After I realised "God I cannot imagine a more boring way to play Hades"
#h1-builds-and-combat
hard holly
reef galleon
you are too powerful
half crater
if you’re bored, use more heat
vernal seal
base shield gotta be the worst one of all the base weapons
hard holly
The heat wasnt the issue
The playstyle of
"Just fire the special and forget about it"
Is the issue
Zeus is marginally better
hybrid wave
rail shotgun special + rail rocket special + demeter special boon = 800 damage and hella slow before crits lolol
that was fun
hard holly
Because you get to keep attacking while the special is out
cunning urchin
I always thought Chaos Aspect was awfully boring.
cunning urchin
I hope the changes made it actually fun.
hard holly
Anyway Ill probably look into making it possible to blacklist hammers
vernal seal
seriously just slap some heat on it
hard holly
More heat is fun if you have to actively play to avoid things, but with shield special you just go away from the enemies, fire it, and just waste some time waiting for it to return
No amount of heat can make it fun
half crater
tight deadline makes run away and yeet shields hopefully a less valid tactic
forces you to be more strategic
but honestly it took a while for me to start to see the appeal of chaos as well
hard holly
Its still a case of "youre safe and you dont even have to aim anything"
Its like hunting bladerifts without the appeal of "4 digit numbers"
vernal seal
it's personal preference i think
bronze sorrel
Can we move on....
half crater
at first i just used it ‘cause it let me push heat numbers higher, but once you get into it there’s a certain rhythm to it that’s kinda fun
and there’s nuances you don’t notice at first
hard holly
Anyway, some of the upgrades dont even make sense for special
half crater
but yeah, as i said: each to their own
hard holly
Charge for more damage ... except the base damage is so low that that doesnt do much
Hit special for more damage on attacks ... except if youre using special you dont want to attack, and if you want to attack you dont want to use special
vernal seal
by that logic Rama is the same
hard holly
The dash one at least makes stuff faster
vernal seal
you never use anything but special really
hard holly
Thats ... not how I use Rama?
bronze sorrel
This is the hollow earth theory of hades arguments I swear... 
hard holly
Can you even use Rama that way, I thought the special barely did any damage
reef galleon
you can spam it a lot. Works better than other bow aspects' specials
hard holly
I mean, it was fast, but its 15 damage per special, isnt it
I guess if you get specifically relentless volley you can do something with that
bronze sorrel
Also its spaced enough to work for thunder flourish if I remember correctly
hard holly
You cant reroll hammers with authority, can you?
vernal seal
nope
bronze sorrel
You cannot
hard holly
That is unfortunate
bronze sorrel
Devs wanted people to experiment and experience some variety. This is a Rogue-lyte after all.
vernal seal
what do you guys think about EM4
hard holly
Hm, seems like blacklisting hammers should be pretty doable, you already have upgrades that cancel each other out
Fun
But quite difficult
The one complaint I have is with the first phase, ironically
vernal seal
I find it kinda fun but also limiting my playstyle
phase 1 is super difficult I do agree
hard holly
The minibosses he spawns instead of regular shades are a major problem
Both doomstone which just blocks up the entire screen
But also the fact that they can do his invisibility thing
vernal seal
but on the other hand Call is much needed now
hard holly
Id nerf the doomstone and remove the invisibility thing, and then his first phase is nice
Invisibility for his summons specifically
vernal seal
they should nerf every minibosses' hp I think
killing hades is actually faster than killing a miniboss
hard holly
I think their HP is fine, tbh?
bronze sorrel
killing hades is actually faster than killing a miniboss
@vernal seal
What? This is very much not my experience.
bronze sorrel
I play with those on too. Still not my experience
bronze sorrel
Either you are way better than me at beating hades or doing something terribly wrong vs minibosses
Either is entirely possible I'm willing to admit
vernal seal
I am talking about after hades summons minibosses then it's faster to kill him than to go for the minibosses
bronze sorrel
Oh, those aren't what I call minibosses lol
vernal seal
but they are
bronze sorrel
Erm
vernal seal
EM4
hard holly
EM4 Hades summons minibosses instead of regular shades, yeah
bronze sorrel
Oh, ok, I haven't had time to unlock that yet
vernal seal
you are in for a not so pleasant surprise then
bronze sorrel
Thats fun lol
hard holly
The one thing I find funny about EM4 Hades
raw blade
I do find styx harder than hades sometimes purely bc of the poison
bronze sorrel
Can you get Asterius?
hard holly
||He uses the attack from Achilles aspect, but not his own||
vernal seal
no asterius is not considered a miniboss
bronze sorrel
What about tiny vermin lol?
vernal seal
also that thing
what kind of sick ppl would put asterius and tiny vermin in the same room with hades?
stoic thicket
Tiny Vermin is a living terror. I fear no man... but that thing? It scares me.
sleek trail
does pierced butterfly reset when getting hit?
bronze sorrel
IDK I almost prefer tiny vermin to the normal mob end rooms in styx
stoic thicket
It doesn't reset but you just don't get a ping for that chamber.
vernal seal
the normal mob end rooms are actually harder than the elite rooms
hybrid wave
quick q: does the 2nd fist aspect work on bosses? ||the pull and/or the debuff||
bronze sorrel
They really are, its a nightmare
vernal seal
no pull
hybrid wave
ah ok - debuff though?
vernal seal
ofc it works
hard holly
Wait
vernal seal
why not though
hybrid wave
sweet
hard holly
You can now longer combine sudden rush and perfect rush?
bold bear
What do you guys recommend as the first aspect to upgrade? So far, I've really loved power shot shield and hazard bomb exagryph 
vernal seal
depends on your playstyle
bold bear
I like the big deeps
bronze sorrel
What weapon do you like?
vernal seal
up the sword's hidden aspect for some manly numbers
bold bear
I like Exagryph and shield most so far. Fists and sword least.
vernal seal
shield is not exactly dps tho?
bold bear
Well, my two wins so far have been with Artemis special hazard bomb
And artemis attack power shot shield
Both give 1000+ damage numbers
bronze sorrel
Shield can get good DPS
hard holly
Wait
Why was the fact that you can no longer combine sudden and perfect rush not in the patchnotes?
vernal seal
it's more like a burst weapon no?
hard holly
Both?
bold bear
Shield with power shot is amaaaaazing
bold bear
It's what bow wishes it would be
bronze sorrel
What do you guys recommend as the first aspect to upgrade? So far, I've really loved power shot shield and hazard bomb exagryph :rooAYAYA:
@bold bear
Do you have everything unlocked and just wondering what to upgrade or do you still need to unlock aspects? Cause if the latter we wouldn't be recommending hidden aspects since they aren't available
bold bear
I don't have any hidden aspects unlocked, and I'm not sure how to unlock them.
hard holly
But not the other way around?
vernal seal
hmm so no spoilers
bold bear
You can spoil, it's fine
bold bear
If I need to do any particular upgrades to unlock certain hidden aspects, for instance.
bronze sorrel
I don't have any hidden aspects unlocked, and I'm not sure how to unlock them.
