I never said that aspect for a reason π
#h1-builds-and-combat
fallow niche
Bow sucks, outside perhaps Hera
Its consistently the slowest weapon for low heats and it does not shine at higher heats either
Listen I understand you stan this hammer but its getting unreasonable lol
hearty elbow
If we're talking about second hammers (which we're not since that's always kind of a moot point), then Hestia really just doesn't have hammers period that do anything, GY has like... Breaching Skewer? But Beo has Dread Flight
fallow niche
You only get second hammer in Elysium at earliest
And by that point the builds have diverged a whoooole ton
You gotta examine a bit more at that point
Also you gotta hope to be lucky to get a specific second hammer
Lets be honest
Sure you can prepare a hammer you want at the start of a run, but later? That's kinda lucky
hearty elbow
Lol, I don't dislike Charged Flight. I love the ranged playstyle. Minus the additional AoE it really just feel basically like Charged Skewer. I'm saying that hitting for 700+ with one boon in Tartarus is mayyybbbee a little whack
fallow niche
Worrying about damage numbers alone would make Excalibur prime target #1 to get nerfed since it can chunk for like 2k+ in Tartarus sometimes lol
hearty elbow
After 10 years of animations maybe lol
hearty elbow
Base 200 doe
fallow niche
(though to be real, if it gets epic hermes attack speed then its actually nuts)
(but that's asking a lot)
hearty elbow
And hammers only help so much, you really want Greater Consecration the higher you go
fallow niche
Though I will say if we really want to talk about busted hammers
Double Edge on Nemesis Sword is unreal
Current WR on any heat is 5 minutes flat IGT
I believe it also has lowest RTA with like 9:30 something
As a last note I will say I'm far more concerned with the lower spectrum end of hammers than higher; the amount of terrible hammers far, far outnumbers the number of good ones. I like picking up a hammer and wondering what goodies I'll get rather than dread just how bad its going to screw up my run.
hearty elbow
That's mostly compounded by the toxic interaction bad hammers have with AP2
fallow niche
Oh god don't even remind me
If I had my way I'd buff most of the hammers and delete AP2 from the game
Though I'm not sure either is realistic at this point 
hearty elbow
We are on the same page though. I think the hammers need to be brought up to a more comparable level. Not a 6x base damage multiplier comparable, but like, on the level of say... Twin Shot. Somewhat contradictorily I think they should also buff Twin Shot lol.
fallow niche
Twin Shot is a perfect example
Its just good, nothing crazy
I don't mind some niche hammers that are just good in a specific environment and meh/whatever in other contexts
But the amount of just straight awful hammers is kinda astounding lol
hearty elbow
Charged Volley... ugh
fallow niche
Wait that one is actually good if you use it well
Zag bow, Artemis special
Awkward but works
hearty elbow
Oh I know. But it requires you to be inside an enemy and charge a 20 year long animation
hearty elbow
It is an abomination that it is offered on Rama but not Chiron either
hearty elbow
Lol, I like Snap Nova. It's very awkward but it serves as basically a +1 dash on Nemesis
It is... unwieldy at best if you are already in melee range, yes.
hearty elbow
I don't use that trash
fallow niche
And on Nem Sword I'd never want it honestly, just more actual dashes to abuse Double Edge more
hearty elbow
I haattee the recall lol
fallow niche
Yeah without the recall it seems like it would be REALLY fun
Jump on it: the hammer
Cursed Slash is also kinda cursed but at least that lets it be a meme 
A cursed slash for a cursed run
hearty elbow
it also kind of makes Anvil unusable on Stygius lol
fallow niche
TRUE
Oh god
I didn't even think about that
lmao what poor soul accidentally did that I don't want to imagine
hearty elbow
Tbf I never would have thought to use Cursed Slash on Excalibur until I yolo'd it on an Anvil, and as I had HL0 it was actually kinda busted.
fallow niche
Wait you can get it on Excal? π
Oooh, I gotta try this
If the health cost wasn't so absurd it would be usable on other sword aspects
hearty elbow
It's... not great with HL5 lol but at HL0 I felt very near unkillable
hearty elbow
Maaaybe? You're a lot better than I am lol. I feel like a pinata with Excal on FO2 x_x
fallow niche
When Excal came out I tried it on 32 heat and it was pretty fun, takes some getting used to but its extra health and its aura are kind of incredible when you can get past its slowness
Leans really hard on Hermes boons though
hearty elbow
And Divine Dash lol
fallow niche
I actually didn't run Divine Dash most of my runs with it
Athena attack though was pretty nice
Wide arcs
hearty elbow
At HL0 I typically run Heartbreak Strike
fallow niche
Yeah between that and Artemis is probably the right call
Not sure which is better though since Priv Status is nuts
hearty elbow
At HL5 I just play to not get hit and use Deadly lol.
fallow niche
Deadly is incredible after all
hearty elbow
Someone posted on Reddit a strat for consistent 40 heat Excalibur using the Shattered Shackle and running Owl Pendant for Divine Dash in Tartarus
edit: or I guess more optimally you could just seed for Divine Dash in room 1 without Pendant so you could use Shackle right away but that sounds awful.
You could get away with HL0 by using AP2
main osprey
Just do a no-boons run
fallow niche
I hope they buff it just a tiny bit more but that'd probably be too much π
hearty elbow
Lol, is it possible to route a no boons run?
hearty elbow
What does UC do?
fallow niche
I want to do this now LMAO
main osprey
I've gotten partway through Asphodel on 40 heat no boons
main osprey
Underworld Customs, you need to sell a boon at the end of each region
fallow niche
No no I mean
hearty elbow
Lol, I hope you just don't have to sell one but I could easily see it working the other way too
F10
fallow niche
Yeah I'll find out and F10
main osprey
I haven't managed to do that because it's nearly impossible to find pools of purging in Tartarus
fallow niche
Don't worry I'll find out
hearty elbow
#science
main osprey
Hahaha
fallow niche
Will report in here tomorrow π
main osprey
I don't have the patience to route that much xD
fallow niche
It takes a long time if you want a perfect route
hearty elbow
Luckily this should be a pretty straightforward routing task.
fallow niche
a no-boons run should only take me an hour or two at most
Yeah
Dodging miniboss will be the hard part
They always have a boon
And some rooms can force them on you
hearty elbow
You could route for Nourishing Soul though lol
fallow niche
PFFFT
hearty elbow
There should be a first time for everything
fallow niche
you're right
main osprey
Lol
main osprey
Lol
hearty elbow
The poetic justice of a human being spending time to route for Nourishing Soul is reward enough
main osprey
XD
fallow niche
I will make sure I get exactly three boons in Tartarus: Nourishing Soul, Sunken Treasure, and Refreshing Nectar
main osprey
It used to be possible to get rare Crop without boons, but I think they fixed that
hearty elbow
I heard on the grapevine that Poms with no boons gives you gold
main osprey
Yup
fallow niche
Rare crop was always the buggiest boon, it used to increase GY healing lol
It still has bugs, some dude had it permanently make his boons common on stream today π
main osprey
Gimme a sec and I can tell you how much Ledgerdamayn
hearty elbow
What are the rules for replacement boon rarities? Is it always +1?
hearty elbow
that is fairly arbitrary
main osprey
Β―\_(γ)_/Β―
hearty elbow
like... someone needed to come up with that number lol
main osprey
Might also be 195, just pretty sure it ended with 95 lol
hearty elbow
How is the amount of gold Sisyphus drops determined?
