that moment when you have to throw the shield to push it it by bit
#h1-builds-and-combat
young ether
bronze sorrel
it's the only way i'm going to do 32 heat i think
@delicate sundial
You might try curse of drowning as an alternative, its pretty nuts esp with Poseidon or Achilles aspect.
I haven't worked up to 32 heat yet, but when I do, I think thats gonna be my strategy.
livid aurora
The question has probably been asked before but do someone know if keepsakes bonuses like pierced butterfly damage remain active when switching keepsake ?
static jacinth
They don't.
livid aurora
Okay thank you
turbid needle
hey, how does work the greater inferno up for the secret aspect of the gun?
glass rapids
is that the one that increases the radius of radiation
i guess so
the hellfire radiates +250% damage in a larger area or something
so the hellfire radiates damage usually like 20 a tick or something until you detonate it
the hellfire radiates +250% damage in a larger area or something
so this shud be self-explanatory?
turbid needle
aaaaah yes mb i though it was the laser not the hellfire
thank you for the explanation
keen zealot
Any suggestion on the boons for aspect of lucifier?
Just got it. The constant dmg and ram is cool but I feel lacking in some way
errant narwhal
@sharp crane regarding your feedback, you can pin and unpin whatever boons you want in the victory screen (or at any point in the run when you open the boon menu)
main osprey
(already pinged them lol)
errant narwhal
oh, my bad, i was typing the response here...
errant narwhal
sorry for the double ping lol
static jacinth
So, does anyone have a take on Deadly Strike on Zagreus bow?
Worth it, or a horrid idea?
main osprey
Extra crit chance, seems reasonable
cunning urchin
Speedrun strat is either that or Heartbreak Strike.
half crater
Does that work out as 25%, or some other number that would require me to do math
23.5% i guess
not a huge difference
cunning urchin
Crit chance is additive.
half crater
oh neat
bronze sorrel
Same with dodge chance. I got to almost 80% once.
dry ember
Do we know that dodge chance is indeed additive? I know it has a cap but...
unkempt pagoda
pretty sure it's multiplicative
main osprey
I thought it was multiplicative
and then subtracted from 100% as the chance of getting hit
that's how I've always seen people talking about it, at least
unkempt pagoda
(also heard some weird thing where there was a difference between dodge chance and bonus dodge chance, but it was never verified)
dry ember
unkempt pagoda
the theory went that bonus dodge chance was added onto dodge chance
bronze sorrel
Huh, I thought it was determined to be additive but maybe that was bonus dodge chance? I could be wrong.
Anyone know if Curse of Drowning triggers knock-away effects like Wave Pounding or Sea Storm?
cunning urchin
I've never seen any real proof either way. So I don't think anyone has really determined anything.
tranquil knot
Just don't get hit in the first place 4head
bronze sorrel
I've never seen any real proof either way. So I don't think anyone has really determined anything.
@cunning urchin see, this is why we need practice options for skelly :p
cunning urchin
Nah.
bronze sorrel
I guess for science then we need either Sea Storm or Razor Shoals so there's a clear visual cue as to whether its working.
static jacinth
Anyone have much experience with Slicing Flare? The Ares cast on Beowolf. It's so odd to use.
main osprey
My only take-away from using it was that it was blinding with 3+ casts >.>
bronze sorrel
Definitely amplifies the difficulty of landing casts with Beowulf.
magic dagger
@mighty ermine what hammers would you usually want for a Hades Spear run?
mighty ermine
the main two i'd recommend for sure are serrated point and exploding launcher
depending on whether you want to lean into attack or special after applying your debuff from sweep
dry ember
Any attack boom that gives percentage would do
If you are feeling frisky, you can try Demeter and Artic Blast (combined with Serrated Point)
Maybe avoid Poseidon attack, but it still works tbh.
magic dagger
avoid poseidon attack
if your damage is sub-shackle, you might as well just use the shackles
turbid needle
Just tried Poseidon and Ares boon combo
Good lord it just destroys everything even without chaos upgrades for shot
Would be even better with Artemis blast on cast
formal basin
I can't believe I never tried Zagreus Spear + Poseidon Special + Exploding Launcher until now. It doesn't hit hard, but the crowd control from aoe knockback/interrupt like that is so good.
turbid needle
Second hardest-hitting Flourish, discounting crits.
gray lintel
Three rooms in a row of nothing but flame chariots. Using malphon. please help
i'm scared to go to the next room for fear it might be more flame chariots
orchid viper
maybe if u just used chaos shield š¤ ||/s||
gray lintel
no flame chariots, just 40 greatbow people
orchid viper
oh even better
gray lintel
NEVERMIND THEY'RE BACK
Revenge builds: Pretty fun. Endless non-stop waves of nothing but flamewheels: Not so fun.
upper salmon
flame wheels are my second favorite elysium enemy
bronze sorrel
NEVERMIND THEY'RE BACK
@gray lintel
So here's a tip for flamewheels you may already know, but it basically makes them a non issue unless you're speeding. If you run through a bunch of them and get them chasing you and then dash through a barrier, they'll crash and explode. This is doable in pretty much every room in Elysium.
stray jewel
Morning guys š
Quick question - which weapons / aspects would you upgrade with Titan Blood and maybe even in which order? I've unlocked all aspects except for the 4th from the twin fists and maxed 1st aspect of twin fists & Aspect of Chaos as well as Zeus Aspect from shield.
Oh while writing I thought of another question: which weapons would be chosen for racing / is there a special aspect you should "mainly" go with with each weapon?
analog sail
Generally it's whatever you like the most, but if you wanna follow popular trends:
Chaos Shield
Guan Yu Spear
Nemesis and Arthur Sword
static jacinth
I would suggest maybe going with Zag aspect spear first. It's cheap, and the special build is also very strong and has twice as much health to make up for it.
bronze sorrel
I'd get Zagreus aspect ranked up on any of the ones you enjoy first, cause they're only 5 blood for max rank. Except Stygius, cause its not super different from nemesis, and the later is just mostly better.
After that, I'd get either the hidden aspects or the second aspects, as they're both 15 blood and tend to be pretty strong. Second aspects tend to be a bit more straightforward while the hidden aspects are super different from what you're used too, and are a bit more skill intensive (except for Arthur which is full caveman mode)
The titan wars aspects are the most expensive and while some are pretty fun I think they're mostly not good enough to justify unlocking first (except Hera maybe, though Chiron is also pretty great)
analog sail
Excuse you, Demeter fists is a good third aspect.
It's just that Zag's is a lot easier to use
cunning urchin
Demeter, Hestia, Hera, Hades are all potentially the strongest aspects of those weapons.
Hestia is easily one of the most powerful aspects in the game.
I also don't agree about 4th aspects requiring more skill. They're not any more difficult than the rest, really.
Poseidon is also really strong.
livid aurora
I have a question about crit chances : I'm playing the spear with daedalus Vicious skewer that gives +50% crit chance on special recovery. Then I pick Artemis Deadly flourish that gives +20% critical damages on special. However I feel like when I recover the spear after using the special I don't get the 70% crit chance at all and not even the 50% crit chance. Does the artemis boon overrides the deadalus upgrade ?
bronze sorrel
What's the strategy with Demeter? I've never been able to make it work for me.
And I'm not saying the Titan Slayers are bad, just that alot of the secondary aspects are a bit better for less. Chaos and Nemesis were the ones immediately coming to mind.
cunning urchin
@livid aurora as far as I know, any crit chance should be additive.
livid aurora
Well I'm pretty sure I was having more crits after purging demeter's boon, maybe there is a conflict between daedalus specific "on recovery" crit cances and Demeter's "special" crit chances
cunning urchin
Lady Artemis's, you mean.
I'd send a bug report if you think there's something wrong there.
livid aurora
Artemis* my bad
I can't be sure as it is a crit chance and I was maybe just unlucky
cunning urchin
@bronze sorrel same as the other Malphon aspects except you'll want a good +% Flourish. Dash-Strike boons affect Dash-Upper, so you can get a ton of extra damage there.
