cracked as in figured out, made work
#h1-builds-and-combat
hearty elbow
rare topaz
@surreal rover How's DC server?
Ah fair
Zag shield is great yeah
It isn't offensive.
surreal rover
just dash strike and attack
surreal rover
zag shield increases attack base dmg now
rare topaz
Oh.
surreal rover
it's the most offensive aspect now
rare topaz
In that case it's even better innit
surreal rover
since the bull rush dmg is unaffected
hearty elbow
right... i figured i'd be bull rushing folks for some big poseidon deeps
that is not the reality of the situation lool
rare topaz
I still prefer Chaos shield kek
surreal rover
Chaos shield OP
gleaming current
Chaos shield is a lol
rare topaz
It so is
cunning urchin
Deadly Strike. There's your Zag Shield build. 
gleaming current
Ideally those shields would have been mini copies of original. lower dmg and all
Altho not really helpful with zeus special ig
surreal rover
was about to say that
cunning urchin
Divine Dash or Hunter Dash or Passion Dash.
cunning urchin
Just pick up whichever you see first lol.
gleaming current
hunter over passion if there already is weak ability
Yeah that's also valid idea
cunning urchin
The idea is they all have great synergy with Deadly Strike.
hearty elbow
yeah yeah, <insert crit build here>. Was really hoping that the bull rush was buffed though lol. COME ON AND SLAM
cunning urchin
Well you asked lol.
hearty elbow
๐
dire wedge
Okay I'm just stupid, I forgot that Chaos' boon effects are delayed lmao.
hearty elbow
though it's kind of mystifying that the shield makes a better base sword than Zag Stygius does
surreal rover
how do you forget that
cunning urchin
Heartbreak Strike + Zeus' Aid + Smoldering Air.
Another Zag Shield build . . . that works on any aspect, really.
dire wedge
By playing at 4AM in the morning?
hearty elbow
yeah, i am a fan of that build though, it's fun
cunning urchin
I don't get a lot of fancy combos on 40+. I just keep it simple and effective lol.
opaque temple
sorry for noob question, but are aspects a straight upgrade u can have all at once, or do u choose one aspect to run?
gleaming current
One of them yes
opaque temple
ok, ty. didnt want to waste blood
amber jackal
Heartbreak Strike + Zeus' Aid + Smoldering Air.
@cunning urchin
https://i.gyazo.com/6ff8435c00d8cb1d38ab7aad1cda27f0.png
wiki says you need aphro special/call and zeus dash, which sounds really weird, but they generally datamine them
void fjord
What's a good Maphalon build for 32 heat?
amber jackal
The wiki is wrong ๐ฆ, carry on
main osprey
ah, I don't think you should be posting the code directly here...
the mods have usually guided us away from directly talking about datamining here
timber sparrow
Can someone help me understand what the point of the Cold Embrace duo boon is?
It seems.... so odd. I can't figure out how to effectively use it.
neon bramble
The beams track you instead of the enemy
Makes it easier to use and deal consistent damage
timber sparrow
But if they fire straight at me how does it do any damage?
neon bramble
It's like having link laser
timber sparrow
I tried it once and it seems so functionally useless.
neon bramble
It's not
It's quite good
Drop casts then dash behind enemies
Or drop them in a triangle area, and then dash to the middle
timber sparrow
It's just with how often they move and you have to move you can never hit them with it.
void fjord
its really good with JS
neon bramble
And with glacial glare
timber sparrow
With JS?
neon bramble
Jury summons
timber sparrow
Oh I haven't used that at all yet.
trim forum
what's your guys opinions on the easiest heats to start out with?
neon bramble
You won't see the benefit of certain boon combos until you go up the heat ladder
Is that a trick question @trim forum ?
trim forum
no
neon bramble
Heat 0.... ๐
void fjord
die
timber sparrow
I like the one that makes traps and lava do more damage, since it almost never hurts me in the slightest.
main osprey
DC is easy for most weapons
neon bramble
My opinion, the very first heats you should use are forced overtime
trim forum
would the nemesis sword be suitable w/ pierced butterfly
void fjord
pierced butterfly suits most weapons
neon bramble
Because you may as well get used to increased enemy speed
void fjord
just dont take dmg
neon bramble
Lasting consequences 1 and 2 are also easy
trim forum
has anyone beaten the game with all heats to the max
void fjord
pretty sure yea
trim forum
the next update's gonna be the full game right
neon bramble
Yes
trim forum
whens the estimated release
void fjord
end of the year
void fjord
Hey you have a good maphalon build @neon bramble ?
neon bramble
Yes
void fjord
for 32 heat
neon bramble
I've cleared heat 40 with Malphon
void fjord
ooo nice
trim forum
so whats better broken spear or pierced butterfly
void fjord
pierced is better cause it forces u to get better
void fjord
lol
trim forum
wait
surreal rover
the evergreen acorn is better than everything else
void fjord
show a screenshot of all your keepsakes for our ref
neon bramble
The Lambent plume will train you for Tight deadline
neon bramble
Another good build...
Demeter attack
Athena anything
Stubborn defiance
Stubborn Roots duo
void fjord
also which aspect is good
neon bramble
My favourite aspect is Demeter aspect
stoic thicket
Zag Aspect gang rise up.
cosmic jacinth
how strong is the 15 percent hit chance aspect? on the stygian blade
neon bramble
All fist aspects are good, to be honest
void fjord
yea
stoic thicket
Demeter has the nice chonk to it though, have to give it that.
void fjord
tru dat
cosmic jacinth
with zag and fists cant u become immortal with the lambemt plume
stoic thicket
You can't, dodge chances are multiplicative.
neon bramble
And rolling knuckle
void fjord
just get athena everything
cosmic jacinth
and the 30 percent dodge chance for best rarity
hearty elbow
All dodge/damage mitigation works multiplicatively, so you can't get capped
void fjord
nothing can touch u now
hearty elbow
but you can be "basically" immortal
neon bramble
If you go Lambent plume + second wind + greater evasion and Athena Aid, You will trash everything with fists
cosmic jacinth
wait can athena block melee
void fjord
athena can deflect almost anything
void fjord
poison and lazers are the exception
cosmic jacinth
flipping XD
main osprey
Athena's aid makes you invulnerable though, doesn't it?
hearty elbow
you can deflect the initial poison projectile but you can't stop poison in progress. Athena's Aid makes you invulnerable though
cosmic jacinth
so just attack speed and then u get athena attack on fists
void fjord
only the aid though
cosmic jacinth
and win
void fjord
its just much harder
cosmic jacinth
speed not fast enough?
neon bramble
When you dash strike
hearty elbow
lol, there's an almost second delay between fist combos, and it only covers you from a very narrow forward angle
void fjord
also against thesus and asterius
a perfect clear is rly hard
havent heard of anyone do it
cosmic jacinth
so how is the crit aspect of the blade
wise bloom
Can anyone explain to me how to win with Guan Yu?
neon bramble
It certainly helps, but you will get hit if you get overconfident
hearty elbow
Can anyone explain to me how to win with Guan Yu?
