with demeter being imo the most annoying
#h1-builds-and-combat
fading bluff
sullen valley
That’s a little terrifying to note.
fading bluff
he just straight up uses a mini demeter call (deals 1 damage per tick but still)
unkempt pagoda
i'm not actually sure what the effects are beyond the visual
fading bluff
every time he attacks
unkempt pagoda
i need like, a table of godly effects that were added this update
sullen valley
Ughhhhh
fading bluff
demeter just throws a storm in your face
onyx parcel
Wiki has it
fading bluff
athena makes him momentarily invuln
onyx parcel
Effects of Theseus’ call
fading bluff
which is also annoying
onyx parcel
If u look under Theseus combat
unkempt pagoda
were they added that fast?
onyx parcel
Oh u mean new content? That I’m not sure
I don’t think so
For some reason no one seems to be updating hades wiki
unkempt pagoda
i'm talking about the new effects added to his attacks, like his spin
regal edge
@onyx parcel
Assuming no Extreme Measures Boss Upgrades.
Tips for Theseus/Minotaur (Elysium/Biome 3):
Focus down Minotaur first. Minotaur telegraphs his attacks via a "windup" animation. Either get away from him, or get the timing down so that you are in dodge invincible frames animation when he swings. His go-to is a two swing + leap combo, "just time it" is the best I can offer. He's vulnerable after the leap. He also telegraphs his charge-at-you attack, which you need to avoid by dodging through a pillar to make him hit the pillar instead. It can be a bit tricky since sometimes you dodge through a pillar but he sorta sideswipes it and continues to hit you. Again, he's vulnerable for a few seconds after his charge, get in some swings there. Never stop dodging.
Focus on Theseus second. Generally while you kill Minotaur, Theseus will be off doing his own thing chucking his spear at you (you'll hear a beep-beep and see a target icon, you sorta just have to keep dashing and "time it" to dodge the spear + return animation. Most of the time Theseus is on the opposite side of the map, but if you get close, Theseus will charge up a spin-attack which you'll have to dodge using invincibility frames or get away from in terms of range. At ~50% HP, Theseus will turn into Phase 2 Theseus where he calls upon the Gods to damage you (literally just circles on the ground that follow you). Good time to hit Theseus since he's attack-able from all sides (normally Theseus is invulnerable from the front, except when he throws his spear). I just facetank the damage while spamming dodge if I'm healthy enough, and Theseus generally dies in the middle of his god-summon animation or shortly afterwards.
fading bluff
all of the other gods I see have been very subtle
the very obvious ones are demeter and athena I think
unkempt pagoda
artemis adds a very nice green tint to his spin
hopefully not a critical effect though 
unkempt pagoda
i don't know, i don't stay around to test lol
onyx parcel
@onyx parcel
Assuming no Extreme Measures Boss Upgrades.Tips for Theseus/Minotaur (Elysium/Biome 3):
Focus down Minotaur first. Minotaur telegraphs his attacks via a "windup" animation. Either get away from him, or get the timing down so that you are in dodge invincible frames animation when he swings. His go-to is a two swing + leap combo, "just time it" is the best I can offer. He's vulnerable after the leap. He also telegraphs his charge-at-you attack, which you need to avoid by dodging through a pillar to make him hit the pillar instead. It can be a bit tricky since sometimes you dodge through a pillar but he sorta sideswipes it and continues to hit you. Again, he's vulnerable for a few seconds after his charge, get in some swings there. Never stop dodging.
Focus on Theseus second. Generally while you kill Minotaur, Theseus will be off doing his own thing chucking his spear at you (you'll hear a beep-beep and see a target icon, you sorta just have to keep dashing and "time it" to dodge the spear + return animation. Most of the time Theseus is on the opposite side of the map, but if you get close, Theseus will charge up a spin-attack which you'll have to dodge using invincibility frames or get away from in terms of range. At ~50% HP, Theseus will turn into Phase 2 Theseus where he calls upon the Gods to damage you (literally just circles on the ground that follow you). Good time to hit Theseus since he's attack-able from all sides (normally Theseus is invulnerable from the front, except when he throws his spear). I just facetank the damage while spamming dodge if I'm healthy enough, and Theseus generally dies in the middle of his god-summon animation or shortly afterwards.
@regal edge tysm
Anything about final boss?
regal edge
Yep writing it
onyx parcel
Ty ty
fading bluff
but also I don't know if everything I saw applies to non EM
because I've always run EM3
and now I probably will always try to run EM4
gilded knoll
There's a tagteam shockwave move now isn't there?
fading bluff
there is a shockwave move, not sure what triggers it
I've always assumed it was theseus alone
gilded knoll
Asterius begins charging to Theseus if I recall
gilded knoll
The spin2win being more obvious has saved me so much hp and DDs
regal edge
Tips for Final Boss:
||First Phase is harder than Second Phase imo. Hades is sort of like Theseus where he has a spin attack, you have to dodge it the same way described above. At 66% HP, Hades turns invulnerable and summons a few armored enemies to help out. Watch out for getting hit by Boiling Blood (Hades sorta pulls back his spear and "throws" it at you); if you get hit by it you'll take 1.5x (or maybe 2x, IDK) damage from him for a while). Be aware for the BB on the ground; they explode after 5 seconds (timer above its head) and they do a lot of damage; you can dodge the damage circle by "dodging" into the damage ring i.e. through the green circle. If a BB is close I generally just kill it (no damage ring); if it's far away I just make note of it and dodge the ring as it gets to me. At 33% HP, Hades goes Invul and summons more armored enemies to help. He also sometimes goes Invis throughout first phase, you can see footstops on the ground (I think Hades always breaks Invis by using his charged spin attack), so you can prep the dodge by looking at the footsteps on the ground to track Hades (and the Spin charge animation shows). After you deplete his health bar the first time, Hades goes Invul, and Phase 2 starts. In Phase 2, Hades attacks faster (I think), and has two new moves: sun-ray, and urns. Sun-Ray is telegraphed by Hades starting a channel with his spear spinning around him; either hide behind a pillar and wait it out, facetank it (if you're good on HP), or do a combination by dodging through Hades very close to him; I don't think sun-ray hits you that often then. I think during Part 1 of Phase 2, Sun-Ray is only 3 beams; in Part 2 (after Hades Invul at 50% in Phase 2), Sun-Ray covers all directions so you can't dodge it by running in a circle. Hades also summons Urns which explode when hit by anything (including your attacks); after they explode they quickly expand into a small AOE which stuns + damages you if you're close. Just be careful. ||
gilded knoll
EM Hydra you have to be super precise
fading bluff
Tips for EM Final Boss:
You're not ready for the badass guitar solo.
