h1-builds-and-combat

[hearty elbow]

It... exists

[half crater]

second wave is funny

[calm oyster]

you can take conch and get another prereq from that guaranteed boon and then be in the running for huge catch early

[half crater]

what more could you want?

[calm oyster]

looks like it makes farming fish a bit more reliable

[potent ember]

I imagine its at least goof for sea storm for more lightning

[thin sequoia]

Second Wave is great against trash and busy rooms, which is not what I'm generally building to deal with

[calm oyster]

i imagine second wave makes styx ridic ez

[turbid needle]

i mean the dmg is kinda nutty tbh

[hearty elbow]

Would I take common razor shoals over second wave every time? Yes, every time.

[thin sequoia]

yeah

[turbid needle]

the whirling blades + bad news combo lol

[half crater]

Would I take common razor shoals over second wave every time? Yes, every time.
@hearty elbow ye but what if the choice was common razor shoals, second wave or huge catch?

[hearty elbow]

Only exception is if I'm low on boons and I think I can rake in that good good Purging gold

[half crater]

now THAT would be a tough call

so many hard decision

[hearty elbow]

Lol, if I'm offered Huge Catch before a chaos room or Dad's room it's pretty tempting.

I have never been offered Huge Catch.

[half crater]

wait literally never?

[hearty elbow]

Other than the time he violated Zagreus' body with it

[potent ember]

idea for funny poseidon legendary - everytime a foe is knocked back, their body becomes a projectile that deals damage and knocks back other enemies colliding with them

[hearty elbow]

GTFO Poseidon, why did you steal my god slot and room 1 boon

[half crater]

poor poseidon

sometimes i feel sorry for him

[hearty elbow]

He's a bad cross section of narcissistic, mean, and stupid though.

[reef galleon]

No need to worry for him, he's the only god that has a boon with the word "pounding" in it.

[hearty elbow]

And his boons reflect that lmao. Poseidon's AId, we good bro.

[half crater]

i mean, i said sometimes

[unkempt pagoda]

he's the only god that says the line "liquid justice"

[calm oyster]

it feels so satisfying getting good enough to consistently dodge ||hades' spin attack|| using iframes without actually leaving the aoe

[reef galleon]

he's the only god that can make waves with his nephew

[half crater]

liquid justice would be a great name for a band

actually it would be a rubbish name, but i still wish it were a real band

[quaint warren]

he's the only god that says the line "liquid justice"
@unkempt pagoda I'm sold

[hearty elbow]

it feels so satisfying getting good enough to consistently dodge ||hades' spin attack|| using iframes without actually leaving the aoe
@calm oyster It feels anti-satisfying to learn the timing to muscle memory on FO2 then trying 0 FO again much later and getting absolutely destroyed

[potent ember]

liquid justice when they see solid crime

[unkempt pagoda]

https://i.redd.it/84erkbxx9fc41.png

[potent ember]

hmmmmmm

[half crater]

“... ready to get wet, or no?”

[hearty elbow]

Out of curiosity on release, I tried 10 heat EM4, and I lost my acorn to 5 spins before the Soul Catcher ever appeared

[potent ember]

they really put that in the game tho huh

[hearty elbow]

EAT IT SOUL CATCHERS, i DON'T NEED YOU

[potent ember]

soul catchers suck. turns the game into a bullet hell

[half crater]

haha, outwitted the soul catchers

bet they really felt like fools

[potent ember]

it is funny to just put arthur aura around a soul catcher tho

[unkempt pagoda]

when you get double doomstones and now the battlefield looks like a laser rave from a cyberpunk game

[hearty elbow]

I've accidentally run into a wall of slowed spinning blades before with Excal

Power move

[potent ember]

oof

[half crater]

can’t let those sawblades think you’re scared of them or something

that’s what i always say

when i get hit for the 6th time in a row

[hearty elbow]

My absolute favorite is when you have the aura slightly offscreen holding back a swarm of homing projectiles, then the aura ends

The timing window for you to reapply the aura is extremely ungenerous

After one wears off*

[half crater]

why is arthur special so slow lmao

[unkempt pagoda]

it's big

[half crater]

my brain literally cannot parse that weapon

[potent ember]

cuz beeg sword

[worn crypt]

You can hit the special and dash to cancel the animation but the attack will still happen

[unkempt pagoda]

you can dash-carry the special like you can with the attack

[worn crypt]

Is dash-carry the term? That is what I meant

[potent ember]

can dash carry special with all sword aspects

[half crater]

i always take a pile of damage and am demonstrably bad at it, but whenever i get a 5k crit my brain goes “big number dopamine yus” and i can’t stop kinda liking it

[hearty elbow]

We don't really have terms

Which is weird for a gaming community now that I think about it lol. People love naming crap

[worn crypt]

Sounds like we have the term dash carry™

[potent ember]

I propose "poor man's dash nova"

[half crater]

or rich man’s dash nova

because not having dash nova is better than having it

[hearty elbow]

i always take a pile of damage and am demonstrably bad at it, but whenever i get a 5k crit my brain goes “big number dopamine yus” and i can’t stop kinda liking it
@half crater Yes, this is why we all like Arthur lol

[turbid needle]

is there any way to catch legendary fish

or is it all just luck

[hearty elbow]

.35 seconds

[unkempt pagoda]

can dash carry special with all sword aspects
well yeah, but it's important on arthur cause of how slow it is

[turbid needle]

i realise this isn't combat specific

[unkempt pagoda]

We don't really have terms
Which is weird for a gaming community now that I think about it lol. People love naming crap
did i just invent a new term 😛

[hearty elbow]

Is a Perfect Catch, which gives a good percentage of a legendary fish. People have said 5% but I think that's insane, I have streaked legendaries for so long so many times

[turbid needle]

wait what does that mean

perfect catch?

[unkempt pagoda]

if you catch fast, you get a perfect catch instead of a regular one

[hearty elbow]

When bobber goes down, if you catch within .35 seconds, it guarantees rare fish and gives shot at legendary

[turbid needle]

oh i swore

oh poop

gotcha

i'll try to be speedy now then

never knew that was a factor

[half crater]

yeah it’s supposed to be 5%, but anecdotally i swear i get legendaries like 50% of my perfect catches

maybe not that many

[hearty elbow]

I think the number is actuall 50%

But I have no data to back that up

[unkempt pagoda]

i don't get perfect catches, so i can't tell you 💔

[worn crypt]

Is it worth it to charge up Kinetic Shot? Kinda feels like just getting the backstab with no charge is better, enemies usually have turned around by the time charge it up.

[hearty elbow]

I don't know how much more damage the Power Shot does

But it increases range too

Shrug. Feels so fun to do it with Demeter Fist

[unkempt pagoda]

i mean, it's not like it's that hard to do a power launch

[worn crypt]

Well generally I am punching the enemy then just dash behind for immediate backstab

[unkempt pagoda]

plus unga bunga big flash go faster

[worn crypt]

I didn't even realize you could charge it until this current run tbh

[hearty elbow]

With Kinetic Launcher it's nice to be able to damage when during windows where you'd normally need to wait

[half crater]

like freakin’ asterius spinning for 14 years

[unkempt pagoda]

having a ranged option for a usually entirely melee weapon is great

plus it brings a little bit of Bow™️ into the weapon

[potent ember]

long knuckle + kinetic launcher for ranged fists

[unkempt pagoda]

and how good is a weapon really if it doesn't have a bit of Bow in it 😛

[hearty elbow]

Long Knuckle + Kinetic Launcher brings a lot of bow to Malphon lol

[unkempt pagoda]

it's also why minotaur rush is shield's best hammer

i can power rush for 240 damage unupgraded? yes pls

[half crater]

the bow, of course, is the platonic ideal of a weapon to which all other weapons must be compared

[prisma raven]

gun aspect 4 is weird. should i get flash fire or greater inferno

[hearty elbow]

"Shield's best hammer" is such a poorly contested position

[potent ember]

charged shot + minotaur rush for a bow that blocks while firing lmao

[unkempt pagoda]

you should press Give Up and play eris instead ❤️

[hearty elbow]

@prisma raven Flash Fire x1000

[prisma raven]

sounds good

[hearty elbow]

Lucifer is SO SLOW and short ranged without it

[turbid needle]

speaking of which

[unkempt pagoda]

i'm imagining a world rn where seeking fire is compatible with lucy

[turbid needle]

does lucifer feel weird to anyone else?

on a controller

like it's just so janky

[unkempt pagoda]

and the laser is just bending around to different enemies

[hearty elbow]