@bold bear
Have you tried Zeus aspect yet?
hard holly
I wish there were comments in the code so I could figure it out more precisely
But yeah it seems like sudden rush disables minotaur rush
vernal seal
most of the time you only need lv 2/lv3 weapon for lower heat anyway
bold bear
Uhh, a few patches ago. I could try that, yeah.
lilac geode
i just got myself the zeus aspect and beat the game on my first try with it
hard holly
But minotaur rush does not disable sudden rush
lilac geode
zeus aspect + zeus boons = good, whoddathunkit
still had more trouble than going the simple regular bow + ares route
bronze sorrel
You can mix Zeus aspect with alot of stuff pretty well
vernal seal
zeus is kinda bad at scaling tho
bold bear
Zeus aspect it is Should I go all out on upgrading it, or is low-level zeus valuable, too?
lilac geode
whoops
vernal seal
i think lv3 is good enough
bronze sorrel
Eris is also great for DPS if you want to go Rail
lilac geode
no clue, i unlocked it and went straight to level 4... but most of my damage came from zeus boons that proc on each tick, not the shield itself
vernal seal
but zeus aspect is kinda weird ..
yeah the dmg will come from the boon
zeus' special is weak even at max level
lilac geode
i liked zeus aspect but i was on heat1... i can see how it wouldn't stand toe to toe to the real op combos
vernal seal
i have never touched zeus on higher heat
bronze sorrel
For me its perfect. I have good micro but can't aim.
covert hatch
Alright, just got the Hidden Fists, what do I kit out these bad boys with
vernal seal
it's fun for sure but the dmg is way too low
I played 20 runs and havent got the hidden aspect of the fist?
it's so weird
lilac geode
how do even unlock those aspects?
stoic thicket
Hidden Fists I've really come to enjoy with something with some smorc on the attack (Aphro, Demeter or something) + Ares Special.
bronze sorrel
Damage is actually pretty great. Get explosive return on it and then if you micro well its 60/tick
But you have to micro well
vernal seal
yea exactly
covert hatch
Ares did immediately come to mind for the dash upper, yeah
vernal seal
it's kinda hard to micro when you have 100 projectiles firing at you tho
that's why I couldn't play it on high heat
ebon tinsel
opinions on hera bow vs poseidon sword for cast build? which is better and what is preffered w regard to stygian soul or infernal soul
limber pine
You can try Beowulf Shield for cast build
stoic thicket
Also something I didn't realize the first time: Curse of Longing apparently also works on the hidden fist dash upper.
lilac geode
why ares for the dash upper?
bronze sorrel
Ares did immediately come to mind for the dash upper, yeah
@covert hatch
I actually didn't like building around dash upper. I'd focus on getting a really strong dash boon foremost
vernal seal
you never go stygian on poseidon
ebon tinsel
oh yes i forgot beowolf shield, im a way away from unlocking that tho
bronze sorrel
Like try Athena or Poseidon
covert hatch
Huh, interesting
bronze sorrel
You can get like 8 dashes or something insane like that
lilac geode
wait whats stygian soul?
bronze sorrel
Oof
stoic thicket
why ares for the dash upper?
@lilac geode Because the Hidden Fist dash upper does something very similar to Ares anyway, so they kinda just naturally stack on each other.
raw blade
I just beat it with aspect of demeter fists + demeter/aphrodite special/attack and wow that's a powerful combo
covert hatch
I had to chew through all of that character's dialogue and I was super far behind lol
vernal seal
I found out that you actually can somehow choose to face either Asterius or the butterfly boss
never knew this was a thing
sleek trail
It doesn't reset but you just don't get a ping for that chamber.
@stoic thicket thx. would you recommend pierced butterfly or lambent plume?
stoic thicket
As personally I am too dumb to not get hit I run the plume if I pick one of them.
sleek trail
thank you
bronze sorrel
So here's the thing with Ares on the new HA. Maim resolved much slower than doom, so it doesn't really make that much sense to go for merciful end on there, esp with the nerfs. Curse of Pain seems fine on there but I wouldn't make a build around it.
sleek trail
oh it caps @ 20? didn't know that
sleek trail
gotcha
stoic thicket
I don't gun for ME on the new Fists. Curse of Longing is generally what I'm after.
bronze sorrel
Maybe with curse of longing, idk
limber pine
I got it to 26% evasion when I took it at the start
vernal seal
you can always get more, here I say reliable
stoic thicket
Because as I found out today Curse of Longing also refreshes Maim, and that means I need to apply it once and be good for the damage boost for a long while.
limber pine
yeah it's crazy good
vernal seal
personally I rarely get any butterfly stack in elysium
bronze sorrel
Because as I found out today Curse of Longing also refreshes Maim, and that means I need to apply it once and be good for the damage boost for a long while.
@stoic thicket
Wait really? Does it reduce the damage like with doom?
stoic thicket
Couldn't tell, I only noticed it on dad.
I think so because it fell off at some point.
But in that chaos I didn't fully pay attention.
bronze sorrel
I'll also admit I'm a little scared to apply maim
stoic thicket
I had that hammer that gave another +25% damage boost, with that it was a no-brainer.
bronze sorrel
That 50% damage boost. Yikes
stoic thicket
Also low heat run >_>
Don't know if I'd pull that stuff on 20+.
I guess it's manageable unless you go full Hard Labor, then it becomes terrifying.
bronze sorrel
I think my big play is gonna be going for Tidal Dash and Sweet Nectar. Hopefully pick up Heartbreak Strike and Curse of Pain for Curse of Longing too, but thats secondary goals to getting a 15 pom tidal Dash :p
Just dash all the time
stoic thicket
I'm always surprised how good Splash Dash is whenever I pick it up. It does a ton of damage for just being a dash.
