Conch, treasure or catch, any 2 of the 3
#h1-builds-and-combat
granite goblet
once you have a certain contractor upgrade, keys are extremely nice
spare scaffold
I maxed my work orders (for now) so ye I know what you guys are referring to
willow fossil
Nectar for pom, key for reroll
granite goblet
hoping to 100% someday
not looking forward to getting every single song
500 gemstones to a diamond is such a painful rate
hearty elbow
More power to you. I'm 500+ hours in and I still haven't come close to getting everything. To be fair 0% of that time was farming
DIamonds are the easiest to get through Broker special deals
granite goblet
yeah, but cheesing broker by dying at start is silly
hearty elbow
This comes with an assumption that you don't want TItan Blood anymore, which is probably untrue for most, but you can subvert that by picking up 10 Nectar -> 1 Ambrosia deals, which will convert 1:1 with Blood
I earn my deaths to talk to the broker tyvm
granite goblet
runs take so long for me now though
hearty elbow
Lol, practicing with TD3 makes failed runs a lot shorter in practice for me haha. Tartarus has a very high fail rate at high heat.
granite goblet
tbh i should just start taking the heat thing that makes you have to go fast so I can actually die quickly
also yeah, tartarus is proving grounds at high heat
once you're past that, you're fine until elysium
god elysium is such a spike
hearty elbow
It's soooo much better than Elysium being the bottleneck pre-1.0
So obnoxious to have to work your way up to Elysium only to fail to timer
granite goblet
someday I'm gonna get dio/posi duo boon in the first 5 or so chambers and then it's gonna be smooth sailing (heh) for that run
spare scaffold
Do you guys skip troves with TD on
granite goblet
depends on the level
hearty elbow
I skip everything with TD3 on
spare scaffold
I've been timing my runs in preparation for it, sort of
prisma raven
i skip TD
spare scaffold
oh god TD3 is 5 mins per region innit
hearty elbow
Troves, any room that is offered next to a free room, I take every Chaos, buy every Light of Ixion
granite goblet
also on the offer, if im low at health i'll sometimes go for one if its giving darkness or health
hearty elbow
And pray to the pagan Styx gods for an early harvest
half crater
i skip TD
it me
prisma raven
can someone explain why aspect of chaos is the meta's favorite shield
half crater
it isn’t lol
hearty elbow
The meta doesn't have a favorite shield atm
half crater
that was pre 1.0
fierce thicket
TD2 is easily doable most of the time, TD1 is just free heat
granite goblet
it was pre 1.0 yeah
prisma raven
oh
granite goblet
pre 1.0 it was a full 360 degree burst
hearty elbow
- ricochet
granite goblet
now it's more of a shotgun
spare scaffold
yeah now it's just a shotgun, it's not bad but I'm probably going to take Beowulf over Chaos soon
half crater
if the meta has a favourite shield rn, it’s beowulf
prisma raven
interesting
untold iris
what happens when you run out of time? do you just die instantly?
granite goblet
yeah, end of run
hearty elbow
- the ricochets would staggers the return timings of the shield so you would get way more Thunder Flourish procs than you normally would
prisma raven
you lose health constantly
granite goblet
oh wait really?
prisma raven
not instant death but quick enough
spare scaffold
Super powerful, take 10% more damage is hardly a nerf when you are using a shield
untold iris
I've only ever tried 7 min timer and I havent run out of time yet
hearty elbow
-5/sec DoT
granite goblet
I guess I was already at low health whenever I ran out of time
untold iris
i dont think im good enough to play with 5 min timer, since getting runs consistently under that time limit seems super unreliable
hearty elbow
It's a pretty common strat to aim for a high life total to gain seconds during bosses. I've gained almost a minute before with Patroclus + SD lol
fierce thicket
TD2 is only a threat on tartarus with a slow build, after that you are fine
granite goblet
the fact that you get bleedover time helps a lot
prisma raven
oh nice
granite goblet
being able to bank time from a fast asphodel run is very nice
lunar stump
any tip for 32 heat runs?
untold iris
i feel like I waste so much time on asphodel tbh
spare scaffold
wait hang on you can keep the extra time if you clear a region faster than the max alloted?
lunar stump
i tried a cople of times and i always die in elysium
untold iris
that place has unusually huge rooms and a lot of enemy types just sort of chill out
prisma raven
yep
spare scaffold
nicee
hearty elbow
Find a weapon you really like. Find a build you really like to build on it that's effective and consistent. And keep iterating on it @lunar stump
half crater
yeah the bleedover took TD from a hard pass for me to something that i actually kinda enjoy these days
only TD1-2 tho
untold iris
so I'm constantly dashing like a madman around asphodel trying to find the next enemy
half crater
TD3 is scary business
hearty elbow
There isn't a magic button for 32 (anymore, since Chaos was nerfed lol)
untold iris
i like chiron
lunar stump
i suppose that's how its meant to be heh, i'll keep trying
hearty elbow
Chaos is still fun, but it definitely feels like you're playing Hades instead of Pachinko
lunar stump
so far chaos shield with dio special might be my fav, also chiron with dios special too
hearty elbow
I have been getting extremely good results with Chiron + Drunken Flourish, way better than I expected, so you can definitely go far with that.
I would probably still prefer Deadly Flourish + Heart Rend at 32 to instagib bosses though
lunar stump
it has absurd damage xD
untold iris
yeah I think if you can get it, the best setup is probably artemis special, aphrodite attack, athena dash
hearty elbow
Drunken Flourish for me has been mostly a utility to compensate for JS3
untold iris
and look for heart rend, artemis things that boost crit, and aphro things that make weak better
hearty elbow
At very very high heat
half crater
JS is always a struggle on bows for me
hearty elbow
It's free on Rama, but it's quite hard for the other bows, yes
half crater
rama is another story ofc yeah
lunar stump
JS3 is Jury Summons i suppose?
half crater
ye
untold iris
whats the typical build for fists for high heat? I'm going to try 32 fists in the near future and was wondering what I should be aiming for
half crater
merciful end
untold iris
I tried ME a bunch of fists but for some reason its really hard for me to get
and ares attack without ME feels bad imo
hearty elbow
It is really hard to get now, but Curse of Agony is already very good on fists
hearty elbow
It's the best single target damage boon for fists
granite goblet
sdgkjhdskjlgh I misunderstood that response
fierce thicket
It no longer appears with divine dash btw
untold iris
wait dont I waste so much doom damage
hearty elbow
Which is not intuitive, but it's true.
