i think aphro was charm of the lovely goddess
#h1-builds-and-combat
unkempt pagoda
dry ember
if you feedback that I will upvote it
small stirrup
Damn
dry ember
maybe not as long
but not as lame as it is rn
like how uncreative it is to call it Ares' Aid
like
why
small stirrup
And if you wanna talk about it in plural it just becomes Aids
autumn bough
I think this +200% Battle Rage is just overkill
small stirrup
Which is...
mighty ermine
i completely forgot about the detailed wrath names
and i agree they are very cool, i want them back
dry ember
I think this +200% Battle Rage is just overkill
@autumn bough yeah, I too love Battle Rage on Fists and non-Hestia Rail
autumn bough
The thing is, I took it on Hestia
dry ember
gotta get that x2 damage on my 15 damage attack
autumn bough
So it's super overkill
mighty ermine
i honestly still wish battle rage only applied to the connecting hits rather than any attack at all
mighty ermine
so it's just kind of annoying to take advantage of it for bull rush or spear spins etc.
dry ember
because you need to hit to spin
unkempt pagoda
i understand that they want parity between all the core boon names
but those names were cool lol
autumn bough
It should be on the next combo, tbh.
dry ember
I mean Crush Shot is creative
unkempt pagoda
(like divine dash used to be called titan toppler)
dry ember
it's a play on the word crush
autumn bough
And the word shot?
dry ember
or Hunter Dash is very fitting
autumn bough
XD
dry ember
same for Heartbreak Strike/Flourish
the naming is solid
Do we have an archive of those old names?
mighty ermine
i like how ares' attack and special naming scheme kind of goes outside the box
i.e. curse of agony
rather than x strike or flourish
unkempt pagoda
agony strike doesn't have quite the same ring to it
mighty ermine
doomy flourish
unkempt pagoda
crimson strike?
dry ember
yeah that works
unkempt pagoda
pretty boring though
empty robin
Sorrow Strike?
mighty ermine
probably too melancholy for ares' whole theming and ingame boon spread
random hull
I think that "Damning" would have worked well.
unkempt pagoda
accursed strike
random hull
I think that some duos starting out with "Curse of" in their name isn't as poetic as it could have been, but that's a question of taste, I guess..
mighty ermine
it's pretty much just an extension of ares' unique naming scheme, since all the duos with "curse of" involve him in part
random hull
I would have found it logical that all duo boons involving the Doom mechanic would have "curse of" in their name, but Merciful End doesn't, whereas Curse of Nausea and Curse of Drowning don't fit from the other end.
mighty ermine
yeah, it would have readily continued the trend started with ares' three basic boons including "curse of" using doom in some way. but i guess its usage with duo names now (especially after blood price) just kind of indicates "ares is here" in a very general capacity
turbid needle
whenever its curse it means you need doom and thats helpful imo
mighty ermine
huh, really? because i've gotten curse of drowning with just a blade rift boon before
turbid needle
oh wait it does
I just assumed you needed doom
nvm
wait you can get curse of nausea with rifts too
aaaaaaah
mighty ermine
lol
turbid needle
I've been building wrong this entire time
small stirrup
Ayo did anyone get a migraine when playing with snap nova or was that just me?
Just finished a run and feel like absolute shades
lapis pilot
i think i played one run with snap nova. i don't have the big brain for it and pretty sure that run failed.
grave tapir
I only played one encounter. Never again. Ruined my day.
Definitely requires big brain strategies to do it right (and Im sure there is someone, somewhere who can make it work).
cunning urchin
Snap Nova is really strong.
dire wedge
I love Snap Nova with Poseidon aspect
trail otter
Snap Nova is nice but took me some time to get used too
dire wedge
What if the camera only centered on Zag after the sword outline disappears? Since the camera keeps on Zag while he's jumping around it could indeed make some people dizzy
gilded knoll
So like, Lucy aspect, are Asterius and Theseus supposed to not be able to break the orbs?
I've legit caught Theseus EM3 in some orbs and he can't break them, Asterius apparently can't either...
Miniboss Asterius can break them however
untold quiver
Agree with @dire wedge snap Nova with Posidon blade is great
random hull
I finally got the combination together, and as it turns out, Cold Embrace x Hera Bow will let the crystal fire the beam at the enemy that got hit by the arrow instead - with unfailing aim.
clear dome
so it makes the beam viable?
stoic thicket
Beam on it's own is complete crap. Beam with proper support boons is very viable.
But that goes for a lot of casts, technically.
clear dome
nah most cast are solid on their own, even blade rift
clear dome
but can it kill bosses?
cunning urchin
Anything that does damage can kill bosses.
turbid needle
I mean if I want to I can make it kill a boss
clear dome
well, it takes a long time and support boons
turbid needle
what base cast kills bosses without taking forever?
barren otter
Anything that does damage can kill bosses.
Aphrodite call (not the greater one), dealing 1 damage
turbid needle
its always gonna take forever to kill something with just the base cast what
thats why u like
attack after casting
clear dome
base cast beowulf kills boss easy
turbid needle
🥴
random hull
so it makes the beam viable?
@clear dome The beam has always been viable before, but the combination with Hera Bow makes Cold Embrace properly viable, or so I'd say. Too bad I was already badly damaged when I finally got it together in Elysium, and could only test it for two chambers.
gleaming current
Beam probably has the highest potential among casts aside from ares, but is safer to utilize as well. The only issue is that rapid moving targets will avoid it unless you have 300iq or some duos
turbid needle
deploy it in front of enemy spawns or groups thats how I do
still portal
before I start the fight. Does the shield block ||Hades's|| beams?
still portal
nice. Thanks!
turbid needle
🕵️
cedar nimbus
Am am missing something, or is Lucifer kinda really clunky and just worse than Zagreus' aspect in pretty much every way?
Unless you stand still and rail||heh|| damage into an enemy for a prolonged period of time, but when the hell do you ever except perhaps with Lernie
cunning urchin
You can hold Attack while dashing.
cedar nimbus
I tried that, but with controller Zagreus changes his attack direction to wherever he dashed to.
rare kayak
i mean with proper positioning youre usually in a good spot for at least 6 or 7 shots without having to move, thats a pretty hefty chunk of damage especially with certain boons
turbid needle
its something to get used to
rare kayak
plus the bombs stagger so that can help in unloading a full clip on certain enemies
although i dont think it affects bosses
im assuming thats correct anyway, i usually just lob my bombs in and hope it interrupts something important
forest marsh
I've not had issues keeping Lucifer attack focused on enemies while dashing on controller. Are you not using aim assist?
hearty elbow
Is there a table somewhere of boon base values/upgrade levels per rarity?
broken nexus
Sorry not sure if this is the right place for this question: am trying to grind titan blood - do you think it's better to just keep trying to ramp up heats, or did you all go back and farm from the achievement scrolls first (e.g. the win with every mirror condition)? My time is tight and I want to ramp up my weapons a bit and try different ones, so trying to be efficient
hearty elbow
to be most efficient, you can do both. While you're at low heat, take a weapon you're comfortable with, and maybe swap out a mirror talent or two, you won't miss it (e.g. at low heat, Chaos shield without a second dash is still quite straightforward)
Otherwise, no, the prophecies will not give you nearly enough blood to level up weapons (it takes 15-16 for non-zagreus aspects). You're better off taking Golden Touch and going for an additional Titan Blood (or Diamond, which is 0.5 Blood) in Styx
broken nexus
Thanks!
eternal quartz
Is there a table somewhere of boon base values/upgrade levels per rarity?
@hearty elbow There's this: https://hades.gamepedia.com/Boons. For each god, so you need to find a specific boon.
hearty elbow
Mmmm, nah, I meant by how much each boon improves per Pom
cunning urchin
@hearty elbow I have this for the +% Attack and Special boons. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1P6oZ6i8zmY6s7PM_AkX_g6bjZ601iP_xi9CxzEpujJ4/edit?usp=sharing
cunning urchin
@valid locust Heartbreak Flourish for Beowulf, Heartbreak Strike or Deadly Strike for Excalibur; no idea about Rama, I don't play that.
