more interesting to play
#h1-builds-and-combat
regal garden
i need to max it though but honestly
i feel maxing nemesis matters less than some other aspects like eris
if that makes sense
fading garden
Nemesis is alright. It can be good, I have just never been a fan of dash strike spam
spiral badge
For spear Achilles really is the king here. Guan yu has fat stacks of damage but Achilles has the mobility, the flexibility of enabling cast builds, and a great general damage buff
Sword is honestly low-tier for beginners
regal garden
hades is a good spear if you want to do some spinning
spiral badge
Too fragile, too dependent o tight execution
fading garden
Sword is honestly low-tier for beginners
Not a beginner, but thanks
regal garden
works well with some spear hammers
i find sword to be probably my least favourite going generally
spiral badge
Understood, this discussion was tailored towards the earlier end of the progression chain
wide light
I should have another killer run this time around
regal garden
depending on how i plan it obv
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So then, for early shield builds I will up front admit that I don’t mess with chaos shield and don’t really intend to
regal garden
i might try a poseidon build for the first time next
i feel like zagreus shield is op enough for early shield
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But see above for my recommendations on the zag aspect of shield
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I think zag shield is the best early-game weapon in Hades
regal garden
probably right
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or Chiron bow
fading garden
I can agree to that
regal garden
i think chiron is less early game
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and by early game I mean for beginners
regal garden
because you aren't gonna be maxing chiron out in any early game
fading garden
W+M1?
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That’s what’s great about zag shield is it’s only 5 blood to be fully operational
regal garden
yeah
fading garden
Ah.
honest jetty
just be like me and max out chaos shield as soon as possible
fading garden
Zag rail is 🤢
regal garden
its upgrades are simple just gives you more clip
spiral badge
Let’s see, honestly I would kind of just avoid the bow early in the game. All the good aspects cost too much blood
@fading garden you take that the hell back
We’re getting there
fading garden
I will not
honest jetty
does the boost from pierced butterfly persist when you unequip it?
spiral badge
No
wide light
Alright, so let's go over my current build walking into hades fight. This will take a bit of typing.
honest jetty
okay gotcha
regal garden
i kind of ager but i still like the original bow for its crit potential
fading garden
I really dislike zag rail. It's the most restrictive of the rails
Most of the time, Eris is just better
spiral badge
It’s the most flexible, how can you say that
regal garden
i mean it's a very blank canvas the zagreus rail
spiral badge
^^^^^
regal garden
i think its probably the rail that works the best with the shotgun hammer because of the pure spam you get from the extra ammo
regal garden
the ammo offset is completely removed by your extra 12 ammo
spiral badge
Zag rail + shotgun is a 12 round mag, which is lots to work with
fading garden
Saying a weapon is good because of a hammer does not make it good.
cunning urchin
Zag Rail with Spread Fire is meta, yeah.
regal garden
i was using an example of one way
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I’m saying a weapon is flexible because it’s versatile and effective no matter what you throw at it dawg
regal garden
also i havent tried the shotgun with any other rail to be clear
spiral badge
Would you like to know what 24 Zeus rounds do to a room of mobs?
regal garden
maybe if i can get it next eris run
placid tundra
Note to self: Don't take the anvil if you don't think you need to, especially on the Sword
I just lost a run to the final boss that I likely would have won if not for getting an unlucky Cursed Slash
fading garden
But, it's not though. Honeslty, basic rail damage is really weak and there isn't really much to capitalize off of
regal garden
oh
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Yeah anvil is a cursed item
regal garden
anvil wow
cunning urchin
But yes, Eris is just better than Zag Rail.
regal garden
yes but zag is more of a blank canvas for general builds
fading garden
Not really. Wanna do lightning attack? Go for it! Eris will boost the damage
spiral badge
Better in a strictly numerical sense, but I argue adaptability has its place as a quality among weapons, and zag aspect is full of that
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Eris does It faster
fading garden
No, better
cunning urchin
Spread Fire is really the only saving grace for Zag Rail. Eris is better at everything else, and Hestia works with no hammers or boons.
fading garden
12 extra bullets isn't super great if the damage is so weak to begin with
wide light
Chiron bow (lvl 2)
160 doom damage on attack
67% special damage bonus, with 20% to crit
112 cast damage, 10% crit
Divine dash
Dionysus call
Perfect shot
Twin shot
26% bonus damage on everything
Crits deal 15% more
55% damage buff
15% evasion chance
I swear, if I lose this hades fight.
fading garden
Good luck!
spiral badge
Good Luck
Keep your distance
Mind your pillars in the 2nd fight
Keep away from those lasers for now
wide light
Or just hug him
wide light
Yes
coral cave
Zag rail is 🤢
zag rail is pretty ok
desert cypress
Hug your father
wide light
Figured the spears would keep you in
spiral badge
Clear your space to move around in first, then fight
fading garden
I gave up on zag rail last night. I really really tried to give it a chance, but it just wasn't good
coral cave
maybe youre just not good /s
cunning urchin
Not good? Zag Rail is excellent. It's just not Eris.
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On the contrary, I just clacked my PB with zag rail zeus’d up to hell and back
fading garden
Thanks for the pep talk
fading garden
-_-
forest marsh
Remember to keep it friendly, folks. Tone doesn't translate well in text
cunning urchin
They did put "/s". :P
fading garden
And it certainly wasn't. Thanks wightfyre.
What else is zag rail good at besides zeus and spread fire? Genuine question
desert cypress
What’s /s? I know /j means joking.
forest marsh
Sarcastic
placid tundra
Concentrated fire?
forest marsh
Yeah
wide light
Out of phase 1, full health, no more acorn, full call.
coral cave
i mean zag rail is pretty good with support fire
fading garden
Support fire is a fun boon
desert cypress
Yes it is
coral cave
support fire is just good overall
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Bless support fire
coral cave
unless youre using a slow weapon
cunning urchin
Same builds you'd do on Eris, just less effective.
placid tundra
I like zeus probably more than I should on fists/rail; not that it isn't bad, but I should branch out more
spiral badge
Can someone explain to me how you’re supposed to A: Use Arthur and B: Finish the Game
honest jetty
even on a slow weapon you literally can't go wrong with support fire
it's just always good
forest marsh
A: Do big hits
B: Don't get hit 
spiral badge
Preferably together
cunning urchin
I mean you can get hit a lot with Excalibur, it doesn't really matter too much.
forest marsh
True
cunning urchin
Go for Deadly Strike or Heartbreak Strike.
fading garden
Can someone explain to me how you’re supposed to A: Use Arthur and B: Finish the...
