Stubborn Defiance
#h1-builds-and-combat
dry ember
balmy portal
oh we've moved to mirror traits
I said no, if I death defy 3 times already...
well, pray for the elesium story and refill
turbid needle
this was my 32 heat run https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/364243718477185035/782472772113661952/unknown.png
really was not that bad
primal hazel
Who cares a out sack luck
turbid needle
probably bc Eris lol
balmy portal
once I accepted EM4
balmy portal
instead of FO2
I used Hestia for it
constant dashing reloaded shots
pew pew pew
turbid needle
I picked what I thought would be easiest lol
primal hazel
I got js2
opal lodge
RI1 CP2 is harder than it needs to be
dry ember
turbid needle
Anyone has a link to good boon tier list? Or overall builds page? Looking for things to try out.
dry ember
My very first 32 heat clear
turbid needle
Zeus ftw
balmy portal
the only real stinker I've found is the demeter/aphro duo
turbid needle
idk if it's just me but I don't notice CP2
balmy portal
otherwise grab things and have fun
turbid needle
i like SS
primal hazel
Boon tier lists are senseless
dry ember
Anyone has a link to good boon tier list? Or overall builds page? Looking for th...
it's pinned in #h1-for-new-players
turbid needle
Crystal clarity slaps
dry ember
but if you want aspect specfic builds
opal lodge
cold embrace is good on achilles meme builds
turbid needle
Boon tier lists are senseless
I like them. They are really subjective, but still nice to read up on
dry ember
ask here, we don't have that ready
opal lodge
it's not really that theyre subjective
more that they change significantly depending on weapon
primal hazel
It's nice for fun
opal lodge
battle rage on zag sword? trash
turbid needle
Fair
primal hazel
But not for guidance
opal lodge
battle rage on hestia? godlike
dry ember
battle rage fists
opal lodge
weirdchamp
turbid needle
My go to build for high heat has always been regular shield with as much zeus as I can get my hands on
primal hazel
Bruh what
turbid needle
balmy portal
I appreciate how zeus shield works great with zeus π
turbid needle
well it should
primal hazel
My go to build for high heat has always been regular shield with as much zeus as...
Actual weird champ
turbid needle
How so?
dry ember
it might work, who knows
heavy sigil
Question as a whole for ||Hades|| would Lucky tooth lvl 2 or Acorn lvl 3 be better?
Heat 4 rn
opal lodge
thats not a bad idea
primal hazel
No
dry ember
How so?
I think mostly because people might consider this sub optimal. But if it works for you, great!
turbid needle
Have seen that people take Ares doom on special, but idk, i really like bolts for some reason
primal hazel
He said zag
dry ember
Regular Shield, assume Zag?
turbid needle
Yes, zag
primal hazel
Question as a whole for ||Hades|| would Lucky tooth lvl 2 or Acorn lvl 3 be bett...
Always acorn
But only in styx or maybe even elysium at high heat
opal lodge
tbh if we're being technical here artemis attack is the only thing thats "optimal" for zag shield
turbid needle
big base dmg
dry ember
Just makin sure
Honestly I think a dash strike build with Hunter Dash Deadly Strike Pulverizing Blow would be optimal
damn wrong reply
mean to anubiss, not you aura π
turbid needle
And second build usually Rail with Artemis support fire. Get max ammo capacity and deadalus faster fire upgrade and its pretty fun
opal lodge
the "speedrun" build is arty attack and passion dash i think
with mino rush charged shot
but that's not really too practical for regular gameplay
turbid needle
Honestly I think a dash strike build with Hunter Dash Deadly Strike Pulverizing ...
Mostly using Shield for special. Dont like getting into enemy faces on high heat
dry ember
fair enough.
turbid needle
Since I usually take max hard labor
dry ember
though if you use chaos shield, that zeus build will be much better imo
opal lodge
^
turbid needle
I used to run max HL with max JS, but realised its not a good combo
turbid needle
Tbh never gotten too much time to charge up bull rush, but I guess taking off JS should help that
32heat
Now If youd add forced overtime, that would be not good
opal lodge
i think FO1 is pretty easy to adjust to
FO2 makes BP speeder enemies quite insane
190% speed is too much
turbid needle
BP?
opal lodge
benefits package
turbid needle
I once tried max FO and the chariots in Elysium were too much
primal hazel
Well didn't get patrocleus :|
turbid needle
ah
dry ember
British Petroleum
turbid needle
Does FO also apply on bosses?
opal lodge
yes
same thing with HL/CP
if youre trying to fight true super dad you do HL5/FO2/EM4/HS/CP2
turbid needle
if youre trying to fight true super dad you do HL5/FO2/EM4/HS/CP2
Yea, was considering that
turbid needle
Been trying out AP , but it makes me mad how every time to best rarity boons are locked out
opal lodge
you kind of get evaporated by any hits in that fight so it's exhilarating in a way
dry ember
slap td on top
turbid needle
basically if u mess up you're losing a DD lmfao
dry ember
so you cant cheese
turbid needle
What kind of cheese is even available here? Max kiting?
opal lodge
yeah
turbid needle
Saw a guy yesterday with 51min Stygian run
opal lodge
stubborn roots + max kiting probably
dry ember
yeah, or shield block
primal hazel
Not getting hit is the best cheese
dry ember
big if true
turbid needle
shield block + vengeful mood
dry ember
I have seen my friends or youtube vids where people play video games in general, play hide and seek for an eternity
turbid needle
5 is a bit too tight. Make me have a muffin top
dry ember
this encourages a much different playstyle
turbid needle
my friend doesnt have a fastest time under 25 minutes for any weapon
and he has the same amount of clears as me
how many clears
?
dry ember
my friends don't play this game
turbid needle
55ish
dry ember
T.T
half light
some are speedy some are not
balmy portal
it's really easy to waste time after you clear a room
I wish the timer would stop once combat ended
half light
FoxHope you just dont have enough friends
turbid needle
lol I just spam E
half light
lets be friends?
turbid needle
Oh lol. Today just hit 188
dry ember
lets be friends?
