maiden trail
My best advice is probably to make sure you don't sit still for long, especially not close to a head since they can all ground-slam. Dash in, hit a few times, dash away before the head you're hitting can pound you or faraway heads can line up shockwaves.
on the other hand "be dashin' around like a mad fool at all times" seems like solid advice at the best of times, skelly told me that and he's never wrong
edgy delta
wow, ty for all the tips
frail vale
For me non EM hydra was always about shooting out of his range.
And then dashing like mad when he summons extra heads
forest yacht
Well just to update y’all, I got dio’s cast and all was going well until halfway through the second stage of the final boss 😩 if I’d had my last death defiance I’d have been fine but h well ol
forest yacht
No cause I’m still a baby noob 😂
zinc obsidian
I require help
Ive killed hades 4 times with the homing bow
I have a good build for it
looking for a build guide that utiilises any op aspect
with any weapon
frail vale
Homing bow - you mean Chiron?
robust anchor
go to #h1-high-heat-strategies and go to pinned spreadsheet
zinc obsidian
alr
potent ember
rama bow with hangover special and crit attack with splitting headache.
robust anchor
shows many good videos/builds
wide plover
lvl 1 hera with dio cast is good and easy, look for demeter/zeus duos
frail vale
I like Rama bow with hangover special and Aphrodite attack and aphro/deo and Ares/deo dou boons
wide plover
yeah, that one is also easy
frail vale
Fists are really strong with Athena's attack, Aphrodite's dash, Artemis cast or special with all 3 of their duos and exposr
wide plover
stuff like this requires learning how to stay alive when close to enemies though
frail vale
Eris's rail with rocket and 5x special hummers
With literally any boons is really good
And Athena's dash makes literally any run better :)
gleaming current
except the ones where it replaces epic hunter dash
frail vale
I like spear with hold-to-spam-attack hummer and Demeter attack too
fossil compass
I have to use stubborn defiance in a run for the prophecy, is there any boon/weapon build that makes this easy? I'm planning something like cast build with poseidon sword and skelly keepsake for the final boss to foolproof it...
cinder flower
is poseidon sword best cast weapon?
frail vale
Generally - yes, Hera bow has its uses tho
gleaming current
Achilles spear probably is better conditionally, but poseidon is the most versatile bet out there
granted, poseidon is better for lodging casts while achilles is better for non-lodging. Hera is rather indifferent judging by passion shot and trippy shot
frail vale
Btw how does Poseidon/Ares duo work with Hera bow? Never got it
cinder flower
boons that affect attack don't affect dash strikes right?
forest yacht
Ok so new run, new aspect question: how is hades aspect different? The punishing sweep just seems to be the same as the normal spin attack except maybe slightly beefed up? Or am I missing something lol
stoic thicket
You deal more damage with your attack and special to enemies that have been hit by the spin.
weary ridge
It increases the radius of the spin and then gives you bonus damage for (I think) 10 seconds to everyone you hit with it
stoic thicket
They have a symbol over their head.
Maxed out the damage bonus from Hades aspect is significant.
forest yacht
Nice! Thanks guys ☺️ paired with doom this seems like it’s going to be fun so far lol
sick tiger
Dunno if it's the right place, but.. I need to get hermes legendary to finish the fated list, how can i get him more often?
I usually get him 2-3 times every run
lost badger
I got that boon once but it didn’t fit my build in the least, and had to let it go 😭
Considered throwing the run for it, but it ended up being my lowest clear time
pallid dagger
I love you Uncle Poseidon
600 damage per strike on his call
weary ridge
I would just equip his keepsake, it doesn't guarantee an appearance like the other god keepsakes but at least it will make sure you always have a speed increase buff which is a requirement for the legendary boon (I'm in the same boat, still waiting to get it)
lost badger
The mirror upgrades for +legendary and +boon rooms probably help
forest yacht
So I’ve got hades spear, currently only got attack doom on it. Just cleared Tartarus and wondering if anyone has suggestions if there’s a particular boon I should be looking out for with this aspect? So I know which keepsake is best to equip
pallid dagger
gonna do yet another Hera run
opinions: should i go for the lightning phalanx duo, or stick with electric shot?
sick tiger
So I’ve got hades spear, currently only got attack doom on it. Just cleared Tartarus and wondering if anyone has suggestions if there’s a particular boon I should be looking out for with this aspect? So I know which keepsake is best to equip
@forest yacht i'm by no means a pro, but I would say irt depends on playstile
I like poseidon because of fast clearing on normal rooms
frail vale
I like flood shot or trippy fog on Hera :)
plain violet
athena dash
never a bad take
you'll never be like "I sure wish my dash didn't reflect projectiles and also sometimes melee atks"
warm flame
Lol
frail vale
Tru tho.
Like if you aren't building something specific like Poseidon/Zeus duo with Poseidon dash Athena's is the way to go
sick tiger
demeter dash is also pretty damn good
frail schooner
buff the other dashes tbh
maiden trail
Hades spear is silly with the +spin radius daedalus buff
main osprey
wonder if boonless escapes would be possible
@severe sentinel I've done it several times (feel free to ping me if curious)
silk anvil
In search of balance changes help vs the hardest enemy in the game:
Why is the Wretched Sneak so OP?
frail schooner
divine dash
silk anvil
@severe sentinel I've done it several times
@main osprey what heat? Also, is this possible? Sometimes you're forced into god boon rooms, no? If you were forced, did you just take one that affected an attack/special/dash and then stop using that abikity?
frail schooner
fated authority
main osprey
You've nailed it, Kirby
silk anvil
fated authority
@frail schooner derp, I forgot that existed too
main osprey
I actually run persuasion, to avoid core boons
frail schooner
but that isn’t boonless
silk anvil
If you dont use em I'd argue it is @frail schooner
the stipulation is you can never give yourself a passive bonus boon, so it makes sense to force it to an attack boon
frail schooner
i see
silk anvil
That's pretty clever, never thought of it before. But I presume you allow yourself mirror buffs, yeah? @main osprey
frail schooner
mirror buffs = boon from nyx
main osprey
Highest I've completed is 16 heat
Highest I've attempted is 32 heat, where I died to the Heroes
I have a video somewhat recently in #self-promotion with one of my (failed) 16-heat attempts where I made it to Styx with Guan Yu, boonless
silk anvil
I wish I was in a place where I had non-poop internet to watch it rn ;~;
Does the game feel like a slog? I mean, I can appreciate a challenge as much as the next Zag, but it's really just 
when it takes a minute to kill a basic enemy
plain violet
time to take dio for nectar health
terse coral
inb4 run is ruined because forced hammer
silk anvil
The 32 heat Poseidon dash could arguably fill that role @frail schooner , iirc they took some centaur stuff, but if you do it at lower heat, should be more than viable
frail schooner
dionysus boons are also banned. no getting hammered
main osprey
Does the game feel like a slog? I mean, I can appreciate a challenge as much as the next Zag, but it's really just
@silk anvil not really. You'd be surprised at how much damage you can do on your own
Boss fights suck though xD
plain violet
shattered shackle mvp
turbid needle
Guys best gun aspect GO!
plain violet
eris
dry ember
Gun aspects:
5. You
4. Can't
3. Rank
2. Guns
turbid needle
DC?
turbid needle
you are a riot
main osprey
Damage Control
dry ember
How many gun aspects are there
About 2?
silk anvil
Why not use hestia with damage control, and just use non-buffed rounds to shred armor before going in for them big hits?
