@tidal edge oh you still string together the dash and the manually aimed dash-strike in one swoop without any pause inbetween, the slight "cooldown" is just the end lag after performing the dash-strike
#h1-builds-and-combat
mighty ermine
because there's no pause, you have to aim your stick after dashing very quickly in your desired direction
tidal edge
gotcha, so I'll keep practicing my independently aimed dash strikes on skelly then 😅
worldly trellis
fellas I just found a potentially broken interaction
worldly trellis
rush delivery, vicious thrust, hyper sprint
worldly trellis
everytime I dash I get 100% movespeed which translates into attack dmg
mighty ermine
that's the spirit
worldly trellis
so my dash attacks have a 40% to crit and deal a ton of damage
cunning urchin
Nemesis should clear faster on average.
onyx parcel
DEAR LORD this is fun
cunning urchin
So if you use Nemesis to get Titan Blood for Hades Aspect, you'll have both of them faster than if you do it the other way around.
mighty ermine
yet another hades aspect convert 
mighty ermine
yes
but also keep in mind: punishing sweep does not boost the damage of subsequent spins on marked enemies
tidal edge
idk if it's an unpopular opinion but I'm glad punishing sweep doesn't affect its own damage
i think spamming spin would be less fun than the interplay between spin and other attacks that's optimal right now
mighty ermine
i think i ultimately agree
i appreciate how dynamic it is
and not just a one-note spin-dedicated aspect
tidal edge
it do feel very dynamic
desert nacelle
||Pom blossom is affected by the boon which gives 1 more lvl to garnets or not? ||
mighty ermine
@desert nacelle ||if you mean the sweet nectar duo boon, then no, it does not affect pom blossom||
desert nacelle
@mighty ermine thanks
dry ember
Hi @desert nacelle
desert nacelle
@dry ember 
howdy
lyric bloom
those are pomegranates
random light
probs a typo lol
lyric bloom
which is both an IRL fruit, and a part of the greek myth of persephone
random light
garnets, granates
lyric bloom
probably a combo of typo and autocorrect
pomegranates actually look really pretty irl
random light
wait pomegranates are real? i thought they were just a myth, like the Olympian Pantheon or Canada
XD
lyric bloom
excuse me, I'll have you know canada is real, the canada isn't real myth is a coverup to prevent the secret that we're all moose-human hybrids from getting out
desert nacelle
pomegrenades 
tidal edge
pomegranates are the first fruit I've come across and thought "damn I might as well just cook something"
kind of a pain to eat lol
worldly trellis
excuse me, I'll have you know canada is real, the canada isn't real myth is a coverup to prevent the secret that we're all moose-human hybrids from getting out
You're not fooling anyone, mooseman.
lyric bloom
how else would we survive in the frozen wastes?
worldly trellis
reverse psychology wont work on me
random light
idk that one gives me more surprised pikachu vibes
also TIL Dusa is a romanceable character and idk how I feel about that
stable grotto
I got 7 ambrosia
lyric bloom
I see it and see she's pogging, but I guess the lack of a pog before it opens up interpritations
stable grotto
am i good to blow them on titan blood
im hella worried about blowing them then be stuck
lyric bloom
Bouldy isn't though, and that makes everyone sad
random light
am i good to blow them on titan blood
Depends on the weapon
also
you can just set your runs to higher heat for more Ambrosia
random light
or pray that the salesman shade gives you a cool deal for Ambrosia
Just got a perfect hydra fight
@onyx parcel we LOVE to see that
lyric bloom
it's 60 ambrosia to max all companions, plus 20 for each character's final heart I think
so 80 total
tidal edge
how to choose between stygian soul and infernal soul?
random light
I use the one that puts your cast on a cd instead of dropping
stable grotto
how do you unlock the final aspect for weapons
random light
but i think if you wanna use Poseidon Stygius you gotta do drops
how do you unlock the final aspect for weapons
@stable grotto Unlock the not hidden ones and then play the game and certain character interactions will pop up
tidal edge
I've seen both used in speedruns so I'm just curious how people decide
random light
For Spear its Achilles, for Bow its Artemis, I believe Rail is Zeus
proven sierra
you know what
lyric bloom
I think a lot of it is preference
random light
there's a pinned guide in one of these chats
proven sierra
i dont care for the shield Elsyium shades
random light
but beware of spoilers
proven sierra
they are very rude
lyric bloom
preference unless you're going for a specific build I think (i.e. posiedon sword)
lyric bloom
just kill them before they hit you, ez
arthur aspect's slow aura is good against them I think
random light
does the lava in Asphodel not count as trap damage? I swear when I have Heightened Security on, i get absolutely destroyed in like 1.33 seconds as opposed to the uncomfortable trickle of death it normally is
lyric bloom
it counts as magma damage, but is also buffed by heightened security
tidal edge
you love to see flame wheels with hades spear
lyric bloom
so it's buffed by that, but not reduced by the athena boon that reduces trap damage
random light
If I don't have Athena Dash™️ and I'm using Fists, I just die on the inside when I see the mini chariots
tidal edge
I feel like those shield shades suck no matter what you're playing lol
worldly trellis
I melted hades in like a minute
random light
because i'm like wheee haha time to dance with death... and not the hot one either
Which one is Sweet Surrender?
is that the Artemis/Aphro Duo?
that's a fun one
Superb for crit builds
I do love me some crit builds
worldly trellis
Thats just aphro. Weak enemies take more dmg
random light
i'm not biased towards using artemis boons i swear :^)
marsh dawn
What in hell (literally) do I need to make chaos shield feel good? They do such a small amount of damage and don’t ricochet.