@wise bloom If you're new, look for either Quick Spin or Charged Skewer
wise bloom
I can sort of consistently make it all the way to the end, but boss's attacks keep destroying me.
void fjord
aphro atk for high dmg
hearty elbow
if you don't have one of those two it will probably be too hard when you're learning
wise bloom
I had Dragon Flight and Charge Protection or however it's called.
void fjord
quick spin is the most important
cosmic jacinth
so how is the crit aspect of the blade
is it worth it
hearty elbow
Athena attack always
void fjord
try fated persuasion to get quick spin
neon bramble
@cosmic jacinth nemesis aspect is amazing
void fjord
@cosmic jacinth its pretty good
gleaming current
Crit good
gleaming current
+60% avg dps
cosmic jacinth
soo aphro build with it?
neon bramble
Yes
hearty elbow
so how is the crit aspect of the blade
is it worth it
@cosmic jacinth It's great, yeah. Aphro/Athena Attack, Hunter Dash and Greatest Reflexes
cosmic jacinth
k
neon bramble
I prefer mistral dash + Aphro attack for easy privileged status
cosmic jacinth
privilaged?
wise bloom
Also, screw the Assassin with early Guan Yu.
neon bramble
Mirror talent @cosmic jacinth
void fjord
one of the mirror talents @cosmic jacinth
wise bloom
Pretty much the main way to deal with them are the specials.
hearty elbow
For Nemesis? I suppose. But Hunter Dash scales hilariously well with Chaos
cosmic jacinth
aaaah
wise bloom
Since they are fast enough.
neon bramble
+40% damage
cosmic jacinth
so what would be best dae hammers for it?
neon bramble
Double edge
cosmic jacinth
double hit and better dmg
hearty elbow
Double Edge by an extremely wide margin
gleaming current
Double edge, then the closest would be Cruel thrust maybe
70% crits on final hit
neon bramble
Depending on build, other good hammers are:
World splitter
Flurry slash
Super Nova
And for experienced players, snap nova
hearty elbow
You don't ever want to normal attack with Nemesis. It's generally better for DPS to dash strike twice, reposition, Special, then dash strike twice (or however many times you can dash)
cosmic jacinth
OH F double dmg for dash strikes basicly 200 percent dmg because of the hunters dash epic and maybe over 200% with aphro right?
hearty elbow
if you try to dash strike too many times you'll end up in the laggy af normal attack animation
it's 30% base damage too
neon bramble
Cruel thrust is NOT for Dash strikes
hearty elbow
which is 2.6x total
cosmic jacinth
with just the upgrade
neon bramble
It's for the final lunge in attack combos
hearty elbow
yeah, 2.6x base damage
cosmic jacinth
im currently was up to 6 am and i woke up before 11 am
gleaming current
Indeed, cruel thrust is for combos
cosmic jacinth
and i was binging hunter x huner durring that time i wasnt sleeping XD
still am rn not related XD
but this game is gonna be hard for me right
with my amount of sleep
void fjord
cruel thrust is only worth zagreus aspect
gleaming current
Double edge is a lot easier to utilize and gives almost same benefit so that's why it's #1 choice
neon bramble
Shadow slash is also good
void fjord
do you have 4th aspect?
cosmic jacinth
me?
void fjord
yea
void fjord
ahh
cosmic jacinth
and have meet him 3 times
void fjord
same
cosmic jacinth
i got him to second phase on my first and second trys
cosmic jacinth
XD
void fjord
good job
cosmic jacinth
theseus is evil
void fjord
yeaaaaa
cosmic jacinth
at lea st i got stubborn defience to take me through aspho
neon bramble
Also @void fjord
Stay away from Poseidon on fists unless you are using Talos aspect
void fjord
i suggest using skelly for hades
neon bramble
Poseidon is worst boon for fists
void fjord
yea cause it pushes enemies away
neon bramble
I like using bouldy for Hades
void fjord
some rooms are just too huge
cosmic jacinth
with the extra wall slam dmg
neon bramble
Get more health to extend the battle
neon bramble
Ah
cosmic jacinth
i just relised yesterday that the aphro extra life thingy is op af early game
neon bramble
Acorn is better
cosmic jacinth
right
void fjord
for noobs i think the tooth is
main osprey
hahahahaha
void fjord
and later its good to use acorn when ur used to his atk
cosmic jacinth
because of the centuar hearts u uget along the way
main osprey
I just charmed a megagorgon summoned by hades
void fjord
lol
hearty elbow
Tooth is great on GY and to "save" runs
cosmic jacinth
wtf he can summon those
void fjord
Daddy got trapped??
hearty elbow
It's sooo much thicc'er than the actual one too
main osprey
huh
I could've done TD2 and still won
I finished every region with at least 3 minutes to spare
cosmic jacinth
if it chonky u can keep on putting weak effects
void fjord
also @cosmic jacinth a ez way to kill hades wld be to get smouldering air (zeus+aphro) and get aphro aid
or athena aid
and spam
cosmic jacinth
air?
neon bramble
It's a duo boon
cosmic jacinth
what it do
void fjord
it charges 25% of ur god gauge in seconds
cosmic jacinth
and?
neon bramble
God bar charges automatically, but you only get 25% of it
main osprey
I've perma-charmed Hades with it
cosmic jacinth
it needs nerf tbh
main osprey
no
void fjord
no
main osprey
lmao
cosmic jacinth
XD joking
neon bramble
SILENCE HEATHEN
main osprey
only reason I could perma-charm was because I had a level 9 heroic aphro aid
and the Hermes boon that speeds up god gauge charging
void fjord
if anything needs nerfing its rare crop
neon bramble
......
cosmic jacinth
????
