if he kills an exalted then it doesnt drop a ghost
#h1-builds-and-combat
untold iris
primal hazel
But you can so it can give you two kills for one
gleaming current
I suppose a version where it did drop a ghost was too easy since you could just hunt those eggs down and make an easy tie
untold iris
also this might just be placebo but do the furies have very different hp bars?
I swear that alecto dies significantly faster for me than the other two sisters
red harbor
they all die around the same speed for me
can anyone please explain the difference between level and rarity?
gleaming current
Sounds like a placebo yeah
Tisiphone may feel longer because only 2 invincibility gates instead of 3
And unlike Megaera, Alecto has a "free" move where she charges rage
gleaming current
can anyone please explain the difference between level and rarity?
two different ways to increase boon efficiency
Levels are affected by poms, rarity is affected by rarity boosters
untold iris
they both make numbers go up
gleaming current
Worth noting that with or without boon rarity, pom scaling is always same
cunning urchin
Tisiphone > Alecto > Megaera for HP.
primal hazel
red harbor
thank u all
cunning urchin
Extreme Measures gives them more HP.
untold iris
is it usually worth upgrading boons beyond around lv3 or so?
cunning urchin
Usually, yes.
untold iris
I usually heavily deprioritize poms once my important boons are leveled to 3
gleaming current
I prefer to pick whatever gives more potential benefit, even if it's leveling main attack to lvl 6 at times 
Even if leveling special from 2 to 3 gives far better %, if it isn't used much it's not worth the investment
untold iris
oh I mean like if I get a pom I'll usually level my important boon, even if its already high level
its just that I usually will choose to take other stuff over a pom if I can if my important boons are level 3 or high already
like I may take a gold room instead if that's an option
i guess taking gold is a lot worse on high heat when gold costs are higher though
so thats probably a bad example
cunning urchin
Obol chambers are still very valuable at high heat because they can buy you more important stuff.
And poms lose a lot of value with AP because your choices are limited.
cloud jungle
Hey. Anyone want to discuss the mirror choices with me?
untold iris
what about the mirror?
cloud jungle
I use the purple ones but have been trying out the green ones recently. I just want to see what others pick and compare each option.
untold iris
general balance? what you should put darkness into? meme choices?
unkempt pagoda
i usually go dark regen and god's legacy, and i've recently switched to foresight and persuasion
cloud jungle
Like Shadow or Fiery Presence? What do you use and when?
unkempt pagoda
sometimes stygian soul depending on what build i'm about to do
untold iris
shadow is better almost always imo
unkempt pagoda
shadow is better because it activates much much more than fiery will
cloud jungle
Shadow seems far better yeah
cunning urchin
Lately, I pick (usually) Stygian Soul and the last 5 talents are also green. Everything else is purple.
cloud jungle
It's useful against the biggest threat you'll face = bosses
fiery is good for clearing quickly
maybe the infernal gates
untold iris
i like stygian soul a lot but that mirror option is really well balanced
both sides are good
cunning urchin
Shadow Presence is better for clearing quickly on most builds, but it doesn't affect casts unless you get Parting Shot. Fiery Presence works on casts.
unkempt pagoda
yeah, stygian and infernal is up to player preference, rather than an objective "one is better than the other"
cloud jungle
Vitality or Dark Regeneration? I think I prefer Vitality for free Styx healing as Regeneration doesn't work in Styx.
unkempt pagoda
lately i've also been experimenting with abyssal blood, especially on cast builds
cunning urchin
I only use Infernal Soul for lodging cast builds.
untold iris
i used to use dark regeneration but i switched to chthonic vitality and like it better now
unkempt pagoda
dark regen is better imo
cunning urchin
Yeah, Abyssal Blood is an interesting choice sometimes.
untold iris
I think dark regeneration was better for me earlier on
cloud jungle
^
untold iris
but now I take darkness rooms less and I take less damage vs bosses
cloud jungle
dark regen makes early easy and styx harder
untold iris
so the darkness heal + fountain heal overheals me
cloud jungle
I love darkness rooms ๐
cunning urchin
I use Chthonic Vitality if I have healing enabled at all, but I no-hit most chambers, so that's probably not most people's experience lol.
cloud jungle
better than gems and keys
gleaming current
Both forms of healing do ultimately not matter as I run SD and either not die or die
cloud jungle
I'll probably switch to gems later too ๐
cunning urchin
I used to swear by Dark Regeneration when I was still learning basics and going up the bounties for the first time. But Dark Regeneration healed for more back then.
untold iris
what do you think about deep pockets vs golden touch?
proven parcel
deep pockets
cunning urchin
Golden Touch is for farming runs. Deep Pockets for anything else.
proven parcel
unless you're really trying to farm
near zealot
I preferred vitality even when I was learning, just because I hated how chip damage added up
untold iris
right now im finishing bounties, and some weapons im good enough with that I can win without spending gold
so I just take golden touch and buy the big item at the end
gleaming current
Same strat for me rn
cunning urchin
Key chambers are always #1 priority for blue laurel rewards for me because rerolls are better than 20 obols or +5 max HP or whatever Darkness rewards give.
cloud jungle
Deep Pockets is great. I get 100 gold early.
opal lodge
rerolls are huge
cloud jungle
Golden Touch is ehh. I get around 100 gold scattered across 3 rooms.
opal lodge
almost always take it over whatever other meta reward is offered
untold iris
but what is better
+1 reroll in a run you will probably win anyways
or 5 gems so that you can buy that sweet, sweet bed a little faster
therefore gems > all
cloud jungle
Golden Touch with Hypnos keepsake only ๐
weak garnet
Wait is Deep Pockets better?
opal lodge
what if i have all the beds 
weak garnet
By the end of the run I definitely gain more than 100 because of it
gleaming current
Just trade 15 keys into titan blood into 200 gems, bam even faster bed
cloud jungle
I spend a lot
weak garnet
But I do usually have some stuff left over
cloud jungle
and I have enough for what I need
cunning urchin
Well, I either casually speedrun at low heat or do high heat lol.
