shared suffering is cool but unless i get faster charge times i dont like it
#h1-builds-and-combat
fair locust
spiral badge
It’s worth it at high heat though, I promise
spiral badge
You need to have mastered basic bow technique for Rama to mean anything to you. Dash shots are a must as slow as the charge is
fair locust
wanna get to 20 on at least a couple of weapons
im currently at 10ish for two and 3/4 for the rest
spiral badge
But I’m here to tell you, that extra half second of patience to get the Charged Shot is worth a looooot of damage with Rama
spiral badge
It’s what makes Rama into the room evaporator that it is
fair locust
lol
spiral badge
Yeah, work hard on that. It’s rewarding I promise
That said Rama does have some hammers that alleviate the need for charged shots
fair locust
mhm its cause i use aegis quite often
spiral badge
Twin, triple and explosive to a certain extent
fair locust
twin makes my problems with using rama worse unfortunately
spiral badge
Yeah shield let’s you turn your brain off a lot and get away with it. It’s why I love the weapon, but bow demands more careful positioning to make it work well
spiral badge
Esp with Rama you need to lower your heart rate a little
Sounds like you’re in the same boat as me so it may take time
fair locust
yeah i play like a crackhead
spiral badge
It’s all learning
fair locust
im not bad with it, i can make it work
spiral badge
Lean into the patience with Rama
fair locust
its just that i havent seen many builds focused on attack that i find fun
but ill experiment
spiral badge
That extra half second of charging time to achieve a perfect shot is worth a lot more than it seems
I promise
fair locust
i use whatever weapon gives extra darkness usually, so ill get round to it regardless
fair locust
and bow is my most used actually lol
mostly on chiron
so completely different gameplay
fair locust
you're permitted to misspace though
since you only need to land an uncharged shot to kill things
spiral badge
Think on the lessons you use to keep yourself safe there, and try to apply them to finding safe firing spots with Rama
The other thing is, shared suffering is your friend
If it takes finding a dark corner to pop one enemy with a fully charged shot and let the shared damage do it’s thing, that’s what you do
That’s my usual strategy with Rama
spiral badge
Paint the entire room then exclusively wail on the biggest, highest damage enemy in the room
Because by hitting one, you’re hitting all of them
That’s how Rama makes whole rooms evaporate at once with a single charged shot
fair locust
you talk as if i didnt read the aspect description or have it fully upgraded
i have used it for a few runs
spiral badge
Just trying to help :/ it’s my most used bow next to zag
fair locust
yeah ik no bad intentions
just meant that id like to know build suggestions rather than strategies, since i do know how to best use it
spiral badge
Well twin, triple and somewhat explosive shot can get you lots of Rama attack damage without needing a full charge, so maybe try one of them on for size someday
Explosive may be particularly good for you since you like to unga bunga. You’ll never powershot again with it, but it doesn’t matter because the point blank damage with a tiny charge is outrageous at that point
Especially with twin shot alongside it
fair locust
ooh stacking
i tend to be pretty unlucky with hammers but i can pray for that
probably also gonna try artemis on the main attack, see if i can get an epic
spiral badge
Just a warning, explosive will make the charge much worse lol
But the secret is you don’t care anymore
fair locust
spiral badge
And yes, Artemis or anything that increases “white number” damage is great for Rama
Since that’s what shared suffering transmits
Also frankly since you like to unga bunga, I’ll say Rama’s unique hammer isn’t the worst thing around at all
fair locust
whats that
spiral badge
It functions like a built in splash dash that activates on shot release
It’s a concussive blast
spiral badge
So if you’re playing at point blank it lets you bully and wall damage enemies
Much like shield
It’s a CC tool and a wall damage tool, not necessarily direct damage
But it does make shotgun Rama much safer
Since you’re releasing a “get off me” blast every time you let the trigger go
The attack hammers are better but I like that one a lot as a secondary if I get a hammer roll I’m not crazy about
spiral badge
Hot take: Spread Fire Hestia is galaxy brained
Hestia’s biggest problem is what to do with the other 11 bullets. Not only does spread fire retain your sniper shot, it shortens your mag (perfect) and makes your other shots actually mean something with hestia boons (even better)
ember mica
for bow, I automatically use dash strike instead of the base attack basically all the time. Is it worth to teach myself to stand still for a second and use the normal attack?
cunning urchin
@spiral badge you need to manually reload for Hestia. The automatic reload when you empty your clip doesn't load an Empowered Shot. So your mag size doesn't matter.
Top Hestia players mostly just reload after every Empowered Shot.
@ember mica mainly for bosses perhaps, but you'll mostly have Hunter Dash, so your Dash-Strikes will do more damage anyway.
But if you don't have that, charging a regular Attack when a boss phases can be good.
Very minor difference, though.
devout trellis
Depends on which bow
If Rama, yeah, I believe Rama has the highest single hit damage world record
Also Hera, you can’t use Hera without normal attack
spiral badge
<@377952517910429696> you need to manually reload for Hestia. The automatic relo...
True, but in the context of hestia those other 11 bullets are entirely useless. You should absolutely be manually reloading but I think it makes hestia so much more multifaceted because now you have a short range high-damage output source to slice and dice with in melee
If and when you need it
And on top of that everything that hestia loves spread shot loves too, like Artemis and aphro
I tried it on a meme and had my mind blown
Hestia always bored me because it’s single shot and high mag size seem like such a strange and uninspired kit. I think spread shot is actually a uniquely effective band aid for rounding out hestia’s game plan
vale imp
is rounding out an aspect's gameplan really all that effective
spiral badge
I mean the ones that are kind of monopolar yeah
It’s why I like talos heavy knuckle instead of Gilgamesh
A more generally capable kit is its own strength
Same reason ricochet is top tier for hestia
vale imp
i mean, do you do it because you find it more interesting or does it actually make you more effective at clearing rooms and killing bosses?
spiral badge
Rounds out her kit a little by providing some AOE instead of only massive single target
I do it because I have 2 game plans to how to approach a room, rather than shoot reload exclusively
ember mica
<@549012007601438730> mainly for bosses perhaps, but you'll mostly have Hunter D...
thank you!
spiral badge
Shoot reload is still how you play conventionally
But when 10 numbskulls swarm you it’s helpful to have 5 melee attacks in reserve
Whereas the 11 other bullets in stock Hestia’s mag are there for show. They could make it a 1-shot weapon and it wouldn’t fundamentally change hestia, the way it is right now
Diversity is its own strength in gameplay, that’s why I like it
lime jolt
By normal attack I mean between dash striking and just standing still attacking
Why would I normal attack?
