oh wait
#h1-builds-and-combat
grand mason
oh what, that's not my own vid
void fjord
well vengeful mood is the afk mood
half crater
we need a #haelian-promotion channel tbh
sullen valley
lol
void fjord
@sullen valley more often you'll die the first time cause you dont his attacks (especially when he uses his oar), but it's definitly possible to beat him first try technically
sullen valley
Yeye
I just, Heat Level 14? 13? First time using Chaos, and I just applied Doom with my attack, I think. I don't remember much of that fight,
but it was definitely..."easy-ish," if wounding.
half crater
doom on chaos works decently
void fjord
well with shield anything is ez imo
half crater
i randomly cleared 32 before i knew how to play this game with a build like that lol
that was pre nerf chaos tho
sullen valley
idk Hermes telling me "You REALLY shouldn't do that" told me I should'a died, lol. He's kinda slow, I guess.
void fjord
doing it fists especially in tartarus is scary
sullen valley
O o f
half crater
well with shield anything is ez imo
@void fjord use more heat then lol
cunning urchin
^
sullen valley
The block thing
void fjord
i have done 20 heat fists and stuff
sturdy wind
do 21 heat fists
void fjord
cause nyaan tells there's no 32 only 40+
half crater
i still haven't cracked 40
sullen valley
"Sorry I can't go any hotter. 's as hot as it goes."
cunning urchin
50+ only.
40+ is where you start existing.
But you don't exist yet. You're still in the process of beginning to exist.
sullen valley
How good of an idea would it be to try max heat despite being on 16 heat max so far?
cunning urchin
I mean.
You're not gonna make it. But I guess it could be fun and maybe you'd get in some good practice?
sullen valley
snrrk
cunning urchin
There's potential it would just be way too overwhelming and you wouldn't learn from it, though.
half crater
i started my habit of periodically yoloing max heat pretty soon after my first clear
yeah don't think i learn much from it, but its amusing
cunning urchin
Nobody's done max heat or anything close to it in 1.0.
bronze sorrel
gets absolutely murdered in the first room
"There is no Escape"
cunning urchin
And only 5 of us did 50+ at all pre-1.0.
half crater
oh wow
void fjord
i have learnt its good to add 5 heat after clearing that heat level 2 or 3 times
half crater
that's even less of you than i thought there were
sullen valley
I just need to not get hit, sounds easy enough ||I'm gonna heccin death||
cunning urchin
Yeah, not saying not to try lol. Just don't expect anything lol.
bronze sorrel
Who are the 5 real Hades players again? You, Haelion, Wriste and?
cunning urchin
No, Wriste13 never did 50+.
bronze sorrel
Oh rly? Just speeds?
cunning urchin
He's done high heat records, but not 50+.
bablo, haelian, me, Tailesque, horheristo.
bronze sorrel
So is it worth trying to learn a controller and mouse setup for this game?
sullen valley
Is it worth trying Chaos on any high-heat games?
cunning urchin
@weak moat helped me a lot with strategizing, though, when I was training for 52. Especially in the Hades fight.
Definitely one of the best players, so I'm not surprised you'd think he did 50+ lol.
Chaos Gates on high heat? Yeah, sure. Especially if you have TD or Persuasion rerolls (or both).
plucky kiln
Hey:) need some help with elysium boss. Currently tried it 3 times and on last time I focused minotaur first(had shield+lots of aries dooms, so just killed him with those) and then other guy started to blast aoe attacks, so if I got it correctly, I should try to kill them at the same time?
half crater
if you don't phase Theseus he won't start blasting
cunning urchin
Especially Chaos Gates in Tartarus. If you get something that ends your run somehow, it's not much of a loss. Just go again.
plucky kiln
Phase?
main osprey
I'd suggest completely focusing the Minotaur first, and ignoring Theseus
then go for Theseus after you take down the Minotaur
half crater
sorry hit enter halfway through writing lol
bronze sorrel
Phase?
@plucky kiln where they get the invincible shield
plucky kiln
Yeah that's what I did, but then it triggers his aoe attacks? Or I was just unlucky with timing
half crater
yeah basically kill the asterius completely before phasing theseus, is generally the idea
sullen valley
Theseus is more of a support character, usually sniping you from afar while Asterius is the main fighter.
plucky kiln
Ahh
half crater
then you don't have to deal with god call and charging bull at the same time
bronze sorrel
I like to kill theseus first to shut his mouth. Then fight asterius with honor.
plucky kiln
Yeah I got hang of the minotaur due to his solo stage by now, however those two are still difficult to take on at once lol
prisma dove
Its easier to pick off the minotaur because of his moveset
half crater
I like to kill theseus first to shut his mouth. Then fight asterius with honor.
@bronze sorrel honestly i do this half the time as well, but most people seem to go bull first
sullen valley
Just evade Theseus for now.
prisma dove
Eventually youll get the hang of getting behind the pillars to evade the spear throw
plucky kiln
Whenever I see him aiming at me I rush to pillar, lol
prisma dove
Another thing to note is that Mr. Loudmouth gets a specific boon from whichever Goddess or God decides to put up with him
bronze sorrel
Ive heard Asterius first for survival, Theseus first for speed. That's been a good rule of thumb for me.
drifting vale
I "focus" theseus first usually but in reality i do both at the same time since asterius charges you anyway
prisma dove
Yeah, the bull can get really frisky with you if you ignore him for too long
especially those rushes, they can get really hampering
plucky kiln
Another thing to note is that Mr. Loudmouth gets a specific boon from whichever Goddess or God decides to put up with him
@prisma dove
So it's same as hydra or succubus having different forms?
bronze sorrel
I doesn't afraid of him in the Arena. He's scarrier in the little room, esp if you get trapped in his spin.
prisma dove
Ehh no not really
prisma dove
His spear gets Jolt effects when enhanced by Zeus, and his spin gets a whirpool effect that deals knockback when he gets Posidon
plucky kiln
Ohh
cunning urchin
High-skill tip is to focus down Theseus because it reduces his attack to mainly just his easily i-framed spin, and you'll never lose sight of him, plus Asterius stays very close, so you can easily hit both a lot. But if you're still learning the fight at all, you 100% want to learn Asterius's moveset first. If you get the miniboss fight with him, you can practice just evading his attacks consistently without going for Attacks. Then in the fight vs Theseus, do the same again but behind some pillar away from Theseus, then once Asterius is down, focus on just avoiding attacks from Theseus at close range. This way you get to really practice the fight and can easily see the moments where they take some time to recover and you have an opening to attack safely.
Once you're used to both, you can focus on taking down both at the same time while focusing on Theseus.
prisma dove
Ooohh what SHE SAID
bronze sorrel
Once you're used to both, you can focus on taking down both at the same time while focusing on Theseus.