That would be easier for them to test if there is indeed a bug or it was just your imagination, so I'd just F10 it, personally.
fluid stag
if I have doom on attack for instance and get +attack damage chaos boon, does that increase the doom's damage as well? or just the base attack?
or any equivalent interaction, special, etc.
static jacinth
Just your base attack.
fluid stag
ty
static jacinth
@sharp crane
The types of rooms you can reroll into are entirely consistent, and marked by the game based on the tassel surrounding them.
rare kayak
untold vortex
@sharp crane the video you posted in #hades-feedback is more suited for here over the feedback channel. Also keep in mind all discussion of anything in the feedback channel should take place here or #h1-discussion
@static jacinth I think their issue is you can't use FA to roll through everything in the gold laurel side of things (which imo would be a bad thing if it where possible to do)
static jacinth
I mean, I'm almost certain that you can reroll any gold laurel reward into any other gold laurel reward.
It's just random.
untold vortex
mini-boss encounter rooms (excluding styx) will always re-roll into another god boon (excluding Hermes) for example
static jacinth
Oh, yes. Mini boss rooms are an exception.
I forgot about that one.
But I think that's player favored? Usually.
untold vortex
I don't know the specifics behind how FA works unfortunately š
static jacinth
And you can't use it to get extra hammers or hermes boons.
But other than that, it's pretty much all the options.
untold vortex
in theory yes, in practice it doesn't seem that way, but that's from what I've seen using FA
as if I'm re-rolling a room I will usually reroll it 3-4 times and if I don't see something I want I'll move on
in a similar vein FP can not give you the specific boon you're after even after 2+ rerolls (assuming the pre-reqs are met)
static jacinth
Sure, but that's just RNG sometimes. Rather than any problem with the code.
untold vortex
mmhm, I don't find it an issue personally, RNG giveth and taketh away as it chooses
cyan imp
Which aspect would you guys suggest for Coronacht?
I want to spend some Titan Blood on it till I unlock its 4th aspect.
stoic thicket
Personally I prefer either Zag or Chiron.
half crater
Chiron is super fun, but a bit painful until its maxed out and not the most optimal even after that
I'd recommend either Zagreus or Hera
magic dagger
@fossil stone you don't have to push heat one at a time to get all the bounties. Each time you clear you get the bounties from the lowest level.
so if you did 40 heat with the shield right now you would get the bounties from level 16
assuming you haven't cleared since your last post
half crater
does a dash strike with serrated point count as one attack for the purposed of the Achilles spear buff?
seems like it does, which i wouldn't have expected
tranquil knot
My enjoyment of the Hera aspect increased once I figured out to load multiple casts into the shot
Unfortunately I threw that run really hard because I took Exit Wounds but passed up Hermes' quicker bloodstone drop boon
As well as losing all my DD on the way through Elysium, finding Pat, having a brain fart and skipping over the Kiss of Styx Premium
fossil stone
Really? on spear I went from 16 to 23 and I seem to remember getting just darkness on my next run. I'll check that thanks
fluid stag
is there a significant difference between typhoon's fury and breaking wave?
is the latter just better for aoe or something
I know the effects are different but it seems like they both kinda accomplish the same thing
rigid narwhal
@half crater serrated point strikes 3 times for dash strike, so you can proc effects 3 times per dash strike
Eg: if you have hangover on your attack, it will put 3 stacks on target each time you hit.
mighty ermine
they mean in the context of it using up achilles' boosted attack/cast charges
of which it has four
rigid narwhal
Yesterday I had lightening on spear with serrated point and I was quickly aoe clearing each encounter.
mighty ermine
so a serrated point attack could either use up one or three, depending on how the game decides that
rigid narwhal
I'm not 100% sure on that.
It doesn't count as 3 attacks AFAIK, it just hits 3 times.. I would think.
half crater
Yeah after playing with it for a bit it was definitely only using 1 per dash attack
rigid narwhal
Would be nice if there was a mode you could unlock to test different builds in-between runs.
half crater
i just didnāt expect it to be that nice to me lol
rigid narwhal
I think the logic is that the dash attack itself counts as 1 attack action but it hits 3 times
Similar to the gun special that allows you to fire a volley of 5(?)
It still counts as 1 shot for things like chaos boons
mighty ermine
i don't play achilles very often, more of a hades aspect guy, so this is actually good to know
serrated point is one of my favorite hammers in the game
half crater
i have a love hate relationship with it
rigid narwhal
I mean there's never really a bad time to take it imo
half crater
itās unquestionably fantastic, but iām really bad at managing the reduced dash distance
mighty ermine
ah, yeah you just get used to it after a while
half crater
i still pick it up almost every time
mighty ermine
in some cases it's actually beneficial to better control your movement, like in EM2 lernie
half crater
yeah iām hoping iāll get the hang of it eventually
cunning urchin
Serrated Edge with RI3 can be pretty difficult.
half crater
oof
i hadnāt even thought of that
thankfully i can delay RI3 for a good while yet
cunning urchin
Yeah, we don't really pick RI3 on high heat until 50-ish.
half crater
good to know
most of the heat options that scare me iāve at least attempted seriously a few times, but RI3-4 iāve just pretended donāt exist
cunning urchin
I don't really like Greatshields all that much with RI3, but otherwise it's fun.
half crater
aside from the obligatory couple of yolo runs
cunning urchin
With Hestia you can pick RI3 at any heat, though.
cunning urchin
All the damage comes from a single quick shot, so the aspect is way more mobile than any other.
And it has a lot of range, so you don't get need to get close to anything.
cunning urchin
Arguably the best weapon for boss fights. But you would avoid JS CP DC with Hestia. It's too slow at clearing waves.
Assuming you run TD2, anyway.
half crater
fair enough
itās getting pretty high of my list of āweapons iāve been ignoring for too longā so iāll prolly sit down and try to git gud with it pretty soon
cunning urchin
Well, it still takes some good fundamental skills to clear with just a single dash. But you're not stuck in attack animations anywhere near as much as with other aspects, so you're almost always free to dash when you need to.
It's important to walk before you reload.
If you stand still and reload, you can't move during the animation. But if you're already walking, you can keep moving.
half crater
oohhh
thatās really good to know
i was just thinking that i wasnāt actually sure whether reloading froze you or not, and this is probably why
i was just sometimes able to move and sometimes not and didnāt know the reason i guess lol
thanks for that
cunning urchin
Sure.
You'll want to look for Piercing Fire or Explosive Shot. Ricochet Fire can be good, too.
half crater
sure, will do
i think youād have to go weapon by weapon
or aspect by aspect really
rigid narwhal
I dunno.. I think for some it doesn't matter.
For example.. Athena's Dash I would put in S tier.
Maybe I'm a noob..
half crater
zeus attack is crazy for lucifer but meh for hestia
rigid narwhal
But it seems like it's always a good pick and has so much potential damage...
half crater
okay yeah divine dash is just fantastic all the time
rigid narwhal
What build would you NOT want it on? Right?
rigid narwhal
You still want the ability to deflect on dash for bows.. I think
I mean, yeah.. I guess?
cunning urchin
I'd say look at the spreadsheet pinned in #h1-high-heat-strategies. That lists all the 40+ heat clears that have been recorded with video links.
half crater
itās nice to have, but dash attack is absurdly good for bows
cunning urchin
The meta always tends to shift in the direction that we push it on high heat runs or speedrunners in speedruns.
rigid narwhal
For call, I am torn between Aphrodite and Artemis.. I think the big burst of damage is generally just amazing vs bosses.. although admittedly less so against a lot of small mobs
half crater
dunno what the meta is but arty is my least favourite call lol
cunning urchin
Artemis' Aid is probably bottom tier for calls if there's a bottom tier.
rigid narwhal
Why?
rigid narwhal
Oh really? I thought it did a lot if all hit, which against bosses they seem to.
Aphrodite is the single highest burst of damage, right?
cunning urchin
rigid narwhal
So, Aphrodite does 2500, Artemis does 2210 when both are maxed out.
Poseidon's I find too finnicky.
cunning urchin
Dionysus' Aid, Zeus' Aid, and Poseidon's Aid are top tier in damage.
rigid narwhal
They're DOT though, which is why I tend to not like them as much.. although I will definitely take Zeus's if I see it.
cunning urchin
DOT is fine. You'll rarely want to use a Greater Call over Lesser Calls, anyway.
rigid narwhal
Really? I rarely use lesser calls.
