if hes new, he should only have like 5 or 6 shots
#h1-builds-and-combat
mossy light
solid hazel
mmhm good point
half crater
5 or 6 is still plenty for dio
mossy light
5 is all you need for dio
solid hazel
low tolerance though
half crater
well, ideally you want the full 8
for low tolerance yeah
but 5 is fine
you can go arty on attack instead of aphro and get splitting headache instead, if you want
that could be alright
mossy light
@spare siren so there you go, try wearing the dionysis trinket, get the boon that affects your special, work on your mirror, and dont give up
if you tell us your mirror perks, we can help you get something more effective too
solid hazel
all in on high confidence!
half crater
also: dash strike lots with bow
solid hazel
don't listen to me...you'll usually do better in life
mossy light
high confidence 
half crater
not as mandatory on chiron, but still a good habit to get into
gritty pendant
Is there any upside for doing higher pacts then your gauge I've never tried it
mossy light
if hes using chiron he can get the extra damage on max rather than the backstab
cunning urchin
Make sure you put a lot of poms on Drunken Flourish if you go that route.
solid hazel
Is there any upside for doing higher pacts then your gauge I've never tried it
@gritty pendant not from a reward stand point, but if you just wanna unlock like skelly statues
cunning urchin
Nah, def take Shadow Presence on Chiron.
gritty pendant
Alright
half crater
the reward for higher heats is having done higher heats
solid hazel
yeah if you've only beaten say heat 1 and then you do a heat 5, then itll give you bounties for heat 2
not for heat 5
half crater
^
gritty pendant
I was thinking that if like you did more you got more blood,diamonds,Ambrosia. Glad to know how it actually works thanks for answering the question!
solid hazel
yeah just gotta grind your way up
half crater
yeah the bounties are the same for beating 1 heat or 20
solid hazel
no other faster way to get the diamonds/ambrosia/blood
ocassionally the wretched broker gives a good deal, but other than that not really anything
well fish in the last area too
half crater
you can buy them in styx
solid hazel
oh yeah haha that too
solid hazel
I guess that's what the otherwise totally useless mirror talent is for
gritty pendant
I see I never buy em at styx
So much money you'd have to save up from the previous floor.
half crater
and then not spend it all on boons that will actually help you right now, yeah
solid hazel
yeah just climbing the heats and doing minor prophecies will give you more than enough of everything
half crater
imo it’s not worth it unless you’re explicitly doing a farming run
solid hazel
they give you way too much ambrosia actually
don't feel bad about turning it in for titans blood if you want to unlock aspects earlier
spare siren
solid hazel
gl, you'll get there evenually
mossy light
it takes a good few tries
gritty pendant
Trust me @spare siren You'll get it eventually you're making good progress if you can get to hades.
I believe in you!
gritty pendant
Nah
cunning urchin
It is for me.
gritty pendant
Haven't touched it yet
mossy light
my best was 16, then i swapped to hellmode
vapid bolt
doesnt hellmode just add heat
solid hazel
I feel like @cunning urchin is the only one listening here
mossy light
most people are doing stuff, people usually dont respond
cunning urchin
I don't think it's elitism if you've never done 32 Heat yourself, though.
solid hazel
shh
although philosophically I am wondering if it is elitism or not
if one pretends to be part of a class they are not
I think it is
cunning urchin
Is it really 32 if you're not taking High Confidence?
mossy light
just max labor and antiheal and use SD
vapid bolt
SD?
cunning urchin
Stubborn Defiance.
vapid bolt
do people use that? just seems really weak compared to DD
cunning urchin
Yeah, it's practically required at high heat.
LC4 disables healing, SD circumvents that.
vapid bolt
how so
solid hazel
can we define what high heat is for context?
kind egret
Alright I can confirm
Cast boons don't affect scintillating feast
still hitting for the base 60
solid hazel
the scientist has returned
solid hazel
cool I will file it away in my head for future reference
kind egret
🙂
solid hazel
always impresses the ladies when you pull out obscure Hades mechanics
kind egret
ay papi, tell me the difference between flat and percentage scaling damage again
solid hazel
lol yeah that's pretty much how it goes in my self-aggrandizing fantasies
cunning urchin
I think I'm usually the one impressing people with obscure mechanics, though. 
stable egret
Question for anyone who knows
With dem fists would the kick hammer be 10 hits for 40 damage or just 6
stable egret
Ah darn
Additive as always
Darn the long range special and kick are basically equivalent in damage then
Range does slightly more damage
Range is better than solely for the range
gritty pendant
Just ran rail cannon
Since I barely use it only got it up to like 2 heat
Was a good build used Eris, plus Aphrodite Special, plus Hammer that lets you shoot 3 specials at once.
Also Had Zeus chain for normal shot but it was a common boon so I mostly used it to apply jolted so my Grenades did more damage
tranquil violet
My favorite "obscure" detail so far is that Arthur's aura disables lava and traps
gritty pendant
Huh good to know
tranquil violet
Also Hades aspect has a secret that makes it overpowered: you just ||select the spear in the prep room and choose a different aspect||
gritty pendant
While Guan Yu is the best spear it's like my least favorite weapon to use.
gritty pendant
Cao?
tranquil violet
Never mind.
gritty pendant
😔 Idk mang I just don't like how laggy the normal attack is.
tranquil violet
It's all about the special
Normal attack and spin are meh
Guan Yu isn't close range
Play mid to long range and use the special
gritty pendant
Ik special is good but it's repetitive to only use that throughout an entire run and switch to spin for heals.
tranquil violet
Try a Sea Storm special build 🙂
It's fun
I mostly use the spin and attack to stack debuffs but not for damage
Main damage is the special
With sea storm and razor shoals and static discharge it's amazing
It has a much bigger hit box than it appears to
And with Poseidon special it basically groups up enemies at the end of the throw which is great
And it's piercing and explosive
You can take out half a room in one special with some good positioning and boons
I like Poseidon with Guan Yu for crowd control
And Sea Storm turns that into raw DPS
gritty pendant
I'll have to try it.
