Gy is my soul weapon I can't let it down
#h1-builds-and-combat
proven osprey
red hound
cannot seem to get those 2 right
fossil compass
how does achilles work with demeter cast? increased damage for all the casts?
I mean damage instances
stark ore
Yep, as long as you cast while empowered then it'll get the damage
fossil compass
interesting, thanks
proven parcel
I still think Achilles is best spear
fossil compass
I might give that a try
proven parcel
But hades is prob second best
fossil compass
I've been struggling to get my spear runs
opal lodge
i think im just bad at spear
stark ore
Personally I've never done a dedicated Achilles run with Demeter because it's just a lot to set up but it can be done well
mighty ermine
achilles is likely best in a speedrunning context, but i still believe hades is most capable in terms of high heat
fossil compass
what's the setup for achilles spear at low (10+) heat?
opal lodge
god has spoken
mighty ermine
it's just more consistent
fossil compass
that doesn't rely on quick reload?
unkempt pagoda
apparently sigil
fossil compass
aha, because zeus cast bounces... so you can afford it getting stuck
I guess I get it
proven parcel
Zeus everything is pretty safe
stark ore
I usually like to take Deadly Strike and Slicing Shot w/Achilles. Try to get Hunting Blades before Theseus, other than that you're good
proven parcel
Tbf
opal lodge
zeus cast also kind of sometimes just ends up on the ground
and you can just pick it up again
if you're going for speed zeus cast is the way to go
unkempt pagoda
zeus cast is great bc it's got amazing crowd control, good base damage, and it has a tendency to just not lodge, which achilles loves
proven osprey
@mighty ermine I watched you 50heat Hades today, that was really good. You play a lot of spear ?
mighty ermine
i have a lot of experience with hades aspect, yeah
unkempt pagoda
(i think it's funny how achilles' signature weapon ended up being best as a wizard staff lol)
fossil compass
im just going for clears, I'm bad
proven osprey
I'll get to Hades once I cleared 40heat + with GY
fossil compass
so - cast until run out of bloodstone, then attack while wait?
proven osprey
but I don't know GY players 
proven parcel
Because they don't exist 👀
opal lodge
or go get your bloodstones
stark ore
My first 32 heat win was with Achilles, and I actually didn't end up using casts at all. Using casts is the best way to go but if you have a reliable attack then that's good enough
opal lodge
:^)
unkempt pagoda
gy used to be my main, back when it was first released lol
proven osprey
TEACH ME
spiral tree
Thoughts on deadly reversal with Arthur?
opal lodge
i somehow lost with achilles on 32 heat when i got tempest strike, flourish and sea storm all in tartarus
unkempt pagoda
did you know that the spin used to go through walls, not bounce on them?
fossil compass
thanks, glad to have experienced people to help in this discord ❤️
opal lodge
@spiral tree it's good
mighty ermine
ahh those were the days
proven osprey
Yeah I knew that
spiral tree
Better than smoldering air and Zeus aid? @opal lodge
opal lodge
yes
spiral tree
👀
unkempt pagoda
hot take: gy's exclusive hammer should've done that, instead of making the spin last longer
opal lodge
its better for arthur
north panther
Hrmnn, is attack speed supposed to also increase charge speed for bow dash attacks?
opal lodge
smoldering air + any cast is just broken anyway
proven osprey
Ok so no one likes GY, really nice
opal lodge
except maybe arty cast
stark ore
Deadly Reversal is solid with Arthur, Though I usually don't like taking Deadly Strike so I don't get it a ton
spiral tree
Divine strike is so good on Arthur since the hit box is so big and the aura slow let’s you reflect everything
I can’t tell which is more optimal
I can say that heart break strike and divine strike are both better than Artemis strike for Arthur tho
proven osprey
hot take: gy's exclusive hammer should've done that, instead of making the spin last longer
@unkempt pagoda Idk if I'd pick that hammer
stark ore
I prefer Heartbreak since there's less chances for crits due to the slow hits
unkempt pagoda
the play here is divine dash into deadly strike into deadly reversal
stark ore
Unfortunately you can't get DR with dash alone
spiral tree
Heartbreak strike has weak which is amazing with the aura reduction and gives highest damage boost in game
So if we run the numbers I don’t think anyone can argue heartbreaks strike is the best choice for Arthur attack
Most damage+most damage reduction
proven osprey
Yeah it is amazing
spiral tree
Plus smoldering air Zeus aid is guaranteed
stark ore
Unless you've been blessed by RNGesus then Heartbreak Strike is better than Deadly and Divine, yeah
spiral tree
However
I have to say
My best success comes with lightning rod
You don’t have to worry about anything
stark ore
If you're not running a cast build then Lightning Rod is just free damage
spiral tree
Just dodge and produce aura and win
Lightning rod is amazing
Easily one of the best boons period
fossil compass
how do you all not accidentally pick up the bloodstone for lightning rod?
spiral tree
Especially if you get the jolt damage and chance for extra lightning strike
stark ore
You just toss your casts somewhere you won't pick them up, then get a free source of damage
fossil compass
and dont you need 1 for boiling blood
stark ore
Chad strats: Greater Recall + Lightning Rod 
spiral tree
Zeus aid is too good
proven osprey
sounds good
spiral tree
I’m gonna stick to heartbreak strike and Zeus boons all day
Also if I get second wind with smoldering air it’s game over
mighty ermine
the range on lightning rod is actually pretty generous
spiral tree
Tanking hades to the cave all day
Yeah lightning rod is only bad in the giant rooms in Elysium
unkempt pagoda
how do you all not accidentally pick up the bloodstone for lightning rod?
lightning rod secretly reduces the range of pick-up
spiral tree
👀
unkempt pagoda
you need to be nearly on top of the bloodstone to pick it up
stark ore
Assuming you run Infernal Soul, just throw the three casts so they're spread in a way that covers almost the entire chamber
opal lodge
lightning rod basically hits the whole final boss map
stark ore
Demeter/Ares' casts are good since they can't get lodged in enemies
spiral tree
Also vs hades it doesn’t matter
opal lodge
its range is huge
spiral tree
Map is small
proven osprey
what do you take from artemis to get the duo ?
spiral tree
Because why not give yourself extra crit damage while attacking ?
proven osprey
Is not Aphro too good to pass ?
opal lodge
depends on the weapon
proven osprey
Yeah I was stuck on Arthur
spiral tree
Is there a way to have a super crit heavy build on Arthur ?