Haelian had a dash-only Splash Dash run once, IIRC.
hard holly
Do we have a full list of hammer upgrades somewhere?
hard holly
The wiki appears to be incomplete
Either that or I dont quite understand their code yet
bronze sorrel
Might not have things from the current patch
hard holly
Well for example the shield one references "World Smasher"
Under Minotaur Rush
But that upgrade isnt in the list
Ah, it was cut
bronze sorrel
Huh... Not sure what that is
hard holly
I see
bronze sorrel
Oh well, in that case maybe everything should say "cannot be combined with world smasher" lol
hard holly
Hm
That explains a few things though
But Im still not sure I understand when and why they prevented the combination of sudden rush and minotaur rush
bronze sorrel
Btw, if you don't want to go through the work of making a mod, I think there's one for allowing you to predetermine seeds.
So you could just find a seed with the hammers you want in the first room
hard holly
Eh
I like the randomness of when I get it and if I can get it
I just want to ensure that some of the bad options can be removed
bronze sorrel
With the build you put together and the way you played it.
hard holly
The other one, the one that increases base damage on throw seems pointless because the damage on that is too low anyway, and even in the builds you described, it seems you rely on it applying special effects, rather than its base damage
The build I have is pretty much optimal for the throw empower trait
Thats the issue
And the way I played it is I tried to use it for a while
But pretty quickly realised it was worse than just not using it
bronze sorrel
Not every hammer is good on every build
hard holly
Well aware
The build I had was optimal for this hammer
You want a build that attacks a lot and hard
bronze sorrel
Sometimes you get junk, but it might not be junk elsewhere
hard holly
Since thats what it empowers
The problem is
Since thats the case anyway
You just dont want to use special and lock yourself out of those hardhitting attacks
bronze sorrel
Beowulf is like 40 base damage on special. So that goes pretty good with charged shot
hard holly
Well again
Not playing Beowulf
I can just blacklist the hammers when theyre useless
And un-blacklist them if theyre good
bronze sorrel
I mean part of the fun is not being able to get an optimal build every time and working with what you have
hard holly
True, thats why Im not going for pre-determined seed
bronze sorrel
Some builds none of the hammers are good lol (pure cast builds)
hard holly
But there isnt anything fun about getting a hammer, and seeing 3 useless options
When you really wanted something good
bronze sorrel
I mean, the fun is having to improvise a new strategy.
cunning urchin
Fun is subjective.
hard holly
I dont improvise a new strategy in that case
I just play with only 1 hammer
And hope to reroll it into something good later
bronze sorrel
I will say, some of the hammers are a bit unfortunate mechanically on everything. Like double nova 
cunning urchin
If you've found a solution for yourself, that's good.
Double Nova is pretty great.
hard holly
Anyway I really should try and figure out their code
Both to try and make a mod, but also to figure out if I can remove the exception between hammers
bronze sorrel
I find I'm cancelling the second hit most of the time
cunning urchin
There's a Hades modding server on Discord. I imagine they can help you out there.
bronze sorrel
Idk, maybe just need to get good with it
cunning urchin
Heartbreak Strike, Drunken Flourish, pew pew pew.
bronze sorrel
Doesn't thunder flourish work there too or am I mistaken?
pseudo kiln
Is drunken flourish the dual?
bronze sorrel
I can't remember if its spaced enough to not hit the cooldown for lightning
hard holly
Hm
Ok this should work
I think I can now get Sudden Rush and Minotaur Rush again
Not sure why it was removed
Or why they didnt say it was removed
cunning urchin
Maybe F10 it.
bronze sorrel
Ya, if its not in the patch notes it might be an error
hard holly
Its been that way for a few months apparently
So Im inclined to assume that it is not an error
cunning urchin
It's not necessarily something you'd catch while playing, so if no one had any reason to look at that line of code . . .
Doesn't hurt to F10, anyway.
rose iron
So weird thing: That bug I found with Fiery Presence only seems to apply to Skelly.
Seems to work fine in runs.
bronze sorrel
Whats the bug?
cunning urchin
@bronze sorrel Rama Volley always did just 1 hit of Thunder Flourish.
Unless you hit multiple targets.
Which is still good.
bronze sorrel
@bronze sorrel Rama Volley always did just 1 hit of Thunder Flourish.
@cunning urchin
Oh that's a bummer, probably would be op though
hard holly
Just the attack alone
cunning urchin
Could you spoiler-tag new content, please?
rose iron
@bronze sorrel On Skelly, you only do 50% bonus damage using Fiery Presence instead of the full 100%.
hard holly
Whoops
rose iron
In runs, you do the full 100% tho.
hard holly
Was the spoiler policy for this channel changed?
cunning urchin
Nah, just new content should always be spoiler-tagged when a new update is out. That's not a new policy.
hard holly
Used to be the lore and gameplay threads were entirely unmarked with spoilers, but Ill keep it in mind
Anyway it seems that hammer combinations that exclude each other just dont get mentioned in the patch notes
bronze sorrel
Ya, I do find it weird when lore channels require spoiler tags. I mean the whole point is your there for the lore, presumably your already devouring wikis at that point.
But oh well
bronze sorrel
Thats rough jm
ornate remnant
christ wtf
cunning urchin
@pseudo kiln the Duo Boon is probably not necessary. Heartbreak Strike and Drunken Flourish alone can do a lot of work. But if you want, you can get Thunder Flourish instead, get a good Call like Dionysus' Aid, and aim for Smoldering Air.
ornate remnant
fists
idk my current attack is 125% i dunno if the 40 damage from sea storm will make up the difference or not
bronze sorrel
Doesn't that trigger the lightning cooldown then?
cunning urchin
Get Tempest Strike if you have their Duo.
cunning urchin
The cooldown only applies to Thunder Flourish, as far as I know.
vernal iron
best aspect for stygius?
ornate remnant
level 1 demeter
bronze sorrel
Oh really? I thought it was everything but the call lol
hard holly
Its probably worth it then if it doesnt have a cooldown
Their attack is 15, so 40% is like, 6 damage
Vs 40
cunning urchin
Yeah.
vernal iron
also how to reveal new aspects??
bronze sorrel
Ya definitely worth then
prisma raven
i just tried to use a chaos curse to kill myself and heal back up to 80% with kiss of styx dark and learned you cannot die that way. proceeded to immediately die to elysium boss
bronze sorrel
Thats like having a low tier zeus call 24/7
I'm gonna have to try Sea Storm on Zag rail now....
hard holly
Probably too inconsistent and not worth it vs trying to get the legendary
Also why not Lucifer
cunning urchin
I tried to make Tempest Strike work on Malphon at high heat this summer, and it was so bad lol.