worldly trellis
idk I use it to proc doom and stuff but zeus is agreed to be better for it
random light
- you gotta upgrade to like level 4, before that it's kinda bleh
- best to use stuff like Ares special
3) change your mind before starting a run and pick a different weapon
marsh dawn
Bummer. Wish I had stuck with my gut and gone Zeus. Oh well.
random light
fellas i goofed big time
marsh dawn
Except I just got Exclusive access as my third boon.
random light
I'm playing Demeter Fists and I took the hammer that turns your base Attack into the slow, heavy three hit string
rugged oyster
this run was S T U P I D
@worldly trellis that actually looks like so much fun though
onyx parcel
So I bought aspect of hades
To try it out using the give up trick
But I won my first spear run
I had a really bad build lol
Most of my boons weren’t that good
covert hatch
Hey so Zeus on bow special is not ideal right
tidal edge
@onyx parcel nice!
covert hatch
Because it runs into some internal cooldown time or something
tidal edge
guess you can't refund it now lol
tidal edge
did you get any hammers?
tidal edge
ah okay
yeah I think it starts feeling really smooth once chaining dash strikes and spins becomes muscle memory
onyx parcel
Yes
It’s so different when u know how to charge spin with a dash strike
And end the spin with the dash
I had a a lot of fun
tidal edge
yeee
onyx parcel
Now I need a win with bow and gun
My least fav two weapons
Anything I should know for bow?
Vanilla bow, no aspects
hushed ledge
Dash attack
Make sure you're 90%+ on getting power shots
And learn the timing for dash attack power shot mainly, although know it for normal attack
But bow dash attack is crazy good
lyric bloom
zeus's flourish has a 0.2 second cooldown per enemy it hits, which lowers its usefullness on the bow, but by how much I can't really say as I don't like the bow much myself
proven sierra
It's OK to not power shot.
lyric bloom
any comments on zeus flourish with the bow from somebody who uses it more?
hushed ledge
Imo it's not worth encouraging using zag bow special aggressively on bow until someone has the fundies down
And ye, sometimes you don't want to power shot
random light
it does for Chiron I think
lyric bloom
yeah, I mentioned that but I wanted like a specific mention of how much that hurts the combo
random light
Oh wait never mind
random light
I was using Posideon/Zeus Duo that's why it worked for me whoops
onyx parcel
Effect powers shot timing?
onyx parcel
So should I not get them or what
onyx parcel
Ok thanks
random light
if you time properly
onyx parcel
Hammer upgrades?
random light
what aspect
onyx parcel
Good hammers for vanilla bow?
random light
oh
lyric bloom
charged special is one I like
hushed ledge
Most of them are decent ngl
lyric bloom
point blank shots don't need to worry about the reduced range on tap firing
and when you actually want to use it for crowd clearing, a fully charged special won't take too long
random light
Piercing Volley and Chain Shot are pretty useful
lyric bloom
if you're heavy on point blank shots too, there's on that gives +4 shots per volley
onyx parcel
Worth it to take Artemis dash over Athena dash?
random light
nope
onyx parcel
For the dash strike?
random light
Always take Athena Dash
always always always
unless you're using sword
then Artemis Dash could be worth
sometimes
proven sierra
I don't agree "always always always," but for the bow, I agree
onyx parcel
Athena dash kinda saved my last run I ain’t even gonna lie
lyric bloom
don't get hit /s
onyx parcel
Noted
random light
For basic attack Artemis, Athena Dash, try to get Pressure Points from Artemis as well, personally I love the Aphro/Artemis Duo, if that's something you wanna do, go for Aphro special then pray you get the Duo
thick raptor
Any specific opinions on Greater vs. Ruthless reflex?
random light
Aphrodite damage modifiers tend to be high anyways so you might want Aphro special regardless
onyx parcel
Should I just take Artemis keepsake at the start
random light
yes
onyx parcel
To force an Artemis attack
random light
You might get unlucky
proven sierra
Pressure Points + max Zag aspect for bow + Artemis attack or special = very good
random light
but if you do
mighty ermine
@onyx parcel it wasn't mentioned earlier so i want to point out that twin shot is one of bow's best hammers in general, other than maybe for chiron
but even then it would be great
onyx parcel
Ok noted thanks
random light
just Give Up, switch to a different trinket, and shoot for Artemis later in the run
mellow sierra
what weapons you guys max up first 🙂
onyx parcel
So how does the give up thing in this game actually work? If I give up and go into another run, do I get the same list of 3 boons?
Why does starting another run not refresh the RNG?
onyx parcel
Wow
random light
you can force a different starting boon by switching trinket
BUT
the offered boons will be the same type
onyx parcel
what weapons you guys max up first 🙂
@mellow sierra I like to upgrade the ones I like at the same time
random light
so if you get Artemis Dash, Artemis cast, and Artemis special and you Give Up and take Aphro trinket, it will offer Dash, Cast, Special
random light
or at least that's been my experience
onyx parcel
Didn’t know that
desert nacelle
I've maxed guan Yu 
random light
i don't know if that's 100% accurate tbh
onyx parcel
I never payed attention but that sounds about right
I’ll go for bow and gun win tm
Hopefully I can get both of em
proven sierra
Not only is that right, I think, PlzNoBulli
onyx parcel
But the chances are not too high
onyx parcel
I’ve played 1 run with bow and 1 run with gun before
random light
I maxed Nemesis, Guan Yu, Chaos, Chiron/Rama, Demeter, and Zag Rail
proven sierra
You will get common, common, rare
onyx parcel
LOL
tidal edge
when I just started the game I assumed everyone used bow as a special shotgun, it seemed so broken lol
random light
yeah so the RNG is set in stone
onyx parcel
You will get common, common, rare
@proven sierra that’s weird I’ve never played a roguelike that function like this
random light
well it's to avoid reload abuse
empty veldt
what boons work well with talos?
