It synergizes with... Youtube views
#h1-builds-and-combat
hearty elbow
fallow niche
Lmao ^
fervent canyon
I feel like there's a lot of things around bloodstones that get cancelled out by boons/effects/weapon type
casts are in a weird spot because of that
not to say they're bad or anything
hearty elbow
Casts had their heyday in Nighty Night
fervent canyon
just weird
fallow niche
Casts are a weird spot in the game in general and SGG has done an overall good job with balancing them
Overall
Could be better but they have a whole rest of the game to work on 
fervent canyon
Like there are some mirror traits that essentially do not work at all with cast boons
hearty elbow
Stygian Soul builds were so fun.
fervent canyon
which is just kinda weird to me
fallow niche
Styg Soul is cool but ultimately too weak
Losing +2 casts at the start dooms a lot of cast builds
Basically have to gamble on Chaos
hearty elbow
In Blood Price yeah. Prometheus Stone was like next to guaranteed before
fallow niche
Who you may never see / never get +1 casts from 😂
Same with getting casts from wells
Wells only show up so often and also not guaranteed to ever show extra casts
And they only last so many chambers
fervent canyon
is there a cap on casts from chaos?
fallow niche
+1 per boon
hearty elbow
no
hearty elbow
As many as They offer you
small stirrup
You don't even need those many ._.
fervent canyon
What are considered most broken builds in the game right now? Like if you get this you're guaranteed a win
fallow niche
At what heat
small stirrup
^
fervent canyon
I guess low, like 0-20
fallow niche
I've beaten 0 heat with no boons before lol
hearty elbow
Oh oh oh oh oh speaking off, did you solve the UC puzzle?
fallow niche
At least no core boons
I'll do that now @hearty elbow ty for reminding me
I'm just finishing the latest Any Heat route
Last few styx chambers then I'll get on UC
hearty elbow
woo!
lol
One of the great remaining mysteries
@fervent canyon Common opinion that Merciful End on Zag Fist is one of the best things you can do in a normal run.
From 0-20, Chaos Shield with a functioning consciousness is also a great combo
fervent canyon
yeah chaos shield is basically unlosable
I don't think I've lost once with it
did the 32 heat for skelly statue with chaos
hearty elbow
I feel like probably everyone did lol
fallow niche
Virtually any build at all can beat 0-20 heat with good technical skill and planning ahead
fervent canyon
you can block so many tough to dodge attacks
fallow niche
There are builds that are exceedingly powerful at low heats though
Double Edge Nemesis Sword is king atm
In that regard
fervent canyon
yeah that's what I'm asking I guess, what is considered just super OP
fallow niche
But its not as easy to play as shield
fervent canyon
like braindead play and you win
fallow niche
DE Nemsword
Well
Its not braindead
Chaos Shield if you want to turn off brain
Won't be anywhere near as fast but it works
fervent canyon
One thing someone told me earlier on is that some builds have super high DPS and can basically get through final boss incredibly quick
but I don't think I've gotten that very often
small stirrup
Have you seen the clip of sub 5 sec Theseus and Asterius?
fervent canyon
omg
what were they running
50% in 2 hits
nemesis aspect for sure
but not sure on what boons are allowing that
small stirrup
Arty on attack and dash
fervent canyon
is that literally all it takes?
I feel like even with Art I don't get damage like that
small stirrup
He has Cyclop Jerky as well
small stirrup
And he probs has a few chaos boons
fervent canyon
ah makes sense
small stirrup
dude was running chaos egg
But yeah, Nemesis is essentially Arty on dash and Attack
And you're set
fallow niche
@small stirrup @fervent canyon That's the route me and Vorime made, I'm currently working on a faster Elysium and Styx
Nearly done
fervent canyon
so nemesis gives you crit chance after special, and you add the arty attack crit chance on top of that
plus the damage bonus from dash attack
and some chaos boons as well
fallow niche
And Hunter's Mark
fervent canyon
ah right
small stirrup
LMAO
fallow niche
like 700% damage from chaos boons
small stirrup
You guys were literally running a cheese grater
small stirrup
Well played my dude
fallow niche
Like last update
fervent canyon
I pretty much take chaos every time it's available
fervent canyon
only time I might not is if it's a hammer or other boon I really need
but most of the time yeah chaos
fervent canyon
I feel like I should record some runs of mine, try to analyze what I'm doing wrong
would anyone else be willing to give feedback if I did so?
Because I've had like 5 failed runs in a row at 10-20 heat and it's kinda bringing me down
small stirrup
Sure
I mean I feel once you enter high heat territory, all that matters is proper routing and reaction time
But in low heat, just try having fun 😄
Chaos shield and Stygius are usually my main weapons if I wanna win, but the kind of builds you can make with GY's spin are hilarious
fervent canyon
I am trying to have fun, haha, but for some reason every time I go for more weird or experimental options, I feel like it doesn't work out too well for me
Well, obviously chaos shield and sword are easy but I usually just pick whatever weapon has the bonus darkness on it
so I've been cycling between weapons completing heat bounties
small stirrup
You'll get used to them eventually
I remember I used absolutely despise the gun
But then I watched a few high heat runs of zag aspect to show me what I was missing out on
Then I gave it go and it came naturally
fervent canyon
gun is one of my favs, when I got lightning attack + explosive shots
that was nuts
small stirrup
I used to find the damage of the primary was so abysmal that i had no idea what to do with it
I thought bombs were the only way
But then I got the shotgun hammer and then it turned into a completely different ball game
Paired with infinite ammo
fervent canyon
but yeah appreciate you offering to watch something volty, that's really cool of you
fervent canyon
I think when I was climbing up to 10 heat I started thinking "hey I'm pretty good at this" but after getting my butt stomped a few times I'm not so sure
oof well hey me too
small stirrup
If I were to suggest a way of going about weapon choice, I'd say trying going with a weapon until you get a good streak of 3 or more going
fervent canyon
hmm
that sounds like a good idea honestly
time to practice with it
instead of always doing a different weapon
small stirrup
I hope it works for you! ^_^
fervent canyon
ty I'll try it for a bit
not like I need too much darkness anymore anyway
who needs rerolls
small stirrup
When you run RI 4, the mirror means nothing 
fervent canyon
true
small stirrup
I suggest practicing BP 2, FO 2 and TD 2 since those tend to whoop most peeps butts on low heat
Plus getting used to TD 2 early will be better
fervent canyon
I’ve been using FO ever since I unlocked heat
And then usually jury summons, +1 elite foe, extreme measures
The ones I don’t touch are the ones that force you to give up boon or have less options in boon pool
fallow niche
jury summons sucks
fervent canyon
I imagine it’s the worst for speed runners
small stirrup
It's plain terrible in Elysium
fervent canyon
The way I thought of it was +15% is probably just 1 or 2 extra enemies
So that’s why I take it I think
Haven’t actually done the math on that tho
small stirrup
It's usually plays out in an extra wave of enemies
static jacinth
FO2 champion archers are the worst.
static jacinth
@lavish condor That's intended functionality of Zeus aspect.
main osprey
It describes that on the Aspect
gusty dagger
What else are fun shield builds aside from chaos aspect+anything?
cunning urchin
Beowulf with anything you want.
void fjord
A fun shield build, is to use the shield
barren otter
How do Last Stand and Touch of Styx interact with death defiance from Lucky Tooth? I'd imagine they would both work. Cause during the BP beta there was a bug where touch of styx could show up in wells even when not using SD and it actually worked, DD healed to 60%.
small stirrup
Well that was the beta, so I assumed they'd patch it, but otherwise it shouldn't really
barren otter
I guess the question would be, is the flat amount of health from lucky tooth affected by the percentage increases? Would it restore 110 health instead of 100 if you had touch of styx still active or are those tied to your max health?
pseudo kiln
is zeus or aphrodites better for the boxing weapon?
i wanna play with gloves but i never really took the time to learn synergies
random hull
Zeus is good from the get-go, because fists are a fast hitting weapons. Although I've heard that Aphrodite attack can do wonders together with Unhealthy Fixation.
void fjord
one of my fav build has always been zeus or arty attack with aphro special
especially with aspect of demeter
my special after being fully charged more often than naught one shots an enemy
cunning urchin
Lightning Strike and Heartbreak Strike on Malphon have close to the same single-target damage. But Chain-Lightning can hit more enemies.
fervent canyon
What are the best builds for aspect of Rama? The shared suffering doesn’t seem amazing but maybe I just need to find the right boon combo
If you hit an enemy with shared suffering and then hit another enemy with status effect, does it apply that status to the other enemy?
cunning urchin
I don't know about best, but you could take a look at the spreadsheet pinned in #h1-high-heat-strategies for what builds have proven effective.