tranquil violet
If you're getting hit, you're playing Guan Yu wrong
I almost always run Guan Yu with the Butterfly
You shouldn't ever be in striking distance of any melee enemy
Unless you need a spin heal
But that means you got hit
Which means you've already messed up
Athena on attack is also nice
Dash attack can clear paths and a bunch of projectiles ez
And Athena on the spin is hilarious
Guan Yu is a glass cannon and special is your main damage
gritty pendant
I'm not getting hit I just don't like how the weapon feels to use, it's the best weapon but it doesn't feel good to use for me. It's a preference thing I think the throw is cool but overall don't really enjoy the rest of the move set which makes combat kinda boring for me.
tranquil violet
Spin is just to compensate for low health (unnecessary if you don't get hit or kill everything before it can hit you) or it can pair nicely with say, Demeter or Dio and duo boons
Idk if it's the best weapon I doubt that
But it is quite good
The fun with Guan Yu is playing with Butterfly
You have so many good tools to avoid damage completely while still wrecking rooms fast
gritty pendant
Then what is? Guan provides life steal that's hard to beat.
tranquil violet
The spin? It's a projectile shield.
The slow attack? Well, I never use it...
Dash attack is good though
The life steal is honestly the least important bit imo
It's not something to build around
It's just handy in a pinch
I usually put debuffs or Athena on the main attack so I can stack them with spins, or block/deflect attacks
But I don't use it for damage at all
I only really ever use it to gain a few HP back at the end of a room's last wave to fix up a mistake
But it's not core toolkit, it's more of a helpful crutch.
Main attack is garbage imo. Way too slow and chunky and not worth using (maybe there's some hammers that make it good...?)
Spin = apply debuffs a few times and kill projectiles
Special = YEET STICK
When I get a really nice Guan Yu build it feels like I'm mostly using special or (dash) attack to cancel attacks and projectiles and when there's a free moment tossing out a special which should OHKO one or more enemies.
Aphrodite and Poseidon (with Sea Storm) are my preferred special boons.
Marked builds are also fun.
@gritty pendant build Guan Yu around every special immediately killing one or more enemies
And then focus on not talking damage and throwing them out when you have a moment to breathe
Use the spin and attack to stack debuffs or block projectiles
The special's base damage is really good
gritty pendant
Ok thanks for the tips!
proven osprey
just lost to tight deadline and wondered why
no serrated nor charged skewer, no t2 boons crit
about GY
Artemis special all the way, charged skewer for dmg and safety, serrated point is a lot of dmg too but less safe @tranquil violet
Heart rend duo is excellent
If you don't get it, aphro attack is always good because weak kinda offset your low hp pool
you dont attack much indeed as Microwaved said, dash attack is better (I pinged the wrong guy woops)
@gritty pendant
there we go
gritty pendant
Yup you basically buff up your attack to apply status, have special or cast apply another status effect for 40% damage up. Go with a high damaging special alla Aphrodite or Poseidon. Then Run away and use Special to win.
proven osprey
not really since I run Artemis special
Thus I prefer family favorite over the other, since duo curse can be hard to pull of
gritty pendant
*off
gritty pendant
But yeah, Idk I find getting Duo curse to be alright? Like you can get it through almost every god you just need to have differing boons for attacks.
Like Zeus can get it through Jolted, Poseidon can do it through Ruptured, Dionysus, Demeter, Aphrodite, and Ares can do it with just basic attacks. Demeter and Dionysus can do it through cast if you get the right boons.
Not Including revenge which also can apply status.
royal helm
Yea... the spears compete against Achilles spear ... and it's kinda good
150% damage for four attacks/casts is pretty good
gritty pendant
It is
lethal chasm
hades and achilles are both good imo but spear is just overall kinda unforgiving gameplay wise
vs eris or something
gotta have such spacial awareness and charge properly vs eris hold down button lol
gritty pendant
On Run 69
highest heat I've gotten is 6 I think I need to practice Extreme Measures since I died.
limber flax
aight
gritty pendant
Since it'll hit twice
limber flax
i assume world splitter is always bad on nemesis
gritty pendant
Then have special be like demeter and get the duo 40% damage boost plus crits
limber flax
get offered shop or zeus
im thinking zeus sucks so i go shop
and get zeus boon there
😐
limber flax
thunder dash and jolted and special
but jolted only bc i got zeus revenge lol
all suck
gritty pendant
Yea
kind egret
Real quick, what're the general ideas with Rama? Lighting special + artemis primary or something
or like, hangover stacking with weak and pain duos
lethal chasm
yea
exactly that lol
or aphro primary
lightning special on rama is borked
well
kind egret
sick
lethal chasm
not as much as eris but its REALLY good
i had a eris perfect zeus build yesterday w 5k numbers up on lightning on command was so sick lol
but you can get like 1k+ on rama ime
kind egret
goddamn
lethal chasm
rama special** zeus
kind egret
also @limber flax lightning dash is ok on sword, but if you hate it there's nothing wrong with taking the highesrt rarity boon to sell later
purple or higher makes a profit
yep, fast attacking low damage seemed like a shoe-in for lightning special
good to see my intuition was correct. Thanks!
lethal chasm
yea the run i did with it i didnt even use the primary
intended to
but it was a loss of dps
lol
kind egret
lmao
kind egret
next time I'll swap out for FF then 😂
limber flax
Does the lightning from lightning dash automatically target nearby enemies?
sharp merlin
What are the best casts to use with Hera bow? I have been using True Shot with Achilles Spear/Poseidon sword but I feel like on the bow it does not do as much damage.
limber flax
Okay
kind egret
Lightning dash auto targets yep
limber flax
Lightning dash and jolted good eh
kind egret
I find Flood Shot, Aphro Shot and Athena Shot all do great work
kind egret
I hate waiting around for trippy to drop lmao
lethal chasm
is great bc you got duo options like crazy
sharp merlin
Does Trippy Shot drop faster with more blood in the Her bow? Got my first clear using that combo lol.
