it's not really telegraphed, I'm better at seeing it coming now but like i said, it took awhile
#h1-builds-and-combat
onyx iron
tranquil violet
Rama + Aphro Cast + Explosive Shot + Triple Shot + Athena dash + Hyper Sprint + x3 extra dashes
= MELEE BOW
Anything is good with those last three but
stark ore
5th bow aspect: lets you smack enemies with the bow itself
stark ore
Actually what would 5th (meme) aspects look like
tranquil violet
Well the sword one would mix things up by actually being good
onyx iron
I actually would dig a lightsaber for 5th sword
tranquil violet
(jk Arthur is fun)
onyx iron
Hades star wars TC when
onyx iron
ooo
tranquil violet
Idk how this works gameplay wise but it would be really fun just to see.
Maybe get Bastion and Pyre represented in other weapons.
stark ore
5th sword: Lets you throw your sword, impaling enemies
5th spear: Lets you stun enemies with the stick part of the spear
5th shield: Cannot block, instead parries and deflects
5th bow: Melee bow
5th fists: WWE madness
5th rail: Literally just a Glock
onyx iron
lol
orchid viper
5th shield can't attack, is just a shield
tranquil violet
That wouldn't really fit gameplay wise though
orchid viper
what do u think meme aspect means
tranquil violet
I mean there are good memes and not so good memes...
5th sword realistically could be say, a rapier?
That prioritizes dash strikes as stabs
5th spear could be, idk, tbh
onyx iron
I really like the transistor idea tbh
tranquil violet
5th shield, I think a parry rather than block mechanic would be quite cool
5th bow... uh... again idk
stark ore
A rapier would be sick, Dead Cells' rapier basically makes it deal more damage after a roll or parry so a sword based on dash strikes and dodging would be sick
tranquil violet
5th fists should be sandals
5th rail again idk
A literal AK-47?
Grant me the aspect of Gopnik!
tranquil violet
Seems like Eris kinda does that already
stark ore
I mean you have Hestia for burst damage, Lucifer for constant damage, and Eris for scrubs being in the middle I guess
mossy light
i think i prefer boiling blood to the damage booster
tranquil violet
Press X to Helicopter Loukaniko
stark ore
Make your enemies so uncomfortable they spontaneously explode
tranquil violet
Aspects inspired by previous supergiant games would be fun though
tranquil violet
Aspect of Zulf: your rail now instead of shooting bullets builds a wall, digs a hole...
someday that wall is gonna fall
(Specifically after 3s)
I may be biased but I'd enjoy just Camerata/Red aspects for every weapon tbh
But that's kinda forced.
cunning urchin
Eris has constant burst damage lol.
stark ore
That’s not called burst damage then, it’s called being OP
Was Eris good before the buff? Even at lvl. 4 it still does tons of damage
untold vortex
it was at +60% max pre 1.0
cunning urchin
Eris was slept on.
untold vortex
people where expecting Eris to get nerfed with 1.0 and it got buffed instead
cunning urchin
Well, more like we were still going through aspects one by one for high heat and probably the same for speedrunners.
untold vortex
and now top speedrunning times are Eris, Eris and more Eris
cunning urchin
You forgot to mention Eris.
untold vortex
you're right, I did forget to mention Eris, how could I
https://www.speedrun.com/hades - the whole top 20 is Eris Rail with a rogue Demeter fists and 2 Hera bows
tranquil violet
But wait what about Eris?
Speed running times shouldn't necessarily be a guide to balance though.
untold vortex
when the majority of the top 20 is one aspect, balance is off somewhere
untold vortex
never said it was
cunning urchin
It's not just top 20. All of top 60 is Eris + the odd ME run or whatever lol.
untold vortex
wow, that's kinda nuts
tranquil violet
How (and how much) would you nerf Eris to bring it in line?
Just cut the buff or...?
mellow quest
Even at 50% it would be strong
untold vortex
Eris was 60 pre 1.0
tranquil violet
Is that enough to put other aspects within distance?
untold vortex
and it's at 75% now
tranquil violet
If it's that tight a margin it probably doesn't matter to the average player
Ah yeah my bad
cunning urchin
Eris tbh shouldn't give global damage to begin with.
tranquil violet
If it just gave damage to attack and not everything
That would be pretty substantial
But maybe too much?
Would pigeonhole its builds a lot
cunning urchin
It makes sense on something like Gilgamesh where it's a debuff that comes with a downside.
tranquil violet
But Girugamesh only is flat damage that nothing else affects?
It's not scalable?
I think?
It doesn't play into the greater Doom ecosystem
mellow quest
You'd better pay more attention to what maim does then lol
It's more than just damage
tranquil violet
I mean sure. I guess.
cunning urchin
Global damage would also make sense on Talos because it's a single-target debuff.
tranquil violet
25% for 50% feels pretty fair though
cunning urchin
Eris's buff is so free, it might as well just be +75% damage without having to stand in the explosion. That would make barely any difference.
tranquil violet
It does feel like the most free buff
mellow quest
There's nothing fail about 50% increased damage on everything but ok
untold vortex
+25% you deal for HL2.5 is incredibly risky
cunning urchin
Maim adds +25% damage, but you take +50% damage, yeah.
Gilgamesh is a lot better in the tech branch, but it's still very risky.
untold vortex
it's 35% with a hammer
mellow quest
Ugh
untold vortex
it never gets to 50
mellow quest
I should just stop relying on memory
cunning urchin
Anyway, point is that global damage should be on debuffs that you need to constantly apply to enemies, you shouldn't just get a free +75% global damage buff on every enemy for standing in a circle.
untold vortex
mmhm agreed
cunning urchin
And it's a ranged weapon too lol.
untold vortex
(I could be wrong about the hammer though it's been a minute since I've looked at it)
cunning urchin
If Nemesis's crit chance applied to everything, that would still be less than +75% damage.
Rending Claws adds +25% damage and +30% slow.
untold vortex
for some reason I was thinking it did +15% and 30% slow
the various iterations of that hammer got mixed up in my head
mellow drift
Im on heat 7-10 with most the weaps rn and I have to ask: Which is better deep pockets or golden touch?
untold vortex
how do you tend to spend your obols?
wide plover
deep pockets if things are difficult, golden touch if you breeze through and try to buy blood/diamond at the end
mellow drift
I spend usually at the wells and almost never go into shops but I feel as if some runs goldentouch barely makes any interest while pockets only gets me at least one shop boon
wide plover
if you actually need to spend money before 3-4 zone, pockets are better
mellow drift
Yeah that sounds about right, I’m keepin golden touch on then. Thanks for the help 👌
flint remnant
last post in #h1-victory-boasting - very silly combo with exagryph's hidden aspect and athena's special
Things just randomly deflecting all over the place
covert rock
Any idea with the third bossfight?
