Like how demeter and the hand enemies aren’t around till you get to hades
#h1-builds-and-combat
sly arch
proven osprey
H E A T
proven osprey
HEATED RUNS
sly arch
Probably wont be turning up the heat for a while anyway
sly arch
Still got clears to do on my weapons normally tho
proven osprey
That is no excuse dear sir or madam
You will get bounties even if heat is superior
Good training
proven osprey
What do you mean both
sly arch
Like if I haven’t beaten a boss with a weapon on 0 heat and then I do so on 1 heat do I get two of the reward?
proven osprey
Yeah
river wing
You get bounty for the lowest
proven osprey
One heat step at a time
That's why my advice is to grind at sililar heat on all weap
sly arch
So spear is clear, what weapon shall I do next? Probably shield
proven osprey
You'll get bored otherwise
sly arch
Yeah, gonna clear out heat 0 first
I already get heated when I lose to hades anyway
Also I didn’t have the third DD when I beat hades and now do, so heres hoping its easier for me now
river wing
Just follow the darker thirst
sly arch
Yeah thats what I’ve been doing, just doing what ever has the thirst on it
How is aspect of Hera btw?
river wing
It's Good fun
kindred hearth
Easiest bow for me, but I tend towards cast builds anyway
clever igloo
I like zag fists
bright fossil
blasted
clever igloo
On builds where I never want to touch the special button, may as well take a useful passive
bright fossil
Tbh i never use Athena boons once i get a hang of the game
i dunno counter seems cheap
but extra death defi effects are cool
bright fossil
I never really rely on it
sullen valley
oof
Got to phase 3, died instantly...literally for once, because the other 2 phases reduced my DD and HP
proven osprey
I never really rely on it
when heat is high it's a lifesaver
sly arch
Im sorta not surprised tbh im guessing thats what EM does to hades?
proven osprey
two things
bright fossil
and maybe because my brain relies on shields too
proven osprey
He summons mini bosses and gets a phase 3
sly arch
summons mini bosses
bright fossil
Butterflies everywhere
sly arch
Oh, joy
proven osprey
and new attacks for phase 2 and 3
bright fossil
tell me about it
proven osprey
i.e double spin
sly arch
Luckily im not touching EM4 for a while
wanton hound
Does doom stack? I have the option to get it on the railgun
wanton hound
Okie doke
bright fossil
well it can with a certain boon think
proven osprey
it does not stack, the boons makes it deal more dmg when "stacked" but you won't get more doom procs
with a swift weapon such as the rail you'll get low dps since one will apply doom and the 4 next nothing
and you're not going ME lol
bright fossil
I usually just go Zeus on rails because brrrr
proven osprey
yeah it works really well
clever igloo
Zeus rail is the best
wanton hound
can i inflict doom on myself with an ares special hazard bomb?
i dont want to experiment
graceful verge
How good is the Zeus/Ares duo boon? It looks cool but I suspect it isn't amazing.
barren otter
it requires you to build around it and it's kinda hard to obtain in the first place since it needs a revenge boon AND Zeus and Ares core boons
would've been better if their revenge boons counted as a requirement without needing their core boons
bright fossil
And i mean there are better periodic damage type boons that are better you just need to hit stuffs
graceful verge
What's a good god to put on special if I'm doing a nemesis sword with Artemis as my attacks?
I'm thinking Aphrodite
bright fossil
heart rend
barren otter
maybe Aphrodite and try to go for heart rend
bright fossil
go for aphrodite iguess
river wing
yepp
bright fossil
like sword has a lot of dash strike buffing hammers
and Artemis also have dash strike buffing boon iirc
river wing
slash or wave
graceful verge
Yeah that's also good for dealing with those annoying Hades spawns
barren otter
like sword has a lot of dash strike buffing hammers
I believe only two hammers work on dash-strikes on the sword - double edge and piercing wave
bright fossil
that is still quite a lot
river wing
double edge is broken
bright fossil
for supporting a play style
graceful verge
I think I'll take Breaching Slash
river wing
LOL astaos
graceful verge
I always get double edge as an option with Poseidon builds lol
proven osprey
lol
bright fossil
wait
if poseidon push foes away
out of your sword reach
i guess it works against bosses
river wing
eh?
bright fossil
i meant for poseidon dashes
misread
mb
btw is Aspect of Arthur good?
or am i just being dumb
proven osprey
Best sword aspect
bright fossil
so a decent weapon then?
waxen comet
It actually does stuff so yeah
proven osprey
yeah sure
bright fossil
I got used to +10% damage on Beowulf so Arthur makes me feel tanky lol
welp time to try for Hades
proven osprey
although sword might be the weakest weapon
waxen comet
Sword is definitely the weakest overall imo
Needs base damage boosts and for more Attack hammers to work with Dash-Strike
mellow quest
the non arthur swords just needs its attack combo to not be terrible so that it's more than just a dash strike stick or cast damage bonus
frank dew
if they got rid of the knockback on the 3rd hit that would be enough
mellow quest
that doesn't address anything about the combo's slowness and long recovery
wanton hound
why exactly would you want shattered shackle?
cosmic hornet
meme boonless runs
proven osprey
there is multiple reasons
boonless runs indeed. But it also allows you to go through tartarus "safely" at higher heats
But it's debatable
but some aspects struggle in tartarus
graceful verge
Blinding Flash, proud bearing, or last stand (have no extra deaths)
Thinking last stand for a deaths defiance but Proud bearing is epic and I got aphrodites call
dry ember
why exactly would you want shattered shackle?