Personally, I'm liking Heartbreak Strike + Zeus' Aid for Smoldering Air and then just trying out different things on Special.
With either Hunter Dash or Divine Dash.
I imagine Deadly Strike + Heartbreak Flourish + Heart Rend should be pretty good.
glass rapids
I tried to get deadly strike + dio special + passion dash + heart rend + splitting headache like another person mentioned, couldn't get splitting headache unfortunately
if you do get both duos it's pretty gud
i did get explosive shot which works pretty well with Rama
If you hit an enemy with shared suffering and then hit another enemy with status effect, does it apply that status to the other enemy?
damage shared is only on attack afaik
void fjord
i have always enjoyed heartbreak strike + drunken flourish, getting the duo for applying more poison makes me very happy
athena dash, especially on high heats, then zeus cast to try and get smouldering air with either aphro or athena aid
nimble dove
Just a question, what are people's favorite weapons to use? Not just how well a weapon can go. just how fun
glass rapids
rail 4th aspect
reef galleon
I like the sword because its the least repetitive of them all visually (being the only weapon with a basic combo)
void fjord
fists aspect of demeter
wintry plume
Talos fists and Guan Yu, for now. Don't have a lot of aspects
cunning urchin
I really like Malphon (all aspects), Hestia, Shield #4. Those are probably my favorites.
Coronacht has been quite fun recently, but sometimes I don't get good Attack hammers, and then it just feels a bit unrewarding for all the power shots I'm doing.
hearty elbow
Rama, Zag Bow, Hestia, Demeter, Arthur, Guan Yu
lucid arch
the bow with chiron's aspect
fallow niche
Poseidon Sword > Zag Spear > everything else
steady hatch
achilles spear, poseidon sword, hera bow
finite igloo
@lucid arch what's up with Chiron's aspect, what are you fond of with it?
I have not tried it yet, think it might be the only one
I like Malphon, Hera Bow, (Zeus Shield is fun but I don't think its v. good), Guan Yu spear, then sword im still undecided between Nemesis and Excalibur
lucid arch
In tartarus it's really fun cuz u can kill guys off pretty quick, i usually find that bow is lil weak early game if you don't get good boons, especially cuz you can't attack as quick as u can with melee weapons so it helps kill guys off quick, i also just like watching all the arrows go after one guy lol
wise crescent
I really struggle with Chiron at level 1, not to mention the bow in general..
Feels like theoretically I’d be better off stacking artemis&crit boons for the special, but sometimes my Daedalus hammer only gives attack boons and that’s frustrating
It’s really funny, though. I struggle with bow and shield a lot, they feel very slow/passive compared to fists, sword, and the rail (personal favorite, unlocked Lucifer ASAP!)
rough abyss
does anyone know a good non-weapon build? im trying to clear with the bow and the gun but i rly dont ike using them. ii'd rather use some other form of damage aside from those 2.
unkempt pagoda
cast builds are some of the strongest in the game
full wine (trippy shot + scintillating feast + ice wine), and hunting blades (the ares/artemis duo boon) come to mind
rough abyss
rng is not kind to me
warped kernel
hera with full wine is fantastic
dry ember
hearty elbow
Ran out of babies to yeet off the mountain
kind cloud
@lavish condor
Re: Your #hades-feedback about zeus aspect
Being able to attack while the shield is in flight is one thing which separates zeus aspect from the other 3 shield aspects (which don't allow this...albeit chaos kinda does). zeus aspect speical is basically alectro's rotating turret.
if you combine it with athena's divine flourish, ares' attack, their duo boon merciful end, you can wreck entire hordes. any additional boons like artemis dash strike and athena/artemis duo boon deadly reversal and it's overkill.
if you have that build. you can beat 50+ heat with shield-zeus aspect.
turbid heart
Does pulses from Lucifer speical get boon bonuses or only the explosion?
languid marten
I had a double special Excalibur build I ran a few days back, it was a blast.
fervent canyon
Hey guys, how do you use snap nova? I was using it in a run earlier and it seemed kind of fun but I was having trouble actually using it to move around rooms, especially near a wall
small stirrup
I absolutely hate snap nova, not because its a bad hammer or anything, but mostly because the camera movements when going back to Zagreus snap back really quickly and it hurts my eyes a lot
fervent canyon
Yeah the camera is disorienting
Oh also @small stirrup I recorded a run
I can post videos here right?
small stirrup
#self-promotion is the best place to post them
fervent canyon
Ah okay
But this isn’t really self promotion lol, I don’t want views I just want feedback and tips on how to play better
Although I guess I can’t have one without the other?
But you know what I mean haha
upper salmon
for ares/athena duo, what exactly is the effect? like attacks that deflect anything also apply doom? the deflect damage applies doom...?
fervent canyon
It’s the doom activated off of a deflect attack
So for example
You hit them with attack, applying doom
Then you use deflect dash into them
That doom will instantly activate instead of you having to wait
So you can keep hitting them with doom, activating it, hitting them with it again
Normally doom takes time to activate but being able to activate it yourself allows you to keep consistent damage up
fervent canyon
Hey guys, after a string of bad runs I decided to record my gameplay so I could get feedback on what I’m doing wrong, how to improve
If anyone is willing to take a look and give me some criticism on it I’d greatly appreciate it
I’m gonna go run on the treadmill for a bit so won’t respond immediately but in about an hour should be done
So by that time hopefully someone has watched some of it
barren otter
for merciful end, is the doom+deflect combo only 50 damage or is it the doom damage + 50 damage? cause if it's the former, then there's not much reason to go for higher rarity/level on doom if you can consistently do the doom+deflect combo.
cunning urchin
Doom damage + 50.
barren otter
that's really good then
wise crescent
Fiery presence seems absolutely pointless once you have dozens of enemies with armor, as you can’t exceed the total health of the armor..
hearty elbow
I have a giant pile I'll post in a min, almost done
I'll actually probably DM you to not flood
fervent canyon
sounds good
glass rapids
https://discordapp.com/channels/456889434672201729/525022184280948736/748671232299368458 I like the mechanic of the special(detonating w/ attack) and it does need something like triple bomb to be viable but making it into rocket bomb would be rather boring
wouldn't something like a speed upgrade suffice
it feels clunky with the end-lag after using it is all
fervent canyon
Am I missing something with blown kiss? Sometimes it works fine and extends the cast range but other times it doesn’t
main osprey
@muted herald Splitting Bolt doesn't create a lightning strike
muted herald
yeah but if i have a ton of other lightning generation
would splitting bolt's extra bolt have a chance to double also
main osprey
No because it's not a lightning bolt
muted herald
i can't tell at this point my screen is covered by bolts
oh is splitting bolt just extra damage
not an actual bolt
main osprey
It's a small chain Lightning that doesn't bounce
main osprey
Sure thing ^.^ Good luck! Sounds like you've got a good build going
magic dagger
dark thirst, the ultimate expression of luck
magic dagger
yep!
wheat rivet
Is smoldering air good/what are some good calls with it?
