Heat modifier
#h1-builds-and-combat
wanton comet
sonic mural
its not gonna be for a while tho
wanton comet
Ok
sonic mural
you dont turn on em3 until around 32 heat
dry shuttle
@wanton comet did you have something specific you wanted to ask about?
turbid needle
I don't think so? EM is one of the easier pacts to take even early on imo
the last one ofc is a different topic
sonic mural
nah id say that its the middle ones for 2 heats each
wanton comet
Oh yeah, any keepsakes I should go get? I've been using skellys for the longest time and I don't know If I should try any others.
turbid needle
But tbh mostly anything flies at low heat
sonic mural
u only have to go up to em2 for 20 heat
mighty ermine
EM3 is worth 3 heat though
sonic mural
Oh yeah, any keepsakes I should go get? I've been using skellys for the longest ...
def not skellies
dry shuttle
yeah I've completed probably 20 or 30 escapes and haven't gone past EM2
turbid needle
Those heats are very customizable
wanton comet
But extra dd
sonic mural
acorn if ur struggling with bosses
skelliies only gives 100 health
collar gives 125 if you already have 3 dd
and acorn gives 200-300 health of boss hits
wanton comet
I mean yeah I'm only dying to bosses but I never know
dry shuttle
also use god keepsakes to look for specific boons early on
wanton comet
Like I haven't given one to thanatos or aires and I think the hunter one
dry shuttle
I liked starting with athena's keepsake bc I found that having deflect dash made things much better
mighty ermine
The god keepsakes are invaluable for the start of a run or asphodel etc.
dry shuttle
true
sonic mural
skellies is only "useful" for bosses since its the last dd to be popped, and even then there are way better options
sonic mural
this guy already did one clear tho
dry shuttle
hm yeah there are better options then
wanton comet
So I might have to go skellys
sonic mural
take acorn instead
dry shuttle
Hades is hard
sonic mural
acorn gives 200-300 health worth of hits from hades
while tooth gives the illusion of helping but in actuality is worse than other options
wanton comet
I think the only reason I beat him was because of one boon
But its gonna be ass to get it again
dry shuttle
which boon?
mighty ermine
Tooth isn't directly worse than acorn, it just is strong in different contexts
sonic mural
if you have 3 dd what context?
dry shuttle
tooth is way better than acorn if you're having trouble in the temple of styx
wanton comet
The Demeter plus i forget who but it gave me 1 health a second when I had no dds. So I could spam rail grenades while I was running away and still tank hits.
sonic mural
what context in hades i mean
mighty ermine
Different contexts meaning SD, EM4 with butterflies, etc.
turbid needle
I saw bablo taking it for his 40 heat streaks
mighty ermine
I used it for my 60 in elysium
turbid needle
Because non-boss rooms can actually kill you
tame bison
If you have trouble in Temple, Broken Spearpoint is awesome bc it stalls poison.
turbid needle
Oh shoot, fr
wanton comet
Now that I think about it I lose two to three dds at theasus and then Hades slaughters me
turbid needle
Was it for the same reasoning as bablo's?
sonic mural
Now that I think about it I lose two to three dds at theasus and then Hades slau...
yah the only advice i can give u is learn their movesets
dry shuttle
hmm yeah theseus and asterius are tricky
turbid needle
Acorn only provides value in the final fight, while tooth can save you throughout the biome?
dry shuttle
just figure out some strong builds to go for for damage output
mighty ermine
Was it for the same reasoning as bablo's?
In terms of elysium regular encounters being dangerous, yeah
sonic mural
isnt that what SD is for tho?
mighty ermine
It got used at asterius miniboss and I would have lost otherwise
turbid needle
It's extra insurance
sonic mural
oh ok
dry shuttle
@wanton comet do you mostly use rail?
opal lodge
you get 2 chances in a given room
turbid needle
Also if you get a particularly bad bp room
opal lodge
dude its terrible
turbid needle
I don't know what to do with speeder archers to be honest
opal lodge
i just need to work on not getting surrounded
turbid needle
Especially when theyre in all four corners
mighty ermine
The game is like "these dudes aren't that hard here's ten of them at once"
opal lodge
its tough because you bullrush towards one and another shoots you in the back
yeah their difficulty rating is pitiful for an armored mob
turbid needle
I'm relieved to know even you guys have trouble with them lol
wanton comet
<@!317395937255227423> do you mostly use rail?
When I got it the first time I did a test run and got a demeter flourish and got the triple bomb upgrade
At that point I just dodged spammed and shot grenades
opal lodge
i feel like bows and shield are ironically toughest for bows
mighty ermine
Definitely agree
wanton comet
Honestly I just use whatever weapon is hungry
dry shuttle
if you want to keep using rail, try getting zeus on attack and looking for jolted boons
sonic mural
At that point I just dodged spammed and shot grenades
yah u should take time and learn moves not dodge spam
mighty ermine
Swords are kinda erratic but still not so bad, and longspears are just kite city
mighty ermine
Speeder shields and strongbows are the worst
dry shuttle
yeah
turbid needle
Always and forever
opal lodge
one thing with flood shot beo is shields are harder than before
wanton comet
I kind of like the fists but I need a good build to have fun with them
dry shuttle
it's weird that elysium is the hardest environment
dry shuttle
fists are also good with zeus on attack
opal lodge
if youre not careful
sonic mural
I kind of like the fists but I need a good build to have fun with them
which is why u bring 2 god keepsakes one in tart other in asph
dry shuttle
or you can go for the ares athena duo
sonic mural
yes
wanton comet
Cause I enter asphodel and its not the god I put
sonic mural
Its not guaranteed first
But it is guaranteed
Even in tart, it isnt guaranteed first
Hammer can take precedence
turbid needle
Don't take anvils unless you have the worst possible hammers
Or are an rng masochist.
wanton comet
I lost my 300% armor sword to backstab damage and double special
sonic mural
Given that its just before the final boss
dry shuttle
yeah god keepsakes are tricky
sonic mural
Thats fine
dry shuttle
they do work but there are a few things to keep in mind
Hermes is a special case boon
wanton comet
I love hermes hyper dash
dry shuttle
if you have poseidon's boon active, a hermes boon could still show up first
wanton comet
My third favorite boon
dry shuttle
also, each keepsake only guarantees one boon
sonic mural
keepsakes are just
Put it on, and the boon will show up somewhere
wanton comet
I really need to give aires a nectar
dry shuttle
so if you put on poseidon's keepsake in tart, and get a poseidon boon, and keep it on for asp, you're not guaranteed a second Pos boon
wanton comet
But he never appears
turbid needle
It does boost that god's rarity chances while equipped
Even after the charge is used up (you get the boon from that good)
hushed ledge
It only increases chance it's rare or greater, which idk if affects leggo chance
wanton comet
So it goes base, rare, epic then what?
turbid needle
Heroic
wanton comet
Sounds pretty cool
Hmmm
Chaos build is pretty hard
But I do want to try the plundering sword upgrade plus the mega gains gold chaos boon
tame bison
The boon that makes Aphro cast shoot farther and deal bonus damage to undamaged foes...is that super good with Hera?