Other than challenge boonless runs. I can see it being good for AP2 runs. Although the caveat is that you can still be locked undesirable attack/special. But still, better than nothing.
proven osprey
and you're not taking AP2 my friend
wanton hound
I see, ty
balmy scroll
Any boon suggestions for chaos shield? Was thinking Athena atk and ares special
river wing
cant go wrong with that ME opop
dry ember
alternatively Thunder Flourish can also work
river wing
how
dry ember
and might as well slaps Tidal Dash + Seastorm?
river wing
doesn't seem too good. the thunder
midnight scaffold
thunder flourish is good on chaos shield
river wing
cd too long
dry ember
The internal cd actually doesn't hurt that much
dry ember
I like Thunder Flourish + Curse of Agony
bright fossil
Tbh i just go Doom with any other debuff boon for easy damage
i like bull power rush Aphro attack
it hurts
opal lodge
thunder flourish is very good on chaos
so is curse of pain
you can basically slap whatever you find on attack and make it work
clever igloo
Why is thunder flourish good on chaos
If you shotgun the special you get one bolt only
opal lodge
what would be preferable for that? a % boon is tickling mobs
thunder flourish is good because it gives very impressive damage vs normal rooms and can still kind of hold up vs bosses, though you probably want tidal dash or a % attack boon to help deal with bosses
river wing
is return affected by special boon
cunning urchin
Yeah.
river wing
wow
turbid needle
Can you get Dashing Flight on Chaos?
opal lodge
you can
river wing
yes
turbid needle
That boosts Explosive Return as well.
opal lodge
you're not putting deadly flourish on chaos though
dry ember
If only Charged Flight Chaos is a thing huh
river wing
wait why not
cunning urchin
True. I put Heartbreak Flourish on it.
clever igloo
what would be preferable for that? a % boon is tickling mobs
Dionysus
clever igloo
I still don’t understand putting Zeus on it
cunning urchin
I like the DPS from Heartbreak Flourish for RI4.
clever igloo
I see people say it all the time tho
opal lodge
you can experiment with different options
clever igloo
So I’m trying to understand
opal lodge
from my experience zeus special just works the best for speed or for high heat
ol reliable
cunning urchin
Well, you wouldn't shotgun with Thunder Flourish. You'd throw it at crowds.
opal lodge
^
river wing
i don't get zues too. eberything else seems better?
opal lodge
you just accept your boss damage might fall off a bit without jolted
cunning urchin
But it's +300% damage on every shield that hits at Epic.
clever igloo
With hangover it’s reasonable
opal lodge
hangover's not terrible but on most mobs you arent getting the max value out of it
cunning urchin
So even if you waste some shields, you still do a lot of damage.
clever igloo
I just don’t see how it’s less value than Zeus
opal lodge
zeus also scales very very well with any additional support boons
double strike/jolted will increase your damage significantly
whereas a dio support boon does ??? for your damage
clever igloo
If the shields hit too quickly you don’t get the bolts
opal lodge
for single target
river wing
is cd individual for each target?
cunning urchin
Yeah, it's individual.
clever igloo
The cooldown is per target if that’s what you’re asking
Two enemies can get bolted at the same time from one attack
clever igloo
Because I don’t find bolting a few targets at once good
river wing
i've tried it but never noticed too many things on screen
cunning urchin
whereas a dio support boon does ??? for your damage
Bad Influence is actually insane at rare+.
opal lodge
yes bad influence is very good
clever igloo
It has no problem spreading hangover
cunning urchin
Numbing Sensation is also great.
cunning urchin
Peer Pressure is trash, sadly.
river wing
i've never understood that boon
the point of it, i mean, not what it does
4 seconds is ages . may be okay if lower interval
cunning urchin
You probably didn't understand the boon itself, either, unless you were somehow aware of this weird behavior lol.
clever igloo
It’s useful on weapons that aren’t otherwise good for procing bad influence
cunning urchin
How does this work with peer pressure? Generally peer pressure can transfer stacks back and forth, but it feels really inconsistent / buggy especially with the short range and infrequent application (every 4s). However, there is a definite bug where if peer pressure is the only dio stack on an enemy, it will do 8x base damage (but is strangely not scaled with some boosts to zag's damage like eris). This is far too awkward to reliable abuse, but it does lead to some huge dio ticks with other sources of global damage like dad keepsake + rush delivery.
For example, in the following screenshot I have a 5 damage hangover attack and a 6 damage hangover peer pressure. I hit the witch once, it infected the wringer with one peer pressure stack (6 base * 8 bug = 48 damage) and then it transferred two stacks back to the witch (why 2?) which resulted in (5 attack stack + 2 * 6 peer pressure stacks = 17 damage).
https://i.gyazo.com/361588e12e26192aae9f95785b61148e.jpg
From ellomenop.
clever igloo
I take it sometimes when I’ve been forced into dio awkwardly
river wing
thats interesting. lol.
bright fossil
or Dio?
clever igloo
Either Artemis or Athena
river wing
but either way.. 4seconds is ages
bright fossil
wait Athena?
clever igloo
Yeah high base, parting shot
bright fossil
ah right
i always thought Artemis and Dio
interesting
time to try it out iguess
clever igloo
My preference is Artemis
bright fossil
wait doom on auto then athena cast with duo boon seems nice
cunning urchin
Trippy Flare or Passion Flare will do the most damage.
