like, flamewheels aren’t the worst thing elysium can throw at me, and if i get more of them i get less, like, elite chariots or whatever
#h1-builds-and-combat
half crater
opal lodge
the speeder elite chariots
half crater
is my theory, anyway
stark ore
I've gotten BP2 cloner shifter skulls before and it's total hell, 10/10 would recommend
spice vine
is the slowing bloodstone better than the damage buff
cunning urchin
Elite Chariots ended a very good 50 Heat run yesterday.
rare kayak
cloner skulls is very fun with hades aspect massive spin
opal lodge
i just
sometimes they have no speed whatsoever
and still have a hitbox
i dont get it
angy
cunning urchin
One hit me like 4 times before I could dash out lol.
rare kayak
sometimes you lose and that is life
either that or its the damn chariots again
its a captain picard quote
cunning urchin
Even when you win, Chariots will kill you.
worldly trellis
Yo is it just me or do you guys NEVER get a fountain in Asphodel?
half crater
it happens
worldly trellis
I feel like I've seen it once, but it was so long ago Im not even sure anymore
opal lodge
i get it about as much as any other region
rare kayak
when hades says there is no escape he actually means chariots
ive had it like four runs in a row so my confirmation bias is strong right jow
opal lodge
thats gotta be the funniest ending
spice vine
The first time through Elyisum I was like "who wants a item to despawn a mob" then I started buying that everytime I saw it
half crater
yeah he meant “no escape form chariots” but zag is very rude and never lets him finish his sentences
opal lodge
when you walk out onto the surface and get run over by a chariot
half crater
it’s pretty good
rare kayak
there is no escape hades mod where an invincible chariot appears in every room
opal lodge
@half crater also while flame wheels arent the worst thing
they count very little toward the difficulty cap for a room
which means they make your run slower
cunning urchin
You don't get it about as much as any other region because Asphodel is the shortest region.
gleaming current
Hey, at least flame wheels do not require you chasing them across the map like strongbows
half crater
it doesn’t take absurdly long to take out a room full of flamewheels tho
opal lodge
it doesnt it's just the spawn time
rare kayak
honestly asphodel is weird because its got final area vibes while having first area length
half crater
they take themselves out half the time
opal lodge
and then you have the one flame wheel with his head screwed on backwards revving in the corner
spice vine
is there a way to make sure the charcter room spanws dunno there actual name
like Eurydice etc
half crater
i don’t run TD3 tho so i could be wrong
cunning urchin
Flamewheels also don't do 400 damage in 2 seconds like Strongbows.
half crater
^
rare kayak
dont forget the classic snake statue pushed way out of bounds by that one poseidon boon you took because there wasnt a better choice
cunning urchin
From off-screen.
opal lodge
i feel like elysium really is just a choose your own death type of place
rare kayak
or the medusa head pushed about 500 meters from land
opal lodge
bruiser slugger chariots let's go
gleaming current
Shifter Speeder ngl
spice vine
In conclusion nuke ELyisum
spice vine
zoomy guy?
rare kayak
what an annoying miniboss
rare kayak
at least the power couple have the manners to kill me quickly
half crater
sneak is fun with any weapon imo
half crater
but i can see why people find it annoying
opal lodge
i dont like it with rama
opal lodge
but other than that im ok
spice vine
that worked
gleaming current
He isn't entirely fun with chiron
half crater
with chiron he’s a bit amusing yeah
opal lodge
savior is one of those perks that i dont care about until im running damage control on top of it
rare kayak
chiron rama and excalibur make him annoying to fight
half crater
especially with FO2
half crater
but as soon as he stands still for half a second he dies
rare kayak
i mean just compare him and doomstone i guess
gleaming current
arthur is fine tbh, you can double thrust and that's sufficient damage for the dude
opal lodge
just stand in the middle of the room and swing away
rare kayak
doomstone is just pathetic compared to him
opal lodge
your swing literally hits half the room
you can also reactively dash to where sneak reappears
gleaming current
In which part is doomstone not pathetic tbh
opal lodge
doomstone is nice in EM4 because it at least gives me the dopamine rush of killing all the little bois before dad shish kabobs me
rare kayak
honestly doomstone butterfly ball and barge are just the same three miniboss encounters reskinned
half crater
doomstone is pretty easy, yeah, but for some reason i still dash straight into the lasers half the time and idk why
i think it’s just my fate at this point
gleaming current
Doomed by stones
half crater
instead of trying to avoid them, i just try and kill it before it does any damage to me at this point
work pretty well
opal lodge
my least favorite thing with doomstone is trying to block with chaos shield and realise my shields still bouncing aimlessly around the room
rare kayak
well yeah thats doomstone barge and ball in a nutshell
opal lodge
devs please fix dread flight
rare kayak
just hit the big enemy as much as possible before things get complicated
opal lodge
please
half crater
you can no hit it pretty easily by just dashing around basically randomly
rare kayak
barge probably has the worst cleanup depending on how you play
opal lodge
yeah you can
rare kayak
out of the three
opal lodge
huge timewaste
wet rivet
Ball sucks simply because butterflies sucks in general
gleaming current
chain skewer is worse tbh
One time in tartarus it went through a wall and was absent for legit 6 seconds
wet rivet
They're not hard, just annoying
opal lodge
i wasnt even aware chain skewer was broken
rare kayak
ya crabbar but have u considered
opal lodge
LMAO
half crater
hmm
gleaming current
the spear is bouncy, and has even more bounces than dread flight
wet rivet
Also yesterday I encountered a flaming wheel room on bp2 without Athena dash, they had speed and blink
Scariest encounter ever
opal lodge
ya hate to see it
spice vine
bp is the one that makes armoured foes have perks right?
wet rivet
Ye
rare kayak
i think ive only encountered witch circle without an athena boon once
was not very fun
wet rivet
Dashing through walls was moot since most blinked through it
opal lodge
slugger chariots with HL on are the run ender
gleaming current
Strategy: take Owl pendant in Asphodel to get Divine dash. 100% chance for the boon to end up on witch circle fight
opal lodge
that has happened to me so many times
opal lodge
also for the life of me no matter how many times i do the power couple fight on MM i always get hit by the shockwave
opal lodge
yeah i just need to not be an idiot lol
half crater
lol
opal lodge
easier said than done
cunning urchin
That fight is so easy, though.