I reckon your #1 ranking can still stand @dry ember
cunning urchin
Yeah, 2 aspects and 3 variants of 1 aspect: Eris, Hestia, worse Eris, worst Eris.
potent ember
wish the zag aspects in general were more viable
silk anvil
Though I'm a fan of consistent +damage, so I've only really ever given Eris a try
silk anvil
Zag aspect does what again? Purely just more rounds?
potent ember
just in general. they get outshined in almost every way
silk anvil
They're all perfectly viable for 40+ Heat.
@cunning urchin , that's your boons talking
cunning urchin
?
potent ember
bro try 40 heat with zag sword lmao
silk anvil
Iirc, zag sword is still relatively in favor, compared to some of the other zagspects
potent ember
literally nobody uses zag rail tho
glass rapids
Zag sword exists to fancy ME
no longer
terse coral
throwing true shot casts from behind the pillars in Styx because screw you Snakestones.
potent ember
how good is zag shield actually? it seems more focused for attack builds than special.
terse coral
if it's stupid but it works... :P
gleaming current
I mean, you still get that movement speed. For whatever reason you may need it
Rush delivery trigger, maybe
does rush delivery affect doom effects?
Zag shield is funny, especially if pulverizing blow. There is a ton of dps for ape tier gameplay
(which i practice a lot)
turbid needle
I use zag shield because I don't care about throws
also use zag spear because DAT RANGE DO
gleaming current
Zag Bow is also a fairly mundane choice. Free crit
cunning urchin
They're somewhat supposed to give you the base weapon experience.
turbid needle
yeah but when you have literal homing special, why take it?
gleaming current
For twin bow nuking experience
turbid needle
if you get twin bow
don't count on hammers to give you what you want is the first lesson of this game
cunning urchin
Until 1.0, the question was why use the weak homing special when you can just spam crits lol.
And Zag bow was buffed, too. It's fine as it is.
gleaming current
Well, this isn't the only attack hammer in the game so I'd keep counting
Btw the first lesson of this game is usually "dashstrikes remove dash iframes" 
cunning urchin
I thought the first lesson was Zag sword sucks.
plain violet
wait really?
main osprey
Yup
plain violet
I had no idea lol
I thought it was weird some dashes made me get hit more
*dash strikes
gleaming current
I thought the first lesson was Zag sword sucks.
that's got to be a second lesson, right after you realize first one
plain violet
I like that I'm finding this out only now lmao
dry ember
I thought the "wait really" was for the Zag Sword comment lol
main osprey
Alright Murf, you've now had your first Hades lesson
gleaming current
Well, to be FAIR, you don't need that knowledge to main half the weapons, and another half is usually sustained by divine dash
silk anvil
They say the best gift is one you never knew you needed
rest in peace to all the runs ended because of the fools who thought the best defence was a good offen[s/c]e
Spoiler: ||I am the fool||
Doesnt change anything tho, for a slightly different reason than @gleaming current mentioned, I never stop attacking even when I'm desperately trying not to get hit in a flurry of dashes
dry ember
Apparently Slash Dash is quite popular for all out damage builds
silk anvil
Thanks to the soapy floors and whatnot@dry ember
silk anvil
I finally got a chance to use cold embrace with fists; I was rather discheesed with the results. Not nearly as good damage as I had hoped; but then again, i wasn't using talos fists, so maybe that wouldve been a nice + to it
plain violet
it coming back faster could be useful I guess?
silk anvil
I'd imagine so, yeah @plain violet
plain violet
the problem is it's offered with rare side hustle
silk anvil
The only other options I ever look for from hermes is +dash or +high% dodge chance
plain violet
and I'm only in tartarus so that's a lotta money
I have the gain interest thing on too
silk anvil
hmmmm intensifies. If you're confident in yourself, I'd say go with cash
sly night
https://imgur.com/a/vpZCIaj any of these particularly good? First time using rail.
plain violet
also if I win this || charon || fight I will have all the steam achievements so debating what to buy even moreso than usual
silk anvil
If you were planning on playing without increased speed as it was, you're setting yourself up to buy gods you wanted later
plain violet
I think I can't turn down all that money, I love being able to just buy all the things
maybe hermes will offer it again later for special speed
dry ember
@sly night I would recommend Triple Bomb
silk anvil
https://imgur.com/a/vpZCIaj any of these particularly good? First time using rail.
@sly night , triple bomb is fun. Delta chamber is kinda meh unless you get attack speed increase
dry ember
If you have a good special boon
weary ridge
@sly night Triple bomb probably depending on build
sly night
I have nothing start of run p much
silk anvil
You can build I to it then! @sly night
dry ember
If you have like Lightning Strike, Delta Chamber I heard is fine
But say Deadly Flourish + Triple Bomb
plain violet
any tips for || charon || fight?
dry ember
Is solid
plain violet
last time I got bopped lol
dry ember
Very 4head but don't get hit.
silk anvil
grumble grumble, they still need to make delta chamber have more rounds on upgraded zag aspect
cunning urchin
Just do what Krashercorr did. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuE9jZRHhlU
plain violet
at least I'm using shield atm
dry ember
If he's not summoning ghosts, he's swinging
plain violet
thank gosh low heat
dry ember
Stay behind him
silk anvil
I'm calling no fair, Krasgercorr's Charon doesnt 360 noscopehim with the Oar like my Charon likes to do 
(Kidding of course ...but only partially)
plain violet
whew I did it
zeus shield made that fight a cakewalk
just special and hold block
then do it again
Poseidon's call was mvp too
wait I've got side hustle and a membership card now
nice
turbid needle
guys Zeus's call sucks make it stop sucking
silk anvil
Dont let nyaanyaa hear you
@turbid needle pair it with smoldering air and dont forget to use it, it's a silent beast that outputs more DPS than you think
maiden trail
Eh, I like it well enough if I'm just hammering it for billowing strength or using smoldering air
turbid needle
Imagine having a call need to rely on other boons to work
maiden trail
it feels a lot better to cast off one bar than, say, aphrodite or artemis, even though those are pretty fun greater calls
cloud barn
i feel having to rely on a duo boon means it isnt that good
silk anvil
Does billowing strength affect the calls too? Or is that separate?
maiden trail
You're misreading what I said, though
stuck bobcat
Soo, what's Your's best performing build/aspect? (||probably chiron||)
The thing you alwas take to tackle highest heat
maiden trail
I don't htink it relies on the duo boon, I'm just saying that there are worse options than Zeus call if you assume, for some reason, that you're constantly using your Call as soon as it hits a single bar
silk anvil
i feel having to rely on a duo boon means it isnt that good
@cloud barn I mean, I can extend the same logic to a bunch of other boons. Very rare that one one boon is amazing on it's own merit
tepid robin
tbt I find Zeus' call, with a couple of Zeus t2 boons, to be very good
silk anvil
Like, I'm surprised the beef isnt with Dio's call, which I feel I never hear anyone talk about
stuck bobcat
isnt' Dio's call the highest dps wise and damage based call?
