oh, nvm, you meant average
#h1-builds-and-combat
hearty elbow
neon garnet
Is there any consensus on which mirror of night perks are most useful?
void fjord
it depends on how u run
hearty elbow
No, because there isn't an objective answer to that question
void fjord
ye
unkempt pagoda
player preference, mostly
neon garnet
okay understood just im reluctant to try new ones as im comfortable 😂
unkempt pagoda
there’s nothing wrong with experimentation
cunning urchin
I see.
hearty elbow
:3 Game is all about trying stuff out
unkempt pagoda
the worst that happens is that you end up at the house again
cunning urchin
In that case, the obvious solution is to flip all your mirror talents.
All of them.
hearty elbow
For that tasty Blood prophecy (10 iirc?)
void fjord
lol for the prophecy i did just that
cunning urchin
And just think of it as a learning experience, something different for a change, to go beyond your comfort zone.
Do some runs like that, and you'll be more comfortable with those talents, too.
neon garnet
yeah i will probably do that just didnt know if there were any that were perticularly strong
but i guess its all pretty similar so ill just fiddle
void fjord
whats ur guys preferred dash? greater reflex or ruthless
cunning urchin
Greater Reflex 100%.
hearty elbow
Ruthless is nifty on Gilgamesh.
untold quiver
I can second that...I started changing out damage boons for utility, and I'm getting past stuff I didn't before
void fjord
hmm
turbid needle
i dunno what to invest in
cunning urchin
I can i-frame Hades's spin attack 100% of the time with 2 dashes if I actually pay attention.
turbid needle
aspect of talos or demeter? max out chaos shield or chiron bow? so many questions, so little blood .-.
void fjord
well my name gives u the answer
unkempt pagoda
i can see ruthless having some purpose on some weapons, like maybe eris
cunning urchin
aspect of talos or demeter?
Yes.
turbid needle
lol
gray moon
lol. I prefer Demeter
unkempt pagoda
personally i prefer demeter but i’ve heard talos is great
turbid needle
demeter seems nifty but it costs SO MUCH BLOOD .-,
untold quiver
I like Demeter more, but I'm not great at using Talos to its full effect
unkempt pagoda
honestly i need to do more runs with non-demeter fists
gray moon
btw, is Fists Zag aspect straight up trash now?
unkempt pagoda
not really, it’s practically the same as it were before
cunning urchin
Not trash, no.
unkempt pagoda
now you don’t have that quick first punch
untold quiver
It's actually pretty much the same thing the speed boost was only the first punch
gray moon
i wonder why they didn't fix it. Too hard to program?
void fjord
helped a lot with smtg like athena attack
unkempt pagoda
the “change” was more of a clarification than a real, hard nerf
cunning urchin
I think the nerf makes no difference to 99% of players, but quite a big difference for me.
chrome geyser
It's hard to program; and that's why you don't have pom scaling with hermes speed boons; cause they are hardcoded in
untold quiver
Yes but that's a high heat thing yeah @cunning urchin ?
cunning urchin
More like high skill tbh.
unkempt pagoda
very much a 1% of players thing
chrome geyser
it does not apply a multiplier to the frames you use; there are lines where it checks whether there is hermes or not for example.
untold quiver
Those seem pretty synonymous
turbid needle
is the rama bow good? i am planning what to invest in to also unlock legendary aspects. what about gilgamesh fists?
chrome geyser
It's not super hard to code; but just involved.
rama is good; not as good as chiren
chrome geyser
i like the slow hard main attack on gilgamesh; but I actively avoid the maim
gray moon
only 4th aspect i like is Arthur
chrome geyser
lucifer is extremely strong
turbid needle
I unlocked Excal and Lucifer and i love them both
void fjord
i love guan yu
cunning urchin
I think it was really just @weak moat and me and maybe a couple other people who used the first punch on reaction to some really fast attacks in order to Deflect them. And the nerf makes that a lot harder to do.
turbid needle
i got infinite chamber on lucifer and it was crazy good
chrome geyser
guan yu is done for me after the nerfs. It used to be my favourite
gray moon
doesnt infinite chamber prevent the ramping?
void fjord
yes
gray moon
i thought ramping was the whole point
untold quiver
I like Maim, I like it for wave clear and boosting calls
turbid needle
i loved it, just because i could dash around and keep it up with zeus stuff
chrome geyser
unless you have epic zeus attack and epic support fire
but even then it's so outclassed by the ramping
untold quiver
Infinity chamber is great with zeus attack and support fire
chrome geyser
it's more of a meme hammer than anything
hard holly
Yeah Maim in the game is currently sadly not good
untold quiver
Never stop lasering
hard holly
Youre better off just attacking
gray moon
the 25% needed to be multiplicative
chrome geyser
it looks fun for sure with infinite lasering; but you don't need it.
gray moon
otherwise, you are just buffing enemies basically
chrome geyser
ramping damage is just so good; and you still get to keep the laser on 70% of the time
hence its a meme boon
hard holly
Yup, thats basically my assessment
After I tried Mult-maim for a bit
It felt way better
hard holly
Also means the hammer upgrade you can get for Maim is actually worth picking
chrome geyser
athena doesnt really work with the laser
gray moon
it protects you from the front.....most of the time
cunning urchin
I like Demeter more, but I'm not great at using Talos to its full effect
@untold quiver I wouldn't feel bad about that. I always try to spread the word for how to use it, but I think most people don't really understand how to use it effectively. Even when I tell people to just cancel the Special immediately 99% of the time, they still end up doing the Uppercut a lot. The input for the cancel is kinda tight, but I'm used to that from fighting games. And even once you know how to use it, actually doing that effectively takes quite a bit of experience.
untold quiver
I don't use it alot, like I said wave clear, and call prep....doesn't matter if you boosted te boss damage when your hitting them with Ares or Posidon
cunning urchin
Talos has a lot of potential, but it's not easy to bring out all of it.
void fjord
i always though of talos smtg poseidon flourish wld be great for
chrome geyser
the laser hitbox for deflect is tiny; so alot of the time attacks go thoroug
void fjord
push them away, bring them back
cunning urchin
Nah, Tempest Flourish is more of a meme build.
chrome geyser
also does not really work on meelee attacks due to how deflect works on them
i always though of talos smtg poseidon flourish wld be great for
@void fjord ah the fabled yank and yeet
untold quiver
@cunning urchin awww you're sweet ...I don't feel bad about it, it's just an observation....I play a lot of fighting games too so I'm familiar with cancels, but I'm not great at it on Talos
chrome geyser
That was my first boon on talos. I called it the yoyo
void fjord
well demeter rn is the only fist aspect for me
hard holly
God how I wish the fists were more like a fighting game weapons
chrome geyser
its fun but i agree; you gotta cancel a lot on talos
hard holly
Yknow, combos and stuff
chrome geyser
but it is my favourite meme build for sure
i'm really bad at them so im happy thats not the case
gray moon
Lucifer is giving me a hard time. Damage is nice, but only hitting one target sucks. Do I just need good Hammers?
void fjord
well i have all aspects for all waepons (except 4ths) i can play with whatever i want
gray moon
i know that, but damage looks terrible compared to Arthur, at base
chrome geyser
it's not as hammer dependent; but hammers help a ton
full ammo; without any upgrades deal 390 damage
void fjord
on fists the only hammer im excited for is long knuckle
gray moon
Arthur does 340, and a lot faster, and with AOE
chrome geyser
while allowing you to reposition
void fjord
kinda sad they reduced the dmg increase from it
chrome geyser
you get more from boons. Also it's a ranged weapon
ranged are always more defensive than melee
gray moon
i mean Spear could be considered a ranged weapon
cunning urchin
Breaching Cross, Long Knuckle, and—on Demeter Aspect—Explosive Upper. All the best hammers, really.
chrome geyser
you also have the bomb to compliment damage and for constant aoe
void fjord
lol have you heard of the melee build for the bow?
gray moon
Dual shot + point Blank?
chrome geyser
my best weapons are rail and bow
because range allows repositioning much more
I usually go for the triple shot and point blank for rama
thats a lot of damage
void fjord
rama, explosive and twin (atleast for me) with heartbreak strike and ares special
gray moon
Flurry feels almost op for the bow, compared to other hammers.