random light
Athena Dash™️
marsh dawn
Lmfao just did Astereus and Theseus EM3 with nothing but dash and call. Took zero hits. Freaking broken
random light
Artemis is my favorite, hands down, partially because I'm a sucker for the crit builds and partially because Pressure Points and Support Fire are pure pogchamp material
proven sierra
PP + SF + a fast-attack weapon like the fists or rail = my favorite
random light
FACTS THOUGH
random light
And if you get the Aphrodite/Artemis Duo that gives you +50% critical strike damage against Weak and the Aphro boon that gives another +%damage against weak it's just 
desert nacelle
Athena's Call 
onyx parcel
Athena call is... cute
desert nacelle
Make it epic and 10 lvl and bunker down
random light
I prefer Aphrodite and Artemis Calls, simply because they do D U M M I D A M A G E
but Athena's is also good
just stand in their face and don't care
I have the shield
hushed ledge
Dio call is dumb damage as well iirc
random light
Yep at max gauge its 2500
hushed ledge
The real gamer move is dodging an attack with Dio call tbh
Nah, Dio call you just use on cd
random light
really? I always save for max
lyric bloom
Dionysis call is 20 damage/stack at minimum or something like that
lyric bloom
for bosses you don't really get much out of the extra duration I think
fervent mural
Isn't aphro the big damage call?
hushed ledge
Ares and Pos and Athena I also throw out lots
desert nacelle
Rupture, Doom, Jolted are also statuses right?
random light
I kept thinking it was Aphrodite cuz like its sorta pronounced "aphrodiotee"
proven sierra
Zeus/Ares/Pos calls benefit significantly from other boons
random light
i got big time brain damage darn
bro this whole time I kept thinking Dio stood for Aphrodite because i absolutely forgot Dionysus was in the game.... whoops
hushed ledge
Ares/pos/Athena calls are all basically the same utility wise for me
lyric bloom
some calls get duo bonuses, don't they?
hushed ledge
All have the same function of "get out here 100% safely"
lyric bloom
or am I thinking of regular boons
onyx parcel
I think so
random light
My personal Call list goes Artemis -> Aphro -> Athena for top three
proven sierra
yes - Zeus/Posedion duo Poseidon clal
there's no point in a "no bonuses" call tier list imo
random light
Well that's a Duo boon that affects a call
proven sierra
b/c it's so important
fervent mural
Like zeus call gets extremely buffed by other zeus boona
hushed ledge
Tbh most calls I like enough to just take
lyric bloom
well Dio call at least can benefit from any hangover duos
like ares/dio and aphro/dio
random light
better to have any call than have no call
hushed ledge
Dio call is just good alone
lyric bloom
I was responding to no duos calls, not just on its own but yeah
it can deal massive damage
onyx parcel
Which call has the highest raw damage?
hushed ledge
Like it actively anti-synergises with other hangover iirc
lyric bloom
probably dio
barren grail
Just finished up a run with Excalibur arty / demeter build. Hitting for 1k+ while things aren't able to move was very satisfying lmao
hushed ledge
I think they're all the same rate but some have more charges
lyric bloom
I swear some have four segments and others have five
hushed ledge
Art has 5 charges
hushed ledge
Although funnily enough she's the one you generally want to save for cap the most
random light
I think if you're looking to just drop a ridiculous amount of damage in one go Aphrodite or Artemis are your best bets for Call, if you're ok with DoT then Dionysus is your man probs
hushed ledge
Dem call is decent as well if you're having trouble in ely
Throw it out to get a bunch of time to just not worry about dodging
onyx parcel
I think if you're looking to just drop a ridiculous amount of damage in one go Aphrodite or Artemis are your best bets for Call, if you're ok with DoT then Dionysus is your man probs
@random light I don’t see a difference between burst damage and dot on call
You’re dealing the same amount of damage eventually anyways
bright flint
dot takes time to kill, and in that time you could be killed
random light
I mean on a boss, I'd prefer to get a single big instance, it's easier to avoid wasting damage on a phase change and execute a boss and avoid taking further hits that way
lyric bloom
dem call can be really good if you have the right supporting boons I think
not absurdly good, but still quite good
random light
There is no bad call
lyric bloom
the 10 then burst is one I like with it, but decay can also probably be good
hushed ledge
The baseline for calls is that you get like 5f invuln
Dem call is much more a room clear call than a boss one
bright flint
speaking of dot, they do not crit right?
hushed ledge
Allows you to get a load of damage in and buys enough time to reposition to damage down a priority target, all for 1 notch
bright flint
also do things like ares curse, zeus lightning crit?
marsh dawn
So. Poseidon dash + Dio call. I have never done bosses 3 and 4 without taking any damage. And never have I killed boss 4 so quickly. I had no idea the build was so good
Dio call is the highest damage lesser call right?
mighty ermine
@bright flint they can crit only if you get the pressure points boon
which allows any (in reality not completely any) damage source to crit
bright flint
even dot?