Just helps you one shot things?
nova shale
Is Hades' spin attack consistent timing? I keep trying to timed-dash to dodge it and it's a bit inconsistent
It seems like the GTFO maneuver works better but he loves doing sneaky turns
Spoilers allowed in this channel
plain plover
Oh, are they? I apologize then
Any hints on a talos build? Other than the obvious "zeus, dio, or demeter on attack"
More looking for stuff that works with talos, rather than just a standard fist run
nova shale
I feel like you might want athena special maybe?
plain plover
Athena, huh?
nova shale
The biggest problem I have with talos is that it doesn't stun the enemy when it pulls them in so a lot of the time you pull them and they instantly hit you
nova shale
The deflect will maybe deflect any insta-hits and give you the time to react to anything else
plain plover
Ill give it a shot, and see what i think
nova shale
Of course I don't like running deflect on anything other than dash, but it's worth a try IMO
plain plover
Yeah, i dont really like deflect on anything other than dash either
But ill give it a shot
balmy portal
I enjoy Sisyphus a lot as my summon when fighting Asterius, because his charge gets stopped by the coin/darkness 😛
tame bison
@plain plover is talos the magnetic one? I’ve heard Poseidon special is funny. Put rupture on it and you pull them in, knock away, pull em in, etc
plain plover
I was thinking poseidon, but wasnt sure how viable it would have been
tame bison
Never tried it myself
still ridge
The boon that makes Aphro cast shoot farther and deal bonus damage to undamaged ...
I’d say it’s not essential, but probably still worthwhile. The range is obviously moot with Hera, but extra damage on mooks is always nice.
tame bison
Hey thanks for the reply!
Oh jeez. Just got epic Zeus Call, Festive Fog, and Zeus Legend in one room. It probably has to be legend with Lightning strike sadly
Need moar Zeus lol
Really enjoying this cluster bomb plus Trippy Shot lol
Just like grenade everything build
noble tiger
i did the talos rupture build, the damage was alright but still got instahit several times.
tame bison
So more entertaining than good
What happens with Rush Kick and Aspect of Demeter? My special does 40 dmg twice and Demeter makes my special hit 5x so...??
pliant anvil
I believe demeter will just add hits as usual
finite siren
yeah i think it hits one more time ?
tame bison
Better than kinetic launcher then? Or worse bc harder to hit with
pliant anvil
sidegrade I think, but I'm not 100% sure
tame bison
Thanks
Came out of Tartarus with Dio strike, Aphro special, aspect of Demeter, and rare crop hitting both of those bc no other boons. And was using Pom
Deece.
wanton comet
how do people use the bow?
its so unweildly.
unless Im building it wrong and I don't see how to use it right
dry shuttle
aspect of chiron can have some pretty huge dps once it gets upgraded
wanton comet
yeah but I always have to stand still to do any damage
quaint pewter
which is the best trinket?
wanton comet
I think skellys is the best but people tell me nah
quaint pewter
from who do you get it?
wanton comet
skelly
quaint pewter
the extra life right?
wanton comet
yeah
quaint pewter
so 2 extra lives
wanton comet
4 for me
tame bison
Gambit: dash strike with the bow allows you to charge the shot up faster
So basically you dash constantly lol
The special is just to apply a status effect unless you’re using certain aspects.
Treat the special as like a “spray the room with Doom status and forget” type deal
And then dash, charge up, fire. Dash agaibn
finite siren
if you're using chiron it's the opposite use the attack to spray doom on opponents and special to lay waste on enemies that are targeted
tame bison
there are much better trinkets than skelly but you get them later
wanton comet
IF I COULD EVER GET HIM
finite siren
dont you have his keepsake ? just equip it on tartarus
then equip another once you leave
wanton comet
NO
finite siren
why
wanton comet
I CAN'T EVEN GET HIM TO GET THE KEEPSAKE
finite siren
just give him nectar idk
tame bison
The bow def takes a bit of work, but it’s worth it
finite siren
you'll get it eventually
wanton comet
I'll try an artemis bow thingy later.
right now I'm doing old reliable fists and gun
finite siren
oh i tried a poseidon stygius cast build today
it was nutty ? got most of the dope artemis boons that enable this type of run
except her legendary
wanton comet
who stygius?
tame bison
The sword
tame bison
His name is Stygius Mightius Decimus Meridius
finite siren
like coronacht is so good
wanton comet
neat
finite siren
exagryph is such a good name
wanton comet
I just call it sword
finite siren
varatha is dope, aegis too is cool
and then i forgot the fists.. Malphon ? I think Malphon
wanton comet
ima be honest I'm not paying that much attention to the story
wanton comet
all I know is I'm dude named zag, find mom, beat dad. end game.
oh yeah we got cool gods for some reason
tame bison
Yeah the dev team really did a great job inventing a deity system
wanton comet
also I think we're family but I was zooming through dialogue I couldn't really tell.
anyways, do you prefer the talos or demeter fists?
