h1-builds-and-combat

[young ether]

I prefer having 3 cast

So that is Stygian right?

[cunning urchin]

That's Infernal.

[young ether]

Oh

[cunning urchin]

Stygian is regenerating cast.

[peak iron]

If you're looking at 3 casts right now, getting an additional cast is getting another 33%~ more damage from adding casts to the bow.

Approximately.

[cunning urchin]

There's also utility from both +1 ammo and +% cast damage that you can't gauge that easily, unfortunately.

[untold quiver]

More Casts helps in Room Clear where you don't need the max damage in one spot

Nyaanyaa said it better lol

[cunning urchin]

More cast damage can also help with that lol.

If you need 1 cast per shot to kill instead of 2, that's a big plus.

If you need 2 casts either way, then ammo is better than cast damage (for those particular enemies). Stuff like that.

[peak iron]

Yeah, both are good, but I'd argue for getting more casts, because that's just my preference. Ending a run with 9 casts and shooting intercontinental ballistic magic missiles is pretty fun.

[untold quiver]

yeah that's what I was trying to say

[peak iron]

If you pick up Dio cast, you even get nuclear fallout

[untold quiver]

Like when I do Pblade Artemis, I always go casts, cause its single target

aoe casts are more complicated

[cunning urchin]

I always try to gauge how many hits I need to kill enemies in the region I'm in and to base decisions on that.

[peak iron]

Dio cast + || Demeter Duo || and you get your own nuclear winter

Dio cast + Zeus duo and you get radioactive fallout

[untold quiver]

I actually prefer the Zeus +Dio Duo

[cunning urchin]

Hits-to-kill is the only metric that really matters. Damage is just a quick way to gauge that roughly.

[proven osprey]

does infernal or stygian matter when you play Hera ?

[peak iron]

It does.

But I don't have enough time played on hera to give a good explanation lol.

[untold quiver]

I had a run with Pblade where i got double +1 cast from Chaos and the rest o the boon package, it was glorious

its burst versus sustained damage

[peak iron]

Yeah, it takes 15s for the bloodstone to come out of a boss if you can't knock it out or reduce it's time in the boss

[untold quiver]

except stygian has sustained too so without number crunching, I'd say go with Stygian

[cunning urchin]

Basically, lodging casts work better with Infernal Soul, non-lodging casts work better with Stygian Soul.

[peak iron]

Yep, those were the words I was looking for.

If you want to load up on Dio special, you don't have to worry about your cast being stuck in something, so you pick extra casts

[cunning urchin]

I'm confused. What does Drunken Flourish have to do with casts?

[peak iron]

Hey

Look here

You know what I meant

And I know you know what I meant

You cheeky cat person you

[cunning urchin]

If you mean Trippy Shot, you'd pick Stygian Soul for that—not "extra casts", by which I assume you mean Infernal Soul?

I think you got that mixed up. Casts that lodge into enemies will drop bloodstones immediately when you kill enemies. So you can quickly kill something with your casts, pick up your ammo, and kill the next enemy.

If you use Infernal Soul.

Stygian Soul, you'd have to wait every time.

Casts like Trippy Shot that don't lodge can't drop ammo on a kill anyway, so you'd go with Stygian Soul.

[peak iron]

Oh no, I didn't mix them up, I just have a different preference when I play Hera bow. I prefer to have as many bloodstones as possible with Trippy shot so I can see Big Numbers blowing up bosses.

[proven osprey]

trippy shot does lot lodge ?

and by lot i mean not

[peak iron]

No, it doesn't lodge.

[proven osprey]

why

it's not funny

[cunning urchin]

Because it becomes Festive Fog, essentially.

[peak iron]

You turn your blood into hangover smoke.

[robust anchor]

i have a secret guys. ||i actually like trippy shot||

[cunning urchin]

"hangover smoke"

[robust anchor]

the stun feels good

[cunning urchin]

You're not even trying anymore.

[peak iron]

Anymore

Bold of you to assume I ever was

[proven osprey]

Ah

[peak iron]

The ultimate Hera build, IMO, is Trippy Shot with as many +Casts as you can get from various sources like Chaos, Artemis, Charon wells, and shoot every boss with a severely overstacked missile

[proven osprey]

but why Hera then ?

[peak iron]

Overkill? Perhaps. Fun? Without a doubt

[unkempt pagoda]

no lobbing, safer, better burst potential

[peak iron]

Why stand and throw a bunch of grenades when I could strap them all onto an arrow and shoot that?

[proven osprey]

but I thought you could not lodge it

[peak iron]

Lodging is when your bloodstone sticks into an enemy. Loading is when you load it onto your bow, which you can do with any cast.

[proven osprey]

OH

ok next run I'm maxing Hera and trying this

[hearty elbow]

Leave it at level 1

For non-lodging builds

I mean, obviously it doesn't hurt to level it up, but it will do literally 0 to help

[proven osprey]

yeah true

[peak iron]

Nonsense! Think of all the help it will provide you while you have no boon on your cast.

Totally worth the additional 14 blood.

[wide plover]

are there good hera builds beside dio and hunting blades?

[hearty elbow]

Trippy Flare and Crush Shot are my favorite personally

I've heard mixed things about Phalanx Shot

[glass rapids]

hunting blades isnt even great on hera specifically

[cunning urchin]

Any cast can be effective.

[wide plover]

it feels great when you gather all the parts, but bad when you don't

[unkempt zephyr]

are there good hera builds beside dio and hunting blades?
@wide plover Poseidon cast +artemis for mirage shot. and slam boons from poseidon. you can add to this zeus.if wana.

[proven osprey]

I really need to take notes on builds suggested here

so many to try

[peak iron]

You know what's even better than taking notes? Experimenting yourself 😄

[proven osprey]

hey

I tried many things

95% of them could not go past EM4

so learning from others could be good

[wide plover]

what does go past em4?

[proven osprey]

no I mean dealing with it

[wide plover]

yes, what builds can successfully deal with em4?

[proven osprey]

builds that are well thought I suppose

[peak iron]

Just about any of them, if that's the only heat you're working with tbh. You just have to get used to the fight.

[empty veldt]

Melee would definitely have a harder time than range against em4

[proven osprey]

I struggle a lot with melee yeah

[wide plover]

I find ranged easier in general

[empty veldt]

Unless you got greater reflex

Unless ME builds

Having a call also helps a lot

[peak iron]

I think EM4 boss is only hard until you learn his move set, and then you can beat him with just about any boons you pick up, as long as your build isn't 100% garbage.

Granted, learning his moveset takes time

[proven osprey]

that's a pretty nice way to tell me I'm garbage

but true

[wide plover]

that's like saying 50 heat isn't that hard after you learn to deal with all the problems it throws at you

[true ravine]

what's a solid setup using gilgamesh fists?

[peak iron]

lol, I don't think you're garbage, I just don't think you've learned his moveset.

[true ravine]

I've been trying to use a lot of doom/deflect

[unkempt zephyr]

EM4 hard only in first phase. becaus mobs.

[true ravine]

but I'm still getting put down by hades

[proven osprey]

yeah true first phase is a nightmare

[peak iron]

Also, Vorpal, that's not really a fair comparison.

But you're not entirely wrong 😛

[unkempt zephyr]

Burn hades down after he summon. use companion to decrease time in first phase.

[peak iron]

Get Aphrodite Attack for your GIGA Fists

[true ravine]

aphro for my giga

anything else I should aim for?

[hearty elbow]

Curse of Agony + Divine Flourish + Divine Dash

If you get Merciful End, gravy, but otherwise that build should be functional

Never press Special

[true ravine]

I thought maim was kind of the whole shtick

[peak iron]

Never Press Special

Solid advice, but at the same time, think of how much extra damage you could be doing

[hazy slate]

its not a really good gimmick

[peak iron]

Abandon reason

Lose yourself to DPS

[true ravine]

that's usually my playstyle 😄

[unkempt zephyr]

anything else I should aim for?
@true ravine Take athena attack and aphro special. with ruthless reflex in mirror.

[hearty elbow]

Never Press Special

Solid advice, but at the same time, think of how much extra damage you could be doing
@peak iron Your enemies are thinking the same thing. "Think of how much more damage we could be doing"

[unkempt zephyr]

add some artemis for 20% crit chance duo.

and press your special what ever you wana.

[proven osprey]

what's the point of playing 4th aspect if you never special ?

[hearty elbow]

I thought maim was kind of the whole shtick
@true ravine It is the whole shtick, but they were relatively un-generous with the amount of delay before you can dash-cancel out of the dash-upper, so you're stuck there for... like several years while your enemy has a huge damage steroid

[peak iron]

Free Dashes.