rare kayak
yeah but you will never be as good as me
hit by stone > dash out > hit by shockwave > dash out > hit by shockwave again
half crater
oh yeah
wet rivet
Dash in
opal lodge
its not hard no
wet rivet
half crater
i’ve always been morbidly curious as to whether you can get hit by the same shockwave three times
rare kayak
im cursed with talent
half crater
with the right speed buffs
opal lodge
same
ive definitely gotten double hit by the hades skull shockwaves
because i am smart
half crater
same
rare kayak
for some reason power couple just mindfloods me
half crater
we are pros here
rare kayak
every other encounter is fine
wet rivet
Nuke dusas mom while dodging stone bro
half crater
sorry nyaanyaa i dunno if you’re skilled enough to get hit
opal lodge
dying? can't relate
half crater
it requires great talent and a lot of practice
cunning urchin
I've never died in my life.
wet rivet
Nyan can't even get hit, what a pleb 
gleaming current
How can you be a worthy disciple of Aphrodite if you can't even get hit?
cunning urchin
I only get hit on. I don't get hit. 
rare kayak
youre not developing your abilities as a disciple of aphrodite if you dont use her status curse to the fullest
tbh
opal lodge
its a shame achilles cant have chain skewer
rare kayak
saying you dont get hit is like saying lady aphrodite’s status curse is useless
opal lodge
stuff would be funny
rare kayak
it used to
opal lodge
"sometimes i just throw the spear and go wherever it takes me"
rare kayak
what would have been funnier wouldve been if zag followed the path the spear took instead of straight line
gleaming current
Oh goodness
rare kayak
nyoom
half crater
or zag counted as a separate spear toss, and followed a different path
total chaos
it would be glorious
opal lodge
zag, short for zigzag
rare kayak
hades shouldve had local coop with zag’s twin zigreus
cant believe sgg missed this golden opportunity
smh
half crater
a blunder, to be sure
cunning urchin
What happens when Zag zigs instead of zags? ||He dies.||
rare kayak
hes looks the same but has a blue colour scheme and his feet are REALLY wet
half crater
zigreus was even a real greek myth character, pretty sure
-homer, probably
cunning urchin
It's a quote from Homer, so it must be true.
rare kayak
just incredibly soggy feet
cunning urchin
@rare kayak that's his uncle.
gleaming current
He does wear a towel, while at that
cunning urchin
Don't be afraid, his strikes don't hurt.
half crater
isn’t he like, the least rng based boss fight in the game?
rare kayak
i mean its a fun fight and also gives great benefits
admittedly i lose a death defiance 90% of the time but half of that is just no chance to learn
stable egret
Im only on 4 heat atm but charron i can beat pretty consistently
He has pretty simple moves and they're pretty easy to see coming
Ig he charges you just dash forward
Honestly hardest part is his million purple clouds he summons here and there
O i read wrong
Yea he doesnt show up enough
rare kayak
yeah but u mess up one hit and you eat a lot of damage
ive fought him like three times total i think
or four
doesnt help that i had a habit of skipping midshops but im workin on that
stable egret
Yea lol i think all his clouds have 20 base damage but his oar strike is a whopping 40
I only ever take the chance if ik im in an okay spot
Down 2 death defiances isnt the end of the world to me atm
Rerolling shops seems to get me death defiances back consistently
spice vine
Is the little circle aura on buffed armoured foes a speed boost?
brisk trench
On its own
gleaming current
On its own its only 400
brisk trench
Oh my b
I swear I didnt have the boost boon though. Odd. Ill have to check nexxt time I fight him
gleaming current
Might have been something else boosting then
Maybe eris?
Although not sure if it does boost that
brisk trench
Does gilga cause bonus damage with deflect?
gleaming current
Shouldn't
brisk trench
Ill do some testing later then
Ive seen it do 400 and 700 so its 100% possible Im reading the numbers wrong of forget something.
400 is still enough on deflect to take the fight when you can if you have the ability imo. Shame his wave attack doesnt hurt him on deflect
wet rivet
Isn't maim 25% flat damage increase from all sources?
brisk trench
I also had boosted maim from hammer
spice vine
Does EM3 Thesus go back to non EM3 once you get him to his second phase
rare kayak
basically yeah
i dunno if theres a change in health or anything
though
but its the same fight
rare kayak
i wouldnt know considering how easy it is to burst him down in the middle of his transition
spice vine
yeah
rare kayak
he rarely lives long
spice vine
him doing his hero pose is a nice traget
spice vine
Is the Sigil of the dEad any good
gleaming current
So far I only saw speedrunners utilize it
But 2 seconds of +100% damage aint too bad ig
keen sandal
can ya guys tell me any aegis zues aspect builds?
cunning urchin
Lightning Flourish is popular, but there's no real Duo Boon to go for in that build except maybe Cold Fusion. You're mostly just getting more Lightning Bolt boons and aim for the Legendary.
reef galleon
spice vine
huh
cunning urchin
Curse of Pain, Divine Strike, Merciful End is also popular on Zeus Aspect.
Drunken Flourish can combo with Ladies Aphrodite and Artemis and with Lord Ares for Duo Boons.
spice vine
On EM1 I swear I sometimes see the same sister as the main one do the flying attack in the background
cunning urchin
spice vine
I'm on switch
cunning urchin
#h1-tech-support then, of course. 
spice vine
Well i'm not sure if it's me seeing things
cunning urchin
Although I think you're probably imagining it, it's easy to confuse them in the heat of the moment.
But there've been weirder bugs.
spice vine
Like i'm fighting meg and I swear one of the two flying is blue
cunning urchin
Video clip or screenshot isn't possible on Switch?
solid grail
What's a good boon for the special of aspect of Hades ?