untold iris
given how fast fists attack
granite goblet
what should I try for 32 heat fists
a merciful end
untold iris
the only issue I have with ME is that the build needs one specific ares boon, two specific athena boons, and then another boon from ares/athena
half crater
yeah you attack fast, but the issue is each hit has a very low base damage
untold iris
so a fair number of runs I come across dont get there
gleaming current
If you really don't like ME, i guess you could try lightning strike
untold iris
and missing any piece of it feels bad
untold iris
maybe im just hating too much on curse of agony
half crater
yeah lightning strike is the other route
hearty elbow
Yeah it's easy to, it's not the most flexible boon in the world on most weapons lol
Divine Strike is the safety build
half crater
or you could do what i did; talos, full wine
32 heat ezpz
well, actually i barely won
but it still worked
untold iris
which fist is generally considered best? I sort of just play the same with all three regular aspects
and have basically never used gilgamesh
hearty elbow
Demeter by a lot
untold iris
either way i just spam dash attack a lot with the occasional special thrown in when I feel like it
granite goblet
talos certainly makes chasing enemies down easier, I like it more that demeter
demeter's probably objectively better though
half crater
demeter is better for sure
hearty elbow
Yeah, unfortunately, pulling an enemy is a lot less attractive than instantly deleting it in most situations
Talos is very fun though
untold iris
does demeter work with charged special? I had a run where I was trying it out but it didnt feel like it was working properly
half crater
talos is better at letting me actually do a cast build, which requires less ability to micro
hearty elbow
It works with all of the special hammers pretty sure
lunar stump
also, do you activate EM4 on 32 heat?
untold iris
i think im going to have to crutch on a cast build to do 32 sword, since im awful at sword
half crater
no
gleaming current
It does work with charged special
hearty elbow
Though be carefuly with some, like Flying Kick, if you try to dash-upper with charge you will insta-release your Demeter buff
prisma raven
i just realized my favorite aspect for every weapon is the olympian aspect
half crater
there’s no reason to do EM4 at 32
prisma raven
except for arguably the aspect of hades
half crater
unless you want to
untold iris
Though be carefuly with some, like Flying Kick, if you try to dash-upper with charge you will insta-release your Demeter buff
gleaming current
However if you dash-upper you lose your charge into bonus dash-uppers rather than charged special
untold iris
I think that was what was happening
gleaming current
Yeah
untold iris
every time I try to hold special it fires off the demeter buff instantly and then I charge afterwards
lunar stump
i supposed it wasn't, since it makes it so difficult
hearty elbow
It confused me until I asked here too
half crater
i think im going to have to crutch on a cast build to do 32 sword, since im awful at sword
@untold iris can recommend
lunar stump
thanks :D
untold iris
and then only hit with one charged attack
granite goblet
my favorite aspects are basically universally the hidden aspect except for aspect of chiron being objectively the best coronacht aspect
half crater
it works lol
hearty elbow
It feels a lot like a bug but it kind of makes sense mechanically
half crater
poseidon; aspect of cast crutching sword
granite goblet
poseidon is powerful but chrissake the damage output on excalibur
prisma raven
chiron sounds good at max level but i don't have the blood
hearty elbow
Don't bother until you do honestly. It's pretty important to have it at max
granite goblet
yeah that's the only issue with chiron
untold iris
going from rank 1 to rank 5 chiron literally doubles your damage
granite goblet
that and the fact that it's practically guaranteed to be nerfed at some point
untold iris
it was already nerfed
untold iris
I think the devs probably feel like its fine now
granite goblet
they buffed the quantity on chiron to counterbalance i thought
untold iris
since hammer upgrades are a bit better than they used to be on chiron, which helps make up some of the -25% damage
half crater
yeah; it still worked out as a nerf iirc
untold iris
all other bows lost 33% special damage
granite goblet
oh, alright
untold iris
chiron got a compensation buff, so it works out to it losing 25% base damage
granite goblet
also getting increased volley and the, uh, consecutive shots increase damage on volley thing as hammer buffs is just
chefs kiss
hearty elbow
minor plus side, Concentrated Volley is much better on it now, and Low Tolerance is excellent
untold iris
from what I understand though, it's still perfectly fine as a weapon and definitely viable even after the nerf
half crater
makes the dio thing better now as well
untold iris
i play on switch though so I still have unnerfed chiron :^)
hearty elbow
Oh for sure, I'm still very comfortable 45+ with Chiron post nerf, it's definitely not bad.
granite goblet
it's absolutely still viable, coronacht is still my highest clear rate
untold iris
I did heat 1-20 + heat 32 with bow, so now I'm off that weapon until I learn all the rest of them
half crater
i did 32 heat with (post nerf) chiron bow, and still feel like i have no idea how to play bows
so yeah it’s still good lol
fierce thicket
True shot is pretty meh as far as casts go
neat hound
half crater
it’s not as flashy as the other casts, but it’s tough to miss with it and it does a lot of damage, stacked right
wicked horizon
i just wish it had a better crit chance. Like, it's the only cast boon that's solely single target, and it has the lowest base damage, and despite that it only gets a 10% crit chance? i'd rather grab aphro, athena, zeus, or poseidon and get my crit chance from pressure points
(especially as PP is a prerequisite for fully loaded and true shot isn't)
it was a better choice in early access where the cast boons were more tiered on athena and you needed it or like one other possible boon to get access to some tier 2 cast boons like the original miracle shot, which was then needed for fully loaded (at +3 stones)
also i'd say hidden aspects are largely my least favorite except shield
Sword: Poseidon then Nemesis
Spear: Achilles then Zagreus
Shield: Hidden then Zeus
Bow: Hera then Chiron
Fists: Demeter then Talos
Gun: Eris then Hestia
near zealot
No love for gun hidden?
gleaming current
Lucy is a lonely weapon, indeed
sweet blade
Do you lose the bonuses from Thanatos'/Hermes' Keepsake if you switch away from it, or only the ability to stack the effect further?
errant narwhal
you lose the bonus
pulsar quest
Is aphrodite better for raw dmg than artemis?
proven osprey
more consistent and scales better
pulsar quest
unless im super off with my guess, doesn't the raw increase from aphrodite beat out artemis regardless?