I did a damage reduction build yesterday with Arthur. It worked surprisingly well
cunning urchin
Applying Weak and staying in your Holy Aura gives you so much damage reduction already.
cunning urchin
Ruthless Reflex and Abyssal Blood add even more.
placid tundra
On that note, why does Beowulf have a 10% incoming damage increase? It seems really arbitrary and rather small
fading garden
Yeah. My last run I was only taking 19% damage
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That checks out with how Arthur plays I guess, makes sense. Thanks!
fading garden
Simple Nerdy: Beo does big damage. They have to counteract that huge plus somehow
cunning urchin
I like Heartbreak Strike in Tartarus, then going for Zeus' Aid and Smoldering Air after that.
desert cypress
I’m assuming you unlock the companions by giving ambrosia or something
forest marsh
Correct
fading garden
Yep
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@cunning urchin ooooooo I like that
fading garden
Arthur sword is also really fun when it has deflect
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@desert cypress the answer with unlocking anything character related in this game is always more ambrosia and nectar
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It may not happen immediately
It may be locked behind dialog and quests to do this or that
But the answer is always more ambrosia or nectar
desert cypress
So in a way ambrosia is just better nectar
spiral badge
Yup
And it’s a very handy resource to turn into blood when you’ve finished all your character side quests and still have weapons to unlock
desert cypress
It’s obtained by the most annoying character then
fading garden
Haha, yep
placid tundra
I appreciate how the game opens up in that regard once you start getting victories; you can obtain the equivalent of 3 blood per run if you play well, which is not a small amount
desert cypress
The bot got mad at me for using a more direct word for it
spiral badge
Yup it’s not bad
fading garden
Unless you decide to kill Asterius last. Then you get it from him 
fading garden
So you don't get the ambrosia from Theseus
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To not hear his voice anymore, obviously
forest marsh
Ideally I try to kill them at the same time (to save time) but not always an option
honest jetty
just think of it as if you're robbing the ambrosia from theseus
fading garden
Yeah, speedrunners seem good at smashing them to bits
honest jetty
don't worry he deserves it
desert cypress
I prefer to not have the god’s wrath combined with the Minotaur’s
But that’s just me
fading garden
Do you wanna get the ambrosia from Theseus though? That is the real question.
honest jetty
yeah because i don't like the idea of beating up asterius for his ambrosia
desert cypress
Yes, because I can kill him and laugh
honest jetty
theseus is always fair game
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This just in: curse of nausea + serrated point spear is not bad
All my homies hate Theseus
fading garden
Curse of nausea is an incredibly good boon
honest jetty
it's honestly hilarious how good serrated point is
desert cypress
I’m not a big spear fan, I like the shield better
spiral badge
Same
fading garden
I feel like that is a really common opinion in the beginning
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But of the spear hammers, serrated point is A+
desert cypress
I mean I don’t hate the spear
honest jetty
speaking as a (relative) newbie i've come to enjoy all of the weapons except coronacht
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I feel like it’s because Achilles is not immediately obviously great and it takes full blood to be worth its salt
@honest jetty play Chiron and rediscover the bow
honest jetty
i have
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😦
desert cypress
I don’t mind the bow, but I get myself killed trying to powershot
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B-b-b-bb-b-bbbut special go brrrr
desert cypress
And the lack of knockback is a bit of a detriment
cunning urchin
You mainly want to do Dash-Strikes with Coronacht.
spiral badge
^^^
honest jetty
lowkey my attack was doing more damage than my specials that run
bc twin shot + artemis attack
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Oof XL
honest jetty
special was nice for chill though
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What was on your special?
honest jetty
demeter
desert cypress
Gun missiles go pew pew
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Ah Demeter, that’s very very useful on Chiron
honest jetty
it was a decent enough combo but not my favorite
cunning urchin
Frost Flourish is not really what you pick if you want damage.
desert cypress
The gun is so good, especially since I bound reload to m4
honest jetty
was fun seeing my charged shots hit ~800 at a time tho
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Demeter+Chiron is just one of those solid combos. Not flashy, not show stopping, but decent damage and chill has great utility
honest jetty
talos fists and chaos shield are probably my favorite weapons by a wide margin thus far
cunning urchin
Frost Flourish and Divine Flourish have literally the lowest +% on Special.
spiral badge
Mmmmmmmm Talos fists
honest jetty
talos fists with poseidon special are absolutely hilarious
cunning urchin
DPS builds on Chiron are Heart Rend and Low Tolerance.
cunning urchin
No. Heartbreak Strike + Deadly Flourish.
desert cypress
And it even rhymes
drowsy stirrup
man.. i am really reconsidering high confidence in EM3+.. the lack of HP hurttts
turbid needle
does attack speed from hermes make charging bow faster?
cunning urchin
Nah number of hits doesn't really matter for average DPS. Just Special has higher base damage, you Attack first anyway so you can apply Weak with that, and Deadly Flourish has better crit chance and +% than Deadly Strike to get even more out of your Heart Rend crits.
honest jetty
ah i see
cunning urchin
Swift Strike only affects regular Attacks with Coronacht. It doesn't affect Dash-Strikes.
cunning urchin
Yeah.
honest jetty
anyways chaos shield is the best weapon because it's the only one that talks to you
desert cypress
Yes
honest jetty
yeah
desert cypress
Sometimes
spiral badge
Thats great
honest jetty
it's neat yeah
desert cypress
They said ruination once when I killed an enemy with a trap
forest marsh
Chaos talking to you through the shield (and the Chaos gates) is honestly a highlight of the game
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Is there any correlation between when chaos speaks to you from a gate and her boon rarity chance that we know of?
dry ember
yknow, despite having the name Chaos, Chaos is surprisingly chill.