I go Zeus on attack but I'm still not quite sure what a good special boon to pair with it is?
rare kayak
honestly i rarely use special
on spear
if running privileged status i would take aphro or demeter for longer lasting statuses
solid grail
Cool thank you :)
rare kayak
id go for aphro and demeter if it was me because i like their duos with zeus
if ur feeling dummy spicy you can grab dio trippy shot and hope for scintillating feast ice wine
spice vine
Can you have more than one duo
rare kayak
yes
i believe the only time duos cant spawn is in trials of the gods and even then its only with the other god in the trial
spice vine
wait
rare kayak
although dont quote me on that
spice vine
I just got two duos
rare kayak
otherwise theyre treated as any other boon
spice vine
on one boon choice
rare kayak
yep
spice vine
Oh wow Dio/Posedion duos are neat
the one I got earlier this run was pom level up
this one is epic guartee
rare kayak
exclusive access is pretty great imo as long as you get it before chamber 15
after that its still pretty good
and after elysium its basically just fodder for gold
cunning urchin
i believe the only time duos cant spawn is in trials of the gods
and even then its only with the other god in the trial
No Duo Boons in trials.
fair plinth
No Duo Boons in trials.
@cunning urchin
huh. TIL
tranquil violet
Legendaries in trials ever?
untold vortex
It's possible (assuming you meet the pre-reqs)
spice vine
Oh in Styx can multiple tunnels have the purple shop
cunning urchin
Yeah.
untold vortex
Similarly, multiple tunnels can have pools of purging
cunning urchin
And every tunnel has Tiny Vermin.
untold vortex
tiny vermin just wants hugs
spice vine
Tiny Vermin true final boss? :monkaHmm:
untold vortex
yep, heard it here first, the true final boss is Tiny Verman
Dusa is just the final boss leading up to the final boss
neat hound
Can Guan yu get good ?
neat hound
It really feels like the worst weapon in the game atm
wet rivet
Go special only and then say the same thing
neat hound
I do
The regular spear gives more entertainment and overall use
I wonder if there is some boons that can make it better
neat hound
that's what i'm doing too but it's just bad compared to the other spears
they all are better
cunning urchin
You'll want to rotate Special > Dash-Strike > Dash-Strike with Guan Yu, and avoid Forced Overtime.
wet rivet
And you can always use the spin for healing
cunning urchin
Best hammers are Serrated Point and Charged Skewer; Breaching Skewer if you can't get either, and Massive Spin as a fallback option when you can't get any of those three.
wet rivet
I still need to try a dedicated spin build on hades
cunning urchin
It's great until very high heats where you don't get around adding FO1 or FO2.
wet rivet
I'm also a bit scared about snipers
cunning urchin
Hades Aspect's debuff doesn't do anything for spin attacks.
cunning urchin
Attack, Dash-Strikes, and Special.
wet rivet
Isn't spin counted as attack
cunning urchin
Not for the debuff.
wet rivet
Well that's dumb
gleaming current
Well
wet rivet
Cause eris can do its thing
cunning urchin
Eris is broken. Everything else will obviously seem weak in comparison lol.
wet rivet
How much we talking? Haven't tried hades at all
gleaming current
Uhh +40% if I were to guess
wet rivet
Oh that's quite substantial alright
spice vine
with the spin raidus hammer
I was reaching the smaller rooms in styx fully
at max charge
manic grove
dumb question: if i have ares's curse of pain (special), will it get boosted by chaos's +special damage boost or will it apply only to the weapon's base damage?
cunning urchin
The radius is huge with Hades Aspect, but you use the spin mainly to apply the debuff, then use Attacks, Dash-Strikes, and Specials to finish them off.
@manic grove only base damage.
manic grove
@cunning urchin thanks!
gleaming current
This is what Massive Spin Hades Spear is https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/546306968042602516/768451900264939570/unknown.png
spice vine
insert iDubbz "ooh thats big"
viscid pawn
Sell me on the spear; it just feels like a clunky sword
Where the nova is bigger but you have to stand still to do it
wet rivet
Spear dash strike is a like a 5th the size of that nova, long range, fast attacks, high mobility with Achilles
viscid pawn
Default
solid cairn
Achilles is a cast hybrid weapon
Default is a weapon where you want to be using the special as much as possible
viscid pawn
It deals so little on special though
gleaming current
Default is where you cry in a corner for good hammers
Specials is for Zag aspect
solid cairn
Though I feel it gets outclassed by the hidden spear when it comes to special builds
wet rivet
Hitbox for dash strike is dummy thicc my dude
solid cairn
Guan yu is where you cry in a corner for hammers but you can still win if you don’t get them
Serrated point is really fun
solid cairn
Oh you shouldn’t spin much without QS
solid cairn
Well quick spin GY is broken
gleaming current
Oh if only
solid cairn
Easiest 32 heat of my life
Get Athena attack and you can just stand in the spin and be safe
viscid pawn
So what is spear's DPS supposed to be, if special does 30-ish damage on a hit, and takes that long to pull back?
cunning urchin
Base spear? No idea tbh I don't play that. I only play Guan Yu really. Gonna learn the others sometime though.
gleaming current
I don't use specials
It's either flurry spear, dashstrikes, or hades aspect for me
gleaming current
Eris should be a 2nd one, albeit it's more of "all goes" than cast at this point
solid cairn
oh yeah that sounds fun
I feel like SG really wanted talos to be the next achilles but it didnt work
In theory I should like achilles spear
cunning urchin
Achilles works so much better when you have exactly 4 ammo.
solid cairn
yeah
gleaming current
The worst with 3 since, well, you have that 1 exact attack to waste every time
cunning urchin
Yup.
solid cairn
I feel like I'm not utilizing attacks enough
well, dash strikes
general gameplan with achilles I think is stand back and cast and then start dash striking while waiting for casts to come back
cunning urchin
I'll take Massive Spin over Quick Spin any time. But I guess Quick Spin is better once you add FO.
For Guan Yu.
solid cairn
idk being able to quickly throw out a huge deflecting circle is pretty great
cunning urchin
Wait for casts to come back? You can just pick them up with Electric Shot.
