haha, braggart
#h1-builds-and-combat
pseudo stream
but yeah, if it increases the aoe size that's amazing
I don't think it says it does that?
hearty elbow
Dragon Rush Bonus Damage & Area
(+20% / +40% / +60% / +80% / +100%)
cunning urchin
I have Cast on LB, Special on X, and Attack on B when I play Beowulf. (Xbox One Pad)
And A for Dash.
If you have Charged Flight, you can release your charge by dashing. So, having the Special right next to Dash just works better. And X just works better for my primary attack than B, so I use B for Attack instead.
pseudo stream
oh. the & confused me
cunning urchin
I think changing your button layout for some weapons can help a whole lot.
hearty elbow
That's a great tip, thanks for that. I was having an issue with doing that consistently with GY Charged Skewer as well
cunning urchin
I use LB for reloading with Hestia, too, for example.
hearty elbow
I use LT for reloading and LB for summon
cunning urchin
That works.
I even thought about putting Attack on RT and Reload on X for Hestia lol.
Like every shooter out there.
hearty elbow
I've considered moving Talk/Gift to A since I have already accidentally killed NPC's in Dark Souls from trying to RB to interact lol
cunning urchin
lol
cunning urchin
It's actually x5 lol.
hearty elbow
Is wiki outdated or something? Says +300%
cunning urchin
Wiki is wrong, yeah.
dry ember
it's kinda the same reason why Hestia is good imo
hearty elbow
Neat
cunning urchin
You'll want to get Heartbreak Flourish on it for max damage.
dry ember
just big damage
cunning urchin
Deadly Flourish has the second best damage on it. That's also a good choice if you see that.
pseudo stream
I mean you still have to charge it
hearty elbow
That's like saying Dragon Rush is bad because you still have to charge it lol. It also takes way less than than bull rush
dry ember
true, but the damage is no joke (as long as you don't spend it to clear DC shields)
hearty elbow
You don't have to charge it the whole way. Every phase along the charge is still a lot more damage
cunning urchin
You don't have to. Only if you want max damage from it. But even an immediate release or short charge is very strong.
hearty elbow
Even if you release a couple of frames after you push the button down
hearty elbow
It doesn't say max
I assume it's the flash or whatever. For Charged Skewer on spear the range just stops increasing (that won't happen on Shield though), but there may be a flash too I'm just not remembering
pseudo stream
it's REALLY fast if it's just the little flash, and I totally understand
hearty elbow
There is no power shot
pseudo stream
I'd play around with it but I'm not good with this weapon and the time limit is scaring me 😛
hearty elbow
So you can release it any time after the flash too and it's fine
cunning urchin
If you just spam Special > Dash > repeat, you should be within the time limit no problem. Even if you never charge it.
hearty elbow
Assuming no damage control lol
cunning urchin
You can just dash through them when they start their animation and charge up for a ton of damage.
hearty elbow
Lol, also when you're super unfamiliar with a weapon perhaps consider not playing with Tight Deadline
cunning urchin
You say that, but I did 41 the first time I used Beowulf lol.
hearty elbow
Lol, but you've done the playstyle before, and you didn't really use Beowulf. You used Super Guan Yu with 40% extra effective health and 1.5x the damage
cunning urchin
The closest to Beowulf I really used before was Hestia, I guess.
I think playing with TD2 the first time you try an aspect is good to quickly get feedback on your DPS.
pseudo stream
yeah, I'm still a scrub 😛
hearty elbow
TD1 is fine for that, you just need any timer
TD2 is pushing it in Elysium for a lot of builds even if you do know what you're doing
cunning urchin
Good. Failing TD2 in Elysium is just more data for me. 
hearty elbow
Lol, it's defintely worth knowing if you finish Elysium in 8 minutes but a 4 stack Styx in 6.5. That way you know in the future to take Chaos/mid shops way more aggressively, but it may not be a DPS issue
pseudo stream
how many hours have you played though? :p
hearty elbow
That's rough to gauge. A huge chunk of my time recently is using saved seeds
Oh wow. Steam says 330. I guess since I virtually always leave it running at work and sometimes accidentally overnight it makes sense.
cunning urchin
If I fail TD2 in Elysium without JS, CP, or DC, that's basically always my own fault in my view.
pseudo stream
how do saved seeds influence that?
gleaming current
Steam counts any time hades.exe is active
hearty elbow
Oh, I thought it was track based off of saved files
cunning urchin
Except you spend a lot of time finding a seed rather than getting in any practice.
hearty elbow
Well, lol, there's definitely a couple of hours doing just that but it's not a significant chunk
cunning urchin
I have some afk hours, too.
hearty elbow
So with work stuff and AFK time probably 250 hours safely
cunning urchin
Probably still 440-ish for me, easily. Maybe 430–440.
hearty elbow
Does that depend on Erebus?
craggy scarab
ok thx
cunning urchin
So the guaranteed shops/free chambers are in 13 > 23 > 35.
And then the final shop in the Temple of Styx, of course.
hearty elbow
My question I guess is that if you get Erebus in Tartarus does it make the boss rooms 15, 25 and 37
I really wish the chamber number is always visible lol
I do it by "feel" now but it took a long time to get there.
cunning urchin
Erebus counts like a normal chamber. Not sure how it counts if you take an Infernal Gate or Chaos Gate right before the boss shop, though.
The boss chambers are always in the same chamber # for me, though. So I think it doesn't increase the chamber count if you take one before the boss shop?
hearty elbow
Yeah I think you're right, which is why I was confused lol
mighty ermine
huh, if it doesn't now then it used to add extra chambers if taken before the boss shop. there used to be some fun stemming from that with the "highest chamber reached" record shown in the practice room
cunning urchin
I think it used to but doesn't now. But I could be wrong.
mighty ermine
right, i haven't checked myself in a while
hearty elbow
It's very infrequent nowadays I press Select so my sample size is incredibly small
and virtually never inside of boss rooms
cunning urchin
One day.
main osprey
1 day
cunning urchin
Right about when Lernie head slams finally get nerfed.
pseudo stream
is it valid feedback that TD + all 5 tunnels necessary is dumb?
I mean... it definitely is
gleaming current
static jacinth
Unlucky life.
spark lotus
Is Artemis a good start for a Nemesis build? My current impression of her crit bonuses that they're practically useless
dry ember
Assuming you know how to Dash Strike spam:
Deadly Strike and Hunter Dash do the most amount of damage
Otherwise Heartbreak Strike is also really good if you can't find Deadly Strike
Nyaa did some number crunching and it comes out that way
So Artemis is a good start, yes.
spark lotus
Thank you, gonna try
cunning urchin
Heartbreak Strike always wins, really. But Deadly Strike is very close behind.
random hull
Sigh. I was cruising through the challenge until I accidently bought the anvil instead of the superpom next to it.