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When she summons me I sometimes really have to weigh it out lol. Like really chaos, I’m looking at a hammer right here, you going to make it worth my while??
forest marsh
There's no correlation between when they talk to you and in-game buffs, no
spiral badge
Ok lol
wide light
Managed to beat hades
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Great job 👍🏻
wide light
Being able to pretty much 1 shot the skulls helped
dry ember
sometimes chaos beckons you when there is a chaos gate in a room
then you go down
and Chaos be like
forest marsh
Chaos also goes by they/them pronouns 
dry ember
why are you here?
forest marsh
I mean, I think there's some dialog about Chaos being somewhat disconnected from time, isn't there? 
desert cypress
Yeah, chaos doesn’t have a gender. They are the incarnation of the primordial chaos, not a person.
dry ember
technically no one in the game is a person
desert cypress
Well, yeah
cunning urchin
That's a lie.
wide light
Well, Zagreus
wide light
Although I'm not sure what he'd be controller of
desert cypress
They’re all characters based on Greek Mythos
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Wait, wasn’t Theseus at least a real person? Or was there no king of Athens named Theseus?
wide light
Perhaps god of rebellion?
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I’m not that up to date on my actual Greek history
dry ember
there is nothing like rare cropping your divine dash while having a common deadly strike
honest jetty
in-universe zagreus is speculated to be the god of blood and/or life
desert cypress
Achilles was a real person
forest marsh
Although I'm not sure what he'd be controller of
This is actually addressed somewhat in the game already
cunning urchin
They're not just "characters". I watch Lady Aphrodite's streams all the time. She's a real person.
dry ember
idk about "real"
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that I did not know
forest marsh
If you finish Zagreus' codex entry, you will see what I am referring to
desert cypress
They're not just "characters". I watch Lady Aphrodite's streams all the time. Sh...
How does she manage to stay on Twitch with her... ahem... attire
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magical hair are next level green screens
cunning urchin
Watch /courtenberry and see for yourself.
desert cypress
Hm
forest marsh
Anyway, I've sufficiently derailed the topic of this channel 
desert cypress
That you have
dry ember
it's still Hades though 
forest marsh
Just not builds and combat
desert cypress
Yep, just talking about Aphrodite’s...uh presence
cunning urchin
Like a true SGG mod. Aggy always does the same thing.
forest marsh
Nyaa, what is your favourite build for spear?
cunning urchin
Ohhh. Glad you asked! So, my favorite build for spear is Eternal Rose start and just keeping it on for the entire run and taking all of her boons.
Probably on Guan Yu, but I love it on all aspects!
forest marsh
I am entirely shocked and surprised by this answer
dry ember
forest marsh
cunning urchin
coral cave
Ohhh. Glad you asked! So, my favorite build for spear is Eternal Rose start and ...
btw you do know that olympian keepsakes only work once right
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Why don’t keepsakes refresh the “force god boon” trait after every boss fight like everything else 😭
dry ember
btw you do know that olympian keepsakes only work once right
im sure she knows lol
forest marsh
btw you do know that olympian keepsakes only work once right
Someone clearly hasn't interacted with Nyaa enough 
honest jetty
still means more chances at rare boons
dry ember
she's a veteran with a Aphrodite fixation
coral cave
i dont believe i have interacted with her before
dry ember
I guess she has an Unhealthy Fixation 
cunning urchin
Actually, they give you a better chance at her legendary for the entire run! That's the best chance you have at getting the Disciple of Aphrodite title and unlocking the true ending.
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Aphrodite gets a haircut
honest jetty
the true ending is aphrodite romance route
coral cave
nice
cunning urchin
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@cunning urchin is that guan yu recommendation entirely sarcastic or only partially
nocturne pivot
Aphro 😍
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Because I could see aphro blendering a room with guan yu’s spin
forest marsh
Nyaa's bias aside, Aphro is a solid choice for pretty much any aspect
cunning urchin
Heart Rend on Guan Yu is meta.
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Oh? Which slots?
cunning urchin
Attack and Special. Either way works.
Since your main combos are Special > Dash-Strike x2 and Special > Dash-Strike x2 > Cast.
nocturne pivot
The weapons have combos?
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Less combos and more timing windows that fit well together
cunning urchin
Well, an actual combo would be anything that stunlocks them for the duration.
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Epic rare crop in Tartarus, 2 boons in my inventory 
daring turtle
I've had that but with one boon before
dry ember
Once :D
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Biscuits
Is there ever a reason to take Demeter if you’re not into a Demeter heavy run already
I see her show up when I have a build going already and I feel so awkward
Like I might get nourished soul I guess?? Ok??
fair wraith
I once got rare crop on my ares attack and athena special in tartarus in a demeter fists speedrun attempt and my laptop crashed before I got out of tartarus
forest marsh
Very little reason to take Dem if not part of your core, in my opinion
maybe for Ravenous Will
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I know, she feels so awkward to work into a run when you’re not actively trying to build for her
Oh she’s great, it’s just awkward when she shows up after all your good slots are spoken for
Some boons like Artemis or Zeus are generally good for you no matter when are where you get them because they have lots of traits that can stack nicely into the “background” of a run. Demeter doesn’t seem to share this quality quite as well
Also sup munchlacks
opal lodge
if shes forced into your pool you can scale dmg with killing freeze/arctic blast
but shes pretty meh as a god
honest jetty
what's a fun build for achilles aspect that doesn't involve blade rifts
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I just did a serrated edge (triple dash attack) + Dio build that was pretty lol
honest jetty
i was thinking something like that could be fun yeah
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Could replace Dio with dem or Zeus and see pretty entertaining results too
honest jetty
i did a serrated dash + dem build fairly recently i think actually
but it was overshadowed by, uh, hunting blades
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3 hits per DA plus a minimum of 2 dashes is a pretty ok way to make lots of stacks of things it turns out
Jesus Christ himself is overshadowded by hunting blades lol, that doesn’t count
Also I mean if you want to pull a trigger and go bang bang bang there’s always the Aphrodite boomstick available to you, especially for Achilles
honest jetty
excellent
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Ice wine is low key one of the better duos just for making festive fog’s hitbox activate instantly
Like it’s that powerful of a tool to have that on command, forget the chill for a second
honest jetty
would have to figure out a good way to set up for both duos tho
honest jetty
demeter attack + zeus special + trippy shot might work i guess
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I mean basically you have trippy shot locked in so whatever’s your pleasure after that
honest jetty
yeah
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You could even take demeter’s call?? I think in case you wanted to preserve the attack or special slot for something else
honest jetty
ah yeah that'd do it
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One thing ill say for Demeter, a lot of her good duos accept her call and that’s a pretty easy slot to give up for her
honest jetty
zeus attack would work just as well and then i can even try for cold fusion if i'm feeling ambitious
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Mmmmm see now we’re talking
honest jetty
then special can just be whoever else shows up 
echo radish
Aphrodite
honest jetty
yeah tbh
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oooooo mini vortexes
honest jetty
okay poseidon works too i guess
echo radish
What weapon is this
honest jetty
achilles spear
honest jetty
going for scintillating feast and/or ice wine shenanigans
echo radish
Yes lighting rod works with that
honest jetty
if she shows up i'll keep it in mind
echo radish
And rest of Artemis duos aren't compatible so it won't dilute your pool
honest jetty
probably gonna have to force dem and zeus as well though
slim lynx
super nova or double nova?
surreal edge
Does the rail have a dash strike? If I were to take Artemis's dash boon, would it like, increase the damage of one shot, or do anything at all?
slim lynx
Does the rail have a dash strike? If I were to take Artemis's dash boon, would i...
you know how when you dash and then shoot or dash while shooting it fires a really quick shot?
surreal edge
Just tested it, yeah, you can see one kind of fire between the normal shots.