im good thanks
turbid needle
But most of clears were durring beta
proven osprey
oof
half light
im good thanks
okidoki
dry ember
just kidding π
primal hazel
Fox only needs data
dry ember
love ya
fleet pollen
Does chaos count as boonless
half light
π
primal hazel
You should've said: "everything is fine"
proven osprey
dry ember
ill be there for the Tuesday night date, third wheeling
turbid needle
Also did first 32 heat before Styx was released. Unlocked the statue, afterwards they locked it again 1.1
primal hazel
Does chaos count as boonless
There is no boonless run
Cause you can't avoid getting boons
Third wheel best wheel
half light
you can sell them if you only get sellables and fated dice to change the selling pool?
turbid needle
just don't use the boons u get
half light
ah i typed before seeing the bastion babe
fleet pollen
Do the boons from chaos take away the shackle damage up
primal hazel
Soo I'm in styx and got 32 life
On my 32 heat run
Is that a sign
primal hazel
Do the boons from chaos take away the shackle damage up
Shackle only affects core boons
fleet pollen
Awesome
fleet pollen
Chaos it is then
primal hazel
If they are empty
Shackle says yes
If you're just going shackle you don't need to go boonless
half light
yes
turbid needle
I wonder if Dad says the boonless line if u have chaos boons
primal hazel
Just avoid the core boons you want boosted
verbal marsh
fleet pollen
Okay I had a 79% damage up, on my first shackle run
turbid needle
I actually laughed when he said not to tell anyone at the house when I beat him
he said the same thing when I flawlessed him
dull oriole
I have a rather noob question but does the Daedalus hammer "Massive spin" works with the last aspect of Varatha ?
turbid needle
Yes.
dull oriole
Thanks π
balmy portal
massive spin + fast charge is an amazing combo on that weapon imo π
dull oriole
That's exactly what I got π
Now all that's left is not to get beaten all in one sweep and that should be good for this run.
dull oriole
Good call. I tend to use Myrmidon Bracer a lot but I haven't upgraded the spearpoint yet.
balmy portal
even at base it works for it
like getting caught in Hades' combo, base spear will reduce that to just the first hit
then you gotta get away for a bit or make sure you at least don't get caught out, so it can recharge π
relying on healing is usually death, though
trying to "play safe" just gets me killed
proven osprey
I can't get to like spearpoint on GY tho
balmy portal
GY is where I like spearpoint best...
proven osprey
interesting
balmy portal
because my fear there is accidentally eating multiple hits in a row
I'm aware that in general acorn is much more +life
but when my life pool is tiny, having an extra buffer won't prevent just exploding if I catch a bad combo π
dull oriole
Victory βοΈ
dry shuttle
any recommendations on building Hades Spear?
dry ember
You can go Serrated Edge Hunter Dash Deadly Strike
Alternatively Explosive Launcher Deadly Flourish also work
turbid needle
quick spin for the win
dry ember
Hades Spear is one of those aspect that you play around the hammer you are given
rare kindle
I thought you wanted to use the spin attack
So I got the hammer that charges it up faster
proven osprey
not needed tbh
cobalt shell
what is the best aspect to go first
turbid needle
u have A laser
so, what's better cast build, poisiden sword or beowulf shield, or the bow?
I just saw a video with beowulf and ares blade rifts, which looked cool
opal lodge
beowulf is amazing
but i am biased
poseidon sword is fun too
so is hera
but beo you will see bigger numbers
dull oriole
Mmh, I'm trying to make a Zeus run and am offered a hammer or a Zeus boon in a mini boss chamber. It's the first time I'm hesitating between a hammer and anything else.
Your thoughts ?
balmy portal
did the patch update targeting for festive fog?
trippy shot, I guess
it seems like it's targeting Hades less than it used to π
opal lodge
Mmh, I'm trying to make a Zeus run and am offered a hammer or a Zeus boon in a m...
always take a boon over hammer
the hammer will show up again
if the boon is something you want *
dull oriole
I ended up doing that. Though I could always buy it at a store maybe. Even better if it shows up on its own in a room.
opal lodge
it's very rare that you'll end with 1 hammer unless you actively avoid hammers
turbid needle
people actually like Hera?
pseudo stream
question about basic gameplay, largely withspear but also sword - is it just me or is spamming dash strikes usually higher dps than actually using the weapon combos?
opal lodge
that's true for sword
and also for bow
funnily enough spear standing attack is quite good
you dash attack with serrated point though
pseudo stream
weeeeird
dull oriole
That's something I noticed immediately when I started playing: The game is very generous in letting you cancel an attack into another one or in a dash. Thus, not surprising it's sometimes more effective to spam the dash attack.
opal lodge
sword and bow you basically ONLY dash attack and never standing attack
shield it depends on the aspect
gentle bobcat
wait, you should only dash attack with bow? it seems like speedrunners do standing attack
balmy portal
standing attack hits harder, if you can draw while enemies are spawning
dash shot visibly draws faster, but does look just like a regular shot
sage carbon
Yea, reduced dmg
balmy portal
it's much more obvious with the fourth aspect because it has a slower draw
gentle bobcat
ohh I didn't realize it looks like a regular shot, that explains things
silver sky
I'm looking around the subreddit and this chat history for an arthur build. Any ideas other than faster attack and getting as many artemis crits as possible?
weak violet
Hm, idk
Usually i get ideas from the victory boasting channel, maybe thatβll help?
balmy portal
I really like athena on arthur attacks
the sweep is so wide it does a good job keeping you safe from most projectiles, even as slow as it is
turbid needle
shadow slash is fantastic on arthur
cosmic hornet
my arthur build is usually just heartrend and fishing for exposed
turbid needle
oh I never considered heart rend on arthur
actually I have
it seems kinda annoying to apply weak w arthur
turbid needle
if you get the +weak duration boon it might be better
cosmic hornet
or well
go balls and pick aphro dash
not for me though
i need my deflect
turbid needle
oh I forgot that existed
silver sky
ooo heart rend sounds good on this
turbid needle
heart rend nem is my favorite
silver sky
Why exactly is it annoying to put weak on arthur?