regal edge
@onyx parcel
gilded knoll
I still gotta grind up to that em final boss
regal edge
^
fading bluff
In my first EM4 run today
gilded knoll
Probably going to see if my goto cheese builds work
fading bluff
I went into the fight at around 4 minutes left (TD2 4-sack)
I timed out in ||phase 3||
gilded knoll
An epic fight...
gilded knoll
I'll probably be out of luck. I facetank everything.
fading bluff
and I only have to kill him fast enough that I don't die to the TD drain
regal edge
Extreme Measures
onyx parcel
And what is BB?
fading bluff
Extreme Measures
gilded knoll
Boiling Blood works similar to how the mirror upgrade from Zag works
fading bluff
BB is the skull thing he casts
onyx parcel
Ahhh
regal edge
Regarding Boiling Blood: ||yep, it's the green skull he throws at you||
onyx parcel
So it’s his cast
fading bluff
the projectile he throws at you
gilded knoll
Yes, Redacted and Zag have some of the same moves
regal edge
The TL;DR for the game tbh is "abuse the dodge invincibility frames"
onyx parcel
Alright thank u for the two big paragraphs
fading bluff
redacted has ||Death defiance||
gilded knoll
I just hide behind pillars
fading bluff
and EM4 redacted has ||aspect of achilles special||
that, by the way
has so little telegraphing
I'm still trying to figure that one out
regal edge
smh noob redacted taking ||Stubborn Defiance|| instead of ||Death Defiance||
gilded knoll
He invested all darkness into hp.
naive violet
He also borrowed ||Achilles' Spear||
gilded knoll
Guess he got tired of Zag's tricks. Can't beat em join em
fading bluff
he also has ||h a r p y d u s t e r||
naive violet
I wonder what his reaction was when he saw that Zag took EM 4
"Orpheus, get the electric guitar"
naive violet
Call an ambulance...but not for me
fading bluff
Also Hades: Heckin dies
naive violet
That's it. That's the fight
fading bluff
anyway that's off topic
gilded knoll
So fist legendary... I can't facetanks things now can I
fading bluff
I think enkidu penalty is kinda too harsh
at least make it scale down with aspect upgrade level or something
naive violet
In more on topic news, did Chiron get buffed? I had four runs with it since 1.0 (Heat 12-16) and it melts everything
gilded knoll
I didn't see anything about Chiron on patchnotes
fading bluff
rama destroys swarms even better
turbid halo
Do chiron/rama still have the issue where you can't proc zeus lightning multiple times because of internal cooldown?
gilded knoll
That was a nerf though, not an issue? Well I thought it was at least.
turbid halo
Could be a nerf, makes sense if it was
Who do you want on Chiron special then, Demeter? Dio?
naive violet
Anything that increases special damage is good IMO
So Demeter, Poseidon, Aphrodite
Poseidon Zeus Combo builds in general can be really strong
gilded knoll
Ah that duo is pretty nice
naive violet
It can get pretty ridiculous if you have Zeus legendary
brittle vault
heyo, does anyone know if bonuses to healing affect the guan yu aspect?
abstract island
Gilgamesh + ares special feels broken strong.
brittle vault
thanks for clarifying
plucky girder
Any good Bow builds? Having trouble with em
hearty elbow
Feels like virtually anything works now compared to before lol. The buffs were soooo sick
naive violet
Chiron with Demeter/Aphrodite/Poseidon/Artemis on special and literally anything else on attack
Zeus aid is always good
abstract island
Combined with the aphrodite dash and duo, a bunch of poms, and the boiling blood MotN upgrade, plus some other stuff, I'm dealing 2.2k damage per dash upper
hearty elbow
The "standard" answers for bow are Aprho attack with Divine/Hunter Dash
naive violet
Guided Missile bow go brrrrrrrr
abstract island
Athena special is really good on bow, too.
waxen furnace
what are some of y'alls favourite/momst fun starting loadouts? ex. hera bow + ares trinket to drop blades on targets
sullen valley
You know...That Ares/Poseidon Duo goes well with Poseidon’s sword
magic dagger
what are some of y'alls favourite/momst fun starting loadouts? ex. hera bow + ares trinket to drop blades on targets
Zag sword, no upgrades, no keepsake, no mirror
the ideal loadout
sullen valley
Hm, Chiron Aspect, Aphrodite Attack and Special, and Unhealthy Fixation
“Sit down, its my turn to play.”
sharp rock
Does Anvil still take a random hammer upgrade?
sullen valley
final boss go ...
I think so
sharp rock
hmm okay thanks. Tough choice
naive violet
Arthur with more money = more damage is ludicrously fun if you can get it going
Which is a pretty big if, sadly
dry ember
Try Zag Sword with Flurry Slash and Hoarding Slash.
Even more powerful than what you described
dry ember
Sure if you are into that xD
Although you can get Heartbreak Strike for even more damage
surreal vector
brittle vault
hooo just got a clear with the guan yu aspect.
really fun but it feels like you have to upgrade the spin or it's dead in the water
hearty elbow
The special is a very good (and usually better) build path as well
Charged Skewer particularly
The odds of you not getting either a spin hammer or skewer are pretty small
brittle vault
i'll try a special build sometime
waxen furnace
think ive been sleeping on zag sword. haven't used it since my literal first run some months back
unkempt pagoda
chaos egg can be great, but only if you get chaos gates at all. if you get bad rng, you basically have a useless keepsake. one good trick is to check whether there's a light of ixion in the well between biomes, then switch to chaos egg
turbid needle
@unkempt pagoda whats your keepshake tierlist?
regal edge
Doesn't Chaos Egg force a Chaos Gate spawn at next possible place?