[true ravine]

couldn't you mostly counter that with a maxed myrmidon?

[peak iron]

A good reason to consider using Ruthless Reflex

[true ravine]

if you stay in place?

[hearty elbow]

It is (probably?) the fastest Merciful End build in the game. 4 dashes, and the dash strikes are faster than anyone else's

[proven osprey]

of you have extra dashes

[peak iron]

Imagine how many dashes you could have with an epic Greatest Reflex, too

Never run again, only dash

[true ravine]

I had one of those once

[proven osprey]

not written on the instructions I got

[cunning urchin]

It's MElphon.

[true ravine]

with dash deflect

[cunning urchin]

That's the point of the aspect.

[true ravine]

I was endless until I got crushed by hades' light show

[unkempt zephyr]

It is (probably?) the fastest Merciful End build in the game. 4 dashes, and the dash strikes are faster than anyone else's
@hearty elbow but DEV nerf ME almost every mouth. probably they dont get opportunity to proc ME
from dash in near future.

[cunning urchin]

They didn't touch ME for pretty much the whole year until 1.0.

[peak iron]

Crushed By Hades
Nine Million Dashes

But how

[unkempt zephyr]

They didn't touch ME for pretty much the whole year until 1.0.
@cunning urchin 2 days ago wriste and Vorime say about nerf some were. my english not so well. but they talk about it.

[cunning urchin]

There was one minor nerf in January, and then 1.0. That's it.

[peak iron]

As soon as you see him start to animate you can just teleport to the other side of the screen like

Psh, Nothin personnel kid

[hearty elbow]

They nerfed it in 1.0 because it was completely free on Malphon. Curse of Agony and Divine Dash were already best in slot. You should not be further rewarded for that lol

[cunning urchin]

Why not?

I liked Divine Strike more.

I'm actually kind of happy about the nerf tbh.

[hearty elbow]

I am too. Now I'm happy to see ME instead of sad when I don't, since I don't build to get it anymore

Well, I do obviously build to get it, but I don't expect to lol

[cunning urchin]

I never liked ME builds on Malphon before 1.0 lol. I got it on Talos at 45 in Elysium, but that's just because I went with what I got.

[proven osprey]

@peak iron is there a point to load my 3 casts at the same time with dio cast ?

[cunning urchin]

Just wasn't the most fun way to play for me. Too easy to get it, too much DPS for mashing Dash-Strike.

[peak iron]

E X T R E M E O V E R K I L L

[unkempt zephyr]

its most cheats to play.

[proven osprey]

it does more dmg ?

[peak iron]

Yes. It hits them with 3 casts simultaneously.

[proven osprey]

pog

[peak iron]

You can roleplay as a major nuclear power on the world stage.

[proven osprey]

I'll try that

[hearty elbow]

It gets pretty carpal tunnely once you get 4+ casts though lol

[peak iron]

Just bind cast to an easier to click key

[hearty elbow]

I usually just get Flurry Cast to spare my thumb

[peak iron]

Just bind cast to Every Key

Except attack

Roleplay as a nuclear missile silo

[unkempt zephyr]

i starting pref Stygian soul +chaos 1 cast. on hera.Its not so fast burst. But much more sustains damage. and dont need go some were to take crystals back. and hermes help on CD for cast.

[hearty elbow]

I do that often, I like it too. You play a lot more like a normal Bow, but with a lot of control

It gets kind of sick if you do get a second cast

If you don't it's definitely just worse than Zag bow but it's fun so shrug

[proven osprey]

zeus dio duo

pog

wine that zaps people

[solid portal]

what is "POG"?

[hearty elbow]

It's got the electrolytes plants crave

[proven osprey]

it's him but shorter

[unkempt zephyr]

It gets kind of sick if you do get a second cast
@hearty elbow true. But you can take Egg on start and having reroll for find +1 cast. and doshent matter after +1 what god give you cast )))

[hearty elbow]

Egg doesn't make Chaos more likely, somewhat counter intuitively

[peak iron]

The whims of Chaos

[hearty elbow]

It just makes the boons of Chaos rarer, which doesn't help get the casts 😦 It'd totally be worth taking the Egg if it did though.

[cunning urchin]

I don't think Chaos is ever intuitive.

[hearty elbow]

Chaos doesn't take kindly to your deterministic wishes

[unkempt zephyr]

@hearty elbow Did you try ahilies spear with StygSoul. and artemis attack +mark?

[hearty elbow]

I always take Infernal on Achilles, but yes I do love Deadly Strike on that aspect

[true ravine]

ok, question

[turbid needle]

hey where was the pin to unlock secret aspects for weapons?

[true ravine]

I have all the boons necessary for ME, but I've talked to both Ares and Athena and the duo hasn't popped, what gives?

[hearty elbow]

#h1-story-discussion

[proven osprey]

well

unlucky

[turbid needle]

thanks

[hearty elbow]

I have all the boons necessary for ME, but I've talked to both Ares and Athena and the duo hasn't popped, what gives?
@true ravine It happens. I've had Smoldering Air not appear for 5 runs in a row despite starting Aphro + Zeus keepsakes

With God's Legacy

[orchid marlin]

So taking a cast like blade rift or crystal gaze can potentially neuter your damage right? Since enemies don't get the bonus damage for having a cast lodged in them?

[true ravine]

so dumb

[unkempt zephyr]

i love it. becaus with SS you free to move in Ahilies. Can use free attack.and you cat trow cast in marked and DO alote more damage to bosses.

[true ravine]

like I just had a Trial room with both Ares and Athena

if anywhere, it should have popped there

but nope

not for either of them

[hearty elbow]

i love it. becaus with SS you free to move in Ahilies. Can use free attack.and you cat trow cast in marked and DO alote more damage to bosses.
@unkempt zephyr The one exception is with Crystal Clarity on Achilles. Glacial Glare makes up for a lot of the weakness of Stygian Soul, and if you get an extra cast, hoo boy

That build is fun

like I just had a Trial room with both Ares and Athena
@true ravine That's the one room it literally cannot spawn in

[true ravine]

lol

of course

[hearty elbow]

It helps to fill out your core slots with other god's boons, so it's significantly less likely to see Ares or Athena Tier 1s

[unkempt zephyr]

How i know. base time cast stuck in enemy in 12 seconds. its mean you can do 3 cast IS every 12 second+ time to catch they. in same time you have CD on SS 3s. its mean 4 cast in 12 second window.

[hearty elbow]

Also avoid taking Blade Rift boons, to not add their tier 2s

[true ravine]

So as of right now, I've got: curse of agony, divine flourish, divine dash, curse of vengeance and urge to kill

add caustic strike and pressure points

hoping to get another ares/athena soon

[thorny basin]

man getting secret aspect dialogues are annoying af

[unkempt zephyr]

man getting secret aspect dialogues are annoying af
@thorny basin|| have you met the requirements for getting an aspect?||

[thorny basin]

@unkempt zephyr ||yes, I just have a pile of dialogue from the various people cause I've been using one of the God keepsakes and been ignoring the people around the house for a couple of runs||

so I have a ton of talking to do

[unkempt zephyr]

so I have a ton of talking to do
@thorny basin ||read on wiki.you need spend 5 blood total in weapon class.after that you anable to take dialog to find hiden aspect.||

[thorny basin]

I have, quest dialogue takes priority over weapon dialouge

[unkempt zephyr]

yup

i wait dusa relations 40 runs becaus of that priority 😭 be patient.

[thorny basin]

yea. been having decent runs in the mean time. have everything but thr stupid expensive stuff on the mirror done and working my way through the contractor gem upgrades

[opal rock]

so does %special speed from hermes increase the speed of the projectile or just the time between casts

[thorny basin]

zag's animation

like throwing the spear

idk about the gun bomb

but the sword slam is faster

[cunning urchin]

I'm very sure no one has evidence either way.

[opal rock]

yeah i just got the 20% special on the gun bomb and i feel like nothing changed

[thorny basin]

the bow fires the arrows off faster

[opal rock]

seems to travel as fast and cooldown is same

[thorny basin]

indont have concrete proof but I usually only take special speed on the bow so there is less standing still firing arrows off. doesnt feel like it makes an impact on any of the other weapons

[opal rock]

yeah it seems like the way the game does speed calculations makes %speed more noticable for things that are already attacking fast

[thorny basin]

more it's the ammount of time spent in the animation. like the bownspecial has you spin relatively slowly while the gun just shoots up once quickly and is done

[marsh pumice]

so beowulf is just shield version of hera

[limber pine]

Beowulf changes some of the casts

[unkempt zephyr]

so beowulf is just shield version of hera
@marsh pumice agree.its feels like poseidon sword (cast do not stuck in enemy )+ hera load

[hazy slate]

I think Beowulf changes all casts to be like, a short ranged flare type attack

[unkempt pagoda]

^

all casts are aoe burst versions of themselves

[marsh pumice]

but what if you use Charged Shot

[unkempt pagoda]

then you basically have a heavy hera

bonus points if you use minotaur rush too

[limber pine]

Beowulf is pretty bad with Zeus and Ares

[hazy slate]

How does it work with ares?