On bosses specifically I always save up for the greater
cunning urchin
You get i-frames on call activation. That alone is good reason to use 4 Lesser Calls over 1 Greater Call.
tranquil knot
I've never had trouble smacking things with Poseidon's call reliably
cunning urchin
Me either.
rigid narwhal
Oh I have.. I feel like the hit detection is wonky.
tranquil knot
Hell I beat my first run by smacking the final boss with his greater call
rigid narwhal
Or maybe I just have a bad idea of where the hit box of certain bosses is
tranquil knot
you just gotta aim for the MEAT
rigid narwhal
Well, actually now that I think about it I think it's less about hitbox and more that I feel like you have to move OUT of the boss then back into them
Where instead I wanna just swim around inside of their box.
half crater
i donāt think itās wonky, tho it is a bit harder to control on KBM
cunning urchin
You can't hit an enemy immediately again with it after hitting them once. There's like a 200-ms-or-something grace period, apparently.
But the damage is very high, you can move around very fast, and you have full invincibility for the duration.
rigid narwhal
yeah
cunning urchin
Dionysus' Aid is the best call for DPS, and it actually does a lot more damage if you use Lesser Calls than if you use a Greater Call.
Hangover stacks are capped, after all.
So you get more out of it that way.
half crater
#smolderingairftw
cunning urchin
Hai.
rigid narwhal
Any consensus on the best Keepsake?
static jacinth
"Best" is an ephemeral and pointless concept with keepsakes.
There is best in X situation.
rigid narwhal
Okay..top 3? Top 5?
cunning urchin
I have that Smoldering Air in almost all of my sub-32 run.
static jacinth
Not a concept that exists.
rigid narwhal
So you're telling me you have no preferences for keepsakes what-so-ever?
static jacinth
I don't keep a single keepsake for the whole run most of the time. So... Yeah?
rigid narwhal
When you start a run, you're not inclined to pick a specific keepsake more often than not?
static jacinth
I swap god keepsakes when I want to get that god's boons.
half crater
i almost never use less than 4 in a run
static jacinth
I start with a god boon if I want the god or the purse or the shackles.
rigid narwhal
Interesting.
static jacinth
Acorn is my most common relic, I guess? Because it's good for the last zone.
cunning urchin
It depends way too much on aspects and pacts.
rigid narwhal
Shackles to make all of your unupgraded moves do more?
half crater
i mean, actually yeah i am inclined towards specific ones, but itās depending on the aspect iām using and what build iām going for
cunning urchin
god > god > acorn > acorn
god > coin purse > acorn > acorn
god > acorn > acorn > acorn
That's the high-heat meta.
rigid narwhal
What about Plume, or Bracer, Or Shawl, or Butterfly?
cunning urchin
Fringe tactics at high heat.
rigid narwhal
I generally run Plume w/ Fists, Shawl with most melee, Distant Memory with bow, etc.
Maybe Butterfly for shield.
cunning urchin
Owl Pendant > acorn x3
Owl Pendant > Pointed Arrowhead > acorn x2
That's what I use for Malphon at high heat.
But I might adjust in Asphodel depending on the run.
Most people, I think, copy my Malphon builds or Resqtoaster's, so I guess that's half the Malphon meta.
rigid narwhal
What heat you playing at?
cunning urchin
My highest heat is 52.
cunning urchin
Divine Strike + Hunter Dash + Support Fire + Deadly Reversal or just simply Divine Strike + Divine Dash is what I run. Resqtoaster likes Curse of Agony + Divine Dash + Merciful End the most, I think.
rigid narwhal
Is doom pretty much amazing for slower attacks and such or is it just me?
cunning urchin
Actually no. Slow attacks tend to hit hard and benefit way more from +% boons.
Lightning Strike can be really good, but there's no meaningful Duo synergy with Lady Athena, and you'll definitely want Divine Dash if you're not running Divine Strike on Malphon.
rigid narwhal
I meant in general not just on Malphon.
cunning urchin
Malphon's attack isn't slow, though.
rigid narwhal
I think maybe I didn't explain myself properly.
cunning urchin
Malphon's base damage is low, so Curse of Agony actually ends up doing the highest DPS on Malphon.
rigid narwhal
I see
cunning urchin
Well, it's neck-and-neck with Lightning Strike and Heartbreak Strike in single-target damage, but the more enemies you have, the farther Curse of Agony pulls ahead.
rigid narwhal
I like it on my Special on the Spear.
Or on primary attack on bow.
Shoot through several enemies, apply it to them all
cunning urchin
Coronacht benefits more from high +% attack boons.
rigid narwhal
But you're saying that's not as good because you want the bonus % to attack from like, Aphrodite?
cunning urchin
Yeah.
Heartbreak Strike or Deadly Strike is what you want ideally.
Personally, I run Heartbreak Strike + Zeus' Aid + Smoldering Air pretty much always on bow.
And either Hunter Dash or Divine Dash.
For spear, @mighty ermine can help you more. Although I'm not sure if he plays any spear but Hades Aspect now . . .
I need sleep, anyway. Good night! 
rigid narwhal
I think so far Spear may be my favorite weapon.. but I'm only at about heat 5-6
G'nite Nyaa
Thanks for the help.
reef galleon
how does one make use of the zeus aspect on shield?
I can't imagine how devastating it is to see its Poseidon special where the disc is just pushing away enemies from its own damage
static jacinth
Make it chase you around through enemies.
Tempest Flourish is not good on it, no.
reef galleon
Are there specific hammer upgrades for it?
By the time the disc arrives to me I usually have already killed everybody considering how mobile everything is
static jacinth
It doesn't have specific upgrades.
reef galleon
what a shame
my plan was to have a poseidon attack so that I could push enemies into the disc.
Let's say that it sounded way better in my head.
thorn jolt
can you get curse of drowning AND blizzard shot duos?
dry ember
unfortunately no.
visual holly
||Best part about Piercing Wave is the unique dialogue when you face Wavemakers.||
toxic vector
A bit new to hades does rare crop affect only the boons picked up before picking up said demeter boon or does it affect all boons
half crater
Rare crop randomly chooses 1-3 boons (based on rarity)
toxic vector
I just unlocked the malphon. Is there anything I should be on the lookout for?
fallen mirage
@static nova have you tried Achilles Spear Crystal Beam? Damage can get pretty nutty, I've seen it almost break 5 digits
half crater
the number of boons it chooses is based on rarity (1 for common, 2 for rare, 3 for epic) but which boons it chooses is still random
upper salmon
...lmao I entirely misread what that () was meant to modify
half crater
it was probably not my best constructed sentence
dry ember
@upbeat smelt let me grab the wall of text
RNG in a computer isn't truly random. When you "get a random number" you're really just stepping forward through a predetermined sequence of numbers. That means that if you can track the number of times you've called for a new number, you can figure out where you are in that sequence.
When you walk through a door in Hades, a few things happen:
- The room you entered, including the tile, enemies, and boon rewards, are generated
- The next rewards are semi-decided (for example, Poseidon is chosen but not the rewards he'll give you)
- A new seed is generated based on a combination of your current seed and your RNG value, and that new seed replaces your current one.
When the doors unlock, your rng value is reset to the value it had when you walked into the room. This means that any calls that you made during the duration of the encounter don't matter.
There are a few manipulations that we know have a fixed number of calls:
- A cast landing on the ground causes 1 RNG Call
- Breaking a pot causes 1 RNG call
- Summoning causes 2 RNG calls the first time you do it, and 1 each time after that
- Charon groaning at you causes 1 RNG call
There are others, but those are the most commonly used
Because our RNG resets when doors unlock, we can 'step through' the next rooms/rewards by testing a value, then reloading the save and testing the next value, and so on, until we find the 'perfect' next chamber. Then we do that for each room, until we have a route from start to finish.
Seeded vs Non-Seeded is something that we're working on distinguishing for the leaderboards. The problem we run into is that no matter how we cut it, you can't 100% verify that a run is unseeded. Kane, who used to do a ton of routing, had a run routed that used almost no manipulation, beyond taking the correct doors. If he spent more time on it, he could have gotten it to look completely natural. Because of how strong a route is compared to an unseeded run, a routed run would completely dominate the unseeded leaderboards, and we would have no way to prove it was routed. We're looking at a bunch of different solutions to the problem, but for right now we're holding out for that 1% chance that SGG just solves the problem for us somehow.