Just a little project to see if I could solve it.
cunning urchin
The damage is trash.
hard holly
Ok it seems that there are a few hammer combinations that are impossible for balance reasons
Except in all of those cases, much stronger combinations are possible
cunning urchin
It gets better with Sea Storm, but you could have had Merciful End instead at that point . . .
bronze sorrel
Oh true
hard holly
I mean, with merciful end, dont you have to alternate?
cunning urchin
No, you just Dash-Strike.
hard holly
So dash, attack, dash, attack etc., right?
Thats what I meant
Because that seems to still be slower than just holding down attack
Oh wait
Merciful end does the doom damage + 50?
hard holly
I see
bronze sorrel
Yeah I got no idea why its been removed
@hard holly
Well there's only one thing to do then. Become a speed runner and compete on Hermes Cup so you can hang out with Amir and tell him how the game should be. :P
turbid needle
I have 5 upgrades on 5 different weapons and have the fated list but I'm not getting the aspect of guan yu
hard holly
Like, removing exclusions between hammers is really easy
To the point where it barely counts as modding
bronze sorrel
Or I dont do that because Ill just get burnt out quickly
@hard holly
HA! Hermes puns
turbid halo
If you use Talos fists and pull an enemy, does it count for poseidon's boon that gives a secondary explosion on wall slam?
cunning urchin
That's not knockback, so no.
cunning urchin
Oh.
hard holly
Like legitimately all you have to do is go into a file, and remove part of one line
And youre done
turbid halo
The pull has some crazy range and I keep pulling them into things
cunning urchin
You meant wall slams. Well, wall slams are wall slams. Should work, but I haven't tested it.
turbid halo
Will have to try that
cunning urchin
Try it and report back to us. 
hard holly
Blacklisting is probably gonna be trickier
cunning urchin
@hard holly you should try it with one of those 0s for Hades's HP.
hard holly
Wdym?
cunning urchin
1700 sounds like a good number.
cunning urchin
Much better than 17000.
hard holly
See ignoring that that would be too easy
The issue there is that I dont know where his data is kept
Oh wait, found it
regal edge
wait if you replace a boon it keeps your poms??
hard holly
Yes
regal edge
wow i totally didnt realize that LOL
bronze sorrel
Blacklisting is probably gonna be trickier
@hard holly
Honestly, this is probably a convo for a different channel. This isn't a modding channel.
regal edge
i never paid attention to whether it kept pom levels smh wow lol
hard holly
I wish we had the option to increase damage to +500% again
That was my favourite heat option
cunning urchin
Since you've found his data, add some 0s for that Final Fantasy secret boss battle experience.
1,700,000 HP Hades fight.
bronze sorrel
Anyone else think they should change Minotaur Rush so that Zag puts his head down and chases enemies around until he runs into a wall?
cunning urchin
That's the Ultima Hades boss.
turbid halo
I'm gonna force poseidon to test the pull and if it works i'll actually consider making that my go-to
cunning urchin
You can add CP2 for the Omega Hades boss fight.
bronze sorrel
Make it so that if a skull hits you your tight deadline loses 5 minutes instantly. :P
cunning urchin
@bronze sorrel nobody thinks that. It's just you.
Making fun of poor defenseless Asterius.
bronze sorrel
@bronze sorrel nobody thinks that. It's just you.
@cunning urchin
Ya I figured
hard holly
Oh
hard holly
I could restore the old hp values of boss 3
acoustic venture
I'm still at low heat levels but bumping up to EM3 and really struggling with it after having the regular fight down solid
dry ember
You get used to it
acoustic venture
losing atleast 1 death defy every time, usually two, any tips or tricks regarding the fight itself?
hard holly
Well other than focusing Asterius
dry ember
Nowadays I'm tempted to do Theseus first
bronze sorrel
I still think it'd be hilarious to watch Zagreus chase Asterius around a room and crash into a wall
dry ember
For EM3
hard holly
Dodge behind pillars when he does his charge
bronze sorrel
The true Minotaur Rush
dry ember
You can knock him down quite fast, then burst the second phase with companion
acoustic venture
the jump shockwave is honestly whats chunking me down the most I think
hard holly
When he does his regular swing, dash behind, then fire a couple times, before dashing to dodge his leap
turbid needle
do i need to buy guan yu to get excalibur
turbid needle
or do i just to have it as a option then talk to nyx
acoustic venture
tbh I usually dodge towards it and am probably mistiming it getting caught right in it
turbid needle
@dry ember im gonna be poor on titans blood
dry ember
Such is life
bronze sorrel
You should always take out Theseus first just to shut him up.
acoustic venture
do most people do away from Asterius or dodge into shockwave
hard holly
Away, I think?
bronze sorrel
Depends on weapon I think
cunning urchin
I deflect the ground pound with Divine Dash, then the shockwave can't hurt me.
Unless I don't have Divine Dash, of course, but it's easy to get every time unless you're on high heat.
acoustic venture
divine dash is literally the best dash in game
bronze sorrel
If Divine dash did 1 damage +1 per boon level, would yall still pick it every time? I would
dry ember
Lol if Divine Dash does 0 damage I would pick it
cunning urchin
It could do 0 damage and be top tier.
hard holly
I prefer Artemis dash tbh
dry ember
Yeah Hunte Dash is def up there
bronze sorrel
But then what would poms and rarity do on it 
cunning urchin
I'd probably still take if it hurt me for 1HP for every Dash lol.
dry ember
Flood Shot is solid
bronze sorrel
Hahaha, have it deal 10 damage per dash and you can reduce the damage with poms
dry ember
But yeah, I don't like the knockback mechanic
bronze sorrel
I used to hate on Poseidon but he's gotten some really excellent duos anf his dash is great
cunning urchin
Not by high heat players. He has potentially the best Call in the game, great Dash, great Cast, great passives. You don't take him for Tempest Strike or Tempest Flourish.
acoustic venture
I had a DUMB Exagryph run with a Heroic Lightning Strike
hard holly
Yeah his cast is decent
acoustic venture
- Pom Petal
hard holly
I just prefer Athena or Ares
bronze sorrel
Tempest Flourish is at least solid damage scaling if nothing else
acoustic venture
I still dont get Hunter Dash ngl
cunning urchin
Yeah, but it has the same problem other +% specials have: it's not Heartbreak Flourish or Deadly Flourish.
dry ember
It's good on dash strike weapons
hard holly
Wait
dry ember
Which is 4.5/6
bronze sorrel
Like I'd pick Heartbreak Flourish over tempest every time but you don't always get your pick
hard holly
Does its scaling change?