cosmic hornet
the special is slow
cosmic hornet
if you go heartrend you want arte on attack
silver sky
they can both be attack
cosmic hornet
yeah the other option is dash
but athena monopolizes dash lol
for heartrend to work you need to actually crit
with aphro on attack your crit probably comes from pp which is... 4% at best
silver sky
oo deadly reversal looks even better
After you Deflect, briefly gain +20% chance to deal Critical damage.
thats an artemis + athena
sage carbon
Does the weak effect happen I mean
silver sky
3rd attack dash? I have no idea what you're saying lol
cosmic hornet
you need to hit the dash though
sage carbon
You can dash while 3rd attack chargea
cosmic hornet
which isnt the easiest thing in the world considering arthurβs range
weak violet
Yo what does aura damage reduction mean on Arthur?
silver sky
realizing I've never once used nemesis. Think I'll give that one a try instead
When an enemy is in the aura, the enemy does less damage
weak violet
Oh so special then
weak violet
Nice
silver sky
Also slows them ofc
weak violet
Well, i mean you can do athena special since it has quite the range then go for the heart rend with apro dash and arte attack
weak violet
Nice
sage carbon
Actually I'll try Athena attack, artemis special and aphro dash
weak violet
Yeah, that sounds good
Ill try my recommendation tho first
I also like how when you use the second attack and dash, you just glide around while your third attack is commanded
sly grail
does giving nectar to boon gods affect the stuff they give you because i've been giving mine to athena and atrimis for both deflect defense and crit
unkempt pagoda
no, unless you consider the keepsake such a thing
solid grail
Hi I was wondering, does the normal shield aspect bounce more than the chaos aspect? I know the chaos splits up but it seems the Zagreus aspect bounces more
left oak
So!! I hate Naegel's Board
It's so unbelievably slow, even with a Hermes attack buff, and getting the Dragon Rush to land properly was nightmarish
opal lodge
on beowulf your standard attack pattern is dash attack -> charge
pop your casts when you have them
left oak
tbh I was kinda just attacking and charging willy nilly
And admittedly I had Demeter on attack, which may not have been the best call there
opal lodge
yeah artemis on attack is what you want
pseudo stream
Who Beowulf is sooo strong
No Iβm thinking Gilgamesh, sorry. I love Beowulf, but itβs weird and takes 10% more damage and Iβm not sure why
empty quiver
Gilgamesh is probably my favorite aspect. Especially since it gets me my best clear times even on higher heat levels
stray olive
I've a question about the poseidon sword build... I've been using artemis for cast but I have a ton of trouble with crowd control. Bosses are easier but crowded rooms are harder. How do you guys deal with that?
opal lodge
play it like nemesis when your casts are down
dont play go fetch with your casts
just pick up bloodstones if theyre on the way to another enemy
stray olive
Haha I'm new to the game... How do you play nemesis π
cosmic hornet
you special and then dash attack x20 and then special
i tried a bit of ME gil just now
i feel like its better than ME dem
or is dem's special edges out in dps war
since its easier to apply ME to a crowd and pop it with gil
opal lodge
gilg is probably better *once you get ME
which is a pretty big caveat
since it takes like 4 boons to get full build
cosmic hornet
true
empty quiver
The best thing I can recommend for Gilgamesh is to take Ruthless Reflex. Gilg already gives you more dash charges, so getting that 50% damage and dodge chance is pretty easy if you keep autodashing.
opal lodge
yeah ruthless reflex is def the way
pseudo stream
Ruthless reflex actually seems kinda broken on Gilgamesh
native kestrel
I really hated Beowulf, it's so slow. Excalibur is my favorite legendary weapon
pseudo stream
Do people maim? Someone good said it was a waste, but I have fun with.m it sometimes
empty quiver
I think it just syncs well. It's not like getting 3000+ damage on a Crit with Artemexcalibur.
opal lodge
do it against enemies you can stunlock
ie not bosses/armored
you can sort of get away with doing it vs armored enemies if you have breaching cross/ME
but its a dangerous game
empty quiver
Yeah. Sometimes I will use maim on bosses but only when I know that I can tear through their health bar.
So the additional damage that I take doesn't really matter
opal lodge
i dont really ever do it with HL on vs bosses
you're asking for an ez trip back to the house of hades
just for like 25% additive damage
opal lodge
the highest ive ever done gilga is 32 heat so some of the stuff im saying might not be "objectively" correct
if you want to see someone good play it watch retrash do 52 heat lmao
empty quiver
It's certainly higher than I've done
rare kindle
I usually maim once, then go back to dash attacking
cobalt ibex
Any good Poseidon builds? I donβt use him much.
empty quiver
Sea Storm
rare kindle
The maim action is too slow for me to do it more than once without getting hit
opal lodge
poseidon sword or god?
cobalt ibex
God
empty quiver
Sea Storm Luci.
rare kindle
Yes, sea storm
empty quiver
AKA the Super Soaker of Death
cobalt ibex
What wep do I use for that
rare kindle
But now you need another poseidon core because tidal dash isn't a requirement anymore
empty quiver
Luci is a Rail aspect.
opal lodge
super soaker uses tempest strike
empty quiver
But Sea Storm is good on a lot of weapons
empty quiver
It is kind of a meme-y build but I like it
In terms of actually good weapons to use Sea Storm with... maybe Chaos Shield?
thorny dirge
tbh you don't really need sea storm to make poseidon-zeus work, the strong part of that build was always tidal dash+breaking wave+jolted
cobalt ibex
I donβt mind running meme builds just wanted to know what Poseidon is good with cause I usually avoid him
empty quiver
Poseidon is pretty good.
cosmic hornet
poseidon dash + zeus used to be the rail meta for speedrun
empty quiver
Splash Dash with Sea Storm, Breaking Wave and Jolted is pretty good as a boon combo
sonic mural
it still is the rail meta right?
