that's helpful, thanks
#h1-builds-and-combat
coarse moss
cunning urchin
Are you sure you're doing empty dashes? Dash-Strikes don't have i-frames.
Don't know the exact number, anyway. Don't need to. Just need to know the timing for things and what I can react to or have to predict.
woven delta
Splitting Bolt as far as legendaries are concerned
For Duos, I've become real fond of Cold Fusion (Zeus + Demeter), and Sea Storm (Zeus + Poisiden) can be wild in terms of damage
cosmic hornet
i've been trying to test ME zeus, but ME keeps evading me
lime lynx
Yea I tried one with Zeus and died to bone hydra of all bosses. Then I went back to ME and cleared very comfortably (+1 heat in both cases). How does Demeter special work? If there are multiple enemies it feels like it hits them all sometimes but mostly lands all specials on the same target.
Also
pine flax
what does ME stand for?
woven delta
The one that makes Doom effects trigger instantly when you hit with a deflect attack
pine flax
oh how does ME zeus aspect work? athena special and ares on attack?
turbid needle
the opposite
pine flax
ah ok
outer cave
which of the weapon secret aspects has the best titan blood scaling
river wing
gy wroks at lv1 
outer cave
lucifer seems really fun to use
turbid needle
gy at lv 1 is miserable
outer cave
what boons should i use for gilgamesh
turbid needle
splash dash
half crater
which of the weapon secret aspects has the best titan blood scaling
probably chiron
river wing
% scaling attack works well. artemis/aphro/athena/demeter. first 2 for damage. latter 2 for utility.
Dash spam builds works well. blade/tidal.
And ofc ME always works
half crater
or maybe eris because eris is silly
river wing
secret aspect tho
outer cave
what does ME stand for?
half crater
ohh lmao i can’t read
outer cave
isnt it like merciful end or smthn
half crater
GY then
outer cave
forgot which duo that was
lime lynx
oh how does ME zeus aspect work? athena special and ares on attack?
To clarify, I mostly play Talos aspect and the question was for Demeter asking if it had a similar build as Talos.
cosmic hornet
merciful end, yeah
river wing
works with any weapon
lime lynx
For the glove Merciful End makes short work of final boss I feel. I clear 100% of the times I get ME, and using no defiances even (please note I am a casual )
half crater
well, maybe not any weapon
it’d be pretty impractical with arthur, for example
but pretty much yeah
lime lynx
Doom hurts and the duo boon just makes the victims death easier by giving them a quick and arguably painless 'end' 🙇♂️
opal lodge
there's a joke in the speedrunning community that ME is the shortcut to making slow weapons go fast
and ME is the predominant build on terrible weapons with nothing going for them speedwise (ie zag sword)
turbid needle
me is just a cheap tactic to make weak weapons stronger
opal lodge
still can be but heart rend is generally faster now that you can get it online easier
outer cave
ok i dont know if the splash dash thing was a joke but its working super well
lime lynx
What are generally accepted as 'strong' weapons?
opal lodge
ME relies on how quickly you get ME
river wing
i mean it's less grind
but look at the zag sword time.. and imagine if that was nem instead
opal lodge
when you could get ME from just curse of agony and divine dash that meant it could be gotten super fast
river wing
less grind but might have more potential tbh.
turbid needle
anything except for zag spear
river wing
in terms of going fast that is
lime lynx
oh that was possible?
opal lodge
i think in early access
cosmic hornet
that's part of why i want to test ME zeus
because you don't strictly need divine dash for it to work well
river wing
i mean. zag spear gets okay if you rng the right hammers.
turbid needle
id much rather use hades aspect which is better in like every way
river wing
hades cannot flurry jab
river wing
achillis/gy is better for that
pine flax
is there any way to apply freeze to a whole room?
killing freeze seems cool
an easy way**
river wing
it activates pretty easily if you're something like demeter dash
turbid needle
I like hades spear bc it does big dmg without me having to think about it
opal lodge
spinning fun
turbid needle
pine flax
do people prefer dark foresight or olympian's favor?
frail schooner
foresight
opal lodge
foresight 1000% of the time unless youre farming meta
river wing
you've the mirror for epics
opal lodge
also rare boons are nice but 1. keepsakes give rarity bonuses and 2. more boons > less boons
pine flax
is 1 sack possible
pine flax
thirst + chaos boon + poseidon boon and then beat every boss
make sure to buy the item from wells that guarantees a trove
river wing
Just try to get bounties for more blood? You'll get gemstones from easy boss anyways
turbid needle
vanquishers keep and fishing in styx have given me an obscene amount of gems
pine flax
is there always a fishing spot in styx?
i feel like im always missing the fishing spots
river wing
no. fishing spots will have a "DING!" sound. so just watch out for that
pine flax
oop i sohuld raise my volume/not play music then probs
turbid needle
Does gold ever come out of normal pots
devout ether
No, only the shiny ones
rare kindle
If you're wearing Dusa's keepsake, food can come out of normal pots
coarse moss
rail attack with zeus or dionysus, which is stronger?
hardy escarp
||what’s vanquishers keep?||
pliant anvil
rail attack with zeus or dionysus, which is stronger?
zeus
pine flax
||what’s vanquishers keep?||
you get gemstones along with darkness for killing bosses
coarse moss
i see, thanks
hardy escarp
Oh they renovation upgrade
pine flax
yes
hardy escarp
I just forgot it was called that and saw it mentioned and was worried I was missing out on a way to farm gems
turbid needle
low tolerance if you're running dio
pine flax
is there a bot for boons
solid cairn
you also get free privileged status
normally I'm not a fan of priv but since you don't have to go out of your way to get it and pretty much the first thing you're doing to an enemy is attack and then special, it's the right call I feel
turbid needle
family favorite better
i stopped taking arty/dio start so i've been going family fave
no need to think and ur only losing out on 15% additive damage
solid cairn
i agaree
but for low tolerance PS is probably better
since you don't have to do anything you wouldn't normally do to get it
turbid needle
its just 15% damage
thats less than pomming ur attack once
ps? it's +40% at max
ohhh
im dum, you were talking abt the difference
it's good if you're shooting for a build like that from the start
cosmic hornet
PS on dio chiron is nice
pliant anvil
PS is definitely situational
It's good on anything that uses demeter ice nova on cast and aphrodite cast. It can also be pretty decent on a Dio + Aphro build
it's definitely not a general pick though
solid cairn
if you just happen to use a build that has 2 innate status curses go for it, but honestly trying to go out of your way to get it is a bit of a waste
deep salmon
which beam duo is better for achilles
cosmic hornet
artemis
rare kindle
artemis is just strong in general for cast builds
solid cairn
she used to be way stronger lol
pseudo stream
is special relevant at all on Chiron/Zag bow?