gleaming current
Mmm, it's worth noting that if you get a lot of other sources of damage, artemis will beat aphro
proven osprey
yeah but you need some t2 boons right
gleaming current
Stuff like Boiling Blood, Family Favorite/Privileged Status, Chaos boons
weapon effects
gleaming current
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1c0C5S__GYUO8Cz2ibKhOUu7okqDTqhGRuCzwRlz6X1U/edit?usp=sharing this document helps for more precise dps comparison
pulsar quest
sweet, ty ❤️
untold iris
is rolling knuckle or breaching cross better for fists?
its hard to tell the impact of some hammer upgrades tbh
gleaming current
Well, they have a different utility. Breaching cross is focused on demolishing armored foes
If you don't really get concerned about them, rolling would be more universal pick
gleaming current
I'd probably pick rolling as well, since it's everlasting cycle of two dash strikes, around 3 punches, and all over again
hearty elbow
It's pretty important to be able to stunlock enemies with Fists, and Breaching Cross next to guarantees you'll be able to do that. It's also a godsend against Dad summons
untold iris
i took rolling knuckled but i really wasnt sure about that choice
whole axle
What are those little cut-scenes of Hades that occasionally happen before you start a run? For example this one was "Gemstones"
untold iris
you'll be happy to hear that my elysium hammer was breaching cross
so we fixed the problem
hearty elbow
What are those little cut-scenes of Hades that occasionally happen before you start a run? For example this one was "Gemstones"
@whole axle They're there to test your sanity after you've heard them 20 times.
calm saddle
^^^
whole axle
oo, thought they might boost rewards or something 😄
cunning urchin
I don't get Gilgamesh. DPS is so bad until I get Merciful End, which can often take until Elysium now. Although, Maim is pretty good on bosses. Gives your summons extra damage, too, since it's a debuff.
I guess let's try Deadly Strike.
cunning urchin
Gonna try Ruthless Reflex, too.
thorny dirge
has anyone experimented with the usual aphro attack for gilga? given the higher base damage
cunning urchin
Would be nice if something attacked for Ruthless to actually ever trigger. 
Deadly Strike should end up getting higher damage than Heartbreak Strike.
thorny dirge
yeah aphro/arty, i mean the build moreso than the specific boons
cunning urchin
You mean Heart Rend?
thorny dirge
yup
cunning urchin
There's no inherent crit chance, and you're not applying Maim enough for Heart Rend to matter for anything but bosses.
I guess with Passion Dash maybe. Not sure that's worth it.
thorny dirge
got it, i've tried ME as well but i generally felt like i should be playing demeter instead
aspect of demeter*
cunning urchin
Deadly Reversal makes more sense, I would think.
gilded nymph
is there a threshold to obtain a duo besides having 2 boons from 2 different gods?
untold iris
you can look up prerequisites in the codex
you need to buy the codex upgrade though I think
untold iris
so after doing a ME run I've now come to the conclusion that ME is really busted when everything comes together
but I didn't get all the boons necessary until like halfway through elysium
and before then my damage was kind of mediocre
thorny dirge
ares attack isn't bad tbh
calm saddle
^
worn crypt
What weapon?
thorny dirge
meme beam has sort of the same payoff but has considerably weaker early game
calm saddle
esepcially if u get dire misfortune
untold iris
ive been running with fists
currently on 16 heat, going to go up to 20 and then do 32
cunning ibex
is there anyway to preserve high damage per hit builds like spin builds or spear's hidden aspect when using the heart shield pact?
I play with double shield and I notice that stuff like powerful single hit casts and spins are only really useful after you break the shield
untold iris
isnt guan yu's spin multi hit?
untold iris
oh, non-guan yu spins are single hit
but you mentioned hidden aspect specificly
and that one is multi hit
but anyways if you play with slow weapons its probably best to just turn off the shield
cunning ibex
I said or.
untold iris
and add heat somewhere else
cunning ibex
Gaun yu's main attack are slow but heavy
untold iris
I'm pretty sure guan yu's main attack is just bad
most people do either spin builds or special builds with that weapon
cunning ibex
and add heat somewhere else
that kinda defeats the point of the question
untold iris
I mean there's no real way to cheese shields if you play something like arthur
you just have to play well and resign yourself to the fact that its going to take longer to kill enemies
would probably need to increase the timer as a result
use whatever your fastest option is for clearing shields
but some weapons dont really have that good of a way to do so
cunning ibex
so your answer is that there is no way to preserve slow high damage build when playing with heart shields without resorting to having a method to clear them away first?
untold iris
I think EM4 isn't that bad without other things that buff hades
cunning urchin
I mean. That's kind of self-explanatory? How are you gonna do high damage without clearing the shields first?
gilded nymph
asterius has gold armor wtf
cunning urchin
I don't really understand what kind of method you're looking for.
worn crypt
I think by "slow high damage" they're talking about heavy weapons like Arthur
cunning urchin
You could maybe put Drunken Flourish or Thunder Flourish on Excalibur to clear two shields with one Special.
Stuff like that.
untold iris
I tried EM4 recently and that fight wasnt that bad
but I could see it getting really out of hand with other buffs, like FO or HL
cunning urchin
Yeah, high damage in a single hit and a pact that makes enemies invincible for 2 hits is a bad combo.
thorny dirge
with spear specifically doesnt dash-striking twice into spin kinda solve the problem
that's the combo you're gonna be doing anyway
cunning urchin
Meta spear for what?
untold iris
for high heat
cunning urchin
Tailesque is the only one using Hades Aspect at high heat, I'm pretty much the only one playing Guan Yu and I haven't done 40+ with it.