void fjord
that one is stoopid
cosmic jacinth
wuts that
main osprey
I'd actually disagree
main osprey
it's powerful but not breaking
void fjord
i got 250+ doom due to it
cosmic jacinth
what is rare crop?
peak iron
Rare Crop isn't reliable enough to need a nerf lol
It's just as likely to pick garbage boons as it is good ones.
void fjord
its a boon offered by demeter
hearty elbow
lol, Rare crop is kind of awful 90% of the time
main osprey
sets a few boons to common, then over a few encounters brings them up to heroic
cosmic jacinth
op
void fjord
3 encounters to be precise
cosmic jacinth
still op
cosmic jacinth
if u have good luck
hearty elbow
1, 2 ,3 boons depending on rarity of Rare Crop
cosmic jacinth
why not four?
main osprey
it's powerful, but not OP
cosmic jacinth
because of heroic
neon bramble
Why people call for nerfs when they haven't played high heat irritates me immensely
main osprey
you can't get it heroic
cosmic jacinth
oh
void fjord
cause no heroic rare crop
neon bramble
You need that stuff for high heat
cosmic jacinth
really?
hearty elbow
Lol, @neon bramble that's some serious gatekeeping. 99% of players will never play high heat, but their opinions are still valid
neon bramble
I consider anything over 20 to be high heat, I'm not an elitist
cosmic jacinth
i have a hair bruish that is my baby sisters toy in my mouth for no reason dont judge
main osprey
that being said, I agree that Rare Crop doesn't need a nerf
neon bramble
Because beyond 20 is just personal challenge
hearty elbow
I'm not saying I agree with the nerf opnions, but still, they're allowed to have them. I "dawwww"ed at the Hades aspect guy in #hades-feedback
main osprey
which Nerf Spin, I brought up a small bit but someone else wrote a much longer one?
cosmic jacinth
on top of the amount of dmg u do
native ether
I disagree Rare Crop needs any kind of nerf. Its simply better the earlier you find it.
Tons of boons act that way
notably Exclusive Access, Sweet Nectar
cosmic jacinth
nectar one is great almost always take it
native ether
The earlier you find it, the higher chance it applies to your attack boons
hearty elbow
I wish more boons were designed like Dio's nectar boon
cosmic jacinth
i thought u meant dio from jojo for a second
native ether
Premium Vintage is another example of a boon that's pretty strong in Tartarus, but kinda bleh in Styx
er sorry, not Privileged jesus my words
hearty elbow
... boon?
native ether
Whatever the dio nectar boon is called my words did a no today
neon bramble
Premium vintage
hearty elbow
I mean, I agree with you either way lol. Unless you're doing a Dio build PS falls off in styx too
Dio/Zeus/Doiom etc.
cosmic jacinth
max amount of dae hammers
native ether
Status falls off if you don't have the effects for it, pure and simple. Imo if you have the effects, its better than Family Favorite.
But there's tons of boons that are stronger the early you get them, and meh to trash quality in the later biomes.
cosmic jacinth
not threee?
native ether
isn't it three?
void fjord
u can get three max if you use the anvil
hearty elbow
And then there's Urge to Kill. Which is apparently in my top 20 boons, because all of Ares' stuff is garbo
native ether
Yeah its 3, Anvil of Fates will give you 2 for 1 hammer, so max is 3.
cosmic jacinth
is it worth?
native ether
Depends on how garbage your hammers are tbh lol
neon bramble
@hearty elbow I invite you to watch my Lucifer doom vid in #self-promotion
hearty elbow
Urge to Kill is something you take so you don't see Doom or Blade Rift boons going forward lol
peak iron
Ares without his legendary boon is pretty meh. Ares WITH his legendary boon? Game basically plays itself.
neon bramble
And then try and say that again with a straight face
void fjord
@hearty elbow get ares legendary (vicious cycle) + his aid
even without the legendary
hearty elbow
I like Ares @neon bramble, but you have to admit he is by far the worst supporting God
native ether
if you've gotten crap all luck on hammers up until then, Anvil is a good way to potentially improve your loadout.
But if you're relying on your current hammers? Don't take it, you'll likely just make your loadout worse.
void fjord
the aid allows you do dmg w/o taking dmg
peak iron
I've never been in a position where it felt like the Anvil in Styx was better than the hammers I picked up on the way there.
neon bramble
For support boons, yeah. He only supports himself @hearty elbow
peak iron
I took it one to experiment with it, but it seems more likely to just be garbage than good.
native ether
What I noticeably dislike about Ares Aid is that it prevents me from doing anything else. And without something like Vicious Cycle, I find that I lose out on damage rather than gain damage. (Hence I never prioritize his aid boon, ever)
hearty elbow
Lol, I'm not talking about the builds where you intentionally build Ares, those obviously can work. But for every other build, it's the big "sigh" that happens when you see an Ares room and pray that the game doesn't think you want 80 more Ares boons after that
native ether
I have a similar issue with Poseidon's aid but Poseidon's aid is fantastic for normal room clear and Rip Current exists now.
hearty elbow
Some exceptions include Battle Rage with Bow builds and Arthur
native ether
My preferred aids are boss executers though. Always will be. Zeus and Aphrodite.
hearty elbow
which is insane
neon bramble
I have that issue with Dio. He shows up EVERYWHERE
void fjord
battle rage with arthur is dumb
cosmic jacinth
rip current?
void fjord
especially with epic rarity
native ether
Yeah but honestly I've never had a single time where taking a Dionysus boon has hurt me cause even if I have all my attack slots filled, he gives me Strong Drink or Premium Vintage and I go on my way with super fountains or insane health ramping.
hearty elbow
Dio has nectar boon, positive outlook, his aid, strong drink (which while terrible is not zero)
void fjord
also fated roll helps
native ether
oh After Party, which is one of the strongest boons in the game if you're not using Stubborn Defiance
hearty elbow
... noooot exactly
cosmic jacinth
whats rip current
native ether
Rip Current boosts Poseidon aid damage and draws enemies towards you.
