Wait as in Arte should give Defiance boons?
#h1-builds-and-combat
dry ember
cunning urchin
Just don't get hit so much. 
lament coral
boon, as in one
dry ember
Idk if I'm on board with that
lament coral
they'd have god specific effects, too
dry ember
That would make the game difficulty lower by a lot
Health and lives are valuable resources in a Roguelite.
If everyone and their moms offer you life, that's not good
versed tide
rougelite
why do you trigger me like that
dry ember
I love you
lament coral
that could be easily addressed by changing the maximum amount of collectible Defiance boons to 2 per run
dry ember
We can agree to disagree here. I'm not on board with that idea at all.
cunning urchin
No because you'd see DDs a whole lot more in your run from any god at all.
Yeah, hard disagree.
Play on God mode at that point.
carmine rivet
minor point but Athena's Defiance boons are T2, not T1.
lament coral
that's even worse
dry ember
Are they?
carmine rivet
Definitely don't agree with Defiance boons overall, however much I want Athena's to be good.
lament coral
so you have to commit to Athena to have a chance at getting a Defiance refill
cunning urchin
That's fine. There are other ways to replenish DDs.
lament coral
why can't I just pray to the bloody gods?
versed tide
well, you could buy it at charon's pool if it wasn't full of useless consumables
cunning urchin
The Well items are fine. Kisses of Styx show up often enough.
carmine rivet
some of the new items I don't care for, but I like most of them and believe all of them have a place in the game.
hexed fable
I wouldn't mind other gods offering boons that apply when you use a dd
that would be interesting
versed tide
gem consumable needs to be removed, I already hated that darkness consumable was a thing but you can at least use it with dark-heal talent
gems are just absolutely useless
dry ember
Ares already does
hexed fable
maybe like a full on charm affect to all enemies around you when you come back from dd
dry ember
Bar the current Athena boons of course
carmine rivet
Gaea's Treasure is a godsend imo with how little Gemstone rooms offer, even in Elite encounters where it's doubled.
lament coral
Well's Darkness is basically a minor HP heal
dry ember
Cry in LC4
lament coral
provided you're running the right talent
well, that's your problem
running LC without GY
dry ember
If only picking up darkness gives you max HP for 5
hexed fable
Cthonic Vitality crying in the corner over there
dry ember
Like Sisyphus darkness, trove, etc
sage mica
sorry if this was answered, but what are some go-to builds for the rail hidden aspect?
lament coral
Zeus attack
dry ember
Yeah that's about it xD
hexed fable
Someone said Hydro Pump with Poseidon and I have been the same
carmine rivet
i heard Poseidon attack for hydro pump and while i'm not saying it's good I think it's very funny.
lament coral
Pump is the talent that gives you bonus damage for 5 seconds
hexed fable
mix it with rupture and jolted
dry ember
Are we Pokemon now lads?
hexed fable
and you got a status build
dry ember
Zagreus, use Hydro Pump
sage mica
i found pump really underwhelming
lament coral
that's absolutely useless
versed tide
honestly I think they need to change pact modifiers again
hexed fable
ur useless 
lament coral
if you have blue shields on, that bonus damage won't be doing anything
hexed fable
i didnt mean that
dry ember
i found pump really underwhelming
What's wrong with insta killing Styx chambers?
lament coral
not to mention that leveling Pump up only increases the damage and not its duration
versed tide
pact options that give enemies/bosses more movesets = great
pacts that take away your boons, make everything more expensive and reduce the choice = awful
carmine rivet
you mean hydraulic might??
lament coral
Are those different boons?
cunning urchin
@dry ember I think it was you who asked the other day? The telegraph for the 3-bomb throw from Inferno-Bombers is they noticeably stand around doing nothing for a moment then do a little hop just before they throw the bombs. Gotta dash out right when you see the hop.
carmine rivet
Hydraulic Might is the new Poseidon boon for bonus damage for 5 sec each encounter.
dry ember
Yeah was me
cunning urchin
Remembered that question came up as I was fighting them in Tartarus just now.
dry ember
Thanks! I appreciate you.
hexed fable
I'd like to imagine the hesitation is them thinking if it's the right move
carmine rivet
Hydro Pump like the pokemon move is the nickname i saw given to Poseidon Attack on Igenus, because constant knockback and the blue coloring.
hexed fable
"I am gonna jump now, but I'll surprise him this time with THREE BOMBS"
cunning urchin
@versed tide you don't need to choose pacts that you don't like. That's entirely up to you.
dry ember
I love that description
versed tide
you can't really go around it at high heat
lament coral
how big is the knockback of Pos attack on Lucy?
dry ember
How high are we talking?
cunning urchin
You don't need to play on heat that high.