now with the damage increase
void fjord
get their duo and ur set
chrome geyser
flurry is the best hammer for base arrow for sure
but my main damage is usually volley on chiron
had a ramping on special with extra 4 arrows the other day, with demeter on it
the damage. Took 10 volleys to melt the EM final boss
chrome geyser
It's good to distribute status; and that's it
gray moon
or deflect
untold quiver
My highest heat is the fists, followed closely by blade/rail, then shield then bow/spear
chrome geyser
that i have not tried
My highest heat is the fists, followed closely by blade/rail, then shield then bow/spear
@untold quiver it used to be spear before the Guanyu nerf; now my best is bow, rail, fists, sword, shield and spear
not heat; but general winrate
heat i have done all to I think 23
gray moon
for shield, i get sad if i dont get Pulverising Blow
untold quiver
@chrome geyser I never really used guanyu I'm Achilles all the way was Blade rifts now with the boost more dash attack/attacking focused
gray moon
Achilles is my favorite for spear
chrome geyser
achilles is a bit disorienting for me; if there was no wind up for the special i would be down
other than that im hades gang now
silk anvil
It turns out I was in the middle of a Beo shield run, and managed to pick up the charged throw; wasnt really anything to write home about imo; but then again, maybe I wasnt spec'd out for it. What special do people take for it again? Crit?i still felt like it was terribly slow
turbid needle
i can't use achilles spear
gray moon
i would like Hades, if not for the fact that Hades cannot get Flurry Jab
chrome geyser
GY would be ok now if the health penalty was 25%
but with the nerfs it too muc
you can get serrated edge though
and that's all you need
gray moon
edge
chrome geyser
lol yeah
gray moon
still good even with achilles
Achilles bonus is most impactful for Cast
which is hte other reason I like it over Hades
chrome geyser
actually probably works better for achilles cause you can teleport away
gray moon
1k damage Dio bombs are pretty nice
untold quiver
That's what I like about hunting blades Achilles, no good hammer? No problem
chrome geyser
still the windup time kills me
gray moon
and Hunting Blades with Achilles are LOL
chrome geyser
btw vicious cycle is not as good anymore right?
gray moon
Texas Chain Saw Massacre, Hades Edition
chrome geyser
since they increased base damage but lowered dps frequency
solid cairn
zagspect sword flurry max attack speed
chrome geyser
on all blade rifts
untold quiver
Yeah now it's amazing and not OMG Amazing
solid cairn
it's a good time
cunning urchin
@silk anvil Charged Flight on Beowulf was broken when it was +400%. It's obviously a lot weaker now that it's +200%.
It's still a solid choice. Charged Hammers are multiplicative.
So you get a lot of damage if you put Heartbreak Flourish on it.
silk anvil
Ah @cunning urchin , I was just rocking deflect on it; that makes sense I suppose
half crater
i feel like i should know this but do +% buffs to attack effect curse of agony?
silk anvil
I'm just upsetti that cold-snapping foes didnt really do much; tfw cold burst on cast and cold burst on charge attack hit for pennies
cunning urchin
@half crater no.
unkempt pagoda
i feel like i should know this but do +% buffs to attack effect curse of agony?
no, doom is a source of damage separate from yourspecialattack
half crater
okay yeah i thought so
turbid needle
the only way to increase curse damage is the all sources can crit and the one that makes curse stronger if you stack it, no?
exotic orchid
Blade rift does that count
half crater
also impending doom
cunning urchin
@turbid needle also anything that just buffs your damage generally.
Like Aspect of Eris's ability.
unkempt pagoda
curse of agony/pain are cool names but don't expect me to actually know the difference between them
unkempt pagoda
pecial 
cunning urchin
Pecial.
turbid needle
when does chaos aspect shield shine? because at base level i barely notice the two shields.
unkempt pagoda
Pain = P = tisiPhone
turbid needle
also, any boon that shine with it? Zeus I suppose?
unkempt pagoda
chaos aspect needs more investment in order to get great
silk anvil
@turbid needle also anything that just buffs your damage generally.
@cunning urchin
How does that work with doom?
Say you hit someone with a doom mark just before the 8 seconds is up for increased general damage
After the 3 second delay for doom to go off, is the damage buffed? Or back to base?
cunning urchin
¯_(ツ)_/¯
silk anvil
:(
cunning urchin
You find out and tell me. 
silk anvil
tfw people keep telling me a training room would ruin the game
I just have severe edge cases I wanna test without skulls tanking shots for tanks
cunning urchin
32 Heat and below is basically a training room. 
lament creek
I wanna mess around with unlocking debug mode
silk anvil
I will finally have a moment this evening to document to attacks-per-second of every weapon at a base value
That way I can put to rest for myself the difference between Doom attacks + stacks vs. Other stacking boons and determine which is better bang for buck
lament creek
previous games shipped with debug exes you could run that had debug options enabled but not this one
cunning urchin
But how do you factor in things like Dash-Strikes? Good luck.
silk anvil
@cunning urchin , it's purely for a boon stacking calculation. I can run numbers for different attack patterns to get a baseline value for the weapons being used and such
hearty elbow
lol have you heard of the melee build for the bow?
@void fjord Honestly that's one of my favorite things about Bows 1.0. There is no "the x build" anymore. All of the aspects are flexible enough to pivot and be effective depending on hammers provided. Special builds work on Zag, Attack builds work on Chiron (though to be fair they always have), hybrids work on Hera, Rama can go attack damage, or Hangover/Lightning on special, or hybrid. All of them can go shotgun style or range.
turbid needle
charged special on bow and shooting in meelee was fun
cunning urchin
Melee build for Coronacht?
silk anvil
look. If you wanna do 100 damage with your fist, you need to punch [here] [here] and [here] . But if you wanna slap some shades on zag and go full-on Ali, you can so this dash-strike maneuver, stack 9001 doom hits in the span of 3 seconds, and OTK that flying skull before it knows what's up
hearty elbow
Charged Volley on the new special is a beast.
cunning urchin
Did we go from every weapon is bow to every weapon is Malphon?
hearty elbow
Lol, tbf there weren't enough true melee weapons
silk anvil
Tfw no mallet
cunning urchin
We have Knuckle (base Malphon), Long Knuckle (Malphon with Long Knuckle) Longer Knuckle would be Stygius, and then . . .
heady relic
Why doesn't Aeris' Blade Dash stack with Black Metal or Engulfing Vortex??
hearty elbow
Stygius is like... melee in the loosest sense of the word. Dash Strike has like half a screen of range and Excalibur has Long Knuckle range by default
unkempt pagoda
excal has like a 270 degree hitbox, its insane lol
and then poseidon sword is a cast build's dream
silk anvil
Why doesn't Aeris' Blade Dash stack with Black Metal or Engulfing Vortex??
@heady relic ... it doesnt?
hearty elbow
If it doesn't F10
cunning urchin
Did they ever fix that Excalibur can backstab enemies that are behind you and facing you?
heady relic
Yeah I'll f10 it
silk anvil
Did they ever fix that Excalibur can backstab enemies that are behind you and facing you?
@cunning urchin
That's not a bug, that's Dark Souls
unkempt pagoda
Did they ever fix that Excalibur can backstab enemies that are behind you and facing you?
don't think so, accomplished that in a 1.0 run once
half crater
that seems like a feature tbh
a hilarious, somewhat nonsensical feature
the best kind
silk anvil
Tfw coding damage to come from behind zagman has unintended side effects
solid cairn
I had a weird glitch a few updates ago where zag was stuck in the wind-up animation for the third hit of excal after clearing a room. He could just kinda slide across the ground and the only way to get out of it was by dashing
hearty elbow
It might be that Backstabs are checked upon attack initiation rather than hit-confirm, which should work the vast majority of the time, so Excal's thicc wide swings might break that logic.