New Poseidon boon
cosmic jacinth
legendary?
neon bramble
No
native ether
nope, just a tier 2
cosmic jacinth
cool
native ether
you only see it if you take his aid though
hearty elbow
Rip current is more fun than worth a boon i think.
cosmic jacinth
so what should i prioatise on a run with crit aspect?
hearty elbow
It gets hilarious with breaking wave
native ether
Deadly Reversal
native ether
yeah that
native ether
for the duos
neon bramble
Just do it
cosmic jacinth
i have 5 hours of sleep
neon bramble
Do EEEET
cosmic jacinth
explain it please
native ether
Deadly Reversal is an Artemis/Athena duo that gives you +20% crit chance on all attacks whenever you deflect (for 2 seconds)
Heart Rend is an Aphro/Artemis duo that gives you 50% more crit damage on Weakened enemies.
nuff said tbh
hearty elbow
You want to (but don't need to) get Deadly Reversal and Heart Rend. As it happens, the synergies between Artemis and defensive buffs from Aphro and Athena will carry you regardless of whether or not you get them
So it always works out
cosmic jacinth
heart rend kk
native ether
Aphro also happens to be the highest base damage increase in the game, and Athena dash is absolutely the best dash in the game.
void fjord
just get aphro special and athena atk/dash, Then random arty boon
peak iron
Best way to figure it out is to just play the game and see how it feels to take those buffs rather than listening to explanations on Discord.
void fjord
lol
neon bramble
Actually... If you want to get technical.... Ares is highest base damage increase in game.
Just sayin
hearty elbow
Depending on build you may want to go Athena attack with Aphro dash and Artemis some random slot to get chance to proc duo boons
peak iron
Especially if you don't know all the boons yet >>
native ether
Highest base damage percent modifier increase in the game.
cosmic jacinth
sooo get aphro attack dash of smart woman and then forgetful woman random boon?
native ether
Artemis base on attack is 50% (Demeter and Athena I believe are next at 40%, don't quote me on that though, numbers change all the time)
neon bramble
Just try different things man
void fjord
yea sure that works
neon bramble
Have fun with it
hearty elbow
The trio works because almost literally any configuration of the 3 will be good
peak iron
If you're not playing with an excessive amount of heat, everything is viable.
It's more a matter of what boons compliment your playstyle.
native ether
Yeah that'll do it solid. Depends on your weapon though. Like on rail I prefer crit bomb, weak attack.
If you have extra slots, take Dionysus cause the Artemis/Dio duo gives you 1.5% bonus crit per poison stack on an enemy, works well for fast attacking weapons.
native ether
good call 
hearty elbow
Ehhh, Dio/Artemis duo is pretty loose unless you're doing primary Dio
neon bramble
And don't come back til you beat Hades, y'hear?
native ether
hence "fast attacking weapon" (or Dio's dash, that one works too)
still wanna do my "ultimate enemies auto kill themselves" with Curse of Nausea, Curse of Longing, Low Tolerance
hearty elbow
Since if you're going to go Drunken Dash for the chance to get it (and use it), you may as well go Divine for Deadly Reversal, which is just better
neon bramble
@native ether you can also do that with killing freeze
dire wedge
Poseidon aspect + Lightning Phalanx + Exit Wounds = fun
hearty elbow
how is curse of longing post-buff?
neon bramble
And lightning strike + cold fusion
dire wedge
I wish I got Greater Recall and Snap Nova
hearty elbow
I've never used it before, but the 50% is pretty nice
gleaming current
Big boi question
Did anyone ever collect all the 6 duo boons in a run?
native ether
I believe its 50% vs 25%, meaning its effect was basically doubled.
dire wedge
Most I've gotten is 5, and only got that once
native ether
Its afaik not possible to actually collect all that many duos in a run. The game will deliberately not spawn every god :p
Gotta have someone to challenge you at Theseus
hearty elbow
Is that how it works? Because I'm pretty sure i've had matching boons to Theseus' call
neon bramble
If you go Aphrodite, Artemis, Demeter, Athena and Poseidon you can certainly get 6 duos
native ether
That is actually how it works, the game is clever and will always not spawn at least 1 god, so you have an opponent
neon bramble
Stubborn Roots
Heart rend
Deadly reversal
Parting shot
Mirage shot
Blizzard shot
dire wedge
I can imagine the damage already
neon bramble
Oh, and cold embrace
native ether
The other difficulty is that most duo prereqs are on your main slots, meaning that you need some duo "exceptions" (aka duos with weird requirements).
neon bramble
So, 7
hearty elbow
wouldn't it have to be at least 2 gods, so you couldn't abuse the god keepsakes to get the last 2?
dire wedge
You'd have to choose between Crystal Beam and Flood Shot tho
neon bramble
Ah yes
gleaming current
Wasn't it confirmed you'd always have 4 gods boons at most?
Aside from hermes and chaos
native ether
I believe yeah it does choose all but 2 (Hermes never counts, Hermes is guaranteed)
this is why sometimes in runs you'll notice its impossible to find 1 god even in Asphodel no matter how many rerolls you waste
hearty elbow
@gleaming current I'm not sure... I don't think I recall having more than 25% FF at any time (including Hermes)
neon bramble
You can sell a boon after you get a duo, and replace with a 5th god
For example... Stubborn Roots
Which will still work
gleaming current
Mmm
native ether
You can so long as the duo doesnt require something on your attacks :p
like selling weak effects with Heart Rend is a wheeze moment right there :p
neon bramble
Yes, but selling Artemis after getting deadly reversal isn't always a terrible idea
native ether
yeah that's not bad, though the crit chances stack so I mean more chance to do mega damage
neon bramble
True
native ether
depends on what you have it on, as well as what your weapon is
speaking of dumb builds, may I present Talos Aspect + Freezing Vortex + Arctic Blast
aka "enemies go sled on blade rifts"
gleaming current
Technically, stacking more crit chance is diminishing returns
neon bramble
Try frozen hunting blades + engulfing vortex
native ether
add Hunting Blades for extra absurdity
gleaming current
But it feels more consistent and is one of few ways to multiply damage output so might as well go for crit anyway
native ether
does crit chance stack additively or multiplicatively?
because most effects in Hades stack additively
neon bramble
Dunno... Don't really care ๐
gleaming current
Supposedly additive
neon bramble
I just Hulk Smash
native ether
then crit chance isnt diminishing returns at all, cause 20% + 15% crit chance is 35%, and not a weird percentage multiplication
gleaming current
i just special into 3 seconds of sweesh swoosh
native ether
numbers are pretty bleh though, I agree. Why do math when you can spend more time beating up lernie
gleaming current
Also, well, it is a bit trickier
First 20% crit would multiply the damage output by 1.4x, while second 20% added on top of that would only multiply it by 1.28x
Globally it's the same damage added though, yes.