@cunning urchin
Still true for EM3?
glad plaza
I would like to petition to nerf Athena
drifting vale
For em 3 id say mostly yes i try to stay behind theseus for until end of first phase
glad plaza
If you get any of three of the attack, special or dash there is no way you'd screw up hard enough to not clear
FFS
bronze sorrel
I would like to petition to nerf Athena
@glad plaza here we go again...
half crater
last game i got ambiguity +2%, what's that gonna do?
glad plaza
if I ever get a choice I will never not pick athena
drifting vale
Bouldy buff pls
half crater
gotta be at least +10% c'mon
prisma dove
Oh you gifted Bouldy something right
small stirrup
They are all in good standing right now so let them be 😠
prisma dove
Its always random whenever you choose to gift the Boulder something
it could be Ambiguety, it could be movment speed, it could be something bad but like at a smaller percentage
half crater
They are all in good standing right now so let them be 😠
@small stirrup in all seriousness, this is correct
main osprey
it does a lot!
half crater
this game is actually surprisingly well balanced, at least at lower heats
main osprey
it's just ambiguous...
prisma dove
Pretty sure there was one that actually hurt you in some way
cunning urchin
@bronze sorrel I only play EM3 with FO2, so that's not an option at all most of the time lol. He zooms around way too fast.
main osprey
no lol, definitely not a harmful one yummi
sullen valley
...Chaos?
half crater
once we asked greg what it did and he replied 🤷♂️
so yeah definitely a powerful buff
prisma dove
Nah it was the phrasing
"you do not know if you believe in Bouldy"
Thats why i thought it was negative
sullen valley
Ye, that's just ambiguity
cunning urchin
Maybe it is negative.
sullen valley
It means...nothing, really.
cunning urchin
Maybe it is positive.
prisma dove
Its doubt
cunning urchin
Who can say. 
drifting vale
Let me give bouldy a hug
half crater
ye why can we pet cerberus but no hug bouldy
prisma dove
According to Google. Ambiguity just means that its open to interpertation
also no @topaz prawn
I like Impending doom, especially with the privileged statues
half crater
no its good
cunning urchin
Yes, it's good or bad.
prisma dove
yeah its ambigues
drifting vale
Please go like my very important feedback
half crater
this is a game about bouldy now
cunning urchin
It's bad when it's a slower overkill, it's good otherwise; it's excellent with ME, either way.
half crater
Please go like my very important feedback
@drifting vale liking that feedback is the most important thing i've done in my life
next moss
what does ambiguity do 
i'm not at the point where i can throw away nectars yet
half crater
makes you win the game
next moss
seems balanced
half crater
or possibly nothing
cunning urchin
@next moss ||nothing, but Bouldy's other boons do something.||
next moss
oh ok
prisma dove
Its open to interpertation
cunning urchin
I guess it might be good with it?
half crater
honestly is dire misfortune any good?
cunning urchin
Honestly, Doom builds practically all aim for Merciful End.
half crater
i might be undervaluing it, but i basically never take it
yeah 'cause ME seems to make it redundant
cunning urchin
Which just outshines all the other boons that affect Doom. So they end up not really mattering all that much.
Lord Ares + Lady Athena Duo Boon.
Your attacks that can Deflect immediately activate Doom effects.
Doom Combo Damage: 40
half crater
unrelated but it kinda baffles me they left the doom combo damage in
i was sure they were gonna nerf/remove that
its completely unnecessary
cunning urchin
With Divine Dash to trigger Doom, ME generally seals the run. So anything beyond that is just extra.
half crater
it still says 40?
stoic thicket
Have to say the change they did was probably the best way to handle this without ruining the boon.
cunning urchin
It was nerfed from 50 to 40.
half crater
that's not much of a nerf tho
stoic thicket
Still works as before with slightly less added damage, just more difficult to get.
half crater
they could have taken it away completely and it would still have been fantastic
untold vortex
the pre-req changes where the biggest nerf
cunning urchin
The real nerf was that only Divine Dash or Divine Flourish work as a requirement now. So any standard Curse of Agony + Divine Dash ME build will also require Divine Flourish now.
untold vortex
it also as a byproduct made deadly reversal hard to get with a ME build
(it also got nerfed)
cunning urchin
I don't know. It doesn't change the meta much tbh. ME still rules supreme on a lot of aspects.
untold vortex
without completely kneecapping ME that was never really gonna change
prisma dove
If you dont mind me asking, Whats this ME EM4 stuff you guys are throwing around?
half crater
its a secret code we use to confuse newcomers
small stirrup
Lmao I just joined the convo at the perfect time and I got so confused
cunning urchin
Actually.
prisma dove
oh i see
cunning urchin
We're all talking about ourselves.
cunning urchin
The nerf to me = I was nerfed.
prisma dove
oh wtf is that
prisma dove
NNMMEM4ME?
cunning urchin
NM52.
half crater
@prisma dove there's a key for the heat abbreviations in the #h1-high-heat-strategies pins
small stirrup
Nyaannyaan MewMew
sullen valley
Lookin at this convo makes me want to evade the swear filter.
small stirrup
XD
main osprey
ruh-roh
prisma dove
im still unsure as to why there is a swear filter in the first place
small stirrup
Aggy we got a loose canon be careful
prisma dove
Zagures already curses
main osprey
young'un friendly server
sullen valley
What, "Blood and Darkness"?
prisma dove
Piss
cunning urchin
@sullen valley looks like you're under surveillance now.
prisma dove
He says Piss
sullen valley
a
prisma dove
Im going to piss so hard on you'
bronze sorrel
FB@H (Fredgerd Bad at Hades)
half crater
ye "blood and darkness" is the real inconsistency
prisma dove
i tried
untold vortex
shades, definitely a swear
small stirrup
I agree
sullen valley
ohp-
prisma dove
great, now i really want to hear Zagreus swear hardcore
That should be the new reward when completing 58 Heat
sullen valley
secret swear mod where someone pays Darren on fiverr to record swear lines for zagreus
cusses every time he dies
cunning urchin
Royalty such as I does not swear. So the swear filter is to force good manners on ye commoners.
cunning urchin
👸🏽
small stirrup
Nyaan's being royal again
prisma dove
just a line Zagreus screams at when he finally offs his father
small stirrup
Yummi no
prisma dove
damn
untold vortex
I kinda wanna hear Zagreus with a full blown Aussie bogan accent ngl
half crater
I kinda wanna hear Zagreus with a full blown Aussie bogan accent ngl
@untold vortex as the resident full blown aussie bogan i approve this message
prisma dove
I can't really tell what accent Zagreus has
sullen valley
n no
untold vortex
me too ohokwy 
cunning urchin
If you wanna hear Zagreus talk like Skelly, talk to Skelly.
prisma dove
Skelly shares the same VA as Zagreus?
small stirrup
Ye
prisma dove
man thats cool
untold vortex
skelly's accent ain't australian nor bogan 😛
cunning urchin
I didn't say it was.
small stirrup
C'mon Boyo
prisma dove
yeah its somewhere along the lines of Toad in terms of annoyance
untold vortex
I misread then 
cunning urchin
Hades: You're never getting out of here, boy.
Zagreus: C'mere, boyo! Hit me!
untold vortex
though I still kinda wished skelly was a ||romance option||
prisma dove
I read that last line in Jokers voice
untold vortex
seeing ||Darren romancing himself would be a great fun||
sullen valley
oh god
half crater
headcanon: everyone in the underworld has an aussie accent
do i really need to finish the pun?
sullen valley
Joker Skelly
prisma dove
C'mon hit me, hit me HIT ME
bronze sorrel
Skelly shares the same VA as Zagreus?