[unkempt pagoda]

ares cast is a shorter, larger blade rift

it might do more damage, but i don't really remember

[thorny basin]

u feel like the hydra is the only boss you get good value out of it

i*

[limber pine]

Ares cast lasts like 2 seconds with Beowulf, Zeus is just lightning bolts concentrated on a single spot

[thorny basin]

there we go got the dialouge for the spear aspect

[proven osprey]

I'm having a run, 4th lance aspect poseidon with skewer thing + duo zeus, god it's funny

[thorny basin]

known just gotta get the NYC dialogue

now*

god I hate auto corrext

<.<

[forest locust]

Eris build?

[unkempt pagoda]

zeus strike, aphro special, smouldering air

any call, delta chamber or ricochet fire or piercing fire

[forest locust]

Cool ty

[unkempt pagoda]

also watched a speedrunner do a cluster rocket eris run and get world record so

[forest locust]

Is Eris the strongest range build?

I like the bow but seems weak

[unkempt pagoda]

it's competition for one of the best aspects in the game imo

i'm still a bow main though

[forest locust]

What aspect on bow is best?

[unkempt zephyr]

its dont feels weak totaly xD

[unkempt pagoda]

they're all great at their respective jobs, but probably bow4

[forest locust]

To unlock bow 4 you need to max all first 3?

[unkempt pagoda]

zagbow is the attack build specialist, chiron is the special build specialist, but bow4 can specialize in either or do a hybrid and be completely fine

check pins in #h1-story-discussion for instructions on hidden aspect unlocks

still have a soft spot for hera since it's a cast/attack hybrid build weapon

[forest locust]

Rama looks fun!

[marsh pumice]

zag bow is special build bow too

[onyx parcel]

Beaten by EM4

Rip

That sucks

[cunning urchin]

Try, try again.

[marsh pumice]

just give up

[forest locust]

Damn its tough to pick

Between bow and rail

[marsh pumice]

Bow all the way

[unkempt zephyr]

zag bow is special build bow too :rooSmug:
@marsh pumice special with charge👍

[forest locust]

What aspect do you play on bow @marsh pumice

[marsh pumice]

yeah, it's so strong, you just 2 shot boss with it

[forest locust]

Chiron or Rama looks fun to me

[marsh pumice]

Zag aspect for special

and just get Charged Volley

[forest locust]

Zag bow is just spam attack?

[cunning urchin]

Spam Dash-Strike Power Shots.

[unkempt pagoda]

spamming dash attack, specifically

unless you go flurry

[cunning urchin]

And some non-power shots when it's unnecessary.

[marsh pumice]

no, you just shotgun special in enemy

[cunning urchin]

Flurry Shot on pad with auto-aim doesn't work very well at all for me.

[forest locust]

Why is it so hard to decide lol!

[unkempt pagoda]

good thing i play kbm

[cunning urchin]

That doesn't help me.

[forest locust]

Spear looks also fun

[unkempt pagoda]

i'm helping you by saying to switch to kbm

[forest locust]

So for first Bow build you suggest Zag?

[onyx parcel]

Chiron all the way

Zag who?

[marsh pumice]

zag aspect

[forest locust]

Whats chiron build tho?

[limber pine]

any Special works

[cunning urchin]

Zag Aspect only requires 5 Titan Blood to max out. I'd recommend it for a first, yeah.

[proven osprey]

I like demeter special with artic blast

[cunning urchin]

Chiron requires 15.

[proven osprey]

well, you can make chiron work with lv 3 or so

[onyx parcel]

Crit works very well with Chiron

Like a heart rend or something

Insanely good

Sea storm also good

[forest locust]

[proven osprey]

I mean when you're not heat 4323

[onyx parcel]

But u need hammers like concentrated volley

Or relentless volley

To make Chiron do big damage

[cunning urchin]

Chiron likes Heartbreak Strike + Deadly Flourish + Heart Rend a lot. That's probably the ideal build for it.

[proven osprey]

yeah

[cunning urchin]

• Divine Dash and Deadly Reversal, if you can get that.

Deadly Strike + Heartbreak Flourish is great, too.

[forest locust]

I have 15 ambrosia

[proven osprey]

Any piece of a adive for hera build with poseido cast ? Should I go for Zeus duo, something else ?

[forest locust]

Im kinda confused what to do with them

[unkempt pagoda]

Zag Bow:

• Twin Shot should be your go-to. Flurry (on KBM) is also S tier.
• Explosive is big damage but slower charge, can work with Twin Shot since their debuffs counteract each other.
• For crowd control, Triple + Chain is very fun.
• Point-Blank, Sniper, and Perfect Shot are secondary hammers (but don't go Sniper, the minimum range is too high to be worth it).
• Don't go Artemis attack, because Zag Bow has innate critical chance and Artemis attack's raw damage modifier is too low. Aphrodite attack would be ideal, because she has the highest modifiers plus Zag Bow's critical chance.
• You want Hunter Dash (from Artemis) or Chaos Lunge boons, because you will be constantly dash striking.

[proven osprey]

you can keep em for now, you're gonna need a lot of them later

[unkempt zephyr]

Any piece of a adive for hera build with poseido cast ? Should I go for Zeus duo, something else ?
@proven osprey if you wana poseidon cast YOU NEED Slam boons.they do damage.

[proven osprey]

yeah sure

but what other god

[forest locust]

Who should I give my nectar to after giving1 to everyone?

[cunning urchin]

@proven osprey Flood Shot builds always look for Blizzard Shot. So Lady Demeter.

[unkempt zephyr]

but what other god
@proven osprey Art for mirage shot. and zeus for sea storm. be best.

[cunning urchin]

• Lady Artemis if you want Mirage Shot, too.

[proven osprey]

I'll try arte since i've never done it before

thanks !

[cunning urchin]

You'll need Artemis' Aid, Deadly Flourish, Deadly Strike, or True Shot.

[unkempt pagoda]

alternatively, go artemis and ares for a mirage curse of drowning build (but that works better on something like poseidon sword)

[unkempt zephyr]

and if play in poseidon cast. find legendary Second wave. and poseidon slam boons.even 1 slam boon be good.

[proven osprey]

aiming for 2 duos

[unkempt zephyr]

2 duos easy to find.not like 3 or 4.

[cunning urchin]

You don't need to get both. It's more leaving the option open for both.

[proven osprey]

yeah true

So you guys use that mirror perk to get more leg/duos ?

[thorny basin]

I just want my beam gun go brrr to make gif memes

[unkempt zephyr]

So you guys use that mirror perk to get more leg/duos ?
@proven osprey you can use that.true.

[onyx parcel]

So you guys use that mirror perk to get more leg/duos ?
@proven osprey I switch between those two a lot

But prob I should just stick with legacy

[proven osprey]

I don't, thought the other one was more versatile

[random light]

So you guys use that mirror perk to get more leg/duos ?
@proven osprey It depends, some builds don't necessarily need Duos, so then you could switch to the better Epic chance, but for things like cast build with Blizzard Shot you wanna take the Duo booster

[onyx parcel]

Pride just makes sure that u don’t end up with all common boons lol

[thorny basin]

did beam gun get mega nerfed tornadoes nobody use it cause its op?

[solid raptor]

Right I currently have 21 titan blood to invest in aspects. Which ones are the best? I have level 5 chaos shield and level 3 achilles. The rest is in zagreus for each weapon.

[random light]

Right I currently have 21 titan blood to invest in aspects. Which ones are the best? I have level 5 chaos shield and level 3 achilles. The rest is in zagreus for each weapon.
@solid raptor Demeter. Fists.