silk anvil
Is it? Does it not just stack 5 hangover on people?
maiden trail
but it's big hangovers
main osprey
5 hangover, of 20 damage each
tepid robin
hangover gets a big dot buff
plus with the right boons you can stack more hangover iirc
main osprey
Duo boon
maiden trail
Curse of Nausea, isn't it? Does that cause a hangover stack to deal its damage and expire faster, or does that just make the hangover effect deal more damage ticks during its lifetime?
silk anvil
Very well; I dunno, I'm playing devils advocate here on behalf of game devs, I feel like they did nerf some of Zeus' stuff with the sole intent of you needing to pick stuff up for him to really come online, otherwise, if they buffed him just a bit more, hed suddenly be ... well... god tier
maiden trail
It's been a while since I did a hard hangover run and I'm not as familiar with the mechanics
main osprey
More ticks total, for Nausea
There's also Aphro x Dio, iirc, that increases the max hangover stacks
silk anvil
plus with the right boons you can stack more hangover iirc
@tepid robin we're evidently looking at god calls in a vacuum, regardless of other boons which one might have
tepid robin
Well, in that case Id prob run either Dio Zeus or Dem
stuck bobcat
upgrade it once and you have 30dmg hangovers
that's 150 dmg x 2 x 9
that's 2700dmg per lesser call
plus it works with Privileged Status, benefits from it and triggers it
that's 3780dmg per one call
if that's not very strong i don't know which call is better
xD
silk anvil
I wonder if higher damage hangover replaces lower damage ones
unkempt zephyr
if that's not very strong i don't know which call is better
@stuck bobcatalots calls better) just need rigth boons,comps and buffs)
tepid robin
privilege status is huge, but that goes outside the 'in a vacuum' discussion since you need another status 
stuck bobcat
in most cases you have another status :V
only atremis doesn't have one
unkempt zephyr
artemis have status) come one)
tepid robin
Does marked count?
stuck bobcat
it expires after first hit :V
tepid robin
still!
unkempt zephyr
mark its status(debuff)
tepid robin
I dont think marked expires on DOT effects
unkempt zephyr
i hope some time in future you find how mark work with hangover. and what Dio+artemis do
maiden trail
I think Punish does too from hades spear but I'm not certain about that one now that I mention it
silk anvil
Huh. Now I wanna see the charged air Dio run , because it's been a minute since I've run Dio... yeah, even at common 15damagex2 for every second, x 5stacks x 4 seconds for base hangover is pretty good
robust anchor
maim does not count towards priv status sadge
maiden trail
You sure? I could have sworn it was activating privileged status when I did an aphrodite dash upper.
Eh, maybe I had something else going on that run
robust anchor
yes sure
maiden trail
Weird.
stuck bobcat
whaa
potent ember
the swear bot doesnt work half the time lmao
tepid robin
I ended up getting Ares/Pos duo last night and that cast was kinda weird to use but the run went really well (also had zeus/pos duo boon so it did lightning damage too)
stuck bobcat
@potent ember the thinkg is i didn't swear, and when i swear it doest work xD
main osprey
It might've caught something that included the spelling of a swear
turbid needle
imagine getting uppity about swears
imagine installing a bot to remove swears rather than let people speak their minds because you're afraid of some karen getting upset with their 13 year old on the internet
main osprey
Server rules, my dude
potent ember
server is meant for all ages my guy
turbid needle
Who cares?
main osprey
It's called being polite
turbid needle
There isn't an argument if I'm objectively correct
plain violet
server rules are server rules man
turbid needle
Yep
And just because rules exist doesn't mean they make sense or have to be right
imagine being lawful over being good
unkempt zephyr
rude guy are you realy feels your self better and older than kid after your words?)
turbid needle
Yep
I'm right based on the grounds that you guys are arguing based on lawfulness rather than inherent goodness
pastel jolt
Hi! We have it as part of the rules to keep language clean on the server
plain violet
I should swear more at work
turbid needle
You should
plain violet
I'll get promoted more I bet
main osprey
Is there not inherent goodness in being nice to kids?
Okay I really hope you're trolling
I really, really hope so
tepid robin
lol, don't cut yourself on that edge my man
pastel jolt
Volcanic, please follow the rules in #readme-first :)
unkempt zephyr
Its theme for builds. not for disscussion like this. change chanel
turbid needle
Balance changes
stuck bobcat
is this a #h1-builds-and-combat
turbid needle
Let's talk about how guns need more power
pastel jolt
If you decide they're not for you, then you are welcome to find someplace else other than this server to take your discussion.
tepid robin
The rail is really good though!
pastel jolt
Are we all good now?
stuck bobcat
Rail sucks 😛
turbid needle
Rail stinks
stuck bobcat
worst weapon by far
turbid needle
Needs more power per bullet
like, its base damage could be increased and I wouldn't complain then
tepid robin
Lucifer + Zeus, Any other form + Artemis attack + shotgun-esque hammer
solid cairn
Rail sucks 😛
wrong
stuck bobcat
literally only builds which are allowed @tepid robin
cunning urchin
Eris is the strongest weapon in the game right now lol.
tepid robin
there are plenty of other good builds lol
like, most of my clears are with the rail lol
solid cairn
Eris is the strongest weapon in the game right now lol.
possibly
cunning urchin
Easily.
unkempt zephyr
Range +global 75% buff + insane hammer ups
primal hazel
Rlly? Huh
How does a usual eris build go?
mellow quest
it wins
solid cairn
hestia aint shabby either
mellow quest
that's how it goes
cunning urchin
Lightning Strike. Done. That's the build lol.
mellow quest
even a mediocre hangover build will be getting benefit form the damage increase
wide plover
what about rail builds like demeter attack + arctic blast or ares attack + dire misfortune? are they any good?
cunning urchin
You can really build whatever you want with it. It's +75% damage globally. Want a Tidal Dash build with +75% damage to your Tidal Dash? Eris is your pick.
unkempt zephyr
even a mediocre hangover build will be getting benefit form the damage increase
@mellow quest Mediacore hangover build) its second joke of the day for me.That make me laugth. ty realy)
First was Swords its caster weapons only)
mellow quest
it's certainly possible that you end up only with a common rarity hangover attack and nothing else really
empty prairie
@wide plover I use it from time to time. I'm still sub 10 heat, but it works well.
wide plover
interesting, thx
cunning urchin
Common or Heroic doesn't really matter for Drunken Strike, honestly. Just put poms on it.
primal hazel
So just regular rail build huh
Zeus on everything lol
cunning urchin
Hestia wants Heartbreak Strike or Deadly Strike.
mellow quest
still awaiting the day putting thunder flourish on things doesn't feel bad
cunning urchin
mighty ermine
feels fine on rama special
primal hazel
Yeah the cooldown puts it down a bit imo
main osprey
Chaos Shield
solid cairn
I found chiron drunken flourish to be kind of underwhelming?
cunning urchin
Of course. You'll want Heartbreak Flourish or Deadly Flourish on Chiron.
mellow quest
hangover is kind of a waste of chiron's strengths
any of the bows can apply 5-8 stacks of it very fast, chiron is just the only one that can make heartbreak/deadly flourish very potent without having to point blank every shot
other than rama i guess but i don't have many runs with it
grr blood expensive
mighty ermine
rama's most potent offensive tool is its attack, by a long shot, so putting supplementary flat damage/DoT like zeus or dio on the special is nice
empty prairie
I'm constantly so blood poor. 
cunning urchin
Guan Yu Special is bad.
