h1-builds-and-combat

[gray shore]

people see the same words, differently

[primal hazel]

Nah that's the asanine stuff in language

[gray shore]

asinine huh :P pulling out the big words

[primal hazel]

That creates the whole perception of terms and word issue

[gray shore]

have to google it lul

[primal hazel]

And the meaning behind it

Like gender terms swears etc

It opens a hard to discuss topic because there's so many and rarely any "right" ways to perceive it imo

[gray shore]

I feel like we should continue this in another thread

or dm

we're veering very far from GY

your choice tho

[primal hazel]

Sure just dm me lol

I'm doing a run rn tho

[gray shore]

don't worry so am i

[primal hazel]

Aight then hmu

[gray shore]

who do you take me for

talk after gl

[primal hazel]

Idk a talking rose

[snow vapor]

Soo

my second clear I'm only getting Aphro boons naturally

4 in a row, had to buy a Hermes

is this normal?

[primal hazel]

🇷 🇦 🇳 🇩 🇴 🇲

[snow vapor]

ah

[vagrant olive]

3rd time fighting hades he was at heccing 5% when I died

on the 2nd phase

F u dad

and your lazers

[primal hazel]

No dad good

[vagrant olive]

ik know he good

but I mad at him

[primal hazel]

Yk in his second phase of his second phase if you stand close enough to him

[vagrant olive]

I was - this close

[primal hazel]

You won't get hit

be brave

[devout ether]

Or just get behind the pillars

[vagrant olive]

Im too slow

are you sureÇ

[primal hazel]

If hades is close to the pillars the collision is jank sometimes

[vagrant olive]

I can just stand right next to him when he lazers me

[primal hazel]

100%

[devout ether]

You get a LOT of time between when the spears come up and the laser starts

[vagrant olive]

ok

[primal hazel]

That's how I play against hades

[vagrant olive]

I'll try that

the thing is

I get exhuasted when the 2nd phase start

[primal hazel]

Everytime I see him charge up the 360° lasers I instantly hug him

[vagrant olive]

so my concentration just drops at a 90% angle

ok

[primal hazel]

You have to be careful with attacks that out you backwards a bit tho

[devout ether]

Everytime I see him charge up the 360° lasers I instantly hug him
@primal hazel Unfortunately this stops working at EM4

[snow vapor]

I hide in the upper left when his lasers go off

[vagrant olive]

whats EM4?

[devout ether]

Dont worry about it

[vagrant olive]

ok

[primal hazel]

Fair

I'm still afraid of em4

[devout ether]

I never turn it off

Too much fun

[primal hazel]

Flex somewhere else xD

"flex"

[devout ether]

I dont always win! But it just feels better ya know

[vagrant olive]

well then, gonna do homework before I got back to hell

good thing Thesus is getting a tad bit eaiser now days

[primal hazel]

See ya soon

[vagrant olive]

beat him 2 times in a row suprisingly

[primal hazel]

You'll love em3 Theseus

[vagrant olive]

that's.. yeha probably. im gonna die soon lol

[primal hazel]

Whoa wait is dio in discord again or who is bouldying me

[devout ether]

He's always with us

[willow fossil]

[devout ether]

In our hearts

And our wine

[willow fossil]

[primal hazel]

At least I'll always know when you're lurking

[willow fossil]

"who is bouldying me"

lmfao

[primal hazel]

Well that's the official term

[devout ether]

[snow vapor]

7 aphro boons now

lol

[primal hazel]

Be happy

[snow vapor]

kinda digging this build tho

Mainly because I have the inflict weak = 15% chance charm build

I mean, I have weak as my attack and charm is already my call so just gotta bully everyone into submission so I can explode them with my bow

[willow fossil]

a lover not a fighter

[snow vapor]

yes

[primal hazel]

Imagine playing rama with charm

[snow vapor]

it's not rama

I'm using Hera but saving blood for Rama

[primal hazel]

Well I wasn't trying to say you're playing rama

I just find the idea or playing charm with aphrodite attack on rama entertaining

[snow vapor]

Ah

Good idea tho

[primal hazel]

The funny thing is it wouldn't be

Cause rama attack is hella slow

[willow fossil]

Imagine playing rama with charm

[true spade]

Does anyone know if Fists's special hits slow enough for Zeus special to proc twice?

[pliant anvil]

I don't think it hits that slow

Maybe with demeter, but I'm not 100% sure on that

[true spade]

The sound and numbers definitely seem to be slow enough, but they might be staggered for effect and the actual hits are very quick

[primal hazel]

Usual fist special should

It's a 0.2 second cooldown

[true spade]

Really wish we could test boons/hammers against Skelly

Would make figuring this stuff out a lot easier

[primal hazel]

Hypnos dream world 2021

[snow vapor]

Theseus nearly screwed me up f

but I'm hopefully about to kill daddy for the second time

[true spade]

Go forth and commit patricide

[primal hazel]

Doing a charged skewer build
No charged skewer
nice

[willow fossil]

DARN IT DAEDALUS

[true spade]

Hmm, what boons do you want on a Hera with Poseidon cast build?

[devout ether]

We call that the Failed GY Run Special

[snow vapor]

so final boon before operation killdad

should i yolo and stack another aphro

or go ares

[primal hazel]

Makes me wish hammers were rerollable

[snow vapor]

my fate is in your hands

[primal hazel]

Aphro

[snow vapor]

k

[primal hazel]

Don't blame me

Best of luck

[half crater]

Hmm, what boons do you want on a Hera with Poseidon cast build?
@true spade grab arty attack to open up mirage shot and exit wounds, then you’re half set up for fully loaded as well

on any cast build you should take all the chaos gates you think you can get away with, ideally rerolling if you don’t get +% cast damage or extra bloodstones

lastly, there’s the option of grabbing dem somewhere to get blizzard shot

is that duo called blizzard shot?

it think it is

[true spade]

Yeah

[proven parcel]

it is

[half crater]

i was like, wait, is blizzard shot dem/ares?

[proven parcel]

nah

[half crater]

but no that’s freezing vortex

[proven parcel]

thats freezing vortex

[half crater]

i was right to begin with

[proven parcel]

yea

[half crater]

thanks

[snow vapor]

got past his first phase with 9 aphro boons

lol

now onto the second phase with one death defiance

[half crater]

i believe

you got this

[snow vapor]

i'm consistently interrupting his lasers

lol

he's at half hp

[proven parcel]

second phase is easier

imo

[primal hazel]

Same

[half crater]

yeah agreed

[snow vapor]

awwww

[half crater]

unless you get insta yeeted by a HS urn...