With the minotaur, and Thesus?
I'm using the spear btw.
half crater
Theseus can't do much to you (in his first phase) if you stay away from him and hide behind pillars when he throws his spear, so the general strat is to keep your distance from him and focus on Asterius, killing the bull completely before you phase Theseus.
covert rock
There's a second phase???
half crater
They don't have additional healthbars; they just get a couple of seconds of invulnerability when you reduce them to half health
and in the second half of Theseus' health bar he starts calling the gods, which is a great old time (not really) and that's why its usually recommended to kill Asterius completely before then so you don't have to worry about a bull yeeting around while you're trying to deal with everything else
covert rock
Alright, thank you!
Let's see if I reach them in first place and manage to beat them.
I'm trying to go with Aphrodite, cause the damage reduction is nice.
Also, I once had the machine gun and Dionysus Hangover. Stacking the dot felt amazing.
half crater
aphrodite is rarely a bad choice; she also has the highest +% damage modifiers in the game
covert rock
Yeah. +70% on my attacks is amazing.
half crater
dio on rail can be alright, another great one to try there is zeus
covert rock
Zeus on spear or the gun?
half crater
on the gun its amazing
covert rock
I'll try that. But first I wanna finish a run with the spear.
half crater
you'll get there; it takes most people a while to get their first clear
covert rock
Yeah, I'm sure of it.
It's my first time with this kind of game anyway.
But I love it. Especially that characters react differently each time you come back after your death.
half crater
oh nice
covert rock
If that fury and Zagreus don't end up together... :<
half crater
roguelikes can be a bit daunting to newcomers sometimes, what with the no checkpoints and stuff, so good on you for embracing it
yeah the writing in this game is really good
and there's like
so much of it
covert rock
Exactly.
It's a fantastic game.
Only wish we could make decisions throughout the game.
So like... you favour certain gods, who give better boons to the dislikes of other gods.
iron shale
@covert rock one thing that maybe helps with pushing through
besides getting better at the game skill wise
with every run you get more resources to improve the mirror
which makes the game ALOT easier
iron shale
= D
covert rock
It's hard as hecc, I imagine.
iron shale
i guess pray for cursed slash
half crater
i believe my current record is the elysium boss fight
covert rock
And yeah, I'm actually glad that we always start the run anew.
What adds to that is that there are no frustrating sections.
The fire can be a little annoying, but that's about it.
covert rock
xD
covert rock
I still stand by my point that Zagreus and the first Fury need to become a thing.
I feel very sorry for killing her constantly. :<
iron shale
i also dont want to spoil that here so i refrain from answering
cunning urchin
She wouldn't feel sorry for killing you, though.
covert rock
Yeye.
iron shale
cunning urchin
There's a build guide for base weapons pinned in #h1-for-new-players, by the way. That might help you.
iron shale
jsut because in here spoilers are allowed
covert rock
Alrighty.
iron shale
so you might see things you wouldnt want to
covert rock
I'll be in discussion, I think.
iron shale
btw nyaa
is there any weapon were you focus on doom without the athena duo boon ?
iron shale
ok 
cunning urchin
I guess if you're getting Curse of Pain on Rama, then you wouldn't care about ME.
iron shale
man doom just seems kinda underwhelming
cunning urchin
Curse of Agony already offers the best DPS on Malphon, that's far from underwhelming.
It's just that if you're going for that, might as well go for Merciful End, too.
iron shale
wait
why does it ?
i mean agony by itself
of course its great with merciful end
but why is it the best dps ?
wouldnt like zeus be better ?
cunning urchin
Nope. You can just apply Doom to everything. Lightning Strike can kind of match that depending on how crowded your enemies are.
surreal creek
atm the only aspects i have upgraded is hera bow like 1-2 levels and chaos shield to 2-3 extra shields thrown. also on zag shield but that was before i understood what i was doing. so i need a build to farm blood. preferably for hera bow, chaos shield since they are the only aspects i have upgraded. i just need a rough idea of what to go for. atm im in very low heat, but i think ill just go to high heat with the bow, then high heat with shield etc. also in my mirror i have up untill olympian favor/dark foresight. what mirror upgrades should i focus on? other than defiance and dashes
cunning urchin
Even on a single target, you don't get enough hits in between Doom tics to beat Curse of Agony.
iron shale
hm
cunning urchin
Yeah, but even without ME, it's the best.
cunning urchin
Infernal Blood + Flood Shot for Hera, and try to get Deadly Strike or Deadly Flourish so that you can get their Duo Boon.
iron shale
@surreal creek i mean if you wanna farm fast blood just go do the low heat runs with each weapon
surreal creek
yeah but i dont have aspects for each weapon so i think ill do like heat 1-2 and at least get meg and her sisters. after that just focus on shield and bow untill high heat so i can upgrade the next weapon and repeay
cunning urchin
Stygian Soul + Trippy Shot is also pretty good. You'll want a core boon from Lady Demeter in your build to unlock their Duo Boon.
cunning urchin
And ideally from Lord Zeus, too, to also get that Duo Boon.
surreal creek
@cunning urchin can you please quickly dm an overwiev of what keepsakes/boons to get so i can come back to it
cunning urchin
I mean, you can just copy-paste it into notepad or something. 
surreal creek
just cuz it all is like scattered over multiple messeges and i think u gave me 2 different builds
cunning urchin
Yeah, those are two different builds.
surreal creek
excatly and i dont wanna mix them up
covert rock
Back at Thesus I am. Wish me luck.
cunning urchin
Good luck!
iron shale
@cunning urchin whats your favorite malphon aspect ?
cunning urchin
It's actually Zagreus Aspect.
covert rock
Thank you kindly.
I'm gonna go there and get spanked again.
Death does not hold me.
proven osprey
That's the spirit 
iron shale
especially on 20 heat +
cunning urchin
You should try Gilgamesh in the test branch, let them know how you feel about the changes.
iron shale
oh they changed it ?
cunning urchin
Yeah, read #test-branch-updates.
cunning urchin
Hurray!
coarse tendon
lol just discovered that hades aid (sigil of the dead) removes poison on use
and seems you can run through poison pools while stealthed
mellow drift
Yo what really?
That's some valuable information to me cuz I never can dodge the satyr spit
coarse tendon
yeah it seems pretty good, gonna use it on more runs in styx
plain mantle
Wow I've been sleeping on the zeus aspect of the shield
It absolutely melts redacted
I'm not sure on its viability on higher heat, but it's super fun to play
cunning urchin
Anything is viable for 40, at least.
plain mantle
Time to try it then
wide plover
can you change a boon into trial with fated authority?
cunning urchin
I think only miniboss chambers can reroll into that? I don't really use Fated Authority.