bright fossil
that would reset and burst the doom immediately right
cunning urchin
Hunter's Flare damage and AOE is poor.
clever igloo
It would but you won’t be applying doom frequently enough to matter
bright fossil
yeah hunter flare is pretty bad
clever igloo
I like it
bright fossil
it failed me so much
clever igloo
Easy to grab mirage shot quickly
cunning urchin
Phalanx Flare does less damage than Passion Flare. Same base at common, but worse rarity scaling.
bright fossil
it couldn't kill Hades phase 2
clever igloo
Its base is lower but parting shot puts it way ahead
Unless you’re on pc I guess where that doesn’t work
bright fossil
passion flare is Aphro yes?
clever igloo
Yeah
cunning urchin
You could get Parting Shot on any cast. It doesn't require Phalanx Shot.
bright fossil
i always thought Dio cast is like strongest on beowulf beside crits from Artemis
damn am i mistaken
cunning urchin
Passion Flare AOE is also way better than Phalanx Shot AOE.
clever igloo
Dio has the highest base damage
bright fossil
what duo boon we go nice with passion flare?
clever igloo
But you can’t collect the casts right away
cunning urchin
Trippy Flare is probably the best for DPS.
bright fossil
i usually just go Dio with Zeus
clever igloo
Which wastes a chunk of what makes beowulf good imo
cunning urchin
You'd take Stygian Soul for Trippy Flare, anyway.
cunning urchin
what duo boon we go nice with passion flare?
Honestly, Smoldering Air.
waxen comet
Trippy Flare has a caveat and that's the need to use Stygian Soul
clever igloo
Yeah
bright fossil
the not getting cast back inmediately didn't really bother me much with zeus duo dio
waxen comet
Other Flares are much better with Infernal
clever igloo
A huge perk of beowulf is it doesn’t lodge casts in enemies and you can recover them immediately
bright fossil
in see
clever igloo
Going trippy/Stygian wastes that
clever igloo
It’s far from bad but it’s not my favorite for that reason
cunning urchin
m very sure Trippy Flare has the best DPS potential regardless.
waxen comet
Trippy Shot/Burst don't drop the Bloodstone until the fog dissipates, is the thing.
bright fossil
and usually hades gonna chase me so i can dash back toget casts
i'l try apphro cast on Beowulf next time then
clever igloo
I view it as the ceiling is higher but the floor is lower
waxen comet
Aphro or Artemis are the ideal ones for Infernal Soul
cunning urchin
You can Bull Rush into any bloodstone to pick it up and load it immediately mid-rush.
clever igloo
If I go Stygian and don’t get any extra cast stones I’m a sad panda
If I get a few it’s a great run
Ymmv 😕
Yeah
It has a very generous window for that too
clever igloo
Never seen your mileage may vary?
cunning urchin
Oh. I guess the speedrun record with Trippy Flare was beaten by Passion Flare again. I guess those two go back and forth lol.
Anyway, can't really go wrong with either of those two.
proven osprey
Hey, I'm a learning acronym trainer
opal lodge
yeah bablo smashed the record lol
i still prefer stygian but theres a consistency argument for infernal
cunning urchin
bablo plays with fewer chambers than the rest of us.
Probably always gets 1-sack.
opal lodge
its true each morning he wakes up and turns on his free room mod
clever igloo
Lol
rapid moat
Does boiling blood extra damage stack with multiple casts
bright fossil
wait so curse of longing is best with apphro cast?
bright fossil
i did able to get it in chamber 1 once tho
clever igloo
Aphro cast you’re going for parting shot
Oh that’s why I liked Athena
It triggers exposed with less fuss
opal lodge
tbh parting shot is a distraction
clever igloo
I knew there was a reason
opal lodge
all you need for any aphro cast build is snow burst
bright fossil
what is parting shot again
clever igloo
Huh?
bright fossil
i forgot
river wing
snow burst ftw
clever igloo
It’s aphro Athena dual
bright fossil
oh
clever igloo
Cast gets back attack damage +25%
proven osprey
It does things
bright fossil
hmm
opal lodge
backstab +35%
clever igloo
Combine with mirror upgrade 1
bright fossil
man i am really badat back stabbing
bright fossil
welp i guess it could work
clever igloo
It just automatically gets the damage
proven osprey
man i am really badat back stabbing
you must be a good friend
opal lodge
its nice to have but you should rarely keepsake for it
river wing
you need to backstab
clever igloo
You do?
bright fossil
i mean i have a shield so i usuallyface tanking
river wing
they fixed it
clever igloo
Well you rush behind enemies most of the time
opal lodge
you do need to backstab
the reason why people thought you didnt is because athena cast hera bow always backstabs
river wing
oic
proven osprey
clever igloo
Just because that’s where the flare spawns?
opal lodge
yep
clever igloo
Yeah backstab bonuses are high
clever igloo
Why is it bad on beowulf
river wing
icewine appears with short delay
clever igloo
Lol
bright fossil
the only time i won EM4 was when i got Ice wine with Cold fusion and feast
but that explains why because hades just move out of the way
before the cast go
river wing
it's good on normal cast aspects
bright fossil
i see
primal hazel
Well as long as you got the skill
bright fossil
just slow enemy down enough i guess
primal hazel
Soo what you'd recommend for a slicing flare build?