[onyx parcel]

Right I currently have 21 titan blood to invest in aspects. Which ones are the best? I have level 5 chaos shield and level 3 achilles. The rest is in zagreus for each weapon.
@solid raptor Demeter fist

Or Chiron bow

[solid raptor]

Oh I also have level 3 of the magnetic fists, forget the name

[onyx parcel]

Or eris rail

Or nemesis

[solid cairn]

Poseidon sword I would say. It is incredibly versatile

[solid raptor]

And I have all the aspects unlocked

[onyx parcel]

Nemesis > Poseidon

[solid cairn]

Depends

[random light]

Demeter Fists, Chiron Bow, and Nemesis Sword are all super powerful with Blood investment

[onyx parcel]

^

[random light]

Poseidon sword is strong from the get go, doesn't need as much blood

[solid cairn]

Hard to compare

[onyx parcel]

U already have lvl3 talos might as well go for Chiron or nemesis

[random light]

use Demeter Fists because it's the best Fists

[cunning urchin]

I'd max out Talos tbh if you like them.

[solid cairn]

Or just max what you like

[solid raptor]

With nemesis, do you want to build it with artemis?

[onyx parcel]

It’s treason then

With nemesis, do you want to build it with artemis?
@solid raptor yes

It’s good with Artemis

[random light]

With nemesis, do you want to build it with artemis?
@solid raptor Aphrodite and then Artemis Duo

[solid cairn]

Yes but only if heart rend

[marsh pumice]

max Rama mama

[onyx parcel]

Heart rend on nemesis it’s insane

[random light]

max Rama mama :rooSip:
Rama also a good choice for blood, although it has to compete with Chiron for investment

[cunning urchin]

Nemesis wants Divine Strike, Deadly Strike, or Heartbreak Strike. And in any case Deflect on either Dash or Attack (or both). That's the meta.

[solid cairn]

Yeah Athena dash is recommended

[random light]

Athena Dash is recommended like 95% of the time lol

[solid cairn]

It already does so much damage hunter dash is overkill

[solid raptor]

Is athena dash not recommended on any sword build?

[cunning urchin]

Best hammer for Nemesis is Double Edge.

[onyx parcel]

max Rama mama :rooSip:
@marsh pumice Admiral Bahroo viewer?

[solid cairn]

By far yeah

[marsh pumice]

who

[random light]

Is athena dash not recommended on any sword build?
@solid raptor Athena Dash is recommended on most builds XD

[solid cairn]

It basically amounts to over double damage

[solid raptor]

True true

[onyx parcel]

Nemesis wants Divine Strike, Deadly Strike, or Heartbreak Strike. And in any case Deflect on either Dash or Attack (or both). That's the meta.
@cunning urchin Artemis dash tho

[solid cairn]

Not only does it hit twice but each hit does more damage

It’s a busted hammer

[sonic ledge]

Hey everyone. I'm not sure where this would fit, but I feel like I'm close to beating Hades, currently on run 11 and got to the point where Hades regained his hp (phase 2?) and got wreckt. But my question is, is it worth it to trade ambrosia for titan blood?
I foolishly upgraded the sword/spear and used up my 5 between the two, but now I want to upgrade the fists because I'm having fun with them.

[marsh pumice]

meta

[cunning urchin]

Divine Dash is always recommended on any aspect lol. But melee without Deflect is a lot more difficult than ranged without Deflect.

[solid cairn]

I don’t like trading

[solid raptor]

Which are the best zagreus aspects? So I know which to upgrade last

[solid cairn]

I don’t use any of them

[random light]

Hey everyone. I'm not sure where this would fit, but I feel like I'm close to beating Hades, currently on run 11 and got to the point where Hades regained his hp (phase 2?) and got wreckt. But my question is, is it worth it to trade ambrosia for titan blood?
I foolishly upgraded the sword/spear and used up my 5 between the two, but now I want to upgrade the fists because I'm having fun with them.
@sonic ledge Early game ambrosia doesn't have that many uses. You'll need it much later, but since you can get Ambrosia pretty easily by grinding at higher Heat and you don't need as much Ambrosia as Blood, I'd say you can do the trade

[hazy slate]

None of them are all that great

[onyx parcel]

Divine Dash is always recommended on any aspect lol. But melee without Deflect is a lot more difficult than ranged without Deflect.
@cunning urchin true

[marsh pumice]

Bow is the best

[onyx parcel]

Which are the best zagreus aspects? So I know which to upgrade last
@solid raptor fist zag is good

Shield zag also good

[solid cairn]

Unless you’re speedrunning then Poseidon dash

[random light]

None of them are all that great
@hazy slate I actually like the Zag Rail a lot

I know it's not Eris

but it's nice

[sonic ledge]

@random light cool cool, thanks for the heads up

[cunning urchin]

@sonic ledge you're probably better off asking for help in #h1-for-new-players if you want to avoid spoilers (because spoilers are allowed in this here channel).

[random light]

If you're planning on throwing blood into fists

can i interest you in a pair of

DEMETER FISTS

@sonic ledge

[onyx parcel]

[sonic ledge]

got it. Again, not sure where the question belonged as the question relates to builds themselves. Also, personally don't care much for spoilers, the ride itself is good enough

@random light YES

[random light]

Max out Demeter Fists :^)

acquire the BIG NUMBERS

gg

[solid cairn]

I’m slowly learning how to not suck with cast builds

Name is big numbers and not even talking about Arthur

Smh

[sonic ledge]

is +backstab damage worth it? I tried to acquire as much as I could and it seems to be beneficial to fists gameplay

[random light]

Name is big numbers and not even talking about Arthur
@solid cairn yeah but they wanted to use Fists, if they said Sword, I'd have recommended Nemesis and Arthur

is +backstab damage worth it? I tried to acquire as much as I could and it seems to be beneficial to fists gameplay
@sonic ledge Backstab damage is good on a lot of builds because you can dash away from attacks and get in behind and get free bonus damage

It's never really the core of any build but it's appreciated on many

[solid cairn]

Speaking of Arthur backstab damage is probably the second best hammer you can hope for

[random light]

especially with the uuuhhh Mirror Talent for +50% backstab

[solid cairn]

Behind the Arthur specific one

[unkempt zephyr]

back stab damage insane. only with athena attack artur can reach 6.5-7k in 3th swing

[random light]

I’m slowly learning how to not suck with cast builds
@solid cairn Teach me your ways, all I understand is Poseidon. I wanted to use Achilles and I was just like ????? what am I doing

[solid cairn]

Uhh I’m not the best person to ask but with Achilles you kinda just want to keep your buff up at all times. If you try to rebuff yourself before actually using the 4 attacks it won’t reapply

It’s kind of annoying because it’s difficult to dislodge

[random light]

yeah Poseidon knocking out casts has kinda spoiled me

[solid cairn]

So you want the Hermes boon that makes casts fall out

[random light]

Still waiting for Hermes to give me his busted 0 sec CD Stygian Soul cast so I can get my dream Mirage Blizzard Shot spam build

[solid cairn]

Poseidon cast is honestly amazing since it has huge aoe and a few duos that completely change it

[random light]

Poseidon + Mirage Shot + Blizzard Shot, name another sticking cast that can do that

Poseidon cast is great

[solid cairn]

Poseidon also has the ares one

[unkempt zephyr]

just try Stygian soul + artemis on attack + poseidon cast.

and take mark

[solid cairn]

I’ve never experimented with Stygian soul

[random light]

Poseidon Sword with Artemis Attack, Demeter Special, Poseidon Cast is def my next run

[unkempt zephyr]

blue poseidon cast 3 lvl deal 1.2k damage in mark.

[random light]

I’ve never experimented with Stygian soul
@solid cairn If you can get a couple ammo upgrades from Chaos or Artemis Legend if you're lucky, Stygian is nuts

[cunning urchin]

All the casts have viable builds.

[random light]

if you get the 0 sec CD recharge from Hermes it's just

ridiculous

[solid cairn]

Achilles kinda feels awkward to use

Sometimes you’re kinda just awkwardly standing around waiting for your casts to come back

[unkempt zephyr]

even cd 2 or second cast from chaos 👍

ahilies not only from cast.Read more about aspect. its add damage not only for cast.

[cunning urchin]

Stygian Soul is meta for Trippy Shot and Slicing Shot.

[random light]

Maybe I should try hidden Shield, that seems like a cast focus weapon that might make me enjoy Shield XD

[hazy slate]

It’s pretty nice if you get aphro cast, more casts, and aphro Athena duo

[unkempt zephyr]

just with Stygian Soul you can use attack and cast free. and have more freedom in battle field. with out get damage in time when you try pick up you blood shards back.

[solid cairn]

I’m gonna be honest I’m not a fan of either of those

Trippy shot is no doubt powerful but it’s just kind of a pain to aim before you get ice wine. Slicing shot is just super duo reliant more so than the others but I don’t doubt it’s ceiling

[cunning urchin]

I don't do any cast builds personally lol.

[cobalt field]

I am struggling a lot with those stupid skulls that Hades throws around. I try to kill them before they explode, but it takes way too long for me. And while I am trying to kill the skulls, Hades gets to me with his stupid range. Does anyone have any tips on how to deal with the skulls.

