what about festive fog
#h1-builds-and-combat
cinder flower
i didn't enjoy it lol
lofty totem
Mike im going for a 1 boon run
cinder flower
gleaming current
Probably not too well because lodging casts are 5 seconds cd and non-lodging have their internal cd
lofty totem
see crab, that is true, but itl let me focus on dodging or running the hell away
gleaming current
For that you can also drunken strike
lofty totem
very true
lofty totem
but doesnt that have the same problem as zeus scaling
it just gets too weak after like level 5
cinder flower
going back to backstab hera bow
gleaming current
+1 is actually greater than most deals you get
All boons pretty much stop after lvl 5 so
unkempt pagoda
your issue was using stygian soul instead of infernal
gleaming current
Including doom, albeit its just a tad more solid
cinder flower
@unkempt pagoda when i asked in discord like 6 people told me to use stygian lol
gleaming current
It's like: better to get 1dmg more on 15 dmg attack than 2% on 100% attack
cinder flower
plus with infernal soul you have to wait for the cloud to finish to get the cast back
unkempt pagoda
infernal has both better cc and better burst potential
since you have a choice between shooting one shot and shooting two/three
lofty totem
outside of hera, beowulf builds I tend to always go for regen cast
its preference
theres no definitive way to play
if I were to run doom, which weapon and aspect
gleaming current
Whatever is fastest to apply and safest otherwise
unkempt pagoda
fists4, go curse of agony, divine flourish, divine dash, and fish for merciful end
lofty totem
see I was thinking one of the shields
stark summit
opal lodge
@unkempt pagoda is that for demeter fists
lofty totem
onyx did you forget what im trying to do here
unkempt pagoda
well, demfists can do ME too, but fists4 does it better
what with the extra dashes and all
opal lodge
i thought ME only procs on attacks though
mighty ermine
nah, any boon that deflects
unkempt pagoda
any ability that deflects will proc doom with ME, which includes divine dash
opal lodge
kind of huge
i guess i just assumed since ME requires divine strike or flourish that only those would activate it
unkempt pagoda
dash attack on the fists does both the doom and the divine, and fists4 has more dashes that are automatic
opal lodge
guess i was wrong
huge i'll have to try that
with greater reflex right
or the other one
ruthless
unkempt pagoda
yep, though it's worth noting that ruthless is also viable on fists4
though for this build specifically you want greater for the extra dash
i guess i just assumed since ME requires divine strike or flourish that only those would activate it
easy mistake to make tbf, divine dash was removed as a valid prerequisite in 1.0
cinder flower
when I tried doom fist that caught me off guard too
with doom fish you just want to dash strike none stop right?
unkempt pagoda
with ME fists, yes
bronze echo
this may be a dumb question but with the exit wounds boon from i think art..does that proc with the poseidon aspect on the sword with the special attack?
turbid needle
Yes.
bronze echo
oh that might be kind of fun
jaunty locust
actually since we're talking about the casts and stuff
do overlapping scintillating fogs double up on lightning strikes
or is the play to cover a larger area
turbid needle
Doubles up on strikes.
jaunty locust
yeah while I was trying to unlock aspect 4 I managed to grind out the merciful end with.... athena dash, ares attack, and a few more things to make it yummy. It was good
oh, ok. So if I know someone's gonna be still (laser spin) I can stack multiples and go wild
but if they're more mobile (asterius, furies in theory) you'd maybe spread it out
artemis is really good for cast builds huh
turbid needle
Yup.
jaunty locust
ok, so just to track - the hera bow makes the time a bloodstone is stuck in an enemy shorter, it doesn't affect duration of like festive fog and stuff. But you can combine that with the Hermes boons and Artemis' legendary to give you a bunch of bloodstones that will all fire attacks directly into some boss, and then very soon after, tear out for big damage, yes? That's the sort of standard hera single-target kill strategy?
quaint warren
Lightning Rod isn't a boon I would take often but there's something beautiful about watching Zeus whale on Hades while he tries to laser you to death to no avail. Especially if you get Hermes' legendary for more bloodstones
hearty elbow
I take it basically every time I see it. It provides so much value for almost no cost
quaint warren
I just never utilize the cast like I should, really
hearty elbow
I start most encounters with it by just throwing the bloodstones in different directions
And repeat when the waves take time respawn
jaunty locust
how wide is the radius they have
quaint warren
It's really big
quaint warren
I had all 5 stacked on each other at the bottom of the Hades screen, between the two ponds and they were hitting him just to the right of the north wall that blocks lasers
I need to get the Poseidon duo boons to finish the prophecy but I never like running Poseidon boons in general
The wall slam mechanic never feels like it does any significant damage
hearty elbow
Wildly depends on how hard they're being slammed. Though for the most part I agree with you.
opal lodge
its gigantic i definitely slept on lightningrod
had a scuffed poseidon sword build that used it
turbid needle
I really dislike Infernal Soul.
So I don't get the Duo from my two favorite Olympians.
opal lodge
i dislike infernal soul too but it just feels right for aspect of poseidon
turbid needle
But then I just want to spam Casts more quickly.
opal lodge
stygian soul is nice you just have to resign yourself to the fates with chaos and hermes boons
i feel like
turbid needle
True.
lofty totem
well, if anyone wants to attempt the one boon challenge, know the best way is probably chaos or zag shield with doom right click
opal lodge
or buy prometheus stones
turbid needle
But I do really like Auto Reload.
hearty elbow
Lol, in the biz, we like to call the 1 boon challenge Approval Process 2
opal lodge
i was using infernal soul for an achilles build and it dropped my bloodstone off the map lol
turbid needle
Yup, always use Stygian with Achilles.
lofty totem
not pick an option from a boon
cause theres at least 2 times per run you MUST pick up a boon
outside the first
I pick a cast or call or useless passive and sell it asap obv
but like
hearty elbow
Really? I'm pretty sure that's not accurate, it's just extremely unlikely to not get a boon in a run
quaint warren
So then how does Sisyphus' trinket work, if you have to take a boon at least twice during the run?
hearty elbow
You can get a hammer in room 1, and room 2 is always blue laurel after that.
lofty totem
like heres the thing ledger
turbid needle
Room 2 is not always a blue laurel.
lofty totem
elite rooms that offer a boon
hearty elbow
After a hammer it is
lofty totem
you cant roll off them
opal lodge
you just have to sell right
lofty totem
yea you sell whatever you pick up
if you MUST pick it up, get a call and dont use it, get a cast and dont use it, or get something like strong drink and make sure to sell it
quaint warren
That just seems dumb then cause you lose the entire point of the trinket until you hit a sell point
lofty totem
not true
just
pray to rng
cause I didnt level up an accidental boon
not even once in both runs
wait what trinket are you referring to
the sisyphus one?