Pure speculation though
solid cairn
it happened twice.
silk anvil
I had a weird glitch a few updates ago where zag was stuck in the wind-up animation for the third hit of excal after clearing a room. He could just kinda slide across the ground and the only way to get out of it was by dashing
@solid cairn
I used to constantly be caught in spin animation for spear
solid cairn
OH that too
cunning urchin
It think it's just simply that Excalibur's hitbox starts behind the enemy and swings into their back.
hearty elbow
That's happened to me on a lot of aspects in some regard. Bow getting stuck in charging animation while you move around
silk anvil
It's been a hot minute since I've wanted to use anything but fists tho, so I dont know the hip new glitches features ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
hearty elbow
I was a Bow hipster before, but now I've been promoted to Bow tryhard. Why bother using anything else.
unkempt pagoda
bow mains unite
silk anvil
The real thing they should implement is heat-jumping. Casually step over [x] numbers of heat to just get the rewards for previous tiers 
untold quiver
I don't know if this is everyone else's experience but now that I've encountered them a few times separately close together for reference with Trippy Flare duos Ice wine v scintillating feast is a Room clear v boss clear thing yeah?
hearty elbow
Man I just do not like Scintillating Feast
unkempt pagoda
you can get them both so i don't think the distinction matters much
hearty elbow
It's got all the problems of old Lightning Rod. What is going to actually stay in your Fog.
silk anvil
I was a Bow hipster before, but now I've been promoted to Bow tryhard. Why bother using anything else.
@hearty elbow
I have a bone to pick with bows since my last run ended in failure. What changes the special to only shoot 3 projectiles on chiron?
unkempt pagoda
literally the point of fog is that things stay in your fog lol
hearty elbow
Your cheapskating on Titan Blood
untold quiver
Well this is with Hera Bow so the timing is easier
unkempt pagoda
free stunlocks on anything unarmored and now there's free lightning too
untold quiver
And that's why I say bosses as they all have stationary phases
hearty elbow
Right but I typically only care about CC'ing armored enemies, unarmored enemies just.. .die
silk anvil
It's got all the problems of old Lightning Rod. What is going to actually stay in your Fog.
@hearty elbow
If you pair it with demeter duo, things are slowed and in a cloud of lightning and (maybe still damage reduction?)
And if you hit em with 3 of those? gg ez
they dont have to stay in the cloud if they're dead
cunning urchin
CCing? Crush-countering?
hearty elbow
Crush card [virus]
silk anvil
Crush countering? what artemis and 'dusa do to all their silly suitors
unkempt pagoda
Closed Captioning?
untold quiver
Crowd controling in case people aren't being snarky
daring cargo
Alright so I finally beat my first playthrough on hades (yay) and want to try the adamant rail. Any tips on which one and stuff I should look for?
cunning urchin
How does my Steam guide have 1,560 unique visitors and "not enough ratings"? 
hearty elbow
Base form is fine to get a feel of the weapon. Lightning Strike all the way
untold quiver
People don't rate
cunning urchin
@daring cargo Lightning Strike + Divine Dash.
hearty elbow
Do not absolutely do not waste Blood on Zag rail though lol
cunning urchin
People includes you. You could rate it.
unkempt pagoda
rail attack doesn't stun enemies on its own, so be careful
daring cargo
For 1st, 2nd, or 3rd rail?
hearty elbow
Zag rail is 1st rail
unkempt pagoda
zag rail is fine lol
hearty elbow
Don't spend blood if you don't have to
silk anvil
People includes you. You could rate it.
@cunning urchin
U got a link?
hearty elbow
You can get a feel for how they play with base form
daring cargo
rgr
winged patio
man
cunning urchin
For Hestia, you want to get Heartbreak Strike, Deadly Strike, or Divine Strike.
daring cargo
I unlocked the second one already.
torpid wren
-reading chat- Ohhh? the Telos uppercut can be canceled?
unkempt pagoda
eris is best with lightning strike, but it's also very versatile (since the damage buff is global)
cunning urchin
lol
unkempt pagoda
hangover, blade rifts, crystal beam
hearty elbow
Zag rail is best with Spread Fire, and Lucifer is best at being worse than Eris in every way possible.
unkempt pagoda
can work as a makeshift cast build
silk anvil
-reading chat- Ohhh? the Telos uppercut can be canceled?
@torpid wren as far as in concerned all fist attacks get cancelled, what with the dodging you're always doing.
untold quiver
When that first hammer is rocket launcher, Eris becomes Special only for me lok
cunning urchin
@torpid wren yeah, if you do it right and fast, it'll look like Zagreus just dashes, but enemies will be pulled towards the start of your dash.
hearty elbow
Don't let the additive haters (myself included) get you down. 75% on anything is always noticeable
untold quiver
My favorite to see is rocket and triple special
cunning urchin
You really just press Special and then immediately Dash.
torpid wren
Interesting. pull + dash cancel + attack + pull again into a loop?
silk anvil
I was unimpressed with cluster bomb when I used it, but maybe I didnt have the right special boon
hearty elbow
I was offered Rocket + Cluster but didn't take the cluster because Ricochet was also being offered. Is the spread too wide to shotgun or is that as sick as it sounds.
unkempt pagoda
from what i hear, it's one of the best shotguns in the game
untold quiver
I don't like cluster without speed on special because it takes so long to fire
silk anvil
@torpid wren I was under the impression you use talos just for the debuff, so you wouldnt have to apply it so often
cunning urchin
Hmm. No need to pull the same enemy twice. And Dash-Striking after a pull can be risky because Dash-Strikes don't have i-frames. I think I cancel into empty dash more often than into Dash-Strike.
unkempt pagoda
haven't had the fortune of trying it out for myself
hearty elbow
Hmm, yeah, maybe it was a mistake. If only Ricochet + Splitting Bolt didn't trivialize everything on Eris. Because I had value Deadly Flourish + Rocket to try for Support Fire.
cunning urchin
Cluster Bomb is the 5x bombs?
hearty elbow
Yeah
cunning urchin
I like it. Don't really need Swift Flourish for it.
unkempt pagoda
i assume that comment was with rocket bomb in mind too
hearty elbow
You need to organically reload + dash cencel with Eris anyway, and I typically don't do it while attacking for iframes, so it's easy to throw out a free rocket every time I do that
It's up like 90% of the time if I just do it when I'd reload + dash cancel
torpid wren
Nice! It's cool this game has cancel/dash tech.. The only one i ever used was Excalibur.. sorta. where you can re-position with dashes during your slow windup attacks.
unkempt pagoda
does cluster rocket throw the rockets out at the same time, or is each rocket fired individually?
hearty elbow
Well cluster throws them out at the same time so I'd expect it would behave the same
silk anvil
You need to organically reload + dash cencel with Eris anyway, and I typically don't do it while attacking for iframes, so it's easy to throw out a free rocket every time I do that
@hearty elbow
Why with eris specifically?
Is it the only one that can reload+dash cancel? Does the reload still go through if you dash cancel? Etc.
hearty elbow
We were talking about Eris. It's true for every Rail
But I was defending that Swift Flourish isn't necessary
With that playstyle
untold quiver
Unless they changed it, with rocket launcher it's one at a time
hearty elbow
Yeah, we're just guessing. I haven't seen Rocket + Cluster personally.
untold quiver
I have ...and I didn't see anything in patch notes that changed it
silk anvil
"If used with Rocket Bomb, 5 rockets are fired in a 150° spread over about a second, firing right to left" is still on wiki
So yeah, swift flourish would probably speed that up
hearty elbow
Oh, so like Bow special
untold quiver
It feels way slower than the bow special
hearty elbow
I meant mechanically. But yeah, 1 second is rough
unkempt pagoda
https://www.reddit.com/r/HadesTheGame/comments/ezdgls/cluster_bomb_rocket_bomb_mad_damage/
this is from 7 months ago, but
found this on the subreddit
hearty elbow
Though I say that as someone who actually enjoyed the slightly masochistic play loop of finding openings for Rama power shots in Blood Price.
silk anvil
280 damage for all 5 base rockets to hit with cluster+rocket? 🤢
hearty elbow
Eww, is that all?
silk anvil
And this is supposedly a good "shotgun" combo?
