if you kiss too tightly it doesn't seem to work right either
#h1-builds-and-combat
devout ether
The embed is funky, yeah
balmy portal
trippy fog does high base damage too, without range penalty
devout ether
But the damage+effect is killer
balmy portal
no embed mind
devout ether
Trippy fog has other drawbacks
balmy portal
and other strengths
it can go over obstacles, and it spams interrupts
plus a number of really strong duo effects possible
proven osprey
who cares I just put casts in my bow
thorny dirge
crush shot is godlike on alternate delivery mechanisms (beowulf and hera) at least if you have the post-launch pc patches
turbid needle
Trippy Shot being OP doesn't make Crush Shot bad.
devout ether
Same with every boon
balmy portal
I'm saying crush shot is too weak as it stands for general use
devout ether
Though I do wish Dio's dash got buffed
thorny dirge
well it's balanced around its ranged penalty
balmy portal
Dio's dash is fine
turbid needle
I think Crush Shot could use a little extra work on it embedding but it's fine besides.
balmy portal
so
thorny dirge
so you mitigate them
balmy portal
give crush shot a little wider range
thorny dirge
then you got a great cast
devout ether
Dio's dash is fine
@balmy portal I struggle to see how you can hold this opinion and the crush shot one at the same time
devout ether
Does it though
balmy portal
yes?
devout ether
(no)
balmy portal
I just did a run where it took out lots of chariots for me that way đ
devout ether
You took out chariots with 2 strength hangover? Did the run take four hours?
balmy portal
the little ones
flame wheels, I guess
2 strength?
sure
I can see Dio's dash needing a buff in its base damage
hangover damage in general is pretty pitiful
waxen comet
Trippy Shot has some fairly harsh drawbacks, namely travel time and being really rough to use with Infernal Soul
balmy portal
yeah
waxen comet
Hangover needs to be built for if you're not just using it for removing Damage Control stacks
balmy portal
in exchange it ramps up damage faster than crush
see
I don't think that's a good fit for hangover though
waxen comet
It stacks almost linearly.
balmy portal
having a mechanic that's super weak unless you're just using it for another thing
waxen comet
No, let me continue.
Every Pom past the first will always add one damage per stack, per tick
balmy portal
but for damage, I'd take trippy fog with a bunch of poms over crush shot
and it's way safer to apply trippy fog to dangerous targets
way, waaaaay safer
turbid needle
If they're not moving, maybe.
waxen comet
And you have two very strong Hangover Duos, namely Ares and Aphrodite.
balmy portal
you learn when they're likely to move
turbid needle
Crush Shot fires much faster and has Weak to mitigate the increased risk.
balmy portal
getting hit for 70% damage still hurts like crazy
crush shot should fire faster.
that would be a good perk to it, imo
turbid needle
I think we're at an impasse.
balmy portal
its damage + affect is nowhere near strong enough for its current penalty
turbid needle
I think they are.
waxen comet
Trust me, 12 hangover damage per stack, per tick is a bit ridiculous when it's 8 stacks and/or ticking every 0.35s instead, with a couple of global damage modifiers like High Privilege to crank it up.
balmy portal
okay JuliLynx but that takes huge investment
waxen comet
Yes
balmy portal
almost everything is just as scary with that much investment
waxen comet
So do most good builds
balmy portal
so hangover is crappy uninvested, and only on par with other strong options when fully built
you don't see the problem there?
waxen comet
I'd say it can surpass most things if it's not being used as a tool
waxen comet
Exagryph and Malphon are excellent at doling out and keeping up Hangover
devout ether
Chiron with Dio special can put in some work
waxen comet
Yep, that too
balmy portal
tbh I'd generally rather have doom with exagryph
just ping once with normal and go back to whatever else I'm targeting
refresh frequently
waxen comet
That's one way, yeah.
You can also do shenanigans with Dire Misfortune and Impending Doom.
sly arch
Honestly yeah, the thing is that it seems to me like hangover is good on only some moves, while doom is kinda good on everything
balmy portal
^
I'd like hangover to be adjusted for a bit more global utility
but whatever; it's okay
Does anyone take crush shot when not using a cast loading build?
waxen comet
I'd say Doom still has a niche when it comes to heavier weapons
proven osprey
doom.. exagryph ?
waxen comet
Yeah.
balmy portal
I'd take doom on exagryph's attack
balmy portal
it's not actually trash on hestia
proven osprey
and no one plays classic
waxen comet
You can either use it to apply Doom on multiple enemies, or pair it with Impending Doom to crank up the danage
balmy portal
because you can fire your big hit then spray others
classic exagryph. Actually could use balancing.
waxen comet
Why would you bother with Eris
balmy portal
Because why would you ever want more ammo.
clever igloo
Why would you take doom on hestia, huh?
waxen comet
You realise Eris empower is a global damage buff
balmy portal
because it makes follow up shots more useful
clever igloo
Over pretty much anything with a better damage mod
proven osprey
nah it's just stupid on hestia
balmy portal
it's definitely not my first choice on hestia
but I've ended up with it and it's okay
clever igloo
It really doesnât help follow up shots on hestia
royal helm
I sometimes like Crush Shot, depends on the weapon
clever igloo
Anything is fine for clearing trash
royal helm
Sword, Shield, Fists
waxen comet
Hestia actually wants damage multipliers, not added flat damage.
royal helm
because you're always going to be in crush shot range
proven osprey
you want big chonky crits
clever igloo
Yeah
royal helm
Literally at all points
clever igloo
Artemis attack is miles ahead
royal helm
It's a free curse activator, basically
clever igloo
Backing up, I think hangover is more than fine
waxen comet
Eris is super good with added damage; Hangover, Lightning Strike and Doom
royal helm
It's generally not the first Aphrodite boon that I'm looking to get but... if it's there, I take it sometimes now
waxen comet
75% extra damage on those is nothing to scoff at.
royal helm
Eris is OP đ pretty much outright
waxen comet
Impending Doom can make it work.
clever igloo
Err
thorny dirge
ME rail used to be a thing, granted that's probably ME being busted more than doom being good
clever igloo
I mean, Iâm sure you can clear with it
royal helm
Yeah, I could see ME eris rail being good but meh
clever igloo
Idk why youâd ever intentionally take it
turbid needle
You can still make that happen.