I guess that one shot is my dash strike then
cunning urchin
Is there ever a reason to take Demeter if you’re not into a Demeter heavy run al...
Getting four gods ensures you'll only see those four. Boons will be from random gods until you have at least 4.
So taking her boons will get you to 4 faster to ensure you see the gods you want more often over your run than if you'd skipped her for a Centaur Heart or something.
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Seeing Demeter rooms when I’m not on a Demeter run makes me wish fated authority was better
cunning urchin
Snow Burst is amazing on Cast builds or any hybrid builds that use Cast a lot.
Killing Freeze does a whole lot of damage.
formal depot
winter harvest op
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killing freeze + Chiron is something I want to try out for sure
Yeah her legendary is something
formal depot
got my first clear with a crystal meme build
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Demeter is great, I just find her harder to shoehorn into a run than most other gods
formal depot
no surface fish tho :(
cunning urchin
Killing Freeze is not really for Chiron since you'll focus your fire on single targets mostly.
formal depot
i think they meant arctic blast maybe
cunning urchin
Probably.
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‘Scuse me, arctic blast
formal depot
arctic blast on chiron would be nice
cunning urchin
20 damage from a common Killing Freeze every 0.5 seconds at common is 5 stacks of Hangover from a common Drunken Strike Lv.1.
On every enemy in the room.
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Ohhhhh thats killing freeze
What are practical ways of getting that active
I’ve only found use of that for bosses
formal depot
maybe sword or rail
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Same with Dio’s 3+ drunken enemies
formal depot
both specals have large aoe
cunning urchin
Some math on Chiron with Arctic Blast:
With Chiron you'll apply 8 > 6 > 4 > 2 > 0 stacks of Chill with Arctic Blast, and then 8 again with the next one. That's +0 damage on the first, and +80 damage on the four Volleys after that (or +100%). On average that's +64 damage or +80%. But since a lot of enemies will die well before a fifth Volley, it's a lot less than that. +50% if they die from two Volleys or +66.6% if they die from three.
Getting no extra damage on the first Volley kinda sucks, but Relentless Volley would solve that.
With Relentless Volley, Arctic Blast just becomes straightup +80 damage or +67% essentially on every Special (but it doesn't scale with Concentrated Volley).
2 > 4 > 6 > 8 > 0 stacks of Chill. It actually procs twice on every fifth Relentless Volley. So it's on average +96 or +80% damage on tanky enemies.
Which is just bosses and minibosses.
That would mean it's actually pretty good on Chiron. Especially when you factor in that Arctic Blast damage is AOE. Hitting just two enemies with it every time would double the damage it adds. Hitting three would triple it. Etc.
formal depot
i forget, does concenctrated volley work with chiron?
\
cunning urchin
It does.
formal depot
nice
cunning urchin
What are practical ways of getting that active
Just anything that hits fast or has good AOE, pretty much. Frost Strike on Malphon and just tag everything, Frost Flourish on Zeus or Chaos, Frost Flourish on Rama, etc.
formal depot
i wish breaching volley was better with chiron, i fudged a run cause i thought the piercing meant it would continuously circle the enemy
cunning urchin
lol it used to do something like that in Early Access.
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Mmmmm I should try Rameter
That sounds fun
I dig breaching volley on Chiron just for the armor shredding
formal depot
what if rama shared suffering could apply status effects? that would be interesting
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But better behavior would be nice
cunning urchin
Tailesque actually said he wants Frost Flourish over anything else on Rama at high heat.
formal depot
it would be super convenient for killing freeze, thats for sure
cunning urchin
what if rama shared suffering could apply status effects? that would be interest...
That would be broken lol it's already top tier.
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Oof, I can see entire rooms exploding with PS over that
cunning urchin
Don't need to buff Rama.
formal depot
yep
dry ember
how about my boi gilgamesh though
formal depot
wait i dont remember does doom count towards priv status?
cunning urchin
it would be super convenient for killing freeze, thats for sure
Actually, all the enemies you tagged were already hit by your Special, so you can just put Chill on your Special to get that lol.
formal depot
thats good
formal depot
wait if you have for example an enemy with chill and doom, when the doom expires will it still do 50% extra damage?
cunning urchin
All of these status curses count for Privileged Status. https://hades.gamepedia.com/Status_effects#Status_Curses
cunning urchin
Just don't get hit.
formal depot
nice
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Pretty much any status effect at all that doesn’t dissipate instantly is a curse
Pretty much everybody but Artemis has a curse, come to think of it
cunning urchin
how about my boi gilgamesh though
Cat paws and renaming it to Aspect of Nyaanyaa, you mean?
That's a great idea for a buff. I agree with you.
Lady Artemis has Marked.
formal depot
Pretty much everybody but Artemis has a curse, come to think of it
wouldnts marked count as a curse though?
dry ember
For sake of consistency it's a bit weird though
cunning urchin
"For 2.5 Seconds, victim has a higher chance of taking one Critical damage from any attack."
It's so good.