I dont use that
you take blossom and just POWERLEVEL the hell out of your one boon
quaint warren
Oh ok. I think I'm reading it wrong then
You can take revenge, dash and call boons fine
lofty totem
no
you can only have one god boon
likely to be your M1 or M2
and thats the only one you can use
quaint warren
That doesn't jive with the text of the keepsake
lofty totem
you can take chaos, hammers, poms, well of charon items including enhanced versions, hearts and of course gold
quaint warren
Your Attack, Special, and Cast each deal +40/60/80% damage while not empowered by a Boon
lofty totem
trinket
not using that
Im taking the blossom
you can use your M1, M2, or cast however you like, but only one of them can have a boon
you cant have a dash, call, revenge, or other passive boons
mighty ermine
After a hammer it is
@hearty elbow not true actually. had a run earlier today which started with a hammer, and lead directly into athena boon
lofty totem
@quaint warren you havent gotten far enough to unlock blossom havent you
hearty elbow
@mighty ermine Is that rare? I don't think I've ever seen that happen before.
mighty ermine
seems like it, i pretty much never see it happen either
i had to rewatch a recording just to make sure, but it did happen, so now we know i guess lol
hearty elbow
themoreyouknow
torpid wren
Empowered Hestia. What boon is usually on attack? Guessing ones that scale more in %?
hearty elbow
Deadly or Heartbreak
torpid wren
which god is Deadly?
hearty elbow
Artemis/Aphrodite
solid portal
So do buffs to your "attack" also apply to dash attack?
hearty elbow
Yes, not visa versa
austere shadow
Would broken spearpoint and athena's deflect when getting hit boon be redundant together
hearty elbow
Sorry, that's oversimplifying it, sometimes with regards to hammers
mellow quest
somehow i knew buying an anvil of fate for the first time with sword would end up being world splitter + cursed slash
mellow quest
almost every single hit is good on the fists
hearty elbow
Lol, it only takes once on the sword to learn never to do that again :3
mellow quest
i only bought it because the run was desperate for.. anything, really
hearty elbow
I've had Anvil help me out before where nothing else could, to be fair.
mellow quest
world splitter + backstab bonus from exposed was enough to beat dad
robust anchor
in general sword hammers make me kinda sad
hearty elbow
Truth
mellow quest
but muh dash nova buff 
solid portal
Holy cow Aphrodite full gauge dmg to call!
I just nuked Thesus on accident
I was like what just happened I didn't even know her call did dmg, I just took it to complete the fated prophecy
robust anchor
i believe only the fat call does damage not the tiny one
solid portal
correct
has to be full
So how do speed runners deal with temple styx? I mean, if they guess the right chamber they are soild, if not run blown?
solid portal
what is a "seeded" run then? they only have to complete 1 chamber?
drifting vale
However if you do give up and know all the mechanics that affect rng you can get the exact same run everytime
No im like 90%certain theres a 12 room minimum
solid portal
Holy cow, I just realized I have cleared the game with every weapon except shield, which was actually the first one I thought I won with lol.
placid topaz
styx is minimum 2 chambers fyi đ
solid portal
gotcha
I absolutely love how ||Persephone|| becomes so nonchalant about Zag ||dying right in front over her|| over time lololol
forest ether
Is there a particular go-to Keepsake that is considered to be âbetterâ? I usually bounce between using Dem, Dio and Aphroâs for the first 3 followed by the Collar going into Hades, but I see a lot of people using the Tooth and the Feather?
solid portal
tooth into hades fo rextra dd
hearty elbow
The most standard setup is God > God > Coinpurse/Acorn > Acorn
hearty elbow
It's far better on average
forest ether
Yeah I can see why people would like the acorn I suppose
solid portal
but earlier on I think tooth for people trying to win first time is better
or manage a few first wins
Acorn doesn't help in temple
placid topaz
lately ive been going pom/pom/pom/acorn but im not focusing on any particular gods for those runs
solid portal
and things can go wrong
willow fossil
i love broken spearpoint
forest ether
Iâm still fairly early-game in the grand scheme of things, only gotten 2 or 3 clears so far
solid portal
drunkard
placid topaz
i used to use tooth for every section/boss i wasnt confortable with
hearty elbow
Spearpoint is a lot better than Tooth for surviving through Styx
solid portal
acorn*
willow fossil
acorn is effectively a better tooth
placid topaz
yeah spearpoint is good for styx but worse for hades i feel
solid portal
what does spearpoint do again?
woeful badge
I wish tooth was 150 (I think that used to be that value in the past)
willow fossil
after you get hit, you become impervious for a short time]
solid portal
oh yea
hearty elbow
If you take damage, once every 7 seconds, you have 1.5 seconds of invincibility I think?
solid portal
if I get hit I wont get hit again anyway
hearty elbow
It's for poison mostly
solid portal
but Ill try it
forest ether
Styx doesnât really scare me, Iâve only had 1 of my 30ish runs end there. If I get to that point I get to Hades
willow fossil
i think is extremely good for em4 tbh, especially phase one and the mini bosses
solid portal
F that poison
placid topaz
the only part of styx that scares me is that stupid tiny vermin
hes more of a gear check than hades ><
willow fossil
lol, asterius is a gear check
solid portal
OMG I have to say, this hyper X keyboard with aqua switches is SSSIIICCCKK I just want to type for no reason it feels so good. This is better than my Das.