I haven’t found it
I find the duos to be too good
opal lodge
yes
deadly reversal
artemis attack + secondary artemis boons
you'll be crittin everything for 1 or 2K per hit
open heron
idk how to evaluate breaching cross
jagged roost
just finished A really strong beowulf run anybody got a good build for lucifier?
open heron
how good is shredding armor when like, the hardest fights are bosses?
stark ore
Zeus attack, Support Fire, Eternal Chamber
jagged roost
Zeus attack, Support Fire, Eternal Chamber
@stark ore this for lucifier?
stark ore
Nah, Lucier
jagged roost
yeah my bad messed up
pliant anvil
2 of the 4 boss do have armored adds @open heron
stark ore
You can also get Tempest Strike and try to roll for Sea Storm
jagged roost
should i go for zeus legendary?
stark ore
Yeah, Splitting Bolt is really solid
pliant anvil
So, it's handy but not vital
opal lodge
build works fine without
jagged roost
never knew his legendary was that strong
pliant anvil
I think that's an okhammer, since it adds to the base damage
It depends what boons you're running though
pliant anvil
right, but you can't always get that
open heron
i took breaching cross cuz that just seems like a buttload of damage
mighty ermine
it is
opal lodge
especially if you get it pre-elysium
mighty ermine
you can delete armor with it
pliant anvil
it's not a bad hammer if you run boons with +attack %
opal lodge
makes elysium soooo much more manageable
pliant anvil
breaching cross is really good though, no question
stark ore
Elysium and Styx are hell without some sort of armor breach, so Breaching Cross is pretty much an insta-pick in that sense
opal lodge
long knuckle is also a pretty good hammer
red hound
I dont remember but demeter fists gets the dash upper hammer
stark ore
It does, and it's insane
red hound
makes special hit for insane numbers
alternatively u can go for the charge
not as good but u know
sometimes hammers aren't good
stark ore
With Deadly/Heartbreak Flourish you can easily power through a boss
I personally don't like Flying Cutter, just feels off to me
red hound
did they nerf chaos again
mighty ermine
not any further than what 1.0 already did
quasi heath
So, for bows, is aspect of rama kind of the good one to go with?
Or zagreus dipping into artemis?
fossil compass
zagreus crits are only for attack
quasi heath
right, but it can help proc crit effects and free up a slot to do so
fossil compass
I found chiron to be the best aspect, that being said the 55 heat clear is on rama
chiron is very nice and easy to play, really high damage
quasi heath
Im lwo on bloods but I could try that one at some point. I assumed that rama was better for dmg
fossil compass
chiron is great if you can max out the aspect, otherwise.... it's not great
mighty ermine
rama does amazing damage, but it's not as easy to play as chiron, which also does respectable damage given the right boons and hammers
opal lodge
join the church of rama
quasi heath
So I immediately loved Rama, I esp getting around shield dudes by blowing up everyone else and stuff lol
but unsure what hammers and boons I should try n target
mighty ermine
but unsure what hammers and boons I should try n target
@quasi heath twin shot, triple shot, perfect shot, point blank shot, chain shot
opal lodge
zeus special is nice if you're doing special only
mighty ermine
all great hammers on rama
opal lodge
perfect shot is so much better than i gave it credit for
fossil compass
basically what tailesque said, if you're good like them go rama, if you're kinda bad like me go chiron
quasi fossil
what boons would you suggest to focus on while playing chiron?
opal lodge
i was doing twin point plank for a while but perfect shot + point blank feels nuts
fossil compass
chiron can carry you up to 16 heat easily
opal lodge
an easy setup for chiron is aphrodite attack dio special
quasi heath
Anything that might be OK w/ demeter? I am trying to max out her conversations for the epilogue haha
opal lodge
and you try to go for low tolerance
quasi heath
can I use her for special?
fossil compass
people like something like aphrodite/artemis special for damage
fossil compass
I went demeter special when I was worse, it's nice to have bosses be slow
and it's always free exposed
I went something like aphrodite attack for weak --> enemies deal less damage and take more damage
and chill for exposed for free 40% damage
you're perma exposing enemies
and get decay if you can, it's additional nice DPS
quasi heath
But all enemies on screen need it for it to work?
fossil compass
yes, but in boss fights where it matters, you only have 1 enemy
for normal fight chiron have enough damage to kill in 2-3 volleys
quasi heath
wait, what's exposed?
fossil compass
it's the 40% damage if your enemy have 2 cursed status effect
in this case, chilled and weak
quasi heath
Ah, yes, I run that
fossil compass
if you go with artemis special, you don't have that
but damage is more than demeter special
mighty ermine
ah, that isn't exposed; exposed is athena's T2 status
fossil compass
again, I ran it not for damage but because I like having slower enemies so I can dodge
ahhh my fault
quasi heath
Otherwise should I go for artemis attk and aphro cast or call and do heart rend?
fossil compass
artemis attack is wasted, no? artemis special is the way
opal lodge
that is privileged status
fossil compass
you only attack to mark them, special is your main damage
opal lodge
i would do aphro attack artemis special for heart rend on chiron bow
opal lodge
because then
quasi heath
I got confuzd
fossil compass
that's the one
opal lodge
you get to tag them with the weak
and then do your special
which now does increased damage vs weak
fossil compass
and you can get that boon from aphro that gives + damage to weak enemies
quasi heath
OK, so demeter special, and aphro attack then for rama?