pliant anvil
is special relevant at all on Chiron/Zag bow?
it's the main damage focus of chiron
turbid needle
^ yeah lol
pseudo stream
whoops, Hera*** sorry haha
pliant anvil
oh, well, it's decent for quickly finishing off other foes
but not especially, the attack on hera isn't even important
you're mostly looking for whatever cast + duos
On zag, it's mostly to help apply a status curse/proc something like deadly reversal for extra crit chance/crit damage
solid cairn
On zag, it's mostly to help apply a status curse/proc something like deadly reve...
a little slow for that
pine flax
is sweet surrender additive damage?
pliant anvil
is sweet surrender additive damage?
I don't think so, it works weirdly iirc according to @opal lodge's testing
solid cairn
99% sure
pliant anvil
it increased damage by way more than they were expecting
solid cairn
most things are additivr
but it's global damage iirc
meaning it applies to literally everything
pliant anvil
it also says "enemies take more damage"
Which is slightly different than "you deal more damage"
solid cairn
true
pliant anvil
the wording implies if you had a global damage buff of 50%, and the enemy had a debuff of 50%, you'd end up with 125% more damage, not 100% more
solid cairn
I guess that means it also works like that for PS
pliant anvil
I don't think so
solid cairn
what is the best way to apply hangover
definitely special lol
pliant anvil
well, rama is good at spreading it
pine flax
oh really i thought chrion bow like
pliant anvil
to break DC and stuff
pine flax
always wants arty on special
solid cairn
dionysus is a different thing
pliant anvil
It does, but you don't ahve to go with the most optimal playstyle
pine flax
but dio on special sounds cool too
solid cairn
yeah
pine flax
im gonna try that next
pseudo stream
I looove Rama, but I've played too much
trying some zag
dunno what to do with special haha
pliant anvil
considering that chrion can max out your stacks on an enemy with 1 attack and special
pliant anvil
dunno what to do with special haha
use it to proc stuff like weak for heart rend or whatever
you're mostly using it to enable duos
pliant anvil
i.e. deadly reversal or heart rend
that said, artemis on attack is all you really need
solid cairn
use it to proc stuff like weak for heart rend or whatever
again it's pretty slow for that
pseudo stream
I'm doing Aphrodite attack atm
solid cairn
honestly if you want heart rend you may want aphro attack and artemis special
devout ether
again it's pretty slow for that
Read what he wrote again
pliant anvil
I'm doing Aphrodite attack atm
aphrodite attack is decent
solid cairn
since zag bow has innate crit that means the difference between aphro and artemis attack is a lot smaller
pliant anvil
honestly if you want heart rend you may want aphro attack and artemis special
100% disagree. Crit is additive
arty attack is a doubling of your crit chance
deadly reversal gets you to 50% crit iirc
solid cairn
pliant anvil
especially since arty attack gets more mileage from other sources of +attack% stuff
like chaos boons
solid cairn
I know
zag bow is kind of a boring weapon so I'm trying to find any way to make it interesting haha
pliant anvil
zeus attack
solid cairn
interesting does not equal bad
ok if you want to be like that, arthur with zeus attack
river wing
Sounds good
solid cairn
which is actually worse than no attack, because you can't even use shackle
turbid needle
^
pliant anvil
well, no, interesting does not equal bad, but most people here are trying to get advice on good or "best" builds, not "interesting" builds
pliant anvil
basically yeah
solid cairn
I think it's pretty invalidated by rama but that's besides the point
pliant anvil
I would agree, shared suffering be able to kill stuff after armor breaking is pretty good
and one shot killing several enemies and all
solid cairn
like, rama is probably faster in speedruns, and is one of the best high heat aspects in the game
pliant anvil
tbf, most zag weapons are "boring" imo. They make the weapon slightly better, but they don't do anything unique
turbid needle
zag shield is crazy
pliant anvil
they just give some positive stat bonus
eh, I prefer zeus or beowulf shield personally
zeus cuz it's easy to cheese with, and beowulf because big cast damage
never messed with zag shield much
turbid needle
solid cairn
zag shield is fun
zag sword is fun as well, and I kind of like it solely because it makes the attack hammers, flurry and world splitter, better
pliant anvil
I feel like a heroic artemis attack makes almost anything pretty good though
solid cairn
and even for that incredibly niche, not even that good use, I like it
solid cairn
rarity hardly matters with arty
pliant anvil
assuming you get chaos boons to help boost the damage
Or hammers that help
if you don't, the extra damage for rarity is nice
since each rarity is worth what, a pom each?
solid cairn
yeah but you also get that from a few poms
turbid needle
what attack has the most knockback
pliant anvil
yeah, but higher rarities are worth quite a few poms
like, epic is 2, and heroic is 3 iirc?
solid cairn
it's nice but you will never roll a common attack to get a higher rarity one
pliant anvil
well, no, and I never suggested such
rolls are better saved for duos or legendaries usually. Or other build required boons I suppose
solid cairn
the only time I reroll for rarity is like, some casts
opal lodge
i think it was something else
sweet surrender/targeting sys are both confirmed additive global i think
turbid needle
I love targeting system
solid cairn
targeting is like an A tier hammer
pliant anvil
yeah, I'm not suggesting to reroll for rarity, just that on artemis, it's "hampered" by lower damage bonus to offset the crit obviously.
solid cairn
even on non eris
opal lodge
rolling for rarity is never a good idea imo
solid cairn
it's good support
opal lodge
good way to reset quickly 🙂
pliant anvil
yuuuup
turbid needle
lmao
solid cairn
well sometimes in some speedruns like hera bow you kind of shoot yourself in the foot with common crush shot
pliant anvil
All I'm saying is a heroic artemis is very nice if you don't get any chaos boons are attack damage boosting hammers.