forest ether
Rat babies donât really scare me but thats also because I pretty much main Spear
Hades Spear specifically
placid topaz
im still working my way up the heat levels so i'll have to get back to you on that @willow fossil lol
forest ether
So I almost always have a +125%dmg spin with the increased range that just cleans the whole room
willow fossil
lol, asterius is a gear check
em3 asterius i meant
forest ether
Iâll try EMs eventually but for now Iâm working up heats too, only on H2 for my Spear
placid topaz
EM1 and EM2 are pretty much freebies
placid topaz
and EM2 gives you 3 heat which is an easy double run for double rewards, lol
yeah im not looking forward to EM4 - i hear bad things ><
as in, EM1 for 1 heat then EM2 for 3 heat (but run it twice) for 3 heat worth of rewards đ or just go straight to EM2 and run it 3 times
jade rover
Anyone else notice how dashing near Lernie always give near miss?
spare flare
Is Triple Shot not compatible with Rama?
robust anchor
it is possible to get unless you already got twin shot
hearty elbow
Cursed Slash on Arthur isn't that cheesy if you don't have Hard Labor or Forced Overtime
placid topaz
should work đ
worldly trellis
@hearty elbow why is that?
hearty elbow
If you have a couple of damage mitigation sources, you can sustain reasonably well with Cursed Slash, and you have enough health to be able to survive several hits
worldly trellis
Yea but, why are Hard Labor or Forced Overtime relevant?
if its cheesy with those on then it's probably even better without them
hearty elbow
That's what I'm saying. It is cheesy with them on because you will almost certainly not be regaining enough health to make it worth it
But if they're off, you can kind of just autopilot through anything.
worldly trellis
Just found out Arthur special lets you stand in lava
is that well known already?
frigid bear
how do I get cursed slash
hearty elbow
It finds you
frigid bear
thats unfortunate
mighty ermine
@worldly trellis somewhat, yeah. a post-nighty night patch added the trap disabling functionality, which includes lava
solid portal
so how badly was Chiron nerfed?
hearty elbow
Significantly but not lethally. It's still quite good
Working on 51 heat with it, and dying from misplay vs. lack of damage, so that's a good sign.
spare flare
Was just unlucky. Finally got it.
dense coral
man, I couldn't get curse of drowning to work at all. the range is so short
spare flare
Dude, how do people even lose with Rama? It's so damned strong.
sour bramble
i feel like most of the power with chiron comes from what you put on it, not from chiron as a base. the fact the spec seeks is already abusable
still vigil
@spare flare despite it bein stronk, it's one of those aspects where you cant fire at will due to it being slower than other bow aspects. therefore ya rlly need to commit to the shot and know enemy patterns otherwise yer dps is gonna fall short
this is exacerbated by PoP which makes the margin for error much smaller
spare flare
Yeah, I guess. It's just . . . so bloody strong.
still vigil
jury summons, forced overtime, hard labor, extreme measures and benefits package off the top of my head
those modifiers if yer not careful with rama will end a run very quickly
agreed. it's just there are other aspects and weapons that do the job safer or just as well as heat rises
chiron, hestia, and eris to name a few
spare flare
I get that. I just did a 4 Heat (Jury Summons and Benefits Package) run in my sleep.
cunning urchin
Well, you just named 3 other top tier aspects, one of which is easily #1 lol.
Rama is strong.
spare flare
It was without losing any DDs, still had 93/200 health left, took down the final boss in about 1m, and my attack boon was just a common one, albeit at lv5 at the end.
Bonus points: I ended with four duo boons and one legendary. One duo was for a prophecy, then I sold it, then it was offered back to me twice more, upon which I took it.
It's just . . . so bloody much damage. I've only upgraded it to 45% sharing, too.
cunning urchin
@hearty elbow how do you feel about Rama vs Chiron? I'd think those two are the candidates for best bow right now for high heat.
hearty elbow
I think Rama is better. It's more flexible at least. Chiron struggles very hard with JS3 at very high heat, and DCx is relatively unkind since it cuts into damage that you main attack could do.
They are both pretty evidently the best bows though.
opal lodge
i have a lot of trouble with armored mobs on chiron since the nerf
hearty elbow
Yeah, I take Deadly Flourish and prioritize Hide Breaker to help. Don't forget that Boiling Blood scales very very well with Deadly Flourish too
Otherwise I haven't really run into issues with it. CP2 is pretty easy with Chiron.
opal lodge
yeah i might just suck with bow tbh
half crater
is DC a big problem on Chiron?
i usually take DC2, but i could be undervaluing the damage of my initial hit
hearty elbow
It's not at low-medium heat, but your main attack does a good amount of damage, and you just don't have access to it against most mobs
(with DCx)
Rama is reversed. You use a near zero damage special to apply a debuff to enemies, and then attack, so DC matters almost none
half crater
yeah i was wondering because i forgot to turn it on on a run yesterday and it seemed to make more of a difference than i expected it to
hearty elbow
(I take DC2 as well because it really doesn't matter as much as other pacts but you definitely feel it if you happen to get like, Deadly Strike or something)
half crater
that was only 32 tho, so i guess thatâs low-medium heat?
idk where the lines are lol
hearty elbow
I'd say 32 is candidate for high.
half crater
yeah i feel like i keep going âneat deadly strike!â on chiron and then it doesnât really do anything
cunning urchin
32 is pretty much the low end of high heat? 
hearty elbow
You definitely feel the pain of DCx (I say x because the 1 heart is really all that matters, since the Chiron arrows will shred the other one anyway)
half crater
once you have DC1 DC2 is basically free i guess
so âhigh heatâ starts like, halfway through the heats?
fair enough i guess
hearty elbow
More or less. It's still like 12.5% of your special damage, but that's not really much considering you can keep using your special repeatedly after that.
cunning urchin
I dunno. 32 feels kinda free lately. But I guess for most people it's pretty high?
hearty elbow
This is builds-and-combat so I'd box 32 as comfortably high heat. In #h1-high-heat-strategies we typically box 40+ as high heat. It also varies with weapon. E.g. I would consider Chiron up to maybe 43 as "normal high heat", but 44+ as very high heat, because at that point you have to start picking between uncomfortable options. For Exalibur I put the "very high heat" line at like, 38 lol
Give or take
cunning urchin
Yeah, 40 was just a conveniently round number lol.
half crater
makes sense
sour bramble
man...
hearty elbow
I think Chiron's damage is in a great place now. Also the number works out very well so if you want to, you can optimally do Low Tolerance builds without Relentless Volley đ
sour bramble
not going to lie, I got forced into zeus spec on achilles spear
hearty elbow
That always made me so salty when I did them before.
sour bramble
and I REALLY like it
hearty elbow
I don't think I ever end up putting anything useful on Achilles' special lol. I just use it for buffs or dashes
I am far from an expert on that aspect though, I have no idea how you're supposed to play it
spare flare
button-mashing intensifies
sour bramble
I was going to put aphro on the spear and zeus on the attack, but I had to switch it around because of my starting boon
And honestly it's kinda slapping so far
Especially with static discharge and high voltage
half crater
thunder flourish on achilles doesnât sound that great
but i just use that aspect as a hunting blades delivery system, so idk
sour bramble
I'm enjoying it so far.