tame bison
Demeter is the one ppl use most often of those two
Zag aspect fists is also good at lower difficulties
Bc lambent plume is busted with it
wanton comet
oh I have not been using that one
still skellys
I'll def give it a go when I have the chance
finite siren
what does Talos do I haven't even bothered unlocking it
I know Demeter is goated
also claws of enkidu are very fun to use, idk if they're good but they're so fun to use
finite siren
i think what you have to do is invest like a good amount of titan blood in the spear, no matter which aspect
then like at some point achilles will be like "yo dude go talk to your spear"
tame bison
It’s 5 TB in whatever weapon
finite siren
and it'll unlock hidden aspect for spear which in turns allow you to unlock other aspects for other weapons if you have enough blood invested in whatever weapon you want
finite siren
It’s 5 TB in whatever weapon
haha five terabyte get it
wanton comet
hopefully I can beat hades this time
zeus knows how many times I'm gonna have to finish to get the ending.
frigid pewter
What does charged shot do to Beowulf aspect
Does it basically turn it into Hera bow
random niche
you oad it like hera bow, and then your shield charge is wider, and explodes with tyour cast boon at the end of the charge
The shield charge width is about 3x and the explosion is about 50% bigger than Poseidon cast.
and your bloodstones always just drop instead of getting stuck in enemies I thiiiiiink. Tipsy shot will leave the fog and you have to wait for it to time out
heavy sigil
Does anybody knows the specific way to unlock skelly challenges
cause I still haven't unlocked them
I mean to be able to do them not be able to finish them
wanton comet
skelly challenges?
heavy sigil
Apparently at some point he gives you statues that give you rewards when you beat a run on certain heat levels
what I want to know is when do you get the statues
finite siren
what I want to know is *when* do you get the statues
doesn't it unlock after doing like some heat runs
maybe i'm wrong but try doing a heat run with every weapon maybe
heavy sigil
will try
only weapon I haven't yet is with shield
iiorc
iirc
might be wrong
Let me check
indigo flame
do you tho
finite siren
I died and hades only had a sliver of health
have you tried hitting him
i heard that dealing damage is the key
also not getting hit try that too
indigo flame
write that down
hushed ledge
Try using shield
indigo flame
where you on the 2nd or 1st health bar
finite siren
let me try that when he turns into the sun
just hide behind the pillars
wanton comet
I did
finite siren
where you on the 2nd or 1st health bar
watch him say "second health bar ???"
wanton comet
2nd
indigo flame
oof
hushed ledge
Lasers only exist after p1
finite siren
right
indigo flame
cursed blade is really good
finite siren
it really isn't
indigo flame
why tho
finite siren
forces you to use your attack to regain health which may cause you to get hit more
wanton comet
I do want to do cursed blade again
that is a tight upgrade
gives me some regen in this health forsaken game.
finite siren
you only have so much health so on hades you'll most likely die to big hits
finite siren
cursed slash effed me like twice in this game, never taking it again
i wanna say the worse upgrade in the game but idk cause i found it very busted early on when i was starting
indigo flame
when I first started the game
finite siren
but as soon as you get to elysium it sucks
yeah exactly it's a noob upgrade it's good early on
indigo flame
well no
wanton comet
honestly I just wish I knew what I was doing wrong
indigo flame
I got a boon from dionysus and it gave me like 5+ with no drawbacks
wanton comet
I somehow beat elysium with only 1 dd and then got eviscerated.
indigo flame
oof
finite siren
just keep playing the game you'll get the hang of it
have you seen that the mirror of dark night truth or whatever it's called has two different upgrades depending on which one you choose
finite siren
like you have a little button that switches to the other upgrade and in some cases it can be better for your playstyle
wanton comet
lack of damage upgrades
finite siren
try stygian soul if you don't know how to manage your cast it's a life saver
wanton comet
I'm just sticking with base because I can spam those three casts then go to town
finite siren
sure you lose two casts but you gain the ability to have a cast every 3 second without the need to pick it up
wanton comet
with the extra damage
finite siren
extra damage applies only once
like boiling blood doesn't stack with every cast
it only applies once
viral star
antos underrated 😔😔
i know meg has her perks ( read : crowd control ) but antos is the fastest high damage summon i believe plus they always find their targets
opal lodge
yeah antos is pretty nice
since you can just summon n forget about aiming n stuff
also single target damage is pretty nice
with double hit
viral star
yes!!!
also i love the quotes that they have, especially with theseus. i love my dads
weak violet
Question: when I put on fiery presence, does it completely remove the ability to backstab? If yes then does parting shot still able to get backstab damage despite it only being the cast?
heavy sigil
I don't in the slightest understand why bow is my "best" weapon
It's the one I have gotten to highest heat with
viral star
It still gives you backstabs, but you need to get an according skill
heavy sigil
but i still feel like i suck
viral star
So shawl/blinding flash/shadow slash, etcetera etcetera
viral star
unrelated but arty attack on high heat arthur is mediocre at best
Demeter and Especially Aphrodite is where it's at
hangover Arthur When
halcyon pewter
What booms do you guys usually go for with achilles spear?
tame bison
Do you folks like Twin Shot or Power Shot on Rama? I guess Twin shot both shots can hit the same target right?
Effectively doubles attack dmg?
viral star
I personally prefer double shot though that's just me
it's good because you can punch through armor
unkempt pagoda
twin shot is rama's best hammer
tame bison
Follow up question: 15% dodge or Epic attack speed on Rama
And that’s good to know I’ll take Twin 🙂
mighty ermine
Attack speed does nothing for dash-strikes
viral star
omg the ceo of rama is here :D
tame bison
Also good to know lol
plain plover
Just unlocked aspect of lucifer. Any suggestions for boons to take with it?
viral star
Dio/Zeus is good on the attack, i believe
plain plover
So, typical rail build. Got it
rare kindle
Dude, rocket bomb + cluster bomb is so good on eris
My screen was so lit up by sfx but everything died really quickly, including theseus and asterius
And I put artemis on special and had a bunch of artemis boons
sonic mural
Just unlocked aspect of lucifer. Any suggestions for boons to take with it?
“Supersoaker” -poseidon attack -> seastorm
tame bison
@rare kindle if you get the chance, cluster+rocket+Poseidon special is hilarious.