Just like any other God/Goddess keepsake
unkempt pagoda
Doesn't Chaos Egg force a Chaos Gate spawn at next possible place?
nope, only increases rarity and cuts the hp cost
waxen furnace
wait - you can go back to the fountain room after getting to the pre-biome room?!
regal edge
huh I'll have to double check kuz I recently took Chaos Egg two or three times and each time a Chaos Gate immediately spawned the next room, maybe just lucky
unkempt pagoda
whats your keepshake tierlist?
i haven't really put much thought into a tier list, but generally i go god/god/acorn/spearpoint. occasionally i switch a god keepsake out for the coin purse
wait - you can go back to the fountain room after getting to the pre-biome room?!
what do you mean?
waxen furnace
oh you were talking about the item shop in the fountain room above. my bad
had never even thought of using Acorn for 3rd biome. I like that, will give it a try thanks
covert hatch
Why acorn for 3rd specifically
unkempt pagoda
i can usually defeat theseus & minotaur within the 5 hits the acorn gives me
naive violet
Regarding the egg, I usually take it as first item
You generally get at least one gate there and it's early enough that you can weather even bad negative effects
unkempt pagoda
meanwhile, styx boss can be a really long fight that lasts far beyond just 5 hits. also, spearpoint helps with poison a lot
unkempt pagoda
if i'm really desperate for a boon, i'll go god in elysium too
but mostly it's just acorn
covert hatch
Silly question, I haven't touched either, do the Feather and Butterfly buffs persist if you switch trinkets?
covert hatch
Woof
That's a rough one
Do you have recommendations for what weapons to use for those? I'm thinking Arthur for big damage
The idea being sticking with the same trinket whole way through
covert hatch
Those do make sense
I'm just worried about clear times with gauntlet
Maybe I'm just bad lol
sullen valley
That’s p true. Honestly I pick Zag Gauntlet because it’s the only weapon with dodge %
unkempt pagoda
it's multiplicative anyways
sullen valley
Oof
covert hatch
Oh boo
sullen valley
Sad face
Hm, I guess I’d pair the Feather with something you can kill fast with, I suppose. Doesn’t matter what, but...
Personally I thoroughly enjoy Chiron and any Sword with that keepsake.
covert hatch
I think Arthur is my plan then
dire wedge
Can I just say that I love the new aspect just for making Blade Dash and Thunder Dash fun.
drifting vale
fun fact if you have Blizzard Shot and trade flood shot for another Blizzard Shot stops working
drifting vale
I feel like Blizzard Shot should say your Flood Shot instead of cast or make some kind of note that it stops working
gilded knoll
I guess it's sort of implied by the path to get the duo
but explicitly saying so wouldn't hurt
Wonder if feedback still working
hard holly
Dunno who asked, but I find the best options for keepsakes are either God/God/God/Acorn, or God/God/Damage keepsake/Acorn
Depends on whether I got the 3 things I want by Elysium
brittle vault
wow, afrodite's call is such garbage vs hades
onyx parcel
How do I avoid the green vases attack by redacted
boreal summit
Ok I dont really like Ares, but curse of longing + heartbreak strike is really good dps
covert hatch
I really want to try the Exagryph hidden aspect with the one that lets Doom stack for more damage
hard holly
Isnt it just worse than using Zeus
boreal summit
isnt everything worse than just going zeus
acoustic nova
zeus is all fun and games until you suddenly stop getting any zeus
acoustic nova
yeah
hard holly
With Artemis as an option if youre feeling lucky
acoustic nova
Aphrodite is great. that was my one OT2 EM4 win
boreal summit
aphro is alright
although personally I wish that sweet sunder was how weak usually worked
acoustic nova
charm makes her great imo
acoustic nova
rhh, without the charm effects I'd rather go with something else
for pure % I prefer demeter, and she's probably low on the scale
hard holly
10% less
She is like average
Honestly I pick Aphro exclusively for the %
The effect is pretty whatever to me
And I dont like all but one of her duos
timid pawn
why's bone hydra so much weaker?
acoustic nova
ok but poseidon has rupture and the wallslams and sea storm with zeus
you don't pick it for the %
I rarely pick it actually, for poseidon I get the dash
hard holly
I just tend to not pick him at all
acoustic nova
just as good
hard holly
Rupture isnt much use if I two- or three-shot regular enemies
acoustic nova
good for the status effect damage bonus
acoustic nova
never did like the alternate. it's a flat 40% if you get 2 status effects. for ye olde zeus poseidon I'll have jolt and rupture
easy to do in any case
hard holly
Its more reliable and requires no additional effort
onyx parcel
Rare hyper sprint
Or normal quick recovery?
I’m using fist with an epic lightning strike lol somehow got lucky with my first ever fist run
But I’m close to dying cause I’m bad
hearty elbow
hyper sprint
dry ember
👀
you can dash strike to continue your combo
so if your enemies is not armored/bosses, they should be perma stunned
onyx parcel
MAN I HATE THIS
I used both death defiance and tooth in second biome
This freaking mini boss duo
Keep stunning me
I hate the fist
hushed ledge
fists are weird to play
even more than the rest of the game, they make you want to dive hard and commit all your resources
but you just can never do that in hades
dry ember
you can put Divine Strike on fists
hushed ledge
true
dry ember
and no worry too much about frontal damage
hybrid wave
does ||satyr|| poison count as trap damage?
dry ember
no
dry ember
Poison is weird
hybrid wave
so are there 2 poisons?
hybrid wave
huh
acoustic nova
if the floor goo, the gas and the darts
the floor goo is by far the one I whine most about
dry ember
The gas from the exhaust is trap/buffed by Heightened Security
hushed ledge
floor goo is just like "haha you dashed over me flip a coin to see if you get poisoned" tbh
dry ember
The poison from rat puddle/satyr darts are not traps but is buffed by Hard Labor
hybrid wave
ah that'll do it. So can you have multiple different kinds of poison stacking or do they replace each other?