Not written by me but by @fallen mirage
fallen mirage
the route passes through 39 timed chambers - only 5 of which are normal combat chambers. The rest are Chaos, Shops, Styx tunnels, Minibosses, or Bosses. It maximizes efficiency of rooms where time is stopped by putting them at the last possible chamber per biome. It is hard to imagine a route getting any more efficient than this one is, to be honest. I have a feeling that a lot of the time will be saved by finding more efficient manips and just getting better at the combat itself.
Here's the vod of my run: https://youtu.be/0LgjiCUR_9Y
Here's the vod of Vorime's 3:51: https://youtu.be/jpDS4RJIcE0
dry ember
It's ok. I'm happy to wait until later Fall.
fallen mirage
I would offer to route 58 heat for you, but that means grinding up a Hell Mode save to max, and you know, me actually knowing how to play above 15 heat
dry ember
I do intend to have a "perfect" save on Hell Mode. But I'm waiting for full release.
Maybe one of those days.
Anyhow, time for sleep.
fallen mirage
perfect as in 100% complete or perfect as in 100% winrate?
Because one of those things is harder than the other
dry ember
I won't do mega fresh file lol. More like a "reasonable" pace. 1st clear after 10-15 runs.
The maintain 100% win rate to 100% completion
fallen mirage
Save scumming allowed, or nah?
Imagine if you made it to like 99% complete, and then were playing Eris Rail with Hazard Bomb and your controller died during the Hades Fight
dry ember
I'll try not to abuse give up.
fallen mirage
That would be terrible, truly
fallen mirage
It's okay, I died in my race against Vor, we're basically twins now
But anyway, Night 
finite igloo
eris rail is my favorite rail tbh.. can't get used to lucifer aspect
and the hestia one feels kinda eh, but also was maybe hindered by running with Damage Control on
What do you guys suggest on Nemesis? I really have no idea what decent boons are for it - I've been running it with just Plume and building whatever, but now that I'm getting to 20ish heat, i kinda wanna have a better idea of what to run with
fallen mirage
BOY DO I HAVE SOME TIPS FOR YOU
cunning urchin
Hestia is easily one of the very best aspects at clearing any heat. But yeah, you'll want to avoid DC with it.
finite igloo
i know its good i just haven't messed with it much
fallen mirage
This is the closest thing to a perfect Nemesis build that I'm aware of https://discordapp.com/channels/456889434672201729/725021639506526249/754488603299807314
cunning urchin
Nemesis build for high heat is just Deflect on everything tbh.
fallen mirage
You'll want to take Meg keepsake, although at high heat you might prefer Sisyphus? @cunning urchin can answer that one better
cunning urchin
You mean Bouldy?
cunning urchin
High heat meta is LC4 + Stubborn Defiance at the moment.
finite igloo
i use bouldy most of the time, yeah, just real versatile
cunning urchin
So yeah, Bouldy wouldn't be a real option.
I like Antos, personally. But Meg is a great option.
finite igloo
haven't used antos yet, honestly
fallen mirage
I have made it to Tiny Vermin a single time with 32 heat, and beyond that haven't played above 15 heat. So my advice for high-heat might be a bit lacking. But for general Nemesis, you'll want to build some variation of AAA
At lower heats/higher skill, you'll want to weight that farther towards Artemis/Aphrodite. For higher heats/lower skill, you'll want to weight it towards Aphrodite/Athena
finite igloo
does antos do 3000 damage if there's only one foe?
fallen mirage
As far as I'm aware, yes
finite igloo
hmm
cunning urchin
20 heat and 32 heat, you can still mostly build the same stuff as you would at 0 heat.
fallen mirage
They could also technically do 3000 to multiple enemies, if you get them directly on top of each other
I think they have a tiny AoE rather than a single target damage
cunning urchin
40+ heat melee builds are almost always Divine Strike or Divine Dash or both.
Yeah, you can hit Theseus and Asterius for 3k each if they're on top of each other, for example.
One simple reason I favor Antos is that you can't summon Meg vs the Furies.
finite igloo
does world splitter increase the dash strike damage on the sword
thought it might, but can also see why it wouldn't
main osprey
iirc, it only affects the Attack
barren otter
Got Ocean's Bounty in the midshop in Asphodel, got Sunken Treasure at the end of Asphodel, got Huge Catch in the 3rd chamber of Elysium. Total amount of fishing spots after picking it up: 1 (Styx).
main osprey
sounds about right
delicate sundial
Does the bow have a dash attack?
solar gorge
yea, charges faster, does less damage i believe
solar gorge
yea, if you do a dash charge, then try a normal charge you'll notice the difference
rigid narwhal
Man, the Rail with Rocket Bomb and Cluster Bombs is disgusting.
Had Atremis boon on my special, so it could crit, and full Zues upgrades on my Attack.. basically 1 shot non boss enemies at point blank. Using aspect of Eris
void fjord
lol i love the fact that the main attack builds for the rail stay quiet, and mostt of the time ppl are all abt the special
not saying its bad
just not for me, the special build that is
tranquil knot
Every time I've stacked damage on the nade it hasn't worked out, it's entirely contingent on getting the rocket upgrade to make it work
unkempt pagoda
could someone check if hunter dash works on shield's dashing special hammer
main osprey
I doubt that it would
Especially because that's not a proper "dash-special," it's a "dash + special"
static jacinth
Does it work on the dash-special in fists?
main osprey
I don't think it does?
finite igloo
I hate when you're on a seed and like
There's one Ares boon door in Tartarus, and I carefully avoid getting it because I don't want Ares boons really for what I've got
then you don't see him again in Asphodel or Elysium
then show up in Styx and there's two Ares boons in the shop and one on satyr door lol
I want more Hermes boons, darnit...
Rush Delivery + Hyper Sprint + Plume is just so much damage it feels like
v. fun
spark lotus
@simple solar although decreasing deflected damage of Divine Dash is better than increasing, I don't think it will do anything about it being insanely good. It would still be even if it just cancelled everything it currently deflects
is there any way to nerf it enough?
just curious
main osprey
Is there a problem with it being very strong? I don't know that it needs a serious nerf
simple solar
As long as other dashes are useful (arty on sword) its not an issue
spark lotus
it mostly eclipses other dashes which often offer interesting mechanics. in most build I would prefer not getting more dash strike, or pushing foes away, but have divine protection. I think it's unbalanced
finite igloo
i think Artemis Dash has a great place, and Tidal Dash is really strong
visual holly
I sometimes wonder whether it'd be healthier for the game if deflect only worked on ranged attacks.
finite igloo
Divine Dash probably isnāt ātoo strongā except high heats
imo...
i think the real dash problem is that passion dash, drunken dash and lightning dash all pretty underwhelming
mistral dash too
unkempt pagoda
free damage and status application is very nice
visual holly
I like some of those for getting privileged status easily.
finite igloo
even with all the lightning boons like double strike and stuff, zeus dash is blehh
spark lotus
haven't had much experience with lightning dash, but when I used it was quite damagy
Zeus and Ares dashes are good in melee builds in my experience, on low heat
finite igloo
and yeah, the rest pretty much only function to trigger privileged position
unkempt pagoda
lightning dash is probably the most underwhelming, but free damage and duo boon prereq
finite igloo
passion dash would be wayyy better if the hit area was shaped differently
unkempt pagoda
a full stack's worth of drunken dash is 160 damage, so eh on just triggering privileged
finite igloo
like if it reliably applied Weak in an area around your dash instead of in that piddly little spot in front
simple solar
passion dash would be wayyy better if the hit area was shaped differently
@finite igloo like a ā¤ļø lmao
My problem with devine dash is that its the "defacto" dash. Unless ur doing something specific (arty or PS) devine dash is the go to.
If you ask anyone they say they would still pick devine dash even if it had a damage reduction.
spark lotus
Yeah other dashes are niche, divine is the default
simple solar
So why not make devine more about "get outta ma way" and other ones more specific or damage orientated.