main osprey
A bit of RNG, I think between 95 and 115? Not certain about that range though
Generally about 100 though
hearty elbow
Yeah I feel like I've gotten stuff in that range. Is there a cap on how much ambient gold can drop from a room? In the event that you get Obol room vs. SIsyphus
main osprey
Also, 300-obol poms give 325 back, and I think normal poms give 195 back
hearty elbow
... those are numbers I suppose.
main osprey
They're both larger than the base cost, which is the main reason I think
I'll test more next time I get a chance, I have a few different things I'm testing rn lol
This, chaos boon stacking, BP with exalted, plus my own high heat runs
Plus my quest to continue breaking the shield's mechanics
hearty elbow
I'm testing Animal Crossing atm. 51 heat practice runs were applying too much salt
hearty elbow
Bow is not good. I don't know why I bother.
main osprey
Right now, I'm testing some Cannoli Ice Cream from Ben and Jerry's :3
hearty elbow
Solid. I'm more an Aspect of Half Baked kind of guy
You know a weapon is good when you seed for Explosive Shot so that with epic Divine Strike you can hit for 250-300 damage after charging for 2 seconds. I seeded for this.
gentle mason
Hey all, I got a quick question: Been running Chiron Bow for a little bit (I know, bow's trash), but does anyone have any inclination on hammer choices?
Like, is Twin Shot always a guaranteed get, or would something like Relentless Volley be better (since most damage is coming from Special)?
main osprey
The hammer that gives +4 shots to special is huge
concentrated volley is also good
I wouldn't bother with twin shot, honestly
cunning urchin
I would take Twin Shot 100% of the time to be honest.
main osprey
even on Chiron??
cunning urchin
Yes, on Chiron.
gentle mason
Ok cool! That's kinda what I thought, but have been conditioned to always go for twin shot lol
void fjord
i mean if you get twin shot plus explosive shot, its not a range build anymore, it melee one
cunning urchin
With Chiron, you always want to hit things with your Attack first, and so if you can double the damage on your Attack, why would you not do that?
There are also so many situations where killing things off with two or three Twin Shots is just faster than using your Special.
main osprey
true
gentle mason
I mean, I usually try and grab both (if I'm so lucky). Just this was the one instance where it gave me both options on one hammer
Was hard to compare the possible damage output in my head
And yeah, good point on the killing things with multiple attacks instead of special (why is special so slow)
cunning urchin
My runs with Chiron are always faster if I just almost entirely ignore the Special, unfortunately.
void fjord
i do prefer hera and the 4th aspect for the reason of almost not giving a damn abt the special
however for chiron I do remember once when i got a epic artemis boon for my special along with the +4 to special arrows
crits for days
hearty elbow
My runs with Chiron are always faster if I just almost entirely ignore the Special, unfortunately.
@cunning urchin This becomes unfortunately true the higher heat you get, though at low heat, special builds definitely still work.
The weird problem with Chiron is that its best hammer is not available to it lol. It doesn't get Charged Volley
gentle mason
@void fjord yeah, that's literally the build I'm running atm lol
Although Artemis is pretty strong on anything tbf
cunning urchin
I think the "problem" with the Special is more that things used to be balanced around Zag Sword more, but then we got more and more weapons and aspects and people figured out more optimized builds, and now suddenly there's this feeling of hey I can do all of this strong stuff with this aspect, why is that other aspect so weak in comparison.
void fjord
tru, but if it has high fire rate then you kinda reap the benfits more
cunning urchin
So now we just expect more from aspects.
void fjord
like aphro or arty atk being OP on ||arthur|| or demeter aspect
hearty elbow
Charged Volley would definitely mitigate the horrible startup (though not the end lag) of the special animation at least. And give you payoff for standing still for 2 seconds
cunning urchin
I actually checked how many frames at 60 fps it takes before you can dash cancel a volley from Coronacht, and it's 32 frames. For Chiron, too.
hearty elbow
That's painful
cunning urchin
So you're locked in the animation for 533 msec.
Dash-Strike Power Shot was somewhere around 35f depending on how fast you release.
hearty elbow
That doesn't sound right. 35f after you release? Huh.
cunning urchin
35f for dash + Attack until you can dash-cancel again.
Assuming you do a power shot.
So you can choose to release it earlier.
hearty elbow
Oh, I see, 35 from when you start the charge, so you're free to dash frame 1 after the power shot
cunning urchin
35 from when you start the dash, actually.
Then cancel into Attack immediately.
Then after the release, there's a little bit of recovery.
dash + attack startup + release + recovery = ~35 frames
Pretty sure that's how I counted it.
My notes are only:
Coronacht Volley: 32f before dash cancel
Chiron Volley: 32f before dash cancel
Dash Strike Power Shot: ~35f "
hearty elbow
Hmm, yeah, interesting, I'm playing with it now. There's obviously very little possibility I'm pressing dash frame 1 after the power shot release but there doesn't really feel like a time where I need to recover before it works.
Chiron's definitely feels the 32 frames though, and however long the ICD is
cunning urchin
It's actually not that difficult to press Attack within 1 frame of pressing Dash. I play fighting games, that kind of input is pretty common.
hearty elbow
... I do too, and it certainly is not lol. Not without buffering
cunning urchin
That's what plinking is all about.
Β―_(γ)_/Β―
Anyway, you probably can't cancel on frame 1 anyway, so it shouldn't make a difference.
dry ember
How do frames work if you are not running at 60fps?
cunning urchin
Dunno how they do it actually lol. I just set my in-game fps to 60 with V-Sync on when I tested it.
hearty elbow
I doubt they use frames for animations, they probably use the clock
Though it doesn't really change the measurements she took, since she locked her frame rate
cunning urchin
Nah, all the animations are 2D frames. They talk about it a bit in the no clip documentaries, and they talk about frames when they talk about moves here, like "we added 1 frame of invincibility to dash" and things like that.
hearty elbow
So they just do conversion jutsu to people with variable framerates, or is Hades itself locked?
cunning urchin
No idea how they make it work lol.
hearty elbow
I guess it makes sense since you can't change the framerate in game, so there should be little bearing on inputs and stuff if your graphics framerate is just determining how often you see things instead of game state
Still triggered from Dark Souls' bungling of that concept lol
cunning urchin
Yeah, you'd still have an advantage with higher frame rate because your screen updates earlier.
hearty elbow
That's mostly always true though, especially in FPS
I say "mostly" because high refresh rates in Dark Souls 2 meant that you could eat through a weapon's durability in like 2 combos sometimes lmao
cunning urchin
lol
barren otter
Is Scion of Chaos victory title in the game?
https://imgur.com/VTCVt5b
Just had a run where I got 2 +special damage boons from Chaos and a death defiance from them too. (screenshot in #h1-victory-boasting, the same screenshot that has rush delivery and speed ups)
hearty elbow
Interesting. No idea. It'd be cool if there was a prophecy that helped track that stuff
cunning urchin
It's possible you need 3 different boons from them, so the two Flourishes would only count as 1. I'd say send an F10, anyway. Might be a bug.
barren otter
interesting
cunning urchin
It's definitely in the game.
barren otter
Does Blown Kiss stack with Fiery Presence?
cunning urchin
Yeah.
magic dagger
@main osprey I'm sure you noticed, but I still haven't finished that challenge I was going to finish on thursday
were you also actually going to try HWC10 with attack and special unbound
main osprey
At some point, yeah
Made it to Hades' second phase without acorn, which was the first bonus challenge
So I might give that another go
Also without cast or call
cunning urchin
What is HWC10? 
small stirrup
Oh I just noticed you're no more aspect of zoom anymore @magic dagger
cunning urchin
He graduated.
magic dagger
Hades Spear + one of each heat
small stirrup
What is HWC10?