The problem wasn't the new hammers but getting tilted and thrown out of rhythm. Ate a few buzzsaws and now have to go into the last fight with 60 health.
dry ember
@cunning urchin Deadly Strike starts outscaling Heartbreak Strike at 100% attack bonus no? Or at least that's what I remember from the spreadsheet.
hearty elbow
HA! Beat an Erebus room with Nemesis (small victories)
spark lotus
@dry ember About dash-strike spam - is there some advanced technique or is it just dash click dash click?
hearty elbow
you can do it simultaneously
serene phoenix
Weaving attacks is good too
hearty elbow
The "advanced tech" is that you can only dash strike as much as you have dashes available. If you attempt to dash strike without a dash you will start your normal attack animation, which is terrible
cunning urchin
@dry ember Heartbreak Strike scales way better with poms, though.
serene phoenix
If you weave attacks you can thrust when your dash is down and then restart the cycle
cunning urchin
And you'll want Divine Dash normally, so Hunter Dash isn't typically a factor.
serene phoenix
How's Aspect of Arthur on high heat
dry ember
fair enough. I was thinking in more of the min/maxing sense. You can scale with both Hunter Dash and Deadly Strike
hearty elbow
@serene phoenix Define high heat
dry ember
Deadly Strike also open up options like Heart Rend (Weak on Special)
cunning urchin
Divine Strike + Hunter Dash or Divine Dash + either Heartbreak Strike or Deadly Strike.
serene phoenix
30+
hearty elbow
It's fine at that point
cunning urchin
Or Divine Strike + Divine Dash.
hearty elbow
It gets a bit iffy though if you go too much higher than that. The damage mitigation matters a lot less when you have LC4 HL5 and Stubborn Defiance.
serene phoenix
Yeah I'd think the big swings are better than the special "buff"
hearty elbow
At that point, like with every other weapon, the best defense is not getting hit in the first place... and Arthur is not good at that
It was designed to trade
serene phoenix
Yeah I find myself using Arthur for the big swing attacks though
Not for the special
It goes off even slower than regular anyway
hearty elbow
You're sleeping on 40% damage mitigation and slow if you have Greater Consecration
It's good, really good
Turns off traps and slows Chariots and Flame Wheels too
"Slows" is a weird term. For whatever reason they basically just stop moving
dry ember
if you input both dash and strike at the same time, you can spam Deadly Strike very quickly, as fast as you can dash
cunning urchin
And Exalted Shades.
hearty elbow
And the higher heat you go, the more you will rely on Dash Strike -> Attack 1
Because it's your fastest burst option
serene phoenix
The big arthur cleave is so satisfying lol
hearty elbow
(This should be in the high heat discord)
serene phoenix
Yeah when I play nem I usually go something like dash strike > attack 1 > attack 2 > dash strike > thrust
turbid needle
It's better damage to never standing attack with Nemesis unless you have World Splitter or Flurry Slash.
hearty elbow
@turbid needle I agree
turbid needle
20-25 is poor damage when your Dash-Strike is 30.
hearty elbow
You never want to be in the vulnerable standing attack animation. It's like Arthur if you were larping with a foam Excalibur
Piercing Wave doesn't proc on dash strikes, right?
turbid needle
I'm not sure.
But it only scales with universal damage ups and doesn't carry boon effects.
hearty elbow
Oh I know but it's between that and Super Nova, Cruel Thrust on Nemesis so... you know, options
turbid needle
Well, Cruel Thrust is also bad.
cunning urchin
Super Nova is nice to have.
turbid needle
You're using your Nova at minimum every three seconds with Nemesis, Super Nova is good.
It's not Double Nova, but the extra range is nice.
hearty elbow
Yeah, I'll take that. So much Snap Nova hate, but playing Nemesis with and without it is like night and day
turbid needle
I like Snap Nova.
hearty elbow
Especially since I prefer to go DIvine Stirke + Heartbreak Flourish + Hunter Dash, the base 70 on Snap Nova is far form nothing too
If I had to guess, I'd probably prefer Divine Dash over Strike, but I'm playing around with stuff to see what I like still
cunning urchin
Divine Dash can deflect EM Asterius's axe slams very easily to negate the shockwave. It's very hard to do with Divine Strike, though.
hearty elbow
I still have get past Raid Boss Lernie :3
I'm so bad at this aspect, my salt is palpable
cunning urchin
Lernie the real final boss for melee.
If you want an easy ride after Lernie with melee, just don't take EM3.
hearty elbow
That's true for literally every build lol
cunning urchin
I dunno. Doesn't make much of a difference with Hestia lol.
turbid needle
I might say that Hestia is easier on EM3 because you don't have to worry about Theseus's shield as much as you normally do.
hearty elbow
Maybe Hestia is faster on EM3, but easier is a weird concept considering that normal Thesius+Asterius have virtually no mechanics. Though I guess if your bottleneck is speed (and it is for everyone in Elysium lol) then it makes sense
turbid plume
i am using the gloves (default) is dash + Y the "same" as just Y (an uppercut) so do bonus to special apply to both?
main osprey
bonuses to your special will apply to your dash-special, yeah
turbid plume
thx!
main osprey
o7
hearty elbow
fffffffffffnnnnoooo, stupid stupid fish tone in Chaos happening after you pick the boon
run over
main osprey
you mean after you pick your exit door?
hearty elbow
Lol basically
magic dagger
First run in a month, so I go for an easy, simple, Chaos Aspect 32 heat. I got ended by chariots bonking for 38 damage like three times per second. 😢
hearty elbow
Sigh, I found a Hammer exception, which means there are even less constants than I thought, and everything is garbage :(
Double Edge gives 30% damage, and hits twice. If this was a multiplicative bonus, dash strike with 28% Deadly Strike (no crit), no family favorites/ps would be:
30 * 1.28 * 1.3 * 2 = 99.84
I hit for 94 however, which can be derived from:
30 * (1 + 0.28 + 0.3) * 2 = 94.8
turbid needle
Correct.
hearty elbow
Sad face
modest steppe
Is there any boon that applies multiple times with Aspect of Rama's Special? I tried to get Zeus Special boon on it, thinking that the lightning would apply to every hit on the special, but it doesn't ):
gleaming current
So double edge is additive, after all
(tbf double hit is still nothing to shrug off)
mighty ermine
yeah, the main draw is hitting twice anyways
hearty elbow
Lol, definitely not, it's still great, but it means it's extremely hard to specifically gauge Hammers now without literally trying them and mathing out damage.
"Now" meaning for me, specifically, since I just learned this now
gleaming current
Well, so far the rule of thumb for me was "if it doesn't change base value it's additive increase"
hearty elbow
The Charged hammers are all multiplicative
charred pilot
How come charm isn't triggering the curse % bonus damage when 2 or more are applied?
main osprey
Because Charm isn't a separate status curse, I'd guess
charred pilot
But it specfically says status curse.
main osprey
That Charm is a Status Curse? Or Weak?
charred pilot
Charm
hearty elbow
It's not listed on the wiki as a status curse
Not saying you're wrong, but if it does say status curse you could make a feedback thing or f10 it
charred pilot
I'll make a feedback thing as it states it within the game Status Curse, maybe it's duration is so short with the gauge low that it isn't recognised.
charred pilot
Yeah that's what I'm doing Doom and weak build
and then I got charm and I thought oh nice an extra curse and then it dosen't proc
main osprey
That sounds like something to f10, actually. Not feedback
If it says it's a status curse and it's not being recognized as such, that's a bug
main osprey
o7
solemn pumice
What is EM theseus’s attack pattern? Sometimes he’ll shoot you, sometimes he’ll run around and throw bombs, sometimes he’ll stand there and gloat?
hearty elbow
Gloating is pretty core to his game plan
solemn pumice
It’s just confusing because sometimes it seems like he wants to run you over and sometimes he’s throwing confetti
hearty elbow
He will go around in a circle throwing bombs, or he will charge directly through the middle with projectiles. He can reposition himself before doing either of these things
but the key thing to note is that he does one or the other in those 2 zones.
serene phoenix
On the same note, how do you predict Charon's oars?