opal lodge
common crush shot is only 20 damage difference compared to epic iirc
solid cairn
what
opal lodge
could be wrong but i think that's the case
solid cairn
my life is a lie
pliant anvil
wiki says 20 damage difference
opal lodge
common is 90 and epic is 110 i believe
pliant anvil
10 per rarity
solid cairn
I swear my runs have like
opal lodge
rare is 100
solid cairn
maybe that's like
cosmic hornet
placebo
solid cairn
because of my golden rule
opal lodge
hera attack damage is not insignificant
solid cairn
if your main damage boon is epic chances are the run is gonna slap
opal lodge
also
cosmic hornet
do you reset if you get common
opal lodge
it's probably placebo
pliant anvil
if your main damage boon is epic chances are the run is gonna slap
it's prolly cuz tartarus is where your power is lowest
solid cairn
listen I don't care about no pachinko effect
pliant anvil
so an epic damage boon feels way stronger there
opal lodge
i remember specifically someone in speed disc telling me hera cast rarity does not matter
pliant anvil
but later on in like, styx, the epic rarity matters a lot less
solid cairn
ah
pliant anvil
which, 100 vs 140 is kinda sizable
solid cairn
although it is pretty slow so the damage difference is a little less significant
I think
I'm tired I have no idea
pliant anvil
well, 1 pom on anything is the biggest increase you'll get
since it falls off quickly afterwards
i.e. the difference between a level 10 boon and a level 15 boon is pretty small iirc
turbid needle
yeah it hits different
opal lodge
first pom matters more than anything else
granite lava
does anyone have a list of the most popular QoL requests?
pseudo stream
woooow guys Zag bow is strooong
pliant anvil
does anyone have a list of the most popular QoL requests?
I don't think so, I wouldn't even know where to begin looking tbh. Maybe trying to reach out to a dev team or hosting a poll yourself?
granite lava
I don't think so, I wouldn't even know where to begin looking tbh. Maybe trying ...
The poll is a good idea, probably gonna try that
turbid needle
Bet you fifty cents the number 1 request is Chamber on-screen.
pliant anvil
that actually would be a pretty nice feature @granite lava
granite lava
Bet you fifty cents the number 1 request is Chamber on-screen.
what do you mean?
cosmic hornet
room number?
turbid needle
You know how we have the in-game option to put the run timer on the screen? How long the run has been?
I'm almost certain the most requested feature would be an in-game option to permanently display the Chamber number in the top right corner instead of requiring players to open the Boon Menu to check.
cosmic hornet
yes please
rare kindle
Yes, I want to see chamber number permanently
devout imp
It would be nice if tight deadline paused when looking at boons too
gloomy zenith
good boons for demeter fists?
devout imp
percentage special boons are pretty neat
turbid needle
Lightning or Frost Strike, Deadly or Heartbreak Flourish.
Actually, Curse of Agony instead of Frost Strike.
cosmic hornet
divine strike if you want to play it safer
gloomy zenith
whose boon is deadly flourish
turbid needle
Artemis.
sage carbon
If you go Ares attack yoh should go Athena special for their duo
gloomy zenith
yeah for ME
sage carbon
With athena dash aftwrward you can drop the special
turbid needle
Wow, I have not played around enough with Rama.
gloomy zenith
ye
plain tartan
Holy hell. I had no idea that Ares main attack was so bad with the rails hidden form
gloomy zenith
yeah can't take advantage of doom when your attacks are so fast
plain tartan
Who's boon is best for the rail with hidden aspect? I like zues's special. Bit how about for main
gloomy zenith
dionises can be good
turbid needle
Zeus is best for every Rail attack except Spread Fire Zag Aspect or Hestia.
near schooner
I can't seem to escape using spear or bow. I've made it out 6 total times (of like 110 lol) but die pretty early with bow or spear
sonic juniper
Where are you dying with those?
sonic juniper
Are you using any aspects?
tough pebble
is the gilgamesh aspect for the fists any good? having them deal 50% more damage and only doing 25% more damage to them seems a bit difficult to play with
granite lava
I'm almost certain the most requested feature would be an in-game option to perm...
oh yeah I see
turbid needle
Both Chiron and Guan Yu kinda-sorta-not-really require maximum investment. Do you have them both at level 5?
granite lava
It would be nice if tight deadline paused when looking at boons too
it doesn't pause?
turbid needle
It does when looking at the Codex, not when opening the Boon Menu.
gloomy zenith
chiron bow is booty if not maxed
sonic juniper
Cast builds make spear a lot easier in Elysium for me, since going toe to toe with spearmen or masses of bows suck if you can't burst them down
Don't use GY if you can't reliably dodge
Chiron on Hades: use heart rend or the dio + aphro duo
And yes those are heavy investment aspects as mentioned
near schooner
Both Chiron and Guan Yu kinda-sorta-not-really require maximum investment. Do yo...
1 guan yu, 2 chiron
sonic juniper
Lol never do 1 GY, that's a challenge run
turbid needle
Like, absolute maximum challenge run. 
devout imp
@granite lava as far as I'm aware it only pauses on the codex not when bring up the current boons you have
turbid needle
You have a few spare Titan's Blood for Aspect of Zag or Hera?
sonic juniper
Cast builds have good blood payoff
sonic juniper
Hera bow, or max out Zag bow
granite lava
<@186162299298512898> as far as I'm aware it only pauses on the codex not when b...
I see. Well those are easy things I can fix
devout imp
That would be pretty pog
sonic juniper
Go Achilles cast/hybrid or Hades spear
granite lava
I made a mod that adds the boon list cosmetic to Daedalus hammer a while ago, thought I could start from there and just make it a general QoL mod
turbid needle
wait, can't you open the boon menu when codex is up? i don't remember
near schooner
Go Achilles cast/hybrid or Hades spear
hades spear seems like my kind of playstyle. I'll get it
devout imp
I'm talking about current boons in the run not the boon list @turbid needle
turbid needle
yeah ik
devout imp
Wait what you can do that???
turbid needle
not sure lmao i was wondering
i feel like i do that but i don't know if i'm remembering wrong
devout imp
Now I'm not sure I'll have to test it out lol
Anyone have tips on beating em4 Hades
Do I kill the miniboss adds he summons or focus him down?
turbid needle
Now I'm not sure I'll have to test it out lol
i just checked, you can't lol mb
i think im remembering it that way since i tend to check codex to see my boons and what i can build into
bad memory gang
I unlocked the aspect of guan yu the other day... my whole play style is speed, so it isn't great. I appreciate the damage it does, but I used spin attack half of the time too
Hunting blades is op
gloomy zenith
indeed
turbid needle
I think I've played with all those at once apart from lightning rod. Very op, very fun.
olive spruce
Do I kill the miniboss adds he summons or focus him down?
focus him down if you can, unless the minibosses are too annoying
devout imp
any tips for when he puts up the fog all over the arena
cloud vault
I find that Hug Dad works well
Stay close and keep the pressure up. Of course if you're on bow you stay a little further away
spiral tree
demeter fist vs gilga?
pallid glade
Would be a close fight, I'd say.
spiral tree
cunning urchin
I unlocked the aspect of guan yu the other day... my whole play style is *speed*...