Its the weekly challenge
Hades Weekly Challenge 10
magic dagger
I discovered that I suck at Hades so I removed all reference of it from my profile
small stirrup
Oof
small stirrup
I might be tripping but I swear Lysol said something 10 seconds earlier
main osprey
Don't swear, the bot doesn't like that
cunning urchin
I think Lysol ate his own words. 
main osprey
I wonder if they tasted good
small stirrup
Did they @magic dagger ?
cunning urchin
Maybe it was a tasty word salad.
magic dagger
everyone who needed to see it probably did
cunning urchin
HWC would make an interesting acronym.
magic dagger
Hook
cunning urchin
. . .
magic dagger
pronounced oo instead of uh
main osprey
Lol
cunning urchin
Hyuk.
main osprey
I think more "h-wick"
fervent canyon
Iβm too over reliant on spamming dash, to the point where if I donβt get Hermes extra dashes Iβm basically screwed
magic dagger
you should stop
main osprey
Get some help
cunning urchin
Sounds like you know the solution:
magic dagger
your run is also worthwile as a dodge tech
cunning urchin
Get extra dashes from Lord Hermes.
fervent canyon
Lol
Sounds about right
Itβs frustrating when you know an attack is coming but already used up your two dodges and are in cool down
small stirrup
Hyuk.
My Goofy instincts kicked in
magic dagger
I discovered that I suck at Hades so I removed all reference of it from my profile
so now I'm going to stop doing hard things in favor of pushing heat on the only good sword aspect
dry ember
bruh
magic dagger
bruh
@dry ember what?
sonic hinge
What's the best aspect for the shield?
main osprey
Chaos, imo
magic dagger
Forge10 cleared max heat with it, so it's definitely pretty good
dry ember
Yep, Chaos Shield is pretty tried and true. Although you kinda need to upgrade the shield to at least level 3 or 4, anything lower is quite... underwhelming.
fallow niche
@sonic hinge Depends on what you mean by 'best'. Chaos is the most reliable for clearing the game, but its not particularly fast.
Zeus and Beowulf are both faster shields
Chaos and Beo both have especially stronger showings at high heat
Really depends on what you want out of them
@turbid needle https://clips.twitch.tv/HedonisticGiftedPanGrammarKing
new WR soonβ’οΈ
we're working on it
turbid needle
How does Zeus work for speedrunning?
fallow niche
Merciful End
Any combination of athena/ares on attack/special and get ME
Explosive Return is also pretty silly with it
turbid needle
I knew about ER cheese.
fallow niche
People have mostly settled into Beo though since its less awkward
Go for Aphro cast
Its super chunky
also look at that clip 
turbid needle
Send that to Amir, let's get Spread Fire reverted already.
turbid needle
This isn't?
turbid needle
What did old Spread Fire do, stack Hangover too quickly?
fallow niche
Uh no
turbid needle
It wasn't Nova on Attack.
turbid needle
5 pellets, each of which dissipate after hitting something.
fallow niche
Current spread fire is still good despite the massive nerfs
OH
You mean Old Old spread fire
When it was individual projectiles
turbid needle
Yeah, Spread Fire since Nighty Night has been awful and I want it gone.
fallow niche
I mean it was busted as hell come NN update and after the nerf its just a general good hammer and not OP
turbid needle
Spread Fire has not been meaningfully changed in the nerfs since its mechanics change.
fallow niche
People complained about how awkward it was before so they made it into its current wave thing
turbid needle
It's clearly still massively OP.
fallow niche
No not really
fallow niche
Uh
That video isn't Spread Fire
Nerfed SF can't do a sub-5s heroes anymore probably lol
fallow niche
lmao schpoon
turbid needle
Bruh, I'm working six day weeks right now.
turbid needle
Can I get a sweat reaction?
fallow niche
Anyway yeah Nemesis sword is now the Big Badβ’οΈ
turbid needle
I've always loved Nemesis, people are just really starting to push its kit now.
fallow niche
Yeah its insane when combined with Double Edge
Double Edge probably doesn't need that 30% damage on top of attacking twice lol
turbid needle
I wish more of Stygius's Aspects could make the Attack work.
Worst standing Attack in the game, right?
fallow niche
Not the dash attack
turbid needle
Worse than the bow?
fallow niche
Dash attack with double edge is the best dash attack besides rail
turbid needle
Yeah, Dash-Strike is dummy broken.
fallow niche
The regular attack is terrible
Like
Holy smokes its bad
The thrust is the worst part
yeah let me just YEEEET my enemies to the other side of the room
turbid needle
And it's very very slow with a narrow hitbox.
fallow niche
Yup
Regular attack needs a big buff for the non-Arthur sword aspects
DE needs to lose that 30% damage
And Nemesis needs like a 5-10% crit chance reduction
Also buff zag sword pls
I think that would round them all out
fallow niche
Yeah with the DE damage nerf I think so too
Zag probably just needs to get total speed rather than just dash distance and movespeed
Make regular attack, not dash attack, faster to incentivize people to play it
Maybe special too
I think that would be enough
And keep the same concept of what they currently have going for it
Overall I think they should just give a pass of balancing on all the older aspects before release
Because everything added after Guan Yu's initial rebalance feels really balanced
Fists are solid, if Talos is a bit awkward, Arthur is unique and not bad, and Lucifer rail also fits the same bill even if its a tiny bit on the weaker side
New bow is kind of hard to figure out but it has some weird... interactions that make it not bad
Probably needs a tiny buff too but nothing major
Also Beo is perfect
They nailed that aspect
@turbid needle Your thoughts?
turbid needle
I feel like the Hera-alike part of Beowulf is just a little obtuse, but it's not awful.
I adore Lucifer.
Friggin' Satan laser.
fallow niche
Yeah its cool, I just wish it was a tiny but stonger, though that may entirely be because of its bad hammers lol
Hammers still have the, uh, worst balance in the game to put it mildly
turbid needle
I've heard people calcing it out frame by frame and saying that it doesn't actually ramp all the way to the end of its ammo.
Triple Bomb remains probably the Rail's strongest Hammer.
turbid needle
I don't have any Saitama emotes, but I hope you feel my stare boring into your soul.
fallow niche
Followed closely by rocket bomb or cluster probably, then by triple and other stuff
turbid needle
I like Rocket Bomb more than Triple but I think Triple is stronger.
fallow niche
The non-lucifer hammers are fine for rail
fallow niche
Rocket Bomb is quite decent/good until it gets cluster or triple to go with it, then it truly ascends
turbid needle
Flash Fire gets all of my love just for removing the wind-up.
Or at least cutting it way down.
fallow niche
Yeah none of the lucifer rail hammers actually... change anything about how it feels or plays or anything
I think they need a nudge to actually feel different like all the other hammers for weps do
Like, all of the sword hammers for example, just like the rail, change how the sword feels and plays
Even stuff like Snap Nova, to its own detriment
At least it adds a new experience
turbid needle
Snap Nova is completely fine because 2 Dash-Strikes even spammed extremely quickly is enough to expire the return.
People need to stop mashing Special.
fallow niche
Bro all you do in this game is mash buttons
Its also a DPS loss if you have to wait a bunch for every use of special
turbid needle
I mean double mashing Special.
