for the longest time my fastest run was zag shield. just spam click and dodge and hope it works out.
#h1-builds-and-combat
brittle vault
lime mountain
I wish that I could figure out a build centering around artimes zeus duo boon
Maybe 4th aspect gun
Area damge and crowd control
sour bramble
Shield, Artemis/Zeus cast, Hermes boon that makes your crystals dislodge faster, Artemis boon that deals damage when they come out, rest of the build doesn't matter.
sour bramble
Fire your casts, let the crystals fall out, walk into a corner, hold attack, let the enemy kill themselves on lightning.
lime mountain
That's what I thought but what if heara bow
sour bramble
There's a REALLY good corner in the last boss room that you could probably just fire your crystals to the other side of, sit in there, and wait out the entire boss battle.
lime mountain
I want a lernie pet in Hades and Hera boons
gray shore
add a chamber/ tank for Lernie to chill out after you vanquish him
say hi to him between runs
form a bond
perfect pet
sour bramble
man, you know what I want
still vigil
a buff to piercing wave?
still vigil
thatd be glorious
sour bramble
or some other stuff, I dunno
thorny dirge
bruh aphrodite/ares interactions are already awkward af, you wanna throw haphaestus in there
forest goblet
Is the merciful end duo good?
brittle vault
lol, hephaestus / zeus interactions
hey dad, remember when you literally broke me in half making me permanently disabled
cunning urchin
@forest goblet one of the best boons in the game.
lethal chasm
daedalus KINDA fits
bc Theseus is in the game
so it's in the same line
of legendarium
(was thinking about this other day >_>)
sour bramble
the hephaestus/poseidon interactions would be pretty amusing
lethal chasm
loll
sour bramble
"hey zag, lemme introduce you to a buddy of mine, he stays in my place!"
"Only because Zeus BROKE MY BACK and I couldn't SWIM BACK TO THE SHORE, Poseidon."
"hah, hephaestus, what a joker! anyway, we're gonna help you out okay."
lethal chasm
apollo /hermes reactions
"yo whyd you take my cow so fast man"
(hermes stole apollos cows while he was like 2 hours old in the manger)
lol
lime mountain
How does one fist in Hades
lime mountain
On hellmode first run
sour bramble
okay, so, the way I like to explain fists is like this
lethal chasm
but i find fists is optimal if you cancel out of the downtime
brittle vault
i wish apollo was in the game.
lethal chasm
into a dashstrike
sour bramble
have you ever watched muhammad ali box
calm saddle
get athena dash @lime mountain
lethal chasm
same @ apollo
lime mountain
Ok
calm saddle
ikr
bronze sorrel
So I decided to try an interesting challenge today. No Olympian keepsakes (except Lambent Plume) with a random Weapon and Aspect and Routine Inspection 1 and Approval Process 2. The idea being the game decides what boons and hammers you have on what aspect. I'm now about to fight dad with Hestia aspect and a build where most of my damage comes from Lightning Rod and Cluster Bomb with a zero pom common Deadly Flourish. I had a common deadly strike too but then Athena forced an uncommon Divine strike on me instead....
Do I stand a chance against dad?
brittle vault
apollo in the streets, dionysus in the sheets.
calm saddle
i believe in u fredgerd
bronze sorrel
I do have a 121 damage jolted and a 25% double strike, so I'm hoping maybe I can just dodge around and hope lighting rod kills dad for me XD
lime mountain
"Megara in the streets punishing sweep in the sheets"™ - yours truly
lethal chasm
i want a ending where you wake up from a trip in greece lmao >_>
being that, the whole game is based off the elusinian mysteries
where they would trip balls
to demeter
lime mountain
That would probably be if you had zero darkness upgrades
So you are not connect to underwould
lime mountain
Demeter ?
turbid needle
but she leaves a crystal
lime mountain
Yes
lethal chasm
trippy shot chunks hard
turbid needle
how shes gonna work withj arrow
lime mountain
Hit target drop crystal
lime mountain
Rip
lethal chasm
im on a record breaking run rn
lime mountain
F in chat
lethal chasm
been 3-4 sack CONSISTENTLY for me tho
turbid needle
not only getting satyr sack
sour bramble
Is it me, or does the laser stunlock
sour bramble
It seems REAL good.
lime mountain
I just stack 4 lasers and rack 1000 damage in 5 seconds or less
lethal chasm
oh you mean lucifer >_>
lime mountain
With rare version
turbid needle
i was so angry
i lsot to hades like 7-8 times
today ive kileld him with so cheesy build
lethal chasm
my run from last night is insane aphro arthur, 200% dmg from behind hammer, 97% dmg from behind chaos
lethal chasm
rockets is too good lol
turbid needle
rcoket
lethal chasm
i love split rocket too
turbid needle
i was dealing like 1500dmg point blank
lethal chasm
yup
turbid needle
i was only gonig for boss3 to exchange for titan bblood
brittle vault
how do you even do sub 20 minutes? fastest i ever got was 22 by skipping troves and fishing.
brittle vault
i had a run where with lambent plume and even then it was 23 minutes
lethal chasm
is the only answer
bronze sorrel
Woot, I made it. My strategy of hiding behind rocks and letting Lighting Rod kill dad actually worked XD
lethal chasm
but thats prob not your problem
if you cant get sub 23
23 is like my baseline
_>
bad end of it
as for how i got 17, uhh playing fast
bronze sorrel
If it makes you feel better my time on this silly random boon run was a whopping 37 minutes
lethal chasm
and chirons bow w crit lmao
bronze sorrel
granted I also kept forgetting to use Meg
lethal chasm
watching speedruns obv for keys to take away
brittle vault
back in the day my slowest run was 49 minutes. with exagryph
bronze sorrel
I usually get around 20 min, but I had to play pretty careful to make it through this nonsense challenge run.
lethal chasm
werd i havent messed w more than 8 heat
gonna start doing em4 soon
lol
i somehow have better luck overall w EM3 than normal
theseus kills me less.
lmao
original fight is so slow i kill myself basically
bronze sorrel
I had a total of 14 heat for this, but the heat was BP 2, MM, RI 1, AP 2, with a personal condition of random weapon+aspect and no olympian keepsakes.
lethal chasm
werd i usually start w divine blossom or w.e
bronze sorrel
probably not a terrible challenge for some of the people on this discord but I was pretty challenged
lethal chasm
unless the run is fugazi like zeus starts on arthur
bronze sorrel
divine blossum?
hearty elbow
Pom Blossom
lethal chasm
oops >_>
hearty elbow
Overthinking it lol
bronze sorrel
I was thinking maybe this was some sort of special ||Pom Blossum|| + Athena build I hadn't heard of lol
bronze sorrel
Are we uncensoring ||Pom Blossum|| yet btw?
hearty elbow
I think 1.0 stuff is open season now here
But it wasn't really ever a hard enforced rule, just being polite to newbies or carryovers from Early Access.
bronze sorrel
@lethal chasm theres a thing for the Codex you can get from house contractor that lets you look up boons in game
bronze sorrel
Do you want us to spoil the last keepsake for you?
lethal chasm
sure if i dont have it
idc about a spoiler in this game read like 20 lines of dialogue >_>
not that its bad im just a vroom vroom type of guy
actually i think im just missing chaos'
lol
bronze sorrel
It's called Sigil of the Dead. You get it from dad. It gives you a special call that turns you invisible and you get a damage boost coming out of the cloak.
lethal chasm
yaa have it
opal lodge
its insane
lethal chasm
is it good?