So err . . . yeah, I guess Hades Aspect is meta.
thorny dirge
on that note, @cunning ibex probably worth finding one of Tailesque's Hades spear videos since i'm fairly certain they've got DC2 on for high heat
cunning urchin
Speedrun meta is Achilles.
gilded nymph
I have 2 questions, 1 is pretty simple, the other is kinda detailed
mind answering nyaanyaa?
cunning urchin
I don't even know your questions lol.
gilded nymph
uh
untold iris
the answers are yes and yes :^)
gilded nymph
you know splitting headache
dio aphro duo
i mean artemis dio
if I have aphro attack, will it allow aphro attack to crit if enemy has hangover?
cunning urchin
Yes.
floral matrix
how do I not get murdered by elite exalted archers without athena dash?
probably the hardest attack in the game for me to time the evade for
untold iris
dash behind terrain
cunning urchin
Errr . . . murder them first.
floral matrix
there seems to be some "low cover" they can shoot over tho
untold iris
you can tell when they're about to fire because the cursor changes color
floral matrix
ooooooooooooh
gilded nymph
and the second one, so when you start a run, it randomly picks 4 gods that you will encounter right?
untold iris
so make sure to get behind some terrain before that happens
gilded nymph
how do god keepsakes affect that
untold iris
btw the same thing applies to theseus
when he's about to throw his spear the cursor on you changes color
untold iris
so its a good indicator of when to dodge behind terrain
floral matrix
honestly Elysium just feels harder than Styx to me
gonna try a run without athena dash now and see how hard I fail, cheers for the advice
cunning urchin
Well, Deadly Strike Gilgamesh was faster than trying to build for ME, at least.
and the second one, so when you start a run, it randomly picks 4 gods that you will encounter right?
No.
thorny dirge
did you manage deadly reversal?
feel like it's the same buildup as ME with less payoff
so idk
floral matrix
ME?
cunning urchin
It just picks random gods for you, if you pick up one, it's "locked in" and the other remaining 3 slots will remain random.
thorny dirge
merciful end
gilded nymph
HOLY MOLY HADES IS HARD
cunning urchin
If you got ME early it would probably pull ahead, but this is much easier to build and more consistent. Deadly Reversal isn't a requirement.
cunning urchin
There's a Gilgamesh meta?
cunning urchin
Still took me 13:57.92.
Boss fights are really fast with it.
Those mini dashes suck for room clearing, though.
Just traversing the terrain to fight enemies takes forever.
Ruthless Reflex didn't matter much for most encounters, I don't think.
hearty elbow
They also get consumed so quickly that paradoxically I always find myself out of dashes to iframe things, even with Greatest Reflexes
Or maybe I'm in self-imposed hitstun from the awkward animations, it's hard to tell
granite goblet
hmm
has anyone ever done a no-boon run with authority
might be interesting with the shackle
granite goblet
True
mossy light
just purge everything and say it was a no boon
granite goblet
I usually manage to though which bothers me a lot actually because I don't have ||malphon's hidden aspect|| yet
mossy light
unless it happens in the styx, in which case youre hosed
gleaming current
Of course. Of course
I suppose taking t1 boon and then not using the ability until the boon is purged is also fair
granite goblet
that'd probably be the way I'd do it
prisma raven
why was that put in spoilers
granite goblet
gleaming current
a bait
granite goblet
but yeah, worst case scenario if you're forced to take one, put it on cast and dont use it
or just seeded run until you figure out the perfect pathing to avoid all boons :^)
cunning ibex
well it wasn't my intention
cunning urchin
Or maybe I'm in self-imposed hitstun from the awkward animations, it's hard to tell
@hearty elbow mashing RB after clearing a chamber and Zag is still stuck in animation for a minute . . . ugh.
That only happens on Gilgamesh.
cunning ibex
but this run i've ended up having massive blade rifts that appear when i dash and cast that pull people in
near zealot
I've got a quick question. I'm relatively new to the community, but noticed a lot of emphasis on 32-heat runs in this discord and elsewhere. Why? Is that the last || Skelly trial || or something else story related, or has it just been coincidence so far?
untold iris
the last reward you get is at 32 heat
its the skelly statue you're thinking of
you can do more heat but you don't get anything, so most players just do 32 and stop
mossy light
the trick is to ramp up to it instead of going from 5 to 16 to 32
near zealot
👍 thanks. I'm only at ~7 heat myself, my curiosity was piquing
mossy light
really. thats impressive
worn crypt
-7 heat sounds pretty easy. Take less damage, heal more, enemies are slower.
near zealot
Hahaha, sorry, shorthand for "around 7"
mossy light
im on hell mode with forced overtime, so thats 8 heat
mossy light
zagbow? 
robust anchor
pretty good weapon
cunning urchin
Yeah, it's pretty good.
mossy light
it competes with the other 3 bows
cunning urchin
I get better times more reliably with Zag bow than with Chiron.
mossy light
just attack spam?
cunning urchin
Dash-Strike Power Shots, yes.
mossy light
how does that work?
cunning urchin
Unless you have Explosive Shot.
How does what work? You dash, then hold Attack and let go for the Power Shot.
mossy light
huhhm
thorny dirge
aphro attack/flurry shot/heart rend too
it's the one time i'll seed a hammer to relive the dream
cunning urchin
Not a fan of Flurry Shot, it's awkward on pad with auto-aim.
robust anchor
flurry shot is awkward with art dash for me :(
cunning urchin
It's not a bad hammer per se, I just end up missing too many shots that it's costing me DPS.
untold iris
i like flurry shot with chiron if you have nothing better to take
since it lets me shoot a fully range attack with no charge
but if your attack is your primary dps then losing charge shots might be bad
robust anchor
yes it’s pretty good
no it does always pwoer shot
for flurry
but you just dont gotta charge it
cunning urchin
It does not.
robust anchor
it does same damage
cunning urchin
No, it doesn't. You don't get the full Power Shot damage with Flurry Shot.
thorny dirge
it makes your base 60 vs 20*
so you pretty much just sit there shooting at everything, dashing once in a while to reposition
cunning urchin
Power Shots are 70 for regular attacks and 50 for Dash-Strikes. Flurry Shot does 60 for regular Attacks and 40 for Dash-STrikes.
It's good for DPS, but not if you miss a lot of shots.
mossy light
so try dash charge fullshot with the bow. ill remember that. i think
i dont use charge attacks often enough
weak garnet
Hey can I have some quick advice?
I got an early hammer on hidden bow aspect. Twin shot vs repulse shot vs point blank shot? all I have sofar is epic artemis attack boon
untold iris
i think twin shot is best on rama
or at least thats what people who are a lot better than me like
mossy light
yeah, i guess? i suck with rama short of special spam
mossy light
woo
jagged roost
any good eris builds?
lethal chasm
jagged roost
zeus attack and aphro special?
with some ares to get their duos?