versed tide
ye sure I could play the game at 0 heat ๐
carmine rivet
minimal but constant
dry ember
Yeah but how high are we talking
hexed fable
Like shooting your cousins with the water hose
dry ember
32- you don't need to touch any of the RNG stuff
lament coral
is it strong enough to push the target out of the beam's range tho?
versed tide
idk 20+ you already start to stack enough pacts
carmine rivet
probably only if you start hitting at the outer third of the beam anyway?
neon bramble
I concur with foxhope. I didn't touch any of the RNG stuff for my 32 heat run
You technically don't have to touch it at 40 either
cunning urchin
There are like 10 people who cleared 40+? So what does that matter for most people if you need the RNG pacts for that. And pushing the heat that high is entirely your choice. You can enable all the other pacts and ignore the RNG stuff and still push very high that way.
lament coral
those 40s were all seeded tho, no?
neon bramble
Mine wasn't
cunning urchin
No.
neon bramble
I never seed
cunning urchin
Tailesque, Manthro, and I don't seed. I think the others all were.
dry ember
those 40s were all seeded tho, no?
Nope. Although imo, if yoy start with an Epic Boon on blind it might as well be seeded.
lament coral
I just remembered seeing a pic of someone's route all the way to Elysium
versed tide
extra cost / selling boon / less choice options may as well not exist for how unfun they are
inner heath
pretty sure toaster doesn't seed either, at least not on his streams
dry ember
That said many 40+ runs used rare and common starting boons
neon bramble
Extra cost isn't that big a deal @versed tide
carmine rivet
Approval Process, Routine Inspection, and Convenience Fee at max account for 15 Heat out of 57 Heat with all pact conditions on. You really don't need to choose them to get high heat clears.
neon bramble
You can still buy at every shop if you take the correct rooms
cunning urchin
Resqtoaster definitely seeds runs. Don't know if all of his runs are seeded.
dry ember
You forgot Underworld Customs, but point still stands.
versed tide
correct rooms as in, taking coin rooms which are already weaker than alternatives
inner heath
Ah, maybe off-stream then he seeds his runs or just during streams I haven't caught
carmine rivet
Sorry add another two for Underworld Customs for 17/57. Can still clear 40 Heat without any of those 4 Conditions.
dry ember
Seeds are OK. People treat seeds as if it's a magic pill to clear high heat
cunning urchin
If you don't like them, that doesn't apply to every other person playing the game. Keeping them in the game doesn't affect you. If you don't choose them, it's the same as if they removed them.
ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
dry ember
Seed means ONE boon only
carmine rivet
100 Obol is pretty good as far as I can see.
versed tide
coin rooms are pretty weak
dry ember
It doesn't give you that much advantage
cunning urchin
@dry ember for one who always seeds at high heat, you're very defensive.
neon bramble
Lately this game wants to give me Dionysus for my fist runs as first boon like 70% of the time ๐คฃ
versed tide
gem rooms are probably the worst room in the game
cunning urchin
20 obols can be very nice.
neon bramble
Nah
lament coral
isn't it 10?
neon bramble
It's 20
dry ember
I am, because people who don't understand seeding vs routing treat seeding like a magical pill that will automatically clear runs
It doesn't.
neon bramble
Overall, gem rooms hurt your run
cunning urchin
Darkness chambers have basically the same value if you're at max HP.
neon bramble
It's essentially a room that stunts your progress
cunning urchin
20 obols can be the difference between buying 2 boons from Charon or 1.
carmine rivet
5 Gems is so painful, even with +20 Obol on top...
versed tide
20 coins is nothing
dry ember
It should be 25 gems
carmine rivet
The new Darker Thirst doesn't even help with that.
carmine rivet
Yeah
dry ember
For meta progression
inner heath
Wait, help define seeding for me then. Is it checking the first room, killing yourself/resetting RNG somehow until you get a good starting boon? Or is it checking the first boon so you know what keepsake/weapon to take? Or is it something else?
dry ember
5 gems rooms are a scam
carmine rivet
Considering max Trove can give 75 Gems, gem rooms should be like 20-25 each.
versed tide
20 coins is really not the same as 5 hp, you only get max HP from room rewards, you get coins from everything including enemies or pots
hexed fable
I'd say bump up to 10 and we can talk
inner heath
You can get max HP from the well of Charon too
lament coral
it's pricey tho
hexed fable
and 20 coins does average out sorta to max hp
if you consider shops
and health upgrades
I see the argument for it
dry ember
Seeding means you guarantee to get the first starting boon that you want, usually you just do a normal run, if you see say a good Epic Attack, you save the file and reuse it later.
carmine rivet
I'd prefer Brilliant Gemstones to give 25 Obol. then it's 5 Gems Rewards = 1 (purchased) Centaur Heart, just like 5 Pitch-Black Darkness Rewards = 1 Centaur heart.