Higher chance to do 1 critical damage.
dry ember
Now imagine if Artemis legendary is that but like Cold Fusion
The debuff doesn't wear off
cunning urchin
1!
dry ember
Instead of this stupid Fully Loaded.
formal depot
that wou;d be far too op
spiral badge
@formal depot you’ve logically got me there, but no it doesn’t count
cunning urchin
Marked counts as a status curse.
formal depot
fully loaded just doesnt matter for most builds
i would gladly take a rare hunters mark over fully loaded if im not doing a cast build
formal depot
probably cause you have to apply the other effect before marked or it will get rid of it
spiral badge
Allow me to rephrase that then, all the gods have curses that allow you to regularly employ PS except Artemis
cunning urchin
Marked is only removed by a critical hit or after 2.5 seconds.
formal depot
Marked is only removed by a critical hit or after 2.5 seconds.
right
spiral badge
Gods above
What if arty had a legendary that was like cold fusion, but just removed the “critical hit” requirement from marked and left the 2.5 alone
Instead of the full 10
That might be serviceable
spiral badge
I mean, it’s pretty out there on everything thats not a boss as it is right now
Starts at 30 iirc
formal depot
that would be op, especially with clean kill or heart rend
spiral badge
given that merciful end exists in the game I don’t think its outside the power scope
As long as ME is around, frankly, I don’t think much is. Not that I mind it one bit lol
formal depot
merciful end? i never really saw the potential in it, but that might be because im just not super fond pof ares
spiral badge
Oh my
Ares go brrrrr my man
Takes a little setting up but ares go brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
formal depot
might have to look into that then :)
its a bit of a problem but i love long game builds
spiral badge
Fists, ares attack, Athena dash and special
You have to have the special to get ME, but the dash is really what activates it
Have fun 😘
formal depot
alrighty
spiral badge
Get you impending doom as well and bathe in the slaughter as your patron god intends
formal depot
noice
ive never had the chance to test it but is nourished soul + cursed slash good?
spiral badge
I mean I like cursed slash period. It’s tanky to me. Im not sure, but I seem to recall it not interacting with nourished soul??? I may be wrong though
cunning urchin
That's correct. Lifesteal isn't affected by anything.
dry ember
Yee, GY Spin, Cursed Slash, and now that one fist hammer are not affected.
formal depot
i think that actually might be because 30% is too small to actually affect the amount of hp you/re getting
cunning urchin
No effective difference.
But Lifesteal also isn't affected by Lasting Consequences.
formal depot
oh
spiral badge
2*1.3 is still 2.6 though which should round up. Methinks the streams don’t cross
daring turtle
wait, lifesteal isn't affect by LC? OOOOO that is so nice
spiral badge
They have to give your balls some kind of break lol
spiral badge
I don't think so. Didn't I see something in a recent patch note specifically fixing it for Guan Yu?
Also, sd?
opal lodge
nah they only fixed the GY attack combo
spiral badge
Ah
dry ember
Like an oversight but then was accepted.
cunning urchin
No, LC fix was for Malphon.
forest marsh
SD is Stubborn Defiance
dry ember
Do you know Athena replenish death boons?
dry ember
Well you can't normally.
spiral badge
Without athenas help?
dry ember
If you take SD and take Athena boon, you only get the passive, not the extra DD.
But if you die before taking it, leaving one empty slot
You get a DD and an SD
cunning urchin
That's a bug turned feature, yeah.
dry ember
Amir did not know about this interaction, but we told him and he decided to leave it in.
What Nyaa said.
spiral badge
I must have only stumbled on that once or twice and that's how it ended up for me. I had multiple SDs, I thought it was intended
The more you know
cunning urchin
It affects only really high heat, and fixing it would make things a lot more difficult.
spiral badge
Oh yeah that sounds like a fun interaction to chase down
Oh you mean difficult for players
That too
cunning urchin
Big part of the reason high heat is cleared so much more now than before that was known is . . . that we didn't abuse it lol.
Though of course it's only one factor. Also figured out a lot of other important things since.
surreal edge
If I have Artemis dash an another god's attack, does my dash attack still retain the boon from "attack"?
cunning urchin
Yes.
spiral badge
What even constitutes "high heat" these days
fading garden
Correct me if I am wrong, but chaos legendary with stub d only gives you a death defiance right?
cunning urchin
High heat leaderboard starts at 32 fwiw.
cunning urchin
@fading garden right.
fading garden
I think my highest is 17, so I have a long ways to go for that
forest marsh
I believe in you dackid, and Bouldy does too!
dry ember
What even constitutes "high heat" these days
Yeah 32 heat is the tentative cut off. No one wants to gatekeep heat, but at the same time the leaderboard needs a threshold to be meaningful.
However, special runs such as RI4 LC4, or just pure RI4 imo can still be submitted due to the unique nature of those runs.
cunning urchin
32 is the minimum for mirrorless and boonless high heat.
For the leaderboard. Anything below is filtered out automatically.
dry ember
dang
vale imp
rountine inspection pact, means your entire mirror is crossed out
forest marsh
Boonless is exactly as it sounds - can't use any boons
gusty rapids
you avoid boon rooms as much as possible, if you have to take one you try to take a useless boon or not use the thing the boon affects (aka if u get a cast boon, u cant cast), and try to sell the boon asap
echo radish
But why does it have to be 32 heat for boonless?
gusty rapids
32 is just the minimum you need to submit to the spreadsheet we have
it doesnt actually have anything to do with a boonless run in general
cunning urchin
Because it's boonless as a category for the high heat leaderboard.
It's still high heat.
honest wing
what is the best out of rolling long and concentrated knuckle
running dio attack aphro special and already have charged special hammer
echo radish
What
echo radish
Which malphon do you have maxed
drowsy hornet
None, I'm still really new. Using Demeter, but only at level 1
echo radish
Demeter is really good with dio attack and arty special but has to be upgraded a few times
drowsy hornet
By really new, I mean I've cleared twice
echo radish
Zag is really good with plume but also has to be upgraded
Talos is the one the needs the least upgrades and functions more or less the same
Demeter is a monster once you've upgraded it a few though
drowsy hornet
I've got Heat unlocked. Is it worth it to just repeatedly farm the first boss to rack up Titan Blood with all the different weapons?
echo radish
Yea I personally just set to a static heat value above the required heat value for my weapons and keep running at it cause it's work to change heat every run
drowsy hornet
I was gonna wait until clearing Hades with each weapon before turning up the heat on that weapon
echo radish
Just go with the weapon that's thirsty or whatever you wanna play and keep at the minimum heat required
drowsy hornet
You can only get the bounty once per weapon per heat threshold, right?
echo radish
Yes
drowsy hornet
Gotcha
echo radish
Anyway malphon best dot is dionysus
Relevant duo boons you'd want is dio-aphro and dio-ares
So going for dio attack aphro special and ares vengeance is pretty good, alternatively dio attack ares special and aphro dash also works but the first one is more optimal imo
rose cloud
Any tips when using Aspect of Rama?
rose cloud
Got it.