[snow vapor]

I got him so close but like the aphro boons weren't enough 😦

[half crater]

oof

[proven parcel]

the urns are rough

[snow vapor]

I got hit into an urn and then he just spun

[proven parcel]

but they're more managable than getting acrappy add spawn

cuz god dang

[half crater]

yeah it’s always the urns

[proven parcel]

those adds can really MESS YOU UP

[snow vapor]

yeah usually you can just walk around them

but like

i was at 54 hp lol

[half crater]

yeah depends on the adds; strongbows are the absolute worst lol

[proven parcel]

the urns and lasers you can hide behind

or get rid of

easily

depending

but have fun dealing with shades or some other annoyance with 9000K armor that constantly attacks

[primal hazel]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[true spade]

Ok, got through Tartarus with Hera+Poseidon, and managed to get Blizzard Shot. Problem with it: it doesn't embed, and the casts take forever to stop and drop the stones

I'd rather just do Dio cast with that, but I won't argue with 400 obols

Also I got quick reload, so embedding is even better

[primal hazel]

Well with hera you don't necessarily play for stuck

[proven parcel]

blizzard shot is great

my son

[primal hazel]

That's poseidons job

[proven parcel]

It has huge dps

but it def is slow

[pliant anvil]

depends on the use. Posideon is already great at clearing rooms

[proven parcel]

if you're going for speed

dont' get pos/dem duo

[pliant anvil]

for ST blizzard is potentially useful, minus the hydra

[proven parcel]

if you want burst

get pos/dem

cuz you'll deal like 3K min per cast

[true spade]

Yeah, I got the 50% cast from a well and melted Alecto in about 15 seconds

Most of which was me waiting for the stones to drop

I dunno, I guess I'll keep blizzard for now and see how it does in Asphodel

[pliant anvil]

I feel the other issue is bosses with high mobility, like hades or potentially the heroes

It does the damage, but it punishes you if you're not careful

[proven parcel]

Hades a lot of times is sedentary

Theseus and asterius it's hit or miss

Depending of you're em3 or not

And if they both want to be jerks

[true spade]

Nope, still only clearing 4 heat

EM2 and time limit

[proven parcel]

I cleared heat 15 with it

It wasn't a fast run

At all

30 mins

When my average is around 14 or so

But also tbf I was just doing it to do the duo prophecy

[true spade]

Blizzard Shot update: it really sucks when your bloodstones end up 4 dashes across magma

[vagrant olive]

Rapid shot + hermes = profit

[pliant anvil]

Maybe others have a different experience with it, but I feel like half the time hades is just teleporting away, which is why I called him a mobile boss. He CAN be stationary but he can just as easily be jumping all over the place.

[jovial harness]

Does he teleport?

[cyan mantle]

ahahahahah so uh
I got an epic Auto Reload + Exit Wounds + Fully Loaded

[jovial harness]

Pretty sure he just goes invisible

[cyan mantle]

I think at one point I had 15 Blood stuck in Hades

just pincushioning the guy

[primal hazel]

Well he sort of teleports

Since he starts going at you from a different spot

[snow vapor]

||I felt so bad beating Charon up||

||It was lowkey really easy with the spear though||

[jovial harness]

PSA for anyone relatively new in here, you can see his footprints when he's invisible

[proven parcel]

Phase 1 hades is hit or miss

[primal hazel]

This is a spoiler channel

[proven parcel]

He will be stationary but then void

[primal hazel]

So there shouldn't be any fairly new players in here

[proven parcel]

Or go immune

Phase 2 and 3 it's fair game

Go deep

[jovial harness]

I saw people in here saying they hadn't beaten hades

Everyone has different levels of Care about spoilers

[primal hazel]

Yes but that's usually a rarity

[proven parcel]

True

[primal hazel]

This is mostly an "advanced" channel

[proven parcel]

But this channel is mostly a we assumed you are near epilogue

[jovial harness]

Also you never know what little things people might not notice even after playing a while

[proven parcel]

Or least first clear +

[primal hazel]

If someone asks then answer yk

[snow vapor]

The Charon fight was dope tho

[primal hazel]

Charon is fun

[proven parcel]

It's a fun figjt

I am disappointed tho

[cyan mantle]

Man shoot, I'm now sad that I didn't have Aspect of Posideon on this run

[primal hazel]

Yo any of you guys got suggestions for a fun nemesis build?

[cyan mantle]

Can you imagine, filling up a boss with like 15 Cast Ammo with the combo I just shared, then dislodging ALL AT ONCE

https://imgur.com/VvWYlzI <= build

[primal hazel]

Man that hurts

[opal lodge]

does exit wounds actually do things with stygian soul? i was under the impression that it didnt

[cyan mantle]

Given how much damage Hades was taking when I wasn't even doing anything, it seemed to

like every so often he'd take a big fat CHUNK and I'd get the green "this damage was from Artemis" damage popup

but I don't know that for a fact and that might have just been Support Fire

[primal hazel]

Yo any of you guys got suggestions for a fun nemesis build?
@primal hazel ?

Cause just going athena was p eh last time

Guess I could go heart rend
But aside from that?

[snow vapor]

how do i tell which room the satyr sack is in

not tryna get poisoned

[primal hazel]

Random

[turbid needle]

nice one

[snow vapor]

and waste my dds

[primal hazel]

Every room except the first

[opal lodge]

im running a fun one that i kind of fell into on 32 heat rn

[snow vapor]

so it can be in a boon room

[opal lodge]

yes

[snow vapor]

lol

nice

[primal hazel]

It can be in every room after the first

[opal lodge]

it gets rolled after the 4th chamber from the 2nd tunnel on

[primal hazel]

🇷 🇴 🇳 🇩 🇴 🇲

[opal lodge]

vo1di im running

[proven parcel]

It's random

[opal lodge]

artemis attack, athena special, crush shot, athena dash, dio call

[proven parcel]

You can get it in the second room to the 6th

[opal lodge]

got splitting headache

[primal hazel]

Thx m8

[snow vapor]

lol

[proven parcel]

Nemesis id prob to full crit

[primal hazel]

Why yo name wird now

[opal lodge]

looking for deadly reversal, wave of despair and heart rend

[primal hazel]

Well as I said > Nemesis id prob to full crit
@proven parcel

[opal lodge]

i changed it to be in line with my other stuff

but yeah my whole build somehow fell into massive crits

splitting headache really helps since you build gauge so fast

deadly reversal should put me at around 60% crit after special

at least during a call

or 50% crit chance i think im doing math wrong

jk it's like 57.5

but its working solidly on 32 heat rn

[proven parcel]

Could do a me run for nem

👀

[primal hazel]

Thx m8

Splitting headache was more gauge on crit?