hearty elbow
How is that the same note lol. I haven't done the fight that much, I'm terrible at it. I also can't read when he's going to do the pink wave thing to save my life
serene phoenix
on the same note as Theseus' unpredictability lol
solemn pumice
Use Arthur’s special so everything slows down and the projective waves will get gaps 
hearty elbow
Theseus is extremely predictable though. If he's in the outer ring, bombs. If he's in the center, bullets
serene phoenix
though I think Theseus just moves fast and that makes him seem more unpredictable than he really is
hearty elbow
It's just that you have a big angry bull making things annoying to watch him
serene phoenix
lol
hearty elbow
If anything, Asterius is actually random. Not sure if there's a cap to the number of times he can ground slam to ground slam, but I know I've counted 3 pretty regularly
serene phoenix
he should just go wild like False Knight from Hollow Knight lol
hearty elbow
lol
hearty elbow
He honestly feels more like The Invincible, Fearless, SEnsual, Mysterious, Enchanting, Vigorous, Diligent, Overwhelming, Gorgeous, Passionate, Terrifying, Beautiful, Powerful, Grey Prince Zote
serene phoenix
I'm sure that's a Hollow Knight reference but I'm still playing through it so
hearty elbow
It's a meme fight that's also absurdly difficult.
serene phoenix
pretty accurate description of EM3
hearty elbow
It's the little things in that fight, like Asterius' jank charge angles that remind me of Zote
gilded knoll
Turning on a dime is his ultimate skill
pseudo stream
Zote is pretty rough, I never did radiant him
I don't think he's as bad as absrad, but sitll
untold vortex
hollow knight talk is more suited to #video-games if it is to continue ^_^
pseudo stream
spear aspects. which are... good? I have achilles at 1 and maxed Guan Yu, but I find Guan Yu a bit... painful haha
also, for Guan Yu, do you tend to go for max health MORE cuz you need it, or LESS cuz it's less relevant?
(excellent example of the income and substitution effects, for anyone learning microeconomics 😉
unkempt pagoda
i like hades
built in spin support, works with both special and attack builds
spin go brr
dire wedge
also, for Guan Yu, do you tend to go for max health MORE cuz you need it, or LESS cuz it's less relevant?
I tend to prioritize max health whenever I run GY. Aphro's Life Affirmation is especially good with it
pseudo stream
cool, I kinda do too
it never goes super great
playing without a time limit helped a lot though
... yeah without the timer I actually feel like I'm getting a grip on this weapon haha (also Quick Spin is rad)
does Beowulf's cast explosion get bigger when you level it up?
main osprey
don't think so
pseudo stream
hmm.. I can't tell if I wanna stick TB in it. I only have 29 atm, so that's two maxed out weapons
turbid needle
You get its Special and Charged Flight at level 1.
main osprey
I like Chaos
small stirrup
Chaos is still super viable
main osprey
both the aspect and in general
pseudo stream
it looks cool haha
I still need to battle out with Beowulf for the prophecy at some point, hmm
small stirrup
6 shields to throw is super good
pseudo stream
seems like a lot of aoe
small stirrup
Just smack some zeus or aphro on the special and watch it slam
small stirrup
Just making sure guys, each shield does a lightning strike for it self?
Or is it only the initial?
frank tide
dionysus is kinda fun on chaos shield cause you throw it once and whoops max stacks on everything you can go back to hiding in a corner now
main osprey
think each one, might have the internal cooldown per enemy?
turbid needle
They each can deal a lightning strike, but only once ever .3 seconds.
main osprey
haven't run Zeus special on chaos in a while
turbid needle
So if you shotgun them, they won't.
small stirrup
Ahh
turbid needle
But if you throw from farther away and they hit sequentially they will all proc.
small stirrup
I see
pseudo stream
for the fists, is Demeter particularly good or fun? planning my TB haha
unkempt pagoda
fists can consistently get max chill stacks
small stirrup
Tis is
cunning urchin
Once every 200 ms.
turbid needle
Demeter is probably best Malphon Aspect right now.
unkempt pagoda
wait, you meant aspect
pseudo stream
yeah sorry for unclear
pseudo stream
and it does multiple hits so armour doesn't shut it down?
cunning urchin
I still think Zagreus Aspect is probably the best.
unkempt pagoda
yes
cunning urchin
But it's hard to say at this point in time.
unkempt pagoda
it can hit through dc as well
pseudo stream
Zagreus is super good, but I do like trying other stuff out
small stirrup
Yis im aware :3
cunning urchin
The dodge chance is really good.
small stirrup
I swear
cunning urchin
By the end of a run, it's typically around +50 effective HP.
small stirrup
I wish the percentages for dodge were additive though =/
pseudo stream
no, cuz that means they get stronger the more you have
unkempt pagoda
it'd be quite easy to get to 100%
cunning urchin
I mean, they might be additive. I was told it's multiplicative, but I've never seen the evidence for that. I haven't seen where dodge is calculated in the game files, either.
small stirrup
It'd make more sense if they were multiplicative though
Additive would obviously be broken
cunning urchin
They could have a hard cap to prevent 100% Dodge Chance.
small stirrup
At what? 75%?
cunning urchin
¯_(ツ)_/¯
cunning urchin
They don't mind "broken" necessarily.
small stirrup
Yeah Chaos shield is still a thing
cunning urchin
This is from Amir from an #ask-supergiant:
Sometimes you should want to take a Rare over an Epic. In a unique circumstance, you should be offered a Duo and not choose it. Some enemies should be a nightmare with certain weapons and some might occasionally be a breeze. We want 'high dynamic range' across many runs. And when the run comes together, it might feel like you've 'broken' the game -- but you're a god in this one and that's what we're going for!
pseudo stream
either way, the dodge chance being... "hit-chance-multiplicative" is the best way to keep dodge chance balanced across each instance
it's the obvious way to make the math work out
main osprey
also Nyaanyaa, wish me luck >.< trying out controller
small stirrup
Totally
main osprey
something like that >:3
magic dagger
trying out controller
but... aim tho?
small stirrup
Could be using melee?
turbid needle
The game is recommended by SGG to be played with a controller.
void fjord
@small stirrup dont we have class
small stirrup
Lmao shush
main osprey
wait...this isn't dual stick 👀
magic dagger
exactly.
main osprey
like, I understand you've got several abilities...but there're ways to do that with dual
I'm gonna give it a try
cunning urchin
I thought you only play Chaos Aspect. Since when do you need to aim that?
main osprey
just finished getting 6x16
:3
magic dagger
you'll occasionally just fire in the opposite direction you're trying to aim, or wherever you're going, if you don't hold the stick the right way long enough
cunning urchin
We don't count sub-40.
main osprey
Mmhmm, which channel are we in again?
.0
I'm actually not sure I'm gonna go with shield for this
small stirrup
Just do anything bruv
cunning urchin
Just use aim assist, and then complain in #hades-feedback about aim assist aiming at all the Doomstone shards instead of Doomstone. Easy.
main osprey
xD
cunning urchin
Or my personal favorite, trying to throw your shield at literally anything that has Speeder.
void fjord
which is a better special for fists, artemis or aphrodite
pseudo stream
how does Dashing Flight work? I don't get it
small stirrup
which is a better special for fists, artemis or aphrosite
Aphro maybe?
Dashing flight was the one which gives the damage boost with the dash throw right?
pseudo stream
yeah
dry ember
depends on you build I think
pseudo stream
I'm on Beowulf atm and I can't see when it works
cunning urchin
Heartbreak Flourish scales better with poms. The sheet "mean Special % w/ crit" shows you the average damage at different rarities and levels with crit chance factored in. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1P6oZ6i8zmY6s7PM_AkX_g6bjZ601iP_xi9CxzEpujJ4/edit?usp=sharing
small stirrup
Or at least the last time I checked
frank tide
I like artemis special for fist cause it turns the witches coven into spam q
void fjord
hmm thanks guys, was planniing on finally doing a 32 heat run so yea
cunning urchin
There are more factors than just damage from the Special boon itself, anyway.