Credit where it's due, there might be some interesting mechanics with special boons. If Zeus really is every 0.2 seconds you can lightning, then that's +64*5 right there
But if its 0.3 seconds, then it's like, +64*(2or3, depending on how generous the game is)
half crater
280 damage for all 5 base rockets to hit with cluster+rocket? 🤢
@silk anvil surely its more than this
half crater
i was doing 1600 per shot last i had it, and iirc i only had level 3 demeter buffing it
silk anvil
If rocket is 80 damage base, and cluster means each special is -30% damage
... math says it is pitiful amount of damage
untold quiver
Yeah like I said I like Rocket Bomb + Triple Bomb
cunning urchin
It's a 200 msec CD for Thunder Flourish per enemy.
silk anvil
Rocket bomb + triple bomb may be a different case entirely
hearty elbow
You can get to 1600 pretty easily with crit and % increase boons
silk anvil
It's a 200 msec CD for Thunder Flourish per enemy.
@cunning urchin
Inclusive or inclusive. If it takes 1 second to fire 5 shots, that's a shot at
0 sec, 0.2 sec, 0.4 sec, 0.6, and 0.8
So how friendly is the timing is my question?
cunning urchin
I don't really get what the point of Thunder Flourish on Rail would be.
silk anvil
I don't really get what the point of Thunder Flourish on Rail would be.
@cunning urchin
A divine accentuation to your explosions
cunning urchin
That's Divine Flourish. You're mixing things up.
untold quiver
Rail special is for big damage numbers to me
silk anvil
I just really want zeusy boi to be better than he is >:c
As much as I love chain lightning, I wanna have a pikachu thunderbolt spam run
hearty elbow
Deflecting things with Rocket Bomb is an S-tier flex
cunning urchin
So you're saying I should do that at 45 Heat or something?
half crater
anyone know what the +% increase on rare level 3 demeter is? can't find it easily
cunning urchin
What kind of flex would that be then? Matrix breaking?
hearty elbow
Lol
cunning urchin
@half crater https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1P6oZ6i8zmY6s7PM_AkX_g6bjZ601iP_xi9CxzEpujJ4/edit?usp=sharing
silk anvil
anyone know what the +% increase on rare level 3 demeter is? can't find it easily
@half crater
Level 3 demeter... what?
half crater
oh demeter special lol
silk anvil
Nvm, go with maya's answer
cunning urchin
Who is maya?
half crater
thanks
half crater
with eris it comes to 820, which is pretty close to half what the number on the screen was for me
silk anvil
Without wanting to take the easy way out and save you the ping, and without wanting to take the hard way out to type your full username, I took the liberty of shortening it to a single nyaa; may my punishment be swift
half crater
help did i hack the game by accident
cunning urchin
You can just ping.
silk anvil
help did i hack the game by accident
@half crater
Yes sorry, you're doing too much damage. Off to the gulag with you
half crater
oh no
cunning urchin
I like that they didn't nerf Smoldering Air in 1.0.
So I can just keep building that on every aspect.
Highest damage option is practically always Heartbreak Strike/Flourish or Lightning Strike/Flourish.
silk anvil
@half crater , it's worth noting you may also have an additional +60٪ damage from Eris bonus damage... though in not sure how easy it is to absorb rocket damage
cunning urchin
So that's already 50% of the requirement for Smoldering Air just by going for max damage.
silk anvil
:c people need to update this infernal wiki
cunning urchin
Best build for Eris, since we're on the topic, also Smoldering Air.
Lightning Strike + Heartbreak Flourish + any good Call.
silk anvil
I'm noticing a theme here
cunning urchin
+75% damage Calls every 5 seconds.
The more you think about it, the more broken it sounds.
silk anvil
So when you say /flourish, are you saying heartbreak flourish? Why do so many specials have "flourish"?
solid cairn
what's smoldering air again
silk anvil
California, presently
tiny holly
how do i unlock the gauntlet secret weapon aspect
hearty elbow
Flourish is the naming convention
cunning urchin
Your Call charges up automatically, but is capped at 25%.
Auto Gauge Gain: 1% every .2 seconds
hearty elbow
Same as Strike for attack
cunning urchin
Basically, you get a free Call every 5 seconds.
tiny holly
how do i unlock the gauntlet secret weapon aspect
silk anvil
how do i unlock the gauntlet secret weapon aspect
@tiny holly ||bullman tells ye||
cunning urchin
@tiny holly check pins in #h1-story-discussion for hidden aspects.
tiny holly
ok ty
brittle briar
Can someone clarfy how the parting shot duo boon works?
(Your cast gains any bonuses you have for striking foes from behind. >Bonus backstab damage: +35%)
It adds 35% bonus backstab damage in general? Do the cast get backstab damage or a general damage bonus equal to my backstab damage?
silk anvil
I'd imagine it means your cast, when backstabbing, gets +35% it's own damage added to it@brittle briar
cunning urchin
Yes, +35% bonus backstab damage in general. And also your casts gain the ability to backstab.
hearty elbow
Shadow Slash Poseidon Aspect
cunning urchin
So your casts will get all your backstab damage bonuses.
But only if you actually backstab with your cast.
silk anvil
is it really stabbing if it's a thrown item?
cunning urchin
It is because that is what the goddesses have decided.
brittle briar
ok thanks guys
silk anvil
@hearty elbow ... huh... too bad it's not +35% of the +50% of the plus +200%
Or maybe it is... I dunno, crit calculations seem to be variable on when they stack or apply
Don't question the goddesses.
@cunning urchin
grumble grumble, I bet Athena gets to question the goddesses
rare kayak
oh heck
just realised its all backstab
not just cast
no wonder i thougut it was mediocre
lmao
silk anvil
no wonder i thougut it was mediocre
@rare kayak
It's okay, fighting enemies face-to-face is the only admirable way to do combat
rare kayak
false
there is also fighting enemies gun to gun
and sword to sword
and fist to fist
who fights an enemy with their face
cunning urchin
Lady Athena is a goddess. Much unlike you, blackguard. 🔫
silk anvil
who fights an enemy with their face
@rare kayak
A friendly hinorable rock, that's who
unkempt pagoda
exalted fist-fighters when
rare kayak
man speaking of blackguard
rare kayak
hearing some of theseus lines ar ehonestly the best
silk anvil
Lady Athena is a goddess. Much unlike you, blackguard. 🔫
@cunning urchin
Skyrim belongs to the nords
Elysium belongs to the heroes!
I'm no man.
@cunning urchin
Gonna let it go to your head and slay the Witch King from LOTR?
cunning urchin
Been there, done that.
untold quiver
@rare kayak did you get the exchange yet where Zag asks why he's still Champion if he keeps getting his butt kicked?
silk anvil
The bromance of the peeps up top is admirable, that's for sure.
until HOMEWRECKER ZAG COMES ALONG
dry ember
good morning everyone
rare kayak
technically wrong channel, but i swear i had the storyline where theseus acts like asterius is cheating on him the run after i started using aphro call to charm
hearty elbow
Morgen
cunning urchin
Should probably move story conversation to #h1-story-discussion.
unkempt pagoda
good morning fox
hearty elbow
It generates Youtube revenue
dry ember
lol
cunning urchin
Should probably spoiler-tag new content.
silk anvil
nyaanyaa mewmew more like nyaanyaa macduff
@rare kayak
Birnam Wood comes to Dunsinane
hearty elbow
(it's pretty atrocious, in its own right, and because it cuts off one of your most powerful slots)
tall yarrow
If I dash while charging bow, is it a dash strike? Or do I have to dash first and then charge?
hearty elbow
Dashing while charging will cancel the charge
inland meadow
So I have one zeus boon at the first floor transition point if I sell that boon will I have a slot opened up for the 4 locked in gods?
silk anvil
(it's pretty atrocious, in its own right, and because it cuts off one of your most powerful slots)
@hearty elbow
Are you talking about aphro call here?