Special > Dash-Strike x2 is your optimal rotation for DPS with Guan Yu.
zenith orchid
Yeah guan yu basic feels kinda bad ngl
proven osprey
!
river wing
hehe
scenic meadow
I feel like I must be using arthur terribly wrong. Clearing ~20 heat, but 32 heat seems absolutely impossible and I think part of the reason is that I almost never use the special. It seems to take too long with forced overtime 2, enemies keep getting to me first and disrupting it
scenic meadow
wait huh
you can special and then move while it sets up?
as long as you don't get hit
river wing
you get iframes from the dash
scenic meadow
oh that's crazy, I did not know that
but for bigger rooms like some in asphodel/elysium, some of those dudes move really fast so it feels like I'd have to chase them around the room instead of standing in the aura anyway. do you usually chase them down?
cunning urchin
I feel like I must be using arthur terribly wrong. Clearing ~20 heat, but 32 hea...
Don't take FO at 32.
river wing
I assuming you're already dashing between your strikes, right?
scenic meadow
yep, as much as I can
FO1 should be ok, I think? but FO2 does make the whole thing seem ridiculous sometimes (i also run td3 lol)
proven osprey
DC2 is free
olive spruce
on arthur?
cunning urchin
Don't take DC lol he's trolling.
olive spruce
heightened security might be reasonable with the aura
proven osprey
I mean it is crossed out 
scenic meadow
2late i have taken jury, calisthenics and dc2
river wing
ow... what do you do astaos, he now has dc2
proven osprey
tbh I don't feel guilty
solid cairn
do it
scenic meadow
dw i wasn't being serious either lol
proven osprey
not me Cin lmao
solid cairn
yes you
proven osprey
yeah we know that
scenic meadow
i don't run dc except on rail and fists sometimes
proven osprey
Nope I ain't touching sword
solid cairn
I will not tolerate this sword slander
proven osprey
I respect sword players
scenic meadow
rail is still the only thing i've cleared 32 with
river wing
o which rail?
proven osprey
be lucy pls
olive spruce
for me it was cluster rocket bombs
scenic meadow
hestia, i suspect eris might be easier but i got too used to pressing r at lower heats
river wing
hestia 😄
olive spruce
I did it first try
me too!
river wing
yep
solid cairn
by someone who came out of nowhere
river wing
doing it first try doesn't mean it is a joke tho 😦
olive spruce
it was pretty easy with cluster rocket bombs
river wing
that's like saying something is easy with ME.
olive spruce
fair
river wing
hmm. i got 40 with hestia first try.
olive spruce
I did pick eris rail because I thought it was prettly likely for me to get a 32 heat clear with it though
river wing
on my first 40heat attempt
proven osprey
marsh veldt
If i get dio special on excalibur, does the aura apply hangover as long as it's up?
marsh veldt
Ty
dark raft
Okay
proven osprey
dark raft
Low IQ question then?
Yeah i think that works.
On some weapons like the spear, what do you use the special for? to proc boons?
dark raft
Oh yeah if i get the explosive spear I will use it the entire run
Only wish i had more dakka.
proven osprey
But generally other aspects are built around attack
dark raft
I havent gotten into aspects yet.
So I am guessing im going to start mixing attacks once i get into those?
cunning urchin
by someone who came out of nowhere
I mean Lili had 1st place in the previous patch. That's not exactly out of nowhere lol.
solid cairn
well they weren't known as a top player and then they posted like a top 4 time at first
cunning urchin
@solid cairn did anybody post after your message? I thought I saw a message, but I don't see anything. 
finite siren
is it a lot to deal 1750 with the missile with the gun
ok that sentence doesn't make sense but you get the idea
pallid glade
it's pretty nice
The rocket bombs with the rail are very strong though
so I don't know if it's near the top of what you can get
finite siren
i had legendary heartbreak flourish with 266%
the 5 missile upgrade
the rocket upgrade
and swift flourish
so every llike second or something I dealt 1750 point blank to enemies
I absolutely destroyed Hades
forest marsh
Cluster rockets are truly the dream on the rail 
pallid glade
that's a nice combo.
I don't think it gets much better at that point 😄
Maybe with like, Sweet Surrender?
Or appropriate chaos?
solid cairn
this person is a rail specialist
we have an honor system going
what
like we aren't really suspicious of runs
hell in races you don't even need a recording
turbid needle
What is about GY's special that is different than the base spear that's great?
proven osprey
It's way more powerful and pierces
sonic juniper
Wait... pierces as in, vs the shieldbearers in Elysium?
lime lynx
Its like the name of the effect it goes through enemies if I am not wrong
proven osprey
yeah basically
river wing
I just learn that Dashing flight causes it to be affected by Hunter's dash.
interesting interaction
cunning urchin
It's basically an Exploding Launcher with piercing. Regular Spear throw has piercing but no AOE, Exploding Launcher has AOE but no piercing. Guan Yu's Throw has both.
turbid needle
I like the spin throw better it seems
but i'll use the special more
GY is such a beast
after it has a few levels
it's a little rough lvl 1
cunning urchin
Astaos just did 40 Heat mirrorless with Guan Yu. Could check that out for some ideas for how to play the aspect when he's submitted it to the leaderboard.
Should be on his Twitch already, actually.