It procs on everything the spear hits, plus w. jolted and the extra radius of the damage it's just a bit chunky.
wet rivet
Full zappy spear is legit
Chunked daddy hades in seconds
The fight only took like a minute in total
solid grail
Out of Aspect of Zagreus and Aspect of Hades which is better for the spear of you want the ability to build it differently all the time? Like which one works best without needing to build it a certain way?
half crater
iâm not a big spear player, but it seems like youâd wanna go attack focused on hades and special focused on zag, right?
wet rivet
I like Achilles since it's extra mobility
half crater
so iâm not sure theyâre either great options
honestly achilles might be better for versatility, yeah
like, cast builds are kinda that weaponâs thing, but it can do attack builds perfectly fine
wet rivet
Poseidon styg for cast builds
spare flare
Triple Shot, Explosive Shot, and Point-Blank Shot were in my previous run. Had Explosive Shot for most of the run.
No bother.
I just got into enemies' faces, let loose a shot without charging, and whoops, there goes 3,680 HP.
wet rivet
I want to like the bow, but I'm cursed with it
still vigil
ooo
cunning urchin
Which bow?
still vigil
i tend to take chain shot and twin shot on rama
cunning urchin
You kinda don't need more HP or Chaos Boons with bow, so that works out.
still vigil
my god the ricochet damage from that
coarse tendon
I hate the hammer that removes power shot, makes aiming so hard**
cunning urchin
Flurry Shot on pad with auto-aim is kinda urgh.
wet rivet
I like big numbers, chaos makes me do big numbers
still vigil
chaos? who dat
an emerald?
wet rivet
And health is always good since I don't go full sweat
cunning urchin
Heartbreak Strike + Deadly Flourish + Heart Rend on Chiron does big numbers.
Or just Heartbreak Strike or Deadly Strike on Rama.
Crush Shot on Hera.
still vigil
...ive never tried arty on rama attack
only poseidon and aphro
looks like i have another thing to try
cunning urchin
Deadly Strike is the most prominent pick for high-heat Rama, I'm pretty sure.
still vigil
icic
hearty elbow
It's one of the only weapons that lets you "cheat" crit chance because of the Suffering debuff. Crit is checked on each unit hit, not once per attack, so you if you hit 2 enemies, you have 2 chances to crit, and each enemy will take 60% of that crit
Lol, tbf for the last couple of days, every weapon could cheat crit chance đ
still vigil
ahhh
i was wonderin why long knuckle wasnt showin up on gilgamesh. now i know it's incompatible rip qwq
wet rivet
I'm still pissy about not getting to fight hades with the one time amazing fisticuffs build I had
still vigil
oh! does flying cutter increase demeter special dmg?
wet rivet
It should innit?
solid grail
What boons should I get for the aspect of Arthur? I really love it's Moveset and I'm doing pretty well with it but I tend to have a hard time against Theseus and Hades
cunning urchin
@still vigil yes. Flying Cutter goes up to +100% Base Damage, so it effectively doubles your damage if you hold it.
robust anchor
@solid grail i really like aphro attack. some people like art attack. either way, get athena dash next. thatâs pretty much the basic idea and you can do whatever from there
the hermes attack speed boon is great
spiral tree
I messed up a GDLK cast build
had pos cast with the double shot duo
and lightning rod
BUT
also took boon which returns cast to me fast
making rod useless
=/
and i even had the boon that makes lightning effects double n jolted
lol
still vigil
did ya pass all the pool of purging?
robust anchor
hades has a special dialogue if you reach him without any boons
still vigil
im not that good at the game yet lol
willow fossil
i love the well item where they dont even spawn
screw those things
why do they meow
hearty elbow
Lol what other noise would they make? Woof?
robust anchor
who is the VA for the hot wheels
hearty elbow
Lmao safe answer
hearty elbow
I vote the ting ting noise from a bike bell
worldly trellis
wilhelm scream
wet rivet
Btw is anyone else here a charlatan for prophecies?
I've only had one "serious" run so far which I went with what's good and not what's not unlocked on the parchment
worldly trellis
I never look at that thing unless I've completed something
if I finish one, dope
hearty elbow
The prophecies are decent for giving you a reason to play outside of your comfort zone.
worldly trellis
Personally, dark thirst is enough of a reason for me
I tend to play whatever has it that run
gotta get dem gemstones
willow fossil
i use approval process, i dont have a comfort zone
cunning urchin
who is the VA for the hot wheels
Against all expectations, it's not me.
worldly trellis
i use approval process, i dont have a comfort zone
found the psychopath
wet rivet
I only have the last mirror talents anyway and cerby got a fancy bed so I don't need gems
cunning urchin
I, too, like Approval Process a lot.
willow fossil
i cant play without it
red mist
Approval Process seems better on builds that aren't particularly needy
willow fossil
did it today to unlock aphro favor, but thats it
worldly trellis
I understand the appeal but I tend to not like handing over more control to RNG than I have to
red mist
or weapons that are strong enough to clear tartarus with few improvements
worldly trellis
The joke is only funny the first time
red mist
anyway I have an interesting choice here
worldly trellis
red mist
I'm rama bow again, and my chaos choices are +cast damage, +special damage, and +1 cast
willow fossil
i always run it, idc about buils
robust anchor
tartarus and then hades is always where i struggle most
red mist
none of these are good
cunning urchin
The obvious option is reroll.
worldly trellis
Yea I'm the polar opposite. I use olympian keepsakes regularly and abuse give up button at the start of every run
wet rivet
Just go special damage, it's always a safe bet
winged idol
doesn't zeus special hit like 3 times thanks to the cooldown? 0.3 seconds right?
red mist
oh absolutely, that's why zeus special is good on rama
but damage buffs to special only apply to the base special, not the boon
wide plover
achilles buff affects blizzard shot shards, right?
red mist
^
when did they implement that?