Everything just ping pongs off walls and dies
And get rupture/dmg boost for bosses if you want
kindred trout
The most interesting property of Lucifer to build-around is that your special orbs can sit there for a long time repeatedly triggering boon effects. Athena Special lets you lay down a little wall to deflect projectiles. Ares Special can repeatedly Doom a boss every time they walk near it.
plain plover
Oh, really?!
kindred trout
Yeah. It's not really good enough to where you would want to make a special-focused build, you still want to make an attack build similar to using other rails, but it's the biggest difference in build considerations.
plain plover
Interesting.
weak violet
Yo does mirage shot work with curse of drowning?
rare kindle
No
weak violet
Epic
random niche
okay, the 'kinetic launcher' hammer upgrade for the fist when you have Demeter aspect is hilarious. It shoots out a bunch of shots and feels Mega Man as hell.
tame bison
One steamer calls it the ka-me-ha-me-ha lol
random niche
I'm trying to use it for my boon-less run, I figure I swap to shattered manacles at the end and the kinetic launcher should be able to do over 1k maybe if I get backstab and boiling blood.
random niche
Where's the pizazz?
tame bison
I kept being unable to sell my 1 boon from Styx. Like the fountain room would have a Boon and then the remaining rooms no place to sell it
So gave up lol
random niche
I'm saving all my room rerolls for the end, hopefully I can just rerolls for hearts or something and get it in 3 rooms or so.
fringe hollow
Hi all - found the legendary Atrophic Defiance boon from Chaos here. It says it gives me a use of Death Defiance - does it give me one more even if I have all three uses full?
finite siren
yes
rare kindle
Yes, it gives you an additional slot
rare kindle
Not to be confused with Athena's, which merely refill a DD if you've used it
random niche
Well damn, there is some sort of logic at the end that tries to keep you from being boonless. Rerolled a chamber 6 times. I think the trick might be going into styx with at 3 boons so maybe it doesn't prevent you from rerolling to non boon rewards, and then you;d have to find a pool of styx within 4 rooms or so.
noble tiger
So does lightning from Sea Storm proc jolted?
sonic mural
yah
random niche
I'm 80% yeah, and looking at the wording sorta confirms it
tame bison
That’s annoying
sonic mural
super soaker lucifer is super fun
noble tiger
daedelus hammer is painful, delta chamber or richohet on my super soaker
noble tiger
3 heat, i think im on eris?
whichever one gives you bonus damage on special
when you soak it up
sonic mural
oh ok
delta chamber is pretty good since you dash around constantly
so is richochet since you dont have zeus attack
id go richochet
tame bison
Which one is delta? Shotgun mode?
noble tiger
3 round burst no reload
tame bison
Ahh
turbid needle
I love Black Out.
noble tiger
the only legendary boon i've ever gotten was +20% chance for a fish to spawn :)
oh boy mirage shot duo boon! incredible boon for the super soaker
do i throw in rupture for even more damage or wet man special
hushed ledge
Feel like "rupture good" is the correct answer most of the time
noble tiger
true
bright sandal
Is there something I'm missing about move speed reduction? Like I don't think I've ever cared about how fast the enemy is walking except maybe in the third boss fight
hushed ledge
Easier to dodge
bright sandal
Does it actually slow them down, making them easier to predict, or just how fast they move?
turbid needle
The former.
hushed ledge
(also you're undervaluing slower movespeed imo, it's pretty big when kiting)
queen patrol
opal lodge
is this @proven osprey 's call sign
stone harbor
You can't turn on hell mode after making a safe, can you?
stone harbor
Rip no personal liability for me then
Any idea why you can't just turn it on whenever?
icy glade
does rush kick double the demeter triggers?
hushed ledge
Happens sometimes
keen mesa
I took the chaos gate, because I actually paid for that to show up...
nocturne pivot
I just go for which even I need to complete in moments like this
hushed ledge
This is when how accurate your room valuation is kicks in
dry ember
"All are great"
This means the game loves ypu
turbid needle
I would take chaos there 100%
tame bison
Meanwhile my Pom Blossom is like “you want more levels in Holy Shield, right? It’s level 4 already. How about 5?”
random niche
Does it actually slow them down, making them easier to predict, or just how fast...
And Damage Reduction x Weak x Slow is multiplicative towards saving your health instead of additive like the damage buffs. Over a long fight like end boss keeping him chilled is a very significant number of less attacks over the fight.
heavy sigil
I have now realized that
Shield block is kind of op
turns out a pure bull rush build made me realize how crazy block is
hushed ledge
Yeah there's a reason I only half consider my 32 heat as worth anything
And why I constantly will say that shield is busted especially for new players
heavy sigil
it's still my second least favorite weapon but eh
My favorite will always be fists
tempted to go straight from 9 heat to 16
hushed ledge
I just cannot get into fists at all
Go for it
I did that jump at like 7-8 iirc
Otherwise you'll get burnt out
hushed ledge
(although I'm also insane and went straight to EM3 FO2 as a core for my heat)
heavy sigil
game is faster or take more damage is the worst way to increase difficulty to me
that is so much more boring than not increasing heat
hushed ledge
I had like a 15 or 20 win streak at that point and I was just bored
heavy sigil
16 streak not heat yet
hushed ledge
I just wasn't feeling challenged
heavy sigil
yeah but that isn't the part that makes boring for me
actually the opposite
boring to me is running out of fun stuff to do
not difficulty
hushed ledge
There's a point where your meta scaling grows faster than heat scaling does for a bit
turbid needle
Everyone has their own definition of "fun."
hushed ledge
Yeah
finite siren
plowing through the underworld is my idea of fun
heavy sigil
increasing attributes does not equal fun to me
hushed ledge
Part of the fun of Roguelikes for me is that I feel like I can lose if I screw up
finite siren
for others it might be getting their ass kicked
heavy sigil
thus I'm going straight to turning on EM4
hushed ledge
16 you can get to without any numbers increases
(FO doesn't count as a numbers increase imo)
hushed ledge
That's reasonable
heavy sigil
Like I'd say I'm pretty good at this game
hushed ledge
I don't enjoy TD at all so I use it in place of TD
heavy sigil
beat hades on my 8th run and got the true ending (not epilogue) on my 20th ish
hushed ledge
I have no clue how long it took me to beat Hades because I started at the first version
Took like 22 for Hydra iirc
heavy sigil
I had never played it or really watched it before
turns out skills translate
it's just like to me I'm trying to find the point where heat goes from yeah this is a good change to
rare kindle
Part of the appeal of roguelites to me is that they’re skill based and that you can’t just simply grind your way to a win
heavy sigil
why does this exist
hushed ledge
My only skills that translated over were roguelike ones
heavy sigil
I currently run at about 7 heat average
hushed ledge
I don't play arpgs
rare kindle
I’m quite enamored with Groundhog Day loops in general, and to me, roguelites are that in a video game
hushed ledge
And I can't aim in any kind of game (see: why I suck at gungeon)
heavy sigil
I'm pretty sure that nope that isn't fun any more limit to me is 20
Gungeon is huge pog
I have like
heavy sigil
600 hours in tboi
rare kindle
I’ve been considering getting enter the gungeon, does it tell you about synergies and stuff?
