I say in general Greater Evasion at least can trasform to more damage
#h1-builds-and-combat
sullen valley
Kk
whole palm
sullen valley
Bows can be melee, if you're Daedalus
dry ember
do you have $90 to spare?
sullen valley
What, did you have a Hermes boon?
vapid yacht
do you have $90 to spare?
No but I feel like you can get copies for less these days
toxic kite
Hey guys, I'd like to do a run with Guan Yu aspect, but I almost never won with it, do you know some good builds with it ? Ty !
mellow geyser
When using the bow w Aspect of Here should I switch to the regenerating cast?
regal garden
both work
if you dont want to upgrade it honestly id say stygian soul is a good choice though
mellow geyser
but if I upgrade it is it a better choice?
fair tree
after using aspect of arthur and absolutely loving it what are some other aspects that may be fun
toxic kite
I like Exagryph with Hestia aspect
sullen valley
Hm, using Arthur (on Forced Overtime 2), Reroll or take Epic Swift Strike?
sullen valley
also what aspects are worth focusing on upgrading?
Just any or a certain weapon
toxic kite
for exagryph I'd say hestia.
For the bow I'd say chiron
Fists: demeter
Spear: hades
mellow geyser
I like the Achilles Spear
toxic kite
sword: arhtur
sullen valley
All of what Vulcan said I agree with
(If you don't have Arthur, Poseidon)
No srs though would you make Arthur attack faster or nah
toxic kite
And if you want to do the weirdest, play rail-gun with Lucifer lol
such a strange gameplay, I only tried it once, I should grind it a bit, but it's super hard to play imo
sullen valley
It's super weird
toxic kite
Like I LOVE the idea, but how difficult it is
coarse moss
When using the bow w Aspect of Here should I switch to the regenerating cast?
let's take a timeframe of 10 seconds, youre fighting a boss. not taking into account any extra bloodstones
Infernal soul : shoot 3 spells at once. 5 secs later(Hera maxed), shoot 3 again. so you can shoot 6 in about 10 sec
Stygian soul : shoot 1, wait 3 seconds. in 10 secs, you can shoot total of 3
mellow geyser
I see
sullen valley
Yeah Stygian is good for non-cast builds
eternal wasp
Hey guys, I'd like to do a run with Guan Yu aspect, but I almost never won with ...
anything that boosts your health, like centaur hearts and collar.. hammers that boost attack or spin are great
sullen valley
I'm just gonna say screw it and take the fast Arthur attack for the memes
toxic kite
anything that boosts your health, like centaur hearts and collar.. hammers that ...
Well i starterd kinda bad so. I took boons for the special, I'm samming it from distance lol
eternal wasp
the special is kinda lackluster imo
daring turtle
once you gotten a bunch of extra health though, I recommend taking a different keepsake for protection, like Acorn or Spearpoint
coarse moss
the best guan yu hammer is charged skewer, second is quick spin
coarse nexus
The Acorn is best if you're not completely familiar with a boss' moveset or need to get past a specific segment
eternal wasp
though by the point you have guan yu you should probably be familiar with most things
toxic kite
the best guan yu hammer is charged skewer, second is quick spin
My game is in another langage; what are their effects ?
eternal wasp
faster charge up for life stealing spin and charging up special attack for increased damage
coarse moss
Hold Special to charge your skewer for up to +200% base damage.
get artemis on special with charged skewer
get aphrodite on attack and go for aphrodite + artemis duo
toxic kite
Alright thanks, well i started a weird run... I have dyonisos on throw and dash, aphrodite on special and a Daedalus that makes my special deal extra damage to armor... My build is a distance one with a spear lol
coarse moss
what i described is a long range build. dio is not great on it though
toxic kite
True
Well I'll see if i can finish the current run
the holding attack doesn't regenerate that much HP imo
eternal wasp
it really doesnt
toxic kite
So this aspect doesn't work well for what its suppose to be
hot flare
yay i finally beat it
toxic kite
the hydra just destroy one of my hp bars with a single groundpound I couldn't dodge š
coarse moss
yes it's not a weapon that allow you to take hits. dodging is even more important when using guan yu
toxic kite
I see that, it was stronger in that regard before an update that nerfed the healing a lot
eternal wasp
i actually finished guan yu in what i think was my second try but i probably just got real lucky
toxic kite
I achieved to win a run before they nerfed the heal. It was pretty strong back then. Now I try again
toxic kite
Oh yes !! I won the 10 heat run š
I just kitted hades with my special like a sissy
toxic kite
Ty !
coarse moss
congratz!
toxic kite
Thanks! Now I should push my limits with Lucifer aspect. Did anyone complete a run with that weird thing ? ahah
stone harbor
Did you guys know that hunting blades sucks if you get exactly one artemis boon the whole game?
jagged grove
Rip
regal garden
wow
verbal prism
Is there a good rama bow build?
dry ember
lmao
opal lodge
seriously though, just artemis attack will carry you far
artemis attack + artemis dash
turbid needle
rama with zeus special I heard is rad
rare kindle
What are the tanky butterfly balls in elysium meant to prepare you for?
turbid needle
nothing .... maybe the rats?