Best Beowulf build is Charged Flight with Heartbreak Flourish.
tough grotto
cunning urchin
I haven't used it without Charged Flight, and I've only used it on high heat where I only had 1 cast. So I can't really comment on how to make its cast gimmicks work in a build for that.
tough grotto
It's ya boi
hybrid frost
How does Ricochet Fire interact with Hestia?
Dose it duplicate the empowered effect?
hearty elbow
@cunning urchin Thanks, that's what I was looking for
Oh, nvm, close lol, I was looking for information on Thunder Flourish rarities
dry ember
Ricochet Fire and Piercing are about the best thing with Hestia
prisma pilot
When given the rare crop boon in the temple place with that shop and few paths does it count the smaller rooms as encounters or does it only count the whole path then?
unkempt pagoda
each of the small rooms count as encounters
(i believe the only effects that work off encounters but don't work off the small styx rooms are pierced butterfly and lambent plume)
unkempt pagoda
rare crop is great early on in styx
prisma pilot
I got it right at the shop
Quite a lucky run overall
Third boon was the duo of wine guy and poseidon
and stuff just snowballed from there
cunning urchin
@void fjord Malphon has a 5-hit combo—not 6.
void fjord
oh sorry my b
cunning urchin
So you get 5 + 10 + 15 + 20 = 50 extra base damage per 5-hit combo.
cunning urchin
It doesn't count. But it's been awhile that I tested it.
void fjord
hmm thanks modified it
cunning urchin
Maybe you could also split your feedback. I'd upvote clarifying the description, but not the buff you're asking for.
untold vortex
same, the buff you're asking for has the potential to outright break athena attack
void fjord
hmm okie
cunning urchin
Thanks!
cunning urchin
@hearty elbow I've added values for the flat damage Attack and Special boons now. If you find any errors, let me know. 
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1P6oZ6i8zmY6s7PM_AkX_g6bjZ601iP_xi9CxzEpujJ4/edit?usp=sharing
rare kayak
another one thats good in styx is side hustle, from hermes
if youre not playing tight deadline it might be worth to full clear with it
just to buy a diamond or blood
oddly enough, it triggers in the main styx room each time you reenter it from side chambers for even more money
another thing to take note of in styx is that i believe keepsakes level with small rooms as well
so if you dont have tight deadline and your run is pretty decent you can use that to level a keepsake very quickly
gusty elm
i was working on my fated lists yesterday and the only non-legendary/duo boon i was still missing was aphro's blown kiss, which i had been trying to get in previous runs too
i finally got it, but look how many other boons of hers it took before it showed up (and this includes multiple rerolls!): https://imgur.com/a/vKGe497
cunning urchin
RNG will be RNG. 
gusty elm
funny thing is i got offered it again without even wanting it (was running rail and only took aphro cast to replace later) in the very next run
weak rivet
turbid needle
tfw you got the list before bloodprice 🕵️
errant narwhal
lol same... but those increased rewards though 
gusty elm
Here's the progress I've made since noting down what I need and how to get it like 5 runs ago: https://imgur.com/z6sfIJg
hearty elbow
@cunning urchin That's amazing thank you!
(if it does anything) Is there a name for the blue-ish shield that forms around Zag after taking x damage or hits? I actually have no idea if it's even a mechanical thing or just visual
cunning urchin
It makes you invulnerable. The pact Personal Liability in Hell mode removes it.
hearty elbow
Oh, I see. Thanks. Is that the only effective difference of playing in Hell Mode?
cunning urchin
That pact and HL1 LC1 JS1 CP1 are always turned on.
So the minimum heat is 5, and always with those pacts.
hearty elbow
CP1? Harsh
cunning urchin
You can collect bounties up to 25 Heat.
static jacinth
Aspect of Chiron is excellent with Lighting Flourish, right?
There isn't some hidden bad interaction there?
hearty elbow
Only once per usage
And even if it wasn't, there is an internal cooldown of .2s so it wouldn't be amazing
I wish they gave Chiron something closer to Rama special's speed. Since the entire aspect is based around it
static jacinth
That's terribly disappointing.
So what -is- good with it?
Just normal heartbreak flourish and anything that gives more special?
Artemis crits?
gleaming current
Pretty much ig
Haven't tested support fire but it likely procs at same cooldown as lightning
Curse of Agony is quite nifty
static jacinth
Dionysus still get it?
Curse of Agony is basically the same there though.
I guess barring the boon that stacks it.
gleaming current
Meh, I meant the attack
static jacinth
Oh, well sure.
cunning urchin
Support Fire doesn't have any cooldown I'm aware of.
Thunder Flourish procs once every 200 msec per enemy. At a good angle, you can proc it multiple times on the same enemy with Chiron's Volley, but it's not reliable.
With Drunken Flourish, you cap your stacks after one Volley, so there's no good reason to follow up with another Volley on the same enemy until the stacks wear off.
static jacinth
So I guess I'll just go for Hunter's Flourish then.
gilded knoll
Time to stack explosive cold procs!
static jacinth
Or just let the fates decide.
cunning urchin
Deadly Flourish is the name.
static jacinth
Deadly, right. Sorry!
cunning urchin
Using primarily your Attack for damage and your Volley only to apply Hangover might be good with a good build.
static jacinth
Just snagged Concentrated Volley and Dio showed up.
So I guess that's where I'm going.
barren otter
How many stacks of hangover does Dionysis call apply? Just had a run where I got the Aphro + Dio duo and the only thing that could apply hangover was my call, never seen it applying more than 4 stacks. I guess the only way for that duo to work with the call would just be using the greater call only.
barren otter
I know all hangover boons stack to 5 (and 8 to weak enemies with duo), I meant how many "hits" does the call and greater call do?
hearty elbow
Concentrated + Relentless with Chiron is legit.
And that's about it lol. Rama is much better for special spam
For Dio*
hearty elbow
Yeah there's no arguing that, it's really fun. If only you could get Charged Volley... (It's literally mindbending that you can get it with Rama but not Chiron)
gleaming current
Support Fire doesn't have any cooldown I'm aware of.
@cunning urchin Just tested, it definitely has something. Each special only launches 2 support arrows at most
gleaming current
Yeah, most likely the same treatment
Which is rather sad for chiron because it isn't overly potent without hammers, and not using mostly special there means it's better to take zagreus aspect
static jacinth
Oh no, the game crashed.
hearty elbow
Yeah Chiron's in an awkward place. Rama is better for non-percent based specials and Zag is better for flexibility
hearty elbow
Since Charged Volley is kind of amazing, and only one aspect wants it
hearty elbow
Sorry 😦 I don't think that's actually happened to me. Were you able to ascertain why?
static jacinth
I tabbed out and the game crashed.
I wish you could look up boon requirements in the codex so I wouldn't have to tab out.
hearty elbow
I wish the Codex didn't choose some whacked out place to keep your cursor and that there was a way to fast scroll through it
static jacinth
Bleh. It was a really good run too. I had the duo boon for Dio and Aphrodite. I was playing smoothly.
cunning urchin
@barren otter Lesser Call Dionysus' Aid does 7 pulses that can apply Hangover.
barren otter
Thanks
hearty elbow
Not sure why Dio's Aid doesn't get more love. Holy cow that thing chunks, single target or AoE.
Way more reliably than Zeus
barren otter
So if all the pulses hit, it's not bad with Aphro duo
cunning urchin
What do you mean doesn't get more love?
hearty elbow
KInd of depends on how easily you apply weak, but yeah, it's not that bad
Shrug, I've seen a lot of people sleep on it. There was a conversation here maybe last week and someone put it dead last in Calls
cunning urchin
I think everyone doing high heat is aware it's one of the best calls in the game.
gleaming current
Everyone doing high heat is like 2% of players tbf
hearty elbow
I think even 2% is a bold estimation
I think it's a worthwhile thing for SGG to think about that Dio's call "feels" bad even though it does a billion damage to everything. It's not quite as visceral as say Zeus' call even if they're functionally quite similar.
static jacinth
Zeus call isn't even that great though.
cunning urchin
I don't know. I've been around here for a bit, and most people seem to be aware that Dionysus' Aid is pretty good.