random light
Pressure Points applies to almost any instance of damage you do
I think the only exceptions are like, companions
mighty ermine
there are some niche cases where it isn't affected, like summons or explosive return
proven sierra
less-rare versions of the same boons
random light
But yes, it includes DoT and things like Zeus Zappy or Ares Doom
bright flint
gotcha
onyx iron
pressure points is what can send certain builds into the stratosphere
random light
Oh man, maxed out Demeter Fists with Artemis Special and that Hammer that makes the Special a double kick is just 
That 7 hit special becomes a 14 hit special and when it all crits ooooooooooooooh
proven sierra
how is it that in the ~~~10 times i've run aspect of hera on the bow
i've only gotten Exit Wounds once
random light
Not enough blood sacrifices to RNGesus
random light
I got it to 9% just now
mighty ermine
pre-nerf i think i got around 15 or 16%
onyx iron
7% for me, but even then
random light
10% on Pressure Points is ridiculous, especially if you're using Bow or Rail
onyx iron
like someone mentioned though, it's every instance of dmg
proven sierra
whelp, got to styx and ended up with just 1 of the 2 requirements for arty's legendary, so that's impossible now
hope i can still get exit wounds................
mighty ermine
yeah, it only gets even better when you have more sources of damage to work with i.e. support fire, bolts, etc
onyx iron
ye, though it's especially satisfying when you have something slow but high damage, like doom or rail and you see 2000+ flash on the screen
proven sierra
thank god i got exit wounds
mighty ermine
yeah, i just mean boons that add another source like doom as you said, rather than just +%, where it's still honestly good anyways because of crit scaling
sacred glade
shield tips for chaos aspect?
proven sierra
all i want is a theoretically perfect build and synergy is that so much to ask
upgrade chaos to at least +4
it is meh before that
sacred glade
Mehe still will use lol
fervent mural
Well all aspects are meh before +4
lyric bloom
^ there's a lot of aspects that are just bad before upgrades
mighty ermine
doom and thunder flourish are both solid choices for your special on chaos
sacred glade
Think I got it to 3
proven sierra
The multi-shields don't proc at close range
DOOM is great
thunder flourish is good
lyric bloom
Arthur is pretty alright before +4 I think, but outside that they're not incredible
though, for me arther's main draw is the 200 damage 3 hit combo, not the damage resist aura
mighty ermine
hera is mostly fine without any upgrades
sacred glade
first hiddel aspect I can unlock is guan tu
onyx iron
the shields also fire out in a cone in front of you now
mighty ermine
especially with casts that don't lodge i.e. trippy shot
mighty ermine
infernal soul is generally better for hera unless you can manage to get even one extra cast for stygian
which then tips in stygian's favor
onyx iron
stygian foreva
proven sierra
im team stygian
onyx iron
can't count the amount of times I've lost bloodstones
mighty ermine
lol
proven sierra
and i want exit wounds (rip my luck) and i want the poseidon duo (rip my luck) and IDEALLY i want the hermes "they fall out fast" boon
proven sierra
hera bow
desert nacelle
I guess i will gave up on making zeus builds
proven sierra
Double Strike + High Voltage = your build is good now
desert nacelle
From 15 attempts i got double strike only once
proven sierra
especially if you get Static Discharge (jolted) and more than one lightning bolt effect (IE both lightning dodges and/or heaven's vengeance)
desert nacelle
with rerrols
proven sierra
woof
onyx iron
tbh, you have to get jolted
mighty ermine
yeah, static discharge and double strike are the T2s you really want with zeus
proven sierra
i was sleeping on jolted for a while
onyx iron
if you'r eusing zeus ona primary
proven sierra
but it's so good
lyric bloom
jolted is extra good with the demeter duo
onyx iron
yisss
mighty ermine
high voltage is okay. mostly just a path towards splitting bolt if you can't get double strike
proven sierra
i ran this yesterday https://www.reddit.com/r/HadesTheGame/comments/izq1ji/pom_blossom_is_awesome/
desert nacelle
I know that zeus is good and i know what to do with it
i just have no luck with it at all
onyx iron
one of the runs, you'll get it
desert nacelle
Special poseidon and attack zeus?
onyx iron
I had the same luck gunning for hunting blades for 15 runs lol
proven sierra
You want poseidon's special or attack
then that zeus duo makes each poseidon move proc a lightning bolt
(which benefits from jolted, high voltage, double strike, etc.)
onyx iron
you can rub those prerequisites all you want, sometimes rng just hates you
bright merlin
I can never seem to get enough crit
onyx iron
except for when it doesn't proc enough
desert nacelle
wont forget this
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/712528599260856355/713258094326448168/unknown.png
onyx iron
noice
meanwhile, on final boss with crit rail, I swear I only critted 10 times the whole fight
and lost :(
lyric bloom
I still run the mirror upgrade that makes first hits extra strong, but I'm sure that back attacks are much more optimal for high tier play
bright merlin
I haven't gotten a really good rail run yet
lyric bloom
rail is really good imo
onyx iron
best with the gun for me has been using the special in various ways
but with hammers ofc
other than that, it's always been dot ares or dionysus
desert nacelle
i did it once
onyx iron
yea, I heard about that on someone's stream
jawlesspaul mebbe?
he didn't get it, but yea, revenge boons plus ares/zeus duo
proven sierra
i once had...
onyx iron
kill final boss without moving
magic dagger
haelian did it twice
one of those runs had a full afk final boss fight
random light
ugh it's such a good feeling to punch Lernie in the face and drop a Demeter Fist crit special on him, literally took three of those to finish that fight with Extreme Measures not counting the hits on the other heads when he's invulnerable
Demeter Fist just really satisfying to use
bright merlin
once I lose the massive streak I have I'm gonna be using some other weapons
onyx iron
ares/athena duo plus the new fists is pretty gnarly
bright merlin
the shield is just so good
random light
What is the Ares/Athena Duo?