Not a ton of reason to use it over Malphon, though.
clever igloo
Yeah
royal helm
And it is ... "Doom being good" ... it's contingent upon the base damage of doom
If doom were bad, ME would be bad
thorny dirge
sure
royal helm
lol, ok... cut doom's base damage in half and come back to me
clever igloo
Youâre saying the opposite which isnât quite right
I agree if you nerf doom damage ME gets much worse
royal helm
Doom on attack is what, 60 or 50 on common boon?
clever igloo
But that doesnât necessarily mean doom is a good pick even if it has good damage, there are other prerequisites to making ME function well
royal helm
Yeah... impending doom? But that also becomes significantly worse if Doom's base damage was not good
waxen comet
If you cut ID's damage too sure
sly arch
how is the aspect of nemesis?
royal helm
Good, 30% crit is a lot
waxen comet
Decent insofar as any Stygius aspect goes
Having up to 30% crit is nothing to scoff at, but it's still Stygius
sly arch
Well its only 15% for me so far, but okay
royal helm
It is... still the sword đ˘
waxen comet
I did say "up to"
sly arch
Is stygius bad or something?
balmy portal
I enjoy stygius' arthur aspect đ
proven osprey
it's like zag aspect but with something
royal helm
The sword might be objectively the worst weapon...
In many senses
You have to play very dangerously, constantly dash striking (so bad range, bad utility, bad dps)
waxen comet
Shoddy attacks, benefits don't properly outweigh the drawbacks
royal helm
So it's the most dangerous weapon, with no upsides
balmy portal
...like the ability to rip your casts out of guys
royal helm
The Arthur sword is a chonker though
thorny dirge
it's mostly the bad tracking on autoaim + wonky hammers honestly
royal helm
Oh yeah, Poseidon sword is pretty fun with Exit Wounds
But you don't always get Exit Wounds
balmy portal
yeah
waxen comet
I'd say Aspect of Poseidon saves itself by being Cast-centric and therefore giving you the ability to circumvent most of Stygius itself.
proven osprey
But you don't always get Exit Wounds
@royal helm I always do
sly arch
Hm, what weapon/aspect would you recommend for a beginner? The spear has been good to me so far
balmy portal
you use Poseidon not because you want to use Stygius, but because you specifically don't
depends partly on playstyle
spear is good
gun can be good
royal helm
You are more skilled than I am...
proven osprey
I just fish for it real hard
royal helm
Last time I played Poseidon I went to every Artemis room and it had to have been like 8 rooms
And never saw Exit Wounds
proven osprey
wow
balmy portal
yeah you can get crappy luck
royal helm
I was like... "Is this even possible?"
balmy portal
it happens
proven osprey
for a t1 boon
waxen comet
Aegis is always a good recommendation for newbies, as is Varatha
waxen comet
Coronacht can be solid too, though it shines better with Aspects.
balmy portal
the default just wrecks me though I'm terrible with it
waxen comet
Chaos' Aegis is lowkey very good
sly arch
Aspect of Achilles is good right?
royal helm
It shouldn't be possible... mathematically, so I am probably being hyperbolic... (might have been like 5-6 artemis rooms)
balmy portal
um
waxen comet
Solid at applying on hit effects
balmy portal
it's totally possible
if you start getting higher tier boons and/or duos
you can end up never seeing a tier 1
royal helm
Yea, you open up other duos and stuff
balmy portal
I went fishing for blown kiss on an earlier run and kept getting high quality crap
royal helm
I definitely did wind up picking a Lightning Rod in that run, I think...
balmy portal
when I just wanted blown kiss
waxen comet
Zeus is wonky but good if you can play into it
balmy portal
zeus is fine with just zap on special
then you can make it better
but it's trivial to get it usalbe
waxen comet
royal helm
Zeus' T1 boons gross me out in that they feel so weak... (except on Eris rail)
But his damage scales ridiculously with Jolt, Double strike, call, billowing, etc
waxen comet
Then just recall it.
royal helm
So once you're in Zeus... you keep going to him
royal helm
Yea... I think it's the best damage call in the game? It certainly feels that way
waxen comet
Zeus' Aid is very melee centric
royal helm
But the range can be dangerous... sometimes
balmy portal
but seriously why recall the shield because you've capped drunken with it?
waxen comet
Definitely scales well though
balmy portal
you can just keep stacking hits
no benefit to recalling but it's just lost drunk
so, just add zeus to special
waxen comet
I don't care about overstacking much, tbh
royal helm
Zeus call with double strike pommed is just absolutely nuts
waxen comet
I just see it as keeping stacks fresh
balmy portal
just wasted damage
and most little enemies die long before fresh stacks matter
even boss
waxen comet
More damage, faster kills
sly arch
Heartbreak strike or flourish on spear? 