dry ember
at least that's how it was in Blood Price. I did do some runs to test that specifically
hushed ledge
gotta commit less hard
dry ember
put on Divine Strike then
acoustic nova
I had a run today, lol. Got in a fight with Charon, won it with about 80 hp left. then he dropped me into the Asterius fight
that was fun
hushed ledge
fists you need to know the timings and the tells for attacks
acoustic nova
the armored asterius
dry ember
yeah Charon fight in Elysium is notorious for that
acoustic nova
I laughed a bit
dry ember
because midshop is usually succeeded by mini boss
acoustic nova
yeah
acoustic nova
but I rarely do the Charon fight
dry ember
did you see all the new stuff?
acoustic nova
don't diss the Macedonian
spark lotus
fists you need to know the timings and the tells for attacks
@hushed ledge this. you always gonna take some damage, but you can mitigate the most by manual dodge
onyx parcel
What’s the difference between fountain chamber asphodel and Underworld fountain
acoustic nova
I'm pretty bad with fists but I find that just dashing to keep the combo going works
hushed ledge
just dashing to keep the combo going means you end up in super vulnerable positions if you aren't careful
acoustic nova
fountain chamber gives you a room that might spawn, with a health fountain
hushed ledge
your dash is your most valuable resource with regards to not taking damage
onyx parcel
What is underworld fountain purified
hushed ledge
(well, call is)
spark lotus
for many foes it works to dash in squares. for example lost souls
acoustic nova
It should have item description
spark lotus
if you have two enemies, you can dash between them quickly to not release them from stunlock
onyx parcel
So should I dash or should I not dash with fists lol
spark lotus
i spam dash lol
(but it's better not to spam but to feel the rythm of attacks and dash between attacks for more control)
long knuckles are very nice
dry ember
the general combo is that you dash strike right before your normal attack combo ends.
the reason is that dash reset your attacks so you can continue another combo uninterrupted and keep your enemies perma stunned.
of course you should look out for enemies around and behind you that can hit you.
charred nacelle
is poison attack even worth it?
charred nacelle
whats the best attack in your opinion?
i find ares is not optimum, neither is zeus
spark lotus
depends on weapon
dry ember
wait we are talking fists right?
charred nacelle
yes, but whats the general BEST to go for?
dry ember
The best on Fist used to be Doom on Attack, Divine Dash, and look for Merciful End.
That build go nerf, so right now it's unknown.
charred nacelle
when do you unlock to duos again? i started a hell mode run and im getting kinda wrecked
dry ember
But some notable mentions includes:
- Lightning Strike
- Divine Strike
- Drunken Strike
spark lotus
wait,
The best on Fist used to be Doom on Attack, Divine Dash, and look for Merciful End.
@dry ember wait, that changed? haven't run it in 1.0
charred nacelle
lightning is best most of the time?
dry ember
Divine Dash can no longer unlock Merciful End
dry ember
Lightning Strike is + more than 100%, hard to beat that
there is no unlock for duos
just a matter of getting the requirements
charred nacelle
like, what are the requirments for it to drop
charred nacelle
is it just hearts to even see them in the first place?
untold vortex
though the wiki will be out of date for some duos
charred nacelle
i dont see lightning strike being that great, i guess i could be using it wrong
untold vortex
like Merciful end that fox mentioned
go all in on zeus if you pick lightning strike
charred nacelle
jolted is sweet, thats the best ive seen zeus
dry ember
I mean let's talk number. On fists, each strike is 15 damage
Lightning Strike adds another 15 on top
that's 100% damage, not including upgrades
charred nacelle
i guess that is double damage,
dry ember
no other attack boon offer double damage.
so ¯_(ツ)_/¯
although Lightning Strike, of course is terrible on slow/heavy hitting weapons like bow
charred nacelle
i guess so hey, whats the best gift to use most of the time? i use the achilles one usually but
i could be wrong
onyx parcel
I can’t even beat meg
Man
This is so bad
This is so sad
This is actually so sad
dry ember
do you need an example of how to use fists?
onyx parcel
Sure why not
dry ember
Shameless plug but example fight here https://youtu.be/pFqhhEyQptg?t=295
onyx parcel
Tyty
hard holly
Easily my least favourite weapon
They just feel like very slightly different flurry sword, and not the combo-heavy gauntlets I hoped they would be
dry ember
you can see that I am almost always punching
hard holly
You dash a lot on a lot of weapons tbh
onyx parcel
Also cthonic vitality or dark regeneration?
unkempt pagoda
dark regen, no matter what
dull karma
Question: Does ChargedFlight still exist, is it any good, and are there shields that don’t get it? I’ve been trying to get it to complete the minor prophecy but it just won’t show.
ancient belfry
When I played fists and got pretty far I would basically just hold down attack and dash around, using specials as fit
unkempt pagoda
the math works out that cthonic gives you a pitiful amount of hp compared to dark regen
dry ember
unkempt pagoda
onyx parcel
Right stick is so awkward
onyx parcel
Damn I really maxed out dark regen and you tell me vitality is better
hard holly
Im using R2 for reload
untold vortex
any mirror talent is viable
dull karma
Same. Vitality only really works for me if you get the health increase boon
you are fine.
@dry ember
onyx parcel
Th gun just seems like a better bow
unkempt pagoda
here's the thing: bosses drop darkness after you've gotten their one-time bounty reward (blood, diamonds, etc)
hard holly
High Confidence isnt
unkempt pagoda
and it's a lot of darkness
onyx parcel
here's the thing: bosses drop darkness after you've gotten their one-time bounty reward (blood, diamonds, etc)
@unkempt pagoda but isn’t there a fountain after a boss
hard holly
Its kinda not?
