Not like I ever personally bothered testing it.
#h1-builds-and-combat
spare flare
And doom . . . all damage buffs, right?
solid hazel
I'm pretty sure thats all correct... I remember running Arthur with hoarding slash and like 12k obols before I knew about it
And even my mental math calculations could tell something wasn't right
solid hazel
Sorry 1.2 haha
solid hazel
Depends if you're European or not haha
primal hazel
Ik but it's about what most get ig
solid hazel
What's ig?
primal hazel
I guess
solid hazel
Oh ehh Americans should get more used to tolerating other things
It seems to be lacking
solid hazel
What are you talking about? The acre is the perfect measure
It's a chain by a furlough which is how much a yoke of oxen can plough in a day
Simplest thing ever
solid hazel
Well I actually kinda like that the foot is base 12 instead of base 10
solid hazel
But I mean its not like everything in imperial follows that so still kinda dumb
cunning urchin
I only do lengths in Lunar distances.
solid hazel
Aus?
primal hazel
No that would be solar
ocean crown
Finally have access to more titan blood, any suggestions where to start putting it? Tempted to go for hidden sword
solid hazel
Hidden sword is fun
cunning urchin
Thats's a good choice, yeah.
solid hazel
Don't recommend more than 1 lvl of hera until you've got plenty of titans blood though
void fjord
@ocean crown a thing u can do is put blood in something see how it is then quit the game in the yard
spare flare
Okay, this should finally be all of it. Don't mean yo clutter the channel, bit this is a good way to confirm.
Damage talk:
Most things are additive.
Critical hits apply a multiplier. By default, it's 3.
Clean Kill is additive with the crit multiplier, e.g. +22% = a 3.22 factor.
Heart Rend is a multiplier on the crit coefficient, so 4.5 by default, or 4.83 with the 22% Clean Kill example.
Hammer boons that affect charging functions are modifiers of base damage. Like all other forms of base damage adjustment, that makes them effectively multiplicative.
Things that say "bonus damage," of course, mean exactly that: They deal their own damage as an on-hit effect, so they don't scale with anything. Hoarding Slash is currently the only example, so it's way weak.
Additional attacks, such as Support Fire, Zeus boon bolts, or Ares doom effects, scale with effects that modify any kind of damage (like some keepsakes, Blood Frenzy, and Billowing Strength), not with things that affect their sources. A Chaos Flourish boon, for example, would affect your special's base damage, not the doom from Curse of Pain.
solid hazel
Hera runs fine at lvl 1 if you use stygian soul instead of infernal
hearty elbow
Friendship with Chiron has ended.
void fjord
F
void fjord
It got damage reduced
hearty elbow
It was, I'm meming
cunning urchin
Hidden sword has a reach of approximately 1.56e-8 LD, so I would recommend it.
limber flax
okay good
hearty elbow
It also doesn't specify the degree of damage change
hearty elbow
Whereas in test branch, they said they specifically reduced the damage to pre-1.0
tidal edge
chiron bow saved ๐
hearty elbow
Lol we don't know yet, someone boot up the game :3. I can't atm
opal lodge
if im in the middle of a run does it affect that run
hmmm
guess im boutta find out lol
cunning urchin
- Huge Catch (Poseidon): Conch Shell Keepsake now works as a prerequisite for this to be offered
That's pretty cool.
opal lodge
ultra huge catch
hearty elbow
That is pretty cool
orchid marlin
Aspect of Demeter buffed 
orchid wasp
best special boon for chaos shield?
limber flax
you know the chrion thing confuses me
tidal edge
@orchid marlin I think it's just talos that was buffed
untold iris
ye
hearty elbow
Charged Volley is VERY strong in 1.0
untold iris
you can shotgun enemies with it
limber flax
ah okay
hearty elbow
You don't play like a bow anymore, but yeah
untold iris
get close and press special, then dash away
cinder flower
did they just buff chrion bow?
untold iris
they get hit with all the arrows and die
empty prairie
Ugh. 2 losses in a row. :(
hearty elbow
I think they probably slightly nerfed it
opal lodge
best special boon for chaos shield?
@orchid wasp i like ares shield
just special the room
limber flax
slight nerf is alright i think
opal lodge
everyone dies to doom
limber flax
its easy to play
untold iris
chiron is better for single target damage obviously
cinder flower
more arrorws means better scaling with boons though?
hearty elbow
I'm fine with slight nerf. 33% from test branch was OP though
untold iris
but regular bow also had pretty good single target if you were close
hearty elbow
more arrorws means better scaling with boons though?
@cinder flower Only very few things, like Dire Misfortune. In practice it's just to offset the base damage decrease.
It scales * significantly* better with Concentrated Volley now though
opal lodge
i didnt see anything about demeter how did they buff it?
limber flax
me neither
orchid marlin
Oh yesh I meant talos my b
limber flax
okay
opal lodge
ah sad
untold iris
It scales * significantly* better with Concentrated Volley now though
scales worse with the +arrow hammer though
since the extra arrows deal less damage
hearty elbow
Correct.
unkempt scroll
... Did Elysium just get harder??
limber flax
wdym
unkempt scroll
Is... that the ones with the counter?
spare flare
How is the Rama curse calculated?
limber flax
is trial the room with two gods?
thorny dirge
elysium two boon rooms were free af last patch
unkempt scroll
Ohhh, those. Okay
hearty elbow
Multiplicatively, with the multiplicative bonus being additive with each enemy hit
unborn pebble
Quick question, whichever thing is it that sometimes gives you a free +1 pom lvl up on a random Boon?
primal hazel
Yes two gods
hearty elbow
E.g., hit 2 targets with Suffering with 1 attack, each will take 1.2x the attack damage as an additional damage source
unkempt scroll
Keepsake? Persephone's
untold iris
i really hate the elysium two boon rooms that spawn shield bros though
they take so long to kill that I take a bunch of damage from the god attacking me
unkempt scroll
I hate just about everything in Elysium...
reef galleon
spare flare
So, at max upgrade, each affected target takes 60% of all damage that you inflict with basic and dash attacks?
cunning urchin
Lifesteal isn't affected by anything, yeah.