balmy portal
it's damage over time but so much of it is wasted
waxen comet
Strike imo
balmy portal
strike imo
clever igloo
For aspect of poseidon I just force Artemis immediately and go for mirage shot
sly arch
Yeah
clever igloo
That usually gets me to see exit wounds
royal helm
Pressing the special button on the spear tends to be wrong... so Strike probably 
clever igloo
I donât because it gets stuck in enemies
sly arch
Also I took the hammer upgrade that reduces dash range but makes the dash attack hit three times
waxen comet
Varatha Special can be good but it's a bit difficult to get going
sly arch
Had to take it for a fate anyway
balmy portal
risky Dank
royal helm
The spear's special is like â Do you have exploding launcher?
balmy portal
try to get some more dodges
royal helm
If not, do not press this button
waxen comet
I like Chain Skewer. Fun, daft thing.
sly arch
I have aspect of Achilles so I hope that helps my movement out a bit
royal helm
Chain Skewer is fun to watch bounce around but
balmy portal
chain skewer with doom application is pretty stronk
royal helm
The time that it takes to do so is incredibly frustrating
clever igloo
Achilles is super good for other reasons
waxen comet
Achilles is actually a Cast weapon
clever igloo
Yeah
royal helm
I could be defending myself by hitstunning everything in my general vicinity... or I could throw my weapon away
sly arch
But armor makes enemies immune to hitstun
royal helm
It does, yes
balmy portal
you don't throw it when everything is in range of your regular attack
sly arch
Also is the charged sweep bad? It seems way too hard to actually use
balmy portal
charge it behind cover when things are approaching
but mostly yeah don't use it
oh
also charge it while guys are loading in
royal helm
Charged Sweep? Massive Spin?
clever igloo
The fast charge hammer helps a lot
balmy portal
greet them with a whirl to the face
sly arch
I mean the move, not the upgrades
waxen comet
Only worth it while enemies are spawning, or if you're using Aspect of Hades.
royal helm
Quick Spin and Massive Spin are both very good hammers
sly arch
Gotcha
royal helm
Even the pulsing/sturdy hammer is reasonably good
clever igloo
I donât use spin at all without the hammers
waxen comet
Punishing Sweep makes it incredibly good.
royal helm
But ... you usually want to be playing Hades if you're in the Spin build
waxen comet
Nah
clever igloo
Itâs ok on guan yu
waxen comet
Well, not necessarily
royal helm
I guess 150% dmg spins for the 250 damage spin is pretty nice on Achilles
balmy portal
massive spin makes it cover the whole screen
waxen comet
Punishing Sweep has extra range but doesn't buff itself
If you want spin damage at the cost of Hammer reliance, I'd say Achilles wins out
balmy portal
not if using fourth aspect >.>
proven osprey
nah
waxen comet
Depends on the Aspect.
proven osprey
Guan Yu is charged skewer serrated edge nothing else
opal lodge
i listen to astaos for GY
balmy portal
like
proven osprey
And at high heats serrated feels impossible
waxen comet
Guan Yu has something of an excuse but I rather dislike Guan Yu's Attacks and spin
proven osprey
And you can commit seppuku if you don't get an early skewer
royal helm
Well, the Spin hammers are basically unusable on GY in FO2...
clever igloo
No thanks lol
waxen comet
The main and only real benefit to its spin is that its healing somehow ignores Lasting Consequences.
sly arch
Flood shot or tidal dash
balmy portal
...unrelated
waxen comet
Tidal Dash on general principle
balmy portal
it annoys me that many of the non-boss rooms at the end of Styx are harder than the bosses.
opal lodge
which aspect would you want a spin hammer on
waxen comet
Flood Shot is good
sly arch
Gotcha
proven osprey
It's good to spin against waves of ennemies yeah
but god you gotta get used to FO2 beforehand
waxen comet
Depends which spin hammer
royal helm
Well... Tail's Hades 43 has him with the pulsing/sturdy hammer... it pushes through DC
opal lodge
the only one i rate somewhat highly is flaring spin
waxen comet
Whoops.
calm bluff
I did guan yu level 1 with fast charge and longer spin move
waxen comet
Faster charge is wonderful on Hades.
royal helm
I like Massive Spin a lot.. and Quick Spin
sly arch
I think I've died more to the megagorgon/cyclops head combo than any boss so far
opal lodge
faster charge doesn't really make a difference on hades tbh
waxen comet
That duo is frustrating
opal lodge
since you're mostly doing min-charge spins
royal helm
You don't always get to see Serrated Point though
balmy portal
I love the megagorgon it's so easy đ
royal helm
Eh, it can push you from the breakpoint to the second... so it does push a small amount of damage
balmy portal
yeah
proven osprey
it's safe until EM4
balmy portal
shorter dash distance hurtz
if I were better at timing the invuln frames it would be different
but I suck at it
opal lodge
just stop attacking lol
balmy portal
then I still have shorter dash distance
opal lodge
empty dash can i-frame
waxen comet
I should practice with Ruthless Reflex.
opal lodge
unless it's aphrodite trial
opal lodge
yes
waxen comet
Yes
proven osprey
yeah
devout ether
Correct
opal lodge
spin dashes also have i-frames
devout ether
To be precise, iframes stop as soon as you hit attack
waxen comet
Be very careful with Malphon dash strikes.
thorny dirge
you can technically dash-strike at the very end of the dash for some iframes
slower dps tho
proven osprey
and that's why I'm an athena dash scrub
royal helm
Turns the spear into a rhythm game like the bow
opal lodge
i am not giga enough to time my dash strike for 20ms later in my dash
i would rather just be safe and empty dash
and then dash strike when it's safer
proven osprey
tbh high heat led me to divine dash
and I kinda dislike it
because it means that without it I'm garbage
devout ether
Athena's Dash is the biggest crutch, after all
unborn pebble
Remind me, did they change Dodge to Soft-Cap or not?