finite siren
it doesnt
finite siren
you have to have the gungeon wiki with you
rare kindle
It looks pretty Hades like with the dodge mechanic
hushed ledge
Gungeon is quite different from Hades
heavy sigil
Gungeon is very fun albeit doesn't have as much variety as Hades
hushed ledge
Dodge rolls are very different from dashes
heavy sigil
it's very entertaining if you like roguelites
but with guns
So what modifiers would y'all recommend for 16
sonic mural
max the middle pacts for 2 heats each
middle management, underworld customs, benefits package
put on em3
heavy sigil
What I'm planning on is EM4, MM, deadline 7m and something to make it 16
rare kindle
Which weapon?
hushed ledge
If you aren't gonna touch FO then yeah BP is what you're looking for
FO is fun imo but I have very bad takes
rare kindle
You could try damage control if it’s a fast weapon or try to put on forced overtime so it’s easier to go fast
rare kindle
Yeah, I think fists are fast enough for at least one level of damage control
heavy sigil
EM4, 7 min timer, MM and 1 benefits package or EM4, 9min timer, and 2 of FO, package or MM
heavy sigil
I have never used FO2 before
heavy sigil
I heard EM3 was bad and it really wasn't
heard even less about EM4
so that's a yes
hushed ledge
EM3 is bad when you start mixing in other heats as well imo
rare kindle
You need to out DPS his heal and you can’t hug him to escape his lasers anymore
opal lodge
if you run "hard" modifiers with EM3
sonic mural
em3 is kinda easier than regular boss fight at a lower heat
finite siren
em3 is a joke
opal lodge
the hardest part of your run will be EM3
otherwise
you will coast through your run and then run into the roadblock that is EM4
that's my 2 cents
obvi for <20ish
misty cedar
Any tips on getting out with the secret spear aspect?
Atm my main strategy is to max health w/ cerberus collar.
heavy sigil
I am gonna try something rather dumb
sonic mural
whats gung ho?
hushed ledge
Idr, does FO affect bosses or not?
misty cedar
Oh right sorry
hushed ledge
Yeah that explains a lot of my weird takes that people that are newer to the game on other servers I'm in go ??? at
sonic mural
fo2 is fun when you get used to it
else when i take it off the whole game seems super slow
heavy sigil
so cause why not
turned on FO2 and EM4
first time ever for both
pwactice time
also equals 16
misty cedar
Is Athena's call the go to on guan yu? Because Athena's call worked really well together with the cursed sword daedalus upgrade
cosmic hornet
athena is good on it, ye
for guan yu you want to focus on not getting hit, moreso than any other weapon
your main tool is your special
the spin is a lie
misty cedar
Which keepsake and summon should I take?
heavy sigil
Something I don't remember
sonic mural
the usual
heavy sigil
on demeter is rush kick or kinetic launcher better
heavy sigil
It can be fun but kinetic is awesome
cosmic hornet
i would prioritise athena over aphrodite for guan yu
sonic mural
well i mean heartrend vs survivability
cosmic hornet
because its hard to keep the weak up for heartrend
sonic mural
depends on how confident u are in dodging boss
summon = meg or sisyphus, depends on whether you think u need the damage or the healing
misty cedar
Shady it is then
stone harbor
What's your take on dusa's summon? I find it weaker than meg and sisyphus, my usual go tos
sonic mural
for damage my opinion is that anything other than meg is too slow and too inconsistent
stone harbor
Achilles is fast enough, but 2.5k>1.5k so I always take meg
misty cedar
I like Mort because slapping Thanatos on Theseus after he starts using his god aids pretty much insta kills him
sonic mural
archilles can only hit 2
heavy sigil
the only issue I'm really having with FO2 is that there are some attacks that have so little choreographing that I can't really dodge them
sonic mural
unless you go calisthenics meg can also insta kill theseus
you just spam whatever when his shield is down
stone harbor
I always tried to hit both of them when they stajd together but instakilling theseus seems like a better use for a summon
sonic mural
all depends on heat levels
stone harbor
archilles can only hit 2
How often can you hit 3 enemies with meg that need that kind of damage?
sonic mural
on speedrunning heat, the standard play is to meg both first then you instakill theseus when his shield is down
sonic mural
How often can you hit 3 enemies with meg that need that kind of damage?
theseus/minotaur, hydra heads, elysium enemies, witches mini boss, any other mini boss
stone harbor
Theseus minotaur is two, witches is true, I don't think you have enough charges to use it in elysium too often, the only other miniboss with that many enemies I can think of is the bomb guys in tartarus with MM
sonic mural
styx minibosses as well ig, barge of death
hushed ledge
the only issue I'm really having with FO2 is that there are some attacks that ha...