@prisma dove plot twist, Skelly is Zags fully mortal son from the future.
cunning urchin
Skelly is Zag from the future.
half crater
Skelly is Zag from the future.
that does explain why he's so vague about his identity
prisma dove
About why he was a sea criminal?
small stirrup
I mean the 4th aspects are technically time travelling
prisma dove
I still can't get my head wrapped around that
How come Achilles didn't recognize his own spear
Or rather, how did that spear come into Achilles possession in the first place if hes already dead
bronze sorrel
Also why Hermes knows. Hermes flew future zag back in time. Also why Skelly like getting murdered repeatedly so much.
small stirrup
He probably used Varatha once in his life time
cunning urchin
This should probably move to #h1-story-discussion lol.
prisma dove
damn
small stirrup
Probably
half crater
oh we in builds and combat lmao
prisma dove
Anyway does anyone actually play Achilles spear
small stirrup
yes
prisma dove
how???
half crater
Anyway does anyone actually play Achilles spear
@prisma dove yes yes this was a conversation about achilles spear all along
bronze sorrel
What build did Zagreus use to go back in time? There, now its legal
half crater
totally channel relevant
small stirrup
One of my fav runs with Achilles is the meme beam
cunning urchin
If anyone asks, it's @untold vortex's fault we all went so far off-topic.
half crater
nods
untold vortex
👀
small stirrup
I concur
prisma dove
I will whole heartedly backstabb that man
As long as i get paid in gemstones because APPARENTLY THEY ARE RARE AS FRICK
small stirrup
I literally thought you evaded the filter for a sec
half crater
i'm rolling in gems post update lol
prisma dove
@half crater may god smite you
half crater
they're everywhere
small stirrup
But they aren't rare, just really hard to grind
cunning urchin
What build would you use for those backstabs?
prisma dove
Probably the regular Zag build
cunning urchin
Which god? Gotta be more specific.
half crater
@half crater may god smite you
@prisma dove ...which one?
hope its aphrodite
prisma dove
its artemis sorry
half crater
rip
small stirrup
Nyes
prisma dove
specifcally Artemis for that question btw @cunning urchin
because i don't think OH
ATHENA
cunning urchin
That's okay. Lady Artemis never hits anything.
prisma dove
GOD DAMN IT I FORGO
small stirrup
prisma dove
man that was low
small stirrup
Nyaan take that back
cunning urchin
It's not my fault her trial is so easy.
small stirrup
She doesn't want to hurt you
cunning urchin
Maybe she's not really trying? She does seem very tsundere.
half crater
lady artemis hits loads of things
prisma dove
God i just want to replace Artemis with Apollo
small stirrup
🔫
cunning urchin
Apollo is so boring.
prisma dove
Look, would you rather the green haired racoon?
untold vortex
Artemis occasionally hits Lernie in the face for face melting damage
prisma dove
or the tanned jock?
bronze sorrel
Take it back, I still want Apollo and Hera boons added as dlc
prisma dove
YOU CANT SILENCE THE TRUTH
half crater
i want hestia boons
small stirrup
I want more Bouldy boons
half crater
because i can't set anything on fire atm and that's a problem
actually no you're right; bouldy dlc is required
cunning urchin
To be fair, anything hits Lernie in the face for that kind of damage. Lernie has like no HP lol.
cunning urchin
2k HP per phase.
prisma dove
What is the best call anyway?
prisma dove
Aphordite does like 2K damage
half crater
2.5k yeah
small stirrup
I'd say Dio and Poseidon
cunning urchin
It's between Dionysus' Aid, Poseidon's Aid, and Zeus' Aid.
prisma dove
Doesn't Dio just inflict, and not actually damge?
small stirrup
The poison inflicted from it does more damage then you'd think
untold vortex
the stacks do huge tics of hangover damage though
prisma dove
Poseidon's is really funny to use, especially with the typohoon Boon
half crater
oh agreed
prisma dove
ahhh gotcha
half crater
i'm just very bad at using it effectively
small stirrup
yes
half crater
also ye dio's is great
cunning urchin
Dionysus' Aid is easily #1 for DPS. You'll want to use Lesser Calls instead of Greater Calls for it to maximize your Hangover uptime.
prisma dove
ooohh
small stirrup
I use Poseidon for invul more than the damage
prisma dove
is there any reason to use Greater Calls anyway?
half crater
spam WASD
in the general vicinity
@prisma dove jokes on you 'cause that's just my strategy all the time
did i mention i'm bad at this game?
prisma dove
Should've prefaced that yeah
small stirrup
No you did not
cunning urchin
More damage per god gauge spent on some calls for Greater Calls.
And it can help you burst through difficult phases.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gm04kroX-p7lMNSmNcFdKCw4mmff-5i83QsKVwOBNDA/edit?usp=sharing
small stirrup
Like Artemis or Aphro
prisma dove
Ok thank you
small stirrup
But Aphro's charm is better imo
untold vortex
aphro's charm in a call can be a lifesaver
cunning urchin
If all of you are bad, it makes you average for being bad, so there's no need to feel bad about it, right?
prisma dove
so im average?
half crater
i love aphro's call
it turns champions into a minigame where you try to get them to kill each other
prisma dove
Man thats what they;ve been telling me all my life
cunning urchin
I should feel bad for being the outlier. 
prisma dove
yeah you should
cunning urchin
Poor me.
prisma dove
stop being good
cunning urchin
I–I'll try. 
small stirrup
Lol good luck
prisma dove
yeah consider how other people are feeling whenever they see you ace this game flawlessly
cunning urchin
My personal assessment, the #1 Call by far in the game right now is Zeus' Aid.
small stirrup
Nice opinion
half crater
If all of you are bad, it makes you average for being bad, so there's no need to feel bad about it, right?
this is genius
cunning urchin
For the simple fact that Heartbreak Strike/Flourish is the best choice on so many aspects, so getting Zeus' Aid will immediately unlock Smoldering Air in their pool (requires core boons from both + any call, so Zeus' Aid meets both requirements).
And Smoldering Air is easily one of the very best boons in the game.
He also has easy access to boosting Lightning Bolt damage + Billowing Strength which is easy to keep up like 90% of the time with Smoldering Air because you can Call every 5 seconds.
It also turns Second Wind into one of the very best boons in the game.
small stirrup
Was that a pun...?
prisma dove
Im assuming it was
small stirrup
Nice
cunning urchin
Huh?
cunning urchin
Typo.
cunning urchin
In a better place?
Not on the internet?