Because I thought for each of them Poms increase it by the same %
dry ember
Hunter Dash? Yeah it got nerf
bronze sorrel
Its equal scaling with Athena I think
cunning urchin
Pom bonus is not affected by rarity.
bronze sorrel
But doesn't deflect so obviously inferior
acoustic venture
I feel like Artemis' best offering is support fire
bronze sorrel
Depends on the weapon. Support fire on Arthur is not so great.
acoustic venture
my knowledge is super baseline, but I'm not sure why you'd take any of her active abilities over heartbreak or lightning
yeahhhhhh
hard holly
Hm
acoustic venture
same on Beowulf
cunning urchin
His Special, yeah. So he gets more from poms.
hard holly
Hunter Dash is her best trait
Support Fire is very good on fast-attacking weapons
Her attack and special are actually also viable options
Still not as good as Aphrodite
Honestly, they should just standardise the % between Aphro, Athena, Poseidon and Demeter
cunning urchin
Deadly Strike beats Heartbreak Strike in DPS once you add Hunter Dash, Strike boons from Master Chaos, t2 crit boons, . . .
Same for Flourish.
bronze sorrel
Honestly, they should just standardise the % between Aphro, Athena, Poseidon and Demeter
@hard holly
Erm, that wouldn't be balanced.
hard holly
Yeah thats why Artemis can be quite nice
Eh, wouldnt it?
Cuz right now its not balanced for sure
I never pick any of the others over Aphrodite if I can help it
bronze sorrel
Oh I agree Aphrodite is a bit high
upper salmon
Aphro has good damage because weak is meh
bronze sorrel
But like, if they all did the same, would you not pick Demeter and Athena all the time?
cunning urchin
Weak is amazing.
hard holly
Id probably gravitate to Athena a fair amount
But Id pick Demeter and Aphrodite sometimes as well
Poseidon ... maybe
stiff jacinth
Is it just me, or are the results of pumping blood into certain aspects kind of underwhelming?
The hidden Sword aspect, for instance.
bronze sorrel
I never say no to more damage reduction myself
cunning urchin
If they were all even in damage, high heat meta would just be Divine Strike on everything.
bronze sorrel
Ultimately your eventually gonna just be drowning in unused titan blood anyway though, so /shrug
sage solar
whats nemesis
acoustic venture
I'd actually say Arthur has one of the best blood pump rewards
stiff jacinth
I'm not even close to there yet.
bronze sorrel
You will be.
stiff jacinth
Oh, so I can just out and say it in this channel? 🙂
hard holly
I imagine the meta uses the same trait anyway
stiff jacinth
Good to know.
hard holly
Or god, rather
hard holly
Spear is good even without guan yu
acoustic venture
Oh I just mean best aspects to put blood into
hard holly
Oh
bronze sorrel
I think anything but ||Gilgamesh|| is fair game here as far as aspects
acoustic venture
Guan Yu and Naegling both benefit the most from it imo
I'm not clickin it but im assuming its the new fists aspect
which yeah I havent unlocked yet
cunning urchin
There's actually a lot of variety in high heat meta.
sage solar
is there a way i can remove my titan blood from one weapon
cunning urchin
Except obviously Divine Dash is the most common dash.
random crest
I'm actually curious what high heat players think about the Chaos shield changes
Random question I know but mentioning high heat and changes to weapons reminded me of that
upper salmon
seems to be universally mourned
cunning urchin
I'm happy about any changes to it because I thought it was awfully boring to play.
bronze sorrel
Would yall still take divine dash if it added between 1-4 heat randomly depending on rarity?
hard holly
No
bronze sorrel
Like common gives you 4 heat
random crest
I'd definitely agree that it deserved a nerf, I'm just sad that it feels so much worse to use
hard holly
Too big of a risk of an unfun pact
cunning urchin
Also if it's a nerf, it nerfs my competition because Haelian mains Chaos Aspect. 
random crest
I mainly just call it a nerf cause it feels like it killed Chaos's AOE by a lot
dry ember
also 1,000,000 copies sold for Hades
sage solar
PogU
random crest
Good
I am still sad that it feels so much worse, but then Beowulf now exists and is really fun, so
acoustic venture
wait
hard holly
For some reason I cant seem to unlock Beowulf
acoustic venture
Chaos shield bad now?
random crest
They changed how it's extra shields work completely
cunning urchin
I doubt it's "bad".
acoustic venture
yeah they no longer track
random crest
I wouldn't really say it's bad, it just is very different and I don't like how it plays now
cunning urchin
At worst it's not top 2 anymore.
hard holly
Wait, whats the point if they dont track?
random crest
Basically. It still can shotgun people up close but it just doesn't have the AOE it did
acoustic venture
also the catch Daedalus augment doesnt proc with it
random crest
Also don't think the extra shields bounce anymore either which is why the AOE feels nonexistant compared to before
cunning urchin
Probably still top tier for high heat, anyway.
random crest
Yea its definitely not bad, even still
cunning urchin
Because it's still a shield with a shotgun lol.
acoustic venture
there is no way to view boons ingame outside of Fated List is there?
hard holly
But doesnt the shotgun do less damage than just bullcharging again?
cunning urchin
Probably not less damage.
lapis pilot
i don't get the love for guan yu
random crest
It still does the same damage, the numbers weren't touched from what I can tell
cunning urchin
You can view boons in the Codex.
random crest
It's the way that the extra shields function that got changed
hard holly
Right but my understanding was that the AoE and safety was why Chaos was good
acoustic venture
whoops not boons
hard holly
While its damage wasnt
acoustic venture
Hammer Augments
lapis pilot
are people just using a particular setup to just tank things?
and constantly leeching health
ebon tinsel
any chance theyll revert it
cunning urchin
@lapis pilot either you take Divine Strike and just stay within the spin that deflects everything for you, or you just spam your Special with Heartbreak Flourish or Deadly Flourish.
That's Guan Yu meta.
lapis pilot
cunning urchin
Other strategies can work, of course.
hard holly
I just wish you didnt have to rely on quick spin so much with Guan Yu
Feels like its chargeup should be a bit faster
lapis pilot
i'm a bit sad that chaos shield got downgraded. I can see why they did it, but i enjoyed it being OP
dry ember
after a couple of runs, demeter fists is really solid, slightly more damage than divine fist while sacrificing some safety
a decent trade off
cunning urchin
I always just build for Special on Guan Yu and mostly ignore the spin.
I liked when we could still throw the spin through obstacles.