I currently have Zeus' aid but idk if thats the best one with it
main osprey
@wheat rivet Yes it's good, I recommend something like Aphrodite's call :P
magic dagger
it's good with anything but ares
wheat rivet
Sure
magic dagger
zeus call is good, aphro call is a little OP
wheat rivet
I also just got second wind 
fallow niche
Its op with aphros call? Won't it do literally no damage lmao
wheat rivet
Aphros call charms the opponent its used on
main osprey
Perma charm, my dude
barren otter
charmed enemies do a ton of damage to other enemies (and they can get damaged by other enemies too)
main osprey
Perma charm bosses*
fallow niche
Ultimately you still need damage to get through them and charmed enemies are kinda wimpy
Seems really slow
barren otter
charm stuns bosses, which is good.
magic dagger
assume casual play is what's happening here
magic dagger
aphro call is the ultimate fun run strat
barren otter
the only bad thing about charmed enemies is how they take like at least 3 seconds to think before attacking.
magic dagger
charmed chariots bonk too hard
I had one of FB's chariots take out his entire health bar in a few seconds once
fallow niche
Charm's real use is the weird deflect bug
Though not sure if it still works post-Blood Price
Need to test it again
dire wedge
TIL that you can get Chaos' legendary more than once in a run
main osprey
woah, nice
frosty pier
So it gives you a DD even then you have a SD? Fabulous.
main osprey
yup!
fallow niche
The DD gets used after SD too so you can't really waste it
dire wedge
yep, it acts more like a safety net than anything
tight eagle
Lucifer+Ares Attack and Athena Duo is actually busted
fallow niche
Merciful End is one of the few duos that is good on every single aspect
tight eagle
probably, first time I use it on anything 
forest jay
Is it preferred to run Fated Persuasion or Fated Authority?
I figure that persuasion helps get you the boon you want, but authority helps you get boons in the first place
Just looking for people's experience with the talents
fallow niche
Both are good, Authority is easier to use and generally way better for casual runs imho
Persuasion is definitely more powerful overall though since if you're going for a very specific build that wants very specific boons then it has a way better chance of getting you that
Its power is most absurd in routed runs too, it allows me to get like 2-3 Light of Ixion's from a single Well of Charon lol
But that's a super edge case that only a handful of people will ever use it for
forest jay
It seemed very helpful to use persuasion, granted i'm trying to finish the prophecies and getting some of the legendaries just takes super long
fallow niche
Yeah if you want legendaries then Persuasion is better
Same with Duos
But if you just want more boons / health / obals / etc in general then you want Authority
It sifts through the rewards to get you the specific kind you want
forest jay
Thanks for the advice
turbid needle
I consistently get more with Authority than Persuasion.
I just don't get enough boons with Persuasion to get higher tier stuff.
Oh, wait, two hours behind this conversation.
hearty elbow
Starting with the boon you want and rerolling Chaos is enough reason for me to never use Authority. However, once you start playing with Underworld Customs, the argument kind of becomes null for Authority since you can reroll pools of purging as well.
fervent canyon
So after reading some feedback from @hearty elbow literally the next run with nemesis I beat hades with all of my deaths defiance left, Athena really does make such a difference for survivability
I guess I need to start thinking a bit more strategically about boon picks, I’ve kind of just been picking whatever feels most interesting or right to me
But I think some boons definitely work better on certain attacks/specials/dashes than others
Btw why do you think poms aren’t worth it on melee builds? Like what inherently makes them better for ranged?
main osprey
@opaque atlas (From #hades-feedback ) What do you mean?
crude sky
Fairly new and still can't figure out Zues's Lightning Strike. It absolutely destroys rooms, though it absolutely feels like trash on single target bosses. I feel like I'm tickling Hades with an electric toothbrush for all the dmg my attacks do. Is there something I'm missing or is this a compliment to buff Poseidon's kit?
turbid needle
Lightning Strike is best against single targets when you can hit more times per second.
Great with Malphon, not so much with Coronacht.
fervent canyon
Also lightning effects get better when you can stack on other Zeus boons that give jolted, hit lightning strikes multiple times, etc
So can anyone tell me when to take Pom or when to take health? That’s usually the main thing right? You either prioritize poms or max health depending on what weapon/boon you have?
Can someone explain it to me? Because idk when to take which
And most of the time I just prioritize Pom to make my attack numbers go up
barren otter
Normally I need about 200 max health to comfortably beat the game. If I'm running stubborn defiance, I prioritize getting as much max health as possible.
fervent canyon
Interesting
And some boons work better with poms than others right?
For example damage resist on a Pom goes up like 1-2%?
static jacinth
Poms have diminishing returns too.
For most boons, more than a handful of levels just doesn't add that much.
You have to gauge how much damage you're likely to take from bosses/rooms, and how much increasing the damage and such on your skills is worth it.
The first one or two poms are the ones that matter most, so you should really try to snag those for your main damage boons.
small stirrup
Yeah I never understand why people get like lvl 7 boons. Like how diminishing would the returns be at that point?
cunning urchin
More damage is more damage.
main osprey
level 14 is level 14
half crater
i got lvl 12 aphro attack on hestia a while back
main osprey
if I'm only using one boon, I only need one boon
cunning urchin
There's no max level. But you're limited by how many poms you can find, anyway.
half crater
true
static jacinth
Sometimes you just want more damage.
And Pressure Points has no diminishing returns.
I guess until you hit 100% crit.
cunning urchin
You hit a minimum at around Lv.5, and from there on every level will increase the boon's effect by that minimum.
half crater
I guess until you hit 100% crit.
the alpha move is to go higher than 100%
get more crits than you have attacks
cunning urchin
Pressure Points is easily among the worst boons to put poms on, though.
static jacinth
It's a good way to add damage to your main source if that source isn't offered though.
A lil bit.
cunning urchin
I guess it's better than nothing at all, yeah.
barren otter
Is there a difference for Doomstone and Witches Circle with Middle Management on/off?
main osprey
for Doomstone, I think the room changes
and I think the Witches get an extra attack option
small stirrup
Doomstone gets traps in his room, which imo makes him easier to kill since you can just use them against it
cunning urchin
Can be a lot more difficult to deal with when using melee because of the gaps in the room.
small stirrup
Fair nuff
fervent canyon
are there any situations where you want to pom a lot of different stuff? I feel like most of the time I just want one or two specific boons to get hit by pom
I guess maybe if you're going some kind of weird build?
main osprey
it you're using a build that uses lots of different boons
like a synergy build
instead of a focused build
hearty elbow
Btw why do you think poms aren’t worth it on melee builds? Like what inherently makes them better for ranged?
@fervent canyon It's not melee vs. ranged, it's just attack % boons in general. They have severe diminishing returns since all the percentages go in the same bucket. The first couple are fine but it is very close to no benefit after that.
Hangover core boons are one of the better exceptions to that rule. The numbers start off low and increase by flat chunks (typically 2 -> 1 -> 1...). Poms are virtually always worthwhile if you're going Hangover as a build.
Lightning, and casts also scale really well with poms.
hybrid galleon
My 265% aphro attack disagrees
fervent canyon
So what I’m getting from this is, get 1 or 2 poms if it’s a percent increase on attack, like Aphrodite, Artemis, Poseidon
And then get more poms if it’s something like hangover, lightning/jolted, doom damage?