I take it back. That would be a worse place.
half crater
agree
robust geyser
Question: do god keepsakes influence duo boon chance?
cunning urchin
Yeah.
robust geyser
Nice.
odd seal
jesus, I just got exclusive access in tartarus
robust anchor
i love athena
robust anchor
not very useful
sometimes i luckily get my perfect 1 or 2 boons in floor 1, floor 2 instead of a god keepsake i just take ||blossom||
untold vortex
@stiff jacinth ||pom blossom is end game spoilers, so please spoiler tag it||
untold vortex
personally I find ||pom blossom|| incredible in styx
stiff jacinth
...I hadn't thought about that 🤔
My strategy has been to take it early to get some extra oomph out of my early boons and switch to a defensive keepsake later on
But I was wondering if I'm just remembering the highs and glossing over the lows
unkempt zephyr
How to look all hammer upgrades to just read they for aspect of ||Lucifer?Becaus they different||
next moss
i'm doing the same @stiff jacinth
i find that in the earlier floors i usually rush an attack/special boon (unless athedash) and ||poms blossom has the biggest bang in the early levels. Endgame the poms levels have too much risk going to passives or dash||
stiff jacinth
Yeah, same. But sometimes I get a hammer from my first chamber, which is normally something I feel good about, but then I don't see a boon until chamber 5, which feels real bad
cunning urchin
Leveling Dashes can be great.
stoic thicket
Yeah, more power to Splash Dash? Gimme gimme.
stiff jacinth
Ares Dash with ||Aspect of Gilgamesh|| is one of my favorite combos.
cunning urchin
Hmmm I wonder. I haven't tried that particular build with Fists 4. My issue with that is if you see Lord Ares, you can build for ME instead of Blade Dash. That's giving up a lot. 
What else are you going for with that?
fierce thicket
why not both?
cunning urchin
ME build is Curse of Agony + Divine Dash.
stoic roost
Just got ||aspect 4 on the gun|| about to give it a try.
cunning urchin
So you can't have both.
fierce thicket
right, I knew that and still...i'm dumb
cunning urchin
No worries lol.
stoic roost
What would be a good starting boon to go with for it?
cunning urchin
Meta honestly is just Lightning Strike and pick up Divine Dash or Support Fire along the way.
Or both.
But I've seen a lot of people like Tempest Strike? I don't know if that's a meme build or really effective, but a lot of people enjoy it.
stoic roost
Gotcha. Don't think my Zeus keepsake is maxed yet. So I can use it again I suppose lol.
cunning urchin
Most people avoid the Special, unfortunately, so I don't know how you would build for it. I've heard Thunder Flourish works well on it, though.
cunning urchin
If you want to try it, sure.
cunning urchin
Hera loads casts into your Attack, then releases it upon your Attack. So it's a little different from standard cast builds.
proven osprey
oh ok
cunning urchin
But it's an aspect specifically for casts.
proven osprey
I'll start by the classic
cunning urchin
The truest "caster" aspect would be Poseidon, I suppose.
If you want to make use of its unique ability, you'd use Infernal Soul. But Stygian Soul is also a common pick for it.
proven osprey
Yeah I was about to ask
cunning urchin
Either way, you'll get some extra cast damage.
hearty elbow
With Stygian Soul and some RNG yeah why not
If you get a couple of extra casts and a Hermes boon to shorten the cooldown you can spam to your heart's content
hearty elbow
Achilles and Hera and my favorite cast aspects atm
I only started Achilles yesterday and I am a trash fire, but I recognize the potential
proven osprey
rush dmg affects cast ?
hearty elbow
Yeah
hearty elbow
Best with non-lodging casts. The reason I spent the blood was because apparently I never picked up Cold Embrace or Crystal Clarity for the prophecy lol
I think Hunting Blades is probably a lot more consistent
hollow geyser
Is there any balance reason for why the tight deadline timer doesn't stop after you cleared a room?
cunning urchin
The classic cast build is Poseidon Aspect + Infernal Soul + True Shot. Then just build on that with more crit boons.
hearty elbow
More frustrating, it starts ticking a confusing amount of time before Thanatos actually leaves the room and you can see the door options
cunning urchin
Plus poms on True Shot.
And Master Chaos buffs to cast or ammo.
More frustrating, it starts ticking a confusing amount of time before Thanatos actually leaves the room and you can see the door options
That's always awkward. But I just remind myself that the chamber was still essentially free for TD.
proven osprey
Ty Nyan
hearty elbow
Yeah, it's fine, but I've always wondered why it was coded that way, when there is already precedent for rooms that just don't tick the timer, like story rooms
untold vortex
my guess is it's innately tied into IGT in general
hollow geyser
In theory you could spend more time clearing pots for gold/hp with dusa keepsake if timer wasn't ticking down all the time
wicked tusk
read a few keepsakes reviews, why is collar s tier? 
untold vortex
it's incredible early on in a save
untold vortex
it's moreso you get 2 (at max rank) centuar souls for almost free (since you're using up your keepsake slot for it) and early on the hp pool you have, let alone death defiance's in limited so anything to help with survivability goes a long way
wicked tusk
lemme give it a try
hollow geyser
what's top players winrate (roughly) at 32 heat btw?
hearty elbow
100%
vital shadow
I upgraded Demeter over Talos. Mistake? I feel Talos is too punishing in the rats room etc where you pull in things you cannot insta melt. :/
hearty elbow
@weak moat streaked every aspect in Blood Price at 32 on stream
dark quail
Whats a god way to build a crit arthur build?
hearty elbow
That way
untold vortex
if you like demeter aspect then it ain't a waste Tekno ^_^
hollow geyser
thanks
hearty elbow
Build crit on Arthur, done
dark quail
So just artemis for attack?
random light
I upgraded Demeter over Talos. Mistake? I feel Talos is too punishing in the rats room etc where you pull in things you cannot insta melt. :/
@vital shadow Demeter is great, it just needs a little blood. Level 3 onwards it’s incredible.
Demeter is my favorite of the fist aspects and one of my personal top three, it’s a lot of fun
There’s no real waste in Hades, since resources can be farmed almost infinitely
hearty elbow
@hollow geyser People who aren't Wriste or bablo will likely have a specialty though. E.g. I can personally streak Bows and Rails indefinitely on 32 Heat (assuming no stupid pact combos like FO2 EM4).
dark quail
What are the worst aspects in your opinion?
wicked tusk
bruh imo talos with +3 health on kill is literally free for the rats room
dark quail
Or the least good at least
hearty elbow
Lucifer, Fist4, Zag sword imo
But it's not by some extreme margin, the game is very balanced
hollow geyser
I tried fist4 for first time and found it pretty awkward to use
but wouldn't know how good/badf it is
barren bridge
Spire4 is horrible too
hearty elbow
yyeeah, I gave up trying to use ||Maim|| after I misjudged, tried to burst a Lout with dash + upper, left it with a sliver of health, too much delay to dash again, applied debuff, then ate a nice thicc hit in exchange.
Spire?
stoic thicket
Lucie is one of my favorite aspects, unless it falls off crazily above 20 heat I don't see how that thing makes the worst aspect list even close.
hearty elbow
The same reason why in Blood Price, Zag sword occupied its own special low tier. Nemesis was just better than it in every regard. As people got used to Lucifer, and now with Eris buffed, there just isn't a practical reason to use the aspect at the moment. You get a horrible delay to your attack, no ability to destroy projectiles, no access to Ricochet, for what, a very slightly faster attack rate when Lightning is ICD capped anyway?