@proven osprey right?
proven osprey
Right!
tidal tide
WAIT WHAT
40 HEAT MIRRORLESS GUAN YU
@proven osprey im always suffering using guan yu, cant even get past asphodel, any tips you would give...?
proven osprey
Why do you die?
proven osprey
There's a lot to tell about the aspect and Nyaanyaa knows better than me but here's a few thing
tidal tide
mhm
proven osprey
The safest way to play is to build around special
tidal tide
any gods you might prefer?
proven osprey
Aphrodite by far
tidal tide
because of the high damage percentage value if i get you right?
proven osprey
It has amazing damage and the weak effect is really good
tidal tide
ohhh
proven osprey
you have low hp so 30% reduction is so good (and that's a minimum)
tidal tide
i see
proven osprey
Be careful with your dashes
proven osprey
No I mean
Usually people die because they spam their dash or get caught on the special wind up
You have to "think" your movement to be always safe
proven osprey
I'll upload my run, you'll see how I play
tidal tide
alright then!
proven osprey
But you since the optimal dps is double dash strike into special
tidal tide
40 heat no mirror is such a gg and guan yu made it a perfect gg
double dash strike into special?
proven osprey
It's not perfect at all, my Hades fight is just panic cause I can't handle pressure lol
tidal tide
still its a clear!
proven osprey
double dash strike into special?
yeah it's the most effective way to dps
tidal tide
alright ill keep that in mind
wait so i dash strike twice and special and repeat ig...?
not like special->Dash strike x2->special?
proven osprey
You can do that also lol
weak violet
Is cold embrace is epic with a demeter cast build on achilles
proven osprey
yeha it's right to begin with special
tidal tide
oooooo
cunning urchin
Special > Dash-Strike x2 rotation is the same thing as Dash-Strike x2 > Special rotation lol.
cunning urchin
It's just that while your dashes are on CD, you do Special, and vice versa.
proven osprey
Yeah I was not saying to rush at melee range and special after lol
"no, he said double dash strike so I won't special before"
potent granite
what is the best build for the rails hidden aspect.
proven osprey
@tidal tide You could consider deadly flourish with heartbreak strike to get Heart rend. It's as high as it can get in terms of dps
There's also the berserk mode
Serrated point, dash strike everything to death (yours or theirs)
turbid needle
my 1st world problems: not using all of the bouldy summons
tidal tide
<@!464784467391676436> You could consider deadly flourish with heartbreak strike...
This looks good! Thanks!
stone harbor
is it just me or is ice wine abd with beowulf? hades kept dodging it because of the delay
solid cairn
It is bad
stone harbor
I did 2.3k damage with it once though lol
I just picked it because I always got it when it was offered before
solid cairn
Beo does big number
solid cairn
Like slow in clear speed or slow in moveset
solid cairn
Oh dash strike is a lot better
finite siren
why did no one tell me Stygian Soul was straight up Infernal Soul but better
river wing
because it isn't
finite siren
I thought we only had one cast and that it got out away from enemies faster than usual, but it's not even that
it's "you get a cast every 3 second" that's just insane
hasty echo
what is the base cd on cast?
stone harbor
if you have something like demeter or dio cast stygian is prohably better
but anything that gets stuck in enemies is better with infernal
finite siren
if you have something like demeter or dio cast stygian is prohably better
is it really ? cause cast still get stuck in enemies, if anything you can stack up to 4 casts in enemies which is pointless but it shows that it's superior
stone harbor
but it takes 3 seconds between every cast
finite siren
the only downside is that you can't spam cast and have to wait 3 seconds between uses but who does that ?
well yeah that's not a problem ?
solid cairn
why did no one tell me Stygian Soul was straight up Infernal Soul but better
it's... not
think about it this way, extra casts are pretty much extra damage
finite siren
idk to me casts are just a way to apply Boiling Blood to enemies
stone harbor
for when you just cast for the bonus damage I would prohably pick stygian for quality of life but stygian is still better damage
solid cairn
in that case stygian is better
river wing
infernal is great at clearing out normal rooms. 3 aoe cast can destroy pretty fast. and they wont' get stuck in enemies because it's usually enough to kill them.
finite siren
hell yeah Stygian is better
solid cairn
but you can't make a blanket statement about one thing being better than the other without taking into account different uses
river wing
It won't work that well against bosses, unless you're using poiseidon sword or seomthing
solid cairn
that's just... dumb lol
finite siren
you sacrifice an early damage burst but get so much more in return there's really no reason for me to go back to infernal soul
river wing
Or imagine you're using Seeking blades, infernal is just 3 blades out at all time
but stygian is 1 every 3seconds.
solid cairn
trust me as someone who has used beowulf a lot
river wing
ofc you can get more from chaos. but that's not consistent
then you go to beo/hera... and like..
solid cairn
as much as I don't like infernal beo it's a lot more consistent
solid cairn
^
finite siren
hmm okay maybe
solid cairn
wdym maybe lol
hasty echo
now i want to try making a posiedon blade build work
finite siren
for my personal playstyle it's definitely an upgrade and i'm a bit disappointed i never even tried stygian soul, the description makes it sound super bad
river wing
i mean. even if your playstyle is a certain way. it's still going to defer from aspects to aspect
pallid glade
Using cast only for boiling blood is viable - but you're missing out
finite siren
perhaps but it's better than not using it at all because i've spent my three casts early in a fight and they're somewhere in the room and i cant get to them
now i get to cast every 3 seconds it definitely is an upgrade to my dps
pallid glade
I mean, sure. If you can't manage your casts at all, then yeah^^
But you do eventually get them back automatically too
finite siren
yeah i know but it's so slow and unreliable
pallid glade
and for a build that actually uses casts, Infernal will often be better
but at this point, I think the point has been made^^
finite siren
but even then like they get stuck into enemies for so long, I really don't see how 3 casts are better when you cant even use them
pallid glade
because apart from bosses, they tend to one-shot things
finite siren
hmm i guess i need to spend more time with the game cause i really don't see it
pallid glade
Casts are very very powerful
finite siren
earlier today i tried to use them to kill firewheels and it didn't even work ? or maybe they had armor i don't remember but
fair lagoon
Are you able to get multiple duo/legendary boons in a single run?
river wing
yes
fair lagoon
k
pallid glade
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsUb_sp8RAw
Here's an example for a fun build, imo
finite siren
question cause i don't use fated authority at all : can you use them to get more than 2 daedalus hammer ?
river wing
no
finite siren
I see
finite siren
yeah i've been f*cked by the anvil when using stygius, got cursed slash as i was about to fight hades, this didnt go well
devout ether
Anvil is almost universally a bad idea
finite siren
idk it's good when you got bad choices with daedalus, since you cant use persuasion on them you can get stuck with poor upgrades
rare kindle
Only take anvil to fill out the codex
pallid glade
Yeah, but unless you have a hammer upgrade you're hoping to get rid of, it's not worth the risk of getting screwed by something like Cursed Slash, imo
devout ether
If you need to high-roll an anvil in order to have a chance to win the run, then the run wasnt worth saving in the first place
finite siren
If you need to high-roll an anvil in order to have a chance to win the run, then...