Or the zeus boon that empowers after call

Huh no it's the duo

But what does that have to do with gauge

[opal lodge]

what i meant is that you're building gauge fast enough usually to have splitting hedaache matter

the better duo to aim for is deadly reversal

and its the one that i was aiming for

[primal hazel]

Why not aim for all three

[opal lodge]

sort of just ended up with splitting headache too

[proven parcel]

Get them all

[true spade]

Hera+Poseidon update: finally sold blizzard shot, got mirage shot, barely killed Hades with 40HP on my last life

[primal hazel]

You don't need to explain general crit build for me lol

Thx tho

[opal lodge]

ok

heart rend may actually be better for low heat since it does more dmg

[primal hazel]

Was thinking you meant headache somehow interacted with the call besides the hangover stacks

Take
All
3

[willow nova]

whats the best weapon aspect for cast damage?

[true spade]

Achilles

[primal hazel]

Wut

[untold iris]

achilles gives 150% bonus cast damage

[true spade]

150% increased damage on your next 4 attacks or casts

[primal hazel]

Ik

But I prefer poseidon, hera or beowulf for cast builds

Instead of having to play achilles

[willow nova]

im mainly doing crystal beams

[primal hazel]

Raw damage ig

Well for crystal beams definitely achilles ig

[onyx parcel]

whats the best weapon aspect for cast damage?
@willow nova probably achilles

[primal hazel]

But that's on you for playing beams xD

[true spade]

I'm not entirely sure Achilles applies to crystal beams; if it doesn't, Eris would be next best IIRC

[onyx parcel]

Hera feels good to play also

[willow nova]

i got addicted to the beams man

so satisfying

[primal hazel]

They're fun

But a solid eh in power

[onyx parcel]

I avoid taking dio ares Demeter casts

Bc of boiling blood

It just seems like I would do more dps

With boiling blood

[true spade]

I think my second ever run to reach Hades was beams with Stygian Soul and two extra casts from Chaos

[onyx parcel]

Rather than casts

In boss fights at least

[primal hazel]

Scintillat feast

Casts are fun tho

But more difficult to get a good build for ig

[solid cairn]

They ruined guan yu

[lone lava]

Yep they killed it

[opal lodge]

so they must fix it in the next test branch

[solid cairn]

Let me dash strike

God damn it

[opal lodge]

tbh they could take away either the -50% health or the -50% health gains and it still wouldnt feel as broken as some other aspects

cough eris

[pliant anvil]

Waaaah? Noooo, eris is perfectly balanced as all things should be

seriously though, how has eris not been nerfed?

[solid cairn]

It was really good before lol

[opal lodge]

i feel like they should leave one of the GY debuffs but removing one of them would make it feel even just slightly more livable

feels like crap on high heat for me but someone else cleared 45 with it today so what do i know

[solid cairn]

Eris was still good

I thought it was underrated before

Eris has dominated the speedrunning scene

[opal lodge]

honestly in a world where eris got nerfed into the ground what would be best

[solid cairn]

Usually aspects are 2 out of the following: Fast, consistent, easy

[opal lodge]

dem fists?

[solid cairn]

Eris is all 3

[lone lava]

Probably nemesis or dem fists

[solid cairn]

It is not the fastest aspect, but it is so much easier to get a good run than anything faster

Nemesis pretty much requires double edge in Tartarus for WR

[lone lava]

Yeah hammer reliance sucks

I can see why poseidon sword is the choice in all weapons

[solid cairn]

Poseidon needs extra casts tho lol

Using eris has rotted my brain

I think I forgot how to think

[lone lava]

Hahaha

[solid cairn]

Actually I don’t think that

Because I can’t

I tried running with another weapon and I was a complete brainlet

[pliant anvil]

I've been tempted to focus on eris to lower my time, but I've resisted so far

[lone lava]

Hey you've quick enough times across the board

[pliant anvil]

I just use whatever is thirsting at the time

[lone lava]

We can't all be bablo

[opal lodge]

i use whatever is thirsting too

i want to just grind eris but getting sub 10 was enough for me today

maybe i try again to get lower tomorrow

[lone lava]

I used to do that until I got annoyed at it giving me the same things haha

Congrats on the sub 10!

[solid cairn]

I’m ballin

[opal lodge]

i just kind of get tired of using zeus keepsake --> poseidon keepsake --> dad x2

like

[solid cairn]

All I have is spending it on resources director

[opal lodge]

thank you @lone lava

[solid cairn]

I got a sub 8 recently

[opal lodge]

yeah i totally get what youre saying about eris corroding brain cells

[solid cairn]

I’m gonna submit that

[opal lodge]

yeah i saw thats sick

t30?

[solid cairn]

And then not play Eris for a long time

Yes

That was an 8:04 that’s top 30

[lone lava]

Just get sea storm in tartarus or something so you can go zeus -> dad ×3 to switch it up

[solid cairn]

You still want breaking wave

[opal lodge]

oo the real variety

ive been branching out

playin a lil beowulf

ykno

just to keep the blood flowing to the brain

[lone lava]

Beo felt like the clunkiest aspect in the game when I first tried it

Then I rebound cast

And learnt it

Very fun now

[snow vapor]

how do I save Orpheus and Eurydice's marriage

[solid cairn]

Still getting used to it

[snow vapor]

literally got the dialogue from nox

nyx*

went into admin room

[solid cairn]

this one guy has a faster time with like 8 aspects than I do with eris

[snow vapor]

scrolls

[opal lodge]

just keep playing it should show up as a contractor

is it bablo

[snow vapor]

o

[solid cairn]

His god damn Arthur time is faster than my eris time

Yes

bablo

[lone lava]