[cunning urchin]

You don't need to spoiler-tag that fight in this channel.

[cobalt field]

please, I just need help xD

lol, sorry

[marsh pumice]

either ignore them or have better DPS

[cunning urchin]

Hmmm. Get away on the other side from the skulls or have better DPS.

You can also just i-frame the shockwave. It's not too bad.

And sometimes, just take the hit from the skull shockwave if you need to do that in order to avoid a hit from Hades.

[solid cairn]

Does anyone else think hades first phase is harder than the second

[cunning urchin]

It doesn't do much damage.

[cobalt field]

I tried to go with attack dmg on exagryph, but the dmg is way too low

[solid cairn]

Like percent damage?

[turbid needle]

the trick to aiming trippy shot is to use hera

[cunning urchin]

You'll want Lightning Strike for DPS on Exagryph.

[solid cairn]

I don’t like hera

[marsh pumice]

2nd phase have free attacks opportunity

[cunning urchin]

What did Lady Hera ever do to you?

[solid cairn]

It feels incredibly slow to me despite being the fastest bow for speedrunning

[marsh pumice]

like using Ares call

[unkempt zephyr]

I tried to go with attack dmg on exagryph, but the dmg is way too low
@cobalt field Or dio attack+ares+ aphro or artemis.

[turbid needle]

I think hades first phase is the worst one yeah

[random light]

What did Lady Hera ever do to you?
@cunning urchin didn't show up as a boon-giving deity in the game ;-;

[solid cairn]

The adds man

[turbid needle]

summons screw you up

[solid cairn]

So annoying

[cobalt field]

I got him to the 2nd phase only once, when I went with the special ugprade that increases AOE, dmg, but can deal dmg to you as well

[cunning urchin]

Then, start your run with the Thunder Signet. Problem solved.

Oh wait I misread. Thought something else was quoted lol.

[solid cairn]

Idk maybe I should be using Stygian soul on hera

[cunning urchin]

More like "didn't read" but anyway.

[random light]

More like "didn't read" but anyway.

[unkempt zephyr]

im lover of dio on gun. when his poison start do crit 500-700 every 0.35

[solid cairn]

I use eris so I never take hazard bomb

Does it even show up on eris

[wide plover]

is it normal that game offes me side gods that I don't need for my build 5 times in a row instead of any ones I already have?

[cunning urchin]

1. Infernal Soul
2. Hera
3. Crush Shot
4. ???
5. New PB!

[random light]

Does it even show up on eris
@solid cairn indeed it does

is it normal that game offes me side gods that I don't need for my build 5 times in a row instead of any ones I already have?
@wide plover that's just bad RNG

[solid cairn]

is it normal that game offes me side gods that I don't need for my build 5 times in a row instead of any ones I already have?
@wide plover it’s called rng

Also god pools

[wide plover]

yeah I had a free slot. You think I should've taken a boon just to fill it?

[random light]

I mean you can try forcing trinkets with the keepsakes but outside that.... just gotta keep your fingers crossed

If you have an open slot that you aren't trying to fill with something specific, then yeah you might as well fill it unless you've got Sisyphus trinket or something

[cobalt field]

can I invest endlessly into Olympian favour?

[solid cairn]

Which to tell you the truth I don’t fully understand either

[cunning urchin]

If the god showed up 5 times in a row, I honestly doubt you didn't pick up any boons from them previously in your run.

[random light]

can I invest endlessly into Olympian favour?
@cobalt field all Mirror Talents have limits, but Favour is a good choice for maxing

[cobalt field]

alright

[untold quiver]

@solid cairn As someone who plays a lot of cast builds, I would only use slicing shot with Achilles Spear, you want that massive (Comparatively) damage bonus for the runs where you don't get hunting blades

[random light]

there are no bad Mirror Talents

[unkempt zephyr]

Only bad users

[cunning urchin]

Slicing Shot is great already with just Engulfing Vortex.

[random light]

or you're just using the wrong Mirror Talents for the build you want

[cunning urchin]

No, there are no bad users. Everybody gets a medal.

(But those medals don't count for nothing in #h1-high-heat-strategies. )

[solid cairn]

there are no bad Mirror Talents
only inferior ones

[cunning urchin]

No, they're called Infernal.

[solid cairn]

Like golden touch which people keep trying to convince me is better than deep pockets when it’s not

[cobalt field]

any recommendations boon-wise for the shield?

I haven't really used it thus far tbh

[random light]

only inferior ones
it's kinda like Aspects in that way. Is Zagreus Sword bad? No. But why use that when Nemesis exists unless you prefer Zag Sword, in which case, go wild and have fun

[cunning urchin]

@cobalt field this might help you. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2233472883

[cobalt field]

thanks

[solid cairn]

abyssal blood is terrible

[random light]

no it's just outclassed

on paper it's not that bad

[untold quiver]

Yeah Engulfing Vortex is great....I realize that I don't like to "Duplicate" primary strategy with a weapon, so for "Kill it with Blade Rifts" I use AChillies Spear lol

[solid cairn]

And I can’t believe we used to play without persuasion

[random light]

I use Authority sometimes

But Persuasion is great yeah

[solid cairn]

Being able to reroll is just an incredibly powerful mechanic in a game like this

[untold quiver]

its the Weapon I feel for me best fits that strategy

[random light]

Rerolling your upgrades has been busted since Binding of Isaac

[solid cairn]

Did they change is or something people I remember when it came out people were saying it sucked

[random light]

Remember the d20?

[solid cairn]

You mean d6?

D20 rerolls pickups

[random light]

d20 was the one that rerolled items and stuff, wasn't it?

yeah I meant d20, the one Isaac starts with after a point

[untold quiver]

I think being able to reroll the room is probably way more important at high heat where you need to flip "Useless" things like upgrade materials

[solid cairn]

No d20 rerolled hearts and keys on the ground

D6 rerolled pedestal items

I’ll pull up platinum god

[random light]

oh wait

no you're right

It is d6

[solid cairn]

Anyway, why did people not use persuasion at any point

[thorny basin]

bad news seems nuts with crystal beam

unless that doesnt interact properlky

[cunning urchin]

I don't think Abyssal Blood is outclassed. It was bugged before 1.0. No one's really bothered looking into it since.

[random light]

Abyssal Blood is what, reduce their movement and attack speed?

it's not bad at all

[solid cairn]

I hate stubborn defiance on a deep level

[random light]

but Boiling is free damage

[cunning urchin]

Obviously, Boiling Blood would be the better choice for speedruns that only care for DPS anyway.

Stubborn Defiance is amazing.

[solid cairn]

I don’t like it at all

[shut violet]

stubborn defiance is only really good for really high heat

[random light]

I'd use Stubborn Defiance if I could trust myself to only get dropped once on the way to a boss

[shut violet]

otherwise you'd always just want 3

[cunning urchin]

Try doing LC4 with DD, and then try again with SD. You'll see how strong SD is.

[solid cairn]

I don’t plan on it

[unkempt zephyr]

bad news seems nuts with crystal beam
@thorny basin can you say what is bad news?

[shut violet]

hermes stygian soul legendary

[random light]

Lasting Consequences is a big monkaS, I've been avoiding that, Damage Control, and Forced Overtime

[thorny basin]

@unkempt zephyr +50% damage tyo enemies that arent stuck

[random light]

hermes stygian soul legendary
@shut violet Bruh that's the one I've been looking for

I want it for Blizzard Shot spam

[shut violet]

yeah you gotta have on stygian soul for it to appear

[random light]

er wait, is that not the CD reduction Hermes boon

[shut violet]

best way to get it is to have hermes keepsake on since that fulfills the prereeqs

[cunning urchin]

stubborn defiance is only really good for really high heat
It's really good at any heat because that's 4 free Heat with LC4 and SD.

[solid cairn]

I need that for the prophecy

[random light]

Does Stubborn heal to full?

[solid cairn]

The bad news boon

[shut violet]

when are you ever going to have LC4 on but not be on a high heat run lol

[unkempt zephyr]

ooooh. for me crystals be insane even with out this) Arctic Blast + Glacial Glare

[solid cairn]

Ok fine I guess I’ll try it because I have a bad habit of tanking hades

[shut violet]

there are significantly less impactful pact options that don't gimp you vs bosses

[cunning urchin]

I have LC4 on at any heat.

[random light]

even at 0 heat?

[sacred folio]

Speaking of Bad News, is it bugged to buff all sorts of damage instead of only cast?

[cunning urchin]

Yes.