fossil compass
and get the boon from artemis that gives marked status, you can chain crit on normal rooms that way
that was my setup when I was newer, it carried me a lot and allowed me to learn boss and enemy attacks
mighty ermine
demeter special isn't particularly amazing on rama special, but if you need demeter dialogue, it works
quasi heath
Right
fossil compass
ah that was for rama, my bad
mighty ermine
rama special doesn't really need a special boon all too badly, to be fair
shared suffering is strong enough on its own
fossil compass
idk anything for rama, I hated the one time I had to run that aspect for prophecies
quasi heath
oops haha
fossil compass
there's some good video on high heat people running it to see the gameplay
quasi heath
but any other boon for demeter is kind of crap
fossil compass
rare crop is good if you get it early
there's the decay thing again, works with the dash
open heron
then u use cast to apply exposed?
fossil compass
basically I use demeter for privileged status because chill is 8s
proven osprey
You have Tailesque here who's basically a god
mighty ermine
i'd also recommend deadly strike over heartbreak strike for rama. heartbreak is still good, but deadly is great
quasi fossil
another question - which heat modifiers you feel like are easiest to go with on low heat levels?
proven osprey
tight deadline
fossil compass
tight deadline, 9 min per biome on lv 1, then 7 min and 5 min
quasi heath
OH. I was trying to practice EM4 tbh
fossil compass
EM1 is free, EM2 can get bloody painful with the damn lava, EM3 is easy
devout ether
EM4 is hard but also a ton of fun
proven osprey
it's nice but I would recommend not practicing EM4 with all the other pacts
quasi heath
I have the most struggle with EM3 haha Hydra doesn't bug me too much
devout ether
I'd recommend always running it unless you're going for some wicked high heat
dusky nimbus
middle management is also easy for low heat runs
fossil compass
EM4 varies by weapon for me. on chiron it's free-ish, on fist it was a struggle
quasi heath
Sword I get murdered for sure
fossil compass
oh yeah middle management is great, you can also just dodge the miniboss fights if you want
quasi heath
fist I try to maim too much when I like to get hit by his darn sweep lol
dusky nimbus
yeah esp if u have cthonic companions it should be manageable
fossil compass
I think it was only the megagorgon room that became kinda painful, right?
devout ether
You also have to never ever take HS with EM4 unless you understand that athena's trap damage reduction is non-optional
quasi heath
but yeah anyways, yeah, I already have EM4 unlocked for this run so whatever 😛 I'm not trying for super high heat atm yet
fossil compass
any other miniboss that I'm missing?
dusky nimbus
yeah the megagorgon became alot worse, the rest.... honestly some became easier
proven osprey
barge of death is not that fun
quasi heath
well lets see what other gods'll spawn with this less than stellar demeter run lol
fossil compass
I guess there's the big voidstone at barge of death, but it wasn't bad
dusky nimbus
like the big butterfly ball , since it moved around u could also kill the spawning warriors easier since your chasing it anyway
quasi heath
Barge isn't too bad if you have something armour shredding I find
proven osprey
yeah
dusky nimbus
the doomstone became slightly harder
proven osprey
if you have
dusky nimbus
but defo manageable
fossil compass
well, don't do it with EM4, the minibosses get the bonus
dusky nimbus
oh the splitter also become quite manageable since it summons hands, so u actually have more oportunity to kill it quicker
whats EM and GY
dusky nimbus
ohhhh yea extreem measures honestly is good for low heat runs
just dont take the final rank until u really need the heat
quasi heath
Ummm... I feel dumb I just realized shared suffering only procs on attack lol
fossil compass
that's exactly why it's harder than chiron to use
dusky nimbus
even though I main the bow, i find rama quite hard to use
fossil compass
and because it's a skillshot to hit the bonus damage frame
again, rama if you're good, chiron if you're not
dusky nimbus
im sad the bow doesnt have many new hammer upgrades specific to rama
quasi heath
OK. So, demeter special, and now I have aphro in this run. So, uh, attack would be OK right?
lol oy vey, I have the epic running and the chaos +25 to rare and 2 refreshes with all normal. Feels bad xD
dusky nimbus
i used demeter special when i got the +4 arrows on my special with arctic blast, i didnt even need to use my attack much (on rama)
devout ether
im sad the bow doesnt have many new hammer upgrades specific to rama
@dusky nimbus Twin shot tho
quasi heath
Didnt realize it would proc with both arrows. neat
mighty ermine
repulse shot is pretty mediocre, but yeah rama does fine with most of the hammers it gets anyways
devout ether
Rama so good it dont need extra hammers
dusky nimbus
i havent used twn shot on rama
mighty ermine
you're in for a treat
dusky nimbus
but i guess i'll try it out
devout ether
Yeah the one rama hammer is kinda bad, but at least it takes down projectiles
dusky nimbus
but i love hera bow so much
devout ether
i havent used twn shot on rama
@dusky nimbus You are missing out
This one time I had it, I killed Theseus first by accident
quasi heath
gonna grab that if i get a chance lol
dusky nimbus
but i think hera is really struggling on higher heat runs
fossil compass
isnt hera bow just a worse beowulf?
quasi heath
OK, so, is there a way to "pick" which god poofs if you have all 4 and you equip a new trinket to force a new one in?
devout ether
No
dusky nimbus
i wouldnt say worse, they are diff weapons and play style to begin with
hera can keep stacks of chill/ hangover
for extra dmg
or spread doom everywhere
quasi heath
Whelp, at least I could still get a duo boon from the new one
dusky nimbus
beowolf cant do that
quasi heath
Hmmm I got sniper, perfect, and point blank w/ Rama... do any of these invalidate twin?
fossil compass
I might give that run a go now
what's the setup @dusky nimbus ? ares special, aphrodite cast?
devout ether
Hmmm I got sniper, perfect, and point blank w/ Rama... do any of these invalidate twin?