Zeus' Aid is great.
gleaming current
Zeus call is likely undertuned to accommodate for all the buffs zeus has for himself, like double strike and high voltage
hearty elbow
Zeus' Aid is a lot more conditional than Dio's, but yeah it's good. Any free damage source that doesn't require the full charge to be good is great
static jacinth
Yeah, with his synergies it does work. But on its own, I feel like it's on the lower end.
gleaming current
Dio's aid is great, just feels a bit washed out ig
static jacinth
Calls overall are just good though.
gleaming current
sighs in artemis call
cunning urchin
Well, it's not in the lower end in terms of damage even without any other boons. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gm04kroX-p7lMNSmNcFdKCw4mmff-5i83QsKVwOBNDA/edit?usp=sharing
hearty elbow
Yeah... why is hers soooooo bad
gleaming current
Probably to prevent crits going loose
static jacinth
It's probably balanced around being ranged.
gleaming current
Well, it has 5 marks, and greater is generally 2x effect, so it does make sense...
hearty elbow
3 -> 12 would make more sense to me, and actually be in line with the rest of the Calls (maybe tweak damage down a hair to balance)
gleaming current
But even greater is rather underwhelming most of the time
I think aphro's common greater aid deals more damage on average than artemis epic greater
Even tho aphro is for charm
hearty elbow
Aphro's CC's bosses so no complaints
static jacinth
Heroic Greater too.
cunning urchin
Her Greater Call is pretty good in crit builds, and she already does a ton of damage with her Attack and Special boons that work with almost any build. It's fine if her Call isn't as great.
static jacinth
Yeah.
hearty elbow
Yeah, I'm not asking for it to be the best, I'm just asking for the non-Greater calls to not be teeny wet noodles that hit 1 thing
gleaming current
Well, tbf ares normal call is teeny noodle speen
static jacinth
It might be better if the arrows spread out and didn't fizzle if their target died, and retargeted or something.
cunning urchin
lol I just use it for the boss if I happen to get it and sell it after the region.
static jacinth
Ares normal call is good for clutch damage negation.
hearty elbow
It at least one shots casters even with DC up
gleaming current
And steals your main attack for duration
cunning urchin
Ares normal call is good for clutch damage negation.
You can use any Call for i-frames.
hearty elbow
I mean, I've used it to clutch out a lot of awkward situations against Asphodel bullet hell casters
I'm not arguing that it's the best or anything, but it has clear usages at normal Call, which Arty's does not (past the iframe thing)
cunning urchin
Hers pierces.
Can't be blocked.
If you happen to need 100 damage to kill off a Greatshield that blocks or Theseus . . . well, there you go.
With a good roll, you might even do 300 damage.
turbid needle
posi call has always been my fav its funny
cunning urchin
It can also backstab for extra damage.
turbid needle
and now you get rip tide too 💞
cunning urchin
I love Poseidon's Aid now that it's no longer bugged after a dash.
hearty elbow
Does the cast backstab Duo.... do anything? I assume (pray) that's multiplicative at least
If it's additive, I've answered my own question. "Nope"
unkempt pagoda
broken nexus
I know there's no clear answer for this - but how many gods roughly do you focus on a run - 2/3?
unkempt pagoda
was originally going for a freezing vortex build but i couldn't pass up the trade
cunning urchin
I generally consider the Duo Boon potential and overall synergy for the gods I'm seeing.
E.g., if I have a Doom build, and I see Lady Artemis, there's usually not much point in going for her because their Duo applies to Slicing Shot—but going for Slicing Shot will open his t2 Bladerift boon pool, which makes it harder to get the Doom boons I wanted . . .
broken nexus
Thanks is there an easy map somewhere to show the boon trees and dependencies - it's something I don't really understand yet
cunning urchin
Yeah, check the pinned messages.
main osprey
Some on the wiki, though not all of the visuals are updated
Ooh?
Oh!!!
How did I not see that those were updated??
hearty elbow
Most (non-Approval Process) runs typically go in the format of 2 core, 1 defensive (typically Aphro or Athena) and 1/2 "support" (whatever the run forces on you)
But honestly the mentality you should be going for is probably "what the is the least I need to make my idea work" then go with the flow
broken nexus
wow these tress are so complex - how the hell do you hold these in your heads??
unkempt pagoda
hundreds of hours of playing
main osprey
Also that
hearty elbow
it's pretty easily generalizable to:
Tier 1 (core)
Tier 1 (secondary)
Tier 2 (unlocked with any Tier 1)
Legendary (usually unlocked from 1 or 2 tier 2)
Most dueo (unless they specifically modify a particular ability) require any 2 generic tier 1 cores from the respesctive Gods.
cunning urchin
Most of it is pretty straightforward once you know what the boons do. Like, any Doom boon will open up the Doom t2 pool, any Bladerift boon will open up the Bladerift t2 pool, any crit boon will open up the crit t2 pool, etc.
hearty elbow
"cores" are usable abilities. Your Attack, Special, Cast, Dash, Call
broken nexus
@hearty elbow do you usually count the defensive as one of your core? i.e. if you have Athena presumably you aren't looking for a second defensive - but sounds like you're ok with 4 if that is what the runs throws at you. I was told only aim for 2 max
hearty elbow
Yeah, usually, because Athena and Aphro make excellent offensive cores as well
cunning urchin
4 or sometimes even more than that is perfectly fine.
hearty elbow
So unless you're going for a duo build, Aphro and Athena (and Artemis) are great general cores
broken nexus
Ah I see so you are focussing on 5 boons to work with - spread over 2 to 4 gods
and presumably you aim for cores that match your weapon / playstyle (generally)
cunning urchin
I mainly just focus on Attack or Special > Divine Dash > any good Call lol.
- boons from Lord Hermes.
broken nexus
Secondary question - do you prioritise hermes to avoid getting it later, or avoid it if the other option is better for this run?
cunning urchin
Unless I have Divine Strike on melee, then I'll probably go for Hunter Dash instead of Divine Dash, but I won't say no to Divine Dash if I see it first.
Depends on what the other option is and if I have more than one dash.
hearty elbow
The priority list for what to pick for core damage is: Duo > Crit > Flat Damage. The reason Aphro and Athena are so good is that they fit into any of the 3 categories cleanly thanks to crit
duo boons and huge % bonuses
cunning urchin
If I have only 1 dash, Lord Hermes is basically top priority.
hearty elbow
That was a bit confusing, what I meant by that is:
"Do I want to do a Duo build"
"Do I want to go for crit"
"Do I want to go for a generalist build"
cunning urchin
I'd much rather have Heartbreak Strike for damage than Deadly Strike.
broken nexus
Thanks sounds like I need to get a lot more familiar with duos
hearty elbow
Most are very fun, it's not a hardship 🙂
cunning urchin
Duo > Crit > Flat Damage
I don't really agree with this at all as a generalization. Duo Boons aren't essential. Deadly Strike or Flourish can be a lot worse than boons that add flat damage like Curse of Agony or Thunder Flourish depending on the aspect.
hearty elbow
The priority list was for questions you need to ask yourself in the beginning of a run, which affects how you pick things
I'm not saying Duo builds are end all be all, but they're the most important to consider if you want to go for them
broken nexus
A bit of a digression. Is there a prereq to get the sisyphus companion to proc - I've been staring at that lock for forever now with nothing happening?
hearty elbow
It's not just the picking the 2 keepsakes, it's stuff like what you mentioned. If I say, want to go for Aphro/Ares, whcih is a Doom duo, I should avoid taking Blade Rift if possible to maximize my chances.
I think you need to max friendship?
