'm trying to do 32 Nemesis and got it as an option

[spiral badge]

For sure

Anything that touches base is automatically good for crit

Just words to live by

[hot crane]

Sweet

Good thing my hammer was Hoarding, piercing wave, and +300 armor

/s

[spiral badge]

yeah at least you got 2 decent ones there

wave isn’t actively terrible and armor shredding is universally good for every weapon

[hot crane]

I took wave for some range and chip, it was tough though, Elysium armor is brutal

[spiral badge]

I just try to think on the bright side and tell myself that even though wave doesn’t interact with many useful things, its at least another attack’s worth of damage generated, which is an effective +100% base damage, even if its utility is low outside of that

[hot crane]

Kinda just hoping my Crits will be good enough for then but my first two Artis were only common attack buffs, so I hope she decides to be nicer next time

Good way to look at that

[spiral badge]

yeah. Even with common boons crits should still give you a fighting chance

Nemesis artemis is a known quantity, inside and out. That’s something of a strength of artemis’ kit. Even with common boons, her ability to increase rate of crits themselves can do a lot of carrying

[hot crane]

Wdym by known quantity?

[spiral badge]

Just that it has no tricks that are not obvious. It’s simple, and thoroughly robust in its output. What you see is what you get, and if you feed it at least the basics of what it wants your going to see a reliable reflection in performance

Your rarity isn’t going to be a run killer, because that’s something that nemesis’ well-established strengths can shrug off somewhat

That’s all I mean. Known quantity

[hot crane]

Ah, okay. I've had a lot of struggles with Nemesis Crits compared to some of the more obviously OP builds but it's a blast to play

Straightforward to a fault

[spiral badge]

nemesis is a textbook glass cannon

Go look in the dictionary and there’ll be its picture

Extraordinary damage output capability, but very unsafe. So it can feel weaker in practice than other powerful artemis builds sometimes

[hot crane]

The only time I've liked Artemis attack boons was on Zag bow

[spiral badge]

That’s pretty much specifically what I was talking about lol

[hot crane]

I know some people like it on Excalibur

[spiral badge]

Zag bow = ranged nemesis

Love it

[hot crane]

But Aphro seems more consistent

[spiral badge]

excal is great with it too. Hestia loves artemis as well

Excal loves aphro because damage reduction is its thing, so point for aphro there

[hot crane]

I haven't won with Exa yet tho so maybe I should try

[spiral badge]

For your first run through, put zeus attack on zag or eris rail and mow the game down

[hot crane]

I just force Aphro on most high base damage

[spiral badge]

Ahhh, see its a balance

[hot crane]

Lol, the Rail is nuts

[spiral badge]

Faster hitting weapons have lower base damage, so base % gods like aphro and athena mean less to them

[hot crane]

Already cleared 32 with Luci and and Zag

[spiral badge]

Whereas curse gods like zeus and dio and (kind of) ares mean more

The opposite for slower weapons

+50% attack damage means a hell of a lot more on excal than it does zag rail

[hot crane]

Ye, Dio's such a weird one. Feels good with Chrion and sometimes rail, but on most things id rather have Zeus

[spiral badge]

dio is a weird spot

But he has outrageous synergies

So certain builds of his can get really bonkers

Chiron and zeus shield come to mind

also his cast is broken on a whole other level, but thats a separate conversation

And his call is just s-tier period

[hot crane]

Huh, didn't realize his call was well regarded. Always feels mediocre to me

[spiral badge]

no no

His and zeus are the two highest DPS calls in the game

But the secret is to never use them at full charge

The second you’ve got a bar to spare let that isht fly

[hot crane]

I guess that makes more sense than full bar since of the hangover cap

[limber cloak]

Samee, i slept on it for so long

Until i learnt the truth

[hot crane]

But why Zeus?

[spiral badge]

Same reason

[limber cloak]

I was like "no way its that good right?"

[spiral badge]

Outrageous burst damage over a short time

Really, reaaaaally adds up

Zeus is slightly behind dio on paper

But both are s tier

[limber cloak]

i thought you mentioned me there

But yeah

[spiral badge]

As is posiedon too, secretly

[limber cloak]

Dio call gets even more insane if you already have a dio build and have/are aiming for things like curse of nausea and low tolerance

whats the worst call in the game?