With Nemesis you don't want to spam Nova anyway, you spam Dash-Strikes and then Nova every 3 seconds, more than enough time for the recall to expire.
fallow niche
I mean if you're taking snap nova on nemesis you probably chose the wrong hammer
turbid needle
We're long past the days of the T-Pose of Power.
fallow niche
Nemesis does not really want snap nova, it doesn't really do anything with it
visual holly
I miss the T-Pose of power.
fallow niche
As a special build hammer, its still a DPS loss and not really conducive to the rest of the game, the return is what makes it nausea inducing honestly
A real high-APM weapon is Achilles Spear
turbid needle
It does more than Shadow Slash or Cruel Thrust.
fallow niche
Shadow Slash is actually nuts you wot
turbid needle
Obviously it's way behind Double Nova and Super Nova.
fallow niche
It works on dash attacks now
turbid needle
What.
fallow niche
YES
turbid needle
There's no way.
fallow niche
YES ITS NUTS
turbid needle
Is that why Vorime got that fast a kill?
Okay, Shadow Slash needs hella nerfing then.
fallow niche
No actually, but its in our old route
We get it before Hades
And boy its real
I think they fixed it with the engine rehaul for Blood Price
Also, on Achilles Spear, I still can't use it properly but when the stars do align for me it can feel ridiculous
The buff brings tears to my eyes, its not Nemesis Sword level but its still good and rewarding to learn to use
turbid needle
I just use it with Slicing Shot builds.
turbid needle
Even 2 Casts with Hunting Blades ends the world.
I will.
One time I got 3 and Bad News.
The fastest phase 2 Dad fight I've ever had.
fallow niche
I would imagine, wew
glass rapids
what builds do you go with nemesis sword?
turbid needle
Double Edge, fish for some combination of Heart Rend.
I like Heartbreak Strike and Deadly Flourish, other people like Deadly Strike and Heartbreak Flourish.
glass rapids
i've never centered a run around hammer
fallow niche
You get artemis dash, artemis attack/aphro attack and whichever of the two you didn't get for you special so you can get heart rend
also hunters mark at some point, maybe even before heart rend
and every chaos gate you can find
@glass rapids this works without Double Edge, but obviously your DPS doubles with it so yeah
its a decent build without Double Edge, but with it, it gets kinda nutty
though how nutty it gets probably depends on how many good Chaos attack/dash strike boons you get during the run
unkempt pagoda
why does crystal beam feel so bad lol
i'm in the middle of a pretty good achilles run and i know it's doing good damage, but it doesn't feel fun to play
turbid needle
It tracks too slowly.
fallow niche
The slow tracking in a fast-ish paced game makes it really quite bad
Even with the Artemis duo its not the best
Losing the 50% damage from lodging a cast in for the beam is super oof
static jacinth
I like it a decent amount.
Depends on the build.
It's very fun with Poseidon sword.
And the damage is super safe.
You do sort of need the artemis or aphrodite duos to really get amazing mileage out of it.
But even with just Crystal glare for the slow it feels really good to have.
unkempt pagoda
got unhealthy fixation in tartarus, see yβall in #h1-victory-boasting
polar rivet
ive been having trouble with the gauntlets what are some good builds
fallen mirage
Nemesis Sword is a little strong: https://clips.twitch.tv/HedonisticGiftedPanGrammarKing
fluid heart
Disclaimer: Was a routing run
turbid needle
@fallow niche Trying Achilles Electric Shot and got Fully Loaded in Chamber 34.
fluid heart
To expand on that clip
6 epic Chaos boons, 5 of which are Dash Strike.
Don't know if that was the same route, think it was different. But definitely absurd.
Route is from Vorime and Forge10
fluid heart
@oblique glen curious if i'm missing something on the post i made in #hades-feedback, perhaps something i didn't consider when writing it out. I know something that is important to think about, and i hope i'm not giving you a reason you didn't already have here, is that micromanaging balance like that can be unnecessary or not a worthwhile endeavor.
Or if anybody else here has any opinions on it.
oblique glen
sorry i miss clicked. meant to upvote, fixed it now
finite igloo
oh, I posted to the reddit, but I should've checked here~ Is this the right channel for asking for help playing an aspect?
I've been playing this game (a lot) and I just play whatever weapon Dark Thirst pops up on, so I'm at about 12 heat with all the weapons, and I've been trying out all the aspects
but Igneus Eden just feels terrible to me and I'm trying to figure out how to make it work
dry ember
which boons do you often go for on the weapon?
cunning urchin
Lightning Strike > Support Fire > victory.
finite igloo
my thinking was to want something with higher damage on the special, and then something with an effect like Poseidon or Dionysus or Zeus on the laser itself
but I'm not sure, because like
im going to be honest, my most success i had with the weapon, I just did Blade Rifts lol π¦
which is not really Using The Weapon
dry ember
with Lucifer I think playing around special is quite difficult
you are better off focusing on the laser itself, so Nyaa's build is good with Lightning Strike and Support Fire
finite igloo
the ramping damage from the laser felt too hard to take advantage of in most encounters/fights past Tartarus
but maybe I'm wrong
i see
finite igloo
I don't think I knew that, somehow
dry ember
so the damage stream is uninterrupted.
you need to hold on to attack button
and dash
finite igloo
aye, makes sense, feel like I should have noticed that because I'd tried dash striking
dry ember
you also won't see Hunter Dash for that reason
finite igloo
but wa sthinking I might've noticed while I was testing the aspect out
dry ember
but in return you can dash while attacking if you hold both dash and attack
finite igloo
Eris has been my favorite exagryph but I figured I'd give Igneus a good shake
finite igloo
divine flourish is Athena special?
dry ember
writing is hard, brain too small
finite igloo
sorry, I'm still a bit bad at some of the names ;_;
finite igloo
I just got ||Bouldy boon|| on my most recent run~
how does that work, the orb deflects things or?
dry ember
the orb deflects stuff, at least it does in the couple of games I tried, unless I am very blind.
finite igloo
no yeah, it makes sense
dry ember
some people also suggested Athena Spec for luci
but again, your power mostly comes from attack, special is just a nice bonus π
finite igloo
yeah i was hoping I could still get Cluster Bombs from hammer but hadn't seen it appear π
dry ember
somehow I have never seen that on luci either. I don't think there is anything preventing you from getting it, but RNG is weird
finite igloo
seems like it would be pretty fun with the hellfire orbs, but maybe that's too fun π
fallow niche
Zeus on attack seems like the only way to go for Lucifer rail
Everything else feels so slow
Certainly the weakest rail aspect in that regard
finite igloo
i wondered if Demeter + the 10 stack freeze blast might be good but not sure how fast the stacks build up
fallow niche
Its not as fast as you might think lol
dry ember
at sub 32 heat I think Seastorm Super Soaker build is fun, not too viable at uber high heat but fun
dry ember
Demeter and Artic Blast are also good.
finite igloo
I saw that seastorm build but that seems a little too unreliable
dry ember
what Forge said is true, but also he's like playing at really high heat.
finite igloo
to like, count on getting the boons you need, I guess
fallow niche
I like fast builds on low heat too!
finite igloo
although I guess that'd be easier using keepsakes, I've only been using plume or butterfly so that I have to build with whatever I get
dry ember
I mean yeah but there are some builds that work well on Luci. Sometimes, gimmicky stuff is fun but that's besides the point. Optimal is Zeus. Experimental can be just about anything.
hmm there is a bit of a "meta" in term of keepsake use
(it usually doesn't involve plume or butterfly sadly)
finite igloo
I figure it changes dramatically for high heat stuff where it's probably much more important to get specific boons
dry ember
yeah, for sure
finite igloo
but for the moment, I really like the incentive playing with butterfly gives me to avoid ever taking damage
makes the early encounters a lot more engaging
dry ember
that's also fair. to each their own. I find using god keepsake in Tartarus gives me more reliable runs.
finite igloo
i guess higher heat would do that too
oh, i guess here's a question
does attack speed increase the rate of damage ramp
on the laser
i figure it should, right?