But I know it's possible.
wide plover
hmm, ok
surreal creek
i have 6 titan blood atm. what do i use it on? atm zag shield is lv3, chaos shield lv2 and hera bow lv2. i need to use it wisely cuz i want a weapon that can carry me with ex builds. carry me to high heat so i can farm more blood for another aspect after that
im thinking, chaos shield or hera bow. maybe zag fists but idk
surreal creek
i only played a bit of chaos shield but ig doom build? havnt tried too many builds. with hera bow i also only really went dio cast
but ur saying max chaos shield and go doom special?
into duo boons like the atena one
surreal creek
really? hmm. havnt treied that before but ig id try it out
void fjord
but doom special with aphro atk is pretty good
if you get their duo you can kinda play it safe
surreal creek
so go for zeus keepsake untill i get his special and jolted. after that go aphro and a defensive for hades fight
cinder flower
this is my first time playing lucifer,which one do I want? || https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/369256100954112027/769916748207095838/unknown.png ||
cinder flower
not 3?
cinder flower
hm I would of guessed 3 because of the Poseidon boon
stuck elbow
You can get away with eternal with like Zeus but even then it isn’t always ideal
void fjord
i suggest getting zeus attack for rail
stuck elbow
Like you’d only really take it with a maxed lighting setup
cunning urchin
If you want a weapon that carries, put everything into Eris.
unkempt scroll
Is it a good idea to try out EM3/4 with fists...?
cunning urchin
Depends on how much you like to suffer.
cinder flower
I always do EM4 (when at 10 heat+)
cunning urchin
I don't take EM3+ with Malphon unless I have to at high heat.
cinder flower
TBH I find EM3 easier than the normal 3rd boss fight lol
the shield is hella annoying
unkempt scroll
Then what should I use??
It's the fists I've come the furthest with, but I should practice on FO and EM sooner or later 😐
I prefer the normal...
It's so easy to counter the shield. The driving is so annoying...
And het still has a shield when his hp is at 50%... So I don't see the point of EM3 and that complaint of a shield
cunning urchin
The shield kinda doesn't matter. You just dash behind him, hold Attack down, and then Dash-Strike to reset your combo or empty-dash sometimes when he spins—or not because he dies so fast anyway.
unkempt scroll
Pretty much.
The. EM3 just makes it harder
cunning urchin
Well, I guess if you don't have a DPS summon maxed, it's a bit slower because you have to pick and choose when to summon. 
cinder flower
still E3 is just easy heat htough
unkempt scroll
I have a few summons, but they're lvl 4
cunning urchin
EM3 is just annoying because he zooms all over the place and you have evade those shockwaves from Asterius all the time.
I mean, EM3 alone doesn't really matter, but if you take FO2, which is not really a problem for Malphon, then EM3 is just awful.
unkempt scroll
Which is why I'm unsure what weapon I should use... I'm used to the fists, but...
I'm not gonna take both at the same time. Either one of them
unkempt scroll
I'm not a masochist...
cunning urchin
Yeah, on other weapons EM3 is not really an issue.
unkempt scroll
Well, I guess aspect of Chiron on the bow is decent enough with freeze + explode... 🤔
unkempt scroll
Well excuse me for not being good enough to experimenting with combos...
cinder flower
dion + athena +(maybe ares too) is just fantastic, artmis is still good, extreme doom stacking is still good,
unkempt scroll
... All that in one run? Uhh
Do you mean the duo between Athena and... the drunk one?
cinder flower
yes
unkempt scroll
... That seems rather useless to me...
cinder flower
how so? aphro attack + dion special, 8 stacks of hangover on one special
also triggers prilvaged status
unkempt scroll
I was looking at the Athena/Dionysus duo, not Aphro...
unkempt scroll
+3 stacks of hangover... Only seems good if you can do 10-20 dps/stack...
cinder flower
Which is easily achievable
unkempt scroll
In my opinion, the later bosses has way too much hp
My highest is 10/stack...
And it somehow hit 100/sec, Idk wtf it was doing...
cinder flower
.35 if you also get the ares boon
half crater
indeed
cunning urchin
Low Tolerance build is amazing on Chiron, anyway.
cinder flower
yea ares is just extra if you have decent luck with boons
half crater
2 duos isn’t as uncommon as you might think
unkempt scroll
I guess... But I can't imagining myself to get it to be effective enough...
cinder flower
yeah 2 duos is easily achievable
half crater
but yeah it’s generally best to just shoot for one, and grab the other if you get lucky
unkempt scroll
I've had 60-ish runs, and my best is a duo+legendary...
cinder flower
Are you making sure you meet the proper pre-req for each duo?
it should tell you in your codex or wiki
unkempt scroll
It was nice dps, though...
cunning urchin
You just rotate Dash-Strike > Special and apply Hangover to everything.
half crater
honestly the easiest chiron build to get working is still aphro attack + arty special -> heart rend imo
unkempt scroll
Uhh, I think so?
But at that run it was sea storm + the legendary that gives an extra push for Poseidon boon
cinder flower
concentrated volley for that sweet cherry ontop
unkempt scroll
... Is that the one with extra shots??
half crater
that’s relentless volley
unkempt scroll
Or more dmg/shot hit??
cinder flower
concentrated volley deals +3base damage for each consecutive hit on a foe
proven parcel
It's the one that does more dmg per consecutive hit
cinder flower
which is a lot
unkempt scroll
Ahh, okay
cunning urchin
If you want to see some math for Drunken Flourish on Chiron and why it's good: #h1-high-heat-strategies message
unkempt scroll
And with Chiron it's almost guaranteed hits
cinder flower
filthy
half crater
i tried to do drunken chiron once but i ended up doing a trippy shot build instead lol
leaden prism
What's the best fist aspect?
half crater
i keep doing that by accident
leaden prism
my worst weapon
half crater
demeter
leaden prism
what boons am I looking for with chaos shield?
half crater
zeus special + jolted is the standard
unkempt scroll
Well, I guess I'll try out the Dio/Aphro duo...Well, I'll try, anyway
proven parcel
It works great
unkempt scroll
Is the drunken special still worth with just 5/stack?
cinder flower
yes
proven parcel
Yes.
cinder flower
make sure you take privileged status
leaden prism
anything else other than zeus?
half crater
doom works
leaden prism
no I mean to supplement zeus
proven parcel
Maybe artemis?
half crater
after you have special+jolted, you ideally want double strike so you qualify for the legendary
high voltage or storm lightning works to qualify as well, but they don’t do as much damage obviously
once you have that legendary, you’re pretty set
leaden prism
Dashing flight or breaching rush?
proven parcel
I'd take dash
leaden prism
and any other gods?
half crater
breaching rush, probably
hammers don’t matter that much for chaos tho
ideally, you wanna grab either arty (for support fire) or ares on attack
and divine dash never goes astray ofc
spare scaffold
I did it, I beat EM4 dad
posted my build in #h1-victory-boasting, supercharged Dio cast + Dio/Demeter and Dio/Zeus makes him much more tolerable
cunning urchin
Then what should I use??
