wut it do
#h1-builds-and-combat
cunning urchin
No.
Lets you charge your Special for up to +300% damage.
Which is multiplicative.
hearty elbow
what
hearty elbow
No, its special is the same as the other shield specials, it just does more base damage
cunning urchin
45 base damage Special.
cosmic jacinth
wouldnt the main dmg be from the cast load thingy
hearty elbow
it has nothing to do with the cast loading mechanic, that's done by using the cast button
cosmic jacinth
i mean like when using the charge stack bull rush
cunning urchin
Add Charged Flight + Heartbreak Flourish, and you'll kill everything in 1-2 throws.
hearty elbow
That's a completely separate build. The Charged Flight build uses only special, and maybe the shield defensively
cosmic jacinth
early game?
hearty elbow
All game
cosmic jacinth
huh
hearty elbow
Minus bosses obviously
cosmic jacinth
but that is like a few hundo dmg aint it
unkempt pagoda
45 +300% is a lot of damage
cosmic jacinth
ik that is over 100
unkempt pagoda
combined with heartbreak flourish, you basically win the game
hearty elbow
It's 4x multiplier to your base damage, so it's calculated separately from boon damage, which is what makes it hit so hard
unkempt pagoda
also charged flight reduces the base charge time for your special, for some reason lol
cosmic jacinth
so if we add heart break which if rare or epic is 130%+ if i remember it is 80-90 which is around 400 dmg
hearty elbow
lol does it really? That's funny
cunning urchin
You can do 480+ damage in Tartarus easily, after that you get more poms and boons to deal more damage, so . . .
unkempt pagoda
if you just quick press the special button, it flies out faster than regular beowulf special lmao
hearty elbow
that seems like an oversight lol
cosmic jacinth
rly that is a bit unfair
how u are suppose to be slower but u are faster and more dmg XD
hearty elbow
Considering that 3/4 shield aspects have build defining specials? Yeah it's a bit odd
cosmic jacinth
huh is zag included
cunning urchin
Anyway.
cosmic jacinth
is it bad i hate zag shield special
cunning urchin
Getting Charged Flight is just a good amount of luck.
A more reliable build will focus on Attack and Cast.
hearty elbow
I was referring to zeus, chaos, beo
cunning urchin
You want to use Infernal Soul with Beowulf always.
hearty elbow
It's highly dependent on if you get Charged Flight, which is far from guaranteed
cosmic jacinth
but i mean which has higher dmg late game
hearty elbow
Burst? The cast build. Sustained, and safe damage wise, Special
unkempt pagoda
unless you get dread flight in elysium
hearty elbow
Extra bounces
hearty elbow
No, broken
unkempt pagoda
if you have charged flight, it's even more broke
hearty elbow
Charged > Dread for bosses, they're pretty roughly equal for normal encounters
cosmic jacinth
so always take charged
unkempt pagoda
ideally both, but i'd take charged first
cosmic jacinth
except if u are fighting hydra right and dread is ur hammer
cause bad luck out of tarta
hearty elbow
Just a heads up, Beowulf has a wee bit of a learning curve because its base animations are quite slow and you take 10% extra damage with it on
cunning urchin
I'd take the Eternal Rose into Tartarus.
cosmic jacinth
wait beowolfs special is basicly a normal shield with charged flight
but without the buff
and holding down
hearty elbow
I'm not following
cosmic jacinth
since u said the special of beowolf with the charged flight is faster
unkempt pagoda
it's faster if you quick press, but you don't get the full +300% that way
hearty elbow
I haven't personally used it, but if it's like the other charged hammers, even at minimum charge it should be considerably more than base
cosmic jacinth
sooo do u go for quick or hold
hearty elbow
Depends on how long you're open and what you're trying to hit and how much health it has, if it has armor, etc.
cosmic jacinth
on bosses
hearty elbow
If you can hold the charge and not get hit, do that, else don't
cunning urchin
Immediate release is like +10% roughly with "Charged" hammer upgrades.
cosmic jacinth
okay so hold for half a second
cunning urchin
Just, like, try it lol.
cunning urchin
Well, you can when you get it.
cosmic jacinth
for my dia to buy ambrosia for me to buy titan
hearty elbow
Honestly... for your experience level it may behoove you to learn the games' mechanics using Chaos aspect so you can also farm titan blood that way
cosmic jacinth
is it bad i am using diamonds on titan blood
even if i have nothing to spend em on except for songs and decoure
hearty elbow
You need like... 30ish? Somewhere in that neighborhood, I'm sure someone has numbers on it for the unlocks and quests
The relevant unlocks*
cosmic jacinth
i got all of the unlocks from getting the house contractore thingy
hearty elbow
You want like 16 ambrosia to befriend 1 NPC and get and max a companion, most likely Bouldy (from Sisyphus)
cosmic jacinth
like the lvl on pick of ambrosia
hearty elbow
Have you already done all of the quests? I think 2 or 3 require 5 diamonds
And you can't see them until you get to that point in the dialogue
cosmic jacinth
huh
quests no not even close
i havnt gotten the emplore the house contractore to fix the lounge
nuu i died barely
had no hp\
broken nexus
Any tips for the lucifer gun - finding it so slow am getting wrecked. Not sure what playstyle I'm aiming for
solemn pumice
Upgrade it before using
A fun build I’ve used before is Lucifer + Poseidon attack + infinite ammo hammer. Then you can just spray everyone away like a water hose. It doesn’t work on projectiles and it really doesn’t work on bosses.
broken nexus
How do you use it though to build damange. I feel to kill things I need to be standing still and wailing on someone. If I dash I can't build enough damage?
That build sounds fun though
main osprey
You can dash while holding down the attack button
It won't interrupt the buildup, I don't think
broken nexus
Ok will try that thanks
agile charm
Any tips for Hades himself? I can't touch this guy
Best case I have a dummy OP build and get dunked on by the jar traps
Mostly I get overwhelmed by his add spam in P1
gray moon
Depends on weapon. With fists, I just get up close and punch, while periodically dashing behind him, in particular when he winds up the Spin-to-win attack. If you have the Call ability, be sure to use after a phase transition, to maximize damage.
If you manage to reach Hades with an OP build, don't kill him too fast - practice dodging his moves to get a feel for them
static jacinth
If you have deflect, deflect his skulls back at him.
After he attacks with his big sweeping move, you have a fairly big window to go in and safetly attack.
He hits hard, if you don't have a lot of safety, take your time, there's no rush.
clever matrix
sometimes I break the jars on purpose bc I'm pretty sure they damage him
it's also just better to clear the area of jars so you don't accidentally get caught, use your cast or some sort of range attack
solemn pumice
The big spin attack is tricky to dodge. I usually dash away too early and the edge of the attack catches me.
hearty elbow
You could always create a save in the fountain room in Styx (the only place you can do it, I think), so you can practice against Hades and learn his animations. I don't think this is super necessary in the beginning, since getting better at game mechanics by just playing should accomplish the same goal, but it gets worthwhile the more heat you add later.
cunning urchin
You can do that directly in the boss chamber.
hearty elbow
Oh, as in when you walk in (out?)
cunning urchin
Just as you walk in or any time during the fight.
No idea if after the fight works. Probably creates a new temp save at that point?
hearty elbow
Huh, TIL. That saves 30 or so seconds per attempt. Thanks for the tip
dry ember
do you save your profile or do you save you profile temp?
also does it work with give up?
hearty elbow
I have no idea, i literally just copy the entire Hades folder
dry ember
or do you repaste your save everytime?
hearty elbow
Repaste. It's a pain, but you know, less painful than doing an entire run to get back to the same point
cunning urchin
You back up Profile1_Temp.sav, then you overwrite your Profile2.sav or whichever with that temp.sav.
dry ember
so rename Profile1_Temp.sav to Profile2.sav
cunning urchin
After that, you can just Give Up at any point during the fight or after to do it again.