Zeus' Aid is bad.
Rail is bad.
Thunder Flourish is bad.
mighty ermine
and you special everything anyways for shared suffering so win-win
mellow quest
i miss dad giving 2 blood
cunning urchin
I've seen more than enough for a whole day. I should get some sleep.
mighty ermine
lol
robust anchor
edgelord goth boyfriend stops time to protect me from the demons of heck and then give me his heart
🥺
mighty ermine
you missed the "Artemis Aid is good"s from the other day nyaa
empty prairie
What's wrong with Artemis aid? I like it. :(
mellow quest
i never said thunder flourish was bad, but that it feels bad
primal hazel
Same
But since I don't seem to understand can you correct me why it's actually better than I think?
Yk instead of clowning on my lack of knowledge in that department
Artemis aid is p weak compared to the others but there's of course nothing wrong with liking it :D
mighty ermine
yeah, nobody is going to stop you from picking it, and it can be better than no call obviously
unkempt zephyr
Artemis aid weak 
mighty ermine
it is just one of the weaker calls by a pretty clear margin
mellow quest
most of the calls are good both using 1 charge and full charge but artimes is underwhelming in room fights at 1 charge and against bosses a full charge doesn't really do that much for you other than some damage
primal hazel
At least it has that compared to the other dashes that are not athena xDD
unkempt zephyr
ohhhh....sheeees... this room becomes an entertainment attraction for me👍
mighty ermine
just because you formed a build over almost 40 minutes to maximize artemis aid damage doesn't mean it's normally good sergei lmao
main osprey
XD
empty prairie
I just find that my damage output is more consistent and good with Artemis aid over something like Zeus aid. If there's only one enemy, like a boss. It's just quick burst damage.
unkempt zephyr
I can do it in every weapon with only 2 boons looool)
primal hazel
Artemis call is literally just 100 damage arrow
mighty ermine
uh huh
primal hazel
In the time you have that arrow build up you'll already have done at least triple that with your weapons
jade rover
If you have the option of eurydice or Chaos, which would you choose?
mellow quest
i'd also say that call doesn't scale very well. zues aid has been nerfed so many times but it's still one of the best because of increased aoe, double strike chance, jolted, etc boons it scales off of
primal hazel
Chaos
mellow quest
artimes is just a little more damage
primal hazel
Better answer
cunning urchin
Zeus' Aid is #1 because it's the fastest way to Smoldering Air in most builds.
solid cairn
I think poseidon's is better lol
wide plover
smoldering air is that good?
cunning urchin
It is that good.
primal hazel
Smoldering was the 25 cap?
empty prairie
I've taken smoldering air a few times and I always forget to use it frequently. Haha
mighty ermine
free lesser every 5 seconds
solid cairn
assuming you remember
mighty ermine
well, yes.
mellow quest
one of the best boons in the game, lesser calls are still very strong
mighty ermine
which you should
mellow quest
and there are lots of bonuses after using a call you can get
primal hazel
Barely use am
Doing something wrong lol
cunning urchin
You can get Billowing Strength from Lord Zeus himself.
solid cairn
is crush shot one of the better casts for beo
hazy slate
thats aphro right?
primal hazel
@cunning urchin again could you or someone please explain me how/or in what situation thunder flourish is strong? The cooldown just feels sluggish for me
mighty ermine
passion flare 
mellow quest
yeah crush shot is the short range weak blast
hazy slate
it works pretty well with beo
cunning urchin
That's a free +20% or more to practically everything.
@primal hazel the CD is there because it was way broken without it.
empty prairie
I'm actually just about to play Beowulf and was thinking about going for ice wine. Is crush shot more powerful than that?
mellow quest
it's just one of those things that don't feel pleasant
primal hazel
I'm assuming I just shouldn't take it on fast specials
mellow quest
like thesues and satyrs instantly turning 180 degrees if you dash through them
solid cairn
I want to like beo and hera and achilles but I kind of dont
cunning urchin
@empty prairie Passion Flare is far more consistent than aiming for a Duo Boon.
solid hazel
@primal hazel thunder flourish is still good option on Zeus aspect. The hits every 0.3 seconds and tf cool down is 0.2.
ME is probably stronger on that aspect, but TF is still fun
primal hazel
Thanks for your answers and time
plain violet
I did it https://imgur.com/a/POxZVCm
primal hazel
I'll try to refrain from trashing it now ;D
plain violet
whew
primal hazel
Congratulations jeeeeesus
empty prairie
@cunning urchin So passion flare cast and what else for Beo?
solid cairn
snow burst I think?
solid hazel
TF is okayish on chaos aspect too... If the shields bounce back and hit on rebound it still kinda work
mighty ermine
snow burst and ravenous will are both great on beo
cunning urchin
Heartbreak Strike, Heartbreak Flourish, Passion Flare, Divine Dash, Zeus' Aid, Smoldering Air. Make sure you use Infernal Soul.
primal hazel
For beowulf?
cunning urchin
Yes.
primal hazel
Thanks
cunning urchin
Rarely?
mighty ermine
aw come on swan that was funny
cunning urchin
I use shield throw all the time.
solid hazel
I rarely use it haha
mellow quest
it's a very hard hitting ranged attack
main osprey
XD
solid hazel
Mmhm okay
mellow quest
bull rushing isn't always safe
main osprey
I thought I'd dropped in on a different convo lol
mellow quest
especially in asphodel
cunning urchin
Charged Flight is still the best hammer for Beowulf.
solid cairn
guan yu 2.0
solid hazel
If running PS wouldn't you want another status on strike?
cunning urchin
Why would you run PS?
mellow quest
beowulf is more of a family favorite thing
solid cairn
well aphro cast + snow burst is PS
cunning urchin
Smoldering Air is bigger numbers.
mellow quest
if you have to bend over backwards to apply 2 statuses with the weapon it's not worth it
mighty ermine
PS makes you do questionable things, like pick drunken dash to meet its needs
solid cairn
how good is jolted and rupture even
mellow quest
i did that earlier
cunning urchin
Beowulf should kill most things before you get a chance to apply a second status effect lol.
mellow quest
:^(
solid hazel
Is switching one boon really bending over backwards?
cunning urchin
Yeah, it is.
mellow quest
the rhythm of the build being clean is a big deal
epecially when you already do enough damage to clear basic enemies instantly anyway
cunning urchin
3 gods with Lady Aphrodite, Lord Zeus, and Lady Athena is already stretching it. You're not exactly getting free choice for your 4th god.
primal hazel
What do you guys play most family favourite or ps?
cunning urchin
Family Favorite.