I feel like ares special is really good tho
robust anchor
eris special does a lot of damage so aph is good
jagged roost
what about hammers which should I be looking for
if i had to choose from flurry shot and ricochet rounds which is better?
mossy light
flurry
i tend to prefer builds that focus on single target damage, if only to make bosses easier
fiery ginkgo
if you switch off of the hermes keepsake between biomes, do you lose the speed and dodge boost?
or does it stick around?
untold iris
tfw you're about to fight EM4 Hades with a merciful end build, except the game never offered you merciful end
nova rivet
sounds optimal tbh
rugged wave
sounds about right
untold iris
i died on phase 3 😦
rugged wave
lmao finally got hermes to give me an epic attack speed buff on arthur
robust anchor
atk
turbid needle
no
robust anchor
yes
junior harbor
Are SG aware that the requirements for Hunting Blades (ares/artemis) are incorrect? it says you can get it with Slicing Flare, but I've never gotten it with beowulf, and everyone else says you can't get it with beowulf.
sweet blade
How does the aspect of hestia interact with the shotgun hammer upgrade, since they both modify base damage?
hearty elbow
They don't interact at all
limber flax
is rush kick good with demeter
sick trellis
Would someone mind helping me understand how to unlock the 4th weapon aspects? I've found a few explanations on Reddit but I guess I'm misunderstanding. For instance, I have I've done Heat 4 with fists, aspect of demeter lvl 4 -- and Heat 8 with shield, aspect of chaos lvl 4. But neither have 4th unlocked
After every game I make the rounds talking to NPCs as well
hearty elbow
Kinetic Launcher
sick trellis
for the prophecy fulfilment, duh
hearty elbow
It's very good on Demeter. Not everyone's preference, but since you do not have a damage based attack, Concentrated Knuckle doesn't do much to help.
Remember to go for the power shot on Kinetic Launcher, it goes very far
Otherwise it goes basically nowhere
hearty elbow
You basically use it like a bow
hearty elbow
@sick trellis There's a sticky in #h1-story-discussion for that.
sweet blade
man, I have some severe issues with unlocking the first hidden aspect since achilles always has a more important topic
hearty elbow
Yeah it took me over 40 runs on my Switch save to get him to talk about it because I don't think the game expects you to win your first run, and his dialogue order got all screwy
It was gg once I gifted Patroclus lmao
sweet blade
My problem is that I'm on a 3 run win streak so he keeps talking about the surface
mossy light
blasted brilliant riposte never appears
limber flax
how good is impending doom?
mossy light
good. get it
unkempt pagoda
it's the better out of the two doom buffing boons
unkempt pagoda
3, probably
hearty elbow
Battle Rage is giant poopoo on Fists
sweet blade
1 doesnt really do much for bosses
unkempt pagoda
it's hard to get a damage modifier on something like doom
hearty elbow
Even with the Demeter proc, good luck actually getting the last hit on an enemy with your attack to then use the empowered special with battle rage lol
hearty elbow
(it does actually buff the entire empowered special though)
sweet blade
unless you get it before meg and proc if off the adds
hearty elbow
On fist it's not good in any situation
I'm just saying though, it's not because it doesn't work on the empowered special
It's because you will never actually be able to set up that situation
hearty elbow
Yeah, it's not necessarily the best, that's probably Exploding Upper, but it's definitely the most fun imo
I'd probably say it's the second best special modifier
turbid needle
Kaaa meee haaa meee...
hearty elbow
basically lmao
mossy light
uggh, this arthur FO1 is gonna die before hades
hearty elbow
@limber flax You should aim to try it with a damage based special boon, Artemis or Aphro preferably
hearty elbow
Oh, it's hard for me to tell lol, I thought it was Dio
mossy light
i guess you could say it was hammer time
gilded nymph
damit
I wonder if I should go splitting headache or support fire to get fully loaded
mossy light
a bird in hand.
bronze sorrel
I use hera and get 10 hammers
@gilded nymph if you avoid hammers the game keeps trying to give them, so if you see the second hammer and the other option isn't something you need, you might want to just take it so it won't be offered again.
stark ore
Jesus, managed to get Touch of Styx, Touch of Styx Dark, and both SD Athena boons
This is insane
stark ore
32
Got the 2sack, but Touch of Styx Normal ran out
Still prob gonna be a win though
Also does Unhealthy Fixation's 15% chance activate every time Weak is applied?
onyx parcel
stark ore
Thought it would trigger the chance every second weak was active or something, makes sense that it's every time it's applied though
turbid needle
gyan yu special truly is something else
mossy light
quite
primal hazel
Dash strike with Serrated is also fun
stark ore
Also damn Hyper Sprint is nuts
mossy light
is it? its fine i guess
stark ore
Seriously underrated, basically made the urns a joke and helps a ton with not being hit
primal hazel
Well you could just not stand in the giant f off area when urns explode
stark ore
I'm probably biased because I love speedy upgrades in games but man Hyper Sprint is just really fluid and lets you dodge bosses much more easily
willow fossil
I take hyper sprint cause it lets me look for golden urns faster
stark ore
The common version is meh, the rare is decent, but the epic is really solid since you're almost always getting that speed boost when dashing
0.2 seconds over the common makes a big difference
stark ore
Personally I'll take any version aside from the common, it's just short enough to where you have short bits of no speed buff even with Greater Reflex
turbid needle
so has anyone had a good blitz disc build? lol
stark ore
Athena special, the rest is up to you
Merciful End might be good with Athena special and Ares attack actually
Gonna test that out actually, sounds dope
turbid needle
why is blitz disc so loud lol
willow fossil
Lmao asking the real questions
gilded nymph
is relentless or concentrated volley better on chiron
obviously you want both
but if I have to choose
unkempt pagoda
i think concentrated wins out in dps
untold iris
concentrated volley does more damage as long as you hit with every arrow
hearty elbow
Concentrated always won out in DPS, even before the nerf, but especially now. The issue with Concentrated is that every arrow isn't guaranteed to hit at some ranges and on some terrains
untold iris
I think concentrated volley adds +84 single target damage if you hit with all arrows
hearty elbow
So you can notice your DPS being quite low sometimes if the last arrows in the volley do not connect.
untold iris
whereas relentless adds +40 damage
I think the volleys are fairly easy to connect on bosses most of the time since there isnt weird terrain
hearty elbow
I think it's +112 now, since 8 arrows
untold iris
but I do notice that a lot of the time I'm missing arrows in elysium because a lot of enemies have tiny hitboxes and walls get in the way
I think its 84 with 8 arrow right?