@quasi heath If you have three hammers.... you cant get more
quasi heath
as in those are my options right now
devout ether
Ah
quasi heath
rn just demeter special this was 2nd room
devout ether
Check the wiki I guess
I imagine sniper and point blank are not compatible with twin, since twin also reduces range
dusky nimbus
hearbreak strike, ares special, cuse of longing, trippy shot. either that or zues attack, ares special, scintillating feast, trippy shot or demeter attack, ares special, ice wine, trippy shot @fossil compass since i main hera....
devout ether
But might be wrong
proven osprey
you cant get sniper and twin/point blank
quasi heath
No bueno from point blank or twin
triple or sniper* sorry
But sniper makes 0 sense since it needs to be 675 away
proven osprey
point blank's good tho
quasi heath
Yeah, if I am near something it's cos im behind it and doing a love tap not a full power shot. So perfect shot makes more sense
opal lodge
the sniper range is just tough
unkempt pagoda
sniper is terrible
on rama
fix'd
fossil compass
aite thank pyro
mighty ermine
i mean yeah true lol
fossil compass
I assume trippy shot because it's 5s anyway?
proven osprey
we need sniper shot on Hestia
opal lodge
especially since you can just barrel stuff with point blank and dont have to measure out the range carefully
dusky nimbus
yea @fossil compass it just has so many good duo boons, along the way if u meet poseidon/ athena u might also get their duo with dionysus which are also very powerful, i use them for calls on the bow, ares call can work too
i tested this build many times and variations XD
fossil compass
cool, it's always fun finding new builds!
this game is so great lol
it might even edge out transistor...
I've definitely played it more
dusky nimbus
but just personally im a sucker for curse of longing on any weapon that works with it, the bow, shield, gun, gauntlets, maybe the sword
quasi heath
@fossil compass The only thing holding back for me is Hades' music compared to transistor.... I do not like darren korb singing in Orpheus's weird a-- falsetto
dusky nimbus
but merciful end might be slightly better on the shield and gauntlets
fossil compass
is it that strong? it's basically just 2x damage on doom right
or are we using it for privileged status
opal lodge
no merciful end is insane haha
fossil compass
transistor music is yet to be beaten by any other game, I'm still playing the soundtrack weekly 6 years after release
no, not merciful end
curse of longing
opal lodge
oh curse of longing just procs doom continuously on weak foes
fossil compass
I get merciful end is good, but I don't get why people are crazy about it
dusky nimbus
yes use privileged status, curse of longing constantly reapplies doom as long as the target is weak, the doom does half the damage every next applied but can be refreshed back to normal if u apply doom again @fossil compass
fossil compass
I had it on gauntlet. I had runs both with doom on attack and special, and still I don't get why people like it so much
mighty ermine
it negates doom's entire downside with decent play and dash-strikes, essentially
open heron
what would be a good cast w/ chiron bow and artemis special/aphro attack?
opal lodge
and divine dash?
mighty ermine
which includes the downside of impending doom, so you get huge numbers that just keep coming out
fossil compass
yeah, I had impending doom on special --> instant proc it
opal lodge
yeah impending can almost double your dps
the idea with it is you apply doom with one strike
dusky nimbus
oh dont use doom on both attack and special, the damage is not as much since it doesnt stack, the stack dmg isnt even that good
fossil compass
but it didnt feel like... as broken as people say
opal lodge
dash strike across them
fossil compass
no I don't use it on both, this was a separate run
opal lodge
and the dash activates the first doom while your strike applies another one
fossil compass
ahhhhhh
opal lodge
divine dash is basically a necessity even though its not a prerequisite
fossil compass
I see I made a mistake
mighty ermine
most of its broken-ness comes from also having divine dash, yeah
opal lodge
if you dont have divine dash i can see why it could be underwhelming
quasi heath
hmmm ok demeter and athena. If im lucky artemis and then i dont really feel like I Need to try and get any other gods prolly lol
fossil compass
I had two runs, one with talos with doom special. my play was special --> proc doom with attack
surreal wasp
What's good with chiron bow. I just tried it with like+275% damage on special from aphrodite and still felt like I was shooting toothpicks
fossil compass
the other one with demeter, doom on attack and... the one that increase doom damage if continously applied? and after 12 hit use demeter special for big dps with athena special
I'll give dash striking a go
dusky nimbus
for malphon i much prefer athena/ aphrodite/ demeter on attack, special is ares
the base dmg for those 3 gods are just very high
plus since malphon attacks are more quantity than quality, boosting the base dmg is good
and if u take athena or aphrodite, u can get merciful end or curse of longing
quasi heath
how do ppl feel about aphrodite's aid on em4? I sort of ... really love interrupting the lasers and (I think healing??) with charm
I know it only does dmg at max gauge but... seems to matter less for hard cc
dusky nimbus
eh unless u have other supporting boons to make your god gauge fill alot faster, there are better calls
i prefer charm from aphrodite's legendary
quasi heath
well thusly I have athena and demeter, demeter is ...... bleh (but is nice for clearing pots and some adds). And I dont super like athenas if I'm honest. Because it just feels like a worse Poseidon (or to lesser extent Ares)
dusky nimbus
wait what weapon are u talking about @quasi heath
quasi heath
this is what has spawned for rama
dusky nimbus
ohh rama, its not bad
quasi heath
and i like her charm if I had aphro special but its demeter already lol
dusky nimbus
u can always sell it
u dont loose poms on it btw
it transfers to the next boon that takes it slot
quasi heath
With sellign!? omg good to know they come back after selling. Well I like being able to get a bunch of stacks of ice is the main thing
I may swap if she offers heroic swap
cos it's just too good not to usually lol
dusky nimbus
oh ok
demeter call is only good if your doing demeter focused build
or if u have arctic blast
quasi heath
well this is real early on so who knows lol. I prefer aphro to demeter and athena
But if I get some demeter good stuff I may hope for a heroic swap for that too
dusky nimbus
really athena?
quasi heath
Like I said, feels like a worse poseidon lol
dusky nimbus
athena is like the get out of jail free card
quasi heath
I probably would utilize it pretty well in EM4's fight
but it also is just kinda boring xD
dusky nimbus
but i get what u mean
poseidon and ares do have better... supporting boons for their calls as well
quasi heath
Man I REALLY hate demeter's cast tho oof
dusky nimbus
demeter's cast honestly works well with aspect of talos
u can pull in enemies into your lazer
quasi heath
well, I am running rama this run so xD
I admit aphro/demeter's duo is sort of oddly fun esp if you can add chill to it and get extra casts, lasts forever,
rare kayak
id stick to artemis for dem cast tbh
red thunder
The Artemis Demeter duo is pretty fun. The faster tracking is very helpful.