solid hazel
Passion flare already weaks, so if you just had say Demeter attack which is not that much less damage than aphro, I'm sure your flares would out damage with PS
mighty ermine
FF
mellow quest
i like the flavor of priv status much more but family favorite is just much more consistent
primal hazel
Also do chaos and hermes count towards ff?
solid cairn
hermes does, chaos does not
mighty ermine
chaos does not, hermes does
it only counts olympians, and chaos is not one of course
primal hazel
So you'll be getting a consistent 25%?
solid cairn
keep in mind it is additive damage
cunning urchin
PS isn't worth all that much over FF.
solid cairn
so it's not a huge deal
primal hazel
On most if not all runs
cunning urchin
Frost Strike is a lot weaker than Heartbreak Strike.
mighty ermine
the difference between a typical FF value by the end and PS is basically urge to kill
which is nothing
primal hazel
Yeah ik most damage is add
solid hazel
Yeah i don't disagree it's a small difference, but i think if it's not very hard to get it then its worth it
solid cairn
I feel like I'm forgetting achilles spear is actually still a spear that you can use to kill things
primal hazel
Guess I need to switch to ff lol
mighty ermine
aspect of wizard staff
robust anchor
privilege isnt as easy as youd think to proc
solid cairn
I'll try it out again, I just am not a fan of stygian soul
cunning urchin
You need to keep in mind that Privileged Status doesn't do anything until you've applied both status effects.
robust anchor
dont even tell me to get dio or deme dash
mellow quest
i don't think athenda dash should do any damage/apply exposed personally
it's already so much better than every other dash with the deflect and i frames
primal hazel
Idk I proc ps weirdly often
But I guess I'm just not doing enough damage
cunning urchin
By the time I'd have applied two status effects with Beowulf, I want most things to be dead.
primal hazel
Why does everybody always want to nerf jeez
mighty ermine
it's not that getting PS together is exactly rare, but that it's conditional and not totally consistent
solid cairn
crystal beam is kind of iffy from my experience
mellow quest
because athena dash basically is -10 heat
cunning urchin
Divine Dash doing zero damage is reasonable.
solid hazel
Mmhm okay so if you did a beowulf charged with frost strike and 3x passion flare... The dragon rush hit would not PS, but then does the first or second flare start benefitting from PS?
primal hazel
The damage removal won't change much tho
Just make other dashes more viabke
If you find athena to strong just don't take it
mellow quest
you're dashing all the time, anything your dash does doesn't need to be crazy overpowered to be reasonably good
cunning urchin
Nah, damage removal would change things quite a lot.
primal hazel
Rlly?
mighty ermine
divine dash is useful for DC hearts
cunning urchin
That, and Dash damage is often the difference between needing an extra hit because they have 10 HP left or getting the kill with your Dash.
You'd start looking at other Dash boons more seriously when you see them.
Especially since Hunter Dash was already toned down.
mellow quest
good for different reasons instead of being worse
unkempt zephyr
damage control
@mighty ermine Dio dash forever for DC 2)
mighty ermine
lol
robust anchor
monkaOMEGA
primal hazel
Out of interest: how was hunter dash toned down
I'm only on hades since 1.0
pastel jolt
if you remember the Original™️ hunter dash you qualify for a senior's discount
main osprey
Wait which one is the original
cunning urchin
Yeah, Epic Hunter Dash used to be +100% Dash-Strike damage lol. And pom scaling was way higher than it is now.
unkempt zephyr
Hunter dash was hard nerfed)
main osprey
The 50/75/100 or even stronger?
primal hazel
Wow just free double dash famage
main osprey
Oh jeez
primal hazel
WTF
pastel jolt
that's the one i meant, aye
pastel jolt
would you believe me if i said the shield originally used to deflect attacks without needing a boon
unkempt zephyr
nerf was along time ago) agreed with @pastel jolt
mighty ermine
it makes me feel ancient 🏺
mellow quest
yes
cunning urchin
@mighty ermine I guess that one made a short return in disguise in the test branch.
robust anchor
browsing yt i saw early versions of the game with 120 heat monkaOMEGA
pastel jolt
didn't even make it to the first major update, that one, hehe
robust anchor
did you guys play back then
main osprey
Not me
mellow quest
heat was completely reworked
mighty ermine
oh yeah, i have 120s and a 153 from those days
pastel jolt
i've been here since the beginning
unkempt zephyr
would you believe me if i said the shield originally used to deflect attacks without needing a boon
@pastel jolt WHY Dev nerf this i was so sad . But its still proc DR if you blocking
pastel jolt
it was nerfed because it made the shield the best weapon in the game without any possible competition ;P
mighty ermine
back when heat was an actual resource you would collect to pour into the pact 😔
cunning urchin
Didn't you say your 153 was the Heat WR back then?
mighty ermine
i believe so yeah
main osprey
Technically, it still is :3
mighty ermine
always will be
pastel jolt
i'm glad the game's balanced the way it is now, you get so many more interesting builds out of it
main osprey
Ain't no one beating that now
pastel jolt
though you can pry chiron bow from my cold, clammy hands at this rate, lmao
mellow quest
could be better but yeah it's very good right now
cunning urchin
@main osprey watch bablo try.
main osprey
^^part of why I like the new Chaos
solid hazel
He won't get much further than the pop if he tries to be 157 haha
It'll be a pretty boring attempt
fossil compass
I'm trying to play new bow aspect, I've been told Hera > Chiron. What's an effective build for hera bow?
unkempt zephyr
everyone knows that the shield still procs a Deadly Revers when blocking attacks?)
mellow quest
you have 1 second to beat the entire game and then you die
cunning urchin
@pastel jolt I believe Amir will, in fact, do that if the test branch is anything to go by.
pastel jolt
;-;
main osprey
I really like Chiron!
pastel jolt
the test branch can't hurt me if i don't look at it 
main osprey
Wait is that a custom shade emoji
solid hazel
I love hera, but it's not better than chiron in current build
mellow quest
10 damage bow special just feels bad
fossil compass
I tried chiron on skelly, it seems like the targetting expire so soon
pastel jolt
like this one: 
cunning urchin
RIP Chiron
09/2020 – 10/2020
It was a short life, but a good one.
fossil compass
what's a good build for both of them? That doesnt realy on daed hammer
unkempt zephyr
for me its feels average. like almost all weapons in game. ) i agree with this. But still OP with demeter on special.
main osprey
Tempest Flourish on Chiron
abstract island
:( the ares-athena duo proc deletes the ares-aphrodite duo effect
cunning urchin
What? Tempest Flourish?
abstract island
oh, yeah, the knockback is intense
cunning urchin
Heartbreak Strike, Deadly Flourish, Heart Rend.
Deadly Strike, Heartbreak Flourish, Heart Rend.
Pick one of those. That's Chiron.
main osprey
Heartbreak + Unhealthy Fixation
cunning urchin
Can't charm anything that's dead.
abstract island
tempest flourish, zeus cast, sea storm
unkempt zephyr
For me chiron all time be with Demeter special. free 80-120 damage with Huge scaling and chill effect.
cunning urchin
Can't charm anything that's double dead. 
main osprey
True
mighty ermine
isn't sea storm poseidon still subject to the internal bolt cooldown though
fossil compass
right, thanks all
so chiron is alright?