thorny dirge
probably, like i said Sea Storm was not a significant part of the build
sonic mural
yah lol the prev wr picked hydraulic might over it
opal lodge
well previous WR is all high rolls and an ungodly number of resets
hydraulic might is better if and only if you get cluster rockets earlyish
me saying that is not to discount it
balmy portal
things spawning in still waste its time
I found it was mostly running out before I felt I'd gotten any real use out of it
thorny dirge
in the context of speedruns that's less of an issue because they run FO1-2
for rail FO2
balmy portal
yeah
I feel like FO2 should have been 30%, and an FO3 for 40%
it feels way scarier to go from FO1 to FO2 than from 0 to 1
cunning urchin
Greater Reflex for Gilgamesh. Those minidashes are not that great, and it somehow has longer dash recovery it feels like, so I'd rather have more of them.
hollow helm
anyone help me with properly building Zeus attack on Demeter? I'm somewhat confused on what you'd really want on it or if it's just better to stick to ME builds
opal lodge
zeus attack, artemis special
the idea is you stack more zeus to scale late game
and have a better early game than ME
opal lodge
yeah do god's pride
zeus's aid + billowing is already in your pool
dash i usually go blade dash or passion dash
passion dash preferred for me
tidal dash is really good but kinda weird to handle
works better on talos
hollow helm
I see, which hammers are a priority/avoided like the goddamn plague for it
I've done two runs of Kinetic Launcher already and it feels really good to use for me at least
hollow helm
aight
balmy portal
breaching cross is so good for ripping down armor
royal helm
Yea... FO has a cascading effect since it's a rate that's ... pretty gamechanging...
If a mob has an attack at 1s:
FO0: 1s, 2s, 3s
FO1: .8s, 1.6s, 2.4s
FO2: .6s, 1.2s, 1.8s
It really makes the timings much, much tighter
weak violet
Me trying to remember what build i should use for Beowulf since im running out of ideas
Cuz im thinking on using dio cast, aphro/demeter attack, and whatever special works best to try and make a privileged status
Maybe a Zeus or ares special
cosmic hornet
your best bet would be chill on special if you're going for PS
ares only lasts 1s, and zeus you need to actually get the jolted boon
weak violet
Yeah, i was thinking on that zeus part
cosmic hornet
aphro cast beo is as free as PS gets, i really recommend trying that out
opal lodge
if you want to do a PS build aphro cast beo is the way to go
but i kinda hate PS no matter what so
weak violet
Hm
opal lodge
dio cast beo you just need too many gods to fit in 2 different statuses
since you're ideally looking for mirage shot
cosmic hornet
holdup
mirage shot works for beo?
weak violet
Isnt mirage shot arte+poseidon?
cosmic hornet
yeah
opal lodge
mirage shot is pretty much the biggest duo for beowulf
lets you one shot almost anything in elysium
also lets you do this
weak violet
Nice
Welp imma that to my notes
Since i literally have a channel on my server specifically for hades
opal lodge
might not be as impressive as some of the other number screenshot here but that's because it broke the damage threshold for hades
cosmic hornet
but its a three god combo huh
late hazel
I really wish Hades had a feature that let me revisit past builds in a training session just to play around with. I love looking at the records to see my progression with different builds, but for some reason I wish there were a way to just pop in and physically see what did and didn't work out for me on a past build without affecting my progression in the actual game.
deep salmon
solid grail
Probably a silly question but I like the idea of making a Ares blade rift build and I was wondering which weapons/aspects work well alongside a blade rift build?
arctic osprey
I'd say it doesn't matter that much. Just don't pick the aspects that load casts into the weapon.
Other than that, depends on your play style. You can go with a bow, for example, and do a ranged build.
cosmic hornet
top weapon for blade rift is probably achilles spear
if youβre going blade rift you want the artemis duo
tawny meadow
Achilles spear is definitely the best weapon for it, but I prefer Zeus shield for another beyblade
Eris is definetly a good choice too, just have to remember to keep the buff up
arctic osprey
Artemis duo is great, agreed
You can also do a triple blade rift build - cast + dash + call
opal lodge
gilga with blade dash is hecka fun
literally just naruto run around enemies and watch them die
languid dagger
guys, what are the strongest Hera builds and what kind of boons I should be looking for with this aspect first and foremost? Should I take Stygian Soul with it? Does casting speed from Hermes affect it?
arctic osprey
I do like Stygian Soul more with Hera, but you really need to get some more bloodstones. For cast - the best ones IMO are Dionysus and Aphrodite
royal helm
I still like Infernal Soul more... but I like True Shot for boss killing, Flood Shot for room clearing...
Flurry Cast? I'm not sure on that one
If anything, it only saves you a tiny, tiny amount of time loading it
Because loading doesn't disrupt any animations
If you do Dio cast (Trippy shot) then yeah, definitely do Stygian Soul
My big issue with Stygian Soul is that you pigeon hole your Chaos gates and gods (to try to get +cast stones)
However, you do open up Bad News, the Hermes Legendary
languid dagger
How does this legendary work, btw, I had it for my Poseidon builds
royal helm
I tend to believe you push more damage just getting a hold of Exit Wounds and the Hermes drop rate, though. And this is far more consistent
languid dagger
is it only for first impact?
royal helm
Yea
If they have no cast stone stuck in them, +50% damage
Trippy Shot cannot even stick in them, though, so it should benefit every cast
languid dagger
but for the duration of the fight or only first tick of damage?
cuz description is not very clear to me
royal helm
I believe it should be any cast that they do not have a cast stone stuck inside of them
languid dagger
what about duo casts for Hera, do they work on it?
royal helm
Yeah, someone has a screenshot of a massive Blizzard Shot Hera that did like ... 6-7k+
And Mirage Shot should also work with it
slate obsidian
i haven't played pretty much any shield, but how is minotaur rush on beowulf?
royal helm
You only get 10 more base damage on a bull rush... so 50 more damage in the end on a power rush
I guess the AOE is wider on load?