[shut violet]

1 DD for EM4 hades is gross

[solid cairn]

Ok for this poseidon run I’m gonna try Stygian soul and SD and I will probably die

[sacred folio]

Bad News' boon description says it only applies to Cast, but I couldn't find where it checks to "only buff cast"

[cunning urchin]

You can very easily get 1 DD + 1 SD if you're running SD, and often 2 DDs + 1 SD.

[random light]

Doesn't Skelly count as a free DD even with SD?

[cunning urchin]

That all heal for 40% or even 80–100%.

[solid cairn]

Like with the boons that give you a DD?

[random light]

you could take Skelly for EM4 if you're able to do it with two extra lives

[solid cairn]

Those work with SD I didn’t know that

[cunning urchin]

Right. Last Stand and Deathless Stand add a DD if you use up your SD in the chamber before picking up the boon from Lady Athena.

And then your SD replenishes like normal when you enter the next chamber.

[solid cairn]

Ok that’s kinda spicy

I will admit

[barren otter]

also SD benefits a lot from having big max health

[random light]

you must accumulate DEFIANCE

[cunning urchin]

Touch of Styx is super cheap and lasts for 12 chambers or something. That's +10% healing for each of them.

[solid cairn]

Assuming that does not work with the shop item

[cunning urchin]

And Patroclus gives you +50%, which gives you a ton of effective HP.

[random light]

if you have your SD down, you could probs get the Kiss of Styx?

[solid cairn]

Does that even work

[barren otter]

when I run SD, my goal is to get as much max health as possible for the final boss

[random light]

if Charon Well pops up in a room and not in between regions, that is

[cunning urchin]

No, you can't. You can only get Touch of Styx from Wells if you're running SD.

[random light]

DD, you mean?

[cunning urchin]

No, that's Kiss of Styx.

[random light]

what does Touch do?

[cunning urchin]

Touch of Styx gives your revives +10% HP.

[random light]

oh that's neat

RIP Kiss of Styx cheesing though ;-;

[cunning urchin]

Yep, and they last for 12 chambers for super cheap.

[barren otter]

I thought it's 15

[solid cairn]

Can you get Prometheus stone with Stygian soul

[random light]

I think so?

[barren otter]

also encounters, not chambers

Can you get Prometheus stone with Stygian soul
yes

[random light]

Chaos boons for extra ammo become really good on Stygian and that Artemis Legendary is something else

[cunning urchin]

You're right, it's encounters. Which is silly because you can revive in any non-fight chamber in Asphodel for free lol.

[solid cairn]

Stygian soul hourglass build pog

[random light]

big brain Stygian Soul strat

Pomchamp emote when btw

Pommers, if you will

XD

[solid cairn]

Stygian seems a lot more useful on Achilles than poseidon

[random light]

Poseidon likes Infernal because of the built in dislodge, Achilles could probably do some great work with Stygian, especially with some recharge CD reduction

[raw totem]

Does getting mirage shot prevent being able to get hunting blades?

[upbeat canopy]

currently mid poseidon sword cast build besides artemis cast and the dislodge boon, what boon am I aiming for, on my dash, special, and attack

any suggestions

[solid cairn]

Ok I am going to give the things I just kinda talked negatively about a fair chance I’m gonna be doing an Achilles spear 16 heat run with Stygian soul and stubborn defiance

[unkempt zephyr]

i write this again. base time on stuck of blood crystal(cast) 12 seconds on boss figth or fat targets. this means only 3 cast every 12 second window+ time to cathe them back. Stygian soul have base 3s cd. its mean 4 cast in 12seconds window.

[solid cairn]

Oh yeah and ares cast too

[thorny basin]

is adamant secret aspect still as good as it was when it was first released? saw some nuts runs with it on youtube

[fierce thicket]

it's kinda terrible

At least compared to other options, you can use it of course

[solid cairn]

Damage control is fine with ares cast I’d assume

[fierce thicket]

for sure

[solid cairn]

Ok 20 heat

[thorny basin]

@fierce thicket how so?

[solid cairn]

Using god’s legacy for better offs of hunting blades and/or vicious cycle

odds*

[fierce thicket]

special is kinda useless and attack is barely different compared to the regular gun meanwhile aspect of eris is one of the best aspects in the game

[solid cairn]

Even if the attack is the same it just feels so much worse

[thorny basin]

even with zeus on attack?

[solid cairn]

Great start to this run, common cast

[fierce thicket]

I like using pos attack to turn it into a water gun for fun but yeah

the thing is that eris buffs up ALL types of damage so even your boons deal more outdamaging lucifer

[thorny basin]

fair ig

still gonne get it Xp

[fierce thicket]

for sure, its impressive looks and effects make it stand out and make for fun runs

[thorny basin]

if i can find achilies again to unlock the spear Xp

[smoky atlas]

https://imgur.com/T5hvXLx

I cried a bit inside

[solid cairn]

welp I died in tartarus I hate ares cast

I'm gonna switch to god's pride

[lone lava]

Do you need to have used the SD in that room to get touch of styx? or does it increase odds or something

Need it for fated list

[solid cairn]

ok how do I hit things that actually move with trippy shot

[untold quiver]

@smoky atlas I think its was genius that instead of offering less boons it shows you what you can't get, it is a punishment after all, "Well I made a cake for dessert, but now you don't get any"

[wide plover]

hera, ice wine, predicting their moves

[solid cairn]

I'm trying to use it with achilles

[smoky atlas]

controller or mkb

[solid cairn]

mkb

[smoky atlas]

for fast enemies, throw at your feet

then you should have no problem

a bit slower to drag the circle with controller

[solid cairn]

I forgot to turn damage control off with dio cast lol

[smoky atlas]

oof

[solid cairn]

not a fan of stygian soul or achilles in general

[smoky atlas]

stygian soul is great with extra cast boons

at least 1 will do

[solid cairn]

I just dont like achilles spear

[untold quiver]

@solid cairn You might want to try Slicing Shot over Tippy Shot for Achilies

Or Hunter shot maybe

[solid cairn]

I dislike slicing shot too

[untold quiver]

oh....yeah then cast based Achillies prolly isn't gonna be your bag

Dash striking with Serrated Edge is totally a thing

[magic cedar]

Hey, what would you say is the best companion for mid tier heat (8-16)?

[untold quiver]

@magic cedar I'm having fantastic success and have just about hit that level with Bouldy

Its been a very helpful "Opps' button and nice on a couple of cluster moments (2nd Head Phase on EM2 lernie)

[solid cairn]

poseidon cast on the other hand... that's pretty sick

[gilded nymph]

Dam I really lost a run because of time limit

is the satyr bad 100% rng

I had to go through every room to find it

[robust anchor]

i like meg companion. and yes satyr sack is just rng

[untold quiver]

@solid cairn oh yeah, that's got some nice aoe on it that would probably do nice......I wonder if the spear buffs sea storm dmg

[robust anchor]

earliest is 2 tunnels

[solid cairn]

I'm using poseidon aspect

[magic cedar]

@untold quiver Thanks for the help!

[grand owl]

I hate picking between two good choices

[barren otter]

use Approval Process 2, that way you have no choice

[smoky atlas]

idk how people clear TD3

i run and dash and try to kill as fast as i can and the most i can barely manage is TD2

[lone lava]

Just pick free rooms and it's not really much trouble

[barren otter]

always take mid shops

[lone lava]

It's like what 20 mins?

That's way more than what you can clear in

[smoky atlas]

wait, shop rooms arent extra?

[solid portal]

I'm approaching 50 runs without a win lmfao... getting to big H is ez but for some reason I just can't get passed his 2nd phase

[lone lava]

I'm not really that good yet and I got a 10:xx pb

[smoky atlas]

youre not making me feel better lol

i'll try the shop strat though

[lone lava]

Sorry I don't mean it like that haha

I mean you can do it

I just recently learned how to go a bit quicker

Like you can see it in the fact that I didn't get rail as the +20% darkness in a while

it's pb is still like 26mins

[smoky atlas]

i think the biggest time sink for me are the jumping bombers and longbows

[lone lava]

But yeah if you want to get fast runs, know the best/a good build for your weapon, know what rooms are time save (sis/eurid/patty, mid shops, fountains(but you can't pick those on purpose), chaos gates (always take and always but light of ixion))

Pause game when deciding which door to go

For keepsakes always do god keepsake, god keepsake, coinpurse, acorn as default

Later you can swap the coinpurse and (sometimes even acorn) for hourglass or ||pom blossom - but this isn't tested much yet or something||

Hourglass is huge for cast builds for +%cast dmg but mostly for + cast stones

Mechanics wise you'll pick up speed especially as you start running op builds and play more confidently, stuff like learning to dodge ||hades'|| hits with the i frames of your dash so you can stay on him and dps help

Or just straight murder redacted

If your build worked and you have a call and meg

Usually you can kill ||p1 within acorn|| and use 1 or less DD p2 even with taking hits

watching a speedrun can help show how fast you can potentially go and where to timesave

[smoky atlas]

👌

its good to know that the ! rooms, shops, and chaos are not side rooms and actually count towards the number of rooms before reaching the boss

[lone lava]

Yep they do save a lot of time

[smoky atlas]

guess i'll watch some vids

[solid portal]

All things equal trippy shot or Dyo's call with hangover?

using shield so I already have range the cast isn't taken yet.