Yeah we talked about that at length about an hour ago lmao

[potent ember]

lucifer is kinda weird on controller

[turbid needle]

oh lol

[marsh pumice]

no because kbm

[turbid needle]

i wasnt there for that

[prisma raven]

i play keyboard and mouse so idk

[unkempt pagoda]

lucy is just weird in general

i don't like it and i'm on kbm

[potent ember]

the game Monolith does a homing laser pretty well

[prisma raven]

i think it aims just fine

[half crater]

lucy is just trying it’s best

pity it’s best is rubbish

[turbid needle]

oof

[hearty elbow]

@turbid needle You're not imagining it, it is trash, and we have requested SGG address it already in a lot of ways, so here's hoping

[marsh pumice]

or people not trying their best

[unkempt pagoda]

if lucy's best was enough, he wouldn't be in hell rn

[turbid needle]

yeah i hope it'll get some tuning

[prisma raven]

the only problem is trying to aim at the hellfire if it's right by an enemy, which it probably is because you're supposed to be shooting it at enemies

[turbid needle]

thanks for the concrete answer

[unkempt pagoda]

the only thing lucy has going for it is the SICK aesthetic and visual design

[prisma raven]

which verse of the bible was it where god said "get out of here lucifer" and lucifer said "not today god" and pulled out a gun

[steep mural]

Aspect of Gilgamesh feels soo underwhelming... the damage takes soo long to activate...

[half crater]

pew pew laser gun

[hearty elbow]

Oh i know right. Every Strike boon looks soooo pretty on Lucifer

[half crater]

ye changed my mind lucy is great

[turbid needle]

i like gilgamesh

[steep mural]

i justually kill mobs before the proc happens from Gilgamesh

[prisma raven]

i thought gilgamesh was weirdly underwhelming too

[unkempt pagoda]

divine flourish hellfire? GORGEOUS

[steep mural]

i feel likt it proces just on bosses

[turbid needle]

guan yu sucks so bad tho

or maybe i'm just bad

u bad

[hearty elbow]

@steep mural It is underwhelming, yes. I started a Dash Upper a month ago and I'm still patiently waiting for the recovery frames to end.

[prisma raven]

guan yu isn't bad but it definitely takes time to get used to

[turbid needle]

feels like the drawbacks are way too big

[prisma raven]

you have to play really safely

[turbid needle]

ah i see

the thing i cant

[prisma raven]

like really safely because every time you get hit you need to heal up asap

[turbid needle]

that ain't me chief

just spam special

[hearty elbow]

Over-reliance on GY spin is a huge deal. After a certain heat threshold Spin becomes both too unsafe and too slow

[prisma raven]

or otherwise take out a mortgage to level it up all the way so you don't sacrifice as much max life

[hearty elbow]

Just special stuff to death

[prisma raven]

oh yeah guan yu special is pretty good

[steep mural]

Aspect of Demeter > Aspect of Gilgamesh in my opinion 🙂

[prisma raven]

or if you get lucky with the hammer you can get quick charge

[turbid needle]

yeah i got that one time

[hearty elbow]

Yeah it's not really a contest. Gilgamesh does Merciful End fantastically though

[turbid needle]

only reason i got to hades with that weapon

[marsh pumice]

just take Quick Spin for GY and spin to win

[steep mural]

im still not that deep into game 7/8 heat

[prisma raven]

guan yu is one of my favorite spears but it's scary to use because my playstyle with other weapons is very aggressive

[turbid needle]

hah i'm only on heat 4

[steep mural]

still a lot to unlock

[prisma raven]

gilgamesh is weird for me because i have trouble inputting dash-uppers sometimes with kbm

[steep mural]

Lucifer aspect on my rail doesnt want to unlock also... already invested like 10 blood into rail, got zeus at almost max bond and meet him multiple times after investing 5+ bloods

[hearty elbow]

The general advice right now is to just never Maim

[steep mural]

still no proper message to unlock it

[prisma raven]

if i'm trying to move left or down-left it's hard to hit Q and space at the same time

[marsh pumice]

just bound special to alt EZ

[solid cairn]

my special has always been right click ever since I bought the game

[half crater]

The general advice right now is to just never Maim
@hearty elbow maim only gilg run when

[prisma raven]

i guess that could work. seems weird tho

[steep mural]

im playing on switch, so my dash is on B and special on Y

[prisma raven]

i also tried binding special to my side mouse button

i feel like that would be more successful if i gave myself time to get used to it

[solid cairn]

it's perfect for me

[hearty elbow]

You can meme pretty hard with Doom + Maim + Curse of Longing

[half crater]

dash only gilg run? nah

[steep mural]

im thinking about getting hori split pad pro for additonal button on bottom of switch

[half crater]

NO dash gilg run

only special

[solid cairn]

no dash run is just really hard let alone gilgamesh

[half crater]

you’re not wrong

[solid cairn]

it is quite a bit harder than dash only

[half crater]

yup

[solid cairn]

on 0 heat at least

[potent ember]

has anyone ever tried the challenge where u clear the game on ur first run on a new save file? im trying to do that rn

[half crater]

kinda tempting, right?

on 0 heat at least
@solid cairn what is 0 heat

[hearty elbow]

Yeah tried for a while, it was fun except for the fact that Zag sword is not

[half crater]

pretty sure it doesn’t go that low

[solid cairn]

no modifiers

the base difficulty

[thin sequoia]

guan yu is fantastic but a little less flexible to build than other comparably strong aspects IMO

[potent ember]

that challenge sucks tho since no mirror upgrades, no aspects, zag sword sucks, no keepsakes, no chaos gates, no hammers...

[solid cairn]

there is a fresh file category for speedruns, but that involves a few deaths

I think im gonna run it a bit just to get out of the habit of tanking hades

[prisma raven]

i forgot gilgamesh gives you extra dashes

that's like. weirdly simultaneously really good and really underwhelming, as someone who uses reflexes

[solid cairn]

you can also dash by holding down the button

[hearty elbow]

They even put in a QoL auto dash feature to prevent carpal tunnel. I wish they discovered that technology with Beowulf and Hera

[potent ember]

gilgamesh rapid dashes have a weird delay between them tho ive noticed

[prisma raven]

oh, huh

[half crater]

why would you what that for beo and hera?

for casts, i presume?

[hearty elbow]

Yeah for casts

[half crater]

i feel like that’d just be annoying

[solid cairn]

flurry cast

[half crater]

i got flurry cast on beo once, and i just ended up accidentally loading more casts than necessary for killing mobs

pretty sure it actually slowed down my room clearing

[hearty elbow]

Honestly it's probably worth for me (if it's even offered lol). They get sooo spammy especially after the 3rd bloodstone

[unkempt pagoda]

They even put in a QoL auto dash feature to prevent carpal tunnel. I wish they discovered that technology with Beowulf and Hera
this existed once, for like a patch's length of time

[solid cairn]

I don't like beo or hera at all

they are just not fun for me

[half crater]

with enough casts it probably does become worth it

[potent ember]

when is it best to use stygian soul?

[unkempt pagoda]

but apparently the auto-reloading did some funky things mechanically so they took it away

[solid cairn]

I just dont like cast weapons, besides poseidon sword

[worn citrus]

How exactly does brilliant riposte work? Let's say I have athena dash and then get brilliant riposte. I need to dash into someone and then they will take more backstab damage for a while? Or do they only take extra backup damage TO the ability that can deflect?

[solid cairn]

even then I'm not a big fan

[prisma raven]

hera is my favorite bow

[unkempt pagoda]

How exactly does brilliant riposte work? Let's say I have athena dash and then get brilliant riposte. I need to dash into someone and then they will take more backstab damage for a while? Or do they only take extra backup damage TO the ability that can deflect?
the former

[hearty elbow]

@potent ember Stygian Soul is legit with Achilles + Crystal Beam + Glacial Glare + Crystal Clarity

[unkempt pagoda]

it's like curse of agony, your attack applies the doom effect

brilliant riposte makes it so your deflective abilities apply the exposed effect

[solid cairn]

I really dislike trippy shot, slicing shot, and crystal beam

[half crater]

@worn citrus you’re thinking of blinding flash, not brilliant riposte btw

[solid cairn]

so yeah

[prisma raven]

which shot is slicing

is that ares

[solid cairn]

ares

[hearty elbow]

A lot of people like Stygian Soul to not have to worry about picking up bloodstones

[tall yarrow]

Chiron bow is my fav, can get to 2k damage specials if you get the right hammers

[prisma raven]

those are all like. some of my favorites

[unkempt pagoda]

I really dislike trippy shot, slicing shot, and crystal beam
achilles and hera are sad rn

[prisma raven]

trippy shot does a lot of damage on impact

[solid cairn]

yes I dont like those

[potent ember]

wait how does crystal beam work with hera bow lmao

[solid cairn]

I want to like trippy shot but

[hearty elbow]

But even in non-cast runs, Infernal gives you some nice burst sometimes, and has good synergies with Lightning Rod and Ravenous Will

[worn citrus]

@worn citrus you’re thinking of blinding flash, not brilliant riposte btw
100%.