slate obsidian
the other 2 hammer choices are explosive return and dread flight
man i wish i got an attack hammer
royal helm
Explosive Return is kind of nice, if you ask me
slate obsidian
i do have empowering flight already
royal helm
Mainly because you can cheese a lot of rooms with it... doing melee range specials or throwing your shield into columns
But Beo's special animation is ... significantly slower than the other shields
cosmic hornet
i wouldnt recommend minotaur rush on beo
you want to rush ASAP
slate obsidian
yeah, i noticed that slow beo special real quick when i tried to play it like chaos
royal helm
You get a ton more base on Beo(45) instead of 15
But it feels like its animation is .. half as fast
slate obsidian
i wouldnt recommend minotaur rush on beo
you want to rush ASAP
yeah, that's what i thought, "probably works like power shot, but i wanna do charge as fast as possible, so why charge at all?"
river wing
Once you get charged flight...
royal helm
Apparently, Mino Rush + Charged Shot is a good hammer combo, not got it myself personally
cunning urchin
Late Charged Flight is kinda weak since you won't have focused poms on your Special.
river wing
Hmmm
river wing
Still good tho 
cosmic hornet
honestly that hammer looks like a dud 
explosive return is probably the best but only because it actually does something and not make you wait for your shield
river wing
On beo tho.
royal helm
It's a worse Charged Skewer tbh.
ehh... not sure that's being completely fair
river wing
I love explosive return. Its super strong
royal helm
It gets scaled by boons and procs boons... so yeah, it's quite nice/strong
river wing
On beo it's kinda meh tho
royal helm
Yeah, it doesn't get as much value as the other shields, but it's still sometimes worth picking
proven osprey
You don't build around it that's what she meant
GY special is stronger too
Pierces and nice fireworks sound
wooden gyro
any fist build recommended ?
cunning urchin
Divine Strike or Dash or both.
If you take Divine Strike, Deadly Flourish or True Shot for Deadly Reversal and Support Fire.
If you don't take Divine Strike, take Curse of Agony or Lightning Strike.
wooden gyro
ty ty
so i can start with athena keepsake
im playing the talos aspect
so poseidon on special i guess will be good thing
cunning urchin
so poseidon on special i guess will be good thing
Tempest Flourish on Talos is kind of a meme, unfortunately. But for a Talos-specific build, you can do Flood Shot and go for Mirage Shot and/or Blizzard Shot. That's a really strong combo.
But starting with the Owl Pendant is good on all Malphon aspects. It just works.
turbid needle
In all honesty whatever weapon or aspect I have I usually go for divine dash and strike, just because it's super convenient? I'm usually on the spear aspect of hades though.
cunning urchin
I don't take Divine Strike on everything, but yup lol. https://imgur.com/a/sfAHMqy
cosmic hornet
huh
is heartbreak strike more consistent than artemis
tidal thorn
heartbreak strike with what weapon
ashen abyss
is it just me being bad at other weapons or is shield significantly easier
you just bull rush constantly and try and get the upgrade that gives it 500% damage, with it even the final boss seems easy since you dash out of every attack (i tried the one that makes you shoot an arrow instead of dashing and it made it harder since you have to dash to dodge the damage instead)
i only just beat the boss for the first time, got the pact of punishment unlocked and went and beat them again
tidal thorn
I like all the weapons except adamant rail, I can't use it well at all
my best time is on shield but I find sword easier
cunning urchin
Depends a lot on the pacts you like to take, skill level, etc.
If it's the easiest for you, then it's the easiest for you.
cosmic hornet
is that for AP?
cunning urchin
Is what for AP?
tidal thorn
divine dash is probably too good
tidal thorn
even having it deal 0 damage is still too good
cosmic hornet
with the exposed boon it becomes even gooder
cunning urchin
Heartbreak Strike is more consistent when you can't rely on t2 crit boons etc.
Weak is also great, and she has amazing Duo Boons.
ashen abyss
it just seems easier since you have your shield up 90% of the time so you take no damage and still deal enough damage without sacrificing safety
cunning urchin
She's also just my favorite goddess, so I take the Eternal Rose in like 99% of my runs at this point lol.
tidal thorn
I like aphrodite legendary
charm 15% of the time on weak is very very powerful
I find it one of the easiest legendaries to get as well
cunning urchin
m more interested in finding optimal strategies that start with the Eternal Rose than in finding optimal strategies overall lol.
tidal thorn
I like shattered shackles builds
cunning urchin
I used Shackle for boonless mirrorless 32 Heat. Was fun. Need a change of pace from those kinds of runs, though.
tidal thorn
don't even need to do boonless for shackles to be good
get a good hammer for attack, then don't pick any boons for attack
rail with cluster rocket and shackles is nutty
cunning urchin
@ashen abyss shield has generally lower DPS than other weapons, so it becomes more difficult when you use Tight Deadline at rank 3, especially. That's when you can't just play it safe with it.
tidal thorn
best shield is beowulf
cunning urchin
Not at high heat.
cunning urchin
I don't know about that. I think Zag and Zeus might be the best for high heats.
tidal thorn
most fun
cunning urchin
32 Beowulf is still fine. m talking more 40+ is where it falls off.
tidal thorn
40+ has only a few viable builds though
cunning urchin
Nah, that's not quite true.
I mean 50+ builds are pretty much whatever scraps you happen to get. People usually finish with like 4 boons maybe.
tidal thorn
guan yu at high heat is pretty much unplayable
cunning urchin
Erm. I don't quite agree with that lol.
tidal thorn
if you're speedrunner level maybe you can do it
but I'm not speedrunner level
guan yu is brutal
cunning urchin
I don't do speedruns. I just do high heat.
Speedrunning with Guan Yu is quite different from high heat, anyway.
stray olive
You guys have any thoughts on a Poseidon sword build? I tried one with artemis and it was great for single enemies and bosses but terrible for crowd control
Am I playing it wrong or should I take different boons?
proven osprey
Artemis can work for sure but room clear won't be that good indeed
You could try electric shot
Exit wounds is amazing as you probably know
languid dagger
@stray olive any duo cast rips with Poseidon: Demeter + Artemis, Ares + Artemis, Athena + Zeus
It's just it might be awkward to play before you get your duo
also your performance depends a lot on + casts from chaos or Artemis herself
and you might just not get them
icy kernel
Oh snap do I go rolling, heavy, or concentrated knuckle?
stray olive
@languid dagger ah thanks man
proven osprey
solid cairn
32 Beowulf is still fine. m talking more 40+ is where it falls off.
I did 45 not much issue
any more than that is really pushing it
cunning urchin
Yeah, that's what I mean. It hits a roadblock eventually.