The way you play is attack to tag, and spam special?
main osprey
Yup
mighty ermine
yeah i'm referring to someone else, not you swan
abstract island
for real though, I just got my dream gilgamesh build up and running but it just doesn't work, it feels real bad
main osprey
Special speed from Hermes on Chiron, the +4 shot hammer, those are core imo
fossil compass
yeah I can't rely on hammer though 😦
mighty ermine
gilgamesh unfortunately has a bit of a knack for not always working great
fossil compass
For hera, quick question, if my cast are the aphrodite and dio casts, will it still get stuck in the enemy?
spare flare
Are we discussing the best Chiron build(s)?
cunning urchin
I only know of the CD applying to Thunder Flourish. I don't know about it affecting any other lightning bolt boons.
main osprey
Aphrodite, yes if they fixed it, Dio no
unkempt zephyr
Special speed from Hermes on Chiron, the +4 shot hammer, those are core imo
@main osprey Yup. and with demeter...its "winter comes"
opal lodge
does anyone else use ruthless reflex with gilgamesh
main osprey
They function normally @fossil compass
mighty ermine
@opal lodge yes
fossil compass
I don't want to regret this lol
unkempt zephyr
does anyone else use ruthless reflex with gilgamesh
@opal lodge all. its to huge buff to avoid it on claws.
solid hazel
Assuming I remember to switch it haha
main osprey
Hera is good from the start
fossil compass
yeah, I have 16 blood to max it out
abstract island
https://imgur.com/a/Nc309Yo feels real bad that I merciful end consumes curse of longing
main osprey
Chiron you need to max for it to be worth it
cunning urchin
The way you play is attack to tag, and spam special?
Special has a CD that gives you enough time to land a Dash-Strike Power Shot inbetween.
mighty ermine
CoL and ME have anti-synergy, yeah
cunning urchin
So you're just going Dash Strike > Volley > repeat.
main osprey
Unless you get the Special speed boon
opal lodge
does CoL feel slightly underpowered for me
main osprey
In which case, spam it to Hades
fossil compass
alright, artemis-aphrodite combo, or demeter special
got it
be right back, time to try it out
I hope I don't regret this
opal lodge
or die like a hero
main osprey
You can revert to before you purchased Chiron
abstract island
Curse of longing gilgamesh is amazing imo, I just purge all the boons I can except the core ones and keep persephone's trinket on
cunning urchin
Curse of Longing being good but obsolete has been a problem for like the whole year now lol.
mighty ermine
curse of longing has been on a rollercoaster from absolutely broken, to bad, to where it is now
spare flare
If you get Heart Rend via, say, an Aid boon, would Frost Flourish be the best special? Why?
unkempt zephyr
alright, artemis-aphrodite combo, or demeter special
@fossil compass you can add to demeter....artemis and poseidon.and have Realy good special and amazing cast in. don't dwell on one ability
fossil compass
I might have gone to my bedroom to reset mirror
opal lodge
@spare flare i like the increased chance of crit on the special either way but im not a numbers guy
fossil compass
can I still give up and refund blood?
abstract island
I guess I should replace athena with dio when I try for this build, then
cunning urchin
@spare flare on Chiron? No, you'd still want Deadly Flourish assuming that you have Heartbreak Strike.
mighty ermine
the game autosaved upon entering your room
cunning urchin
When you have Heart Rend, you want everything to be crits or Weak or both.
mighty ermine
so it saved the blood investment
spare flare
Understandable.
cunning urchin
Even if you pick up boons from Lord Ares and Lady Aphrodite in Tartarus now, no one is like, I'll go for Curse of Longing now.
You're either going for Merciful End or for Heart Rend.
fossil compass
Thanks for suggestions friends 🙂
opal lodge
LOL this entire time ive been running curse of longing on the shield of chaos for my higher heat runs
time to switch over
spare flare
Heartbreak is stronger overall, but with Heart Rend, Deadly comes out better, right?
cunning urchin
Right.
spare flare
So Heartbreak Strike and Deadly Flourish would be ideal, but inverted is good, too.
solid hazel
Well yes but also without heart rend DS can be potentially stronger
cunning urchin
Yeah, doesn't really matter tbh since everything is gonna die from a very safe distance, either way.
solid hazel
The crit gives a 1.3x benefit for all additive special damage
spare flare
Fair point, too.
solid hazel
So like if you get lucky with two chaos special boons, I bet DF would beat HF even without heart rend
spare flare
And basically everything is additive, yeah.
solid hazel
Sorry it's actually 1.4x on DF
cunning urchin
Heart Rend is multiplicative. All your crits to 1.5x damage more than normal.
solid hazel
The crits are multiplicative, but everything else usually additive
mighty ermine
crits essentially do 4.5x the normal damage instead of 3.0x
solid hazel
Shouldn't it be 3.5?
spare flare
Right, right, crits are a damage multiplier, but all of the other bonuses are +X%, which are additive with one another.
mighty ermine
nah, it's 4.5x
cunning urchin
No, it's 4.5.
spare flare
Wow, big, fat damage.
cunning urchin
3 * 1.5 = 4.5.
solid hazel
Oh thr heart rend itself is multiplicative on the crit haha
unkempt pagoda
in contrast, clean kill is additive
mighty ermine
yeah, that's why heart rend is so incredible nate
solid hazel
I assumed it would be additive, but why have consistency
spare flare
ME versus HR: Go.
unkempt pagoda
honestly heart rend’s description should be changed to match additive but whatever
cunning urchin
Clean Kill is "Critical Damage" and Heart Rend is "Bonus Critical Damage".
solid hazel
So with heart rend all additive bonuses will get 2.4x modifier
cunning urchin
Isn't it obvious from the descriptions how they work?
solid hazel
On df
unkempt pagoda
spare flare
So if Clean Kill says +22%, that's on the crit multiplier (i.e. 3.22 * damage), or is it a +22% additive buff on the base damage, which is then multiplied by the usual 3?
unkempt pagoda
3.22x multiplier
spare flare
Hot.
solid hazel
Oh good... More consistency
mighty ermine
lmao
solid hazel
If this was consistent with heart rend it should be 3x1.22
fossil compass
erm so if I miss a hammer on charon's shop, say, by 2 gold, do I lose out on the hammer in tartarus and ashpodel?
unkempt pagoda
consistency? don’t know her
cunning urchin
No. Clean Kill is "Critical Damage". Heart Rend is "Bonus Critical Damage".
It's logical.
unkempt pagoda
ck is additive, hr is multiplicative
cunning urchin
I don't know about you, but personally, it was obvious to me immediately when I read the description how it worked.
solid hazel
Is it really that hard for them to just put that crits do 3x damage and additive does +x%?
It seems like a pretty simple solution
solid cairn
if im running poseidon cast on achilles should I go infernal or stygian soul
mighty ermine
infernal
cunning urchin
Hmmm. Blizzard Shot doesn't lodge, though.