rare kayak
aphro too fiddly for me
quasi heath
hoookay, zeus is the last one. I do like billowing strength with aphro call, since I usually use the non filled to break his big attacks and stop an "oh sh--" moment
Epic spawned of that, too... But a rare thunder dash is also present haha
rare kayak
athenas call can be good
red thunder
Athena's call has saved me a few times now.
quasi heath
ooo I have aphro and could get smouldering air too, it gets bonkers with the +dmg uptime
rare kayak
deflecting back attacks can do as much if not more damage than poseidon’s call + you get to attack for the duration
actually i dunno if uou get to deflect now that i think about it
at the very least its simpler to handle than others of its ilk
quasi heath
Poseidon isn't in my run with rama, I got zeus/aphro/demeter/athena. I if I get a heroic swap for zeus (and MAYBE athena) before I get smoldering air, I'll probably go that route
opal lodge
dio call is probably the best for raw damage if we arent counting dad
rare kayak
poseidon’s call still does mega damage and stacks well with boons at least
scales very well with poms too
one day ill get the pos call smouldering run
red thunder
Not sure how good it is, but I like Zeus' call a lot. Deals pretty good damage to anything near you.
rare kayak
all the calls are generally pretty good
opal lodge
zeus and dio call are both good for damage
rare kayak
except artemis, i dont really like hers
red thunder
Haven't used Artemis' call yet, it always looked underwhelming.
quasi heath
hmmmmmm... I have reflect attack w on rama and I reflected 0 of megs projectiles
rare kayak
demeter’s at least can whack the enemies you arent focused on
in elysium its very nice for slowing down archers chariots and hell wheels
opal lodge
ares' call is also pretty underwhleming imo
but i kind of just hate blade rifts in general so
red thunder
I like Ares' call. It can deal a lot of damage.
Requires you to get pretty close though.
quasi heath
with you there lil
rare kayak
ares at least comes with the ability to give you a bit more invul and positioning beyond the iframes of a normal call
about the only thing i really like artemis’ call for is that it charges faster
red thunder
I don't particularly like Aphrodite's call. It doesn't do much against bosses, and rooms with a lot of enemies are often over before you can use it.
quasi heath
OK disagree on bosses. It breaks last boss out of all his super dangerous attacks and hits any enemies around him
rare kayak
you can whack dad with it and iterrupt laser startup
red thunder
Really? Tried it on ||Hades|| and it did a whole lot of nothing.
opal lodge
aphrodites is insanely good against bosses
quasi heath
Stops the lasers, dunno if it stops healing
rare kayak
and on theseus and mino it can sometimes bug out their ai
sweet blade
Man, maim allows you to pull some serious "You are already dead"
rare kayak
which is really really nice
red thunder
You can interrupt his healing? Does that just cancel the second phase?
quasi heath
and they say hilarious stuff
rare kayak
plus on mino it stops his track
quasi heath
with thesus and mino
opal lodge
vs heroes EM3, if minotaur is doing his beyblade and you charm him his beyblade will shred theseus
its very funny
quasi heath
Mino remembers how much he hates theseus that's enough for me to warrant aphro call lol
opal lodge
he just absolutely demolishes theseus
rare kayak
that too, i got the dialogue on zag trying to split them up the first run after i used aphro call against the two of them, which is hilarious on a meta level
red thunder
I'll have to mess around with Aphrodite's call a bit more I guess.
rare kayak
plus aphro call pairs really well with smouldering
red thunder
I'm still fairly new, these are all early impressions.
red thunder
That sounds helpful, that's easily the boss that gives me the most trouble.
quasi heath
yeah im struggling with not dying on the 3rd phase of dad
opal lodge
still helps with the boss
rare kayak
one thing to note is that aphro call specifically does not break him out of lasers
opal lodge
if he cant move he cant hit you
quasi heath
so i think this was good call and i can get smouldering this run possibly
one thing to note is that aphro call specifically does not break him out of lasers
@rare kayak ummm it does
rare kayak
you have to target him pre startup
quasi heath
I do it all the time
red thunder
Well, lasers are easy to deal with, so that's not a problem.
quasi heath
Does it interrupt healing, because I dont know what else to do with that other than try to wail on him to mitigate
rare kayak
dunno
sweet blade
What is the timing required for Hermes' quick recovery boon?
rare kayak
honestly i dunno but if you arent dashing like a madman you arent playing the game imo
red thunder
When you say healing, do you mean when he heals to full and starts the final phase? Or does he just have some healing ability I don't recall?
quasi heath
I am trying out hermes plume + reflex... gonna see if I can do weird stuff
quasi heath
In EM4 in round 2 and 3 he sucks up the pots and heals a tooonn
red thunder
Oh, I didn't know he could do that. I usually just have a skull explode and destroy them all at once.
Typically unintentionally.
quasi heath
In last round there's always at least 1 perm one iirc
red thunder
Must have missed that.
quasi heath
well its hella dark lol not surprised
red thunder
That fight is brutal. I love it, but it's really hard.
rare kayak
oh the other thing
about aphro call is that full call is keepsake level damae
but usually it doesnt get that far because you spam it
also im pretty sure if you run any god other than aphro the aphro gang will beat u up irl
quasi heath
btw does plume and the 50% near miss dodge stack?
quasi heath
Yeah I am just trying out a bunch of nonsense and see how i feel about it xD
untold iris
dodge stacks multiplicatively
quasi heath
oh, so that's a very good hting right silly?
quasi heath
Oh wait, since it's just two things multiplying it doesn't matter
untold iris
so if you have 10% dodge and 30% dodge, then your chance of getting hit is (1-0.1)(1-0.3)=0.63
rare kayak
i dont know the math actually
untold iris
so 10% dodge + 30% dodge is 37% dodge
rare kayak
yeah additive would be better
quasi heath
Well I'm at 6 and 50. So there is a threshold where additive would be better lower, and the more you have it wins out
So rn I actually would have LOWER than 50% dodge until I get my % up then right? xd
untold iris
no
untold iris
0.5 * 0.94
with 50 and 6 dodge
gives 0.47 chance of getting hit
the equivalent of 53% dodge
cunning urchin
Crepes looked into it and found it's additive. https://clips.twitch.tv/KitschySpikyTomatoSpicyBoy
quasi heath
That... makes the most sense. Otherwise based on that calc I'd be lower than before lol, so instead I'd be at 56
cunning urchin
Wouldn't have been lower than before, but yeah, it's additive, anyway.