Probably want to ask in #h1-story-discussion @snow vapor

[opal lodge]

because bablo has a faster time on all 24 aspects than i do on eris i think

[solid cairn]

Lmao

[opal lodge]

which is kind of sad to think about

[solid cairn]

I think he is the best player

[lone lava]

I think so yeah

He can run high heat too

[solid cairn]

Vorime is a close second

[opal lodge]

tailesque is high heat jesus but yeah for speed its hard to argue otherwise

[solid cairn]

Yeah

Haelian is really good at both too

[lone lava]

Yeah we got a lotta good gamers

I'm content with getting all weps to 10:xx today finally though (except rail thats sub10)

[opal lodge]

thats my next goal now

[lone lava]

I think I might finish the bounties now

[opal lodge]

just wanna get faster at beo

[lone lava]

Then join the eris hype train

[solid cairn]

Shield is the only thing I don’t have sub 10 with

[opal lodge]

@solid cairn do you have any tips for being faster at nem? i legit just can't lol

just double edge n stuff

[solid cairn]

Pretty much

Double edge and don’t choke

[opal lodge]

i probably special more than i need to tbh

now that i think about it

[snow vapor]

I have enough blood for rama

should i do it

[solid cairn]

Special during downtime

Yes

[opal lodge]

do you usually go for heart rend?

[lone lava]

I think you should always special when your dash is on CD

[solid cairn]

I just get so stressed because I know if I fail I will have to reset

And it will take a while

[lone lava]

Yeah early double edge and heart rend to go fast

[opal lodge]

gotcha

i was doing deadly reversal because i am set in my ways

[lone lava]

Cin are you running dio or aphro on beo?

[opal lodge]

heart rend makes more sense

[lone lava]

Yeah aphro and arte are interchangeable on attack and special

[solid cairn]

Dio for now

[lone lava]

Artemis dash to go fast

[solid cairn]

Do Artemis attack tho

[opal lodge]

for those beefy crit chances?

[solid cairn]

Yes

[opal lodge]

also i dont know if you can get heart rend with just art dash

i need to check

i know you cant get splitting headache

[lone lava]

Can't

You need her on attack or special

[opal lodge]

oh but youd have the special yeah

ok

i see what you're saying

[lone lava]

I actually ended up having to put arty on cast

For my nem PB

Started with epic arty dash and got chamber 3 double edge

[opal lodge]

do yall run PS with beowulf?

[lone lava]

Natural aphro on special

[spice glade]

[lone lava]

But then I got epic aphro attack to I just took that too

[opal lodge]

lol

[lone lava]

And had to take artemis cast haha

[opal lodge]

how do you get any crit chance though? PP?

[lone lava]

It delayed heart rend

Nem gives 30%

[opal lodge]

oh right im dumb

LOL

[lone lava]

Still works good with big aphro base damage

Also I know you run PS for sure with infernal soul aphro beowulf

Since you force demeter for snowburst

Probably not on stygian dio beo though

[opal lodge]

i guess it doesnt work as well with stygian dio yeah

[proven parcel]

Ps I prefer 99% of the time

Unless I'm doing a zeus run

[lone lava]

I actually run FF by default

[proven parcel]

Which means I'm just doing zeus and w.e random crap boons

[lone lava]

And rarely take PS

[proven parcel]

Ps Is good

[lone lava]

Unless my core build has 2 natural curses (not t2 boons like jolted or rupture) I don't run PS

[proven parcel]

Eris I run ff tho

Cuz I really only need zeus and anything else is a bonus

[opal lodge]

same tartarus just kinda sucks unless i get 2 T1 curses

also i discovered something weird

if you use hades call after your charge before your cast deploys

[lone lava]

I just find it's not worth diverging from my build or looking for stuff like dio/aphro/dem dash to force PS

[opal lodge]

the +100% applies to your cast

for beo

[lone lava]

But both work

[opal lodge]

sorry fixed wording

but yeah

[lone lava]

Ah thats sick

Good to know

You know about the 100% lasting the full 2 seconds even after you break invisibility too right

[opal lodge]

yeah i just always forgot to do it before charging

🙂

so i guess now i dont have to remember

[lone lava]

Seems easier to call mid charge anyway

I love oneshotting p1 hades phases with beowulf

Ahhh if I wasn't going to bed I'd do a trippy flare run right now haha

[opal lodge]

that was the same though i had yesterday and then i just did it anyway

[solid cairn]

I'm gonna do a 32 heat run with beo after this hades break

Dash strike dragon rush combo is fun to do

[opal lodge]

i tried one earlier today and got cucked by chaos

gave me 0 stones

[solid cairn]

Infernal soul dio works

[opal lodge]

i even got PP and support fire in tartarus

and saw 0 artemis for the rest of the run

it was sad

yeah im just not used to stygian getting messed up that badly by rng

[solid cairn]

I used to hate Stygian soul

[lone lava]

Rip thats the worst feeling

Setting up for fully loaded and never seeing her again

[solid cairn]

Hourglass + Prometheus stone?

[opal lodge]

i need the acorn because i am bad

probably shouldve taken easier pacts and just done hourglass though

[solid cairn]

Did you see any stones though

[opal lodge]

no

whenever i need it it's just the stygian shard

taunting me

with that name

[solid cairn]

I probably should not jump into 32 heat with an aspect I’m not great at

But it’s good practice

[opal lodge]

reminding me of all my poor choices

yeah i jumped straight into 32 with hades aspect after not using it for like 100 runs

didnt go well

20 heat is good practice though if you turn on the pacts that make 32 heat hard

although i guess 32 heat is also good practice for 32 heat

[solid cairn]

I did get to Styx one attempt though

[opal lodge]

[lone lava]

My 32 clears felt pretty free cause I took the safe aspects where ever I could

40 seems like it'll be a fair bit harder though 😓

[sly bear]

It looks like thunder flourish make one lightning bolt per arrow with the bow special

Is this intended

I also have the charge hammer powerup for it, don't know if it affects this

[spare scaffold]

I see nothing wrong with that?

one thunderbolt per damage instance

most evident with Zeus shield

[lone lava]

@sly bear there is a 0.2 second internal cooldown per enemy for thunder flourish

[unkempt pagoda]

^

chiron strikes too fast to get anything more than 1 bolt off

same if you’re trying to shotgun with zag bow

[ripe glade]

I'm currently at Eurydice, been lucky with the build run and been offered all epics.. if I choose Ambrosia Delight.. will I get 2 Legendary boons?..