Well, I guess Infernal is still better for bursting through boss phases.
mighty ermine
yep
cinder flower
is dionysus still best for chaos aegis or does zeus or ares outshine it
cunning urchin
But Stygian Soul with +2 ammo is very entertaining.
solid hazel
Why not stygian soul with +5
solid cairn
I am trying very hard to like achilles
cunning urchin
Because there's practically no difference between +2 and +5 lol.
Infinite ammo either way.
mighty ermine
stygian with +casts and glacial stare crystal clarity is hilarious
solid cairn
like I just dont enjoy it
solid hazel
Well there is if your casts don't do any damage haha
solid cairn
yeah this isn't fun for me
cunning urchin
That's alright. I don't enjoy every aspect, either.
opal lodge
i am also trying hard to like it but cant find boons that feel right
i tried doing the arty/ares blade rift cast thing
felt awkward
rancid socket
kenetic launcher for gauntlet is a very fun hammer upgrade, pairs really well with knockback boons or damage over time ones
it bacically turns into a bow of sorts
fossil compass
huh, chiron is really good
cunning urchin
I'm not the biggest fan of Slicing Shot builds.
solid hazel
Hunting blades nerfed somehow... Don't know how but I can just tell its a lot weaker than it was blood pact
cunning urchin
Maybe try Eletric Shot or maybe Lightning Phalanx?
opal lodge
will try those and see how it feels
cunning urchin
- Slicing Shot (Ares): increased damage; reduced rate-of-attack to compensate
opal lodge
i have been using stygian soul with achilles which feels right but maybe infernal is more deeps if youre playing right?
cunning urchin
Stygian Soul works better with non-lodging casts like Slicing Shot, but you'll definitely want +1 ammo at least for better burst damage. So hunt for Chaos Gates.
And buy +1 ammo from Wells.
solid cairn
the problem I have with achilles is that it feels like I fire off a cast that has a good chance of whiffing or being dodged by the enemy and then I'm stuck swinging around a wet noodle for a bit
opal lodge
wet noodle LOL
yeah i definitely feel the same way
idk gonna keep trying to force it
cunning urchin
Hmmm? Achilles gets +150% Attack damage after using Raging Rush.
solid hazel
Wait boiling blood and abysal blood don't stack right?
opal lodge
esp since im too bad to use guan yu smh
cunning urchin
They don't stack, no.
solid hazel
So why is stygian better with non lodging?
cunning urchin
Because you can cast more often.
Lodging casts will drop when you kill the enemy, so you can pick them up immediately and keep casting.
Non-lodging casts don't.
solid hazel
Oh I see
empty prairie
Is heartbreak the best attack for nemesis?
cunning urchin
It's the best for DPS.
empty prairie
Splash dash, heartbreak strike, Zeus cast, Zeus aid, maybe some crit boost?
empty prairie
Ah ok.
cunning urchin
I start with the Owl Pendant practically every time for Nemesis or Malphon.
solid hazel
How does HS with dd compare to Divine strike with Hunter dash dps wise?
I would guess the former is more dps
cunning urchin
At low heats, you don't need Deflect. But it will always be a lot easier if you do have it.
solid hazel
Could be wrong thojgh
cunning urchin
Divine Strike + Hunter Dash lets you more easily get Deadly Reversal.
empty prairie
Super Nova, breaching slash or Shadow slash? I'm assuming Shadow?
cunning urchin
I don't know how exactly Hunter Dash scales now. I imagine Heartbreak Strike would win.
Especially if you get both Heart Rend and Deadly Reversal.
solid hazel
Breaching slash and shadow slash don't affect your dash attack
So... If you play mostly dash attacks which is kinda considered optimal, both of those are petty useless
stiff jacinth
What's better with Aspect of Chiron, Relentless Volley or Concentrated Volley?
solid hazel
Relentless most of the time
But I could see if you were doing drunken flourish maybe concentrarted
cloud barn
do breaching and shadow slash really not affect dash attack?
solid hazel
Current build though deadly deadly flourish or heartbreak flourish are both much stronger than drunken flourish
Might be changing soon haha
Yeah they don't...
cloud barn
because all attack slot boons affect both attack and dash attack, idk why daedalus upgrades would be different
empty prairie
Wait what? Well damn. That explains a lot.
stiff jacinth
Thanks 🙂
solid hazel
Because consistency is a top priority for SG /s
My number one complaint in an amazing game
sly night
How does doom work? I dont think it stacks, does it go off even if you keepp attacking the same target?
empty prairie
There is a boon that kind of stacks it but yes, it'll go off if you keep hitting the same target.
brisk trench
TIL Rare Crop can absolutely randomly choose itself
solid hazel
Really I've never seen that happen
Was it "forced" to because there weren't enough other boons for it to hit?
solid hazel
Okay
brisk trench
I only thought it picked itself cause it shows up as common in my boons tab
But I reread it
solid hazel
Oh haha
empty prairie
Which aspect?
brisk trench
Also which hammer upgrade
sly night
dont have aspect yet
solid hazel
Rocket bomb is awesome
sly night
I do have the 3x rocket bomb upgrade tho
drifting vale
Zeus attack is always praised on rail
solid hazel
Maybe Poisedon if you want to see things fly around the screen
rancid socket
i have a very hard decision
brisk trench
They want to know for the special specifically Jester
drifting vale
Ah missed that
brisk trench
Doom Special is OK, aphro is always solid
rancid socket
go for a heroic heartbreak florish which replaces my epic drunken florish or get epic life affermation
which is the better option
solid hazel
It would be very amusing to do Poisedon special with 3x rocket bombs
cunning urchin
@rancid socket what aspect?
solid hazel
Amusing doesn't equal good though haha
rancid socket
wym what aspect
brisk trench
@cunning urchin Aspect 1
solid hazel
With 3x rocket bomb, doom seems really unoptimal
brisk trench
Probably no upgrades
rancid socket
whats an aspect
cunning urchin
What weapon are you using?
brisk trench
Rail
rancid socket
oh, gauntlets
untold iris
i like aphrodite or demeter on special (for rail) as an easy way to work towards priviledged status
solid hazel
Ichor hasn't specified an aspect, that was somebody else
brisk trench
Oh ichor is talking about something else my b
cunning urchin
Yeah, get Heartbreak Flourish.
stiff jacinth
If I get Hunter's Mark with Aspect of Chiron, can the same attack both proc and trigger the mark?
cunning urchin
If you're new, the #h1-for-new-players channel is free of spoilers—unlike this channel here. 
cunning urchin
There's also a simple build guide pinned in #h1-for-new-players that might help you out.
No, I was talking to Ichor lol.
rancid socket
posiden dash, razor shoal, hyper sprint, kenetic launcher, heartbreak florish, abyisal favour and dying lament - is shaping out to be a really good run if i dont die with my 10 hp
cunning urchin
@stiff jacinth Hunter's Mark is only applied to a different target than the one you're hitting with a crit.
10 HP, yikes. That's not a lot.
solid hazel
That's like 3 butterfly. It's plenty
cunning urchin
Butterflies do 3 damage, so it's 4 hits.
solid hazel
Well 3 he can take without dying, should have specified
rancid socket
ok i died - the bomb throwers are the most annoying enemy especially since i dont have sprint deflect
solid hazel
Although honestly didn't want to get that specific for sarcasm...
rancid socket
keep forgetting they drop bombs once dead
unkempt zephyr
@stiff jacinth Hunter's Mark is only applied to a different target than the one you're hitting with a crit.