Did you submit that to the leaderboard btw?
solid cairn
wasn't recorded
cunning urchin
Like my 46 today. 
solid cairn
my bow still isn't 32
rama feels clunky to me
and this is someone who loves arthur
cunning urchin
Coronacht took me a while to be good with.
I still have a lot of growth potential with Rama. I don't power-shoot consistently yet, so my DPS is much lower than it could be.
And I still thought 46 was pretty easy.
solid cairn
Idk I just struggle getting power shots in
And when an enemy is in my face itβs annoying
pallid glade
Yeah, but the power shots are actually pretty optional, nice as they are.
Particularly Rama gets a lot of damage done even without them. Twin Shot really helps
solid cairn
I know
icy glade
hello, new here. is dmg reduction additive or multiplicative (can positive outlook + weak + achilles keepsake so for massive DR)?
unkempt pagoda
multiplicative iirc
proven osprey
mutliplicative boyo
icy glade
dang, so my tank idea wont be so good hahaha. thanks!
proven osprey
Nah it works
solid cairn
I seriously canβt use rama to save my life lmao
cunning urchin
It's actually good to stack DR because you get more eHP per point of DR the more DR you already have.
And Dodge is additive for even more potential eHP. You can even get 100% Dodge chance with Second Wind.
icy glade
ooooh. so i can go zag fists + achilles keepsake + aphro + another god for max defense?
pallid glade
I seriously canβt use rama to save my life lmao
I struggle with the Spear instead^^
cunning urchin
You should throw Abyssal Blood in there and maybe try out Ruthless Reflex.
solid cairn
Me?
icy glade
You should throw Abyssal Blood in there and maybe try out Ruthless Reflex.
interesting. ill try that. thanks!
solid cairn
I think triple shot is better than twin on rama
cunning urchin
I like Twin Shot more. It just reduces boss HP by half lol.
cunning urchin
Yeah but it's hard to do consistently on bosses. I think Theseus you actually can't shotgun, for example.
And vs the Furies or Lernie, you maybe don't want to be that close.
pallid glade
Agreed.
Twin Shot + Point Blank is a pretty good combo, imo
you can frequently get close enough against bosses to still count as close range
even when triple wouldn't work
Sniper Shot, meanwhile, seems too long-ranged to be ever worth it - charging that long is just too slow on Rama, I think.
cunning urchin
I do think you should always go with what works best for you, though. Doesn't really matter if somebody else is better with Twin Shot if Triple Shot works better for you.
pallid glade
Right, of course.
I'm just saying that I think Twin Shot + Point Blank seems to me to be a fairly consistent and easy to activate combo that gets you a lot of damage
Twin Explosive is also nice, but has been very slow ime
cunning urchin
Yeah, but getting two specific hammers is just RNG anyway.
pallid glade
For sure! But it's why I tend to pick either of those two up and hope for the other one to drop π
cunning urchin
I never pick one hammer hoping for something else later. I just pick whatever is best in the moment.
pallid glade
Since I think both of them are pretty good anyway, it's not like I need both
But I do think that picking one hammer that combos well with other hammers is better than a hammer that doesn't, all else being equal.
cunning urchin
At high heat, you gotta actually make it to the second hammer.
cobalt ibex
whats a good cast build and what aspect is best for it
turbid needle
Stygian Soul, Electric Shot, Achilles.
solid cairn
Stygian electric why
turbid needle
Electric Shot has a mind of its own and with Achilles gives the highest damage bonus.
pallid glade
I enjoy my "Haven't the foggiest" build, though it's probably more a meme.
Hera bow with Trippy Flare, Scintillating Feast, Frozen Vortex: Deals a ton of damage, smites them with lightning and freezes them.
(oh and pick up anything that improves the Festive Fog, basically.)
icy kernel
... how does Piercing Volley work with Chiron? >_>
finite socket
Basically
You know some enemies with shields?
Aka Exalted Greatshields?
It makes the shots unblockable for them outside the bonus armor damage
pallid glade
I just did Beowulf with Trippy Flare lvl10, Scintillating Feast and an extra bloodstone from Chaos -> that was interesting, too^^ Worked pretty well, I'd say
Although the Fountain Finder Award is probably also helpful. +21% xD
sacred meteor
oh yeah beo with dio cast =big numbers
solid saddle
so how valid is it to take nothing but the dinyosus hangover boons and stack up their level?
sacred meteor
Δ± mean yeah but its more fun if you get duos
demeter dio boon is fun
it has little delay but fun
balmy portal
demeter dio has much lower delay and can hit through pillars and things
at least, lower ones like the ones at Hades
sacred meteor
Δ±dk man Δ± have harder time on elysium with demeter/dio boon
balmy portal
I'm used to using dio without it >.>
landing hits with it is soooo much easier hehe
dunno
I just aim at the enemies and fire away
it fires fast enough that unless they're mid-dash it will hit them
thick valve
does the effect of pierced butterfly last even if you remove it?
barren otter
no, if you unequip it, the effect is gone
balmy portal
it needs to be a much stronger buff π¦
considering how much you have to give up to get it to a decent number by the end
balmy portal
there's a high tier mirror that boosts them a lot
pallid glade
Yeah, that makes a big difference, I can tell you^^
balmy portal
also, if you want a duo, make sure you target the requirements
generally it's a dash/attack/special/call for each of the gods, but not always
solid saddle
I usually do that just so I can get like the 40%
balmy portal
do the chaos +% damage boosts multiply with the olympians or is it all additive?
rare kindle
Additive
rigid wigeon
Best cast for hera bow?
balmy portal
bah
oh well
puts too much emphasis on crit, I think
when it's the only multiplicative
though crits would just be dumb if there were others so π
plain plover
@rigid wigeon i would say Dionysus, or ares. both have really good synergies with some duos
hunting blades makes blade rifts seek out your enemies, and freezing vortex makes them inflict chill.
while scintillating feast makes festive fog do lightning strikes, and ice wine makes them chill
balmy portal
lightning strikes are pretty low damage
but ice wine also includes a +30% damage boost on impact and makes them easier to land
...well
un-combo'ed lightning strikes
if you're heavily invested in Zeus their damage gets better
multiple strikes, jolted, etc.