If it’s a flat damage number
fallow niche
That's roughly correct, yeah, but generally speaking Zeus builds tend to really want more Zeus boons more than poms (The legendary and Double Strike are real [though Jolted scales quite insanely with poms]), and Doom tends to really want Merciful End so you want Athena boons to go with it less than poms most of the time. @fervent canyon
Casts, of all things in the game, scale the best with Poms. They can almost double their damage from level 1 > 2 sometimes
cunning urchin
@half tapir you can't take damage while choosing boons.
half tapir
huh the screen flashed red as though I had, though I admit I was a bit below full and don't really know how much exactly I had before
cunning urchin
Yeah, it flashes. But your HP doesn't go down from those "hits".
main osprey
It's still misleading, and in line with something I've asked for in the past, which is all projectiles cleared when the room is cleared
fallow niche
Does anyone know if Lightning Phalanx works on Beowulf?
barren otter
I assume it's not even gonna be offered
half tapir
just tested the post victory mine thing, it definitely does still damage you outside of boon selection
tight eagle
Triple Beam or Flash Fire for Lucifer Demeter build?
also piercing fire, I hate to pick one of 3 great hammers
Took triple fire and it
is great
static jacinth
Lightning Phalanx requires Phalanx Shot.
Which you can't get on Beowolf.
It's Phalanx Flare there.
fallow niche
Wait, does that mean you can't get it with Stygian Soul either?
wise crescent
I’m struggling with the timing on the dash pretty regularly
Even with Athena’s dash boon (one I typically try to get any time I see it)
Like the 🗿 miniboss that shoots a red shockwave after the first short wave, I can’t dash through it without taking 20 hit points of damage.. cost me a few lives in a run today
Specifically the invulnerability window, I mean
Assuming there is one.. I wasn’t firing my Lucifer aspect
unkempt pagoda
tbf, that one particular shockwave has weird interactions with the dash
wise crescent
Does it? Well damn
I thought it would be like the green waves from || hades skulls || but ¯_(ツ)_/¯
hearty elbow
@wise crescent Literally everyone gripes about the Skullcrusher mini boss. It has the jankest PoS hitboxes.
wise crescent
Okay, well, do you have any tips for it besides focusing it down first?
hearty elbow
Yeah, focus on Gorgon first so you can focus solely on dashing into the Skullcrusher range.
Though people's approaches vary dramatically depending on playstyle
I see people switch between them, focus Gorgon, or Skullcrusher, just depends.
static jacinth
My approach is to be sad.
hearty elbow
If you do not have MM active, Companions greatly trivialize the fight.
static jacinth
And muddle through it.
fervent canyon
wait is that true about the hitboxes on that guy? I just assumed I was mistiming my dash whenever that thing hit me
hearty elbow
hearty elbow
The extending wave itself also has jank hitboxes too
fervent canyon
btw ledger in your feedback you asked what I was looking for when I rerolled Demeter
I was trying to get the boon that improves your crystal cast, makes it fire longer and chill
because I was trying to have a split build between the arty damage stuff and the crystal cast
didn't work out so well but that was the thinking
hearty elbow
Ohhh, I see, that makes sense. I still don't agree but at least it's consistent with what you were building towards.
fervent canyon
yeah, basically all of the feedback is just from me not fully understanding what is most effective in which scenario
I usually just go for whatever "sounds fun"
whatever that means haha
hearty elbow
epic Greatest Reflexes on Nemesis is definitely fun. It's basically like DBZ fighting at that point.
fervent canyon
true, once you get Athena dash + greatest reflexes it's basically god mode
I think I got hit once in the final boss on that run
hearty elbow
haha, nice. I didn't bother commenting on the Hades attempt in the beginning of the video because it was pretty clear you were already knees deep arms weak in spaghetti.
fervent canyon
lmao when I saw the cursed slash
I was already thinking I wasn't going to win
but that pretty much sealed the deal
oh wait you were talking about the previous one too
yeah... that didn't work out well either
hearty elbow
Unfortunately Anvil is a pretty well recognized meme on Stygius for that reason :3
fervent canyon
is stygius the only weapon with cursed?
I don't remember if any of the others have that
spear has it on GY
hearty elbow
I mean, there are definitely other brick worthy hammers
unkempt pagoda
stygius has the most transformative hammers imo
unkempt pagoda
delta chamber is a straight up trap, at least cursed slash has a viable use
hearty elbow
Chain Skewer on Achilles
unkempt pagoda
chain skewer can't appear on achilles
fervent canyon
snap nova is a bit of a joke right? maybe it's not terrible but the way it messes up your positioning when the camera flies everywhere...
hearty elbow
Can't it? Buzzkills over at SGG amirite
static jacinth
Snap Nova is super good.
unkempt pagoda
snap nova is strong, but if you get motion sick easy don't use it
hearty elbow
It is... super conditional with an extremely high learning curve.
But yeah, on Nemesis and Poseidon it gives you effectively an extra dash and damage burst., which is awesome. Gives you a free aura delivery system on Excal as well (I'm actually not sure if you can even get it on Excal)
unkempt pagoda
probably not, since it changes base damage
hearty elbow
I have heard whispers that the recall ability is useful, but I don't bother with that.
Too much micro and nausea
fervent canyon
Hey here's a question, I never understood for example the hammer upgrade for heavy knuckle, it's slow and it says it gives your base attack 25 damage or something?
which doesn't seem like much when I think about it
maybe I'm missing something and what it comboes well with
fervent canyon
so what is the base attack without upgrade?
unkempt pagoda
35 is just 10 less than max zagshield lol
fervent canyon
I guess I don't really pay attention to what the base numbers are
static jacinth
Base damage upgrades are really good in this game.
fervent canyon
so I don't get a good sense of what the damage should be
hearty elbow
Hmm... let me check in game. Wiki says 30 but I'm pretty sure it's 35
static jacinth
Just keep that in mind.
unkempt pagoda
it lets you use heavier boons on a weapon normally designed for quick boons
hearty elbow
It also effectively eliminates the cooldown time between strike combos
Or at least it shortens it dramaticlaly
fervent canyon
what's considered a heavier boon?
mighty ermine
i'm guessing the wiki value was put in before the june 30th patch which buffed it
and didn't get updated
unkempt pagoda
aphrodite/artemis vs dio/zeus
hearty elbow
35 is just 10 less than max zagshield lol
@unkempt pagoda That's kind of an unfair comparison though because it's assuming a Hammer. With the same constraint in mind Zag shield has base 80
fervent canyon
I see, because the fist base damage is lower and it hits faster, the % boons don't do as much for it
so heavy knuckle gives you a chance to use those instead
am I correct here?
mighty ermine
yes
hearty elbow
Yep
mighty ermine
that's basically the gist
fervent canyon
got it
and I assume that's generally consistent across weapons? faster they hit, lower the base damage
and thus the hammer upgrades that make it hit harder make the heavier boons more effective
hearty elbow
It's a good heuristic, yes.
unkempt pagoda
zeus is especially good because it gives you a set additional damage
hearty elbow
Exceptions include Zag bow, which has dog poop base damage but it's all you've got... so you deal.
unkempt pagoda
on something like the rail, you can double your damage output with a common boon
warped kernel
zag bow gets crit though
unkempt pagoda
where you would normally need +100% from a damage modifier god
fervent canyon
right, I've had a run or two with zeus on adamant rail
gets pretty nuts
especially stacking zeus boons for additional hit, jolted etc
but so is that like a rule of thumb for the faster weapons then? you want to build into quick boons unless aided by a hammer
unkempt pagoda
basically
hearty elbow
No rules of thumb, but it's a good starting point.
unkempt pagoda
there are a few quirks here and there, but generally speaking
fervent canyon
and I don't even know how to build when using the bow, because it feels kinda slow to me but the heavy boons don't feel that good with it
unkempt pagoda
bow is super hammer dependent tbf
fervent canyon
my most successful bow runs have been when I rely on my special for damage
hearty elbow
E.g. you would expect that Doom would be absolutely terrible on a fast weapon, but @cunning urchin demonstrated that Doom attack WITHOUT Merciful End is the highest DPS option on Malphon attack.