Well, you'll need to have a second profile already. Works with any profile number. Just, you probably don't want to overwrite your main save.
dry ember
wait so you do rename the save right?
hearty elbow
Especially since we're in early release it's probably a good idea to have a separate backup of that anyway
cunning urchin
Yes, you rename the save.
hearty elbow
So I assume you have to repeat this process every x number of attempts, where x is the number of profiles you've rewritten?
dry ember
that's what I thought should work. I'm only asking because someone from the modding Discord told me not to ¯_(ツ)_/¯
cunning urchin
Basically, you replace any perm save with your temp save for the boss fight.
cunning urchin
Then when you give up, you can just load your save again right away and do the boss fight all over.
dry ember
you only need to paste and rename once
cunning urchin
Correct.
hearty elbow
I'm missing something, why does that work?
dry ember
here is what I gathered?
cunning urchin
Because your permanent save is only overwritten in the House of Hades. "Give Up" sets it so that next time you load the save, it loads your perm save. That's why you end up at the House of Hades again in the courtyard.
Normally.
I don't really know if we're supposed to go into detail about manipulating things like this here . . . I'll get into trouble because of you two. 
dry ember
Profile1.sav stores your meta progression.
Profle1_temp.sav stores your run progress.
(The above are confirmed by some Hades modder, below is my theory):
If you use give up, the game simply being you back to Profile1.sav, which does not contain your run progress (hence you start right before the run).
If you rename the Profile1_temp.sav to Profile1.sav, then you hit give up, the game doesn't have your normal start point right before the run, all it has is the run progress, so you are sent back to the bossfight, instead of the courtyard.
hearty elbow
I mean, they could have obfuscated this stuff pretty trivially
So they clearly don't care that much about it getting out
That makes sense. Okay, great. I've been grinding against Hades using Rama attack at 49 (it is... agonizing), and you've probably saved me collectively hours of filler time between attempts.
dry ember
I am waiting for 1.0
and then I'll make a seed library
for all your seeding purposes.
hearty elbow
The implications of that for community hosted races/challenges is pretty exciting
spring turret
Also a big timesaver
dry ember
we already have community race 😄 next Friday! come watch
hearty elbow
Well, for practicing purposes at least. It would be kind of boring to see all the record heat runs coming from the same seed
Wasn't aware of that. On twitch?
dry ember
yeah, link in #self-promotion
cunning urchin
It would be kind of boring to see all the record heat runs
They won't because I make a new seed for every record, and I only use my own seeds.
dry ember
yeah. who would even want your 40 titan bloods save 
hearty elbow
I mean, seeds ostensibly only matter for a couple of rooms anyway unless you also route. It wouldn't really diminish the value of a record heat to use them.
spring turret
routings frankly alot more work than its worth, usually the most you would spend would be 3 rooms after that it just becomes too much rng to be aware of. Overall though having seeds just removes unnecessary time wasted grinding.
hearty elbow
Yeah, I agree, though there is something to be said for grinding to get the run to appear in your own main profile, but there's no real dodging that
dry ember
I like to keep my profile clean 😄
spring turret
I guess but having like a million failed attempts just to get that one trick pony run isnt all that satisfying
hearty elbow
Yeah it sucks, agreed
dry ember
6x32 is more satisfying to look at than a random 40+ heat run in the middle
that's why I use other people's save for high heat attempt
hearty elbow
Especially since all my records for boons are poop now since they're tainted with the failed attempts in room 1
Gee whiz this guy loves Crush Shot
spring turret
who?
hearty elbow
Lol, me apparently
Just checking my records
I had aphro keepsake on while grinding for hammers for 49 run
spring turret
I used like shady for a million runs before antos came over so my record is diluted with a million shadies
same actually before i devoted everything to athena
hearty elbow
Athena has no bad tier 1 boons though so it's not a travesty
Divine Flourish being probably the least applicable?
spring turret
athena just negates so many pacts on high heat
sure footing counters HS, deflect counters alot of the ranged BP2 effects, the DD replenish boons helps mitigate LC4 when combined with SD
Also just good duo boons
hearty elbow
I wish I had the clairvoyance necessary to deflect Speeder Greatshield waves
hearty elbow
At least you see them coming. Can't do anything about it but you know what's going to happen
spring turret
Specially in melee runs where you basically have to hope that they end their charge eventually so u can get hits in
cunning urchin
You should move this to #h1-high-heat-strategies.
unreal owl
does Aspect of Hera work with Stygian Soul? 🤔
unreal owl
what about the Ammo Drop Time? same for the Exit Wounds boon from Artemis
feels like Stygian Soul is not working with those
cunning urchin
Exit Wounds works just fine with Stygian Soul. The bloodstones still dislodge after awhile.
They just poof~ into thin air, basically, but the enemies will take damage.
random hull
Lightning Rod on the other hand will not be available.
In fact I would recommend Stygian Soul for Hera for better positioning, and the chance to get Bad News.
static jacinth
Much less burst though.
And getting the other legendary from Hermes is equally great.
You get three casts doing full damage instead of one cast that does 150%.
random hull
Unfortunately, getting a Hermes legendary has become harder with the introduction of the anvil.
Hermes will show up a lot less in the Temple shop.
Hera with Greater Recall is a match made in heaven, but having to run after your bloodstones before you get that (and in case you don't get it) - I deem that too dangerous.
static jacinth
Honestly, that would be a better perk for Hera than lower drop time for bloodstones.
I just feel like Hera with Stygian soul is so much lower DPS.
random hull
A perk like increasing the pickup radius could work well, and could be scaled over five levels well. Again, no synergy with Stygian Soul, but it would ensure smoother gameplay. And to accelerate bloodstone drop, there's still Quick Reload from Hermes.
Guess I'll make that into a feedback post.
floral apex
Is it just me, or does the anvil feel really underwhelming?
It feels less good than just a straight up hammer, and its pricier
static jacinth
It can be better sometimes.
RNG can be fun.
If you're at the end of the run and don't have good hammers, it can be fine to just grab it.
floral apex
I feel like if it was a lot cheaper I'd feel more charitable to it
like the pom slice is pretty nifty
cunning urchin
I think the main issue with the anvil is that if you need it, you probably didn't make it that far.
gleaming current
(and if you did make it that far, then anvil likely will ruin things)
unreal owl
are the Aspects of Zangreus worth it? or just beginner traps?
cunning urchin
They're pretty good. Except Stygius, but it's not like you won't be able to clear with it.
craggy scarab
can you get the same boons from chaos twice?
cunning urchin
Yes.
craggy scarab
k thx
grizzled oyster
I had the stronger dash chaos boon twice and the tripple dash attack with the spear in the same run once. That was really fun^^
main osprey
Ooh, nice
hearty elbow
Stygian Hera used to be way more appealing when you could get to 3+ casts regularly, but yeah, tried it recently with Trippy Flare and it is agonizingly slow. I found myself taking Bow attack hammers and boons to compensate, and that point I may as well be playing Zag aspect.
unreal owl
is there a "really bad" Aspect around? or are they all fairly balanced?
given the limitation of Titan Blood, it's nice to look out for traps
random hull
One thing to watch out for: Some weapons only are good with a higher investment, while others are already good at level 1 and only improve slightly with further upgrades.
static jacinth
Very true, yeah!