I just care for damage on Guan Yu lol.
cunning urchin
Was good enough for 32, at least.
solid cairn
I prefer poseidon cast to zeus outside of speedruns
cunning urchin
I haven't tried anything beyond that. I think that was my only completed Achilles run lol.
I treat 32 and below like speedruns, pretty much.
Unless I want to test something.
gleaming current
That'd imply 50+ is slow runs and they are by no definition slow 
cunning urchin
Yeah, but 50+ you care for survivability lol.
32 I'll go High Confidence on Guan Yu.
Dying from 2 Lernie attacks is the real way to play Guan Yu.
gleaming current
I insist on slugger thug oneshot being the true ending
silk niche
Achilles was the go to hunting blades spear before the nerf
It's by far my least favorite weapon though
solid cairn
it's weird
beowulf is also weird
well it's still the go to spear for hunting blades because none of the others boost casts
half crater
achilles was nerfed? what did it used to do
its still real solid for hunting blades tbh
solid cairn
no I think they nerfed hunting blades
unkempt pagoda
if anything achilles was buffed lol
solid cairn
at some point
solid cairn
the great artemis cast boon nerf hurt all cast aspects
dual shot becoming a duo, quick shot now belonging to hermes,
fully loaded nerf
unkempt pagoda
and achilles used to only buff two attacks/casts, rather than its current 4
spice vine
Man getting unlucky on 13 heat and dying to mobs
unkempt pagoda
it was all part of the great spear buff of blood price
half crater
i do remember Hades being buffed then
half crater
blood price was the name of the last EA update pre launch
spice vine
ooooh
half crater
i believe it was called that because that's when they added the spend hp for gold well item tho, yeah
spice vine
oooh I see
quasi tundra
they should buff swords at some point. Because as of now I with relative ease can do 6-8 heat on anything else, but I'm stuck with 3-4 on this useless stick
foggy wagon
idk poseidon and blender are pretty sick, and people love the hidden aspect
half crater
lol
unkempt pagoda
spear wasn't great before bp, but after the buff they're really good now
half crater
subtle how you didn't mention zag aspect
quasi tundra
well the point of hidden aspect is that is "hidden"
as if I don't have it yet for a sword
and first 2 aspects are maxed and utterly useless
spice vine
the hidden hits like a runaway train onto a human body
unkempt pagoda
nemesis
useless
cunning urchin
Maybe Zag sword, but I imagine it won't go through another iteration lol.
The others are fine.
half crater
yeah i'm fine with the other swords
i can't do anything with them, but that's a me problem i'm pretty sure
gleaming current
Just gotta keep cherishing that hypothetical heroic attack speed flurry cursed blade build on zag sword
half crater
ngl i have dreamt about this
spare scaffold
At least the default aspects are cheap to upgrade
quasi tundra
low attack rating doesn't allow permastunning guys like knuckles can, lacks range, even the projectile buff sucks as it doesn't carry the boon
half crater
and i don't even like cursed slash lol
cunning urchin
Nemesis was one of the easiest sub 12 for me.
quasi tundra
only once had fun with it after I stacked 60% atk speed buff + the hold to atk thingie
cunning urchin
Special > Dash-Strike > Dash-Strike > repeat.
spare scaffold
15% speed boost is not bad but yeah crit after special is just too good
gleaming current
Nemesis 40 heat without Double Edge hammer
That's Nemesis for me
half crater
i know the spec/dashstrike/dashstrike thing, but i just always miss all my dash strikes lol
i'm hilariously bad at sword micro
unkempt pagoda
funny how the promotional/signature weapon is also one of the most useless
half crater
its useful
spare scaffold
I still like how it plays though
half crater
zag sword is pretty big in the new save clear meta
cunning urchin
@gleaming current that's my only problem with Nemesis lol.
There's 1 hammer for it that really does anything.
gleaming current
I meant as in, it won without double edge
What it does with one I only get to imagine
cunning urchin
So in other words, you basically had no hammer.
gleaming current
Yeah
half crater
that not true, other hammers can do things for nem
gleaming current
Me: can i have double edge?
Game: we have double edge at home
Double Edge at home: Cruel Thrust
half crater
like, curse slash gives you less health
quasi tundra
compare it to other second aspects, bow becomes broken af, knuckles now synergize with poseidon even better, shield leans heavily into doom builds.
with the sword we get more crits. And that's it
half crater
that's a thing
unkempt pagoda
when you want double edge but the hammer gives you dash nova, cursed slash, and hoarding slash
gleaming current
Hoarding slash ez
cunning urchin
In my experience, you don't need HP if you don't get hit.
half crater
In my experience, you don't need HP if you don't get hit.
@cunning urchin touché
half crater
yeah honestly why does cruel thrust exist
gleaming current
Now if you said cursed slash, dash nova and world splitter...
cunning urchin
Dash Nova is alright, though.
half crater
like, who went "hey, we need double edge but worse"
cunning urchin
At least that speeds things up in a way.
unkempt pagoda
cruel thrust should be compatible with arthur
gleaming current
Dash Nova: teleport at a random point in the room. Gain 0.8s of Sturdy
spare scaffold
I had the double dash strike hammer on Arthur and it was alright
half crater
yeah like, where will you end up after using dash nova? none can say
its an experiment
cunning urchin
I don't like Dash Nova on Poseidon at all, but it's nice on Nemesis.
spare scaffold
Though I couldn't hit anything worth a damn
half crater
oof on poseidon it would be pain
unkempt pagoda
not really
gleaming current
Depends, if you get used to it you get free dash when unlodging stones
half crater
maybe if you're used to it lol
spare scaffold
Dash Nova on Nem is a lot of fun though ngl
unkempt pagoda
safe, fast removal of casts, makes an easy get-away so you can start casting again
half crater
but i have a lot invested in not getting used to dash nova
gleaming current
That's like Spread Fire
spare scaffold
It's lunging forward before special right?
Granted it takes away some control of positioning the special from you but I liked the mobility
half crater
yeah pretty much
cunning urchin
Snap Nova was so much better than Dash Nova.