untold iris
yeah if you are only concerned about power inside of the run then key is best
untold iris
its the best blue room
opal lodge
@cunning urchin im curious when do you usually turn on CF
untold iris
but usually I take gems so that I can buy stuff later
untold iris
key gives reroll
opal lodge
key gives reroll
proven parcel
Key gives reroll
opal lodge
lol
untold iris
reroll is very good
proven parcel
which is big
cunning urchin
Hmmm. 32 I guess.
proven parcel
the coin and hp is barely worth it
gleaming current
nectar gives +1 level on frozen touch
untold iris
rerolling boons is by far the better mirror option
cunning urchin
Maybe less than 32 if I'm testing build consistency or something.
untold iris
runs where you have the correct boon vs runs where you dont is a big difference
opal lodge
oh hes a fated auth user
gleaming current
Uh oh
opal lodge
yeah idk since you start with four in fated persuasion each one feels so much more impactful
also getting from 4->6 is the difference between being able to roll twice two times vs not
untold iris
like you start a rail run with thunder signet
zeus doesn't offer you his attack boon
if you dont have boon reroll then that run is significantly more doomed, despite you being able to reroll doors
opal lodge
^^^
wet rivet
is Shared Suffering a Status Curse?
untold iris
no
opal lodge
no
gleaming current
Honestly fated authority sounds good on paper but then there are far more roll ways and only 1 result at any point
opal lodge
it doesnt count for privileged status if thats what ur asking
gleaming current
Let me see, door has like, 14? different rewards?
untold iris
you should use your key to refund darkness
wet rivet
I only have weakness and somehow procs Privileged Status 
untold iris
and then just put the fated persuasion darkness into fated authority
cloud jungle
it's good when you get to 5
opal lodge
i started with fated authority
cloud jungle
nah nah
opal lodge
nah youll have enough darkness to buy both
cloud jungle
^
opal lodge
do what makes you enjoy the game more
cloud jungle
I used purple only
gleaming current
I don't like when such preference things are advised to be switched
Let people experiment
cloud jungle
now I'm trying greens
opal lodge
i started with fated authority and then felt better playing w persuasion
cloud jungle
a lot of greens suck though
gleaming current
Stubborn defiance is rather game-breaking
It's harsh but it pays off a lot
opal lodge
where the regular encounters are substantially harder
cloud jungle
I can 0-2 DD Hades
cunning urchin
Stubborn Defiance is normally the only way to heal when you're running LC4.
cloud jungle
LC4?
opal lodge
you get to a point where you dont need any DDs for bosses but the mobs hit you for like 30 per hit
untold iris
stubborn defiance is specifically a high heat talent
cunning urchin
Lasting Consequences at rank 4.
cloud jungle
No healing at all?
cunning urchin
Yep.
untold iris
I think its pretty bad for most players but it is very good when you're doing ultra high heat
cloud jungle
Woah
untold iris
if you're not on like 40+ heat just use regular death defiance imo
cloud jungle
I mean, I think that's what green abilities are for
hoary sequoia
Hey quick question. Does cast speed do anything on demeter cast?
opal lodge
yes you put turret down faster
cloud jungle
purple is supposed to be normal
gleaming current
Dunno tbh
I started with SD while trying to beat the game and it felt way more smooth and allowed to learn bosses more quickly
opal lodge
i mean most people like dark foresight and family favorite
but again its personal pref
theres no objective truths in a single player game
cloud jungle
Family Favourite?
cunning urchin
I wouldn't say so. We only had the purple talents at first in Early Access, so they're of course more well-rounded. The green talents are there for variety and preference.
cloud jungle
That doesn't look as good as a 40% damage boost
opal lodge
right but how often are you getting that 40% damage boost
cloud jungle
very often
worthy dust
I build around it for sure
opal lodge
i feel like we had the PS v FF discussion literally yesterday so im not doing it again but yeah whatever works for you
cloud jungle
and when you're not, you're doing some other cool build
untold iris
we had that discussion yesterday
opal lodge
if yoh like it you like it
untold iris
I tried out the other side
unkempt zephyr
then green is for advanced players
@cloud jungle Probably reverse) becaus with DD beat High Heat alote harder.
cunning urchin
Family Favorite is the meta for speedruns and high heat at the moment. Except for some specific builds where you won't need any tier 2 boons to apply two curses.
untold iris
and my conclusion is that FF feels better if you're building around artemis but I think PS is better if you're building around Aphrodite
opal lodge
@untold iris i like that
cloud jungle
like a lot of green stuff. good for encounters but hard for bosses
opal lodge
also if im running PS i try to get two T1 status curses on core boons in Tartarus
cloud jungle
yeah, I had this amazing holy excalibur build
opal lodge
not enough benefit to make up for it otherwise
untold iris
my usual mirror setup has stygian soul, dark foresight, gods legacy, and dark persuasion for greens
untold iris
but I switch deep pockets and privileged status sometimes
opal lodge
@untold iris mine is exactly the same except infernal soul for poseidon sword
cloud jungle
What do you guys think about cursed slash?
untold iris
i dont like it
gleaming current
Dark Regen, Stubborn Defiance, Golden Touch (temporary) and last 4 for my greens
worthy dust
Love cursed slash
proven parcel
I like it
untold iris
it can definitely be useful but I hate that it doesnt proc on dash attack
gleaming current
Cursed slash is fine as long as you don't get it from anvil or AP2
cloud jungle
I had it on excalibur ๐
opal lodge
it does what it says on the tin
untold iris
its probably overall still a fairly good hammer but I just personally dont like using it
cloud jungle
I regretted it but it actually worked really well
opal lodge
it can work on excalibur if youre getting huge cleave but seems like it would suffer against bosses
gleaming current
Excalibur cursed slash is fairly well because you won't be dash striking 24/7 like with other swords
cloud jungle
That's what I thought
gleaming current
And you have bonus hp
cloud jungle
I was like, I don't need dash strike
opal lodge
my problem is the rate of attack
fair plinth
question about zeus Billowing Strength boon
since you get "bonus damage" after using call, does the bonus damage affect the call itself?
is it a straight up damage buff to EVERYTHING, including the call that triggers it?
weak garnet
Good question
cunning urchin
The effect triggers after the Call ends.
cunning urchin
Some builds build god gauge better than others, yeah.