The special is extremely awkward to use and nearly impossible to detonate properly with controller + auto aim
But yeah, the game is balanced for the most part and you can do whatever you want at low/mid heats
marsh pumice
just dont use controller 
stoic thicket
Truth be told I have found myself being envious of the controller auto aim. In particular with things like Hestia or Zag bow.
hearty elbow
Holy cow Hestia would be so hard without auto aim
It misses half the time with auto aim if you don't position right lol
stoic thicket
KB/M player here, I whiff more on that thing than I care to admit.
unkempt pagoda
KBM gang rise up
stoic thicket
Hestia is still a mountain of fun.
hearty elbow
The real treasure is the whiffs you make along the way
stoic thicket
So many missed Skulls.
unkempt pagoda
hestia feels great until you have to go against a numbskull horde without piercing, explosive, or ricochet 😔
vital shadow
@random light oh thanks, will definitely try my best with Demeter!
copper harbor
had the hestia bow with aphrodite casts yesterday
the cast seemed to only hit behind whatever I targeted most of the time, anyone else run in to this?
unkempt pagoda
yeah crush shot has weird interactions with hera
final karma
huh, aphrodites cast on heras aspect reacts oddly. Sometimes it will get stuck in an enemy, and other times it drops immediately after it hits
stoic thicket
I mean Hestia still has the regular old attack, it's not like you have to use the empowered shot against small pests.
stoic thicket
Yeah, I know. It's just an option to deal with that stuff instead of whiffing the empowered ones constantly.
final karma
I actually really like the base rail
cunning urchin
read a few keepsakes reviews, why is collar s tier?
There are keepsake tier lists?
steady hatch
tier lists are always subjective anyway
final karma
They totally are. and also it depends on what kind of run you are doing. For someone that needs a bit of help beating the game, I totally think old collar is great.
hearty elbow
Kotaku tier lists
limber pine
stoic thicket
Collar is super helpful early to make some progress, it falls off once you get Thick Skin.
final karma
lol, you do know most gaming sites make stuff like that just to try to capitalize on game launches right?
stoic thicket
Bone Hourglass too.
final karma
LOL
untold vortex
Yeah, all the olympian keepsakes being all over the place too
final karma
I haven't earned spearpoint yet, but I know it's one of the best
limber pine
my friend asked me about keepsakes and showed me a SS from that website
Spearpoint used to be good, I don't think it's the best now
unkempt pagoda
collar in s? spearpoint in d?
cunning urchin
Owl Pendant in the same tier as Feather Duster. 
unkempt pagoda
god keepsakes somehow having different values than each other?
hearty elbow
Owl Pendant in not SSS++?
Okay, well, lol, let's be real
Owl Pendant is Owl Pendant, the other God keepsakes are not
cunning urchin
As you can see, I very much favour the survival-oriented effects
puts Broken Spearpoint in bottom tier
Huh.
limber pine
Feather Duster was funky lol
untold vortex
There's only a couple of keepsakes I'd put at S tier. Those being acorn, spearpoint and athena's
hearty elbow
I've toyed a lot more with Spearpoint in Styx because of EM4. I get hit... a lot more than 5 times
limber pine
"oh hey, free food"
cunning urchin
god keepsakes somehow having different values than each other?
100%. There are gods you want to force, and gods you don't mind taking. They're not in the same category tbh.
stoic thicket
Depends on the run you want to do.
hearty elbow
On my Switch save, Frostbitten Horn is still happily at Level 1, with 15 encounters required to level up. Every other God keepsake is 3 lol
final karma
Sometimes I really want to try a specific style, so I choose a god I might not otherwise.
cunning urchin
You take Frostbitten Horn for Chill Meme runs. Pun intended.
untold vortex
||pom blossom|| is an odd one that could hypothecally sit between A and S tier for me
final karma
Each keepsake has its place in its own situation.
hearty elbow
The only use I've found for ||Pom Blossom|| is getting some truly meme worthy runs with Eris and Drunken Strike
hollow geyser
When is Skull Earring useful?
steady hatch
i've used Demeter keepsake quite a bit for speedruns
hollow geyser
I can't seem to find a use for it
cunning urchin
Or as @covert grove, you take Frostbitten Horn because you actually main Crystal Beam. Though, as haelian, you will 100% see it in your run either way, so you don't need to take it. haelian could buy a random boon from the shop with AP2, and it will be Crystal Beam that rerolls into Crystal Beam lol.
hollow geyser
I guess the one defiance per room plus dio
hearty elbow
Skull Earring is mostly active all the time with Stubborn Defiance. But's it's only additive, and it's not a God keepsake or Acorn/spearpoint so....
unkempt zephyr
Or as @covert grove, you take Frostbitten Horn because you actually main Crystal Beam. Though, as haelian, you will 100% see it in your run either way, so you don't need to take it. haelian could buy a random boon from the shop with AP2, and it will be Crystal Beam that rerolls into Crystal Beam lol.
@cunning urchin 🤣
cunning urchin
Skull Earring is mostly active all the time with Stubborn Defiance.
Not exactly. Stubborn Defiance rounds up, so you often get more than 30% HP.
hearty elbow
Pretty sure his chat has created a Skinner box that rewards him with subs whenever he takes Crystal Beam
cunning urchin
lol
unkempt zephyr
Can some one tell opinion about best weapon to use Dio poison?||Gilagmesh|| and guns?
steady hatch
chaos shield
foggy wagon
Bow special
hearty elbow
Eris + Drunken Strike, Rama/Chaos/Chiron + Drunken Flourish
foggy wagon
Mind you you really only need 5-8 attacks to land to full stack it
cunning urchin
I'm not even joking tbh. In my mind, he's a Chaos Aspect + Crystal Beam main. That's what he's used for high heat, no?
hearty elbow
Smoldering Air + Dio's Aid on anything
foggy wagon
Is crystal beam good?
hearty elbow
But holy cow especially Eris
cunning urchin
Eris + Smoldering Air is why I'm probably converting from Hestia to Eris lol.
Oh yeah, he also did Zag Bow.
foggy wagon
Zag bow is pretty cash
unkempt zephyr
Is crystal beam good?
@foggy wagon yup.its melt with Arctic Blast and Glacial Glare. Amazing damage with Artemis duo.
hearty elbow
Artemis Duo makes it insane. Stygian Soul + Glacial Glare is quite good too, and makes it so you don't have to go back in danger to fetch them
foggy wagon
Noted, good weapons to go with it? Guessing non-cast build weapons
hearty elbow
Achilles
foggy wagon
Or Poseidon
hearty elbow
Poseidon doesn't really grant anything Achilles doesn't for Crystal Beam though. Achilles also gives a steroid to your attacks while beams are running
unkempt zephyr
i like to take Arctic Blas with Glacial Glare. 3 crystals blow up avery second AoE on 80-100 average damage. and anihilate not bosses.
foggy wagon
Ohh man that's huge bonus damage
No wonder achilles is so popular for non-embedding cast builds
spiral matrix
On a completely different note:
I had too much fun recently with an Ares/Aphrodite Aspect of Chiron Bow build
Ares Aphrodite duo, Aphrodite cast and just constantly apply weaken to constantly trigger doom
hearty elbow
My usual approach is Demeter + Poseidon['s Aid] + Artemis for Crystal Clarity & Mirage Shot. Poseidon's Aid gives you something useful to do while beams are going
spiral matrix
Especially with impending doom and whatever the boon is called that increases damage based on multiple application
hearty elbow
Deadly Strike has great synergy with Achilles steroid
foggy wagon
Does each beam tick charge call?
hearty elbow
Yeah pretty sure
spiral matrix
Every instance of damage taken and dealt charges
foggy wagon
Holy crap?
covert grove
Crystal meme is a lifestyle not a build 
hearty elbow
Crystal meme is a lifestyle not a build :haeliaBadBoySmug:
@covert grove Lol, do you have a bot that trolls for mentions of Crystal Beam in Discord?
unkempt zephyr
And Crystals beam very fast give Aid to player.i like to take Artemis Aid with crystals to melt bosses.
cunning urchin
@covert grove how do you feel about Chaos Aspect in 1.0?
hearty elbow
And Crystals beam very fast give Aid to player.i like to take Artemis Aid with crystals to melt bosses.