Aspect of Chiron? Quite good. Aspect of Chiron at level 1? No, please.
random hull
Examples: Guan Yu for the former (the health penalty at level 1 is crippling), Hera for the latter.
pseudo stream
has anyone written all that info out? Titan's Blood is SO rare in the early game
Hera is clearly great at 1
random hull
Don't know if its already been done, so let me group the non-Zag aspects then.
pseudo stream
making a spreadsheet haha
random hull
Nah, I'm just writing it out here. I don't need a spreadsheet for that little information.
hearty elbow
The list is very short honestly. It's Hera bow, Lucifer rail, Zag fists (because base fist is good enough, honestly), Beowulf shield if you only intend to use the Special
pseudo stream
this is for things great at level 1?
static jacinth
Things that don't require significant leveling.
hearty elbow
Maybe Excalibur at low heat since the damage reduction aura isn't nearly as useful as the projectile slowing
and that's static per rank
random hull
I'd add Arthur to that, because you already get the full health boost from the start.
static jacinth
Rama and Arthur are mostly the same.
turbid needle
Poseidon's Cast dislodge works very well at level 1.
hearty elbow
Rama if you're doing Dio special is mostly the same, yes
turbid needle
You want the 50% damage bonus from it being max level, but just getting Casts back is still useful.
hearty elbow
But it's dramatically different if you're doing any attack build
random hull
Achilles, Poseidon and Talos are kinda on the fence. Their mechanics are good from level 1, but they still scale very well with leveling.
pseudo stream
yeah, this spreadsheet has the first blood, then the value you get from fully upgrading haha
random hull
The other side (which aspects definitely need to be at full level) is definitely more clear-cut.
pseudo stream
which are those? 😇
hearty elbow
Most of them 😛
turbid needle
Nemesis, Hades, Chaos and Zeus, Chiron, Demeter, Hestia and Eris.
random hull
Guan Yu.
turbid needle
Ooh, yeah, definitely Guan Yu.
hearty elbow
Yeah GY is the most extreme example
On the plus side, at level 1, you get back like 5% of your max health per spin hit! Broken
turbid needle
Extreme Measures 3
pseudo stream
okay, so I've simplified my spreadsheet, it now has 4 options per aspect: Bad, Min, Smooth, Max
where Min means most of its power comes from 1, max means you need it maxed, and smooth means it's good all the way
hearty elbow
All the fist aspects should be smooth. Fist as a base weapon is just great
Demeter scales the hardest with ranks
but it's still Malphon
pseudo stream
Nemesis, Hades, Chaos and Zeus, Chiron, Demeter, Hestia and Eris.
@turbid needle this claims Demeter isn't great?
turbid needle
It needs max investment.
pseudo stream
okay, so the ones I'm missing: Zag Bow, Zag Shield, Zag Spear, Hades, Zag Fists, Zag Rail, Lucifer
random hull
Lucifer is playstyle-dependant. I'd say it's either Min or Smooth according to your definition.
hearty elbow
Maxing any of the Zag aspects is about as expensive as 2 ranks of any other weapon, so it's kind of a freeroll. Zag aspect is trash
of sword*
random hull
The Zag weapons are all so cheap to level that you might as well put them in Max.
pseudo stream
hmm... so I guess if we wanted to be optimal we'd work out when weapons were better than the Zag 5
but that's certainly more work than it's worth
hearty elbow
The "correct" answer here is try any weapon (even Guan Yu) at low level, and if you like the moveset, invest more
pseudo stream
yeah, but a lot of us don't have much to invest
random hull
Out of all the Zagreus aspects, Malphon is probably the most useful, due to the innate dodge.
hearty elbow
Due to the innate Malphon
pseudo stream
how's Hades'?
random hull
Following that, Aegis (that extra base damage goes a long way), Varatha (Special spam builds are viable), Coronacht (innate critting is nice too), Exagryph (competely overshadowed by the other aspects), Stygius (don't dash into the lava whoops)
Hades is Smooth.
turbid needle
Exagryph still has broken Spread Fire.
random hull
Hm, true that. Relying on hammers is really situational though, so let's keep it out of the consideration for now.
random hull
I see your point.
pseudo stream
specific hammers?
hearty elbow
GY already is the most titan blood reliant weapon lol so that argument doesn't really make sense
pseudo stream
is it okay to link Google docs in here?
random hull
Wouldn't be the first time.
random hull
The lower part has been cut off.
pseudo stream
if you click the link?
random hull
I'm still only seeing one line of the rail.
pseudo stream
hmm... I feel there aren't as many Mins here as there should be, atm I just have Hera
oh. I have no idea why that would be the case haha
random hull
That probably comes from your introduction of the smooth category.
Hera is the only weapon with an underwhelming upgrade progression.
pseudo stream
Yeah, that’s fair. Smooth seems important, but we might have lost a useful piece of info for noobs (like me)
Are there both “smooth and you’re happy at min”, and “smooth but you really wanna finish this”?
Or is all smooth relatively similar
random hull
It's relatively similar. They all have "the main mechanic get's unlocked at level 1 and then there is incremental improvements" in common, is what I would say.
pseudo stream
Okay, cool. Good enough for me! I was hoping for more mins haha
random hull
Almost all weapons have a "you really wanna finish this" to them.
I mean, that's the whole point of why Titan Blood is such a big deal.
pseudo stream
Currently have Talos, Hera, and Achilles myself
random hull
Casting-heavy, then.
pseudo stream
Oh? Isn’t just Hera about casting?
But also yeah I do like cast... I use the 3 casts, not sure it’s optimal
random hull
Talos and Achilles increase casting damage together with attack damage.
You're not forced to go for a cast, but since there are relatively few ways to improve the damage of casts, they are noteworthy in this regard.
For example, using Achilles to smack a bunch of Crush Shots into an enemy's back is really effective, especially with parting shot.
hearty elbow
Super duper saddening against bosses though, because it lodges
random hull
I have yet to put a Talos build with Freezing Vortex together. I think it would be fun meme build.
pseudo stream
isn't lodging usually good for the +50% damage?
hearty elbow
It only applies to special and attack damage
And lodging is really bad for Achilles/Hera because you need to wait for that to come out before you can do you damage loop again
random hull
In the case of the above Achilles build, you would still need a good attack boon because it will take some time until you can get your bloodstones back.
random hull
The possibilities are aplenty.
hearty elbow
Nah I mean it just feels awful to wait for bloodstones. It's like 15 seconds. So theyr'e very close to unusable with Achilles
Maybe 10 seconds? Actually not sure
pseudo stream
can't you take the "recharges anyway" mirror thing?
hearty elbow
Stygian Soul was nerfed significnatly
By virtue of widening the Well of Charon pool and the Chaos pool
random hull
15 seconds it is.
Stygian Soul doesn't allow the big burst damage Infernal Soul provides, but would get a lot better if you can get extra bloodstones.
Prometheus' Stone, Chaos' Grasp, Fully Loaded (which is notoriously difficult to get).
pseudo stream
Ugh there are so many names here that I don’t recognize 😢
There’s a lot in the game haha
hearty elbow
Especially with Bone Hourglass you used to be able to semi-consistently hit 3 or 4 casts with Stygian Soul but now it's more or less relegated to a supportive talent to synergize with Ravenous Will or if you only need the Boiling Blood bonus and don't want to pick up your bloodstones, like Zag Aspect of bow
random hull
Oh, then let me break it down a bit.
Prometheus' Stone is an item from the Well shop that gives a temporary extra cast stone.
Chaos' Grasp is a Chaos boon that gives an indefinite extra cast stone.
Fully Loaded is Artemis' Legendary that gives two (2) extra cast stones.
If you don't know a term, the wiki is your friend.
hearty elbow
While I appreciate the focus on data collection and information, even with a limited time to play the game, time is best spent just learning the mechanics with what feels good and going with the flow. The base version of every weapon is usable (Zag sword ironically the least)
I feel like that was more or less intentional though to make Titan Blood feel really special, because it means you don't have to use Zag sword ever again 😛
pseudo stream
Yeah I was using the wiki, learned what crush shot and parting shot were... but am not at computer anymore
I mean... when you’re spending a permanent resource, you don’t wanna waste it!