hearty elbow
0 + 4 + 8 + 12 + 16 + 20 + 24 + 28
unkempt pagoda
it is +3
untold iris
yeah then it should be 84
unkempt pagoda
unless they shadow buffed it lol
hearty elbow
Is it? What am I thinking of? I know one of the concentrated are +4
unkempt pagoda
rail's is +1 and fists' are +5
hearty elbow
Huh
untold iris
relentless volley adds +4 shots, maybe that's what you were thinking of?
hearty elbow
Shrug, I doubt it, I'm probably just wrong
untold iris
also random mechanics question, how does the fists +5 stacking damage work
if I dash attack does that interrupt the pattern?
hearty elbow
The fist has a combo that is 3, 5 or 6 attacks long (depending on hammer)
untold iris
Your Attack deals +5 base damage for each uninterrupted hit to a foe.
if dash attacking interrupts the streak then the hammer is probably bad and I should stop taking it
unkempt pagoda
i think if you're playing fists, you're not gonna put something on attack that'll be affected by base damage increases
like, you're putting zeus or ares on attack, who cares if you get +25 dmg or not
hearty elbow
Chaos boons, Hydraulic Might? Idk if that's worth lol but it's not nothing
And it's more than a lot of Malphon's hammers
Consider that the 2nd punch is already 50% more damage lmao
untold iris
i mostly take the two hammers that buff dash attack if I can
other than that I'm not sure what im supposed to be taking on fists lol
gilded nymph
holy crap em4 is hard
willow fossil
Yes
gilded nymph
how did I beat it first try then proceed to get clapped by hades 4 times in a row now
dam
frigid gale
em4?
mossy light
bah, just get FO2 online. then everything is hard! 
willow fossil
Extreme measures
mossy light
i figure ill start by working towards FO2, then Ill be running around like an anime hero with training weights on
opal lodge
putting zeus on rama special feels weird
i want to tag enemies with my special to set up big attacks
but they just die when i shoot them with special
unkempt pagoda
zeus special is what i would do for a special-only rama build
opal lodge
yeah i just kind of fell into it
unkempt pagoda
gets crazy when you add double strike and splitting
opal lodge
was hoping for aphro/dio but it happened
got the epic hermes special boon
and its basically a special weapon now
unkempt pagoda
machine gun go brr
did you know that if hades is behind a pillar, you can spam into the pillar and the arrows will bounce onto him
keep the damage up while he's lasering or something
opal lodge
thats hella nice
yeah i usually try to hug him and lose 2 DDs
both equally good options imo
unkempt pagoda
still estuary
One message removed from a suspended account.
opal lodge
that does sound like comedy
mossy light
you might as well use a shield in that case
still estuary
One message removed from a suspended account.
mossy light
nice
i managed to get 170% attack and 20% attack speed or something earlier with gil. that was a fun run
opal lodge
welp i got relentless volley and the zeus legendary i guess this really is a rama special build now
i also got hunting blades on accident
kek
unkempt pagoda
also, hb lol
still estuary
One message removed from a suspended account.
opal lodge
eris also makes my hand hurt
i have attack M1, cast M2, special M4, call M5
literally arthritis simulator
mossy light
how is eris so bad?
robust anchor
:(
gilded nymph
somehow my eris zeus attack build turned into a cast build
and holy crap this does so much damage
north panther
Wait, does just having Artemis call/boons give you a little crit chance on anything, period?
north panther
I keep seeing crit flashes on my normal attacks but I don't have pressure points or anything
north panther
Zeus shield
worn crypt
Is being doomed a status effect for Privileged Position?
willow fossil
Yes
worn crypt
hmmm ok thanks
willow fossil
Yes
north panther
I thought cuz it says "bonus crit chance" it meant only to stuff with crit chance already
willow fossil
No it increases your crit chance against hangover foes
opal lodge
@worn crypt yes while the doom is ticking
north panther
Noice
opal lodge
not sure if the doom expiring does +40
worn crypt
Final boon before Hades were vengeful mood or the one that gives +30% after you use a death defiance in the fight. I only have chill to proc PP so I took the vengeful mood as I have the doom revenge
willow fossil
Only weapons that can crit without artemis boons are zag bow and nemesis sword
opal lodge
@worn crypt that is a very interesting setup id be curious to know how it goes
worn crypt
It's not ideal, I would have liked to have jolted but did not see zeus except as my first boon in tartarus
Nope, choked again. Made it to ||phase 3|| 3 runs in a row.
oh I meant privileged status, looks like y'all figured that out
heavy umbra
What are some good boons/hammers for ||Aspect of Rama?||
worn crypt
Aphro/Artemis Attack, some sort of on hit effect for Special (Doom/Chill/Hangover)
Twin Shot is very good as a hammer. I like the +4 special shots.
unkempt pagoda
i have a whole thing on this, one sec
opal lodge
lol
quaint warren
Trying to get out with Lucifer. Eternal chamber or concentrated beam?
unkempt pagoda
Attack Rama:
- Artemis or Aphrodite attack (but any damage modifier god works)
- Twin is the go-to, but Triple also works (you need to be closer to shotgun with it)
- Chain snowballs Shared Suffering very well
- Point-Blank is amazing on its own but beautiful with Twin or Triple
- Explosive is risky but does a whoooooooole lot of damage
- Perfect is, well, perfect. Patches up Rama's slow charge time and is a great hammer choice regardless
- don't use sniper or repulse lol
Special Rama (assuming you're just gonna spam special):
- Dionysus (wants Hangover-related duo boons) or Zeus (wants to focus down Zeus)
- Doom can also work if you invest some more into Dire Misfortune and Impending Doom
- Relentless, obviously
- You want Swift Flourish
- You can hold down the Special button to machine gun! Take advantage of this so you don't get carpal tunnel
Hybrid Rama:
- Relentless + any of the aforementioned attack hammers above (usually just Twin)
- Damage modifier on attack, Zeus or Dio on special (Dio is better at DC breaking, plus if you use Privileged Status)
- Otherwise, build like Attack Rama
- Go to town
opal lodge
love when people ask about rama nowadays
unkempt pagoda
Trying to get out with Lucifer. Eternal chamber or concentrated beam?