Like stand still
spiral badge
The damage is higher pengy
cunning urchin
Why would I normal attack on bow? <@!311477984886521856>
Yes, regular Attack has higher base damage.
lime jolt
How much is the difference?
spiral badge
I only stationary shot when I have time to set it up fwiw. 99/100 times I’m looking for dash shot
hearty elbow
I would still think dash striking has more dps
Yes
Also as enemies tend to gravitate towards your location it's extremely rare you want to be the position you are currently in while you charge a shot
Unfortunately it's a hard habit to unlearn and I'm actively trying to improve at finding places where it's very unsafe to dash before charging lol
devout trellis
Easier to pull off if you have Demeter
dusky drum
https://hades.gamepedia.com/Heart-Seeking_Bow#Statistics
yk how absoloutley ripped does zag have to be to pull the bow back so quickly with that much force
like i was just thinking about it now and just, his arms and torso have to be just jacked
hearty elbow
Zag holds up a shield and all you hear is a "plink" when Asterius charges into it. Asterius is knocked aside and Zag is just chillin'
cunning urchin
Zag can stop a charging a Minotaur with his fist, and Asterius takes the damage.
turbid needle
i have a question, should i build gilgamesh fists for normal attacks or special attacks?
cunning urchin
i have a question, should i build gilgamesh fists for normal attacks or special ...
You can do both.
lime jolt
Dash build
@turbid needle
robust anchor
lost track of my cast guess im playing zag sword for the rest of this chamber 😎
dusky drum
lost track of my cast guess im playing zag sword for the rest of this chamber 😎
hehe lol
ember mica
are there any general guidelines that I should follow when using zeus in a build? Whenever I use him, it feels like I'm underpowered, or I don't know how to utilize his boons properly and in what slot I should aim to use them in
lime jolt
what weapon are you using?
patent pewter
the attack is good with quick rate weapon, take jolted too
dusky drum
yea and if you can get his legendary you just kill
ember mica
I mostly use Chiron bow or Gilgamesh fists
dusky drum
yea gilgamesh isnt the best for it
lime jolt
both arent great for zeus
lime jolt
Chiron can get kinda cheesy with poseidon special and seastorm but otherwise zeus isnt a good option
dusky drum
yea, the cooldown on lightning bolts makes it not work woth chiron
chiron hits too fast for it to work
but stuff like normal fists and rail are great for it
and shield if youre into that
sword is also a solid choice
patent pewter
any tips to not die with sword idk why I'm so bad at 16 heat sword
dusky drum
any tips to not die with sword idk why I'm so bad at 16 heat sword
ummmm, get good
and know enemy attacks and timings
thats really all i can say
not having a ranged option in high heat is garbage
stone escarp
I got curse of longing in the last shop asphodel lmao
just sold it
dusky drum
I got curse of longing in the last shop asphodel lmao
~~just sold it~~
niiiice
stone escarp
is blown kiss really rare or something??
I've only gotten it once in all my runs and it was in styx
dusky drum
is blown kiss really rare or something??
i mean thats what everyone thinks
like ive only gotten it twice
in like 90 runs
and those 2 times i wasnt going for it
fervent elbow
Be sure to have Aphrodite cast
quiet tide
If I have a companion like Battie or Mort, how do they do with armored enemies? Do they only do damage to the armored layer?
patent raven
Chiron can get kinda cheesy with poseidon special and seastorm but otherwise zeu...
The most fun I’ve had in a run so far was spear + Sea Storm + rapid fire + 30% Attack speed.
dusky drum
If I have a companion like Battie or Mort, how do they do with armored enemies? ...
yep
and if you have dc
they hit the dc
it works like normal damage
quiet tide
Ok
patent raven
Does each sister have different HP breaks?
stone escarp
I died lmao
explosive shot on Hera is not so great when you're trying to cast from far away
stone escarp
what's a higher damage output... chiron, or Zag Aspect Hammer Perfect Shot with Aphrodite Attack + Hermes Swift Strike
a good chiron build I mean
opal lodge
zag
chiron is just a worse version of zag bow unless you get mega special hammers
and even then zag with good attack hammers is better
dusky drum
chiron is just a worse version of zag bow unless you get mega special hammers
id beg to differ
opal lodge
ok
dusky drum
i still feel like chiron burst is better
opal lodge
chiron is perhaps a simpler weapon
stone escarp
in my personal opinion I think people just like chiron because it feels really good
dusky drum
what's a higher damage output... chiron, or Zag Aspect Hammer Perfect Shot with ...
and plus you cant really compare a more described build to an ambiguous one
opal lodge
but it is by no means a stronger weapon
stone escarp
but I also will say, anything that has to stack, Chiron will always excell with
stone escarp
such as dire misfortune and hangover and that demeter boon that makes people explode at 10 chills
opal lodge
zag can match damage with good hammer or heart rend
dusky drum
zag can match damage with good hammer or heart rend
so can chiron
opal lodge
its currently the fastest bow on src
dusky drum
and chiron is better with heart rend arguably
opal lodge
what do you mean better?
dusky drum
since all those hits
dusky drum
and getting concentrated volley just akes the crit better
opal lodge
because chiron is arguably the slowest weapon in the game even with those tools
dusky drum
shield would like to speak with you
opal lodge
which shield do you think is slow?
dusky drum
all of em tbh besides beo
opal lodge
zag shield currently is sub 8
chaos wr is. 7:04
meanwhile chiron is sitting nice and pretty in the 8 minute range
stone escarp
I find in my experience that piercing volley carries
with chiron
my damage also felt better with a high level epic heartbreak flourish than it did with deadly flourish + heart rend imo
dusky drum
but i mean tbh what defines "good" in this game
with enough skill and a good enough build anything is good
opal lodge
piercing is the worst of the three special hammers imo
stone escarp
piercing is the worst of the three special hammers imo
but it helps Chiron kill more than 1 thing faster, and also get through the stupid armor faster
opal lodge
"good" has to be defined by parameters
stone escarp
it was really good in styx where I had to kill multiple big armor rats
hearty mulch
Honestly you'd probably just be better off taking Talos Nails from the occasional well if armor was a concern
Since, while they are temporary, they don't take up a Daedalus slot like Piercing Volley does
opal lodge
but long story short, your instinct was correct
stone escarp
this is stygian, 2 casts, hera
opal lodge
chiron feels better than it is
i would take flurry
but flurry is basically a speedrunning hammer
charged volley is best damage
hearty mulch
I'd say Flurry
hearty elbow
I mean I spent maybe 2 hours grinding out 50 on Chiron and got to EM4 maybe 20% of the time? And I'm bad.