regal garden
pure torture
turbid needle
i'm not even sure how they fit elysium lore
spice ether
To prepare you to fight the final Hades
regal garden
'...What is the soul? An ember from the depths of Chaos, nothing more, I think. But it is all we are, as mortals; and it is all we are reduced to, once we inevitably fade away. Is it such a surprise, then, that we souls seek company in death just as in life? Likewise, it should come as no surprise, I think, that some such souls yet harbor hatred in what used to be their hearts. Petty, spiteful souls flock together. They always have, and always will. Here in the depths, such souls sometimes flock in such great numbers, that they congeal. This unassuming form, its components reminiscent of the butterfly which mortals praise for its delicate beauty, belies their intentions.'
achilles entry
rare kindle
Like, the bosses are pretty tanky, but they move around more than that
turbid needle
How the souls find their way into each layer tho @regal garden
regal garden
read my nickname
proven osprey
lmao
spiral badge
has anyone tried this game with an arcade stick for input
I feel like that could actually be a pretty viable control method with less hand wear-and-tear
opal lodge
LOL
spiral badge
.......Thatās not really an outlandish suggestion?
proven osprey
@opal lodge Make your apologies
stone harbor
What is the best call for smoldering air? Zeus does not count
opal lodge
<@!461369378315960330> Make your apologies
what for
proven osprey
you just LOLED at an Angry swordman
proven osprey
What is the best call for smoldering air? Zeus does not count
Dio
Poseidon very solid
stone harbor
Idk I would prohably pick demeter over dio
mighty ermine
dio is way more powerful than demeter call
stone harbor
Yeah but slows
proven osprey
I'd rather apply chill with something else
But I can see some uses of the call
It's not the worst
ionic kraken
Every time I see someone call Dionysus Dio, all I can think of is Dio Brando.
proven osprey
OH HO 
ionic kraken
Dio blob is adorable.
spiral badge
Oh, youāre approaching my party?
whole sapphire
Does life affirmation affect centaur hearts gained from thanatos? What about centaur souls? And health gained through darkness? So many questions
proven osprey
no
spiral badge
I canāt bring this bottle of wine inside unless I get closer
whole sapphire
Yeah I think that should be a thing
proven osprey
I was thinking about that today, it's not like it would be broken
whole sapphire
Yeah I was thinking maybe if life affirmation had a lower % then that would work out
proven osprey
I mean
Life affirmation is nice when epic
otherwise I'd take any other Aphro boons
they're all nice
whole sapphire
Id really take it anytime if the other boons are all common and I already have decent offense
whole sapphire
I think its probably good as is then
ionic kraken
I want to be able to take a flat number of obols in place of boons up front rather than having to wait until the end of a level to get rid of my bad boons. š
I donāt usually get three stinkers, but itās happened once or twice.
spiral badge
Three stinkers with the appropriate mirror boons is real, real bad luck
But Iāve had those too
ionic kraken
And, even then, I have to cross my fingers that the pool will offer up the bad boon as one of its three.
spiral badge
So, how do people like to play Beowulf
Outside of casting obv
Does the attack see much use? I find myself leaning on the throw as my secondary source of damage after the cast for it
whole sapphire
I see alot of 32 heat runs with no routine inspection but imo I think its pretty good over having to take more damage or less healing
spiral badge
The attack just seems clunky and the throw is all the chunkier
I love the first tier of RI. 2 heat for placing my faith in the heart of the cards? Easy pickup for me
whole sapphire
I dont even need the extra epic or duo chance I just get a good seed and give up when I am going to die
ionic kraken
How does casting with the Aspect of Beowulf work? I know it loads the Bloodstone into the shield, but does the Dragon Rush actually have the effect of the cast?
proven osprey
I see alot of 32 heat runs with no routine inspection but imo I think its pretty...
No it is not. The first level of RI is enough to make you lose total control of your build
No roll, no Dark foresight is terrible
whole sapphire
I find its good if I get a good seed
spiral badge
I just think of it as playing like I did when I was still in early game and it doesnāt bug me much
Plus you still have PS to explode things with
whole sapphire
And I dont really need rolls bc I havent even got alot anyways
Ive got like 2 rolls
spiral badge
@ionic kraken pressing the cast button āloadsā your cast into your next charge rush
spiral badge
Firing it activates ādragonā rush above ābullā rush, increasing AOE and damage
And setting your cast off at the conclusion of the dash
whole sapphire
86 hours and 44/49 achievements lol
agile plover
Is there a way to figure out what I need to do in order to unlock the hidden aspects?
Or is it complex/annoying to figure out, in which case I should just wiki?
spiral badge
Casts are generally modified into large AOE effects, except the ones that translate well like Artemis and Zeus I think
Just Keep Playing
whole sapphire
Is there a way to figure out what I need to do in order to unlock the hidden asp...
You can get hints with important dialogue
Like talking to a specific person
proven osprey
I mean you have not hit 32 yet ^^
spiral badge
@agile plover that is always the answer in this game. Keep playing and keep talking to everyone
agile plover
Ugh .-.