I actually got zag sword 1 and got my first win with it, regrettably 😛
hearty elbow
Eh if you use golden touch and play conservatively with Gold you can get like roughly 4 blood per run (if you liquidate the diamond from Lernie and buy the diamond/blood in styx)
random hull
Ironically, there is a prophecy that involves putting five Titan Blood into Zag Sword.
pseudo stream
Which is golden touch?
random hull
Mirror Talent.
pseudo stream
Oh 5% thing, yeah thanks
hearty elbow
15% extra at the end of every biome
random hull
15% when maxed out - that's plenty of interest.
pseudo stream
Still, I’d rather have ramping difficulty than farm
Tbh I find the difficulty ramps a little too gradually, I miss dead cells 😛
Ooh. I save a lot of gold now, I should grab that!
hearty elbow
So people will always overblow the difficulty of getting titan blood. If you play a little bit each day, like 2 runs, that's half a max weapon
random hull
And some prophecies pay handsomely in blood, too.
pseudo stream
Yeah the “escape with every weapon” is one I’m excited for
hearty elbow
The difficulty ramps at the speed you want it to, actually
pseudo stream
Sadly my last fists run died hard
hearty elbow
If anything I wish Dead Cells was more like Hades
pseudo stream
Skipping heats just means you have to grind later instead of earlier, doesn’t really help
hearty elbow
You had no control over difficulty in Dead Cells. The game got harder, and if you didn't get better with it, you hit a wall
pseudo stream
If I could skip heats and get some of the rewards? Eff yes. But there are a few diamond things I still need, and wasting blood is just wasteful
pseudo stream
But you miss all the rewards from lower heats, no?
(Specifically if you’ve beaten heat 1 and then do heat 7, you get rewards only for 2)
hearty elbow
The game will always reward you as if you were the next heat sequentially in the bounty chain, even if you do 57 heat, but have 10 heat bounty, you will only fulfill 11 heat bounty
pseudo stream
Exactly, so skipping heat just passes the buck
unkempt pagoda
heat levels don't get locked out, if that's what you're thinking
you can always go back and play a lower heat level
static jacinth
You can just play on heat 30 all day and slowly unlock bounties.
Nothing is stopping you.
random hull
Except the Greatshield shockwaves colliding with your face, and so on.
hearty elbow
The only times it gets annoying are when you simultaneously want to practice higher heat and farm darkness for Fated Authority/Persuasion, but you haven't done that many bounties on that weapon
And that's so specific it's stupid
I admit to being stupid for feeling that way lol
random hull
I prefer to increase my heat slow and steady.
unkempt pagoda
just die on hades the heat you want to farm at
hearty elbow
But Hades gives that thicc darkness
unkempt pagoda
but then 3/4 bosses give darkness 
random hull
In the end, that's what we all want - blood and darkness.
unkempt pagoda
and the abolishment of speeder chariots
hearty elbow
That scripted load screen line and when Zag says "blood and darkness" afterwards kind of reminds me of an innocent kid cursing for the first time in a bathroom then covering his mouth from guilt
cunning urchin
I farm bounties at 50+ Heat. Is that the intended way to play?
gleaming current
Perhaps 
tho i sure won't mind if extra bounty heat levels would be claimed if you cranked the heat very, very high up
hearty elbow
I guess, though it would be kind of a massive bummer for those good good dopamine hits if you could finish a weapon by playing the first time on 21 heat lol
solemn pumice
Correct my if I’m wrong but it seems like upgrading the aspect of Hera is a bad thing if you’re using Stygian soul
Which you probably should be, so you can cast more often and it’s not such a big deal if you miss and your shot lands in magma
unkempt pagoda
it's not so much a bad thing as much as it is a useless thing
there are better aspects to upgrade (and you should be using infernal with hera anyways imo)
solemn pumice
It’s bad if you want to take advantage of the mirror talents for having stones stuck in enemies
unkempt pagoda
pretty sure boiling blood only affects attack and special damage, abyssal blood is trivial, and most of your damage will be coming from bursting multiple casts
the reduced dislodge time serves to get your casts back quickly so you can continue to deal high burst damage, which is especially useful on bosses
broken nexus
any tips on using rama bow - I just feel very clumsy with it. am usually aiming to spam special now - but always get attack awards and find it so slow?
floral apex
Yeah, I find tagging enemies then dashing around helps a lot
If you can tag multiple enemies at once you can mow down waves
hearty elbow
Dash strike always, and don't get greedy with charge shots. If you get triple shot, point blank, or explosive, your uncharged point blank damage should be serviceable
I use Rama special (with Dio) to control groups and deal with squishier or more mobile targets. It has decent interactions with Deadly Strike with the duo boon.
Tag everything in the map, the debuff lasts 12 seconds I think? Then find one vulnerable enemy, apply boiling blood, and charge a shot.
Clustering enemies and aiming a weak shot into a pack also multiplies the effectiveness of Shared Suffering, as each one hit will apply 60% to everyone else.
random hull
It's merely 7 seconds, so it requires quick acting.
hearty elbow
Good to know, must be one of the 50 previous versions I'm remembering. In that case particularly, don't sleep on the quality of life of Relentless Volley, especially with Dio, and Chain Shot.
Dio special with Aphro/Ares attack is also great as a hybrid damage build.
Thunder Flourish is also fantastic for clearing groups, but it's trash at killing bosses, and has no synergies in this regard (maybe Demeter attack with the Jolted duo?)
silk mountain
Can someone tell me what a good build for spear? Is Guan Yu a good aspect?
hearty elbow
The best, yes, but also probably amongst the hardest to use
The best amongst spears*
silk mountain
I was wondering, because I can't even get past Elysium with it 😄
That hp reduction is crippling me
hearty elbow
Athena attack with quick spin, or charged skewer with Artemis special.
Those are the two most common routes.
What I do is play it by ear, take Athena attack in the beginning, and wait until my first hammer to start committing to my build in either direction.
The higher the heat, the more of a crutch the lifesteal is. It really is as simple as getting hit less, unfortunately.
Reason for that being mostly Tight Deadline. Spinning is sooo slow.
solemn pumice
So why do you say it’s the best aspect
hearty elbow
Common opinion is Chaos aspect.
solemn pumice
I was asking why you said Guan Yu is the best spear aspect if the life steal spin is too slow to be practical
hearty elbow
Because the other spears are pretty bad unfortunately. Either super gimmicky or just underwhelming. Guan Yu is truly amazing though. The special with Charged Skewer is one of the best attacks in the game period.
The spin is unique and offers near invulnerability within its radius if you use Athena
Free upside that anything that likes to use Athena attack lends itself uniquely well to use the crit Goddess trio, since you get trivial Deadly Reversal permanent uptime.
So while you do need hammers to make either build path work, their boons overlap a lot so it's still consistent to get a viable build.
pseudo stream
crit goddess trio?
silk mountain
Is there any page or anything like that for decent builds, anyway? I don't want to spam here every time I have no idea what build should I try. Or are there any "golden rules"?
cunning urchin
Study the possible Duo Boons and what you need for them, and study the different boon trees for each god.
Then you can come up with your own builds and see how viable they are, how long it takes to come together, how reliably you can get everything for it, what you like about it and what you don't like about it.
hearty elbow
@pseudo stream Artemis, Aphrodite, and Athena. The Arty/Aphro duo, Heart Rend, offers a unique 1.5x total damage multiplier if you crit a weak enemy, and Arty/Athena duo, Deadly Reversal, gives you 2 seconds of 20% crit to everything after you deflect. Aphro by herself provides the biggest % damage boosts, and Athena's are pretty large themselves, but her main contribution is Divine Dash, which is both a very easy way to proc Deadly Reversal while also being the best defensive option in the game.
cunning urchin
The most successful players will copy builds that are proven strong to test them out if they sound interesting, but we all have our own opinions on things, and sometimes we come to the same conclusions, but often we don't.
hearty elbow
The crit trio is ironclad though. It works with every weapon, but it's such a flexible concept that there is room to play with what is optimal as to which Goddess should be applied where.
You also don't have to (and often can't) use all 3,
silk mountain
Okay, but how do I know what god would and wouldn't be good for, say, gauntlets?
hearty elbow
Try them 😛 Gauntlets are great, they work with virtually everything, though common sense would suggest that effects like Doom on attack aren't optimal... unless they are, and in that case it's one of the best builds in the game
cunning urchin
Curse of Agony on Malphon is very strong.
hearty elbow
It's really important to develop a playstyle around what works for you so you can extend that to unfamiliar situations. It won't be the same as everyone. It never is.
hearty elbow
Even "golden rules" like "just use the crit trio lawl" are just heuristics. There are a dozen ways to do just that per weapon aspect, and we've endlessly bickered about which is better when, why, at what heat, and in what situations
cunning urchin
When I watch Haelian, he prioritizes very different things a lot of the time, but we both have success by going with what makes the most sense to each of us.