Like Hestia Rail is busted as hell
But in terms of damage potential, Bow is stil lahead
unkempt pagoda
fountains don't always heal to full
hard holly
Hestia Rail is just a lot more consistent
dry ember
man we can disagree on so many things
if the bow wasn't buffed recently, I would challenge the statement Hestia < Bow
unkempt pagoda
with the darkness drop and fountain, you can get near full every time
dry ember
but now I guess they are equal
hard holly
Again its just damage potential
Hestia is still ahead
Because its way more consistent
unkempt pagoda
bow is great now lol
dry ember
you should have access to it
hard holly
But if you get Triple Shot, perfect shot, hunters dash, aphrodites attack boon with Zagreus Aspect
Man
Those poor bosses
hard holly
You need to beat the final boss I believe
dry ember
no I don't think you need to
unless they change it in 1.0, which i did not see in the patch notes
unkempt pagoda
have you done a run after unlocking all the weapons
onyx parcel
No
dry ember
then do that
unkempt pagoda
for many things, you'll have to, because it refreshes the House and its events
hard holly
Ah no wait
unkempt pagoda
that works lol
dry ember
lmao
hard holly
Im not sure why I thought you needed to beat the final boss
dry ember
yeah it happens
hard holly
Anyway, I tried playing some non-hestia rail for a bit
It all just feels so much weaker
dry ember
sometimes info got jumbled up
hard holly
Shield especially, but I also didnt get the Deja Vu build
hybrid wave
thoughts on final mirror of night upgrade? I like the ||re-roll options|| more than ||re-roll chamber rewards|| myself but curious to what people pick
hard holly
Only got the purple version, so Im sticking with it
unkempt pagoda
thoughts on final mirror of night upgrade?
it's pretty much player preference lol
unkempt pagoda
i use authority because i like controlling what gods i get for a build
rapid thistle
unkempt pagoda
persuasion has its uses in that it also rerolls rarity. many high heat players use persuasion to get around approval process, which slashes out boon options
worldly trellis
Hey, any of you guys have difficulty with the hestia exagryph? I'm really not sure what the best way to use it is.
hybrid wave
dash special @rapid thistle
hard holly
Anyway, I tried fists a bit, and it feels like you need to find specific upgrades for the weapon to be alright
Super inconsistent
hard holly
Hestia Exagryph is busted
You put aphrodite attack and artemis dash on it
Then reload, dash attack, reload dash attack
Ad infinitum
worldly trellis
is it? I must be doing something super wrong because it feels really inconsisent
I'll give that a shot
dry ember
Yeah Hestia is really good if upgraded
unkempt pagoda
you can reload at max ammo too
onyx parcel
I keep taking these random ass chip damage early game
dry ember
level 1 hestia is doodoo
onyx parcel
So annoying
hard holly
Its more important than any other aspect that its at max, yeah
worldly trellis
I haven't even cleared my first run yet so its lvl 1, thats kinda why I'm asking bc Im having buyers remorse about my 2 titan bloods lmao
unkempt pagoda
piercing fire, explosive fire, and ricochet fire are the attack hammers that work with the empowered shot
worldly trellis
I'll set it aside until later then
dry ember
2 blood, I would suggest nemesis sword or Hera bow
worldly trellis
although theres no downside to using it over zagreius level 1 right? its identical minus the power shot?
hybrid wave
lol I feel that matt - FWIW the game saves on chamber enter so you can quit and try something else
dry ember
yeah, sure, no downside
hard holly
At level 1 Exagryph is ok, but mediocre
Its still good enough to get the job done, but its slow
I still dont understand what the appeal to hera bow is tbh
unkempt pagoda
nemesis sword is great, a chance for you to incorporate both attack and special into your style
worldly trellis
nemesis seems dope, Im gonna go for that next
been enjoying the sword but Im not amazing at melee
unkempt pagoda
I still dont understand what the appeal to hera bow is tbh
extremely strong burst damage, the upgrade gets your casts back as quickly as possible (pairs well with quick reload and exit wounds)
dry ember
put Trippy Shot on it, the rest should be self explanatory
onyx parcel
How do I deal with those witches
That shoot purple balls
That’s so annoying
It’s 5 damage per ball
hard holly
Dash to the side and hit them
dry ember
you dodge a lot
dry ember
¯_(ツ)_/¯ very 4head but it's true
hard holly
But its also a bosskiller that oneshots regular enemies
hard holly
Like, I tried hera, and I just found it to be worse than sticking a regular cast in the enemy and then firing the bow at them
But eh
Maybe just not my thing
I like seeing 4 digit damage numbers after all
Anyway, the thing with witches is also
A lot of ranged attacks destroy their projectiles
So if youre using bow, you can shoot through their balls and hit them without getting hit
unkempt pagoda
hera is as strong as the cast build you're running
unkempt pagoda
it's also very safe burst damage
unkempt pagoda
i know there's someone here trying to do a boonless run, and it's been great to them lol
i wonder if they ever completed it before 1.0
hard holly
Is that one damage number, or two that are overlapped?
dry ember
the downside is you need to hold on to it if you want the bonus 80%
but when you put a boon on it, you start to wonder why didn't I just start with a god keepsake in the first place
hard holly
Zag bow is pretty safe if youre smart with your dodges
hard holly
Is shadow multiplicative?
hybrid wave
lol I gave up trying to understand how the different damage bonuses interact
dry ember
I think everything is additive except for crit
hard holly
The rest are additive unless they say they increase base damage
Other way around
Crit is multiplicative
Everything else is additive
Unless it changes base damage because thats one layer below
dry ember
yeah you are right 😄
unkempt pagoda
according to the tooltip, crit is +200% 😛
hard holly
Hence why Im surprised with that damage number
untold vortex
except dodge which is effectively multiplicative
hybrid wave
so 1 * (1 + bonuses) * crit?
unkempt pagoda
dodge and damage resistance are multiplicative
hard holly
Basically, yes
Because the damage number has to be 2000-ish before crit
And uh
How do you get to 2000 without crit
unkempt pagoda
i assume fox is also running heart rend
dry ember
boiling blood
hard holly
Boiling Blood should be additive
unkempt pagoda
plus maybe boiling, FF, and/or sweet surrender
dry ember
also chaos
unkempt pagoda
(or clean kill)
worldly trellis
Hey here's a question I couldn't find the answer to on google, does boiling blood scale with the number of casts on an enemy? or is it the same whether its 1 or 3?