[true spade]

Yes

[ripe glade]

sweeeeet

[true spade]

Er, two heroic

[ripe glade]

ooo

ok

[true spade]

Forgot Legendary is something else entirely

[pliant anvil]

whew, I HATE cursed slash. Glad I finally got it and can complete the prophecy.

[ripe glade]

Yeah Heroic.. that's also a win 😄

[untold iris]

legendary and duo boons are special

normal scaling goes common, rare, epic, heroic

[ripe glade]

ah sorry.. yeah my bad...

yeah.. Curse of Pain now heroic... getting a lucky build this run.. :D..

[willow fossil]

Eurydice giving legendaries sounds like 💪

[ripe glade]

yeah.. I meant Heroic... but yeah... usually always go 4 poms most times with Euydice most times.. but since I have all Epic boons.. considered the other option.. get the Heroic's

[jovial harness]

wait doesnt rare crop take you beyond heroic

[pliant anvil]

I don't think there is a rarity beyond heroic

[jovial harness]

o ok

[willow fossil]

Heroic is the highest rarity

Legendary is another tier

[jovial harness]

i dont get why people say rare crop is a 'meme', you either have enough time left in the run for it to be worth, or you dont

[willow fossil]

Thats exactly why

And isnt the time

[lone lava]

Styx rare crop pog

[untold iris]

its also kind of risky at higher heat because you cant sell it

[lone lava]

Run saved

[willow fossil]

But the rng in the boons it picks

[untold iris]

so if you take it early and dont get enough boons you might be forced to sell something that will kill your run

[willow fossil]

Rare crop divine dash 😩

[jovial harness]

because of the purge a boon thing?

[untold iris]

yes

rare crop also doesnt count for family favorites

for what its worth

[willow fossil]

I always found that weird

[jovial harness]

obviously once you start taking that pact you have to plan your boon choices around it

that one plus the one where you only get one choice per boon sounds 'fun'

[willow fossil]

Thats the only reason why I still play this game

[lone lava]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/769786015157583882/unknown.png?width=785&height=442

Did someone say rare crop divine dash

[willow fossil]

Lmfaooo

[lone lava]

That 32 clear featured some of the best boons the game has to offer

[barren otter]

that sweet 16 dash damage

[willow fossil]

👌

[lone lava]

Including Lasting Consequences 4 Nourishing Soul which does literally nothing, really carried the run

Let's not forget the plus one base cast though

[willow fossil]

Lmfao get memed by the fates

But why tho, youre not using approval process

[lone lava]

Hahaha

[willow fossil]

Thats normally what my runs look like, but I do run ap2

[lone lava]

I literally just got unlucky on the rare crop selection and then got terrible choices

The other chaos curses were too bad

[willow fossil]

But seriously, 16 dmg dash 👌

[lone lava]

Very 👌

Didn't even matter anyway

Don't need more than ME on fists

[willow fossil]

I mean you won

[lone lava]

Yeah ths 16s must have added up

[willow fossil]

Little by little

💪

You did have merciful end

So it was doing a lot

[full nova]

hmm debating which fist aspect to take out

now that I have a crap ton of titan blood

[lone lava]

Demeter is considered best by most

I'd rank zag aspect second especially since it's only 5 blood to max

But they're all good

Its up to your preference

[untold iris]

demeter, zag, and talos are all good because the core gameplay of fists is mashing attack and dash over and over again and all three fists can do that equally well

[jovial harness]

artemis greater call does more than i thought

[willow fossil]

It does quite a lot yes

[wide hornet]

Best god/goddess for cast builds?

[opal lodge]

i like athena cast

speedrunners use zeus cast

or poseidon cast sometimes

dio/aphro cast for beowulf

you could go for hunting blades if you dont care about speed or optimal builds and just want something that looks cool and feels fun

[wide hornet]

Sorry, how does dio/aphro synergise?

[opal lodge]

i meant one or the other

dio cast with beowulf is usually run with stygian and you go for a chaos gate to get an extra stone

[wide hornet]

Also what is beowulf?

[opal lodge]

you want to get mirage shot from poseidon/artemis and maybe force fully loaded from artemis but that is hard

shield 4th aspect

[willow fossil]

Last aspect for shield

[peak panther]

Also the hero of an epic Poem

[wide hornet]

I don't have any of the hidden aspects unlocked, still trying to figure them out

Ive done everything to unlock the 4th for spear, but no luck

[willow fossil]

F

Slap achilles

[opal lodge]

you're sure youve put the titan blood into 5 different nonzag aspects?

[wide hornet]

Yup

[opal lodge]

dang

random btw

[celest bay]

I should've searched this channel Just passed up on Delta Chamber with Artemis Dash, Athena Attack, and +deflect damage on Exagryph Rail with seeking

[opal lodge]

not the end of the world

delta chambers good but its not like miles ahead of every other attack hammer

just better

doesnt make a difference on like

hestia aspect

for example

[vagrant olive]

What is heat

What is this i dont like it

[opal lodge]

LOL

[celest bay]

I ended up taking Rocket Bomb instead... zzzz

[opal lodge]

congrats on your first clear chestnutpie

rocket bomb is one of the best hammers

[celest bay]

I just haven't even cleared yet so

[vagrant olive]

Thx but what is this torturish thingy

[opal lodge]

now its time to clear but harder

[celest bay]

yeah but so much synergy.... deflect everything...

[opal lodge]

join usssss

[stark ore]

Take Tight Deadline 1, it's easy and lets you prepare for timers in the future

Hard Labor or Jury Summons are good picks too

[vagrant olive]

Is 59 even possible?

[celest bay]

Divine Protection is good right?

[stark ore]

Is 59 even possible?
Technically

[cunning urchin]

Sure.

[stark ore]

Divine Protection is good right?
Yeah it is

[vagrant olive]

Has anyone beat it on 59?

[opal lodge]

55 is the highest thus far

[willow fossil]

Isnt 63 the highest?