Even "golden rules" like "just use the crit trio lawl" are just heuristics.
It's just pre Blood Price meta that still works. It's far from optimal for most things imo. We have way more Duo Boons now.
It's great for speedruns.
gleaming current
Crit trio being Arty Athena Aphro?
hearty elbow
Right. For instance, I will never understand why he spends gold before/in Asphodel on damage items from Wells of Charon (obviously when he isn't speedrunning). But he has way better results than me, so who am I to say.
Yeah
gleaming current
Makes sense then, was carried on 32 by that kewl
For instance, I will never understand why he spends gold before/in Asphodel on damage items from Wells of Charon (obviously when he isn't speedrunning).
same
cunning urchin
I do that sometimes.
gleaming current
Ye
hearty elbow
I don't like mentioning the duo boons in that because honestly they're not necessary
the goddesses themselves have enough intrinsic synergy that it really doesn't matter if you get the duos
cunning urchin
Focusing on those three works very consistently on Nemesis or the Zagreus Aspect of Coronacht.
gleaming current
I prefer anime girls trio term but it's oddly specific
cunning urchin
Because they have inherent crit chance.
hearty elbow
Right, but say for example on Demeter Aspect, if I go Aphrodite attack, Artemis Special, and Athena dash... does it matter if I get any of the crit duos? I'm set to win that run
cunning urchin
I dunno. It's not like there's any common name for the "trio" in the community lol.
hearty elbow
Yeah I used my name for it, but people will always understand what you mean at large because they work so well with ieach other
dry ember
Deadly Strike Heartbreak Flourish Divine Dash on something like Arthur is nutty
pseudo stream
@pseudo stream Artemis, Aphrodite, and Athena. The Arty/Aphro duo, Heart Rend, offers a unique 1.5x total damage multiplier if you crit a weak enemy, and Arty/Athena duo, Deadly Reversal, gives you 2 seconds of 20% crit to everything after you deflect. Aphro by herself provides the biggest % damage boosts, and Athena's are pretty large themselves, but her main contribution is Divine Dash, which is both a very easy way to proc Deadly Reversal while also being the best defensive option in the game.
@hearty elbow ooh all of this sounds rad! generally Artemis isn't my favourite goddess, crits are too unpredictable, but she's got some great stuff
dry ember
generally Artemis isn't my favourite goddess, crits are too unpredictable
Heresy
hearty elbow
Eventually they'll figure out the cominbation of nerfs necessary to not make her the best girl
gleaming current
Artemis is sort of hidden gem tbh. Crits feel so underwhelming at first glance even with stated 200% bonus dmg, but it's the only effective damage multiplier so when you get damage boosts from other sources it goes bonkers quickly
eternal quartz
Sorry to interrupt, guys, but I have an announcement to make (and I have to do it now, as I need to go to sleep)
Time to get rich (fast) is up! Congratulations to all Money Makers and we hope you had fun! Here's the link to Hall of Fame: https://www.hades-fansite.com/hades-weekly-challenges/HWC07
Now watch out! Next one hits hard! Here's Hades Weekly Challenge #8 - Tough Guys
https://www.hades-fansite.com/hades-weekly-challenges/HWC08
New info you can get pinged about the Challenges! Get "Hades Weekly Challenge" rank in bot-commands server!
With Zagreus' frequent attempts to escape, Cerberus has once again started to grow anxious at the thought of Zagreus leaving. Much more than the lounge could be in danger if someone doesn't bulk up and roughhouse some of that nervous energy out of the Underworld's best boys. Just remember that only one of Cerberus's heads likes to be pet!
Conditions:
- Blade with Aspect of Arthur
- Old Spiked Collar keepsake for the whole run
- Always choose Centaur Heart as a chamber reward and buy it from Charon's store if possible
- Always buy Centaur Soul from the Well if possible
- When visiting Chaos you need to take "Soul" curse (the one that adds HP)
Mirror:
- Fiery Presence
- Chthonic Vitality
- Ruthless Reflex
- Thick Skin
- Dark Foresight
Heat:
- Hard Labor 2
- Lasting Consequences 2
- Calisthenics Program 2
- Damage Control 2
Challenge brought to you by the HWC Committee (Tiank, Firespirit, Tatz)
No good bois were harmed during preparations of this challenge
https://i.imgur.com/q3Uwseo.png
hearty elbow
Neato. Question, do you need to take Chaos gates if presented then?
eternal quartz
no. But if you decide to do so, then you HAVE to take the Soul curse if it appears or if you roll it
hearty elbow
Thanks
cunning urchin
Forcing DC2 on people. How cruel.
eternal quartz
feel free to ask Firespirit about the challenge as well
hearty elbow
Lol, I just noticed that. Sadist
gleaming current
dc2 arthur... hmm yes
cunning urchin
Well, it's just DC2 and not DC2 + BP or JS.
hearty elbow
Artemis is sort of hidden gem tbh. Crits feel so underwhelming at first glance even with stated 200% bonus dmg, but it's the only effective damage multiplier so when you get damage boosts from other sources it goes bonkers quickly
@gleaming current I think the other thing that people don't get because it's not intuitive when you start is how damage works. The really really low bonus damage from Artemis boons feels bad, until you find out that everything dumps its percentages in the same pool so that number is very close to just flavor text
dry ember
If I was in charge, it's Zag Bow DC2 all run every run.
cunning urchin
I think you're especially glad that I don't balance them.
gleaming current
Oh for sure
dry ember
simple: RI4 LC4
gleaming current
Otherwise anyone who would win the weekly will also set a WR
dry ember
that's it
hearty elbow
RI5 AP3
gleaming current
AP3 is unironically fun way to make boonless run
(aside from hammers going extinct too)
gleaming current
RI4 LC4 for 12 sounds way worse
hearty elbow
Lol, yeah. It makes max heat math really iffy
unreal owl
do the fists have a 4th aspect like the other weaps? can't find any on the wiki
hearty elbow
Man they will have to replace so much Underworld Renovation dialogue
dry ember
nope
cunning urchin
Underworld Renovations will never finish.
You'll never get out.
There is no escape.
abstract juniper
^^
hearty elbow
Mom was Skelly the whole time
gleaming current
6 weapons is good enough imho
More will just start copying other aspects
dry ember
I would not mind a hammer or axe tbh
unreal owl
there will have to be a canon ending that shoots us right back to the beginning so xD
cunning urchin
@hearty elbow please tag spoilers.
dry ember
it's not the same
cunning urchin
The canon ending is you have to do it on 50+ heat.
dry ember
I am so glad you are not the dev Nyaa
analog sail
We already have a heavy two handed weapon
hearty elbow
Yeah it's kind of odd that there isn't a weapon that starts out as a big slow hit weapon
gleaming current
Ah well, special for spin2win move then
analog sail
I mean, rail special
hearty elbow
Nah, I meant something that gives the sensation of "big stick go BONK"
cunning urchin
@dry ember one of my favorite games calls easy mode "Ninja Dog" and generally humiliates you if you use it.
cunning urchin
Ninja Gaiden.
hearty elbow
Obv we have Arthur but that's an aspect of a weapon, it's definitely not in the normal spirit of Stygius
analog sail
It's the only spirit of Stygius as far as I'm concerned
dry ember
tbh Arthur is the most sword like aspect
cunning urchin
Anyway, good luck to everyone trying that weekly challenge.
dry ember
because you actually use 3 hit combo
analog sail
I like being able to crit for 1300 damage
dry ember
unlike the dash spam fiesta that is nemesis
I like being able to crit for 1300 damage
I, too, like critting for 1300 on a DC heart shield.
hearty elbow
It is... terribly unintuitive that you aren't supposed to attack with the sword lol
cunning urchin
What are the question marks about? 
main osprey
What are you talking about?
dry ember
I don't think that's how the sword is intended to be played lol
main osprey
(that's what the ? mean)
dry ember
Dash spam is something that people do by abusing the animation cancel and input buffer
cunning urchin
Tiank just posted a new Weekly Challenge.