@unkempt zephyr I typically hate Artemis' Aid, but this is actually very funny and valid way to use it, especially if you have Pressure Points + Hunter's Instinct
unkempt zephyr
@covert grove how do you feel about Chaos Aspect in 1.0?
@cunning urchin Fun to use it with Artemis and Hammer (Charged Shot). its becomes Like ||Rama ||if add another hammer (+80% damage after Special)
hearty elbow
I didn't know that applied to the Charged Shot
spiral matrix
One shotting phase 3 hydra 
cunning urchin
I was looking for haelian's feedback specifically. Wanna know what the #1 Chaos Aspect user thinks :P
spiral matrix
Using Artemis aid while Artemis is mad during a trial of the gods tho
hearty elbow
I think you need to say Crystal Beam 3 times to summon him.
hearty elbow
Though on stream, he mentioned in his first impressions that he liked it still
foggy wagon
Dude it worked
covert grove
After much consideration, I think I dislike it now. Still a "safe" aspect because of block but it does everything so slowly and inefficiently now... I feel like there aren't great boon choices for it, everything just feels mediocre. I could still try some more things though!
spiral matrix
It worked indeed
covert grove
Not sure Chaos has a place in 50+ heat any more sadly, it's just too slow
hearty elbow
inb4 Haelian TD0 RI3 55 heat
covert grove
Omg I tried TD0 with Chaos @ 50 heat, it was pure misery
unkempt zephyr
And what guys can you say about Talos fists? i only find Pos cast + duo with Ares pretty nice.And with ares on special.And pull enemy in your cast.
hearty elbow
Softly tuck enemies into their graves.
lone lava
Is beo meta for shield for both high heat and speed now then?
hearty elbow
Too early in 1.0 to say anything is meta for high heat at least
You have specialists who play their aspects, and bablos who set records with everything equally
hearty elbow
Stacks? Eris is global damage buff, so yeah, subsequent bombs when you have the buff will have the 75% bonus
It is extremely good
lucid shore
Ok thanks. Just was curious cause I have both right now and was wondering if it was cause of my heroic attack buff or the cluster bombs
hearty elbow
Though someone else can chime in, I'm not certain. Does -30 + 75 = +45, or is it (.7 * 1.75) = x1.225 (though obviously you're likely to have +damage from more things than just Eris)
In general, not sure how negative and positive additive buffs work
unkempt zephyr
In general, not sure how negative and positive additive buffs work
@hearty elbow its easy find to with ||Codex Menu mod||
marsh pumice
Is there any good dashes for dash build?
Poseidon dash was great. 
proven osprey
well, Artemis ?
fierce thicket
ares
marsh pumice
but Artemis only give dash-strike
dim herald
Anyone got any suggestions for hades or Achilles spear builds? I crush the game with every weapon easily, 4 win streaks no problem, but haven’t gotten a single win with spear
barren otter
Achilles spear benefits a lot from casts
steady hatch
pretty much all casts work with achilles spear
barren otter
Every time I try to build around the attack on Achilles spear, I end up doing a cast run instead.
solid cairn
I prefer poseidon sword but I suck at both
not very experienced with cast builds
I don't find hera or beowulf fun at all
cunning urchin
@covert grove late, but thanks! Good to know my competition has been nerfed. 
solid cairn
I think with poseidon I just stay too close to enemies, like I try to get all my casts into them at once instead of backing off when I should
dim herald
I love Poseidon, I just can’t get a good cast build with Achilles
I prefer the casts that stick in enemies and for the other ones I prefer Hera
valid forge
ive gotten what i thought was the perfect posiden build and it still felt like ass
idk how that weapon should work
solid cairn
what cast
solid cairn
have you tried crush shot
valid forge
thats aphro?
solid cairn
yes
valid forge
hm
i think
artimis is really bad cuz you end up with no aoe
so id be very down to use an aoe cast
solid cairn
you need to use your sword more with artemis
and also with aphro you have to be close up
but you do get a head start on smoldering air
valid forge
but i got exit wounds, fast casting from hermes, some + special size
solid cairn
what heat
marsh pumice
Artemis cast is great for bosses tho
solid cairn
crush shot is good enough for bosses
valid forge
low
solid cairn
like below 16?
mossy breach
If your attack bounces (like that bow hammer) and you have zeus on attack, does it trigger on every bounce? assuming all bounces hit an enemy
solid cairn
well for any cast build, extra max casts are priority numero uno
hearty elbow
If your attack bounces (like that bow hammer) and you have zeus on attack, does it trigger on every bounce? assuming all bounces hit an enemy
@mossy breach Assuming they happen after .2s each, and they should, yeah
valid forge
im going through every weapon other than fists so its kinda slow going
solid cairn
why not just plow through with one weapon and then make the other weapons better
valid forge
i like variety, mostly
would prob get bored if I just went in with same weapon every teim
dim herald
With Poseidon if I get something like flood shot exit wound and one extra cast from chaos I don’t even have to try except on extremely high heat
solid cairn
nemesis is never boring
dim herald
Meanwhile still no spear wins on 1 heat 😓😓
valid forge
i agree nemesis is extremely fun
solid cairn
my highest heat is GY on 17
valid forge
thats my fav sword
solid cairn
I could probably go higher, but I've been getting sidetracked
and on a good GY run I forgot to set the heat above 16, when I probably could have cleared like 20
I wish it would actually save your pact config
you have to like leave and re-enter the room to update it
final karma
huh, hangover does a surprising amount of dmg...
empty gazelle
I like the Zeus and Chaos shields equally, very different play styles.
stable gull
Hello, I've done some past-round research and found that I am 5 wins against the last boss with 3 dashes and 5 losses against last boss with 2 dashes
So I need the 3rd dash. Other than Speed god's +1 dash, are there other sources?
stable gull
Basically I am doomed against the last boss without 3 dashes, according to my stats
valid forge
you know if you're getting nailed by any attacks in particular?
stable gull
Spin. Need the 3rd to get out of range
empty gazelle
I frequently only have 1 dash for the final boss.
stable gull
Thanks Brim will aim for that!
valid forge
2 dashes should be enough to get out of spin im pretty sure
solid cairn
I was confused when you called me brim since this is my name for october only lol
valid forge
also its best to aim to dash as he spins and iframe through it, keeping you in melee
empty gazelle
2 dashes is enough to clear the spin attack.
covert hatch
Once he starts the indicator, he's locked into that direction
So if you dash to the side it only takes one
stable gull
Thanks for the advice, I've been trying to get behind him to avoid the spin reach
But I'll try perpendicular
empty gazelle
The locked direction hasn't been true for me since the v1.0 update... but I dodge straight into him now anyway.