stone escarp
I also have no cast boon
hearty mulch
Hera is not a bow which benefits from special
opal lodge
i think it is simple
chiron is good in the same way that delta chamber on eris is good
hearty mulch
Bow Special is typically just for clearing projectiles
opal lodge
it saves you brain energy
hearty mulch
Unless you're Rama, where it is your main attack 🙃
hearty elbow
Chiron is really hard to optimize. E.g. after you tag an enemy you can and should dash to put other enemies between you and the tagged one
For AoE
abstract flower
All this bow talk is making me want to try out a different aspect besides chiron
I'm way too reliant on it
hearty elbow
I think it's simplicity pretty easily puts people in a false sense of security. It's definitely not easy past a heat threshold
hearty mulch
All this bow talk is making me want to try out a different aspect besides chiron
You should! Hera is really good, and Zag Bow isn't too bad either!
opal lodge
zag bow is quite possibly the best bow
at least for speed
for high heat nothing beats ramas aoe
hearty elbow
After Chiron I'd like to do Zag 50 though I imagine that'll take me a lot less time. I haven't really done anything with Hera so I'm not sure about that.
I'll start with 40 and see how I like that lol
opal lodge
you like bows a lot huh ledger
hearty mulch
I'd say Bow is the only weapon where there isn't a single aspect that is outright bad outside of Rail
hearty elbow
Zag shield feels like poopoo. I had Pulverizing and Deadly Strike and still felt like I wasn't doing anything
hearty mulch
Yeah... I always preferred Chaos over Zag Shield anyways.
opal lodge
my damage felt okish the few times i ran zag on 40
stone escarp
also like
what makes Hera better than just.,.. using Zag and using your casts???
opal lodge
well
hearty elbow
Yeah I have no idea what the meta is to play it. My next attempt was going to be Tidal Dash spam because that's typically what I do for aspects I hate
opal lodge
lets talk about casts for a second
stone escarp
does it let you stack the "undamaged foes" and "without bloodstone in them" better??
hearty elbow
Because Hera still has a bad Coronacht as backup, which is good when you have so much free burst
stone escarp
so crush shot is super strong
but blown kiss is a legendary boon apparently
opal lodge
but imagine if you could strap that short range, high powered cast to the end of a bow range
hearty mulch
TL;DR You get a lot of damage, and Crush Shot gets that E X T R A R A N G E
opal lodge
not only that, but also loading multiple casts
stone escarp
TL;DR You get *a lot* of damage, and Crush Shot gets that ***E X T R A R A N G...
not if you're good at the game like me and always mi s s
opal lodge
tldr; get your casts out fast, and also get them out at range
means outputting a TON of consistent damage
stone escarp
am I doing something wrong if I have 4 megs at the champion fight
opal lodge
most importantly without a good hammer
you could have terrible hammers and make a hera run work well
you cant do the same on most other bows
hearty elbow
But if you get Twin + Flurry on Hera you can still roflstomp through bosses along with bursting your way through normal rooms. Win win
stone escarp
you could have terrible hammers and make a hera run work well
this is true
Hera can hold it's own
opal lodge
exactly
stone escarp
I STILL HAVE NO CAST BOON I'M HALFWAY THROUGH ASPHODEL APHRODITE COME BAAACK
abstract flower
I'm taking notes rn lol
opal lodge
heras advantage is its consistency in addition to having upside through cast duos, like parting shot or mirage shot
abstract flower
I'll give Hera a shot on 18 heat
hearty elbow
Hera is also the safest cast aspect, which is why it gets no bonus
hearty mulch
Hera is also fun even with the less-used casts
opal lodge
so you can scale your damage through things in your control (god boons) rather than something that isnt in your control (hammers)
hearty mulch
I'm tempted to do a Blade Rift run with Hera
hearty mulch
Oof
hearty elbow
(it really just doesn't matter to max it lmao)
It's nice for bosses
That's about it
opal lodge
yeah just get QR
hearty mulch
Yeah, all you get is shorter cast duration in enemies
abstract flower
QR?
hearty elbow
quick reload
abstract flower
ah
hearty elbow
Sometimes the stars align and you end up with Greater Recall then you can machine gun and get carpal tunnel
dusky drum
Sometimes the stars align and you end up with Greater Recall then you can machin...
lmao yea
or just with aphro cast in general since it only half of the time lodges
hearty elbow
When enemies get bursted you just get the bloodstones back so you can more or less immediately load into another volley, so tl;dr you are just pressing Cast as fast as possible continuously
stone escarp
if chaos gives me a third cast here I'm going to cry because I'm still boon-less
hearty elbow
It's actually pretty unpleasant lmao. The few times it's happened I really wish I had Flurry Cast
opal lodge
usually when you run hera you force your cast boon first lol
stone escarp
..... I rolled twice and Aphrodite didn't give me her cast
why goddess, what did I do
hearty elbow
I'll probably try Hera again later today. No Blown Kiss though, right?
stone escarp
okay
I have Bad News
Stygian
Three total casts from Chaos
A Braid of Atlas
And no cast boon
opal lodge
I'll probably try Hera again later today. No Blown Kiss though, right?
blown kiss is fine
it doesnt really do anything
jovial fulcrum
tfw you fat finger a button and take spread fire over rocket bomb, on eris
hearty elbow
I thought I remember you mentioning that Blown Kiss causes that irritating issue where if you actually hit the target with an arrow the Crush Shot overshoots behind them
opal lodge
nah i dont believe thats a blown kiss thing
it might be a crush shot thing
it just happens sometimes
most of the time is not an issue
hearty elbow
oh huh I'll play around with it later I guess. I thought they fixed it.