bronze sorrel
Oh ok
lethal chasm
i used it once
opal lodge
its like billowing call but better
bronze sorrel
Oh missed the Chaos bit
opal lodge
just make sure you get mileage out of the 2 second 100% damage boost
lethal chasm
ahh
bronze sorrel
ya, you just need to give Chaos a Nectar then
lethal chasm
werd
opal lodge
i thought it was just the invis at first so the damage boost was a nice surprise
bronze sorrel
It gives you +40% chance for rare or better on Chaos and you don't take damage going into the hole
sour bramble
It also gives you something else but that's probably spoilers.
hearty elbow
I like that there are a lot of fans of the Egg. Placebo effect at its finest since it doesn't actually do anything to make Chaos appear lol
cunning urchin
Cosmis Egg is amazing when you reroll Light of Ixion into another Light of Ixion.
bronze sorrel
I got that once. It was pretty nice
sour bramble
Chaos is probably my favourite character tbh.
cunning urchin
Especially in Elysium.
sour bramble
I love how they describe the egg using the most verbose explanation possible then later on when you go to chaos WITH the egg they're like "so apparently you people call this shape "egg"."
hearty elbow
It's the Chaos equivalent of Hypnos explaining what he did at work that day.
gray shore
Isn't Cosmic Egg quite good for beginners
because they can transfer some of the ease of Act 1
into powerful boons for later acts
when you're still trying to string together runs in the first place
making Chaos boons less punishing and a rare chance seems solid to me
cunning urchin
I think beginners will have the most trouble handling curses.
hearty elbow
You can still do that without the Egg lol. It's kind of just a more conditional Feather Duster.
bronze sorrel
Hey I have a challenge for you @cunning urchin. No Olympian keepsakes (except Lambent Plume) with a random Weapon and Aspect and Routine Inspection 1 and Approval Process 2. Add whatever heat on top of that you think makes it challenging; dealers choice. The idea is you have to use whatever boons the game gives you aside from any keys you can pick up.
hearty elbow
Beginners would probably be more apt to use stuff that actually makes their runs easier across the board
sour bramble
When I was first starting out the only keepsake I had was the collar from Cerb.
hearty elbow
Me too
gray shore
can't go wrong with taht
sour bramble
Which, turned out to be a REALLY good choice.
Because having 100 extra health when you're learning the game is so forgiving.
hearty elbow
It took me a while to get the keys for extra health since I prioritized unlocking weapons, so collar was a welcome addition
hearty elbow
It took me approximately 0 runs to want to give treats to the goodest boy
sour bramble
I honestly feel like giving Cerberus such a forgiving keepsake for new players was 100% intentional.
Because let's be fair, you're playing through the game for the first time, you just got your first nectar.
cunning urchin
@bronze sorrel that's not much of a challenge if I have to find the challenge myself by adding my own pacts. 
deft halo
sea storm, the duo boom zeus poseidon doesnt work with every shield with the chaos aspect right ? i tried it doesnt seems to work
sour bramble
Who are you going to give it to. Sleepy boy, solemn teacher, or BIG RED DOG.
OF COURSE YOU'RE GONNA GIVE IT TO THE DOG.
hearty elbow
1/3 of the heads is smiling and the other one is a sleepy boy. SURRENDER YOUR TREATS TO HIM.
Lol, only later did I find out that giving treats to Cerberus is a core gameplay mechanic loop.
bronze sorrel
@bronze sorrel that's not much of a challenge if I have to find the challenge myself by adding my own pacts.
@cunning urchin Ok if you prefer, 32 heat dealers choice. The challenge is mostly how well can you deal with an almost completely random build.
cunning urchin
I did 52 Heat with 4 boons lol.
sour bramble
52 Heat boonless no balls.
hearty elbow
There's like 80 asterisks on that statement lol. You had like, a free Heart Rend
sour bramble
You KNOW you want to.
hearty elbow
To attain that damage and speed you would need more than 4 boons now
cunning urchin
52 Heat is 52 Heat. Didn't see nobody else doing that. 
bronze sorrel
How would you do boonless? The game just makes you take boons sometimes
cunning urchin
Don't use those abilities, then.
sour bramble
Sell them.
hearty elbow
A ton of routing and patience. Or I guess just a LOT of patience.
bronze sorrel
what if the game forces you to take a boon on all your damage abilities? do you just loose by RNG?
unkempt scroll
Is it just me, when you get the Hermes boon that increases attack speed by 20%, doesn't it seem a bit like, it's 100%? 🤔
cunning urchin
I did boonless TD3 + some other stuff or something? I don't remember. I've also done RI4 at, I think, 33 Heat.
unkempt scroll
Kinda seems to me, but I'm using the fists. Might just be that
cunning urchin
Yeah, 33 RI4.
sour bramble
I am a 0 Heat purist, the way the game is meant to be played.
(not because i'm bad shut up)
unkempt scroll
Hah :p
bronze sorrel
Hey if you're getting a sub 7min run the world can still be impressed
unkempt scroll
I just today achieved the prophecy with the different pact options. Some of those options are rather difficult :c
lime mountain
What would be better with posiden, artimes , Zeus aspect of nemisis health back on hit build .
Double edged dash attack hits twice or flurry slash hit rapidly
hearty elbow
What would be better with posiden, artimes , Zeus aspect of nemisis health back on hit build .
Double edged dash attack hits twice or flurry slash hit rapidly
@lime mountain Wat
sour bramble
I still need to watch a speedrun of this game because I'm absolutely convinced that there's no way people are getting sub 7 minute runs with the amount of RNG present.
Unless you path your Tartarus, because that's a thing you can apparently do.
lime mountain
You know the thing for sword where you have less health and you gain two health on hit
hearty elbow
I think you're asking if you should take Double Edge or Flurry Slash on Nemesis. Take Double Edge.
unkempt scroll
... Isn't that the spear?
lime mountain
No it's the sword
green birch
Nah that’s fury Jan
unkempt zephyr
I still need to watch a speedrun of this game because I'm absolutely convinced that there's no way people are getting sub 7 minute runs with the amount of RNG present.
@sour bramble Probably its 10 results only from last weak 7m +-20 seconds)
green birch
*jab
unkempt scroll
The sword has a health penalty aspect as well... ?
bronze sorrel
I tried a run at 63 heat the other day. Meg basically 1shotted me.
cunning urchin
Those sub-7 runs are all unseeded lol.
hearty elbow
But something about Cursed Slash, if you're already locked into that then take Flurry Slash, yeah
Dash Strikes do not recover health
sour bramble
how
cunning urchin
Eris.
lime mountain
I took double edged already sadly
unkempt zephyr
Eris + poseidon dash+breaking wave
cunning urchin
- ||Sigil of the Dead|| keepsake
sour bramble
I mean it doesn't but it will when I watch one of them.
hearty elbow
In a vacuum it's Double Edge is by far the best hammer on Nemesis. You're honestly probably still fine. Spam Dash Strike, and use your basic attacks to recover health if you have an opening.
lime mountain
I want to play deflect only
bronze sorrel
challenge aside, what pacts do you all think are the most fun? I really like EM4, MM and BP2 personally.
bronze sorrel
?
hearty elbow
I think his answer was fine lol, those are the pacts that change encounters fundamentally
I like FO2 as well, gotta go fast
bronze sorrel
Extreme Measures 4, Middle Management and Benefits Package 2 if you don't know the acronyms?
cunning urchin
@bronze sorrel thanks for the suggestion, anyway. I might throw a run like that in sometime, but I'm honestly working on other things.