But it's still a lot of damage when you do get it. He also has a boon to speed up building god gauge.
fair plinth
nah im running shield build with a heavy focus on ares
billowing strength is still okay but not as stonks as some other builds (looking at you aphro/zeus duo(
cunning urchin
There's also a keepsake that lets you start any encounter with 25% god gauge.
opal lodge
wait so
unkempt zephyr
and athena can give start any encounter boon with 30%
cunning urchin
Yes.
opal lodge
nuts
also the billowing strength pom scaling seems huge to me
its like 14% for first two poms
cunning urchin
Another reason Smoldering Air is S tier. ๐ ๐ฉ๏ธ
unkempt zephyr
nothing nuts.game have attack builds,special builds,dash builds,cast builds and Aid builds too
cunning urchin
And Eris. 
unkempt zephyr
don't make me swear 
plain mantle
I'm trying to go for a call build, but I keep missing smoldering ใ ใ
opal lodge
smoldering air + hades keepsake is almost just a flat +100%
its loads of fun but a lot of effort
unkempt zephyr
Hermes give dodje and speed after call,zues can give damage after call and boost God Gauge charges faster,artemis can boots God Gauge charges faster after crits.
fair plinth
god
unkempt zephyr
athena give start God Gauge anmount
fair plinth
ares build with shield is pretty garbo against EM3 fight
opal lodge
dont forget poseidon
fair plinth
took me 6 goddamn minutes to clear it
opal lodge
i like to ride around the arena with theseus on shield haha
unkempt zephyr
you dont wana take damage 
i dont count poseidon
opal lodge
fair fair
worn crypt
Has anyone else noticed that occasionally you'll get two hestia shots after reloading? Usually tends to happen to me right after dashing if I hold down the fire button. Is there a way to make that consistently happen?
plain mantle
Hmm doesn't happen for me
worn crypt
It is rare, but I notice it once or twice a run
untold iris
isnt billowing strength's damage boost super long?
it lasts like 10ish seconds right?
plain mantle
15 seconds
untold iris
so you can just spam the god gauge every time you get to 25% and enjoy a free damage buff that is nearly permanent in boss fights
opal lodge
yep
if you build god gauge extra fast you can use hades keepsake to the same effect but +100%
and it stacks with billowing strength
worn crypt
Yeah I definitely need to be recording this, just got two 573 backstabs with hestia. Double shot is occurring sometimes
fair plinth
lul
chamber 6 loyalty card at the price of 2 death defiances
here's praying for patty to save my run
ornate prawn
so i've been incrementing the heat slowly as i get more bounties with more weapons
currently tend to do EM2 BP1
wondering when i should think about adding EM3
opal lodge
i dont like it until 20s i feel like theres easier pacts
but thats just me
TD is free heat if youre already going fast
ornate prawn
honestly i could probably throw TD1 onto any of my runs
opal lodge
yeah
ornate prawn
but it just psyches me out
opal lodge
turn on the timer in settings
and youll get a gauge for whether or not your normal runs could make td
ornate prawn
the tough part with Tight Deadline tends to be Tartarus, right?
opal lodge
i realized most of my tartarus runs without HL/CP/LC were sub 5 minutes anyway so i just went up to TD3
for me its elysium unless i get armor break
tartarus isnt usually an issue imo
TD only gets hairy for me when I add other pacts on top of it
jolly escarp
does concentrated knuckle count dash strikes? and what counts toward resetting the bonus?
fair plinth
no
nothing does besides the 5 hit combo
YES
PATTY
got the dream max value 3 DD restoration
opal lodge
we need a patty emote
fair plinth
gambled pretty hard too, ignored a DD resto from athena during early elysium
drifting vale
Is it possible to get more than one loyalty card in a single run
gray shore
i'm gonna guess no
fair plinth
Things that hurts my soul:
When you've already opened the door to the next room, and spot an unsmashed gold jar in the corner...
fair plinth
pride
limber flax
alright
mossy light
@fair plinth how do you get it?
fair plinth
get what?
mossy light
abyssal blood, stygian soul, and high confidence, do people ever use them?
brittle vault
so is hestia one of those aspects you're not supposed to play until you've maxed it out?
fair plinth
patricklaus
mossy light
@brittle vault yep, along with chiron
brittle vault
roger that, sir
limber flax
what cast do you like to use with archilles?
opal lodge
@mossy light some people who are smarter than me use abyssal blood for the slowdown effect on bosses
hearty elbow
I really enjoy Stygian Soul + Crystal Clarity + Glacial Glare
opal lodge
and i like stygian for achilles
opal lodge
i like poseidon because it requires few boons to get mirage shot + fully loaded
fair enough
hearty elbow
Glacial Glare is one of very few reasons I will ever take Stygian Soul
Since your DPS goes up with time, instead of bloodstones with it
worn crypt
Rift blade is fun if you can get the duo with artemis. Aphrodite's feels like a shotgun
opal lodge
i was lucky enough to be walking into hades with 5 stones and stygian soul
never ran out of casts
worn crypt
I mean you can take it if you want. Spear is kinda fast
hearty elbow
Look to sell Drunken Strike maybe?
worn crypt
Ya you can sell it later, or taking it gives the possibility that someone offers you a heroic in exchange for it later
hearty elbow
Also since you're Achilles, you don't get proportionally as much benefit from +% attack damage as other aspects would get
Since you get 150% for free
Deadly Strike is very nice though.
limber flax
does athena cast stick to enemies?
hearty elbow
yeah
hearty elbow
You do not want them to lodge
That's part of why Zeus is so good on Achilles
If they lodge you can no longer cast lol
limber flax
yes but i have infernal
hearty elbow
You mean Stygian?
hearty elbow
Right, so with limited casts, if you cast 3 times into an enemy, you have now lost your DPS
limber flax
i played with stygian before
and hated it
seems like you need to get lucky to get 2 casts
hearty elbow
(you do)
I like Infernal, but with casts that aren't likely or can't lodge. Zeus is pretty likely to just shoot off somewhere for instance.