main osprey
Ohhh
cunning urchin
If you scroll up a bit.
errant narwhal
Time to get rich (fast) is up! Congratulations to all Money Makers and we hope y...
gleaming current
Ah well, time to learn Aspect of Arthur
hearty elbow
Well, they definitely intended to make the base attack take 3 years and hit like tissue paper, as they set the numbers, so 😛
floral apex
Can someone explain to me how merciful end (ares/athena) duo actually works? If im reading it right, you tag an enemy with a doom attack, then if you hit an enemy with a deflect attack it procs the doom off very slightly earlier than it would normally?
gleaming current
Can someone explain to me how merciful end (area/athena) duo actually works? If im reading it right, you tag an enemy with a doom attack, then if you hit an enemy with a deflect attack it procs the doom off very slightly earlier than it would normally?
as soon as deflect lands, other than that exactly
dry ember
except you don't proc the doom off "very slightly earlier"
hearty elbow
You can abuse it with Divine Dash and a fast weapon
dry ember
Merciful End is kinda busted on certain weapons.
pseudo stream
I don't understand how to fight satyrs or bow exalted
gleaming current
I don't like the term "abuse"
Much more fitting one is "minmax the boon potential"
floral apex
ok
dry ember
Merc End is awesome on Shield, Fists, and... Zagreus Sword xD
gleaming current
Can confirm the latter
hearty elbow
It's okay, I still don't understand how to fight super elite greatbows. My current strategy is "hide in my safe place until they get bored"
gleaming current
Successful 4sack on TD2 JS1 CP2 is something
(and in fact 5sack would have been possible too)
cunning urchin
You fight them by throwing your Naegling's Board at them 1 or 2 times at them depending on if they have armor.
dry ember
I don't understand how to fight satyrs or bow exalted
If you have deflect, use sound cue or visual cue for deflect (not recommended on FO2)
Otherwise, hide behind terrain, or stun lock them
hearty elbow
If you have deflect, use sound cue or visual cue for deflect (not recommended on FO2)
@dry ember You mean extremely recommended on FO2 lol
hearty elbow
It's harder, yes, but also way more necessary
dry ember
I do, too
floral apex
Just to clarify, does the merciful end doom proc on reflecting attacks or hitting enemies with a reflect attack?
cunning urchin
I i-frame them otherwise.
dry ember
but if the dude is having trouble with satyrs and bow in general
then I don't recommend learning to deal with them by learning to deflect on FO2 lol
gleaming current
It procs on hitting enemies
floral apex
ok, ta
hearty elbow
If you have Divine Dash and Greatest Reflex you can just dash infinitely as soon as they start any animation
Which is how you fix all problems in Hades
dry ember
Just to clarify, does the merciful end doom proc on reflecting attacks or hitting enemies with a reflect attack?
you just need to use your deflect move. so if you have divine dash, you can proc Doom by just dashing next to them, no need to deflect anything.
hearty elbow
You can with Brilliant Riposte lol
gleaming current
Lernie fight Brilliant Riposte as only dmg source when
Preferably violet variant of Lernie
(one that causes rubbles to drop when smashing floor)
hearty elbow
Lol, didn't know you could even deflect that attack
cunning urchin
Basically, for both Satyrs and Strongbows, either take the fight to the other end of the room, away from them until you've finished off the other enemies, or single them out immediately and take them down before they can pose a threat. That's a very general strategy for them.
gleaming current
Now that i think of it... it's pretty peculiar lernie has so many variants compared to other bossfights
dry ember
I mean the change is kinda minimal imo
hearty elbow
EM2 is a cool fight
dry ember
I hardly care about the head, except the headslam and the summon one
cunning urchin
Homing projectiles are pretty mean.
hearty elbow
Rakers are like raid bosses in that fight, especially if you don't see them during the phase 2 heads
dry ember
question
how does 4 max god and forcing a new one work?
is there anyway you can influence which God will be forced out?
hearty elbow
Is one forced out? I thought you get your 1 guaranteed and that's it
dry ember
I think there is a "pool" of god.
cunning urchin
I'm honestly still not too sure. I'm not sure if 1 is forced out or if there's a chance for all 5 to appear from there on.
dry ember
if you forced a 5th one then one god from the old pool gets kicked.
now I am not sure who specifically will be kicked
hearty elbow
Yeah I've heard both from here, and I never really pay that close attention while I'm playing
cunning urchin
Fated Authority also does some weird things to the god pool.
dry ember
It's ... kinda important for all weapon speedruns xD
hearty elbow
No, for sure it's definitely important. Also has pretty dramatic consequences for AP2
floral apex
Is there a secret hardcap of 4 duo boons on runs?
pseudo stream
any advice on playing Poseidon Sword?
hearty elbow
No
floral apex
PaulG: Exit wounds (artemis) ftw
dry ember
Is there a secret hardcap of 4 duo boons on runs?
Supposedly yes
pseudo stream
Basically, for both Satyrs and Strongbows, either take the fight to the other end of the room, away from them until you've finished off the other enemies, or single them out immediately and take them down before they can pose a threat. That's a very general strategy for them.
@cunning urchin yeah, these are what I kinda try, but I can't dodge satyrs from close, and Greatbows put this targeting thing on me but it doesn't seem.. meaningful?
dry ember
that's why you use sound cue for satyrs
it's near impossible to dodge the projectile, you listen to the gurgle sound and you time your dodge
floral apex
Feels like no matter how hard i force it, its impossible to get more than 4 :/
hearty elbow
any advice on playing Poseidon Sword?
@pseudo stream The most common build uses Artemis cast, and you get Poseidon for the duo
pseudo stream
and do you use the 3 casts, or the regerating cast?
dry ember
I mean you can get 4 gods in Tartarus, force a new one in Asphodel
hearty elbow
Infernal Soul (3 casts)
cunning urchin
I don't think it's the most common.
floral apex
Sorry, i mean impossible to get more than 4 duos, two convos at once here
dry ember
ah nvm then
cunning urchin
So is Ice Wine or Scintillating Feast.
dry ember
Infernal Soul fits in more builds
hearty elbow
@cunning urchin Yeah I guess most common is disingenuous since the aspect is no longer in meta. People are doing fun runs with it now exclusively
pseudo stream
I do not like the 3 shot Adamant rail hammer upgrade, I think it cost me my run (but I'm not 100% I'd have survived without)
hearty elbow
It's soooooo bad lol. It's a meme at this point
dry ember
literally a DPS drop in 99% of cases
main osprey
@eternal quartz want to double-check: Are Erebus Centaur Hearts required (if we have enough heat)?
dry ember
I am surprised we don't see any feedback on how stupid that thing is
hearty elbow
It's a rite of passage to try to make it work
cunning urchin
@main osprey yes, for you specifically, they definitely are now that you asked.
pseudo stream
yeah, I was like "oh, I haven't seen this one yet and I have a lot of damage for my attack"... it definitely did not help haha
hearty elbow
I thought you meant Triple Bomb at first and I was like... but it's a strict upgrade
cunning urchin
I'm guessing other people won't have to choose Infernal Gates for the challenge.
But you do.
And if you fail, it won't count.
hearty elbow
Need to seed for Life Affirmation obv
floral apex
Is the mirror upgrade health on darkness better than health on room clear? Ive seen a few people use it, but I havent been able to get it to work well
cunning urchin
You'll also have to make sure you pick a Centaur Heart Infernal Gate if you see one in Elysium. And win the heart.
hearty elbow
and route for Dio's Nectar boon
main osprey
Nyaa, not enough heat to, sorry >:3
hearty elbow
Coward
cunning urchin
Didn't take TD2 like @dry ember said smh.
dry ember
@floral apex Dark Regeneration probably gives you more value for the run in whole
floral apex
Fair enough, I'll maybe drop my heat and start playing with it a bit more. ta
cunning urchin
I use Chthonic Vitality if I'm farming bounties. It's pretty nice.
hearty elbow
It starts scaling better when you get the Infernal Trove upgrades
floral apex
Ive got the upgrades, but admittedly i miss some of the troves
hearty elbow
Lol, don't feel too bad about that, For whatever reason my brain is tuned to see everything I miss only after I use a door.
analog sail
I would give feedback on Delta Chamber.