If I can give you a more interesting challenge, though, do RI3 AP2 EM3 MM FO2. 
bronze sorrel
@bronze sorrel thanks for the suggestion, anyway. I might throw a run like that in sometime, but I'm honestly working on other things.
@cunning urchin For sure. I know you said you have school and such. Anyhow, I'm interested to see some people try it at high heat. I did it at 14 and managed to make it through using hestia rail with most of my damage from Lightning Rod and Cluster Bomb.
it was a weird run
cunning urchin
Oh and BP2. Almost forgot.
bronze sorrel
why not EM4?
hearty elbow
Doing EM4 with 1 dash is... bold. I'm sure it can be done, but it would be a huge time expenditure to practice positioning and decision making
bronze sorrel
I just really like the music theme for EM4 lol
cunning urchin
That would be too easy otherwise.
RI3 AP2 EM3 MM FO2 BP2 HS. That's . . . 31 Heat.
bronze sorrel
hmmm, ok, I might throw in 1 more heat if I'm gonna try that. If I'm gonna do 31 heat for the first time, I might as well do 32 and get my last statue if I can beat it.
bronze sorrel
perfect. I like UC anyway to keep my builds lean.
unkempt scroll
54~ runs, and I just got divine protection for the first time o_o
cunning urchin
Congratulations.
bronze sorrel
last boon for the prophesy?
cunning urchin
Of course, the next time you see it now will be after the next 108 runs. And then after the next 216 runs . . .
bronze sorrel
Alright, I'll try this later and let you all know how bad I get wrecked.
hearty elbow
I mean.. for the amount that I take Athena I do not think I've ended 2 digits of runs with Divine Protection.
cunning urchin
Same lol.
bronze sorrel
current heat record for a successful escape is 16 lol
though the fact I keep insisting on putting EM4 on probably isn't helping me much
cunning urchin
You can use any god keepsake or aspect or whatever you like.
bronze sorrel
true, but I suspect I'm also gonna go through alot of DD since all the other bosses will be scaled up with this, and I'm bad at this game.
and dad will be weaker than I'm used to
cunning urchin
You think Hades will be easier than you're used to with only one dash, no Boiling Blood, no extra casts or regen cast, no Thick Skin, no Family Favorite or Privileged Status?
bronze sorrel
Fair point, but I still think Theseus and Asterius will be harder?
bronze sorrel
Maybe I'm wrong, but I usually prefer regular dad to EM3 Champions. I really don't enjoy Asterius on EM3
hearty elbow
You can't be wrong in your own experiences lol. They all require practice. And depends pretty heavily on other pacts, especially FO2
bronze sorrel
True, I usually only run FO1 I don't think I've done FO2 before, so my timing for everything is gonna be bad
cunning urchin
You can be wrong about your own experiences, actually.
bronze sorrel
lol
I probably am most of the time
I'm thinking I'll do Chiron? I'm not gonna be able to pick boons really, and I can't think of any Flourish I really HATE on chiron, though some are obviously better than others. Plus its a pretty braindead aspect.
cunning urchin
Your own intuition is not an objective measure of your performance. One task can seem harder to you than another even if in actuality you do better at the former.
Take your own pick. Wouldn't be much of a challenge if I recommended aspects and all that.
hearty elbow
I think FO2 Dad is probably harder than FO2 EM3, but EM3 kind of requires you learn how to handle very specific situations, whereas Dad is more of a "git gud" thing
young cairn
Does anyone know if Concentrated Knuckle works on dashes or is it pure auto hitt?
bronze sorrel
fair enough
cunning urchin
@young cairn only applies to the regular 5-hit Attack combo.
young cairn
Alright, thanks!
bronze sorrel
I mean, its gonna be a challenge regardless lol
but I will try and figure my own strategy out from here
cunning urchin
That's the spirit!
bronze sorrel
I'll let yall know how it went later. But spoiler alert I'm gonna die somewhere in Asphodel or Elysium probably.
hearty elbow
I die in Tartarus 90% of the time at high heat now.
Thanks TD3.
At least it's less time commital than dying in Elysium lol
bronze sorrel
well maybe I'll be more proud that I made it to meg on 63 heat then (and then got whomped)
cunning urchin
I think EM3 FO2 with 1 dash puts you in way more unfair situations than Hades FO2 and does so more regularly. But the fight is overall easier. They die faster.
hearty elbow
Hades also has the off chance of summoning Chariots, so... that's something.
cunning urchin
I guess Hades is easier now than pre-1.0 because you can use summons on him.
Taking 3k HP from him for free helps a lot in phase 1.
bronze sorrel
I honestly kinda hate fighting Asterius even without EM3. Theseus is whatever on either version aside from his obnoxious personality.
hearty elbow
Oh, weird. Asterius without EM3 is so easy to cheese. Just like, very slightly walk behind him when he jumps and go about your day.
gray shore
have you guys had runs on ultra high heat that you feel you could clear EM4 fairly easy (like without death defy)
fossil compass
I just got blizzard shot for the first time, it's surprisingly good D:
gray shore
or is it basically always hell
hearty elbow
EM4 is a lot more than a DPS check. Even with the nut damage build I feel naked without Patroclus or Athena DD buffer.
cunning urchin
You'll realize how awfully easy Asterius without EM is if you stand perfectly still trying to die for SD.
The guy can't hit.
bronze sorrel
the jumps aren't my issue, I'm just really deer in headlights responding to the charge lol. I can never get him to hit the pillars for some reason.
cunning urchin
Just dash away.
gray shore
chill also kinda makes him completely manageable
bronze sorrel
NGL I sometimes loose 2 DD to Asterius in the miniboss fight
hearty elbow
EM3 my biggest issue is usually dodging the phase 2 blasts from Asterius' shockwaves.
Particularly if I'm not actually focusing him, like if I'm chasing Theseus around while he's spinning, then he stops and makes shockwaves
cunning urchin
Speaking of EM3, I think Deflected bombs don't hurt you anymore like they used to? I'm pretty sure they used to, anyway. I dunno. The fight is so much easier lately.
hearty elbow
I still all of the circles like plague. That is cool though if it works.
cunning urchin
Although, I guess I used to do the fight with RI3 primarily, and I've been playing RI0 most of the time in 1.0 now.
hearty elbow
I remember the times when bombs ricocheting off of walls insta-exploded
cunning urchin
Yeah, I dunno if I just got better at dealing with them or if they improved them in some way.
hearty elbow
They should hurry up and make an EM8 so I can jump to thinking EM4 is easy. I remember practicing FO2 Dad pretty often in Blood Price, but he's basically just... not even close to a threat anymore compared to his EM.
mossy light
What makes the em so strong?
mellow quest
it ruins all your muscle memory for starters
ripe glade
A question about a boon and pact... If using the Lasting Consequences pack.. meaning no healing... if using the Twin Fists and you find the Deaudlus Boon 'Draining Cutter' +2 heal on special kill... does that boon work with that pact activated?
mellow quest
that double spin always gets me
hearty elbow
The summons, the animations, the urns kind of always spawn in phase 2, not sure exactly how it works, they just appear now. Phase 3 you have a lot less information to work with and thus you have to react harder to his stuff, and there are approximately 4 thousand urns on the screen at any given time, give or take
bitter cape
Is there a cheat sheet of abbreviations?
cunning urchin
Unrelated, but I've been told that Massive Spin on Guan Yu had better AOE and did more damage than Charged Skewer, and I just thought it was hilarious. https://imgur.com/a/dQg3wiA
hearty elbow
Is there a cheat sheet of abbreviations?