depends on what you have on attack, if zeus go eternal
quaint warren
I have grandma
opal lodge
@quaint warren concentrated beam imo unless you have a flat damage add
unkempt pagoda
the one you really want is flash fire imo
opal lodge
eternal chamber is the one with infinite ammo no ramp right
unkempt pagoda
yeah
opal lodge
god i hate that one lol
unkempt pagoda
concentrated for attacks that work with damage modifiers
quaint warren
the one you really want is flash fire imo
@unkempt pagoda hah to wait until elysium to get my first upgrade
unkempt pagoda
hot take: flash fire should just be base kit
opal lodge
yep
at least the charge time
its been a while since i used luci
does luci get any normal hammers
or is it all exclusive
im tryna recall
unkempt pagoda
only a little
unkempt pagoda
it gets piercing fire and a nerfed hazard bomb, and triple bomb
oh, and targeting system
lament perch
The only mirror talent I haven't cleared with for the prophecy is Stubborn Defiance but I don't know how to survive without DDs
any recommendations for weapon and/or build to try?
quaint warren
It's not that bad if you get some bonus dashes from hermes
You can gtfo dad's spin cycles really easily
placid topaz
lament perch
is Eris good before it's fully upgraded?
lament perch
I'm this close to a lot of titan's blood, but I need to not die to bosses more than once to get it, yay prophecy
willow fossil
heavy umbra
It's easy; just don't get hit.
nova rivet
that tfw when you turn down hermes legendary because its the opposite of your build
unkempt pagoda
lightning rod?
lament perch
It's easy; just don't get hit.
@heavy umbra thanks Hypnos
nova rivet
lightning rod?
yep
heavy umbra
@lament perch I'm hesitant to offer any real advice without knowing how you play. Nevertheless...
lament perch
no shade, I just thought that was a funny response
wicked horizon
Stubborn defiance is definitely tough. Do note you can do a zero heat run and still qualify for the prophecy
heavy umbra
Stack defensive boons. Athena's dash is necessary, and combines well with extra dashes from Hermes. Try to get the Athena legendary (Divine Protection) and take the broken spearpoint to the final fight.
wicked horizon
Bow or gun is probably easiest, stack athenas yeah
Spearpoint or maybe acorn
Also i think skelly's tooth can be used for at least a second DD
heavy umbra
Also, the Athena/Demeter duo boon, Stubborn Roots, is really good. It carried me many times when I was playing badly and getting hit too much.
quaint warren
Stack defensive boons. Athena's dash is necessary, and combines well with extra dashes from Hermes. Try to get the Athena legendary (Divine Protection) and take the broken spearpoint to the final fight.
@heavy umbra I've found the acorn helps me more than the spear point. Hades doesn't often attack real fast and dodging lasers is easy
wicked horizon
Other gods to look for are aphrodite for weak and increased centaur hearts, and dionysus for health from nectars
spare scaffold
Spearpoint is great for Satyr/rat toxin but not Hades himself from my experience
Yeah would go for Acorn here
wicked horizon
If you get to like 300hp you end up with about as much life as 150 with 3 death defiance
heavy umbra
@quaint warren The thing I like about the spearpoint is that it covers for the cooldown on Divine Shield, and vice versa, to some extent.
quaint warren
I can see that
heavy umbra
Demeter in general is quite good if you have trouble not getting hit because chill slows down enemies.
lament perch
thanks for the advice all!
spice vine
I see
robust anchor
i very rarely use it on nornal rooms
spice vine
Also is there a "best" companion
robust anchor
when i do dc2 and fo2 i like antos kekw
robust anchor
shes just easy to miss sometimes
quaint warren
i very rarely use it on nornal rooms
@robust anchor I did have to use it on a room with 4 shields who all had the 'block one hit in a pulse' ability. They all hugged up and I couldn't get through, they were kinda wrecking me
robust anchor
makes sense
opal lodge
i started out using than 🤷♂️
it's just whatever ur comfortable with
i liked the extra damage vs em4 dad and didn't mind giving up the speed
but now he moves too fast
robust anchor
its not as much im scared of dying its more saving lots of time
opal lodge
i mostly switched bc i dont want to miss
and antos misses the least from what ive noticed
spice vine
Wait so to get duo's to appear do I need two of each god for whichy duo I want
or one of each
robust anchor
some boons have prerequisite boons
if you open codex it will tell
or can google alternately but codex easier
spice vine
ohhh
spare scaffold
You used to need the wiki to path your build or trial and error it yourself
Thank the gods for the ingame boon codex
spare scaffold
You are going to use the boon codex a lot
willow fossil
Thank 1.0 for bringing that
spice vine
wait huh in Asophedel and I see a room barge thing with a empty icon
oh wait is that where I cam from?
wicked horizon
Wait so to get duo's to appear do I need two of each god for whichy duo I want
@spice vine duo boons are primarily one from each and it usually needs to be a primary skill (attack, special, cast, dash, call). Many of them have a specific single boon requirement since they deal with enhancing something, i.e. Cold Fusion requires Jolted so you need that boons meaning minimum 2 Zeus boons. Hunting Blades requires Ares Cast. Etc.
heavy umbra
Something that I learned recently: when trying to get duo boons, it can be helpful to try to have all your "core" boons filled - attack, special, cast, dash, call.
If you don't have one of those filled, the game is more likely to offer you a boon of that type to fill the slot. If all the above slots are filled, you're a bit more likely to get that duo boon.
spare scaffold
Yeah I tend to take Sigil if I don't have a Call boon yet for Styx
Cast is whatever if I never needed it
mossy light
wow, positive outlook and the lambent plume do work
helped me tank the last boss right proper
spice vine
wait wth my summon isn't working against final boss? ||even though I've got Peresephone back?||
mossy light
takes a bit before he allows it
spare scaffold
Is it disallowed in phase 1
spare scaffold
I actually forgot about my summon everytime
brisk wave
Random thought again but I was hesitated to say that Chaos reminded me of someone so badly and I'm so glad upon searching I ain't the only one hooboy 
spice vine
who?
brisk wave
James Charles, apparently its been in the conversation in this server now hahaha
spice vine
oh I can see that
brisk wave
I don't want to offend the game artists but they remind me so much every time lmao
rugged wave
do people usually run fo2?
worn crypt
Not until you get to like 36+ heat
rugged wave
ok lol cuz I was like this is kinda rough
brisk wave
oh shoot i was in the wrong channel my bad!!!
rugged wave
especially if they got the stupid speed buff on top of that
mossy light
FO2 is much worse than FO1?
worn crypt
Much
rugged wave
I cant see it being super practical for arthur
stark ore
The aura helps deal with FO2, though it can mess you up sometimes
solid portal
hello all
lament gull
Hey everyone, I wanna share my first build I theorycrafted. I didn't even win because I made so many missplays! There ended up too much to keep track of.