devout ether
But then again the game wasnt balanced around 40+ heat so I get it
balmy portal
I like using excalibur's special by beginning it then dashing to plonk it down instantly where my dash ends
devout ether
You can do that with all sword specials
waxen comet
Abyssal Blood would be better than a Boiling on cast-centric builds, yeah?
proven osprey
But then again the game wasnt balanced around 40+ heat so I get it
@devout ether Tell that to GY lol
royal helm
I mean... when you play Serrated Points, you should be hitting your attack near the end of your dash anyway
waxen comet
Since Boiling does nothing for casts.
royal helm
And that's what I mean when I say it turns the spear into a rhythm game
opal lodge
i like boiling still unless it's high heat
royal helm
Dash away, look back at enemy, attack ->
devout ether
Good cast centric builds dont really spend time with casts lodged, I'd say
opal lodge
abyssal helps tone down FO2 a bit
proven osprey
I actually have never tried abyssal
opal lodge
most cast builds you also should be supplementing your casts with other damage
like with achilles you're not just waiting for your casts and then playing go fetch if you want to get the most out of it
unborn pebble
Speaking of dashing away and looking behind to attack, sydtko, you know about any good "left-hand controller, right hand mouse" setups?
devout ether
Achilles is best with non-lodging casts, tho
thorny dirge
it can play with either, +150% on attack is good artemis attack memes
devout ether
Speaking of dashing away and looking behind to attack, sydtko, you know about any good "left-hand controller, right hand mouse" setups?
@unborn pebble You can totally do this with controller, though perhaps a bit slower than is possible on mkb
royal helm
@thorny dirge I'm thinking you don't push any more/less dps if you press your attack button at the beginning or the end of the dash... but I could be wrong... since you're still hitting that cooldown gating timer or your dash/attack?
unborn pebble
yeah, that, I find that mkb is quicker in weaving in the attacks but that the controller gives me better control on where I go.
royal helm
I dunno... I'm always on sticks/pad so đ¤ˇââď¸
I don't know any
It's pretty easy to do on sticks. On kbm it's probably hard?
thorny dirge
i'm actually not sure, it felt slower when i was chaining attack at end of dashes, but i have no empirical evidence
sonic mural
Is seastorm really necessary for eris rail or just cluster rocket for speed?
royal helm
Yea, I just tested on kbm and it feels a bit awkward
calm bluff
Yeah, in terms of input I could do it faster on keyboard, but sticks let you have easier mobility
waxen comet
Cluster rocket is probably better if you don't mind playing in an almost kamikaze manner
sonic mural
Also whats the point of splash dash then?
proven osprey
it is nice but the WR does not even use it lol
opal lodge
splash dash is still the highest base damage dash
sonic mural
Yah lol i saw wr take damage in first ten seconds over seastorm so im wondering
opal lodge
you'll often get upwards of 100 damage with 1 pom in your dash + eris buffs
proven osprey
Lili even chose hydraulic might over sea storm
opal lodge
nothing to scofff at
hydraulic is really good for speed because most rooms dont take longer than that
proven osprey
Yeah
balmy portal
I like splash dash best with +% damage based on movespeed and +100% movespeed after dash đ
it's the lazy damage bonus
royal helm
Rush Delivery and Hyper Sprint
sonic mural
So the strat for rocket cluster is to just dash into boss while spamming attack and rocket?
proven osprey
you want to be in the rocket range yeah
balmy portal
using it more maybe my problem with crush shot is just it's buggy for actually landing
it doesn't always hit enemies that seem well within range
hard kelp
g'damn, phalanx shot build does so much damage
balmy portal
yeah
hard kelp
i lucked into all the good duos and legendaries except for hermes. double shot, and bouncing phalanx shot. artemis extra casts.
i had to take a break before finishing because low battery
but there's one hermes boon in the shop. if i can afford it, i might get his legendary
proven osprey
this is what I got earlier
greater recall allows you to go gatling mode
not caring about retrieving cast you waste in the wind
untold iris
what boon am I supposed to sell to UC:
the options are hunters mark, heartbreak flourish, heart rend
im using zag sword
i feel like maybe I'm supposed to sell heartbreak flourish, take athena into asphodel, and then hope to pick up heartbreak flourish at some point in the future?
or I can sell hunters mark and just be slower at clearing basic rooms
thats probably better now that I think about it
proven osprey
im using zag sword
@untold iris
opal lodge
that's terrible can you roll
untold iris
no
proven osprey
would sell mark I guess
untold iris
because my only other boon is deadly strike
opal lodge
what rarity is the mark
untold iris
I have plenty of time though
opal lodge
very sad
untold iris
since im on TD2
opal lodge
epic hunters mark is insane
untold iris
so I think I can take a bit longer to clear regular rooms
opal lodge
i think it was the right choice though
crimson badge
whats a good build for chiron bow
balmy portal
which one is chiron ... is that fourth aspect?
proven osprey
for me you have two options
balmy portal
...man I remember them by their numbers ><
proven osprey
Drunken flourish (with heartbreak strike, would be optimal for their duo)
Or the classic Heartrend build with Deadly flourish and Heartbreak strike
relentless volley, concentrated volley
balmy portal
oh chiron is that one
calm bluff
What cast is best with beowolf?
crimson badge
thank you astaos
proven osprey
I don't know anything about that weapon but people seem to like dio cast
calm bluff
Makes sense for the burst.
balmy portal
funny though
calm bluff
I tried Artemis and it didn't work out well, but I feel like legendary aspects are more reliant on being fully upgraded to be effective
proven osprey
I tried Artemis and it didn't work out well, but I feel like legendary aspects are more reliant on being fully upgraded to be effective
@calm bluff It depends but for some yeah
balmy portal
legendary sword doesn't rely too much on full upgrade
calm bluff
trying out guan yu level 1 was an experience
balmy portal
lol yes
proven osprey
It really is
calm bluff
i got extremely lucky and got fast spin and longer spin time.