That was fun.
lapis pilot
hades spin still goes through obstacles...
cunning urchin
Also cheap. But fun.
random crest
Yea I'd agree. I see why they changed it but it was pretty fun to see
cunning urchin
@dry ember Frost Strike and Divine Strike do literally the same damage.
dry ember
I guess I should add I had Artic Blast
cunning urchin
Could have Exposed or something instead.
cunning urchin
They changed it in 1.0.
hard holly
Whats new about it?
acoustic venture
Applies boons
For frost flourish or drunken flourish
Really good at stacking up fast
lapis pilot
maybe not the right channel but have Hades speedrunners decided on particular conditions yet?
lapis pilot
i've not browsed the channels too much but wondering what the current records are
static crest
What's the way to build spear (not guan yu)? I've never managed to get an easy run with it, it always feels like it lacks damage
pliant osprey
what should i go with excaliber in order to beat EM3?
pliant osprey
lost super hard earlier using athena since im so good at dodging the spinny spin
bronze sorrel
What's the way to build spear (not guan yu)? I've never managed to get an easy run with it, it always feels like it lacks damage
@static crest
I'm really enjoying cast builds on Achilles lately
lapis pilot
what should i go with excaliber in order to beat EM3?
@pliant osprey attack boon for artemis (deadly strike?) and just stand in the aura. You'll do 1k damage easily
speed? heat?
@dry ember both, actually? like i assume folk in the 40+ heat range are comparing splits
bronze sorrel
Or Hades aspect is great for a more traditional attack based build
pliant osprey
ah yes i remember the blop crit runs, wanted to see if i could win without rng 
lapis pilot
of course i wonder what the 0 heat WR is
static crest
To me it feels like there's nothing that you can stack on the spear to make it broken
bronze sorrel
I think Nyaanyaa said the zero heat record is 8:10
dry ember
1.0 is out this week so no new record set yet. but the last patch:
3m51s for any%
54 for high heat
29m something for fresh file
static crest
I like that you can throw spin attacks while standing behind obstacles but it takes ages to kill Hades this way
lapis pilot
then don't focus on the spear's attacks. make something dumb like poseidon dashes and mix in a dash strike with hangover or whatever easy status curse
pliant osprey
personally i feel spear has a good stand, its just boring to play, fast room clears and getting the bounce thing is really good
against bosses it takes ages to kill without right boons
lapis pilot
it may have changed in 1.0 but razer shoals and bonus boss damage from poseidon's boons used to make a mess
ebon tinsel
what about achillies spear w dash strike and attack damage stacking
lapis pilot
iirc a good mix up is probably the zeus/poseidon dash duo? you just keep lightning striking, so just jolt and razer shoal until your thumb gets bored
random crest
For spear, if you're looking for good damage cast builds with Achilles can be really strong
dry ember
Attack Achilles spear is OK, but you can just go with cast for an easier time
ebon tinsel
cast Achilles?
pliant osprey
cast achilles seems off to me
dry ember
yee
random crest
Yea, it's really good
ebon tinsel
does the bonus damage apply to casts??
random crest
Yes
static crest
I had a couple of runs with serrated point and hunter dash and it still felt like it didn't do much damage
hard holly
I really wish we got back the achilles spin trick
pliant osprey
serrated point is suicide
dry ember
on paper it seems like one of those hit and run aspects
that's kinda what cast build does, doesn't it?
ebon tinsel
interesting thanks
random crest
It's a good bit of why Achilles is so good to me at least
random crest
I usually just start with Artemis and try to get Mirage shot and go from there
ebon tinsel
thanks for the info
dry ember
otherwise Zeus Cast or Athena cast is solid
pliant osprey
:thisisfire: yeah i see the gimmick
random crest
I often go with True Shot on it cause the crit damage gets dumb
dry ember
Lightning Phalanx Achilles is really strong
pliant osprey
what about aphro?
random crest
I can see that being quite good too
dry ember
I don't have much experience with that
ebon tinsel
so isnt achillies technically better than poseidon for cast?
pliant osprey
?
dry ember
you can't dislodge casts
random crest
I'd imagine you can run most casts on Achilles and it'd probably work out
pliant osprey
oh the aspects
dry ember
so there are trade offs
random crest
Though yea, that's the one problem
random crest
You get more damage but you can't dislodge
fickle parrot
anyone know wich weapons are best for a doom build?
dry ember
Zeus Shield
hearty elbow
Has Delta Chamber been changed? It feels somehow less bad than it used to
dry ember
Doom on Special
Deflect on Attack
Need Merciful End
Or just Chaos Shield and call it a day xD
Doomfists is also really fun
Lastly, my own creation: Hestia with Curse of Agony and Hunter Dash
hard holly
That seems like bad Hestia
fickle parrot
i have good results with doom on special. spear or shield
dry ember
That Hestia build is used to overcome Damage Control for High Heat
hard holly
Ah
dry ember
but yeah, you can do better with Hestia xD
pliant osprey
currently what is the fastest way to proc doom?
hearty elbow
zeus shield
pliant osprey
ah ok
dry ember
used to be fist, but RIP Divine Dash nerf
hearty elbow
It's not the easiest way to proc doom but it is the fastest lol
ebon tinsel
zeus shield vs chaos after nerf? like what does zeus offer other than doom
pliant osprey
the chaos shield nerf hurts tho
hearty elbow
Being extremely skill intensive and awkward
fickle parrot
and always stack dire misfortune obv
hearty elbow
define high
I'd say build variety is excellent until above mid 40's.
I would also say that around 40-45, you can do basically whatever you want, it's just a matter of execution
ebon tinsel
20 is most id go without expecting to cheese the game (20 is where bounties end if im correct)?
lma0 40 kekw
dry ember
at 20s you can do almost anything. even boonless.
ebon tinsel
well thats great to hear thanks guys
keen saffron
What builds are good with the new fist aspect?
limber pine
bounties end?
rose iron
Might have spoken too soon about that Fiery Presence bug. I'm only getting 50% extra damage on my Aspect of Zeus now. u.u
turbid needle
I wish there was a way you can trade boons for other boons in this game
rose iron
You can eventually re-roll them. And sometimes you are offered an exchange.