quasi heath
based on the calc above I would be at .47
quasi heath
hmmmm Rama hammer. Repulse shot, explosive shot, triple shot, and I got the perfect shot earlier. Uhhhh. Triple? Not as easy to aim as double but it could work
mighty ermine
triple
unkempt pagoda
perfect sounds like it'd make explosive easier, no?
like, in either situation, you're not pulling off many power shots anyways lol
mighty ermine
the charge time it takes to get to a power shot on explosive is... ages
power on triple is pretty straightforward
not to mention you can still do "regular" power shots from afar, with reasonable charge time
if you don't want to do perfect shotguns
mighty ermine
maybe then people will stop saying rama power shots are bad 
rare kayak
triple is pretty fun because u get to shotgun
cunning urchin
@quasi heath
gives 0.47 chance of getting hit
the equivalent of 53% dodge
rare kayak
alternatively triple chain might work? i swear the two side shots can bounce off walls to hit enemies
cunning urchin
But it's additive anyway.
mighty ermine
chain used to bounce off of terrain, but doesn't anymore
rare kayak
aww
mighty ermine
only bounces from actual foes
unkempt pagoda
why did they chainge that 😔
rare kayak
i remember having a run with anvil triple chain flurry
opal lodge
stop
rare kayak
zag bow tho
unkempt pagoda
triple chain was great on zag but its fun factor got cut in half when they made the change
i earned a 40 heat with divine flourish lucy, i think i deserve a name change
quasi heath
ok i got cold fusion so everything is coming up millhouse lol
rare kayak
i tried a run with chain skewer zag
honestly worked surprisingly well but the spear loves to spend time bouncing between the two furthest walls in the room
but when it did work it wasnt bad
unkempt pagoda
oh to be a 1-5 heat player again 
rare kayak
im still getting readjusted to fo2
unkempt pagoda
every time i see a lightning strike flurry jab build, i cry a little
rare kayak
i wonder why splitting bolt is different from normal zeus chain lightning
unkempt pagoda
it's chonkier
rare kayak
slower too
also i had a run which i threw by fishing LMAO
divine dash activated egg next to fish point
didnt trigger dd but brought me to 1 hp whoch is basically 1 dd lost
apparently zag treats fishing as more sacred than battle if he didnt even let go of the fishing rod OR lose a dd
cunning urchin
You should F10 things like that.
rare kayak
should I f10 though?
rare kayak
well too late for that
and also im too lazy
i mean i figured it wasnt a bug
just me being dumb
opal lodge
you can still f10
it sends your save
not just the screenshot
as long as you're still in the run
rare kayak
yeah that happened like
yesterday
at least 20 hrs ago
either that or before yesterday
my memory’s a little fuzzy
still vigil
Dio attack on gilga worked nicely on crowds but sucked cheeks on bosses
rare kayak
i should try going for curse of longing again
its overshadowed by me but i remember it being fun
still vigil
do it
still vigil
god mode exist
still vigil
idk either
rare kayak
probably ares attack and go for the doom stacking boon
special has higher base
but doom stack
works well since col halves doom every time
spring tree
Best hammers for shield? Aspect Chaos
marsh root
I am finding the adamant rail very difficult to use.
even with increased attack rate from Hermes I struggle to kill wisps in elysium before they rearm
it's very frustrating
opal lodge
@spring tree sudden rush
marsh root
can someone help a squid fool?
opal lodge
dashing flight is probably good but no one really knows
if you're using base rail your special is good
there are good rail hammers
for special
marsh root
so focus on the special?
open heron
i find getting a special hammer rly important
untold iris
the most important boon by far on rail is zeus attack
opal lodge
the special hammer could completely change your playstyle for rail
ionic lantern
The best thing about rail is that you can attack as you send your special out
open heron
and getting zeus attack boon
untold iris
zeus attack is ridiculously good on rail
opal lodge
zeus or dio attack imo
marsh root
I have the bounce attack hammer
open heron
zeus attack boon will like double or triple ur damage
ionic lantern
Zeus is good on Rail?
untold iris
most of the good hammers for rail are special hammers
opal lodge
unless you're using aspect of hestia
ionic lantern
Good to know
opal lodge
zeus attack is the one most people use
marsh root
noted
opal lodge
aspect of hestia its usually aphro or artemis attack
ionic lantern
Aspect of Hestia is all about doing as much damage as possible at once
open heron
just try a run with the zeus item and see what its like with the zeus attack boon, makes a ton of difference
ionic lantern
I will try it some time, thanks!
marsh root
I'll try that, thank you very much.
I just. yeah. It's a very cool notion but I was struggling to make good on it at all.
untold iris
the best hammers for rail imo are delta chamber, rocket bomb, targeting system, cluster bomb
most of these buff your special
opal lodge
rocket cluster is the op build
untold iris
the other special hammers are also pretty good
opal lodge
hazard is a meme
marsh root
I just didn't like the burst attack on delta chamber blerg
untold iris
whereas most attack boosting hammers are pretty bad
marsh root
yeah
untold iris
delta chamber is really good
opal lodge
delta chamber you should be dash attacking a whole lot
willow fossil
Hazard does a lot of dmg tho
untold iris
you need to spam dash attack with delta chamber
marsh root
whereas most attack boosting hammers are pretty bad
@untold iris on rail? or more generally?
untold iris
on rail, most of the attack hammers are bad
the only one I think is really good is delta chamber
marsh root
also I just facechecked an exploding egg so problem solved lmao
untold iris
the +6 ammo one is fine
opal lodge
on sword all hammers are bad 
untold iris
the other ones I would avoid taking unless there is nothing better
willow fossil
I like the one that increases your attack speed
marsh root
🥚
untold iris
double edge is the best sword hammer
opal lodge
its not even close
untold iris
there are other sword hammers that are fine as wel but nothing else really stands out
the other hammers are kind of just "nice to have"
unless you use arthur
marsh root
I'm still trying to clear out all my hammer prophecies so still working broadly rather than really focusing
primal verge
Anywhere I can find some advice playing/building Frost Fair blade?