Otherwise that run would have been dead
calm bluff
I mean no, not typically
I just like the spin move but you pretty much need 2 hammer upgrades to make it worthwhile.
Although I suppose you could get away with fast spin. Does hermes upgrade for attack speed do anything for spin charge?
balmy portal
fast spin is necessary for guan yu imo
proven osprey
Actually you can make small spin efficient. Plus you can charge dash to give momentun to your spin while moving
balmy portal
after that longer or bigger are both good
proven osprey
You don't need GY spin to get better
balmy portal
stun locking with spinning spears
proven osprey
since you don't clear with it
devout ether
fast spin is necessary for guan yu imo
@balmy portal Funny way of spelling charged skewer
Never spin with GY
You'll live longer
proven osprey
basically yeah
calm bluff
I mean, I've done two clears with spin only.
balmy portal
okay
proven osprey
But some rooms are free hp
balmy portal
for those of us who suck at not getting hit
being able to recover quickly when it does happen is invaluable
proven osprey
I don't see it that way
balmy portal
like
devout ether
If you're getting hit with GY then spinning isnt gonna restore much health anyways
calm bluff
Granted not high heat, but I'm not exactly in high heat territory anyways.
balmy portal
if your spin charges fast enough to keep something stunlocked within spins
you can totally restore all your health with GY
balmy portal
well yeah
untold iris
i think charged spin is pretty good
balmy portal
you gotta not be dumb with it
untold iris
whoops
balmy portal
and if you don't have fast charge you absolutely will get wrecked trying to spin
untold iris
quick spin
proven osprey
yeah but you talk like heat is non existent
untold iris
quick spin is good because it lets you actually use spins as projectiles
without it they charge way too slow
balmy portal
I haven't tried to use GY at high heat
that would be a nightmare
8 I think is the highest I've taken it so far
devout ether
GY can handle high heat alright if and only if you get charged skewer
balmy portal
sure
proven osprey
can't belive I lost that screenshot
balmy portal
does GY have an improved dash attack?
proven osprey
no
balmy portal
then
devout ether
It deals more damage, yes
devout ether
Serrated Point is okay
balmy portal
...if it deals more damage that's an improved dash attack
devout ether
But you want to be at range ideally
proven osprey
yeah but that's not specific to the dash attack
balmy portal
fair enough
proven osprey
but yeah you would go dash attack anyway
the 3 hit combo is clunky
hard to make it work
devout ether
It's funny cause the buffer combo wasnt even a buff
calm bluff
I don't think I've ever done the attack animation for any weapon
devout ether
It's still not good
calm bluff
Being a sugar rush gremlin usually kills things faster.
proven osprey
well at first it even disabled the double dash strike lol
balmy portal
that's a regular strike when fully buffed
proven osprey
GY was even harder
calm bluff
So both the lifesteal in this game is pretty much useless at higher heats
untold iris
time to hope for a 2 sack so I can keep my touch of styx into the hades fight
devout ether
So both the lifesteal in this game is pretty much useless at higher heats
@calm bluff You're forgetting one!
The only good one
untold iris
and then I will never have to do zag sword ever again
calm bluff
What's the good one
devout ether
It's kinda embarrasing how much better it is than the other two
Fists has a hammer
Kill with special, get 2% HP back
untold iris
cursed slash is obviously the best one because it cleared 51 heat :^)
calm bluff
Eh I don't usually use my special so I don't take it.
devout ether
Eh I don't usually use my special so I don't take it.
@calm bluff Why would you not use Demeter aspect?
calm bluff
Although gilgamesh kinda incentivizes me to use my special now so.
proven osprey
this is the worst build possible
devout ether
Wow, didnt even take EM3? That cant be right
calm bluff
Demeter's alright but I haven't fully upped it
proven osprey
it was a test run
just a joke from Nyaanyaa that I decided to put to practice
It was really hard
by itself
The thing is that tempest strikes pushes back your ennemies from your spins
and that was a spin only build
calm bluff
Tbh I like Athena on attack since it becomes a giant circle of no u
balmy portal
fists lifesteal is good but won't save you on the fights you'd really need it đ
namely: Bosses
proven osprey
hm
calm bluff
I suppose 2% lifesteal would be good on the skulls in Hades but elysium probably not as much
balmy portal
...though you can get quite a bit back from skulls
proven osprey
it really depends
balmy portal
Elysium as an easier fight at least
proven osprey
you can regen in rooms and be full at bosses
calm bluff
I don't really count the first two since I've just gotten to the point where I usually don't die unless I'm really careless
balmy portal
Styx is great for finishing little rats with gloves though
calm bluff
2% would be good in hydra though
Does the lifesteal on special work with god curses from your special, and maim from Gilgamesh?
proven osprey
Special must kill
calm bluff
Because it looked like it didn't for me
devout ether
Does the lifesteal on special work with god curses from your special, and maim from Gilgamesh?