Just that it'd feel less impactful
native ether
ah I see what you're saying, yeah no I can see that
gleaming current
Well, crit remains #1 way to get monstrous dmg anyway, so no biggie 
unkempt pagoda
been trying to get demeter aspect kinetic launcher again after i accidentally got it with the anvil once
and the game decides now to give me explosive upper every run, when i actually don't want it for once
neon bramble
Explosive upper is best hammer for Demeter aspect
brisk cairn
for achilles spear cast build I want stygian soul probably, right?
hearty elbow
no, you want infernal
Stygian cast builds don't really work anymore since they changed the chaos and charon well pools
inner patrol
Most times Stygian Soul is good just so you don't have to collect the bloodstone
hearty elbow
he's asking because it gets annoying against bosses and thick enemies if your casts get trapped in them if they don't die in one combo. Which is a real downside
inner patrol
The same applies to infernal because you still have to get your casts out of the target, which Varatha isn't equipped to do (IIRC only Stygius has this with the Poseidon Aspect)
hearty elbow
Yeah, we're on the same page lol, I was talking about with Infernal
tl;dr Achilles just isn't that great for casting anymore
It was fine when you could more or less guarantee getting the 2 casts per run
inner patrol
Yeah, Stygius, Coronacht, and ||Aegis|| are the better casting options, although even then the last one is kinda debatable
hearty elbow
Even Talos is fine
inner patrol
I've always found Talos difficult to get to stick, like every other time it just doesn't do its lock-on effect
brisk cairn
I have 2 casts per run on my 2nd run here and it feels great
good to know though
so better off focusing on attack with achilles then
hearty elbow
oh it's excellent if you can get multiple casts but yeah
Maybe? The spear's base attack damage is sooooo bad
brisk cairn
some strimmers were saying good things so shrug, idk. Figured I'd give it a shot
inner patrol
Sadly Varatha is still the least used one by me, even with the latest updates to it. I almost always use the Zag aspect because it makes it a good versatile choice especially if you get flurry jab
hearty elbow
Yeah I use only Guan Yu, but that's... some learning curve
inner patrol
Where it shines (and it's not just Achilles) is the special attack, especially if you get the Rocket Throw upgrade or use Guan Yu
brisk cairn
ya my first spear was with a 65% Guan Yu lol
got charge skewer pretty early and you know how that goes
inner patrol
Charge Spear + Arty can get pretty gross in terms of raw damage. Even moreso if you get the Rocket Throw
I just feel bad for it because it feels more like a ranged option than the bow does in many cases
inner patrol
Like if you get the close shot or explosive shot upgrades then Coronacht can outclass Varatha as a close range damage build.
Speaking of builds though, does anybody have any suggestions for somebody that's struggling with this week's challenge for someone who has a terrible time of getting money?
Oh if I want to focus on Aegis' throw I default to Chaos, I know exactly what you mean
willow fossil
does the gold chamber in styx gives the same amount of gold (100)? or more?
broken berry
does the gold chamber in styx gives the same amount of gold (100)? or more?
@willow fossil It drops 200 if it's a miniboss chamber
inner patrol
It only increases its payout if it's one of the miniboss rooms (denoted by a skull in the bottom right of the bubble)
willow fossil
alright guys thanks
cosmic jacinth
anything that affects the hit of the blade dash like a dae hammer not aspects
summer lotus
anyone have any tips to beat the last boss with guan yu?
hearty elbow
if you have athena + quick spin, you can stay indefinitely in your spins and you don't take damage from anything but lasers and adds
cosmic jacinth
just got my first win
hearty elbow
nice!
summer lotus
i had both but i kept getting interrupted when i was charging my spins
cosmic jacinth
used power rush and the ranged one
summer lotus
prob just bad timing on my part
cosmic jacinth
on the zag shield
hearty elbow
but if you're not the athena spin build, then you need to git gud and learn the dash timing to i-frame his spin attack
summer lotus
i think serrated point actually screwed me over tho bc of the dash range reduction
i always try to dash out of the spin instead of learning to i frame it
hearty elbow
ah, yeah, i do love that hammer but it's downside is real
very very good with support fire
summer lotus
yeah deffo
i did two runs with gy in a row first one with zeus attack and support fire second one with athena attack and quick spin
both with serrated point but i think it worked way better with zeus than athena
i feel like the final boss is just infinitely harder if i dont have athena dash its insane
hearty elbow
does serrated point proc zeus 3 times?
it's been a long time since i've done anything but athena attack on GY lol
wtf are you kidding me. got a stupid erebus room in asphodel with gorgons and flame wheels? i didn't even know that combo existed
cosmic jacinth
hmm i almost did something i thought was impossible i went without a dmg boost for norm attack the entire game and almost won hades killed thea really easy but i had just gotten the 100 dmg when i hit a guy
neon bramble
wtf are you kidding me. got a stupid erebus room in asphodel with gorgons and flame wheels? i didn't even know that combo existed
This is exactly what Skelly is perfect for.
Drop him in the corner of an Erebus room, and nothing will even look at you while you mow them down
willow fossil
hydraulic might is so doodoo
neon bramble
Yes
broken berry
That's the Fists hammer that makes you slam after using your Special right?
neon bramble
No @broken berry
turbid needle
gives you damage bonus in the first 5 seconds of you entering a room
neon bramble
That hammer is called quake cutter
turbid needle
5 seconds is not alot
gilded knoll
Seeing that boon hurts
willow fossil
yeah lol
gilded knoll
Is there a more situational boon than that one?
turbid needle
doubling the duration would be a good enough buff i think
10 seconds with Hydraulic Might would be absurd.
hearty elbow
how can you tell if the greatbows in elysium are going to shoot 2, 3 or 5 times?
turbid needle
I think it's based on whether or not they're Elite.
Standard Greatbows only fire a single arrow.
I think Elites always fire the same amount.
Super Elites fire... 11?