hearty elbow
||Dad call||
tall yarrow
What do you mean it cancels the charge? The shot goes off
rare kayak
aphro call is really good are you crazy
silk anvil
||Dad call||
@hearty elbow ah I see,
I tried to piece it together with preceding context clues and got it wrong, my b
rare kayak
its got great disrupt, really useful for stopping a charging asterius in his tracks or dad stuff
hearty elbow
Yeah, if you dash while charging, it releases the arrow at whatever the charge was at that point. Dash-strike is determined upon initiating the charge, not dashing on release
You can easily tell because of the difference of charge times
silk anvil
Yeah, if you dash while charging, it releases the arrow at whatever the charge was at that point. Dash-strike is determined upon initiating the charge, not dashing on release
@hearty elbow
It took me forever with practicing on skele to realize it was less precision timing than I was trying to make it
hearty elbow
It's fairly forgiving yeah
rare kayak
nice thing about hades is that its a pretty easy game execution wise
tall yarrow
Yeah that seems to be right. Through ridiculous chaos boon and Artemis stacking, I have 250% extra dash strike damage ...
hearty elbow
Yeah, you should virtually always be dash striking with bow
silk anvil
Is there any damage reduction for dash strikes?
rare kayak
yeah
hearty elbow
Yeah
rare kayak
max 60 compared to max 100 on base bow i think
not sure if scaling is same but thats power shot
silk anvil
But if you have dash strike crits, it works out? Interesting
weary gust
do dash attack mods apply to dash special for fists
rare kayak
anyway personally the thing you should be doing with the bow is to give up the run and play hestia aspect instead
hearty elbow
Yes
weary gust
ty
rare kayak
oh i didnt know that obe
hearty elbow
@rare kayak That's true in Blood Price. Bow is insane in 1.0
rare kayak
thats true it does feel smoother
doesnt not make me feel like i should be playing hades aspect instead though
silk anvil
doesnt not make me feel like i should be playing hades aspect instead though
@rare kayak
Hades aspect?
Also, hestia aspect of the rail instead of bow? Lmao
weary gust
whats the appeal of hades aspect? I hear a lot about it but whenever I try it im not impressed
hearty elbow
I mean it's not that ridiculous. It was easily the truth in Blood Price.
silk anvil
Oh yeah right, just seemed odd to throw in, but then I remembered were talking about dash strikes
sullen plaza
just had the most insane run i've had so far, using the adamant rail with poseidon knockback attack and zeus duo boon 
weary gust
feels like all the spin based aspects really need the faster charge though
hearty elbow
Hades is definitely one of the more technical aspects. My mind was changed after trying dash-strike > spin, and learning the timing for the smallest spin
rare kayak
not really, mid spin hades aspect covers a large area as is
hearty elbow
It plays like butter after that
weary gust
ahh
rare kayak
its not really as hard as ledger makes it out to be
dash in hold button one second release
silk anvil
just had the most insane run i've had so far, using the adamant rail with poseidon knockback attack and zeus duo boon
@sullen plaza
Does Poseidon knockback actually knock things back now?
I swear the knockback scales with damage dealt, and never did anything when I tried it on rail
rare kayak
or hold button one second dash in release
hearty elbow
If you do it too fast you don't do anything though lol
rare kayak
and youve marked like 80% of the relevant enemies
sullen plaza
yeah it was knocking enemies back @silk anvil
i had a boon that boosted boss damage for all my knockback boons as well, i've never melted bosses so fast
rare kayak
the other three aspects for spear are for the most part usually special based though
but even without spin synergies the hades spear functions real well
plus yknow its free 2.5x damage multiplier
hearty elbow
It's preferable to take multiplicative or base damage hammers with Hades anyway, Serrated Point and Explosive Launcher at premium
rare kayak
good eats
hearty elbow
(Hades is additive)
rare kayak
honestly i dunno the formula but i see +150% and lasts 10 seconds
silk anvil
yeah it was knocking enemies back @silk anvil
@sullen plaza
I'll have to try it again; I thought I wa so clever when I wanted to do it when rail first came out, but when things continued to walk towards me as I was shooting em with a water gun, I quickly gave up on the dream of being a seafaring man
hearty elbow
unless it says base, +whatever% is always additive
rare kayak
poseidon attack is honestly a contender for one of my never pick boons
hmm i guess so yeah thats makes sense
sullen plaza
i'd never choose it unless i'm using the rail probably
hearty elbow
Super soaker Lucifer is very fun
silk anvil
poseidon attack is honestly a contender for one of my never pick boons
@rare kayak I'd like it more if it was consistent with knockback
rare kayak
even with rail it makes positioning real awkward and messes up range
also i dont actually pick serrated often
i know its real good but my brain cant handle less dash
silk anvil
I want to throw people into walls and have them explode themselves and all their friends! is that too much to ask
rare kayak
yeah they increased the dash debuff iirc
but yeah my brain cant handle spacing with less dash
so i dont take it
hearty elbow
That's half my reasoning of hating the old Zag sword lol
rare kayak
also i know explosive launcer is like, super good
hearty elbow
Pretty much guaranteed to overshoot into Lava or spike traps
rare kayak
but chain skewer is so fun to watch
silk anvil
Pretty much guaranteed to overshoot into Lava or spike traps
@hearty elbow Lernie Mk.2 has perfect spacing to have you dash into lava: always
sullen plaza
i got the triple special hammer upgrade as well for the rail, seemed pretty nuts
hearty elbow
Yeah it's good. A huuuugee QoL at the very least
white swan
Anytime I should be taking poseidon? i feel like I always end up skipping his boons
rare kayak
triple special for me is like chain shot with bow
weapon feels unplayable without it
well not quite rail still playable
poseidon cast and aid are really good
hearty elbow
I'm cooling on Chain Shot. It's great, makes Bow very smooth to play but the base pierce is already kinda good enough
In most situations
rare kayak
plus if you have an early chance with dionysus taking a pos boon early should be taken into consideration too
early exclusive access is insane
maybe not attack but id consider special
or dash
hearty elbow
Yeah, fortunately dio and poseidon have good support boons so it's never hardship to splash them
rare kayak
oh i know chain shot isnt exactly good but every bounce is a shot of endorphins directly into my prefrontal cortex
white swan
Sounds like it'd be fun on a shield build. I might try it out
rare kayak
actually its not bad with rama, adds damage pretty good when firing into a crowd
hearty elbow
It's excellent on Rama, yeah, but that's different.
rare kayak
an early pos boon that increases resource gain is also pretty sick
hearty elbow
Rama's shot is huuuge, and its range at mid charges is lacking.
empty veldt
for aspect of rama
rare kayak
and the one that just gives resources has been known to save my life but thats a super gamble
empty veldt
For aspect of rama, is it better to use Aprhodite or Artemis as the main attack boon?
rare kayak
both are defensible yeah
honestly i wouldnt mind a pos on attack too to create space
admittedly usually the enemies are dead but
hearty elbow
Artemis also leaves Heart Rend open with probably Heartbreak Flourish
empty veldt
how does rama compare to zagreus aspect with both being max upgrade?
unkempt pagoda
zag > rama imo
empty veldt
Artemis also leaves Heart Rend open with probably Heartbreak Flourish
@hearty elbow I tried that with Rama, saw sum nice big numbers
hearty elbow
They're comparable. Zag is a lot more flexible
rare kayak
it honestly feels like its a matter of playstyle? game is pretty balanced for every weapon except maybe zaegis
worldly trellis
Maxed zag sword aaaaaand now Im not sure why
hearty elbow
6 diamonds?
cunning urchin
I would build for Deadly Strike + Heartbreak Flourish + Heart Rend or Heartbreak Strike + Thunder Flourish + Smoldering Air, personally.
rare kayak
you need yo max zag sword anyway so dont feel too torn up about t
empty veldt
Why do u need to max zag sword?
cunning urchin
Divine Dash for the former build, Hunter Dash for the latter.
rare kayak
for skelly
hearty elbow
Yeah, Hunter Dash is pretty tempting on Rama since it has a built in multiplier
empty veldt
oh to get skelly's favor?
hearty elbow
But as always Divine Dash is better 😛
rare kayak
i think
its worth maxing out the zagspects since youll be running them for a while to chase the hammer prophecies i fel
also its cheap
median oar
do I need to finish a run with guan yu to unlock other weapon aspects?
rare kayak
and yeah game is balanced, theres only a couple of weapons that really show full power when maxed
hearty elbow
My favorite Rama build is still Artemis attack + Dio special for Splitting Headache, with Relentless Volley and Explosive Shot(or Twin Shot in 1.0)
rare kayak
most can be ran level 1 and youll still do decent
empty veldt
Also
cunning urchin
Anything can be run at Lv.1 and do well.
rare kayak
oh splitting headache is real fun
empty veldt
The god keepsakes only work once right? the thing where it makes the next boon the corresponding keepsake?
rare kayak
i dont like it in conjunction with ares duo though
err yeah but you need to enter the room to use up the charge
median oar
so once I've discovered guan yu the other events to unlock other aspects can start to happen?
empty veldt
err yeah but you need to enter the room to use up the charge
@rare kayak yup figured
median oar
is there a guide on this anywhere it's so confusing
cunning urchin
@median oar yes.
rare kayak
if you, say, enter chaos instead of going to god x boon room the next boon will still be god x and your keepsake will have 1clock on it
hearty elbow
Aphro attack + Thunder Flourish + Smoldering Air has a higher upside though, and gives you the runner runner outs of just getting all of the Zeus boons and being able to go machine gun special build
rare kayak
my first rama run was zeus + special hammer + splitting bolt + cold fusion
it was.... special
well at least i think it was splitting bolt, i could be misremembering
silk anvil
Anything can be run at Lv.1 and do well.