Stygian + Demeter cast + Glacial Glare also gets around the limitation really well since your casts last wayyy longer than 3 seconds.
Unfortunately you really need Crystal Clarity to make that build not a meme
I feel like I'm going to summon Haelian to this chat if I keep mentioning Crystal Beam.
opal lodge
i had one run with that setup and like 1 or two extra stones
10 beams on hades
hades is a tower defense game
fair plinth
what's a good build to combo with shotgun rail? I have the option of choosing rare artemis attack or epic artemis special, kinda torn
hearty elbow
Artemis and Aphro attacks are nice. You can go the other one on your special to go for Heart Rend
opal lodge
rare artemis attack would be my pick
hearty elbow
Eh seems like a waste, you could just do it on Eris and it's about as fast but a lot more damage
opal lodge
not even close imo
hearty elbow
I know
fair plinth
aight so artemis attack it is
cunning urchin
and it's
about as fastfaster
hearty elbow
I was responding to the dio attack comment
Is it? I haven't used Spread Fire I didn't think it had that much of a delay lol
cunning urchin
I don't know what the context is, but everything is faster on Eris. 
fair plinth
good god artemis attack with shotgun got me a sub 20second clear on EM1 sisters
cunning urchin
I got sub 10 yesterday with Eris by holding down Attack and mashing Dash.
I feel very accomplished.
hearty elbow
TFW You have 30 seconds, pretty sure you can kill any of the sisters, but Meg just wants to make circles
opal lodge
@cunning urchin splash dash?
cunning urchin
Yes.
opal lodge
lets go
opal lodge
its the way and the truth i guess
yeah feels kind of solved atm
wonder if anyone will find something novel for eris speedrun builds
hearty elbow
"Novel for Eris" It's only existed in the public eye for a month lmao
hearty elbow
And global damage is very good, there are a lot of very odd but effective setups with it.
deep needle
should i grab swift strike or greater invasion?
its epic greater invasion
soo 20% to dodge
but swift is just 10% ASI
i already have athenas dash tho
opal lodge
dodge is kind of weird to me so i never pick it but thats just me
deep needle
yeah true
cunning urchin
+75% global damage would make more sense if it didn't build god gauge faster than Smoldering Air by just holding down Attack and mashing Dash lol.
Oh yeah, I was also mashing the Call button.
Because it was up every 2โ3 seconds.
hearty elbow
dodge is kind of weird to me so i never pick it but thats just me
@opal lodge Dodge is great, not very reliable but has great expected value
opal lodge
yeah i can imagine its nice to have i can just never justify taking it over like the sturdy one or reflex one
brisk trench
I have a gameplay question
I know the game is 4 gods help you out a run but what happens if I buy the 4th god from charon then go to a 5th god encounter? Will all 5 show up from then on or only the first 4?
fair plinth
is piercing fire worth taking when you have shotgun hammer already?
fair plinth
how so
brisk trench
I rolled them both at the anvil
The hades fight went from pretty possible to nightmarish
gleaming current
Probably just the spread fire then
hoary slate
I rolled them both at the anvil
@brisk trench isn't that because of shotgun and unfitting boons then?
gleaming current
It's quite special hammer that takes lots of mechanical skill
worn crypt
Pretty sure that spread already "pierces" by itself, no need to get piercing on top of that
gleaming current
Yeah it does
worn crypt
It's my favorite hammer. I would never stop playing a rail that starts in shotgun mode
opal lodge
having 6 ammo is suffering for me
worn crypt
That's what zag rail is for :D
opal lodge
true true
worn crypt
If I start a rail run and get a hammer with spread in the first room, I will give up and switch to zag. I can't resist
opal lodge
oh respect
steady cipher
Is EM4 insanely difficult or no
unkempt zephyr
@steady cipher just try
steady cipher
okay lol
opal lodge
^^
gleaming current
Until everyone gets used to it, it's quite harsh
lament perch
Very nearly beat FB on a crystal beam run. Artemis duo really helps!
limber flax
how does room rerolling work
opal lodge
you get used to it just to have to get used to it again on FO2
lament perch
I did not, however, get the last demeter boon I needed for a prophecy that was the reason I was doing a crystal beam run
limber flax
can i reroll key rooms into boon rooms?