It's the fists I've come the furthest with, but I should practice on FO and EM sooner or later 😐
@unkempt scroll finally found my screenshot. Just wanna say it's perfectly fine to play only Malphon if you're having success with that lol. https://imgur.com/a/D6dx4wG
That's me ~4 months ago. 
unkempt scroll
Beat EM1 with taking dmg once or twice, at least... The greenish fog that can come, does that do dmg?
boreal ermine
With the furies? I think it just obscures your vision?
half crater
yeah it doesn’t do any damage it just makes it harder to see
unkempt scroll
Ahh, okay. I didn't like to try and risk it doing dmg, so I always tried to get out, so I never noticed it x)
boreal ermine
Anyone have any tips for finishing a run in a fresh save? Possible to do it first time?
unkempt scroll
And now I've gotten the pre-reqs for the Aphro/Dio duo... now I just need the duo :I
Also got the... the one that does more dmg/special hit :3
Uhm, I don't think so
I'm pretty sure you need at least the extra dash...
boreal ermine
Hrmm
unkempt scroll
Otherwise I think it's pretty much impossible to beat the final boss
Unless if you're good enough to time it correctly every time...
cunning urchin
Nah, you can def beat him with 1 dash.
half crater
there’s an entire speedrunning category for fresh save files
it’s very hard, but absolutely possible
unkempt scroll
Sure, but you need to time it correctly. But would be impossible if you're new.
boreal ermine
I think stygius with no hammers and limited boons will be more damaging than the dash
cunning urchin
Get Divine Dash from the first boon and shoot for Merciful End if you want to do it first run.
unkempt scroll
I get hit even when I use divine dash...
cunning urchin
Well, it doesn't make you invincible lol.
Anyway, the key really is getting Merciful End.
unkempt scroll
Why's that?
boreal ermine
Is that the only boon that makes it feasible?
half crater
merciful end does a lot of damage, has defence built in, and isn’t dependant on specific weapon aspects
some aspects make it better ofc, but even zag sword can do it just fine
i wouldn’t say it’s the only boon that could make it work
cunning urchin
You could do it without Merciful End, but you will 100% see both Lady Athena and Lord Ares in your run, and ME is the best build you can get on base sword.
There's no reason not to go for that.
half crater
i wonder if anyone has done no boons fresh save yet
that feels like the kind of thing someone will do at some point
half crater
see, this is why people who are good at this game exist
so i can experience cool things vicariously, with zero effort
proven osprey
Well
surreal creek
@void fjord hey dude. just got my second ever hades win with your zeus build first time trying it too so thx
proven osprey
Fresh file is already a Speedrun category
void fjord
nice
proven osprey
A good runner could try boonless
void fjord
to more more wins @surreal creek
cunning urchin
I think there are maybe a handful of people who could lol.
proven osprey
Sure
robust anchor
:(
unkempt scroll
I'm about to get into EM3, any tips? 🤔
cunning urchin
Don't get hit.
unkempt scroll
Duh...
cunning urchin
Get both of their HP bars to 0.
marsh pumice
and keep yours above 0
cunning urchin
Yes.
blazing badger
what are the most viable fist builds?
unkempt scroll
Well, I lost about 150 hp, but I didn't lose a DD, at least...
Well, I got the Dio/Ares duo...
gloomy kettle
is still special speed up for shield of chaos good?
full nova
hey all - what are some good builds around ranged spear? thinking maybe going heavy on zeus?
grim dune
what are the most viable fist builds?
@blazing badger late reply but I love zeus, also athena/ares (merciful end) is generally considered to be one of the strongest builds period, so far as I understand it, though I'm not a top tier player.
full nova
@grim dune with which aspects?
finite socket
Zag is just the best overall afaik, dodge chance is pretty valuable
proven osprey
Did you guys try Hades on Switch ? I would not mind buying it twice if it runs smoothly
finite socket
Demeter can work but Gilga and Talos are pretty crappy
harsh pasture
I thought talos was good
finite socket
Only if you like using special
Outside that most people will be using normal attacks so Zag is just the best for that
Dodge chance could save you the least you expect
cunning urchin
Demeter Aspect is definitely the strongest.
grim dune
big chonky punch to delete things
cunning urchin
Talos is great. I did 45 Heat first try with that.
finite socket
It's just that i rarely use specials, i'm mostly dash striking anyways
grim dune
the bonus damage from talos is really nice, it's not quite eris damage but it's pretty nice
torpid wren
Talos doesn't even use the special that much since all you do is cancel after the pull and go ham with attack
grim dune
yeah
cunning urchin
You should get Blizzard Shot on Talos + Mirage Shot.
limber flax
is chrion special good with doom?=
half crater
not really
unkempt pagoda
it's eh
limber flax
okay
tender stirrup
you don't really want doom on the special
you want doom on strike and then another status curse on special
unkempt pagoda
need to get misfortune + impending to really make it work
tender stirrup
for PS
tender stirrup
doom on attack with chiron is fine because you don't attack very often
cunning urchin
I guess it's okay on Attack if you don't plan to Power-Shoot anyway.
tender stirrup
so it's just a flat damage increase
finite socket
^
cunning urchin
Would not be my go-to strategy.
tender stirrup
yeah it's definitely not the best thing you can be doing
finite socket
It's better to go for a stacking debuff (Dio/Demeter) or Artemis for crits
ebon kindle
i would go chill/hangover
unkempt pagoda
bow4 can do a doom special build better than chiron imo
finite socket
My closest run i had Ares Attack + Athena Dash and their Duo
Also, a little question, what i should be aiming for an special build for the Rail?
unkempt pagoda
cluster rocket, any damage modifier god (aphro or artemis work best, as always)
solid cairn
Ok Achilles spear is growing on me super fast
full nova
would I want to run aphro's attack or special for that?
half crater
aphro special if you’re going for unhealthy fixation
aphro attack if you’re going for arty special -> heart rend
median lintel
torpid wren
i feel like his first phase is the hardest phase, imo
proven osprey
Find the switch and you'll be fine
ebon kindle
how does hades trinket work? do enemies not target u while its active?
unkempt scroll
If I want to use the hidden aspect of the shield, should I focus on increase dmg from bull rush? 🤔
Also, is that a good idea to use against EM4, when I barealy beat it last time? 😐
proven osprey
You could train EM4 separately
unkempt scroll
I do not like this shield :I
proven osprey
With no too much pact options
But you gotta train EM4 yeah, even if it is frustrating at first
I do not like it either but I did not play it that much
Sometimes you have to persist a bit, in order to understand the aspect
unkempt scroll
What do you mean?
gray shore
do you mean persist?
unkempt scroll
Ouch... nearly lost a DD against Lernie :c
unkempt scroll
I think they're also sorta similar, those two words.