[urban lily]

any suggestions for pact combinations for a beginner 16 heat run with arthur sword?

im at 13 with extreme measures 3, benefits package 2, and middle management

[solid cairn]

whelp good run but no extra cast boons so I died

[inland meadow]

soo

I have gotten to 20 heat with all weapons can I now not get bounties?

[urban lily]

believe so

[inland meadow]

rip

im at 13 with extreme measures 3, benefits package 2, and middle management
@urban lily also I would recommend adding forced overtime 1 and tight deadline 1. once you get used to it, it is easy heat

[young ether]

You still missjng upgrade?

[lone lava]

@urban lily yeah learning to get used to FO is good, TD2 is free heat

[inland meadow]

@young ether no I have at least 30+ blood and nectar

[young ether]

Oh then it shouldnt be a problem

[lone lava]

if 20 heat on all you can only get from trader or styx shop

[inland meadow]

just wish I had more to shoot for

[lone lava]

And ||Greece fish||

[young ether]

I trade quite a few nectar for blood

[lone lava]

purp get 32 heat on all weps

[young ether]

Dunno if i am gonna have enough

[lone lava]

32 is for last statue

then try get fast times or more heat

[inland meadow]

@lone lava don't forget ||chaos fish||

[lone lava]

I believe that just gives darkness

[inland meadow]

oh no no no

[lone lava]

although a lot of it

Ohh like try to go for it

[inland meadow]

unless they changed it since adding ||Greece fish||

[lone lava]

Yeah those are freaking rare af lol I need to fill my codex

Yeah @inland meadow ||Greece fish are diamond, ambrosia, blood and chaos are all darkness||

in increasing amounts

[inland meadow]

huh

guess they changed it

thats too bad

[gilded nymph]

what do you guys run on chaos shield?

[solid portal]

Zeus

and Athena

[dry ember]

Just about any flourish would do tbh

[solid portal]

which is liek every weapon

[dry ember]

Maybe except deadly flourish

[gilded nymph]

zeus special?

[dry ember]

Yeah, one of the better options, actually

[gilded nymph]

and what attack?

aphro or athena

[dry ember]

I'm partial to ares

Your bullrush can apply doom easily

And the timing works out

Otherwise Athena works

[neon knot]

I've only ever had success with shield using hidden aspect. The heavy throw opens up a lot more options for special boons. I had a lot of fun taking poseidon boons and the hammer upgrade that bounces your special to 4 more targets. But if you dont get the right boons to buff special, you can just go with a cast build. The hidden aspect feels really versatile in that regard

[gilded nymph]

I'll try that too

just got bored of bull rush trippy

[neon knot]

I get that. I had a lot of fun doing a run of bull rush blade rift. The spinny blade gets pretty big lol

[random light]

Bruh i got the Double Kick Explosive Upper combo on Demeter again

on top of snagging the Zeus Legendary on Attack and Artemis Special with Aphro/Artemis Duo off of Aphro cast

EM4 won't know what hit it

[lone lava]

I wanna do EM4 so I can finally watch to the end of haelian's vids lmao. just got a weapon to the heat range for it without skipping (shield) I have a question tho
I have all 4 unlocked but zagspect is lvl 5 and other 3 are lvl 1

I plan to max beo soon since it's meta for speed but also I am really not good with it yet and it feels very diff. Do I: just run zag (what build is even good? assuming arte aphro athena but idk what goes where), level beo now and yolo and hope I don't plank and lose streak with unfamiliar wep on new content, or waste blood on chaos shield since it seems to be a safe option for clearing?

seed is epic attack epic special rare dash if that matters

Probably overthinking it, doubt it thaaat hard to clear going in with 3 dd and acorn right

@dry ember @random light sorry for pingree I'm just pretty sure you're gamers

Maybe seastorm zag shield > arte aphro athena?

I'm a bit lost

[random light]

@dry ember @random light sorry for pingree I'm just pretty sure you're gamers
@lone lava I'm not gamer with the shield ;-;

[neon knot]

Tbh i havent had any luck finding success with other shield aspects. I didnt like beo at first, but it's become one of my favorite weapons right now. Like I said above, you can go full Captain America and buff your special. If the gods don't favor you with special boons/hammer upgrades, just go for a full cast build. The base level doesn't feel great, but putting in more blood increases the damage and size of your empowered bull rush. It feels pretty good at max rank and hits a large area

[lone lava]

Shield is so weird man

[random light]

yeah shield is def my least favorite

although I do want to try hidden shield

[neon knot]

The problem i have with other shield aspects is that the special just feels bad.

[random light]

rn I'm trying to go super high heat with Ol Reliable (aka Demeter Fists) so I'm working my way up the Heats

[lone lava]

I've never actually done a shield special run haha

[dry ember]

Zag Shield I recommend Deadly Strike and Pulverizing Blow

[lone lava]

Thank you friend

[dry ember]

If you are bold you can do Hunter Dash

But something like Divine Dash maybe better, especially for EM4

[lone lava]

I was thinking of doing that, I do know normal redacted timings well

Never seen EM4 so it could be exciting

[neon knot]

The special is what makes the shield... well, special. I love beo aspect cause the special actually feels good to use. It has good base damage, so aprho, are, pos, etc. feel good to buff the damage. It can also hit a lot of enemies, so zeus, dio, etc can work as well. Just pray you get daed hammer to increase special to hit 4 enemies

[lone lava]

Diving dash is probably smarter for sure though haha

Also opens up deadly reversal

[dry ember]

Yeah I do recommend Divine Dash on EM4

[lone lava]

kk I'll hop in, looking forward to finally seeing it

[unkempt zephyr]

Zag shield flexible. You can do almost any build.but i realy dont wana do EM4 on this. becaus NO additional mechanic to create some good on insane stuff. Only + 15 to attack. IMO

[lone lava]

@neon knot I've heard the charged throw thing is nice on beo special

[dry ember]

The music is awesome

[lone lava]

Hype

[neon knot]

@neon knot I've heard the charged throw thing is nice on beo special
@lone lava yeah add a crit boon, and the numbers get pretty disgusting. I've definitely been having fun running beo shield

[lone lava]

I didn't want to full melt with ME dem fists or something haha

Should be okay, I'll take it slow if it gets hairy

[gilded nymph]

am i doing something wrong or does chaos shield not do damage

[dry ember]

What level is your Chaos Shield?

[gilded nymph]

4

[lone lava]

It isn't as strong as it was but is for sure still good with the right boon on special

[dry ember]

4 should be ok. Chaos shield isn't a "high" dps weapon, it's just consistent.

[lone lava]

Yeah I think it's reliable more than it is fast

[dry ember]

Yeah. If you want fast go fists or Nemesis tbh

[gilded nymph]

I feel like burst weapons do more than this

[dry ember]

Or Rama Hybrid build if you want

[gilded nymph]

like eris feels better in every way

even special guan yu

[hearty elbow]

I wouldn't consider Eris burst... more like sustained AoE that's so high I guess it might as well be burst?

[gilded nymph]

no no i was comparing eris to chaos shield

both aoe

[lone lava]

Eris is also the current fastest weapon in game so...

It is faster than chaos shield yes

[gilded nymph]

wdym faster

[hazy slate]

Faster for speed runs I think

[lone lava]

Faster at winning

[unkempt zephyr]

Eris is also the current fastest weapon in game so...
@lone lava Erist not fastest weapon in game. its player fastest in world with this weapon.

[lone lava]

More dmg

Idk what metric are you judging by haha

[hazy slate]

The damage buff from Eris gimmick is pretty big

Also is universal damage boost I think

[gilded nymph]

yeah its universal

[lone lava]

@unkempt zephyr It seems Eris is preferred atm, ME demeter fists are also a contender

[unkempt zephyr]

becaus WR its 100% luck on run

and all speedruners know this

[lone lava]

But it's not just the current WR

Also previous ones

and other close ones

[unkempt zephyr]

previos WR what i know was on Nemesis sword 3 51

[lone lava]

3 mins 51 seconds???