That's how I see it atleast
spark lotus
Would it be good if Divine Dash was chance-based?
finite igloo
No
unkempt pagoda
no
simple solar
No ty
unkempt pagoda
you still want the player to have fun
simple solar
That would be frustrating more than anything
spark lotus
Nothing's more frustrating than unlucky Hammer
unkempt pagoda
asterius charge on fo2 would like a word
finite igloo
none of the dashes can be chance based because a player has to know intimately what will happen when they dash
i think the degree to which divine dash does or doesnāt need to be changed depends entirely on if youāre balancing for high heats or not
i never felt super pressed to take divine dash early on even though i recognized its strength
simple solar
I think making other dashes better would be the best option here.
finite igloo
but when i am taking more damage, when you have stuff like the shockwave from the stone head miniboss with the middle manage,pment pact
when everything is moving faster with FO2
that deflect just gets better and better
simple solar
Yeah but the dmg from the dashes isn't as important tho.
So what if other dashes did way more dmg (or allowed for more dmg)
Then you have a choice between dmg or safety from deflect
finite igloo
can i just say how much i HATE the shockwave from the stonehead miniboss with middle management pact?
i swear i take more damage fighting him than hades
upper salmon
I despise that fight on mm
simple solar
I havent tried high heat yet. Up to 16 only rn
finite igloo
i just CANNOT consistently dodge it and idk why
upper salmon
sameeee
simple solar
Honestly, only reason I pick aphro dashe is when I desperately need PS and I dont have a dash yet.
And I think thats a shame.
Splash dash, arty dash and devine dash are all cool and good for me tho
unkempt pagoda
the dire skullcrusher shockwave has some jankiness associated with its hitbox
final boss wave hitboxes are pretty normal in comparison
finite igloo
yeah thats what i was wondering
im glad it isnāt just me
What is PS?
oh
nvm lol
spark lotus
what is PS?
digital vessel
privileged status
finite igloo
Yeah, I was just confused because I always call it Privileged Position (which is not its name, but is the name of a MtG card, so my brain always calls it that)
simple solar
I call nectar honey
Because
Honey
Ambrosia is big honey
I ended up being stupid and putting honey in a bug report
untold vortex
@spare iron the feedback channel is for posting feedback about the current Hades patch, please read the pinned messages in that channel in full before posting feedback, please and thankyou 
spare iron
@untold vortex there is a similar post above mine, 2-3 post above. That was my reasoning tbh
sorry, thought there would be the best place
toxic vector
do you guys prefer Olympian favor or dark foresight?
tulip obsidian
I prefer olympian favor
finite igloo
Past three runs, just... swamped by ares boon doors that I have no interest in haha
fleet comet
Just had a run using Twin Fists. Tempest Flourish + Typhoon's Fury + Flying Cutter just....
stacking that sweet sweet special damage
seemed really OP
karmic obsidian
guys i have a problem i never seen the dark foresight challenge i need it. how to obtain?
barren otter
dark foresight is a mirror upgrade (green alternative to olympian favor)
frank seal
When checking boon progression of each god, I see some "flare" things but I don't quite understand what they are.
main osprey
those are for || specific weapons ||
frank seal
uh, can I have some examples?
main osprey
|| Shield's fourth aspect (it's actually the only one, I mistyped) ||
barren otter
Just had a really really good Rama bow run (full Zeus on special + Than's butterfly), but lost it because it crashed when I bought a pom in Styx...
errant narwhal
you can recover your run if you havent started a new one yet by following the steps in #h1-tech-fixes
barren otter
thanks, it worked
spark lotus
Is it just me or the bow is weak? Building it with Aphro, even with Double Shot and Flurry Shot it's so underwhelming
Failing to beat 20 heat time after time
barren otter
use dashstrikes instead of normal attacks, they charge quicker (even though they do less damage)
spark lotus
Not sure how to do dash strikes on bow. Is it clicking in dash, or before or after? Do I charge or not?
half crater
if you click and hold immediately after dashing your power shot will charge faster
unkempt pagoda
it's like every other dash strike, dash -> attack
your shot will charge faster but do less damage
spark lotus
But the overall DPS will be better?
unkempt pagoda
yes, plus it's safer cause it keeps you mobile
hunter dash/chaos lunges will make up in damage loss anyways
drifting vale
@young ether you can pull up your boons anytime by pressing b
drifting vale
Like you dm'd them?
main osprey
no, like in #h1-discussion
drifting vale
Ah pinned post says to dicuss here so didnt check anywhere else
main osprey
Mm, true
main osprey
:D
ember magnet
Anyone know any decent builds for aspect of Arthur Stygius? I'm kinda having difficulties with the delays on its attacks/special
rigid urchin
Anyone know any decent builds for aspect of Arthur Stygius? I'm kinda having difficulties with the delays on its attacks/special
@ember magnet stack health, basically. Attacks are slow as molasses but deal hella damage, so make it so you're practically invincible
ember magnet
Athena/Poseidon for attack boons?
rigid urchin
thick skin is a must from the mirror, and bringing the cerberus collar as your keepsake is pretty good (at least for the temple of styx, up to you what you bring before then)
poseidon no, cuz pushing them out of your attack range before you can get a decent combo is not good news. Athena is a great choice for attack boon, but really any boon that boosts damage
best choice might be demeter since chill will slow your enemies while you whale on them
bronze sorrel
Anyone know if Rush Delivery is flat or percent damage? Also, is move speed percentage addative like with crit chance? Description only says what percent of your move speed is added. Like if I have Zagreus Sword for 25% speed and Greater Haste for 30%, and I get Rush Delivery, will my thrust (base damage 30, assume no other variables) do 85 damage, 76 damage or some other number if the movespeed isn't addative that I'm not willing to do the math for?
Oh also assume epic (100%) rush delivery for the sake of easy math
ember magnet
IIRC from my testing, the movement speed bonus % translates to bonus % damage
In epic case, 30% bonus ms would be 30% bonus damage I guess?
bronze sorrel
And is movespeed additive?
bronze sorrel
I hope so, I really don't wanna do that math :/
wintry lodge
i think all +X%s in any one category always add additively, including dodge. if you have +15% from one source and +20% from another, it's +35%. damage +% damage in particular comes from many different sources, including privileged status, backstab, mirror talents, boons, that hermes boon, aphrodite +% damage on weak, etc, and it all adds up additively if i understand correctly. that's why +% damage has diminishing returns as you keep stacking it, and that's why getting crit or +% attack speed is good because it means your dps increases multiplicatively
maybe dodge stacks multiplicatively to prevent you from getting to 100% dodge, idk š
cunning urchin
@spark lotus your Dash-Strike Power Shots with Coronoacht will do more damage than your regular Power Shots because you can add more damage to them with Hunter Dash and Lunge boons from Master Chaos.
Entering Tartarus with the Pointed Arrowhead to get Hunter Dash asap is common because of that.
If you're starting off with Heartbreak Strike instead, you'd want to aim for Smoldering Air. Coronacht builds God Gauge very very slowly, so Smoldering Air makes a big difference. But even then, you'd still want to grab Hunter Dash, ideally.
bronze sorrel
i think all +X%s in any one category always add additively, including dodge. if you have +15% from one source and +20% from another, it's +35%. damage +% damage in particular comes from many different sources, including privileged status, backstab, mirror talents, boons, that hermes boon, aphrodite +% damage on weak, etc, and it all adds up additively if i understand correctly. that's why +% damage has diminishing returns as you keep stacking it, and that's why getting crit or +% attack speed is good because it means your dps increases multiplicatively
@wintry lodge
Ya, I was under the impression dodge was additive, but someone corrected me the other day, I guess its something where there's two stats called dodge and bonus dodge and only one is additive.
spark lotus
@cunning urchin thanks! was aiming for divine dash until now
outer plume
anyone know what the best aspect for the sheild is im relatively new
half crater
chaos
takes a few upgrades before it really starts to get good, but then itās crazy
outer plume
oh thank god thats the one im trying out atm
unkempt pagoda
chaos is the easiest for highest return
zag is very nice for attack/dash attack builds (pulverizing blow and dashing wallop come to mind)
zeus is a very different playstyle than what most are used to, but it can be very, very good in the right hands (and the right boons, such as thunder flourish)
the hidden aspect ||beowulf|| is literally broken with charged special lol
outer plume
what about keepsakes ive just been using the one that gives max life havent had much experience with the other ones
unkempt pagoda
that one is okay, but not exactly meta
normally i go purse/god keepsakes for the first 2 biomes, then switch to acorn for elysium and styx
spearpoint is also a good defensive boon, and if you're feeling insecure, you can switch to tooth for an extra life
personally, i find the defensive keepsakes outweigh the offensive ones, but it's player preference in the end
young ether
Keepsake, or even weapon, we recommend you to try them all out
covert hatch
Question: does the dash-attack from Rolling Knuckle apply the armor shred from the hammer upgrade whose name escapes me (dash strike does 900% damage to armor)?
main osprey
It should
glass rapids
@autumn salmon wdym they dont stack? all these effects do work at once, like doom and jolted can both proc(which is the entire basis of privileged status)
autumn salmon
I mean each instance seperately
i will have to rewrite a bit but i mean each instance of said status.