Hmm, nah. The main head used the... the attack that does AoE, by face-planting... or something
proven osprey
Well, tldr : play more beo maybe you'll like it
Happened to me with a lot of aspects
unkempt scroll
I'm using special as dmg... what do you think? :p
solid cairn
I thought Achilles spear was weird but now I just got a sub 10 time with it and I love it so
proven osprey
It's a viable strategy I believe
solid cairn
Charged flight used to be insane with Beowulf
Now charged flight gives 200% special damage
Before, it gave 400%
proven osprey
Yeah the face planting aoe combined with the terrain can be dangerous
Ah
So special Beo is not a thing anymore ?
solid cairn
Think of a guan yu special build but no health penalty and you can block
Charged flight is still good I think
unkempt scroll
What's charged flight?
proven osprey
Charged skewer but for shield
solid cairn
You can’t get it with aspect of chaos btw
unkempt scroll
Oh, I just got that one
proven osprey
Pew pew
coarse tendon
fists aspect of talos with poseidon special and barrier dmg is ping ponging (drag and knocking) everything to the walls pretty fun xD
unkempt scroll
Okay... I definitely hate this shield...
Not gonna be able to beat EM4 with it...
eager grail
ive got like 6 blood. ive only beat hades twice where should i dump it all
turbid needle
What does shared suffering do?
cinder flower
what dash do you guys take with lucifer? athena?
turbid needle
Nevermind, I just found out
indigo bay
Shared suffering is a good one.
Thats the one that spreads weak to enemies as they die.
I think?
boreal ermine
Nah its on Rama Aspect. It deals 60% of your attack to anyone with shared suffering debuff
shadow magnet
im at the temple of styx... cant decide which route to take, but im against taking the ones with the miniboss icons since ive had an unpleasant time w/the rats n satyrs
i have the shield and it's lvl 3 aspect of ... zagreus i think? for what it's worth
devout ether
Minibosses in styx tend to be easier than regular rooms
shadow magnet
the two paths behind a miniboss are a poseidon boon and a pom of power
devout ether
Save for Tiny Vermin
shadow magnet
hmm
devout ether
I recommend going for health first if there's any
devout ether
Obol if there's a Hermes boon you really want
devout ether
That's what the money is called in Hades
shadow magnet
oh right
well hes selling 2 poms of power at 300 each, a dionysus boon for 150, centaur heart for 125, an anvil for 275, and a titan's blood for 1200
at only 89 gold, i dont think im getting that titan's blood this run
welp, i am not going to survive the fight against hades lol
without a death defiance whatsoever
well i got to phase 2!
turbid needle
yo I recommend bow with the 1st non zag aspect: demeter chill on special and artemis any crit you can get, very beginner friendly build
devout ether
Chiron is better with Artemis special rather than demeter I'd say
shadow magnet
would you recommend aspect of chaos for shield?
mighty ermine
i would recommend any aspect that you think is fun to play
shadow magnet
i havent played many aspects at all
just vanilla weapons
also i got demeter as my starting god, and man all the boons look kinda good
mighty ermine
you can experiment a little by investing blood in the courtyard, taking them out for a run, then giving up and resetting your blood if you don't think you like the idea
shadow magnet
running w/the bow bc it has a shadow collection bonus
how can i reset the blood? too late for me to go back and do it now, ive already started a run
mighty ermine
because the give up option takes you back to your last house save, which is usually entering the courtyard
so unless you invest blood, go into your room and back out, the blood investment will undo itself after you give up
blazing badger
@grim dune ty sir!
shadow magnet
but ive already put in titan's blood for the shield, well before starting the run, so i dont think i can take it back out...
pallid drum
How do people feel about cursed slash? I always find a lot of success with it
opal lodge
cursed slash bad 
tender stirrup
felt for a while like it was kind of cool on Excalibur with all the bonus health but have come to believe it's not actually good
drifting vale
Cursed slash good but niche
pallid drum
For guan yu should i focus on spin build or try something else?
lone lava
@solid cairn Achilles is actually really fun right!
drifting vale
First off what level gy
lone lava
You clear rooms so fast without much effort with zeus cast
pallid drum
just low heat run since i got it not too long ago only 4 rn
lone lava
I personally much prefer the special build for GY
drifting vale
4 is good enough
Spin build or special
lone lava
And never run a spin build
pallid drum
whats usual in the special build?
lone lava
You just need artemis or aphrodite special
pallid drum
havent tried it before
pallid drum
My first boon is Aphrodite special lol
lone lava
I usually aim for aphro attack and artemis special for heart rend but aphro special works great too, you can maybe try and get divine dash next for safety
pallid drum
i usually try for divine dash most runs. I already got charged skewer so im set for a bit
wary jackal
huh so is this why my guan yu runs always suck. I've been focusing on attack
solid cairn
I mean the attack is getting buffed so
pallid drum
is the dash strike hits 3 times dadelus upgrade any good
proven osprey
For Guan Yu, I like Artemis special and Aphro attack
pallid drum
Yeah should've specified its GY
proven osprey
Charged skewer and serrated are excellent
Their duo is very good ofc
is the dash strike hits 3 times dadelus upgrade any good
@pallid drum yeah serrated point is excellent
Although a bit risky
opal lodge
what am i aiming for with passion flare beowulf other than passion flare and infernal soul
haughty robin
solid cairn
Snow burst @opal lodge
opal lodge
good call
unkempt pagoda
rush deliver takes a percent of all speed bonuses and adds that percent to your overall damage
unkempt pagoda
so if you have +20% move speed, and common rush delivery (50% of move speed bonus), you'd have a +10% global damage buff
opal lodge
hyper sprint + rush delivery gg
neon berry
im on my first run of hades and am having problems with well hades does anybody have a build that could help me with him
proven osprey
You can check the pinned message in #h1-for-new-players @neon berry
There is a quick guide for beginners, all weapons are covered
And if you're lost, go for Aphrodite
pallid drum
whats the consensus on zeus? I usually like seeing his boons. Not for a specific weapon but just in general
hearty elbow
He's not the best "general use" God, but he's insane in his own builds.