If I ever got it.
floral apex
On final floor -> need gold -> clear subchambers -> use door -> spot golden urns
analog sail
Rail is the only weapon I don't have the prophecy completed. Is there something I'm missing here? I always run Zag aspect on it at this point.
dry ember
Enter Chaos gate
Take boon
Exit Chaos gate
Zag: hey there is a fish
hearty elbow
Three are about a million Lucy only hammers
Lmao, I wish there was like a honking gigantic red watermark that covers your screen when there's a fish in Chaos
analog sail
Which is why I'm not using L anymore, sadly. I'd love to make Hellfire actually work
random hull
That oh-dang-there-was-something appears to be so frequent because the screen dims when leaving a chamber, and bright particles become more noticable. I suffer from the same problem
hearty elbow
I think for me its mostly the "gotta go fast" mentality coupled with the game stopping forcibly when you open a door
analog sail
I feel like one chamber out of five I go "welp, goodbye golden urn, I'm sure I won't need 10 extra gold"
random hull
That too. The screen no longer moving and the eyes defocusing could play a role.
analog sail
I usually see them right after choosing an exit, not during the fade
hearty elbow
Particularly in Elysium. I miss basically everything in Elysium if I'm running TD2. Though to be fair, Troves are close to death sentences
I usually see them right after choosing an exit, not during the fade
@analog sail Same. It's definitely not the particles getting more noticable, it's my brain actually pausing to look for them in the first place
Though I am a proponent of making the fish sparkles not white in Asphodel and Elysium
dry ember
give me a much louder ding please
hearty elbow
They could make it colored base off of reward, so Green > Gold > Amber > Green, and Purple in CHaos (oh wait everything is purple... uh...)
analog sail
Yes, make the chaos fish more difficult to see, I approve
floral apex
I love Hades, but I think the way the game "jumps" between fast paced combat and then punishing players for not exploring large rooms fully is a flaw
analog sail
Punishing is a strong word, I think it's a minor inconvenience
hearty elbow
Tight Deadline 2 is pretty largely responsible for that dichotomy
Before I had it on I do remember switching seamlessly from combat to fishing
floral apex
I mean, you miss potential gold, as well as fish and even portals
analog sail
Also if you're paying attention you can break urns while killing things, which is a habit I have picked up
floral apex
Its a minor punishment, but I still consider it a punishment
dry ember
TD2 pace can be solved if the timer stops when you receive the boon or rewards for that room
so you can run around looking
not like you have anything left to kill in that room
analog sail
I consider urns to be extra rewards, since they're not guaranteed
floral apex
Yes, but they have the potential to spawn in every room
hearty elbow
Though it feels extra special when you hit a shop and find you're 15 gold short
floral apex
So by not scanning every room for potential urns youre putting yourself at a disadvantage
hearty elbow
And you know exactly where it could've come from
dry ember
when I miss a gold urn, I think of it as "it's OK, I manipulated RNG so I get a Legendary next room."
yeah, definitely that
analog sail
I feel like I can take the 100-130 gold disadvantage over a run and still make it
hearty elbow
Lol, yeah it's never made or broken a run for me, but it still feels bad. It's part of the fun for me, honestly
floral apex
Apparently I said a bad word
analog sail
Also, I feel like getting an urn is an advantage rather than the opposite
hearty elbow
Unless you're in the Styx lobby. If you don't get gold there the game is a rip off artist
analog sail
Which may be why I'm not that bothered
floral apex
Not taking advantages is intentionally taking disadvantages
analog sail
I have golden touch and I don't spend gold. I got this.
floral apex
Like, if you accidentally took a key room over a Hermes room, I'd call that disadvantaging yourself
hearty elbow
Convenience Fee 2 is actually pretty freeing. Everything costs a million so you never need to gripe over small bits of gold, it rarely matters
dry ember
Like, if you accidentally took a key room over a Hermes room, I'd call that disadvantaging yourself
Except you literally can't take key room over a Hermes room. That choice would never happen
hearty elbow
Whereas without it, an urn is 1/10 of a boon, or like 1/8ish of a heart
analog sail
Also, I disagree. Taking an advantage is not not taking a disadvantage.
That's also impossible
dry ember
I think you misremembered
main osprey
that guide is referring to rerolling room rewards
analog sail
Let's say a Sisisphus room and a key room, that's possible
dry ember
I use it as demonstration for room spawn also
main osprey
I'll see if I can get a screenshot, but I'm pretty sure i've seen otherwise
dry ember
you can't have a mix of a gold laurel and a blue laurel room
that's just not possible
so you will never see boon vs gemstones choice
you can see NPC as gold or blue, sure
eternal quartz
how do we suggest ideas to the weekly challenge?
@dry ember ping me or Firespirit when posting here (I think that would be alright in this server...?) Or DM one of us
dry ember
sounds good! thank you
eternal quartz
@eternal quartz want to double-check: Are Erebus Centaur Hearts required (if we have enough heat)?
@main osprey not required
analog sail
Also it's a lot better when blue laurel rewards get upgraded.
But anyway. Even in that case, I would say that missing golden urns because you don't want to stop and check the room fully is a choice you can make. In fact I make it. Every time.
I guess it's all subjective. I don't feel particularly bad when I miss an urn , I just wave it goodbye when it's in plain sight.
main osprey
is anyone else having issues where Skelly doesn't actually pull all enemies' aggro?
gleaming current
not required
Damn, I rocked for one anyway
main osprey
same
gleaming current
Also tbh Darkness room rewards should probably have been enforced as well, but that may be a tad too evil
main osprey
I just reached Styx, nice job :3
gleaming current
Thank ye
Good luck with styx, rats without dying lament are something out of this world of being annoyance
gleaming current
Also speaking of arthur, damn this blade is interesting
And even more so with how I got to use it: double edge from the start, but no attack boon till elysium
No idea how to use it on FO2 
hearty elbow
Greater Consecration and Aphro attack helps
gleaming current
Aphro attack indeed slaps
hearty elbow
I think Artemis attack is better but you have to be really precise
gleaming current
Casual 1k dmg backstabs (w/ shadow slash but eh)
hearty elbow
Breaching slash is soooo good with Arthur
gleaming current
Armor? Doesn't exist
hearty elbow
For the challenge, may want to consider Dio special
gleaming current
Dio dash maybe, altho it pales in comparison with good old divine dash
hearty elbow
Right lol, you def want that
gleaming current
Well too bad, personally got wasted 2 god slots by demeter and ares
hearty elbow
Ares is amazing. Battle Rage slaps so hard
gleaming current
Urge to kill 
hearty elbow
Maaaaybe not with DC2
gleaming current
Totally not you mean
hearty elbow
But those blue hearts are going to feel it
gleaming current
I doubt they have feelings at this point
static jacinth
DC 2 is such a flow murderer.
But you could probably work it in with some builds. Mostly bow builds, honestly. Rama and Chiron are ok with it.
gleaming current
Unless you got poseidon leggie zeus leggie their duo and poseidon attack on fists or sword 
gleaming current
Like "might as well spec into pointblank special" bad
gleaming current
I did unironically try this kind of build on bow btw. Was... bizarre
hearty elbow
I mean, the Charged Volley build doesn't have an aspect that makes sense with it lol, but it's still a good build
main osprey
ah crud
gleaming current
Chiron kinda minds because main arrow is still 20-30% of total dmg
But it works
main osprey
i just anviled into cursed slash
static jacinth
Just heal tank Hades 😄
main osprey
bleh
static jacinth
Easy.
gleaming current
^
hearty elbow
Lol Cursed Slash without too much HL ranks on Arthur is actually pretty good
static jacinth
This is the risk you take with the anvil of rng.
gleaming current
And with 150+ max hp after reduction, lol
static jacinth
Wow.
gleaming current
gl hf and don't get caught by laser ring
static jacinth
I don't even have 201 hp without cursed slash.