I'm fairly sure every attack is reactable, it's just more punishing if you get greedy in stupid points
Like if you're stuck in a long animation or out of dashes you aren't going to be able to dodge, but that's entirely on you
FB spin is probably the thing that's hardest to react to, and you have to get very good at dashing through it without thinking
hushed ledge
That's also fair
heavy sigil
but my memory just doesn't work for boss fights
I can't remember patterns besides the most basic level
hushed ledge
It definitely changes the dynamic of fights a lot
You can't fully just subconsciously react, you have to have a couple things you're specifically focusing on reacting too
heavy sigil
and well that is the one thing I can't really do
one or the other
so FO1 where it is more speedy
but not quite this much seems good
hushed ledge
(I also think skipping FO1 is a mistake because you have time to adjust to the changes before going to FO2)
heavy sigil
I mean like it's not that bad
just gotta focus more
also it seems like some attacks just do more damage for some reason
like not even hitting more just do flat more damage
hushed ledge
Which ones?
sonic mural
middle management?
hushed ledge
FO2 increases attack speed as well, so if it's a multihit you'll be hit by more hits in the same time period
heavy sigil
Beat EM3
was difficulte
onto Styx
almost died only once on Heroes
but jinxed myself
hushed ledge
EM3 + FO2 is really rough yeah
heavy sigil
also I've had basically no centaur heart luck so I'm lower than most runs on health
cunning urchin
because its hard to keep the weak up for heartrend
It's not hard. 
sonic juniper
Yeah if you want to max dps you'll automatically trigger it in your rotation anyway
cunning urchin
There's also Empty Inside. Great boon.
frail schooner
empty inside is more than just a boon, it’s a way of life
heavy sigil
Onto hades
and previously I saw pattern here but there is physically no way for me to at this point dodge his spins
I'm trying to predict all ways and there just like isn't one
sonic juniper
He only has like 3 spin patterns
frail schooner
i frame it instead of dashing out
heavy sigil
the issue is more with the fact I'm playing fists so I have to be close or else well I don't do damage
cunning urchin
You shouldn't try to predict it. Time your empty dash to i-frame it.
heavy sigil
What does that even mean
sonic juniper
Dodge with empty dash
sonic juniper
Your dash makes you briefly invincible if you dont attack
cunning urchin
Empty Dash means don't Dash-Strike. Doing an Attack during your dash removes your invincible frames (i-frames).
heavy sigil
Not like that will help me at this point
my brain is hard wired into always dash strike mode
cunning urchin
Just a matter of practice.
sonic juniper
So you're just going to refuse to learn how to dodge
heavy sigil
Like I got the dash away part fine but I physically cannot dash in a boss fight without dash striking
Not me trying to do it
sonic mural
then u cant do fo2
heavy sigil
Yes
pseudo stream
but... what? how do you even beat the hydra?
you must take so much needless damage!
sonic mural
how do u dodge his skulls then
heavy sigil
hit them out of the air
sonic mural
you need to dash thru them
sonic mural
waste of time lol
heavy sigil
it's easier than dodging out of the way for me
sonic mural
its one dash over a circle
sonic juniper
You're making your life harder by refusing to learn and practice a fundamental gameplay mechanic
sonic mural
ok
heavy sigil
and I would rather just not have to play FO2
sonic mural
ok
heavy sigil
FO1 sounds really fun
sonic mural
whatever makes the game fun ig
cunning urchin
I guess just get more DPS and beat him that way is always an option.
cunning urchin
You can use a Call to i-frame his spin, too, or a summon.
heavy sigil
but it's so much habit for me that it makes it something I'd rather just not deal with
that is true
cunning urchin
Any call or summon activation will give you i-frames.
heavy sigil
did that a few times
I didn't even know this was a gameplay mechanic
never heard of it before so I didn't know it was one
I play the game weirdly
cunning urchin
lol I just mashed Dash-Strikes with Malphon until like 20 Heat or close to that when I started.
heavy sigil
Oh yeah totally a valid strat
Demeter is fun and the main reason why that is a habit for me
and I'm playing it to have fun
not to master it
different things for me lmao
cunning urchin
I used Zag Fists.
heavy sigil
Haven't tried them since I unlocked fists
gusty rapids
i still just mash dash strikes with malphon at like 40 heat
heavy sigil
I play on M&K, have weird binds and play the game in a way that would seem a LITTLE AGGRESSIVE
and it's fun
sonic juniper
With Divine Dash you really can just keep mashing dash attacks
sonic mural
seems like speedrunning is for u
sonic mural
With Divine Dash you really can just keep mashing dash attacks
not really i still get hit with divine dash
i can see the frame
sonic mural
where i am in divine dash
and there is a circle around me
with a big red "-60" above me
heavy sigil
I didn't even notice why I wasn't getting hit by the spins until like
literally this run
sonic mural
because i missed the iframe by a split second
heavy sigil
so I had no reason to notice empty dashes or whatever they are called
sonic mural
regular dashing?
sonic mural
speedrunning is probably for you then
i love the feeling of being super aggressive without worrying about getting killed
since i know i'll out dps the boss anyways
heavy sigil
And that is the part of the game I like
sonic mural
ofc on high heats you wont be able to do that
heavy sigil
So I'm probably gonna turn on EM4, FO1 and a timer or two
and have more fun that way
sonic mural
you should try the standard 9 heat speedrun - em2, fo2
you dont needa worry about dodging anything
you can just focus purely on damage
heavy sigil
Interesting
my fastest run is like 14 mins
so it's not like I've ever been focusing on that
sonic mural
watch some speedrunning vids on hades speedrun website
or at least the world record
def inspired me to start
heavy sigil
only reason I even got a 14 was cause I heard somebody saying that heart rend was fast
and then just did it
sonic mural
so fun to kill the final boss in under a minute
heavy sigil
and it's still my fastest lmao
the demeter fastest time unseeded is basically just my playstyle already
just really optimized
I've already accepted that I'll never be great at anything I do in this game
so just figuring out what is fun is the real challenge for me
sonic mural
Is it a merciful end build?
heavy sigil
think so?
sonic mural
its pretty easy to get sub 10 u should try
heavy sigil
Doom has never been my thing
sonic juniper
its pretty easy to get sub 10 u should try
Damn, I need to up my game
cunning urchin
lol sub 10 takes some practice. That's not that easy.
pliant anvil
there's a lot of learning and practice to be done to get a sub 10
and luck obviously
cunning urchin
I have two sub 10 times in 724.8 hours.
pliant anvil
you gotta learn the big time saves (i.e. FO1 or FO2), and the small ones (i.e. positioning yourself near the doors to leave faster)
...and a non-5 door styx which is just luck
unreal ocean
Hi there! First post in this Discord. So, Poseidon's Aid is basically impossible for me to control with a wasd keyboard, is there some kind of trick to it?
dry ember
no it is meant to be hard to control
unreal ocean
Oh. Well that's just annoying, and not in any endearing kind of way. Not a fan of that mechanic at all.
proven osprey
is this <@!238040913715265537> 's call sign
GY good pog
warped hound
Wait, does Beo's upgradable stat improve cast damage or just the charge damage itself?