@fervent canyon It'd be my pleasure to deep dive on Bow runs if you want, that's my specialty 😛
unkempt pagoda
generally speaking, twin shot is the Meta™️ hammer
hearty elbow
Nemesis was just on my mind particularly strongly then because it took me an embarrassing week of grinding to get over my mental block with that Aspect to finish all weapons at 40
fervent canyon
the one that lets you spam fire with no power shot seems terrible unless assisted by certain boons. That about right?
fervent canyon
idk, it just feels weird to use
fervent canyon
I just like dash -> shot dash -> shot and that hammer upgrade breaks up the flow of that for me
unkempt pagoda
you get a max charge bow shot (no power shot) and get to spam it
static jacinth
Just learn to dash, fire a flurry or three, then dash again.
You get more damage.
And benefit wonderfully from hermes attack speed boons.
fervent canyon
interesting
hearty elbow
Twin Shot makes Bow into an Actual™️ weapon
unkempt pagoda
you get the speed closer to something like fists with the power of the bow
unkempt pagoda
try it
hearty elbow
I personally think Flurry is poop
But I won't fault others for finding value in it
Part of that is that only Power Shots pierce
unkempt pagoda
my favorite bow build is zagbow triple + chain
hearty elbow
Rama Triple + Chain is joy
unkempt pagoda
now that i'm thinking about it, i wonder if anvil could possibly stack flurry on top of that 👀
hearty elbow
My dream is hitting Triple Explosive Point Blank on Rama with Deadly Strike.
One day
static jacinth
Are you -sure- that only power shots pierce enemies?
I'm pretty sure I've hit multiples with flurry.
hearty elbow
I am not sure, no.
i'll try after sleep time in Night in the Woods lol.
Nope, I'm wrong. I haven't gotten Flurry but non-power shots do pierce.
narrow rampart
non-power shots are shorter, so maybe they give off the illusion of not piercing
but they do indeed pierce
static jacinth
Ok, I thought I was crazy.
hearty elbow
Oh pff, there's plenty of other reasons you could STILL be crazy 😄
dense star
Guess I might as well ask, what bow builds do folk like?
dense star
Interesting, excepting Fated List related things I've pretty much turned a blind eye to Athena Cast
Cool to note it might be good for Hera bow (or good in general)
At 15 heat with the bow atm, for awhile I've noticed I tend to have difficulty dealing damage fast enough around elysium
unkempt pagoda
full wine build (trippy flare + scintillating feast + ice wine) on hera is amazing
i quite like zag bow triple + chain
favorite chiron build is demeter special + arctic blast, with relentless and concentrated volley
fervent canyon
@gray moon how does Athena cast work on Hera? Does the arrow itself deflect attacks? Or when the arrow hits it makes a deflect blast?
gray moon
When you fire the arrow, any cast that you loaded releases where the arrow lands
if the arrow hits an enemy, the casts release right there, usually hitting the enemy
if the enemy is killed by the arrow, the casts will go forward
so if you max load, then fire against a numbskull, the three casts will continue in that path
the reason I recommend Athena for Hera is that it is a cast with high base damage, good scaling, and some AOE
Demeter is useless, Ares is hard to aim
Poseidon and Zeus have low base damage
Aphrodite is good, but is worse at Epic level than Athena, and is a little harder to aim (you need to get used to it)
Arthemis is ok, but has no AOE
Dionysus is really good, but the fog sticks around, meaning you cant immediately pick up the ammo
so Dio is better against Bosses, worse against mobs than Athena
fervent canyon
Okay so it’s not about the cast ability itself?
I thought maybe there was some deflect tech synergy with Hera that I was missing
gray moon
trying to deflect this way is wonky
not to say you can't do it, but you should be using the casts for damage
fervent canyon
What do you want on your attack boon? Does it matter with Hera?
finite igloo
my build advice: blade rift go brrrrr
on hera bow, it depends on the cast you're going with imo??
I was getting demeter with blade rift a) because my thinking is chilled folks will get sucked into/stay in the rift easier, and demeter's already got a decent attack damage% mod
gray moon
Attack doesnt matter as much with Hera, but Aphrodite is my go-to
finite igloo
but was going poseidon for stuff like crush shot, because crush shot has that thing on Hera where it kinda hits BEHIND the target sometimes, and poseidon sometimes pushes them back into the Cast, and knockback from Poseidon is real good too
gray moon
but Athena is nice for deflect, and Demeter is nice for the chill
finite igloo
I usually slap athena on my special when I do Hera, the spread shot deflect is super fun
gray moon
that, or Ares
gray moon
Ares is solid for attack as well
dash-strike is a very fast attack you can do hit and run with, and Doom still deals full damage
finite igloo
i just did a hera run (only heat 7 though because my bow play is baby~)
gray moon
Pierced Butterfly is an interesting keepsake is you are feeling adventureous
because the damage increase is very big on your Cast
finite igloo
Pierced Butterfly is real fun with bow in general, makes me play a lot differently
gray moon
i wish it worked all the time, not just when you hold it
finite igloo
a lot more deliberately, because I am keen to stack up all the +% damage i can
gray moon
OR, you kept the damage bonus if you removed it
finite igloo
yeah
haha, gosh, I had a bad thing where I was doing a fists run and my brain just lapsed and I took off the Plume at Styx
all that attack speed, gone
finite igloo
yeah, and all that attack speed can be a waste if you're not using it with appropriate weapons/boons
like, it can be kinda too much of a good thing...
gray moon
btw, is it me, or is Flurry Jab just about the best Spear hammer?
you can't spin anymore, but unless you are using Hades Spear, who cares?
main osprey
Guan Yu spin builds do
cunning urchin
Hades Aspect and Guan Yu can't get Flurry Jab anyway. So they don't care. 
gray moon
Guan can't get it? thats sucks
tbh, i think i might take it with Hades anyways, if i could
cunning urchin
Well, it would remove one of their core abilities.
gray moon
yea, but your basic attack becomes so nice
cunning urchin
Serrated Point, Exploding Launcher, and Charged Skewer are really good hammers, too.
gray moon
I do like point, shame it makes your Dash shorter
i guess a 60 damage AOE fast attack needs some kind of downside
especially since it can get further buffed with Hunter Dash
btw @cunning urchin why do you dislike my idea for Darker Thirst?
is it unbalanced?
cunning urchin
It's unnecessary.
gray moon
you dont think gems are a bit grindy?
i have 200+ runs, and still nowhere near full house of Hades
probably 10k short
cunning urchin
Well, that seems like a good thing to me.
Actually still something to look forward to beyond higher heat numbers.
gray moon
One could always start a new save, if looking for more gametime
I have one, waiting for the 1.0 release
cause i want to see both a new, and old account exit the temple
cunning urchin
Nah, a new save is not comparable.
I don't have a problem with "grind" if the gameplay is fun. I'm not going out like oh I need to farm Gemstones at 0 Heat or something. I just play what I like, and every few runs, I get to spend some Gemstones.
gray moon
it wouldn't bother me so much, except that so many of the upgrades are just replacements, but they still cost full price
muted herald
How does one use demeter cast? My friend keeps saying it's good but the turn rate on the beams feels so sluggish
magic dagger
you place them really well or get crystal clarity
or, better, both
barren otter
it's very hard to make crystal beam work without Demeter + Artemis duo
cunning urchin
If it's just a replacement, it's not a big problem if you can't afford it. You'll only one use the one you like in that slot, anyway.
barren otter
Glacial Glare also helps a lot.
muted herald
In the few cast focused builds ive done, ive really only liked Ares cast
And zeus to some extent since it's got good clear
gray moon
Ares cast is absurd if you have Hunting Blades
muted herald
Thats the heatseeking rifts?
gray moon
yes
muted herald
Yeah
I usually only focus on ares cast if i can get both early enough
Zeus builds seem the most insane to me still at the moment
The clearspeed is hnggggg
Although i havent gotten too far into the game (15 clears only 
)
gray moon
what i dont like about Zeus is low base damage
muted herald
Yeah
cunning urchin
Engulfing Vortex or Hunting Blades. Either one of them is fine. But you'll still want Vicious Cycle for the damage.
muted herald
Needs a fair bit of investment
gray moon
60, compared to 85 from Athena, or 100 from Wine Boy
if using HEra, you have to be more picky
If poseidon, less so.