@calm bluff Yes on the second
balmy portal
I'm sure maim works
calm bluff
and mainly why I don't take it
proven osprey
oh
calm bluff
Before maim at least.
proven osprey
Yeah ares might not work actually
balmy portal
doom probably doesn't
calm bluff
Although it's rare I kill with maim.
calm bluff
I don't, that's more things on the screen to think about lol
Is lucifer mostly just its special?
I haven't tried it yet
In a run at least
balmy portal
I didn't enjoy lucifer at all
but I play exclusively gamepad because I don't enjoy controlling movement in this style game with m+kb
it felt like it would be much better using a mouse
sonic mural
why does hades keepsake w/ eris railgun get used?
rare tusk
for chonky cluster rocket bursts
devout ether
To block off the Call slot
proven osprey
...
rare tusk
That as well
proven osprey
it's really good
calm bluff
What gods do people use on eris speical?
sonic mural
why did guide say it buffs damage?
proven osprey
it does
devout ether
why did guide say it buffs damage?
@sonic mural Because it does
sonic mural
isnt it only invis?
proven osprey
no sir
balmy portal
...is the tooltip missing details again
devout ether
Have you read what Hades' Aid does?
proven osprey
to get the full detail
rare tusk
People tend to go for either Artemis for the crit or Aphrodite for the highest multiplier on Eris special
devout ether
But really, the main reason is to not have to roll for other gods' Call
rare tusk
Depends what you're going for I guess
balmy portal
like
devout ether
I'm guessing he's looking at an any% guide
balmy portal
how excalibur's protection field is also a massive projectile slow
that's not really documented đ
sonic mural
for speedrunning is the only heats you do is em 2 and overtime and maybe the speed buff?
proven osprey
yeah
balmy portal
not in the place I looked đŚ
devout ether
for speedrunning is the only heats you do is em 2 and overtime and maybe the speed buff?
@sonic mural Overtime IS the speed buff
balmy portal
there must be somewhere with deeper descriptions
waxen comet
Depends on the category
proven osprey
I thought it was only projectiles at first lol
devout ether
I think you're a bit too early to be worrying about speedruns, mate đ
sonic mural
i just wanna get sub 10 mins haha :D
waxen comet
The game gently drives you to speedrun anyway
devout ether
not in the place I looked đŚ
@balmy portal Did you look in the aspect menu? It's there
sonic mural
the wiki says its unlisted
balmy portal
that's where I thought I looked. I'll look again later.
sonic mural
that it slows projectiles
balmy portal
I am pretty sure it's not on the aspect menu
devout ether
The wiki has a lot of outdated info
I am pretty sure it's not on the aspect menu
@balmy portal Coulda sworn I read it there
balmy portal
to be clear; timer stops when on a boon selection or other menu?
devout ether
If not, musta hallucinated it
balmy portal
there's a hammer that specifies that it slows enemies more
sonic mural
not when ur viewing ur current boons i think
but u can display the timer in the corner and check
proven osprey
to be clear; timer stops when on a boon selection or other menu?
@balmy portal yeah
balmy portal
current boons doesn't stop heat timer no
I guess I'm just wondering
if the end game timer runs the same as the heat timer
proven osprey
yeah
devout ether
It's the same, yes
sonic mural
balmy portal
I waste so much time checking for gold urns đŚ
turbid needle
Anyone here have a good aspect of Lucifer build
Itâs been a while since I played
devout ether
Anything that's good on regular rail is good on Lucy pretty much
The actual answer is Triple Bomb
balmy portal
if you can get it to drop đŚ
turbid needle
Yeah time for the grind then I guess
balmy portal
is there any build that wants Cold Embrace?
because for the life of me...
if the beam would continue through me it would be awesome
rare tusk
Or Poseidon attack with with Zeus Legendary
turbid needle
Zagreus: hey dadelus can I have a hammer
Nobody:
Dadelus: do you want me to drop the hammer boy
rare tusk
Zeus attack and Doom with Dire Misfortune can be pretty fun too
rare tusk
It's great if you manage to get attack speed off Hermes and some of those attack speed hammers(can't recall the names atm)
turbid needle
I know what your thinking of m8
rare tusk
I mean you don't need Hermes, it's just a bonus for even dumber attack speed lol
turbid needle
Hahahaha yeah I remember I did a run with Chiron aspect with heroic Artemis special, and heroic special speed up, along with the +4 hammer
I took about an 8th of hades health out with one hit
rare tusk
Lol
My favorite build so far has been
Demeter Fists with Explosive upper, Artemis Special and ~500% backstab damage damage off Chaos and Athena
Dad just evaporated
calm bluff
I do want to do a full crit build with Arthur though just to see those big numbers
balmy portal
arthur third strike is so big
rare tusk
I'm not a big fan of Arthur
rare tusk
It just feels so slow even with 30% attack speed from Hermes
turbid needle
That would be awesome
balmy portal
because it's so chonky
rare tusk
200 base damage third normal is pretty chonky though
sonic mural
its so clunky
sonic mural
idk i tried my best to like it since i love the mythology behind it but it kinda feels awkward to use
turbid needle
I once had a crit up sword build with big chop and hording slash did 3k on a hit
balmy portal
it felt awkward to me until I figured out how far it reaches
sonic mural
i did 5k with heartrend
turbid needle
Nice
sonic mural
but its also kinda inconsistent with crit since all the attacks are so slow
rare tusk
Could try to grab
Uh
What was it called, the Athena + Artemis duo with 20% crit chance on deflect
And put on Athena dash
rare tusk
basically try to proc it between swings
turbid needle
My favorite is shield with hangover and all the pluses on special ||(chaos aspect of course)|| and sea storm on your attack
rapid moat
Hey I have a question, does triple jab stack with serrated edge? aka 9 hits on a dash attack?
turbid needle
Iâve gotten it 6 times and itâs some of my favorite stuff
Hey I have a question, does triple jab stack with serrated edge? aka 9 hits on a dash attack?