@bitter cape Yes, in #h1-high-heat-strategies sticky
cunning urchin
That's 5268 damage in total from one Special.
hearty elbow
The commonly used ones that aren't there are DD/SD, which is Death Defiance vs. Stubborn Defiance, and FF/PS, which is Family Favourite vs. Privileged Status
That's 5268 damage in total from one Special.
@cunning urchin But in that amount of time, Massive Spin could have healed you like, 3 HP.
cunning urchin
Nope.
Massive Spin would still be charging.
@ripe glade I answered already in the other channel. Draining Cutter can show up, and it will be affected by Lasting Consequences.
If you play with LC4, Draining Cutter will do 0 healing.
hearty elbow
You're looking at the glass 100% empty, instead of 0% full.
unkempt scroll
Welp... 12 heat-run beaten... I'm not looking forward to having to add attack speed...
hearty elbow
At 12 you really really don't "have" to add anything, there should still be plenty of stuff that doesn't make a huge impact
worn sand
Try doing +20/40% attack speed runs without any other damage modifiers, perhaps during a farm run, just to get used to it
unkempt scroll
I dislike just about half of the options, and attack speed typically ruins it for me...
worn sand
Then suddenly when you remove Forced Overtime and go back to +0% attack speed, you feel like it’s on easy mode
unkempt scroll
Already kinda is... I have tried with 20% a couple of times 🤔
worn sand
Personally I really enjoy extreme measures, benefits package, and middle management
unkempt scroll
Though, the final boss is still a bit up and down. But I think I'm getting the hang of how the different bosses works
I don't like the one that gives shielded enemies passives...
worn sand
All of those add a ton of heat & imo primarily make the game more interesting and fun to play, rather than pure +stat buffs
cunning urchin
Ah. Looks like those sub-7-minute runs lately are essentially exploiting a glitch with the Codex. Basically just opening/closing the Codex while walking messes up the in-game timer.
worn sand
I love that one personally
hearty elbow
Though it's a good idea to play with Benefits Package 1 for a while to get a feel for what each passive does before you go to the second rank, which does occassionally go buck wild
unkempt scroll
I've only tried EM-1, the first boss gets rather difficult, I think
I'm mostly concerned about the two final bosses with EM, though
worn sand
Try EM 2, while a bit more difficult, they just get more interesting to play
hearty elbow
EM2 is not that different. The arena changes.
worn sand
Default versions are rather simplistic
EM3, 4 can be a bit tougher yeah, but they add a ton of heat to compensate
hearty elbow
Yeah, EM3 and 4 are spooky, as is evidenced by their Heat values
cunning urchin
EM2 is very difficult the first few times, at least.
unkempt scroll
Well, yeah... but that arena + third round of lava spits?
cunning urchin
At least nowadays the Lernie variants are more distinct.
hearty elbow
The phase count is identical between Lernie and EM2 Lernie
unkempt scroll
Doesn't it spit like, everywhere?
cunning urchin
Back then, a whole lot of people never knew they could tell the variant from the color lol.
worn sand
Do like 2-3 runs of the alternate hydra fight and you wont think anything special about it, i promise
hearty elbow
Lernie and the summoned heads can be any of a pool of different options that have a varied move
cunning urchin
Or at least it took them a long time to figure out.
@hearty elbow I'm very sure it's always all white heads. 
mellow quest
mostly i hate when the main lernie head is the blue one simply because the random all over the place aoe circles are difficult to see when you are colorblind
unkempt scroll
I know. But when Lernie spits magna, doesn't it spit a lot of them in the third round? + EM2, doesn't that basically cover the entire arena?
cunning urchin
I'm not colorblind and they're difficult to see.
bronze sorrel
OK well, I tried the challenge. I actually got pretty decent boons so I can't blame the run. Epic tier on both Deadly Strike and Frost Flourish with Chiron. And then Meg killed me. I had her at like 3% health.
cunning urchin
Pretty good!
unkempt scroll
I'm using aspect of Zag fists...
cunning urchin
If at first you don't succeed, try, try again.
hearty elbow
I know. But when Lernie spits magna, doesn't it spit a lot of them in the third round? + EM2, doesn't that basically cover the entire arena?
@unkempt scroll Sometimes the majority of one of the 3 islands will get covered, but there are always 2 other islands.
unkempt scroll
Oh? Neat
hearty elbow
If you get unlucky, there are magma covered islands and White Lernie islands, so... yeah you have to pick your poison.
worn sand
@unkempt scroll there is a bunch of lava, yes, but i’d say it only covers ~25% of the ground overall, and usually one of the islands are virtually unaffected
bronze sorrel
Ya, I'll give it another go later this week. For now, I need to go eat and then plan a TTRPG session I'm GMing tomorrow that I've barely prepared for.
worn sand
IIRC they disappear after a while too, right?
unkempt scroll
Okay. And with EM3 I should go for Theseus first, right?
worn sand
Heightened secrurity is never getting turned on for me
hearty elbow
Lol, yeah, magma Lernie with melee and HS is not a joke.
opal lodge
with heightened security i lose 2 DDs to lava and cry
bronze sorrel
Thx for the challenge though @cunning urchin, thats a pretty fun pact.
unkempt scroll
HS??
hearty elbow
Heightened Security. 5x trap and lava damage
unkempt scroll
Ugh
opal lodge
5x jar damage
unkempt scroll
I don't wanna use that anymore...
hearty elbow
It's only 1 heat. It's very easy to turn off
unkempt scroll
I had to use it for the prophecy, no more, please...
worn sand
@unkempt scroll i always go for bull first. EM3 theseus mostly does his own thing on the other side of the arena and can be ignored
opal lodge
you can kind of keep pace with theseus using bull rush if you're using shield haha
it's kind of funny
unkempt scroll
Oh, okay... I've just heard you should go for the minotaur with EM3
hearty elbow
Lol, people always say they "go for bull" first in EM3, but in reality Asterius goes for you and you attack him to make him go away.
unkempt scroll
I think I prefer the fists
worn sand
@hearty elbow this is a factial statement
unkempt scroll
Lol
fossil compass
I just got arthur for the first time, this feels so damn broken
dense crest
do you guys use m+k or controller?
hearty elbow
Pad Gang
fossil compass
500 attack on chamber 8 or something, plus all the damage reduction
and yeah controller for me, M+K hurts my wrist this game
dense crest
M+K for me, I stopped playing Dead Cells cause this game has better M+K control imo
feels great to play
hearty elbow
@fossil compass It is extremely good until very high heat. You're not imagining it
cunning urchin
It's faster to go after EM Theseus first if you can. But that's not always reasonable.
fossil compass
I thought I'd never use anything other than poseidon on sword, but this just feels... insane
I can stack up to 70% damage reduction easily
( I assume it's additive, aura + weak + athena + more weak potency boon)
opal lodge
Im doing M&K but all my binds are on my mouse so i just accept eris-induced arthritis
cunning urchin
That's because you'll be dealing damage to Asterius easily while attacking Theseus, so you'll just be hitting both a lot.
hearty elbow
It's multiplicative. You can't reach 100% mitigation
fossil compass
ah I see, that makes more sense. Thanks!
cunning urchin
Broken Resolve is additive, though.
hearty elbow
Still though, without Hard Labor or Forced Overtime, everything is super slow with Greater Consecration and doing no damage. Ezpz
hearty elbow
Arthur gets omega big brained at high heat though.
torpid wren
Tried Zag bow recently.. with Artemis attack and Dash Strike... It hella hurt my hands ALOT, but the bow is pretty solid.
cunning urchin
With Ruthless Reflex + Lambent Plume + Heartbreak Strike on Excalibur, you can get absolutely silly amounts of eHP lol.
opal lodge
consecration negates lava right
hearty elbow
Yeah
unkempt pagoda
yes, it's considered a trap
opal lodge
niceu
hearty elbow
You can still break urns though
fossil compass
thanks for letting me know before ashpodel
torpid wren
What are some interesting Zag Bow builds? i kinda want to do another one
unkempt pagoda
shotgun special with charged volley is apparently very good
cunning urchin
Heartbreak Strike, Deadly Flourish, Zeus' Aid, Heart Rend, Smoldering Air.