[spiral badge]

Posiedon’s is the secret 3rd one-bar s tier

[limber cloak]

I guess arty is bad for anything that isnt a boss

[spiral badge]

But you need his t2 for it

[limber cloak]

I generally hate aphro call

[spiral badge]

But once you have it it’s wonderful

Dem call worst

Imo

[limber cloak]

Oh yeah i forgot demeter was a god in the game

[spiral badge]

Aphro call is still a meg’s worth of damage at common rarity

Great value pick

Amazing value pick, really

[limber cloak]

Only for bosses though

[spiral badge]

One of my favorites in the game

Yeah I divide my calls into 2 categories

[limber cloak]

Aphro call and arty call are literally useless in rooms

[spiral badge]

The spammables and the boss-finishers

Aphro’s is definitely the latter

As is arty

But you have to admit they are excellent for that

[proven osprey]

Aphro's call is carrying me through Elysium

[spiral badge]

2500 at common rarity is noooooothing to sneeze at

[proven osprey]

Charm is an amazing damage source

[limber cloak]

Arty call is actually useful if you forget to like chase down a wavemaker throughout a room in asphodel

[limber cloak]

Huh? Ive never gotten it to work well

[spiral badge]

maybe ares call 2nd worst?

[limber cloak]

Nah, ares has good dmg

[proven osprey]

You gotta try more

[spiral badge]

Aphro call is a wonky-but-great get out of jail free card with smouldering air

[limber cloak]

Charm just lasts so short usually idk

Enemies never hit each other

[spiral badge]

Saves your bacon a ton in boss fights

[limber cloak]

Oh defo

[proven osprey]

They do, usually they one shot each other

[limber cloak]

Huh

Guess ive been sleeping on aphro call

[proven osprey]

It's also really good because Asterius scary

I'm super happy to have her call at 50 heat

[spiral badge]

Like I said, I love it for its value

[proven osprey]

yeah it takes no rarity nor pom to be efficient

[spiral badge]

Trash aphro roll but there’s a common call slot I can fill that rewards me with a nighty-night boss button? Yes please

One of the few boons I actually consider relatively better at common than epic in the value chain lol

[proven osprey]

it looks great when purple

[limber cloak]

Honestly the color is half the reason why i get heroic boons

[spiral badge]

Said differently, I’d rather have purple land on any single aphro boon except her call

Because it’s just that good at trash rarity

[limber cloak]

Ares boons look so good in heroic

Just gleaming wonderfully in my boon pool

[limber cloak]

Purple empty inside lmao

[spiral badge]

keep ps online forever, weird flex aphro but ok :\

I think thats empty inside at least lol

[limber cloak]

Lol

[hot crane]

1bar Zeus is doing work, thanks for the info

[spiral badge]

👍🏻👍🏻

If you’re on PC look into the mod that forces the Call Ready! Notification to appear every time a bar fills

Big, biiiig QoL improvement for one-bar calls

[hot crane]

I bounce between switch and pc

[spiral badge]

same

Well fwiw that’s a big help for the PC side, and getting the kit to install and run mods is quite simple, relatively speaking

About 3 downloads, 1 install of python for scripting, and about 3 new folders to make in the right spot and you’re ready to install and run whatever you please

[spiral badge]

Don’t let the word python scare you btw. You install it, then the only time you touch it is to activate a pre-written script that’s handed to you, whose function is to search for the mods you’ve placed and stitch them into and out-of the game as you tell it to by placing and removing said mod folders

[hot crane]

By the sounds of it I've handled scarier :p

[spiral badge]

It really is quite basic to set up

[nocturne raven]

So.. I just learned of the glory that is Tidal Dash and Razor Shoals. Think I cleared a Styx chamber in a fraction of a second.

[vague hearth]

I need to try that out

Also best aspect for a call build?

I was thinking eris rail might be good for the 75% damage increase

Or for stalling for the favour over time, hidden sword

Actually

I wanna see how nuts poseidon call can get with the extra boss damage boon and eris rail

[lime jolt]

Razor shoals is meh imo

Its good on bosses and stuff

Yeah

Persuasion

Persuasion is almost always better

You should always have dark foresight on

Lol

[turbid needle]

For building Legendaries and Duos, take Foresight, God's Legacy, and Fated Persuasion.

Foresight is arguably the most important part of this, you struggle to get specific gods not already in that run's seed without it or Fated Authority.

But, taking Authority can let a God's offering really mess up a run.

[lime jolt]

I don’t know when you would ever not take dark foresight

Its so good

[turbid needle]

I didn't think much of it at 10%, but 20% is nutty.