Just going for hunting blades?
Also is it viable go combine with freezing vortex?
I know normally it isn't
But on flare
primal hazel
I know you don't like fun
primal hazel
You don't want to get on my bad side
Otherwise I'm really gonna rock your world
Slicing flare build ? Does not exist. Next
You just reiterated yourself
proven osprey
I don't see any link between these 2 assertions
primal hazel
That's the problem 
proven osprey
icy kernel
that mirror blessing that increases the likelihood that boons spawn is so damn good
proven osprey
I'm losing against a stone. How did I sink to that depth
primal hazel
Welcome to the Obvious Club
sink
Nice to have you as a member
Jk dark foresight is insane for consistency
Played my first 60 or so runs without it
Insane difference
waxen comet
Slicing Shot on Hera and Beowulf are funny, not the most effective though
primal hazel
On beowulf it's way better than hera imo
Especially if you get the bull rush projectile
Flare has a bigger aoe but lasts shorter
Aside from effectiveness I'm having incredible fun with it
fading pecan
Oh I’m glad we’re already talking about cast based aspects, I wanted to ask what everybody’s favourite is between Beowulf, Poseidon and Hera (and Achilles I guess but I hate how out of control I feel with that)
primal hazel
All of them
proven osprey
Beowulf so I can play slicing flare
frank dew
i quite like Hera
devout ether
Poseidon for the Artemis spam
rare kindle
Blade rift or crystal beam for cast builds?
devout ether
Crystal Meme even in non-cast builds, obv
primal hazel
Beowulf so I can play slicing flare
You're only playing yourself
proven osprey
You're lying
primal hazel
No u
somber mountain
Whats the best companion?
primal hazel
No U
primal hazel
Whats the best companion?
Probably batty or shady
proven osprey
whispers in antos
primal hazel
Huh you like antos but not slicing flare
primal hazel
Seems like you do have a knack for sub optimal things
Never said antos is bad
I like antos
fading pecan
My favourite to use is Dusa, though I don’t think she’s the “best” technically
primal hazel
At least she's better than rib
fading pecan
But she is the best in my heart, and pretty good!
primal hazel
Well said
proven osprey
who's shady
fading pecan
Sisyphus’ companion
proven osprey
...
Come on it's garbage
Antos can one shot the sneak and save you some times on the furies
it's an amazing dps tool
it maybe worse than meg
primal hazel
It is
proven osprey
But depending on the aspect
fading pecan
Yeah Sisyphus is more overall utility for grinding
split orbit
Dad hammer suggestion plz: choice of world splitter, super nova, or flurry slash (current boons are: poseidon dash and special, ares cast and attack, aspect: zagreus unleved)
primal hazel
That speaks volumes for you
split orbit
Previous dad hammer is hoarding
primal hazel
Jk man I really like antos too
Oof Zagreus sword
With poseidon flourish
And ares attack
fading pecan
Listen, supergiant, I would 100% buy companion plushies and you know this
split orbit
Had to restart due to new console, don't have rerolls or keepsakes
proven osprey
Jk man I really like antos too
FINALLY
primal hazel
I also said that before
primal hazel
Had to restart due to new console, don't have rerolls or keepsakes
Biggest oof
split orbit
Eh its fine, I don't mind it tbh
primal hazel
As soons as the other patches hit switch
split orbit
But idk which to pick, world splitter for burst, flurry for dps uptime, or nova for "get outta my face"
primal hazel
Never world splitter
split orbit
That bad huh?
dry ember
World misser
split orbit
Heard. Never picked it before
fading pecan
Get outta my face is good option for melee isn’t it? If you find yourself surrounded
split orbit
I also have poseidon dash though
dry ember
If I was you, I would pick Nova.
dry ember
Neither Flurry or Splitter does anything for dash striking stuff
split orbit
Not really no
dry ember
Yeah but he isn't dash striking
if I was him
Learning how to dash strike spam is good anyhow
split orbit
Nah my build is kinda sit and atk. Which is why I'm hoping for an arty call
dry ember
Yeah flurry + hoarding is fine
primal hazel
somber mountain
I was alrrady close to getting the rat and snake companion
split orbit
Aaannnddd.... no call
proven osprey
Almost as <@238040913715265537> aos sense for fun
Alright, getting brutal
Just wait I find some repartee
primal hazel
I'll be happy to hear back from you in a week
dry ember
Well technically, if he finds something unfun fun, wouldn't that mean his sense of fun is bigger, not smaller?
split orbit
Wait can you not get calls until a certain point in the game?
void fjord
Ur first boon is never a call
Beyond that it's rng
And on fresh file calls are only possible on the 2nd or 3rd run
dry ember
Your first call is a scripted event.
split orbit
Ah heard. Did not know, thanks
I think like my 4th or 5th run and I got to last boss. Glad to hear it wasn't all the upgrades that was getting me far in my old game file
rare kindle
Yeah, they intentionally nerf your first run
No hammers, no well of Charon unless it’s after a boss, only 4 gods can appear, no Hermès
split orbit
Yeah but watching the new file speedrun was like... holy cow
dry ember
they force your hand to do Merciful End huh
proven osprey
I'll be happy to hear back from you in a week
I'll be there
primal hazel
Me too
hollow bane
blitz shield? anything that would compliment it
proven osprey
Zeus special is dope for that
You're not selling Artemis special out ?