Like what t2 boons or Duo Boons you unlock by taking the boon.
pseudo stream
I don't know if it works with Beowulf? I have crits so it's hard to tell, but dashing then throwing doesn't seem to do any extra damage...?
frank tide
arty dash is pretty good for most stuff
pseudo stream
nah it seems to work, just a bit odd
is... Lucifer fun? on a controller? seems weeeeeird
main osprey
huh
I just managed to sneak a chaos bane into styx xD
I got it pretty close before the champions fight
pseudo stream
oh I did the same
no cast on champ with Beowulf was scary
but ended up being fine
pseudo stream
haha, just constant blasts of call?
main osprey
yup
small stirrup
@random hull In relation to your latest feedback, wouldn't be counter-intuitive to keep the items more spaced out if you are under time restraints? 
cunning urchin
I don't even know how people buy the wrong item to be honest. Never happened to me in 440+ hours.
random hull
I'd rather walk a step or two more than have to check the prompt at the bottom of the screen to make sure I'll buy the right thing. Or worse, forget to to do so.
small stirrup
I get why you want to make it more spaced, but I just didn't understand the reason of time restraints being a factor
random hull
I meant that less in a Tight Deadline context and more in a "I am hasty and fail to properly concentrate on a crucial detail" context.
cunning urchin
Well.
random hull
It's entirely preventable with the necessary attention (and accuracy of movement).
cunning urchin
Don't be hasty. 
random hull
But I see that as a QoL issue.
Yes, it was entirely my own fault that I rammed my challenge attempt into the ground unsharpened.
small stirrup
Oof
pseudo stream
Is the Lucifer aspect any good/fun? With controller
small stirrup
unkempt pagoda
have you put zeus on it yet
void fjord
lucy is pretty good with a zeus build
imagine lucy with seeking fire
not possible i know
but just imagine
small stirrup
The possibilities
pseudo stream
Yeah... idk it seems weird and TB is expensive haha
cunning urchin
Just don't have any money to buy things. Easy.
You'll never buy the Anvil accidentally when you can't afford it.
random hull
This advice is as useful as a wet handshake.
random hull
Living by the "just don't have any money", eh?
random hull
That's suprisingly dark coming from you.
small stirrup
Ahhhh Gallows humor
static jacinth
What is everyone's favorite cast to go with Aspect of Beowolf?
small stirrup
I'd have to take Beowulf first
Crush shot seems like it'd be pretty good on Beowulf
ember locust
You don't like deflect in general?
cunning urchin
No, the cast on Beowulf lol.
static jacinth
I was really confused for a bit.
But amazingly, casts get renamed with Beowolf.
That's neat.
void fjord
well it just changes into (cast name) flare tbf
narrow rampart
I've yet to try Demeter, Zeus and Area casts on Beowulf
Actually gonna go do that rn
unkempt pagoda
zeus is very boring on beowulf, unfortunately
hearty elbow
Does High Voltage work on Electric Flare?
gleaming current
Supposedly not. There are two types of lightning that are chosen for different effects: chain-lightning and lightning bolts
High Voltage only should work for bolts
hearty elbow
I assumed Electric Flare would not be chain lightning, since it visually is not
But I dislike Beowulf too much to test it lol. Twill always be a mystery
gleaming current
"burst of chain-lightning that bounces between foes."
So ig it is a chain lightning
dire wedge
Beowulf with Ares is just like BIG SAW GO BRRRRR
Works with Freezing Vortex, not sure about Hunting Blades
gleaming current
wanted to link screenshot of wiki handling lightning effects nicely but alas, no perms 
Well, text version would be
Chain-lightning - T1 Electric Shot or Lightning Strike - T2 Storm Lightning
Lightning Bolt - T1 Thunder Dash, Thunder Flourish, or Zeus' Aid - T2 High Voltage
Although I guess Heaven's Vengeance and Lightning Reflexes also go under "bolt" category
cunning urchin
Hunting Blades is not offered if you use Beowulf Aspect.
dire wedge
Ah, there you go 
gleaming current
Well, yeah, it was a rename that didn't reach wiki just yet
It is pretty clear from animation it's chaining
hearty elbow
i just used Flare, it definitely isn't chaining, though the animation does look different than the normal bolt aoe. i'll put on Fated Authority and test in a couple of minutes
gleaming current
Wait a second
What is electric flare if currently the cast is called electric shot? Is it because of beowulf?
hearty elbow
All Beowulf casts become AoE and are called X Flare
cunning urchin
Nice.
random hull
That confused the hell out of me at the start too.
hearty elbow
I'm still testing it, your point is partially valid. Flare says neither bolt nor chain lightning
Lol, I'm still not close to maxing just Fated Authority 
FA sucks :\
JUST GIMME ZEUS GAH
random hull
The desire sensor strikes again.
hearty elbow
... of course the literal first time I've ever looked for High Voltage I get Billowing Strength, Double Strike, and Static Discharge
random hull
Double Strike would be interesting, simply to see if it works as intended.
hearty elbow
switched to Fated Authority, had to reroll my mirror
pseudo stream
I have stubborn defiance but Chaos gave me an extra DD, the things go right to left?
hearty elbow
I have never gotten Chaos' DD, not sure
small stirrup
Yeah
It goes right ot left
The Skelly DD is always at the left
Chaos would always be on the right
pseudo stream
chaos is currently on the left, cuz stubborn defiance sucks
small stirrup
wait chaos gave a DD or SD?
hearty elbow
if after this attempt FA doesn't give me a single Zeus door I'm just switching back to FP lol
pseudo stream
DD
gleaming current
Okay, I legit cannot get high voltage for an hour already, lol
Electric Flare is going to remain a mystery for a while
hearty elbow
In normal runs High Voltage may as well be a T1 core boon
gleaming current
Tbh zeus T2 boons become exponentially more common the less you intend to go full zeus
Double Strike High Voltage with Lightning Dash? Sure!
static jacinth
You know, if you can't get high voltage, it might be because electric flare doesn't qualify for it.
Might need a different bolt boon.
gleaming current
I tried adding bolt boons as there is no voltage anyway when zeus appears
Ended up with call, dash and special, no voltage still
pseudo stream
new advice: don't forget you have +400% damage from traps, as the last boss will punish you HARD
gleaming current
Judging by the boon progression image flare doesn't qualify for either effect
So it might be its own thing
But obviously doubling already huge radius is tempting
hearty elbow
i got charged flight this run, so phew don't have to use that garbage cast anymore
no boon, just charged flight = level 2 3x zeus dragon rush
balanced
gleaming current
Hmm yes balance
hearty elbow
It's only common high voltage, but it does increase the radius significantly
Comparisons in sec
cunning urchin
Electric Flare only opens a path to Static Discharge.
unkempt pagoda
how underwhelming!
cunning urchin
It can also open a path to his Duo Boons—excluding Cold Fusion (which requires Static Discharge) and Lightning Phalanx.
static jacinth
How could it open the path to Lightning Phalanx?
Without Phalanx?
Phalanx Shot seems important for that one.
hearty elbow
unkempt pagoda
it's excluded
static jacinth
Oh, I misread that.
So does High Voltage work there? That seems like a pretty big circle.
hearty elbow
Yeah pretty evidently does work
static jacinth
That actually seems really good.
cunning urchin
Lord Zeus photoshopped that.
hearty elbow
HIgh Voltage scales stupid well with rarity lol, I could see that being WAY bigger with poms too
oh wait, no it doesn't, nvm
why is this boon so bad
60/72/84/96
static jacinth
It scales really well with poms though.
cunning urchin
That's good.
static jacinth
Poms give you like 20/30% more if I remember right.