Well.
Deadly Flourish or True Shot. Either one.
For Zag Bow.
hearty elbow
What are some interesting Zag Bow builds? i kinda want to do another one
@torpid wren You can do point blank range Charged Volley + either Concentrated or Relentless. Works well with Deadly Flourish + Heartbreak Strike for Heart Rend
cunning urchin
With Hunter Dash.
hearty elbow
It's basically the Chiron build but you sacrifice literally all range (you have to be inside of them lol) for THICC numbers.
torpid wren
Okay then! Let's gooo. Hopeully i'm lucky with the hammers'
hearty elbow
It's very noncommital. Heartbreak Strike is already OP on Zag Bow by itself
If you see Charged Volley, just pick up Artemis in Asphodel
cunning urchin
Well, you want to take the Arrowhead into Asphodel either way.
hearty elbow
You may want to do that regardless since it gives you chance for Heart Rend on your base crit
cunning urchin
I'd only not take the Arrowhead if I'd already picked up Zeus' Aid in Tartarus and want to try getting Smoldering Air.
hearty elbow
Twin Shot Zag really wants Divine Dash though
edgy delta
what is the best aspect to malphon
hearty elbow
Demeter
cunning urchin
Demeter Aspect.
edgy delta
ok
fossil compass
I like gilgamesh... it's fun. But in higher heat demeter wins I guess
hearty elbow
I just wish every animation with Gilgamesh didn't feel like pulling my teeth out of my head.
cunning urchin
I think it wins at any heat.
fossil compass
yeah, I think the fun aspect of it is what made me like it
hearty elbow
The extra damage taken on Maim wouldn't even be that big of a deal if the game didn't turn into Pokemon when you used it
"Zagreus used Maim. It's not very effective."
"Okay, now it's your turn."
cunning urchin
My only wish for the hidden aspect of Malphon was that it wouldn't be slow, heavy hits.
hearty elbow
I like that part of the playstyle. All of the fists play Gotta Go Fast. It feels nice to have a version that's more deliberate
fossil compass
idk the bear claws are kinda cute too
hearty elbow
Zagreus' stances with the claws are also awesome.
cunning urchin
I was also hoping for not another hidden aspect of a guy tbh.
unkempt zephyr
I'm fine with the current aspect. The only thing I would add is +10 damage to attack base damage.Becaus aspect to risky in game play
Slow attacks + increasing damage from Foes under Miam.Its High risk.
hearty elbow
I was also hoping for not another hidden aspect of a guy tbh.
@cunning urchin Lol, tbf SGG didn't invent sexism in ancient hero myths.
cunning urchin
All of the fists play Gotta Go Fast.
That's why it's my favorite weapon lol.
I was hoping for something that doubles down on it or adds variation while keeping that spirit. Like I dunno, normal Attack combo becomes kicks or you get access to a charged or something that gives extra mobility . . .
Why does Excalibur get to chunk for 200 with +50 HP and 40% DR while Gilgamesh has no range but takes +50% damage if you try to use its skill.
The +50% damage you take is a lie, anyway.
You take way more because you'll get hit trying to apply that to anything.
unkempt zephyr
Yup. Artur alote more save then claws
agree
for comparing.... artur range
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/764819599711272960/766792994438250526/Hades_81.png
fossil compass
really stupid question... is the satyr tunnel completely random, or is there a way to "guess" the right one?
ornate prawn
hearty elbow
There's a ton of hearsay here about the actual odds of getting each sack count. I've seen concrete discussions in the speedrunning discord though.
fossil compass
what! this is total news to me
never the first one huh...
I havent got first or last tunnel yet in my 100 runs
hearty elbow
Yeah, I've heard on this discord that it's 25% chance for each outcome, which is ridiculous.
willow fossil
Not the first
It cant be in the first
Then after that is 25% since is 4 tunnels left
hearty elbow
I could maybe see it being a coin flip check for each pathway, so 2 -> 50%, 3 -> 25% and 12.5 for 4/5, but I still get 5 way less frequently than 4, so shrug
mighty ermine
i've previously heard that it's a 50/50 chance from the second tunnel onward, which i basically believe at this point because it lines up with my experience pretty well
willow fossil
But you lose health
If you find it in the last tunnel you can use the fountain and fight healthy
hearty elbow
Shrug, maybe learn to work with less? Very very rarely do I find I ever actually want more than 3 of the door rewards, better yet be willing to pay for them in time and health.
fossil compass
alrighty, just left with guan yu aspect to get to hades for achievement
limber flax
so
fossil compass
I hate that weapon so much
solid portal
Guan Yu looks bootie doo
unkempt zephyr
Today speedruner Wriste have INSANE time....but 5sacks...
ruin attempt.
mighty ermine
gotta love sack rng ruining speedruns and high heat TD3 runs without discrimination
fossil compass
guan yu visuals looks great, but absolute pain to play with for me
I'm just gonna go 0 heat and never touch it again
hearty elbow
gotta love sack rng ruining speedruns and high heat TD3 runs without discrimination
@mighty ermine Just don't pick it.
mighty ermine
lol
limber flax
what attack boons are the best dps increase?
willow fossil
Shrug, maybe learn to work with less? Very very rarely do I find I ever actually want more than 3 of the door rewards, better yet be willing to pay for them in time and health.
Not really a speedrunner so idc about the time, and well the health, thats why I like it in the last tunnel so I can heal
limber flax
in terms of percentage
willow fossil
Athena has high scaling
hearty elbow
@willow fossil If you look at things in terms of net health lost and gained, unless you're eke-ing all of the value out of that fountain, the net damage you will take in 5 tunnels will be that amount regardless of when the heal happens.
If you can actually clear the tunnels with so little damage that waiting for the 5th room is optimal, then you probably don't need the heal at all.
willow fossil
Not if you have strong drink
mighty ermine
@limber flax aphrodite is the highest straightforward +% for both strike and flourish
unkempt zephyr
Athena has high scaling
@willow fossil Aphro>demeter=Athena>poseidon>artemis (%damage from attack)
fossil compass
I really like aphrodite attack and demeter special for chiron
willow fossil
Ah
hearty elbow
what special/attack boon do you recommend on chiron?
@limber flax Heartbreak Strike + Deadly Flourish is el classico
fossil compass
instant 10 stack to make things easy, and weak for less damage + extra damage from boon
fossil compass
some people like artemis on special?
fossil compass
I'm kinda bad at high heat though, so the slow makes it nice. and the decay on chill is also really nice
hearty elbow
It's the same crit rate as a weapon that hits less often but it is normalized by the amount of hits
You get some really nice benefits from Hunter's Mark and Hunter's Instinct though
Chiron feels very much like you have Smoldering Air at all times.