I saw older videos of people running zeus attack on lucifer
untold vortex
that still works
cunning urchin
The CD is only on Thunder Flourish.
red mist
so I got jolted and double strike on my zeus special
now I'm not sure if I should just skip attacking altogether
turbid needle
i mean u can if its more dmg
although special prob never beats rama attack
but if its fun
red mist
okay, forced boon sell: double strike (hell no), jolted, hypersprint
sour bramble
oh man
today i learnt that thanatos can trigger your artemis marked buff
he does like 14k damage instead of his regular 9999
red mist
oh god now I have zeus legendary
untold vortex
that marked crit from than does 29997 damage from memory
crit damage is multiplicative :3
sour bramble
it was definitely 14k or there abouts, but i dunno, crit has apparently been a bit buggy lately
untold vortex
I haven't played the most recent patch I was moreso going off what happened previously
mighty ermine
now that you mention it, it seemed like crits coming from hunter's mark specifically might have been doing less damage than normal crits on a recent run
untold vortex
either way Than does big number
mighty ermine
if i notice it again and can verify i'll f10, but i could be mistaken
cold mason
So generally speaking, what are the hammer upgrades for the fist I should be looking for?
Demeter aspect
mighty ermine
explosive upper is arguably demeter aspect's best hammer
breaching cross is also amazing, regardless of aspect
wet rivet
Long knuckle and explosive upper
cold mason
Breaching cross is as good as I thought? Figured but wasn't sure.
Long knuckle too? Huh.
untold vortex
breaching cross is arguably the best fist hammer
explosive upper is incredible on demeter
mighty ermine
Since you want as many frost stacks as possible
azure is talking about demeter aspect, not boons
untold vortex
+900% damage to armor on dash strikes is absolutely mental
cold mason
choices i got: long knuckle, concentrated knuckle, colossus knuckle rofl. rip
untold vortex
concentrated knuckle is also pretty good
mighty ermine
it's still funny how breaching cross used to be +1000% and got nerfed, but like
untold vortex
since it's base damage up
wet rivet
Ahh
mighty ermine
not in any noticeable way
cold mason
yeah that's what i'll choose just ugh
mighty ermine
because it's still amazing
wet rivet
Thought he meant dem build
cunning urchin
Not arguably. Breaching Cross is the best.
cold mason
yeah I remember when I first saw 900% I legit was like "...is that a typo?"
tranquil violet
But damage to armor is only good on mobs
If you're a scrub mostly struggling with bosses then tears
wet rivet
Mobs is more dangerous than the bosses
tranquil violet
Eventually yeah
cold mason
styx mobs hardest boss in the game imo
wet rivet
Tiny Vermin gtfo
tranquil violet
Idk whenever I get to Styx I just nuke most enemies
I haven't ever had a run when I get to Styx that I thought Styx was hard
The challenge is just preserving health
void fjord
breaching cross is so nice on the BP mobs with the extra health
cold mason
oh right
void fjord
lol
tranquil violet
Styx seems easier than Elysium overall tbh
cold mason
the plague is a nightmare if you have too much stuff on your screen happening at once lmao. there's so many explosions by the time you hit styx
mighty ermine
i find explosive upper more desirable on demeter aspect simply because of the synergy and it acting as a delete/chunk button on bosses too, as opposed to just armored foes
untold vortex
Elysium is very much a vibe check
tranquil violet
Poison effect is easily cured and far less bad that a single major hit in Elysium
mighty ermine
but breaching is better if you're not used to doing dash-uppers
cold mason
so you might not even notice you have plague and then it's like "...wait"
primal hazel
Eh depends on the encounters
cold mason
I stand by my canon theory that the reason zag ||dies|| on every run is because of the water you -have- to drink in styx, and not because of whatever rule
primal hazel
F.e if I don't have deflect sometimes a stray satyr hits me
cold mason
straight up drinks rancid water and then is like "man why did that happen so WEIRD"
primal hazel
Also tiny vermin
tranquil violet
@cold mason eh I mean the stated reason is perfectly consistent with the myths
cold mason
yeah but the myths are largely said to be bs by multiple people in the game.
Also I'm mostly kidding.
But I do think it's a funnier explanation
tranquil violet
I mean there are also several versions of many of the myths
In many Zagreus is Zeus' son
cold mason
oh is zagreus a real person in the myths? I actually wasn't sure about that
tranquil violet
Yes
cold mason
"person" you know what I mean
tranquil violet
Minor figure but he's not invented whole stock
And he is indeed generally Persephone's son
Though he's only really Hades' son in the Orphic tradition
Fun fact: Orpheus and many versions of the myths are due to the Orphic cult
Which was a splinter sect that didn't quite manage to break off but had a lot of variations on the usual myths that ended up being what we could recover.
The reality is that every god had its own sects who interpreted and wrote myths differently.
tranquil violet
What we have today is mostly due to Hesiod.
There's a lot of common ground in the dominant understanding of Greek mythology
But practically there was also a lot of variation regionally speaking
wet rivet
Greek mythology is pretty much just zeus being thirsty
tranquil violet
Traditionally gods were bestowed with epithets that indicated the nature of those who worshipped them and more
So there was Phoebus Apollo
But also other versions of Apollo
Yeah seriously Zeus
Stop turning into animals and screwing mortals
That's the major theme of Greek mythology
"Zeus can't keep it in his pants."
But Zeus was primarily a representative god of civilization.
So it makes sense.
The trend in Greek mythological figures is from a pantheon of deities representing natural forces to a pantheon representing human instincts.
Likely a reflection of earlier earth and sun worship
Gods like Apollo and Athena came about mostly later on as representatives of "dignified" city states.
Demeter likely has one of the oldest cults, as a nature mama.
But her worship diminished over time until it was revived by her combination with Hera as Hestia in Roman times
Dionysus was always popular but his adherents were too drunk to do much.