kind egret
not as far as I know?
lethal chasm
prob a internal cd for trippy
half crater
hera ignores the lob anyway?
lethal chasm
static
kind egret
I'll do some Hades Science later
lethal chasm
all the values are in json in ... i forget what game folder lol
half crater
there’s a small delay, but it goes pretty fast on hera; that’s what makes it a good combo
but no titan blood doesn’t change anything
kind egret
Athena and Aphro shot is really interesting because as far as I know, Hera shots count as backstab for some reason
kind egret
so if you get the duo boon it doubles you damage
spare flare
Marked is one, yes.
kind egret
*your
sharp merlin
Thanks guys. I will try playing around with those other casts as well. I am not really into the Chiron bow and I am starting to push into the mid heats.
half crater
parting shot applies backstab +% damage to your cast
lethal chasm
was ridic artemis
half crater
it doesn’t allow your cast to backstab
kind egret
I thought it was only if you actually shot them from the back
half crater
the wording is pretty unclear lol
lethal chasm
no yeah its just flat cast increase
half crater
yeah i thought that too until recently
lethal chasm
kinda sucks
kind egret
that's a heck yeah baby
half crater
with shadow presence it’s like, a flat plus +85% cast damage
lethal chasm
oh word
half crater
yeah in a cast build it’s crazy good
lethal chasm
i never manage to get it when im running cast
kind egret
plus I thought with cast all the boons turn out to be multiplicative? or something to that effect
half crater
with a good +backstab damage chaos curse, it’s flat out ridiculous
sacred geyser
does pressing Give Up reset my streak of wins?
half crater
they’re aren’t multiplicative with each other
sharp merlin
It does not.
sacred geyser
:0 cool
kind egret
oh, gotcha 😢
half crater
but they do multiple bonuses from boons, because cast boons increase base damage
which is real nice
sharp merlin
I did it a few times when I still had my acorn equipped. Never considered that would reset my streak, but luckily it did not!
spare flare
"Heartbreak Strike or Deadly Strike, Drunken Flourish or Thunder Flourish for Rama."
limber flax
oh whaaat
sharp merlin
Does Jolted count as a status? Like for the extra mirror damage.
half crater
yep
kind egret
yep
limber flax
i thoguht for sure giving up destroys streak
spare flare
Yeah. Look up.
limber flax
dam
spare flare
I just posted a link to the status curses.
half crater
giving up basically deletes whatever you did
sharp merlin
Haha missed that. Thanks.
half crater
so you lose any meta currency you gained, don’t lose any streaks you had, and start with the same seed on your next run
spare flare
It legit rewinds your save.
spare flare
Or use three dice of Fated Persuasion to start with Thunder Strike (Epic) and go on to accomplish your shortest time yet despite getting screwed out of the legendaries and duos except one that you were going for.
That happened to me a bit ago.
spare flare
No, damn it.
spare flare
I got, uh, which was it? Hmm . . . Know what? I didn't even get one.
fiery vigil
I dunno if this belongs in high heat strategies or here but what's the quickest way to deal with Wretched Sneaks in EM4? Is it just to beat Hades up before they're really god damn annoying
spare flare
I did, however, have Rush Delivery and a Greater Haste (Heroic), so, you know, big, fat damage.
half crater
i’m no EM4 expert (that fight scares me lol) but idk if people are really sure what the best way to deal with sneak is atm lol
people are always complaining about them
solid cairn
I haven’t gotten around to trying EM4
lethal chasm
i failed a lot at it
hoary quest
EM4 is hit or miss
lethal chasm
then got a busted zeus eris build w basically every lightning boon
and did em4 w no DD lost
lol
also got to 10% a lot of times
trying to unga bunga it lol
hoary quest
I’ve found the Theseus fight is easier with EM
lethal chasm
same
i used to always die on it not as much w it lol
moving in circles vs keeping track of a sniper
ill take circles
weary ridge
I beat EM4 for the first time last night, the sneak spawned and I just went all in on Hades to end the phase since trying to juggle the both of them felt like a losing effort
spare flare
I had a few sneaks appear in my attempt and still won on the first try.
Granted, I only had about 69 HP left, spent a DD (took two hits plus acorn), and had a really strong Rama build.
worn crypt
EM4 Sneak gets a lot more manageable with divine dash. If he summons one on his first summon you can try to kill it if you have time. If it's his second summon I just try to be moving as much as possible and focus on killing Hades.
spare flare
I had Hunter Dash. Being able to straight-up delete sneaks is viable, too.
hearty elbow
And not just for prophecy hunting? lol
sacred geyser
it IS for prophecy hunting, im just glad i dont have to use stygian soul more than once
jovial harness
does the same seed mean you can get all the same boons if you give up?
proven osprey
the first one will be identical
but the actions you perform impact the seed as far as I know
so I gave up a few times and there were difference even in tartarus
unkempt pagoda
to make seeds work past the first and second room, you've gotta do some serious routing
mellow cliff
is it possible to end up with 5 gods out of styx if you go in with 3?
trying to figure out how i ended up with 5 gods on a recent run without having used a keepsake to force the 5th
dry ember
Was Hermes one of them?