hearty elbow
Right
spare flare
30% at base rank.
cunning urchin
Same applies to Guan Yu's spin.
unkempt scroll
There is a upgrade-thing, that gives you a random boon lvl, when you pick up a nectar
cunning urchin
They also aren't affected by Lasting Consequences.
unkempt scroll
I think it cost either 3 or 4 diamonds...
cunning urchin
Draining Cutter, though, is affected.
spare flare
Wait, what?
unborn pebble
Thank you, @unkempt scroll , I had gotten that far but not the possibility to offer her a nectar yet.
unkempt scroll
๐
plain violet
:worry:
hearty elbow
Unclear until I see damage changes
spare flare
It's the "Nectar, Vintage" option from the house contractor, @unborn pebble.
unborn pebble
@spare flare I have that one, but there was no nectars involved so...
spare flare
Yeah, there is. You get a random power-up whenever you pick up a nectar mid-run.
cunning urchin
Chiron has 8 arrows now at Lv.5.
plain violet
is that good or bad though since they deal less damage?
cunning urchin
10 damage per Volley arrow for a max of 80.
spare flare
Yeah, that's separate.
unkempt scroll
And it was that he was asking about, I think
jade rover
That's a ton
drifting zodiac
oof
solid hazel
Slightly better for Dio special with low tolerance... All 8 stacks of hangover in one volley
spare flare
So, is Chiron better than Rama?
plain violet
zeus specials have timer on them procing I thought
or boons I mean
for the lightning procs
jade rover
I doubt it, they wouldn't have changed how long the special is
unkempt scroll
Zeus doesn't have timer on lightning... do they?
jade rover
if they increased the time to fire, it would just kill the weapon
hearty elbow
So, is Chiron better than Rama?
@spare flare It was doubtful before, but it's a lot less likely now lol
spare flare
Okay, I'm cool with that.
solid hazel
@jade rover its not how long the animation special takes that determines if tf hits more, it's how long it takes for all the arrows to hit
unkempt zephyr
lol) my build for chiron was buffed)
solid hazel
But yeah I'm really just joking around. It's kinda irrelevant cuz tf is still gonna be bad
jade rover
Yeah, @solid hazel, but It makes the most sense that they would space out the arrows in the same amount of time and just make them hit closer together
oh hey, free diamonds
solid hazel
I mean It depends how they program it...
jade rover
I just spent all mine on my badge 
unkempt scroll
Watching a "let's play" of Hades... I just realized the very first room is basically a tutorial: empty
hearty elbow
The theme is very sick though
jade rover
I mean, I need it, considering.
solid hazel
Yeah just reset your talents and use that to buy it
unkempt scroll
25k? Dang. The most expensive I've bought is the ||portal upgrade|| for ||Nyx||
solid hazel
Who needs talents... Makes RI trivial
primal hazel
I just hope chiron still is powerful enough
hearty elbow
remembers old Fated prices This is fine.
primal hazel
Would be heartbreaking to have a fav weapon cracked
hearty elbow
I don't think it will make much of a difference until you get to very high heat. Chiron still plays exactly as smoothly as it has since 1.0
onyx parcel
Builds for hestia?
jaunty locust
it's only the first attack right?
oh but it IS big right right
how does that change with the shotgun one?
solid hazel
Shotgun still gives base damage incr... But it seems not that good compared to hestia damagd
Shotgun basically gives +30,hestia gives +150
Probably not worth the reduced range
solid hazel
Yeah that's what I'm talking about
jaunty locust
it'd be better to get ricoochet or the explodo-one
solid hazel
You're right... That just doesn't seem to be nearly as good in hestia compared to in other aspects
jade rover
Does heat effect darkness gain?
jaunty locust
first off: the "Doom combo damage" is "extra damage" the combo does?
uhhh no I dont' think so Chaos
solid hazel
No heat doesn't effect darkness
jade rover
๐ it's 20000, I'll have it in no time.
spare flare
Yeah, Squeeq.
solid hazel
Heat 0 runs with conch shell is for ocean bounry probably beat bet
jaunty locust
second... if I'm using Athena dash and I'm up in everybody's grill anyway, is it better to be using multiple dashes to dash-strike and apply the merciful end l ike hotcakes
or do I want RUTHLESS reflex so they do more?
solid hazel
you can get huge catch now and snag the occasional fish in chaos too
spare flare
I still can't get perfect catches.
onyx parcel
Do I just not take damage control on hestia?
jaunty locust
there's such things as PERFECT catches?
spare flare
The tech support team doesn't acknowledge this.
jade rover
New theme.
untold iris
i feel like ruthless reflex is a trap unless you're literally a god at the game
onyx parcel
Seems bad to just give up on an easy condition like that
untold iris
having only one dash is really painful
jaunty locust
I mean, I have the Athena dash, so I'm already doing..... o-kay
but you're right. Idk if I can get more dashes with the hermes boon
solid hazel
Or you run gilgamesh, which comes with 2 dashes anyway
graceful perch
I got merciful end right before I just died to poison ๐ญ
solid hazel
But yeah mostly people don't run ruthless reflex
untold iris
i dont feel like I start getting diminishing returns from extra dashes until I have 3+
before 3 dashes, each dash is so valuable
graceful perch
I may have been building towards that boon too much lol
solid hazel
I forget I have more than 2 usually...