opal lodge
its not as bad as it used to be
ive run into it maybe once or twice in probably 50+ hours of hera
hearty elbow
That's promising
jovial fulcrum
I got one boon room in all of asphodel yeesh
primal gale
yeesh 
jovial fulcrum
darn, if I hadnt fat fingered that first hammer I'd have cluster rockets right now
stone escarp
I had artemis keepsake on for Asphodel hoping to start the lego train but she didn't even appear in a door
she appeared in a trial between her and Aphrodite but I couldn't take it
that trial breaks my heart
jovial fulcrum
if you hit yourself with the first cluster bomb, with Eris, it boosts the other 4 right?
stone escarp
how do you optimize Eris?
dusky drum
how do you optimize Eris?
big blast makes zag go brrrr
hearty elbow
Throw out a bomb whenever you reload. Try to reload whenever you're repositioning, So reload + special + dash. It's not literally free, it adds frames to the animations, but you're getting the most value out of time you would be otherwise just dashing
A lot of it is managing bomb placement too, which gets harder (but obviously more rewarding) if you have Triple or Cluster
jovial fulcrum
my common zeus cast is hitting or 350 lol
stone escarp
I want to please my friend,.. how do I do it
(by using shield shh)
I have attempted the shield: (0) times
I might just max chaos and go nuts..?
dusk umbra
@stone escarp Shield like all weapons can be op, just focus on boons for the special attack, you can go full zagreus its good already
stone escarp
everything just feels unappealing to me when I use it on skelly lmao
dusk umbra
all shields are pretty good
Beowulf tho 😍
dusk umbra
Oh yeah, hadnt thought about that
spiral badge
Toss zag on and hulk smash the entire game or put Zeus special on Zeus shield and enjoy the Pink Floyd show imo
opal lodge
src
if youre faster than me youre good
youre considered a top player
thus
elo guardian
rare kindle
so wriste, slayer of godzil, is a top player?
opal lodge
apparently
stone escarp
zeus special chaos is a classic
this is what I'll try
jovial fulcrum
jolted op
jovial fulcrum
the one time i got it, it was great
it took a while to get though
like 4-5 runs of forcing Demeter and Zeus
dusky drum
the build i got it with was dem attack zeus special zeus shield i think
pretty fun
thats the run i got zeus legendary mid tart
and with ps
jovial fulcrum
I got it with a sea storm
dusky drum
just
jovial fulcrum
👌
dusky drum
yea it was great
sea storm seems good but i never like playing melee focus with pos
i just struggle to keep a constant damage stream
jovial fulcrum
the best part about sea storm is that it makes Tidal Dash apply jolted if you get everything set up
jovial fulcrum
sounds interesting
dusky drum
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/811259823613673472/812067960201543740/image0.jpg this is one of pengy787's runs
seemed very cool
spiral badge
I got triple bomb zeus special sea storm supersoaker online once
Really made me the question the lines of what constitutes a meme build lol
spiral badge
can you call it a meme if it vaporizes entire rooms in seconds flat and does huuuuuuge chunk damage to bosses?
Put it this way, I had epic zeus triple bomb on deck
dusky drum
can you call it a meme if it vaporizes entire rooms in seconds flat and does huu...
yea
spiral badge
And eventually I realized that I didn’t need to touch the special button except for boss rooms because it slowed me down as much as anything
Nutty
dusky drum
i mean its not called "super soaker" without reason
spiral badge
I’ll confess I haven’t had the patience to get that fully online before
I enjoy Lucy least of all the rails
But waawaaweewaa
That was something
dusky drum
yea i dont like any of the rails besides eris
like yea i get the appeal of the others but i just dont like it
dusky drum
hestia still feels wayy to slow and luci i just dont like how the lazer and packets work
spiral badge
I can’t be mad at the gun that gave us the meme beam though
dusky drum
(im just calling the hellfire packets because thats what they are)
spiral badge
I play zag rail all the time when I’m not at high heat because it’s 0-effort eris
aaaaand spread fire is hilarious
I don’t know when they changed it, but spread fire is 18 shots on zag rail these days
That’s a looootta damage
dusky drum
o-
oh
yea thats a lot
i never take rail so idk what half of the hammers do in application
spiral badge
someone should probably confirm that for me, I wasn’t entirely sober on that playthrough, but I’ve played enough zag rail that that stood out to me immediately
dusky drum
someone should probably confirm that for me, I wasn’t entirely sober on that pla...
"i wasnt entirely sober" lol
spiral badge
look zag rail is there when you just want to shoot mans but don’t want to/aren’t together enough to play eris ok 😜
18 shots was some holy cow damage though
worldly pier
Spread Fire is great, but have you heard about our lord and saviour Merciful End ?
gusty rapids
lili no
dusky drum
Spread Fire is great, but have you heard about our lord and saviour Merciful End...
ME is never there for me, a dissapointing lord and savior tbh
worldly pier
Generally for rail, and most weapons too unfortunately
spiral badge
ME is in such an awkward spot 🙈
worldly pier
And yes, ME need some resets to be online, but it just makes everything melt stupidly fast
spiral badge
It’s such a go-to answer for so many different situations
but you can’t exactly nerf ME meaningfully without taking it out or fundamentally kneecapping it
You’re the first I’ve heard talk of it on the rail though Lili. Conventional setup?
Probably, makes sense
gusty rapids
its good on any of the rails really
worldly pier
It was meta for Eris a while back. It's probably the best zag rail build. For Eris/Hestia/Luci, it's a land to explore, but at least a good build
spiral badge
Conventional setup I take it? Ares attack to apply doom, athena special, and athena dash to proc?
stable sigil
Same question here
gusty rapids
ye
spiral badge
Figured
stable sigil
Sounds pretty poggers
gusty rapids
spread fire zag rail probably has the higher pure top end but it kinda feels like the nemesis dilemma
for the unseeded top end, ME is probably the way to go on zag rail/nem
stable sigil
I might have to try it out when i bother to put blood into zag rail
gusty rapids
since u just need so much chaos to scale the arty attack setup
stable sigil
Gonna go do a chaos shield run. Any suggestions?
spiral badge
So is that a general principle frog?
When dealing in white-damage land, as much chaos as you can stand to boost base?