Or did you actually have at least 1 boon from each of the 5 different Gods?
mellow cliff
ares, aphro, athena, demeter, dionysus
half crater
that’s weird
mellow cliff
just posted a screenshot in #h1-victory-boasting
and i don't think i forced it with keepsakes either... ares into tartarus, athena in asphodel but i already had natural athena anyway
i'm wondering, if you have an incomplete boon pool going into styx, can you end up with different new gods spawning for tunnels and for shop?
not useful for anything, just sorta weird
hearty elbow
Nope
proven osprey
I'm so bad at this game
losing DD in such a stupid way
then dying vs hades because I'm garbage
short ravine
Casually losing two DD's in an elysium chamber be like 
half crater
try switching to SD
if you lose a DD for no reason, it doesn’t matter
it’s probably worse without LC4 but it’s just so much more relaxed
proven osprey
yeah, i'm switching
short ravine
Nah, cause I always lose 1 or 2 lives against Hades, so I need that normal Defiance
half crater
yeah it has its downsides for sure
proven osprey
I'm a GY player anyway
half crater
i didn’t really realise how much i relied on just DD tanking bosses until i switched
oh nice
GY players inspire me lol
proven osprey
(it's a lot of pain)
proven osprey
yup
finite socket
Any good Aspect of Hades builds?
turbid needle
Somebody could tell me why the wiki says Eclipse boon (boon from chaos that makes gems and darkness worth more) says it goes to 200% max on epic but I always got it to 120 max ? Been doing a dozen runs the last few days, got it in most of my runs, got it to epic several times, but never above 120%, while blue can reach 100 110 sometimes, I'm really that unlucky or is the wiki wrong and it doesn't go as high as 200?
(Like wiki says it should be 150-200% roll at epic but I got one at 119% right now in game)
turbid needle
Just got another at 130
On the plus side I just got 214 dark from the fury lul
Epic is maxed at 150 and I got unlucky I guess ?
proven osprey
according to the wiki 150 is the rare cap
patch maybe ?
but why would you patch such a boon
turbid needle
I checked the previous patch notes, there's a bug fix for eclipse not showing proper numbers
But it should be fixed, that was months ago lol
turbid needle
Ok, so Hydra just gave me 429 dark
I have 60% from Pos, 20% from weapon, 119 and 130 from chaos
And wiki says Hydra normally gives 60
There's nothing right in that
proven osprey
cunning urchin
The number of players actively working on the wiki is pretty small.
turbid needle
Yeah I'm guessing darkness drop from bosses numbers aren't up to date
proven osprey
I'm not a maths expert but
turbid needle
Yeah, patch notes says Dark from bosses has been increased on 13/10, and if I didn't f up my math (which is very possible), Hydra is giving 130 Darkness
proven osprey
from 60 to 429, it should be 615% more ?
turbid needle
Meaning Chaos eclipse boon has probably been nerfed at some point, I guess
And beware of wiki
mossy light
hoookay. FO2 is hard
proven osprey
because it's 230%
turbid needle
Hmm, 130 to 429 is 329% ? (not exactly but that seems to be in the range)
cunning urchin
Multiplicadditively.
proven osprey
((429-130)/130)*100 is 230% to me
turbid needle
I'm really horrendous at math eh
Ok, new numbers, trove gave me 130 darkness, I should have 119 + 130 + 20 bonus on that, and that seems to add up
So Hydra is prolly giving 100 Darkness
proven osprey
how do you do your maths buddy
turbid needle
Game is like, you gain 100% darkness base, then everything is additive, meaning with +329% darkness, I gain 429% of everything I pick.
So 100 becomes 429 ? That's the only way I find all this to make sense
Also, I don't do math generally, I'm so bad at it, it's really something entirely
proven osprey
Oh that would make sense
mossy light
wow, achilles cast build is nuts, i wanted to thank this channel for give that advice
delicate badger
I feel like people say EM3 Theseus is easier but it's so hard for me...
mossy light
legendary ares hunting blades 
cunning urchin
Game is like, you gain 100% darkness base, then everything is additive, meaning with +329% darkness, I gain 429% of everything I pick.
So 100 becomes 429 ? That's the only way I find all this to make sense
That's how that works, yes.
lament perch
Ugh this run sucks. All the boons I see are not the ones I want.
supple talon
Hi guys, anyone has a tip about how to use Varatha?
I already beat the final boss with the Sword, the Bow and the gloves but I can't do enough damage with the spear :(
mossy light
huhhm. just the base spear?
special builds dont work well for me aside from the charged shot, so i tend to stick to attack
i tend to grab demeter/ares/dio on the main attack and just mash
mossy light
dio gets good dps when you stack hangover
proven osprey
I would go Aphro arte, classic
mossy light
the problem with spear is the poor dps. the hades aspect works well with quick charge as well
supple talon
Get it
limber flax
get flurry on spear
proven osprey
get serrated point
mossy light
okay. FO2 is hard.
spare scaffold
What talents am I left with when I max out RI
turbid needle
3549 darkness in one run, that turned out very good
spare scaffold
Truly an experience for turbo psychogamers
limber flax
time to pray for future max heat runners
spare scaffold
I'll look forward to the day I can max heat
limber flax
🙏
limber flax
can you even seed without mods?
cunning urchin
Yeah.
half crater
save files
limber flax
oh right
mossy light
hell mode FO2 means beams melt me. 
cunning urchin
You die until you find a seed you want, then just keep giving up when you die or back up the save file or whatever.
half crater
or that
limber flax
for a sec i thought you meant ingame
proven osprey
what an ominous water gun
half crater
ngl i feel kinda bad when that happens like
witches start spawning in and i’ve got a great build be like “i’m so sorry than; this is going to be embarrassing for you”
half crater
getting all of them is, yeah agreed
i mean just when i get most of them
i’m not sure i’ve ever actually got every single one
proven osprey
when your build is clunky and you draw, feels good too
half crater
truth
cunning urchin
His attacks are faster in the test branch.
marsh patrol
anyone know the best way to build sword or shield? i seems to have the most trouble with those two weapons and it bugs me xD
finite socket
Depends on the Aspect
For Chaos you could do Zeus special and other boons from him + Bull Rush hammers
cunning urchin
There's a build guide for the base weapons pinned in #h1-for-new-players. That's a good starting point. 
cunning urchin
The player who wrote it is like super awesome.
cunning urchin
Yeah, she's super nice and kind and cute and humble.
proven osprey
Guan Yu, usually I'm going back to base quickly enough
still vigil
Imma try that today
proven osprey
Idk about the last part but you're nice yeah
still vigil
Then imma try shield with Poseidon
half crater
nyaanyaa’s super humble; she only ever brags about other people’s achievements
and her own in third person
marsh patrol
still vigil
Like my 60 heat clear with hades aspect?