Hand is programmed to press dash twice and that's it hHa
But I dunno 3 dashes with ruthless seems better than 4 dashes by a lot...
graceful perch
I run with one dash always just cuz I don't want to get used to having multiple and then when I try and run it with only one dash I take more damage than I ought to
solid hazel
Ruthless is a huge bonus when proced
jaunty locust
Okay, so... I'm starting to think it through. How much is a rare tier boon actually worth, vs. just not getting a ton of rooms wher eyour options are like gem or key
junior harbor
How exactly does fiery presence work? Is having any amount of armor considered to be Undamaged?
junior harbor
rip
solid hazel
Wow why they hate fiery presence?
cloud barn
it's pretty high
spare flare
It's just for silly one-shot tricks, not for anything practical.
solid hazel
Uhh it is when you build it with deadly flourish and heart rend
cloud barn
even with no boon on zagreus aspect, IE no outside buffs, it can do a ton of damage
still vigil
follow up question: so does fiery presence take into account damage control?
gilded nymph
how do you guys decide between a hammer or 2 boons (challenge of gods)
solid hazel
Not many other things doing 80 damage at a range on one button press
jaunty locust
GOSH I'm getting bad boon luck
subtle thunder
@gilded nymph i dont, i take the hammer always
gilded nymph
even if its 2 desired boons?
subtle thunder
usually the damage increases i find from hammers are way better than anything else
cloud barn
so that's even worse than i thought it was
gilded nymph
ok cool thanks
unreal bolt
For me it really depends on the situation
subtle thunder
but if you experience differently then by all means
wanton delta
subtle thunder
i find hammers are top priority
unreal bolt
Perhaps Iโm not experienced enough but idk
jaunty locust
you wouldn't
subtle thunder
@solid hazel yeah but balancing something around a duo boon is pretty silly
cloud barn
i find that top priority is a misleading term because the things you already have along with personal biases dictate your choices
subtle thunder
considering how rare that is
solid hazel
@cloud barn unless I'm mistaken zag aspect only crits on attack not special
solid hazel
@subtle thunder...look I'm not the one that nerfed it. Just the messanger
subtle thunder
i know that
solid hazel
And also it's not that rare to get a specific duo boon if you are aiming for it in intermediate to high level play
subtle thunder
i'm just saying that balancing something because it's very strong with one super specific build that requires a duo boon would be sorta silly
it's also likely i'm just bad with the bow
and maybe it was stronger than i thought
cloud barn
post-patch a point blank volley does around 135 from behind, as backstab is inconsistent
so pre-patch i can see how the damage was too high
jaunty locust
yeah it's a lot
subtle thunder
i feel like point blank volley should do high damage as it's kinda high risk, you have to be very close and there's the animation time
jaunty locust
and it'll full stack hangover, have good chance of getting a crit if you have artemis on it, and because it's multiple hits it'll pierce through armor
subtle thunder
should be high risk/reward
drifting zodiac
how big was the nerf?
solid hazel
Nobody knows until people play it @drifting zodiac
subtle thunder
i think it was 15 per arrow before
solid hazel
But it sounds like less of a nerf than expected
winged grove
Bruh apro cast with hera aspect is finally good
cloud barn
it was good before, i think they just fine-tuned it
solid hazel
Is it fully fixed? Was still janky hit box when I played 2 days ago
cloud barn
last time i tried it, before this patch, it worked as intended
jaunty locust
...if I already have an athena boon, and I switch from ares to athena trinket, does that force a second athena boon?
solid hazel
I still missed like maybe 30% of time
cloud barn
the cast or the arrow 
winged grove
guess I never bother because whole thing was bad af before 1.0
solid hazel
The cast haha
jade rover
Hm. Chiron does sorta feel bad. Maybe it's in my head but like, I got pretty lucky and am still doing mediocre damage
jaunty locust
how high levelled is it? It needs a lot of levels
jade rover
maxed
winged grove
Its base damage went from 103 to 85 (front)
cloud barn
what boon do you have on special
jade rover
and I got concentrated volley too
jaunty locust
my understanding ist hat it's mostly consistency - you don't ned to worry about positioning yoursel foffensively
unkempt zephyr
befor total was 105. now 80
jade rover
purple Poseidon, not amazing but not horrible
jade rover
right, I know that, but I'm only in tartarus
thorny dirge
wait doesn't bow special now do 12 per arrow
jaunty locust
he does? His base is pretty good though.
thorny dirge
am i nuts
jade rover
It's very early to have these things, and I'm not feeling it. It'll only get worse.
limber flax
so
cloud barn
it isnt, his base is 30%
limber flax
did you guys play
winged grove
Well crit dmg is still not nerfed so chiron with arti still going to be op anyway
cloud barn
artemis is 20%
onyx parcel
Hestia is so fun wtf
jaunty locust
70 for special
limber flax
so chiron still good?
jaunty locust
aphrodite is 50 and 80, he gets a bigger jump
thorny dirge
so 105 > 96 on chiron special (no backstab)
solid hazel
I think he's talking about special and you talking about attack @SirPikaPika
limber flax
so about 10% nerf?
jade rover
his base is 70%
untold iris
is chiron 12 or 10?
untold iris
I kept hearing 10
untold iris
is regular bow also 12?
cloud barn
though
winged grove
Did they nerfed every single bow's special or just chiron?
untold iris
all bow specials got hit
winged grove
Rest in pepperoni our bow bois
thorny dirge
oh
winged grove
It was good time
untold iris
but they added an extra arrow to chiron
solid hazel
But charged volley got buff for all aspects other than chiron
winged grove
Time to use special for debuffing xd
drifting zodiac
85/8 hits is 10.62, thats about a 33% nerf for chiron.....
solid hazel
Still good for doom and hangover
limber flax
33% ????
winged grove
Debuffing my kek
primal hazel
Doom?
limber flax
didnt they adjust it
untold iris
its a 25% nerf for chiron
hearty elbow
It's 25% now yes
limber flax
:O
jaunty locust
is there a known glitch with Zagreus ice-skating?
limber flax
bruh
primal hazel
More hits but less dmg
untold iris
105 damage pre patch to 80 damage post patch
solid hazel
Are you still on speaking terms with chiron @hearty elbow
winged grove
They should have just nerfed chiron special lol why nerf other bow special?