hard holly
I have never hit over 2k with Hestia rail
unkempt pagoda
there's a lot of floating modifiers that could be in that pic
dry ember
at 200 damage it's the highest
hard holly
I assume something is multiplicative
dry ember
hestia is 150
unkempt pagoda
Hey here's a question I couldn't find the answer to on google, does boiling blood scale with the number of casts on an enemy? or is it the same whether its 1 or 3?
only one is needed
hard holly
Whats 200 on Excalibur?
dry ember
the third strike is 200
hard holly
Oh youre right, it is
worldly trellis
so theres no reason not to take stygian cast
dry ember
infernal is good if you want to do certain cast builds
hushed ledge
infernal is more burst, stygian is more sustain and more utility
unkempt pagoda
stygian + chaos casts or prometheus stones are better than infernal, but infernal doesn't require luck to be good for cast builds
hushed ledge
imo stygian is more consistent ime
if you don't end up in a cast build it's just better
unkempt pagoda
i almost always just run infernal anyways, because of greater recall/quick reload
hushed ledge
it's better with dio cast, and just makes using casts so much less risky
unkempt pagoda
(for cast builds)
hard holly
Like Im still trying to figure out how the 8k damage thing works
unkempt pagoda
when i'm not doing cast builds, stygian soul is just a great quality of life mirror trait
hushed ledge
i generally don't go in aiming for a specific build
except on aspects that are obviously weighted
but even on pos sword i go stygian
just more consistent
hard holly
Doesnt look like shadow slash is multiplicative
Also hoarding slash + Flurry Blade sounds like stupid fun
worldly trellis
you guys were right, nemesis is dope
dry ember
yup, nemesis is dope https://clips.twitch.tv/HedonisticGiftedPanGrammarKing
acoustic nova
just finished a hera run, was surprisingly fun with arrow bounce and poseidon
boss damage was artemis cast
rose iron
Just finished a run myself with two duos that worked out VERY well. https://imgur.com/a/8iiJxLm
rose iron
Cold Fusion plus Lightning Rod = 😄
acoustic nova
that's the thing with zeus everything jolts, most effect will call lightning which can be further buffed with zeus boons
you can try getting the dio cast, then the dio-zeus and dio-demeter duos. it's lulzy
acoustic nova
yep
untold vortex
@rose iron that screenshot goes into #h1-victory-boasting, congrats btw ^_^
acoustic nova
congrats 😄
onyx parcel
And didn’t make it thru third boss
That’s the farthest I’ve gotten
Theseus just beat my ass
He seems to block everything i do
And somehow still do damage to me
acoustic nova
ah the trick is to wait for him to throw the spear
onyx parcel
I can’t even see what’s doing damage to me
acoustic nova
dodge, and then he'll turn his back and reposition
then you hit him in the back
you'll have a little crosshair on zag
while he's aiming
onyx parcel
So I gotta wait til he throws out the spear, and then go in?
acoustic nova
yeah, if you get too close he'll do a spear spi
onyx parcel
Ah ok
hard holly
And when he turns around hit him
unkempt pagoda
whenever theseus attacks (spear throw or spin), he always walks away from your position
acoustic nova
Theseus you just have to be patient
onyx parcel
Well I’m glad I set my new pb today lol
Got bull as a mini boss and got 100 of my hp
unkempt pagoda
if you find minotaur to be too much of a distraction, take him out first then focus on theseus
onyx parcel
Went into third boss fight with almost 200 and a tooth
acoustic nova
I find Asterius more difficult because he chases around
onyx parcel
And still got beat
sharp shadow
Does the hungover status effect stack, or does reapplying it just reset the timer?
hard holly
Do people not always go for Asterius first?
onyx parcel
Honestly the bull doesn’t even seem too bad on paper
hybrid wave
hot tip I didn't realize for a VERY long time, the crosshair on zag changes color which can help you dodge
onyx parcel
It’s just that somehow I still get hit
hard holly
Stacks up to 5 times I believe
acoustic nova
you can go for both if you're really confident in the build
onyx parcel
I had a pretty good build
hybrid wave
always go for asterius first lol
hard holly
Same
onyx parcel
Yea I’ll go for the bull first
turbid needle
Stacks up to 5 times, once you've got that hitting again I think resets the timer.
hard holly
Even in the Extreme Measures version
onyx parcel
I’m just not familiar with what Theseus does
hard holly
Ironically
unkempt pagoda
on non-EM, i usually try to kill both at the same time for that dramatic flair
acoustic nova
he throws the spear, he spins
hard holly
I think Extreme Measures 3 is easier
hybrid wave
hate having to deal w him and his bs completely so I gave up on doing him first
onyx parcel
How are u suppose to focus on asteroid when u have to dodge spear at the same time?
hard holly
Than non-extreme measures
acoustic nova
and he calls god aoe
hybrid wave
same...but I did have a ton of athena boons the one time I tried
onyx parcel
How do y’all focus on dodging spear and bull
acoustic nova
ignore theseus, his aim is bad :V
onyx parcel
Like at the same time
unkempt pagoda
don't get in close with theseus, because that's when he starts doing his spins
hybrid wave
sauce I'd try to be behind a pillar at all times
acoustic nova
just keep the fight perpendicular
hard holly
Lure Asterius from Theseus
acoustic nova
so not in a line
hard holly
And fight around pillars
onyx parcel
I’m dashing a whole bunch while fighting bull but I still get hit by spear
unkempt pagoda
at long range he'll always do his throws, which is easily telegraphed via the reticle over zagreus and audio cue
hard holly
I still get hit by the spear once or twice
onyx parcel
Ok I’ll use pillars next time thanks
hybrid wave
also watch for the reticle to turn pink, that's when he's about to throw
hard holly
I just learned the timing
acoustic nova
and there's the whuwhuwhu sound
hybrid wave
think you have to buy it? I played before it came out so when the update hit it was immediately available
sharp shadow
Also, regarding death defiance, if you have max charges and you get a boon that replenishes one, you don't get another charge right?
acoustic nova
only the Chaos boon will give +1
worldly trellis
do you guys use DD over SD?