Should I at least equip the weapon that has the hidden aspect that I want? Or is that irrelevant?
coarse moss
the wiki says you have to reveal guan yu first. then you can get other hidden aspects
whole sapphire
You can get some dialogue in hoh and also during runs, so just do the weapon you want while your doing runs and the rest doesnt really matter
But Id reccomend not looking it up at first because its pretty fun figuring out which weapon leads to dialogue from which character
agile plover
Okay. I'll give it a shot then XD
Side note: Charon's difficult-ish
His oar swipes doing 50 hp is quite unforgiving XD
rare kindle
Yeah, it's going to take a while for me to finish the codex page on loyalty cards
spiral badge
Charon calls for either a busted run or a very play-lame-win-game build
Of which there are quite a few of both
But yeah the boatman is not a joke
daring turtle
as long as you learn his patterns he's not so bad - you just need to dodge behind him to avoid his oars
he still has a lot of HP though
stone harbor
I can do charon fairly well but if you don't have your damage set up yet it takes forver, so I almost never do him in tartarus
spiral badge
Iām always so tempted by it though. Charon in Tartarus is a run-maker
proven osprey
Yeah, it's either over or starting with more obols 
sonic crypt
I accidentally annoyed charon in tart during an arthur run, thank god that sword is stupidly good, lost all 3 DDs and still finished run
rare kindle
Oh, I actually beat Charon in tartarus using arthur and went on to win the game
That damage reduction aura is so strong
proven osprey
@rare kindle aiming for Charon%?
sonic crypt
yeah that was same as me dys, life lesson for sure 
rare kindle
I think the only lesson I took from that was that if you have to borrow some obols, arthur's a good choice if you haven't mastered the fight yet
I'm just trying to fill out my codex by now
fading garden
Does blizzard shot chill enemies?
mighty ermine
no
fading garden
Also, any advice on playing blizzard shot? I feel like I really struggle playing with that boon
spiral badge
Honestly I think blizzard shot is a bit overrated
Specifically because it does not chill
coarse moss
y u no chill
spiral badge
It seems good on paper but losing that large festive fog cloud and all the tasty other AOE things it can do and not even getting chill stacks for your trouble is kinda cheeks
forest marsh
Ice Wine is great because it's virtually instant cast, still has AoE, and chills
spiral badge
No no ice wine is fantastic
I had my wires crossed
Flood shot can do all sorts of fun things though, same story
Dem feels like a waste there too
sonic crypt
but why run anything when Scintillating Feast exist 
misty turret
well after doing 32 heat i have a new appreciation for the ability to restore hp without SD
fading garden
sounds like someone is a fan of scintillating feast
regal garden
what were you using to heal
misty turret
SD
spiral badge
Scintillating feast + lightning rod = 2-button game
misty turret
on the upside, skull earring was active most of the time
sonic crypt
sounds like someone is a fan of scintillating feast
I tried out beowulf for the second time last night and hit scintillating, it was just beautiful
misty turret
so that +40% damage was always there
spiral badge
question
turbid needle
any EM4 tips? Hades is a lot harder then normal Hades. Even first phase I die
fading garden
I'm guessing pajama is referring to routine inspection taking away their stubborn defiance
spiral badge
Can environmental hazards harm you after the bell rings on an encounter room? or are you invulnerable the moment the last enemy dies?
fading garden
any EM4 tips? Hades is a lot harder then normal Hades. Even first phase I die
Wait!? Usui is struggling? What is this madness?
spiral badge
Iām too much of a chicken to find out
turbid needle
you can still die from those bombs and lava
forest marsh
You are briefly invulnerable to all damage, but environmental damage resumes after
spiral badge
Ah, ok
sonic crypt
I always dash away from bomb purely out of habit
spiral badge
Yeah I nope right out of there rain or shine
fading garden
It is a good habit
turbid needle
I'm only a heat 10 noob @fading garden
forest marsh
It's a habit I have too, but from when bombs could hurt you at end of combat early on in early access
fading garden
ah, the truth reveals itself š
proven osprey
@turbid needle Take care of the adds, learn the timing to iframe the sweep (double in EM4). Do not rush, you have to be patient and consistent. Phase 1 is usually hard, use your summon
fading garden
Yeah, I am pretty sure phase 1 is the hardest
turbid needle
it's his spear throw that is new
proven osprey
EM4 is a loooot of practice
It's really fast and hard to dodge when offscreen
staying at melee is better
turbid needle
it really bugs me that bosses have invulnerability in the middle of my dps dump
spiral badge
Trying my new hightest heat, 18 with the blessed Talos fists. Going well so far, got rare Zeus attack, epic Poseidon special and Aphrodite dash. Wish me luck
spiral badge
it really bugs me that bosses have invulnerability in the middle of my dps dump
Same. I know itās convention to do so but I donāt understand why a game so focused on speed has that mechanic
proven osprey
Yeah you have to be careful about hps threshold
something you learn with time too
but as I said
do more EM4
and more
and a lot more
fading garden
I also recommend high hard labor. Not because it is easier, far from it, but because it makes you more mindful of your movement
spiral badge
Talos meathook cancelling is just so damn satisfying
fading garden
what do you mean?
spiral badge
My favorite mechanic in the game
Cancelling the meathook portion of Talos special into something else
Dash, attack, cast etc
fading garden
Interesting. The nice thing is you should still get the magnetic cutter damage bonus
spiral badge
The uppercut never fires but the enemy gets dragged to you
Leading to setups like with aphro cast where you literally meathook an enemy and give them 3 barrels of love, doomguy style
And absolutely on the cutter damage bonus
errant linden
Can I just say that I had this crazy knock back build and it made me laugh my ass off. I have to find the clip of it and send it and also find out which items it was, but let's just say ENEMIES WERE BOUNCING all over the place.