Makes no sense
jade rover
oh we poppin off now, I got sea storm
untold iris
you can shotgun other bow specials too
hearty elbow
Are you still on speaking terms with chiron @hearty elbow
@solid hazel We're in counseling
untold iris
if you get close to an enemy and hit with all the arrows
solid hazel
Lol
untold iris
its a lot of damage
thorny dirge
right i have high confidence, it's 10 per.... ouch
cloud barn
the reason i dont like putting debuffing on chiron special because as soon as i get dionysus special I get relentless volley soon after
and like
:|
jaunty locust
(I forget what relentless volley does)
untold iris
i like aphrodite special the most with chiron
untold iris
get aphrodite special, get a second status on attack, work towards getting the other stuff that affects weak
cloud barn
at least it's a purple so i can get some money when i purge it
jaunty locust
can I post a link here? I'm not sure if this is a known glitch or not, and i don't wanna annoy the test branch if it isn't
torpid wren
hmmm. Chiron still feels pretty unga to me
cloud barn
then dont use it
torpid wren
huh
jaunty locust
sorry, Akimaye means Unga as in like, powerful and direct
jaunty locust
fighting game term, basically means rushdown haha
untold iris
unga bunga
jaunty locust
you can go caveman style on 'em
untold iris
so easy a caveman can do it
jaunty locust
I mean, the tradeoff for Chiron is that once you tag someone you can just go wherever and keep slapping them about
sly night
what casts are particularly strong when scaled? Im using posideon aspect sword\
limber flax
unga means strong and really easy
cloud barn
i know unga bunga, i just interpreted it as a bit underwhelming
jaunty locust
multiple hits don't quite work for the ZEUS special, but do they work for the supporting fire?
torpid wren
yeah. i can still like turn off my brain and play with it. which isn't a bad thing
limber flax
what aspect is most ๐ง ?
cloud barn
hm
maybe the hidden rail aspect, because you can set traps?
but you can also just laser
cloud barn
hm
i just finished tartarus and sold my dio special, should I take the rose to try and get aphro special, in the process locking pom blossom off for the rest of the run, or just hope i get aphro and keep pom blossom?
I'm leaning towards keeping pom blossom
i have an aphro passive so she should show up
gilded nymph
holy, I just got +3 dashes for the first time
I need to rebind my dash key to ever use this lol
bright flint
hermes legendary with stygian says that deals more dmg to enemy without cast in them
gilded nymph
my pinky finger can't spam shift fast enough
cloud barn
yes
bright flint
then does it means ares cast will always deal bonus dmg?
bright flint
gotcha
cloud barn
veri good combo
jaunty locust
oh that's fun
mellow quest
I just had a scintillating feast jolted hangover blackout hera bow run by Asphodel but hard froze in the new patch
Run lost
bright flint
also to get the duo boon fate list ares/artemis
mellow quest
PepeHands moment
jaunty locust
please.... please just give me divine dash... I have merciful end... I have heroic ares attack on my fists.... please....
drifting vale
I see a lot of people saying bow special does 10 damage but for some reason it does 12 for me where would the extra 20% be coming from that
thorny dirge
high confidence maybe
mellow quest
High confidence takes effect in the training room doesn't it
drifting vale
high confidence yeah forgot about that
mighty aurora
Question: So I mostly play arthur right, how do I adapt to using other weapons?
I can easily do 30 heat with EM3 with arthur but struggle with everything else
What do
stuck bobcat
Evade
limber flax
bruh what
drifting vale
practice dash strikes with other sword aspects or fists
mighty aurora
I can also use Beowulf p well
stuck bobcat
xD
limber flax
is that story content that i only have one choice and its huge catch?=
mighty aurora
So I can do heavy DPS slow attack builds but not, anything else
drifting vale
Huge Catch as a first boon is scripted once
limber flax
i see
drifting vale
@mighty aurora another build you can practice a run with thatll get you ready is Lucifer Zeus Attack
mighty aurora
Thats good because I just got lucifer unlocked
drifting vale
or a Dio build on really anything will get you used small but meaningful ticks of damage
cunning urchin
The secret to gitting gud with other aspects is to practice with other aspects. 
Practice, practice, practice.
mighty aurora
That is very fair
drifting zodiac
oh damn, does zues attack proc constantly on luci beam?
mighty aurora
Oh I had a great zeus build on spear with the triple dash attack
jaunty locust
ooh time to see if explosive upper works with divine flourish to make a massive AOE reflecto-blast
cloud barn
:O
white wind
are there any places with builds spelled out?
cloud barn
sniper shot is useable now
spare flare
So, Eris is the strongest of all, and right now, Lucifer is only about as good as Hestia, yeah?
stuck bobcat
I think that Beo and Arthur are worst starting weapons. People are getting so much wrong muscle memory from them. Basicly you can facetank and laugh at enemy damage, plus combos are realy slow to pull off - forgiving with having high dps.
I would say - try with bow. It's middle ground @mighty aurora
mighty aurora
Thanks for the tip
I'll take a breat from Arthur rn try other things
I have had a lotta luck with Aspect of Hades too
gilded nymph
is aspect of rama any good? I've never tried it
spare flare
@white wind I asked some more specific questions above.
cunning urchin
Yeah, Rama is very good.
drifting vale
it is very good
spare flare
Yes, Matt.
stuck bobcat
Rama is great
gilded nymph
what does it even do
spare flare
Read it, man.
drifting vale
special applies Shared Suffering which damages enemies when you hit one of them
spare flare
Is Beowulf seen as the best Aegis?
drifting vale
usually Chaos
spare flare
Still?
cunning urchin
Beowulf is #1. 
drifting vale
most people just dont like Beo in general so theres a bias
stuck bobcat
In speedruns beo is the S tier
cunning urchin
I don't know who those most people are lol.
Beowulf is #1 for high heat and for speedruns.
drifting vale
from what Ive seen in this chat
untold iris
is beowulf still good even though charged flight is nerfed?
cunning urchin
Yes.
spare flare
But Chaos is still taken over Zeus? I rather like Zeus.
gilded nymph
oh and also what do people run on rama?
drifting vale
no one is forcing you to use a certain aspect
cunning urchin
It never needed Charged Flight to be great. Charged Flight was just broken.
spare flare
Heartbreak Strike, Matt.
cunning urchin
Charged Flight is still the best hammer for it.
limber flax
do you prefer point blank shot or sniper shot?
gilded nymph
with what duos noah?
cunning urchin
It's a mix of Dragon Rush and Specials.
gilded nymph
or what hammers/cast/special
spare flare
Heart Rend and Smoldering Air are both nuts.
stuck bobcat
@gilded nymph either artemis or aphro, slap some status on special and your build is done
gilded nymph
so like aphro attack and dio special? then just go for duos?
spare flare
Deadly Flourish, the mark boon, Heart Rent on a fully charged dash-attack Heartbreak Strike . . .