And go through a set number of dialogue
cunning urchin
The wiki has info on that. Somebody in #h1-story-discussion will probably know any details beyond that.
hearty elbow
Artemis, Aphro, Athena
broken nexus
thanks
hearty elbow
You want all 3, depending on if you have base crit or not, you should use Artemis for the core, but you can also get crit from Deadly Reversal (Artemis/Athena Duo)
cunning urchin
Nemesis Aspect can crit, and the Zagreus Aspect of Coronacht can crit.
broken nexus
thanks both
hearty elbow
Some aspects benefit immensely from Athena attack (because of deflect) like Guan Yu and any Fist. So you can leave yourself open to get crit by just taking a random Artemis core boon (even if you don't intend to use it)
Likewise, virtually any attack build benefits from Aphrodite attack and Athena dash (the best dash in the game, period).. So If you take a random Artemis boon, you leave yourself open into a backdoor-crit build.
Aphrodite Attack has the highest bonuses of all the Gods
cunning urchin
So you can leave yourself open to get crit by just taking a random Artemis core boon (even if you don't intend to use it)
Divine Strike + Hunter Dash or Deadly Strike + Divine Dash usually for Deadly Reversal builds.
main osprey
the power of money :D
main osprey
I mean, yeah? I was doing a No Boons run
gilded knoll
Ah I see
broken berry
Money = power 
hearty elbow
Which one is that?
main osprey
the one that spawns a buncha elite rakers
hearty elbow
lmao oh yeah, that one. Are the rakers new? I don't remember them before Blood Price
hearty elbow
I find those more aggravating honestly. They don't do anything 95% of the time then just attack with barely any animation, especially at FO2
broken berry
Two Rakers can stun lock you if they sync up their attack rhythms and I hate them
hearty elbow
Yeah, but for whatever reason that doesn't bother me as much. They're lethally dangerous so you just stay away forever. I hate them when I'm using Sword though
main osprey
I just walked into Lernie with 2 DDs and about 150 max health, didn't even get past the second wave of heads
to be fair, I'm doing a hard challenge run
but they're seriously hard to deal with
hearty elbow
Skelly trivializes the fight if you put him in the dock corner
main osprey
...true. I should run Skelly more often for these challenge runs
broken berry
Wait does Skelly take friendly damage from you?
I swapped him out for Dusa and Bouldy because I was scared of that
main osprey
he does, but only 1 per hit (or sometimes 2/3 if you crit)
hearty elbow
I heard there's some cheese you can do with Skelly against Dad too, in the back alcove corner, but i haven't been able to get it to work (well obviously it works but it doesn't do anything particularly interesting)
hearty elbow
Is there an audio cue for Wells of Charon?
main osprey
other than the gates falling, I think a small ambient noise?
hearty elbow
Hmm, I guess i'll make a feedback thing about making one as distinctive as fish or Chaos (does Erebus gate have a chime?)
main osprey
similar noise to chaos?
I think?
definitely an ambient noise
but yeah, a distinctive noise for wells (and pools!) would be nice
hearty elbow
It adds to the TD issue in Elysium that some of the rooms are massive and have gold urns and Wells/Pools in weird corners
gleaming current
Pretty sure erebus has burst of flames sound
Also would really like if those sounds played before I already dashed to the door and entered it
astral hill
Does using the spin attack on spear and dashing right before releasing it count as a dash strike? Would Artemis dash boon affect it?
main osprey
I don't think so
tepid ridge
Pretty sure not, I remember people around here talking about this
astral hill
OK thanks
unkempt pagoda
dash strikes are defined abilities that go dash -> attack (and, in the fists' case, also dash -> special)
any interaction where the dash comes second in the combo (such as the spear's dash spin) is simply a special technique, not a proper dash strike
cosmic jacinth
good zag pulverisingf shield combo?
zag aspect dae hammer with pulverising blow what is good to combo with that
unkempt pagoda
not poseidon, i wouldn't think
static jacinth
Honestly most attacks would be fine?
unkempt pagoda
probably just any of the +% damage gods, so aphrodite, artemis, demeter, athena
doom could probably work here too, but you're trying to capitalize on the doubled base damage
cosmic jacinth
aphro or arte
static jacinth
If you get attack speed from hermes, Dio and Zeus would work fine too. In a different way.
But Athena is probably the best one for a combination of safety and damage.
cosmic jacinth
would be a more instant doom tbh if u had zeus legend
so aphro as starting rarity epic then change into the heroic for athena attack?
sound like a good idea?
untold vortex
what weapon are you using?
static jacinth
I mean, if you get that, sure? I don't know if it's that easy 😄
cosmic jacinth
zag aspect dae hammer with pulverising blow what is good to combo with that
@cosmic jacinth
gleaming current
Sounds like rather big rng as swaps come quite more rarely on my practice
cosmic jacinth
or ima try getting that
XD
lol
well aphro rarity epic is easy to get at start for attack
static jacinth
Is it?
cosmic jacinth
and it is the best for attack so win win
static jacinth
Well if you can get it, then great!
cosmic jacinth
i think i have max rarity for rares on mirror
static jacinth
I wish I got epic attacks each time too.
cosmic jacinth
well i usually get them if i use the keepsake
static jacinth
But I invested in the bonus legendary chance to get my prophecies finished, and now I need to save up 8888 darkness.
So no bonus epic chance for a bit.
cosmic jacinth
i use legendary as well but the chance from mirror on rares is quite good if u use keepsake its 80 percent for rares and better or 20 percent for rares and better
if u get what im saying
cosmic jacinth
also im stubborn af
so if i dont see epic attack i dont take XD
bc it is early gaame
but if it late game i got no choice
Xd right
though sad when u get all commons with keep sake and maxed out rare chance oof i just remembered it is 40 percent of rares from mirror right?
gleaming current
Tbh currently using +10% for big chamber rewards (boons, etc.) and +20% epic boons. Rare ones come with keepsakes and especially with miniboss boons, epics are a lot less common naturally
Also yeah that mirror upgrade is 40% rares
gleaming current
big rewards, rather
cosmic jacinth
ooh
u thought u meant miniboss chambers since they give u great stuff
hmm i got update for hades
was there any recent ones
cosmic jacinth
soo trying my first run of posidon aspect sword
poseidon
zeus lightning rod or dmg on dislodge what do i go for first?
tepid ridge
Prob dislodge? More instant damage
tepid ridge
Lightning rod would require you to not pick up dislodged casts, which isn’t the point of Poseidon aspect unless you want to synergize with damage increase but I don’t know if the aspect increases the duo’s strikes
cosmic jacinth
XD
true
this build scary against bosses?
is ur cast can crit and does 140 dmg
tepid ridge
In my experience, it’s not bad at all. It feels pretty easy to tunnel vision the dislodge damage and get hit though when you could be being conservative and safer with casts from afar but 🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️
cosmic jacinth
XD
any thing dislodge related to hammer upgrades?
like any upgrades with hammer that improve a dislodge recast build?
tepid ridge
Not directly afaik, but the sword does have faster special upgrades I think. Don’t remember what they’re called though.
tepid ridge
I mean, hammers will spawn as room rewards so shops are nice but not necessary for build growth other than boons. I wish dislodge was used more as a keyword/design space. It feels like a magic the gathering keyword that is underutilized atm
cosmic jacinth
XD
XD
this is op
except against multi enemys with tracking
i died to hydra
partly because of the many many many ad ons
uhm what is the best cast not including tracking ones
i mean like the one from arte
because it killed me last time
desert oak
Best chaos shield builds?
main osprey
Athena, Ares, Zeus special are all good, also Dio or Dem
Charged Shot lets you control your mobility more
My personal go-to build is
Charged Shot + Minotaur Rush
Artemis' Attack
Athena's Special
cunning urchin
@main osprey I have a new challenge for you. 
main osprey
Mmhmm
I'm listening
Also I almost finished the 16 heat No Boons, died to the Dire Bother, of all things
cunning urchin
What's your favorite weapon?
main osprey
Shield or Spear, probably
desert oak
It doesn't seem like I can always get the right boons or I'm having bad luck
Is it just a matter of holding keepsakes for endgame build and switching between realms?
main osprey
Keepsakes are important for the shield for getting your damage. Base is pretty low, so getting boosts is important
rare kayak
i usually go god > god > god/acorn > acorn
in terms of keepsakes
theres not really “right” boons, you can clear based off of pure core boons alone
but theres obviously some duos and some legendaries worth chasing for
main osprey
On shield, you can almost always go for the 3rd god, and it's usually really good to
desert oak
And is it always best to keep one god tied to attack and another god tied to special?