dry ember
my experience is that it increases attack speed, not ramp rate, because we have a hammer specifically for that. however, I am basing this on my gameplay experience, not concrete info, so grain of salt here
finite igloo
if it doesn't increase ramp rate, then it feels like attack speed would almost be WORSE because you'd burn through your ammo before the ramp reaches its height
okay since I'm about to do a sword run, what's your favorite sword aspect π
dry ember
Nemesis > Arthur > Poseidon > Zag Level 1 > Zag Level 5
finite igloo
pretty much the same then
dry ember
Poor Zag Sword, always gets the short straw, but honestly it's just so underwhelming.
fallow niche
Poseidon > Arthur > Nemesis > Zag overall
For my personal preference
In terms of powerlevel its: Nemesis > Poseidon > Arthur > Zag
finite igloo
arthur and guan yu i like so much because they're so different from the regular style and and arthur is a lot of fun swinging the big sword and playing around the aura
fallow niche
Yeah that's why I like it too
It adds a new gameplay experience
I've seen that sucker crit for 3k+
dry ember
fallow niche
WEW
finite igloo
also, maybe dumb question, but what is the clock like Plume on encounters? Is it fixed time per wave of spawns or something??
dry ember
did someone say big numbers?
dry ember
fallow niche
Lmao
dry ember
hmm no preview, im sad T.T
finite igloo
take that shield jerks
fallow niche
Beo can crit for an absurd amount too
dry ember
yeah, and it can ricochet also
finite igloo
haha I haven't played too much with beowulf, but it seemed like one of those things I know is probably Very Good, but im not sure I like using it
fallow niche
Beo has two playstyles: the cast build(s), and the charged special build
both are good
finite igloo
I've mostly been using Chaos for me shield
fallow niche
Chaos is probably the easiest shield to clear the game with
It just does everything
dry ember
I never expected Charged Flight to be a good hammer
finite igloo
(it helps that the chaos shield just looks cool)
fallow niche
Nothing particularly well, but it does everything well enough
dry ember
until the 50 heat clear and then the 52 one
fallow niche
shield, spear, and bow all have good charged specials
tho they're all usable on one aspect each
π
dry ember
I feel like charged hammers are good, but they are gravely hurt by the existence of Damage Control
void fjord
so is ares's support boon of your next hit doing more dmg after killing an enemy
finite igloo
Unexpected fun combo that run, Parting Shot (cast gets your backstab bonus) + Exposed boon, crystal beams fire at you boon
tight eagle
ngl, Rama aspect is probably the most powerful
hearty elbow
ngl, Rama aspect is probably the most powerful
@tight eagle Lol, you may be the first person ever with that opinion. Most people come on here and bemoan that they tried a power shot, took too long therefore weapon is trash.
The truth is somewhere in the middle. Rama is probably (?) the highest potential of the bows (it's not a highly contested position) but pretty middle of the pack at large.
tight eagle
I mean, Rama is very powerful with no upgrades, you can go full on machine gun with your special, which is beyond crazy imo, base attack is pretty bad though
I think Rama with Ares special and Doom stacking might be good
steel hazel
I like building Rama around Dio special
hearty elbow
I think I tried to seed/route for Relentless Volley + epic Curse of Pain before, but I gave up the project
On average, yeah, Dio special is probably the best option, as it allows you to also use your attack for damage
steel hazel
Might not be as good in 1.0, judging from the latest trailer, though
hearty elbow
If they pair it with an attack buff, either speed, or damage, then I think it will be a net buff altogether, because a fast, piercing spread volley like that is great for Attack builds
And Curse of Pain/Thunder Flourish
tight eagle
I might try the Dio Special, but I will try to go for Ares stacking special
I'm interested whether it would work
hearty elbow
Probably avoid using Impending Doom for QoL reasons
Eh. It sucks to wait but you probably can't afford to look gift DPS increases in the mouth.
steel hazel
Yeah, those 2 will be fine as long as special speed isn't nerfed
How many Rama special hits can you fit in before the doom hits? Unless you have a common Curse of Pain, Dire Misfortune doesn't seem that good next to a pommed-up special
hearty elbow
I know at some point I posted a vague timing for special here, let me look back.
Also, why would it matter though? Dire Misfortune only allows Doom to stack more, it doesn't decrease the original doom damage. I know for sure Rama special is less than one second, so with Relentless Volley, that's more than 70 "free" damage per Doom proc.
tight eagle
Gotta admit, Aspect of Lucifer + Artemis seeking arrows is absolutely bonkers
steel hazel
Yeah, I'm just thinking of opportunity cost against picking up something better. Might as well take DM if the other choices are just something else you won't use
hearty elbow
Ares isn't exactly swimming with options lol. I'd take Dire Misfortune over Impending Doom almost assuredly if I had Relentless
steel hazel
What would you have taken Relentless over?
hearty elbow
If I'm a special build? I take Relentless Volley over everything
steel hazel
If I had Curse of Pain already, I'd have wanted something good for my attack to use in between doom applications
Although I guess thinking on it again, Relentless might let you bounce to more new targets
hearty elbow
You'd have to run an anslysis over the optimal charge time for Rama attack that lets you maximize the Doom damage every 1.1 seconds. It may be more worth it to just spam special to make sure Doom is always up, though that would be wildly dependent on boons and hammers.
Impending Doom makes attack supplements a lot more attractive
Dire Misfortune the opposite
steel hazel
Do you know how to translate frame data to time?
hearty elbow
if you're recording at 60FPS, doom should proc every 66 frames
tight eagle
relentless is an absolute must on both Chiron and Rama
cunning urchin
@steel hazel just divide by your frame rate.
Multiply that by 1,000 if you want milliseconds.
steel hazel
Alright, thanks. Wasn't sure whether it was that simple. I guess I should check my frame rate, though? It's my first time getting in-depth with a game like this.
cunning urchin
What are you trying to do?
steel hazel
Theorycraft attack strings and calculate DPS from the game data
cunning urchin
What I would do is set my monitor to 60 Hz, turn on V-Sync in game, and record video at 60 fps.
That's assuming your hardware can keep up 60 fps and record at 60 fps.
hearty elbow
Don't forget to figure in the dash before the attack charge as well
steel hazel
Hold on, I'm seeing timings that seem to be in frames and timings that seem to be in seconds. Do these really translate differently at different frame rates? Like, if I were running at 144 fps, could I fit in way more DM stacks (BowSplitShot cooldown frames * Rama multiplier) into one doom proc (1.1 seconds)?
hearty elbow
It should absolutely not work that way, but game developers have screwed that up before, yes. If you have substantial evidence of that that's a serious F10
cunning urchin
Is there a non-serious F10?
steel hazel
I have no actual idea whether it's like that. Should I maybe assume 60 fps for calculations?
cunning urchin
"Hi, just wanted to say hi. Carry on."
hearty elbow
Lol I've F10'd Skullcrusher hitboxes from salt before, yes
cunning urchin
I don't know where you're seeing these timings.
steel hazel
PlayerWeapons.sjson -> Name = "BowSplitShot" -> Effects -> Name = "SplitShotDisable" -> DurationFrames = 26
hearty elbow
Don't quote me, but those frames assume 60 FPS, and are translated.
glass rapids
is the interaction between aspect of hera with phalanx shot and the greatshields intentional
you shoot them with loaded attack and the phalanx shot deals 0 damage
not sure if it happens with regular phalanx shot
hearty elbow
Are you shooting their shield?
glass rapids
with aspect of hera it's called shot isnt it
hearty elbow
Not with Trippy I don't think
glass rapids
also do i report it in-game?
hearty elbow
You can F10 it, but I suspect what's happening is that the arrow is slightly behind the Greatshield and the Shot comes from that, so you're overshooting and hitting the shield
I guess you could try to make the arrow end before it hits the greatshield
I know Crush Shot has similar issues
glass rapids
you still wouldnt get the arrow damage which sucks
cunning urchin
I don't have issues like that with Crush Shot on Hera, but I don't power-shot when I deliver my casts. So I would suspect that's what's causing issues for people.