[opal lodge]

obligatory dark foresight is busted

[spiral badge]

Little far back but the specific answer is fists with ares dash and support fire

If it’s a call build you want, nothing on the board builds call charge faster than raw, unyielding ROF

Damage dealt and received do something, but total hits landed is far and away the best call charge generator. So with a call build, you want to spec for absolute maximum hits on target

You’d be shocked how fast fist/ares dash can build call charge, even with no boosting boons on deck. Have fun

[vague hearth]

Huh

I'll keep that in mind, thanks

[serene zealot]

Just started a lucifer run, not sure which hammer is best out of the following.

Triple Bomb, Eternal Chamber, Triple Beam

What would y'all pick?

[spiral badge]

Oof

I always hard-pick triple bomb with Lucy

Eternal might be fun for maximum meme but triple bomb represents a biiiig, immediate DPS spike

[serene zealot]

Yeah, I'm leaning towards those 2 as options, Triple beam seems decent but not the best

[dusky drum]

eternal gang eternal gang

[spiral badge]

Eternal is my fun choice

Lucy that you never let off the trigger is very nice Lucy to play with

[serene zealot]

Would EC be good with sea storm? That's what I'm trying for

[spiral badge]

Though the gold name brigade will tell you that losing the ramping damage sucks

Yeah sea storm would be exactly what I’d take ec for

[lime jolt]

Eternal is poopoo gang

[serene zealot]

I'll give ec a try then

[spiral badge]

I see both

Do bear in mind that in the future 3-bomb opens up triple Zeus traps which are verynice-ah

But ec is going to be very fun for you

[serene zealot]

I'll keep that in mind

[dusky drum]

youre poopoo gang >:(

[lime jolt]

[cloud vault]

Triple Bomb is the best hammer

[sour temple]

Also for building Call Crystal Beam works very well because of the RoF

[cloud vault]

By a big margin

[sour temple]

Triple bomb is crazy on mouse

[serene zealot]

Welp, died to Theseus, but sea storm was fun

[dense ginkgo]

what exactly is the difference between the og special and blitz disc?

[dense ginkgo]

ahem no it's hazard bomb

hazard bomb hestia is bestia

[vague hearth]

Triple bomb is legit insane

[lime jolt]

triple bomb is the best on lucy

and piercing hestia is bestia

[muted canopy]

Woahh

Ares cast with Aspect of Beowulf makes a giant freaking blade rift

[vague hearth]

Huh

The poseidon sword can really make some insane runs huh

Just went through the entirety of the EM4 fightn in about a minute thanks to demeter cast

[turbid needle]

woa

[lime jolt]

Try demeter cast on achilles

[stuck basalt]

call that meme beam supreme

[vague hearth]

Zagreus, also known as the Dibison from zoids

[sour temple]

I messed around with macros on my mouse and tried to find the timing in ms for different functions of the weapons like powershots

If anyone is interested I could share

[dusky drum]

gy sucks change my mind

[lime jolt]

I call in my summon @proven osprey

[dusky drum]

its not a good weapon tho >:3

[lime jolt]

He is probably asleep rn but when he wakes up he will rise to defend guan yu

[cold coyote]

it says he's offline

[lime jolt]

Yeah ik

He’s probably asleep rn

[dusky drum]

the spin attack is only cool since its ranged and even then thats why the spear has a special, and saying the special is epic and makes it good means that any weapon that has good points on both attacks is instantly better

[cold coyote]

so why is guan stu(pid) good?

[dusky drum]

its not

[lime jolt]

Special pierces and is non retrievable

I got a very easy 40 clear with it

[cold coyote]

||i know|| shush

[dusky drum]

normal spear also pierces

and it being retrievable is ez backstab

[lime jolt]

But it’s not non retrievable

And it has a huge hitbox

[dusky drum]

id rather have ez backstab

[cold coyote]

if you want to stand around and do nothing for 3 seconds

[dusky drum]

also dont get me started on how slow it is

[lime jolt]

Yes don’t use the attack

The combo is special, dash strike x2

[cold coyote]

only spin???

it's even slower

[dusky drum]

yea dont use the weapons move since its bad

[lime jolt]

Spin while enemies spawning

[cold coyote]

so once every 30 seconds i get to sit around and spin

[lime jolt]

Someone help plz

The guan yu hate is real

[cold coyote]

because it's not good

[dusky drum]

gy hate is facts

its not a good aspect

[cold coyote]

Hades aspect Supremacy.