So this is like Arthur-ish build?
Since the basic attack deals a ton of damage
gusty rapids
yeah generally with rama the main idea is to coat most enemies in the room with the special, then use the chunky attack to take out a big enemy
the trap i fell into, and i see a lot of new rama players fall into, is focusing on the special (with like a zeus special build) because its much easier to use, but the attack is super strong and absolutely worth it to use
rose cloud
Thank you! I'll try my best with this one
gusty rapids
good luck! it takes a bit of practice to get used to but is incredibly strong once you do
vague dove
Wtf extreme measure hades is so hard
coral cave
Ikr
slim lynx
the first time that is
stray apex
What works best with Beowulf
echo radish
Aphro or dio I assume
gusty rapids
aphro, dio, and poseidon work very well
vague dove
Any advices for hades extreme measure ?
I almost beated him with ares/athena on zag malphon
gusty rapids
honestly? practice. one good way is to get into the fight and only dodge for a portion of time, just to get used to the attacks and how to evade them. focusing more on dodging damage rather than dealing damage is always good to get used to the boss's rhythm
its not an easy fight, it'll take practice to get used to
have you gotten to phase 2 and beyond yet?
there are a couple specific things i can mention
vague dove
I did it only a few times and tried to rush damage because with good build it work with the normal hades
gusty rapids
yeah haha that can work normally but with EM4 it becomes MUCH more difficult to just out damage him
focus on dodging
vague dove
Yeah i beated the first 2 life and i just die on the 3 phase
gusty rapids
ok
when he summons cerberus, the bottom right corner usually is a safe zone from the projectiles
when in phase 3, i like to stay around a pillar to give me some cover since you often cant see where hades is
getting too far away from a pillar can result in getting caught easily by an attack i cant see
other than that, focus on dodging and learning his attacks. outdamaging him is not really going to work at this point
vague dove
I maybe shouldn’t try to just kill him and should take a bit more time, because i don’t play him as a boss like i don’t really respect his attack or him, just try to don’t take to much damage and profit of the burst damage build I make but I don’t work, it’s close but not enought .-.
I’ll try again with guan yu, I play more safe with this spear
gusty rapids
good luck!
west charm
leaden bay
Is Curse of Drowning good on something like Beowulf? Seems to require me to stand next to things...
toxic kite
For the fight against ||Hades ultimate angry dad, is there a way to stop him from regenerating life ? and a way to dodge the Cerberus attack ?|| thanks !
gusty rapids
For the fight against ||Hades ultimate angry dad, is there a way to stop him fro...
||destroying the pots makes him regenerate less health i believe, but i dont think theres any way to entirely stop him. the bottom right corner is usually a safe spot, but there are rare occasions cerberus can drop projectiles there. if you see a red circle in the bottom right you can try to dash as it hits to get the i-frames from the dash, but this shouldnt happen too often if you manage to get to the corner quickly enough||
toxic kite
Wow alright, ty. It's a tough fight I won just one time thanks to ||daddy's keepsake|| and a massive chaos shield with Athena's boons. But i can't always rely on an "easy" build, wouldn't be funny
proven osprey
@primal hazel 500 GY is near
primal hazel
@Astaos Time for me to get back to hades huh?
mossy yarrow
I just unlocked the aspect of lucifer and it feels like outright cheating
sonic crypt
Is it that good? I still need to get around to it
slim lynx
deadly strike or hunter dash? i'm using fists
proven osprey
Both are not the best but deadly strike is better
proven osprey
Since hunter dash is % based and malphon attack is low base damage
proven osprey
I feel like I absolutely need Athena's dash on fists
Yeah it's a really nice crutch
drowsy hornet
It's the only way I have a shot at beating Hades with Fists XD
proven osprey
Maybe you dash strike a bit too much
glossy bronze
Does Nourished Soul round up the health regen from cursed slash from 2 to 3?
drowsy hornet
I really do
empty heron
Alternatively, deflect on fist attack and any damage on dash
glossy bronze
Nourished soul does not round up. noted.
drowsy hornet
Just got the Hera aspect on the bow, what's a fun cast build?
proven osprey
crush shot, try to get snow burst and go with Privileged status
it's fun
also don't pick Blown Kiss, does not work on Hera
drowsy hornet
So shotgun bow?
proven osprey
yeah it's more dps that way
drowsy hornet
Also, do I want Stygian Soul for the regenerating bloodstones?
proven osprey
maybe having arte in your pool will guide you to the Fully Loaded dream
No, infernal
mossy yarrow
does this increase the chance of my normal and special attack to do critical damage or is the critical damage only for the cast
slim lynx
on a scale of 1-10 how fun is a poseidon aspect cast build
teal juniper
poseidon cast is amazing
and poseidon sword is also really fun
tbf everything's fun, really just depends on what boons you take with the weapon
jaunty wave
okay im not worried on spoilers - how does Extreme Measures affect Theseus/Asterius, and ||Dad||?
slim lynx
best gods for achilles?
teal juniper
okay im not worried on spoilers - how does Extreme Measures affect Theseus/Aster...
||Theseus first phase has a chariot, asterius does more damage and is faster, Dad has a third phase, can heal, can summon cerberus, and has a spear throw and rush after attack, probably some more differences idk||
sonic crypt
okay im not worried on spoilers - how does Extreme Measures affect Theseus/Aster...
each level of EM slightly changes how each fight works
||em1 - more HP and the sisters chime in occasionally with attacks
em2 - room is different
em 3 - theseus has chariot & asterius hits in 360
em 4 - dad is bloody scary||
sonic crypt
oh right I didn't even read that properly
don't answer questions mid run @sonic crypt
jaunty wave
xd
slim lynx
em3 is actually fun
jaunty wave
but yeah i was just curious seeing as EM affects the others pretty drastically in comaprison to the reflective level skill
slim lynx
i haven't fought daddy yet but he doesn't seem very fun because he can heal :(
teal juniper
em3 is actually fun
it is if you have a build that means it's not slow
if you don't have the dps it's less so
jaunty wave
also, once Lernie gets to his second immunity phase he deatches frim his neck and floats about
teal juniper
goes for the whole game really tho
slim lynx
not to worry if i have crappy dps artemis or aphrodite can come save the day
sonic crypt
that's fair, I barely think about that as lernie is honestly easier to me as EM2
jaunty wave
hes kinda the same but the extra gaps in the floor do throw me off sometimes
slim lynx
what's a good god for aspect of hades
teal juniper
none of them are bad I don't think
zeus maybe? or poseidon
if you get poseidon attack with sea storm that'd be good
proven osprey
Deadly strike, more artemis. Aphrodite for heart rend. Serrated point/exploding launcher
cunning urchin
Alternatively, deflect on fist attack and any damage on dash
Or just Deflect on both.