hexed fable
but the base of 5 gems really dont cut it
dry ember
Whatever happens after that first boon happens organically
You don't know what happens next
inner heath
Okay, that makes sense
hexed fable
increasing both values up by 5 would drastically increase my odds of going for gem rooms
versed tide
20 coins doesn't match shop costs
inner heath
Yeah, personally, I don't do that, but I wouldn't be against it
hexed fable
and it's such a slight increase
neon bramble
I avoid gem rooms unless there's a boon in a miniboss fight I don't want
inner heath
I guess I do what's called scouting, where I see what the first boon is then pick an aspect+keepsake that can really benefit from it
hexed fable
20 coins plus the rough 7 to 10 for clearing the room means you can grab a potential potion
neon bramble
Hoping for something else later
inner heath
But I don't play on high heat yet
lament coral
perhaps meta rewards should just scale with the biome
cunning urchin
+5 max HP is worth 25 obols. It's 1/5th of a Centaur Heart, and those cost 125. But getting more max HP than you need is wasted, you can get a lot more value out of it if you take the 20 obols before Charon's Shop, so you get a better chance of buying 2-3 items from him that raise your DPS.
versed tide
also meta progression should not be a reason to pick a room past maybe 30 hours into the game, it's unfortunate that it does considering how expensive furniture is
you don't really know how much damage you're going to take in the run tho
neon bramble
@cunning urchin that's assuming you don't have CF cranked
Which is why darkness rooms are better
cunning urchin
20 obols can be still be better with CF maxed out.
neon bramble
Sometimes yes
hexed fable
It's a saying
neon bramble
I'll agree
hexed fable
but 20 obols is 20 obols
cunning urchin
Yeah, that's really my point. 20 obols can be pretty good. It's situational.
It's not a game changer but neither is a Darkness chamber.
cunning urchin
The healing is very often irrelevant.
neon bramble
I consider it only max hp because I have LC3 on most of the time
lament coral
sheesh
versed tide
it's irrelevant if you never take damage
neon bramble
Lol
carmine rivet
Darkness room rewards are 10 (12 with Dark Thirst), which means even max Dark Regeneration only nets you 6 or 8 healing. Which is practically as much as the max HP increase.
versed tide
in which case this is a hidden brag
lament coral
so is gold then
inner heath
Also, Nyaa, I'm watching Toaster's last run and it wasn't technically seeded...but it would've been. He saved the file after starting it, but cleared it on his first attempt anyway
neon bramble
I get hit all the time... Which is why I use SD
inner heath
But his first attempt was RNGing into it, which is probably why I was thinking unseeded
neon bramble
If I had recorded my heat 40 run, you'd be shocked at how bad you can play and still clear ๐คฃ
inner heath
Not that he wasn't necessarily searching for something to seed, but still practicing through it. So IDK how that's counted I guess
dry ember
I think instead of talking seeded vs blind
A better way to go about it is Epic starting boon vs non epic starting boon
cunning urchin
Man, you really can't let go of defending your seeded runs lol.
inner heath
Yeah, that might be a better way. Or a combo of both?
dry ember
Man, you really can't let go of defending your seeded runs lol.
At this point I'm.not defending myself. I'm expanding on KMBR comments on Toaster runs
Don't put words in my mouth please.
inner heath
Yeah, I'm just trying to understand the terminology
hexed fable
We can post pictures here right?
neon bramble
Aphrodite attack + Colossus knuckle + the weakness increase boon = -75% damage
lament coral
just upload em somewhere, like imgur
neon bramble
Facetank time
dry ember
Yeah, use an external hosting site.
Although victory screens go to #h1-victory-boasting , just fyi :D
carmine rivet
or DM them to a Discord bot, copy the link and paste it in this server like me
dry ember
Which bot is your victim?
carmine rivet
Sidekick, a dice-rolling bot I've been abusing as a D&D resource hoard for years.
I should send my Hades screenshots to Styxbot actually.
dry ember
Protip just DM Nyaa your victory pics and link it from there. She won't mind 
hexed fable
No I was just gonna show that foxhope was right about SD
cinder flower
how does the chaos shield doom+athena combo work? The doom goes off before I can manually attack it with my shield
hexed fable
and athena
neon bramble
Use Beo instead for that @cinder flower
It works better
But, ares attack + Athena special is how I would do it
Bullrush applies doom, special detonates
cinder flower
someone told me other way around was best for chaos shiled
neon bramble
Then you'd need Athena dash
For it to work, and impending doom to delay it a bit longer
inner heath
Aphro attack dio special is a good chaos shield build
cinder flower
so what is a better combo for chaso shield
inner heath
especially if you can get the duo
neon bramble
Dio or Zeus special
inner heath
Easy Privilege status too
neon bramble
Imo
cinder flower
zues special paired with what
neon bramble
Cold fusion
Plus his own lightning support boons
So Zeus/Demeter
Or go Poseidon special and try for seastorm
cunning urchin
Chaos Aspect + anything at all on Special is strong.
cinder flower
hold on you guys lost me
was googling stuff you said
i've never seen demeter before
lament coral
oh
dry ember
Chaos Aspect + anything at all on Special is strong.