[unkempt pagoda]

honestly i started running infernal soul on non-cast builds because of the chance for lightning rod lol

[worn citrus]

Brilliant riposte just increases deflect damage

[unkempt pagoda]

and that it'd be easy to switch to a cast build if the rng calls for it

[half crater]

is lightning rod good tho

[unkempt pagoda]

yes

[hearty elbow]

It's very free

[half crater]

it’s weird tho lol

[unkempt pagoda]

massive range of attack, attack speed is every second

[hearty elbow]

For LIghtning Strike builds in particular

[unkempt pagoda]

basically free damage on any non-cast build

[hearty elbow]

where Boiling Blood is kind of pointless anyway

[potent ember]

feels kinda weird how so many boons focus on cast stones and leave stygian soul behind

[half crater]

i always accidentally pick up my casts

[hearty elbow]

It deals with Flamewheels, casters, and Dad skulls so well

I don't remember if it kills urns

[unkempt pagoda]

you only need one stone to apply boiling/abyssal blood anyways

[prisma raven]

i would guess not because urns are traps

[hearty elbow]

You never aim for it, you just happen to have Lightning Strike, go for Support Fire, and wham bam sometimes you get Lightning Rod. On Eris in particular it is sooo gas

[unkempt pagoda]

lightning rod has a hidden feature in that it reduces the pick-up range of your stones

[half crater]

feels kinda weird how so many boons focus on cast stones and leave stygian soul behind
@potent ember so many casts have no stones and leave infernal behind tho

[potent ember]

really? i didnt know that

[unkempt pagoda]

feels kinda weird how so many boons focus on cast stones and leave stygian soul behind
this is because these boons existed before stygian soul was in the game lol

[prisma raven]

they don't leave infernal behind

wait what casts don't have bloodstones

[half crater]

really? i didnt know that
@potent ember demeter, ares and dio casts all don’t have stones

[hearty elbow]

He means lodging

[potent ember]

wait i misread i thought the casts that didnt lodge stones still apply blood lmao

brain oof

[prisma raven]

they don't lodge but they definitely drop bloodstone pickups when they're done

[cinder flower]

what are some of the best boons for chiron bow

[half crater]

i mean, stygian is better for them

[potent ember]

nah i knew about ares and demeter and whatnot

[hearty elbow]

what are some of the best boons for chiron bow
@cinder flower Heartbreak Strike + Deadly Flourish, Heartbreak Strike/Curse of Agony + Drunken Flourish

[cinder flower]

thank you

[prisma raven]

oh dang i just realized you can shoot multiple hellfires

and hellfires can set off other hellfires

[frail schooner]

does anyone else like aspect of zeus? it seems like everyone goes for the meta aspect of chaos

[prisma raven]

i like zeus a lot more than chaos

[potent ember]

i just dont know how to use zeus

[frail schooner]

but i like the fact that i can just slap a boon on there and have this debuff blob hit everything

demeter is probably my favorite to use with it

[prisma raven]

you throw out your special and let it ravage some enemies while you run off and fight some other enemies

[jade rover]

Zeus is very very fun, but a little less consistent.

[potent ember]

have a little saw of inconvenience following u all the time

[frail schooner]

LOL i actually do that tho

i like it when it follows me so i throw it and recall

and just dash around to apply debuffs

[unkempt pagoda]

the true meta of zeus shield is getting explosive return and spamming the special button

[frail schooner]

it’s a little bit slower than you are so it can stay like that forever

[prisma raven]

if the enemies don't have shield on them i just let the shield handle them offscreen while i go fight something else

or if i have explosive catch just mash Q and generate explosions

[potent ember]

zeus shield needs a hammer upgrade where the projectile seeks enemies but stays out for shorter duration

[frail schooner]

i never tried that, i always avoided explosive return with zeus disc

cause i figured it means i can’t actually use the disc if i want to blow up stuff

[prisma raven]

it's good for larger rooms because the shield doesn't have to bounce off a wall to come back

[unkempt pagoda]

zeus shield returns to you instantly

so you can spam it with explosive return

[prisma raven]

yeah you can return the shield at will

[frail schooner]

yeah but then it doesn’t do its main dmg

that’s why i avoided it lol

[unkempt pagoda]

the main damage is explosive return 😛

[frail schooner]

but i should try it i guess

[prisma raven]

i mean. explosion damage

i guess if your main damage happens to be greater than lots of explosions

[frail schooner]

lol get that 40% special speed from hermes and go to town

[prisma raven]

by main damage do you just mean the regular damage that the blitz disc does while it's out

[frail schooner]

yeah but mostly boon related dmg

or statuses

normally i went with demeter or zeus on special

[prisma raven]

if the enemy is within explosion distance then chances are the shield will hit them anyway for the brief time it's out

[frail schooner]

fair enough

aspect of zeus more like blade rift 2

[prisma raven]

yes

[unkempt zephyr]

aspect of zeus more like blade rift 2
@frail schooner Its much better.

[prisma raven]

if you have zeus or demeter special tho then i see why you'd want to pick between that or explosion damage

[frail schooner]

chill is op if you’re bad

[prisma raven]

i mean it's more reliable than blade rift but my zeus is low level so it does less damage

unless i get special strength up boons i guess

[unkempt zephyr]

just use zeus special befor lvl full

[golden elm]

Hey what aspect for the bow is considered good?

[frail schooner]

hera

[unkempt zephyr]

all

[prisma raven]

none

i do like hera actually

[unkempt pagoda]

rama

actually all of them

[frail schooner]

the aspect of the bow where you use exagryph instead

[prisma raven]

i don't like rama

[unkempt pagoda]

maybe not chiron when the patch hits, but the rest are great

[prisma raven]

it feels not very strong for how slow it is

[frail schooner]

people who play guan yu are in another dimension

[prisma raven]

guan yu is my favorite spear

rama isn't compatible with my signature bow strategy of getting really close and mashing special

[potent ember]

rama good tho

[frail schooner]

aspect of hera aka aspect of festive fog

[prisma raven]

basically

[frail schooner]

i really wanted blade rifts to be good with hera but no

[prisma raven]

yeah no unfortunately

they don't stay on the target for long enough

[frail schooner]

the boon where blade rifts suck in should be the default

same for crystal beam tbh

[prisma raven]

why for blade rift?

[frail schooner]

maybe the crystal beam seeking is too fast to be default tho

well the sucking in thing makes it stay on an enemy better too

cause when it moves it pulls the thing it’s hitting

[prisma raven]

yeah but that's too good to be default

blade rift without aimbot is perfectly viable

[frail schooner]

aimbot on crystal beam is really fun but it’s locked behind a duo boon and also no boiling blood

[prisma raven]

crystal beam isn't bad at higher levels

[frail schooner]

ya

[prisma raven]

but they're really bad if the enemy moves around too much

[smoky atlas]

em4 redacted just clapped my cheeks

[prisma raven]

i like crystal beam but i never get it unless i have stygian soul on

[frail schooner]

calling it em4 redacted is weird because if there’s a 4th extreme measures it’s obvious who it would be

and if you know what extreme measures is then you already beat that boss

[prisma raven]

does zeus special on lucifer cause constant lightning

[unkempt pagoda]

yes

[unkempt hull]

does anyone have advice on EM4, ive been getting hardwalled

[unkempt zephyr]

demeter aphro help

also athena call

[worn crypt]

He has different attack patterns than without EM. Learning the fight and recognizing how he is going to behave will be the biggest help imo

[unkempt hull]

my main issue is when ||he spawns minibosses|| because they are hard to get rid of

[unkempt zephyr]

you need use summon to kill dad faster.

[quaint warren]

What about just focusing him down? Don't they disappear through please changes?