(50% bonus cast damage helps, no doubt)
gray moon
shame it is attached to the sword, the weapon i like the least, by a large margin (except Excalibur)
no, Hera is not in game
not everyone who has an aspect is a character
muted herald
Excalibur is funnn
cunning urchin
Eh, I've seen everything but Crystal Beam work on Hera Aspect.
muted herald
Wait whats hera aspect
gray moon
Loading casts into your shot
muted herald
Ah bow?
cunning urchin
3rd bow aspect.
muted herald
I was wondering what to use with that other than ares
gray moon
Athena and Wineboy work best, in my experience
cunning urchin
Crush Shot.
gray moon
Crush Shot was a weird one - i could not get it to land half the time, until i practiced
too often the cast would go off BEHIND the target
cunning urchin
I always get it to hit. You're probably charging your shot for too long.
I just quick-release the string.
gray moon
if you shoot the arrow before the target (rather than at it), it works a lot better
but then the arrow might not connect
cunning urchin
I dunno. I've never had problems with it personally. Anyway, it's something you can practice, I guess.
gray moon
Ares is a bit awkward for me (for Hera)
cunning urchin
bablo did a new speedrun WR for bow with Hera just a few hours ago with Crush Shot and Twin Shot.
mellow ruin
Hi, about speedrun, I beat hadès for the first time yesterday in ~28 min, is there any ingame ladder or community one I could check just to see how fast peoples complete their runs? (just to get an idea)
cunning urchin
gray moon
for me, its 26 minutes on average
cunning urchin
Keep in mind that the fastest ones are like entirely routed or at the very least routed all the way through Elysium.
gray moon
23m if im rushing
but for me, rushing is more like "not standing around too much"
but i like to stand around.....
or look for gold in urns, or fish, etc....
cunning urchin
My average time on like sub-32 Heat is somewhere around 18 min, I guess?
mellow ruin
Thank you, going to have a look at this website
cunning urchin
32+ is more like 21 min average or something around that.
That's what you'd want to aim for if you want to beat TD2 reliably on any heat.
turbid needle
Which do you think you should get from eurydice
Is it dependent or is pom porridge the best one every time?
main osprey
Dependent, I can explain each later, you could also search for the convo
gray moon
Ambrosia is best if you only have a few of your core boons
so you have a good chance of upgrading that
otherwise, porridge
though, if you dont have all your core boons, nectar could get you a good one
and by core, i mean the ones you use
so if you are using Demeter fists, that would be Attack and Special
for Hera bow, Attack and CAst
funnily, it seems that Eurydice gets worse the more boons you have
dire wedge
bablo did a new speedrun WR for bow with Hera just a few hours ago with Crush Shot and Twin Shot.
does Twin Shot Hera mean Twin Crush Shot? 👀
hearty elbow
Which do you think you should get from eurydice
@turbid needle First off, if your name is a Pathologic reference, excellent taste. Secondly, the upgrades are ordered roughly in the sequence of preference. It should relatively self explanatory when you don't want one of the upgrades. E.g. You have too many boons and you can't rely on one you want getting upgraded, or all of your boons don't scale with poms.
turbid needle
pathologic
hearty elbow
does Twin Shot Hera mean Twin Crush Shot? 👀
@dire wedge Yes, it's pretty typical to supplement your damage with Chiron/Hera with an attack Hammer/boons
turbid needle
nah it's not but I'll google it. It's just from the roman state religion
err, folksy side thereof
Yeah, fair enough to your answer tho
Out of curiosity tho, does upgrading your rarity or level interfere with the common > rarity upgrade boon from demeter?
cunning urchin
Refreshing Nectar just might be the best choice she offers.
Increased chance for Duo and Legendary Boons.
turbid needle
orly?
is there a way to get duo to appear more often? I keep picking the combos but I hardly ever get duos
gray moon
one of the mirror upgrades does this
cunning urchin
Well, picking Refreshing Nectar would be one way.
turbid needle
I'm maxed out except fated authority
cunning urchin
Fated Persuasion to reroll boons.
gray moon
Fated Authority kind of sucks, honestly
hearty elbow
But... yeah, one bird in the hand is better than two boons in the bush.
So it's nearly always better to upgrade what you have if you have stuff worth upgrading
gray moon
even with the extra charges, you can end up spending a lot of them to get the reward you want
cunning urchin
Miniboss chambers for increased chance.
Keepsake for increased chance.
I'm like 90% sure the boons from Charon's Shop also have increased rarity.
hearty elbow
I say "nearly" because you'll occasionally enter Asphodel with level 2/3 Rare Cropped or Heroic (replaced) boons and have no need for either of Eurydice's upgrades, so the Nectar is probably the right choice there. Or you may have started with Coin Purse or Shattered Shackle and the boon array you have is garbage.
cunning urchin
I take Nectar like 99% of the time if I have the requirements for a run-sealing Duo or Legendary—or two even—which is most of the time if I'm not playing with AP2 etc.
You can very reliably get both Heart Rend and Smoldering Air on Coronacht, for example.
hearty elbow
Shrug, I can see that viewpoint. It's not like +1 rarity or 2-4 free poms are sufficient to make or break a run. I'd rather just err on guaranteed value.
cunning urchin
Which does much more than higher rarity or +1s.
hearty elbow
Do you have a source for the increase in duo/legendary chance? I was under the impression everything that said +rarity only applied to the common/rare/epic/legendary progression
I guess to rephrase the question, does that apply to Yarn of Ariadne and Chaos' rarity boon as well
cunning urchin
Yarn of Ariadne, yes.
Certainly Master Chaos's boon, too, since all the others do.
Source is some people from the speedrun discord who looked into and posted some of the source code when I asked about it.
hearty elbow
Yeah that works for me
I see, Olympian Favor is templated slightly different than Chaos Favor. Chaos says "or better"
cunning urchin
Yeah, the keepsakes etc. have "or better", too.
errant narwhal
@turbid needle im pretty late with this message, but please dont try to evade the swear filter!
cunning urchin
No evil words in this chat! 🔫
gray moon
if you Swear, Alecto will beat you with her whip
hearty elbow
Every time she calls me Trash God I can definitely read between the lines lol.
gray moon
man, i set out for a Caster build, and took Achilles Spear. Ended up with....everything. 300+ Serrated Dash, 100+ super fast basic attack, and Hunting Blades with Stygian Soul, with 2 charges
hearty elbow
No Fully Loaded? Uninstall
hearty elbow
Idk, I'm pretty sure you need to offer a blood sacrifice to Callisto or something
hearty elbow
It might be a duo boon with Artemis/Apollo
gray moon
Apollo? hidden new god confirmed?
hearty elbow
Pretty sure the only times I ever get Fully Loaded is when I want only Support Fire with Malphon, and the game gives me 300 Artemis boons after that. Plus Lightning Rod.
hearty elbow
It's fine I'm 300 hours in and I still don't have Second Wave. I won't give Poseidon the satisfaction of taking that many boons from him.
cunning urchin
if its too strong, just make it give 2 charges
That's what it does now lol. +2 ammo.
hearty elbow
When they did the boon reworks, so Blood Price pretty sure.
gray moon
did requirements change?
hearty elbow
Yeah
cunning urchin
Blood Price Update, yes.
barren otter
How does Hyper Sprint + Rush Delivery work? Is it basically an indirect dash-strike damage increase?
hearty elbow
Rush is global damage mod though, but yes.
turbid needle
how many ranks in fated authority do you need to reroll boons
I haven't seen the option yet but I'm up to 4
barren otter
fated authority (last purple mirror option - door rerolls) is maxed out at 10 and needs a ton of darkness (more than 80k total probably),
fated persuasion (last green mirror option - boon/well/pom rerolls) is maxed out at 4 and needs like 45k(?) darkness
tight eagle
any tips on Guan Yu aspect? I tried it with Artemis attack, anything else worth trying out?
gray moon
Persuasion is both cheaper, and more useful. Also, keep in mind that a key is worth 1 charge regardless of which you have, and Persuasion charges are more valuable. I havent touched Authority in a long time.
static jacinth
There is some merit to Authority if you have both maxed out.