@cunning urchin
But only the truly great can be run at lv. 5
cunning urchin
Only the truly great can run anything at Lv.1. 
rare kayak
some of them are really different beasts at level 5 compared to level 1 though
like chiron
empty veldt
Only the truly great can run anything at Lv.1.
@cunning urchin i'm having trouble doing guan yu at lvl 1
hearty elbow
Guan Yu High Confidence Level 1 gogogo
rare kayak
imagine running high confidence when you can run ri4
cunning urchin
I'll probably do that on a new save at some point.
silk anvil
Only the truly great can run anything at Lv.1.
@cunning urchin bet you wont do heat 60 with 0 mirror upgrades and 0 weapon buff
empty veldt
speaking of Guan Yu, how do you play it properly, and whats high confidence?
rare kayak
alt mirror buff
empty veldt
oh you mean the green ones ok ok
rare kayak
instead of extra hp you get more dmagae at +80% health
hearty elbow
@cunning urchin bet you wont do heat 60 with 0 mirror upgrades and 0 weapon buff
@silk anvil Lol you have to do 60 with 0 mirror upgrades
cunning urchin
@silk anvil bet you won't do 52 Heat with maxed-out weapons and mirror.
silk anvil
I have to?
Or
i have to?
hearty elbow
Yes
rare kayak
well ledger if you want to be technical
i think max heat is 63?
and ri is 2 per rank so you can get the first three mirrors
cunning urchin
What's a well ledger?
hearty elbow
Is it not 60 in Hell Mode?
silk anvil
@cunning urchin an inventory comprised of water, mostly
rare kayak
honestly im not sure but i swear ive seen the number 63 being thrown around
high tangle
What would be the best boons to look out for when going demeter fists? 
rare kayak
poseidon attack for sure /s
silk anvil
@cunning urchin I want to do higher heat runs, but I'm slowly grinding up all the weapons to be on the same heat level ;~;
rare kayak
screw that
crank it to perma 18 brother
actually i should crank up my heat again soon
void fjord
just level up one aspect of each weapon that u love to max, then do 32 heat
then go up
silk anvil
Yeah, I still need to do 32 heat since I put it on the back burner while I worked my way up with shield/spear/rail ;~; but ugh
hearty elbow
Levelling up one aspect of each is a general priority anyway for the Darker Thirst. Though to be fair with the darkness rebalance it's so much less necessary (ty SGG)
white swan
I've had success with demeter. Athena primary with artemis special is really fun to do as well
silk anvil
hence my request for the ability to just skip heat levels and still have it count towards completing them
If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball flying skull
void fjord
then i could get 40 titan blood ez
hearty elbow
But you can do that... You just wont' get bounty rewards for all of them
silk anvil
then i could get 40 titan blood ez
@void fjord as all things should be
rare kayak
darker thirst is still good for gems
silk anvil
But you can do that... You just wont' get bounty rewards for all of them
@hearty elbow I know, which is why I'm not doing it >:'c
void fjord
the grind is the fun part of hades i feel
rare kayak
i think mine is broken though? its been bouncing between bow and shield for the last like five runs lol
silk anvil
Yeah, it's all a part of that roguelike experience, but I think weve established I'm here for curious edgecases and punching things. I dont wanna be forced to throw my shield at stuff until it dies >:c
high tangle
Hah. But well keep hearing that the three A's are good for demeter (athena, artemis etc). But wouldnt dio dots be good too? or maybe not worth trying to get two status for mirror trait?
untold quiver
@void fjord it's a Roguelite the grind is definitely supposed to be part of the fun
hearty elbow
The grind has already been cut by like a billion
rare kayak
ok maybe not with new darkness rebalancing thats true
silk anvil
The grind has already been cut by like a billion
||>the game has an end now, so it has technically been cut by infinity||
void fjord
you only need aphro and demeter for demeter aspect
void fjord
priveliged status becomes way to op
hearty elbow
115500 for Fated Authority and 41000 for Fated Persuasion in Blood Price
dry ember
RoR2 grind is a bit masochistic if you want all unlocks
void fjord
now?
rare kayak
i think the difference between isaac grind and hades grind is more like isaac grind feels a little more tangible than hades? idk
hearty elbow
I haven't checked Authority but Persuasion is 10k
rare kayak
dont get me wrong though i still love the game to hell and back
high tangle
Hmm i see, thanks. That does make sense
rare kayak
possibly to hell again
silk anvil
Isaac grind
Isnt Isaac more of a true roguelike? No holdover perks between runs, just game knowledge.
Hades grind is def a bit long. But aren't all roguelites?
@dry ember
At least its better than Rogue Legacy
random light
What would be the best boons to look out for when going demeter fists?
@high tangle My preferred build is Aphro Attack, Artemis Special, and shoot for the Artemis/Aphro Duo that boosts crit damage against weak. I like the Hammers that give ramping base damage on consecutive hits and the one that makes your dash punch obliterate armor with +900% damage.
For survivability, just add Athena Dash™️
rare kayak
oh lord that hammer that breaks armor on dash attack is so good
hearty elbow
900 is a big boy number
dry ember
@silk anvil In the strictest sense, Isaac is a roguelite. It has permanent unlocks, as well as item unlocks. In fact I have not seen any true roguelike in my recent memory
any here 'member the old Benefit Package though?
hearty elbow
Outer Wilds?
dry ember
and the terror that was Bruiser
hearty elbow
It's not a combat game but it definitely had Roguelike vibes
rare kayak
i dont know the old benefits package
high tangle
Oh yeah, love that armor rush. But hmm I see. Thanks
rare kayak
maybe?
untold quiver
Hades grind is better than any Roguelite I've played, as a huge fan of the genre
dry ember
imagine enemies with thousands of HP
rare kayak
i dont actually like pay attention to patch notes and i dont run bp often so its possible that i actually do know the old bp
unkempt pagoda
old saviour 
hearty elbow
Bruiser Chariots... just reinstall
random light
Oh yeah, love that armor rush. But hmm I see. Thanks
@high tangle
I would also recommend Pressure Points because that boon pairs with literally everything. Basically get as much crit chance and additional crit damage as you can, smack people with the Aphro weak and then drop Demeter charged special for dummi damage.
hearty elbow
Pressure Points has some nifty synergies with Hunter's Mark too. You'll get random procs all over the place.
random light
Especially at Demeter Malphon rank 4 and 5 the multi hit multi crit chunks everything, even final boss.
Guan Yu Athena Attack is such cheese, especially if you have Rapid Spin Hammer
silk anvil
@silk anvil In the strictest sense, Isaac is a roguelite. It has permanent unlocks, as well as item unlocks. In fact I have not seen any true roguelike in my recent memory
@dry ember oh yeah, you're right, I forgot it bars off some items from chests until you find em irl or do achievements or something.