IE, you might get a chance to swap your Attack boon.
fervent canyon
How do you best use ||invisibility||? Tried playing around with it but not sure how to use it effectively, ||seems like a worse Athena call?||
regal edge
@fervent canyon from my limited experimentation, ||using one gauge feels pretty bad, it's only useable if you use the entire gauge at once, one gauge can be used to run out of a tight situation to reset real quick but that feels bad imo||
idk someone else can maybe give their experimentation results or a combo i overlooked
fervent canyon
Ah I see
||I mean, if you have to run away though I think there are so many superior calls for that||
regal edge
exactly
fervent canyon
||It just doesn’t last long enough at one bar, and at full bar it’s basically Athena call right?||
At least from my understanding of it
regal edge
not quite ||you can still get hit by things (e.g. aoe) afaik even while invis/unseen, but Athena (and Poseidon) renders you invulnerable||
regal edge
it allows you to ||de-aggro or set up a big attack kuz you get bonus damage upon breaking invis/unseen, also you move faster while invis/unseen||
regal edge
so one potential is like a ||crit build where you use one bar to set up a gigantic aoe slam e.g. with sword, idk, i haven't tried it kuz it feels pretty lackluster but maybe people can make it work||
regal edge
no prob, i'd like to see what others think but from my limited experience trying to ||get the keepsake to 3 stars||, it was pretty meh outside of using it ||at full gauge, especially during Final Boss fight (slightly humorous interaction)||
lilac geode
man i swear i have no clue about 80% things you're saying and i beat the game
what should i do to unlock more stuff?
regal edge
We're talking about a new keepsake. Head over to #h1-story-discussion and check the pinned post guide to find out more info about that keepsake, and then our discussion will make more sense 🙂 (this is assuming you actually beat the game, as in, post-credits).
lilac geode
yeah i beat it
thanks
can you give me some pointers on unlocking the hidden aspects as well?
wait no
not post credits i think
fervent canyon
Just play the game naturally and try different weapons @lilac geode
lilac geode
i beat the final boss about 3 times
fervent canyon
The hidden aspects naturally unlock from certain conversations
So if you use a weapon enough eventually you’ll talk to someone and unlock what you want
regal edge
🙂 not post-credits, game not done yet! keep going!
lilac geode
is it tied to a specific aspect tho? or just using the weapon in general will eventually unlock it for me?
regal edge
There are specific requirements, but you can Google the requirements for the "old" new aspects.
For the most part though, just use + upgrade weapons and talk to people.
lilac geode
is there something like "unlock all aspects" as a requirement? i just dumped all my points into one aspect
fervent canyon
They come pretty naturally
No, that’s not a requirement
You do get a reward for doing that tho
lilac geode
i see
turbid halo
You do need to invest a bit into the weapon, but I'm pretty sure you don't need to unlock everything
ornate remnant
What are the scaling differences for boons that boost attacks like Poseidon, Athena, Demter,Artemis
I know Artemis is weaker than the rest from just playing
turbid halo
What do people like using for the first boon when playing poseidon aspect sword? I used to use Artemis but that was when her legendary gave +3 and the split shot wasn't a duo
dry ember
Phalanx Shot (Athena) into Lightning Phalanx (Zeus Athena Duo) for me
turbid halo
I'll try that, there's so many good cast duos and so few of them are compatible with each other
dry ember
Alternatively Slicing Shot is also quite ok
turbid halo
In the past I haven't been able to get anything done with slicing shot
Hunting blades seems really good but I've never got it
Oh, while i'm here, how does poseidon aspect interact with stygian soul? If the casts don't drop anymore, does that mean all you get is the +cast damage?
unkempt pagoda
true shot is still great because of easy access to exit wounds
as for fully loaded, +2 isn't as great as +3, but for a cast build with access to exit wounds, there really is not much of a difference
unkempt pagoda
Oh, while i'm here, how does poseidon aspect interact with stygian soul? If the casts don't drop anymore, does that mean all you get is the +cast damage?
the only thing that matters is that you can still "dislodge", meaning exit wounds still work. however, now you want to focus on grabbing prometheus stones, chaos grasp boons, and getting fully loaded
covert hatch
One hit off but I got pasted by a spin
hard holly
Yeah no chance
I got through phase 1 without using up the DD
But the second phase crushed me
Literally, even
fickle parrot
id go with lightning strike and keep looking for primary attack upgrades
hope to find rolling knuckle
hard holly
Lightning Strike
steady hatch
hearty elbow
yeah they qualified most of the multiplicative ones with "base"
Though TIL that Flying Cutter is multiplicative lol
hard holly
Most are, yes
But I expected this one to not be
Since it being additive makes it not worth using
real grail
with Distant Memory (+10% damage to distant foes) does that apply to damage from DoTs like Decay, Hangover and Jolted?
bronze sorrel
Rending Claws doesnt work
@hard holly how do you mean?
hard holly
They should add 25% damage (which I suspect will also be additive)
They didnt
Or it didnt
Whichever
Cant tell if the slow worked
bronze sorrel
Oh, thats unfortunate. Did you F10?
hard holly
It skipped my mind
But I think it might have to do with the fact that I got it from a reforge
Iunno
I really think Maim should be multiplicative
brittle wind
What god power do you use for shield?? the normal attack and the special one... I try zeus for the special but it's not that strong
bronze sorrel
Which shield?
brittle wind
captain america... the aspect I forgot the name... the one that after you charge you can throw a lot of shield
bronze sorrel
Chaos
Honestly I'm not totally sure with the new patch. Zeus is definitely gonna be less good now.
Aphrodite maybe?
I haven't messed with the rework much yet
brittle vault
what do you guys think about beowful? i just tried it and it seems like a lot of work for mediocre results
unkempt pagoda
i only use it for charged flight memes
hard holly
Oh, looks like someone already wrote feedback about Gilgamesh and how Maim kinda doesnt feel worth it
sullen valley
Charged Flight is extremely strong with it
acoustic venture
Okay
Which is the better Mirror trait, Stygian or Infernal Soul?
specifically for cast builds
brittle wind
Never tried that but I think stygian is better... the power to spam them to death is better than have to wait 3 second... which is too long
sullen valley
Infernal if you want damage and kills immediately
Stygian if you want consistently dispensed damage
acoustic venture
I just always end up losing my Bloodstones lol
never know where they end up popping out
Also, going through feedback and found the mention of Demeter Fists being the defacto strongest fist aspect?
turbid halo
That roughly sums it up - I haven't done much stygian for actual cast builds, but there is a lot of value to infernal soul letting you chuck three casts at the start of the fight, even if you're not going full cast build (e.g. demeter's chill burst on cast)
acoustic venture
with Nyaa having numbers to back it?