I'd say it depends how heavily you're wanting lightning π
if you're just dipping into the duo, demeter is stronger
rigid wigeon
Interesting
I donβt have the Demeter keepsake yet bc I keep forgetting to gift her lol
I got my first spear win with hunting blades, itβs so op
plain plover
also, dionysus just has the highest base damage cast
does anyone know how to make good spear runs?
plain plover
yeah, it is. if i remember correctly though, a few people said it was good with hera
balmy portal
sure
but that doesn't mean it's good as it is if it's only useful with cast delivery aspects π
plain plover
oh, yeah, definitely. i find a lot of aphrodite boons a bit underpowered
balmy portal
like the dem/aph duo >.>
split jackal
Does anyone else find that you have to try to get the Athena dash every game?
plain plover
yes. athena dash best dash
balmy portal
when I was newer, yeah
now I don't always get it, but I definitely like it when I do
hollow owl
yeah, athena dash was My Thing when i was first starting out
plain plover
same
turbid needle
i always get it when it's an option
split jackal
ok cool, then I guess I'm not alone
hollow owl
me too, unless β¨divine protectionβ¨ is on there
turbid needle
i've been forcing athena on asphodel lately too since it helps secure her slot
plain plover
what is dd?
balmy portal
I think Athena's reflect dash should scale its reflect damage
turbid needle
death defiance
plain plover
ah
balmy portal
I do like to grab a death defiance if I've used one
turbid needle
nah, i think it's good as is
balmy portal
it's just
a waste of upgrades.
which is sad
I should always be interested in upgrading things
woohoo 6 more damage on my dash.
???
turbid needle
it's not meant to be an offensive dash
balmy portal
missing the point
rare kindle
It feels like such a waste when Athena offers her DD replenishment boons when you haven't used one DD yet
balmy portal
my point isn't whether it's offensive or defensive, it's that upgrading it is worthless
but it's upgradeable
rare kindle
rarity is pointless on deflect dash too
plain plover
yeah. i usually only use death defiances on thesius, and ||hades||
rare kindle
The important thing is that it deflects
balmy portal
I was counting rarity and poms both as upgrades π
like
Athena's cast, attack and special boosts both grow reasonably well with upgrades
just her dash is ???
plain plover
am i the only one who likes doing runs with only like, one or two boons
turbid needle
i cry when i'm using SD and forget to suicide in an athena room
spiral tree
Thoughts on aspect of zag fist+Athena attack?
plain plover
why would you suicide in an athena room with SD?
turbid needle
because there's a chance you get offered a DD replacement boon
and what happens is it stacks
i only use DDs on tiny vermin
plain plover
@spiral tree punching tennis
turbid needle
you get your SD the next room
plain plover
oh, cool!
turbid needle
then you have the athena DD on top of that
spiral tree
Better than Gilgamesh? @plain plover
turbid needle
yeah, this is why i've been forcing her
plain plover
never really used gilgamesh Β―_(γ)_/Β―
turbid needle
the extra DD?
spiral tree
Aspect of zag fist*athena attack is not really mentioned as a top build why is that?
turbid needle
eh
i dont think athena dash should gain anything from being pommed because its already the best dash in the game
^
plain plover
if you die after that point, does it use the DD first, or the SD first?
turbid needle
SD
plain plover
oh, so you can do it again
turbid needle
yup! which is great
plain plover
so you can theoretically get 4 death defiances and a stubborn defiance
unless i am missing a source
turbid needle
four?
plain plover
2 athena, one chaos, skelly tooth
turbid needle
oh, i didn't know chaos had a dd
balmy portal
um
turbid needle
is that the legendary?
balmy portal
no I don't think you can get a second athena
plain plover
yeah, its a legendary
turbid needle
i've def seen people with 2
balmy portal
supergiant just make it a feature plz
don't make silly things like "if you suicide with stubborn then you can get a bonus DD"
rare kindle
The only times chaos has offered me their legendary is when I'm low on health, with no DDs, therefore unable to make it past the curse so it can be counted for the prophecy
plain plover
btw, i have seen a lot of high heat players recommend killing theseus first. why is that?
opal lodge
who is recommending that haha
plain plover
a few people here. i have also seen it on the reddit. i always find asterius easier to take out
opal lodge
it gets a bit complicated once you unlock summons
turbid needle
i've only heard people saying to go for asterius first
opal lodge
and also if you have hunters mark from artemis
plain plover
what does hunters mark do again?
balmy portal
I just kill whichever sets itself up
bonus crit chance to other targets after you crit something
turbid needle
what do the summons change?
balmy portal
I like to kill them both at the same time
the summons have different attack patterns so it's easier/harder to hit Theseus/Asterius
opal lodge
yeah so if you hit one with a crit in this fight you can basically alternate and crit chain them to death
opal lodge
summons make it so each start with less HP so it's more viable to 1v2 them at the same time
opal lodge
yeah em3 is way different
plain plover
yeah.
opal lodge
depends on the weapon imo
turbid needle
i was trying rama with shackle
plain plover
thesius and asterius just switch who is the beyblade
plain plover
rama is hard. i made the mistake of taking explosive arrows
i love all the special aspects in theory. i just suck with them
aspect of arthur is nice though. give me that 400 health tank run
balmy portal
explosive arrows aren't a mistake
but you then need to dash strike all the things.
just pretend it's a melee weapon π
and only do full draws while enemies are spawning in
plain plover
i also had the dodge dash. not the two dashes
balmy portal
that's a bit painful
plain plover
also, they changed that from how it was in early access, right? it used to be three dashes?
or am i crazy?
balmy portal
I didn't play in early access so can't answer that ^^;
spiral tree
Ideally you want to kill asterius and thesius at the same time regardless of heat or weapon lol
opal lodge
ideally, but its still a lot easier to just kill bull while theseus does his thing, phase thesus and kill him when he calls
at least from what ive found on EM3
your 32/40 heat experience may be different
not a lot of these things are really "optimized"
rare kindle
Theseus becomes easier but Asterius becomes beyblades
His beyblades last a lot longer compared to his non-EM3 version too
opal lodge
theseus is easier until a rocket you thought you deflected hits you for 100 dmg
balmy portal
ugh just got screwed by a "can't earn coins" chaos boon
forced coin room and then the end boss + golden touch didn't trigger
...wait
bah
must have been 4 rooms
and the forced boon purge
man bad timing to choose that one.