Since Power Shots pierce.
hearty elbow
Wow. TIL. Lol, between using Zag aspect and Rama, I assumed all bow attacks pierced.
glass rapids
i've played multiple times with hera phalanx shot and i rarely power shot but ill check anyway
hearty elbow
Something Funky could be happening even if you hit the enemy without pierce. Phalanx Shot has an AoE so it could be registering as touching the shield so you get 0 damage. I'd F10 if you have the screenshot of 0 damage to be safe.
glass rapids
thats a hard one to screenshot
cunning urchin
You can F10 without the screenshot and just explain it.
glass rapids
but yeah i suspect thats what happens
because i hear the sound of the cast hitting the shield
anybody ever tried merciful end on hera? doom attack and phalanx
each shot deals a good chunk of damage(loading one phalanx at a time)
hearty elbow
Lol, that's a clever idea
glass rapids
its great with impending doom and good rarity/level cast
barren otter
First time ever perfected a trove
https://imgur.com/ih66c6y
hearty elbow
noice
barren otter
Achilles aspect spear with Zeus cast.
stable grotto
So question, I've seen so many guides with "make this build" etc but aren't builds difficult to do on account you have to use what you get?
fallow niche
Between god keepsakes and a good understanding of how seed boon selection work will allow you to more consistently build what you want
Though sometimes, albeit very rarely, you can just get shafted and have to use what you get
That's why generally speaking simpler builds are better
Achilles Spear with Zeus cast is a good example of this (though its not an easy weapon to play relatively speaking)
stable grotto
there's a method to boon selection?
usually i just get what I need "oh hey this one is a call skill and I got non and the other two are meh"
fallow niche
Well, moreso choosing chambers, but also that too
Every time you pick a new god its added to the pool of gods that will definitely be shown in future chambers as a reward
The only exception is when you choose specific boons that don't seem to add them to the pool - such as sunken treasure
And you also want to avoid core boons from gods that give you bad duos with the god(s) you do want
So like choosing Battle Rage over Ares special if you really don't want one of his duos to show up with another god when seeing their boons
Otherwise you start adding a bunch of bad boons into the boon pool making it harder to form the build you want
hearty elbow
Also if you want, say, a call from another God, but a call is offered now, you may want to just not take it because it makes future Calls much less likely to be offered
Visa versa. You may want to take a trash special if you're an Attack build because it makes it less likely for specials to appear across the board
static jacinth
Something you might not know is that Attack, Special, Casts and Dashes are more likely to show up if you don't have them yet.
fallow niche
Yup core boons are more common
hearty elbow
Also, when people say "builds", they'll post what the ideal form of the build is, but good builds are also flexible. E.g. Merciful End on Malphon with Curse of Agony doesn't actually need Merciful End to be viable. It's the best attack boon by itself too
stable grotto
whats a core boon?
static jacinth
Attack, Special, Cast and Dash.
static jacinth
Call isn't a core boon for priority.
fallow niche
It technically is, once you have one core boon it shows up with the rest
You just can't get it first
hearty elbow
I have definitely been offered a Call in room 1
static jacinth
I'm saying that it isn't more likely to show up than any other boon.
hearty elbow
It was a while, yeah
static jacinth
It can, but it doesn't have a better chance.
static jacinth
That's what I've been told multiple times anyway.
And it's consistent with what I've seen.
fallow niche
Call does have a better chance than other non-core boons
stable grotto
i see this might be why im struggling with stage 3 so much
ill go through 1/2 barely taking damage then just lose two/three lives in a single room
hearty elbow
Elysium is a big jump up from Asphodel in difficulty, yeah
fallow niche
Elysium is a biome full of really silly mobs
stable grotto
like i learned that for the spear, i really dont need a high damaging special so i just got it out of the way
fallow niche
Their damage hitboxes are absurd
stable grotto
not to mention Theseus and Bow and arrow peeps have REALLY good tracking
i managed to beat it with a really good spear build i lucked into but i couldn't seal the deal with hades
hearty elbow
Idk if its' tracking or they just have very fast projectiles and they pick their angle upon firing
stable grotto
out of 96 runs i got to the final boss twice
hearty elbow
So you can't just dodge around in general and hope they miss, you have to do it reactively
fallow niche
You can dodge their arrows, though it becomes much harder with Forced Overtime 2
I rarely get hit when I just spam dash unless they have FO2
hearty elbow
Yeah, that could be it for me too. Dash spamming sideways does next to nothing against Greatbows for me
stable grotto
like i know Theseus he can hit you if you dodge a milisecond too early and you're tagged right when the dodge ends. It doesn't help the huge chariots are there and will relentless chase you with little telegraph
add to it the butterfly balls and shield enemies
hearty elbow
Elysium is the first zone that asks real questions, vs. the previous zones, which just offer you mechanical hurdles to overcome.
(that gets a lot less distinct once you go up in heat, like e.g. Benefits Package 2 makes all zones ask real questions)
fallow niche
Well Elysium is also just strictly trying to scam you into a death to be fair π
Spearmen have a range longer than the tip of their spears so you have to really read their movements because simply dashing directly away will still get you hit
And Chariots can hit you from behind them so you can only just try and avoid their charge altogether
hearty elbow
With Chariots you're looking for a wall or gap to dash back and forth from. Gaps preferable so you can keep DPS'ing.
fallow niche
^^^
hearty elbow
If you're melee... well, good luck.
fallow niche
If you're shield you can hold block and then bull rush past them the moment they charge at you to avoid it
they use most of their charge distance turning around
stable grotto
Also doesnt help th at i find in Elysium ill go the longest streatches without any HP recovery
fallow niche
Its like being a matador
hearty elbow
I think that's variance. Patroclus offsets that too
fallow niche
Elysium is actually a shorter biome than tartarus and wells of charon are more common
Its just the fights last way longer
hearty elbow
And you take more damage, so healing is a more obvious need
half crater
Spearmen have a range longer than the tip of their spears
oh man this is real i thought i was going crazy
hearty elbow
If you use the spear and attack with it, it's a lot like that. It has a huge whooshing range in front of the actual spear end.