I mean, by the same logic, is FTL a roguelike as well? In the sense that tou unlock different ships? Or is it still roguelike because each campaign is technically starting the same but with a different base?
random light
Like they just can’t touch you
silk anvil
Guan Yu Athena Attack is such cheese, especially if you have Rapid Spin Hammer
@random light
Truly the way of a deflection jedi master
hearty elbow
If only spin GY builds could actually kill... anything in any reasonable amount of time
random light
I mean what I usually do for GY is I take Thanatos trinket and pray for Athena and Artemis boons
rare kayak
if only basic gy attack didnt take fifteen years to startup for eight damage
random light
And for Rapid Spin
Funny enough, I think Spear has my second highest heat rn after Bow but I just hit double digits heat so uuuuuuhhh not quite that amazing
hearty elbow
I usually start Owl Pendant and take Divine Strike just because it's fine on its own, and play it by ear. If I get Quick or Massive and I don't have TD2+ on I'll go in that direction, or if I get Charged Skewer I'll take Artemis in Asphodel
half crater
old saviour
@unkempt pagoda once running arthur i got completely hard countered by a pile of saviour numbskulls three chambers into tartarus
dry ember
@silk anvil I would classify FTL as a roguelite. But you see, the definition is unhelpful because true roguelike games are probably less than 10.
untold quiver
@silk anvil I out ftl and don't starve and atomicrops in the Roguelike not Roguelite because while you can unlock different starting modes, there is no universal "improvement" like Hades, Dead Cells, Rogue Legacy have
dry ember
I don't mind people calling Hades roguelike for that reason.
unkempt pagoda
@half crater https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76f9TJvB7Gk
high tangle
Thanks for the tips on demeter fists :D want to do better on fists, so this is great
random light
Artemis attack on GY is very fun if you can snag Athena Dash™️ and Rapid Spin + the Hammer that does the BIG spin
half crater
yup
random light
Demeter Fists is probably best Aspect for Malphon imo, although the new Aspect I hear is pretty fun
half crater
it was so hilarious i was barely even angry
untold quiver
@silk anvil the distinction is really minor and only matters to genre nerds like myself anyway lololol
proper lagoon
dry ember
@unkempt pagoda seems familiar https://streamable.com/pwnxzd
silk anvil
any here 'member the old Benefit Package though?
@dry ember
Wait, they changed benefits package? Theres a reason I didnt put it on my runs... but if its changed to be less absolute nonsense, I'll have to give it another whirl
hearty elbow
It's funny because Bow can't even stand DC1
random light
That Benefits Package YouTube video is pure monkaS
unkempt pagoda
@dry ember this is so sad lol
hearty elbow
Better yet DC1000
unkempt pagoda
It's funny because Bow can't even stand DC1
chiron: 😏
dry ember
yeah, BP is better than
hearty elbow
I've lost so many DDs to mini rats in Styx with Chiron with DC2 up lol
dry ember
you don't get "nice interactions" as the vids above
unkempt pagoda
i don't know how lol, they pierce untargeted foes
random light
I think the Pact conditions I refuse to take until I really don’t have an option are Damage Control and Routine Inspection
half crater
i mean, you gotta hand it to those numbskulls
half crater
they really know the meaning of teamwork
dry ember
It's funny because Bow can't even stand DC1
It's quite ironic because that run I was testing a way to counter DC2 with bow. You can see that was Hera with Zeus Cast and Snow Burst to get through shield. Still, "nice interaction" is too nice.
lunar stump
Does anyone know if the ||Gilgamesh's Fist's dash|| works different than the normal one? It feels a bit clunky an unresponsive to me.
silk anvil
@untold quiver and yeah, the distinction of "nothing gained from a precious run helps your next run" is what I tend to use as the defining factor.
Though with FTL for example, one could argue that unlocking the ability to do a run with a new ship technically helps you do that run with a new ship.
Though there are some slight modifications you can do to your ship before starting (side-grades maybe?) So it all depends what you want to call "a round" within the game and where it starts or ends
random light
Does anyone know if the ||Gilgamesh's Fist's dash|| works different than the normal one? It feels a bit clunky an unresponsive to me.
@lunar stump I definitely had some trouble pulling off the Dash Strike on new fist aspect compared to the other ones
hearty elbow
GIlgamesh's attack has just a hair too much lag I think
lunar stump
GIlgamesh's attack has just a hair too much lag I think
@hearty elbow It may be that, I would always try to dodge mid combo and the dash would come a bit too late.
silk anvil
@unkempt pagoda seems familiar https://streamable.com/pwnxzd
@dry ember
So this is old benefits package?
dry ember
yeah
half crater
my last gilgamesh run i died 3/4 of the way through EM4 hades' final phase, with a pretty solid merciful end build, 'cause i kept messing up the controls
unkempt pagoda
ye
hearty elbow
Does someone have a video of the friggen Snorlaxes that would spawn from old Bruiser?
half crater
dunno exactly what it is, but it messes me up lol
silk anvil
What are we looking at? Healing overshield skulls with (additional???)
hard holly
Damn
unkempt pagoda
thankfully bruiser was changed relatively soon
hard holly
EM4 Hades seems to continue his spinning laser attack even if his health for the phase depleted it
dry ember
it was changed at blood price beta i think
What are we looking at? Healing overshield skulls with (additional???)
Savior and Slugger
unkempt pagoda
savior grants a Damage Control heart to nearby enemies
savior now has a cap, but before it didn't
lunar stump
my last gilgamesh run i died 3/4 of the way through EM4 hades' final phase, with a pretty solid merciful end build, 'cause i kept messing up the controls
@half crater Same, though I died mid 2nd life bar. Hope theycheck them as they did with the bow.
hard holly
Like damn
untold quiver
I've seen him "complete" things a couple of times after being dropped to phase change
silk anvil
Yeah, I was at like 20 heat when i threw it on, it didnt take much for me to realize how badly the game would go if i kept that heat modifier on
untold quiver
Not on final though
hard holly
Because I thought it would stop if I got the phase done
half crater
@lunar stump yeah. I want to like gilgamesh so bad, but...
hearty elbow
Furry B-slaps. What's not to lvoe
untold quiver
@half crater granted it's only a 13 heat, but it's what finally got me past Em4
lunar stump
Furry B-slaps. What's not to lvoe
@hearty elbow this is gold
silk anvil
What % are maimed foes succeptable to damage?
dry ember
they ain't
silk anvil
Or is it strictly the doom tickle at the end of the timer?
half crater
pretty sure there's +% on there to begin with
turbid needle
isnt there more dmg yeah
hearty elbow
I haven't tried the Curse of Longing thing yet
dry ember
the enemies do more damage?
hearty elbow
That sounds fun, if not insanely cheesy
untold quiver
Wait, no Maim Debuffs the hammer makes it stronger
unkempt pagoda
yes they do lol
dry ember
which happened before
silk anvil
I thought the perk was
"Maim enemy. They do 300% more damage to you, but you do 15% more to them too"
hearty elbow
Seems like a good trade
untold quiver
Those aren't the numbers but yes
dry ember
wait are we talking hammer
cunning urchin
Sigh. I still can't stand EM3 at all. Such an annoying fight.
dry ember
or base 4th fists
half crater
the hammer add an additional 25%
untold quiver
Base
half crater
for a total of 50%
dry ember
I though 4th fists is a mega doom but enemies do more damage for the duration?
untold quiver
@cunning urchin EM3 is only good for the voice lines
cunning urchin
Yeah, seriously.
silk anvil
Sigh. I still can't stand EM3 at all. Such an annoying fight.
@cunning urchin
The weird thing is, I dont think its objectively harder than the base fight
Is it?
turbid needle
I think it is
unkempt pagoda
maim is both mega doom and a buff/debuff
cunning urchin
lol that's ridiculous honestly.
hearty elbow
Aspects like Hestia and Bow have issues burning base Theseus down
silk anvil
Idk, I feel like it's easier to track movements on EM3 than the base fight
untold quiver
For me it depends on where I am during the super spin
sterile comet
Maim isn't even really mega doom unless you level up the spicy gloves
Otherwise, it's just regular doom, it's like 100 damage
silk anvil
@sterile comet , yeah, its really sad. Enemies are dead before it even goes off
untold quiver
Who cares what it is when it's not leveled up
cunning urchin
I guess let me clarify that I'm talking about EM3 + FO2.
hearty elbow
But that is probably one of the only ways that EM3 is easier than base heroes
silk anvil
I guess let me clarify that I'm talking about EM3 + FO2.