Or just a rail thing
worldly pier
Eris/Luci and Zag ME don't really need chaos. You want chaos for weapons that heavily rely on their attack (for attack and dash-strike boons)
gusty rapids
crit builds specifically want chaos the most
spiral badge
Makes sense
gusty rapids
e.g. arty attack nemesis, zag bow, spread fire zag rail, etc
crit scales the best with chaos
cast builds also scale really well
spiral badge
Curse builds don’t care about chaos because they don’t rely on base stats to make numbers
gusty rapids
flat damage like zeus or ares (aka ME) dont really scale too well with it
yeah exactly
spiral badge
But brute force weapons want it because chaos alters you
I gotcha, thank you
I’m gonna try to have to hunt a bunch of chaos down next time I try a gilga 2.0 run and see how that treats me
little quiver
Hey i got a question with the hera bow, if i load my cast do my attack boons still apply?
Like can i use artemis to crit with that shot?
gusty rapids
your attack boons apply to your attack only, not the cast
the way hera works is that it shoots the cast right after the attack lands
so the attack lands, does its damage, then the cast shoots and does damage
the attack boon will apply to the attack, not the cast
little quiver
Ah i see, which boons would be good/fun for the aspect?
gusty rapids
i havnet experimented with hera a lot but aphro cast is one of the best
static karma
I keep losing to extreme measures 4 😦
I wonder if I need specific builds and if so what helps the most?
hearty elbow
It's not a builds thing. EM4 just very heavily tests game mechanics and experience. There are very few aspects that can cheese it.
gusty rapids
beowulf full build is the closest u can get
static karma
Ah ok, should I just learn to dodge better then?
gusty rapids
but even then its not gonna be easy
gusty rapids
yeah mostly just learn the fight
lime jolt
Em4 cheese
proven osprey
ME stinky
gusty rapids
its just practice
static karma
And learn the i-frames on my dash I guess?
hearty elbow
Shields, Chiron and Hestia probably get the easiest times with it, but easy with EM4 is still a very relative concept
gusty rapids
dashing gives you invincibility frmaes
so if you dash at the right time, you can avoid all damage from the spins
even if you're in the range of the spins
lime jolt
Its useful for spins and shockwaves
untold vortex
blank dashes specifically
if you attack at any point during a dash you lose the i frames
lime jolt
Its very useful
hearty elbow
And then when you do get used to it you turn on FO2 and you're probably also trying for 50+ heat because why else would you do that to yourself
lime jolt
Smh
static karma
I want to beat 32 heat someday
highest I did was 16
i have 16 for all weapons at lesat
lime jolt
Fo2 em4 already a nightmare
hearty elbow
EM4 FO2 at 16 heat is harder than 40 with any aspect change my mind.
hearty elbow
Yeah. Been playing for a while I guess. Unless it's an aspect im not familiar with, 40 is pretty coasty. But I always sweat going into super dad with FO2, no matter how many lives, health or damage I have.
hearty elbow
The game rewards you really well for being able to identify your problems and iterate on them in the next run.
abstract flower
For Beowulf, what should I have as my special, or does it really matter?
gusty rapids
it really doesnt matter, you shouldnt be using your special often at all
the only reason i put boons on my special is to open up duos
abstract flower
So far i have artemis strike, poseidon flare, divine dash
lime jolt
Doesnt matter
abstract flower
and my choices right now are ares, zeus, and another artemis boon
lime jolt
For special
abstract flower
i have my call free as well
abstract flower
yeah thats a no-brainer lol
Is it a good idea to take on Charon while in Tartarus?
spiral badge
So
The way I think about that
As long as it doesn’t cost you your entire run, worth
Particularly in Tartarus
You either get the buff or get to reset your run quickly
willow fossil
Is it a good idea to take on Charon while in Tartarus?
Is up to you really, do you think you can beat him?
abstract flower
I'm not that good with Beowulf
willow fossil
You take increased damage with beowulf, charon already slaps hard enough
static karma
How do I deal with the darkness in EM4?
that always screws me up third phase
I'll be so happy when I finally beat EM4, I just always seem to fall short even with strong builds 😦
gusty rapids
turn brightness all the way up :^)
also stay close to the pillars
less ways for dad to hit you when you're near them
abstract flower
For Beowulf, should I get cast damage chaos boon, or ambush chaos boon?
spiral badge
Is anything better than 33% boost to cast damage better by default than an extra cast 👀
My amateur math brain tells me 35 X 3> 25 X 4, for instance
Or am I missing something
From chaos, that is
static karma
For first em4 clear run like a coward
Can you elaborate on what you mean?
spiral badge
He turned the brightness up on his monitor to offset the darkness effect from EM4 hades lol
dusky drum
He turned the brightness up on his monitor to offset the darkness effect from EM...
lmao that might work
opal lodge
tailesque did that in his 56 iirc
jovial fulcrum
galaxy brain
static karma
My brightness is all the way up, guess I’ll just have to get used to the fight
ruby igloo
Does anyone have any tips for Styigus builds in terms of surviving while putting out damage?
I can do some great dmg but with Styigus getting in that close i get hit a lot
Oddly enough with Malphon I dont have that problem
Getting a road block at 9 to 11 heat with the sward.
last run I even used demeter
half crater
that’s a pretty normal experience; stygius is a very exposed weapon
a lot of is just practice honestly
you’ve probably heard this before but divine dash helps a lot
ruby igloo
yea. I had divine dash xD
But I see what you mean
I keep forgetting I'm fine and to be patient despite the timer
Go cheese mode and get 3% life on urns? xD
half crater
feather duster doesn’t really add much to survivability imo
when i want to be safe i force athena for dash then switch to acorn or tooth
ruby igloo
I can see that. I never take tooth until the end though
just my play style
I like charons well blessing near the end a lot
but yea.. you're right feather duster kind of sucks
especially when you have a timer and you're not focused on pot smashing
lime jolt
Can you elaborate on what you mean?