Mostly because the majority of his scaling comes from seeing a lot of Zeus
cunning urchin
He got one of the best Calls, though, and his Cast is pretty good.
Those are always worth picking up.
proven osprey
What is the worst call to you ?
cunning urchin
Demeter's Aid.
It just does no damage.
Greater Call does 600 damage.
Lesser Call does 200 damage lol.
I mean, it's good for Lernie because 600 is enough to break the armor of any head, and it's wide enough to hit all of them.
But that's like the only actual use for it lol.
cunning urchin
Ares' Aid is just a budget Poseidon's Aid or Athena's Aid.
Something inbetween.
But at least it's not Demeter's Aid.
proven osprey
But about Demeter
hearty elbow
I think it's a three way tie between Demeter, Ares and Artemis
proven osprey
It should be better with artic blast, various upgrades maybe ?
digital mountain
Ares is baller with his legendary though
proven osprey
I like Artemis 
digital mountain
same Artemis' call is not bad, helps kill armor so much faster
proven osprey
But it kinda feels like a weaker Aphro
hearty elbow
Artemis' Aid is just a way worse Dio's Aid, in basically every way.
proven osprey
And lesser Arte is... Hm ..
cloud jungle
Is it normal for Holy Excalibur to kill bosses in seconds?
cunning urchin
Artemis' Aid Greater Call can actually be decent on bosses if you can guarantee it backstabs.
digital mountain
crit backstab excalibur deletes anything
cunning urchin
Which you can guarantee in the right situations.
proven osprey
Yeah I've read that here
cloud jungle
I'm not even using crit
worldly trellis
Do Chaos boons count against Shackle? For instance, if I have a chaos boon that makes my attack stronger, does my attack lose the shackle bonus?
cloud jungle
and doing 2000 damage on the big hit 😄
cunning urchin
@worldly trellis no.
hearty elbow
Artemis' Aid Greater Call can actually be decent on bosses if you can guarantee it backstabs.
@cunning urchin Yes, the backstab thing upgraded it in my estimation from being very clearly the worst to tied for the worst with the other 2 bads
cunning urchin
Average damage at Lv.1 Common with backstabs is 2550.
Assuming no other backstab or crit modifiers.
3060 at Epic Lv.1
proven osprey
eh, not so bad
cunning urchin
The problem is that her Lesser Call is trash.
hearty elbow
Dio's Aid with no modifiers lvl 1 common over 4 calls is 2400 AoE damage.
proven osprey
Yeah
cunning urchin
Yeah, Dionysus' Aid is #1.
But she has burst damage. I've come to appreciate it a bit more lately.
proven osprey
Yeah but arrows are more spectacular
hearty elbow
Without a fast hitting weapon, Artemis' Aid is extremely close to unusable
cunning urchin
Especially if I have a crit build anyway.
Burst damage through EM4 phase 2 or 3 could be more useful than sustained damage.
true linden
Oh my god... this is the perfect run so farhttps://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/121207858166497280/770034643290292254/unknown.png
hearty elbow
We're kind of arguing in a circle though lol, we both like DIo's more, but yeah, I think I see the merit of Artemis' over Demeter's at least
Useful game actions with Demeter's Aid are... unlikely.
hearty elbow
Every time I accidentally hover over your avatar I get momentarily spooked from the motion.
cunning urchin
Demeter's Aid is your grandma telling you "you need to eat more."
Good intentions, but not really helping.
cunning urchin
@hearty elbow doesn't believe in the heart of the cards confirmed.
proven osprey
It's important
About ruthless reflex, does it work with a dash attack ?
I can imagine running that with Gilga if that was the case
proven osprey
Let me reword that
I wonder if a dash attack provides the buff as well as a classic dash
Since you have no i frame
hearty elbow
You just need to generate a "near miss"
Which can be done with a dash strike as well.
hearty elbow
I think all iframe dodges count as near misses, but it should (caveat, this is untested, I do not use Ruthless Reflexes, but from what I've seen from Lightning Reflexes), count for just dashing out of the range of an attack
cunning urchin
I'm very sure you can dash late, get "Dodge" to trigger, though, and it still counts as near miss lol.
So it just feeds on itself.
At least that's how it worked when I used it all the time back in Nighty Night.
proven osprey
You don't use it anymore ?
cunning urchin
I think I stopped using it at 32 or 41.
And then just never went back.
I did a few runs with it recently just to test some things, though.
hearty elbow
It's an extension of the hard fact that Greatest Reflexes is the best boon in the game. So why would you take anything but Greater Reflexes.
It says Greatest in the name!
cunning urchin
I think Ruthless can be a reasonable choice on Excalibur and Zag Aspect Malphon.
proven osprey
I'll try it 
cunning urchin
Because you get even more DR/Dodge.
But you're not taking it for the +50% damage.
The damage is not gonna help you clear faster over an extra dash.
proven osprey
The thing I don't like about greater reflex is that you can kinda spam it and not getting punished
hearty elbow
Pff says you
cunning urchin
I mean.
hearty elbow
I get punished all the time for dashing
cunning urchin
That's why I like it, no? Not getting hit is better than getting hit lol.
proven osprey
Good point 
hearty elbow
There are clean executions of double dashing, e.g. non-EM4 Dad, you can dash behind him to not have to iframe his spin, then dash toward him to DPS.
cunning urchin
And Asphodel with 1 dash takes forever just to traverse the map lol.
proven osprey
I see
Not for the damage then
But I can imagine it working well with Excalibur indeed
cunning urchin
Yeah, you can get silly eHP with it.
Just remember that HS urns will still do 150 damage if you step on one lol.
hearty elbow
With high enough Dodge, the variance can actually start working in your favor. It gets increasingly likely to get exceed the eHP projection
proven osprey
Yeah I won't forget that
cunning urchin
I would actually recommend you don't take HS with Excalibur.
hearty elbow
Lol, no one "likes" HS. It's that thing we put up with because it does nothing most of the time
proven osprey
But I'm not ready
cunning urchin
Rather, if you go for Ruthless Reflex on Excalibur, you shouldn't take HS.
Because you lose the mobility to effectively deal with the urns.
proven osprey
Yeah, I would be more likely to eat those spikes
cunning urchin
But you get crazy eHP for any enemy attacks.
surreal dune
Won my first run with Eris rail at heat4. Replacing common Demeter atk with rare Dio at the last possible moment saved the run.
cunning urchin
I would also recommend Abyssal Blood for that build.
surreal dune
Common Demeter atk was so low I was running out of time by act 3 bosses.
hearty elbow
Yeah I would imagine that would be an insane upgrade heh
Eris doesn't do well with %dmg attack boons
cunning urchin
That's like doubling or tripling your DPS lol.
surreal dune
Yeah I was fishing for it like crazy. I knew it's the best chance I had to finish the run.