Can you say, "Big, fat damage?"
spare flare
Drunken Flourish is good, too.
stuck bobcat
Yea. Rama is just like arthur 3rd swing. But ranged... and constant xD
spare flare
I used Thunder Flourish in my blind run, and the results were pretty solid.
tranquil violet
How is marking supposed to work with bosses like the Fates or Heroes?
I see how it would be useful in Snek or Daddy battles where there's plenty of grist enemies
stuck bobcat
It doesnt
tranquil violet
But the requirement that you hit one enemy and then a different one gets marked seems odd?
Or hard to work around at least?
spare flare
Why not?
tranquil violet
Seems better for room clearing than bosses.
jaunty locust
if they hae summons or adds you can make use of it that way
spare flare
Mark Theseus, blast Asterius, repeat.
tranquil violet
I tend to always build for bosses because I'm trying to beat Hades and not speed rooms
But I want to focus Asterius :p
spare flare
Yeah.
untold iris
isnt rama special just a free damage buff? since enemies echo damage onto themselves
tranquil violet
Last thing I want is Theseus calling with both of them running around
jaunty locust
๐ฆ I'm not getting divine dash. I'm so sad.
spare flare
Focus Asterius. Theseus just gets 60% of that damage.
gilded nymph
and last thing for rama, what hammers do you want
spare flare
And yeah, you can mark both, and then Asterius takes 160% damage, while Theseus takes 60%.
spare flare
Twin Shot is always nuts.
untold iris
wait for him to throw his spear
untold iris
its still really annoying though
tranquil violet
Though then one can also just spam special lobs
spare flare
That's the nice thing about Rama. If you have mark damage ticking him down, you make the post-Asterius fight so much easier.
untold iris
EM3 is nice because he doesnt have a shield for 75% of his health bar
cunning urchin
Just shoot both at the same time with Rama.
tranquil violet
I need to figure out how to build up better DPS
untold iris
and once he gets his shield up you just use your summon + call and one-shot him
or at least thats what I do
tranquil violet
Feels like when I get to Hades I end up losing by attrition because I'm not doling out enough damage fast enough
cunning urchin
Why shoot one when you can shoot both and proc Shared Suffering twice in one shot.
tranquil violet
Asterius and Theseus aren't too hard for me anymore
stuck bobcat
I tend to go with
Heartbreak Strike and Demeter special
Just for the ease of use and easy duo status.
If you roll twin shot and perfect shot prepare for some 3k+ numbers
jaunty locust
TBH as soon as Theseus goes into super mode I just pop a companion on him and that's basically the fight
tranquil violet
I don't have companions yet ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
But I do save a greater call to try to shorten that bit as much as possible
jaunty locust
well, in that case, if you have a call that gives you invulnerability, for the duration of his initial call
yeah, if you have a greater call ready like ares or poseidon or athena you can just stand on top of him and go hog wild
spare flare
Quick offense tip: Taken as individual instances, the general attack tier list is Heartbreak/Curse, Deadly, Divine/Frost. For Exagryph, Lightning Strike is amazing. For Varatha, your base DPS is high enough that Curse of Pain is not as valuable as the others. Divine has less value for Coronacht, too, as your best DPS usually comes from spamming dash-strikes (and their short charge times). Malphon has great use of any of them, with Lightning Strike making the list well for it, too.
For specials, it goes Heartbreak/Curse, Deadly, Tempest, Divine/Frost.
tranquil violet
Some of the calls are more annoying than others, getting one that's really incompatible with your weapon sucks
spare flare
@tranquil violet
tranquil violet
That tier list seems is missing some.
What about Poseidon and Zeus attacks/specials?
cunning urchin
@jaunty locust you'd be faster using a summon in Theseus's phase 1, since he's completely open to attacks in phase 2 anyway when he uses his call.
untold iris
i really like aphrodite boons a lot for most builds
status for privileged status is good, weak is good, damage boost is good, weak synergy boons are mostly good
there's really nothing that it doesn't do at least decently
cunning urchin
You can typically rush-down Theseus before his first call ends.
cloud barn
yep
untold iris
I think that might be possible on EM3
stuck bobcat
Yup.
Aphro is propably highest on the tier list of gods
untold iris
he has more hp as regular theseus when he does the call I think
so it might not be possible to burst him unless you have a lot of dps
tranquil violet
Also: I assume there are never any variants of the Heroes fight like the other bosses?
cunning urchin
So get a lot of DPS.
tranquil violet
Just the different Call?
cloud barn
i got a super fun build
good upgrades on all attack, special, and cast. +30% special speed from hermes
chiron
so i can weave a cast between my specials
and I have +2 cast charges from artemis
along with 2.25 second cast recharge time from hermes
jaunty locust
summon phase 1 and then pop a greater call or something in phase 2?
cunning urchin
@cloud barn third boon in Tartarus was Heart Rend lol. https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/765686730069114920/Hades_946.png?width=844&height=475
jaunty locust
depends on what I have on hand. If I have a charged greater call that either does fast damage (Aphrodite, artemis) or impervious, I'll blast that instantaneously. if not, I'll toss my companion since sometimes they're REAL slow
ooooh
untold iris
isnt EM3 just the same fight over and over again?
cloud barn
lmao
untold iris
its a hilarious fight, but it doesnt change
stuck bobcat
Its different than without em3
So it counts
cloud barn
imma kill hades real quick then screenshot my build
stuck bobcat
ยฏ\_(ใ)_/ยฏ
jaunty locust
ok, that run went well, I'm gonna try the SAME THING AGAIN because I ||Need to get Asterius-senpai to notice my dope gloves|| and also I got impending doom and merficul end, but had to use the divine flourish to trigger it instead of dash, and I want to see EXACTLY how rude I can be
cunning urchin
Good luck!