Ignore the other peeps

[unkempt hull]

i normally try that but when 2 or 3 of them are on me i feel like i just take a ton

[quaint warren]

True

[reef galleon]

Why is hoarding slash only available on sword

don't see the point

[quaint warren]

It would be a little busted on the faster weapons probably

[worn crypt]

Hoarding + Flurry is dope though if you can get that pairing

[unkempt hull]

ive never gotten hoarding as an option when im loaded

i only ever get it when i have like 10 gold

it seems fun though

[jade rover]

Is there somewhere where people have discussed speedrunning strats?

[pallid dagger]

alright

I've been convinced

getting Merciful End can actually be really badass

[unkempt hull]

i had a run pop off with that once

it was really fun

my doom was higher than any source of damage otherwise so it was really nice to have

[pallid dagger]

Killed Theseus and Asterius before my Acorn wore off

[smoky atlas]

@frail schooner not everyone who browses this channel has necessarily beaten the game

[pallid dagger]

dang

almost sad i didn't do EM4 now

straight-up trashed the final boss

[frail schooner]

i honestly feel like em1 is harder than em2

just too chaotic unless you have deflect or the shield

[tawny meadow]

I mean that's the risk you run when you come into a channel that allows spoilers... You might get spoiled

[primal hazel]

This channel and #h1-story-discussion are channels where spoiler are explicitly allowed

If you don't want to be spoiled ask in #h1-for-new-players

But EM(4) is a common term in this channel sooo

[frail schooner]

em5 ||charon|| when

[cunning urchin]

Honestly not sure who you're telling this or why.

@frail schooner just fight him boonless in Tartarus.

[primal hazel]

Idk
Was assuming a new player was complaining lol

[cunning urchin]

With HL5 CP2 FO2.

[frail schooner]

whats cp again

[cunning urchin]

Calisthenics Program.

[frail schooner]

oh right

[cunning urchin]

CP2 is +30% HP for enemies.

[calm oyster]

aphrodite and dionysus are trolling me rn
they will NOT give me low tolerance
i've gotten so many boons and used all my dice

no more chances to get it ;_;

atrocious rng
i guess i should switch to that duo/legendary mirror talent because i'm very mad >:^(

[worn crypt]

Finally decided to try max LC with stubborn defiance. That's a little nerve-wracking but it was fun.

[pallid dagger]

anyone got any builds they're recommend? tried merciful end + fists, tried sea storm on everything, tried several hera builds.

i need something new.

[drifting vale]

Theres always shackle runs

[worn crypt]

Zag rail and try to get early shotgun hammer upgrade

[tawny meadow]

yeah if you're going to try and get specific duo boons the mirror is nice

[worn sand]

https://i.imgur.com/O4MHyRr.png

which of these is better on Chiron aspect?

[primal hazel]

Relentless

More shots=more triggers
Also I think more overall damage
But I didn't math the damage out xD

[main zodiac]

relentless is better choice

[soft pine]

I don't play video games to do math

[pearl imp]

Hoooooly moly, just got the Ares + Aphro duo boon for the first time in a run where I also had the buff that makes your Doom stack multiple times + Aphro's buff that makes Weak last another like 8 seconds
I was running Sword w/Doom + the upgrades that make your special hit twice + have a bigger AoE

My Doom ticks were dealing upwards of 300+ on bosses

[unkempt zephyr]

I don't play video games to do math
@soft pine than turn on God mod and just play with random build.

[primal hazel]

That hurt

[drifting vale]

They didn't say they were having trouble dude chill

You really don't need to do math to do well

[frail schooner]

i do play video games to do math

[worn crypt]

I play math to do video games

[primal hazel]

My monkey brain likes big numbos

[frail schooner]

how much hp does boss 4 have without any buffs to it

[solid hazel]

17k per life bar I think

[frail schooner]

i see

[cunning urchin]

Yeah, 17k.

[frail schooner]

its funny how the scale for enemy hp is so different from yours

and same for dmg

like a 40 dmg hit is gigantic but if your wep did 40 dmg you'd never get anywhere

[solid hazel]

That's pretty common in a lot of video games today... Your characters are all basically glass cannons compared to any enemy

[frail schooner]

ppl like seeing big numbers i guess

[solid hazel]

Like final fantasy you have max 9999 hp, but you easily do 18k in a limit break

[frail schooner]

but it'd be interesting if we also had like 10k hp

[solid hazel]

With enough defensive boons you could get that much effective HP

[frail schooner]

yeah same in octopath you can do 180k in a single move but your hp is capped at 9999 and there's no reasonable way to get that other than overhealing

[solid hazel]

If you charm enemies in Hades when they hot each other they do big numbers to each too haha

[frail schooner]

aphrodite call is op

[solid hazel]

So maybe zagreus is secretly just super durable

[frail schooner]

bye theseus

[solid hazel]

Yeah it's pretty funny watching astrius spin to win theseus to nothing

Also theseus aid calls can hit astrius too if you charm him

[frail schooner]

the aphrodite legendary call thing is super fun too

it cahrges so fast

[solid hazel]

Smoldering air?

[primal hazel]

But you never get full cast bonus right?

Yep

[frail schooner]

the one where its capped at 25% but charges 5% per second

yeah

[primal hazel]

Eh I mostly use casts at full

Only take it for prophecy completion

[frail schooner]

aphrodite full cast is just a 2500 dmg thing though

[solid hazel]

Some calls are clearly better in bars... Like dio

Cuz Dio doesn't do raw damage just hangover

[frail schooner]

dio cast seems pretty underwhelming tbh

[primal hazel]

Hmm haven't thought about it in that way

[frail schooner]

call*

[solid hazel]

I think it outdamages zeus without double strike

But just guessing not actually sure about that

[cunning urchin]

Dionysus' Aid is the best DPS call in the game.

[solid hazel]

I love being right without actually doing the math

[primal hazel]

All planned

[solid hazel]

@cunning urchin what do you think about Demeter legendary?

I keep asking and getting crickets

To be fair though somebody posted a tier list on weapons like 5 seconds after I asked

[unkempt pagoda]

dem legendary is okay, it's a legendary because of cool factor and aesthetic rather than actual use

[solid hazel]

So everybody went into opinionated rant mode for the next few hours

[cunning urchin]

I mean, it's a great legendary. I still don't wanna take her boons at high heat because she has too many bad, unsellable t1 boons.

But with AP0 or maybe with AP1 I think it's fine to take her boons.

[solid hazel]

I dunno if I'm not mathing this right... But like if enemies auto die at 10% hp that means you are doing roughly 1/(1-0.1) more damage

So then it is roughly 11% damage boon, granted that's completely multiplicative and global

[primal hazel]

I see it more as the enemies having less health

Imo

[solid hazel]

But that's like roughly equivalent to a heroic pressure points

Which seems pretty weak for a legendary

[cunning urchin]

@primal hazel yeah, that's the right way to look at it.

[frail schooner]

it is cool looking though

[unkempt pagoda]

everything has 90% hp now

[solid hazel]

That is how I'm looking at it too though, it's just I'm converting that to a damage increase for more apples to apples comparison

[unkempt zephyr]

its amazing legendary becaus work on bosses too.

[solid hazel]

Otherwise it's hard to compare to other boons

[frail schooner]

ravenous will is one of my favorite boons though

[primal hazel]

It does? Wtf
They just vanish at 10%?

[unkempt zephyr]

in last my runs i try snipe it.

[frail schooner]

cause like you almost always dont have your bloodstones

[solid hazel]

But pressure points works on bosses too..

[frail schooner]

so free 10% shield and 10% dmg even without ranks

[solid hazel]

So I don't see why it's amazing unless my analysis is wrong

[unkempt zephyr]

It does? Wtf
They just vanish at 10%?
@primal hazel nope. but die. its be spoiler if i say how its work on bosses

[frail schooner]

lol imagine if using the explosion thing caused you to skip extra phases of boss 4

op

[primal hazel]

Just tag

[unkempt zephyr]

||a giant ice scythe appears and finishes off the bosses .and demeter voice have unic lines||

[drifting vale]

||and a quote from dem||

[spiral tree]

so pom blossom best keepsake?

[unkempt pagoda]

what dem legendary lacks in substance it has in cool factor

[solid hazel]

Acorn is generally used at high heat... But low heat pom blossom pretty awesome

[unkempt pagoda]

and that's more than enough to use it 😛

[cunning urchin]

Winter Harvest also does 50 AOE damage and Chill.

[drifting vale]

heh cool factor

[unkempt pagoda]

[solid hazel]

And dying lament does 40 damage and weak...