[dusky drum]

literally any other spear is better

[dusky drum]

yeaaa i also like achilles for cast viability :3

[lime jolt]

Ok i hope your trolling

[dusky drum]

im not

[cold coyote]

ppfffffft

[dusky drum]

thats genuinely how i feel

gy is worst spear aspect

id rather use zag aspect

[lime jolt]

Nephi I see you lurking idk if you think guan yu is good but if you do think so, help

[cold coyote]

YES

[flat garden]

its ok

[dusky drum]

at least with zag aspect the special gets faster

[fervent elbow]

If you actually learn to play GYY, it's definitely not that bad

[flat garden]

i'd rather choose achilles but it's better than zag or hades

[lime jolt]

THANK YOU

Wait

No

Yes kinda

[flat garden]

guan yu yu

[dusky drum]

"not that bad"

still bad

[fervent elbow]

I can understand the -50% is harsh

[lime jolt]

But people just need to git gud

[flat garden]

that goes for all the hidden aspects really

even trash fists

you just need to stop getting hit

[cold coyote]

What does soulja boy call "Guan Yu?"

[flat garden]

its pretty bad if youre starting out and dont really have a hang of the movement

because the healing isnt all that good if you keep getting hit for 40 damage per room

[dusky drum]

but like, wheres the objective evidence

[flat garden]

but once you get used to dodging and whatever

[lime jolt]

I got a 40 clear with it second try

[flat garden]

it's a hard hitting weapon

and definitely a good one imo

[dusky drum]

i got a 32 clear with zeus shield having only used it once

[cold coyote]

"worst spear aspect"

[lime jolt]

Well 40>32

[dusky drum]

im sure i could do 40 too i just havent tried since i wanna get 32 each weapon

[dusky drum]

also "2nd try"

[lime jolt]

I’m just waiting for astaos to show up tommorow

[dusky drum]

if it was so good that shouldve been first try

[lime jolt]

My first try i made it to hades

[flat garden]

dude

seriously

[dusky drum]

get gud then

[flat garden]

weird convo

wake me up when there's another instance of discord plays hades

[cold coyote]

I don't supposed someone is willing to ask somebody who made the aspect?

[lime jolt]

What?

[dusky drum]

doesnt amir make balance choices and stuff

like hes the game designer

[cold coyote]

There you go.

[dusky drum]

i could be wrong

[cold coyote]

Put on your big boy pants and do it, because i'm too scared to.

[dusky drum]

yea im good

[lime jolt]

I know nephi has done a 45 guan yu so ask them how bad it was

And tail has done 50

[dusky drum]

ok but anything in this game is viable if youre good enough

[sour temple]

lets tag Amir and ask him why designed Guan Yu like that

[dusky drum]

we cant look at the player, we need to look at objectivity of the weapon

[lime jolt]

I agree

[dusky drum]

compare it to other weapons

[lime jolt]

Not you too

[cold coyote]

Was this heat invested in Jury summons and lasting consequences or extreme measures?

[lime jolt]

Who me?

[dusky drum]

TRUEEEEE

where was heat

but again thats being stingy by player

and not by weapon stuff

[sour temple]

What time is it in the US

[dusky drum]

6:57

[lime jolt]

8:57

Cst

[dusky drum]

pst for me

[cold coyote]

pst

[dusky drum]

im in nevada

[cold coyote]

for me

[sour temple]

AM or PM

[dusky drum]

pm

[lime jolt]

Pm

[cold coyote]

i'm in washington

pm

[lime jolt]

I’m in missouri

[dusky drum]

hehe

missouri

[cold coyote]

ugh i hate missouri

[lime jolt]

[dusky drum]

lmaooo

never been so i dont have an opinion on missouri

[lime jolt]

Nevada is cool

I like it

[dusky drum]

im specifically in vegas 😎

pretty epic

[lime jolt]

Swag gang

[dusky drum]

only 15

[cold coyote]

nevada is pretty cool

[dusky drum]

cant even do the fun stuff

[lime jolt]

I’ve stayed in vegas twice

[cold coyote]

i just need to go on the strip

[lime jolt]

I’ve been to the strip twice

I hate it

[dusky drum]

we getting off topic :3

back to gy hate

b a d w e a p o n

[lime jolt]

Yes away from missouri hate

[cold coyote]

yes

[lime jolt]

But not towards guan yu

[sour temple]

bad weapon, gets to titan blood

[dusky drum]

ok does anyone here have the gall to @ amir??

[cold coyote]

he's not online...

[lime jolt]

Someone did that in victory boasting

They dedicated the run to amir

[sour temple]

The Aspect of the Bean Curd!