cloud barn
prolly gonna die
jaunty locust
the idea of it being hilarious is very good to me
Theseus is already the funniest character
I've tried so hard to get him to kill Asterius with his spear throw to see if I can trigger extra dialogue, no luck
stuck bobcat
I would realy like EM 5-6 sisters and hydra are kinda pushovers
untold iris
EM1 and EM2 dont make a huge difference to be honest
stuck bobcat
Fighting 3 sisters at same time
untold iris
except I'm bad and run into lava too much so EM2 is sometimes annoying
cunning urchin
Have you tried EM2 FO2 HL5 CP2 DC2 HS?
jaunty locust
yes YES YES YES NYX THANK YOU I finally get arthur
cunning urchin
Oh yeah, throw in RI3 because single dash is the real way to play those fights.
cunning urchin
Fighting 3 sisters at same time
That was the original idea, but they realized there's a lot more variety with how it works now. Fighting all Furies at the same time would just be always the same fight.
cloud barn
this was right before i killed him, look how many casts were in him lol
https://imgur.com/a/WtWgFzk
cunning urchin
@stuck bobcat sure.
untold iris
hades, god of bloodstone
jaunty locust
how did you get that lmao
gilded nymph
what lmao
cunning urchin
Stygian Soul with extra ammo.
cloud barn
and quicker reload time
cunning urchin
With 3โ4 casts, you'll have practically infinite ammo lol.
cloud barn
yeah lol
spare flare
Mimic, that's just looking at the standard damage increases. Poseidon's buffs have a wildly different scaling according to whether or not you get knockback-based buffs.
cloud barn
and i only had epic quick reload, with heroic quick reload i think you can infinitely spam
jaunty locust
ok, going for dark forseight since last time i didn't see enough god boons to end up with all the stuff i wanted for my build
doesn't matter if divine dash is rare, that's not what I want it for
cloud barn
actually
cunning urchin
@cloud barn 2 rerolls left. Should have rerolled harder for Heart Rend.
stuck bobcat
My rngesus does not allow for this kind of builds.
Ive got fully loaded like twice in 150 hours
cloud barn
i had sweet surrender
untold iris
i really dont like poseidon tbh
its hard for me to get into the knockback builds naturally because I really dont like taking his attack or special
so unless I force it then it never happens
cloud barn
same
cunning urchin
Well, don't take him for his Attack or Special.
jaunty locust
his attack or special doesn't sunergize well with a LOT of weapons
cloud barn
demeter aspect fists
untold iris
his dash is nice but other dashes are also nice
cloud barn
you can bonk with special
cunning urchin
Tempest Flourish is quite strong, though.
2nd highest +% Special damage and second best pom/rarity scaling.
stuck bobcat
Poseidon attack + his dodge + sea storm
On claws (best on gilgamesh)
It melts and works suprisingly very easy
Hold both buttons and aim for enemy
cunning urchin
It's practically even with Deadly Flourish.
spare flare
Is there a more comprehensive tier list for boons somewhere?
cloud barn
boons or boon sources?
cunning urchin
Tier list for boons? I can't imagine there are any good ones out there.
stuck bobcat
Check the speedruns
It kinda shifts all the time
cloud barn
like every boon from every god or just the gods in general
I have my personal one\
but a true tier list is impossible
unless you go in with the understanding that everything can change from chance
go with what you find instead of forcing something
untold iris
actually though, I think aphrodite and athena are probably the two best "generalist" gods
you can just take them in any build and they will probably perform well
cloud barn
yep
spare flare
Like, just in their base forms, without help from other boons.
stuck bobcat
Way to many build/aspect based gods
There are overall greats like Aphro and Athena but without contex - comparing them doesnt have any sense
spare flare
That's why Poseidon wasn't in that other list: at least in Strikes, his % bonus and scaling was not very impressive.
cloud barn
this is my personal boon source tier list
https://imgur.com/a/X9FHUaL
cunning urchin
Here's my dash boon tier list:
Divine Dash
No Dash
Hunter Dash
Tidal Dash
...
Everything else
untold iris
no dash?
cunning urchin
Yes.
willow fossil
if you include hermes, then you gotta include daedalous
marsh pumice
uncles last..... bad list
cunning urchin
No Dash means you can get still get Divine Dash.
stuck bobcat
Does any dodge beside those 3 exist? xD
untold iris
i think most dashes are good
cloud barn
no, daedalus isnt a god
willow fossil
every god has a dash
willow fossil
true
untold iris
actually what is the worst dash? because i cant think of a bad one off the top of my head
willow fossil
but hermes behaves similar to Daedalus
untold iris
I guess zeus probably has the worst dash without synergy?
gilded nymph
anybody else think aphro is the hardest boon to face in challenge of gods?
drifting zodiac
demeter is hard for me
untold iris
its free status
drifting zodiac
in trials
cunning urchin
I have never done Lady Aphrodite's trial.
stuck bobcat
Zeus is terrible
cloud barn
no, because if it applies hangover then it deals that hangover's damage, which could take up a slot for one of your other hangover boons
untold iris
i think athena is the easiest trial
inner heath
Anyone know how many arrows Chiron fires when maxed now?
untold iris
you take dio dash when your build isnt hangover focused
cunning urchin
@inner heath 8 for 10 damage each.
untold iris
and just have it as your only source of hangover
cloud barn
true
inner heath
@cunning urchin Thanks!
untold iris
its an extra status to trigger privileged status
and it lasts forever on the ground so its really easy to hit
cloud barn
i prefer family favorite
stuck bobcat
Aphrodite trial is worst
That heat seeking ๐ , always hit me
cunning urchin
you take dio dash when your build isnt hangover focused
No, you leave the slot open so that you can get Divine Dash.
cloud barn
because i dont have to think about using more attacks
cunning urchin
That's actual high heat meta. I'm not even joking lol.
marsh pumice
Aphrodite trial is worst
That heat seeking ๐ , always hit me
just move
spare flare
I'm usually good at dashing through those hearts, but man, when they spawn right next to me in some terrain, so that I can't see them . . .
untold iris
aphrodite is fine as long as you run around a lot but poseidon's hitbox is huge
cunning urchin
lol I can never proc Butterfly in Poseidon's trials.
untold iris
so I always get hit by it
cloud barn
aphro is moderately fast and has super accurate tracking
spare flare
Dash through it.
spare flare
I was responding to Pos's wave.
spare flare
Agreed on that.
spare flare
Either works.
untold iris
i just take the athena trial whenever its available
cloud barn
as demonstrated by the stupid satyrs
untold iris
because its easy mode
cunning urchin
Poseidon's trial is cheap. He's a jerk.
spare flare
They're all jerks, to be fair.
untold iris
not hermes
cunning urchin
Rude.
untold iris
hermes is a bro
spare flare
Okay, Hermes is pretty solid, for an Olympian.
cloud barn
because hermes ain't got a pride issue
all the others do
as demonstrated by the fact hermes is never in a trial of the gods
dry ember
Poseidon's trial is cheap. He's a jerk.