Best way to play Hades Aspect is to go down one and play Guan Yu.
teal juniper
what's a good god for aspect of hades
athena is pretty nice because you can deflect a tonne of attacks in a radius easily
agile plover
What's everyone's thoughts on Chiron vs Hera for Coronacht?
stone mango
does deathless stand add another death defiance if you havent used it?
tame bison
No
stone mango
ah ok
also, what's the max evasion rate you can get?
I think an evasion build might be funy
tame bison
Dunno. A lot. It works.
regal garden
well
15 percent from fists
if you can get heroic hermes dodge
25 percent from that
40 percent then just add however high you can get with the plume?
the max you can get on plume is probably 30 + percent right
stone mango
and all that stacks additively?
cloud vault
Yes
stone mango
ruthless reflex is what condition again?
cloud vault
Near miss
stone mango
wait a minute, so theoretically speaking, you can be completely invulnerable right?
cloud vault
You can have 100% dodge chance
tame bison
Can’t dodge when stunned
stone mango
well, the stun would have to hit first
tame bison
Yes
tame bison
Yeah it’s very busted. Also point blank range all 5 rockets can hit 1 target
copper crest
SUPER busted omg
slim lynx
yeah it does a lot of damage
slim lynx
deadly strike + splitting headache + drunken dash 😳
imagine if i got clean kill
i also had concentrated knuckle so i was already doing crazy damage
regal garden
i did drunken dash eris recentlyand tbh
not sure if it was too good
that eris was quite slow
it was 30 minutes
i dont think i focused too much on damage or what makes eris good but it was still fun
cloud vault
Considering Eris can go 6 minutes flat or so I would say it's not the best
Speaking of Eris, Lily did a 5:57
stone mango
what boons go well with lucifer?
zinc merlin
Zeus is really good for lucifer
stone mango
pretty sure half the weapons are awesome with zeus
and the other half are good with doom
stone mango
I don't like a lot of the legendary weapons, can't believe you ahve to use them for quests
worldly stump
The legendary bow is awesome I think
daring turtle
The only one I haven't got a hang of yet is Beowolf
worldly stump
aspect of lucifer is good too
stone mango
strange, that's my favourite one
daring turtle
The others I have a lot of fun with
worldly stump
but the spear one is just bad
stone mango
i don't like lucifer, feels more restrictive compared to hestia
daring turtle
GY is so fun to me
worldly stump
my favorite one is arthur cause it hits like a freaking train
craggy rapids
So I just noticed that at the end of my run, I seem to be able to "select" boons for some reason after the Hades fight? Some of them have a little marker on them. What does that do?
daring turtle
Yeah, Arthur hits really hard, same with Rama
worldly stump
Yeah i thought that was weird too
half crater
So I just noticed that at the end of my run, I seem to be able to "select" boons...
this is just for showing off your build in victory screenshots
craggy rapids
I see, thanks
stone mango
what goes with GY spear?
craggy rapids
High damage Special. But honestly, I think it's the worst spear. You can get better results with literally any other one.
worldly stump
It really is
stone mango
I just need to do the quest
worldly stump
It has a decent moveset but the penalty is just too cripiling for what it does
craggy rapids
Yeah, you'll want to try and get Aphrodite Special. Maybe Artemis. Just stay ranged and stay safe.
Athena is essential
daring turtle
I usually go with Aphrodite attack, and any high damage special, but Poseidon is nice since it with that special knocks enemies back sooo far
worldly stump
-50% health and healing is just way too bad especially if youre going for the pact of punishments
craggy rapids
I hope the devs intend to seriously punch up its damage numbers at some point. The ability to regenerate health doesn't make up for the fact that you have slashed health, it just slows you down.
daring turtle
A really good combo with it is quick spin, then use Poseidon special to knock enemies back into the spear as they exit it
worldly stump
Even if youre not using the lifesteal you get punished just for taking it
cloud vault
It's not much of a downside if you don't get hit a lot
Meanwhile it does a lot of damage
worldly stump
you will get hit though
craggy rapids
It's not much of a downside if you don't get hit a lot
Sure, but what is the benefit? It's damage is barely higher than Zag spear.
cloud vault
It starts with exploding launcher special essentially
daring turtle
Even if you get hit a lot, it's healing capabilities are incredible
half crater
free explosive launcher is actually pretty lit
worldly stump
It really isnt
cloud vault
And Zag Spear does much less damage try on Skelly.
Any base damage gap grows a lot with %boons
craggy rapids
Zag -- 31 and 31. Guan Yu -- 45
daring turtle
I got to Hades without ever losing more than half health last run (lost some DD to him though)
Low heat though
worldly stump
If youre trying to climb the pacts the healing isnt going to help
half crater
it’s certainly not the easiest weapon to use, but to claim its strictly worse than other spears is just untrue
craggy rapids
You have to factor in the return trip. which can have 50% crit rate and is also an inherent backstab most of the time
cloud vault
The healing also happens to be one of rare ways to heal with Lc4
I mean you can probably get two throws for 1 Zag throw and return
cloud vault
Meanwhile Zag Spear basic attack is a lot weaker
craggy rapids
Also, Guan Yu Attack is slow. Compared to every other spear than can be a gatling gun of damage.
half crater
and GY’s special is actually absurdly wide
stone mango
spear is my least favourite weapon
craggy rapids
@stone mango Try a Zag Spear Artemis/Aphrodite Build. You'll need to be lucky to get Vicious Skewer, but you'll do crazy damage.
half crater
GY’s attack also deals way more damage than any other spear, making serrated point (already a top tier spear hammer) even better for it
misty turret
If youre trying to climb the pacts the healing isnt going to help
what
if you use the spin attack often enough GY pays for itself
misty turret
i personally prefer massive spin or the thing that makes the spin proj go longer
i dont think BP2 FO1 is doing me any favors when trying 32 heat
half crater
what weapon are you running?