misty turret
aquatic blast or w/e it is + tidal dash in styx is hilarious
forest marsh
That's always a lot of fun
errant linden
Oh. Oops-
Now I have to retype it. ;;
I was saying that I got the heroic knock back boon that did a lot of damage, aquatic blast, and uhh, there was this item that would do a double knock back effect.
errant linden
It was a bow build.
fading garden
when you say aquatic blast, are you referring to breaking wave?
errant linden
I think-- I gotta look for the exact name in a second.
spiral badge
Quick someone does wall damage count toward your special for draining cutter
errant linden
I also had the hammer upgrade where you didn't have to charge.
misty turret
yeah breaking wave
forest marsh
Do you mean the Poseidon legendary Second Wave?
misty turret
idk why i remember it as aquatic blast
spiral badge
I know it can be temperamental about what takes the life of the enemy
fading garden
It does sound like they got second wave
errant linden
I THINK SO? I am still new to all the name,s. ;;;
forest marsh
Was it orange?
errant linden
Yes.
forest marsh
Then yes, it was Second Wave
errant linden
I wish I wasn't in the middle of a run so I could get the exact names.
fading garden
does knockback affect bosses?
sonic crypt
I know it can be temperamental about what takes the life of the enemy
I've seen doom effects work, so I would assume wall damge would as well
errant linden
It does, I believe!
spiral badge
Oh good, fingers crossed
errant linden
I can definitely go back in my VOD and check exactly for it.
I was able to beat Hades with 0 death defiances coming in, so I did a ton of damage.
misty turret
my 32 heat run got real lucky bc phase 2 hades pretty much didnt spin at all now that i think about it
lasered first so i got to melt a bit and then p2.5 was like skulls and lasers only
errant linden
I love it when that happens.
The only bad thing with my knock back build was that whenever I shot at something in a big room, it was would fly so far away I would get hit a lot which is why I lost two deaths defiance during my run. ;;;;
misty turret
also i think one of the main reasons i was able to win is because i got rid of FO 
FO is just too much with everything else
spiral badge
So how do folks rank the punishments of the gods in trial rooms
I think Athena is the easiest by far
Followed by Poseidon and maybe aphro? Not sure who would be the hardest, I avoid Zeus and ares like the plague generally out of ritual
spiral badge
Oh, thatās nice
forest marsh
Yup, Thanatos encounters, NPC chambers, after boss fights end, and during survival rooms
spiral badge
I never knew
What triggers survival rooms? I feel like I havenāt seen one in foreeeeeeeeeever
eternal wasp
time slows for no one
except thannypoo we love him
forest marsh
If you run with Tight Deadline it disables survival rooms
misty turret
survival rooms don't appear on TD yeah
forest marsh
When I said survival rooms I just meant that the timer in general stops, to be clear
spiral badge
I see
forest marsh
Useful if you're trying to get a fast in-game time
spiral badge
Are survival rooms worth more for gold? Is it ever useful not to take TD for the heat?
I donāt think Iāve turned it off since I got the pact
forest marsh
Standard gold drops from enemies as far as I know
misty turret
TD1 has basically no risk unless you play super conservative with the shield or something
spiral badge
Yeah TD1 is basically no timer for me. I can go however slow I please and if I donāt die itās plenty of time
misty turret
i've had like 18+ minutes going into hades
spiral badge
Well, I beat my pb for heat and time at 18 heat, but felt a little dirty doing it š¤¢
I usually 100% Styx every run but TD3 made me go straight to hades after I (mercifully) got a 2-sack
In other news Talos still A+
Question
Nemesis
Does the special need to connect for the crit buff to activate or do you just need to throw out a special?
proven osprey
throw a special
spiral badge
Oh joy
proven osprey
yup
spiral badge
Thatās great
proven osprey
or rather, it would be terrible if you had to connect
spiral badge
oh I donāt think it would be horrible, 3 seconds is pretty generous in the thick of things
proven osprey
I mean most of the time you're hitting something
spiral badge
But itās definitely much better without
proven osprey
but it would matter a lot
spiral badge
Thatās true, youād need to make sure it refreshed the stack every time it hit if it was that way
Or it would be terrible
fair wraith
Imagine if eris only got the buff if you hit something with the special while standing in it
misty turret
bruh
spiral badge
Cursed_thoughts
fair wraith
It wouldnāt nearly as powerful as it is now
forest marsh
Would just mean rocket cluster would be even more meta
spiral badge
Boutta go for a meme shackle nemesis run
misty turret
i've never seen eris as really "the best" or as great as people claim but i'd be open for someone to enlighten me
vale imp
i still have yet to get rocket cluster on the gun
spiral badge
So @ pajama day I was having an argument with someone in here yesterday on that
And I will say this for eris, delta chamber really changes up the tempo of how you play with eris rail for the better
Because youāre constantly keeping your special up and out without having to time reloads
But once that is satisfied, oof
misty turret
i've literally never gotten delta chamber or clusters from hammers on gun 
fair wraith
Cluster is so much fun
fair wraith
Especially with Artemis
proven osprey
Because youāre constantly keeping your special up and out without having to time...