Something insane, and then standard elites picked up their re-aiming.
unkempt pagoda
maybe if hydraulic might reupped itself every wave, or worked on the first few successful hits
turbid needle
Wish Battle Rage worked on next successful hit.
hearty elbow
hmm, okay. trying to figure out how to divine how long i'm supposed to hide if I see them in Erebus
unkempt pagoda
but sometimes i just spend 5 seconds in aspho just looking for foes
gilded knoll
I can never deflect them bois
turbid needle
^^
hearty elbow
I counted 3 and they kept shooting and i lost, so i guess it was one of the buffed elites?
turbid needle
10 sec i dont think is absurd
the time-to-combat per room sometimes takes up the entire 5 seconds
unkempt pagoda
if it was the armoured ones with an orange tint, then it was a super elite
hearty elbow
i guess i'll look closer next time. they are so brutal if you can't stagger them
unkempt pagoda
if battle rage/hydraulic might got worked on successful hits, that could be a neat mechanical parallel
turbid needle
I'd never really noticed what made Super Elite Greatbows different when I got an early Erebus one day.
hearty elbow
I found hydraulic might to be excellent (along with Battle Rage) on Zag bow, Arthur, crit Chaos aspect
but yeah hydraulic is pretty bad in most cases
turbid needle
Saw him, thought "Oh, he'll be like Elites, they fire a bunch but once you dodge the first you're okay."
He was not like the other girlsElites.
unkempt pagoda
hydraulic might could be cool if it lasted just a bit longer
hearty elbow
I was so annoyed, got blinky speedy flame wheels in erebus this run with baby gorgons
unkempt pagoda
like maybe 7 seconds
hearty elbow
If hydraulic started ticking down once you actually hit something that'd be nice
either way, both Battle Rage and Hydraulic should definitely apply to spells. Spells are terrible now, who cares if it's good.
turbid needle
You mean Casts?
hearty elbow
yeah
Not sure what SGG were thinking, locking double cast behind a duo, nerfing well of charon, and slightly nerfing chaos with regards to casts. Yeah... they were pretty good, but now they're relegated to cheese Poseidon runs.
gilded knoll
wells got nerfed?
hearty elbow
With regards to casts, extremely. The pool got WAY bigger
It was extremely easy before to get consistent +casts or +cast damage with Fated Persuasion and Bone Hourglass
unkempt pagoda
turbid needle
I'm not touching this one, Onyx, you have fun.
gilded knoll
Game too consistent need more RNG
hearty elbow
I don't disagree with the well nerf, that was more or less necessary. But now it's kind of odd that not only is Arty legendary worse, it needs 2 different Arty tier 2s to unlock and MIrage Shot is locked behind Poseidon. Too many nerfs all targeted at the same exploit
turbid needle
honestly fully loaded has always been a weird legendary
you'd think atry's legendary would be more
iono
crit centric?
It used to be Support Fire, which was valued at 25.
hearty elbow
loool
turbid needle
But Fully Loaded was a common boon, which could be Pom'd.
unkempt pagoda
needing two different tier 2s to unlock now, as opposed to when it needed two different tier 2s before, one of which was locked out whenever you had the wrong type of cast (all of which needed fully loaded the most)
turbid needle
arty has too many off theme things tbh, ive heard that her dash used to grantee crit
i mean i get that is too much
but like, how about increased crit chance?
doesn't have to be 100%
unkempt pagoda
too rng dependent and hard to balance
gilded knoll
Give me that Nemesis Thrust 100% crit chance
turbid needle
@unkempt pagoda that's kinda the fun for crit builds no?
unkempt pagoda
i don't mind that artemis has at least one boon that doesn't rely on rng to do big damage, it just does and provides support for dash strike builds
turbid needle
ok ok
unkempt pagoda
i mean, if you want crits, take literally any other core boon
turbid needle
i just want the dash to fit the same theme
but i get your point
let's say +25% chance for dash strikes on top of the increased dash-strike damage
10%?
5%
w/e you get my point
unkempt pagoda
eh, dash strikes still get the attack crit bonus if you have the corresponding core boon
hearty elbow
maybe you could get a pressure points aura for x seconds upon dashing
unkempt pagoda
i feel like, in that alternate timeline, complaints would be "+5% is too small!" or "20% is too much!"
unkempt pagoda
so just avoid it completely
turbid needle
that is a horrible way of looking at it
because you can generalize this to all numbers
we just did this for hydraulic might
in fact
unkempt pagoda
i'm just saying, there's nothing wrong with exceptions
turbid needle
maybe we should remove hydraulic might
hearty elbow
shrug, no one complains about having pressure points, it's great. having a small one in hunter dash too would be harmless
turbid needle
exactly
unkempt pagoda
i find hunter dash to be great and flavorful
turbid needle
well i dont
unkempt pagoda
it doesn't need to be the same to also fit and be mechanically viable
gilded knoll
Thematically though
turbid needle
yeah
unkempt pagoda
yes that's what i mean
it doesn't need to be a crit boon in order to fit thematically
turbid needle
i think it does
unkempt pagoda
eh
hearty elbow
I talked about it before, they can't do this, but it would be great if attack combos extended with dashes (e.g. Stygius) would be considered Dash-Strikes
gilded knoll
it does feel out of place, casts and crits are thematic to hunting, no?
hearty elbow
you would be getting non-crits with Arthur for over a thousand with Chaos and Hunter Dash lol
gilded knoll
I guess you could argue dash is a good move in hunting? lol
hearty elbow
that's a good thing no?
turbid needle
there is such a thing as too different
gilded knoll
I can dash and make people love me, throw down a beyblade, poison... 
hearty elbow
I agree that it could be tuned to be more in line with the rest of what Artemis brings to the table, but I think it's great that it's different
untold vortex
personally I think balancing would be a nightmare if hunter's dash had crit assosiated with it
gilded knoll
supportfiredash
turbid needle
make dash strike mark
untold vortex
that outright invalidates hunters mark imo
turbid needle
lawl
unkempt pagoda
that would make hunter dash even weirder, where most of your crit boons require a tier 2 to mark but your dash does it instantly
hearty elbow
Hunter's Mark used to apply Hunter's Mark, it was wayyyyyyyyy too good
turbid needle
LOL
you can make the mark crit chance from the dash lower, just like how hangover damage can be different from different boons
hearty elbow
I think the problem is also that Artemis will kind of always be the best God(dess) since she has exclusive rights to multiplicative scaling
So buffing her is kind of a non-starter
untold vortex
you still have the issue of crit chances stacking from arti attack boon
turbid needle
true
hearty elbow
Make crit chance stack multplicatively and make the numbers bigger
People love big numbers and being confused by ambiguous math
turbid needle
LOL
wait wait
are you saying we can double crit?
each crit chance proc on its own?
and each gives 3x?