@cunning urchin
FO2 is bad news bears in any case
untold quiver
That's what I use Maim for, boss fights and room clear
hearty elbow
I'm slowly getting Stockholm Syndrome for FO2 Asterius charge
sterile comet
The Claws of Enkidu honestly is me in my element because I played Vi in League of Legends as a main
And also I am a giant sumerian lore nerd
dry ember
Vi Main
hearty elbow
It's just... so janky, it puts a smile on my face each time [I eat 70 damage from it]
half crater
FO2 asterius charge is just like, completely random chance for me
sometimes i dodge it, sometimes i don't, who can say which will happen
dry ember
just iframe it 4head
unkempt pagoda
fo2 asterius feels like the return of the aimbot asterius bug
sterile comet
FO seems like obvious bad news in general
dry ember
it was definitely a feature xD
sterile comet
I can't imagine playing with it on until I have to to unlock the prophecy
half crater
FO seems like obvious bad news in general
look, i need to blame my losses on something
hearty elbow
The general argument is that it's one of the hardest pacts, but you kind of have to play with it early to get used to it, since it changes the timings for everything
unkempt pagoda
FO1 should be one of the first you play with, imo
silk anvil
It's the one modifier I avoid like the plague; until zag can charge a shot faster than the speed of light, I'll prefer to not have my face munched off by skeletons
Doesnt FO also increase enemy projectile speed? Or is my memory off?
wack
half crater
it certainly feels like it
dry ember
playing point blank bow on FO2 is just constant limit testing
hearty elbow
Lol, but landing Blood Price Rama Power Shot with Explosve in FO2 Dad felt like an achievement in its own right.
(I died that attempt)
thorn jolt
FO1 decreases spawn time too
dry ember
I know I can't hit this power shot but I am doing it anyway
half crater
i'm pretty sure i literally never did a power shot on rama pre 1.0
silk anvil
playing point blank bow on FO2 is just constant limit testing
@dry ember
The limit of how high a throw out a windoe can my computer survive
it actually makes Plume runs easier
@thorn jolt
inb4 plume countdown is faster too
untold quiver
@thorn jolt yeah if you plan on using the plume FO1 is free heat really
chrome geyser
it does increase projectile speed
dry ember
Dash-Nova is so janky
Somewhere in the Underworld, Snap Nova sheds a tear of happiness
half crater
rip snap-nova
proper lagoon
first aspect spear is lots of fun
dry ember
you won't be missed
proper lagoon
hitting mobs off screen
unkempt pagoda
dash nova is great 🤧
half crater
now i only have cursed slash and hoarding slash when i want to meme
thorn jolt
gtfo snap nova
unkempt pagoda
love it on pos sword
half crater
and they can't hold a candle to snap
sterile comet
I kind of want to ask what the penalty is for failing Tight Deadline is
hearty elbow
RIP Dramamine stock prices
sterile comet
But I also don't want to spoil it
untold quiver
Omg I loved snap nove on Pblade
dry ember
it doesn't kill you outright
silk anvil
@sterile comet test it out, you're bound to have it happen eventuallt
dry ember
that all ill say
half crater
I kind of want to ask what the penalty is for failing Tight Deadline is
i'm sure it's just a warning
prolly they're very lenient
sterile comet
@dry ember That was what I was hoping.
If it doesn't kill you, and instead makes you suffer
that is far more interesting.
hearty elbow
You have a permanent 5/sec DoT
dry ember
bruh
silk anvil
Dionysus comes down and gives you a lecture about the importance of being pubctual
untold quiver
Why not both?
dry ember
I feel like Dio is the guy who is always late to things
sterile comet
Dionysus comes down and gives you a lecture
half crater
dio was gonna give you a lecture on punctuality, but he was late
silk anvil
play Animal Crossing and get a visit by Resseti, 30 minute unskippable lecture about saving before quitting
sterile comet
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hard holly
I regret picking Dash Nova
silk anvil
Dash-Nova is so janky
@hard holly
Also, could someone explain this to me? I am old and feeble and not with the times 👴
sterile comet
Dash Nova sounds like the name of a Brony's OC
dry ember
Basically when you hit Specical, you don't Special in place, you special forward
hard holly
Yeah, and its a fixed distance
half crater
i should prolly actually try it at some point 😛
sterile comet
Heightened Security seems like free heat UNLESS you get Alecto
If you get Alecto with Heightened Security, you're hosed.
unkempt pagoda
dash nova is great for safely getting casts back, using pos sword
hearty elbow
Why Alecto?
untold quiver
I like it for Pblade, but I liked snap too
untold quiver
The blade rifts
half crater
does heightened security make the traps do more damage to alecto
man that would awesome
unkempt pagoda
hades pots count as traps
half crater
... patroclus?
sterile comet
Apparently Proxy does better with that particular test than Dyno does
unkempt pagoda
proxy's getting a work out
sterile comet
I'm impressed.
silk anvil
Was dash nova removed?
hearty elbow
We need some bars of soap up in here
half crater
patroclus existing makes me stick with so many runs i should just drop lol
unkempt pagoda
snap nova was replaced with dash nova, dash nova exists right now
silk anvil
curses the wiki silently off in the distance
hearty elbow
I find my best play is when I'm at 10 life with no DDs because of terrible decisions and greedy boon picks that didn't pan out, but I really really want to get the 15th Titan Blood and I don't want to convert any Ambrosia
sterile comet
Like, Theseus is the actual mvp of Hades' realm
half crater
Like, Theseus is the actual mvp of Hades' realm
ugh, please don't tell him that
silk anvil
Shields are OP, there I said it
if only I were patient enough to use the 98% blocking they provide
unkempt pagoda
he tells himself that already
sterile comet
Look, Theseus is kind of a bummer, but at the end of the day, the guy kind of lives up to his own hype. He's not like, the Captain-America Superman Combo guy from The Boys or anything.
He's just like
Superman, but clueless. He doesn't know that he's a pawn in somebody else's game and he's doing his best.
silk anvil
that well may be, but he doesnt have to be a jerk about it
half crater
honestly asterius usually gives me more trouble
sterile comet
Asterius likes him, and I like Asterius, so by the transitive property of liking people, I also like Theseus.
half crater
give asterius a spear, and get the gods to help him out, and he can do both their jobs easy
main osprey
Ehhhh
hearty elbow
Asterius is more troublesome with EM3, but Theseus has this bad habit of randomly eradicating your Acorn while laughing maniacally
limber flax
what god should i prioritize on sword
dry ember
I just love the spartan like image
main osprey
I don't agree with that transitive property. I've seen it fail irl too many times
unkempt pagoda
which sword
silk anvil
Asterius is more troublesome with EM3, but Theseus has this bad habit of randomly eradicating your Acorn while laughing maniacally
@hearty elbow
You use acorn?
unkempt pagoda
ah
sterile comet
Man, don't like anything to do with Spartans, Spartans are bleeding terrible
hearty elbow
I'm part of the God > God > Acorn > Acorn gang
dry ember
@hearty elbow rise up
sterile comet
Do I need to break out the Acoup.blog links
untold quiver
Theseus is that sports star or actor who was amazing, bought to much into their own hype, and can't deal with the fact that he's not tebtops anymore
dry ember
God x2 Acorn x2 gang
unkempt pagoda
god/god/acorn/spearpoint gang wya
dry ember
crickets
main osprey
I'm God -> God -> Literally Anything -> Acorn/Spear/Egg
unkempt pagoda
half crater
Asterius is more troublesome with EM3, but Theseus has this bad habit of randomly eradicating your Acorn while laughing maniacally
@hearty elbow especially EM3 FO2, which is what i'm usually running
i live with the hope i'll eventually master that fight
unkempt pagoda
i'm turning em4 into a regular part of my gameplay loop, i need spearpoint
half crater
i wanna do that but i'm bad
hearty elbow
If you're playing on PC it's worth keeping a temp save of the room to grind out the fight
half crater
only beat it once
ebon tinsel
why would u ever take spear over acorn?
dry ember
poison
sterile comet
I will get there eventually