half crater
still waiting on the footages for that
still vigil
It's in theory still
half crater
pretty psyched
mossy light
how long does it take to get acclimated to FO2?
half crater
wait are you actually gonna try and do it?
turbid needle
About an eternity I would say
half crater
FO2 takes a while
mossy light
it went fine until elysium. then the bowmen and asterius opened me a new one
half crater
it’s always gonna be harder, so it isn’t just about getting used to it
still vigil
@half crater yes actually
cunning urchin
I'm 600 hours and some WRs in, and I'm still working on getting acclimated to FO2.
mossy light
FO1 + EM3 is much easier than FO2?
proven osprey
YES
half crater
nice
still vigil
But after I clear 40 with gilgamesh
turbid needle
More or less what ohokwy said, I'm dashing way more than usual when playing FO2 I know
cunning urchin
40 with Gilgamesh is some task.
frosty jolt
I was just about to ask the same question actually. Does anybody else find ||daddy|| harder to beat on FO2 than EM4?
turbid needle
Depend on the build I would say
mossy light
i think ill just aim for 32 before i crank up the weird combo pacts
turbid needle
EM4 tend to be absolute hell
still vigil
Really?
I find everything else beforehand to be the stuff that kicks ya in the teeth
frosty jolt
Once I get past the first phase, I don't mind EM4 so much. I still die a lot because I am not good at precise dashing, but that's on me
half crater
i think people who say FO2 is harder than EM4 are mostly referring to getting to Dad
mossy light
so which are the worst pacts? HL, LC, EM4, FO2, and BP2?
marsh patrol
im over here still on pacifier mode doing EM1 at best -3-
half crater
the fight itself is obviously easier with FO2 imo
frosty jolt
FO2...I can't react quick enough to anything, because I am an old man
still vigil
Dun get hit
mossy light
im old too, almost 31
still vigil
Simple maths
half crater
so which are the worst pacts? HL, LC, EM4, FO2, and BP2?
@mossy light BP2, FO2 and HL can be hard, but i wouldn’t say they’re the worst
LC4 actually isn’t that bad with SD
frosty jolt
Ah. I'll have to adjust my strategy to include not getting hit, then
mossy light
if im trying to get to 32, what would you recommend?
dry ember
everyone of them is worst if you are on high enough heat
still vigil
AP is not the bee's knees
dry ember
but the worst offender is definitely RI3 and RI4
half crater
i’d say the hardest are RI3-4, AP, EM4, maybe TD3 with other stuff
dry ember
giving up the first 6 mirror for a mere 4 heat is criminal
half crater
it’s nothing compared to giving up the rest lol
dry ember
p bad, but doable
still vigil
At that point it's like which aspect can survive that kind of cripple
frosty jolt
I actually find anything more than TD1 is too tight for me if I have JS or CP on. But I've barely ever managed to get 20 minute runs anyway
cunning urchin
You'd miss Dark Foresight the most.
mossy light
id use dark foresight if i had a maxed save
dry ember
there are maxed saves online, if you want to practice
cunning urchin
if im trying to get to 32, what would you recommend?
Probably anything but AP, RI, FO, and EM4 if the goal is just beating 32.
mossy light
im on switch
dry ember
oof, I guess you can wait for cross save soon
cunning urchin
UC isn't so bad. There's only one level for that, anyway.
dry ember
32 without FO2 is kinda painful ngl
turbid needle
I consider it mandatory for 32 imo
mossy light
oops, no UC2
dry ember
because that means you are locked into some sort of HL5, some JS/CP and TD3
cunning urchin
It's not painful, though.
half crater
my first 32 was max JS/CP no TD
cunning urchin
You'll end up taking a lot more damage if you pick FO2.
mossy light
maybe trade BP2 for a HL and RI?
dry ember
I mean that also means you are forced into some anti synergistic combination, like TD3 and JS/CP
Or forced in the to LC4 + SD combo
which can be hard
mossy light
how bad is BP2, that sounds like a kick in the teeth
cunning urchin
You're not forced into that. 32 gives you so many options still.
cunning urchin
That's probably also true.
mossy light
huhhm, thats exciting. ill note that
still vigil
Just turn God mode and you can make more mistakes
hoary slate
BP2 is fun. Before you pick FO
cunning urchin
BP2 is not too bad if you don't have FO. It's a lot worse with FO.
dry ember
LC4 + SD is easier than FO2
With practice, yes. But you can also practice for FO2.
cunning urchin
I have practiced FO2.
proven osprey
🍿
dry ember
At 32 you have room, but you also need to practice some hard pacts.
cunning urchin
"Don't get hit" is actually a reasonable strategy when things don't swarm you with +40% speed.
half crater
for LC4 you only really need boss practice, rooms are practically easier
for FO2, the entirety of elysium can become a nightmare
mossy light
so youd take BP2 HL RI2 over BP2 HO1 RI1 ?
proven osprey
Got I remembered those brightswords
turbid needle
Really depend on your playstyle for LC4, I got it only to 1 on my 32 heat first because I like to heal, a lot
proven osprey
they don't skip legs day
turbid needle
Which makes me care a lot less about FO2
mossy light
its the strongbows and regular asterius that kicked my FO2
half crater
that’s the other thing about LC4: you save so much money on healing lol
turbid needle
Yeah but what do you really need the money for anyway ? You can get by without the power
half crater
which is maybe not a real benefit
dry ember
or just take CF2
half crater
but it’s nice
dry ember
and not buy anything
mossy light
if youre taking LC4 you probably have CF2 on
half crater
i still buy things on CF2 lol
half crater
fair
mossy light
aside from chariots, most of the damage i take is from offscreen
dry ember
aside from the enemies in the game, the game is quite easy.
half crater
yeah when’re they gonna add release well items for the other enemies
it’s pretty much always enemies that kill me
dry ember
same, can we get no trap damage on our way there, also?
half crater
seems reasonable
proven osprey
you're right
cunning urchin
so youd take BP2 HL RI2 over BP2 HO1 RI1 ?