turbid needle
Artemis special is mostly a RI/AP strat
Since getting Tier 2s and legendaries is harder
turbid needle
It's most consistent if Poms are your main source of scaling, is what I found
Meta for Zeus shield is Merciful End or Zeus special abuse, from what I tested
Granted, if it weren't for those two, I'd go for Heart Rend strats
sonic mural
whats a good fist + basic build structure to get started on fists?
unkempt pagoda
zeus strike should be plenty good
dry ember
except for ME build, Lightning Strike is a good base. Deadly Flourish if you have Demeter fists
Divine Dash is nice. Breaching Cross, Long Knuckles are about the best overall hammers you can take.
sonic mural
ok thx
proven osprey
here we go
the cold hands curse is back again
At least I have something to blame my endless defeats on
calm bluff
Zeus is the best damage on fists since it relies on comboing to do good damage. Each hit itself is weak, so percentile and crit attacks don't help as much.
That being said, someone's probably going to tell me I'm wrong on that :p
proven osprey
Then if you don't get any piece of your combo ?
rare tusk
Both Zeus and Doom are good on attack
cunning urchin
Curse of Agony wins.
graceful verge
Cold embrace or crystal clarity?
finite socket
fair wraith
I’m partial to Dionysus on fists because of how easy it is to get stacks with the fists
If you run privileged status you can fish for Aphrodite dash and the duo boon
mellow quest
might as well use chiron at that point
fair wraith
You could but fists are fun
rare tusk
Yeah ME build is obviously the superior choice
unkempt pagoda
sometimes the optimal strategy is not the best answer :v
rare tusk
But always going for the meta build sucks out the fun from the game
unkempt pagoda
i mean yeah you can run ME fists all the time winwinwin, but like
sometimes i want to use quake cutter
rare tusk
Pretty much
Kinetic Launcher, Quake Cutter, Explosive Upper
All fun to mess around with when using Demeter Fists
Was getting 1.4k Kinetic Launcher crits earlier today 👌
quick sky
What is most important to make a Zeus build work?
woven delta
Very high attack speed
So stuff like the fists and rail
Alternatively, any attacks/specials that have low base damage (like shield special)
After that, Static Discharge for Jolted is good too
dry ember
You can add Chiron to that list with an asterisk also.
quick sky
I mean I feel single target DPS is low so I just avoided Zues.
dry ember
Single target is great on fists.
Although admittedly I also supplement it with Deadly Flourish for Demeter aspect.
gray shore
What is most important to make a Zeus build work?
Always just slam more zeus. Get duos, have high attack speed. Some gods work very well when they have a complete set of support boons, Zeus is one of them
mighty ermine
attack has no internal cd, special has 0.2s internal cd
rare tusk
Aight, forget what I said
woven delta
Coincidentally, this is where the asterisk on Chiron aspect comes in
rare tusk
I was thinking of something else
calm bluff
I rarely use merciful end
river wing
nice 😄
pseudo iron
im so confused rn
river wing
o.o what's confusing?
mellow quest
any blade rift, and either black metal or engulfing vortex
that's all that's needed
river wing
is it bugged? seems to add +2 +1 +1 +1..etc
hybrid galleon
its diminishing returns
the further levels of a boon is the more diminishing return it has
river wing
the vicious cycle itself, i mean
inland meadow
can duo boons be gotten from duo rooms period or is there just a limiter on the gods there?
pliant anvil
no, trial rooms cannot give duo boons
opal lodge
you can get legendaries though
rare kindle
Blade rifts really shine with hunting blades but for that you want cast blade rifts
rare tusk
It kinda sucks how bad Blade Rifts are without Hunting Blades
I mean they do hit hard but they're just incredibly inconsistent with it
rare kindle
Kind of weird how ares has two different archetypes going on
river wing
it's pretty good supplementary damage
can do up to 4 digit numbers while you're doing other stuff
sand sparrow
"Oh man railgun with Poseidon's attack and Zeus+Poseidon duo boon must be fun as hell"
duo boon doesn't show up until Elysium so I'm stuck supersoaking enemies and pushing them out of my range
I'm very good at coming up with builds
river wing
most gods have 2 archtypes
rare tusk
Is Piercing Butterfly bonus additive or multiplicative?
rare tusk
Alright, thanks.
proud topaz
any thoughts for doing bow properly? i can do everything reasonably well except bow. i have to slow and careful and do attacks or specials and doing that leaves me too open
is it just that bow is slow?
sonic mural
chiron bow
proud topaz
i have that, that's still attack-then-special
so i'm focusing on one thing at a time
sonic mural
its p fast
you just shoot a quick shot, then start dashing and interweaving special spams
its kinda slow for room clearing ig since u can only focus one at a time but it melts everything
proud topaz
i also have to probably sink more blood into it too
sonic mural
what heat r u playing at?
sonic mural
just make sure ur constantly moving - ur special takes practically 0 time to cast
proud topaz
all right, i'll keep at it
sonic mural
or watch haelian or something
opal lodge
also
for chiron you definitely want to be attacking a bit more than special in tart
like theres no point in specialing each unarmored witch
proud topaz
right
i've also wondered if Rama might be better for me, but i haven't gotten that to reveal yet
rare tusk
You still use attack on chiron too(for mobs) at least
Rama is honestly pretty amazing
Very strong AoE and amazing single target as well
It does take a while to get used to though since the attack is a bit slower
untold iris
what the point of using attack more than special in tartarus?