[dusky drum]

thats different since thats a "<3 you" thing while this is "wtf did you do to gy"

[sour temple]

oh no that was Guan Di

[lime jolt]

Lmao

[sour temple]

oh they are the same thing so this applies

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vwi77qlEl9c

[lime jolt]

Lets hate on gilgamesh

That’s a common enemy

[dusky drum]

eh im fine with gilga

dashing is epic

maim is very cool

attack is wider which is nice

[lime jolt]

How can you hate on guan yu but not gilgamesh

[magic rivet]

Gilgamesh doesn't destroy my hands while playing Merciful End so that's nice

[dusky drum]

also auto dashing doesnt break my controller

i prefer dem fists tho

like my hidden list is like rama > beo > gilga > luci > arthur > gy

well

arthur/gy

same lvl ngl

[magic rivet]

Arthur is probably good but it's not my style

[fervent elbow]

Maim effect activates after 4s, so unless you are really slow, foes are already dead

[magic rivet]

It's for bosses isn't it?

[dusky drum]

extra damage output tho

and extra dashes are pog

i prefer it over gy

[lime jolt]

Mine goes rama>beowulf>guan yu>lucy>arthur>gilga

Guan yu and beo are tied

[dusky drum]

at least we can agree on rama and beo

[lime jolt]

Yes

[dusky drum]

gy still garbage tho

[lime jolt]

N o

[magic rivet]

"Git gud"

[lime jolt]

Exactly

[flat garden]

whats gilga

do you mean "extra dashes"

[lime jolt]

Gilgamesh

[flat garden]

greatest reflex 2.0

[dusky drum]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/807047989683683328/815764521045852180/So_about_that.mp4

[lime jolt]

You get extra dashes with it

[flat garden]

the only thing worth using gilga for is dash builds

the maim is so slow

[lime jolt]

Yeah

[flat garden]

you can go td3 on it probably but i personally do not like it

[lime jolt]

Td3 is fine for me but i just don’t really enjoy the weapon

[fervent elbow]

Gilga is slow and the damage output isn't enough for the tradeoff imo

[lime jolt]

^^^

[dusky drum]

gy feels like that tho

[lime jolt]

N o

It’s not slow

Have you heard of a little something called charged skewer?

[dusky drum]

i have

[lime jolt]

Well then

[dusky drum]

have you heard of cast with achilles spear??

[lime jolt]

Hey i love all spears except zag

[dusky drum]

or r a m a with t r i p l e s h o t

[lime jolt]

I just don’t get the hate on guan yu

[limber cloak]

Stealing my joke i see

[lime jolt]

Triple + perfect chefs kiss

[flat garden]

it's called inspiration

[fervent elbow]

With zag spear, i can either go flurry jab or roleplay GY with exploding + charged skewer

[limber cloak]

lol

[dusky drum]

triple + point blank is better imo

[dusky drum]

but the gy roleplay will be faster

[lime jolt]

Twin is more consistent

[limber cloak]

Most people just hate it because they are -50% health and go "bad aspect"

[lime jolt]

Triple is very scary to play

[lime jolt]

Exactly

[dusky drum]

coward

[lime jolt]

Unless if you’re doing 40/45+ heat, healing aint that bad

[flat garden]

the fair frost fair fang flare flash blade thing is fun to use with divine strike

[dusky drum]

you get the same effect with athena on zeus shield

[flat garden]

imagine using athena special on zeus shield

literally worthless damage output

[lime jolt]

Lmao

[flat garden]

even poseidon is better

[limber cloak]

ikr

[lime jolt]

Poseidon is actually a really good special

[flat garden]

i personally dont use it all that much on zeus because it knocks the guys where i dont want them to go

[limber cloak]

I haven't ever tried poseidon zeus shield hmm

[flat garden]

but it is pretty funky

[limber cloak]

Maybe i could go for sea storm

[lime jolt]

I haven’t but I’m talking in general

Seastorm would be cool

[flat garden]

talos poseidon

now that's a weapon

[limber cloak]

super soaker

[lime jolt]

Talos is the most overrated fist

[limber cloak]

Now thats a weapon

[lime jolt]

Change my mind

[lime jolt]

Yessir

[limber cloak]

nah, talos isnt overrated

[flat garden]

ive never gotten sea storm on any of my super soaker runs which sucks

[limber cloak]

i think most people just use dem fists when they unlock it

[lime jolt]

I see so many people rave about talos and I’m sitting over here wondering what’s so great about it

[fervent elbow]

50% dmg

[dusky drum]

same her ngl

[limber cloak]

lol, i hate that enemies get stuck at walls and stuff when i pull them hik

In*

[lime jolt]

Its animation and everything is so slow

[limber cloak]

You cancel its uppercut animation

[lime jolt]

Interesting