I had to reload my aspect of hestia, remember to triple special to proc targeting system. I had to keep track of my cast, as it reset every 2.5 seconds, but it procced the dem/dio duo boon, AND I had to aid every 3 seconds to spin to win with ares's legendary
solid portal
Any opinion on Lucifer aspect?
quaint warren
After running Rama, what's the point of the knockback hammer? It doesn't do damage and can push people out of range of twin shot
Any opinion on Lucifer aspect?
@solid portal finally unlocked luci today, ran it on one blood. I want to love it cause who doesn't like lasers?
But it's disappointing
turbid needle
Lucifer is awesome.
lament gull
How do you unlock Luci?
turbid needle
It's Attack is a ramping laser.
quaint warren
It IS lasers
turbid needle
Basically a Prothean Particle Rifle.
solid portal
Basically a Prothean Particle Rifle.
@turbid needle I don't know what that is but it sounds amazing
turbid needle
Ah, too specific of a reference.
Damage starts weak and as you maintain on a target it goes up.
Way up if you can maintain a lock long enough.
solid portal
like promethean lens in destiny 2
quaint warren
It's a cool weapon but it's slow. Someone mentioned earlier that they think one of it's hammers, flash fire, should be built in
Not sure about that one but it does feel underwhelming
It's difficult to use the special
turbid needle
I also play with MKB which is way better for Lucifer than controller.
quaint warren
I play controller from my couch
tranquil violet
Controller gang
turbid needle
That may be why Lucy doesn't gel as well with you.
tranquil violet
Imagine only having four directional movement inputs
tranquil violet
Imagine only having eight discrete directional movement inputs
turbid needle
I'll have you know that it's been a very long time since I've burned myself to death on magma in EM2.
Only like, two weeks.
solid portal
I switched to control for this game
its the first game Ive ever used controller on pc
and ive been gaming for 38 years
lol
turbid needle
Controller is recommended but there's plenty of players who succeed at high Heat with MKB.
solid portal
jesus im getting old
quaint warren
turbid needle
Yes, Lucifer works akin to Destiny's Trace Rifles.
unkempt pagoda
lucy’s pretty 👍
quaint warren
Only one I'm missing is the shield. I think Rama is my favorite of the hidden aspects. Guan Yu felt better to me than the base spear. I beat the run with only one or two levels in it and I was surprised cause I don't really like the spear
umbral surge
does the Lucifer Aspect for Rail Gun better with % based or fixed based damage? (Attack)
turbid needle
Probably specifically Lightning Strike.
quaint warren
Probably fixed, especially if you get the eternal chamber
I can see the doom stacking boons working well
turbid needle
I beat 32 Heat back during Blood Price with Deadly Strike.
umbral surge
ah okay, so the dmg calculation is similar to the other attack modes then
spare scaffold
I'm between Hades or Guan Yu for fav spear
umbral surge
spear for me is Achilles for some reason, but Guan Yu close 2nd
spare scaffold
Not feeling Achilles since the special is a bit finicky - good thing I have control over special dash or regular retrieve but I should try it on a cast build some day
tranquil violet
But all three play completely differently
Achilles special is just mobility and buff
The damage from it is inconsequential
It shines with a cast build
The more than doubling of the next two casts' damage is 👌
quaint warren
What cast would you run with it? Ares, Demeter?
stark ore
Imo Ares w/Hunting Blades is the best cast for Achilles, it’s hard to get but does insane damage
tranquil violet
It is indeed great
quaint warren
Oh so it doesn't affect the whole cast? Why would it affect Ares then?
tranquil violet
Poseidon with Sea Storm is also great
turbid needle
It does affect the whole Cast.
spare scaffold
Semantics but I think DOT would be Dio and Demeter with Killing Freeze
spare scaffold
Demeter cast by default would just be constant damage
stark ore
Meme Beam has the power to be busted with Achilles and Stygian Soul, but it’s really hard to pull off
spare scaffold
I'd rather run Infernal Soul
Triple the turrets triple the damage.. if the target doesn't just dash out of the killzone
stark ore
Infernal Soul’s better for every cast except Demeter, yeah
quaint warren
Go for hermes legendary
stark ore
Though Infernal Soul’s better out the gate, Stygian needs a bunch of boons to be insane
Hermes’ legendary is the best with Ares imo since the rifts don’t get stuck
spare scaffold
I honestly haven't seen use much for Stygian without Hermes cast boons like you said
And so far I got only one fated persuasion so..
- keys
stark ore
Mainly Demeter’s cast boons too, you can get like 10 extra seconds on meme beam with the right boons and poms
robust anchor
memebeamdream
lament perch
Made it to ||dad's second healthbar|| but didn't quite win my SD run
spare scaffold
SD is just.. rough
It seems to benefit more from Athena/Chaos SD boons + loads of centaur hearts but I keep forgetting about it
Is there a reason why you'd ever touch SD outside of prophecy
robust anchor
always be 30% health
spare scaffold
Oh that doesn't get reduced?
robust anchor
no
spare scaffold
Nice
robust anchor
peepohappy
lament perch
I got all the athena boons too, but I didn't get my attack boon until like...styx
Also it would probably help if I had my aspect maxed but
I'm here bc I need titans blood, want that sweet sweet prophecy 15
mossy light
okay, patroculus didnt spawn. clearly the game has rigged RNG. and its totally not my fault for challenging charon and losing 3 lives
unkempt pagoda
at least you won lol
mossy light
wooo, i beat EM theseus though, objective complete?
charon isnt so bad once you can read him
he only closes in on you to do the oar slap for example
quaint warren
Might try it with the shield even if I don't like the shield
junior harbor
On the topic of lucifer, does Concentrated Beam have a damage cap? Like, does it ramp up to a max of X dps after Y seconds, or does it just take the tick ramp rate and double it?
snow furnace