I was joking
static karma
Oh ok oops hard to tell over text
ember mica
Should I generally take hammers over chaos gates or the other way around?
ember mica
Ok rn I’m in the beginning of a sword run so I can shape it around whichever I chose
robust anchor
take ares attack
ember mica
Cuz each have different abilities
ruby igloo
then again
robust anchor
and then go for athena dash and special
willow fossil
You shape your build, and then think, what do i need, do I need a hammer, or do I need extra dmg from chaos
ruby igloo
sometimes a chaos gate can show up when you're near the end of a zone
and sometimes
you'd have to be stupid to take a chaos buff
lime jolt
and then go for athena dash and special
That’s for speedrunning
robust anchor
its also the best build for any zag sword run
ruby igloo
it's always a pro vs con situation
lime jolt
Eh there are other builds out there
willow fossil
its also the best build for any zag sword run
Theres no best build lol
Unless you're speedrunning or doing 60 heat lol
robust anchor
ok i trust you
lime jolt
You can’t exactly do 60 heat with sword
ruby igloo
and get wrekt
lime jolt
Tailesque prove me wrong
ruby igloo
just always consider when and where with Chaos
willow fossil
and get wrekt
Not if you're good enough 
ember mica
you'd have to be stupid to take a chaos buff
Yeah one time I somehow found myself with two chaos curses and facing the champions and it was the end
willow fossil
Yeah calculate how many runs until boss, you dont wanna fight champions for example, while hindered
Champions are in chamber 36, keep that in mind when going into chaos
ember mica
That knocked some sense into me lol
ruby igloo
In a way Bebe thats good and bad luck lol
willow fossil
See what chamber you're in
You take a chaos on chamber 33, you're 100% gonna go into champions with the debuff
ember mica
I forgot all about that feature I need to start using it
ruby igloo
That's kind of what I'm saying..
The new aspect on Malphon is so fun
risky but so fun
damn near got one of my best times
except I was stupid
willow fossil
14/24/36 are the bosses, remember those numbers
ember mica
That’s super useful thanks!
willow fossil
There are 2 very rare exceptions that the number can get pushed up by 1
And those are chaos and erebus themselves
But is something very rare
warm yew
Let's say I get Festive Fog and then I get the Demeter duo boon Ice Wine "Your CAST blasts an area with freezing festive Fog that inflicts Chill". Later, I sell the Festive Fog boon. Would Ice Wine no longer affect my cast?
warm yew
What if I sold the Frost Flourish special boon that was a duo boon requirement?
warm yew
okay. but 100% if I sold festive fog that duo boon would become useless?
ruby igloo
Yes
ruby igloo
How bad are you trying to break the system bruh? xD
warm yew
Because I wondered if the cast's base damage would just go back to being the base 50, but still inflict chill. Perhaps also festive fog? idk
ruby igloo
You're over thinking it.
warm yew
I dont want to test it because this is a sick run so far lol
willow fossil
If you sell festive fog. Is over
warm yew
yeah I guess
ruby igloo
The game is pretty literal
Brandingo, test it anyway!
FOR SCIENCE!
but dont sell that boon xD
willow fossil
Lol
willow fossil
You can in the files, copy your save file
ruby igloo
We are talking about a game from the underworld -.-
warm yew
Nintendo Switch 🤫
willow fossil
Lmfao
ruby igloo
Ok I'll rephrase, I ran a pos/aphro cast build that was STUPIDLY strong
willow fossil
Rip
warm yew
thanks for the info
ruby igloo
hits like a truck
abstract flower
Am I missing something? A lot of clears in victory boasting have unbooned cores. Why is that?
lime jolt
Am I missing something? A lot of clears in victory boasting have unbooned cores....
Because they just didn’t get one
abstract flower
Because they just didn’t get one
That's weird. I always make sure to boon my cores (except if UC requires me to get rid of one).
willow fossil
No point in getting a special boon, if you dont plan on using your special
abstract flower
No point in getting a special boon, if you dont plan on using your special
duo proc?
willow fossil
Uh?
I just said that as an example
Could be for any core, not necessarily attack
abstract flower
I see
willow fossil
Like some chiron build for example, they don't get an attack boon
You just use the attack for marking
No point in enhancing it
abstract flower
No point in enhancing it
what do they use for heart rend? dash?
robust anchor
sometimes people have UC so maybe thats why
willow fossil
That too
robust anchor
or maybe theyre doing a boonless run
abstract flower
I'm still learning this game despite clearing over 100 runs.
willow fossil
Theres always room to learn
abstract flower
I always feel like I could improve my runs in various ways.
willow fossil
Of course
I'm 300 hours in, and I still learn stuff from streams
The one rule of thumb in this game, is there's no rule of thumb
abstract flower
Hades is perhaps the only game where I enjoy dying repeatedly.
willow fossil
Comes with the genre
dusky drum
yea, rogue likes do be giving that vibe
willow fossil
The ones with meta progression that is
stuck basalt
anyone good ideas for a chiron bow w twin shot hammer build?
had to take it for the prophecy and i am NOT vibing w the reduced range lol
robust anchor
zag bow and rama like twin shot a lot more
dusky drum
i mean you could always say screw the chiron thing and play like a zag/rama bow
flat garden
how does athena's curse work
can i inflict it with divine dash by just dashing into an enemy?
or do i actually have to deflect first and then it inflicts it
warm tapir
My dudes whats a good spear aspect/build? Havent completed a run with spear yet :<
woven ivy
rn im using hades aspect and i think its pretty good
if you dont use spin attack that much tho get another aspect
for the boons i like using a mix of ares and artemis boons
mainly ones that focus of attack and special
warm tapir
doesnt spin attack take a while to charge? kinda worries me a bit :<
thorny beacon
Starting w Zag's sword. Ares' Aid for invulnerable blaft rift morph, Divine Dash, Cursed blade cuts HP by 60% but life regen +2HP each hit & 13% Aphodite DMG resistance.
Kinda liking this flex.
woven ivy
doesnt spin attack take a while to charge? kinda worries me a bit :<
yea you have to time it correctly
with hades aspect the range increases tho so you have more space
thorny beacon
Spin attack will also cull all projectiles thrown around you
woven ivy
yes
woven ivy
seems risky imo
woven ivy
np
thorny beacon
Yeh but the blade slashes are quick & will keep me alive while the DMG resistance will buffer down.
Divine Dash is in my aid too
woven ivy
true
thorny beacon
Took 3 blows during Hades' 45 sec survival and got 0 HP lost at end of it
Suddenly I feel confident for Elysium lol
Just gotta mash 2 win lmao
warm tapir
Okay wow got spin charge hammer kmfao
thorny beacon
Nutty
woven ivy
noice
thorny beacon
Wowow, got to Hermes next.