[vagrant olive]

I turned it all up

It;s 59

[opal lodge]

i meant 55 is the higheset that's been cleared

[stark ore]

You're missing out on a condition that grants 4 heat, you'll get it later

[vagrant olive]

Oh.... um.,,

[opal lodge]

63 is the highest possible the last thing you have to buy from contractor

🙂

have fun

[vagrant olive]

Well what do I do with it

[cunning urchin]

64 in Hell mode.

[vagrant olive]

I want the other rewards, but i also really like the bow

[opal lodge]

turn it up for a fun challenge 🙂

[stark ore]

Get bounties and have "fun"

[vagrant olive]

Ok

[opal lodge]

you get 1 reward per heat level you havent cleared up to 20

[vagrant olive]

I died in the 2nd chamber lmao

[north carbon]

Hey does anyone have any suggestions on a Hera build? I’m trying to figure out which cast I want to get but it’s rough

[cunning urchin]

Flood Shot + Mirage Shot is great.

[north carbon]

Which one is mirage shot again? Is that athena?

[stark ore]

Mirage is Poseidon + Artemis

[cunning urchin]

Poseidon + Lady Artemis.

[north carbon]

Ohh yes yes yes

[vagrant olive]

Welp imma try all weapon to get diamonds first

[north carbon]

I was thinking of using flood shot but I didn’t know if it would suck

[cunning urchin]

It's really good because AOE.

[opal lodge]

flood shot + mirage shot is definitely the way to go

[stark ore]

Basically Tempest Strike but good

[opal lodge]

that or parting shot + athena cast but

[north carbon]

I’ve heard trippy shot is good too but it just takes a long time to get the casts back

[opal lodge]

thats why you go stygian and pray for extra casts

[stark ore]

Tried Hera with Trippy, it's good but Flood is probably better

[north carbon]

That was my next question hahaha

[opal lodge]

dont do it for any other cast though

[vagrant olive]

How should I start with heat?

[opal lodge]

just try it

its fun

[vagrant olive]

K

[north carbon]

@vagrant olive I just did EM1 and it was pretty ok

[vagrant olive]

Whats em1?

[stark ore]

Tight Deadline 1 is your best bet, if you're going at a remotely fast pace then it's free heat

[north carbon]

Extreme measures level 1

And yea tight deadline is good if your times are less than like 30 minutes to escape haha

[vagrant olive]

K

Ty guys

Oh u,

40 averge here

[north carbon]

Probably still doable anyway

[stark ore]

Working your way up with heats is tough, but it can be done

[opal lodge]

your times get better and your runs get easier after first clear

[vagrant olive]

Wait

[north carbon]

Cause u get 9 minutes per underworld region but it stacks so if you finish tartarus with 2 minutes you get 11 going into asphodel

[vagrant olive]

I dont get anything if i dont escape

Um

[stark ore]

I personally recommend starting off one heat at a time then making gradual jumps like 5 to 8 heat and 20 to 25 heat

[vagrant olive]

This feels like a steep diffifulty curve

Ok

[willow fossil]

Cause it is

[north carbon]

I’ve been going up one heat at a time

[willow fossil]

Thats the whole point of the pact of punishment, make the game harder

[north carbon]

And @vagrant olive you get the bounties still but if you do that heat again you just don’t get the bounties you already got

[vagrant olive]

But then couldn’t i just do 59 die and get the bounties?

[north carbon]

You get the darkness (which can actually be really helpful if you have the dark regen on)

Well u gotta beat the bosses

[vagrant olive]

Also where can i see the bounties

Oh

[north carbon]

It’s the titans blood, diamond, ambrosia, then titans blood again

[willow fossil]

In the pact

[north carbon]

Yes yes

But yea honestly with heat just try different things, I just tried Chiron with EM4, forced overtime x2, and tight deadline x1 (17 heat) and got my butt kicked so I’m trying something else (that’s why I asked about Hera haha)

[stark ore]

I usually don’t take FO2 unless it’s 32 heat or higher tbh

[still vigil]

so

i need a teeny bit of assistance with fists

[vagrant olive]

The time limit thing really stresses me out lol

But i think i wanna get use to that early on

[mossy light]

things to get used to are extreme measures 1-3

[stark ore]

It’s no worries, the time left over from the previous area adds onto the next

[vagrant olive]

Oh

[mossy light]

and convenience fee

[still vigil]

what's a build that works decent on crowds but great on bosses that's not ME-focused on mid heat (32-ish)

[mossy light]

cast builds? blizzard shot?

any trippy duos?

[still vigil]

you can do casts builds with fists?

ooo

[stark ore]

Demeter aspect with Drunken Strike and Deadly Flourish is my go-to usually

Talos gives cast damage on magnetized foes so yeah

[mossy light]

you dont get fist bonuses but they work well

[still vigil]

icic

[cunning urchin]

Talos with Flood Shot + Mirage Shot and aim for Blizzard Shot after that.

[still vigil]

i must try these

[mossy light]

problem is at 32 heat youre gonna have a harder time getting duos if you took inspection

[still vigil]

inspection?

[cunning urchin]

Well, don't take RI.

That's a bad idea anyway.

[still vigil]

i dun think ive ever taken that tbh

[opal lodge]

talos feels so strange

[mossy light]

huhhm

[opal lodge]

why does it buff cast

[mossy light]

so you can use curse of drowning or something?

[still vigil]

id rather everything kick me in the teeth instead of me gimpin myself

[turbid needle]

Or Freezing Vortex.

[stark ore]

Talos + Curse of Drowning seems kinda good actually

[mossy light]

ive never had a good curse of drowning build

[still vigil]

hmm

[stark ore]

Personally I can never use Curse of Drowning, the damage is just too low for me and you miss out on the range and knockback

[still vigil]

guess it's time to try gilgamesh with curse of drowning then

probably will be terrible but eh

[mossy light]

i struggle to cast it at the right time, it wears off by the time i close in melee, or if i cast in melee i get hit

@still vigil that sounds painful

[still vigil]

anything past 30 heat is painful so might as well be a full on masochist @mossy light

[mossy light]

EZ life on hell mode for me. imma get my bounties and chill with EM4 or something

maybe FO1 EM4

[cunning urchin]

HL5 FO2 EM4.

[still vigil]

is hell mode that much different from mid-high heat?

[willow fossil]

Not really

[mossy light]

aside from the random shotgun deaths, you get used to hell mode

[willow fossil]

It does get rid of the invulnerability shield after getting a big hit

[mossy light]

and lasers suck

[still vigil]

when do they not suck

[cunning urchin]

Not being able to turn off JS etc. is very noticeable, too.