orchid glade
spamming serpent slash is the way to win
just take high-percentage boons for it
I prefer Athena for perma-deflect and extra safety
primal verge
Is that the spinny throwy thing?
rare kayak
nah
orchid glade
yep
orchid glade
too hammer-dependent
primal verge
Gy?
primal verge
Ahh
open heron
im on my first try with gy and got charged skewer on chamber 1
and was like, wtf
is this damage
orchid glade
disagreed, it's way slower than serpent slash in terms of killing
unless you have the charged skewer
open heron
i love the leading projectiles
kindred hearth
For me it's whichever hammer I find first spin or special. They're both very strong
open heron
athena cast is one of my favs too
orchid glade
i tried many cast builds this weekend, athena is probably one of the best
actually every cast build is op if built properly
orchid glade
get athena and you're safe permanently
helps a lot on high heat
@rare kayak how much to be precise?
open heron
what does cast build mean?
orchid glade
any build using casts as main source of damage
marsh root
while I've got y'all. Is there a trick to getting the flame wheels release?
open heron
like what would that entail, though? 1/2 shotting things and picking up ur casts?
marsh root
I've seen it once in 60 runs, and didn't buy it then and now my shop prophecy is annoyingly close to done
orchid glade
yes, 1-shotting things is the way to go
untold iris
charon's well has a lot of items
so its pretty hard to find flame wheel release
you kind of just need to keep doing runs and checking every well in elysium
marsh root
blerg blerg but thanks for confirming
untold iris
if you want to save one or two rerolls for the wells, that will improve your odds a little
untold iris
i never really liked cast builds
they can be good but the playstyle is just not something I find super interesting
orchid glade
Poseidon, Athena, Ares, Demeter, Artemis, Aphrodite are really op when charged
willow fossil
casts builds are fun sometimes, i love beowulf
tawny meadow
Can we talk about how ridiculous it is that eris has a straight up 75% damage bonus without any bells or whistles but gilgamesh requires applying a debuff (in a very specific way) for 25% increase but a 50% damage taken increase
stark ore
Rail deals like 10 damage per shot so 75% kinda makes sense, but yeah Eris does need some sort of nerf since the boost is global
untold iris
75% is a lot regardless of what is being boosted
rail doesnt do a lot of damage per shot but it fires fast, so its dps is still pretty good
and eris just boosts that dps by 75%
untold iris
doesnt pc also have aim assist?
willow fossil
aimlock on controller is like mandatory
opal lodge
yeah
opal lodge
pc also has it but imo its only helpful for rail
willow fossil
i hate it for everything
unkempt pagoda
isn't maim multiplicative
since enemies are taking 25% more damage, rather than you dealing more
or am i being pedantic
willow fossil
i dont understand, isnt it kinda the same?
unkempt pagoda
it'd be all of your damage x 1.25, if i'm right
since you deal your damage, and the enemy takes 25% more of that
unkempt pagoda
eris is additive
rare kayak
eris is big but gets smaller as more damage modifiers are added
but idk when gil will push past something like 75%
plus eris 75% works with stuff with base damage like casts, zeus and ares
although i guess gil does too huh
untold iris
gilgamesh does have like 400 flat damage on maim
rare kayak
yeah but its slow
untold iris
its still good damage against beefy enemies
rare kayak
true
willow fossil
thats the thing that makes eris good, lots of people just want to speedrun
untold iris
like comparing 25% damage to 75% damage looks bad but its actually 25% + 400 flat
willow fossil
so the slow 400 doesnt help
untold iris
eris is good because it has a good damage buff and ranged weapons are just naturally better than melee weapons imo
being melee sucks
willow fossil
i love melee
rare kayak
@willow fossil lets say u got a special at +200%, eris would boost damage to +275%, while gilgamesh would boost damage to 250% because x1.25
willow fossil
bow and gun are my least favorite
rare kayak
thats whycrits are strong
untold iris
you have to play better with a melee weapon to achieve the same results imo
rare kayak
because they triple damage rather than +200%
willow fossil
melee were never a problem for me
untold iris
like I've done every weapon besides shield up to 32 heat and the ranged weapons just feel so much better when the game is more difficult
spring tree
I don't know if this is spoiler, but what is the excalibur?
unkempt pagoda
big sword from arturian myth
rare kayak
need to invest more blood to find wm
spring tree
Oh okay, because I can't find info on it anywhere or how to get it
rare kayak
invest blood into spear
untold iris
did you unlock guan yu yet?
rare kayak
talk to achilles until you get guan yu
invest blood into sword
talk to nyx until you get excalibur
unkempt pagoda
look in pins in #h1-story-discussion
rare kayak
basically just do the usual
talk to everyone
that looks at you funny
god imagine if gil aspect maim worked with merciful like it did with longing
or just the various ares doom boons
impending with that dummy damage
stark ore
Slap on Ares on special for an easy 500 damage per burst
rare kayak
or u could play demeter
spring tree
I have Guan Yu yes
spring tree
thank you so much for the clear up, I was so confused
rare kayak
yeah its the only aspect thats usually referred to as the weapon name than as the aspect name lol
mighty ermine
you pretty much never hear people talking about the frost fair blade or celestial sharanga lol
unkempt pagoda
brb bout to do a naegling's board run
tawny meadow
It's because Rama and guan are easier to say and you'd be hard pressed to find a native English speaker who doesn't know about Excalibur
spare scaffold
Is it just me or Zeus shield clear time is generally slower
tawny meadow
Yeah Zeus shield is slow
spare scaffold
Seeing that you sort of have to wait for your disc to move around to kill things
so not a playstyle problem got it
unkempt pagoda
gonna do a heat 32 run with igneus eden
mighty ermine
you can still do TD3 at pretty high heat with zeus aspect, but it does cut it close
@unkempt pagoda genuinely almost forgot lucifer aspect's name there lol
unkempt pagoda
had to look it up lmao
tawny meadow
I know bablo was doing some speed run labbing with less common aspects, but can't remember if he did Zeus
rare kayak
excalibur is just so rooted into the “legendary weapon” psyche of the human race at this point
unkempt pagoda
it's one thing to make up random gun myths, it's another to have to name your fake mythical gun
tawny meadow
Honestly it sucks that Eris is just better than all other rail aspects
rare kayak
i mean no one says varatha or whatever too
untold iris
i mean, are there any real mythical guns?