rare kayak
generally i prefer that yeah
main osprey
You almost definitely need a special for chaos shield
rare kayak
gives diversity for the sake of privileged status
main osprey
I use attack and special very differently, so it usually makes sense to have different gods
rare kayak
its really a run to run basis
main osprey
Utility/non-% boon on special (Athena, Ares, Dem, Dio, Zeus), and high damage on attack
Generally works well for Chaos
dusk lily
Silly question, do armored enemies count as undamaged while they havent been armor broken or only when they havent been hit? Do armor broken enemies count as undamage?
main osprey
It's only while their health bar is full, afaik. So before you hit them, and the first hit after you break their armor, iirc
dusk lily
Is there any real reason to go for Fiery Presence over the backstab mirror talent if thats the case?
dusk lily
thnx
turbid needle
It's any damage.
dusk lily
Good to know
random hull
A real reason to use Fiery Presence is when using a high damage single attack like Hestia's Empowered Shot or certain charged attacks, and not wanting to be bothered with maneuvering behind the enemy first. Oneshotting enemies or their armor has its uses. Fiery Presence also stacks with Chaos' Assault and Black Shawl if you want to go down that road.
I'd still say that Shadow Presence is better 95% of the time. Especially since it has far more utility in boss fights.
turbid needle
doesn't shadow also stack with chaos and shawl
random hull
It does, with Chaos' Ambush, respectively.
turbid needle
yeah...rip fiery
random hull
I pointed that part out to say that it's possible to build around FP, but yeah, it is really situational.
turbid needle
okay
random hull
Using Black Shawl is underwhelming anyway.
Eris Bangle is also a wasted well purchase slot very often.
static jacinth
Somestimes you need more damage for rooms. It's basically free so I imagine you'd consider it decently often in a speedrun.
random hull
Perhaps. It just pales in comparison to Nemesis Crest the same way FP and SP relate to each other.
I guess that's reflected in the different prices, but taking a slot is an opportunity cost of some sort.
static jacinth
Part of the way this sort of game works is that every option can't be the best at all times.
random hull
True that.
It's just that the discussion about the "undamaged" condition has already been going on for quite some time, and calls for a buff of some sort pop up here and there.
static jacinth
SPG are aware of it at this point I suppose.
Like, I can see the merits in Fiery presence well enough.
cunning urchin
I think Eris Bangle is too expensive when you really need it.
Perhaps. It just pales in comparison to Nemesis Crest the same way FP and SP relate to each other.
Yeah, I agree about Fated Persuasion vis-à-vis S—Skelly Points?
random hull
I do like the idea of Skelly Points.
static jacinth
I want a tracker for each time skelly has exploded.
Both in the courtyard and while being summoned with Ribi.
gray moon
cunning urchin
Please stop with these bad initialisms for everything. 
surreal rover
at this rate the speech on this channel will be fully abbreviated
static jacinth
No more initials. WRITE WORDS
cunning urchin
We use initialisms for pacts and defiances. Sometimes for Fated Persuasion and Fated Authority. Trying to make any others work has just never caught on (thankfully). Just becomes too cryptic at that point.
hearty elbow
A clear line for when initialisms get bad is when there are multiple in the same category that have the same initials. in this case, FP.
Also, I don't mind PS and FF, since they're so commonly discussed (confusingly, as it should be relatively obvious when to take one over the other).
random hull
It must be doubly confusing for players of other languages.
broken nexus
how much do you value the pool offer that increases the rarity of the next boon you find. Is it generally worh thte 70gs?
static jacinth
Depends on what boons you're expecting to get soon.
random hull
As long as you already run the rarity increasing boons on the mirror, 70 is a bit high. If you go for the other mirror talents, or have Routine Inspection, it is worth it, especially if you can make it take effect in a miniboss chamber.
||Apparently there is also extra dialogue from Theseus if you carry it into the Elysium arena.||
broken nexus
Thanks
cunning urchin
Also, I don't mind PS and FF
I, too, like the PlayStation and Final Fantasy.
The Yarn of Ariadne is great if you know what you're looking for and have a good chance of making it happen.
Like if you can guarantee a rare or epic Dionysus' Aid, for example.
Unfortunately, I've no idea if it affects the chance for a Duo Boon or Legendary to be offered. I suspect no.
static jacinth
Hmm... What would people advocate with Aspect of Hestia Rail?
I've been using it, and I feel like I'm building wrong.
It feels kinda bad come late game. Though I'm still winning, I feel like I've made a mistake.
gleaming current
Probably deadly strike for them crits
random hull
Hunter Dash gives extra damage.
As for hammers, Piercing Fire is best, followed by Explosive Fire. They are incompatible, sadly.
Aside from Deadly Strike, Heartbreak Strike or Tempest Strike are good options. The latter will punt enemies all over the place, so it has downsides.
gleaming current
Is there a reason for Tempest Strike? It has quite low damage bonus and kb is unneeded
dry ember
Hmm... What would people advocate with Aspect of Hestia Rail?
Heartbreak Strike, Deadly Strike, or really, any plus %damage boon for your attacks. In fact, Hunter Dash is really good on Hestia but you need to manage your dash strike, which is not hard but takes a bit to get used to.
static jacinth
I'll keep hunter dash in mind for next time.
dry ember
Is there a reason for Tempest Strike? It has quite low damage bonus and kb is unneeded
Well Tempest Strike is more like hey I got offered it, might as well take it.
static jacinth
I actually had a Heroic Deadly strike here, right at the end.
dry ember
Funnily enough I cleared 42 heat on Hestia with Tempest Strike and Hunter Dash
So Tempest Strike is def viable, though not ideal.
static jacinth
Tempest Strike feels all right when I get it. It applies that bonus damage to bosses boon too, right?
broken nexus
The sword is easily my toughest weapon to crack. Any suggestions on which aspect is prob the best to plough blood into?
static jacinth
Hmm...
gleaming current
Nemesis is stable bet
broken nexus
no how do you do that?
static jacinth
All of the non-Zagreus aspects are pretty good. What part are you struggling with?
gleaming current
Arthur is oddly specific but it's also not regular sword gameplay so it may hit right spot for you
dry ember
Let me see if I can find a vid
broken nexus
I guess it's just being so close all the time - i struggle with crowds sometimes if not a good cast
dry ember
Do you mind Final Boss spoiler?
random hull
Poseidon gives bonus cast damage with no strings attached, so you can mostly forgo attacking and rely entirely on something like Hunting Blades or Trippy Shot.
dry ember
@broken nexus look at the top screen
basically if you spam dash and strike at the same time
you can cancel a lot of animation
and do a lot of damage
broken nexus
great thanks will check this out
dry ember
also how many dash strike you can spam at once depends on the amount of dash you have
if you have 2 dashes then do 2x double input, 3 then 3, etc. if you spam too much Zag will just kinda stand there
that's why you can special in between the gap to fill in some damage and knockback for safety.
untold quiver
@broken nexus Posidon blade with Artimis right out the gate is how I usually play sword (12 heat now I think) the cast is great damage (and bypasses shields) the call is super nice, dash strike combines well with any damage boosting God. Exit Wounds (which you won't Always get but you get alot ) really let's you smoke hard targets
boreal light
i have something interesting to report.
during my current run with shield (Zeus aspect) i have the dodge perk. spamming special, it gets a dodge prompt on return. did anyone else had that?
also, if it is a bug - where do i report it?
main osprey
You can report in-game with f10!