magic dagger
merciful end
random light
I always go for the Aphrodite/Artemis Duo for Fists
onyx iron
merciful end
bright merlin
Doom triggers on deflect boons
random light
bruuuuuuuh
magic dagger
moves with deflect proc doom effects instantly
onyx iron
ye, so ares on fist attack + athena dash
bright merlin
as in, it triggers the damage
random light
b r u h
onyx iron
the new fist give rapid dash
random light
b r u h
r
u
h
bright merlin
I've found it good especially on blitz disc
proven sierra
new fist + a good dash ability (ares, zeus) + hermes +3 dashes = o. m. g.
onyx iron
yissss
every time I've run with them, hermes has been so kind
and given me extra dashes
proven sierra
i haven't gotten it yet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
onyx iron
usually he's a ponce and never gives me extra dashes :(
proven sierra
i have gotten it + a fully-upgraded ares, and it + a fully upgraded zeus
but never extra dashes
bright flint
new fist dash is bugged I think
or if that's the way it works then it's super weird
when you use dash once it dash twice
onyx iron
I think it's intended for you to hold down dash
hushed ledge
It dashes again immediately at the end of a dash if you still have dash held down
hushed ledge
If you want to single dash, just be faster
bright flint
still weird imo
onyx iron
I actually barely use the special ability tbh
bright flint
messed me up a lot
onyx iron
even tho one of the hammers is gunned for it
bright merlin
im so reluctant to spend my titans blood on another weapon
proven sierra
tfw youre playing w/ a new build and you mess up in the first 10 seconds of an erberus chamber......................................................................
onyx iron
I almost never take erebus chambers for that reason
so much strife lol
ESPECIALLY with the benefits heat
because always a witch shows up with +speed
onyx iron
it is true
proven sierra
running rail, pick for me discord
bright merlin
aspect?
onyx iron
or early, a double heart goes a long way
proven sierra
eris.
bright merlin
the best one
proven sierra
do i: take demeter bonus to attack and go full cold
OR
pull for poseidon and go supersoaker
(and take a worse demeter now)
onyx iron
take the atk
easily stacking chill is nice
are you trying to get privileged status going?
proven sierra
i WANT to go supersoaker but i think youre right
no, im doing
the other one
curse
foresight?
proven sierra
no the +40% if two curses one
proven sierra
oh
onyx iron
I don't mess with me mirror much
crimson patrol
the 5% each god is good too
you not forced to get curse
usually you get at least 4 gods
it is 20% all the time
onyx iron
ye
it also unbridles you from that mindset of getting curses going
_> I still haven't tried it except a few runs
crimson patrol
it isn't that hard but you have to keep it in mind and usually it comes at end games
weaken, chill, hangover
proven sierra
weaken, chill, hangover, jolted, doom, rupture.......
onyx iron
rly to me though, curses are good, and generally getting it going isn't so hard, maybe because I'm so used to gunning fo rit
crimson patrol
lightning is hard, doom is very short and water is rare
onyx iron
and 40% is much more than what is achievable with the alternative
proven sierra
tmw when you try to fight a secret boss at the earliest moment possible
and you get wrecked
onyx iron
because you should be getting curses going regardless
because the curses themselves provide extra dmg
usually
crimson patrol
it still conditional
consistent throughout the game are like superior considering it wouldnt have much different
4 gods are super easy to get in any runs even in early
then you can have even more
proven sierra
keep in mind chaos doesn't count
onyx iron
still, it's a good point
mighty ermine
they aren't an olympian, so it makes sense too
FF's description makes a point to refer to those that contribute as olympians
onyx iron
because that + dmg is applying on any given first hit as well
as opposed to gettin curses going
I haven't tried it enough myself though
because on paper, it doesn't match up
but
yknow, certain builds or runs
crimson patrol
does the boiling blood stack the more red crystal on the enemy
i am wondering that
mighty ermine
yeah, it's just a binary condition
crimson patrol
that fair enough
onyx iron
one thing to note about boiling blood too is that, unlike priv status/family favorite that we were discussing before, the dmg boost only applies to your atk and special base damage
that might be the nerdiest sentence I've ever written
onyx iron
lol
proven sierra
omg artemis Excalibur attack + Dionysus special/dash + Splitting Headache = SUCH HIGH CRIT RATE
now i just need to get me that sweet, sweet Pressure Points
upper salmon
marsh dawn
If I have heightened security on (+400%) trap damage, and I get the -90% trap damage boon from Athena... are traps doing 410% or are they doing 50%?
random light
I would assume they're doing +310% so 410% sounds correct
the +% and -% stack additive, if i remember properly
so the modifiers all sum up and then apply
marsh dawn
Yikes. I don’t think I want this pact since I hit those vases in redacted usually once or twice.
random light
Yeah the vases and the traps in Styx on Heightened Security are pretty much all death sentences
those falling axes in Styx hit for legit 150 with that Pact
marsh dawn
I’ll just go for a comfy +20% enemy hp.
proven sierra
ahhh ok advice needed
magic dagger
dont' do it if you value your life
random light
Honestly the bonus trap damage one isn't that bad
proven sierra
Excalibur. Artemis attack. Dio special+dash. Pressure points @ 3%.
marsh dawn
Styx is unavoidable
proven sierra
HAMMER: do I get Greater Consecration (increased aura) OR Double Nova (special hits twice aka two stacks of hangover)?
marsh dawn
Double nova imo
proven sierra
i almost always go greater consecration
magic dagger
what's the other option?
proven sierra
but
random light
Honestly you probably should have gone for a raw damage special
steady lintel
pretty new and wondering if there are up-to-date ratings/guides on general weapon power levels i can find anywhere?
hope that's not an annoying question
marsh dawn
If you’re running Dio special, I’d go double nova.
random light
Might be something in pinned messages
torpid abyss
So, who feels like having in-depth talk regarding Hades gameplay and design?