[unkempt zephyr]

yup

[lone lava]

Idk what game was like pre 1.0

Rn it's 7:16 so that seems a bit much

[unkempt zephyr]

i give you this 3 51 in Private message

[lone lava]

My god that's insane haha

thanks for sharing

[unkempt zephyr]

np

[lone lava]

shame they changed sword dash strike I think

[solid cairn]

They had a seed

Also WR isn’t just luck

[lone lava]

Is that fully routed?

Yeah I don't think it's just luck either haha

[unkempt zephyr]

yup.but what dif between be amazing lucky in run and seed? No dif

[lone lava]

But I can't be arguing let me do this run

There is a big factor of execution

If I load a save with WR run seed I probably won't beat it rn still

[solid cairn]

Yup and I would be many minutes behind

[unkempt zephyr]

that why i say its PLAYER not weapon. its realy great player + Luck. Or its greate player + seed (Luck on pocket)

[plain violet]

what's your favorite stuff to combo with 4th rail aspect?

zeus seems pretty sweet with it

[solid cairn]

Just Zeus attack

[unkempt zephyr]

special artemis and Athena attack

[solid cairn]

Support fire maybe

[gilded nymph]

there is luck involved

[solid cairn]

Athena attack is a meme

[gilded nymph]

but game sense and skill are still very big factors

[lone lava]

Weapon does matter too though...

[plain violet]

athena attack I have mixed opinions on

I feel like it slows you down so much since the dmg is low

[lone lava]

Zag sword vs Eris or Demeter would be

well good luck

In summary everything matters haha

[plain violet]

I usually take the dash or cast for athena though

[unkempt zephyr]

becaus artemis special do this ...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1fvm7qrlsciq4ys/Luc artemis.mp4?dl=0

[plain violet]

artemis is great

daedulus deserves a shout out there too imo

I think the 4th rail is my favorite of the 4

[unkempt zephyr]

athena attack becaus its backstab. and luci attack grow up

every hit you do on enemy. 1 magazing can do 2000+ damage

[plain violet]

true, blinding flash will give you good dmg

plus it's so safe having constant deflect

I had 2 28% butterfly runs and I'm totally not upset or anything XD

[unkempt zephyr]

Dio attack much worse in luci but still vialble. eris handle dio much better.

i still dont try luci attack+ demeter and + Arctic Blast.

[plain violet]

I feel like dio attack drops off hard

since it does so bad vs crowds

[forest locust]

Strongest spear aspect is hades?

[unkempt zephyr]

I feel like dio attack drops off hard
@plain violet You wrong. find some in codex. i show you names.wait a second.

[onyx parcel]

I finally beat EM4 again

[plain violet]

it is pretty good vs bosses I'll say

[onyx parcel]

This time with Demeter fist

[gilded nymph]

what is the best eris build then

[onyx parcel]

Had 80 hp and no DD left

It’s so tough

[gilded nymph]

zeus attack?

[plain violet]

em4 is so fun

[unkempt zephyr]

Main boond for AoE on Dio its Peer Pressure. its spread poison.and with Bad Influence. its melting.

[onyx parcel]

Yea Zeus attack

em4 is so fun
@plain violet too rage inducing, I don’t think it’s for me

Although it is 4 heat... so I might need it in the future

[forest locust]

Achilles build? 😄

[unkempt zephyr]

@plain violet did you find this 2 passives?

[plain violet]

peer pressure I still need to try out, haven't gotten that combo yet

bad influence is super good though

that does melt people yeah

peer would help soooo much though

[unkempt zephyr]

That main what you wana from dio.peer pressure spread and you start melt becaus Bad Influence can give 100+damage easy

[plain violet]

em4 I'm kinda mixed on the extra phase though, the darkness makes it kinda difficult to see

yeah but zeus works right off the bat is the thing

but zeus is less good vs bosses admiteddly

since his dmg doesn't stack

plus the slowdown from dio is super useful

[unkempt zephyr]

I show you some thing intresting about Dio in private messages. its HOW dio can do on gun 500-700 damage from attack.Becaus i realy wana to ppl take this god.

[gilded nymph]

can you send it to me as well?

[onyx parcel]

Me too actually

[proven osprey]

Blizzard shot is awesome

[unkempt zephyr]

its was not best combo. but still good.

i miss aphro for +3 more stucks. after this damage can be 700-1000 from poison crits.

[plain violet]

poison?

[unkempt zephyr]

Dio poison.i dont know how say its debuff in english.

[plain violet]

ah I only know it as hangover

[unkempt zephyr]

probably dio poison calls Hangover

[coarse tendon]

how to make sword work? feel so weak (won escapes with other weps)

[thorny basin]

ok beowolf is really fun

[stiff jacinth]

Is there, like

a mirror tier list out there?

[hazy slate]

nemesis sword, get aphro on attack and artemis on cast or special

[dry ember]

Mirror tier list:
Everything, either green or purple side, is A tier.

[hazy slate]

get artemis aphro duo

and spam dash attacks

getting the hammer for upgraded dash attacks would be ideal

also get either artemis dash or athena dash

[coarse tendon]

what special/attack boon should I aim for?

[hazy slate]

aphro attack for more base damage on nemesis since it has built in crits

get artemis special (or demeter special if you want priveleged status)

if you get demeter special get artemis cast for the duo for more crit damage on weak

[unkempt zephyr]

for me best nemesis for new player its Demeter on attack. and add artemis and aphro. becaus you still have huge crits. but all enemy so slow and you have more time to react.

[hazy slate]

thats also works

[unkempt zephyr]

and priveleged status easy to take with demeter on attack + aphro some were.

[cobalt field]

would you recommend to focus more on the attack or special with the shield?

[hazy slate]

its preference i think

but i usually go chaos aspect and try doing stuff with status effects

[coarse tendon]

I always bull rush with shield and try to get status boon on special @cobalt field

[cobalt field]

alright thanks folks 🙂

[unkempt zephyr]

some think like this

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/758485427723698186/758493969683316796/unknown.png

[hearty elbow]

What is this graphic?

[coarse tendon]

yeah the nemesis sword already feels way stronger

[unkempt zephyr]

i draw it for my friend. In game update 1.0 to he can easy beat Hades with sword.

[hearty elbow]

Interesting choice. If you wanted the chill, why not swap and use Heartbreak Strike with Mistral Dash since it's more damage on both fronts, with a lot more consistent Weak application.

[unkempt zephyr]

i choose Demeter attack to maximaze SLow to he can easy react on any troubles.

and its give AoE on near 100 bonus damage in huge area.

[lone lava]

Isn't nem sword meta aphro attack, artemis dash, double dash strike hammer

And then aph arte duo

[hearty elbow]

Aphro/Athena attack, Athena/Artemis Dash

Meta doesn't matter to a brand new player though. Fact of the matter is that slowing enemies down to the point they can't do anything is a lot safer than Deflect if you don't know what the animations are in the first place.

[unkempt zephyr]

Athena attack,aphro dash,special artemis give more damage.becaus 20% crit chance and bonus back stab damage.its more that just +20% damage from difference betwin athena scaling and aphro scaling on attack.but its not dash build.

[hearty elbow]

That's a personal preference for you perhaps, but Zagreus and Nemesis aspects are better off numerically by just dash striking only.

[unkempt zephyr]

dont know. i take huge 3th hit. and can do 1.2-1.3k. or i combain chop with dash. becauc im artur mainer. i know how dash and save combo count.

[hearty elbow]

Zag/Nemesis and Arthur swords are completely different.

[unkempt zephyr]

same mechanic to same combo when use dash

not in artur its just little harder. becaus attack faster.

[hearty elbow]

Lol, yeah, they have the same combo mechanic, but there is no point for Zag/Nemesis when you could just dash strike the entire time. The base damage of the normal attacks of the base sword is so bad it's not worth using.

[lone lava]

Oh sorry didn't read the start of the convo my bad

[unkempt zephyr]

man read please. i pref Cruel Thrust and World Splitter

[lone lava]

Yeah dem is really good for newer players especially

If you can maintain chill stacks on bosses it's super nice

[unkempt zephyr]

Yeah dem is really good for newer players especially
@lone lava yup.as i say. if was for my friend to he can beat hades easy. and can react to any danger.

[onyx parcel]

I can’t

I can’t anymore

I can’t deal with EM4

I give up

[naive tusk]

https://streamable.com/3lnq33

[stiff flume]

someone quickly give me a spear hades aspect build

i assume just crit?

artemis aphrodite athena?

[limber flax]

base shield