We have a high heat player who thinks the same, especially when things gets laggy on switch
spiral badge
And eris is a flat 75% buff, so Zeus gets extra broken on the rail
proven osprey
Focus on others things
proven osprey
Delta chamber can be a really good qol hammer
spiral badge
Mmhmmmmm
fair wraith
Thatās kinda how I feel about long knuckle on fists
proven osprey
And @fossil compass actually thinks it's the only way for him to reach 53 heat iirc
fair wraith
Iāve been told itās not that great
But just from a QoL perspective itās a ton of help
spiral badge
Itās why I argue in favor of the zag rail, even though it can definitely be worse on paper than the other ones. QoL and ergonomic changes matter big time in games like this
proven osprey
I mean, Breaching cross exists
misty turret
ok done with the "use all the mirror talents" prophecy
easier than i thought bc arthur is a dumb and easy weapon
at least lower heats it is
fair wraith
Breaching cross and explosive upper are the best on fists
spiral badge
@fair wraith I hard-take long knuckle every time and fists are my favorite weapon fwiw. Reason being Long Knuckle is an anti-flame wheel weapon and rounds out the one weak range the fists have
fair wraith
But you wonāt always get them and if I donāt see either, Long knuckle is my first choice
proven osprey
Iāve been told itās not that great
The thing is 60% seems fine but the base is just too low to make it relevant
spiral badge
little bit of range goes a long way
spiral badge
Nooooooo Iām a coward
misty turret
fast armored flame wheels are an abomination
rare kindle
Donāt listen to fox, youāre supposed to kite away from the flame wheels until they die on their own
misty turret
just block with shield smh smh smh smh
shield is literally the best weapon because blocking and i WILL die on this hill
spiral badge
Yeah I take long knuckle exclusively because it solves the flame wheel problem, among other things
but explosive upper is S-tier for sure
dry ember
Donāt listen to fox, youāre supposed to kite away from the flame wheels until th...
Coward.
fair wraith
I mean kiting them does let you position better
fair wraith
Either for doors/wells/chaos gate
Or just getting in the corner to pull the spawn points
misty turret
kiting them is significantly harder with ruthless reflex but i like the dodge chance and its not stockholm syndrome
spiral badge
What are the better sword hammers and why am I addicted to cursed slash
misty turret
only 4 aspects left https://i.imgur.com/XONJtHp.png
the +300% vs armor one is great
i'll never not take that
fair wraith
Talking about malphon is reminding me of my most recent ME speedrun attempt; where I took a massive gamble in tartarus by taking an erebus gate to get rare crop on my Ares attack and Athena special
proven osprey
Depends on the aspect
fair wraith
My pc crashed
misty turret
for arthur greater consecration does wonders for the DR
so you can actually dodge and have the DR
fair wraith
I did actually get rare crop but I blue screened almost immediately after
spiral badge
@fair wraith rip
proven osprey
What are the better sword hammers and why am I addicted to cursed slash
Double edge is generally good for every sword. Arthur can make use of the attack ones that others aspects usually hate (backstab awesome)
forest marsh
Dying for a new seed
proven osprey
I'm exaggerating
spiral badge
Ohhhhh
proven osprey
I mean double edge makes Nemesis incredible
spiral badge
Why the special hammer out of curiosity? Would the double dash attack not be preferred for the crit chance?
proven osprey
<@238040913715265537> interesting, what others does Arthur like?
Shadow slash, Double edge, greater consecration is fine
Shadow slash is king
Double edge is the double dash strike
The one you're referring to is double nova
spiral badge
So is anyone talking about how the shackle is a little bonkers these days
misty turret
shackle is amazing yes š·š
spiral badge
Iām on a nemesis shackle run right now and it might taper off in Elysium but boy howdy did I just shred Tartarus
misty turret
unfortunately god keepsakes for making a starting build early on are more helpful imo
but shackle is still nice
spiral badge
I really, really wish there was a consistent way to amp up chaos chance for shackle runs
Thatād be nice
forest marsh
We all want more Chaos 
Alas...
misty turret
the best i can do is aspect of chaos to hear chaos themself taunt the enemies šæ
spiral badge
Speaking of seeds
How does resetting a seed actually work
Because I donāt usually give runs up, but if I do its in the first couple rooms. And when I do I notice I always get the same pattern of boons and upgrades when I restart
forest marsh
The game generates a new seed for every chamber based on some things that I won't get into, but the first seed will always be the same if you select 'Give Up' and restart the run. If you die, you get a new starting seed. Very simplified explanation
fair wraith
Thatās why speedrun recordings start with a death
forest marsh
For unseeded, anyway
fair wraith
If youāre competing on unseeded you gotta prove itās unseeded
dry ember
Personally I find that practice silly
spiral badge
Ohhhhh I see
dry ember
Because you can still reset for good seeds
misty turret
em4 hades is annoying yeah
vital bay
music is sick though
misty turret
my problem with it is that im bad at video games and he hits hard
vital bay
the final part
you can get cheesed really hard
cause u can't see the orange things
have to constantly hit the green things or he heals
and u can't see
I beat him first try
and then lost both times after
like I need my broken build back
XD
I mean 2nd run I would have won if I didn't fight charon, but I thought I was good
spiral badge
Wait, does chaos count against you if you're trying to boonless your way to the secret dialog?