I feel like having some nice game talk™️
magic dagger
aHaahahaaha
double nova
but actually piercing wave
random light
Double Nova sounds like a better use of a Hammer regardless in this instance
magic dagger
pretty new and wondering if there are up-to-date ratings/guides on general weapon power levels i can find anywhere?
@steady lintel no, not really
random light
So, who feels like having in-depth talk regarding Hades gameplay and design?
@torpid abyss I can only pet one Cerberus head 0/10 game, gonna ask for refund soon tbhignore my 100 hour playtime, details not important
magic dagger
100 hours isn't a lot
torpid abyss
I mean unironically game talk
As in
You know
How's the design philosophy and the gameplay loop and stuff
Breaking down the game in a technical sense
marsh dawn
100 hours is a lot for some people and that’s okay.
random light
The design philosophy is pretty straightforward, it's a roguelite about a god with god power
so big flashy god powers that change around
torpid abyss
Idk why people call it an RPG though...
proven sierra
I think he's talking more on a technical level
random light
i mean you play the role of zagreus
torpid abyss
Anyways
marsh dawn
It has quests
random light
you "level up" and get permanently stronger
proven sierra
as in, the design philosophy of.... How strong are permanent upgrades? How often do you get them? Are they OK with OP builds? etc.
marsh dawn
Relationships
torpid abyss
You can say that about literally every videogame you play as X character
That's a dating sim
Or visual novel
random light
lots of RPGs these days are dating sims cough fire emblem
torpid abyss
Anyways let's get those out of the way
proven sierra
i heard a lot of people describe Pyre as sports game + dating sim
torpid abyss
I mean the big parts
marsh dawn
I’d argue many visual novels are rpgs as well.
torpid abyss
As in, the core aspects
torpid abyss
It's a rogue like hack and slash
And it has some quite clear intentions to appeal to as many sorts of players as possible, from my point of view
torpid abyss
The high variety alone of gameplay styles the game allows is just the surface
random light
times four unique aspects each
torpid abyss
You see
proven sierra
Net.Ray: when you ask people what their favorite to least favorite weapons area
random light
24 different playstyles not counting boon combos and hammers
proven sierra
in my experience
the orders you get may as well be random
which is a VERY GOOD sign imo
torpid abyss
Yeah that's the point
random light
has there been any kind of poll?
torpid abyss
Each weapon isn't made to be used to 100% the game or something
Each weapon is made to fit X player
And from there, the aspects
marsh dawn
I love all my weapons equally.
I don’t care for sword...
torpid abyss
Even the 4th aspects are niche given the right player
Say, i'm sure someone prefers Achilles aspect to Guan Yu
random light
I love all my weapons equally.
I don’t care for sword...
@marsh dawn same but for me it's shield I can't stand. I use literally every weapon EXCEPT shield
steady lintel
I was thinking more just I'm new and learning and I don't want to blow titan's blood on upgrades that kinda suck until I have some to spare
random light
i did Shield once for the "complete escapes with all weapons" achievment
steady lintel
especially in upgrading spear so i can unlock the 4th aspects of my other weapons
proven sierra
i hope you appreciate my reactions to your post @marsh dawn
torpid abyss
I like how even the biggest aspects aren't just "be objectively better"
marsh dawn
Lmao
torpid abyss
But then again
I have some nit picks here and there
Personally, as a gamer, i enjoy hard experiences
random light
Not all Aspects are made equal though
torpid abyss
But i always disliked "don't get hit" challenges
random light
some definitely struggle in comparison
marsh dawn
@steady lintel The hidden aspect for spear does not require any investment into spear. Pick the weapons you like the most and unlock a few to try.
random light
The only real "don't get hit" challenge is in Erebus
steady lintel
Don't you need to put 5 blood into spear before you can unlock the others?
marsh dawn
No
steady lintel
oh i guess not
random light
outside that it's just your standard HP bar fare of "don't go to 0 HP"
steady lintel
weird i totally misread that one
proven sierra
average hit of 700dmg
steady lintel
rad
torpid abyss
Yeah perhaps
random light
hangover Excalibur
not words I expected to hear but I'm glad it worked out
torpid abyss
It's just a personal disdain i have
proven sierra
we'll see, i'm running Extreme(r) Measures
marsh dawn
@steady lintel the Zag aspects also don’t count as “unlocks”
random light
Do you like games like Hotline Miami or Katana Zero
torpid abyss
I simply hate games that boil down to "you're gonna regret every single hit you take"
random light
where you're basically at 1 HP all the time
steady lintel
@marsh dawn got it. thanks!
random light
but it's the same concept, "just don't get hit XD"
torpid abyss
My issue comes from games that give you an HP bar, yet for some mysterious reason refuse to let you take hits
random light
I mean the damage amounts in Hades are pretty forgiving unless you pump them up with Pacts
the only boss who has strong base damage is the final boss
marsh dawn
Theseus spear hits for 24 both directions. Can be pretty spicy.
torpid abyss
I liked Hotline Miami 1 and 2 due to the plenty of different ways to play the game, as well as having a "learn on the go" system
But anyhow
random light
just use Athena Dash™️
torpid abyss
It's a reason i disliked Dead Cells
random light
"when in doubt, Athena Dash out"
torpid abyss
The whole point of its harder modes, is that you can't get hit
torpid abyss
The combat mechanics themselves are fine at best for me
marsh dawn
It’s much more difficult to add difficulty through AI changes and mechanics.
hexed leaf
Do you fellas like the aspect of ||Lucifer|| ?
random light
maybe it's because for 2D platformer type games, I greatly prefer mechanics like, say, the Megaman Zero series or Hollow Knight
torpid abyss
For me, difficulty shouldn't be "you are not allowed to make mistakes because WE say so"
random light
Roguelikes are better served in not 2D imo
torpid abyss
It's essentially the same as school, you know?