So it's like a heroic pressure point and dying lament in one boon

Still seems kinda weak

Well plus coolness factor

I guess to be totally fair, many legendaries are useless if incompatible with your build or amazing if compatible

Demeter has no specific synergy or antisynergy so maybe that's why it's a little underpowered

[spiral tree]

is aph call good on bosses?

damage seems great

[unkempt pagoda]

its best use is as a stunlock/attack stopper

for bosses

[solid hazel]

Reduced charm time, but interrupts attack... Kinda depends how good you are at using it

[spiral tree]

better than wave of despair?

[unkempt pagoda]

in that reduced charm time, bosses do attack things on the field too, so the charm itself isn't worthless

[solid hazel]

Damage is actually pretty bad compared to other aids

[cunning urchin]

It's not bad lol.

[solid hazel]

If you have no aid, almost anything is worth taking

[unkempt zephyr]

demeter have same scailing as Athena. better only Aphro

[unkempt pagoda]

straight 2500 is a whole battie at full charge lol

[solid hazel]

I feel like most aids I use are getting a full phase on hades

So that should be like 8500 damage

Like half his life bar

Well maybe that's too much, but close

[spiral tree]

wow

[cunning urchin]

Nah. Maybe with Eris.

[spiral tree]

so I read conflicting tips

[solid hazel]

I'll freely admit that I could be completely wrong

[spiral tree]

1 guide said to save money till styx since poms are double power there but another guide said to use all money early on in stores since its way cheaper than styx

thoughts?

[solid hazel]

Saving money is dumb in my opinion

[spiral tree]

I always spend money on stores every time

[solid hazel]

Money does nothing until it's spent

[spiral tree]

they cheap

[solid hazel]

If you're stronger during the ru of you don't have to heal as much or take as many centaur hearts

[spiral tree]

wait isnt taking centaur hearts essential tho?

at least a few per run?

[cunning urchin]

I spend at every shop unless there's nothing good.

[solid hazel]

It is, but you'll take more if you feel like your build is weak

[cunning urchin]

Why take Centaur Hearts when you can just no-hit the whole run.

[solid hazel]

Yeah that's not an option for mortals haha

Only God gamers

[cunning urchin]

Goddess*

[solid hazel]

Gameress?

[primal hazel]

Gameresses

[unkempt zephyr]

Why take Centaur Hearts when you can just no-hit the whole run.
@cunning urchin 👍

[solid hazel]

@spiral tree im highly opinionated, but I think a lot of stuff I've read on hades is bad advice

[cunning urchin]

And also, if you think Dying Lament + Heroic Pressure Points in one boon is no good, I don't know what to tell you.

It also has something very important over Pressure Points: no variance.

[mellow quest]

what boon are you referring to

[solid hazel]

That's true, I typically don't think variance is that big an issue

We're talking about legendary demeter

[cunning urchin]

Variance matters a lot.

[solid hazel]

Like how many hits are you sojng to Hades where variance is a big difference?

If you're approaching 100 to 200 hits, I feel like variance doesn't matter that much

[cunning urchin]

Why are you only looking at Hades?

[solid hazel]

Cuz he kills me haha

[primal hazel]

@unkempt zephyr seems like I'm gonna hunt for hers now

[solid hazel]

Almost nothing else does at the heats I'm playing

[cunning urchin]

Needing 1 hit all of the time to kill is way, way better than needing 1–2 hits due to variance.

[solid hazel]

Yeah that's true...but I also don't think many enemies are dying to 1 hit

[worn crypt]

How about dying to 4 hits instead of 3-6 hits

4 hits will always be better

[unkempt zephyr]

my english bad...i dont read all.

[cunning urchin]

Same reason I prefer Heartbreak Strike/Flourish so much over Deadly at high heats—Weak and other stuff aside—even though they have very similar DPS in theory. Killing in 3 hits or whatever reliably is better than killing in 3–4 because of variance.

but I also don't think many enemies are dying to 1 hit
Maybe you're playing the wrong aspects.

[solid hazel]

Hah okay that's fair, variance could be pretty important

[mellow quest]

artimes boons might not be the most optimal boons but CHONKY NUMBER

i've hit 4 digits in tartarus

[cunning urchin]

You don't get anything from overkills. All that matters is how many hits you really need to kill.

[worn citrus]

Double dash or 50% attack and dodge on near miss?

[steel radish]

So, how exactly do Dark Variance and Fated Authority work together?

[mighty ermine]

??? you mean dark foresight?

[solid hazel]

You get a feeling of satisfaction from big numbers and really what else is there in life?

[robust anchor]

double dash easily

[cunning urchin]

But crits can be great, too. If Heartbreak needs 2 hits all of the time and Deadly needs 2 hits most of the time and 1 hit some of the time, then Deadly performs better.

[steel radish]

My bad, Dark Foresight indeed

[worn crypt]

Fated authority can't change from gold to blue or vice versa. It doesn't interact with dark forsight at all

[steel radish]

Huh, that explains a lot

[mighty ermine]

they work together exactly how you'd think. you get more gold laurel rewards you can reroll, and less blue laurel rewards to reroll

[mellow quest]

aphrodite is just a pretty solid god in general if a bit boring since it's just damage and damage reduction

[steel radish]

So basicly if I see that the reward is Darkness no matter how often I use Fated Authority the reward will never be a Boon or a Deadalus Hammer?

[unkempt zephyr]

But crits can be great, too. If Heartbreak needs 2 hits all of the time and Deadly needs 2 hits most of the time and 1 hit some of the time, then Deadly performs better.
@cunning urchin Agree.faster kill=>less damage enemy can do=>less damage taken

[worn crypt]

Right @steel radish

[mighty ermine]

@steel radish correct

[mellow quest]

fated persuasion is just better imo

[unkempt pagoda]

bringing out the chart again

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/520688402958516254/660997121406926849/hades_room_rewards_guide.png

[mellow quest]

and not as slow

[steel radish]

I see, so there's literaly no point in bringing them both with me, thanks for the clarification

[cunning urchin]

I wonder why they nerfed the max number of Authority rerolls.

[mighty ermine]

i wouldn't say literally no point, but persuasion is better anyways

[solid hazel]

@cunning urchin Agree.faster kill=>less damage enemy can do=>less damage taken
@unkempt zephyr... All this is true but it all depends on what the enemy's hp is and what your specific damage number is... Which is super hard to predict

So I don't think it's ever easy to say you'll be in the sweet spot where Artemis is better or if aphro is better

[cunning urchin]

I mean, HP numbers for all the enemy types are consistent lol.

[solid hazel]

Like it's hard to make a blanket statement

[unkempt pagoda]

i wouldn't say literally no point, but persuasion is better anyways
authority gang rise up

[robust anchor]

pls somebody pin chart

[unkempt pagoda]

it's already pinned lol

[steel radish]

So which combination of Mirror Talents concerning raritys do you guys recommend?

[robust anchor]

from 12 years ago

[solid hazel]

I mean, HP numbers for all the enemy types are consistent lol.
@cunning urchin I know what you're saying but it's not really my point. What I mean it is depend room to room and calesthetic programs and what not

[robust anchor]

just try em all out yourself and decide everyone will argue every single way

[cunning urchin]

Dark Foresight and whatever the epic+ thing is called.

[mighty ermine]

@unkempt pagoda join us, be persuasive, not authoritative

[unkempt pagoda]

currently i do favor/legacy, but right now i'm playing with RI1 on so ig it doesn't really matter lmao

[robust anchor]

sometimes depends on aspects

[solid hazel]

So you can't say this aphro or Artemis is always better due to variance for every situation inside a run

[cunning urchin]

I mean.

[robust anchor]

uhoh

[unkempt pagoda]

tailesque, i only joined persuasion club because i was doing 50 heat runs and i forgot to turn it back when i stopped :V

[worn crypt]

Getting all commons is too depressing, I can't use dark foresight

[steel radish]

Yeah, that's what I have equiped right now also, since legendary boons need you to have specific stuff anyways and are 10% more rare, so the epic +20% is better there in my opinion, and with that boosted there's no point in also boosting Rare

[cunning urchin]

Heartbreak is always better at high heat anyway because Weak and better pom scaling and no reliance on t2 boons etc.

[mellow quest]

i would say aphro is better pretty comfortably

[cunning urchin]

Although, right now in the test branch, Deadly is S++ tier lol.

[mellow quest]

weak is just really valuable

[cunning urchin]

Because 100% crit chance is kinda broken.