Too bad people got motion sick using it. 
half crater
i hated snap nova with a passion (like a few people haha) and dash nova reminds me of it too much lol
its probably not as bad as i think it is
yup it me
unkempt pagoda
sgg should've just removed the return snap part of snap nova
half crater
i am the motion sick person
unkempt pagoda
but i wouldn't say dash nova is useless, it's just a little niche
its my pos sword babie
frosty jolt
Ahhh...that feel when you ||summon Bouldy|| and hit both ||extreme|| bull and douchebag 
half crater
like most things sword, the problem is probably just that i'm bad at it
spare scaffold
It's easy to pick up and also easy to die with it in my experience
half crater
bouldy always comes in clutch
slim kraken
I made a steam controller config for a pseudo twin stick functionality.
steam://controllerconfig/1145360/2263859021
Works almost perfectly from my test run, feels great.
1 small error though with it disabling the mouse when you start to move from centre.
half crater
hmm some competition for the infamous controller and mouse setup, perhaps?
idk i'm not a controller guy lol
cunning urchin
Dance pad.
slim kraken
personally prefer controller for games like this
keyboard and mouse is my go to for fps
half crater
okay i've said this before, but: hades necrodancer crossover when?
i don't know why i want this but i do
gilded nymph
cunning urchin
Drunken Flourish or Thunder Flourish.
Deadly Strike or Heartbreak Strike.
Divine Dash or Hunter Dash.
willow fossil
It it wise buying hermes from a shop?
unkempt pagoda
as wise as buying any other boon in a shop
it'll take him out of the reward pool too
proven osprey
non epic hermes boons are so underwhelming
drifting vale
Chamber wealth and greatest reflex at any rarity are really good
willow fossil
Wdym take him out of the reward pool
gleaming current
I'd gladly take common greatest reflex over epic one, for some reason
Excessive amount of dashes seems to hurt the playstyle
foggy wagon
IDK why anyone would want 7 dashes
willow fossil
Worst case scenario 2
I seriously don't need more than 2 dashes
And I hate it
Thats what I hate about gilgamesh
gleaming current
Tbh gilgamesh seems to have another issue on top of that
Like its dashes recharge for longer?
May be just a "me" thing tho
fossil compass
just one shotted EM4 the first time I tried it, feels good man
poseidon + exit wounds feels so good
half crater
how can having more dashes possibly effect you negatively
like, for real i’m trying to understand
willow fossil
Well my main issues is with gilgamesh, even if I press dodge once, I seem to dash twice
foggy wagon
Unless you get an epic hermes dash boon
which, why
How many situations have you been in where you're like "Damn, I wish I had 5 consecutive dashes there."
willow fossil
Lmfao
half crater
lol
foggy wagon
Yeah I guess if you freak out and spam the spacebar it might be valuable but like
half crater
i mean, i agree you’re basically never going to need more than about 3
maybe 4 at a stretch
foggy wagon
I think the one exception is like a dash-strike build
half crater
but that taken aside, how could they actually hurt you?
hearty elbow
How many situations have you been in where you're like "Damn, I wish I had 5 consecutive dashes there."
@foggy wagon A lot if you have Divine Dash, you can just cheese your way through so many things.
foggy wagon
Which, don't those reset dashes on attack anyways?
gleaming current
It has something to do with how dashes have a cooldown that mostly occurs after all dashes have been used
foggy wagon
Okay that's another situation where that's entirely fair
willow fossil
A lot if you have Divine Dash, you can just cheese your way through so many things.
You dont need 5 dashes for this
half crater
but they help
gleaming current
So you do, say, 3 dashes, then 2, try to do 6th one but oops, none left
willow fossil
If you need the extra help yes
foggy wagon
...Could you beat the game with just parries?
hearty elbow
I seem to reading the air in the chat that they somehow "hurt" to have, and I just can't see that
half crater
...Could you beat the game with just parries?
@foggy wagon ... is that a challenge?
half crater
ngl i’m tempted to try
gleaming current
Sounds like one
Especially since most deflect boons are accompanied with damage
willow fossil
Throw the skulls back at daddy
foggy wagon
I wish there were end-game items you could equip to get nothing but boons from one god per region
gleaming current
Divine dash deals damage, hehehe
foggy wagon
That would be so much fun
cunning urchin
Does it count if I did 20 Heat with only Divine Strike and nothing else?
foggy wagon
LOL that's pretty close
cunning urchin
Because I did that.
half crater
yeah the hard part would be not accidentally hitting things with Divine Dash
foggy wagon
I mean you literally can't avoid the damage from divine boons for countering melee so
hearty elbow
There's a decent number of situations where I will use 2 dashes to dodge some attack from Dad, use the 3rd dash to get way from the spear, and find myself in the crosshairs of a Sneak or with an approaching ring. More forethought could have prevented getting hit, but an extra dash would have also done it.
wet rivet
people talkin smack about my baeblade mittens?!
foggy wagon
If you weren't allowed to direct damage from, say, divine strike, you just wouldn't be able to finish the game
willow fossil
The only time where I need more than 1 dash to dodge dad, is if I have reduced range from triple jab or whatever that spear hammer is
foggy wagon
tbh dad is the only time I really need to spam dashes
gleaming current
Time to find a move that doesn't deal damage with certain circumstances at all
foggy wagon
but also like, I feel like the more I play the game the more I feel like the entirety of the game is just pregaming Dad
hearty elbow
Just use the iframes
@willow fossil I 5head whenever someone tells me to "just" do this lmao
half crater
exactly, it’s about the i-frames
willow fossil
Well it is the truth
foggy wagon
this game has iframes
half crater
more i-frames = more win
foggy wagon
?
willow fossil
Yes
wet rivet
that's just cause hades sweep has a different tempo from being telegraphed to when he does it compared to most other enemies
willow fossil
I feel like the iframes from q dash is more than enough
spare scaffold
I can semi-reliably i-frame dad dashes
gleaming current
Change the class from "zagreus" to "iframe". Win game with ease
wet rivet
it's purely speculation btw
spare scaffold
Sometimes I forgot and just eat the swings 
foggy wagon
i always forget and just eat the swings 🤷
willow fossil
Acorn to the rescue
foggy wagon
It's why I love shield so much
half crater
the swings by themselves are easy to i-frame
willow fossil
^
half crater
it’s when other stuff is going on it becomes hard
spare scaffold
his triple combo is a little harder to manage
half crater
cough EM4 cough
spare scaffold
And I'm only at EM1 
willow fossil
his triple combo is a little harder to manage
Literally just dash into him and just run away
spare scaffold
I think you can iframe his bloodskull + lunge combos as well
spare scaffold
..huh
willow fossil
Don't dash the same direction he is triple slashing
Cause then yeah, yiure going to eat the 3 of them
spare scaffold
I usually try to dodge away from him not dodge into him
I should try that
same deal with Asterius
willow fossil
Dodging into asterius isnt as ez as it is with hades
hearty elbow
I iframe nearly every one of Dad's spins without issue. I still want the buffer to be able to increase my effective iframe range in the MANY situations I will screw up though.