Either I take 10% faster strikes or after I dash, 100% movement speed & sturdy buff (30% dmg debuff & unable to be stopped)
woven ivy
i think first one is better for your build
honest wing
woven ivy
not sure
i dont think it does
pretty sure the only thing that affects spin attack charge is daedalus enchant
thorny beacon
I went for the 2nd one, not getting stunned once by dmg during my assaults
Aaand just got 40% w deflecting attacks
.... I just JV3'd Meg
Perfect Health
Quick Recovery, 30% recovered after losing health & equipped Hermes' quick clear boon granting 1% movement speed & dodge chance if encounter is beat quickly
warm tapir
Its so neat to have your spin range be bigger than theseus
What's not neat is finishing elysium without an attack boon outside of hammer fml
woven ivy
bruh lmao
warm tapir
But srsly tho finished final boss with 30 hp and no defiances left lmao
I love this build thanks raccoon
woven ivy
haha glad you liked it
thorny beacon
So just cleared 2nd stage. I can safely say Ares' Aid 5 second duration Impervious Death Blade is sheer madness.
37/40 HP
No deaths
@woven ivy you may love this build
woven ivy
I'll try it out next time my blade has dark thirst then
thorny beacon
Cursed Blade but have a bunch of defensive & movement buffs, those I mentioned above is very complimentary
My initial HP was 100 so its 40, but I've only lost up to half of it before slashing madly to restore it back to 40
My advice is to keep adds around vs bosses
I got Doom on Special & Poseidon's 10 sec Atk+SP buff too
thorny beacon
Everything fell in my hands on 1st act
It was rather fortunate, I do use Athena's boon 1st though to make sure I get more chance to get Divine Dash
I upgraded Different League for 19% DMG reduction & now my Special inflicts Weak, so even less chance of getting any big damage
Added Curse of Vengeance, inflict Doom on nearby foes when hurt
thorny beacon
asdfdasf ended by ||a Tiny Vermin||
kind finch
i had such a good boonless run
but i got so unlucky with rerolls
but theres no extra dialogue for beating hades with only hermes 
patent raven
asdfdasf ended by ||a Tiny Vermin||
Had an Eris run the other day against that thing, and it went so quickly. Yes, please get aggressive with me. I want you to.
patent raven
So just cleared 2nd stage. I can safely say Ares' Aid 5 second duration Impervio...
Quick question: does the vacuum effect for Death Rift (forgot the name of the actual boon) work for Ares’ Aid as well?
limber cloak
patent raven
Interesting. I may have to try it; I’ve resisted Ares’ Aid before because I didn’t like how it seemed to remove your actual attack options, but maybe it does more damage? Especially with Vicious Cycle...
fierce hare
whats a good guan yu build?
patent raven
whats a good guan yu build?
I don’t run it much, but I can tell you that Athena’s Aid saved my ass on a Guan Yu run a while back; you can get HP back while impervious.
fierce hare
the general consensus ive seen is athena to be very good for things such as bronze skin as well as her attack eing really good on the spin
but other than athena main im nto sure what else to go for, shud i go for something like aphrodite or dionysus' damage reduc boons?
proven osprey
No damage reduction is not something you should aim for
fierce hare
so what other boons should i go for
proven osprey
It's good for sure, but what will make you win in the end is a build that will allow you to deal damage
So with Guan Yu you have several options, I'll advise to build around the first hammer you get.
fierce hare
artemis for pp and hunters mark?
proven osprey
Charged skewer is the best hammer : Artemis on special, Aphrodite on attack, Heart rend.
fierce hare
i have fast spin rn
proven osprey
Spin builds will require quick spin and/or massive spin : Artemis attack is a lot of damage. Other than that, Aphrodite is still good, Athena is safe and opens up to deadly reversal
lime jolt
Spinning is good while enemies are spawning
proven osprey
Idk if you noticed Pengy
But I was trying a new way to play which involves a lot of mini spin
was so fun to play
proven osprey
i have fast spin rn
That's a good one. Just don't be too greedy with spins in general, even with quick spin
lime jolt
Yeah
But I’m taking about average GY players that don’t know the timing
Mini spinning kinda hard
proven osprey
Your advice was fine really, was just thinkin about that
fierce hare
lets hope for the best then im just trying the weapon for the first time i got athena attack alrady and i might get pp and hunters lets see what happens lmao
proven osprey
that's should be a safe run if you play it well
lime jolt
And you were playing at 50 so you needed to heal
proven osprey
yeah it's still 20 dmg/0.5s though, not too bad
lime jolt
Yeah
proven osprey
double with shackle
lime jolt
Yeah so just don’t mini spin unless you have quick/massive
Shackle is turning into my new favorite keepsake
fierce hare
athena has big chonky damage with guan yu cant imagine how strong artemis on attack can be
lime jolt
Yeah
If you are looking for the biggest base damage Aphrodite is the way to go
She had the best % damage bonus
fierce hare
yeah but wouldnt having artemis attack with clean kill and hunter mark have bigger damage
fierce hare
yeah but for a base its really good
proven osprey
Sure thing
In general, you want to spin between waves or against slow enemies like thugs
cunning urchin
But I was trying a new way to play which involves a lot of mini spin
That's new? 
brazen nest
Got a sub 17 with achilles spear
Got hunting blades just before the furies
The things just melted
It could've been a sub 16 but I entered one extra room in styx to buy blood
Shackle lvl3 is 100%+?
bold elk
wait does hades spear spin attack have a wider range than achilles spin attack?
cunning urchin
Max Shackle is +100%, yes.
Yes, Hades Aspect's spin has a much wider radius than the other spear aspects.
lime jolt
Shackle my new favorite keepsake
cunning urchin
It's a keepsake lol.
willow haven
Why do i keep typing the wrong things
u answered that already
proven osprey
That's new? <:squirtnya:472124054644457472>
Yeah it's a really weird gameplay, I don't know how to explain it properly
lime jolt
u answered that already
proven osprey
Oh, nice!