Starting with 10 can be better than starting with 4.
And Authority is good if you're going for builds that really want one god.
But generally I like Persuasion more as well.
fallow niche
I will say that Authority's total darkness cost is kind of absurd
Especially considering that Persuasion's powerlevel with only 4 rerolls is on par with Authority's 10 and yet Persuasion costs astronomically less darkness
barren otter
well, authority is just a huge darkness sink
static jacinth
At least you'll always have something to use your darkness for I guess.
gray moon
it was definitely made to be a sink, no doubt
last charge costs, what, 40k?
but its fine, because you will start stockpiling darkness, and have nothing to use it with. Outside of the Fated stuff, you can max out the mirror with less than 10k darkness
and a heatless run nets 500 darkness easy, even more with Dark Thirst, Chaos Boons, etc...
static jacinth
Just something so that you don't feel your darkness is wasted.
gray moon
if only you could convert spare Darkness into gems...
Darker Thirst didn't really help, since it doesnt affect Fish
wise crescent
I feel like the Exagryph was built to encourage a layered gameplay, since it’s been my experience using your special doesn’t interrupt your reload. So firing until empty, quickly tapping reload and then your special in quick succession (maybe with a dash or two to reposition) and by the time you’re done with one (or three, triple bomb gang) shot(s) of your special, you’re done reloading. Sure, you can focus only on attack or your special, but you’d be losing out on optimal damage while waiting for your gun to reload. I’ve only been playing a couple weeks, so feel free to correct me if it’s something more apparent at very high heat gameplay, but that’s just been my experience with it, and I feel like the many calls to reduce the reload or casting time of either the attack or reload will only pigeonhole one’s gameplay.
half crater
honestly i 100% agree
but it’s probably one of the weapons i use a bit less, and i certainly haven’t pushed really high heat on it, so i’m certainly no authority
hazy cliff
Question - what attack boon do you guys think is the best with shield? I have my "go to" for all weapons besides the shield
fallow niche
I don't generally use attack as the main source of damage with shields tbh
Special or cast in beowulf's case take up more precedence generally speaking
unkempt pagoda
generally you want damage modifier gods on shield attack, something like demeter/aphrodite/artemis
when i play attack shield, i tend to use dash strikes a lot, so hunter dash helps
glass rapids
zag shield would probably work well with artemis dash
random hull
Pulverizing Blow is ideal as a hammer.
gray moon
Its crazy good for shield, especially Zag
fallow niche
Shield dash attack is the most awkward of all the weapons in my experience
Can't seem to dash attack a ton in a row like other weapons when you get +2 or more hermes dashes
snow meteor
Does anyone have tips on how to use the bow properly and which boons works well with it? I have such a hard time with that weapon. I feel like a dumb dumb ;_;
unkempt pagoda
you want to get hammers as quickly as possible, as it is very hammer dependent
if you're going for an attack build, dash strikes should be your main gameplay loop
twin shot is always a good pick, triple + chain work great together, explosive raises the damage to an extreme (and pairs well with twin)
i don't like flurry much but it is a great choice, distant/point blank/perfect shot are player preference and i generally consider them secondary choices
as for special builds, all the available hammer options are fine. if you're doing non-chiron, you want to pick up charged volley first and foremost
chiron can't get charged volley (or piercing volley), so your next best options are relentless volley + concentrated volley
as for boons
- attack: functions as a slow, high damage strike. you want damage modifier gods on attack (preferably aphrodite or artemis, though you can skip artemis entirely if you're using zag bow) once again, you want to use dash strikes, as they charge faster than regular attacks. (hunter dash from artemis pairs extremely well with bow)
- special: widespread, low damage strikes. don't use zeus on special with chiron (thunder flourish has an internal cooldown, chiron strikes too fast for you to get anything more than one bolt) dio can spread poison around the room (or give max stacks if used as a shotgun), and ares can spread doom around the room
static jacinth
Alternatively, use the special for duo boon requirements you want.
And never use the special otherwise on non-Chiron or Rama builds.
crude sky
How well does Trippy Shot do in non-caster builds? Currently playing with the rail and wondering if it'll struggle for dmg later on w/o the stuck-in bonus.
static jacinth
It's fine good Chen.
crude sky
good chen?
unkempt pagoda
it’s already high damage aoe with a stun/slow rider
crude sky
all good, appreciate the help.
it's such a strange cast compared to the others that i struggle when evaluating it
cerulean zealot
Any tips for Aspect of Zagreus Spear build? Are people focusing more on the Special over other things?
blazing mulch
with the bouncing special its nut
cerulean zealot
The daedalus upgrade, right?
blazing mulch
yes
but the explosive one will work too, with Poseidon
easy do to Lernie with it
as its quite high range dmg
cerulean zealot
cool will try it out (ps, love your account avatar)
drowsy dagger
i like the dash attack upgrades on the spears
cerulean zealot
Ya that dash ones are very fun as well
I guess my thinking right now is that I want to learn the weapons and their aspects. Since the Aspect of Zagreus Spear has an buff to special dmg (along with range and speed), I figured going with the Special was the way to go.
fervent canyon
Quick question, do the urns/skull rings in final boss count as trap damage?
Wondering if sure footing is more useful than it seems
cerulean zealot
The urns in Hades count as trap damage
fervent canyon
Hmm
cerulean zealot
Having Heightened Security will up the urn dmg 400% (30dmg normal, 150 dmg with HS)
fervent canyon
Got it
cerulean zealot
It's actually what just ended my last run 😦
fervent canyon
So maybe if you have HS on
Sure footing from Athena is pretty solid
For making the last fight less painful
cerulean zealot
Ya I wish I had it
crude sky
Wow.... I wish there was a way to delete boons. Had a solid build w/ the rail and just got Sea Storm to pair with Tempest Strike. What could go wrong buying an anvil?
turbid needle
Buying an anvil at all.
fervent canyon
wow, I think I've been underestimating Hera aspect
I just had a slicing shot run with Hera and it was so fun
turbid needle
Someone break down Fated Persuasion for me. People say it's great for picking exactly what you want on a run, that it's the most reliable option for getting Duos and Legendaries.
But every time I take it, I get two or three boons that I want, and then never see anything else for the rest of the game for what I was actually trying to build.
Are you guys scouting every 32+ run?
cerulean zealot
I mean, it still has an element of RNG. Just let's you reroll your options giving you a greater chance for the boons you want.
fervent canyon
^
If you're going for a specific build, it gives you a higher chance of achieving it
turbid needle
Okay, I'll repeat myself, must not have said it clearly enough.
I don't get enough boons.
I try with Achilles to get Hunting Blades, I get two Artemis, one Ares in Tartarus, and don't see either until a Trial in Elysium.
So are you scouting every run to make sure you can actually get a decent turn-out?
turbid needle
Authority lets you very easily brute force a dozen boons and get Duos and Legendaries.
Persuasion appears to me to be a great way to get high HP, lots of Obols, and 4+ levels on all 8 boons you got that run.
That being said, it was 2-2-2-2 so you didn't get enough chances to spawn any Duos or Legendaries anyway.
fervent canyon
hmm, that's strange to me
I never feel like I don't have enough boons on runs
are you taking the keepsakes?
turbid needle
Yup.
fervent canyon
idk, you might just be getting unlucky then
If I don't get the boons I want i usually just try to adapt my run in another direction I guess
doesn't always work out well but what can you do
RNG screws us all sometimes
question, does slicing shot do backstab damage? if the edge of the blade hits the back of an enemy?