lawl
hearty elbow
no, i mean, if you have 10% crit and 10% crit, you don't have 20% crit, you have .9 * .9 chance to not crit
hearty elbow
but it lets you make numbers bigger
hearty elbow
that's how they got away with all of the dodge and damage reduction numbers
turbid needle
true
also makes hunter's mark really useful
since it brings a huge chunk of crit chance
hearty elbow
lol, i'm not sure where you're getting that hunter's mark (the status) isn't useful. it's beyond broken. It's just that hunter's mark (the boon) doesn't grant it
turbid needle
oh no, i get it's great
i mean it will be even more important
how about this, make dash strike (on top of the damage bonus), also always proc marks
gilded knoll
Just revert the dash to an attack dash, we dash with some arrows sticking out lel
turbid needle
i guess i wouldn't mind that
gilded knoll
and a small crit chance
turbid needle
ye
gilded knoll
which mayormaynot stack with attack
hearty elbow
Hmm, it could grant crit multi
turbid needle
OH
that is a great idea
it rewards taking risk
but if it crits the payoff is bigger
hearty elbow
nothing like heart rend obviously, but better than clean kill because that's trash
turbid needle
i wanna say.. +30%/+50%/+60%/+70%?
(heart rend being +100%)
Heart Rend is a 1.5x multiplier on crit damage.
yes
hearty elbow
heart rend is x1.5 to total damage if it's a crit
hearty elbow
no it's just comparing apples to multiplicative oranges
turbid needle
no i just wanna have a scale to compare with
i mean all else being equal
it's 450% damage
as oppose to a normal crit
which is 300%
hearty elbow
Crits are calculated like this: (1 + sum(crit multi)) * (1.5 if weak)
turbid needle
yes
hearty elbow
lol so you there isn't a percentage for additive crit you could come up with that would make sense to compare
turbid needle
nah, i just want to confine the damage numbers is all
i get they are different mechanically
but it's still important to compare however you can
how about +50%/+80%/+90%/+100%?
hearty elbow
so if you have 200% crit multi base and you hit for 100, heart rend would make you hit for 450, which would be 150% additive crit
with nothing else figured in
turbid needle
exactly
that is what i was saying
heart rend would be +150% then?
@turbid needle
hearty elbow
lol, but additive gets worse the more you get and heart rend gets better
turbid needle
LOL
would it be too much to turn clean kill into +50%/+80%/+90%/+100%
maybe half that
hearty elbow
20% clean kill, assuming 20% crit chance, 200% crit multi base, 100 damage:
300 damage crit -> 320 damage crit... 20% of the time, so on average the buff is worth 4 damage
turbid needle
lel
how about, give scaling bonus crit damage based on missing health? @hearty elbow
hearty elbow
that's pretty mechnically bloated. every other dash is very one-dimensional
hearty elbow
oh, sure that sounds fun
turbid needle
it makes sense, it's clean "kill"
hearty elbow
i'm always at low health that's perfect
turbid needle
well, i was thinking of enemy health
hearty elbow
oh lol, like an execute
turbid needle
yeeeee
hearty elbow
yeah that would be super flavorful
turbid needle
right?
umbral bolt
does achielles aspect buff ares cast?
lament coral
of course
willow fossil
is erebus always win without taking dmg?
unkempt pagoda
yes
lapis pilot
Can anyone speak definitively on the iframes of the dash? Like how much invincibility time is it and does it scale up or down with %change to dash distance?
cyan solar
experienced the glory of beowulf + icy flare for the first time, but I think it broke when I got mirage shot too ๐ฆ the extra radius fell off of the AoE
lament coral
@lapis pilot dash distance doesn't affect the amount of iframes you have.
well, it technically does in case of reduced dash distance because of the dash simply ending faster. Longer dash however just teleports you further.
cunning urchin
I don't think reduced dash distance affects the duration or i-frames of a dash.
lament coral
shorter dash means the dash ends faster, does it not?
I haven't actually measured it but that was my impression from both using the tripe dash attack spear hammer and Chaos' dash curse
cunning urchin
I think it's just as many frames. He just doesn't cover as much distance. Similar to when you dash within a Puller aura.
Playing Coronacht is so stressful.
winter rune
Chipping in to say pullers are the bane of my existence
Whoever designed them is extremely evil and should be ashamed of their transgressions
green plover
If you're not used to being patient, yeah Coronacht can be stressful.
Tried out the Chiron aspect just a while ago. It was a good run, although I had to half-salvage it in the end because I was trying to bait a single god for legendary, which didn't happen.
merry oxide
feel like doing a hades run, gimme a build to do, anything
green plover
Although, considering Nyaa is a high heat runner, she must've had a lot of stress with the weapon.
void fjord
@merry oxide do a poseidon aspect run and try to get artemis legendary
void fjord
the only time poseidon aspect is good is with lot of casts
and even then its circumstantial
cunning urchin
Poseidon Aspect is very strong. A cast that lodges is good, but so is something like Trippy Shot.
lapis pilot
Roughly how many frames of invincibility does one have per dash? I havenโt yet dialled it in after, umm... 80+ runs and am still eating minos/hades swipes occasionally, though i am starting to think dashing in to them is the way forward there rather than out of the range of the swipes. Doesnโt fare well against lunges
cunning urchin
No idea. It's just timing, anyway.
Enough, except when you get hit, then it's not enough.
untold quiver
So....I'm a big advocate for Ares heavy Achilles Spear - which also I think fits his final battle in Mythology nicely (the movie and his own in game accounts don't do it justice) , the duo was always Hunting Blades, but was wondering what kind of success, if any people have had with some of the new duos for a slicing blades core?
lapis pilot
Ah ok having played a fair amount of dark souls pvp and such, i am curious as to how SGG are handling it.