[willow fossil]

Yeah js is a bit harsh

[mossy light]

eh, you get used to it

[still vigil]

okay max JS is awful feeling when i choose a melee build and dun have either Dio or Zeus on

[mossy light]

it made 32 heat bow easy

[still vigil]

get used to yes, but still feels awful

[mossy light]

its just 1 rank of jury, +hp, HL, and LC

you get used to it

[stark ore]

Imagine the poor soul who tried to run Hestia on max JS

[still vigil]

so due to my lack of really putting in time with the ranged weapons i lack perspective
is there an advantage melee weapons have over ranged?

[dry quiver]

Failing to get blizzard shot on my Achilles runs is starting to hurt me

[cunning urchin]

@still vigil nope.

[mossy light]

ranged are generally better?

[still vigil]

cause it seems that in most games balancin melee weapons is...

[stark ore]

Is Blizzard Shot good on Achilles? Never tried it tbh

[mossy light]

blizzard shot is good on everything, especially achilles

[pliant anvil]

any cast is good on achilles tbh

even basic cast is good

like, 125 base at max achilles iirc

[mossy light]

yep.

[still vigil]

oof

[mossy light]

the bow works as a melee and ranged weapon, and the rail has grenades which are high damage and allow you to stay mobile

[stark ore]

Yeah if you get an AoE cast then Achilles does wonders for crowd control

[still vigil]

i was hopin some expert was gonna be like "here's a secret about melee weps ya didnt know about! Developers hate this trick!"

[stark ore]

make melee weapon more damage, ranged weapon less damage

[mossy light]

melee... sorta has better aoe?

[pliant anvil]

I mean.... merciful end exists and works pretty well with melee

[mossy light]

bow is pretty single target unless you get doom on special

[still vigil]

but that's a very niche build not guaranteed

[pliant anvil]

but most melee weapons become cast playstyles

I think only fists are missing a cast aspect

[still vigil]

isnt talos the cast aspect?

[mossy light]

its not my fault casts are more fun than smacking people

[pliant anvil]

No, talos is a pull

[cunning urchin]

Merciful End is niche?

[pliant anvil]

I think ME is harder to set up

an optimal ME is like, 5 boons

[still vigil]

in my inexperienced opinion yes

if it aint 100% guaranteed to get and requires extensive set up, i think so 🤷🏿‍♂️

but i could be wrong as per usual

[cunning urchin]

You can get ME practically every run without too much trouble.

[pliant anvil]

It's pretty likely to get the base set up

[opal lodge]

requires 4 boons but is just too good not to aim for

[pliant anvil]

of deflect/doom/ME

[opal lodge]

ehh

[pliant anvil]

It's no harder than any other duo boon build

[opal lodge]

honestly sometimes i just suicide if i dont get athena in tartarus

[pliant anvil]

the issue is that is really shines if you get impending doom, and until you get ME, it's slow

[opal lodge]

its a bit harder than some duo boons because you need a boon that isnt required (ddash) to make it truly effective

[pliant anvil]

You need two actually

[still vigil]

Also Id like to be able to play melee weapons withot always aiming fer that like the ranged weapons

[pliant anvil]

But you can get the basic set up

[cunning urchin]

It's harder to get than other Duo Boons, but it's still not very hard to get.

[still vigil]

i like power and variety

[stark ore]

ME builds without ME are hell, I had a really good ME Zeus shield build set up but unfortunately I never actually got the duo lmao

[opal lodge]

you just need to get divine dash + the two prereqs and the duo

it still does respectable damage

[pliant anvil]

you want impending

[opal lodge]

without me

just feels sad

[pliant anvil]

it's a big increase

[opal lodge]

impending is huge

dire misfortune means almost nothing on fists

[cunning urchin]

and until you get ME, it's slow
That's not really true. Curse of Agony is already great.

[pliant anvil]

it's about as important as dash

[opal lodge]

impending is nowhere close to as important as dash but it is good to have

[still vigil]

but if ya dun get ME will the pre reqs still hold up?

[opal lodge]

like if i have a choice between ares and athena and i dont have dash im going athena all the way

they do

[cunning urchin]

Sure.

[opal lodge]

its respectable damage

not amazing but still works

[pliant anvil]

Mmm, I guess. ID is a huge increase, so I dunno if dash is more important

[still vigil]

this is...not reassuring but ill try goin fer it again

[pliant anvil]

I haven't mathed out the DPS though obviously

[mossy light]

ME is literally the second most picky duo boon to get. it only wants the attack and special slots

[opal lodge]

without AP or RI youd have to be pretty unfortunate to not get it if you simply do ares keepsake and athena keepsake

deadly reversal has the same requirements

[cunning urchin]

On Malphon, Curse of Agony is already the best Attack boon you can get for DPS. ME just makes it busted.

[still vigil]

hm

i have another question!

when focusing on hangover, i was doin okay with mobs but my damage fell off badly when I was fightin minibosses/bosses
how can I best maximize the dmg on bosses when usin dio?

[opal lodge]

thats kind of the problem with dio is he scales really poorly in elysium/vs bosses

[mossy light]

use dios aid.

[opal lodge]

could try to supplement with a duo like splitting headache

if you're doing a bow build

or low tolerance

[pliant anvil]

Dio's legendary can be handy IF you get trippy shot. Ares duo can help too

[opal lodge]

curse of nausea doesnt really make a huge difference imo

it's what

0.35 seconds vs 0.5 seconds?

[mossy light]

30% more damage is good?

works best on aid tho

[opal lodge]

thats assuming you have them at max stacks all the time

[pliant anvil]

yeah it's like 30% more damage regardless of stacks

if you have 2 stacks at .5 and 2 stacks at .35, the .35 still does more

[opal lodge]

it only changes the tick rate right?

[stark ore]

Yep

[pliant anvil]

which increase the damage yeah

[opal lodge]

so the number of ticks is still the same

the dps may be higher

[pliant anvil]

No, it's faster ticks

but same duration

[opal lodge]

but overall damage is still the same unless youre applying ticks fast enough to make a difference

[pliant anvil]

Again, no, it's the same duration

[opal lodge]

if it is same duration thatd be good

need to check

[still vigil]

so would it be best to take a dio call for bosses and one other form of hangover fer mobs?