Yeah Iâm pretty sure it does
rare tusk
I don't think you can shotgun with triple jab?
turbid needle
get the doom stack on that thing
sonic mural
isnt triple jab only on attack?
proven osprey
only attack
rare tusk
That as well
turbid needle
I miss read that yeah theyâre right
balmy portal
I'm so bummed that the sword heal on attack doesn't work on dash strike đŚ
proven osprey
it would be a bit too good
balmy portal
I knowwwww
turbid needle
No row row your sword with heal 
balmy portal
but it's remarkably hard to get regular attacks right after closing đ
turbid needle
Does anyone here actually use ||dad call||
I usually only take it if I donât have a call by the end
balmy portal
there was a discussion on it earlier
balmy portal
Does anyone ever use the duo that makes demeter's lasers target you directly? đ
rapid moat
If I got flurry jab, would holding down attack and then dashing transfer the effect onto dash strike or no to that also
balmy portal
rare tusk
Sometimes if I want to go for big numbers, but I still prefer Zeus and Athena call over it
balmy portal
yeah
that's what I thought
...could it be updated to just, you know, not end at Zagreus?
turbid needle
Yeah Zeus call is nice I prefer Poseidon though
balmy portal
and instead do like normal and go until it hits an enemy?
turbid needle
Kind of wish it was like the doomguy stone support enemies
balmy portal
isn't that how it is?
ooh
you mean also connecting the gems to each other
yeah that would make it better while still unique
turbid needle
Yeah and ending at you
turbid needle
I know I was saying keep the end at you
balmy portal
the one time I took it, just to get it off my fated list, I couldn't manage to sell it and was so sad
yeh
if it went between the gems it should still end at you, I agree
turbid needle
And add that so itâs comes from you bounces off and then comes back
rapid moat
SWEET IT DOES
rapid moat
Everyone.... Flurry jab and serrated edge stack.
rapid moat
Not triple jab but flurry jab, so you can autoattack wqhile dashing
balmy portal
I want flame wheel release to show up again already
devout ether
You mean... holding down the attack button and dashing to dash attack?
AKA The thing you can do with fists. I guess that means that with Flurry Jab you could also do it with sword huh
royal helm
@balmy portal I had a very enjoyable shield run with Dem/Aphro duo, so yeah
Because I could put Crystals up and just block
lulz
balmy portal
but how'd you get on the far side of the enemy reliably?
sly arch
I got to hades and killed him, but then OH BOY SECOND PHASE and I died
Am so mad right now
balmy portal
yep đŚ
royal helm
I'm basically always in shotgun range with the shield đ¤ˇââď¸
balmy portal
(You can just dash through them normally, but so many enemies dodge around like crazy they just move away from being between you and the crystal in my experience)
tidal dash + second wave = all rooms of trash die to dodging. Yayyy
royal helm
Oh, I wasn't tending to use it on anything small... just bosses, big rats, stuff with a decent chunk of hp
royal helm
Yep, but you don't get +4s and +30% damage on regular lasers
balmy portal
no...but you get generally 30% more time striking targets
turbid needle
Once I found out you can ||hug dad while heâs doing laser disco|| I was able to flawless him
balmy portal
if you get dem/art faster track duo
wait if you ||hug right on him you take no damage?||
sonic mural
yah
turbid needle
Yup
sonic mural
tons of free dps
balmy portal
as long as you don't have a lunging attack đ
turbid needle
||who knew hugging grumpy man would lead to victory||
balmy portal
||hugging it out is always victory||
turbid needle
as long as you don't have a lunging attack đ
Guan yu players: Am I a joke to you?
balmy portal
guan yu can strike in place
turbid needle
?
sonic mural
? guan yu spam special
turbid needle
When I see the tiny vermin I always want to try to code it to have a chefs hat and a ladle and rename it too remmy
balmy portal
...you want to kill remmy???
turbid needle
cook me dinner you useless rodent
balmy portal
not gonna lie ||being able to stack on Hades during his lasers feels bad||
turbid needle
Why your just giving ||dad|| a hug
turbid needle
Itâs on purpose no one knows why
balmy portal
I assumed it was on purpose
it just feels bad to me from a theme point of view đ
turbid needle
Supergiant talks about it in the ign devs react vid
fading garden
Does anyone have any advice for exagryph. I've come to learn that that is the weapon I am worst at and I really am not sure what to do to make it stronger.
pliant anvil
eris rail + zeus attack
rare tusk
^
Eris aka Meta Gun
The special gives you a 75% damage boost for 8s at lvl5 if you stand in the blast
rare tusk
It synergizes extremely well with Zeus
sonic mural
then try to go as fast as possible
fading garden
I also use a controller and it can be a little tricky to aim the special. What is some advice you may have to get better with it?
rare tusk
Pretty much
rare tusk
Let go of your analog stick when you use it, auto aim will handle it
fading garden
I didn't know that Leaf. Thank you!
rare tusk
IT might not be super consistent on all mobs, but definitely works against bosses
You're welcome
smoky horizon
hrmmmm hazard bomb, targeting system or explosive fire for ||eris aspect?||
proven osprey
Targeting system is ok
Hazard would kill you even if it works
Explosive is just bad
smoky horizon
smoky horizon
that's true
rare tusk
Hazard bomb is kind of a bad choice for Eris
rare tusk
If only you could pair it with Triple Bomb
cunning ibex
alright i want to talk about this with other people
IMO EM3 is easier then normal theseus
cunning ibex
here are some FACTS
-
in normal Theseus targets you with constant but slow attacks if you avoid him, in EM3 this is not the case and he attacks on a path. sometimes following you with very slow attacks
-
Theseus seems to have a lot less health and his phase 2 trigger is much later.