If I take RI, I'd take RI2 at minimum. But I wouldn't take that until like 50+ unless I just wanted a personal challenge at lower heat.
half crater
oh really? i run RI1-2 basically all the time
proven osprey
I've always wondered why I die so often, you made me realize that there always is an enemy involved
half crater
good to know
turbid needle
oh really? i run RI1-2 basically all the time
Shudders
cunning urchin
Dark Foresight is way too good.
And having 4 Persuasion rerolls from the start is huge.
half crater
you’re not wrong
dry ember
I've always wondered why I die so often, you made me realize that there always is an enemy involved
But, sometimes, this happens: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Dm_0a5sRqg
Definitely enemies' fault
turbid needle
Sometimes, ||surprise snake !||
proven osprey
"ok let me heal real quick"
half crater
yeah like “that was a hard fight, lost a lotta health, better cycle my SD!”
it’s like, yeah, the fight was hard so you can’t do that you moron
dry ember
the circle of life
half crater
smart
proven osprey
thank you
mossy light
what are the best boons when you have the demeter artemis duo
mostly demeter crystal upgrades?
void fjord
All demeter cast related
Like glacial glare
Then Arctic blast since it's cast will inflict chill
mossy light
i think i messed up by equipping my demeter keepsake too early, ive only got 2 base boon slots filled
void fjord
As long as u hsve her cast ull be fine
proven osprey
ravenous will should be poggers
void fjord
Well depends on the mirror
mossy light
who uses stygian soul? youre thinking infernal
half crater
loads of people use stygian
willow fossil
^
mossy light
really?
half crater
it’s basically just better for non sticking casts
void fjord
Well i run Stygian
willow fossil
Yep
void fjord
So yikes
half crater
and if i’m not doing a cast build, it’s way more convenient for utilising boiling blood
void fjord
My cast runs are usually with dio or ares
That too
Also getting chaos boons that give more casts are pog on Stygian
mossy light
hmm
void fjord
Ur throwing 2 casts every 3s as compared to waiting for it to drop out
mossy light
if i take trippy shot for example, i can drop 3 shots and collect them all in say... 7-8 seconds
void fjord
Im only running infernal to get the Zeus arty duo for the prophecy
mossy light
if i used stygian, id drop 3 shots in maybe 6?
void fjord
Yes
mossy light
huhhm
cunning urchin
what are the best boons when you have the demeter artemis duo
mostly demeter crystal upgrades?
That and Fully Loaded.
mossy light
im not getting fully loaded
void fjord
Well with casts fully loaded always helps
mossy light
because if im going for demeter boons i likely wont have the artemis prereqs in elysium
half crater
also the value of not having to go pick up bloodstones is actually pretty great
cunning urchin
Just need Pressure Points and Support Fire.
half crater
partly it’s just convenient, but it can be genuinely life saving sometimes
void fjord
Fully loaded is ez to get now
mossy light
i dont have those, so id need 3 artemis boons, and im saving gold for the styx shop
cunning urchin
Not easy exactly, but a lot easier than it used to be.
half crater
i think they mean 3 including the legendary
cunning urchin
Oh if you're saving all your gold, yeah.
Buying up bounties?
I think I can count the bounties I spent obols on on one hand lol.
mossy light
yup
void fjord
Just sell ur duos
cunning urchin
But yeah, that's different then if you're playing to farm stuff like that.
void fjord
Like hazard bomb on eris
cunning urchin
Just sell all your boons.
half crater
i kinda wish cast duos had secret interactions if you sell their prereq cast and get another one
void fjord
Imagine true shot just shooting out blizzards cause of pos and dem duo
cunning urchin
Secret interactions that 0.0001% will find out. That's a good strategy for SGG.
cunning urchin
How do you know it's not already a thing, yeah?
void fjord
Or have they
half crater
void fjord
lol we all did the same thing
cunning urchin
Maybe in the test branch.
They gave us 100% crit chance for a time in the test branch.
That's just the next step up from that, right?
void fjord
Hmmmmm time to get blizzard shot and then true to see what happens
half crater
do it
mossy light
what trinket do yall use in elysium if you arent looking for a boon in particular? though, i assume yall swap to athena for divine dash
void fjord
The next step is everything u do is double damage and enemies do half as much
half crater
if no one proves this false, i will be forced to start a conspiracy theory about it
half crater
i go hourglass or acorn
cunning urchin
If I want Divine Dash, I'll 100% take her keepsake in Tartarus or Asphodel already.
void fjord
Yea at that point i prolly have no dash or pos or aphro dash
Well pos on bow and rail runs
jovial harness
Oh huh you can guarantee four specific gods per run if you really want
mossy light
huhhm. i always start with the cthonic purse since i have the investment perk
cunning urchin
Coin Purse, Hourglass, Cosmic Egg, Acorn are all good picks in Elysium.
mossy light
nobody uses moms blossom?
cunning urchin
I don't take Pom Blossom in Elysium.
void fjord
Not really viable late game
jovial harness
I haven't been thinking about all the ways to take advantage of keepsake switching
cunning urchin
I might take in the Temple of Styx.
bleak jay
I haven't gotten it yet lol
void fjord
Too many boons
half crater
i view the blossom as an alternate game mode, like plume or butterfly
i either ignore it or take it the whole way and try to only have one boon
jovial harness
Is there any limit to poms
cunning urchin
Pom Blossom works after encounters. I'm actually hoping to avoid encounters in Elysium.
mossy light
@jovial harness keepsake switching is fun. i start with the purse, then grab god keepsakes for boons
jovial harness
Yeah coin purse is the obvious one
half crater
as far as we know there’s no level limit on boons, no
cunning urchin
But it's a guaranteed +1 every tunnel in the Temple of Styx, so you're getting at least +2 out of it.
void fjord
I wonder if SSG knows that you don't have to run a keepsake for it to be equipped for the prophecy
cunning urchin
Supersiant Games?