Diminishing returns ofc, but still.
hearty elbow
And for the record, also, this is was done a lot less scientifically, but it does appear that HIgh Voltage increases Area by 60% and not radius. 60% area should be around 25% more radius (i did the monster math etc.), which is pretty consistent with the picture
themoreyouknow.jpg
Also I don't know if you need a bolt boon to qualify for High Voltage. I had dash to be safe
tl;dr Use Charged Flight
cunning urchin
You need one of Thunder Flourish, Thunder Dash, or Zeus' Aid to get High Voltage, yes.
Electric Flare only opens a path to Static Discharge.
cunning urchin
Yeah, I agree. I was surprised to see that it works because it doesn't unlock High Voltage.
unkempt pagoda
could be a bug, or an oversight
cunning urchin
Oversight is still a bug.
static jacinth
I guess that's what Feedback is for.
hearty elbow
I'll make less meme versions of the pictures for feedbacking later I guess
Nvm, @cunning urchin beat me to it
Thanks 😛
cunning urchin
I'll take any chance to get indirect Beowulf buffs.
keen zealot
I had the most amazing run last night
Two lengdary boons
From Athena and poseiden
Plus a duo, I forgot the name, thst makes every boon at least epic rarity
pseudo stream
Exclusive access doesn’t level up your old boons, right?
... I spelled that right, my phone doesn’t like me
unkempt pagoda
nope
gleaming current
Ye, it only affects what you pick up after
pseudo stream
Okay thought not. I’ve only seen it so late that it didn’t matter
So for the bottom three mirror things, what do people generally like? I hear the rerolling boons is better than rerolling rooms, but what about the other two?
random hull
No, it does indeed not level up any boons, old or new.
Shame.
As for the mirror stuff, go for the rarity talents unless you really need a Duo for your build to work properly.
Fated Authority and Fated Persuasion are a preference type question.
main osprey
( @pseudo stream you might want to edit that post to correct it)
( and @random hull )
random hull
I was referencing him, but yeah. Done.
hearty elbow
I really don't think it's a matter of preference anymore. Like, sure, obviously you can have a preference, but as soon as any combination of RI1, UC, APx are applied, or if you have a build that requires a particular boon to start with, Persuasion kind of just becomes objectively better. Authority is probably comparable for runs where you kind of just go with the flow and do whatever, but Persuasion is still good in those runs too.
There's also the astronomical cost of maxing Authority. Obviously you don't have to max it to see benefit, but you also get the vast majority of utility out of Persuasion after 3 ranks (to get 9-ish shots at a boon in the beginning), and that's super easy to get to, Darkness-cost-wise
This is not even considering rerolling Chaos, Wells, Pools of Purging, or Poms (useful in approximately that order)
static jacinth
Hey, I want to float an idea by people. Since I've heard that a lot of people really don't enjoy Anvil. What if Anvil let you choose which hammer boon got smith'd into two other things? Do you think that would be a good change?
earnest ravine
My issue with it is hammers are potentially able to completely alter your playstyle or make some of your boons worthless, and having that potentially happen so late makes it really risky.
static jacinth
Oh, absolutely. It's still a risk. I wanted to keep the concept of a risky trade there.
But with a bit less nuisance.
hearty elbow
I kind of like Anvil the way it is now. I don't think it's good, but it creates narratives. With CF2 it's about as useful as the 900 gold Hermes boon there.
I have had it save runs at least twice where nothing else could. I can't ever say that about the Hermes boon. I mean, sure, extra dashes is good but unless you have 1 dash it's not a game breaking thing
unkempt pagoda
the issue with anvil is the complete lack of control
letting players choose which hammer to give up would go a long way towards making anvil useful
static jacinth
I think it would still create wacky situations and narratives. But you'd be more inclined to try it out if it could sort of 'purge' a hammer you don't like.
hearty elbow
Shrug, I agree with you for the most part. I appreciate anvils though, because I don't think I would have given Explosive Shot a fair shake on Rama if I wasn't forced to use it from an anvil. And it's definitely up there now for favorite hammers. Same with Cursed Slash on Excalibur lol (though to a less extreme--it's better than I thought, I'll give it that)
void fjord
i think it giving random upgrades is fine
just let us choose which one to choose
cause ill have seeking fire one time and next i have spread shot + higher dmg special
unkempt pagoda
if i could reliably purge a useless hammer, i'd love anvil
there'd still be a fun amount of randomness involved
hearty elbow
Yeah I guess letting you choose a hammer to purge still opens you up to getting Cursed Slash on Nemesis, or Delta Chamber on Zag lol
unkempt pagoda
hm speaking of which
i wonder how the game picks out the random hammers
i assume it chooses one first, then picks out a random available one so you can't get mutually exclusive hammers
hearty elbow
Yeah, almost certainly
static jacinth
I'll drop it in feedback then. See what might happen.
hearty elbow
There goes my dream of losing Relentless Volley in Styx and getting Explosive + Triple + Point Blank Shot (this would obviously still be possible lol but if I had the choice I wouldn't let go of Relentless)
static jacinth
Trust in RNG to make your dreams come true 😄
And I mean, you can still do it right now if you really want to risk it.
hearty elbow
I have :3. A lot of super high heat runs with Rama end with me taking Anvil praying that I get an attack combo. Still haven't gotten the nut but waiting patiently
main osprey
@nimble dove you'll get rewards for the lowest heat you haven't already completed
nimble dove
main osprey
o7
turbid plume
what are some other good combos for the caster bow besides Dion?
i guess posidon does also good dmg?
static jacinth
Crush Shot is good too.
void fjord
how many titan bloood do u need to max out all weapons?
athena is also pretty good
just deflect all ur shots
static jacinth
290 blood.
cunning urchin
1st aspect is 5 Titan Blood, 2nd and 4th aspects are 15 each, 3rd aspect is 16.
void fjord
a lot of them yea
cunning urchin
+15 once the final aspect is out.
static jacinth
Yup.
cunning urchin
Aspect of Nyaanyaa.
void fjord
so complete total is 306
static jacinth
51 for each weapon except fists.
turbid plume
how does tripple shot / dual shot work with caster bow?
turbid needle
Cast stays on the center arrow, and it only fires once with Twin Shot.
gusty elm
https://i.imgur.com/iXnhai4.jpeg
uhh, why is there a countdown underneath my athena keepsake?
ohh, is it how many guaranteed boons of her i have left?
hearty elbow
Yes
gusty elm
can't believe i never noticed that before
turbid plume
what are the "meta" boons around chaos shield?
turbid needle
Hangover, Lightning, Doom.
pseudo stream
quick! what's your favourite bow aspect? :p
turbid needle
Zag.
gleaming current
Beo shield
pseudo stream
trying to decide if I want to max rama or not
gleaming current
(seriously tho, probably chiron despite all the flaws)
gleaming current
They interact nicely, but rather underwhelming for how they sound together, due to bow itself being initially weak
Definitely one way to make it viable tho
pseudo stream
so not Rama, then? 😢
gleaming current
I mean
Rama is hot. Go Rama if you want
Probably has the most potential of all bows
pseudo stream
oh? why do you say that?
gleaming current
Because, well, 1.6x multiplier on attack with mark, attack itself is pretty beefy, triple shot makes it into shotgun, and special is quick
I personally don't play it only because generic bow bias 
turbid plume
how much life are you aiming for in your builds?
gleaming current
For me the number ends up around 300 usually
main osprey
I rarely aim for a specific health, mostly just grab hearts when I'm feeling like it xD
turbid plume
i am for the first time around 300hp and it helps so so much.