vital bay
I mean
misty turret
i just used arthur with shackle on 0 heat and did it first try
forest marsh
If you're going for an actual boonless run, then Chaos counts yes
vital bay
btw rama is probably better
forest marsh
But if you're just having fun then you do you
misty turret
zag bow is actually pretty good for a zag aspect though
vital bay
zag spear and zag rail both better
forest marsh
Hard disagree on base bow being worst, but that's just subjective opinion
forest marsh
No, I meant what I said š
mighty ermine
zag bow is certainly much better than zag spear i'd say
vital bay
nah just rng exploding launcher
spiral badge
Oooooo fans shackle
misty turret
yeah zag spear isnt great imo
spiral badge
Rama*
mighty ermine
even with exploding launcher, zag spear's damage is very low
spiral badge
Rama shackle sounds taaaaasty
spiral badge
Is zag sword considered down there too? Seems lackluster to me
vital bay
I mean
misty turret
i forget what zag sword is
vital bay
Zag fist + hermes + plume = 100 dodge
misty turret
move and attack speed +15%?
vital bay
how is that not brokewn
spiral badge
Zag shield is the most fun weapon in the game
misty turret
ok but consider beo shield
misty turret
i have fun with it
vital bay
you just take aphrodite cast
spiral badge
I really really like it for chonky captain America throw
misty turret
click the cast button and then bull rush 
spiral badge
And the cast is great
vital bay
and then just shield rush over and over lol
spiral badge
But it just feels so un-fluid to me
misty turret
and then everything dies
misty turret
thats an opinion and a half
narrow ravine
anyone know what cast skills speed up reload for Hera Bow builds? i cant find them anywhere
rare kindle
Yes, because on zag spear you at least have your starting health
vital bay
I think high heat with guan yu is unplayable
misty turret
GY good because healing smilers
spiral badge
several people are typing
rare kindle
And I think as long as you don't pair it with twin shot, explosive shot is oddly good on rama bow
misty turret
explosive shot on rama is stinky
mighty ermine
high heat GY is pretty free if you can get charged skewer
misty turret
twin shot rama is great tho
opal lodge
free is a word we throw around a lot
spiral badge
Is guan yu skewer really that great
opal lodge
LOL
rare kindle
just accept your quasi melee life
opal lodge
but yeah GY skewer is really good
mighty ermine
i'm being facetious of course
spiral badge
Yeah double shot rams owns bones
misty turret
skewer being da special or?
opal lodge
ah
mighty ermine
but i don't think high heat GY is impossible or anything
vital bay
if you need a certain hammer upgrade
opal lodge
just very different from other weaps i think
vital bay
for something to work
mighty ermine
yeah
vital bay
its super flip
misty turret
hades spear is a guilty pleasure of mine
regal garden
what does facetious mean
vital bay
you can't reroll hammer
regal garden
i love hades spear
vital bay
@regal garden
mighty ermine
what does facetious mean
being silly in context of a serious discussion essentially
misty turret
treating serious issues with inappropriate humor
mighty ermine
i call charged skewer high heat GY free when what i mean is moreso like, makes high heat GY a lot less painful
mighty ermine
right
misty turret
i die with GY too much because unfortunately i am bad at video games
opal lodge
why would you ping someone who has "dont ping" in their username lol
i die with GY a lot too
its just a practice thing
vital bay
why would you ping someone who has "dont ping" in their username lol
that is the joke
fair wraith
Charged skewer arte special is why GY is my favorite aspect of the spear
rare kindle
does GY ever feel good to play?
opal lodge
and GY doesnt forgive mistakes
misty turret
sometimes GY is fun
fair wraith
That and the fact that I hate the base kit of spear
vital bay
can u get exploding luancher with GY
rare kindle
I always run into trouble with styx with GY
vital bay
or incompatible
mighty ermine
can u get exploding luancher with GY
no
fair wraith
It feels awkward
misty turret
i had a run where i healed >100 health on hades
fair wraith
For me bosses are where I struggle with GY
misty turret
massive spin
mighty ermine
And I think as long as you don't pair it with twin shot, explosive shot is oddly...
honestly disagree
misty turret
or quick spin
mighty ermine
it makes power shots unreasonable to pull off, which is awful when rama power shots are so potent to begin with
misty turret
rama is good yeah
regal garden
maybe do 7 heat
misty turret
i think my next 32 will be shield or sword
vital bay
and you are chillin
mighty ermine
doing damage with rama's special isn't really the point most of the time
it's to supplement your attack
misty turret
rama special does like 0.3 damage
regal garden
the specials damage seems
vital bay
if you are picking bad things
regal garden
to like
vital bay
it is bad
vital bay
nah it travels to enemies nearby
misty turret
a real downside of rama would be its slower charge speed
vital bay
if you hit 1
mighty ermine
even with zeus, dio, or ares, special damage isn't going to touch competent use of the attack after shared suffering
misty turret
rama special is actually pretty good at applying status
if you want to use it for something beyond SS that is
misty turret
thats like 1.5 regular attacks of rama at that point
regal garden
that sounds impossible
misty turret
has anyone even cleared 64 heat normally?
regal garden
really?