[robust anchor]

bugs pogu

yummy bugs

[solid hazel]

You are probably right @cunning urchin...cant say I would know better. Still that's a lot of qualifier that don't apply to an average players experience

[mellow quest]

plus weak scales nicely throughout the game between how much damage it's preventing naturally as enemies get stronger and the boons that enhance it

[worn crypt]

For most of the game it doesn't really matter if something is technically better than another thing, as long as it's functional and you're enjoying it.

[cunning urchin]

And you can tell how many hits you need to kill with this or that for different enemies by just running and comparing.

Also, Heartbreak Strike/Flourish is already 50% of what you need to unlock Smoldering Air.

[mellow quest]

i think one of my favorite mini combos is snow burst + crush shot

instant priv status

[cunning urchin]

Speaking of that, I would like Shatter Shot back lol.

Shatter Shot + Unhealthy Fixation was so much fun.

[unkempt pagoda]

the times when it actually felt like a shotgun 😔

[solid hazel]

No idea what that is...stop gatekeeping me 😩

[steel radish]

I see that people also prefer to run the +damage when inflicted by 2 cursed instead of the +2.5% damage for each different god you have?

[cunning urchin]

It also didn't have any hitbox issues for almost a whole year like Crush Shot did lol.

[solid hazel]

Crush shot still has hitbox issues...

[cunning urchin]

No idea what what is? lol

[solid hazel]

Shatter shot

[unkempt pagoda]

shatter shot was a short ranged cone shape divided in 5 "zones"

[solid hazel]

What build was it in? I started playing in bloodpact

[cunning urchin]

It was Crush Shot, but the damage was divided into 5 hits.

[unkempt pagoda]

pre-long winter

meaning, before 2020

[cunning urchin]

So that's 5 chances to apply Charm with Unhealthy Fixation for every cast.

And the damage would go through armor.

And the scaling was so much better.

[solid hazel]

I tried Hera bow with Crush shot again yesterday... It misses less, but still enough to be annoying

I know they tried to fix it, but still some issued

[cunning urchin]

They nerfed Shatter Crush Shot so many times.

[solid hazel]

Before the fix though I know taking posiedon attack on hera bow actually "fixed" crush shot

Like it would pretty much always knock them into your crush shot load noe

[cunning urchin]

I actually never had issues with Crush Shot on Hera.

[solid hazel]

But Poisedon attack is so sketchy...

[cunning urchin]

Just regular Crush Shot would whiff half the time though lol.

[solid hazel]

I can't say I take it often enough to know...

When making builds its rare that I think... I need crush shot to complete my tool set

[cunning urchin]

All my first clears were with Shatter Shot.

I kinda stopped playing for a month or more, I think, when they replaced it with Crush Shot lol.

[stuck bobcat]

Little oftopic
Backstab Arthur is borderline stupid, just critted Hades for 3,8k

[solid hazel]

Arthur is chunky boi

I love it even if I don't think it's that good

[mellow quest]

crush shot still hits pretty hard and scales alright with poms

but it's not the win button shatter shot could be

[solid hazel]

Some thing you do for love or the memes

[cunning urchin]

Not that good?

[worn crypt]

Crush shot is my fav for Achilles cast build

[still vigil]

has anyone tried chiron or rama special with weak+ aphro legendary on it?

[cunning urchin]

I think Excalibur is possibly the easiest aspect for 32 Heat.

@still vigil it works like you'd expect lol.

[stuck bobcat]

@still vigil stunlock normal enemies

[still vigil]

ok!

[stuck bobcat]

Not so good with rama though

[mellow quest]

arthur aspect is just a lot of fun, love how different it plays from the other swords

i also like that the zag sword aspect is somewhat different enough on its own to warrant use but i mean why zag when you could nem

[solid hazel]

What 10% movement speed isn't good enough for your @mellow quest?

[stuck bobcat]

Arthur is goin HAM on bosses. Slap special aura + weak. DODGES WHAT DODGES? You mean that thing that increases your backstab attack?

[solid hazel]

Didn't know we were choosing beggars herw

[mellow quest]

15% move speed doesn't compare to 300% room clear speed lmao

[still vigil]

speakin of which, how am i supposed to use the sword, let alone arthur?

[solid hazel]

Hah I know I was being sarcastic

[cunning urchin]

You can easily get something like 3k effective HP within the Holy Aura with Excalibur by the time you reach Hades lol.

[unkempt zephyr]

Yup)))

[mellow quest]

holy aura + myrmidon bracer ez game

[stuck bobcat]

Dodge attack x2 -> special
Repeat

That for normal swords @still vigil

[solid hazel]

If you're comparing myrmidon braver, how do you estimate how much you're hit in front vs behind?

[stuck bobcat]

For arthur aim for maximising usage of your third strike - facetank if you can

[solid hazel]

I thought about it and concluded I have no idea

[unkempt zephyr]

Its is easy only when you can handle artur

[mellow quest]

the strongest part of sword is how easy it is to keep normal enemies stunned and how natural staying on the backs of enemies for backstab bonus is

[still vigil]

icic! Thank you!

[mellow quest]

with arthur aspect it's just how dumb your damage output and damage resistance starts

[still vigil]

Im just so use to strafing with gilgamesh(or the fists in general) that the sword feels...clunky(?) to me

[solid hazel]

With nemesis, I don't use many attacks except dash strike...

Arthur and Poisedon completely different though

[cunning urchin]

I'll have to look into Myrmidon Bracer on Excalibur, but you can also just run Plume and not have to worry about backstabs lol.

[mellow quest]

i don't really like cast builds all that much

plume is definitely better if you are just a better player in general, don't get me wrong

[solid hazel]

Cast build is such a ambiguous term... Is beowulf and hera cast builds?

[mellow quest]

but i am just ok so consistent effects are better

[stuck bobcat]

Yes @solid hazel

[still vigil]

that dodge + attack combo on gilgamesh is just😩 👏🏿
then if you get athena, hermes, and colossus knuckle?

[solid hazel]

Well those play super different from say Poisedon or achilles

[mellow quest]

i wouldn't consider hera a cast build, it's more like zag bow but good

[cunning urchin]

Zag bow is good lol.

[solid hazel]

5% global damage increase with variance since it's crit

[cunning urchin]

Good luck with Hera and RI3.

[mellow quest]

why would you ever press the special button 85% of runs. especially when it's about to go back down to pre 1.0 values

[stuck bobcat]

The question is - why use zag bow if you have chiron

[cunning urchin]

You shouldn't consider test branch balance to be final. They'll look at the data in the current build for any fine-tuning.

[robust anchor]

i like zag bow a lot

[solid hazel]

Do you think chiron bow needs a nerf

[robust anchor]

no

[cunning urchin]

Chiron is kinda busted easy right now in 1.0. Some fine-tuning is needed, yeah.

[torpid wren]

I would not be surprised if it got nerfed

[mellow quest]

imo RI3 is one of those heat levels that just isn't fun to play with in any meaningful way

[robust anchor]

like ap2

feelsapman

[mellow quest]

yeah

[torpid wren]

but at the same time I really disagree with nerfs that make weapons striaght up unfun to use

[random light]

Rather than nerfing weapons I think buffing the underpowered Aspects would make for a better balancing choice, perhaps?

[still vigil]

fer lucifer, what do people use the special for? cause when i use luci, i typically use the attack fer damage and the special is just there as a landmine

[random light]

Like instead of nerfing Chiron, just buff zag bow

[mellow quest]

zag bow doesn't need a buff really. it's just very bland

[cunning urchin]

You're just getting power creep that way lol.

[random light]

as long as they don’t touch Demeter Fists, I have no complaints

[cunning urchin]

Bow was underpowered before 1.0.

They buffed it quite a lot.

[random light]

I mean is it powercreep if you’re bringing weapon aspects that aren’t as good up to the level of their peers?

Yeah I remember the old Bow

[mellow quest]

it's nice that the bows are solid in 1.0, it was my least favorite weapon before the buffs

[random light]

Like back in the Night Night days

[torpid wren]

yeah... I really don't want bows to be just... one of those weapons no one uses again

[stuck bobcat]

Theres a shi..ton of OP weaps
Arthur, Achilles, Chiron, Gilgamesh, Beowulf, Rama

Imo they shouldnt nerf it, instead buff the weaker ones

[solid hazel]

Dark thirst tell me what weapon to use @torpid wren i actually have no sense of agency

[random light]

I don’t know if I’d call Achilles, Arthur, and Rama OP

[mellow quest]

Eris could be at 50% buff only and it would still be super strong

[random light]

They definitely super strong

But not game breaking

[cunning urchin]

Chiron is way too good now, so they're looking into toning it down a bit in the test branch.