Especially with Relentless Volley
limber flax
thats sounds really really strong?
limber flax
well
still 8
and i have relentless volley
but i cant imagine it would proc 8 times
would be broken
hearty elbow
think it's every hit still
@next remnant Thunder Flourish has a .2s internal cooldown on each enemy
hearty elbow
On most Chiron Volleys, you will get 1 proc per enemy hit, maybe 2 if the trajectory is weird
torpid wren
Tried the Zag bow build that was suggested... the seed gave me everything i needed midway in the second zone. last boss 2nd form died in 3 charged volleys 😆
fossil compass
what's a seed?
hearty elbow
When you die, you get a number, and that number defines what you get in your first room, and then more subtly determines everything that can happen from that point onwards
fossil compass
but that's outside our control right?
opal lodge
i got flood shot mirage shot and charged volley in tartarus and somehow lost by elysium in my hera run
hearty elbow
You can "keep" a seed by Giving Up during runs
opal lodge
besides mods
fossil compass
I kinda figured that RNG bit, a bit like pokemon early gen I think
hearty elbow
Which retains the contents of your first room. If you do that enough times, you'll start noticing patterns in rooms and boons that come up, especially in Tartarus. That is the basis of routing.
torpid wren
seeds could be controlled somewhat. but mostly in the first room. the rest is just algorithm knowledge.
fossil compass
thanks for the explanation, that sounds like speedrun tactics that is too complex for me
opal lodge
most speedruns rn are focused on unseeded iirc
so they have to show a death first to prove its not seeded
bronze sorrel
I think the seed mod is nice for stuff like hermes cup so I'm glad its out there but I don't think I'd use it
opal lodge
yeah its useful to have for sure just not how i would want to play
hearty elbow
For normal completion for heat, it was very common in Early Access (we've since moved on mostly to unseeded runs in 1.0) to find seeds by dying over and over and over again to maximize the odds of completing runs with AP2. I think we as a community have decided that Heat is not as important as Happiness, so that is not nearly as ubiquitous now.
opal lodge
ah yeah i didnt even think of ap
fossil compass
what's AP?
hearty elbow
Approval Process
Each rank will randomly cut off one of your boon, hammer, pom, or Chaos options
fossil compass
ah ok
opal lodge
so at 2 you take what you get
torpid wren
one example is.. if you load a run and see a hammer in the first room, it's always going to be a hammer if you don't die > give up the run > start run again... regaurdless of what weapon you choose
willow fossil
but tbh that ability kinda ruins the game for me
Agreed, you can already set a starting god with keepsakes, but still is good for speedrun races where you want the same seed
hearty elbow
The meta pre-1.0 for very high heat was finding your ideal hammer (harder than it sounds since it needs to be given with AP2) then just playing the game with maybe 1 boon and your hammer and that's it.
Miserable and horrifically tedious
bronze sorrel
Tbh I kinda wish AP didn't show you the boon it locked. Its like its taunting me
opal lodge
sounds lime it haha
next remnant
Fairly sure some of the speedrun tourneys has been with set seeds
opal lodge
yeah theres definitely seeded runs
hearty elbow
There's nothing wrong with seeds, it's just a different play mentality
next remnant
I recall hearing about one a couple months back using the current WR seed, so that's something
hearty elbow
What was wrong was how insanely tedious it was to find them intentionally
willow fossil
Tbh I kinda wish AP didn't show you the boon it locked. Its like its taunting me
Thats the point. Is hades laughing in your face
opal lodge
the mental game
next remnant
Seeds are funky, since you could do "hey, check how insanely crazy this seed is", like how some seeds in Isaac have been
bronze sorrel
I think competitively speaking right now its seeded for Hermes but unseeded for leaderboards right now, is that right @hearty elbow ?
opal lodge
theres lbs for both seeded and jnseeded
fossil compass
if it's so important, why not mod it for speedrun/tourney to give a set boons/etc?
bronze sorrel
But is anyone competing in seeded right now?
fossil compass
so everyone have the same fair play?
torpid wren
I tend to use "seeds" as a term in any sort of roguelike game, even if this one makes it hidden/uncontrollable from the player without mods
opal lodge
@fossil compass its a matter of what skills you see fit to test
if you see keepsake usage/algorithm knowledge as a core part of the tame
game
hearty elbow
I think competitively speaking right now its seeded for Hermes but unseeded for leaderboards right now, is that right @hearty elbow ?
@bronze sorrel Our community leaderboard here makes the distinction between unseeded/seeded/routed runs
torpid wren
although I'd say.. this game by nature doesn't give bad seeds... just bad hammers
hearty elbow
The "official" leaderboard on speedrun.com is a total joke since it gates 50+, which has a current population of 6 people.
opal lodge
wym by gates 50+
hearty elbow
Including yours truly as of a couple of weeks ago lmao.
opal lodge
lol big congrats
bronze sorrel
I have definitely gotten seeds with almost all common boons, so I'd call that a bad seed
hearty elbow
You can only submit for runs of 50+ heat
opal lodge
thats the high heat LB though right
hearty elbow
LB?
hearty elbow
I think 45 is a good compromise that would decrease the burden of validation and still allow people to submit at all.
next remnant
@fossil compass if you don't mind, I'm about to send you a link to a Binding of Isaac run you might've seen if you're very interested. It's on the topic of seeds with set items
bronze sorrel
chiron relentless volley is stupid broken
@limber flax its good but I don't think its unbalanced.
opal lodge
im curious does anyone take concentrated over relentless or is it objectively worse
fossil compass
@next remnant please do, this is interesting topic, thanks 🙂
oooh SGDQ! My favourite gaming event
hearty elbow
It would be funny but pointless yeah lol
untold vortex
on the topic of gdq, from memory I think Haelian and Vorime submitted an all weapons race for agdq 2021
bronze sorrel
I guess itd be hard to validate
untold vortex
(I remember seeing it on the submissions list anyways)
hearty elbow
im curious does anyone take concentrated over relentless or is it objectively worse
@opal lodge Since the arrow count was raised to 8 in the last patch, Concentrated should outperform Relentless now, provided all of the arrows hit
opal lodge
ty that is good to know
hearty elbow
To be fair, on paper, it already outperformed Relentless in 1.0, but sometimes the arrows do not connect and your damage could tank
It's way more now though
Since each arrow's damage went down, and an arrow was added.
bronze sorrel
How much was damage reduced by per arrow again?
untold vortex
(edited because my maths was bad) +108 base damage vs + 40 base (assuming all arrows hit) concentrated vs whatever + 4 arrows hammer is called
hearty elbow
How much was damage reduced by per arrow again?