If you have a fast weapon doom only applies once most of the time
autumn salmon
well, i tried it out on skelly and only 1 blood does additional damage but not the other 2.
Though that could just be me reading it that way.
glass rapids
it just says extra damage to foes that have (insert bloodstone) in them
seems to be clear enough that it means bloodstone(s)
but sure
autumn salmon
well i tried 2 stones on skelly but only had extra damage from 1 stone.
glass rapids
thats how its supposed to work yes
half crater
also not sure what you mean about needing 8 gods for family favourite to compete with privileged status?
autumn salmon
(tho tbh, it would be mental if 3 stones worked as its 120% extra damage if it did work on how i'd imagine it)
Different person
half crater
lmao your names both begin with A lol sorry
glass rapids
the boiling blood thing could be rephrased, but the doom and jolted thing seems pretty obvious once you observe it while fighting
half crater
@thorn jolt family favourite bonus applies all the time, privileged status applies under a certain set of circumstances, so it should be a better bonus
glass rapids
also about that pact+dark thirst thing, why would the pact of punishment offer an advantage based on dark thirst
half crater
yeah it would be absolutely crazy if doom/jolted stacked
i never even considered that they would
glass rapids
yeah, plus there's dire misfortune and cold fusion to make it clearer
glass rapids
what advantage?
thorn jolt
the pact offers loot?
glass rapids
That's just the reward for beating bosses
thorn jolt
I thought it was a bonus to darkness, gems, keys
glass rapids
I mean how would the pact reward anything related to dark thirst
thorn jolt
I was just musing with that one, mostly because I wanted a reason to play with some pact conditions I normally am hesitant to try because of the difficulty spike you know
glass rapids
the reward for taking on heat is the bounties
thorn jolt
when you exhaust all bounties though
glass rapids
you get darkness then?
half crater
it isnāt about the darkness (for me at least; i didnāt post the feedback ofc) but the game giving you an idea of how to mix things up
glass rapids
i dont get why that should have anything to do with the pact
thorn jolt
in my experience, i sorta just find the pact conditions i can handle and stick with them, but if i had an incentive to try different conditions out, then it'll add more variety of the game
half crater
maybe it shouldnāt provide any bonus and just be a fun randomiser idk
autumn salmon
Sounds like a "daily run" kind of idea with randomly set conditions
glass rapids
ok nvm im dumb and i misunderstood it
half crater
i could imagine them working in a story thing for it, like Skelly (or someone) challenging you
thorn jolt
ooh @autumn salmon that's such a great idea
glass rapids
random pact conditions = more dark thirst
half crater
Sounds like a "daily run" kind of idea with randomly set conditions
yeah this
glass rapids
yeah there was a daily run idea
glass rapids
a leaderboard wouldnt make sense here
unless its a time one
plus the way rng can be manipulated for a given seed is kinda weird
half crater
iirc theyāve said they arenāt going to do a daily challenge with a leaderboard and stuff at launch, as theyāre focusing on the offline/single player game
half crater
but i still want one so bad
so maybe they could do it without the leaderboard? idk i can dream
autumn salmon
for a daily run the rooms could already be set as well as pact conditions but trinkets can manipulate a few instances but thats still limited. plus you'd equip the best trinket anyways in styx.
half crater
plus the way rng can be manipulated for a given seed is kinda weird
people are hoping SGG will find a way to make it verifiable if people did routing in 1.0
glass rapids
you can tell just from the video though
thorn jolt
what is routing?
glass rapids
why does that matter
autumn salmon
Heat tiers should also be considered so players can duke it out on their skill level rather than being yeeted way outside their comfort zone.
for dailies
autumn salmon
like, heat is already making a difference of itself vs other popular roguelikes such as Binding of isaac, slay the spire etc.
Since it already sets a difficulty tier depending on what gets heated even.
in regards if you'd look at dailies there
thorn jolt
random aside: When a boon says "Special Damage +40%", this means the special is doing 1.4x damage right? But what happens if you get a Chaos boon that buffs it like "Special +80%". Does this mean your effective damage is
1.4 * 1.8
or
1 + (0.4 + 0.8)
half crater
% bonuses in this game are additive
so itād go up to 2.2x damage
dodge bonus i think maybe is an exception to the additive rule? no one seems sure
but for damage itās definitely additive
autumn salmon
this is why people keep adding feedback to a test chamber
half crater
yeah lol
honestly i just want something (maybe in the boon screen) that just straight up gives you the numbers
thatās been feedbacked a few times also
autumn salmon
Tick box: add theorycraftpron numbers
thorn jolt
yeah just a stats breakdown page would be choice
half crater
and that way they donāt have to work out how to add a test chamber into the story
autumn salmon
well, we do have underworld renovations for it. but can imagine the skelly room becoming cluttery af then.
i mean more like. underworld renovations could be used for it*
half crater
they could certainly fit it in, yeah
but this way would be easier, and i think better much of the time
unless folks wanna test out boons and such i guess
autumn salmon
saves art resources as well as additional programming ye.
half crater
yeah that too
autumn salmon
if not for SGG, someone else will take it up to make a parser or math it out.
Addenum. havent played since december steam release. came back to it a few days back, made a new save and getting my arse handed to me by last boss 
in the meantime my old save had several clears š
Not sure if they changed the hydra since december 
half crater
yeah the hydra was reworked
it used to have 3 invincibility phases, now it has 2 but theyāre harder
autumn salmon
also made it colourblind friendlier by adding horns? I saw that their faces changed
half crater
yeah theyāre now several different lernies with different attack patterns
signified by different colours/horns
i think there was someone working on a mod for the numbers, but iām not sure if they got anywhere with it
but youāre right, someone will do one someday
i would myself if i understood how computers worked :p
autumn salmon
it all started with zeroes and ones
half crater
so iām told
cunning urchin
Question: does the dash-attack from Rolling Knuckle apply the armor shred from the hammer upgrade whose name escapes me (dash strike does 900% damage to armor)?
@covert hatch nope.
autumn salmon
coming back to daily runs, would random aspects be interesting or nah? can imagine some people would never try x aspect of y weapon.
small stirrup
I think we all have tried every aspect at least once because curiosity, but I would like a pure randomizer to just make my runs a bit more spicy.
half crater
would you randomise keepsakes
and if you did, would they be randomised every zone or just the first?
i'm not sure
autumn salmon
what if you opt for change during zone transition? with ofc a conformation screen
half crater
i feel like getting randomly handed chaos egg in styx would be cute at first and then get old fast
yeah maybe
i feel like maybe the best way is to just have it set for tartarus, and then you can switch out as normal.
problem is that doesn't break people out of the routine of choosing acorn/tooth for styx and/or elysium, and breaking routines is the whole point of this
autumn salmon
i think random switch might be better then. tho getting a useless trinket can screw you over. but part of the RNG.
half crater
ok what about this: all four are set in stone, but you get to know which ones you're getting for each zone when you start
so if you're getting egg in styx, you at least know that and it isn't a slap in the face at the end
autumn salmon
that'd be interesting
half crater
i feel like i'd be okay with it if i knew going in
then it becomes a fun, opt in challenge
autumn salmon
insert slot machine for the trinkets showing up for your run
half crater
lol yeah
reef galleon
That's honestly not that bad of an idea
autumn salmon
the issue would be incentive for casual player vs players that want a challenge.