And yeah, that sounds like it might be a bug
Does it happen even if you've finished an encounter?
main osprey
And it's still giving the dodge popup?
boreal light
i can stream you in vc, if you want
main osprey
Then try and hit f10 while the dodge text is on the screen
Ah, they don't have a VC
I trust you, no worries
:3
boreal light
this is a different kind of game... timing dodge and f10.
main osprey
Hahaha, yeah
I know that feeling. If you can't get it quickly, don't stress it
The devs will still look into it
gilded knoll
dodge prompt?
boreal light
mhm
as if i was attacked, but i can't be, because it's my attack that's coming back to me.
gilded knoll
Zeus isn't happy I guess, it happens when you just stand still and do it o.O
boreal light
yes
and while moving too
all you need for that, i think, is zeus aspect and any sort of dodge.
gilded knoll
Wow, I'll see if that happens to me
main osprey
You sent the bug report in?
boreal light
i found it to be proked more if you let it fly for like... half a second
yes, i did
took me a bit
main osprey
That's a weird one, tbh xD
boreal light
i don't think it's game breaking
main osprey
I've found a lot of shield bugs, but not as many on the special
boreal light
but it's certainly weird
main osprey
Oh, you got it too?!
Nice
That means it's a consistent one, easier to fix (ideally)
cosmic jacinth
what cast is best for the beowolf aspect level 1
main osprey
I've heard good things about Dio and Ares?
gilded knoll
It's when you hit special as youcatch the shield with a dodge proc up I believe
boreal light
huh
gilded knoll
You can recreate it using Ruthless dash
boreal light
maybe
maybe it registers an oncoming shield like an enemy projectile, but since it's not it still tries to dodge that?
cosmic jacinth
is it me or are dio and ares debuffs bad
cosmic jacinth
cause doom seems pretty bad
boreal light
dio is incredible if you can reapply it multiple times
boreal light
so spear/rail/charon's aspect bow with dio is insane
cosmic jacinth
without any other dio boons
cosmic jacinth
wait doom is better than dio right
main osprey
Ares is good even on faster weapons, I don't remember who it was but someone had a really solid explanation for why it's still good
gilded knoll
You can get the dodge consistently if you let the Zeus shield go like .1-.2 seconds away and recall and hit special as you catch it lol
main osprey
And no one god is better than another
boreal light
doom? no. doom is good for hit and rrun tactics
gilded knoll
hit and run? Athena duo wants to say hi
main osprey
Some are just more situational
cosmic jacinth
well aphro is just better for attack percents
boreal light
solo doom, unless you have stacking doom
because aphy only weakens people. and when you're taking 40 dmg a shot, aphro is not particularly great
hearty elbow
Am I doing something wrong, or is it kind of weird on controller to navigate to your boons in the select menu? It feels like the cursor defaults somewhere weird on the right edge of the pacts or mirror talents
I'm bad at recognizing them by picture so it's something I fumble with a lot, particularly since Select doesn't pause TD
dry ember
Hangover should thematically ignore armor.
gilded knoll
Would be nice....
hearty elbow
I mean, it "kinda" does already 😛 It's one of the only damage types that isn't boned by a sliver of armor left on an enemy
dry ember
yeah true
magic dagger
what are the wurms in asphodel that burrow and fire lernie projectiles called?
they're ridiculous with shifter
random hull
Dracons
I can only imagine. It's hard enough to predict where they will pop up already.
Whack-a-mole without the holes.
untold quiver
Do the flame wheels that have the blue heart still die when they explode?
gleaming current
Yeah
grizzled oyster
I played the first time with poseidon sword and his cast in a cast build. It was pretty fun.
Which casts are also often used for cast builds?
gilded knoll
I feel like all the casts are useable
untold quiver
I use Artimis, Ares is also good if you get the positioning right, although I think if you want to do a blade rift build Achilles spear is better
turbid needle
people usually go for duo casts bc those are the most powerful
gilded knoll
Dio/Zeus Dio/Dem have a nice festive fog duo
grizzled oyster
Thx^^ I will try these out sometimes.
gilded knoll
Pos/Dem is nifty as well
grizzled oyster
I really liked the artemis/ares duo before.
gilded knoll
Hunting Blades ye
brisk bough
does curse of drowning work with hera bow?
main osprey
the wiki doesn't say it doesn't, so maybe
untold quiver
I advise for any cast duo.....duo in particular but especially the cast duos.....get used to using the base .....you get the duo most of the time maybe even a lot but it's not a lock, and I've gotten say hunting blades in the last room with a boon for it in Styx
Especially duos/hammers that wildly change how thjgs function (like hunting blades)
random hull
Hera Bow simply moves the point of origin of a cast from Zagreus to the arrow impact. That should work with Curse of Drowning. That's one of the Duos I haven't got yet, so I can't say more about the effects.
untold quiver
I don't think I've ever gone for that cast in the first place to rest it lol I'm usually Dio keepsake -> trippy shot
Can you get hunting blades with Beowulf's Shield?
turbid needle
oh really
main osprey
it's larger and doesn't move very far
turbid needle
last time I tried it didnt seem to work
main osprey
oh wait
turbid needle
maybe that was a bug
main osprey
hunting
random hull
I'm currently experimenting with Hera (it's my favorite weapon which I'm not good at), and it does surprising things with casts. Sure, triple Ice Wine Scintillating Feast get's the job done (I call that setup Bottle Rocket), but it can do so much more. Like giving Cold Embrace perfect homing.
turbid needle
also curse of drowning cant be loaded up iirc it just automaticially causes pulses around zag
kind fiber
@brisk bough Curse of drowning works with hera bow, but hera's bow can only trigger one curse of drowning cast per attack
So its pretty terrible
Theres also the fact that it doesn't radiate around the target, it radiates around you
dire wedge
I'm currently experimenting with Hera (it's my favorite weapon which I'm not good at), and it does surprising things with casts. Sure, triple Ice Wine Scintillating Feast get's the job done (I call that setup Bottle Rocket), but it can do so much more. Like giving Cold Embrace perfect homing.
Imma try that. Just finished a Hera run focusing Crush Shot and Parting Shot. Judging when to release so that all the Crush Shots hit was kinda fun.
The thinner the enemies the more inconsistent it became. By Elysium I had to treat it like Beowulf
gleaming current
Question:
Level 4 epic Curse of Agony deals 172 damage by Doom effect
Merciful End adds additional 50
Is there any reason why Doom will deal 291 damage with that? Privileged Status, maybe?
That or double edge are my current bets, but neither really make sense
unkempt pagoda
doom benefits off of privileged
gleaming current
Ah, I see
Calcs confirm it: 172 x 1.4 + 50 = 290.8
Seems a bit of a sudden interaction given most sources don't affect these numbers
Helpful to know, ty
unkempt pagoda
if doom didn’t benefit off of privileged, there would be absolutely no point of taking ares on it
gleaming current
That's also true lel
Ares by himself is a tad wonky already with those numbers that don't scale well
pseudo stream
which twin fists aspects are cool? haha
solemn pumice
I prefer talos. Shame the pull doesn’t work on bosses
pseudo stream
Talos seems cool, I don't uppercut much generally tbh
that said, it also looks like it needs all 15 TB before it's worth it?
unkempt pagoda
damn, got to hades phase 2 on 32 heat, died because stupid mistakes
solemn pumice
I don’t have any TB on talos. I just use the pull to blaze through the non-boss chambers so I can hurry up and get rekt by bosses
robust shale
good damage build for the cannon weapon?
most of my damage from last run came from the 3 consecutive specials weapon upgrade
my attacks were super weak and I couldn't aim well (that's my fault)
i as running it with artemis and hades
but the damage is not ideal
spring turret
flat dmg effects like lightning strike (zeus attack) and support fire work very well with any rail aspect. Normal rail aspects dont do that well with percentage based dmg gods (athena, aphrodite, demeter, artemis) but lucifer can take good advantage of them since the dmg ramps up.
hidden pike
Zeus works well on it
Demeter too I think, especially if you combo with the cold explosion
robust shale
hmmm gonna try that out tomorrow
cosmic jacinth
can i ask if i am able to win with something with specific circumstances
analog sail
What do you mean
cosmic jacinth
i have had 3 hours of sleep
i was up 20-23 hours yesterday and i woke up at like 8:30 am it is now 11:20 pm
is it possible for me to win a run with maxed zag shield aspect on heat 7
XD
cosmic jacinth
dash spear is soo bad without point
gleaming current
Sounds possible but utterly unneeded to attempt
Being awake for a day straight is equal to being drunk
cosmic jacinth
rly never knew since im not old enough
cedar nimbus
Dodge lets you avoid any instant of damage, right?