opal lodge
charge damage
if it upgraded cast damage beowulf would be absolutely bonkers
as it stands it is only the best cast weapon in the game
warped hound
Wouldn't say it's better or worse than Coronacht with Hera, since they can make good use of different casts
Stygius with Poseidon, on the other hand...
gusty rapids
i think its better than hera honestly
being able to retrieve ur bloodstones instantly is huge
also being a shield means it can u know. block and stuff
warped hound
"Shield" part makes Hades fight a meme, but so does bow's range if we're being honest
opal lodge
beo also has gigantic AOE that hera noticeably struggles with
warped hound
Well, you do have piercing projectiles still
I get nearly similar times with Hera and Beo
opal lodge
interesting
i dont think that's the case if you look at results across the board
but i cannot argue with your subjective experience
i like both weapons
as a disclaimer
warped hound
Same, as I said I don't think either one is better or worse since both have different bonkers boon combos
sonic juniper
Too slow for my liking
warped hound
@versed lotus Wait until you play it on higher heat.
versed lotus
Yeah, still heat 16
warped hound
Forced overtime makes it nearly unusable on final boss
versed lotus
Btw what is hestia means?
gusty rapids
its an aspect of the last weapon, the railgun
versed lotus
Ooh, ok
stone harbor
Is it just me or is chiron op? In terms of relevant boons I only had aphro/dio with a few levels in dio and hermes dashes
Em4 was easy
hollow helm
It has really good single-target damage
cloud vault
On higher heat you might notice Hidden Bow is a lot stronger
warped hound
You mean the bow?
Nothing here is "OP" per se, although there are some underpowered aspects for most weapons.
Different weapons will work better in different heat settings.
ruby aspen
Rail: aphrodite dash + artemis attack + duo boon. Shotgun blast from hammer. Dash to ennemies to inflict weak, spam shotgun in their face. 450 dmg per crit. I wish i had a chaos boon to increase attack and hermes 30% attack speed... Hades's biggest mistake was standing still to heal himself... poor dude
turbid needle
I'm about to try out my first Extreme Measures run with the sword and was wondering what a good build to try and get is?
turbid needle
Aspect of Nemesis!
tame bison
EM1?
turbid needle
Yup
tame bison
You’ll be fine 🙂
Aphrodite attack/Artemis dash
Athena dash good too
Special just whatever %dmg boon you can find. Doom is okay too
turbid needle
I guess I'm just a bit nervous cause I'm on a 4 win streak and "bosses gain a new technique" is pretty ominous
I have zero idea what to expect lol
turbid needle
Oh so each level of EM affects the individual bosses? So the second rank would be Furies + Hydra?
sonic juniper
Yes
tame bison
It says that if you read the tooltip
turbid needle
I've completely glossed over that, my bad
tame bison
It’s pretty cool. I’ve enjoyed the EM stuff as I’ve tried it
woven wagon
Any help with the Final Boss?
I can get to him with twoDDs
And to half health
Consistently
turbid needle
Looking forward to trying it tbh, having so much fun trying to put builds together as I play. Finding the busted stuff is super fun
woven wagon
Finished his first phase 2 times
tame bison
||It sounds silly but I had a lot of “boss anxiety” and would just punt a lot that fight. Try to focus on dodging the spin move and the skills and don’t worry so much about damage output.||
||And ignore the 2nd phase of adds.||
||don’t ignore if like archers and the invulnerability crystals but if you kill 1st phase the adds die so depends on your dps. But just focus on dodging and learning patterns over doing damage for a run.||
I keep punting runs by trying to kill FO hard labor calisthenics Charon haha
warped hound
Dodge and crit chance stack linearly, right?
tame bison
Yes
warped hound
I see. Even less point to use Arthur, other than for fun and challenge.
tame bison
Not sure why that’s related to Arthur?
warped hound
Just thinking aloud on which aspects should I mainly use for high heat
tame bison
Arthur I think gets dunked on in high heat bc of the slower attack animation. Not bc of anything related to dodge scaling.
warped hound
Arthur was supposed to be the """tank""" aspect, yet not only it works worse with Cursed Slash hammer if you happen to get it, but damage resist is inferior to stacking dodge in every way, and slow animations with no hyperarmor are just not worth it if you can have the fast moveset with crit instead.
tame bison
@turbid needle the mod that changes mini bosses is also interesting.
Cursed slash is bad with everything 😛
turbid needle
I'm new to PC gaming so modding is way out of my wheelhouse sadly
tame bison
I meant the heat mod.
tame bison
Haha
warped hound
Cursed slash is bad with everything 😛
Maybe for speedrunning it is. But I don't pretend to be a speedrunner.
I'd rather have my easymode hammer thank you very much.
tame bison
I mean it’s pretty much universally considered awful? But to each their own
That and cruel thrust are easily the worst hammers
warped hound
Well, so glad I couldn't care less about universal opinion then.
sonic juniper
||don’t ignore if like archers and the invulnerability crystals but if you kill ...
The archer adds are the worst. I'm still not sure how to handle them well, feels like their attacks never end.
tame bison
Let me know how your 100 HP High heat sword run goes where you use attack over dash strike.
warped hound
100 HP
Not cancelling normal attacks into dashes
woven wagon
Besides Dio what would be a good god for Rail?
heady peak
+% boon rarity is just so awesome lol check this out
https://i.imgur.com/IAZYtKw.png
sonic juniper
Besides Dio what would be a good god for Rail?
Zeus, except for Hestia. Better than Dio.
past raven
Too bad you got that on only 1 heat lol that’s a really good build
heady peak
@past raven I'm new to shield, so I'm farming some darkness as it has the +20% buff... also some stars for the keepsake from sisyphus
silk oxide
Empowering Flight and Aspect of Zeus don't actually work the way i was hoping it would x.x
viral star
do you guys think charged shot is a good hammer on the shield
past raven
If you can get that and Minotaur rush you pretty much have a bow that does more damage and can block
coarse moss
it's good except when beowulf. the movement on bullrush is awesome for picking up bloodstone
past raven
I use zeus because I don’t like heavier builds
serene quartz
Is Athens’s cast good ?
viral star
it can be
needs some work though, a few duos
correct me if I'm wrong but i think the best casts for cast builds are ares and dionysus
tame bison
Depends on cast build you mean bc they aren’t as good for Hera for example and are awful for Poseidon
Ares is tricky to make good without the Artemis duo too
I don’t even know about Ares with Beowulf. Sounds weird.