I disagree, it saved me once or twice already
devout ether
Notice I didnt say anvil CANT win you the run
finite siren
but like yeah in general I don't use it
pliant anvil
I disagree, it saved me once or twice already
they aren't saying it can't be saved
turbid needle
I discovered I want to run the anvil more just to fill the codex
pliant anvil
just that previous mistakes impacted the run far more
devout ether
Just that if it does win you the run, it's because you've made very poor choices leading up to it
turbid needle
buff the anvil imo to be choose an upgrade to swap
devout ether
I dont think that is much of a buff, honestly
turbid needle
i think if you have a choose 3 that you can reroll if you have rolls left is way better
pallid glade
It would make it worthwhile a bunch more often
if I could be sure it's not gonna hit the good upgrade I have, and I could instead ensure that I lose the second, useless upgrade, I'd try it
finite siren
Just that if it does win you the run, it's because you've made very poor choices...
i don't see how luck giving me poor upgrades with the daedalus hammer is a "poor choice" on my end, i didnt ask to get Twin Shot, Charged Volley, or Chain Shot
pallid glade
say I got... rocket bomb and the one that makes it bounce. I don't want to lose rocket bomb, so I'll never risk it
pallid glade
i don't see how luck giving me poor upgrades with the daedalus hammer is a "poor...
those are two of the best upgrades for the bow and a third pretty solid one
turbid needle
There should be a keep sake that lets you reroll hammer choices
pallid glade
if those are what you're complaining about - the mind boggles
(although Charged Volley does depend a bit on build)
finite siren
twin shot gets you nowhere it charges so slowly and doesn't go anywhere
turbid needle
dash attack always
finite siren
charged volley is actually good nevermind but chain shot ? i don't see what it does
pallid glade
Twin Shot is absolutely one of the best bow upgrades just for the sheer damage
Especially with Bow 4
finite siren
but the range sucks
turbid needle
i prefer twin shot over triple shot
pallid glade
That is not enough of a drawback
it's a bit harder to use, but it more than makes up for it
finite siren
it is enough of a drawback it absolutely destroyed one of my run
turbid needle
I love flurry shot on bow
pallid glade
Twin explosive is memey and hard, but a lot of fun^^
finite siren
i died to like Megaera of all things, something I never do
pallid glade
I could see it in very high heat being a drawback, yeah
but up to heat 20, it's plainly one of the best
river wing
twin shot is one of the best hammers.
finite siren
again I disagree it has no range
finite siren
hm i guess it depends of our playstyle again but i really hate it
pallid glade
I'll pick it over Sniper Shot, because that only helps at absolute maximum range, or the special boosts if I don't use the special much
devout ether
i don't see how luck giving me poor upgrades with the daedalus hammer is a "poor...
Those are some of the best hammers lmao what
hahahahaha oh man
pallid glade
But I won't pick it over Twin, Explosive, Triple or the Specials if I do use the special.
devout ether
Twin Shot might be the best bow hammer period
pallid glade
Point Blank is also pretty nice. Twin Point Blank is shweet
finite siren
to me relentless volley and concentrated volley are easily the better upgrades idk what you guys are on
river wing
he seems more inexperience at the game guys, no need to put him down like this.
river wing
like"how do u die to meg", is pretty rude.
finite siren
i already gave the answer i died cause i got twin shot
i never die to meg ever, except that one time
pallid glade
he seems more inexperience at the game guys, no need to put him down like this.
yeah, it's why I'm trying to explain what I like and when I'll pick what, rather than just put him down.
cunning urchin
Twin Shot might be the best bow hammer period
No might. Is.
devout ether
I dont think Bow is your type of weapon if you think Twin Shot is bad my guy
finite siren
well bow is my favorite and the one weapon i have the highest heat on right now
devout ether
Yikes
finite siren
i don't get you
pallid glade
Cmon, reel it in, 4thQueen
cunning urchin
Can take a moment to get used to Twin Shots range. Nothing to be ashamed of.
pallid glade
You could probably get much faster times and higher dps if you learned to adapt to Twin Shot and used your casts more effectively, VCosmoz
But hey, if it works for you, nice.
river wing
i mean.. you guys are too good at the game. try to see things from a newer player pov. Like doing a longer run where you kite heavily when something like sniper shot can be easier than twinshot's lower range.
finite siren
might try twin shot another time but honestly it's easily the one upgrade I hate
devout ether
Twin Shot isnt even that much lower range
cunning urchin
Serrated Point is amazing for DPS on spear, but I died a lot to Hades before I got used to handling the dash in that fight.
devout ether
Lower dash distance isnt quite the same, I'd say
cunning urchin
Twin Shot can be similar in some ways, especially when you're still learning boss fights.
river wing
the point isn't about dash distance
the point is about learning/getting used to things.
devout ether
Maybe I'm too accustomed to going full unga bunga with Rama
pallid glade
Almost certainly 😂
cunning urchin
I don't know what point you're trying to make. It sounds an awful lot like "don't play bow if you're bad with Twin Shot," which isn't quite the right energy for this channel.
devout ether
Not quite that, but rather "understanding the power of twin shot is part of getting good at bow"
stone harbor
I very rarely pick twin shot, it is not like you ever have to pick it if you don't want to
devout ether
I very rarely pick twin shot, it is not like you ever have to pick it if you don...
I too sometimes play Chiron
stone harbor
true
pallid glade
That is a better point to make, 4thQueen - but yeah, you didn't quite come across like that before.
devout ether
I am quite abrasive with my hot opinions, this is true
cunning urchin
Mastering Twin Shot definitely increases clear speed a lot. It very literally doubles your DPS on Zag bow and comes close to that on Rama.