gleaming current
Do you have the "max health for darkness" upgrade? It helps immensely over the run
Especially if you have 3 bosses' bounties already obtained; that's free 15 max health by the time you reach styx
turbid plume
yeah i have it all the time but this run i also picked up some boon that increased all +max hp increases
gleaming current
Life affirmation from Aphrodite, probably
pseudo stream
for chaos aspect, which hammers are good or bad?
unkempt pagoda
most of the special hammers only affect the main special
unkempt pagoda
i usually just go sudden rush to get my specials out faster
explosive return isn't awful on it either, it's a free 50 damage
dashing flight, maybe, and ferocious guard is pretty nice when you can get it off
main osprey
It's, well, chaotic :P
pseudo stream
yeah... but does it do anything? it feels largely hidden, whereas hitting 60% harder with normal attacks is rad (Zag aspect)
main osprey
It doesn't do much until you level it up
turbid plume
any advice on boons for the (default) spear? last weapon to beat the game on heat 0 and get the 10 blood from fate
pseudo stream
do heat 1!
main osprey
High damage on special
pseudo stream
I find the spear basically does whatever and works, except the boons that need to hit fast
main osprey
Aphrodite, Demeter, Poseidon is also good
serene phoenix
best companions?
gleaming current
Any companion is best, as annoying as it sounds
pseudo stream
ooh Swan do you have any random clips of chaos shield? I wanna see what it looks like when it works
gleaming current
Just gotta pick one that covers your weaknesses the most
Meg is very good starter for fights like heroes for example
Skelly distracts hydra real well, can also be summoned at final boss
serene phoenix
I tend to have the most trouble on the final boss
main osprey
Uhh, not on hand, sorry. Lemme check my videos
gray moon
Best companion has to be Sisyphus (unless you have Lasting Consequences on at rank 2 or higher, hten maybe Skelly)
pseudo stream
Sisyphus is definitely amazing, though I'm annoyed I can't use it NOT in fights, gotta use it for healing
pseudo stream
watching it now, thanks 😄
main osprey
Sure!
pseudo stream
I switched back to Zag haha
Chaos is cool but it feels unclear that’s actually going on. I like having more control
gleaming current
It's not called chaos for nothing, heh
worn sand
does anyone know the the variance for the Sisyphus rewards?
like gold tends to be somewhere around ~110 or so for example
Also, when trying to force eurydice upgrades on specific boons, what determines which one gets chosen?
sometimes it's different, most times it's the same ones
is it time spent before talking?
gleaming current
Darkness from sisyphus should be always 30
Never took healing , and gold is 100-120?
Euridyce is probably the same as generic routing differences
worn sand
what does that mean?
unkempt pagoda
game uses a seed, you'd need to change the rng before taking eurydice to get something different
people usually do this by knocking down pillars and casting
pseudo stream
for shield, what are good special upgrades? I normally aim for doom or so
green ember
Depends on the Aspect. Zeus is great on Zeus, go figure.
unkempt pagoda
zeus is great on chaos too
you want a damage modifier god on beowulf (preferably aphro or artemis)
pseudo stream
what about Zag? I ended up taking Demeter, which made for easy Privilege
pseudo stream
is Arthur worth levelling?
pseudo stream
yeah, I'm not sure the damage aura is worth another 12 blood
what would you say is priority? if anything?
unkempt pagoda
zag sword (for quest reasons)
cunning urchin
Whatever you like most.
unkempt pagoda
priority is whatever you want
pseudo stream
hah, yeah, I mean it's hard to check what I like most without maxing stuff. currently have Zag sword, Guan Yu, Zag shield, Rama, and Zag fists maxed
... huh. I guess I like zag stuff
static jacinth
Priority is entirely based on what you like.
unkempt pagoda
then you'll like zag bow
cunning urchin
Well, they also only take 5 Titan Blood to max out lol. So that helps.
unkempt pagoda
you can also just reset your game if you don't like your investment
static jacinth
Look at the stats, see if what each level gives is worth it for you.
unkempt pagoda
as long as you don't go back inside the house
pseudo stream
yeah, I did that with chaos shield
some things are really subtle and take some experience to figure out how useful they are
like Arthur 😛
unkempt pagoda
beowulf and hera really only need to be unlocked to be useful
pseudo stream
yeah, I've messed with them a bit... Beowulf 5 seems suuuper convenient though
if I liked zag shield less I might do that
unkempt pagoda
chiron, chaos, and demeter need a few levels to be worthwhile
static jacinth
Hestia needs levels a fair bit.
pseudo stream
I probed this channel's brain and made a spreadsheet 😛
static jacinth
Worth it though.
cunning urchin
You just need a few quick clears to max out any weapon.
unkempt pagoda
don't forget to watch for prophecies and broker deals
static jacinth
A run has an average of 2.5 titan's bloods in it. 3.5 if you trade out the ambrodia.
pseudo stream
oh I haven't been, bought 1 TB with broker stuff and have slightly less than a page of prophecies left
err... assuming you can save 1500g without it risking the run
which I rarely do, needing to redo the whole thing isn't worth the 50% chance of seeing a TB in the end
static jacinth
So that means you need 4 runs to max out a weapon you've unlocked, so long as you buy one titan's blood, and trade out all the diamonds and ambrosia you get.
cunning urchin
I think I bought the Titan Blood in the Temple of Styx like 2 times maybe lol.
static jacinth
I buy it all the time 😄
pseudo stream
yeah, I've done it twice as well I think... once with the membership card 😛
it also makes the individual run less FUN, as getting tons of boons is the best par 😛
worn sand
i find saving up 1500g before fighting hades is rather consistent, i think i do it around 90% of my runs
unkempt pagoda
i use my money in the shops so i only ever buy styx blood if i'm grinding for it
worn sand
with the 15% existing money per zone mirror perk
static jacinth
I just don't visit charon much during the run, and interest gives it to me by the end.
Though I've found that I'm getting to buy it much less now that I'm pushing 20 heat on all weapons. I need to use that money earlier more often.
worn sand
and just going for money rooms once or twice in early zones, then ignoring 1-2 shops
static jacinth
But still.
worn sand
and you easily hit it
pseudo stream
I always avoid Charon when I can, unless I wanna go punch him
worn sand
i'm just doing ~12-15 heat runs tho, no convenience fee or anything
static jacinth
I probably could buy it more, but I'm forcing myself to play with FO 2, to get accustomed to the speed.
pseudo stream
oh god FO is rough
cunning urchin
Anyway, even if it's like 4 hours or something, that's pretty fast. If there's an aspect I wanna try out, I'll just do some fast runs to get the Titan Blood for it and max it out. Maybe I'll use the aspect itself to farm the Titan Blood for it just to get experience with it. Depends on the aspect, though.
pseudo stream
only did it once for the prophecy, got hit by a bunch of crap I rarely do
4 hours is like 10% of my total playtime, that's not... fast, that's a HUGE amount of time to unlock something
I don't really plan to hit 400 hours 😛
static jacinth
I wouldn't stress out about unlocking stuff unless you really want it.
pseudo stream
so as long as I don't pick any bad weapons, I should be okay
static jacinth
Cap what seems fun to you.
unkempt pagoda
there's more than enough blood to cap everything out, there's not really a rush
static jacinth
I did the math once, you don't technically get enough blood to cap things out just from bounties and prophecies, but it's close enough that broker trades easily make up the difference.
cunning urchin
Maxed-out Beowulf and Hestia are very fun for me. And they're both very strong.
pseudo stream
Hestia is the manual reload one?
unkempt pagoda
i wonder what the hell moders without their heat 0 bounties feel rn
cunning urchin
Yeah.
pseudo stream
that one I didn't like much at level 2, but an extra 150 damage seems like it would be rad. trying to decide between that and Lucifer, I haven't maxed a rail yet
static jacinth
Lucy doesn't really need maxing, honestly.
unkempt pagoda
the real power for most on lucy is the attack anyways
static jacinth
The special isn't the main thing there.
unkempt pagoda
(i end up using the special more but to each their own 😛 )
static jacinth
Like, it's worth maxing out eventually. The special is important early in the run.
cunning urchin
I didn't like Lucifer very much, personally. Hestia is so much less of a hassle to use. You have way more mobility.
pseudo stream
I love spamming special on the general rail
static jacinth
But it's hard to build around the special in the long run.