Don’t think that works. Basically ares only works with Achilles spear
opal lodge
it's 80 base dmg charged shot is insane
ares can be good with achilles
the problem with casts like crystal beam and slicing shot is youre looking for one T2 and a duo
while zeus cast is just fantastic out the gate
fair cairn
hunting blades is very important (borderline mandatory) for ares cast builds which is basically just achilles
it doesnt work well on hera and poseidon
you can maybe try slotting it into a talos build
opal lodge
even on beo charged shot is probably the best lowish heat hammer
charged shot just turns your turbonuke melee weapon into a stronger turbonuke ranged weapon
stone harbor
it doesnt work well on hera and poseidon
Why do you think hunting blades is bad on poseidon? 50% cast damage is pretty nice
tame bison
True. Theoretically you could just get a Cast dmg chaos boon and then run nemesis for the crit chance.
If you aren’t using the dislodge feature then nemesis plus chaos could be better?
hollow helm
Nemesis only affects Attack iirc
fair cairn
nemesis is only for attack
hollow helm
For Poseidon Ares Cast, there's a bit of anti-synergy with the fact that Poseidon can dislodge bloodstones with a cast that doesn't lodge bloodstones, but it should still work fine
stone harbor
50% cast damage is really good. If you have a cast that can't be dislodged it is really no problem
hollow helm
Poseidon Sword is probably the best cast weapon for meme-y Cast builds like Crystal Beam and Blades
warped hound
Yea is decent for memes, but unless you bet your run on getting a proper dislodge build - you're better off just using Stygian Soul
pliant anvil
Poseidon Sword is probably the best cast weapon for meme-y Cast builds like Crys...
Probably achilles actually. 150% damage vs 50%
vague spoke
https://imgur.com/gallery/HgWBVYO
Very cool dash build.
turbid needle
Achilles, Stygian Soul, and a full-tilt Crystal Clarity build is prooobably the strongest Cast in the game.
Poseidon is explicitly better at using lodging casts and Infernal Soul, but all of Demeter's, Ares', and Dionysus' Casts all last longer than 3 seconds on the field, so if you can get multiple Casts (chasing Fully Loaded is great if Chaos won't cooperate) you start to stack multiple sets of Casts on the field. You ever get 9 Mirage Shot CC lasers on the field at once? I have.
drifting vale
Dont forget hermes bad news
turbid needle
I wasn't lucky enough to get it that time, but I find that % boosts to Achilles builds are a little superfluous.
At least, direct Cast strength boosts.
I still look for Privileged Status on any given build.
drifting vale
I prefer the consistency so i rarely run PS but yeah ive gotten Artemis and hermes once with Artemis cast i dont remember what weapon i was using but it didnt matter
I also had i think one extra stack from chaos so i was able to just one shot most enemies
I have gotten hermes a few times on ares and thats pretty fun
tame bison
Does the level or %dmg on your strike affect the strength of your dash attack? Like does Artemis dash stack %dmg with your strike boon?
turbid needle
Yes.
Hunter Dash does not boost standing Attacks, but every boon that affects your standing Attack (including Chaos Strike boons) will boost Dash-Strike as well.
Hammers that specify Attack or Dash-Strike will not affect the other. Shadow Slash on Stygius doesn't boost Backstab damage for Dash-Strikes, for example.
tame bison
Thank you
cloud vault
Dash strike effects work for dash upper right?
opal lodge
yes
breaching is also a weird exception to the sword hammers rule
unlike shadow, it "says" attack but also applies to dash strikes
turbid needle
Oh, yeah, should have mentioned that too
As far as I know all of the Armor hammers universally affect Attack and Dash-Strikes.
honest wing
what are some good ways to take with aspect of rama and lucifer
rama special and lucifer attack benefit from similar stuff right, zeus basically?
but anything else that works?
is artemis attack on rama good?
turbid needle
I think the current Heat record is 60 Heat with Rama.
Deadly Strike, Triple Shot, Perfect Shot.
honest wing
oh, I'm still working around no heat with bow
turbid needle
Point-Blank is probably better than Perfect.
honest wing
oh deadly strike is a yes?
empty narwhal
My hunting blades and merciful end seem so much more inconsistent than they were.
coarse moss
double shot on rama is much more comfy to use than triple
agreed about perfect shot. sometimes you just dont get to wait for the flash if enemies are too close
keen mesa
I really hate power shot, because you have to fire right before it finishes charging up fully, and that annoys me lol
I don't have time to watch my character for the flash AND the enemies
past raven
Any tips for aspect of Talos fists builds? I usually try to get crit on special and doom on attack but I was wondering if there was a better option
coarse moss
poseidon on special, zeus on attack. get sea storm
past raven
Does the magnet effect overpower the knockback from Poseidon
stone harbor
I really hate power shot, because you have to fire right before it finishes char...
You should not have to watch your character, just get used to timing it automatically. It takes less long to charge if you dash strike so do that every shot
turbid needle
No.
You only get one hit because Tempest Flourish knockback takes them out of range of the second hit.
past raven
Can I still chain a special into attack or no
turbid needle
You can grab them with the Magnet Cutter and Dash out of it to get the damage boost but not get locked into Special animation.
coarse moss
i use it like this, pull > dash > punch
past raven
Ok I’ll try that
Also I try to get Demeter on dash is there a better one I should do
Because freeze really helps against shielded enemies
coarse moss
if you like it, nothing wrong with that
if you get tidal dash works great with sea storm
stone harbor
if you get tidal dash works great with sea storm
If you try that you are going to have to get poseidon somewhere other than your dash btw
Athena is also great because it gives more iframes
past raven
If I can I go for her dash but I rarely get her
past raven
Yeah it just deflects projectiles
coarse moss
get poseidon on special. you pull and knockback. do it near walls with breaking wave, its fun
noble tiger
invulnerability frames
past raven
Iframe = invincibility frame
noble tiger
you cant take damage during iframes