@bronze sorrel 33% per arrow
15->10
plush latch
opener is pretty good
using zag fists
wondering if i should burn killing freeze
if it works on bosses i think maybe, but otherwise...meh?
hearty elbow
I'd probably get rid of Sweet Surrender
mighty ermine
it does work on bosses; killing freeze just needs all enemies inflicted with chill
opal lodge
it works on bosses
limber flax
does the time pass during dialogue?
mighty ermine
no
limber flax
okay good
opal lodge
if youre trying to save more time
plush latch
its p fair abt time, altho i kinda wish it'd pause in the boon info screen
hearty elbow
@hearty elbow i've got weak on dash, so i think its p keepable
@plush latch It's 10% additive damage, you won't miss it
opal lodge
during thanatos encounters you can open codex at the end
and the timer stops until you close it again
mighty ermine
wait, and than will leave while your codex is open? that's a neat tech i didn't know about
unkempt pagoda
oh yeah that codex tech i heard about
untold vortex
ooh that's actually pretty cool speedtech
opal lodge
like after you kill the last enemy he usually stalls the clock lol
hearty elbow
I saw it being discussed in the speedrunner discord yeah
opal lodge
so if you open codex and wait by doors you get some time back
limber flax
wow
i just had my most OP run and now im not gonna see my cool time bc of smth with story lol
hmm
limber flax
ah yea
credits
when you have the most OP run but the game doesnt let you fight hades :(
fossil compass
once I maxed out mirror upgrades, will darkness be useless? other than title stuff
limber flax
should i upgrade gods pride or legacy
stark ore
Depends on what build you usually go for, since I usually try to get Hunting Blades I tend to go for God's Legacy but if your build doesn't need any Duos or Legendaries then go for God's Pride
willow fossil
once I maxed out mirror upgrades, will darkness be useless? other than title stuff
@fossil compass you can trade it at the broker, also theres a resource director that requires a lot of darkness for a badge, and a theme for like 25k
unkempt pagoda
just saw that ares aid's greater call bonus is an extra .2 seconds of time over if you had just used 4 lesser calls
wow, great 
spare flare
There are also limited-time deals from the Wretched Broker that trade darkness for stuff.
willow fossil
Everytime you enter the house, the broker will have 1 special deal yes
You can only use it once
Per visit
Usually is good depending on what you need
spare flare
Naw, a bunch of them are traps.
willow fossil
If you need the resource, it really isny
Cause you need it
Whether it was worth or not
spare flare
"Finally, the Wretched Broker has some time-limited trades, not all of which are good. Here are the good ones for which to watch (and why it's wise to keep a stock of gemstones in case you need to spam the regular trades to get the price of these great offers):
15 keys -> 1 blood (85% off)
100 gemstones -> 1 diamond (80% off)
10 gemstones -> 1 nectar (80% off)
10 nectar -> 1 ambrosia (50% off)
25 darkness -> 3 keys (16.6...% off)
Special note: 300 darkness for 50 gemstones is numerically a rip-off (They're ostensibly of the same value, remember?), but keep in mind the facts that, again, the game gives plentiful darkness, and you will eventually run out of Mirror of Night upgrades."
smoky atlas
is there a resource that talks about how god boons are determined in a run
spare flare
Naw, man, a diamond isn't worth a titan blood. You can't "need" a diamond badly enough to justify that much waste.
What do you mean, Poseidon-lover? Like, which gods are chosen? It's randomized with weights, with boons for gods that you've already gotten in this run being weighed more highly.
smoky atlas
i mean ive heard people say that theseus always summon a god that you dont have
which means you can manipulate which god he calls upon?
unkempt pagoda
it'll take a while to type this out
smoky atlas
im not in a hurry so i'd appreciate as much info as possible 😄
lethal chasm
u be reading da json ? lmao
unkempt pagoda
@smoky atlas my best understanding is this:
- You have four "slots" for gods, which are empty at the beginning of a run. This means that basically all boons given will be random.
- As soon as you pick a god, one slot will be "locked in", meaning this god will be in your pool for the rest of the run. All other slots will still give random gods.
- As soon as you get all four slots locked in, these will be the only four gods that will spawn naturally for the rest of the run (even through rerolls).
- However! You can also force gods using god keepsakes, meaning that it's possible to get extra gods than what your slots allow.
- (How this affects the chances of getting your slotted gods, I'm not sure. It could be that this god isn't added to your pool, or they are added, but I've never seen confirmation one way or another.)
- The way it works out is that there will always be at least one god who you could not have possibly picked up before Theseus. Theseus will choose one out of these unchosen gods to call on.
unkempt pagoda
keep in mind that i am not a dataminer, this is just info i've picked up from others around in the server who were also curious
smoky atlas
i see, so at most you can have 7 gods in your "pool" and theseus will pick the 8th one
opal lodge
does that god replace one of your 4
unkempt pagoda
i don't know!
opal lodge
ty anyhow
unkempt pagoda
it's possible they do, or they aren't added at all, or you suddenly get a 5th extra slot
opal lodge
that info is useful i did not know there were only 4 slots
@smoky atlas unless my math is bad its max 6 gods tight
smoky atlas
4 natural gods + 3 keepsakes
opal lodge
yeah but only the two you get in asphodel and elysium matter
unkempt pagoda
if you used a keepsake in tartarus, that'd be before your slots were locked in, so that'd still take up a slot
smoky atlas
opal lodge
because the one you use in tartarus will count toward your 4 god slots
mighty ermine
another thing: if a god appears as a chamber reward for you; say you have a choice between centaur heart and poseidon, and you take the heart, poseidon will not necessarily take up a slot from appearing as a reward since you never took anything from him
smoky atlas
oh ye, idk if keepsake boon counts towards your 4 slots
unkempt pagoda
if i'm doing my math correctly, this means you can only have 7 max total, the 7th in styx
mighty ermine
so if a god shows up that you do not want, you can try to ignore them where possible
unkempt pagoda
yeah, this is only when you get an actual boon from a god
onyx parcel
if i’m doing my math correctly, this means you can only have 7 max total, the 7th in styx
@unkempt pagoda why not 8
5 in Tartarus
unkempt pagoda
if you use a keepsake in tartarus, that will take up a slot
onyx parcel
Oh wait I can’t get 5 without forcing can u
unkempt pagoda
it wouldn't count as an extra god
onyx parcel
So max is 4 in Tartarus
pallid drum
how is companion fidi?
opal lodge
7 total i was assuming they were still talking about theseus manipulation lol
unkempt pagoda
so you'd need 4 in tartarus, +1 in aspho, +1 elysium, +1 styx
onyx parcel
it wouldn’t count as an extra god
@unkempt pagoda wait but wouldn’t it be 8
Cause Hermès
Doesn’t take up a slot
opal lodge
lol
smoky atlas
thank you for the info so far guys 😄
mighty ermine
hermes exists outside the pool and doesn't take up a slot yeah
unkempt pagoda
i meant god in context of slots lol
opal lodge
i guess but hermes also doesnt fight you haha
onyx parcel
Oh ok
unkempt pagoda
hermes, mechanically, is like a weird hammer/god mix that decides when to count as a god at his own leisure
smoky atlas
another question, if I only have 1 boon from say, aphro, then i purge it, does that take aphro from my "god slots"?
mighty ermine
to be fair FF's description mentions olympians specifically, and hermes is an olympian
which remains consistent with chaos not counting
unkempt pagoda
true, and it's more intuitive that way
opal lodge
ah ok now its all making sense how i missed merciful end all those times
i was always just taking free boons and selling
did not know about slots
smoky atlas
this is very nice to know
i was afraid of taking random boons to sell because i didnt want to dilute my "pool"
opal lodge
and now i know to just reroll or dodge gods i dont want
unkempt pagoda
if we could get confirmation on whether extra forced gods add a slot, replace a slot, or are never added, that would be lovely 😄
smoky atlas
if forcing a god doesnt lock them in, it kinda decrease the power of god keepsakes a bit
but I think it migth be the case
as ive been trying to force some duos but keepsakes only give me that god once sometimes
spare flare
@pallid drum Fidi's super great.
mighty ermine
i have a theory that it might be as simple as: having one boon active on you from a god means they are currently in your pool, while taking one and then selling that lone boon from them later means it could potentially remove them from the pool
but it's hard to tell because of that interacting weirdly with forced keepsakes etc
mighty ermine
i've had runs where i might pick up battle rage or something from ares, then purge it between biomes, and never see ares again
lone lava
Do you need to force the 2nd god with a keepsake before you've filled all your slots?