Missed the atk replacement like 3 times.
🥳
hearty elbow
You were probably better off selling Demeter as early as you got it to find any of Zeus, Dio or Ares
cunning urchin
You're actually better off selling a bad Attack boon if you want to replace it.
Yeah lol.
proven osprey
Yep
cunning urchin
Yeah, very low chance.
surreal dune
proven osprey
That emote is scary
cunning urchin
Also, Attack, Special, Cast, and Dash are priority slots. If you have any of those slots open, you're guaranteed to be offered at least 1 for any of the open slots.
The other 2 options will be random.
So if you have Attack, Special, Cast, Dash, and you sell only your Attack, the boons after that will always offer an Attack until you take one.
proven osprey
How considerate of the gods
surreal dune
The gods are probably like, "what's this ghetto godling without a basic atk/special/dash/cast boon"
hearty elbow
Demeter is that semi-senile grandparent that keeps giving you weird knick knacks as gifts, but you have to smile and say "thanks for this Grandma, I'll treasure it always"
toss into Pool of Purging
cunning urchin
Lady Demeter be like "You should eat, little sprout. Have this Nourished Soul boon."
I'm not hungry, grandma.
@hearty elbow joke's on you, you can't sell her boons.
hearty elbow
Lol, that's because she'll ask about them later and you'd feel bad about lying to her
proven osprey
Poor grandma
hearty elbow
Her memory slips. Sometimes she gives you the same things multiple times.
trash fills with Crystal Beams
cunning urchin
Crystal Beam is good on Zag sword, though.
Makes you not have to use Zag sword.
That's really good.
cunning urchin
It's actually good if you can get more of those t2 boons for it and Crystal Clarity.
hearty elbow
Achilles with Crystal Clarity + Stygian Soul + Glacial Glare is my jam
Some of the most fun I've had in this game.
cunning urchin
I feel like @covert grove should make a Crystal Beam guide sometime. Literally every time I watch his stream, he ends up getting Crystal Beam lol.
proven osprey
I tried cold embrace, did not like it that much
hearty elbow
I suspect that there's a formula that converts gifted subs into Crystal Beam runs.
cunning urchin
He's def a Crystal Beam main at this point.
solid hazel
I did some math on whether Stygian or Infernal Soul is better on Crystal Beam...as I'm wont to do
the answer was it depends...
mostly on whether you get fully loaded or not
but Glacial Glare makes a bit of difference too
hearty elbow
Without Glacial Glare it's a tossup, but Glacial Glare + Poms with or without extra casts, Infernal definitely stops scaling
solid hazel
Beams last 5 seconds without Glacial glare
hearty elbow
There's also some opportunity cost for the time needed to get your casts back
solid hazel
with infernal that means you're doing ~3 casts/5 seconds so 0.6 casts a second
yeah a little bit
with Stygian at base its 1 cast/3 seconds so 0.33 casts a second
hearty elbow
People doing serious Crystal Beam optimization?
Somewhere, @covert grove quivers.
solid hazel
with fully loaded it goes to ~5/5 seconds 1 cast a second vs 3/3 seconds = 1 cast per second without needing pick ups
so it's the same there but without needing pick up it's definitely better
and Glacial glare changes things cuz now it's 7 seconds to pick up in infernal
hearty elbow
Fully loaded is obnoxious to get. It's more worthwhile to figure in the Hermes boon that shortens cooldown time and Chaos casts I think
solid hazel
yeah and I don' t think +1 from chaos is good enough to push it in favor of stygian by itself
maybe +1 chaos and glacial glare
it's proably close then
hearty elbow
Auto Reload. Lol, shows how many times I've taken that boon
proven osprey
I did not mean to cause all that I'm sorry
solid hazel
ehh I'd done the calculation almost 2 weeks ago sitting in my car haha
but yeah I was running STygian and one of my friends asked why not infernal
he hadn't done any math... haha
so I assumed I was right, but I wasn't necessarily
proven osprey
That's good to know
cunning urchin
Infernal wins because burst damage from more beams, anyway.
solid hazel
while @hearty elbow and @cunning urchin are here...I thought I'd mention that I think Dodge chance is additive from a run I had recently
I had a run that added up to 99.6% dodge additively or 68% multiplicatively
solid hazel
and I was standing pots and lasers and taking no damage from EM4 hades
so it seems super unlikely to me that it's multiplicative
surreal dune
I have been running Stygian Soul because I want to get Bad News.
solid hazel
I mean the lasers gotta be like ~15-20 hits by itself
surreal dune
But I never get it.
hearty elbow
I have been running Stygian Soul because I want to get Bad News.
@surreal dune Just run lambent plume
solid hazel
no way you're seeing 0 hits out of 15-20 on multiple independent trials
hearty elbow
Yeah, that's interesting. I wonder why from a design standpoint they'd address hitting Damage Reduction cap but not Dodge.
proven osprey
Luckiest boi alive
solid hazel
well this test came about because some guy said he looked at .lua files and dodge was in fact additive
of course I didn't believe him either until I tried it
proven osprey
Extreme dodge technique
solid hazel
I was wondering how easy it is to proc lambent plume at high heat
cunning urchin
Just gotta not time out with Malphon.
proven osprey
It's not like you get hit in your runs anyway
cunning urchin
Lambent Plume procs are easy.
hearty elbow
Lol, speak for yourself. I'm extremely good at getting hit.
cunning urchin
Well.
surreal dune
during a Hades fight I once saw three consecutive "dodged" text floating by.
solid hazel
well I was missing them at my kinda low heat run haha
surreal dune
I didn't need it that run tho.
solid hazel
I think I missed 3 or 4 total...
cunning urchin
They're either easy or you die to TD3 anyway lol.
solid hazel
I was really pissed cuz Theseus got stuck in a wall making me miss one
after his chariot exploded he decided to clip into a wall out of reach of my fists
would have had 100% otherwise...:(
proven osprey
Lol, speak for yourself. I'm extremely good at getting hit.
@hearty elbow Not for myself haha
surreal dune
Plume's actual benefit is that it teaches you to pay attention to dodge damage.
Even after you don't use it later.
cunning urchin
So just get Second Wind + Smoldering Air + Proud Bearing for full-time Second Wind.
With AP2 at 64. Got it.
surreal dune
And you'll realize it's easier than you think.