I couldnt think of any reason not to use SD
it just seems straight up better
acoustic nova
if you're not confident with the bosses
hybrid wave
I did for a while - the one nice thing is if you're really struggling w bosses imo
worldly trellis
why is that? Its just 50% instead of 30% right?
untold vortex
DD is more flexible against single rooms/bosses
hybrid wave
it has higher max stack
acoustic nova
it's less health
worldly trellis
ya I just remembered that
untold vortex
you have 3 DD over a single recurring SD
onyx parcel
Yo I can unlock talos or Demeter which one do I take
acoustic nova
talos?
hybrid wave
tbh I'd get one, try it out on skelly then quit reload and try the other one
unkempt pagoda
i prefer demeter but it's only great once you've upgraded it a bunch
worldly trellis
I like that SD lets you reset HP between chambers xd
hybrid wave
if you don't leave the chamber you'll load in before you bought either
acoustic nova
you'll learn to not really die between chambers
I use SD only when doing high heat with no healing
onyx parcel
I’m not too comfortable with fist idk maybe I should use it more, and then decide on which aspect to get first
unkempt pagoda
i've seen SD on high heat players more than regular ones
hybrid wave
the hp reset only works if you have <30% health tho (or charon/boons but still)
hard holly
I never use anything but DD
But I also dont play on super-high heat
Basic logic is "95% of the time I will not lose any death defiances until the final boss"
And at that point 3>1
hybrid wave
true
acoustic nova
also 50% > 30%
dry ember
@onyx parcel you want a neat trick?
unkempt pagoda
at high heat it circles back around, so regular chambers are more dangerous than boss rooms
onyx parcel
Yes
hard holly
Idk
dry ember
pick a random aspect to unlock
hard holly
I still tend to lose 1 or 2 death defiance on the final boss
onyx parcel
And give up on a run?
rose iron
looks at one of the Aspects...
onyx parcel
I’m scared I’ll screw it up
dry ember
just give up
acoustic nova
don't worry sauce
dry ember
so unlock, go immediately, do 1 or 2 rooms to test
rose iron
Primary makes arrows seek the target the primary hit...
Add hammer effect where consecutive hits from secondary do more damage.
acoustic nova
they all are fun
rose iron
...I like where this is going. >:D
dry ember
(dont' die)
hushed ledge
Could you slightly nudge bosses with pos boons in previous patches or is that new?
acoustic nova
my first aspect unlock was Hades spear and it really sucked but I played Hades spear for a long time :V
turbid needle
@hushed ledge New-ish?
unkempt pagoda
poseidon knockback was greatly reduced against bosses, but it seems they've lessened the reduction in 1.0
hushed ledge
Cool
turbid needle
Not a 1.0 change, but it's new to 2020, I think.
unkempt pagoda
also, schpoon, how you liking the update 👀
hushed ledge
Pos is such a good aoe god
acoustic nova
yeah
turbid needle
It's one of the best games I've ever played, Onyx.
hushed ledge
They keep going up in my tier list lol
acoustic nova
go pos and breeze styx
hushed ledge
Aoe, rupture, safety, etc
turbid needle
and then die against the boss
acoustic nova
Demeter stronk, at least at higher heat levels
acoustic nova
oh demeter fist
hushed ledge
Pos special is super good damage as well
onyx parcel
I’ll get talos first
acoustic nova
yeah I don't like the fists
hushed ledge
Demeter fist is stronk
unkempt pagoda
demfists is only good at higher upgrades, not at unlock lol
acoustic nova
zag fists are nice
they have dodge right?
zag fists and hermes feather and greater evasion
hybrid wave
think that's how I got my 2nd or 3rd win lol
who needs to actually dodge when the game does it for you 🙂
hushed ledge
Some of the zag aspects have had to have decent buffs, but they're mostly in good spots rn
acoustic nova
on the bow I always go between Zag and Hera
onyx parcel
Fist aspects which one would benefit me early on without upgrades
hybrid wave
without upgrades I feel like their bonuses are pretty small
hard holly
Id argue as far as bow is concerned, Zags aspect is the best
onyx parcel
Ah I see thanks guys
hard holly
Otherwise yeah, his aspects generally lag behind
acoustic nova
Hera cast builds are cool tho
worldly trellis
I am not a fan of dash nova. I really regret taking this
acoustic nova
pew pew
hard holly
I think theyre fine on sword and shield because their regular aspects dont add that much
unkempt pagoda
multiplicative too
hard holly
I tried Zeus aspect on shield
I wasnt very impressed
Its fine with explosive return, but Id rather just ignore the special
onyx parcel
As anyone used fist hidden aspect yet
hard holly
A few people have
acoustic nova
zag turns into a bear
onyx parcel
||am I understanding correctly? It’s a straight out damage bonus on dash upper?||
hard holly
Asterius only has his non-story quotes
I have all the conditions
But it doesnt unlock
onyx parcel
What are the conditions?
acoustic nova
||| you need to dash and uppercut, + damage on them, + damage on you, burst damage after 4 secs ||
gilded knoll
Fist fourth aspect is scary to me, ||buffing|| enemies isn't a good thing with my playstyle
hard holly
Then you talk to ||Asterius||
onyx parcel
Ahh I see
hard holly
Does it buff spin damage now?
acoustic nova
range
you have a lot more range than before
it's great
and I think some damage as well, it was the previous patch
before that you pretty much needed spin speed or speed range hammer to get by with forced overtime
now if you get spin range hammer you spin the entire room
hybrid wave
ooh was wondering if the hades spear was worth getting. It seems fun
hard holly
I still wish the mark affected the spin damage
mighty ermine
the range buff on hades aspect spin (and overall spear basic combo damage buff) was actually present in blood price
hard holly
I also remain disappointed that they removed the spin trick on Achilles aspect
dry ember
tail 👀
onyx parcel
I think u can animation cancel with aspect of talos wtf
U deal the pull damage but not the punch damage
If u immediately attack after doing special
Is it just me?
gilded knoll
It's a good tactic
turbid needle
Spin trick?
gilded knoll
The talos pull is sorta slow sometimes
mighty ermine
and i'd definitely say the spin hammers were never truly needed on it, though they can be nice
onyx parcel
It's a good tactic
@gilded knoll but u don’t even do punch damage right
hard holly
Used to be you could throw the spear
onyx parcel
How is that good
hard holly
Then press attack to dash to it and immediately charge a spin
Skipping that little attack you do normally
Made it a lot safer and a lot more effective
But that was removed
glad girder
hi guys maybe I'm just terrible but the fist weapons seem kind of awful for something that costs 8 keys?