Aphrodite has the same mechanic, is she a jerk also?
cloud barn
he don't get angy so he don't involve himself
stuck bobcat
If we are on topic of whats the worst. What's the worst attack boon? Demeter?
spare flare
"Let's have a war for funsies!"
-Olympian gods, literally every day
cloud barn
definitely not demeter
spare flare
Naw, Frost Strike's good.
cloud barn
personally I think worst attack is poseidon
dry ember
The worst attack is the one with sub optimal synergies with your weapon
So yeah, Poseidon
spare flare
Easily, except with Coronacht, in which case it's . . . still not great.
cunning urchin
@dry ember heretics must die. They should buff her trial. ๐
untold iris
I think demeter is fine
damage is okay but the status is the good part because privileged status is broken
torpid wren
just finished a run with Chiron w/ not so great boons and hammers. yeah it's noticeably slower to kill stuff with its frontload damage but the safe playstyle doesn't change at all and there's still ways to rake up the damage in a run.
also.. I thought poseidon's trail was tame. until I realised how awful it is when combined with chaos extra enemy boon in a room full of Wave-makers.
sly night
posideon can be good if u get water blast
untold iris
sometimes you just get rooms that screw you over
cunning urchin
Chiron is fine, yeah. Did a quick 32 Heat when the update dropped, and it was still free.
spare flare
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1P6oZ6i8zmY6s7PM_AkX_g6bjZ601iP_xi9CxzEpujJ4/edit?usp=sharing
Is this still up to date?
gilded nymph
can't say i like rama, the charge time is too long
dry ember
While we are bashing Tempest Strike, isn't it ironic that one of my highest heat runs is with it?
gilded nymph
the only bow I like is hera lmao
spare flare
Is it up to date as of the last patch?
cunning urchin
Should be. There haven't been any changes to Attack or Special boons.
drifting zodiac
strategic question, if you're looking for a specific boon type (ex: +special for chiron), should you take an early common, or hold out for a higher rarity?
sly night
what cast do u guys like with stygian posideon
cloud barn
yeah i agree that rama is slow, but most hidden aspects are slower but stronger
and rama def fits that
torpid wren
I'd like Rama more if the startup time wasn't a billion frames
gilded nymph
I also got like 9 aphro, dio and arte boons total with not a single duo :/
cunning urchin
@sly night Ice Wine or Hunting Blades.
Maybe Blizzard Shot.
@dry ember wasn't that low heat?
limber flax
oh im stupid
stuck bobcat
Only spear hidden isnt stronger
It's actually one of weakeast 
cloud barn
it's time
limber flax
i took point blank shot and poseidon dash
cloud barn
i have a hera run going
limber flax
i think that was not a good idea
untold iris
every time i take poseidon attack im disappointed
cloud barn
so far i have artemis attack and just grabbed a chaos that gives another cast
untold iris
except one time on guan yu
untold iris
im not saying its bad
im just saying that I've never had a good poseidon attack except one guan yu run
because the knockback makes the spin attack hit more times
cunning urchin
I was responding to @stuck bobcat.
untold iris
oh
stuck bobcat
cloud barn
cunning urchin
Tempest Strike on Guan Yu is an interesting idea.
untold iris
im sorry though nyaanyaa you're opinion is wrong
I found a random post on reddit that contradicts you
the Rama aspect - underwhelming and stupid alternate for a special. Also Guan Yu is not viable at high heat, lifesteal for a humungous hp loss doesnt make sense with some pact activated.
Challenge to Supergiant is to actually make all weapons playable at all conditions
cunning urchin
Can't see it beating Divine Strike for spin builds, though.
lost wraith
acorn or spearpoint lads
spare flare
Is Guan Yu aspect really weak? Sure feels strong.
dry ember
@dry ember wasn't that low heat?
excuse me, this is bannable level of elitism ๐ค
cloud barn
pom blossom
onyx parcel
acorn or spearpoint lads
@lost wraith acorn
cunning urchin
It's strong.
untold iris
I really like it
but sometimes I mess up and die in 3 hits
lost wraith
thing w guan yu is you have to know what youre doing
untold iris
so my conclusion is that its probably good if you're a good player
lost wraith
if you dont you will lose all your dd real fast
untold iris
and not good if you're me
cunning urchin
@dry ember I'm just asking.
stuck bobcat
I realy like special on Rama
cunning urchin
Yeah, it's high risk, high reward.
stuck bobcat
Whats wrong with it
gilded nymph
gy with pos and zeus is so much fun
if you get charged skewer you are op
just stack jolted, ruptured, boss damage on pos and get charged skewer hammer
stuck bobcat
Does 4 legendary and 3 duo boons count?
cloud barn
yes, dreams dont have to be realistic
spare flare
Considering the downtime of Zeus bolts to be 0.2 and dooms to be 1s, it seems like Thunder Flourish is strictly better than Curse of Pain unless you need the doom for Privileged Status on a bigger attack or something.
dry ember
what's everyone here's dream build
Zag/Rama Bow Hunter Dash Deadly Strike Twin Shot Point Blank Shot Heartbreak Flourish Heart Rend
cunning urchin
Doom procs after 1.1s.