opal lodge
no
opal lodge
meta rewards are different from others
steady cipher
Well at least now I can get into Asphodel erebus
opal lodge
so key gem darkness and nectar will always roll into each other
and hammer/pom/gold/boon roll into each other
the pools are separate
steady cipher
Blue leaves and yellow leaves will stay the same
jagged roost
any guides on fast farming? i wanna max out all my darkness stuff
I have been spamming posideon and going for % more gold and darkness / gems from chaos
steady cipher
I guess just don't play with higher and higher ||Heat||
That'll earn u darkness rather than gems and titan blood if u want
opal lodge
if youre a giga speedrun type you could run fo2 and em2 to make your runs a bit faster than usual
steady cipher
wouldn't recommend but I mean if u want to grind for it
opal lodge
chaos offers +darkness and gems boons
worn crypt
Buy all the infernal trove items from well of darkness also
gleaming current
You do have to take some heat later in bounty runs so fo2 em2 make for decent candidates
jagged roost
Buy all the infernal trove items from well of darkness also
@worn crypt true never thought of that
opal lodge
also fish items
jagged roost
that too
opal lodge
you could also run the one mirror upgrade that gives you percentage gold and save gold to get the big reward at styx
gleaming current
Yep
extra spicy strat of pestering poseidon for his legendary with a keepsake
or at least for his dash because it makes half the locations go zoom
opal lodge
im surprised theres no boon or item in the game that makes enemies more likely to drop obols on death
jagged roost
oh yeah that should be a thing
nontheless the game is a favorite of mine
hands down best game I played this year
gleaming current
Recently tried Chaos Shield with Drunken Strike and Frost Flourish
Shotgunning enemies is hard, but is it oh so worth it
steady cipher
Dude I had a similar combo
solid cairn
Most specials work on chaos
gleaming current
And full chill in 2 shots so they can't escape
solid cairn
Itโs like Chiron
solid cairn
Chaos is still top tier post nerf
opal lodge
chaos privileged status with 2 t1 statuses is the way
solid cairn
I almost always take family favorite no matter the weapon
opal lodge
its just so easy to get two statuses with chaos imo
solid cairn
If I have to go out of my way to get PS itโs not worth it for a bit of extra damage which is additive
opal lodge
most other weapons its not as easy for m
thats fair yeah i run FF on most everything else
only crits are multiplicative either way right
solid cairn
When it used to be 50% damage bonus it was more worth it
gleaming current
Well, there is also heart rend
opal lodge
ah
gleaming current
And some hammers specify base damage which ends up being multiplicative increase
Other than that, there doesn't seem to be any multipliers
solid cairn
Beowulf is a very strange weapon
unkempt zephyr
Beo just Bull rush oriented weapons,same like chiron special,or Hades Spin
worn crypt
I can't figure out chaos shield. Just seems like dps is bad no matter what.
Maybe it's just not for me
hazy slate
i think its only really good if you fully upgrade it
worn crypt
I have it fully upgraded and still don't like it >:(
short ravine
The special is pretty broken with god effects
steady cipher
Alright lesson learned, never taking the anvil again
short ravine
First time I managed to get to hades was Ares Doom effect on shield and it's just press Q to win
Alright lesson learned, never taking the anvil again
What happened brother
worn crypt
But I can do that with regular shield and not have to bull rush beforehand
steady cipher
I'm playing with aspect of arthur
and it gave me shadow slash
I mean cursed slash
worn crypt
O
opal lodge
if you dont care about savescumming im p sure you can quit out if the anvil gives you bad rolls
short ravine
I remember having a gun run ruined because the daedalus buff that increases attack speed and ammo cap. which I based my build around got replaced with the shotgunn buff
ooh, didn't even think about that
opal lodge
i personally dont do it but its there
you can also do it for those painful moments when you see an urn or fish while leaving a room
as long as you do it before the door closes
short ravine
Eh I might consider it if I'm one titan blood of an upgrade or something
Oh, so I'm not the only blind one then, thank gods
cunning urchin
If you have a good build and take the Anvil, that's your own fault.
Anvil is actually really good if you didn't get the hammers you wanted.
Like if I'm doing a run with Guan Yu and I didn't get Serrated Point, Charged Skewer, or even Breaching Skewer.
Good chance I'll get one of them if I take the Anvil.
Nemesis without Double Edge is also like that. Since most of the other hammers don't do anything.
cunning urchin
lol
But Cursed Slash isn't so bad, though, if you're not doing high heat. Then it just turns HL5 into HL9.5.
worn crypt
I love flurry slash so much
solid cairn
if only I had any incentive to use attack
I used to think world splitter was the best thing ever
short ravine
Hades? more like
Qdes
solid cairn
if world splitter hitbox wasn't so narrow it would be more useful
cunning urchin
I do Guan Yu High Confidence at 32 lol. So Cursed Slash doesn't bother me much.
At least the lifesteal on Cursed Slash is actually usable.
cunning urchin
I'm aware.
solid cairn
so it really is not usable
cunning urchin
It is, though? You can choose to quickly heal up if you want to.
Way easier than Guan Yu spins.
solid cairn
stiill not worth the health down imo
cunning urchin
I'm not saying it is lol.
brisk trench
What happens when I get a 5th god on a run? I have the opportunity to buy pos as 4th and earn zeus as 5th. Do I just get the one zeus boon if I buy pos or will all 5 be in the pool?
solid cairn
only the first 4 are in the pool I think
cunning urchin
It works really well for newer players, though. Gives them a lot more eHP over a run.
brisk trench
Thanks, gonna skip on the pos boon then, 'preciate it
cunning urchin
All 5 should be in the pool, I'm pretty sure. It's very very rare that you naturally can pick up 5.
solid cairn
Oh
cunning urchin
Only happens at a shop.
solid cairn
I donโt know what Iโm talking about
brisk trench
Im playing with random boon choices anyway and frankly Id rather not have him in the pool at all
cunning urchin
The god pool works in confusing ways lol.
Poseidon has nice passive boons, a great Call, a good Cast, excellent Special, and an excellent Dash.
solid cairn
The second best dash
cunning urchin
First strike. Three strikes, you're out. 
brisk trench
True but also the bad feels of randomly rolling the instant currency and late all epic duo is enough for me to avoid it. Gotta keep those salt levels in tact.
instant currency at a bad time* sometimes the heal is necessary
cunning urchin
Instant currency is cool, though.