It being dodges/i-frames
As well as other things like animation cancels
serene isle
First time playing new Zag Shield
Attacks have same base damage as Guan Yu Spear
Pommed out of my mind
lost cairn
Just a little trick, not sure if this is common knowledge https://streamable.com/i3r4ph
spark mulch
does the charon hourglass affect eurydice at all?
lost cairn
It's bad
You either play Rama "proper" and you just tag enemies for the big attacks, or you play special spam. Charged volley won't help any of these
lost cairn
I thought it might be good for spam, because you have 3x specials, but range just kills it
gilded knoll
woops wrong channel XD
cunning urchin
Spoilers are generally okay in this channel.
gilded knoll
Usually on discussion when I come in x.x
serene isle
Just a little trick, not sure if this is common knowledge https://streamable.com/i3r4ph
@lost cairn What part are you referring to here? That you can continue a sword combo after dashing?
lost cairn
Cancelling the laser with Aprhodite call
serene isle
Ah. That is common-knowledge yeah. You can interrupt nearly any boss attack with a Charm
magic dagger
enough people probably don't know/haven't really thought about it that it was definitely worth sharing
serene isle
I guess that's true
lost cairn
I usually play Aphro call on max gauge, because it was considered bad on lower levels
I think it's buffed now maybe the charm has longer duration
gleaming current
What is the coefficient for bosses anyway? Like 20% of regular charm time?
tbh i do use aphro call from time to time but mostly for 2500 burst
green plover
I almost salvaged a Asterius excretra Spear run. Choked at the last moment to Hades....
neon bramble
I heard news that fist 4th aspect is Micheal Jackson's glove, allowing you to turn into moonwalker and laser everything
https://media.tenor.com/images/991a02d463c2ba644071ac53013a549d/tenor.gif
green plover
Disco Zombie from PvZ approved?
untold quiver
I'm not even sure what "twist" the 4th fist aspect could have
neon bramble
Charged dash strike attack instead of charged special perhaps
lost cairn
Moonwalker was an awesome game
stuck elbow
tbh you lose the dash for something else
similar to how Beo replaces cast with flares
hearty elbow
since the first 3 aspects go slower for more reward, and the 5th aspect goes faster (for less reward?), they'll probably also make a faster aspect for the fist
stuck elbow
idk about that though, fist is already super fast
hearty elbow
we thought that about rail
stuck elbow
yeah, but it's not any faster or slower
if you compare it's gameplay to like Hestia
I don't think speeding up the fists is the direction they would go in seeing as we already have Zag fists
which are faster with a built in dodge chance
hearty elbow
Or Eris. And there really isn't an advantage to Zagreus, its literally just Lucy but bad
Shrug, maybe they could go WAY slower and do the Aspect of Saitama
gleaming current
If you speed up fists any more, that'd be the jojo stand
hearty elbow
yussss, finally finished 32 with rama
the seed was definitely better than the player. i ended tartarus with Low Tolerance
modest urchin
I dunno how slower would go with people. Do people actually enjoy playing the heavy fist hammer?
hearty elbow
Demeter?
oh heavy fist hammer, lol, I have actually used it with Demeter, not really thinking. It went better than i expected
It's downtime is lower than normal fist so Athena attack ended up being more consistent at deflecting somehow
I think it's legit with the crit A-team
untold quiver
I imagine since the base ones are all special oriented the 4th fists might be dash focused?
hearty elbow
maybe. talos is also pseudo-cast oriented, I'd be a fan if they did like a fist charge shot/bull rush ala One Punch Man
cunning urchin
Pseudo cast oriented?
hearty elbow
i mean it offers a pretty non-zero cast buff lol. it's not as good as poseidon but it still punches stuff good too
fierce thicket
I tried to make a blade rift build work with talos
Failed pretty spectacularly
I want to give it a shot with aphro's cast as well
neon bramble
Try Talos with cold embrace
untold quiver
@fierce thicket I've found Achilles Spear is my best success with blade rifts (and it's very successful so far) I just think Talos boost lasts too long for you to use it for cast and not attack if that makes sense?
neon bramble
Try Talos with cold embrace....
fierce thicket
I just can't find something for talos that works
neon bramble
.....
fierce thicket
Gonna try cold embrace aphro cast tho
untold quiver
Not focusing on cast to be honest....I'm 12-13 heat with Talos going attack focused
fierce thicket
Problem with attack on talos is why not just go zag and ignore the time consuming special?
neon bramble
Curse of drowning also plays directly into merciful end and unshakable mettle if you take Ares attack, Athena dash and flood shot
cunning urchin
Because Talos gives you control over the battle.
You can dash-cancel the magnet pull so fast, all you really see is a dash.
untold quiver
Talos let's you pull in, and it's essentially a flat damage increase
This ^ I lead in with dash specials also
Magnet pull I believe also applies the debuff even when it doesn't damage
neon bramble
Yes
But just think. Cast curse of drowning, then magnet pull whatever you want into it
untold quiver
So it's great for that "negate the first hit" pact
neon bramble
Another sorta fun cast build with it is Scintillating Feast
But I hate trippy shot, personally
untold quiver
I love trippy shot with Hera Bow....and that's it lol
I forget what does curse of drowning do again?
neon bramble
Turns flood shot into a pulsing AOE that does crazy damage
3 pulses per cast
You can melt with it, and since you're always surrounded when using fists, it's a perfect synergy
untold quiver
Ahhh what's that the duo for?
neon bramble
Flood shot + any ares core boon
untold quiver
I might have to see how that works in Achilles too
cunning urchin
Blizzard Shot + Tidal Dash + Demeter's Aid is a lot of fun with Talos.
And very effective.
neon bramble
It may have been changed to curse of agony/pain though
Blizzard shot works with everything, but yeah, would be great with Talos. Rake them across all the damage
untold quiver
I love Demeter in general like with out knowing your weapon choice or aspect choice I'm gonna say "pick Demeter"
neon bramble
Yup
dry ember
Big damage bonus and a stacking mechanic
neon bramble
Demeter is excellent overall
untold quiver
That kind of pulsing AoE boosted 150% tho
dry ember
Best of both worlds
hearty elbow
first time running stubborn defiance. what happens if i buy a death defiance or get one from athena?
neon bramble
If you lose your SD before taking Athena, you'll get an additional DD
But it will not Regen if you lose it. Luckily, your SD is always used first
hearty elbow
that's great. but it only works if your SD is not there
neon bramble
You can get up to 3 additional by the end of your run if you know how to work the system
2 from Athena, one from chaos
And then try to keep touch of Styx dark to Hades
cunning urchin
Just suicide before taking a boon from her if you have access to t2.
hearty elbow
t2?
cunning urchin
Tier 2.
neon bramble
Access to t2 means you already have an Athena core boon
hearty elbow
oh, i see
untold quiver
I still have to try and see what happens (I don't imagine it'll prove that great) with the Demeter + Artimis fast tracking crystals in Achilles
magic cedar
How reliable is it to get curse of drowning in a run?
hearty elbow
okay, but suiciding in tartarus, styx, or chaos is impossible. how do you gain DD's there?