I jest , actually he was very important and Zagreus and Dionysus were considered equivalent by many.
But if you look at the transition from the "titans" go the Olympian gods it's mostly a story of the "civilized" gods usurping from their parents largely the same roles.
red mist
so I just tried out EM4 for the first time
uhh. 150 damage traps, ,what the hell
I see why sure footing is good here
tranquil violet
Just don't get hit.
red mist
indeed.
wet spindle
whats fun with malphon ( zagreus aspect)
untold vortex
EM4 is bruuutal
Zeus, as in all in zeus
Merciful End (doom attack, athena special + dash into ME)
Deadly Reversal (Athena attack, dash, arti special into DR) @wet spindle
wet rivet
Anyone here play hell mode?
I only find doom worth it if you get the boon that procs the damage with your attacks
robust anchor
i do
untold vortex
that boon is called Merciful End :3
and it procs doom whenever you hit with an ability with deflect
wet rivet
That's the one!
I had doom special on zeus shield + extra doom damage with double shield slap, deflect attack and heroic support fire
Hades hp went brrr
worn citrus
Is lambent plume affected by the pact of punishment for extra enemies?
Essentially, do I actually get a lower time/enemy with that?
robust anchor
zeus attack
worn citrus
If you go poseidon attack you can have a water hose
F.L.U.U.D.
Not particularly good tho
red mist
I take it that I'm supposed to play with aim assist off on lucifer?
aww piss I got a clones and lasers witches room
royal helm
@worn citrus Haven't tested but one run...
It seems like it is unaffected (so if you take Chaos boons that add additional enemies, it's much harder to farm the dodge)
So ... it seems like you are not given and additional time per chamber to clear it
Plume is a busted keepsake though
Head and shoulders above the others
Does chain lightning have an internal cooldown, by the way?
I know Zeus bolts have a .2 ICD
untold vortex
only Thunder Flourish has the single target ICD
winged grove
after playing Extreme measure 4 too many times|| I feel like hades need a buff on his healing and it would be nice to have cerberus attack on 3rd phase or increase attack speed of hades at 3rd phase ||
worn citrus
Can chain lightning bounce back to the same enemy several times?
cold mason
which special should I be going for with eris? Aphrodite seems like an obvious choice but idk
royal helm
I think technically Poseidon gets the most % damage? ...
But you're good getting Aphrodite, Athena, Demeter, Artemis and a few others
royal helm
mmm
royal helm
Could scale into Rupture though...
Aphrodite can scale into that +dmg to weak enemies though
onyx folio
that boon is nutthy
cold mason
oh wait i just remembered i'm running dio nvm aphrodite is the easiest choice
onyx folio
butterfingers today
privilege pog
i do have something to ask
is the backstab damage on cast duo terrible or do i just not get the point of it
i get the nyx ||keepsake|| and shadow presence synergy
it just seems hard to build around
especially since imo the best casts dont really profit off of it much
festive fog doesnt at all i dont think and its my favourite
wet rivet
Blade rift/death laser might be the best casts for it
wet rivet
Blade rift builds can be pretty bonkers
onyx folio
aphrodite and athena are kind of the only boons that are instantly strong without need for further setup really
onyx folio
yeah, i meant moreso general archetypes rather than specifics
like yeah zeus call is bonkers
trippy cast is bonkers
brisk trench
Dio has some killer generic boons
onyx folio
but the other boons they give arent op instantly imo
brisk trench
His attack boons are eh
cold mason
all the casts are great but trippy shot is heads and tails above the rest
cold mason
it can be. I like it sometimes if I don't have her on anything else. Her dash is preferable if I'm going that route tho
wet rivet
I want a full frost build with duo cast and dem call
brisk trench
I like aphro special or her attack depending on the weapon
cold mason
mirage shot on demeter's beam is pretty great, especially if you also have the one that makes it track better
brisk trench
Artemis + Demeter is crazy strong
cold mason
strong drink is which again, the well one?
brisk trench
Esp if you can get chill on cast
onyx folio
+3% bonus damage every fountain at minimum
cold mason
it's very good if you get it in tartarus
brisk trench
Though I dunno how it plays at 10+ heat
cold mason
sucks if you get it in like styx lol
onyx folio
which is guaranteed 12% free damage at common
cold mason
yep
cold mason
i wish you could disable those once bought
onyx folio
and it has no boon prerequisites
cold mason
so i can max stack plume runs lmao
untold vortex
I've had strong drink come in clutch during styx ngl
onyx folio
epic strong drink gave me over 25% damage one run
brisk trench
The one post-encounter heal boon from dio has been my fav
cold mason
"sucks" is probably unfair, but I just meant it's definitely not at its best if you get it in styx vs getting it in tartarus
onyx folio
personally i feel i never stay under 30% hp
brisk trench
If you can combine it with his DR boon its just kinda nuts
cold mason
high tolerance baybee
untold vortex
getting strong drink offered past the styx fountain definitely feels bad though
spare flare
Am I missing something, or is Auto Reload just always sucky?
cold mason
15% damage resist bonus in my perpetually thrown trippy cast
onyx folio
healing through darkness drops is too good
spare flare
Even as an epic, it doesn't even save a full second.
wet rivet
Aphro +maxhp, wino fountain, Athena dash
brisk trench
I kinda hate the darkness healing
wet rivet
cold mason
@spare flare it's fine if you have nothing else to get imo. and the epic one is alright, it's like .8 or whatever
wet rivet
Darkness healing is great imo
cold mason
darkness healing >>>>> 3hp per room or whatever
spare flare
0.74s.
onyx folio
auto reload can give you greater recall so its good
cold mason
also that.
brisk trench
Ive never found it to heal more hp consistently but maybe thats just my difficulty level
Except maybe after T&M
onyx folio
when youre good on common resources its basically just "heal huge amounts for free" whenever you get the choice between resource ones
cold mason
getting the +1 casts from chaos on trippy cast runs is always a good feeling
brisk trench
13 hp from darkness rooms never seemed better than 3 every room.
onyx folio
it can be way more than that tho
cold mason
and it -is- way more from that post bosses if you have the bounty
onyx folio
also works well with chaos boons and oceans bounty
cold mason
also that yeah
brisk trench
Sure but the fountain already heals 40% and that should have you set up for the next floor pretty regularly
onyx folio
you essentially guarantee youll be at full hp after a boss if you combine it with fountain
cold mason
if 40% is already enough for you, then you don't need the +3 either :P
the +3 is good for styx but otherwise, eh
onyx folio
^
fax
free damage and full heals > everything else
only thing its really worse than is athena dash and maybe urge to kill
cold mason
athena dash is that loved, eh?
brisk trench
I feel like I get chipped to death more often than bursted ig
onyx folio
in terms of single boons with no needed synergy
sour bramble
oh god i can't post pictures
brisk trench
Athena dash is hot imo
onyx folio
athena dash is the best non legend/duo boon in the game and even then its close
absolutely zero debate
brisk trench
Tru
sour bramble
is that a channel thing or a me thing
cold mason
True. It's p damn good.