Duo Boons are great for selling. That's 400 obols.
brisk trench
Do they have a higher% chance of rolling on sells
glossy saffron
Relatively new to Hades (havenโt beaten it yet) but Iโve been having fun with Hera Aspect bow. So far Artemis homing Cast has been a good combo. Any other cool Cast combos I should try?
brisk trench
Im only really worried about the bad feels from seeing it late
opal lodge
@glossy saffron the poseidon or dionysus casts are both sick on that
one fun one i used to do a lot was dio with both zeus and demeter duo boons
you get freezing lightning fog
opal lodge
yeah
cunning urchin
Yes.
opal lodge
highest base damage cast i think?
cunning urchin
Yes, but it doesn't lodge.
opal lodge
just make sure to run stygian soul so you can fire it more than once every eternity
true
brisk trench
Why lodge when you can lob?
glossy saffron
Yeah Iโve only got one Titan Blood in the Hera Aspect, 10 sec is a long time in this game
gleaming current
First strike. Three strikes, you're out.
gotta add frost and drunken there real quick
glossy saffron
Similar question: just got the Chaos Shield and on first run it didnโt seem that great
Strategies for that one?
brisk trench
Block everything
opal lodge
blocking op
put any effect on your special
ares zeus, etc
thinks go bye very quick
glossy saffron
I assume as I upgrade that aspect more shields tossed will make it more noticeable
glossy saffron
Oh dang it goes to 5?!
brisk trench
doom-a-rang
gleaming current
Yeah, you better upgrade all the way to there before using it tbh
glossy saffron
Gotta score more T-Blood
brisk trench
Level 1 chaos is still better than base shield
gleaming current
I mean, you can use it, but it's definitely not exactly powerful that way
glossy saffron
Hera bow feels like a game changer
Looking into other Aspects as I get more blood
Some seem more powerful than others
cunning urchin
Some are indeed more powerful than others.
Perfect balance has not been achieved.
gleaming current
The balance: turn everything into zag sword
brisk trench
Can the game handle such power?
glossy saffron
I guess I mean some seem to offer a whole new strategy for the weapon which is really engaging. Others just buff one property. Hera bow stands out to me in that way so far
Others you recommend?
brisk trench
Bow 2 is just fun imo
glossy saffron
Charon?
brisk trench
Yeah
opal lodge
eris rail
willow fossil
The balance: turn everything into zag sword
Thats charons oar
unkempt zephyr
all aspects good. just choose what you prefer.
brisk trench
Demeter fists
unkempt zephyr
Zags aspects expeptions)))
cunning urchin
The current balance is Eris in S tier and everything else in F tier for not having a universal +75% damage buff that's practically always active for free.
unkempt zephyr
Zag bow good. but others zag aspects not good
glossy saffron
Thanks for weighing in everyone! Off to score more T-Blood and probly die in the process
opal lodge
applies +75% additive for any damage you do
applies to cast, call, special, attack, revenge dmg
whatever
cunning urchin
They could nerf it to 3 sec, and it wouldn't make a difference lol.
opal lodge
the only meaningful change would be like
base hazard bomb
which even that can be I framed out of
brisk trench
It would be more interesting
cunning urchin
A typical Eris build also builds God Gauge for a Lesser Call in about 2~3 seconds, so you can just mash that Call button.
brisk trench
Which call is preferred?
opal lodge
yo dawg i know you like damage so i got some more damage to go with your damage
cunning urchin
Probably Hades?
opal lodge
i like zeus or dad
short ravine
There's a dad call...
Huh
brisk trench
Yeah you just tell dad his minions are being mean and he fires them all
||you become invis||
opal lodge
op pls nerf
primal hazel
GY with serrated point, aphrodite attack and charm
Nice
Hades doesn't get to finish an attack
mossy light
i like whatever call i get its my least concerned slot. which means its usually artemis. which is fine, it can cut off the last half of theseus easy
mossy light
and maybe or maybe 17-20% of hades
turbid needle
Piercing Wave or Dash Nova for Nemesis sword?
primal hazel
Never dash nova on anything
mossy light
dash nova i guess? who the hell takes piercing
short ravine
The duality of man
mossy light
piercing goes through shields tho
primal hazel
And dash nova is just bad
mossy light
i hate how stygius does that stupid step-stab for a third hit. so i attack attack slam
turbid needle
Eeeeggghhh
opal lodge
for all non arthur stygius you mostly use dash attack anyway
mossy light
dash attacking everywhere is a pain, i have trouble stabbing in the right direction
opal lodge
its possible to do a retreating stab
like you have your mouse aimed one way and dash the other
its kind of nice
short ravine
I wish I had a GIF of one of the numerous times I missed 6 dash stabs in a row
opal lodge
you can like weave in with one dash and retreat with another one
short ravine
retreating dash is pretty sweet, love that intricacy
mossy light
oh good, im not the only one
short ravine
With stygius special, you can start the attack out of range and then dash into range so it's safer
willow fossil
Retreating dash?
mossy light
though im playing with a controller
short ravine
just dash attacking but you attack towards the direction you came from
short ravine
oh yeah, my phrasing's weird
opal lodge
so you most dash attacks you dash one direction
and attack the same direction
but you can also move the opposite direction of your attack so you put out the hitbox then create distance with the dash
west peak
what bild is good with the rama bow
mossy light
zeus special and poms
west peak
will try it out
opal lodge
or dio special art/aphro attack
short ravine
I feel like poms are really underpowered,
ye sometimes I'll see my attack boost go from +70% to +90%
but most of the time it's like +70% to +78% or something like that
opal lodge
wheres that dang pom scaling spreadsheet
diminishing returns
some moves just have bad pom scaling
cough tempest strike
mossy light
poms do a ton for flat numbers like lightning or spells
less for percents
like a pommed up trippy shot or any shot is nuts
short ravine
ok yeah, 150 to 170 is pretty nice
opal lodge
still does a ton for some percentage based ones
like billowing strength
20-28 for common doesnt seem like a lot but it is
short ravine
I see
It still feels like I'd rather have 100 extra gold or +25 hp most of the time if a boon or hammer isn't offered
mossy light
lightning special is different because its flat, and theres the double lightning boon
west peak
wtf is this damage
mossy light
hmm?
proven osprey
be me
fresh little boyo, trying 32 heat for the first time
executed by tight deadline in tartarus
end of the story
short ravine
forced speedrun mode is pretty fun
mossy light
screw 32 heat, go to hell mode
proven osprey
why
mossy light
hell mode is easier than 32 heat
jesus, did they increase the range of lightning rod. this crap hits people across the screen
its amazing
ultimate coward build: smouldering air artemis, lightning rod, and 4 dashes
drop crystals, spam artemis call and dodge
void fjord
Switch the call with aphro for a true coward run
mossy light
how does charm help?