you hit bad guy with attack
if they're not dead, you press special once and then immediately dash out of the animation and target the next guy with your attack
I find that alternating attack -> special is pretty good at killing most enemies in tartarus
and is probably easier/faster than attack -> attack at cleaning up low hp enemies
rare tusk
On Rama or Chiron?
royal helm
Any Beowulf players in here? Stygian Soul isn't real worth it unless you do Trippy Flare, yea?
woven delta
I'd say it's better to use the regen cast than the other one
You can still get more bloodstones with it
half crater
Any Beowulf players in here? Stygian Soul isn't real worth it unless you do Tri...
correct
meta is basically stygian soul + trippy flare or infernal soul + passion flare
still vigil
so question?
if i wanted to once again use dio on fists, what could i pair him with to deal with bosses?
pliant anvil
aphrodite is best for +3 stacks
still vigil
hmmm
pliant anvil
then ares for the faster ticks.
still vigil
i forgot about those
half crater
yeah what springs to mind is aphro on special with dem fists
still vigil
😅
pliant anvil
yeah, dio on attack, aphro on special
half crater
low tolerance + big burst from the 5x special
still vigil
kk! That just might work along with gettin better at dodging
half crater
you could potentially do something similar with splitting headache
and arty on special
pliant anvil
and you can still get ares via curse of vengeance too iirc
still vigil
cause when i use dio on mobs after getting peer pressure and bad influence, mobs crumble
half crater
you want to go for one of those three duos for sure yeah
or more than one, if you can
still vigil
tyty
pliant anvil
well, with 3 choices for duos, you could reliably get 2 I'd say
decent chance at getting one set up in tartarus, then force another in asphodel
still vigil
Ive always wanted to try make dio work cause he seems to possibly have a chance at mowin things down if given the right perks
pliant anvil
arty on special, dio on attack, aphro on dash/cast, ares on curse of vengeance.
onyx silo
is there any way for, with the weapon ||gilg's claws to make it maybe with an option/toggle so the dash doesn't just keep happening when you hold dash? like, it makes things feel clunky on pc when, normally dashes are you press button and dash, but then on these you dont tap lightly enough and suddenly zag's five screens away and blown the whole dash repertoire||
half crater
gilg is kinda renowned for being a little janky sadly
river wing
ive been trying to use gilg more. it's quite fun. feels weakest of all the fist for sure though
ruthful reflex is kinda nice for more damage. extra dash makes it fine.
rare kindle
Its special feels a little slow to me
river wing
also, getting the timing for dash maim makes the main so much more usable, dont' have to stay in the same spot for 3 hours to main.
rare kindle
I had a run in which I tried to buff the special a lot but lost because it couldn’t kill fast enough
river wing
the non-dash-upper special?
i kinda never use that. 😐
it's like 60 base. which is the same as one swipe
also. if you get breaching atk or a strong dash. you can do the "hold atk and dash tgt" thing
and it dash attacks really fast, lol.
untold iris
to be honest playing with gilgamesh just feels really unsafe
normal fists are so fast that you can usually react to what is coming
but gilgamesh is laggier, and sometimes it will buffer moves like dash attack when you're trying to empty dash and get you killed as a result
river wing
yea it happends 😐
ornate prawn
sorry if i'm interrupting but random question
if i'm trying for the "Bad Call" achievement
is there anything I should look out for to try and set it up?
river wing
i got it by farming respawning shades in elysium
the ones that pick up their weapon again
ornate prawn
ooh, didn't think of that
opal lodge
yep that works
ornate prawn
i was thinking i'd try and get the "auto-charge call" hermes boon and then just kite
opal lodge
boiling point from poseidon, clouded judgement from zeus, andquick favor from hermes all help
same with athenas proud bearing boon
but honestly it's mostly a matter of getting an elysium trial and farming the shades
ornate prawn
not just an elysium trial but the right one
actually do trials pull from your god pool?
rare kindle
I got mine by dying during the trial
opal lodge
trials always pull from your god pool
rare kindle
Because I thought the run was doomed anyway
opal lodge
so there's a 50% chance it pulls the god you care about
ornate prawn
and then you offend them
ornate prawn
alright thanks for advice
rare tusk
Do double strike lightning procs count towards the cap of 5 hits/s
onyx silo
any chance of getting like, a buffed furies encounter? almost feel bad dunkin on em as the first boss, maybe like how in pokemon sword n shield you fight gym leaders' 'true' selves in the finals? that'd be neat
rare kindle
There’s no chance involved but you can make them harder through the pact of punishment and putting on extreme measures
dry ember
any chance of getting like, a buffed furies encounter?
crank enough heat. FO2 HL5 EM is a good start, for example.
dry ember
Forced Overtime, Hard Labor, and Extreme Measures.
river wing
crank up the CP LOL
dry ember
Yeah but CP also makes the overall experience worse imo.
HL is somewhat fine because you can dodge attacks.