So it's not "unfair" per se, they're just following spear rules
half crater
i mean, to be fair, now that iβve started to consciously realise that they have longer range than my brain expects iβm starting to get better at dodging them
fallow niche
I mean I definitely think its unfair for enemies to hit you a massive range in front of both their weapon and animations lol
Doesn't really give you an intuitive way to predict their attacks
Just wait till you play with FO2 and BP2 then they become super obnoxious
hearty elbow
Lol, I definitely agree it's not intuitive, but it is consistent with how your own spear hitbox works
fallow niche
Sure, but its a singleplayer game and there is a difference as to why you give such a mechanic to the player rather than the enemies
Dead Cells devs realized that players enjoyed the game far more when they allowed players to still catch ledges even if they were a few pixels off
hearty elbow
The Skullcrusher butt hitbox is definitely the worst example I can think of for unintuitive, unjustifiable hitbox
half crater
Dead Cells devs realized that players enjoyed the game far more when they allowed players to still catch ledges even if they were a few pixels off
this happened with Celeste as well
fallow niche
Having the spear for players reach farther is because its far more intuitive for a player to use but its far more punishing and awkward for enemies to have that
And since its not a competitive multiplayer game you really don't have to worry about balancing it equally for player and enemies
hearty elbow
Yeah, I totally agree that it should be changed, but I can see why SGG would make it that way though.
fallow niche
I mean enemies don't have boons so its already obviously not in their ballpark
If they just made their spears physically longer to match the hitbox then I think it would be fine
half crater
I mean enemies don't have boons so its already obviously not in their ballpark
heat option for enemies with boons when
hearty elbow
(geez, imagine if Dad applied Punishing Sweep on his spins)
magic dagger
good thing the fool decided to give up varatha
fallow niche
@hearty elbow Don't remind me of Skullcrusher, its range is twice as large as the particle effect is has lol
half crater
i mean, his current spear yeets skulls so it wasnβt the worst trade
fallow niche
The skulls are actually casts
hearty elbow
Yeah it's a pretty sick ~~special ~~cast all things considered lol
half crater
cast does prolly make more sense now i think about it
magic dagger
it has nothing to do with the spear lol
he could forget Gigaros and still yeet all the skulls he wants
fallow niche
They lodge in you and they make you take more damage
And after some time they pop out of you and hover above the ground
hearty elbow
If only Lightning Rod worked like Dad skulls
fallow niche
Its the same exact mechanic as your cast with the mirror upgrade
Lmao yeah
Would actually be useful
static jacinth
Like a big screenwide aoe?
fallow niche
Yeah
hearty elbow
but destroys the bloodstone, yeah
fallow niche
Rod's AoE is small, ignoring the issue with accidentally picking them up
hearty elbow
100 screenwide damage is pretty far from broken lol
static jacinth
By destroying them you mean you'd get them back?
hearty elbow
Lol yeah
static jacinth
Would make it pretty good. Like a better Hermes Legendary.
magic dagger
do DC ticks count as damage, preventing fiery presence and assault boons from working correctly?
mighty ermine
in the sense that you mean, no, so fiery presence or adjacent effects still work right after getting rid of DC hearts
magic dagger
awesome, thanks
stable grotto
So when the final boss dashes in and does his 360 swing is it impossible to dodge?
between the arc and his movement i just don't have enough movement to get out even if i react super fast
magic dagger
@stable grotto you can definitely run for a moment before dashing to escape
also, if you time your dash right, you can i-frame through it no matter where you are
but it helps if you see it coming, so you can bait him into spinning while you're at the edge of his hitbox already
stable grotto
How do you bait the spin?
sad i lost as i had a super high attack build with the spear AND managed to get the triple stab mod
fallow niche
When he dashes forward at you he'll almost certainly try to spin
If you have two dashes and see it coming you can dash out without too much problem, though melee builds struggle a bit more
Athena dash can let you i-frame it much easier though and just dash in his face
Same with her call
stable grotto
oh yeah i totally had a run where i had no call options given to me
hearty elbow
Any call will let you iFrame the spin pretty easily as well
glossy fog
Low Tollerance and Splitting Headache is actually a super fun synergy to run
A bit slow to get going though, mostly a boss killer build
tropic shale
best build for the spear?
fallow niche
Depends
There are a lot of good spear builds, no definitive "best"
Highest ceiling is probably Achilles Spear cast build
Zeus Cast likely
tropic shale
im currently liking the hades spear
fallow niche
Its good, has a few builds that are good with it, generally Explosive Launcher seems to be what people are into right now I think
tropic shale
explosive launcher?
tropic shale
lol
ill look for it
in case you didnt know
youcan bug theseus
with companion shady
found it last run
fallow niche
You used to be able to do it with the Hydra too
Loved just trapping the main hydra head in darkness and stuff lol
steel hazel
I just finished a run with boons from every god. It took like 20 resets and the build was a complete mess aside from Poseidon's Aid + Proud Bearing (30%) + Rip Tide + Breaking Wave instagibbing every Styx small chamber, but it was pretty fun.
To do it, you need to enter the Tartarus midshop with boons from exactly 3 gods, find a 4th (non-Hermes) god in the shop, and make sure that the exit gives you a 5th god. You may need to roll the door before buying the boon. Then you just use keepsakes to force the other 3 gods.
fallow niche
That seems like it works!
Otherwise the game would force the first 4 gods on you for the whole run
glass rapids
what's a good build for rama?
i guess spamming special with zeus might work lol
but any attack builds?
fallow niche
There is only one I enjoy but I will never share it because its definitely a bug and I don't want them to remove it
fallow niche
@glass rapids This was FO1 but it should be faster with FO2
You have plenty of time to use the attack
sub-10 with rama is possible
glass rapids
but what build : (
turbid needle
Thunder Flourish Aspect of Zeus.
Heartbreak Strike and Drunken Dash with PS. Easy peasy.
glass rapids
PS?
turbid needle
Privileged Status, 40% extra damage to enemies that have at least two Curses on them when maxed on the Mirror.
glass rapids
ah ok
hearty elbow
@glass rapids Rama (and all non-Hera bows) really depends on hammers. If you want to go attack, you're looking for Explosive, Point Blank, Triple, Chain, and Twin, vaguely in that order. I prefer Deadly Strike since the crit works really well with Rama's 1.6x multiplier. You can choose to supplement with Heartbreak Flourish for Heart Rend, Hunter/Divine Dash.
The build I prefer is Relentless Volley + Dio special with an attack boon (Deadly Strike works here too, particularly with Arty/Dio duo). You spread Hangover to targets very easily with special then you can get attacks in while it ticks.
You can also do Relentless + Thunder Flourish. No matter what, Thunder Flourish will hit once against a single target, but Relentless makes your AoE very very good, and the single target is serviceable if you get a bunch of Zeus boons. That is the primary advantage Zeus has over Ares--it stacks up better with itself if you get more boons. Doom can only get so good.
hearty elbow
Shared Suffering debuff from the special
Re-applies 60% of damage from whatever gets gets hit by your attack to anything with the special debuff on them
So with 1 target, it acts as a 1.6x attack damage multiplier
hearty elbow
It works extra with multiple enemies. If you hit 2 enemies for 100 damage while both are affected by Shared Suffering, they both take 100 + 60 + 60 damage.
Heads up though if you do end up taking Explosive Shot. Obviously never go for Power Shots :P. I actually think the power shot issue is overstated for the normal attack, it's definitely possible even with FO2 to get them in, but it's super duper not worth it with Explosive
Unless you want to meme
stable grotto
I did it yall, i finally got my second win
i think i lucked into a good build but i dont know how exactly they synergized
stable grotto
Lets see
Phalanx Shot 3
Quick Spin
Hunter Dash 3
Triple Jab
Deadly Reversal
all for the spear
polar rivet
idk if thereβs a synergy spears just good
stable grotto
spears are SOOO good
i think what helped was the attack deflection allowed me to deal with bullets and my cast really made Theseus so much easier
moment a spear came i shot the spell out and was doing 700 on minotaur
finite igloo
What are people's favorite Guan Yu boons?
odd parrot
Hey what are good boons and upgrades for the sword
small stirrup
What are people's favorite Guan Yu boons?