aside from the experience of breaking the habit.
autumn salmon
hmmm true.
half crater
either challenge to get to the end or challenge to a high score/fast run
autumn salmon
I mean. the devs also have new endgame mechanics waiting for us at 1.0 so there would probably be something else besides the contract.
half crater
that's why there's usually leaderboards
something else that changes up future runs?
i guess maybe
i honestly have fairly little idea what's coming tbh
autumn salmon
i am not entirely sure aside from SGG having a lot of hidden plans for 1.0 according to the recent Noclip episode.
so i am curious as to what that is
aside from. you know, the end of the story
half crater
yeah same
they've said it'll be at the high end when compared to their early access updates, and some of those added a whole pile of stuff
gonna be fun
reef galleon
Sincerely hope the stuff includes a gun that shoots shields
half crater
a... gun that shoots shields?
not sure what that would even mean but i'm down for it
half crater
wrong game... for now
autumn salmon
Wouldnt the adamant rail with Athena basically be that gun?
half crater
its not the same unless they bounce around, i think
i'm imagining this like a rapid fire chaos shield
which would be a totally balanced and reasonable addition to the game
autumn salmon
was there a no reload mod for exagryph? i cant remember
autumn salmon
do remember having had a good run with it that had rapid fire and Artemis's "every time you hit, shoot arrow"
So it burned down REDACTED
ah
half crater
its called Delta Chamber now: don't have to reload, but fire in a 3 round burst
autumn salmon
that sounds pretty fair.
half crater
i think they went a bit too far the other way tbh
but it did need toning down for sure
autumn salmon
Do notice i have been having a harder time now than i had during steam launch.
could have given a damage penalty? or inaccuracy
half crater
so have i, but i don't know if that's because i'm running an order of magnitude more heat now lol
or even range idk
there'd have to be some way of doing it
autumn salmon
who knows.
This save i still need to unlock the pact 
Feeling rusty and maybe not use every weapon every run
half crater
i swear asphodel's harder, actually
autumn salmon
damn regret not taking dash strike from chaos now. as artemis just gave me 100% damage boost
autumn salmon
still having not looked into builds but. static discharge or double strike
Aegis
Also feel like that got nerfed inbetween xD
half crater
static discharge is great
but double strike is also amazing, and it qualifies you for splitting bolt
the shield? not sure
i didn't use it much back then
autumn salmon
ah
Going for double strike and hope for splitting bolt.
Just need Demeters DoT now so my main attack becomes meaner
half crater
do it
autumn salmon
do you mean the witches circle that made asphodel harder?
half crater
the bone rakers and the little burrowing hydra heads are what i mean, mostly
the witches circle used to mess me up as well, but now i'm pretty good at dealing with it
and its nothing compared to power couple so i'm usually relieved if it comes up lol
half crater
yeah they not friendly
autumn salmon
Rare crop good to pick up before hydra? last time it came up i was at the duo heroes and felt like a very underwhelming boon to take.
half crater
i'd say yeah
autumn salmon
else its arctic blast or ravenous will but the former is a bit underwhelming when using shield
half crater
the main issue with taking it late is usually less that it won't give you a buff and more that its unlikely to hit the things you want i think
yeah i'd go for rare crop with those choices
half crater
nice
half crater
@late peak @ornate chasm re: your feedbacks
yāall may already know but that already kinda happens.
If you have a boon from a deity, youāre more likely to get more boons from them.
late peak
oh for real? Didn't know hat. Probably didn't really feel like it since it's not in the description š my bad then.
late peak
Thanks for the info š
main osprey
It'd be good to have an interactable in the weapons room that shows the most recent Victory screen; as far as I'm aware, it's only currently able to be seen immediately after defeating REDACTED.
In particular, the middle-right panel is a succinct overview and directs me to which weapon I have the lowest Heat on if I want to get more of the rare currencies; or the weapon with my slowest clear time if I want to work on my speed.
@ornate chasm While you can't see the full victory screen, all of that information is available in the Administrative Chamber
spice rover
The admin chamber only shows the most recent run, right?
main osprey
Nope
It shows a lot of information
There should be arrows to click to the side, to look back through your records
And there's the second filing cabinet, that has totally different information
spice rover
oh can you go back further? I just unlocked it and have only checked it a few times. I know the interaction thing on the right shows the run specifics, like boons and whatnot, then the left gives you overall stats, didn't realize I could scroll to other past runs in the right one. Will have to look more closely at it next time.
main osprey
Yup
upper salmon
in the witches circle with mm, what do the special orbs even do
unkempt pagoda
indestructible
magic dagger
they deal damage
wintry lodge
i think they're still deflectable though?
main osprey
I don't think they're destroyed by normal attacks?
half crater
yeah, indestructible but still deflectable
omg imagine if they were indeflectable
i would cry
my noob strats athena would not save me
magic dagger
imagine if there was a variety of projectile that is indestructible and indeflectable
oh wait
there is
if you deflect a splitter ball, the smaller projectiles when it splits can't be deflected or destroyed
and they can still deal damage to you
main osprey
That...sounds like a bug
half crater
yeah rip my noob strats
magic dagger
it's always been like that and I hate it
half crater
yeah ācause itās like, destroy it would have been better why you hate me athena
half crater
wait does it not happen to you?
half crater
yeah i did a double take too lol
magic dagger
"Sweet Disinfecting Syrup of the Gods" was too many characters 
main osprey
They die too quickly for me to care
half crater
sounds like you need more calisthenics program in your life
magic dagger
it's obnoxious when you clear a whole room and then a random piece of shrapnel that came from a projectile you already deflected damages you.
I got mad and put it in feedback a couple months ago when I lost a DD
main osprey
Usually running at least 1 level in it, though you're not wrong
magic dagger
main osprey
Yup, and I upvoted that
half crater
i upvoted it just now
unkempt pagoda
huh, i always thought the smaller ones were just considered deflected on their own
main osprey
I used to, but then I took a splitter to the knee
half crater
i feel like out of context that would sound like youād chopped your leg off with an axe
main osprey
Hahaha
upper salmon
yeah i hate that splitter ball bug
livid aurora
Do you guys have tips for reaching the surface with exagryph hidden aspect ? (I'm on 6 heat) I really struggle with that one and it seems that I can't figure how to use the special right
I'm level 1 on this aspect too
magic dagger
levelling the special makes it deal more damage, for one
most people build around zeus attack
livid aurora
That's what I thought I almost had the chance to have athena boons for attack but it was suppressed because of the contract
main osprey
Zeus special is also good, because you don't have to worry about blowing them up manually
livid aurora
The fact that it doesn't suppress enemy projectiles make it really hard to play imo
livid aurora
I didn't notice then thanks for the advices
main osprey
(which only really works with Divine Strike, I'm not sure if that works in general)
reef galleon
@livid aurora You can relatively successfully make use of exagryph's hidden aspect special via Dionysus' cast. In that way it kinda works like a fourth cast charge with slightly altered effects that is triggered by your actual cast.
This is honestly the only surefire tactic I've come up with regarding this special
cunning urchin
I'm like 99% sure that deflected splitter projectiles cannot harm you in any way.