Not sure if I can do it everywhere tho, but it's nice in Tartarus to maintain full health
lime jolt
Pretty risky but worth it if it works
ruby igloo
I gotta say hitting higher heat levels
kind of makes me feel like Im starting all over again
YOU ARE A NOOB! Smitten
buoyant surge
proven osprey
proven osprey
just helping there
static karma
Rama feels very cool but I am not great at using it. Any tips for using it? I know dash strike makes charge up faster. I don't know the ideal builds for Rama yet
like what gods would be good on it
lime jolt
Artemis on attack
Ideal hammers are twin or triple I believe
Zeus/dio/aphro are great on the special
Aim for arty/aphro duo or aphro/dio duo
Zeus is just good overall @static karma
spiral badge
Ares also kind of slaps on Rama if you’re into hunting blades
spiral badge
Kind of leaves Artemis by her lonesome but doom has a great tech tree for big damage, same with his cast/dash t2s and Hunting blades ofc
Hunting blades anything really
Doom just compliments Rama special nicely
spiral badge
I think of hunting blades as the cast version of ME. Hard to set up, but universally great if you come across it
Honestly I’ve come to appreciate ares dash rifts more and more lately, if anything
They start making great little traps with his T2s online
Really hunting blades is just the nice to have that sits at the end of his inclusion in the god pool. Ares does lots of nice things for Rama perfectly well without it
patent raven
Just got a boon selection screen with two Duos. Doesn’t happen often.
static karma
What are some other good duo boons for Rama?
And what does Ares do for Rama in general? I’m guessing you put ares on attack?
spiral badge
Yeah ares for special only
You value him because of Rama’s bouncing special applying doom all over the place. Keep him off of attack
Again, he’s one choice of many. All of the Curse Damage gods get along well in Rama’s special slot
Zeus and ares are probably the highest for raw damage. But Dio synergies well with Artemis who is the usual pick for attack
Dio also gets along really well with Aphrodite, who is the 2nd choice for Rama’s attack slot behind Artemis
fossil compass
I do wonder
if ares on special is better than zeus on special
I guess that's a hard question since there's considerations for pom scaling and supporting boons
jovial fulcrum
Aprho Atk, Zeus Special, Dio Aid.
smoldering air rama
burnt breach
I had a nice chiron build recently with poseidon special, sea storm, zeus legendary, poseidon legendary, and just a whole bunch of boons that increased damage even more
jovial fulcrum
getting a good sea storm build going is probably my favorite type of run in this game
burnt breach
yeah, sometimes it feels like I can never get the boons I want but everything just lined up that run
I'm pretty sure I only rerolled once total
static karma
Do people here prefer god’s pride or god’s legacy when they just want to win? I find duos strong but i also like having my core boons be epic
burnt breach
I think i prefer pride
If I'm really hunting for a specific duo or legendary I'll put on legacy but 9/10 having good core boons will perform better than a duo with common boons
stone escarp
Hey so I know people think curse of longing is underwhelming, if you could change how it worked, how?
Would you just take away the -50% consecutive penalty?
brazen nest
they think that?
cloud vault
Ares also gives you Battle Rage
The moment Rama has battle Rage active, the next power shot is going to level a small mountain
spiral badge
Same with hestia and Arthur. Between battle rage and Urge to Kill Ares has some walloping attack bonuses
still vortex
That's hyperbole
spiral badge
Would you just take away the -50% consecutive penalty?
Removing the penalty or reducing it to a flat damage reduction would be a good way to go about it
Curse of longing’s real problem is that the more you use it, the worse it gets. It’s real use is mostly keeping PS up for me. Changing from a scaling to a flat reduction would probably help it a bunch
dreamy verge
What's the best aspect for Varatha?
brazen nest
achilles, for me at least
dreamy verge
Ah nice
patent pewter
same
cloud vault
I think they're about equal
turbid needle
oh wow i just came to ask about Varatha haha
brazen nest
usually with hunting blades or flood shot
brazen nest
GY is hard as crap
cloud vault
Achilles is easiest
cloud vault
I think all the spears are
rocky spade
If you prefer you could play GY with mirror extra health ;D
and GY upgrades are nice
stone escarp
Curse of longing’s real problem is that the more you use it, the worse it gets. ...
I think I'd change it like this:
Your doom effects continually strike weak foes, but does -25% damage.
This way it can do very good damage over time as long as weak is kept up, and having Dire Misfortune as an add on is the boon that seals the deal
Is that what you meant too? It sounded like you wanted to make it go like -flat damage for each consecutive hit?
void tartan
How do you plan a hidden spear aspect build? I can't seem to get past Elysium and it's pulling teeth to clear without any damage past Tartarus.
stone escarp
Are crits additive or multiplicative??
Because like
Hhhh idk anymore
I don't know what does whay
Is chaos additive or multiplicative
opal lodge
crits are multiplicative
very few other things
i think other than crits its only stygian shards
brazen nest
@void tartan for GY you want charged skewer and possibly deadly flourish, you want to special a lot and spin rarely, sometimes jab
void tartan
So don't bother with the heal. That is a shame. I suppose that explains why it does ok against butterfly ball, one of the few things that you actually can spin into submission.
patent raven
Is chaos additive or multiplicative
I just learned about Chaos being additive when I was doing an Arthur run today. “200-ish Special + 70% Special buff = ...260?! OK, must be additive.”
stone escarp
is that why hunter's mark is so good then :00
patent raven
Hunter’s Mark is the first thing I go for after initial crit boon if I’m trying for that.
stone escarp
Triple Bomb + Deadly Flourish + Hunter's Mark on Hestia
it's just
gaurantee hunter's mark then go wild
patent raven
I can’t run Hestia because I never remember to manually reload.
burnt breach
i keep trying to get a cluster rocket build but daedalus isn't having any of it
burnt breach
I'm on switch and reload is pushing in right stick by default, completely messes up the flow
tbh there isn't really a better button for it that isn't already taken
static ibex
You get used to it
burnt breach
i haven't at all, not worth completely stopping shooting for a good second for a manual reload
i might try swapping it and summon if i seriously try hestia
static ibex
Took me a few runs before reloading became second nature. Just takes time for the muscle memory to embed
spiral badge
Bepis you really, really need to take reload off of right stick. That bind is half the problem. Don’t know what they were thinking when they made that default. I swapped the “summon” and “reload” binds and it made my life much, much better
Summon is a button you touch 5-7 times per run. No issue with it being on the right stick. Reload you press 10-15 times every room when playing rail. Rebinding it makes a tremendous difference
patent raven
I didn’t know you could rebind on the Switch. I should try that.
lucid moth
how does cold embrace do anything?
spiral badge
I put cast on r2 fwiw and I love it. Mentally corresponds great with the existing “pew pew” semiauto muscle memory from FPS games
And I keep reload on l2 because thats a good available button
spiral badge
prob ably works best with talos
Sorry we the representatives of the Talos clan dont want cold fusion either. Dem cast is a wasted aphro cast slot