@finite igloo Divine Strike is absolutely hilarious on GY. Pair it with heartbreak flourish and you have a solid build. Putting a status effect like Dio or Demeter on attack is also really good. But it you go for a spin build, Massive and quick spin are a must. A special build can run with charged shot and still be super good.
finite igloo
most of what I'd done was building around Dash Strike and spin yeah
small stirrup
Hey what are good boons and upgrades for the sword
@odd parrot I assume you mean Zag upgrades. Place Artemis on dash and focus on getting a lot of Hermes and Chaos boons for boosting dash damage.
finite igloo
Usually used Heartbreak strike, I think
finite igloo
was thinking just trying to get whatever could slap the most damage on it
static jacinth
Aphro on attack is usually the most damage.
small stirrup
But I guess its better than Artemis
static jacinth
Barring crit stuff.
finite igloo
yeah, that
small stirrup
Yeah I thought so
odd parrot
yeah you are corrected on zag upgrades
small stirrup
Oh well, speed and dash are your best friends
odd parrot
ok
finite igloo
haha, I did some goofy build with plume and Nemesis and Divine Strike, and had epic hermes attack speed
just goofy dicing
odd parrot
for blood upgrades should i upgrade the first one for the sword
finite igloo
wish I'd had demeter or zeus on the attack though, but it was really funny - had the Hammer upgrade taht lets you just hold attack down
I have never seen attack speed like that, was highly entertaining, but not great with the boons I had
small stirrup
All of the sword aspects are pretty good on their own
finite igloo
what do people like for Excalibur? I love the weapon
just curious what people have liked to build on it
odd parrot
ok I got the first one on it
small stirrup
But I like the 4th and Zag aspect the most on it
For aspect of TRUCK I just drop Aphro/Arty on the attack and divine dash
Whoever comes first
odd parrot
What a good hammer upgrade for the sword I would guess the one that dash attack 2 with plus 30% damage
odd parrot
Ty
hybrid galleon
Lol but so is literally every sword is great with Double Edge
Double Edge is just a good hammer
I still despise zag sword and use it just for memes
outer nimbus
Is there a good build for the heartseeker bow?
small stirrup
I assume Zag aspect?
It really depends on what hammer you have
Flurry shot is pretty fun with a status boon or crit on it
Heartbreak flourish and your pretty much set imo
Just get charge and relentless to make it even more effective
cunning urchin
I pretty much always go Heartbreak Strike + Hunter Dash, then aim for Zeus' Aid (for Smoldering Air) and any crit boon from Lady Artemis (for Heart Rend).
small stirrup
That's solid as well
cunning urchin
Depending on pacts, going for all three gods isn't necessarily viable. But at most heats, that's pretty fast and reliable.
weary gust
does poseidon aspect do anything for casts that dont get stuck in the enemy? (besides passive damage increase)
barren otter
nope, but passive damage increase is still a really good benefit for any cast run
unkempt pagoda
the ones that donβt get stuck are the ones who appreciate the damage increase the most
valid locust
Poseidon aspect with crush shot is hilarious.
Neec to try trippy shot with it.
glass rapids
artemis cast with mirage shot is also nice
since you can exit wounds and possibly arty legendary
valid locust
I had mirage shot with trippy shot once
hearty elbow
@valid locust Lol, or maybe a blank release
valid locust
6 grenades cracking people.
Hey, I'm taking one for the ylteam. The real evil of Elysium must be addressed.
cunning urchin
@valid locust that feedback made me chuckle lol, but no.
valid locust
Thats the second time you've disagreed with my feedback
cunning urchin
"Message for you, boss. It's from the Greatshields in Elysium."βHermes, probably
https://discordapp.com/channels/456889434672201729/520688402958516254/520688527412035584
valid locust
Gonna get charged flight removed from the game
cunning urchin
lol
cunning urchin
At some point, we're just gonna save our rerolls for Wells in Elysium to release all enemy types there.
Would help with TD2.
Minotaur Release.
half crater
lol yeah release for ALL elysium enemies
cunning urchin
"Asterius, no!"
"Farewell, king."
gleaming current
Become richer than hades, release all enemies and hire a bunch to help you defeat him
Sounds like a good new route to implement
cunning urchin
To defeat the Lord of the Underworld, you have to become the Lord of the Underworld.
dire pasture
Anyone else wish you could start with a hammer upgrade (and pick your keepsake routing based around it)?
Like it feels so underwhelming when you run a +Attack aspect and then get a good special hammer upgrade option.
dry ember
Something something rng part of roguelikes something something
static jacinth
I'm pretty sure you've got a very high chance to get a hammer upgrade in Tartarus anyway.
Maybe you could ask for an easy mode that lets you pick a starting hammer or something, for fun, more casual purposes.
But it's not too hard to just restart for a hammer first room if you really really want that.
glass rapids
Wow, i just discovered that holy shield activates along with vengeful mood
wonder if that's even intended
unkempt pagoda
it is, itβs a revenge boon
magic dagger
"deal damage when you take damage"
fervent canyon
Are legendary or duo boons more valuable on average, do you guys think? I know thereβs bad boons in both but I was just curious which you guys take more of the time, if you had to pick
fallow niche
They're generally more powerful than normal boons, Legendaries that is, Duos are all over the place
Some are ridiculous, some are okay, some are interesting but not good, and some are just straight bad
turbid needle
Looking at you, Lightning Rod.
hearty elbow
Fully Loaded is also terrible on most builds that will qualify to get it
small stirrup
I think all of Dio's Duos are great and always viable on most runs
hearty elbow
and his legendary is amazing
small stirrup
Absolutely
fallow niche
His Poseidon duo is pretty terrible unless you get it really early and his Athena duo is a waste of a boon tbh
It just does nothing
Otherwise yeah his other duos are good, if specific
hearty elbow
I like Calculated RIsk. It's basically free lol
fervent canyon
is poseidon duo the one where the cast goes super slow?
didn't seem great when I picked it lol
fallow niche
That's Athena's
hearty elbow
It makes a pretty big difference for Speeder projectiles, at least. It's more use than I've ever gotten from value Lightning Rod
small stirrup
The cast didn't go slow
fallow niche
Poseidon is the one that makes all future boons you see Epic rarity
So if you get it in Elysium or even Asphodel tbh its not very good
Just a waste of a boon pick
small stirrup
Wasn't it enemy projectiles that were super slowed down by calculated risk?
fervent canyon
the duo boon where the cast goes slow and freezes everything or something?
I thought that was poseidon
maybe I'm misremembering
fallow niche
Oh that's demeter + ares
small stirrup
That sounds like blizzard shot
fallow niche
Or poseidon + demeter
hearty elbow
that's poseidon + demeter
fervent canyon
yeah seemed kinda bad
hearty elbow
Wasn't it enemy projectiles that were super slowed down by calculated risk?
@small stirrup Yes.
fervent canyon
idk, maybe I used it wrong
fallow niche
Blizzard Shot does damage but its.... very slow
Not really usable outside of a fun run on low heat
small stirrup
Unbearably slow
fervent canyon
Ares+Artemis is really good
fallow niche
Obviously
fervent canyon
one of the better duos imo
small stirrup
Of course
fallow niche
Its been notorious for a very long time
small stirrup
Its best girl
fallow niche
Overhyped tbh but newer players really get wow'd by it
hearty elbow
Artemis has weirdly good duos. And Lightning Rod.
small stirrup
Will there ever be a day when we can unironically like Lightning Rod?
hearty elbow
It should cause all projectiles to have Seeker behavior targetting your grounded Bloodstones :3
fallow niche
Rod would be not terrible if it had lightning strike when it was moving in air when you throw your cast and not just as it sits there
fervent canyon
i guess it kind of synergizes with the 10% less damage/10% more when no bloodstone?
but overall yeah pretty bad
small stirrup
If it struck lightning when its stuck with enemies it probably be viable
fallow niche
I'd rather just lodge my bloodstone in the enemy and get 50% more damage lol