OH
okay that really bothers me
when there's a chaos boon like "No coins for 4 encounters" and then I get a fountain room with a coin.
which is what happened here
so it didn't count down.
but it screwed me out of the coins anyway
...tl;dr: I think anything that counts "X encounters" should trigger based on having meaningfully activated; so shortened dash only counts if you fight (because otherwise shorter dash isn't meaningfully a problem) but "can't earn coins" should count down at the end of a room any time it blocks you from earning coins during the room
solid cairn
btw if that is active and you sell a boon you get nothing
balmy portal
I know
solid cairn
I think it's fine, since that is one of the less harsh conditions especially for speedruns
balmy portal
I just got hit by that
and the reason I got hit is that the fountain room didn't decrement
even though its award was coins
so I lost something like 260 gold to it π
solid cairn
read the fine print
balmy portal
I'm aware!
it's just frustrating and could be smoothed out
you'll note I never said "it's buggy"
turbid needle
well if you took the thing that stops you from earning coins why did you choose a coin room
balmy portal
I didn't "choose" it so much as that was the only room I was offered
turbid needle
oh well thats your L to hold
balmy portal
but the coin room isn't my problem
my problem is it was a fountain, which meant the curse didn't tick down
which meant it was still in effect when I beat Theseus
pallid glade
c'mon, Bianary gets it. You may disagree that it would be smoother or nicer or whatever
balmy portal
so I lost 97 to golden touch, and then another 45 to the required purge during heat π
pallid glade
But you can argue that a bit more nicely, surely?
balmy portal
because I got a fountain, which is supposed to be a good thing
pallid glade
fwiw, I also agree that it is fine the way it is.
balmy portal
I mean, I bought the diamond at the end no problem so it worked out
solid cairn
golden touch is really counter intuitive
silver sky
Just got beowulf! Any good builds?
solid cairn
oh you want resources
turbid needle
aphro cast
balmy portal
golden touch just means don't buy in tartarus
after that, it will pretty much net you more coins over the run
silver sky
anything else lol
balmy portal
it's a tradeoff on strong start or strong end
solid cairn
Just got beowulf! Any good builds?
not really
turbid needle
idk beo is pretty damn versatile
balmy portal
dio cast is also good with beo π
turbid needle
i had mirage shot dio cast on my last run lol
solid cairn
I love beo and from my experience the only builds I would really recommend is aphro cast with infernal soul and dio cast on stygian soul
balmy portal
there's definitely some builds where others are better π
plain plover
not a fan of base dio cast. too slow for my liking
solid cairn
the shops in styx are less important than early shops
silver sky
I already use infernal anyway. used stygian for the longest time tho
plain plover
i prefer stygian myself
solid cairn
for example if you see a god you want in your build you not only get that boon but that god in your god pool
silver sky
I'd imagine some bull rush hammers are good too
balmy portal
fwiw, I also agree that it is fine the way it is.
perhaps fountain rooms should count as encounters, then; I guess my big issue is they're supposed to be this nice break, and here I am cursing having gotten one π
solid cairn
sudden rush is good, charged shot is amazing
balmy portal
to an extent, Cin
solid cairn
but dont take one if you have the other
solid cairn
it makes it really easy to overshoot
balmy portal
since I can easily get to Styx at the moment, I like having coins there
plain plover
plus last shop gives upgraded stuff
balmy portal
when I'm doing a faster run or really high heat, yeah
that said, EM4 Hades with other heat boosts kinda scares the crap out of me still
opal lodge
should i break out the hammer tier list again
solid cairn
but take sudden rush if it's offered and charged shot isnt
opal lodge
dashing wallop s tier btw
turbid needle
dashing wallop busted
plain plover
whats dashing wallop?
solid cairn
more range and dash strike damage
plain plover
ah.
turbid needle
well i am excellent at chaining dash strikes
plain plover
i wish there was a way to look at all the hammer upgrades like you can with the boons
turbid needle
because i have an absurd amount of sword runs
balmy portal
Shell - well, you can look at the wiki
solid cairn
there is a combo with beo
plain plover
i mean... yeah
solid cairn
dash strike rush
balmy portal
but since you can't reroll hammers anyway and always get 2 unless you actively avoid them...
plain plover
but just in the game
plain plover
you can't reroll hammers?
balmy portal
nop
solid cairn
nope
balmy portal
is sadness
plain plover
huh. never knew that
solid cairn
that would be super unbalanced
balmy portal
meh
plain plover
i mean, true
solid cairn
persuasion is already better lol
balmy portal
the super unbalanced thing is that 1-2 hammers per weapon are godlike and the rest are meh
fix that imo
plain plover
i mean, persuasion is... meh
solid cairn
nah
balmy portal
persuasion is good
plain plover
i prefer to control which gods i get
solid cairn
I've tried both
balmy portal
the outlier hammers are ehhh
turbid needle
the only time ive used authority is for my boonless run looooool
solid cairn
persuasion is way better in my opinion
balmy portal
^
solid cairn
I played before persuasion was added
balmy portal
I think authority should gain +2 uses when you pick up a key
plain plover
agree
balmy portal
it has double the starting amount at max, it should gain double π
plain plover
i also played before persuasion was added
balmy portal
and that'd help it being weaker, a little
solid cairn
i prefer to control which gods i get
use the god keepsakes for that