solid cairn
don't take my advice on the final boss I have a bad habit of just trying to face tank him with my DDs
valid forge
the best thing you should do is try to just dash while he spins to max your damage
stable gull
With 3 dashes you can go through him and behind the spin every time... maybe the sideways will let me get away with 2 dashes
valid forge
i think its worth trying to get that timing down
empty gazelle
2 is enough to clear the spins if you dodge straight through him... that's what I do.
stable gull
rng: not for me. 5x losses in a row testing that
empty gazelle
1 is enough if you iframe the spin.
valid forge
ive eaten the spin a ton trying to learn it and being able to dash trhough it is really nice
stable gull
Cool back to it thanks gents
valid forge
i hate it tho its so much slower than I expect
empty gazelle
I run with the single dash option in the mirror so the only way I have multiples if if I pick up extra dashes from Hermes.
robust anchor
what can i do with zag sword? dont say ME
solid cairn
what can i do with zag sword? dont say ME
wish you were using nemesis
robust anchor
darn true
neat hound
Are demeter boons usefull ? Just discovered her rn
empty gazelle
some of them are very nice... especially some of her duos
empty veldt
@robust anchor Nemesis is really really good. Special -> Go Dash attack -> dash attack -> Special. For genera combo
Doing normal attack combo not really worth
With nemesis, since it gives inherent crit, you can go Aphro on Attack, Art on special to get heart rend duo boom and u deal tons of damage @robust anchor
Best upgrades being the double dash attack and backstab. For this kind of playstyle
Flurry slash different combo but boons work the same way with Nemesis
||aspect of arthur|| is also quite good albeit really slow yet masssive damage attack combo. Will take some getting used to but special gives massive damage mitigation aura field which you can stack with Aphro weak effect
I personally dont like world splitter, zeus attack only good on flurry hammer upgrade, meh on everything else. Better use Triple A ladies = Art, Athena, Aphro depending on preference
dark quail
What are the best hammers for arthur?
random light
For Nemesis I love taking the Double Nova Hammer
For Arthur probably Dash Attack hammer
Since you do a lot of that
valid forge
i find demeter really good
her boon pool is smaller than other gods
which makes her rather consistant
empty veldt
Nah dont get dash attack hammer @random light @dark quail
Dash attack hammer doesnt affect arthurs big combo swing if u are able to dash into combos
valid forge
so tis easy to get chill stuff + converting chill into damdage
empty veldt
It only affects the wonky stab for arthur which u dont wanna do @random light @dark quail
valid forge
and her duo boons, as noted by rng, are really good
random light
Nah dont get dash attack hammer
@empty veldt how does the timing work on the combo dashing?
I haven’t used Arthur much, so I kinda suck at it
empty veldt
Basically dash attacks have an ICD, so u gotta just practice the timing
cunning urchin
Very simply, you can dash inbetween the regular 3-hit Attack combo of Stygius without interrupting the combo.
Works for all Stygius aspects.
You actually can't do a Dash-Strike inbetween because of that. You'd have to wait for the combo to "drop" before you can do a Dash-Strike.
It works for all Stygius aspects, but it's for the most part only relevant on Sword 4.
dark quail
So what would be a good hammer for arthur then?
empty veldt
Backstab damage
cunning urchin
Lady Demeter has 9 t1 boons, by the way, that can be issue when trying for a specific core boon.
empty veldt
And the aspect exclusive hammer also quite nice
robust anchor
yes i already use nemesis a lot just wanted to try new stuff
empty veldt
Try out the 4th aspect. Its fun and BIG damage numbers
cunning urchin
Super Nova, Double Nova, Double Edge, Breaching Slash, Shadow Slash, Greater Consecration are all good, honestly.
empty veldt
Poseidon aspect i hear is good to. 50% universal cast damage cant be bad right
empty gazelle
I love Poseidon sword builds.
cunning urchin
There's no truly bad aspect now.
dark quail
Which aspects do you find the most fun?
empty veldt
Well it depends to each person
dark quail
Yup i know
cunning urchin
Fists 4 and Rail 4 need some adjustments, but they're not "bad" exactly.
empty veldt
For me, Aspect of Zag and hidden aspect for Bow are my favorites
dark quail
Asking for opinions 🙂
empty veldt
And Eris on Rail cause super straightforward
cunning urchin
Hmmm.
cunning urchin
Shield 4 and all the Fists aspects are my favorite. I also like Eris and Hestia. Chiron is surprisingly fun now in 1.0. I just did WR with Chiron today, so I have to ad that, obviously, even though I've only done 1 run with it lol. For sword, I like Nemesis and Sword 4, haven't tried Sword 1 since the changes in 1.0, though.
And I dunno about spear, I'm still trying to figure out that weapon lol.
valid forge
zipping arund with achilles spear is just pure fun although i hate the weapon otherwise
cunning urchin
I've been using Spear 4 the most, but I'm not very good with it unless I get Charged Skewer. So I either need to practice a lot more with it or look into the other spear aspects. The weapon is not very intuitive for me lol.
prisma raven
does killing freeze work on bosses?
barren otter
yes
turbid halo
I just got arctic blast and +4 special shots on chiron bow
I do so much damage my god
uneven gale
tfw having to fight the elysium bosses with frost fair blade but have attack curse from chaos. 😦
turbid halo
A single shot + 3 specials phases a fury
empty veldt
I prefer crit on chiron but i generally really like crits
marsh pumice
What is good weapon for fiery presence?
limber pine
Hestia rail
cunning urchin
Hestia, spear 4, Zag bow, shield 4 can all benefit from it in some way.
turbid needle
Well, I'm now only missing a few set of achievements.
I don't know how anyone gets Bad Call when greater calls usually take up to a minute to build
cunning urchin
I still lean towards Shadow Presence, personally, but those aren't bad options at all.
turbid needle
Shadow Presence is dope
cunning urchin
There are some boons that help with building god gauge.
Also, fast-hitting weapons will build gauge a lot faster.
turbid needle
My mirror right now contains:
Shadow Presence
Chthonic Vitality
Death Defiance
Ruthless Reflex
Boiling Blood
Stygian Soul
Golden Touch
High Confidence
Family Favourite
Olympian Favor
Gods' Legacy
Fated Persuasion
cunning urchin
Switch to Dark Foresight. You won't regret it.
half crater
I don't know how anyone gets Bad Call when greater calls usually take up to a minute to build
yo heard of smoldering air?
turbid needle
@cunning urchin I can't parse the description of Dark Foresight
what exactly does it do?
barren otter
I did Bad Call in a trial in Tartarus, didn't have any boons that help the god gauge, had Aphrodite's call, was slowly building up the gauge by destroying Cloner Brimstones and taking damage (costed 2 death defiances just for the achievement, but it was worth it)
half crater
the other way is just max CP and JS gives you a lot more leeway lol
cunning urchin
Yeah, the buff to Dark Foresight had a pretty big and immediate impact on high heat meta, too. You get a lot more max HP and boons in an average run.
half crater
the only reason i don't run dark foresight is i'm scared of common boons
they make me feel bad lmao
turbid needle
I'm still at low heat
like, I'm doing every weapon across the board
and I'm at only 5 now lmao
Also
Does anyone have a preferred keepsake and summon?
and how do I get Dusa rehired?
cunning urchin
Keepsake depends on aspect, and I'm switching between areas.
turbid needle
LC?
cunning urchin
Most typically with EM3:
god > god > acorn > acorn
god > coin purse > acorn > acorn
without EM3:
god > god > coin purse > acorn
god > god/coin purse > hourglass > acorn
half crater
lasting consequences
heat option that reduces healing
huh didn't realise running hourglass in elysium was meta, thought that was just me lol
hearty elbow
There's a sticky for it either here or in the high heat channel
cunning urchin
In #h1-high-heat-strategies, yeah.
hearty elbow
Acronyms/Initialisms can get pretty annoying but it's pretty necessary for pacts
cunning urchin
@half crater hourglass lets you use its effect all through Elysium + again at the Well in the Temple before you switch to Acorn. What's not to like.
cunning urchin
As you keep playing, you get to know all the pact names by heart, so it's easy to tell the pact from the initials, eventually.