vital bay
that is how broken rama bow is
misty turret
the highest iāve seen is like 59 or 60
regal garden
also how does shared suffering work
opal lodge
"someone"
regal garden
like a brief explanation
opal lodge
tailesque is in this convo and he's done 60
shared suffering applies 60% of the attack damage to an enemy you tag with the special
vital bay
maybe it is 60
misty turret
anything marked with it takes 60% of the damage you do with your attack to any enemy (including the marked one)
rare kindle
60% of attack damage at max level
rare kindle
that doesn't include status effects btw
vital bay
most heat
rare kindle
just the raw damage
opal lodge
this also applies to the enemy youre striking, if you attack them directly and they have the mark
opal lodge
so they would take 160% attack damage at max level
vital bay
one day I will beat 64 heat
regal garden
take the percentage of that
regal garden
oh
opal lodge
you want to special everything before attacking it if you want max damage
theres some enemies you can kill with just the attack though
spiral badge
@misty turret go zeus shield and get zeus'd the **** up bro. Bolts for days from that thicc disc bro. Get so billowy and jacked up on bolts volts you can barely fit through the door bro
regal garden
what if theres only one enemy
opal lodge
it still applies to that enemy
misty turret
the enemy still takes +60%
regal garden
oh
regal garden
so at my current level itd take +38 percent damage
vital bay
artemis crit with perfect shot + suffering damage is nutty
spiral badge
Oooooooof
mighty ermine
that is how broken rama bow is
i didn't make it to 60 by being carried by a "broken" weapon
regal garden
is rama good against the champions of elysium
misty turret
chiron
rama
regal garden
oh
opal lodge
then shoot
regal garden
that sounds broken
rare kindle
Apparently if you go all in on zeus special rama special can carry
opal lodge
and theyd take 138%
its pretty good
sure it can
the thing is
you need like double strike, jolted and the legendary
misty turret
why would you use rama special for damage
opal lodge
when you could be doing just as much damage with deadly strike + hunter dash
if not more
misty turret
like what would be the point beyond Itās Funny!ā¢ļø
vital bay
why would you use rama special for damage
because we are big brains here
mighty ermine
you're doing all that work to get special-only to a similar level as just making use of shared suffering attacks with a single attack boon
spiral badge
Zeus bro
rare kindle
But yeah, the attack hits really hard
misty turret
all that for it to be comparable to attack with a lvl 1 heartbreak strike smilers
regal garden
is it possible to do an only dash run
misty turret
yeah there are some funnies you can do with dashes
rare kindle
Yep, but sea storm got nerfed so the dash no longer qualifies
vital bay
100% can do without heat
regal garden
like only attack with the dash
misty turret
tidal dash and breaking wave can abuse most everything outside bosses i think
regal garden
there's a poseidon boon that boosts damage against bosses on knockaway boons
vital bay
I lowkey feel like it wouldn't be that hard
just a matter of getting right boons
and hermes dashes probably
regal garden
yeah
vital bay
at least on no heat
spiral badge
Honestly off the top of my head area plus Hermes sounds pretty choppy
regal garden
maybe rhe right keepsakes as well
misty turret
my favorite wep is probably fists and least favorite probably spear
vital bay
but you have to rng boon first chamber
opal lodge
neither are out of the realm of possibility
spiral badge
Drop the instant transmission technique on 'em and then 'em to shreds
vital bay
next time I get epic Poseidon dash first chamber
misty turret
fists are just dumb fun that i enjoy every time
opal lodge
dash only is actually super easy/safe
since you have full i-frames throughout the dash
spiral badge
Fists own bones
vital bay
probably just grindy
opal lodge
its hard
vital bay
no dash run
misty turret
and then i dont like spear because its just a boring weapon
vital bay
wait why avoid eurydice
misty turret
although honorable mention to shield for being a boring wep bc blocking is a dumb mechanic
rare kindle
and hope for movement speed from hermes?
opal lodge
eurydice requires a dash
misty turret
thatās right you have to dash across the gap
vital bay
like what heat are we talking
opal lodge
you hope for movement speed + rush delivery
spiral badge
Real Men Play Shield Like Blocking Doesn't Exist
vital bay
0?
rare kindle
if you get unlucky with styx some rooms require a dash too
vital bay
cause 0 heat it seems easy
opal lodge
i did it with zag sword for the memes
but yeah ranged/shield is probably easier
for a no dash run
misty turret
hard to play shield without blocking when bull rush is integral to 1/2 the aspects lmao
vital bay
and you probably can't go
100% dodge build
cause u need to dash to stack plume
so you cant just get insane rng
misty turret
zag fists + hermes call thing + hermes dodge + plume i guess?
spiral badge
Bullhonky shield is just fine minus the dash
misty turret
bull rush counts as blocking afaik
opal lodge
ok
misty turret
like youāre invincible from the front during the charge i think
opal lodge
i guess so
spiral badge
Bullrush*
spiral badge
Zag shield has the attack upgraded so who cares about bullrush
misty turret
bull rush is an attack so i mean yeah you would care about it
spiral badge
Zeus shield is about attacking and specialing at the same time so who cares about bullrush
vital bay
but I heard there is no unique dialogue for escaping first try
and that is just straight garbage
spiral badge
Beo you've got me there
misty turret
also its a good Get Me The Heck Outta Here tool
regal garden
i mean you have
spiral badge
And I don't play chaos
regal garden
no bonuses first run
rare kindle
some dialogue is slightly altered
regal garden
you have 50 health
vital bay
its been done
regal garden
no mirror upgrades
opal lodge
fresh file is pretty fun
regal garden
its possible yes
opal lodge
its just a different playstyle
vital bay
I am pretty sure
regal garden
but also incredibly hard so they probably presumed most people wouldn't
opal lodge
yeah it's been done
vital bay
I could do it first 10 trys
spiral badge
I would want to try a fresh run but i. Screech internally at the thought of one dash
rare kindle
I think vorime holds the record
misty turret
I would want to try a fresh run but i. Screech internally at the thought of one ...