If you mean Ice Wine, the instant festive fog chill blast, jesus that thing is strong
unkempt pagoda
for cast builds, infernal is always* better
*stygian soul is technically better if you have chaos grasps, prometheus stones, and/or fully loaded, but this relies on good rng to get these boons and infernal will always be better from the start
(if you do manage to get these boons with stygian though, you have an easily won run depending on what cast you're building, epic auto reload is also very nice)
regal edge
If I get a Chaos Curse that gives +damage on traps, but also have let's say Athena's -damage on traps, do they stack additively or multiplicatively? (e.g. if i take +250% dmg from traps but have 90% damage resistance from traps, do I take only +25% damage (multiplicative) or do I take +160% damage (additive))?
Same question applies to Chaos Boons I guess
unkempt pagoda
not sure, but i do know that when i take sure footing for heightened security on, i still only take single digit damage
regal edge
aka like +100% damage attack boon from (god), and then +50% damage attack boon from Chaos--I assume in that case it only gives +150% instead of +300%...?
unkempt pagoda
pretty sure +% trap damage is applied, then sure footing is applied to that number
regal edge
Yeah I feel like +dmg boons are additive for sure otherwise things get broken OP, but traps might be calculated differently but unsure...
onyx parcel
Yeah I feel like +dmg boons are additive for sure otherwise things get broken OP, but traps might be calculated differently but unsure...
@regal edge there’s only one way to find out...
hard holly
Yeah its additive
Boons used to be multiplicative
A very, very long time ago
Nowadays there are only a handful of things left that are multiplicative, most notably crit
valid crow
how I do actually play with the sword, specially with 3rd and 4th aspect?
I'm quite decent with other weapons, tho I still suck with rail. :') I just can't get good with sword lmao
visual holly
Attack speed is also basically multiplicative (Hermes boons saying "your attack/special is faster").
regal edge
Crit is multiplicative since the only way to buff Crit (off the top of my head) is a specific Artemis Boon where your crit does more damage?
aka if you have a primary that has 20% chance for crit of like 200% damage (or 250 or 300 I forget default modifier for crits), and then get a "your crit does 50% more damage", then your crit now does 300% damage?
visual holly
I think multiplicative in the sense that if you crit, it multiplies the value of the whole attack, including any other buffs, like e.g. chaos boons.
hard holly
Yup
Crit just takes damage and multiplies it by 3
So if your attack usually does 200, it now does 600
On the other hand, a 200% damage boon would only up it by 200% of the basedamage
Whatever number that may be
regal edge
oh so if i stack crit boons that's technically still additive
regal edge
if my crit does 50% more damage, and base crit value is 300%, then it does 350% now
hard holly
Probably, yes
valid crow
eh, with some 150-200% bonus to attack over chaos/atk boons etc
I could reach to 1k+ damage with crits, I think crits are additive also
hard holly
Crits are not, they legit just multiply the damage by 3
livid dew
did rama bow get buffed? it feels better
dry ember
Bow special got buffed in general. Maybe that applies to Rama also??
hearty elbow
Rama attack got faster
livid dew
ah okay that must be it. it didnt feel that slow anymore when using the bow
been having a lot of fun with it
regal edge
Is there consensus on how the Styx rooms work, in terms of "picking" the correct one? I know you can't get it on your first room, but from my experience, it has a higher chance of being 2nd room (than an equal chance for 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th choice), but can it also not be the last room? I don't think (in recent memory) I've ever seen it be the last room I pick.
regal edge
aka I feel like it's "not the first room, not the last room, higher chance for "earlier" rooms proportionally though"
rare kayak
oh huh
i think they buffed than a bit
he doesnt give out the souls when he kills in elysium anymore
regal edge
yep he was beyond mega-easy in Elysium kuz you just needed to get one kill on hima nd then let Than kill the big baddies and just wipe up the souls lol
Then again if you have a big lead on him this is actually a buff to Zag kuz you can just let Than kill big shielded enemies completely haha
visual holly
Oh, so the sack is not predetermined and gets assigned after you already entered the tunnel? Huh, never knew that.
regal edge
Definitely not predetermined since you can never get it on your first try, so yeah, I think it gets assigned after you enter the tunnel.
magic dagger
yes
if you remember to reload, it's nothing but a DPS downgrade, so a lot of people don't like it
rare kayak
and honestly its not like its hard to reload lol
i think ive come around to both dem call and zeus shield though
call is really set it and forget it just because of how much area it covers esp in boss chambers
regal edge
has someone done the DPS math? reloading takes like 0.5-1 seconds or something and is definitely a DPS hit
rare kayak
and when im not playing chaos aspect i usually spam attack anyway so same thing for zeus shield
i feel like i prefer a 12 burst rather than a three burst though since i get to trigger my attack stuff more often
acoustic venture
I always run out of ammo and am clicking on empty for a second or two before I reload
magic dagger
has someone done the DPS math? reloading takes like 0.5-1 seconds or something and is definitely a DPS hit
you can dash and/or special while reloading
or cast
rare kayak
and yeah that
visual holly
Same, I always need to practice reloading again when I switch to the Rail.
regal edge
yeah but if you have Delta Chamber, you can actually just spam dash attack and have a continuous stream of fire
rare kayak
but being able to trigger like zeus attack in a full 12 round burst feels better than three round bursts
acoustic venture
no damage ramp Lucifer feels super weak
regal edge
if you throw in a special here or there it's a very very brief stop of firing
magic dagger
it takes a little work, but you can figure out exactly how long it takes to empty your magazine
then just stop firing for a moment
rare kayak
infinity laser works better in a special based build i feel
magic dagger
special or cast during the downtime
regal edge
i just had Delta Chamber in a run and it literally never stopped firing even while using a special--just hold down fire and dash around, throw in a special when needed for a very quick special
acoustic venture
yeah I got Delta on an Eris run with Zeus Attack, and I just shredded everything
bc i was just dashing around and not really worrying about reloading
rare kayak
i think the question is if you would take it over a flurry fire, triple special
etc
which for me is a no
magic dagger
delta chamber isn't bad
it's just not spreadfire
rare kayak
its like a second or third tier in my choices at least, but not absolute rock bottom
rare kayak
hazard bomb
acoustic venture
thank you
rare kayak
or rocket bomb
although idk if thats compatible with eris
hazard bomb is a pretty rock bottom choice no matter what
acoustic venture
Hazard is the way worse one
acoustic venture
Okay but concentrated fire + Delta ?
rare kayak
but thats because ive got bad aim
rare kayak
does it stack through three round bursts?
rare kayak
well conc fire is also another flex choice for me
rare kayak
i like explosive fire though that one is pretty suck
acoustic venture
it was explosive fire + delta