Probably just getting hit by other projectiles.
magic dagger
the secondary orbs that split off of them can hurt you
it happens especially often after clearing resource rooms
drifting vale
If you want to big brain it the special cant be walked through so you can dash through them and leave a mine field everywhere just let REDACTED die from them
gray lintel
they detonate each other, meaning you can throw them around, lure enemies into them, then blow up the whole field. It especially shines with any sort of special boosting hammer.
drifting vale
Does anyone know how the damage calculation with loaded bloodstone aspects works? Because it doesnt seem like the stone actually injects into enemies so im not sure if you can get the bonus damage from the mirror
gray lintel
Hazard bomb is... interesting, I would not recommend it unless you're brave of heart 
drifting vale
Me with eris
gray lintel
Like with the hidden aspect for exagryph I can confirm that hazard bomb DOES WORK. You can launch it away from yourself. However only the very tip of the beam can detonate it without hurting yourself, the radius is that big. it's uh
it's definitely fun
drifting vale
Nice
main osprey
First run with that aspect I went Hazard Bomb
drifting vale
Ill have to try that one run
main osprey
Finished with 3 HP
gray lintel
and you can do like over a thousand damage with a single detonation of it
buuut you also do like 8 damage to yourself when it detonates
drifting vale
Alecto would be proud
gray lintel
from what I've seen the best tactic is mostly timing because it can be primed to detonate before it hits the ground, giving you a tiny window to dash out
you can also throw them everywhere, where they'll last almost forever, then set off the chain of screen sized explosions from a safe distance away. It may be easier with Dionysus cast.
drifting vale
Probably but i wanna know if zues cast and bounce between them
main osprey
Also Thunder Flourish will explode the special for you
drifting vale
It denotes itself?
main osprey
Ish
drifting vale
Thats awesome
gray lintel
Basically any damage to it in an AOE triggers it. Sometimes they can also be triggered by enemies walking through.
main osprey
Or by enemy attacks
gray lintel
Technically it also does damage every pulse, but that seems unreliable.
main osprey
They just have a certain amount of health
gray lintel
More reliable is triple bomb, because it lets you toss out clusters that you detonate. From what I've seen, the explosion radius is like twice the range of the pulses it sends out.
actually according to the wiki, identical radius to regular special
regardless: yeah you either focus the laser on someone for single target, or throw a bomb in front of enemies and asplode it. It deals significantly more damage than the base rail, but it has long startup times.
young ether
Rocket is disable when you have Lucifer right?
gray lintel
i do not know 
reef galleon
shame
imagine rockets that don't explode on impact ahh yes. It would actually work like theseus' rockets on EM3
unkempt pagoda
hammers that change base damage arenāt usually available for hidden aspects
in fact, i donāt think thereās a single one, unless something is slipping past my mind
main osprey
Exceedingly minor: killing a boss, fade to black for the death blood pool, interface elements disappear... Except if you happen to kill with the final bullet of the rail, and the reload bar appears despite everything else going away.
@ornate chasm (from #hades-feedback ) That actually sounds like a bugāI'd report it in-game
ornate chasm
@main osprey Ah. I'm streaming from my PC in another room to my Nvidia Shield in my lounge, and am playing using controller so no keyboard handy for F10. This is why I post so much feedback to Discord though, cuz I just reach for my phone whenever I come across something.
main osprey
Yeah, probably kinda hard to type up a bug report from the other room :P
errant narwhal
it hurts me to give up on the duos.... but i need that death defiance
ornate chasm
I'm up to attempt 121 (God Mode on), and I find myself starting every run with whatever has Dark Thirst up plus the Chaos keepsake, and adjusting the Heat from there.
I'm the kind of guy who plays Random Select in fighting games, cuz I like to get variety and play the hand as dealt... At least to start; I'll still put on God boons for regions 2 & 3 to make a build out of it, and adjust my final keepsake for whether I'm lacking damage or defence.
But ultimately, I'd rather die terribly in a fit of hilarious button mashing than focus too hard on trying to win. God Mode carries me to many a Victory, but it's always fun.
covert hatch
Question about Lucifer: how does Swift Strike interact with it?
barren otter
I believe you deal damage faster and go through ammo faster
covert hatch
Right, I wasn't sure if the already high speed would make it kind of unnecessary
main osprey
@small stirrup You both upvoted and downvoted the Talos #hades-feedback ?
small stirrup
Yeah, cause part of me agrees with it and part also doesn't. Like it would be nice if it did get applied by the pull affect by itself, but it also makes sense that it doesn't (because you're not exactly touching them or something?). Also if you were add the effect on the pull, that basically allows to stack said effect twice in one hit, which is pretty good but it feels alright where it is at the moment in my opinion. It'd be cool if it did cause then I can just apply priv status by pulling them and then just ORA ORA ORA them with primary if i put a different status on that.
So its a bit of mixed feelings 
I like the idea but I don't think it needs to be added
main osprey
Yeah, I'd agree with that xD
finite igloo
augh,
first room of elysium has an Infernal Trove with zeus boon that I really want, chaos gate I really want, and hammer i really want
hammer will win I guess...
spark lotus
inb4 totally wrong hammer
peak iron
Hey can anyone here tell me
Does Splitting Headache only apply to critical hits you CAN get, or does it add crit to all damage when a foe is hungover?
main osprey
I think it's only to existing crit chances, but not certain
lament perch
How exactly does the hallowed ground with Arthur sword work? Does it decrease damage when you're standing in it, or when the enemy attacking you is standing in it, or...?
main osprey
You should notice a small effect around you while you stand on it
small stirrup
Projectile speed is reduced and damage taken while you are standing in it is also reduced
drifting vale
Anyone else find it strange the timer stops during than event until it's over but not until than leaves?
For example i was on tight deadline 2 and the event finished and the timer resumed but i had to wait for than to teleport and the ai couldnt figure out where to go for a few seconds so than just paced around while the timer was ticking
Luckily it didn't affect my run but still
main osprey
yeah :/
drifting vale
I wish my brain wasn't dead right now so i could explain that feedback but boy is my brain dead right now
main osprey
no I know whatchu mean
thorn jolt
If you use Black Shawl, and Damage Control 1, does the second true hit get the damage bonus?
main osprey
they're still undamaged after losing their DC heart
thorn jolt
Cool so not impossible with hestia!
thorn jolt
Triple Shot carries all my bow runs
main osprey
lol
cunning urchin
Flying Cutter and Demeter Aspect seem to be a little bit bugged when they're together. Sometimes your flying cutter can trigger Demeter special just fine, sometimes it'll trigger at the beginning of the charge and get wasted on empty air.
That's by design. It happens when you try to charge your Flying Cutter after a dash.
@static jacinth
Flying Cutter doesn't apply to Dash-Uppers.
So you end up doing a Dash-Upper that "wastes" your extra hits, and then you charge your Flying Cutter.
barren otter
the holy trinity of sword meme hammers https://imgur.com/rOknJUa
reef galleon
I usually end up using Snap Nova as another evade option rather than a damage dealer
simple solar
Snap Nova hurts my brain
reef galleon
yes
half crater
Hoarding slash is fun sometimes B)
i mean, all of them are fun sometimes
spark lotus
Does Cursed Slash work with healing turned off?
half crater
except maybe snap nova
huh actually no idea
does guan yu work? i'd think it would be the same
both being life steal
spark lotus
If yes then it should be able to beat some heat
half crater
i mean, anything can beat "some" heat
for certain values of "some"
didn't someone do 32 without boons a while back?
main osprey
Pretty sure it works
And I haven't quite
I got to the heroes
Haven't tried in a while
Busy with school
young ether
Snap Nova
It feel... very clunky to me
Of the 3 above , i will take hoarding every time
livid dew
Just a curious question for the keepsake shattered shackle. Let's say you have an attack boon will the keepsake still buff the special and cast or do you need all 3 to have no boons to buff them
glass rapids
It will buff whatever is not affected by a boon
Core boons like strike,flourish, flare/shot except hermes
livid dew
If you take a chaos boon or hammer boon that buffs attack or special? Do you lose the buff or does it have to be core boon like strike flourish or shot
young ether
I dont think Chaos applied
barren otter
it's not bad, it's just really awkward
cunning urchin
That can make it difficult to use, but it can be very strong.
barren otter
yeah
young ether
It feel really hard for me to grasp the timing of āreturnā
static jacinth
Well, you don't need to practice it anymore.
dire wedge
RIP Snap Nova
dry ember
RIP ME Divine Dash
dire wedge
when I read that change I let out a big OOF
unkempt pagoda
the new dash nova cements its use as a mobile evasive move, instead of an insane damage dealer lol
good for poseidon aspect
static jacinth
Divine Dash wasn't changed?
dry ember
not directly
magic dagger
divine dash probably still procs it
it's just not a prereq
anybody know anything about the change to deadly reversal?
unkempt pagoda
divine/hunter dash don't qualify as prereqs anymore, sadly
upper salmon
do you know what new prereqs are
dire wedge
the boon guiide in the codex is a godsend. you can see requirements now.
can't use divine dash to get ME now, need divine strike or flourish
dire wedge
when you get to the god's page on the codex it was select for me on the controller
B i think for K&<
K&m*
upper salmon
neither of those
valid locust
Merciful end is the Area/Artemis boon, right?