i play with ruthless reflex ama
opal lodge
21:44 RTA for first run
regal garden
rta?
opal lodge
real time
regal garden
oh
spiral badge
Nope couldn't be me need my safety blanket
opal lodge
in game time was like mid teens?
vital bay
I honestly think
opal lodge
its a pretty insane run if you havent seen it yet
vital bay
I would have more trouble theseus and asterius than hades
vital bay
wait no one has beat
medic yet
this is how you get speed run world record
you take zag bow
and crit every hit
rng guide me
regal garden
max level heroic pressure points and clean kill
empty heron
Technically wouldn't it be a better show of skill to play a modified version of the game where you always crit and get the boons you need?
empty heron
I mean you're right. The number of spliced runs in the speedrunning community is astounding
I'm convinced no world record is legit
lean knot
Yeah what?
mighty ermine
that is some serious skepticism
vital bay
Dream really out here ruining speedrunning
regal garden
how about
a run where you never take damage
id you take any damage you restart it
regal garden
you run zagreus fists with no bonuses
misty turret
that would be interesting to say the least
regal garden
to dodge outside of it
misty turret
nohit run
regal garden
and rely on the 15 percent
empty heron
That should be a pact of punishment. 1hp, no healing or increasing.
regal garden
abd hope rng gives you all the dodges
vital bay
no I bet you
I would never get hit by bosses
but some rat in styx
would end me
XDDD
vital bay
where he looks at map
regal garden
a stray laser from a snakestone
regal garden
or one of hades minions
vital bay
so funny
misty turret
brightsword in hades fight snipes you with a projectile
hilarious
or the splitters
vital bay
regal garden
after you miracously dodge every attack until that point
vital bay
for anyone wondering what I was talking about
regal garden
with 15 percent dodge
you walk into an exploding skulls radius by dodging slightly off time and get hit
misty turret
imagine how many runs would die in tartarus to numbskulls lmao
vital bay
XD
regal garden
i feel like you would have to run hard labour 100 percent
misty turret
or styx from the rats
regal garden
what if you just stood in front of the flame wheels
vital bay
I decided
misty turret
every area has something
vital bay
I can't make it to styx
misty turret
šæ
vital bay
lava op
regal garden
and your dodge protected you from all of them
regal garden
a leap of faith
regal garden
ok new idea
misty turret
assuming you hit them
vital bay
I mean athena dash
regal garden
no deflect boons
vital bay
is a must
regal garden
you have to rely fully on the 15 percent dodge
misty turret
deflecting an explosion be like
regal garden
this sounds possible in theory but i think the amount of times 15 percent dodge would have to activate
would make it so mathematically improbable
vital bay
waot
misty turret
15^[amount of times you have to dodge]%
regal garden
its a good song
ok so how many times are you hit on average every run would you say
regal garden
ok
vital bay
so your saying its possible
regal garden
would that be enough for like
tartarus /asphodel
if you were careful at least tartarus
misty turret
my point being to get any significant amount of dodges in a row like that is practically impossible
vital bay
nah bro
misty turret
youād have better odds going arthur and hoping you can room clear without enemies hitting you
vital bay
I have zeus blessing irl
its like 99% for me
bro arthur
is so slow
you are gonna get hit
misty turret
you can at least room clear tartarus and asphodel with relative ease
even boonless
arthur can also dash in combos
vital bay
any run u can devise is possible
vital bay
64 heat boonless base whatever weapon no dash is technically possible
regal garden
has anyone beaten thst
vital bay
btw
I think you are wrong about odds
I am like 100% sure there is a hitless run
somewhere
misty turret
if you play well you can avoid getting hit without abusing dodge chance
regal garden
ans no athena boons
pastel elk
what are the best boons for hades spear
misty turret
massive/quick spin always helps
vital bay
I am saying
someone has done withut athena dash probably
and without 15% bonus from zag fist
regal garden
if you haven't
stood in front of ten flame wheels and dodged them all
as they hit you
can you really call it a hitless run
sonic crypt
flame wheels 
jagged grove
flame wheels by themselves aren't annyoing
cause u can just run around
and they'll run into things like headless chickens
frail schooner
flame wheels waste td time
tame zodiac
I've been hunting down heart rend for Arthur for a couple of runs now. RNG isn't on my side lol. Still hits like a truck, but I'm really curious what the crits are like with heart rend
sonic crypt
I know I've done 1.8k with heart rend but don't recall if that was backstab
spiral badge
Fated Authority question for the veterans in the group
Is there some kind of soft mechanic that limits the total # of boons you can pick up over a period? Or is it RNG if I roll my way into an Artemis legendary by the time Iām out of Tartarus with FA
sonic crypt
I'm not a vet by any stretch but I can't imagine there's anything other than hitting the required boons to trigger the chance of getting the legendary