misty turret
rama
half crater
rama can handle the BP, although some people do prefer BP1 for 32
the FO is probably more the issue
it’s workable, but rama is already a very timing sensitive weapon, so FO just makes things a lot harder
misty turret
i had a run that got to satyr tunnels and died with arthur because i had to go through every single tunnel
misty turret
the like DC-giving armored skulls genuinely sap all the fun of tartarus at times
half crater
oh man saviour numbskulls lmao
back in the day, they used to be able to generate a basically unlimited number of shields
it was hilarious and the worst
thankfully there’s a cap now
misty turret
fast wringers are also scary
half crater
truth
zinc merlin
Is quests the fated list of prophecies?
half crater
often when people talk about quests they’re referring to progressing character relationships
but sometimes they’re talking about prophecies so ymmv ig
misty turret
oh yeah what keepsake should i be using for 32 i've just been using skull earring because it's convenient and usually active
coarse moss
rama is great with shackles if your pacts dont let you choose good boons
proven osprey
Just to be clear
Guan Yu is the best spear aspect at high heat
The ability to heal is so much value, and special build is safe
The attack is slow
You don't attack, that's it
proven osprey
Yeah you should, it's really tough otherwise 
regal garden
yeah
might be the first hidden aspect i max
do rama and lucifer need upgrades to be usable?
or good
because i used arthur at level 1 and it worked fine
and i got it to level 2
regal garden
got it
proven osprey
But it's still playable
fervent elbow
Rama is decent, but i think you miss a good chunk of damage without upgrade
proven osprey
it's just that shared suffering is so damn strong
misty turret
i was literally one shot away from killing hades and the game ate my dash input
bruh
regal garden
right ok
ill focus my blood on guan yu then
do the other hidden aspects benefit alot from tian blood
alot
proven osprey
Gilga a bit but you can totally ignore what it upgrades with a build variation
Beowulf is more damage but I have not tried it unmaxed so I can't tell
regal garden
can you get dread flight on the chaos shield
like can you get the hammer with the aspect
its the final hammer i need for a prophecy
proven osprey
Yeah you can
But it will only apply to the original special, not to all the shields
slim lynx
i mean maim is cool but i prefer just not getting hit ever
daring turtle
Maimed Hades when he hits you with a skull is terrifying
Suddenly his 40 damage attacks deal 100
slim lynx
just dash lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
proven osprey
i mean maim is cool but i prefer just not getting hit ever
That's a good point. However, a patch made it easier to maim enemies without getting hit. It's ok now
frail schooner
rush kick
proven osprey
true
grizzled oyster
Tried beowulf with dio cast yesterday for the first time and was blown away by the damage
I also had the deadalus hammer that lets you shot your bull rush as a piercing shot. That was surprisingly good.
jagged grove
Could there be a pinned message for like aspect guides?
proven osprey
You mean, how to play them?
agile plover
I have to choose between Divine Protection and Last Stand. On a 16 heat run. Currently in Asphodel. 2 DDs left
🤔
Nvm. I'll go Divine Protection since it's fated anyways.
misty turret
divine protection is really good anyway 
plush fog
Can anyone recommend a strong and relatively easy build for zag spear?
agile plover
Thesus with Demeter's assistance is way more annoying
coarse moss
Can anyone recommend a strong and relatively easy build for zag spear?
strong and easy? hmm hunting blades full cast build? xD
plush fog
I have yet to do one of those as I am still pretty new.. Is it relatively easy to get the necessary boons?
coarse moss
hmm might be not so easy without the mirror that makes duo more common
plush fog
Yeah that is one of the few mirror perks I am still missing
I have only cleared with chaos shield with doom so I am trying to do it with something else lol
coarse moss
what i'd do is try to get hammer upgrade charged skewer and/or exploding launcher
agile plover
Overall I feel like Malphon is better than Varatha
scenic oracle
worldly stump
explain yourself now
regal garden
hazard bomb?
dry ember
Cluster rocket it seems
shut iris
frail schooner
no :(
agile plover
That feel when you sell Splitting Bolt out of necessity, only to get it again later at Styx
frail schooner
yeah it does
for hazard i’d rather have pink though
assuming you don’t have DC on
agile plover
Yeeeeet. I ran through my first 16 heat run, gg
grave kestrel
Nice Charlievl!
fading garden
GG!
agile plover
Ty ty
turbid needle
no argument except that it's too good
hot flare
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/512790960816783363/798195037997105152/202...
How did u get so many boons?
turbid needle
Poseidon also has a good dash
Artemis is good if you doing dash attacks
all other dashes are lamish
hot flare
artismis best boon is the one where if u attack, special, or cast. it fires a like tracking arrow or whatever
op with spear special
and zeus strikes
regal garden
@hot flare dark foresight helps
increases the chances of gold doors showing up
theyre the ones that have boons
coarse moss
How did u get so many boons?
Dark Foresight, Gods' Legacy, Fated Persuasion. mirror effects that help get the duo you want. oh and wearing the god's keepsakes too
empty heron
Does anyone have a good rail build build for max damage? Any aspect, I'll buy it. I'm having dps issues.
turbid needle
hestia with either artimis or aphro attack
Eris, same
but I prefer zeus or demeter for eris
hestia is so awesome
coarse moss
Eris with zeus attack, and tidal dash. never stop dashing(into enemies) and shooting and specialing
daring turtle
flooding Styx is always the answer
zinc merlin
All I did in styx is spam dash and special the mini bosses
coarse moss
Eris's damage buff is insane because it affects everything. chain lightning, tidal dash, jolted, rupture. sea storm
zinc merlin
yup
Plus its so easy to get the buff
The clear was so easy even tho I only had the first level of eris
regal garden
poseidon might have just became my favourite sword aspect
once i got exit wounds it was
mwa
its only level 2 so the cast wasnt that boosted but i can see some very fun cast builds with it
vapid yacht
Finally cleared 1 heat with Nemesis sword and all I needed was Artemis attack, dash-strike, Chaos attack, Aphrodite special, duo boon with Artemis and Aphrodite, and the sword upgrade which makes dash-strike hit twice
It is bad
sullen valley
So uh, Greater Evasion (20% dodge) or Second Wind (33% dodge and move, only Clouded Judgement)?
dry ember
what call do you have?
dry ember
can you stack the call fast enough?