Strongest build would be Eris + Lightning Strike + Smoldering Air + Dionysus' Aid and a bunch of other stuff.
spare flare
1.1s, right. Even worse.
cunning urchin
Best DPS call.
hearty elbow
It's in conversation for best Call
cloud barn
personally my dream build is:
Stygian Soul
quicker cast regen from hermes
hera aspect
demeter "when no casts" buff
ares cast
hermes extra damage vs enemies without cast in them
artemis +2 casts
two +1 casts from chaos
demeter/ares synergy that makes the blade rifts apply chill
10 chill explosion
all damage has crit chance from artemis
aphrodite attack
heart rend
weakened enemies take more damage
untold iris
huh
spare flare
It's not my main choice, but it does do a lot of damage.
hearty elbow
600 for level 1 common
cunning urchin
Just spam Lesser Call.
cloud barn
i call that build the "crash your PC"
hearty elbow
Assuming you get 5 ticks, which I'm not sur why people here think is impossible, the range is exceptionally forgiving
cunning urchin
600 multiplied by the number of enemies that you hit.
untold iris
what about demeter/zeus call? because I also thought that those sucked
hearty elbow
- Damage that you are dealing
cloud barn
demeter is amazing
spare flare
They don't.
cloud barn
it applies chill which is good for synergies
hearty elbow
Demeter is pretty underwhelming
cunning urchin
Demeter's Aid sucks.
cloud barn
but lorge
stuck bobcat
Gilgamesh:
Doom attack
Aphro special (exchanged from Athena)
Athena dodge
Dio cast
Dio call
All doom based boons (doom proc on reflect dodge, doom on weakened enemy and frok ares tree).
Ares/Dio duo for melting with call
Dio legendary for increasing Dio call damage
hearty elbow
Part of the downside is that it takes an eternity to go away, so it's hard to start build charge back up
Even with Smoldering Air
cloud barn
lorge tho
cunning urchin
Zeus' Aid imo is #1.
hearty elbow
Zeus' Aid is the fast track to Smoldering Air
gilded nymph
I really like arte aphro and athena aid
hearty elbow
And scales the hardest with additional boons
cloud barn
IMO zeus' is worst, as I am not a speedrunner and don't like being forced to stand within melee range of hades
cunning urchin
High damage, easy route to Smoldering Air, amazing t2 and t3 potential.
untold iris
its probably great in synergy builds since zeus has a lot of lightning amplifiers
stuck bobcat
I hate Zeus Aid
Without other Zeus boons it hits like wet noodle
untold iris
but by itself it feels really bad
cloud barn
yep
hearty elbow
My preference is for Poseidon and Athena calls, followed by Dio's, then Zeus
untold iris
I've been either taking invulnerability or artemis/aphrodite for burst if that's what I can get
i didnt realize that dio did so much damage
spare flare
Ares's Aid wins games.
cunning urchin
@cloud barn you can proc it to e.g. i-frame a spin, and he'll take full damage easily.
cloud barn
ares' aid is good
stuck bobcat
All aids (not counting artemis) wins games xD
hearty elbow
I really can't stand Ares' Aid, but I respect people's love for big numbers
cunning urchin
I also like to Call right as he comes out of invisibility.
cloud barn
wha
marsh pumice
Artemis call is the best
cloud barn
what are u referring to in the ping message
cunning urchin
I-frames his attack and makes sure he takes full damage.
hearty elbow
Artemis' Call is below Athlete's Foot on my mental tier list
untold iris
but so many arrows!
stuck bobcat
Artemis Aid is the worst piece of trash in this game xD
marsh pumice
same as you
stuck bobcat
Oof
hearty elbow
Rekt
No, but seriously, the average damage of level 1 common Greater Call, on one target, assuming you're close enough for the arrows to home in correctly on that target, is 1700
cunning urchin
IMO zeus' is worst, as I am not a speedrunner and don't like being forced to stand within melee range of hades
I'm telling you how to use the call safely while making sure he takes full damage.
hearty elbow
For Greater Call. Dio's Aid is way more flexible, and each usage is AoE 600
sly night
side hustle or +2 dashes, im on 15. Posideon swardboi
cloud barn
ah
untold iris
im pretty sure +dash is my favorite boon
cloud barn
on any activation? i know that greater gives a ton
spare flare
Really? I always take Side Hustle.
cunning urchin
Yes.
cloud barn
nice
untold iris
extra dash is priceless
cunning urchin
About the same as a dash, probably a bit more lenient.
sly night
Yeah its a hard choice dashes make runs feel so smooth
marsh pumice
Side Hustle is only good if you take it early or dont have better choice
spare flare
15 is pretty early.
untold iris
im looking at my stats and surprisingly the boon that I've won the most runs with is greater evasion
spare flare
Being able to buy two additional boons . . .
untold iris
followed by a tie between divine dash and greatest reflex
cunning urchin
Yeah, but if it wasn't in his pool in the first place, you'd have a better choice. That's why it sucks lol.
cloud barn
side hustle gets a ton of value is styx
stuck bobcat
To me it's Aphro attack
Im sucker for big numbers
cunning urchin
With Side Hustle, you're giving up a 500-value boon to buy two 150-value boons? That's a loss.
cloud barn
well
spare flare
450 gold for 30 rooms, which is Styx alone, yeah? So it's a boosted rarity boon when you're most likely to be able to buy a duo or legendary.
untold iris
or unless your build really, really needs a different hermes boon
spare flare
I didn't pay attention that much, but okay, say 13. That's not much worse, and if you're rolling Golden Touch . . .
stuck bobcat
Unless you have bad luck and roll +1 dash
And have +20/+30% attack speed to pick from
I have bad luck for dash boon
Its always movement speed god damnit!
cunning urchin
Golden Touch is mostly a farming talent. You're better off with Deep Pockets for heat runs.
sly night
I have athena god call, would you take 30% movespeed or .5% Gauge a second?
Im guessing gause
untold iris
i like golden touch on low heat because you can buy the big item in styx
but i find myself spending gold as soon as I can get something good on high heat
because I want to not die
cloud barn
i feel it's very understandable to take this here :P
https://imgur.com/a/Z6rSyAw
cunning urchin
Fact is you can only take 3 boons from Lord Hermes in a run. Only 2 of those are free, 1 is 500 obols. If you give up 1, you need to pay 500 obols to get your normally guaranteed 2nd boon from him, and you can't get a third.
untold iris
yeah take the reroll :^)
cunning urchin
I would 100% reroll that.
cloud barn
nah