rare kayak
or coronacht
mighty ermine
i've done a 45 heat run with zeus shield with TD3, so basically had to be around 20 minutes. and my 50 attempts with it do just have trouble with TD in particular
unkempt pagoda
people say aegis all the time
rare kayak
not really, recent legends have kinda fallen off
unkempt pagoda
i meant in reference to shield
rare kayak
aspect of shoot you in the face really hard
turbid needle
Literally had a run with zeus shield at 40 heat like a few hours ago with TD3
rare kayak
i was responding to silly
turbid needle
Time was the main problem I was afraid of
rare kayak
true people say aegis
turbid needle
So yeah
rare kayak
but lots say shield
unkempt pagoda
what, you've never heard of hearth mommy's sniper rifle?
she was shooting titans left and right
rare kayak
why cant i let medusa ride my zeus shield of petrifying special
mighty ermine
aspect of dad trident
rare kayak
smh sgg
tawny meadow
I wish hearth mommy would give boons
unkempt pagoda
was written right in the iliad i promise
rare kayak
hearth mommy only takes my gems smh
cost me 1200 gems to make a fireplace
where does rail even generate cartridges from anyway
unkempt pagoda
determination
turbid needle
Where do you get the arrows for the bow
rare kayak
oh same
hoarding shot where you do 20% of ur current cash as flat damage but you lose 5 obols per attack
rare kayak
for being the greatest of the angels you would think lucifer would make a weapon with a better ammo cap
mossy light
so heart rend multiplies crit damage by 1.5, or does it add 50% to crit damage?
mighty ermine
crits go from 3.0x to 4.5x
tawny meadow
Lucifer never stood a chance with how bad his rail is
errant ether
🗿 i just unlocked the sword hidden aspect and wow it hits heavy, though slow.
robust anchor
true
errant ether
i have a feeling im gonna struggle against hades
mossy light
the rail is pretty gud i think?
but uggh, i built this heart rend build backwards
maybe not... hmm
warm snow
spring tree
I feel like I am the only one that just adore the spear
having a deflect build on the spear is so good
pliant anvil
The only thing I dislike about the spear (specifically Achilles) is waiting for casts to fall out of enemies.
tight cedar
If you don't like picking up casts, have you tried the green mirror upgrade?
You no longer have 3 casts, but you also don't have to wait for them to drop or pick up
pliant anvil
Oh, I know, it's just the burst is SO much better with 3 casts
and better for clearing rooms
spring tree
when I play Spear, I usually go for Poseidon Cast or no cast at all, and depend on the range of the spear
pliant anvil
Mostly because you can just grab the casts from dead enemies and recast them instead of having a 3-5 second wait
spring tree
the spear is really great at range
honest jungle
question what people should i look for a sheild run
placid topaz
which shield?
pliant anvil
boons? Depends on the aspect you use. With Aspect of Zeus, I prefer either going for Zeus/Poseidon for sea storm, but I've also heard merciful end is really good too
pliant anvil
With Beowulf, you can kinda just use any typical cast build
placid topaz
yeah zeus with zeus is great
honest jungle
im trying to unlock that atm
placid topaz
beowulf you want some hard hitting cast options, like athena/aphro/others
pliant anvil
I usually go for Aprhodite/Demeter and privileged status
then aphro on attack so the cast does silly damage
honest jungle
i like to get at the start use the athena charm to get athena boon then get deflect with my x and holding x button
pliant anvil
With shield, you don't need deflect on attack, but it can be handy
spring tree
If you use Chaos aspect, I use Aphro on attack, and Dio on special
honest jungle
dealing with bone hydras or witches its useful
pliant anvil
but deflect is one of those boons that's always handy
spring tree
really strong build, with no need for duo, though of course the duo that comes out of that (Low Tolerance) is a nice plus
pliant anvil
I usually prefer it on dash though, adds extra safety to it
Do the multi shields each apply hangover to a single enemy? I haven't used it in forever
honest jungle
what is the privileged status
solid hazel
it's the mirror talent that gives +40% when enemy has two status curses
pliant anvil
It's the alternative to family favorite, and it's +20/40% damage against enemies with 2 status curses
Status curses being weak, doom, ruptured, hangover, marked, jolted, exposed, and chill
solid hazel
I was convinced that it's a little overrated recently
honest jungle
so whos keepsake should i get first aphro or demeter im about to go on a run
pliant anvil
what aspect? Chaos?
pliant anvil
Have you tried using it?
solid hazel
like 40% and 25% is not very different
pliant anvil
it's a noticable damage increase over FF if you set up for it
solid hazel
cuz it's additive not multiplicative
pliant anvil
It really is when you're dealing hundreds of damage though
honest jungle
yea im using chaos aspect
pliant anvil
especially for something like a cast build
honest jungle
what is a cast build
pliant anvil
which is the main use
solid hazel
I mean...Aphrodite attack does around +80 to +100% with little investment
pliant anvil
It's a build where you focus on your cast being the main source of damage
solid hazel
does that +15% really matter that much in that kind of context?
pliant anvil
Only if you're using something with scaling
but 40% more damage on casts vs 25% is huge
honest jungle
so what keepsake should i use on a run with aspect of chaos sheild
and what boons should i look for
pliant anvil
I would say dio so you can start aiming for his legendary (assuming you get trippy shot)
solid hazel
it seems even weaker on a cast build...like how ar eyou applying two status effects?
pliant anvil
Easy
honest jungle
what there are legendary things
solid hazel
the ideal cast build, you're just throwing casts, you're not throwing out attacks and specials
so aphro and demeter?
pliant anvil
Usually yeah