They grade you in real time and then you repeat because you slipped up
mighty ermine
kinda off-topic but i had the same beef with dead cells BC difficulties. it becomes don't ever get hit the game
random light
Going to college is just enabling the Extreme Measures clause irl
mighty ermine
wasn't a fan of it
torpid abyss
Honestly that single thing ruined the game for me
marsh dawn
I wanted to love Hollow Knight. Turns out I’m garbage at the combat system it has.
proven sierra
you just need more practice flyinx!
torpid abyss
It isn't a metroidvania in any form or way
random light
they actually tried to pawn it off as a metroidvania?
proven sierra
my girlfriend (who has never beaten a game before) thought the same as you
and she beat it!
torpid abyss
Like, even the one weapon based on Castlevania just...
random light
imagine trying to make a Metroidvania after Hollow Knight massacred all the competition
marsh dawn
@proven sierra it’s on my list to go back to. I will when we get silk song info as I’d like to play them close together.
torpid abyss
I didn't beat Hollow Knight because i didn't enjoy it
As someone who loved Resident Evil, the exploration and backtracking of HK just weren't fun
random light
Hollow Knight is easily one of my favorite games ever, it's up there with like Megaman Zero 3, Devil May Cry 3, Divinity 2, etc.
proven sierra
i am so sure my game is bugged out and im not getting the benefits of rare/epic boosts to my boons anymore
this is my 100th escape attempt
torpid abyss
Half of the games you just said are in my "meh" list, pal
random light
really really really unlucky
proven sierra
maybe........
random light
Half of the games you just said are in my "meh" list, pal
@torpid abyss ;-;
proven sierra
but i had just been messing with the mirror!
marsh dawn
Just realized this is the combat channel and not the discussion channel.
random light
hey man we can't all have good taste i'm kidding
torpid abyss
Like, in DoS2 levelling feels extremely problematic
random light
Oh i won't deny leveling in Divinity 2 is painful
I have aneurysms going through Driftwood
I just love being lizard wizard
torpid abyss
It isn't unusual for people to mistake lack of QoL for difficulty either
random light
ah yes the Nintendo Design Principle
rare kayak
proven sierra
i just did 1700 to asterius' FACE with excalibur
random light
"make it tedious and it'll seem like a challenging game"
proven sierra
imagine if he had been turned around.......
random light
Does anyone actually take Fiery Presence over Shadow Presence?
torpid abyss
For real though, back to Hades talk
random light
like why would you
torpid abyss
I like some parts and dislike some
Like, say
Minifishing just doesn't sit well with me
torpid abyss
It's one of those things i feel is better... out of the game
It combines my 2 most hated things ever
random light
i'm not one to comment on fishing minigames, because i don't care for fishing minigames period
torpid abyss
Slot machines and QTEs
wheat wadi
I thought the whole relationship system is this game was weird and out of place
random light
hey there are some good QTEs
mighty ermine
i remember the last time i saw you around here netray you were complaining about fishing then lol
wheat wadi
I mean it's cool I just didn't expect it
torpid abyss
The only good QTE is one that requires mashing and is activated BY the player
marsh dawn
Y’all disliking some of my favorite parts of the game.
plain drift
You should still try cuz you can get a diamond from fishes
random light
Fly I just hate fishing in video games
if I wanted to sit and fish I'd do it irl with the Lads™️
torpid abyss
My issue is
marsh dawn
I respect that. Just don’t take it away from me.
torpid abyss
I have severe anxiety and the whole thing Hades' fishing has
LEGITIMATELY worsens my already set issues
Not kidding or exaggerating
magic dagger
then don't fish
random light
..... don't fish
magic dagger
easy solution
wheat wadi
Hades fishing isn't hard at least. You ever fish in stardew valley? Stressful
torpid abyss
Can't we just
random light
you're not required to in the slightest to fish in this game, it's totally optional
torpid abyss
have Club Penguin fishing
marsh dawn
I’m gonna be honest, it sounds like you need to see a professional for anxiety care if fishing in this game is a trigger.
random light
on that third swing
@median oar broski that third swing does, what, 200 base damage
it better have a windup
torpid abyss
It's going better for now
random light
or else it'd be best in slot ez pz
median oar
lol yeah fair enough
torpid abyss
But thanks for being considerate, means a lot
magic dagger
you can dash during the charge-up time of that swing btw
marsh dawn
Just looking out.
median oar
by accident
torpid abyss
Anyways
Hades is cool and all
But i kinda can't get people who say a game is perfect
Not trying to be mean
marsh dawn
No game is perfect.
torpid abyss
I'm just too into game design to ever call a game perfect
marsh dawn
Maybe Tetris.