There's this weird conception that a pinnacle of "perfect play" where you don't need stuff exists, but it's a farce. It's always good to have something in reserve.
willow fossil
Also em3
half crater
yeh
spare scaffold
I'm only at heat 8 so far and it's the +stat conditions
willow fossil
Theres no perfect play, thats why I said I hate it, not that is bad
spare scaffold
is there a codex entry for what perks armoured foes have
willow fossil
I'm only at heat 8 so far and it's the +stat conditions
Try em4 once
spare scaffold
please no
willow fossil
There is a prophecy for it
willow fossil
Em4 is fun correct
half crater
you’ll prolly die, but yolo
spare scaffold
maybe EM4 on its own
half crater
yeah exactly
hearty elbow
It's worth dying for the rush of the 3rd phase
willow fossil
^
half crater
no sense making it harder for yourself than necessary like i did
spare scaffold
I only clocked in like slightly under 20 wins so far, maybe at some point
half crater
my first time i reached the end of phase 2 on literally 1 hp and no DDs
willow fossil
foggy wagon
I still gotta try EM4
willow fossil
Lmfao that was my exact reaction
They got me a with a phase 2 when I first started, of course now they are adding a phase 3
spare scaffold
When I start getting comfortable with dad-bashing I'll try EM4
hearty elbow
I knew there was going to be a phase 3 from minor spoilers, but yeah, same here, no health into p3, no God Gauge, the music starts and I'm just like... okay, well I'm boned (i was right)
willow fossil
For sure hax
spare scaffold
right now it's still a bit tough especially on a scuffed build
willow fossil
It takes time
cunning urchin
9 boons from Lady Aphrodite including her Legendary and a Duo Boon, and the game gives me "Favored & Envied" instead of "Disciple of Aphrodite". 0/10, game sucks. I want my money back.
willow fossil
I say I only need 1 dash because I already died to him plenty, so I kinda know the time of all his attacks
spare scaffold
I used to take +dash pre-1.0
nowadays I just don't
feels weird having more dashes
spare scaffold
I actually don't run RR that much mainly because of lava
willow fossil
?
half crater
you don’t need dodge +% if you’re not there to get hit
half crater
fair lol
cunning urchin
Would be nice if Ruthless Reflex could actually out-DPS Greater Reflex.
marsh pumice
I cant stand RR
half crater
same
willow fossil
The time where I'd want greater reflex is when I know im going to have art dash, other than, ill get rr
hearty elbow
Maybe it's because I play a lot of bow, but I can't really imagine not having more dashes considering I need to spend one to attack
willow fossil
By the time you're done with your power shot you can dash again
hearty elbow
(to be fair I would have said the same thing about Excalibur since you need to dash carry attacks so often but I will invoke a seminar and TED talk from Oversky if I would deign to say such things now)
You need the spare dash to bail when it's a bad idea
willow fossil
Understandable
hearty elbow
Which is more common on Rama than Zag aspect tbf
cunning urchin
By the time you're done with your power shot you can dash again
You'll more often see two dashes into Dash-Strike than one—simply for positioning.
spare scaffold
speaking of which how do you guys dash strike with bow on KB/M
cunning urchin
One dash means it takes longer to get to wherever enemies are.
whole axle
How does Pierced Butterly gain bonus damage when going through Temple of Styx? Do I gain bonus dmg from each mini floor, or do I have to complete the entire pathway to get bonus?
spare scaffold
Press LMB and space at the same time and hold?
cunning urchin
Ruthless Reflex on Excalibur is pretty great, you get so much eHP from that 50% inside your Aura that you can just stay inside and keep swinging.
fair plinth
question about fishing - so I hear that chaos fish spawns are super rare because it needs to meet the criteria for a fishing spawn to occur (i.e. 10 encounters after previous spawn), AND you need to enter a chaos gate
if i see a fihsing spawn and I don't fish it
willow fossil
How does Pierced Butterly gain bonus damage when going through Temple of Styx? Do I gain bonus dmg from each mini floor, or do I have to complete the entire pathway to get bonus?
Only the last chamber of the tunnel
fair plinth
does the spawn count as "taken"
gleaming current
speaking of which how do you guys dash strike with bow on KB/M
You have to hold the attack to start charging it, yeah
fair plinth
i.e. if I don't take a fishing point in a normal encounter, does it remain "unused" to increase the odds of spawning in a chaos gate?
willow fossil
More than X chambers (non-inclusive) since the last time a fishing spot spawned (see the table below).