You can't dodge a big health pool.
half crater
Do double strike lightning procs count towards the cap of 5 hits/s
they don't, nor do the hits from splitting bolt
rare tusk
Thanks
unborn pebble
Does the Lambent Plume Timer tick down when Hades is transitioning from Phase 1 to Phase 2?
main osprey
don't think so? haven't paid attention
barren otter
I think it does
rare kayak
god i remember my few runs after em fury buff
alecto beyblades account for 90% of my tartarus dd usage
i just cant dodge em for some reason
rare kindle
I dodge them better when she’s solo but when there’s smoke from tisiphone, yeah, she tends to use a DD
opaque wren
Hey I'm new here and was curious if there is a good website or place to find good builds or if this was the best place for it. I am not a very creative person and enjoy a known strong build. thank for your responses 🙂
vernal kestrel
this run was hilariously fun, 2 specials then 2 uncharged attacks then repeat just as the hangover fades, it did like 2000 damage each attack cycle https://i.imgur.com/1euH6PN.png
i feel like rama is sorta ovepowered with dionysus special?
half crater
idk if there's still controversy about this or not, but here's proof that parting shot does require you to backstab (you don't just get the bonus damage for free): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfyfQD-8ihc
silk hearth
yea its the worst duo imo
half crater
weirdly i only seem to be getting a bonus 50% in this clip
silk hearth
unless ur going cast ofc
half crater
no idea what happened to that other 35%
silk hearth
weirdly i only seem to be getting a bonus 50% in this clip
hm
0 dmg parting shot hah
half crater
i mean, it is still allowing the cast to backstab in this case at least
literally useless on trippy shot tho lol
opal lodge
wrost duo
how could it be worst duo when freezing vortex exists
you cant get it on trippy shot
opal lodge
but yeah it should give you bonus +85% for cast backstab if you're using shadow presence
i tested it before
half crater
hopefully they fix the bug that lets you get it on beowulf, if they haven’t already
river wing
parting shot isn't the worse dou 😐
half crater
oh it probably is +85% in my clip
i had other stuff giving bonus cast damage, so it’s stacking additively ofc
opal lodge
yeah that makes sense
river wing
yea. we know pretty much everything but crit does it add
opal lodge
i think freezing vortex and some other demeter duos are probably worse
river wing
cold embrace
half crater
yeah i just forgot about my other bonuses for a second lol
river wing
freezing vortex i tried once... it was... unusable
opal lodge
parting shot at least has utility on athena cast hera bow builds
freezing vortex not only is a terrible duo but also locks you out of an actually good duo, hunting blades
half crater
freezing vortex locks you out of hunting blades, the only reason anyone would take slicing shot in the first place
ninja’d
opal lodge
lol
river wing
and the vortex boon pretty much does more than freezing would
half crater
engulfing vortex? honestly yeah
river wing
also anyone knows what's up with vicious cycle 😐
opal lodge
vicious cycle is insane
half crater
it doesn’t debuff the size for no reason as well lol
river wing
it doesn't seem to do as described
it would be insane
IF it did what it says it does
opal lodge
i think it does
half crater
i haven’t looked closely at the damage numbers when i’ve had it, but i’d believe it’s working correctly
opal lodge
its tough to say with such a fast hitting multihit move
half crater
it certainly feels like a big damage boost
opal lodge
^
opal lodge
how can you possibly tell that lol
river wing
video
opal lodge
do you have it
my main problem with vicious cycle is that it basically requires HB to be nearly as effective
royal helm
It should be doing 2, 4, 6...
If it does 2 + 1 + 1, then it does 2, 3, 4 (which is significantly worse)
opal lodge
and relying on a leg and a duo is not a winning strategy
river wing
if it actually does +2... blade dash would be pretty good
royal helm
I mean... it should just do what the tooltip says it does 😂
Talking about whether the boon is good or not is a different question/convo
opal lodge
pretty good i think is an overstatement for anything relating to blade dash
half crater
had a run recently where i got hunting blades in tartarus, and black metal, engulfing vortex and vicious cycle in asphodel
royal helm
It would be insane with Slicing Shot... considering you can get it up to like a 4.7 duration? And each blade rift would tick 47 times. That's a massive damage accumulation
river wing
😐 i love blade dash.
half crater
that was an amusing elysium
but yeah you can’t really rely on it all falling in your lap consistently
river wing
blade dash is pretty good by itself imo
half crater
didn’t someone do bladed dash only 32 heat a while back
royal helm
I figured something was up with it because Hunting Blades honestly seemed to suck... even when I got Vicious Cycle... but 🤷♂️
half crater
hunting blades definitely doesn’t suck
opal lodge
really?
i thought HB with vicious cycle was fine
a lot of setup but once you get there it does the job pretty well
half crater
yeah it’s fine, or fantastic with the right buffs
river wing
hunting blades is amazing even without vicious cycle O.O
royal helm
It does good damage, but I'd really just rather stick the boss and get Artemis crits 🤷♂️
river wing
you should try it again someday maybe
half crater
like, on achilles it can be pretty hilarious
royal helm
So that's what I'm comparing against
opal lodge
well what weapon are you using haha
opal lodge
if it's like rama then yeah hunting blades might not be the most productive use of boons
river wing
need that damage boost
half crater
yeah achilles is the ideal weapon for it imo
opal lodge
talos is a sad sad weapon
river wing
and also cast damage on pulled stuff
opal lodge
i really wish talos was better
half crater
same
river wing
i do too..