torpid abyss
I was taught right away
random light
Kirby games are perfect
torpid abyss
A game isn't finished
torpid abyss
You simply decide when you stop working on it
proven sierra
extremer measures, 0 defiance
random light
but all other Kirby games are peak design
marsh dawn
Air Ride is a core memory growing up.
mighty ermine
lmfao
random light
A I R R I D E
marsh dawn
@proven sierra you got this.
wheat wadi
but all other Kirby games are peak design
@random light
I can't agree with this. I've fought whispy woods too many damn times in too many games
upbeat ridge
the multiplayer servers work better than smash for some reason
mighty ermine
y'all it's getting a little off topic here and #video-games is for exactly this
marsh dawn
We had good intentions.
royal meadow
is fist a good weapon ?
marsh dawn
All weapons are good
mighty ermine
yes
random light
@random light
I can't agree with this. I've fought whispy woods too many damn times in too many games
@wheat wadi didn't you know, Kirby is a metaphor for capitalism. The repeated defeat of Whispy Woods serves as a metaphor for the inevitable destruction of nature based on mankind's greed and hubris. In this essay, I will....
royal meadow
which aspect should i focus on fist. i am stuck between spear achiles and fist (dk which aspect)
wheat wadi
I WOULD READ THIS ESSAY
marsh dawn
Fist benefits from boons that take advantage of fast attacks. Like Zeus or Artemis.
I prefer Talos fist, but Demeter is very strong.
wheat wadi
Default fist has dodge chance you could upgrade which comes in hand
royal meadow
dodge is not good ?
mighty ermine
talos has a CC focus, demeter is more burst-centric, zag is flexible and baseline
upbeat ridge
dodge is good
marsh dawn
Dodge is good
mighty ermine
really just choose what interests you
marsh dawn
I just like to pull my enemies to me from across the screen
royal meadow
LOL
upbeat ridge
yea just like the hermes boon it has a chance of nullifying damage
random light
I WOULD READ THIS ESSAY
@wheat wadi The essay exists, it's called Brian David Gilbert's Unraveled episode on Kirby XDDD
wheat wadi
I ran high heat with default fist and plume. I dodged like every other hit
mighty ermine
talos with poseidon special is an old classic: the yank n yeet
upbeat ridge
lol
marsh dawn
I like Aphro on special. Or Demeter. It’s juicy
wheat wadi
I had no idea he had a video on kirby, will check it out lol
random light
talos with poseidon special is an old classic: the yank n yeet
@mighty ermine Talos is really fun against those Medusa enemies, because normally they run suuuuuuper far away and it's like no come here and get punched
upbeat ridge
i actually ran poseidon on fist special for CC
marsh dawn
Pair in the landing damage wave and baby you got a build going
mighty ermine
lol true
wait does quake cutter's wave come out faster on talos' special than the other conventional uppers?
mighty ermine
i just play demeter too much to really know, and i never take quake cutter
because it's not great on dem
marsh dawn
Tartarus? Pull every enemy. Asphodel? Can’t bomb me if I have Athena special. Elysium? Can’t revive if you can’t escape. Styx? Rats can’t survive the pull or the wave.
tidal edge
I just tried a vicious skewer build with hades spear but my damage felt super low
is exploding launcher the only special hammer worth getting lol
mighty ermine
yeah, unfortunately just disappointing compared to exploding launcher
tidal edge
should I just build around attack unless I see exploding launcher?
mighty ermine
definitely
marsh dawn
Yeah, probably.
tidal edge
word word
marsh dawn
Building for spin is huge.
upbeat ridge
for sure
mighty ermine
the special on hades is mostly a waste of time unless you net exploding
onyx parcel
@dry ember u there?
tidal edge
makes sense
marsh dawn
You can get big damage on the spin and wipe the whole room.
onyx parcel
Especially with massive spin
upbeat ridge
massive spin is amazing
marsh dawn
Indeed
tidal edge
do you use the basic attack at all if you don't get serrated point, or still spam dash attack?
mighty ermine
spin hammers are alright with hades, but its strength lies in the punishing sweep followups
random light
How to build guanyu spear??
@brittle wind a r t e m i s
honestly as long as you get Rapid Spin GY is pretty flexible
marsh dawn
I play hades with spin and dash attack.
mighty ermine
@tidal edge standard combo if you don't get serrated
upbeat ridge
i usually put a debuff on my attack
random light
GY with Athena attack and Rapid Spin is nice because you get this huge deflect spin thing flying around
upbeat ridge
jesus i never thought about that
brittle wind
hades hit me for 48 damage with his spiral attack... it outright kills me in one hit if i use guanyu spear lol
mighty ermine
have you invested blood into it?
marsh dawn
48 health going into redacted is a bad move.
brittle wind
i see... need tons of blood to upgrade then
random light
Or if you're worried about getting one shot, stick to Thick Skin
mighty ermine
unupgraded GY can be a death sentence, yeah
brittle wind
high confidence?? is that gonna make my hp go like 20?? lol
random light
do you have the House contract that lets you gain max HP when you take darkness
brittle wind
i do
random light
high confidence?? is that gonna make my hp go like 20?? lol
@brittle wind ...... maybe
upbeat ridge
what kind of keepsakes do u use
brittle wind
i gets 1 hp every darkness
random light
For Guan Yu?
marsh dawn
I think you get 3 at max GY
brittle wind
yeah
random light
Actually GY is the only weapon I take Thanatos trinket for
upbeat ridge
ahh dang do you not get hit often?
random light
I cross my fingers for Athena Attack and the ever so useful Athena Dash, snag pressure points and Rapid Spin and go to town
brittle wind
okay