According to wiki, yes
gleaming current
Bow dash strike is different from others that go off instantly, it's rather a sped up weaker attack
fair plinth
"the last time a fishing spot spawned"
willow fossil
Yep
willow fossil
Yes it says spawns not caught
fair plinth
ah damn
willow fossil
Thats what I get from the wording at least
plain mantle
anyone else think delta chamber for eris aspect is the best hammer
hearty elbow
I play almost exclusively bow, and i have no idea how much damage non-dash strike power shots even do
plain mantle
they do like 15-20 more damage
willow fossil
@whole axle only the last chamber of the tunnel counts
plain mantle
but takes like 0.5 seconds more to charge to a powershot
half crater
it’s like, 70 for non dash 50 for dash right
spare scaffold
I love Delta Chamber as well
fair plinth
for chiron, if you get zeus special, does it bolt on every special arrow?
fair plinth
hmm
spare scaffold
Also kind of makes default aspect moot when the only thing it has going for it is higher ammo cap
half crater
zeus lightning has a 0.3 second (?) ICD
hearty elbow
anyone else think delta chamber for eris aspect is the best hammer
@plain mantle Eris really needs help on single target, and the special hammer family (rocket, triple, cluster) help that significantly more than Delta Chamber would
cunning urchin
Lol it's not definitely not half a second more.
plain mantle
ah yea def less than that
cunning urchin
Eris needs help? Wut?
plain mantle
@plain mantle Eris really needs help on single target, and the special hammer family (rocket, triple, cluster) help that significantly more than Delta Chamber would
@hearty elbow hmm i dont know i can kill hades with 2 acorn left
under 1 minute lol
proven osprey
poor Eris
hearty elbow
(that's the joke, it doesn't. there are 3 hammers that fix it immediately)
plain mantle
its so safe with delta chambebr
willow fossil
Eris needs help 
fair plinth
for chiron hammer, would you pick special pierce and +400% damage to armor, or +4 special arrows?
spare scaffold
wait how does Rocket even work with Eris
hearty elbow
you shoot the rocket...
spare scaffold
point blank shot at a nearby wall?
half crater
relentless volley 10000%
hearty elbow
and it damages them :3
plain mantle
you have to be close to the target
willow fossil
If anything eris is getting nerfed
plain mantle
and absorb the blast
willow fossil
point blank shot at a nearby wall?
Or an enemy
spare scaffold
I mean in regards to the self buff after special
plain mantle
or shoot it at a wall
spare scaffold
ah yes knife range fighting with a gun
hearty elbow
No, I think Rocket might be it's best hammer lol. It's kind of close
plain mantle
its a nightmare with controller lol
hearty elbow
If you're not next to anything just aim at a wall
willow fossil
Rocket makes it faster so yeah is really good
hearty elbow
Otherwise the explosion radius is quite wide, just dash into the range and dash away
gleaming current
Knife range? Gotta be a decent sword range at very least
(and swords in this game are long)
plain mantle
ok delta chamber and explosive fire is super fun though
gleaming current
Extending jab spear > Bow
half crater
i understand why they did it in hades from a balance perspective, but wth is with video games giving bows super short maximum ranges lol
like, bows can shoot ridiculous distances accurately irl
fierce thicket
Hanzo also has shortish range
willow fossil
fair plinth
wooo 4% attack damage buff from bouldy ❤️
gleaming current
Well, in case of hades longer range won't even help that much because 90% of the time monitor view is the limit
fair plinth
bouldy is love, bouldy is life
half crater
yeah, sure, but in general
hearty elbow
I'm sad I haven't been able to give Bouldy treats until I get 100 nectar for the theme lol
gleaming current
In general, who knows
Maybe it's just seen as archaic gun subtype
So it must be worse in everything even if it isnt
willow fossil
Shame on you ledger, bouldy > some theme
gleaming current
Crossbows are slightly less archaic guns, yeah
half crater
tho i’m pretty sure that’s half life’s fault specifically
gleaming current
fierce thicket
Just strap a sniper scope on it
fair plinth
I'm sad I haven't been able to give Bouldy treats until I get 100 nectar for the theme lol
@hearty elbow
w- what theme?
cunning urchin
@fair plinth depends. If you're doing Low Tolerance on Chiron, you can ignore Special hammers and focus on Atrack.
hearty elbow
Artemis' theme, Woodland I think?
willow fossil
There is a theme for 100 nectar yes
willow fossil
I used to run it until I unlocked the keys one
hearty elbow
I had around 20 before I started grinding for it lol, since my habit was to convert Nectar 10-1 into Ambrosia whenever the Broker offered it.
willow fossil
Theme only affect the boon menu and victory screen
You cant really see it on your actual gameplay other than the ability slots
hearty elbow
The 25k theme does do some really snazzy highlights on your boon bar though. And the victory screen is soooo good.
willow fossil
Yeah im working towards it
half crater
i can’t believe i bought the 5k gem theme in order to flaunt my wealth, and then they made a 25k darkness one
hearty elbow
Me too. I accidentally poured all of my Darkness into badges
So I had to start from scratch
fair plinth
hmm, so which god's boon is best for chiron special? aphro wins for damage but I'm leaning towards demeter for instant 10stack chill
hearty elbow
I end up liking Deadly more with Heartbreak Strike for Heart Rend.
Also has nifty interactions with Hunter's Instinct and Hunter's Mark.
plain mantle
does using your call give you some i-frames?
gleaming current
I usually lean to Deadly, Drunken, and sometimes Demeter
plain mantle
i think it does
fair plinth
i've only got aphro/dio right now and I'm in the lobby before asphodel
fair plinth
fair enough
half crater
i wouldn’t push heat with it
plain mantle
if you get artic blast on chiron its pretty fun
hearty elbow
But I have been experimenting with builds for Hangover Chiron per @cunning urchin's discovery of the damage differential with multiple targets, and I've died a couple of times yesterday at phase 3 EM4 at 49 and 47 heat, but getting there was no problem at all.
half crater
yeah that’s what i did
my experience was a solid “not bad” but chiron can be better than not bad lol
gleaming current
Sea Storm Tempest Flourish
half crater
i haven’t tried that yet
gleaming current
Would be really solid if not for a part where you need a duo
fair plinth
I mean I have relentless volley so each special is firing 12 shots
with demeter flourish and arctic blasts
it instantly triggers blast + 2 stacks remaining
which cooks up to a lotta damage
hearty elbow
I for some reason am never offered Arctic Blast... ever.
fair plinth
90+ bonus special damage and a 150 damage trigger
hearty elbow
I don't even see it when I don't want to, which is surprising
half crater
yeah lol it took me like a dozen runs to actually get that build going to test it
why is arctic blast so rare lol
hearty elbow
Does it have a weird prereq or something?
fair plinth
speaking of artemis on chiron
gleaming current
I only see it when I take mistral dash out of pity
fair plinth
how does support fire interact with the special?