I can never decide which attack buff to take on fists
channel thing i think polite
brisk trench
Chill
onyx folio
you can post pics through imgur and other image hosting websites
or just links in general
brisk trench
Chill is my pref spice on fists
cold mason
yeah that's what i lean towards
onyx folio
doom is best for fist attack imo
cold mason
you think? how come?
onyx folio
constant reapplying with no downtime
brisk trench
I guess it triggers fast enough
onyx folio
and dire misfortune
cold mason
should i try to get the stack increase damage one then?
brisk trench
And if you ccan get merciful end its just over
wet rivet
Doom is too reliant on other boons
brisk trench
Lighting is also pretty good on fists
cold mason
ok can someone explain the appeal of merciful end to me i feel like i'm missing something
onyx folio
its disgusting
wet rivet
^
brisk trench
It makes you go zooooom
cold mason
Ok but like why. Also does it decrease dooms damage? I canât tell what the 40 means
brisk trench
Its REALLY bad if you cant make use of it
sour bramble
well
brisk trench
But REALLY good if you can apply doom consistantly
wet rivet
Shekel swing is fun
onyx folio
i do that every run lol
brisk trench
The 40 is the extra damage the doom proc will do @cold mason
onyx folio
i have 500 at least when i beat elysium
wet rivet
I never do it unless I have a hoarder build
cold mason
@brisk trench my point was more is that 40 on top of the doom damages regular amount or 40 period
untold vortex
it's on top
onyx folio
^^
cold mason
Cool
onyx folio
so with poms stacked like hell youre doing like 250+ damage every proc instantly as well as 40 damage each time
with specific aspects its gg
does chaos shield still do the thing
untold vortex
or any fist aspect that exists
onyx folio
or that
brisk trench
Oh yeah Ive been meaning to ask, is unlocked the hidden aspects for the weapons just "play and win" or do I have to fulfill specific conditions?
untold vortex
the requirements for 4th aspects are pinned in #h1-story-discussion
cold mason
but the tl;dr is 5 blood in the weapon + something else
untold vortex
not for ||Guan Yu||
cold mason
is that one diff? my bad
brisk trench
I dont wanna go in there, I havent given juice to all my friends
Oh is that Spear 4?
untold vortex
untold vortex
that should take you to the pinned message for unlocking 4th aspects
austere python
Does Swift Strike from Hermes affect charge time of Bull Rush and Spear's Charged Attack?
untold vortex
no worries ^_^
austere python
anyone here who knows? T_T
brisk trench
Ooooh thats really cool actually
I... think so?
It affects bow charge time I think?
austere python
okay thx
brisk trench
Can anyone tell me if I just lied to this man?
cunning urchin
It affects charge time, yes.
winged idol
so there's a cap on how much doom can stack, I kept hitting a ceiling of 333. Also learned that hugging the final boss, all three beams of triple beam hit him
sour bramble
okay. decent build. 5 dashes. 3 DDs. fists. who wants to bet I choke on hades again lmao
dark quail
What boons do you pick with aspect of rama?
sour bramble
nevermind, I think I learnt his attack pattern
download complete
it's time for the real game to begin
dark quail
What are some of the best choices?
cunning urchin
Deadly Strike or Heartbreak Strike.
bright zodiac
Is there some sort of special conditions/trick to getting Chain Skewer for the spear? I'm on 55 escapes of 103 runs and still not seen it. It's the only weapon upgrade I've yet to get and I really wanna try it out!
cunning urchin
Drunken Flourish or Thunder Flourish.
For Rama.
@bright zodiac it doesn't show up if you have Exploding Launcher or if you use Achilles or Guan Yu.
bright zodiac
Ah I have been running Achilles for most of the runs, I tried a few runs with Zagreus Aspect last night though and still didn't see it. Guess I'll keep trying!
cunning urchin
Good luck!
worthy dirge
Is the Aspect of Lucifer Exagryph bad or is it just me? I was excited for it, but it just didn't feel strong at all
red mist
it's pretty bad
the laser and bombs are a neat, if hard to learn, sidegrade
compared to zag aspect
the problem is that eris aspect exists
why take a sidegrade when you can just deal 75% more damage
worthy dirge
When I read about it, it sounded like a flamethrower
analog sail
Lucifer is very wierd, but the ramping damage can be worth it with some help
there is no saving that special though, unless you go Athena and strategize
Remember you can also retain the ramp while dashing
worthy dirge
If I miss the beam for just a moment, does it already reset the ramp up?
analog sail
I think so, but you lock onto enemies so you have to manually change targets to do that
worthy dirge
dashing some times messes up the lock to me
worn citrus
Do you lock even with aim assist off?
analog sail
I don't know, I always play with controller so I kinda need AA
worthy dirge
does pc have aim assist?
worn citrus
Yes, but you can choose to turn it off
worn citrus
How does Hestia compare to Eris? I've run Hestia for a bit but I'm just not getting it, I guess.
It's strong but reloading all the time is damn annoying
red mist
I think "deal 75% more damage" is all the persuasion needed
robust anchor
yes
just try em both and decide for yourself they are equally good
speedrun meta is eris
worn citrus
I ain't drowning in titan blood over here!
red mist
I play eris on controller with aim assist
wide plover
if you find hestia's constant reloads annoying, play something else
red mist
I find it tricky to self-buff, I always need to chase my specials instead of putting it on myself
worn citrus
What do you typically build on Eris? Zeus?
worn citrus
Yeah, I've found the same
red mist
zeus scales better. in fact, way better as you take more zeus boons.
you can take like 6 zeus boons that will all help you out
it's tons of value
worn citrus
I used to go Dio frequently, but once you stack hangover it doesn't feel as "important" to keep attacking.