Unlike normal rail special, which is much easier to get a solid build around.
pseudo stream
okay, so for my spreadsheet about aspects, it might be nice to add good hammers for them (and maybe even good boons, but that's much more work)
static jacinth
Especially when it's a rocket.
unkempt pagoda
triple bomb go brrr
pseudo stream
if anyone has any particular aspect/hammer combos they think are worth listing, lemme know
cunning urchin
Attack build with Lucifer really isn't too different from Zag Rail.
pseudo stream
yeah, that's fair... near. I do find 250 damage stuff always makes me happy 😛
cunning urchin
Attack build on Hestia plays very different, though.
unkempt pagoda
run the numbers on hazard bomb lucy
pseudo stream
a lot more reloading? rarely hold attack at all?
oh, 50-100, that's a lot less exciting
static jacinth
Huh... One sec.
cunning urchin
Yes, but also a lot more mobility. You don't need to stand still to attack because you only need to take single shots.
cunning urchin
Hestia is arguably the best aspect in the game for boss fights.
static jacinth
Lucy does 370 with a full chamber of bullets and the max ramp up. Zag rail does 240 with a full clip, ignoring all other modifiers. Neither feels significantly faster.
And Hestia just does 150 with one shot, so it's the best, but we'll move on from that.
pseudo stream
max ramp up? Lucy does more damage the longer you hold the button?
static jacinth
The longer you're hitting the same target.
cunning urchin
other than small armoured enemies
You can still empty your full clip on smaller enemies like that with Hestia.
static jacinth
Overall... I feel like Zag rail might be more worth it?
turbid needle
Zag Rail is only really worth using over Eris or Hestia if you get Spread Fire.
static jacinth
More worth it than Lucy.
turbid needle
Lucifer is super powerful.
static jacinth
Eh. I'm not super sure honestly.
Zag rail does 130 less damage on a full clip, if you focus fire everything, but has a slightly longer range, more flexibility, and fires about as fast.
I guess the Lucy hammer boons are pretty good.
turbid needle
And Lucifer applies effects even faster.
static jacinth
But hmmm...
turbid needle
They had to cap lightning and Support Fire proc rates because it was so powerful.
static jacinth
They appear to attack equally fast. Though I'm not testing that super scientifically.
Just eyeballing it.
If you want to apply lots of effects, Zag rail has it about as fast, faster with the Lucy spool up time.
And has a hammer that makes it much much faster.
And Zag rail can get really good hammers like Rocket Bomb, if you want the special life.
I think Hestia is still better, and maybe Eris, depending on playstyle.
But Zag feels like it does beat Lucy.
random hull
Lucy has automatic ramping, but I am loathe to admit that I can't tap its full potential.
turbid plume
any advice on where to pump my blood into? just got master of arms done
cunning urchin
What weapons do you like?
turbid plume
i kinda like all of them but would rather be a meta slave as i have a hard time even on very low heat
cunning urchin
1st aspects require 5 Titan Blood to max out, 2nd and 4th require 15 each, and the 3rd aspects require 16 Titan Blood.
Zagreus Aspect of Malphon and Coronacht are very good for only 5 Titan Blood each.
Nemesis or Excalibur for Stygius.
Shield aspects are all very good. Can't actually go wrong with any of them at max level, but you might not like all of their playstyles.
They all play very different.
The spears can all be pretty good, too. But Guan Yu will really want to be maxed out before you take it because the HP penalty at lower levels hurts a lot.
Exagryph is somewhat similar, but I personally prefer Hestia a lot over the other aspects. It's arguably the best aspect for boss fights.
turbid plume
thx!
rare kayak
excalibur honestly functions fine at level 1, at least up to 18~ heat
strong aspect
chaos shield aspect might be worth maxing though if you wanna be a meta slave
ionic kettle
when a pact increases a foes damage, hp, etc does that include the bosses?
rare kayak
candidate for strongest aspect in game
spring turret
yeah every enemy gets affected by those pacts
ionic kettle
ouch
spring turret
thats why its better to avoid Calisthenics cuz it prolongs bossfights
spring turret
meg in particular
they buffed her speed last patch on base so with FO she becomes really fast
rare kayak
tisi + alecto backup is messy sometimes if you cant burst tresholds fast enough
thresholds
? hell if i know how to spell it
spring turret
I think they nerfed the speed on the tisiphone circle explosions but yeah alecto can be unpredictable at times
spring turret
Yeah i agree spinning saws can be troubling especially with melee builds
ionic kettle
yeah, sometimes the furies get really messy, i struggle more vs them than the others often :/
rare kayak
for me hydra is usually my make or break point
ionic kettle
just dont feel i have the same control/handle on the fight as the others
spring turret
rng on hydra can be irrelevant or really annoying on melee builds
like the head banging hydra makes melee so much more annoying
but the spawner one doesnt really do much in my opinion
cunning urchin
Summoner Lernie can be really bad for melee if there are a lot of white heads, though. That can quickly spiral out of control.
Worst Fury fight for me in this version is EM Megaera.
Speeding up the EM Furies made her so much harder.
spring turret
I meant the central hydra but overall I still find summoner to be on the lighter side of difficulty since the spawning attack leaves them open to be attacked.
cunning urchin
Yes, I mean when the main head is Summoner and you get like 3–4 white head spawns, that can get out of control because the head slams prevent you from effectively dealing with the spawn eggs.
DC2 can also make it a lot harder. But overall it's on the easier side for sure.
spring turret
Deflect trivializes it a lot though since you can delete the eggs before they get to spawn and kill the heads quickly. I like seeing them because then I dont have to deal with the head smasher.
cunning urchin
Yeah, for sure.
I think White Lernie and the one that shoots the homing projectiles are the most difficult versions.
gray moon
does anyone know if the Dash-Upper of Fists is affected by the "Dash-Strike deals more damage" bonus?
nvm, Wiki says that it is
cunning urchin
Yeah, it's affected by Hunter Dash and the Lunge boon from Master Chaos. It's not affected by hammer upgrades that affect Dash-Strikes.
gray moon
i had a really weird interaction with fists, where the Dash upper was causing double Hangover damage, when using Explosive Upper upgrade
learning so much about the fists
needless to say, double Hangover damage results in stupid amounts of total damage
green plover
This week's challenge is going to take me some time, in fact idk if I can do it this time.
random hull
I've given up after my last attempt angered me to tears. Best ease off when playing no longer is fun, is what I tell myself.
earnest ravine
YOu're right, though. If it's not fun anymore, what's the point?
cunning urchin
Check the pinned messages. Tiank, Firespirit, and Tatz come up with them.