But it also requires you to play in a more dangerous range.
cunning urchin
Yes, because some of your damage comes from your Special.
river wing
ah, i see what you mean
devout ether
It also gives you two procs for crit, which goes a loooong way
turbid needle
https://youtu.be/kLiWxQWk3iE the content here was great, but wish it was in written form instead of Halien's super slow delivery
river wing
is that how it works? Don't all crit if one crit?
devout ether
Triple shot is technically more damage, but a bit harder to use.
river wing
idk how it works.
turbid needle
I'm not point blank enough to shotgun triple shot most of the time, except for hydra and minotaur
pallid glade
Triple shot is technically more damage, but a bit harder to use.
yeah, that one I still have to master.
devout ether
Just gotta get up in dat ass
rotund ether
ares on special for aspect of chaos gg?
devout ether
Ares on special is a bit better for bosses I guess, as long as you get the stacking
river wing
Chaos D: i always found it really awkward on bosses
rotund ether
i did on run with dio on dash ares on special and afro on attack
stack dmg was crazy
icy kernel
someone give me any reason to use a sword build that isn't Excalibur + Artemis
rotund ether
big nemesis crit :/
dry ember
someone give me any reason to use a sword build that isn't Excalibur + Artemis
Double Edge Hunter Dash Deadly Strike Nemesis
dry ember
There is no but wise guy https://clips.twitch.tv/HedonisticGiftedPanGrammarKing
river wing
poseidon pew pew pew?
rare kindle
Poseidon sword artemis
icy kernel
Okay I'm hearing these arguments and they're all good and I'd listen to them if I had any titan's blood left to upgrade the other aspects
dry ember
imagine being blood poor 😤
icy kernel
I'm only on Heat 10 and used most of it to upgrade the hidden aspects because :c
river wing
are you trading every death/clear?
dry ember
yeah im kd of course. take your time
river wing
The limited time offer often gives good stuff
dry ember
arthur is great anyhow
rare kindle
Try looking for the 15 key = 1 titan blood trade
river wing
yea the gem/key/nectar to ambrosia/diamon/blood is good
10 gem to 1 nectar is good too
pallid glade
heh, I notice that Haelian in his vids just assumes Infernal Blood and doesn't even mention Stygian for bow or shield
cunning urchin
Yeah, haelian almost always uses Infernal Soul.
It's pretty common for top players to just main either. But there are some who switch more willingly for different builds.
pine flax
For encounters with a lot of enemies at once, how do you deal with it with chiron bow?
Chiron seems like it sucks at higher heats?
pine flax
I'm only at heat 11 but I was thinking of how high you can carry Chiron. I guess 32 is like the bar I use for 'high' heat? Since that's what other people call high heat lol
icy kernel
Chiron is v good
devout ether
Chiron seems like it sucks at higher heats?
Chiron focuses on single target damage, that's the entire point of the weapon. Learning to build around it in order to still deal with mobs is crucial
Mostly, try to complement your damage with a Cast or Call, and dont be afraid to just dash around and use your attack
pine flax
Yeee Idk how to do that. Other than kinda angling myself so my special hits more than my targeted enemy
devout ether
I didnt mention using the special though
pine flax
Yee ik. I'm saying I was approaching it wrong by not really focusing on cast/call
devout ether
You can also just.... use the special without a target. In which case it's just like Zag bow, but with one fewer arrow
pine flax
My last Chiron build had hunting blades though which helped a ton actually
Oof bow special is...something else lol
devout ether
It has a very clear use and purpose, which is precisely what you seem to have trouble with 🤷♂️
It's not great by any means, but it's either that or get good with dash-attacking in and out of mobs
regal rune
i almost beat hades with a unaspected spear and having only unlocked half of the mirror. he was like 25% of his second phase. so mad
pine flax
It's not great by any means, but it's either that or get good with dash-attackin...
I think this is my issue. I need to dash attack much more with the bow
devout ether
This is the #1 trick to actually get good with bow. Never attack; only dash attack
opal lodge
i sometimes standing attack if im just shotgunning hera casts
devout ether
Practice on Skelly until it's the only thing you do
opal lodge
but yeah 99% dash attacks
pine flax
Still getting used to aiming with dash attacking bow cause of the faster charge time/moving
devout ether
i sometimes standing attack if im just shotgunning hera casts
It's easier to tell a newbie to only do dash attacks, and then once they're good and comfortable with bow they'll find the few moments it's okay to just attack on their own. But yeah, those moments are "almost never"
opal lodge
thats fair
carry on lol
i was just mentioning it because its really the only case that shows up in my mind?
dont really have any others outside of maybe flurry shot zag bow
fleet pollen
Does sctinitteling feast and ice wine stack
devout ether
Yes, you can have both.
acoustic gust
Hi guys. I have about 70 hours on hades anbd i still struggle to find rush kick for the fists (weapon upgrade) ive searched all over internet and cant find anything helpful, hope somebody here knows something
dry ember
it's just RNG. pick up every hammer you can find, really
Incompatible with Aspect of Talos
Incompatible with Flying Cutter or Kinetic Launcher
Also there are restrictions.
If you are hunting for Rush Kick, do not pick the above up, obviously.
random hull
Rush Kick was my very last Hammer too, for that very reason. But even after I realized that, I still had to do several runs until it came up finally.
potent granite
Lucifer with hades + hades stack and support fire had to be my most easiest playthrough
acoustic gust
ill give it a try thanks guys!
thick valve
what keepsakes do u guys usually go for with sword hidden aspect?
dry ember
I like the usual really
Arte -> Aprho/Athena -> Acorn -> Acorn
thick valve
so its not usual to run pom blossom?
opal lodge
pom blossom doesnt really do much in elysium/styx and it's not worth giving it up for a god keepsake in tartarus
thick valve
u mean elysium/asphodel?
opal lodge
asphodel is just far too short as well even if you get your build together
no i mean elysium/styx
thick valve
ok
opal lodge
usually you should have enough poms in your primary boons
by styx at the very latest
pom blossom there also is very unlikely to hit the boon you actually want it to hit
sonic mural
pom blossom is meh its literally just a singular pom
purse provides a lot more value than it
thick valve
well if u use it from asphodel and up its more like 10 poms if u do all teh gates in styx
sonic mural
dont think the damage increase is worth it to not have acorn
thick valve
but why not use it in asphodel and elysium but not in styx?
thick valve
and if u dont feel like you need acorn for styx?