But depending on your build it's a hassle to do it with time limit, which usually is a free heat.
solid hazel
yeah you pretty much need smoldering air + second wind to get anywhere close to 100% dodge
hearty elbow
Nah, Ruthless Reflexes is the easiest way to get there for sure
solid hazel
well you need almost everything...Zag fist, a good lambent plume run, smoldering air + second wind, and greater evasion
err,...but you still have to dash for ruthless reflex to work
cunning urchin
Yeah, I know the values. Just never knew if it was additive or not.
proven osprey
Just go for ruthless and you're at 100 right
solid hazel
the point of dodge is so I never have to dash for the purpose of evasion
hearty elbow
Zag Fist + Ruthless + common Evasion is already 75
cunning urchin
Yeah, keeping up Ruthless can be difficult, actually.
solid hazel
its like only 2 seconds I think
hearty elbow
Lol, I'm not calling it good, I'm saying it's probably the easiest way to get to dodge cap
solid hazel
k fair enough
I dunno if other people purposely try to do near misses either, but I don't really try to
cunning urchin
I guess infinite eHP is the new tank build meta.
hearty elbow
Depends on the encounter. iframing should always count so that should happen fairly regularly.
solid hazel
so like I usually don't rank things with near misses very highly...mostly cuz I have no idea how often they proc
and of course uncertainty automatically means its bad /s
proven osprey
How does Zag dodge tho ?
proven osprey
Suddenly remember he can duck ?
shadow ridge
So I've noticed that Thanatos' butterfly doesn't increment at all for me in the satyr tunnels, in spite of taking no damage
solid hazel
oh thats what you mean
shadow ridge
Could it be because I have the zeus/ares duo boon that riggers revenge effects?
solid hazel
they parry things maybe?
proven osprey
Yeah in a more practical way
solid hazel
lol he can't dodge with those other big ass weapons
@shadow ridge lambent plume and pierced butterfly don't count the little rooms in Styx
just the big one with a reward at the end
proven osprey
@shadow ridge nope, you just get Than bonus at the big rooms
shadow ridge
I see. That seems strange to me as Demeter's boon that increases rarity seems to tick in the small rooms, lest I'm mistaken
proven osprey
Yeah, they count as encounters but not for the keepsakes
solid hazel
everything else like charon wells, chaos penalties, pom blossom do count the little rooms
proven osprey
Balance indeed but it is unclear
solid hazel
well it's not the only thing that's unclear from the description lol
shadow ridge
Then I won't make the mistake of taking these keepsakes with me. I was under the impression that you needed them in your inventory to keep the effect, but you can't swap to another keepsake and back
solid hazel
that impression is correct
shadow ridge
So you take the butterfly/plume on one stage and then you're stuck with it for the rest of the run
solid hazel
if you swap it you will lose the bonus
well as discussed a few messages back, lambent plume is a pre-req for Hermes legendaries
so you can get a Hermes legendary off the first boon you take from him if you have lambent plume equipped
surreal dune
Plume is an either/or with Stygian Soul
solid hazel
but yeah other than that it's usually something you keep the whole run
surreal dune
for Hermes legendary
solid hazel
or if you're bad like me, you put pierced butterfly on for tarturus, realize you suck with it and take it off after that
twin kite
Hey guys what i have to do, to unlock exagryph secret aspect?
solid hazel
I always forget...I think it's under a pinned message on this channel or story-and-spoilers
proven osprey
Take Than, get bonus from tartarus
Not getting anything from Asphodel
Keeping it "it will get better"
Does not get better, enjoy that 10%
solid hazel
lol that feeling when you have 6% after tarturus....am I really gonna do better in these harder biomes?
uninstall game
proven osprey
It won't but you lie to yourself
solid hazel
hah ain't the truth
odd jacinth
Eh, I don't think a 10% damage boost is a bad thing
Provided you have a safe build, you could probably get it higher in Asphodel
proven osprey
Yeah
solid hazel
well I would have to fix the fundamental problem of me playing like an idiot too
proven osprey
But things like Acorn are more relevant if you're stuck to 10%
That's a good way to improve I guess
solid hazel
yeah honestly...I feel like pierced butterfly is underwhelming even if you're good at it
proven osprey
Stop being a greedy idiot
solid hazel
like +40% global additive is just not all that impressive
for not being able to use any keepsake the whole run
if it was multiplicative...yeah now we're talking
proven osprey
Yeah the additive thing ruins my pleasure
solid hazel
- it has the hidden penalty of stressing you out the whole run haha
solid hazel
yup haha
dry ember
hard choice
my mind telling me jolted is better
my heart telling me storm lightning for legendary
i would go jolted. you are in elysium, chance to get legendary is smaller
covert grove
@hearty elbow Beams are a privilege.
willow fossil
Can never go wrong with jolted
tawdry sleet
Is Heavy Knuckle a good hammer upgrade on fists?
fossil compass
Can I ask something quite technical about run seeding? I thought they are fixed, right
Something weird happened. I gave up on a run early on after I know I'm gonna get a good hammer upgrade, change my mirror upgrade, came back, and the first boon, which is a hammer, have different choices?
But changing the mirror perk doesn't reset it back?
So.... Is the seed really fixed? In that case why does my hammer boon change?
I can't change it back anymore now
unkempt pagoda
Is Heavy Knuckle a good hammer upgrade on fists?
it can be, allows you to run different gods on attack than one might normally run
surreal dune
WHY DO I ALWAYS GET GREATER RECALL
NOT BAD NEWS
Ok. I thought plume is enough to get bad news. Looks like Stygian Soul is necessary.
still vigil
@hearty elbow so what can repulse shot be paired with to make the best use of it?
willow steppe
Hello there, I have an important question. If I have Adamant, aspect of ||Lucifer||, and I get a chaos boon which inflicts 4 damages when I attack, does that trigger at each tic or just at the start of shooting ?
sweet blade
Does the broken spearpoint work against poison damage over time?
mellow drift
yes it does
willow steppe
Hello there, I have an important question. If I have Adamant, aspect of ||Lucifer||, and I get a chaos boon which inflicts 4 damages when I attack, does that trigger at each tic or just at the start of shooting ?
Guess what, it -4 at each tic, rip run x)
full nova
can anyone give me a zag fists rcommendation?
still wraith
I honestly kind of like the athena attack on them but I can see why some would argue that there's better options
unkempt pagoda
i heard lambent plume is fun on it
full nova
ya i'm doing lambent plume in the run i'm in right now
but I can't get boons for crap this run, I've only hit 2 boons 😐
awful seed whatever it is
still wraith
Tbh I never use the special on fists unless I'm using a different aspect or if I get a hammer that focuses on special
Think what I did last time I used zag fists was athena attack and artemis dash with aphrodite special even though I never used that
unkempt pagoda
zeus strike will probably be best
still wraith
I just use athena attack cause fists attack with so little gaps in between attacks that even if I get hit it'll most likely be deflected