smoky atlas
is there a min/max number of god rooms per run/area?
opal lodge
ive also had runs where i took battle rage, sold it and then only seen ares hahaha
lone lava
Oh dang if you can actually purge them from your pool that would be very useful
I'd yeet Ares and Dem a fair bit so
opal lodge
@lone lava current discussion seems to be that we do not know if a keepsake god replaces a god if all four slots are filled
lone lava
I see
mighty ermine
right, i don't think i'm 100% clear about this myself, because nobody knows anything super conclusive about it anyway
opal lodge
or if selling a god removes them from slots
lone lava
We can probably try test it
spare flare
Didn't we say earlier that god keepsakes don't work in Styx?
lone lava
how large a sample size would we need
opal lodge
@spare flare no it works, i just assumed the person who was asking was asking how many different gods you could get before theseus
because they wanted to know if you could choose the god theseus summons
spare flare
And I'm 100% certain that I've sold a boon from a god that gave me only one and seen that god later in the run, so that definitely doesn't remove them from your pool.
smoky atlas
and how to better shape your run yea @opal lodge
opal lodge
could also be that you didnt have all 4 slots filled
spare flare
Yeah, but someone said earlier that a god keepsake doesn't affect any of the chambers or the shop in Styx.
unkempt pagoda
i've had runs where i might pick up battle rage or something from ares, then purge it between biomes, and never see ares again
but it's entirely possible that he was in your pool, but you just got lucky and had him never spawn
mighty ermine
i mean, it's also possible for that god with the sold boon to be reintroduced back into the pool randomly
opal lodge
im gonna keep track of my next 25 or so runs trying to get 4 gods in tart
@lone lava about the build you posted
in victory channel
lone lava
The Achilles?
opal lodge
you werent worried about getting lightningrod?
yeah
i feel like whenever i do that i always end up with lightning rod polluting my duo pools for zeus
lone lava
So I asked in the speedrunning discord about this and why their doc says to go Zeus > Artemis rather than Zeus > Aphrodite
Since obviously Smouldering Air is great while Lightning Rod is less great haha especially on a cast build
But yeah they said it's cause Artemis dmg scales better with secondary boons and stuff like hunters mark and PP helps your casts with crits too
And Artemis legendary is very good
lone lava
In that run I got a natural Poseidon too which worked out nice for mirage shot
Yeah I thankfully didn't see it there but if you get it super early like in tartarus or asphodel you can also sell it for a good bit of $ to use
opal lodge
i honestly would be worried about not getting mirage shot/sea storm if i sold it
but maybe after getting them
that build looks sick though have to try it
lone lava
Yeah it's actually very strong, mostly at room clearing
Zeus cast with +150% dmg does work
Didn't expect a 10:33 haha
smoky atlas
speaking of mirage shot, does it drop an extra ammo for lightning rod
smoky atlas
😄
lone lava
Might go for sub 10min on fists or eris now
smoky atlas
oh well
opal lodge
my fastest is just under 12 with the braindead rail setup
smoky atlas
🤔 yea makes sense
opal lodge
im probably inefficient in other areas if i cant break 10 on rail
lone lava
Hey give yourself some credit haha, you still have to reload and aim special so it's not FULLY braindead
opal lodge
i actually take delta chamber so i dont even have to reload lmao
lone lava
I'm assuming you know how to maximise free chambers and stuff right
lone lava
Bro delta chamber is pog
opal lodge
had 5 chaos gates in my pb
lone lava
Love not having to reload for some reclined gaming
lone lava
It's always something huh
I think I'll run some beo next since everything else is sub 14 and it's 16:xx
still vigil
howre yall gettin these sub 20 runs qwq
opal lodge
cheesing
still vigil
i just got 22 min on fists
opal lodge
also jerds has a nice guide on speedrun website
lone lava
Know good build, take free rooms, don't afk
mighty ermine
@unkempt pagoda actually i think you're right, now i'm remembering several times where i had done the same thing with gods and yet they still wouldn't quit trying to give me boons after i tried to be rid of them. that one example with ares never showing up even in shops or chamber choices probably just stuck out to me
lone lava
And boom sub 15
still vigil
free rooms?
lone lava
Rooms that don't have combat
still vigil
oh
opal lodge
npcs
lone lava
Some even pause timer
opal lodge
npcs pause timer which is huge
lone lava
Yeah sis/eurid/patty, midshop, chaos gate, fountain
There's a set number of rooms before you get the boss
opal lodge
do fountain chambers have a tell or is it dumb luck
lone lava
Just dumb luck
unkempt pagoda
luck
still vigil
luck
opal lodge
dang
lone lava
I guess you can sliiiightly aim for them
By taking a single boon over a trial of the gods
opal lodge
do you ever take trial when going for time
lone lava
I know elysium trials used to be very fast actually
But they were nerfed (buffed? they made them harder anyway)
So idk if they're still worth doing
opal lodge
patch notes says they made it harder in elysium
lone lava
I skipped and elysium arte ares trial for just arte and got a fountain haha which was nice
I think you always skip em in Tartarus and Asphodel anyway at least
mighty ermine
@opal lodge the amount of enemy spawns in tartarus trials right now is a little extreme sometimes and weirdly staggered (many small-ish waves coming in for a very long time) so i actively avoid them if trying to go fast in tartarus
lone lava
Wow you apparently can't get duo boons in trials period
I was under the impression that you just can't get duos between the two gods in the trial
opal lodge
you cannot get duos in trials correct
mossy light
how about legends?
lone lava
Yeah you can get legendaries but no duos
opal lodge
its good to know that about the tartarus trials thanks @mighty ermine
spare flare
Wow, look at this. For my first non-Chaos boon, with Aspect of Arthur, should I get Curse of Agony or Slicing Shot, both Epic?
turbid needle
What's everyone's max damage dealt? I'm curious to know if someone can beat my current one. :3
unkempt pagoda
saw @dry ember once hit 8k on an arthur crit
dry ember
not me
some dude i forgot the name
but he said it's ok for me to post the shot so ¯_(ツ)_/¯
untold vortex
@dense crest victory screen screenshots go into #h1-victory-boasting ^_^
congrats btw 
opal lodge
most i ever did was somewhere in the high 5k range with dio cast
either that or some nonsense with arthur
still proudest of my 500 damage on splash dash
grim loom
if a chaos boon says i cannot earn gold, does that also apply to sisyphus and golden touch?
opal lodge
its the little things
opal lodge
yeah
eris rail go brr
also it was like a level 3 dash with wave pounding and several other add on effects
opal lodge
it was funny for sure
grim loom
golly i can imagine the final fight like
runs straight into the boss. runs straight into the boss. runs straight into the boss. runs straight into the boss. runs straight into the boss. runs str-
grim loom
right i was wondering whether that's only specifically room rewards, or gold at all
solid cairn
Such as selling boons
grim loom
oh yeesh
lethal chasm
is there anything to tilt satyr rng
or just pure to the gods w it
ie bosses more chance?
opal lodge
satyr rng?
cosmic jacinth
how good is the shot gun gun
unkempt pagoda
very good
cosmic jacinth
how to use big damage gun gun which is shot gun gun XD
wicked horizon
It's best with Eris or Zagreus forms
solid cairn
You talking about spread fire
unkempt pagoda
aphro or artemis, but any damage modifier god works
opal lodge
artemis on attack i think
unkempt pagoda
spread fire is the heavy knuckle of rail, it switches out many small hits for less big hits