void fjord
Lol my b
half crater
the evil twin company of SGG
void fjord
SGG
proven osprey
I got 5s athena call once thanks to pom, was funny
jovial harness
I'm about to start just taking gold touch or whatever it's called and aiming to buy a bounty every run
Probably faster than waiting to get a god build and way faster than waiting until I get good
void fjord
Lol i have gotten that @proven osprey but with smouldering air
proven osprey
proven osprey
nah
mossy light
my biggest objection to the music is that i cant have the king and the bull play for every theseus fight
proven osprey
Proud Bearing
jovial harness
I just want to max out demeter fist, it's gonna be a ridiculous difference between rank 2 where it is now, and max
mossy light
man, the crystal spell is so weird, it feels like im playing a TD
solid cairn
crystal meme
mossy light
ive got the right boons to make it work. lesse if i can beat EM3 theseus without getting slaughtered
that was my best EM3 clear yet, though i did embarass myself by dashing behind theseus and mashing attack with the 4th bow
still vigil
Just wanted to come in once again to say aphrodite let me make way more mistakes on gilgamesh than I should've been allowed to
mossy light
as it should
cunning urchin
Lady Aphrodite is the best. 💗
mossy light
her spell is mediocre though
cunning urchin
Spell?
mossy light
cast
cunning urchin
Her Cast is good.
mossy light
its melee range
proven osprey
not with Hera 
mossy light
yeah, hera aphrocast is good
but the biggest crime against her cast is that its not a duo build around
cunning urchin
Range don't matter if things just die from it.
silent talon
just like she said
proven osprey
hm..
silent talon
interesting right
cunning ibex
so aspect of zagreus on the spear only affects special right?
mossy light
yes
surreal creek
whats a braindead easy sword ,build for low heat? no aspects if possible
sour prairie
how does arctic blast work
if it triggers once
can it trigger more
even if the enemy has 10 stacks?
mossy light
you have to get back to 10 stacks
sour prairie
so it can't keep triggering from like.. aspect of chiron
cunning urchin
@surreal creek Divine Strike, Divine Dash.
mossy light
@surreal creek attack attack special as a combo... and build around attack or your first god?
sour prairie
does that make arctic blast rather mediocre?
mossy light
@surreal creek if you hang around we can guide you through boon selection i guess?
still vigil
If you have both epic sweet surrender and aphrodite attack, which one should I aim to pom more?
mossy light
@sour prairie yes
surreal creek
id prefer just a general build guide like what do i go for for first god and do i go for a duo boon?
mossy light
i let the game pick my first and second gods and i just go for their duo boon
proven osprey
We've got a super nice and kind and cute and humble person who made a guide, see in #h1-for-new-players , pinned
surreal creek
@cunning urchin divine strike and dash are athena boons right?
drifting vale
Yes
sour prairie
I wonder if you can do some silly things with doom and chiron bow
with the stacking ability
drifting vale
I would imagine so
cunning urchin
If you want just basic builds for base weapons, there's a guide pinned in #h1-for-new-players.
That's a good starting point.
surreal creek
@cunning urchin ok but just real quick. do i go for any duo boons or just those 2 and see what i get?
cunning urchin
If you want to go for a Duo Boon with that, get Deadly Flourish or True Shot from Lady Artemis for Deadly Reversal.
But just having Deflect on Attack and Dash already makes it very forgiving and helps with a lot of things.
kindred estuary
any good gods that go with guan yu?
kindred trout
Hera AphroCast is good but so is Poseidon. (I'm sure Achilles is good too, haven't tried it). Blown Kiss does make it much better but isn't strictly necessary. I got Blown Kiss and Exit Wounds on Poseidon so the short range just meant it was easy to retrieve them with special.
Can you get Mirage Shot with Aphro cast?
mossy light
yes. though it doesnt sound great
robust anchor
but hera negates the short range
kindred trout
You can get Mirage Shot on any cast.
@cunning urchin Wait, even Crystal Gaze and Blade Rift?
cunning urchin
Sure.
unreal hull
calm sandal
Ok I get where non hestia rail gets all of its damage from.
It has low base damage so it felt kind of weak when running aphrodite, artemis, and especially posieden, but now that I am trying out zeus a level 1 common boon literally doubles the gun dps
calm sandal
What kinds of weapons is it better to take Zeus vs Dio attack?
cinder flower
What's probably the best spear aspect
gray dagger
How much crit chance can I really get on my attack? It feels like the answer is not very much
unkempt pagoda
You can get Mirage Shot on any cast.
idk where people are getting that mirage shot is a specific cast morph instead of a general cast buff lol
it's like parting shot
How much crit chance can I really get on my attack? It feels like the answer is not very much
i mean, there's a lot of different ways to get crit chance, so depends on what you mean
there's deadly flourish and pressure points for base artemis boons, but also at least 2 of her duo boons give you global critical chance
and then there are aspects that give base crit chance (nemesis and zag bow), and hammers that do the same (like cruel thrust)
and then the biggest source of crit chance is probably hunter's mark, which is +30% chance at common
gray dagger
I’m talking flat anything that gives crit on attacks, no questions asked
So, Zag aspect bow, but not mark
unkempt pagoda
likely zag bow with deadly flourish and pressure points (technically infinite with pom levels, but let's assume epic at +4%)
so 29% crit chance without doing anything
gray dagger
That feels so low tbh
Maybe that’s because I come from games with
100% crit chance
gray dagger
I guess 30% is high for Hades
Speaking of the bow
I feel like the 300% damage, and the reduced range double shot
marsh patrol
i mean if you get a nutty 12 arrow bow that 30% is really high for 12 chance
gray dagger
Are complete ass
unkempt pagoda
if you move into things like mark, that's an easy +60% crit chance
nah, twin shot is bow's best hammer imo
gray dagger
Twin shot is only good with demeter boons imo
unkempt pagoda
explosive is okay, don't like it too much
gray dagger
Idk I guess I use the bow cause I hate being close to people
unkempt pagoda
if you can dodge with melee weapons, twin shot is completely fine
marsh patrol
i cant dodge with melee weapons
gray dagger
Same
unkempt pagoda
twin shot needs the player to know enemy patterns and to know when to dodge, so i get it
gray dagger
I def can’t beat Elysium with melee rn
marsh patrol
i feel like i have a horrible time dodging big || daddy || but i can dodge anything else fine as melee
gray dagger
Twin shot felt great with demeter boons
unkempt pagoda
but if you get it down, it's free double damage, practically no cost
gray dagger
But otherwise I just sacrifice so much range
unkempt pagoda
the best melee build in the game is triple shot + point-blank 😛
gray dagger
Imo flurry is the best hammer for bow
marsh patrol
theres a triple shot?