But it's probably better for survivability. Can focus on dodging.
red mist
dio's better on something like rama that doesn't spam special but is multihit
but even rama takes zeus special because the upgrades are just so good
worthy dirge
what's rama?
wide plover
4th bow
red mist
hold up, when I go for ME on fists, which attack/special goes where?
ares special athena attack, I'm guessing?
wide plover
doom attack, athena special
red mist
oh
robust anchor
ares attack always athena special always
red mist
why's that?
robust anchor
athena dash always
wide plover
special is slow, so you want to switch to dash attacks
robust anchor
dash attack through the guy
it quickly applies doom then the dash procs it
and repeat
red mist
I start with ares keepsake?
twilit veldt
has anyone ever asked the devs for a "speedrun mode" where the satyr sack always spawns in teh 2nd labyrinth?
room
red mist
you never ever special just dash attack
@robust anchor what's the deal with running demeter then lol
robust anchor
no but ask the mod server
because its faster
i said earlier it almost doesnt matter but people just use deme fist
the damage nuke is nice thats all
red mist
do I start with ares keepsake?
solid cairn
Question: You can't get Smouldering Air while you have ||Dad Keepsake||
Result: Confirmed
Explanation: You can't get Smouldering Air while you have ||dad keepsake|| equipped. However, you can get Smouldering Air, sell your call and then equip dad keepsake. In that case, Smouldering Air works entirely normally. TIL
red mist
surely it matters for doing tartarus fast
solid cairn
is this merciful end?
red mist
yep
robust anchor
its the same either way
solid cairn
ares first
wide plover
bablo's video? where can I find it?
solid cairn
red mist
you know it's good when it's hosted on speedrun.com
robust anchor
notice how he dash attacks through the guy to apply doom and ofc the dash instantly procs it
yes its pre ME nerf kekw
solid cairn
that same thing happened to deadly reversal
solid cairn
yeah that came out of nowhere
robust anchor
didnt they say they offset the volley nerf by adding more arrows to the chiron special
solid cairn
yes but I think it's still a net loss
stuck bobcat
that's 25% dps loss
unkempt pagoda
theyâre both casters
poseidonâs strength is very quick retrieval, achilles canât retrieve but has a very powerful boost instead
so poseidon likes to build on lodging casts so it can quickly machine gun, achilles likes non-lodging casts so you donât worry about retrieval (zeus also works, bc it doesnât lodge easily and has massive cc)
stuck bobcat
poseidon is all about Exit Wounds
unkempt pagoda
but really, at the end of the day, any cast can be good on either
stuck bobcat
like on all builds, there are good and better options
cunning urchin
Nah, Achilles should be great with lodging casts, too.
stuck bobcat
I tend to go with Blizzard Shot on Achilles.
One it melts - multihit
Two you get your ammo right back after cast, no more hunting for Stygian Soul specific boons
cunning urchin
Achilles has +100% over Poseidon Aspect.
That means 3 Achilles casts will kill more reliably.
So you can just pick them back up.
I think Poseidon Aspect really needs Exit Wounds to pull even.
Except maybe in boss fights.
gilded nymph
also what secondary do you guys run with GY? like what attack/cast with poseidon special
stuck bobcat
I think poseidon is on top, when played right.
But that's very technical weapon to me (i kinda suck at it)
cunning urchin
But Achilles has a much safer Attack and Special range for boss fights.
stuck bobcat
Beowulf is best cast weapon sic.
cunning urchin
And you can use the Raging Rush as an extra dash.
gilded nymph
happens when you give something global damage
cunning urchin
The only problem is there's no point in casting with Eris lol.
forest goblet
What do you all think of ares boons (I personally like them)
stuck bobcat
cast sucks D after nerf (you realy need high investment to make it reliable)
doom is cool
damage boosts also fine
icy parrot
Pretty mid unless you specifically build for them in which case they're bonkers fun
I hate blade dash usually, I'd rather take anything else. But then the other day I thought "Can I spam those and make'em big?" So I took gilgamesh for a spin and set out to gather all the blade rift boons I could
Also got +3 dashes from hermes
It was awesome
sour bramble
Ares is kinda weird in my opinion, his active boons need specific weapons or builds to work on, but his passive boons you can take on literally anything and it'll be strong. Especially his Attack/Spec/Cast % buff.
red mist
finally assembled merciful end
this is broken
it's like you're not playing your weapon anymore
stuck bobcat
ME on gilgamesh is beyond broken
sour bramble
Yeah, that's nutty broken.
I'm tempted to try a Merciful End Nemesis build with Ares spec and Athena attack.
Or the other way around, not sure yet.
stuck bobcat
take doom on attack, athena special/cast (you need it for duo), divine dash
hold attack and dash -> melt everything
red mist
hey
so I have hyper sprint
and I was offered rush delivery
unsure if I should take this or reroll for extra dashes
this is on ME
sour bramble
I'm thinking Ares/Athena on att/spec, Zeus call, probably Zeus cast because Jolted is just a bit good, divine dash.
Nemesis sword
red mist
hello?
stuck bobcat
deppends if you are speedruning or not prinny
red mist
rush delivery basically gives me +75% damage right after I dash
does this apply to ME dash spam?
it should
sour bramble
but I never take the mirror slot that lets me reroll boons because fated is more robust in my opinion
stuck bobcat
Doom isn't affected by +% boons i think
only by status specyfic ones
sour bramble
so if I see something strong I just take it
solid cairn
but especially after authority got nerfed, persuasion is way better in my opinion
sour bramble
i mean, I already have 3 dots in authority so i'm gonna be using authority
red mist
how did authority get nerfed?
red mist
that's not a big nerf
solid cairn
yes but I thought persuasion was better already
red mist
but I guess you can't use it to force an event room as reliably now
sour bramble
that's really not that bad, i only have 3 charges base and with the key buff I usually end up having rolls left over by styx