Used to be that HeartfulPeach came up with the challenges, and they were called Peachy Weekly Challenges. Well, before that, we'd just challenge each other to interesting runs like that.
random hull
I think I'll try my hand on some of the older challenges I missed in June, without any bigger purpose.
turbid plume
does taking a boon for attack deminish the chance of being offered such boon from antoher god?
serene phoenix
You ever get a Chaos boon hitting you for your primary damage method
And just say screw it
Good thing it can't kill you lol
cunning urchin
Attack, Special, Cast, and Dash are given priority when the game selects what boons to offer you. But that doesn't apply for exchanges.
green plover
Chaos curse can't kill you?
cunning urchin
Yeah, curses can't kill you.
green plover
Chaos voice: Interesting.
cunning urchin
One exchange every other run isn't a lot.
serene phoenix
And yeah it just reduces you to 1HP
And stops there
So you can brute force it need be
Better than dying to TD
gleaming current
Well, that's why it's hot take
totally not because it will make high heat runs even higher heat
dire wedge
Know what could be another nice challenge? Take and run with bad setups/builds
Like attack-focused poseidon aspect
Or no cast hera
not sure it'd be fun for many though haha
hearty elbow
Do elites double dip on CP as well?
random hull
RI1 while you're at it
hearty elbow
@dire wedge lol, in the high heat discord, @steady hatch and I concluded the same thing: At highest heat, you have to play Chiron like a horrible Zag aspect.
So Chiron's challenge would be... you have to use Chiron's special
womp womp
gleaming current
sterile imp
Haha Hera's bow with Dyonisus' cast go brrrr
lament perch
I finally picked up that run and it went SO WELL right up until the end
I had to go through all 5 Styx tunnels but I still made it through ||about half of fb's second health bar||
...and then I died, again
hearty elbow
Progress though, right? 5 stack Styx is tough for everyone
inner ivy
How do you guys deal with extreme measures lernie?
The bullet hell spam always seems to get me
terse smelt
I always try to pack something with reflect
also don't forget even regular attacks destroy bullets
cunning urchin
First thing to know is the heads have 500 armor and 500 HP.
That can help you understand how many hits you need to kill one.
Second is learn to recognize the different variants and what they do.
Then you'll know which ones give you the most trouble when you're close and which ones give you the most trouble when you keep your distance.
That will probably vary depending on what aspect you're using.
cunning urchin
Yeah.
terse smelt
Good to know
hearty elbow
What happens with CP1? Does it become 500/575, 575/575, or 661/575 (the last one assumes that health is calculated first, and the 15% bonus is double dipped into armor)
cunning urchin
575/575.
inner ivy
Jeez
I try to kill the heads as fast as I can, but I still manage to take a lot of trash damage from lava and the other spam
tawny mica
that's kind of why i always try to grab deflect dash at some point during a run
even if its at it's basic level you can spam it to not only avoid the damage but even deal some back yourself
it might not be like the UBER ideal but it's saved my butt more times than not
if not dealing with them defensively, you need to go to a full KO as fast as you can
its not enough to deal damage to them you gotta straight up obliterate them if you can, abilities that can destroy armor help out a lot imo in that regard
at least to open em up to more hurt anyways
really your priority in that situation is to give yourself breathing room otherwise they will just rush you
cunning urchin
I try to kill the heads as fast as I can, but I still manage to take a lot of trash damage from lava and the other spam
@inner ivy you probably take so much damage because you try to kill them as fast as you can. Even with Tight Deadline at 2, Asphodel is so short that you normally have at least around 3 minutes for the whole fight.
tawny mica
well you can't take out the main head unless you do right?
main osprey
yeah, but you don't need to rush it
tawny mica
alot of them deal some serious projectile spreads it's easy for that fight to turn into a bullet hell imo
cunning urchin
I often just chill on the boat at the exit waiting for heads to go through their attack animation and stuff, for example. Or I look for where there's not much going on and move there to get a look at what's going on.
You do for the most part want to be moving, but that doesn't mean you need to be dashing or attacking all the time.
tawny mica
eh admittedly my method is more brute force and fast paced i guess, i play alot of stuff like DMC, RUINER, Hotline Miami
plus i'd say it would help if you did have like a dash attack buff no? there's quite a few good buffs that give that on a dash
cunning urchin
That depends on the aspect etc.
The only boons that give Dash-Strike damage specifically are Hunter Dash and Lunge boons from Master Chaos.
main osprey
also some hammers
cunning urchin
Deliberate attacks, dashes, and movement are how to clear that fight on even the highest heat. If you ever find yourself pressing buttons because you don't know what to do, what you really should do is not press buttons and look at what's going on: what places are crowded, what heads are remaining, where are they, which heads are recovering from an attack, etc.
inner ivy
Interesting
I thought killing it as fast as possible was the best strat. I'll give this a try
I mean, I doubt I'm ever gonna pay on high heat like you guys but I guess the knowledge still holds up in the lower levels
cunning urchin
There's a difference between being fast and being hasty.
hearty elbow
There are some shortcuts as well. If you put Skelly on the docks in EM2, only 1 or 0 of the heads can reach him, and you can freely kill each head (be careful of White lernie heads and the original, they can still get you)
cunning urchin
Problem with Skelly in that fight is if he's pushed onto the magma, he's dead in an instant.
I actually try to avoid summoning him until Elysium if I can.
Unless it's for an Erebus chamber.
main osprey
does anyone know if it's possible to find Pools of Purging in Tartarus? (other than the one after the boss)
cunning urchin
Yeah, it's possible.
You probably just don't notice them because usually you have nothing you want to sacrifice there.
So they might as well be background lol.
main osprey
hmm, okay
worn sand
is the default exagryph more useful for anything in particular?
to me it feels kinda like a worse version of all the others
perhaps that's the point
main osprey
@cunning urchin just got to Redacted with Guan Yu, 16 heat, no boons, got partway into second phase for I died :D
static jacinth
I think it's better than Lucy.
pseudo stream
do you normally use Skelly, Nyaanyaa? I find myself using Sisyphus and then totally forgetting about him... all the time
main osprey
bleh, I can keep making it all the way to Redacted with no boons, can't quite make it past him
Nyaanyaa (or anyone else), does Explosive Upper (exploding dash-special) seem to have a lot of ending lag? (using Talos)
pseudo stream
... Rama is SO FUN
hearty elbow
❤️
pseudo stream
any particular hammers to look out for? I got +4 shots with special + Demeter special and it's glorious
hearty elbow
Relentless Volley is the best utility hammer. For pure damage you want some combination of Explosive, Triple, Point Blank, Chain Shot
Relentless Volley + Dionysus is insane, and most likely the best way in the game to spread Hangover
Don't get Twin Shot. It's a trap. The hammer is just grossly unusable
pseudo stream
I learned that I was definitely terrible with it while doing the prophecy
isi t bad with ALL bows? seems it
pseudo stream
oh really? I'm super terrible with it
that's good to know haha
why so much worse? cuz already slow charging?
hearty elbow
First thing's first, you don't need to power shot with Rama, particularly once you get an attack hammer
Just charge it as much as you feel is safe
But the problem with Twin Shot is that it compounds with the issue that bows in general have, which is that the power shot time is tied to the growth rate of the range, 1 to 1. As Rama's charge time is extremely long, and Twin Shot shortens the max range, it takes FOREVER to get any meaningful range whatsoever
static jacinth
Bows really need either a better payoff for power shot or just faster shooting in general.
hearty elbow
You would think Explosive Shot would have the same issue, but its AoE explosion even at minimum range is quite good, so you get a surprisingly long shot out of non-charged hits
And even slightly charging it scales the damage extremely well with Sharanga
Bows really need either a better payoff for power shot or just faster shooting in general.
@static jacinth I don't know if that's true. I think Bows could just afford to have some of their power be transferred from their broken hammers to the base weapon. That way it's less tragic if you don't get a good hammer with the Bow.