opal lodge
its such a cool concept but
half crater
it was my fav weapon for a long time
opal lodge
you have to pull enemies
royal helm
I never tested Achilles Slicing Shot... mainly because I don't want to find out that only 4 ticks of it get the bonus damage
That would tilt me into a rage quit
half crater
but i can’t really use it for high heat stuff
royal helm
That's pretty stronk
opal lodge
anyway talos
you have to like
pull
just to get the same buff
that poseidon gets
all the time
it makes 0 sense balance wise
river wing
lol
half crater
big agree
no reason the buff shouldn’t be bigger
it’s not like reverse yeeting is waaay more powerful than cast dislodging
opal lodge
id be happy with a 100% cast damage buff and get rid of the attack buff altogether
river wing
it's worse
opal lodge
the attack buff basically does nothing for most talos builds anyway
since it doesnt buff flat damage
half crater
yeah it’s still harder to use than achilles, because it you need to apply it to each thing individually
river wing
i think even with 100% to cast/attack it still wouldn't be too amazing comapred to other tsuff
half crater
so 100% should be fine
well, idk
maybe it should be higher, but i don’t think doubling the bonus would be broken
half crater
it’s competing with demeter after all, which is a pretty high tier weapon
river wing
demeter stronk
opal lodge
grandma's gloves good
river wing
one thing i find on fist is that the special isn't very fitting to the normal attack?
but demeter solves that beutifully
half crater
yeah it’s not just good, it’s also just super satisfying
vast dew
What sword aspect is the best currently?
half crater
nemesis
hazy kiln
HELLOOO EVERYONE
vast dew
What boons work well with the Aspect of Nemesis?
half crater
most broken build is prolly still lightning strike + tidal dash -> sea storm on eris rail
hazy kiln
oh yeah
half crater
literally 99% of the speedrunners are using that
vast dew
I want to try that out once I get enough Titan Blood, but I'm not that good with the Rail
half crater
What boons work well with the Aspect of Nemesis?
artemis/aphro attack and stack dash strike damage bonuses (hunter dash + chaos boons) for speed, but that can get pretty dangerous
you can substitute in athena on either attack or dash (or both ig) for more safety
vast dew
I see, thank you.
half crater
any other that is as fun as that?
merciful end builds on fists spring to mind
hunting blades on achilles
trippy shot on beowulf with bad news and scintillating feast does burst damage numbers that ought to be illegal
vast dew
Can't you just look it up yourself?
half crater
merciful end fists builds are athena special+dash, ares attack and their duo boon
hunting blades is the artemis/ares duo boon that makes slicing shot seek targets
hazy kiln
relax bro, I'm stoned, if you don't mind talking ....
half crater
the beowulf build is dio cast (with regenerating casts), the hermes legendary and the zeus/dio duo
lol
vast dew
Nobody asked if you're stoned
hazy kiln
thank you bro, u're the best @half crater
half crater
these are just a few off the top of my head; they're by no means a comprehensive list of the "best" builds
but they're all very fun and powerful
np
hazy kiln
Nobody asked if you're stoned
u need smoke one bro! hahahahah
vast dew
Imagine having to excuse your sht behavior with "I'm stoned"
hazy kiln
lol
bright fossil
So i just tried Aspect of arthur
it was interesting to say the least
but i somehow only crit like once in Hades fight so it was quite underwhelming
waxen comet
Crit RNG is that way
bright fossil
i mean it did crit once for like almost 2k as back stab
waxen comet
Nice.
obtuse herald
how good is the crystal beam
half crater
viewing this screenshot is a right of passage for everyone who's played arthur: https://i.imgur.com/ZFC2hMTh.jpg
obtuse herald
was trying it out and it was decent dmg against hydra but feels kinda lacking
half crater
we're all just trying to do 8k crits with it, but few of us ever manage it
crystal beam is eh, really
bright fossil
crystal beam tried its best
obtuse herald
i wanna purge it but fountain keeps tryna change my good boons
half crater
with crystal clarity and the right upgrades it can actually be pretty good, but its kinda hard to get online and hunting blades is just a better version of it
obtuse herald
yeah i also got the instant recall for cast too
half crater
oof yeah them purging pools are fickle beasts
bright fossil
tbh i feel like cast build on sword feel better than Arthur because of range and synergize with Exists wound
more consistent
But like not hunting blade so does it really matter
obtuse herald
aand pool was merciful
what would be the best ideal cast with greater recall from hermes
bright fossil
then tell how how to make Guanyu good
bright fossil
which duo
rare kayak
max titan blood
you dont need duos
charged skewer aphro special will carry you through 90% of the game
bright fossil
rare kayak
you'll have to work for the other 10% but its not hard either
one of the easiest ways to get the thanatos achievement
bright fossil
parting shot?
rare kayak
if u wanna
u dont rly need duos for every build
if u want u can always go splash dash and get the pom duo
and pump flourish to mega levels
bright fossil
hmm
rare kayak
either that or take artemis, pp then try for heart rend
rare kayak
aphro's just generally a nice option for gy because it gets her in the pool
and life affirmation is a really good boon for gy
bright fossil
ok So Guanyu is basically about throwing spear right?
got it
so it's just bow
hold on
rare kayak
u can also run an athena spin build but i dont like gy's spin
bright fossil
i don't like spear spin in general
tbh i have only been using hunting blade on Archilles spear so i don't know how spear really play
half crater
cheesing along using hunting blades achilles and not learning how spears work at all is what got me where i am today
bright fossil
hey as long as it works
half crater
agree lol
bright fossil
EM4 hades doesn't play fair so why would i
bright fossil
is it really tho
like not all build can dish out enough damage during the invincible time