[mighty ermine]

gilgamesh is far from OP really

[cunning urchin]

Fists 4 sucks.

[mellow quest]

i don't miss the version of gilgamesh with all the sliding around

[random light]

Imagine using something other than Demeter on Malphon 🤧🤧

[stuck bobcat]

Just nerf special +4 shots hammer or delete it.
Without it chiron isnt as OP

[unkempt pagoda]

eris used to be 60% and it was completely invisible next to hestia lol

[cunning urchin]

It's amazing with ME and bad with anything else.

[still vigil]

@random light them fighting words

[random light]

Demeter Fists best Fists my mind cannot be changed on this

[mellow quest]

talos fists are just really fun to play even though they're not the best

succ

[still vigil]

Nahhh the way Gilgamesh holds the crown like that

[stuck bobcat]

Gilgamesh

[random light]

That double kick hammer with explosive upper with the Artemis special is like eating freshly made Krispy Kreme doughnuts

[torpid wren]

they would probally just do something dumb like lowering the speed of the special or increasing the reload time

[cunning urchin]

There will always be one best aspect.

[unkempt pagoda]

zag sword, right 😛

[cunning urchin]

What matters more is if they play different and if they're fun.

[mellow quest]

oh, right

[stuck bobcat]

Imo Rail laks special focused aspect. It has great hammers for it but no aspect focuses on it

[mellow quest]

i just learned that you can dash while charging a spear spin to execute it as you move

and idk how i've played this long without knowing this

[solid hazel]

You can actually dash twice. Press and hold attack and dash

[mighty ermine]

eris focuses on special in its own way though

[solid hazel]

You'll do the attack and dash and the a start charging

[mighty ermine]

with eris you constantly use the special, even if the majority of your damage doesn't come from there

[solid hazel]

The other you can dash during the charge to release

[unkempt pagoda]

eris can easily do a special build too

[mighty ermine]

rocket and cluster just melts on its own

[still vigil]

^

[unkempt pagoda]

did a targeting cluster doom build the other day

[torpid wren]

sometimes I don't think the aspects vary too much, but I'm mostly thinking for rail. Like I always wish they had unique specials or unique ways to use them... rather than "more numbers after you reload or stand in your bomb's explosion". They don't seem all that interesting

[unkempt pagoda]

eris is like a free impending doom lol

[still vigil]

so what do y'all use lucifer special for?

[mellow quest]

hestia is different enough imo

[solid hazel]

No clue... Barely played lucifer

[unkempt pagoda]

lucifer special looks pretty

[mellow quest]

lucifer rail would be too were it not so bad

[cunning urchin]

eris can easily do a special build too
Eris can do anything because it has +75% damage on everything.

[solid hazel]

Feels weak from my one run

[mellow quest]

the best boon for lucifer rail attack is athena's so that you can question what you are doing with your life

[stuck bobcat]

Lucifer is just for Zeus runs, i dont see other way to plah it

[mighty ermine]

basing lucifer special boon choices entirely on which colors are your favorite

[primal hazel]

I just ignore Luci special

[unkempt pagoda]

divine flourish, obviously 😛

[primal hazel]

Zeus attack go brrr

[cunning urchin]

Eris can do a dash only with Frost Dash, probably. Plus the occasional Special for the buff.

[plain violet]

demeter fists are so good

[torpid wren]

I'd use Luci's special if auto-aim knew they exist

[unkempt pagoda]

divine flourish is also very nice looking on bow special 🤧

[plain violet]

thought I liked magnet more but nope

[mighty ermine]

zeus attack luci used to go brrr^3 until it fell from such great heights

[still vigil]

ah

[plain violet]

demeter all the way

[cunning urchin]

Is that the name of her Dash? I've no idea. I never take it.

[still vigil]

so zeus on luci special? okay! imma try that

[mighty ermine]

mistral dash lol

[plain violet]

zeus on luci special is pretty great

[cunning urchin]

Yeah, that one.

[mellow quest]

mistral dash was sooooo terrible when it first came out

but it's very solid now

[unkempt pagoda]

zeus on lucy special just makes it a mine

[mighty ermine]

mistral dash still has a core problem in that it's not divine, hunter or tidal dash

[unkempt pagoda]

it's not really that good lol

[cunning urchin]

Eris is easily #1 for non-lodging cast builds.

[plain violet]

I almost never take hunter dash tbh

usually divine or tidal

mostly divine

[cunning urchin]

Prove me wrong.

[unkempt zephyr]

mistral dash still has a core problem in that it's not divine, hunter or tidal dash
@mighty ermine its amazing dash)

[mighty ermine]

hunter is huge on serrated or any bow build

so i do take it pretty often

[mellow quest]

it's still a little nuts to me that hunter dash used to be 50/75/100% rarity scaling

for a very long time too

[stuck bobcat]

Are ther other dodges than Poseidon, Athena and Arthemis in the game? WHAT ARE TALKING ABOUT

[mighty ermine]

@unkempt zephyr i'm mostly being facetious, don't worry about it lol

[unkempt pagoda]

mistral dash is Okay™️

[solid hazel]

Sometimes you just want something for privileged status so you take mistrial dash

[torpid wren]

Zeus dash is alright if you are at the end of the game and have nothing else on it

[mighty ermine]

or you just run FF and don't worry about that

[unkempt zephyr]

@unkempt zephyr i'm mostly being facetious, don't worry about it lol
@mighty ermine sry .my english not so well. hard to me understan when ppl joking.

[cunning urchin]

The only thing the Hunter Dash nerf accomplished is that you have even more reason to take Divine Dash over it.

[mellow quest]

it hits surprisingly hard for a dash

[unkempt pagoda]

sometimes dem gives you rare crop, nourished soul, and mistral dash and you have underworld customs on

[mighty ermine]

@unkempt zephyr no worries!

[mellow quest]

how would you rework divine dash @cunning urchin

[stuck bobcat]

Divine dash just straight deletes most options from the game

[cunning urchin]

I wouldn't.

[unkempt zephyr]

i wana same time of shield but not when you dash. after you dash.

[plain violet]

hey hey hey let's leave divine dash alone lol

[reef galleon]

Let's delete it

[torpid wren]

Divine Dash: removed from the game

[unkempt zephyr]

becaus its give mechanic. and its be save moment to attack for melee and for range.

[unkempt pagoda]

no ❤️

[cunning urchin]

Divine Dash is the only way I enjoy EM3 FO2 with melee lol.

[solid hazel]

Wouldnt that be even better? You already have i frames during the dash, why would adding more afterwords be a nerd?

[cunning urchin]

Well, not enjoy.

[mighty ermine]

does anyone else remember when divine dash was titan toppler and made your dash extremely slow lol

[cunning urchin]

That's too strong.

[plain violet]

divine dash makes em4 more tolerable too

[mighty ermine]

that was wild

[unkempt pagoda]

perhaps the problem is that the other dashes aren't up to the same level of divine dash

[mellow quest]

so its a matter of either make every other dash as busted as divine or leave divine dash as a no brain pick 99.98% of the time then

[reef galleon]

I got hit with lasers through obstacle again on EM4 I'm for deleting everything

[cunning urchin]

Let's say, I don't despise it as much.

[unkempt pagoda]

titan toppler was the best boon name and i'm so sad they renamed it

[primal hazel]

perhaps the problem is that the other dashes aren't up to the same level of divine dash
@unkempt pagoda 500%

[mighty ermine]

barbs of the master huntress RIP

[plain violet]

I lean towards buff other things instead of nerf imo

[unkempt pagoda]

vigilance of the gray-eyed goddess

[primal hazel]

Sane

Same

[mighty ermine]

i miss the call name gravitas especially bad

they were great

[primal hazel]

I don't get nerfs in single player games
Just feel bad most of the time

[torpid wren]

Divine Dash: Now only deflects things in front.

[plain violet]

leave my poor dash alone lol

[cunning urchin]

perhaps the problem is that the other dashes aren't up to the same level of divine dash
That's honestly it. They just matter so little, you might as well have no dash boon.

[plain violet]

I need that crutch

[primal hazel]

Why just not make other options more fun

[plain violet]

^^^^

[worn citrus]

Stygian or infernal soul for Hera bow?