I was on my Hera slicing shot run and I could have taken exposed for extra backstab damage but I wasn't sure if it comboes with slicing shot
turbid needle
I don't believe so.
fervent canyon
yeah, it would probably be overpowered if it did I guess
they would have to make it so only the half of the blade behind the enemy does backstab damage
and it already does a lot so it might get really broken
drowsy dagger
oh man, I have chain lightening on attack, triple dash attack, tri-spear attack, and a boon from artemis for seeking arrows on every hit
plus an attack boost from chaos
fervent canyon
Sounds nutty
drowsy dagger
not enough for the duo boss fight
boreal sage
im just trying to beat the final boss. i got there once but i got destroyed
actually the third boss is ussually my biggest issue
i just end up with aspect of talos fists and buildd for special
cerulean zealot
Theseus and Asterius can be tough at first
cerulean zealot
Idk about everyone else, but my personal strategy is to go for Theseus first (mostly cuz he's so cringe lololol)
boreal sage
bull hits so hard tho and he chases you around
cerulean zealot
Ya, once he has his shield up (which is really only when he is going to throw his spear) I start dashing around trying to position myself so that he throws it, he misses, and I'm right behind him able to start backstabbing him
boreal sage
theseus will just plink you from the back line and you get deflect for that and hes useless
i just generally hate shield bois in elysium
cerulean zealot
I know the Bull hits hard, but usually he can be kited away from Theseus or just dash/deflect/dodge(if lucky) his attacks
Ya, the shield guys in elysium are the worst
It's about positioning yourself for those backstabs and learning their attacks so you know what's about to come
boreal sage
the bull isnt awful, hes not hard to dodge but he just wont stop
cerulean zealot
As Asterius does lolol, but ya, I'd say try to kite him away, get in any hits you can where you'll hit both of them
boreal sage
yeah backstab is OP
cerulean zealot
And as I said, my personal favorite way to do it is to focus Theseus
Only cuz I find it hilarious after all his boasting
fervent canyon
My general strategy is to go for Asterius first
Theseus will throw his spear at you, but if you’re standing behind a column it won’t hit you
Bait Asterius back and forth, try to get a few hits on his back and then get out.
Once you get Theseus by himself he’s not too tough, he has a spin move you can dash through and sometimes throws his spear
When his back is turned, hit him
rancid fractal
are there conditions that need to be met to ||fight charon||? or is it just random?
rancid fractal
hmm okay, guess i'm extremely unlucky
played for several hours yesterday and didn't see it once
snow meteor
@unkempt pagoda ohh thanks for the bow advice!!
That should absolutely help.
boreal sage
'scuse me fight charon? wtf?
main osprey
@boreal sage post final-boss, there's a chance for you to do so
boreal sage
oh i havent beat final boss
main osprey
ye
I'd be careful looking too much in this channel, as well. We're more careful about tagging spoilers here than in #h1-story-discussion (for obvious reasons) but a lot of post final-boss or otherwise hidden things will still be discussed here
Still a fine place to ask for gameplay questions, or #h1-for-new-players works as well
boreal sage
heres a question
is it just me or does spear special feel underpowerd?
the base one and the ||aspect of achilles|| both just seem not great
main osprey
I haven't felt like that, really, though I don't like || achilles aspect ||
main osprey
shield is good, I've definitely had some of my best runs with it
boreal sage
what aspect do you use?
boreal sage
i was using the ||zues || one
main osprey
that one's a bit tricky, nice
boreal sage
i mean i died with it
barren otter
||Achilles|| spear is excellent for a cast-focused build
boreal sage
why is that?
i mean i love athenas cast buff and i get it ALL the time whenver prompted
snow meteor
Ohh I love using the ||zeus|| aspect, Ive great runs with that one a lot. When it hit just right oof you destroy everything.
barren otter
cause of post-raging rush bonus, it applies to attack and cast, the bonus damage is huge when the aspect is maxed out.
muted herald
does attack chain lightning not roll anymore on adamant rail
untold quiver
I can second what @barren otter is saying....my best spear runs are Ares Cast runs with Achilles
random hull
Not only the damage bonus helps, but also that you can aim a cast with far more accuracy, especially the short range ones (Ares, Aphrodite).
glass rapids
the damage bonus for ares would only work on four hits of the same cast right
untold quiver
@glass rapids no it increases the "per tick" damage of the next 2 casts
So you spear toss, jump to ...and then let two buzz saws rip
glass rapids
oh that's really good
i guess it would work like that for beam too
Hunting blades/ crystal clarity would melt stuff
untold quiver
I like it with Ares because once you get the hang of it, you don't NEED hunting blades, where I feel like you NEED crystal clarity
glass rapids
yeah beam is really bad without duos
random hull
Achilles Spear and Freezing Vortex has proven to be especially effective for me, because you can bypass the reduced speed very well that way.
untold quiver
Which combo is that?
random hull
Ares/Demeter
Very difficult to use due to the reduced size and speed of the blade rift, but deadly in combination with Arctic Blast.
With Achilles, you can cast it right on top of an enemy with ease.
untold quiver
Gotcha
wise crescent
does attack chain lightning not roll anymore on adamant rail
@muted herald I get it pretty frequently
hearty elbow
Someone break down Fated Persuasion for me. People say it's great for picking exactly what you want on a run, that it's the most reliable option for getting Duos and Legendaries.
But every time I take it, I get two or three boons that I want, and then never see anything else for the rest of the game for what I was actually trying to build.
Are you guys scouting every 32+ run?
@turbid needle
The argument for Fated Persuasion (and let's for now ignore rerolling Chaos, Wells, Pools of Purging, and Poms) is that most functioning builds only need 2-3ish boons specifically to function. The rest is support and filler. I don't think that it necessarily makes Duos/Legendaries more likely, though it does effectively let you get 1-3 "free" Boons from Gods when you do get the God you want.
Most functional builds should be set with 2 or 3 boons that they want, and be able to play flexibly from there. If your intent is to target more than 3 boons specifically you're already submitting to the whims of RNG.
It gets "objectively" better when RI1 and UC are thrown in, because the value per key for Persuasion is just a lot more than 1 Authority roll. That's evident from the amount they start you with.
untold quiver
To add to this with a practical example....when I play Hera Bow, my "Build" is Festive Fog based....Fated lets me take the Dio keepsake and withing the first couple rooms, have Festive Fog, so I have more opportunities for duo later, I have my "key" ability before I would get any Poms of power, etc etc
This is also why I encourage my friends that start asking about "builds" to limit you idea to one "Main God" and then the "Duo" you might chase after,
cunning urchin
@turbid needle I asked pretty much the same thing a few months ago about Fated Authority when everyone was talking about how much better than Persuasion it was lol. I never quite figured out how to make Authority work me, but that's probably also because I just understand Persuasion so much better at this point that I'm getting way more out of it. So there's not much incentive for me to really learn Authority. It's probably somewhat similar for you.
I don't really know any "general" tips except, I guess, you can reroll the first boon in Tartarus to get the exact core boon you want, which can make runs very consistent in that regard. And if you want a Legendary or Duo Boon, rerolling boons from miniboss chambers gives you a very good chance for that.
At higher heats with AP etc., boons have less value anyway, and things like Centaur Hearts are very important, so whenever I try Authority, I find myself not really using any rerolls because I'm quite fine with the chamber rewards I get normally.
gusty elm
how often per second do blade rifts hit? can't find information anywhere
cunning urchin
Every 100 msec.
gusty elm
https://discordapp.com/channels/456889434672201729/725021639506526249/750020417959493692
so looking at this, it looks like vicious cycle would cap out around a cool +50% bonus if every one of the 60 hits was hit
cunning urchin
Lesser Call does 12 hits and Greater Call does 60 hits in total.