Isn't it then realistically pretty much the same as damage mitigation?
broken nexus
So with the lucifer gun - do things not stack - i.e. you get only one proc of an ares boon if you hold the beam??
random hull
That's an Ares problem, not an L problem.
You can stack poison or chill just fine.
Doom cannot be stacked unless you have the separate boon Dire Misfortune.
untold vortex
which isn't really an issue with ares, doom would be monstrous if it could stack straight off the gate
broken nexus
ok good to know thanks - doom was the first one I used but good to know works on others
I am all for breaking the game however - shame
static jacinth
It would be way too easy to break the game.
pseudo stream
huh. is there a decent general tier list for casts?
floral apex
Imo it depends highly on what your overall build is
Like, Ares base cast (imho) is kinda garbage
But if you get it with the Aretemis duo boon, hunting blades, and it wrecks face
Im not a fan at all of aphrodites cast, but it goes really well the with bow (Hera bow?)
tepid ridge
Aphrodite’s cast is apparently quite useful in melee builds because of the short range damage burst and reduction in enemies’ hits. I would prob say Dionysus’ cast is the most reliably good, as it scales well and has several duos that make it shine
But your build and play style will make any tier list pretty subjective
floral apex
Dionysus' cast is definitely good, it provides AOE damage, and if you get both Zeus and Demeter duos it just carries
I actually really dislike aphrodite in melee builds since I find I need the range to take out enemies that are floating over lava, or whatever
Each to their own obviously
The only thing I'd say is Tier-worth is Athena Dash
S tier on every build for me.
pseudo stream
that one loses you out on the blood bonus, but still seems good
that's the deflect dash? yeah, seems amazing
floral apex
Im not a huge fan of Athena in general, but the Dash (imo) is worth picking up alone
gleaming current
It can even activate Privileged Status rather easily when you get Exposed status boon
tepid ridge
Yea, enemies that you need a ranged cast to hit are (imo) more a game design flaw rather than a strategy check. Athena’s dash on the other hand, is very much a game design blessing. Plus having her in your boon pool is great with most fast-hitting weapons (read as fists)
pseudo stream
Privileged Status is making me greedy as heck, this is my first run with it
gleaming current
Tbh kinda feeling bad for other dashes being rather niche
The only one that can be equally insane is artemis for nuke dash strikes
floral apex
I had a random build once with 3 x chaos boons for dash boost, artemis boost, and I think the shield buff
random hull
Poseidon (tidal dash) is quite decent with supporting boons.
gleaming current
Well, yeah, poseidon washes out styx rather easily alone, would give it that
floral apex
All the dashes are useful, I just feel like Athena blows them out the water
I think the defining factor is that Athena dash both blocks attacks + reflects
If, say, poseidon dash blocked ranged attacks, itd be a lot more comparable
It feels to me like Athena dash has extra invincibility frames or something
gleaming current
It's just that deflect acts as block for most (not all though) attacks, especially if you dash strike hence losing natural iframes
floral apex
Yep
pseudo stream
woah, actually just lost a run! it's been a while. +400% trap damage is horrible haha
does privileged status include two stacks of the same effect...
tepid ridge
Trap damage nukes runs in the most unpredictable ways. It’s free heat until one single room where it very much isn’t lmao
And no, priv. status does not do that with stacked abilities like hangover or chill. You need two different ones applied.
pseudo stream
okay, cool.. I thought I saw the star thing on people with only 2 stacks of Hangover and was like O.O
so! which spear aspects are fun/cool?
floral apex
Im doing regular 30 heat runs and I dont use trap damage
As oak says, it does nothing until it one shots you
cunning urchin
Something like a cast tier list doesn't work because a straight-up cast build wants different casts than an Attack or Special or any hybrid build.
pseudo stream
yeah, that's very fair - "general purpose" isn't particularly well defined
cunning urchin
And then it depends a lot on the aspect and what pacts you're using.
pseudo stream
I do remember hearing someone say the Athena cast is the worst, and I was w ondering what other wisdom there was
floral apex
I kinda like Athena cast tbh
cunning urchin
Phalanx Shot is great.
floral apex
The reflection doenst crop up that often but its extra damage, and a slight AOE effect
cunning urchin
Probably the best supplemental cast for melee. Just throw it out, and you can safely engage any enemy.
floral apex
If you can get the Zeus/Athena duo as well, it can deal some serious damage
My playstyle revolves heavily around running away from the enemy, so any source of damage I can pick up thats "fire and forget" is pretty good to me
valid locust
People sleeping on some of the dashes and how good they are
Ares dash can get some silly damage on people.
floral apex
Ares dash isnt bad, but again I just feel like it pales in comparison to pseudo invincibility
static jacinth
All the casts are useful in their own way.
But, for the sake of argument, you could say that Demeter cast is least useful without investment. Or stuff like that. But it's not a good way of looking at things!
Tier lists for boons are really inflexible. Sometimes a boon is exactly what you need in a run.
And keep in mind, while Athena dash is quite nice, I don't think it actually adds any i-frames compared to a normal dash.
pseudo stream
tier lists often work like that, though - the goal is to give useful heuristics to speed up decision making when you don't see any synergies
floral apex
I believe that it doesnt add iframe, but because it adds an "area" bounce, you effectively get extra frames of defence against projectile attacks
I dont have the actual code obv though, so thats just my interpretation
cunning urchin
A lot of the time, the best cast for your run is the one that unlocks a strong Duo Boon that has nothing to do with casts.
static jacinth
It's a heuristic that just leaves you sort of blind to opprotunities inherent in the run.
It's way too binary to just give them a letter grade.
floral apex
Yeah, learning duo boons is a really good way to build Hades skill
And skill paths too i gues
cunning urchin
Like, any build with a Lady Aphrodite core boon and a good call will benefit immensely from Electric Shot.
pseudo stream
It's a heuristic that just leaves you sort of blind to opprotunities inherent in the run.
@static jacinth it wouldn't leave me blind, as I already don't know anything about duo boons 😛
static jacinth
Even not including duo boons.
It's not like you ever get to choose between two casts at the same time. You're offered boons from the same god.
pseudo stream
okay, so it really is way too situational for tier lists then? I believe it, games rarely have such fine tuned balance but it happens
floral apex
I think you could maybe make a tier list per weapon
static jacinth
When you look at the boons offered to you, spending time thinking "Which of these is highest on the tier list?" is a waste compared to "which of these helps me the most now?" "which of these fits what I've got already? "which of these fits what I want to go for in the future?"
floral apex
Which would be at best be a super rough guide for newbies
but making an overall tier list is probably out of the question
pseudo stream
I mean... early in the run, you have to choose with VERY little context
static jacinth
Depends. It can vary by weapon.
It can vary by your keepsake.
If it's your very first boon, that's the least information you have. And even then, a tier list for your first boon pick is kind of silly.
floral apex
Some boons are definitely better than others for certain weapons
static jacinth
If I'm using the spear or shield, maybe Thunder Flourish is better than Electric Shot. But if I'm using Arthur sword, I might prefer Electric Shot.
floral apex
Like, im not a fan of taking dionysus poison on sword special unless I have something very specific planned
static jacinth
If I'm using the Rail, maybe I'll take Lightning Strike instead of those two.
These are more useful things to think about rather than what letter grade some other person gave each boon in isolation.
floral apex
In fairness, I think sometimes tier lists are useful for newbies who feel a little overwhelmed with their options
static jacinth
Even for weapons, you -can- make a tier list. But people have different playstyles and skillsets. It's better to let them try out weapons and see what they enjoy and play with best.
floral apex
and they kindof just want someone to tell them how to avoid bad picks
static jacinth
Well it's better to write a guide on what you should look for when picking boons then!
Rather than just a list that doesn't teach them anything.
cunning urchin
You could make a tier list for build x on aspect y.
And a tier list for builds on aspect y.