[primal hazel]

In the end it's all a choice
Nobody forces anyone to take athena dash

[stuck bobcat]

Divine dash has so many usages
Doom builds - mandatory
Crit builds - gives you 20% crit chance
Backstab builds - 100%+ backstab damage lol
At top of it - it has almost 100% reflect uptime and staggers enemies

Now compare it to any other dodge in the game which has wery small niche usage.
It's way to OP and has most op combos in the game

[primal hazel]

Stygian imo

[river sable]

knockback + lightning is stupid good

[torpid wren]

Why just not make other options more fun
@primal hazel I ask this question every time there's a major nerf to a thing people have fun with

[reef galleon]

charm foes on successful evade with aphro

heh

[unkempt pagoda]

Stygian or infernal soul for Hera bow?
infernal for burst potential

[solid hazel]

I mean all the other dashes are free damage even if not much... Still better than nothing if you don't have athen

[cunning urchin]

No.

[worn citrus]

Can you load several casts into Hera bow or just one at a time?

[primal hazel]

Oh no I have to use a dash that deflects in a build based on deflects

[unkempt pagoda]

the former

[primal hazel]

Tf is that logic, no cap

[mighty ermine]

@worn citrus several

[worn citrus]

Oh nice

[unkempt pagoda]

for lodging casts, 100% infernal soul

i can see use for stygian on like, trippy flare maybe

[primal hazel]

Dyonisus with stygian

[stuck bobcat]

Trippy Flare + Zeus duo is just braindead for Hera

[solid hazel]

Stygian + fully loaded probably better than infernal + fully loaded in most cases

[cunning urchin]

Dash tier list is literally:
Divine Dash
No Dash
Hunter Dash
Tidal Dash
...
Everything else

[unkempt pagoda]

but even then, you lose the burst potential

[solid hazel]

So it really depends what you're planning on doing

[plain violet]

lol why is no dash so high

tidal dash puts in work idk man

[primal hazel]

Athena is just way better

[plain violet]

ofc athenas is great

but I would rather have tidal dash than no dash

[river sable]

depends on what you're doing
tidal dash is used in the current WR by vorime with the Zeus duo

[plain violet]

imo

[primal hazel]

But that just shows that others need to be better instead of athena being worse
Cause if athena gets nerfed others will still be awful

[cunning urchin]

Because no dash means you have a free slot for Divine Dash.

[unkempt pagoda]

obviously first should be chaos -% range dash

[primal hazel]

So it feels even worse

[plain violet]

ah but what if your run doesn't have athena?

[unkempt pagoda]

force her with a keepsake

[stuck bobcat]

To me tidal dash just works with sea storm focused build. Without it its good on trash but terrible for bosses

[primal hazel]

Most of the time you'll only not take athena dash deliberately

[solid hazel]

And also it means all the other gods keep offering you their dash instead of that duo you really want

[primal hazel]

Other dashes are maximum ok In dedicated builds

[mighty ermine]

tidal dash is still great on bosses, what

[primal hazel]

Athena is splashable as heck

[cunning urchin]

Practically every high heat run has the Owl Pendant in Tartarus or Asphodel.

[mighty ermine]

free damage while evading and attacking, especially for melee

insanely effective with eris, etc.

[primal hazel]

Also dash attack coverage

[unkempt pagoda]

tidal dash's main weakness is the knockback lol, on bosses its great

[primal hazel]

So yeah buff other dashes lol

[plain violet]

passion dash feels super weak

[cunning urchin]

@solid hazel nah, Duo/Legendary is checked first.

[plain violet]

ba-dum-tss

[unkempt pagoda]

high damage, easy rupture, spammable, sea storm galore

[solid hazel]

Oh didn't know that, but still it takes up a slot for something else potentially useful

[primal hazel]

That pun went past me
Thanks for the drum

[solid hazel]

Even if not duo/legendary

[torpid wren]

I don't play with Antena's other boons as much... I'd think the problem would be the lack of people using the attack/special/cast deflects. But at the same time, those are really dependant on weapon while the dash works for everything

[plain violet]

sure footing is better than I thought it was

[stuck bobcat]

Just move interactions with duo boon out of divine dash

[cunning urchin]

Passion Dash would be a lot better if the AOE didn't apply sooo late in your dash.

[plain violet]

since I didn't know it worked on hades urns

[mighty ermine]

yeah, sure footing can actually make HS pretty mild

[unkempt pagoda]

passion dash's aoe is so small

[reef galleon]

If I could see a little better thru all the effects I could finally deliberately rely on backstab damage

[unkempt pagoda]

i can barely use it even as a status inflictor

[primal hazel]

Just move interactions with duo boon out of divine dash
@stuck bobcat I'd be down with that
Sound like a fair "nerf" actually

[cunning urchin]

It's like you dash, recover, and 2 seconds later the AOE "hits".

[solid hazel]

They keep mentioning my name in thr meeting I'm ignoring to talk about Hades...

[plain violet]

also, I feel like the hit signal for the hydra is hard to see

like for the lava throwing

the red doesn't stick out

[cunning urchin]

@unkempt pagoda yeah, I've been hugging Lernie and still whiffed lol.

[reef galleon]

a lot of things don't stick out as much as they should tbh

[plain violet]

I'm not colorblind, but stuff does kinda blend for me in a lot of areas

[mighty ermine]

poseidon trial wave in elysium lol

[primal hazel]

I'd like better indicators for when some specific boons/effects are active

[unkempt pagoda]

i think one of hades the game's biggest issues is the amount of visual clutter lol

[primal hazel]

Conditional stuff

[plain violet]

or sometimes the game has what I've heard referred to as "diarrhea christmas lights"

[reef galleon]

I don't see anything around me when I use cast charge with beowulf

[unkempt pagoda]

there's a lot of clutter

[plain violet]

^

[cunning urchin]

Poseidon's trials always ruin my Butterfly proc in that chamber lol. No matter what region.

[primal hazel]

I mean it's not game ruining but it's always on the back of your head ye

[long mountain]

Just had my fave build so far

[solid hazel]

Is butterfly a high heat strat?

[mighty ermine]

honestly improving at this game did include just getting better at quickly parsing everything going on, yeah

there can be a lot

[primal hazel]

Not getting hit is generally a high heat strat kappa

[unkempt pagoda]

using a full zeus build means you're never gonna see anything on screen

[long mountain]

Couple of lucky Daedalus picks made my Chiron bow very very good

[plain violet]

is there a color blind option?

[unkempt pagoda]

you're just hoping that lightning hits something lol

[primal hazel]

Don't need to see then

[plain violet]

I wonder if something like that would help with clarity

[long mountain]

Concentrated Volley + Relentless Volley with base 5 Chrion bow

Woof

[frail schooner]

i wish all status effects just had an icon at the top like chill

[cunning urchin]

I'm using it at high heat, so I guess it is lol.

[river sable]

I think NVIDIA Highlights supports Hades, ya'll could try messing with the filters if you have an NVIDIA card maybe?

[plain violet]

with chill I can never tell who's a clone and who's real lol

[cunning urchin]

First 40 Heat clear was with Butterfly and Guan Yu.

[unkempt pagoda]

technically anything can be a high heat strat 😛

[plain violet]

for the clone elite thingy

[primal hazel]

Bless hades

[cunning urchin]

@unkempt pagoda indeed.

[mighty ermine]

i believe elysium BP popper souls still become almost indistinguishable from the true soul if chill is applied, which is goofy

[primal hazel]

GY is the name of my existence so far

[unkempt pagoda]

i believe elysium BP popper souls still become almost indistinguishable from the true soul if chill is applied, which is goofy
oh yeah, still have this problem in 1.0

[cunning urchin]

And some of those high heat strats will be bad high heat strats.

[primal hazel]

But I don't have it leveled so yeah

[cunning urchin]

Obviously not mine. Mine are always amazing and super smart.

[unkempt pagoda]

let's play russian roulette except it's demeter and popper souls

[torpid wren]

speaking of hard to see, i still think the "marching ants" aiming crosshairs for archer/spear throwing enemies are pretty trash.

[stuck bobcat]

The thing is - why use passion dash if you cap your hangover without it in half of second. Sure free dmg, but just why - when tidal dash outdps it and doest have a cap.
Hangover overall is clunky AF, you dont benefit of having multiple skills applying it at all - just waste your slots.
Maybe shorter the duration and increase maximum stack count 🤔

[reef galleon]

using a full zeus build means you're never gonna see anything on screen
will wearing a welding mask help?

i guess it's a question for high heat strategies huh

[unkempt pagoda]

passion dash's main use is applying weak for Curse of Longing or Low Tolerance lol

[river sable]

^^^only time I've enjoyed having it

[cunning urchin]

Or Heart Rend.