-
Asterius gets a few new attacks, buy they are slow. his dash might be faster but it doesn't even do that much damage if you get hit.
rare tusk
EM2 Lernie is the hardest boss, f*ck you fight me.
proven osprey
On FO2 Theseus can burn my Acorn Real fast
rare tusk
It's embarrassing how many of my high heat runs die to him, lol
cunning ibex
I think EM2 is the biggest difficulty increase from normal to EM version
still vigil
who ever thought FO2 HL5 EM3 Asterius was a cute idea....
i just wanna talk
silk hearth
yea theseus chunks ur acorn with his guns
still vigil
it's like bein the protagonist in movie and tryin to outrun a heat seeking missile
silk hearth
i dont find lernie that bad compared to hades
still vigil
nah it be the FO2 elite witches that be doin me in
rare tusk
Those are pretty scary as well
cunning ibex
from online sources it seems most of the EM3 is harder focus on Asterius
with most agreeing that Theseus becomes much less of an annoyance with EM3 on
silk hearth
he only gets a spin no?
still vigil
god help you if yer melee
cunning ibex
from teh wiki
cunning ibex
he gets a combo, shockwave on leap, and Bull rush is faster. Then the spin
still vigil
so bein melee is just...
cunning ibex
but imma be honest
silk hearth
oh cool
cunning ibex
Theseus is kinda a build check for me. I'll lose a DD if i'm not careful
for EM3 I havn't lost a DD since i first turned it on
silk hearth
havent turned EM3 off so i didnt know
cunning ibex
at this point I'm the same way with EM1
silk hearth
its hard with FO2
cunning ibex
I dont exactly know whats different beyond the sisters showing up
cus i never turn it off
opal lodge
HL5 EM3 means you cant really make any errors
CP just means you have more time to make those errors
still vigil
putting them together is a skill and build check fer yer life
still vigil
HL5 EM3 means you cant really make any errors
@opal lodge me on my 25th try on 32 heat with gilga
still vigil
i dun mind dc2 if i have a DoT build
silk hearth
dc2 is bad if u atk slow
balmy portal
EM3 Theseus is conditionally easier; it really depends on the weapon imo
silk hearth
i dont see how more hp is comparable to fo2 cos its really hard to get hit without fo2
yea true
gray shore
EM3 Theseus is conditionally easier; it really depends on the weapon imo
@balmy portal I don't find EM3 Theseus threatening at all. It's literally all on Asterius
gray shore
His chariot is so telegraphed and avoidable
still vigil
more hp = more time to make mistakes and more damage needed to take out really problematic mobs/bosses
gray shore
and because his split is 1/3 hp you can generally just all in during his second phase
balmy portal
some weapons I have a hard time properly hitting chariot
balmy portal
^
gray shore
Yeah but
cunning ibex
Theseus's only purpose is to be annoying
balmy portal
I do think EM3 is out of line for its heat value, for sure
cunning ibex
like dude is just a gloried room hazard in EM3
still vigil
30% hp may not seem much, but when you combine that with armored enemies with perks or a very grumpy dad....
gray shore
hard for 4 heat
balmy portal
yeah
still vigil
on EM4...
balmy portal
EM4 is way harder than any other 4 heat I could put together
gray shore
despite it being an entire 4 heat
cunning ibex
i dunno about EM4
gray shore
EM1 legit spike if you're not just dps crazy, EM2 makes lernie a real fight unless again you're just dps crazy, EM3 actually makes game easier. EM4 is hard even naked and then insane when you have everything stacking
cunning ibex
i beat it first try, but maybe i just had a good build
still vigil
also CP2 with TD....
balmy portal
EM2 isn't really harder
just don't stand on lava
I mean; I kinda have to pay attention last phase instead of not?
still vigil
the one atk i have an issue with on em2 is the slam
cunning ibex
I find tisiphone harder then EM3
gray shore
The map is more constricted, that in itself makes it actually a real fight
cunning ibex
as a whole, not just EM3 by itslf
gray shore
it's not hard in itself, all things considered
but lernie without EM2 feels like the easiest thing past chamber 3
balmy portal
part of what makes tisiphone hard is not having a good combo set up yet
cunning ibex
i find tisiphone hard for two reasons
-
her whip attack is very fast and very long.
-
her bullet burst can be hard to dodge phase 2 and 3
still vigil
part of what makes tisiphone hard is not having a good combo set up yet
@balmy portal tries to aim fer ME build but doesnt have it by the time I meet her
cunning ibex
man picking up Talos again i gotta say
I think i just like Talos the most.
the special makes it a very nice combo
plus Poseidon special makes it a very nice yoyo
still vigil
wait wave makers can appear in tartarus miniboss fight??
balmy portal
the secret to fighting Tisiphone is... use a ranged build >..
still vigil
cries in malphon
balmy portal
I know, right
alternatively
just get a deflect on something you can spam
and laugh no matter which fury you get
still vigil
one day i hope games generally find the balance between melee and ranged weapons
balmy portal
Hades does pretty good balance between them
in general, it's a hard problem
and very context specific
still vigil
yes, but it's a problem majority of games that possess those two options(or some mix) have
balmy portal
that's because it's hard
still vigil
ik
balmy portal
I mean
still vigil
which why i said i hope