At least for me.
hearty elbow
It makes it possible to take extra Nails of Talos or Cyclops Jerkies into Dad fight, so yeah it has a lot of upside
hearty elbow
Or whatever, yeah
empty veldt
Shouldnt u put spoiler tags @hearty elbow
cunning urchin
I don't use hourglass at high heat with CF2. Otherwise, sure, why not? Non-EM Theseus + Asterius fight is free. No reason to use Acorn there. And if I have cash to burn and see a good item at the Well right there . . .
hearty elbow
Dad isn't 1.0 lol
empty veldt
Oh ok
cunning urchin
It's allowed here, yeah.
hearty elbow
Only thing in this channel that needs to be tagged is 1.0+ stuff
cunning urchin
Not allowed in #h1-discussion or #h1-for-new-players.
hearty elbow
Most people start crying with the rules in this discord, so your opinion is novel
cunning urchin
@hearty elbow btw, Amir says there is a small number of targeted balance changes still coming, so there's hope for the aspects. https://discordapp.com/channels/456889434672201729/760619707547123742/761650472485519410
empty veldt
please dont nerf any bows or crit
hearty elbow
That would be kinda insane if they did that lol.
empty veldt
Nah i feel bow is in a good place
hearty elbow
Fist4 is the most obvious, they spent a lot of dev effort to tweak the hidden aspects
half crater
fist4 feels a little clunky to me tbh
hearty elbow
Spear is excellent
half crater
prolly i'm just bad at it idk
empty veldt
What about GY
turbid needle
I honestly haven't played with the other aspects yet because I don't have them maxed out like I do the Zag aspects
empty veldt
I know the special is good but i doubt the devs designed it to be built around the special
hearty elbow
GY is great. I think the spin builds need to be tweaked but I wouldn't hold my breath about that in test branch
cunning urchin
They also probably didn't go over most of the Rail 4 feedback until just before or after 1.0? So I fully expect there will be some changes there. Even if not necessarily major. Typically it just takes some minor tweaks to make those things work.
cunning urchin
Like, the aspect doesn't need a full rework. The core is there. It just needs to, like, work lol.
Spin builds have cleared 40+, no? Seems fine.
Spin doesn't need to be as good at DPS as Special or Dash-Strike to be viable.
It makes up for it in unique survivability.
turbid needle
I honestly don't like anything with charge on it
The charge doesn't justify the damage output
empty veldt
I’m guessing no
turbid needle
like, most of my weapons can do about 1200 or so damage by endgame with a single set of strikes in the same time a charged shot can do 200 to 300
hearty elbow
Yeah as I said, I wouldn't hold my breath about GY. Fist4 is near guaranteed, my guesses about the other balances are to Chaos. Lucifer is a wish list thing but people are actually pretty happy with the aspect, and think it's great. It's mostly the high heat people who naysay it
cunning urchin
"Charged" hammers are all multiplicative except for Charged Shot. You're definitely not beating regular Charged Hammers in single-hit damage unless you're using Sword 4 or maybe Hestia.
@hearty elbow there were many complaints about Rail 4 Special on pad, so I expect there'll be some changes there.
turbid needle
Oh I'm more talking about things like spin and bow
I resent using the bow unless I either get a ton of special upgrades or if I get rapid fire
empty veldt
@hearty elbow what is this hate towards the bow. I know this is subjective and not at all a statistical truth but i swear i see not a lot of people like the bow lol
cunning urchin
Oh. Try Chiron or Hera or Bow 4. They all don't care quite as much about doing Power Shots as Zag bow does.
turbid needle
@empty veldt charge weapon which acts counterproductive to the purpose of a bow, in where it encourages you to practically kiss your opponent to do damage rather than do anything good at a range
also charge based weapons aren't that good
hearty elbow
@hearty elbow what is this hate towards the bow. I know this is subjective and not at all a statistical truth but i swear i see not a lot of people like the bow lol
@empty veldt Don't hate the hate, that's why the buffs were so intense
cunning urchin
The buffs were necessary tbh.
I'm really enjoying the weapon now, though.
Chiron was a lot of fun.
hearty elbow
Buffs were necessary. These were... power forward.
cunning urchin
Ask me for Chiron tips. I'm #1 Chiron player now.
hearty elbow
Lmao
cunning urchin
I really like how they respond to "please buff" feedback with actually making sure the weapon is great now.
empty veldt
Also, Zag power shot is like super fast with dashes
cunning urchin
Instead of just passable.
hearty elbow
Also, re: Chaos, it was one of the most popular aspects before and there was/is a huge backlash for the degree of its nerf
empty veldt
More love for bow
cunning urchin
That's true. But I think they might be fine with it because it was clearly a targeted nerf to diversify builds.
empty veldt
i have the suspicion that new players dont know that power shots are faster with dashes (albeit less damage)
cunning urchin
I imagine they saw even more than we did that most 32 runs were done with Chaos Aspect?
half crater
yeah as someone who played mainly chaos pre nerf, it was the right call on their part
hearty elbow
Yeah that's super unintuitive lol
half crater
now i'm playing other shields finally lol
deft raptor
what gods are usually run with chaos shield?
cunning urchin
I was sad every single time someone was asking for help with 32 and every response was "just use Chaos Aspect".
hearty elbow
And probably another Zag sword rework because they love to do that
half crater
i mean, the advice worked
turbid needle
The great part about games like this is that because it's not a multiplayer game, the developers don't purposefully unbalance the game to cause controversy like Riot and Blizzard do
cunning urchin
And when I tried to be like "use your favorite aspect" or so, they all just ended up using Chaos Aspect.
half crater
oof
hearty elbow
But now "use your favorite aspect" is the objective correct answer
cunning urchin
Well, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. They could have done it with other aspects.
empty veldt
Also, i’m begrudgingly getting better with Beowulf shield. I’m currently running trippy, and i know aphro cast is also good. What other cast is good on beowulf?
half crater
rip other aspects
cunning urchin
But if everone uses Chaos Aspect, then everyone will have done it with Chaos Aspect lol.
hearty elbow
And it's delightful that there is angry very opinionate discourse now when people ask what the best/worst aspects are. That's the sign of a very balanced game.
empty veldt
And yes, very much begrudgingly trying to improve shield gameplay
turbid halo
I did 32 with post-nerf Chaos so I can attest that it's still very strong