opal lodge
bone hourglass/skull earring both better options
thick valve
well thanks for the insight guys its much appreciated ^^
opaque hare
any meta builds similar to the no boons strat
i just cleared a run with hoarded slash and shattered shackle, had a blast
magic stone
I just did the exact same earlier-
And it was a heck load of fun it was nice doing it after not playing the game in 2 weeks
It’s good because you can sell all your attack boons and such
finite siren
yo just unlocked Gilgamesh aspect, i have no clue how good or bad it is but it's so fun to see Zagreus swing his claws like a maniac
almost therapeutic
pine flax
when/why do people use acorn?
half light
when strugglin with elysium boss and the endboss, it's better health-wise than collar and skelly's tooth when maxed
half light
do you get stunned with patty's spear? i never looked into that 🤔
vital bay
Is quick reload or auto reload (heroic) really as op with greater recall as it seems in theory?
assuming you had a good cast boon of course
grim swan
any good builds for the spear? I feel like it kinda sucks
(only done like 30 runs, so idk)
rigid imp
Aspect of Hades, Ares Doom on spin attack -> 150% damage boost plus doom
Aphro on special, dual boon it up
half light
the spin attack is really the best attack with spear if you dont get the dash attack boons and upgrades
since you can actually also fire it when dashing
solid cairn
achilles
turbid needle
I like demeter on spear attack
solid cairn
plus any cast
turbid needle
Hades aspect is the best spear aspect if you want to use the spear like a spear
solid cairn
I think guan yu is better
turbid needle
else just cast with achilles or special with GY
rigid imp
^
solid cairn
oh
turbid needle
do not touch zag spear. let it rot in the aspect menu
rigid imp
hard same
vital bay
any good builds for the spear? I feel like it kinda sucks
Aspect of Zagreus Exploding Launcher with any high damage special boon (prefer Demeter) better if u can get chaos bonus for special and literally never use normal attack if you want I can send you some screenshots of wins with it so you can get a better idea
turbid needle
gy special is different
solid cairn
honestly might as well go guan yu if you want a special build
rigid imp
GY Athena spin attack is nuts
turbid needle
I wouldn't take ares on Hades aspect bc the spin attack status increases attack/special damage
not sure if it affects doom
solid cairn
it is not global damage
rigid imp
Damage boosts are all additive, so it doesn't matter
turbid needle
zag spear relies hard on you getting explosive launcher
otherwise its just
miserable
solid cairn
even with explosive launcher it's not even that good
vital bay
Yes but once you get explosive launcher its free win
turbid needle
but you arent guaranteed explosive launcher
solid cairn
Yes but once you get explosive launcher its free win
not necessarily
vital bay
I have like tons of win with it
solid cairn
at high heat it's not even that good
vital bay
what is high
turbid needle
40+
grim swan
oooo, will look into it @vital bay thank u
rigid imp
GY Spin attack: Divine Strike + Deadly Reversal + Support Fire = GG
pallid glade
Is quick reload or auto reload (heroic) really as op with greater recall as it s...
I've never gotten the combo, sadly, so I don't know. I suspect it is pretty good or at least viable and good fun.
turbid needle
I wouldnt wish zag spear on my worst enemy
solid cairn
I wouldnt wish zag spear on my worst enemy
true
finite siren
is zag malphon any good
turbid needle
dodge meme
vital bay
I think Athena dash +aphrodite call really carried my early wins @grim swan with any build/wep tbh
turbid needle
it's pretty solid aspect but demeter is like a straight upgrade to it
finite siren
yeah thought as much
turbid needle
zag shield is the best zag aspect
solid cairn
bow
grim swan
athena dash seems really broken, no?
solid cairn
bow is way better in my opinion
turbid needle
bow is 2nd
pallid glade
Zag Malphon is good for learning malphon, imo, since it gives it a bit of extra survivability
vital bay
Yes its mega good @grim swan
solid cairn
athena dash seems really broken, no?
lmao he already knows
turbid needle
pulverizing blow zag shield is stupid
but it isn't completely reliant on that hammer
unlike another zag aspect
solid cairn
bow is kind of the same with twin shot?
turbid needle
bow is completely fine w/o twin shot
potent granite
I'm really liking lucifer with eternal chamber
turbid needle
twin shot is indubitably the best hammer for it though
weak violet
Wouldnt Zag Bow beu considered a speedrun aspect?
solid cairn
kind of?
turbid needle
just use rama at that point
solid cairn
the world record for it is right above the 7 minute barrier
weak violet
Hm, cuz i kinda want to try it out
weak violet
Well if i were to use it at all, what kind of build would i look for?
solid cairn
crit
turbid needle
arty attack zag bow is fun
weak violet
Welp, imma just try it out with only EM4 and see how it goes
proven osprey
If you want to grind heat I would recommend not taking EM4
weak violet
I was eligible to do EM4, i just wanted to see how it would be with it
turbid needle
Which weapon can exploit athena attack or special the most?
cosmic hornet
spear and fist i think
turbid needle
hidden spear or any spear?
cosmic hornet
any spear
turbid needle
is it like a massive no u build?
turbid needle
who is "deadly"?
cosmic hornet
its less of a no u and more extra layer of safety
cunning urchin
Lady Artemis.
turbid needle
got it
civic barn
hmm....i'm finding myself drastically worse at dodging than i remember
and i'm not sure what the reason is; I've been playing regularly recently and I didn't change any parts so it shouldn't be a hardware issue
and if they changed the dodge frames i imagine it would have been in the patch notes, so it can't be that
pseudo stream
You might be used to Athena dash, which gives iframes during dash strikes
turbid needle
^
opal lodge
athena dash doesn't give any more i frames than any other dash
it just usually deflects attacks before they can reach zag's squishy bod
that other dashes do not
spiral tree
I just realized the enemy RNG vs dad is a problem
it isn't the green pots
or his spin to win attack
if you get the teleporting enemy it is so annoying
turbid needle
On EM4?
turbid needle
Yup, probably the worst part of the fight.
turbid needle
Wretched friggin' Sneak.
spiral tree
oh you hit me? let me teleport to nullify any status effects
also the crystal that spawns baby crystals is super annoying in EM4 too
pseudo stream
athena dash doesn't give any more i frames than any other dash
Afaik it makes your dash strikes get iframes as well
Normally as soon as you attack you lose your iframes, but the Athena shield lasts the same length
river wing
nah. you deflect, but you still don't get iframes