When specifying pacts and mirror talents, too.
static jacinth
That could work! Though I'm worried that new players will get tunnel vision that way.
floral apex
Yeah, Ive found that Poison gets better the more HP enemies have, since it has longer to do its thing
cunning urchin
It was more a rhetorical point because it's way too much work lol.
static jacinth
"My build says that I need Aphrodite attack to be optimal, I will ignore every other attack buff then."
And then they end up in Styx and haven't seen Aphrodite attack a single time.
cunning urchin
Hangover. Poison can only be applied by enemies.
static jacinth
It's funny to apply poison to enemies with deflect though. It does a lot of damage.
cunning urchin
Fastest way to kill the big Satyr miniboss is to deflect all of his Poison, yeah.
static jacinth
Also, I wish that Artemis's marked status effect was... Better. Or rather, easier to actually apply to a boss like the final one.
floral apex
Thats one of the reasons I almost never take the Dionysus hangover spread
Just feels like its hard to apply in situations where I actually want it
On a sidenote, whats peoples opinions of the Ares buff "gain 200% damage on your next attack when you kill an enemy" skill?
It feels really underwhelming to me
cunning urchin
It's great.
static jacinth
Good for room clearing with certain weapons.
Really helps get through Elysium with TD.
floral apex
TD?
static jacinth
Tight Deadline.
The pact that gives you limited time to get through zones.
The point is, it's a boon I'd take with a lot of weapons.
It's not like, mandatory or a must have. But it's a 'nice to have'.
floral apex
Fair
static jacinth
If you're using Aspect of Hestia for example, it can halve your room time.
floral apex
I have trouble gauging the usefulness of skills that dont offer immediately obvious bonuses
Seems like its good on slow fire weapons? Arthur etc
floral apex
Fair
static jacinth
Nothing greets a room quite like a 200% damage rail special.
random hull
Anything offering a percentage buff is the better the higher the base damage is, so that's actually a more straightforward one.
floral apex
Lol, makes sense
pseudo stream
that's only true if it's "on your next X attacks"
floral apex
As an aside, the Lucifer rail special allows some insanely stupid tricks
pseudo stream
if it doesn't count attacks, 20% damage is just as good on everything else
floral apex
I enjoy just playing with it and seeing what nonsense I can pull of
random hull
That's a good attitude.
floral apex
It feels like... a weapon you can be clever with
Like, its hard to be clever with a laser that you shoot people in the face with
But setting up traps that can charm / knockback / poison allows some really funky mechanics
static jacinth
I like creating deflect zones. It's funny.
random hull
Use the Hazard Bomb hammer for maximum funkiness.
floral apex
Yeah, I threw a deflect zone in front of Lernie
He did not enjoy that
Ive done that letran
It did not go well for me
I was clearing rooms in no time, and taking out half my health in the process
The explosion is bigger than some of the side-rooms on the last floor
random hull
The best use of Hazard Bomb special on Lucy is in combination with Trippy Shot. It gives you a short time window to get away, or better yet, time your i-frames.
Because as long as no enemy triggers the hellfire orb, you can time exactly when it goes off with the cast lob. Takes practice, but really effective.
static jacinth
Does it just drop the hellfire orb at your feet?
random hull
No, you can still aim normally.
pseudo stream
what is the fist fourth aspect? there's nothing on the wiki
random hull
It massively increases the blast radius, but the pulse radius stays the same.
random hull
All bets are on for what (or whose) it's going to be.
static jacinth
My pet theory is Thor.
random hull
Mine is Gilgamesh.
cunning urchin
Nyaanyaa Aspect.
floral apex
Are there any famous fist weapons in mythology?
static jacinth
Thor had magic gauntlets.
That's about it as far as I know.
Not like Beowolf was known for his shield though, or Lucifer for his GUN.
So who can say?
random hull
We know how this will go: Some people will join the next beta simply to lift the game's biggest mystery early- what the 4th fists are. And maybe, after that, something something about Zag's mom.
static jacinth
Aspect of Persephone...?
gilded knoll
Time for black horse Cthulhu fists. Speaking of Zag's mom, she might take after Demeter with Malphon perhaps
random hull
That's also a credible possibility.
cunning urchin
They never said there would be another beta.
random hull
True. But wouldn't that make sense in terms of development?
cunning urchin
I want some female hidden aspect representation.
gilded knoll
Don't think there has been word for either?
static jacinth
Depends on the scope of the additions.
cunning urchin
I don't think it would make sense.
They did one for Blood Price because they changed engines.
static jacinth
So far we've got Hera, Hestia, Demeter, Nemesis, Eris.
I think that's all the lady aspects.
cunning urchin
So it introduced a lot more technical issues they wanted to solve before bringing the update to the broader user base.
random hull
Hm. That's a convincing argument.
grizzled oyster
Hello. I have a question about the chaos aspect of the aegis. I just unlocked it and im not sure, what boons or hammers would pair well with it. Seems like i also need to upgrade it to max, so i get all extra shields, because having only 2 felt underwhelming. Could someone share his/her knowledge about this weapon pls?
cunning urchin
Lv.4 or 5 is ideal, but you can do a lot of work with it at lower levels, too.
Thunder Flourish, Drunken Flourish, and Curse of Pain tend to be the best picks for it.
grizzled oyster
Ok. I will level the shield a bit and try this out. Thx for the answer^^
random hull
As for hammers, I recommend Ferocious Guard first, and after that Empowering Flight or Explosive Return.
grizzled oyster
Ok. Thx. I will look for those on my runs.
I really like the design of the shield^^ The eye is so big^^
random hull
And then there's the voice.
grizzled oyster
Quick question. Does Nourished soul from demeter, affect guan yus spear life steal?
grizzled oyster
Thx.
hearty elbow
whoah lol. that was weird. I used Ares Greater Call in Styx at the same time as the room reward came up, and i was just stuck in the call, even after my bar ran out
I just moved around some and it stopped kind of randomly
grizzled oyster
Ok..... Thats weird.
I nearly got a heart attack today playing guan yus spear for the first time. I did it in the end, but that was really intense. Thank good i got some good hammers for this, because the heal was a little bit underwhelming. But i also only have it on level 1 right now, so maybe it gets a lot better later on.
The damage was good tho.
cosmic jacinth
what builds for shield have the highest dmg output?
cosmic jacinth
other than that since i dont have it unlocked
cosmic jacinth
does it take skill?
main osprey
just a bit of timing for the power shot
it basically makes you a bow with the ability to block
main osprey
of the three?
cosmic jacinth
the rush or shot
main osprey
hmm
cosmic jacinth
shot right
main osprey
generally the shot, but in terms of raw damage the rush
however, if offered both, I'd take the shot usually
cosmic jacinth
k
hearty elbow
does it take skill... lol, game gets hard regardless of your weapon if you want it to
cunning urchin
Actually.
Zeus Aspect with Doom on Attack or Special + Deflect on Attack, Special, or Dash + Merciful End is probably the most consistent high DPS build.
main osprey
I haven't tried Zeus in a while, I'll probably pull it out for a spin at some point
cunning urchin
That's what Vorime is using for speedruns now since the first Hermes Cup.
cosmic jacinth
merciful end?
cunning urchin
It's the Duo Boon from Lady Athena and Lord Ares.
cosmic jacinth
doom over time?
oi wait
with the 10 dmg per extra doom and shield that is scary
main osprey
not exactly
cosmic jacinth
or am i thinking of the wrong duo
cunning urchin
Merciful End triggers Doom immediately when you use an ability that Deflects and adds 50 damage on top of it.
cosmic jacinth
so have shield on boss doing deflects and attack for doom]\
cunning urchin
Like I said: Zeus Aspect with Doom on Attack or Special + Deflect on Attack, Special, or Dash + Merciful End is probably the most consistent high DPS build.
cunning urchin
All of these combos let you spam Doom and Deflect in some way.
cosmic jacinth
i just need titan blood
cunning urchin
The ideal build is getting Charged Flight at the start and then Heartbreak Flourish. But that's very unlikely to happen.
cosmic jacinth
charged flight?
cunning urchin
That's a hammer upgrade for Beowulf and the Zag Aspect of Aegus.