void fjord
Can get hit if the enemies dont want to hit you
Charm essentially makes enemies focus on other enemied
On bosses it most of the time cancels theur attack since charm only lasts for like half a sec
opal lodge
kill them 70 lightningrod damage at a time
void fjord
Smouldering Air Aphrodite call pulled me through EM4
mossy light
true heroes hide in the corner
@opal lodge double lightning boon
wish i had the zeus legendary, kinda
brittle vault
i tried rama with the special but i must have done something wrong because it wasn't exactly spectacular
brittle vault
but i've tried rama with aphro on attack and that was so beautiful i started crying as i nuked hades into shameful oblivion
void fjord
I suggest doing the ultimate melee build with the bow
Rama aspect, explosive shot + twin shot with aphro attack and dio special
mossy light
does anyone stick their face up against the screen while fishing or just me?
raw lake
just you bucko
void fjord
Lol
brittle vault
sorry it's two of us now
i need to be ready for the fourth dip to get that rare fish
opal lodge
i dont hae the reaction times :^)
when you can play on FO2 but still cant make perfect catches
mossy light
Lightning rod is so underrated. That was a hilarious run
do wireless controllers have a slight delay? i wonder if that impacts it
proven osprey
don't think so
mossy light
im looking for exuses for myself
sharp anvil
@opal lodge A trick that helped me (doesn't apply on the first bob): If the bobber doesn't go down in the first ~0.5s, then it won't be the "real" bob, you'll have to let it go down, then wait on the next bob. If it's on the 4th bob, it will always be the real one
It's hard to explain but yeah
proven osprey
except if it's inherent to hades
mossy light
i just stick my face against the TV. seems to work well
opal lodge
@sharp anvil will give that a shot thank you
toxic wolf
Pffffft
I've been playing since early access day 1 and have like 400 hours across epic and steam and had no idea legendary fish were even a thing
left ridge
Ok not offending anyone but what's the damn benefit of using spread shot in Exagryph?
left ridge
Me get hit
left ridge
Is it viable as the other melee weapons? I mean the moment I got by accident totally made me die.
sharp anvil
It's not
amber gyro
First time using posideon sword, what's a good spell to go for?
left ridge
@mossy light spread
@amber gyro anything that sticks to the opponent after using it. My pick would be atermis
mossy light
you want artemis for the exit wounds
but you only need a non ares/demeter/dio spell for it. so grab the first you can find, then go artemis
amber gyro
got artemis ๐
primal hazel
Ayo
What's a decent hestia build?
primal hazel
I guess just regular ol artemis crit?
unkempt pagoda
artemis or aphro, yeah
for hammers, only piercing, explosive, and ricochet interact with the empowered shot (and you're gonna need one of these if you want to be somewhat not atrocious at room clearing)
primal hazel
Thanks
mossy light
isnt the best part of exagryph the nades?
gusty parcel
Not when you use hestia.
Hestia's all about the reloaded attack.
The special's just the icing on top of the cake.
turbid needle
Which aspect is best for the shield? I don't have the hidden aspect btw
unkempt scroll
I don't think there is a "best" aspect, @turbid needle.
nova rivet
chaos is very fun
turbid needle
Frost attack or special for Zeus shield?
tranquil violet
So the specials which provide % boosts to base damage are Artemis (20%), Poseidon (30%), Demeter (40%), and Aphrodite (50%) yes?
mossy light
special
tranquil violet
The others are all debuffs, dot, doom, etc
mossy light
yes
mossy light
check the wiki
tranquil violet
I don't need no gosh darn wiki, now get off my lawn
Also the wiki content is indexed the wrong way around (for comparisons I'd like). There aren't tables of boons grouped by type.
mossy light
look for an excel or make your own
cosmic jacinth
how good is twin flurry shot on zag bow?
opal lodge
does flurry shot work on rama/do you want it on rama?
cosmic jacinth
u cant get it
also if u got pierced butterfly if you take 0 damage from lava with you lose it?
left peak
cosmic jacinth
piercing wave
opaque forum
Hi what boons are good for aspect of hades ?
cosmic jacinth
cause fun
digital mountain
@opaque forum anything works for it really, not specifics, whatever lets you stay close and keep the dmg, the buff lasts 10s which is enough for any non boss tbh
eager grail
is divine dash or strike better as a first boon to pick up generally speaking?
mossy light
derp. tight deadline and the attack absorbtion with the bow = dead zag
and hades laughed at me when i got back
north panther
Does Attack speed up also increase charge speed for the bow's dash attack?
cosmic jacinth
what is dash attack for bow it seems super trashy
mossy light
i dont really know, but i doubt it
apparently dash attack is good with doubleshot? havent tried it myself
north panther
It seems to for the normal attack standing still, but I don't think it's working for dash...which sucks
Dash attack is a (normally) faster charging shot that's weaker
spare flare
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1P6oZ6i8zmY6s7PM_AkX_g6bjZ601iP_xi9CxzEpujJ4/edit?usp=sharing
@tranquil violet
mossy light
hot dog! nerd numbers!
in other words, 1 pom is decent, and 2 is already iffy
i think the spell/shot numbers would be the most valuable though. they scale the hardest
umbral surge
so it's always better to upgrade things that are level 1, than level 5 to 6 for example
stark ore
Just to be safe, if I clear a biome with a used-up acorn does it refresh when I head into the next biome?
unkempt pagoda
yes
each boss has their first 5 hits do no damage, would be pretty useless if it only worked for one boss
stark ore
Ah, alright. Was debating Acorn over Persephone for Elysium so wanted to be clear
mossy light
Acorn is great at high heat or increased enemy damage
spare flare
@umbral surge Not necessarily. Dashes are never worth upgrading, and other boons than these can be leveled. For instance, if you're using Tempest Flourish for lack of an alternative with Stygius, levelling Razor Shoals to 6 makes a bigger difference than Tempest Flourish to 2.
umbral surge
ah okay, wait so Razor Shoals to level is actually better than Tempest Flourish? even though flourish affects special directly
spare flare
Rarity matters, too, of course. If the Tempest Flourish is epic and Razor Shoals is only rare, there's a different cutoff.