Let alone with it.
On most of my runs.
gleaming current
Hmm, well this weekly is by no means an ordinary run
hearty elbow
That's kind of unusual isn't it? I feel like 200 by hades you'd have to intentionally try to not hit
static jacinth
Oh is this on a weekly challenge?
gleaming current
Yeah
static jacinth
I just prioritize centaur hearts pretty low.
gleaming current
Also ye I try to get around 300 to hades regardless
gleaming current
Might be a consequence of prioritizing centaur hearts over obols because of CF2 for me
static jacinth
I'm only on Heat 12.
hearty elbow
Also because obol rooms just aren't that great. You passively generate plenty
gleaming current
Well, with no CF it's somewhat better to get obols
Since you are free to choose a good reward
hearty elbow
Oh for sure, obol room = boon usually
gleaming current
CF2 makes them yucky though
main osprey
graaaah
gleaming current
Same for darkness vs gemstones choice
hearty elbow
Eh, not yucky, you still want enough gold in queue for a heart if you find one
But definitely not ideal lol
main osprey
I even fought Charon that run >.<
static jacinth
My logic, with my low heat butt not taking CF2, is that an obol room is 100 gold, a heart costs 125.
With the 15% from golden touch, if I'm in Asphodel or earlier, I'm making money taking obols.
hearty elbow
You're fully justified. Obol rooms are great without CF2.
static jacinth
Also I just don't generally need all that much health.
gleaming current
That's pretty much my logic too
static jacinth
I'm sure once I'm forced to slot in hard labor and lasting consequences I'll feel differently.
hearty elbow
Health also has extremely high value with LC4 Stubborn Defiance
gleaming current
^
May be a reason why i value it so much
Well, DD also benefits a ton from max health, but it's less of a risk running around with little
main osprey
gonna take a break for now, want to get some other stuff done, but I feel pretty good about getting this challenge done
static jacinth
I tend to handle the final fight decently if I'm being careful.
Unless I'm on a very spam requiring sword build.
Though EM3 Asterius still wrecks my face. I need to practice that some more.
gleaming current
Unless I'm on a very spam requiring sword build.
half of my runs in general
hue
No wonder hades makes a salad out of me
hearty elbow
WEirdly I think I end up pressing the most buttons on Arthur aspect, trying to buffer my next attack
gleaming current
Trying to catch that little edge between buffering and dash strike
hearty elbow
Yeah there's a sweet little baby timing window where you can continue the combo after 2 dashes
gleaming current
imagine if double edge meant exactly that: your dash strike just immediately goes into bonus swing instead of double dash strike hit
hearty elbow
Or if Hunter Dash applied to sword dash combos lol
main osprey
imagine if double-edge meant exactly that: you hit yourself at the same time as you hit the other guy
hearty elbow
2000 damage crits in tartarus
dry ember
Hunter Dash stacking on Arthur will ascend that thing to godhood
Like real talk I can see 52 heat done
Pick everything but DC
Seed for Hunter Dash
gleaming current
Wouldn't double edge be more profitable seed than hunter dash?
dry ember
I mean double edge doesn't work on Arthur
But if that works, too then yeah
Double Edge Hunter Dash Arthur will probably transcend reality
dry ember
I mean the combo thing
dry ember
Yeab the 50 damage normal dash strike is whatever
But the 200 third swing, if it stacks with Double Edge and Hunter Dash
Boy would that be spicy.
400 with Hunter Dash, 800 with double edge, if you have crit, 2400
gleaming current
Doesn't sound like it would. Do the attacks get the carried dash strike buffs?
dry ember
No
That's the thing
Your combo attack on Arthur (the wide swings) can be combined with dash for repositioning, but they are not considered dash strikes
gleaming current
Ah alright, was afraid they do and turn into nukes
dry ember
Yeah, that's why I said if the swings work as dash strikes and get buffed from Double Edge or Hunter Dash, you can probably do 52 heat with it
gleaming current
(so i misread that thread from the very start, huh)
Yeah, that would be an... interesting situation
main osprey
Ouch
fallow niche
Is Snap Nova the worst hammer in the game for being completely unusable and unhealthy to even watch, is it the best hammer for being the most bizarre thing in the game lmao @turbid needle
made haelian play it on stream and everyone got nauseous 
main osprey
see, I figured out the way to beat rooms like that
fallow niche
also holy smokes that room
main osprey
use a real weapon
fallow niche
i mean yeah bow sucks but jesus
main osprey
:3
fallow niche
idk if anything but flurry spear can beat it
main osprey
I mean, Hera or Chiron would be able to do it
fallow niche
big doubt on hera
unkempt pagoda
big doubt on hera
fallow niche
esp that early
unkempt pagoda
it'd have to be fast single target
fallow niche
what cast besides maybe ares blades
main osprey
ye
fallow niche
seems like the only thing
main osprey
but Chiron could do it
fallow niche
with one boon?
main osprey
yeah
maybe not with TD though
would still be slow
max rank chiron shreds DC hearts
fallow niche
like that situation just seems boned for the most part outside of specific boons on specific weapons
the majority of situations you're just done for LMAO
never seen a room like that before when playing 32 heat thank god
unkempt pagoda
the real kicker is that AP took away an epic deadly strike at the beginning 😔
main osprey
oof
fallow niche
oof
unkempt pagoda
i think a dash attack shield build could probably handle it tbh
static jacinth
AP is the worst.
unkempt pagoda
combined with pulverizing or dashing wallop
static jacinth
I hate it forever.
unkempt pagoda
anyways i did my sworn duty and f10'd that room so sgg can look at it
main osprey
thank you
gleaming current
Double edge sword likely would beat that
Some dash effects help greatly too
unkempt pagoda
but instead i had explosive shot bow 
main osprey
only hangover seems to be dash?
unkempt pagoda
drunken dash would make it trivial to apply the hangover for splitting headache
nova goblet
yeah, just dash
main osprey
still, drunken dash is the easiest way to apply it...
unkempt pagoda
and give it a much needed utility boost
main osprey
yeah, especially if you don't cast frequently, headache might be the way to go
nova goblet
everytime ive gotten dionysus hes only been giving me the after party/pos outlook/ strong drink
he hasnt been giving me much choice in terms of hangover
rare kayak
if theres one slightly annoying thing about drunken dash its that it cant break pots
nova goblet
-_- its not a party if ur not gonna break a few pots
main osprey
heh
static jacinth
It's only 7.5% crit at max stacks without the Aphrodite duo.
So it's not exactly crazy.
main osprey
that's a pretty hefty crit though
rare kayak
oh and also that its more for privileged status than hangover stuff because its damage is pretty pitiful
static jacinth
It's basically a higher rank pressure points.
main osprey
yeah
nova goblet
i mean, i am in styx so its not like i'll have tons of time to use it anyway
static jacinth
Am I weird for never using priveleged status?
unkempt pagoda
7.5% global crit chance
static jacinth
Pressure points is global too.
unkempt pagoda
no, a lot of us prefer family favorite
nova goblet
same
unkempt pagoda
on lucy that's 7.5% per tic of damage and per lightning strike
gleaming current
Hangover is literally DC2 death tbf
static jacinth
Yeah, it's a lot of crit and it's good.
nova goblet
yeah, i can make some good with this
gleaming current
Also there are a lot more dashes to get rid of hearts than dio one
Especially if you have 2+
unkempt pagoda
with the amount of strikes you'll be doing per second, 7.5% is quite a lot of damage
static jacinth
It looks like you just have a token Rare Floodshot at 1.
Right?
If that's the case Mirage shot is probably bad.
Though I do really like Lightning Rod if you have zeus boons.
nova goblet
yeah, mirage shot/lightining rod would be bad since i tnd to forget my casts anyway
main osprey
feelsbadman
nova goblet
i have 2 buttons, attack and dash
main osprey
any on that note I'm off ^.^ cy'all later
though!
gaybe
I challenge you
one button
nova goblet
later!
main osprey
just dash
unkempt pagoda
the moral of the story is: lightning rod bad
nova goblet
challenge accepted