@cunning urchin and this insanely good. if you can attack 2 or more targets pet attack.
cunning urchin
Yeah, Hunter's Mark is great.
@rancid socket yeah, Malphon works best with Divine Strike or Divine Dash or both.
unkempt zephyr
But its hard to realize on some aspect and in some build.(mark)
stiff jacinth
Can I ask one more dumb question? :3
cunning urchin
No.
stiff jacinth
:<
solid hazel
Mmhm.. Fiinnne
unkempt zephyr
🤣
stiff jacinth
:>
stiff jacinth
How does Pressure Points interact with other abilities that can crit? Does it add a flat number?
cunning urchin
Crit chance is additive, yes.
sly night
who else has a good auto other than zeus for rail
solid hazel
Lol I'm never going to speculate if something is additive or multiplicative again
sly night
demeter is just a lot of base damage right
solid hazel
Might as well flip a coin
unkempt zephyr
yup. its just + crit chance to all attack. BUT with one exception how i know.all Zeus dont ctit.
cunning urchin
Frost Strike isn't a lot of base damage, no.
untold iris
wait is hunters mark actually good? I've been not prioritizing it because its hard to apply to bosses
sly night
they should just adopt the POEism of "more=mulyiplicative" increased=additive
untold iris
and i usually die on bosses, if at all
solid hazel
Does it have bad pom scaling? Cuz the base level is same as divine strike
cunning urchin
They scale the same. But Divine Strike base damage isn't very high, either.
unkempt zephyr
wait is hunters mark actually good? I've been not prioritizing it because its hard to apply to bosses
@untold iris insanely good if you know how use it.
cunning urchin
Well, Divine and Frost Strike are about as strong as Deadly Strike without any t2 crit boons or anything.
solid hazel
Yeah i always though of them as midtier for percentage damage
cunning urchin
Mid tier sounds about right.
stiff jacinth
Chill is mostly good when you get synergies with it
solid hazel
Like better than doom, Zeus or Poisedon on attack if you're not rapidly striking
cunning urchin
Anything is better than Tempest Strike.
cunning urchin
Shackle is better than Tempest Strike.
solid hazel
It's antisynergy with most melee weapons
And on top of that has like the worst damage in almost all cases
unkempt zephyr
I went to implement my realy dirty ideas on Lucifer. Its be crit build)
untold iris
i think the only time I was happy to have tempest strike on a melee weapon was on a guan yu run
solid hazel
You'd think it should get top tier damage since it's so annoying to use
untold iris
since the knockback kept enemies inside of the swirly spin attack
cunning urchin
Yet for some reason, everyone was running Tempest Strike on Lucifer when they added the aspect lol.
solid hazel
It's funny...
sly night
https://imgur.com/a/p2Fiy1b
man this is sad. Always double boon right?
unkempt zephyr
I be have aphro and artemis on Lucif)
cunning urchin
I think it's fine, though. Poseidon has other qualities. Somebody's gotta be the worst at anything.
rancid socket
should i go for a cast build, chaos gate is giving me +74% cast damage
its either that or 55%+ gold
cunning urchin
Tempest Strike gets a whole lot better with Sea Storm, too.
unkempt zephyr
and fishing is the best
@untold iris That my boy)👍
solid hazel
Yeah my friend was running tempest strike, sea storm, splitting bolt on lucifer... It seemed okay
cunning urchin
@sly night what are you hoping to get from the trial chamber?
solid hazel
Still worse than any Eris run haha
solid hazel
Eris has the stupid factor for me though... As in it makes me do stupid things
sly night
I have no idea my build right now has triple bomb+chill +Zap on dash+jolted
solid hazel
Like dashing into the explosion even if I get hit
I can't wait around to reload special...
cunning urchin
What chamber are you in? It'll show you if you open your boon menu.
Top-right corner.
sly night
28
cunning urchin
Yeah, take the trial, I guess.
spare flare
Damage talk:
Most things are additive.
Critical hits apply a multiplier. By default, it's 3.
Clean Kill is additive with the crit multiplier, e.g. +22% = a 3.22 factor.
Heart Rend is a multiplier on the crit coefficient, so 4.5 by default, or 4.83 with the 22% Clean Kill example.
@cunning urchin Is that right?
cunning urchin
3.22 * 1.5 = 4.83
solid hazel
Also charged skewer hammer for spear is multiplicative? Maybe charged volley too
untold iris
i think charge effects increase base damage, right?
so that stacks multiplicatively with boons
cunning urchin
Charged Skewer is base damage, yes. Hence effectively multiplicative.
solid hazel
Oh is that how it works...
cunning urchin
And yeah, all the "Charged" hammers work like that.
spare flare
Is that not what I ty- ahaha, whoops. Thanks for the catch.
solid hazel
Not hoarding slash though... Thats gotta be the most confusing text description
empty prairie
Does world splitter affect dash strikes?
hearty elbow
Yes, it's pretty confusing because the text would have you believe it does something, when in fact...
solid hazel
Nope... Also world splitter I can't think of a single scenario where it's good
cunning urchin
Hoarding Slash is "bonus damage".
spare flare
Wow, weak.
solid hazel
I thought we established bonus damage was multiplicative based on heart rend haha
cunning urchin
No.
hearty elbow
Heart Rend damage is Heart Rend
cunning urchin
That was "Bonus Critical Damage".
empty prairie
Well I'm using nemesis and just got my second hammer. Hoarding slash, world splitter and flurry slash. So I guess I'm going flurry. Haha
solid hazel
Which is not a analogous to bonus damage at all
cunning urchin
Exactly.
solid hazel
Makes perfect sense now
spare flare
Okay, let's try that again.
Damage talk:
Most things are additive.
Critical hits apply a multiplier. By default, it's 3.
Clean Kill is additive with the crit multiplier, e.g. +22% = a 3.22 factor.
Heart Rend is a multiplier on the crit coefficient, so 4.5 by default, or 4.83 with the 22% Clean Kill example.
Hammer boons that affect charging functions are modifiers of base damage. Like all other forms of base damage adjustment, that makes them effectively multiplicative.
Things that say "bonus damage," of course, mean exactly that: They deal their own damage as an on-hit effect, so they don't scale with anything. Hoarding Slash is a particularly weak example.
solid hazel
With nemesis you hope for double edge and everything else is anvil fodder
spare flare
Am I missing anything non-onvious?
cunning urchin
Hoarding Slash is literally the only thing that does that lol.
untold iris
but what if you get flurry + hoarding slash and live the dream against hades instead of buying the titan blood?
solid hazel
I vote sticky!
spare flare
Is it? Okay. Are Zeus boons and Support Fire drastically different? They're their own attacks, at least, but they also don't scale with anything, right?
solid hazel
They do with all damage bonus like ff and pv I thought
cunning urchin
Yeah.
spare flare
Oh, wait, Pressure Points, right?
cunning urchin
Hoarding Slash supposedly does not scale with anything at all.
spare flare
Wow.