Razor Shoals deals 5 damage per tick, but at a rate of 5 ticks/s for 3s, as long as the target is moving.
Assume the target to be in motion for 2.5s. That's 12 ticks, then 0.1s that doesn't do anything. That's 60 damage.
Nova Smash is 50 damage for most aspects. For Arthur, Hallowed Ground and Nova Smash are 70.
60 is about 85.7% of 70.
opal lodge
not to meme but tidal dash can be worth upgrading
spare flare
Look at what it rakes for Tempest Flourish to hit anywhere near that much of a difference.
opal lodge
theres usually better options but it does good damage
spare flare
In ascending rarity, Tempest Flourish needs levels 16, 7, 4, and 3 just to make the difference of a common Razor Shoals.
opaque forum
If I use use ares keepsake at the start and then Athene keepsake does the effect still apply
opaque forum
Exactly
opaque forum
Even the one with the next boom you find is from xxx
opaque forum
So I canโt get a guaranteed Athene boon in asphodel
opal lodge
you can
use the athena keepsake
what im saying is it doesn't work twice
like if you keep it on between regions
opaque forum
Oh I see thank you
spare flare
Upgrading common Razor Shoals gives you 6 damage/tick, so +12 damage at 2.5s of movement, right? That's equivalent to a 17.1% damage increase on Tempest Flourish . . . which happens at levels 1 -> 2 -> 3 at all rarities, and that's it.
Posiedon boons have generally poor scaling, with Razor Shoals being a welcome exception because it's a DOT, so this was an easy example.
north panther
Also pos is bad vs bosses in general cuz they don't get knocked back
Well, his call is very good, but like, as a whole
spare flare
They do, but it's reduced so much that you'll basically never get a wall rush.
north panther
And some enemies like the drakon don't at all, cuz technically rooted in the ground or whatnot
spare flare
Also true.
north panther
That said, he has very good support-based boons
spare flare
If this chart is up to date at all, looks like I rescind the comment about rarity.
opaque forum
Is there a cheat sheet where I can see some builds
sharp anvil
@spare flare I don't think that chart is up to date. I had a level 26 heroic heartbreak flourish yesterday and it was at 442%
spare flare
Oh, and note that I went with the Arthur special example. For the others, since Tempest Flourish upgrades are 18% of base damage at 1 -> 2, Razor Shoals is always the better upgrade, contributing an effective 20% scaling.
Really, 442%?
sharp anvil
Yes, you can search for my posts in #h1-victory-boasting
spare flare
Holy potatoes.
sharp anvil
I could have gotten it to lvl 31 but I messed up 
It was my only boon eligible to be leveled up once I was in Styx, but I didn't take the Pom Blossom
spare flare
Yeah, wow.
Also, this is all without any modifications. With Double Nova, the boost from your flourish boon is applied twice, and you're probably using it as a main attack, much more than once per three seconds, so that completely flips it into the flourish's favor.
sharp anvil
Is that directed at me? Because I was using Guan Yu there
tranquil violet
Don't forget about Sea Storm also @spare flare
Not direct scaling but provides another "free" source of damage to a Poseidon special
still vigil
and wave pounding +40% dmg ๐ฉ ๐๐ฟ
spare flare
No, @sharp anvil, I was referring to the example that I had used above.
And yeah, Mimoc and Gelata, those are also relevant, but they're additive, so not relevant to the specific analysis of "where should my pom levels go."
royal helm
The Zagreus Bow doesn't give 10% crit across the board, right? Only to your attack?
mighty ermine
correct
royal helm
that's depressing
rare kayak
oh heck i forgot about the em4 phase 3
robust anchor
its identical to p2 just dark
gusty parcel
And he has less health.
opal lodge
yo all rama users: is twin shot point blank shot ideal or is there something better
spice vine
Whats the highest DMG % Boon for attack and special
still vigil
aphro
mighty ermine
twin shot and point blank is good. so is twin and perfect, or triple and perfect or point blank @opal lodge
rugged wave
whats a good zeus shield build?
mighty ermine
those four hammers are all good on rama, preferably getting twin or triple early on
still vigil
ironically? zeus on special
still vigil
dun call me out on my malapropism qwq
opal lodge
lol
ty
twin and PB seemed good together so i just sent it
wanted to check either way
rugged wave
for attack should I just run like ares or something?
wanton cargo
Does hermes just not show up for ||arthur aspect?||
wanton cargo
you sure?
rugged wave
yeah rng probably screwed u
opal lodge
its literally impossible to not see hermes
wanton cargo
oh finally
nevermind
i looked at the shop at styx and still didn't see him and came here, but there's a boon in the satyr tunnels
rugged wave
now me getting better than a common for attack speed on arthur on the other hand...
opal lodge
^^ truuuu
still vigil
if you want memes, poseidon on attack
aphro would help with survivability
demeter i feel would work better on special but maybe it wont hurt on attack? @rugged wave
wanton cargo
arthur is like insane so far
it's my first go at it and it's stupid the damage output
opal lodge
i think both are in the parlance
rugged wave
im probably just gonna go for aphro on attack
wanton cargo
dude excalibur with knockbakc is nuts
mighty ermine
one of the only 4th aspects that semi frequently gets called by its actual weapon name and not just aspect of [user]
gilded nymph
I have a question about mirror options for chiron bow
mighty ermine
nobody really says frost fair blade or celestial sharanga lol
gilded nymph
would it be better to go for the one that increases duo chance?
opal lodge
arthur with knockback..?
still vigil
ares is whack
opal lodge
everyone just says GY LOL
rugged wave
I got screwed on rama earlier when those witches showed up in a duo room and I chaos took my special
wanton cargo
poseidon arthur is wicked sick
opal lodge
i dont think ive seen guan yu spelled out more than a hanful of time
gilded nymph
guan yu