I just unlocked them and I feel like I had way more success with the spear
turbid needle
Every weapon works uniquely.
gilded knoll
Fists take some getting used to
turbid needle
The fists are one of my favorites but I hate the bow.
Just use what's best for you, don't worry about what other players are using.
hybrid wave
the fists are great with a boon that complements rapid hits (poison, freeze, lightning) and they're very fast but the range is awful
gilded knoll
You get punished a bit easier
glad girder
I'm trying to make it passed the hydra
glad girder
I thought maybe the fists were better for single target enemies
hard holly
I definitely wish they were more interesting
glad girder
but honestly just feels like the spear does everything best
craggy zinc
I adore the bow because I'm a cheesy boi who likes to shoot things from the other side of the room
unkempt pagoda
but I hate the bow.
i'm gonna complain, schpoon
hybrid wave
I think having the extra backstab damage helps the fists a lot bc you're repositioning more
glad girder
I just didn't know if maybe there was something to them I was missing
turbid needle
🤷
unkempt pagoda
don't make me use the dusa emoji
glad girder
like some kind of combos
hybrid wave
well there's a pause between attacks that you can get around by dash striking between every like 3 hits
gilded knoll
I cheese with athena attack
glad girder
on a side note does anyone actually use the spin attack with the spear?
It seems like bait
dry ember
yes
gilded knoll
Ido
hybrid wave
depends on the spear
dry ember
depends on the build
rose iron
I think I finally found a bow setup I'm liking. https://imgur.com/a/c1vcazb
hard holly
Spin builds can be quite good
mighty ermine
it's easy to use for opening on enemy waves spawning in, and takes practice to use otherwise in terms of spacing and timing
rose iron
I also got Doom on my primary, so I'm getting some extra damage when I tag too. 😄
glad girder
I haven't really tried to make any concentrated builds
I only just realized that some of the power ups overwrite each other
Seems like they could have made that more obvious
acoustic nova
thing to remember about the spear is that you actually have a bit of range, don't play it like the sword
because it's bad if you get in their face
hard holly
What do you mean overwrite each other?
glad girder
like they share slots
rose iron
Yeah, it sounds like you took a Boon Swap.
glad girder
like if I find a powerup from athena that boosts my special and then a separate one from like ares that boosts my special
I can't have booth
quasi topaz
Been a while since I played the spear but it always felt slow to me, similar to the gun. Could never get that timing down. Currently playing with the fists. I'm loving getting in a couple of hits and then zipping around to reposition and get more hits in.
onyx parcel
Fist feels pretty good to play @quasi topaz
I like zipping around
Like if u get a good attack and dash boon
hard holly
I really wish Fists were more combo-heavy
delicate nimbus
It’s cool we have a dash focused weapon though
quasi topaz
Like if u get a good attack and dash boon
@onyx parcel That was exactly what I had on my last run. Had Apro's weak on my attack, Zeus' lightning on my dash, Artemis critical on my special. Had a grand ol' time tearing through the normal enemies! 🤘
kind cloud
so the legendary aspect of the fist allows you to do a top-like dash attack.
on m&k, just hold down dash and use cursor to aim and zag does the dash attack in circles. i'm not sure what to make of it.
onyx parcel
@onyx parcel That was exactly what I had on my last run. Had Apro's weak on my attack, Zeus' lightning on my dash, Artemis critical on my special. Had a grand ol' time tearing through the normal enemies! 🤘
@quasi topaz bro I had a run similar to that too
Like so many things synergize with fist
hushed ledge
Yeah new fist aspect has the easiest attack cancels in the game
Makes it so tempting to just dive
I really want to get Athena attack on them
rose iron
the Aegis is surprisingly good with Athena on the primary slot.
Since it carries over to your charge attack.
lament perch
I had such a good chaos shield build and then I went and died to redacted's ||second healthbar||. I had TWO death defies left and lost both of them!
hushed ledge
New zag sword feels so much better, feels really strong ngl
drifting vale
Yeah it's slow and kinda clunky but if you can play around it it's a lot of fun and really strong
sharp shadow
what's the difference between punishing sweep and the regular eternal spear charge attack?
mighty ermine
punishing sweep applies an effect to foes that make your subsequent attacks and specials do increased damage on those that have been hit and marked (up to +150%)
it also has a wider radius than normal spin attacks
surreal oracle
Decisions decisions
dry ember
@onyx parcel Hades, by a long shot
dry ember
Your spin applies debuff
Enemies take more damage
Basically you spin once
And attack without spin
The debuff lasts p long.
The aoe of the spin is huge, especially if you can find massive spin
onyx parcel
Is it worth it tho
To take the risk of doing a spin
In fights
Why not just use achilles for extra damage
inland meadow
neon tusk
@inland meadow you unlock it by ||progressing the story, you'll get a contract for it. 100 gems to unlock||
barren otter
I had a run with heroic lvl 5 deadly strike, damage was pretty chonky
surreal oracle
I haven't tested em all out too much
barren otter
also I think the ||maimed curse|| gets affected by global damage modifiers (||it was doing 600 damage with ruthless reflex occasionally||)
untold vortex
@surreal oracle please spoiler tag hidden fist aspect
hardy dragon
has anyone used hades spear? what works with it?
dry ember
np!
hardy dragon
serrated point is whos boon btw?
dry ember
you can use Frost Strike Heartbreak Strike also
Serrated Point is a hammer
your dash strike hits 3 times
you just spam dash strike to oblivion
hardy dragon
oh lol ok im only on heat 2 with spear have almost never used it
any duo boons that youve had good results with?