[pliant anvil]

I would say so, but I also really like dio call a lot

[cunning urchin]

You only want one source of Hangover.

[still vigil]

huh?

[mossy light]

epic pom 1 hangover is 8*10/sec at max stacks

decent if you can apply enough stacks

[opal lodge]

new hangover stacks overwrite old ones

so if you have something like say

drunken dash

on top of drunken flourish

and your flourish applies more stacks

you could inadvertently overwrite the good stacks with the bad ones

[still vigil]

that sounds awful

[mossy light]

i mean, you can have a base stack applier and dios aid

[pliant anvil]

You'd just need to be careful to wait for dio's aid to wear off before applying more

[cunning urchin]

You don't really gain anything from attacking with Hangover once your stacks are capped, you should use a different move at that point and only use your Hangover attacks to reapply it when necessary.

[opal lodge]

@pliant anvil was right it is 4 seconds

[solid hazel]

@cunning urchin totally off topic, but here's some footage from a friend of mine doing a dodge run

[mossy light]

im not much of a fan of hangover myself, i just use trippy shot duo boons

[solid hazel]

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/787453473

[still vigil]

ah! so dio call is like a bursty move but with extra steps?

[solid hazel]

he has 98.4% if additive and 68% if multiplicative

[pliant anvil]

about the duration with curse of nausea? @opal lodge

[solid hazel]

and it looks a lot like 98% to me

[opal lodge]

about the duration of hangover in general

[solid hazel]

he gets hit 3 times in a hades fight without trying to dodge anything at all

[pliant anvil]

ah ok

[opal lodge]

i think it's a 143% damage overall damage increase for each stack

or +43%

[cunning urchin]

You'd just need to be careful to wait for dio's aid to wear off before applying more
You could do that, but you could also just get a different Call and still get the Hangover damage from your Flourish or whatever—or vice versa, use a different Flourish, so you can still use both.

[pliant anvil]

The difference is like, 11 ticks vs 8 ticks, so that checks out roughly

[opal lodge]

actually idk what it does with the last tick

probably cuts it off

[pliant anvil]

discards it I assume

[opal lodge]

its more like 37.5%

[solid hazel]

if I counted how many hits he dodged...I could do a Baysian probability calculation...but I don't think that's necessary

I'm like 99% sure it's additive

[opal lodge]

it is additive

this has been confirmed

[solid hazel]

oh who confirmed?

[still vigil]

so has anyone ever used hangover as a main damage source fer bosses? or do yall just let dio be supplementary unless yer usin trippy shot

[pliant anvil]

@opal lodge it is 37.5% more damage. But not just that, it's multiplicative since it's just ticking faster

[cunning urchin]

Crepes did. But it's good to verify the results. Thanks for the ping. https://clips.twitch.tv/KitschySpikyTomatoSpicyBoy

[opal lodge]

it's multiplicative on hangover damage

[pliant anvil]

well, yeah. That's what we're talking about

CoN doesn't apply to anything else

[solid hazel]

lol too bad I wanted the credit haha

[opal lodge]

ok

[mossy light]

@still vigil ive used dio as my main power against bosses but i dont really feel its effect unless im using it on the bow special against lerny or something

ive swapped to trippy and im much happier

[still vigil]

ahhh

[mossy light]

casts are better.

[still vigil]

ive never tried trippy shot at its fullest potential tbh

which leads into my next question

which casts synergize better with melee?

[willow fossil]

well crap, i thought it was confirmed not additive

[cunning urchin]

Phalanx Shot for melee.

[mossy light]

ehhhhh. they dont really synergize aside from maybe demeters casts

[pliant anvil]

yeah, if most of your damage is from melee strikes, look for utility

[opal lodge]

why phalanx shot

[mossy light]

you want something you can drop and enter the fray, and demeters are the only ones that last a while

[cunning urchin]

Because it deflects everything in your path, and you can just dash behind it to engage enemies.

[mossy light]

thats fair.

[opal lodge]

unironically you get true shot so you can pick up deadly reversal to supplement your ME damage

and you just never use true shot

[solid hazel]

also problem with demeter is it turns off boiling blood

[mossy light]

trippy is good, but you gotta recast it after 5 seconds

[solid hazel]

you want somethign that lodges

[cunning urchin]

I tend to pick Casts on melee just for Duo Boons, yeah.

[still vigil]

oof

[solid hazel]

I mean the +50% from boiling blood is probably worth more than any cast on a melee build

[mossy light]

boiling blood is overrated. pomming up a good duo cast does much more work

[still vigil]

so ranged is supreme

i cri

[mossy light]

a pom on trippy goes from 120 damage to 180

[opal lodge]

i picked up true shot this run to get heart rend and deadly reversal for nemesis lol

worked pretty well

still got 4 sacked

probably karma for trying to abuse blinding flash again

[still vigil]

blinding flash is fun

[cunning urchin]

I'd rather have Boiling Blood base cast than Trippy Shot on melee.

[still vigil]

may i ask why?

[opal lodge]

it lodges

[still vigil]

i never quite nderstood boiling blood

[opal lodge]

is what im guessing her answer will be

[cunning urchin]

Boiling Blood, and base cast has some minor homing. It shows you where enemies are off-screen, so you don't waste time.

[pliant anvil]

boiling blood causes you to deal extra attack/special damage to enemies who have your cast lodged in them @still vigil

and you can tell which ones do, because they have the cast icon above their health bar

[cunning urchin]

It also stuns enemies briefly when you engage them. Trippy Shot probably won't drop until you're already in the midst of things.

[still vigil]

whoa

that's soo cool

[mossy light]

im super suboptimal mind you, so you can get more useful crap outta nyaa. im just doing untimed hell bounties

[still vigil]

thank you all btw

[solid hazel]

happy to stand here while NyaaNyaa does everything

that's what makes me management material

[still vigil]

i tried trippy shot just now and that was cool!

[cunning urchin]

Nyaanyaa*

[mossy light]

youve got the school of speedrunners that like ME, and youve got weird off groups that like duo boons and cast builds

[solid hazel]

also getting names wrong makes me management material

raise your hand if your manager has every called you the wrong name haha

definitely me...

[cunning urchin]

I'm the Queen of Hades. I don't have a manager. 👸🏽