unkempt pagoda
flurry is also s tier, i agree
marsh patrol
whats flurry again?
gray dagger
Rapid fire
unkempt pagoda
triple shot is meant to be crowd control, but you can hit all the arrows if you get really close to an enemy
this works best on bow4
gray dagger
Shhhh I haven’t unlocked bow4 yet
unkempt pagoda
🤫
gray dagger
I beat my first run earlier today
finite socket
Twin Shot is just really awful because the amount of range you sacrifice is huge
marsh patrol
ah right
gray dagger
That’s generally how I feel
unkempt pagoda
¯_(ツ)_/¯
marsh patrol
i had a rapid fire build with crit on it and it just felt amazing
finite socket
I actually picked it on my Chiron run
gray dagger
Rapid fire twin shot with chill is very good
finite socket
And i just felt a huge oof
unkempt pagoda
twin shot requires you to know enemy patterns and play well
gray dagger
I think chiron sucks tbh
finite socket
It's actually great with Dio
marsh patrol
currently im liking chill with relentless volley with the aspect that makes the special home in on a target
unkempt pagoda
but i definitely wouldn't put it on chiron lol
relentless + concentrated is the way to go
finite socket
I didn't even know so
gray dagger
Chill blast + twin shot is a good synergy
finite socket
There was no Concentrated Volley at the hammer
marsh patrol
i was lucky to get concentrated volley and relentless in the same run earlier
easy 2.4k damage per special
marsh patrol
i only dash attack with melee
both of my spear clears have been a dash attack build that causes triple dash attacks at once
unkempt pagoda
dash attack should be the only method of damage on any attack bow, unless you're playing flurry fire (in which case it's fine to stand still a little)
gritty pendant
Hey what's a good Chaos Shield Build?
silent talon
what is the best build for stygian blade ? i use the upgrade where i have crit% after each special, any tips ?
unkempt pagoda
double edge, spam dash strike
silent talon
i have cleared the game for about 15 times atm but i am still figuring out what boones to use together
unkempt pagoda
get aphrodite attack (and either artemis dash or athena dash), spam dash strikes with double edge hammer
willow fossil
i have cleared the game for about 15 times atm but i am still figuring out what boones to use together
I have cleared the game around 150 times, and i have the same problem, youre fine
median lintel
just had a run where i charmed Thesues as he was doing his Aid thing and melted half of Asterius' health bar
weak moat
dashing flight, charged shot, and explosive return are all really nice for chaos @limber flax
lament perch
TIL mirage shot works on blade rift
tender stirrup
Is it just me or does Piercing Volley drastically reduce the range of your special's arrows on Aspect of Chiron?
I feel like I keep getting baited by this because there's no reason it should work that way
cunning urchin
Piercing Volley is kinda weird on Chiron lol.
tender stirrup
yeah I only ever take it because there isn't something I actually want in the upgrade menu
the only real upside is killing the shield guys in Elysium faster
proven osprey
I missclicked on a trove, get damaged during the trial, left the room without opening it
perfection
gloomy canyon
if you start charging a bow shot when coming out of a dash, does that count as a dash-strike? Or are those specifically the uncharged attacks?
worn crypt
Will having a boon of one type, say an attack, decrease the chances of finding an attack from another god? It feels like it does but I'm not sure. (answer is yes)
cunning urchin
@gloomy canyon yeah, those are Dash-Strikes.
worn crypt
Nvm found an answer from a few days ago
cunning urchin
They'll do less damage but charge faster.
gloomy canyon
thanks, good to know. I was worried that I shouldn't have taken that dash-strike boon
haughty robin
For rama bow, in order to be good at it, do you need to know your damages really well?
Most of the time I still go "I hit things until they die" because no more has been required of me.
mighty ermine
what do you mean by knowing your damages really well?
haughty robin
Like after you mark something, know whether to power shot or regular shot and which enemy to go for with the slow one
I don't clear rooms very efficiently with it.
mighty ermine
kinda comes with practice. rama power shots are very worth it, and doable a lot of the time if you space yourself from approaching enemies well enough
but for low health enemies, or breaking a small bit of armor, it's okay to just point blank a quick shot
or if you need to get away but can still hit them before dashing, those are good too
haughty robin
You're the 55 heat guy right?
mighty ermine
lol i am
haughty robin
Question was actually inspired by your run, I never felt like I was misplaying a weapon so hard lmao
mighty ermine
yeah, rama has a weird cadence that can take some getting used to. if you keep using it and mind your spacing, you'll get better at it
haughty robin
Yeah I think chiron did me a disservice in that regard, you get away with just running.
Barely have to space if you just want to clear 32 heat with it.
Was Dionysus special what you wanted the most?
mighty ermine
dio is one of the best for special just right out of the box, yeah
also pairs great with deadly strike, since you enable splitting headache
haughty robin
Oh man when I saw splitting headache crossed out for you I was so sad
limber flax
is high voltage any good with chaos shield zeus special?
haughty robin
Probably better when you're not shotgunning?
mighty ermine
compared to double strike, not really. decent for working towards splitting bolt all the same, though
limber flax
but it does something huh?
because if i through it into a group of enemies they are all gonna get hit regadless
red hound
does EM4 need to be unlocked?
cinder flower
yes the contractor
willow fossil
Yes
red hound
oh