1 arrow per arrow or 1 arrow per special
half crater
yup
hearty elbow
Same as Thunder Flourish
gleaming current
0.2s cooldown, so 1-2 arrows per special
fair plinth
damn
half crater
the latter, yeah
hearty elbow
You can do some trick shots like aim behind you after placing the mark to make the arrows stagger timing more, make it 2-3 arrows :3
(not worth it)
willow fossil
Me too. I accidentally poured all of my Darkness into badges
X2
spare scaffold
Which one do you guys prefer, Fated Authority or Fated Persuasion
hearty elbow
Persuasion by a very large margin
spare scaffold
FA seems to be more useful for me thus far though I guess FP is great if you don't need a force a build
marsh pumice
Authority
spare scaffold
You can reroll for Duos/Legendaries right?
hearty elbow
I find FP better when you do need to force a build too
Also lets you reroll Chaos, Poms, Wells, and Purging pools
spare scaffold
Well FA to force gods, FP to force specific boons I guess
willow fossil
I cant use persuasion cause of approval process but I believe is better yes
hearty elbow
What does AP have to do with it?
spare scaffold
removes talents
willow fossil
You only have 1 choice, so not really worth rolling
spare scaffold
starting from the buttom iirc
willow fossil
Youre better off rolling for gods and stuff
hearty elbow
Persuasion is pretty much absolutely necesasry in that situation to make sure you don't get replacement screwed, or if you have UC as well, unsellable boon screwed
spare scaffold
My usage for FA thus far usually involves rerolling Styx chambers
willow fossil
What i do since I can't get the build I want, is roll for as many boons as possible, so I at least have a strong base
cunning urchin
@gleaming current Sea Storm Tempest Flourish is not that great DPS-wise.
spare scaffold
Sometimes lower biomes but mainly Styx
willow fossil
So i roll poms, hearts, and obols for boons
So even if they aren't good, I have a lot
I feel like I get more value that way than fp
You might still get screwed by fp with ap
spare scaffold
I'm probably saving AP for much higher heat than the level I can run on now
Heat 8 atm
willow fossil
I run ap for fun, even if it didn't cost any heat. I'd still have it on
willow fossil
Yes
hearty elbow
Maybe it's because from my perspective, I will never take the second rank of AP before the first rank of RI...
willow fossil
So you can mark people faster
fair plinth
leaning towards perfect but a faster target sounds nice too
gleaming current
Sea Storm Tempest Flourish is not that great DPS-wise.
Well, surprise me with a bunch of other picks that aren't Deadly Heart Rend, then
fair plinth
suggestions?
willow fossil
Isnt worth imo, but as a worst case scenario
Is still good
Yeah ledger I agree. But i just can't play without ap, I feel like it gives more of a roguelike experience
I'm into rng
I dont use gods keepsakes or anything
spare scaffold
I stopped using gods keepsakes after I unlocked Pom Blossom
3*'d in record time
it's just way too good
willow fossil
Gods keepsake is good if you're going for a specific build
But having played a lot of roguelikes and being my fav genre, I feel like there's no fun in that
Rng makes the genre
I am glad the game gives you freedom for the ones that aren't really into it
gleaming current
Le shrug, I find that there is enough rng even with forced boon spawns
spare scaffold
Sounds like AP really makes you feel right at home then
willow fossil
I love having no freedom at all. Maximum rng
spare scaffold
I can't stomach traditional roguelikes, I get the appeal but I lack the attention span for them
hearty elbow
@willow fossil That may be the most compelling argument for AP I've heard yet. I still think it should be a mode instead of a pact, but yeah. Good for you.
willow fossil
Sounds like AP really makes you feel right at home then
That is correct, like I said, even if it didn't cost any heat I'd still use it
I cant play without it
I did it recently to get the 0 heat bounties, and I felt wrong
spare scaffold
oh yeah what sort of setup do you guys do for darkness farming
Dark Thirst + heat 0 to go through it as fast as you can?
hearty elbow
Nothing lol. I just finish the bounty on my favorite weapons, and grind away
barren otter
How likely are you to get a common boon from a room with upgraded rarity? (such as miniboss or Erebus). I thought that it's completely impossible, but recently I've seen Haelian get a common boon as an option from the soul catcher miniboss room and today I got a common Hermes boon as an option from an Erebus gate.
hearty elbow
Naturally killing bosses is pretty fast and a lot more fun than specifically grinding for it for me
And there are no longer monstrocities like pre-1.0 Fated Persuasion/Authority to grind for.
spare scaffold
you are right but it takes a while to gain darkness while doing bounties normally
willow fossil
Chaos, poseidon and sisyphus are your farming buddies
spare scaffold
Oh do I want to put on Poseidon's keepsake at the start for that
untold iris
hearty elbow
you are right but it takes a while to gain darkness while doing bounties normally
@spare scaffold You can start Poseidon with the Darkest Thirst weapon and take every Chaos gate, but this is still predicated on you finishing bounties with a weapon for max farm
willow fossil
And by sisyphus I mean shady
hearty elbow
Take Bouldy
willow fossil
Yeah thats shady
hearty elbow
I haven't tried it in 1.0 but apparently the darkness rewards were buffed
spare scaffold
Can I reset the boons I can get at the start by giving up
hearty elbow
Nope
willow fossil
The seed is pretty much for your starting boon
There is a mod to set the seed
So that can help
willow fossil
Yeah me neither, just felt like I needed to mention just in case
hearty elbow
Don't forget to buy every Light of Ixion and the Infernal Trove thing from Wells
You definitely want Persuasion for this, to reroll Chaos as well
granite goblet
re: huge catch, supposedly just having the conch is sufficient prerequisite for it
persuasion is I think probably the more useful thing
willow fossil
^
re: huge catch, supposedly just having the conch is sufficient prerequisite for it
You need the conch and one of the boons
granite goblet
ah
willow fossil
Sunken treasure and huge catch
spare scaffold
dang I just invested like 1k darkness into a 3rd authority
willow fossil
Well 2 of the 3
spare scaffold