Instructions unclear. Put Deadly Flourish on Chaos Shield.
cunning urchin
That's still strong.
lament coral
@cinder flower were you talking about Chaos aspecT?
cinder flower
yes chaos aspect shield
dry ember
i've never seen demeter before
How far did you get in the game?
lament coral
You just Bull Rush into Special into Bull Rush. Ideally, you want Impending Doom to slow down Doom.
dry ember
This channel might have some spoilers...
cinder flower
that's fine
inner heath
If you have Dio's and Aphro's keepsakes, you can force dio in the first biome and aphro in the second. Dio on special, aphro on attack, and you should be good from there tbh
neon bramble
Zeus is one god where you really benefit from trying to take only Zeus boons as often as possible
He gets really strong
inner heath
Zeus on special and poseidon on attack is another good build if you don't have demeter available
mild briar
Can sm1 recommend me a Hades spear build? ๐
dry ember
Also my guess is that your Chaos Shield is not well upgraded
neon bramble
Other way around @inner heath imo
lament coral
it's called "not using Hades"
mild briar
D:
dry ember
Which is a terrible weapon
inner heath
Mathro is correct. Flip that
neon bramble
I like Hades aspect
inner heath
I said it backward
cinder flower
ok so zeus spec and poseidon attack, areas attack or special with athena dask or special, and dio spec and aphro attack got it
inner heath
Flip Zeus and poseidon. I said it backward
cinder flower
ok
carmine rivet
poseidon attack on melee weapons is really difficult to get right.
mild briar
@lament coral i dont have the legendary spear aspect yet, so is anothe rof the spears much better than hades? I thought the dmg bonus was pretty good
inner heath
Also, I'd do either of the other two over ares+athena
lament coral
Zeus special on Chaos is better, you don't need any duos for it
neon bramble
Spear is meh... But Achilles aspect makes it super meh
lament coral
each shield is boosted
inner heath
Poseidon is better on special if you can get the duo though
Zues on special is fine by itself though
lament coral
just put poms into the special
carmine rivet
Yeah honestly Zag Aspect Spear until you get Hidden Aspect is good enough.
neon bramble
Pos special turns chaos shield into murder pinball
But Zeus is good on special as well
lament coral
@mild briar Zag spear is fine
dry ember
Guys, please note that Mike's chaos shield is likely unupgraded
lament coral
put Aphrodite on it, get Boom Spear hammer and Charge
neon bramble
Ah
dry ember
Please put that caveat out there
neon bramble
@cinder flower you really do need chaos shield at max blood
hexed fable
Achilles upgrade on spear is my got to
neon bramble
Just fyi
lament coral
last time I tried Hades I almost broke my finger clicking attack
cinder flower
@neon bramble my chaos shield is like level 4
mild briar
i dont really have it upgraded and want to save my upgrades ๐ฆ so i think hades spear is more dmg for me for now. Which boons would you recommend for non legendary spear? Any daedalus to look out for?
haha ๐
hexed fable
imma asumme any run with a spear is cursed
lament coral
all because I didn't get Flurry hammer
neon bramble
Oh ok, that's decent then @cinder flower
dry ember
Then you are good
hexed fable
because dad just shows you how to actually do it
dry ember
Sorry for doubting that but I just wanted to make sure...
dry ember
4 is def enough
mild briar
Honestly mostly looking for something for easy wins without much blood upgrades on anything to farm blood ๐
dry ember
You are good
neon bramble
Also @cinder flower
Dionysus special on Chaos shield is shockingly powerful.. don't dismiss it
lament coral
@mild briar Flurry for an attack build, Boom spear for special. You want Quick Spin either way.
neon bramble
And this is coming from someone who doesn't like Dionysus
lament coral
as for boons, you want only percentile scaling ones
so no Zeus, Ares, or Dio
cause Hades' buff doesn't work on em
mild briar
oh that explains my missing success
hexed fable
I did do a zag aspect on spear with dio and aphro
mild briar
ive literally only played those 3 on spear i think
hexed fable
with bouncing on the special
mild briar
So demeter hades spear would be good?
mild briar
๐ ty
neon bramble
Agree
But Demeter offers slow
Which is also low key awesome
And still scales well
lament coral
Hades needs the right hammers, that's gonna be your main headache
mild briar
to force aphrodite
lament coral
Quick Spin or suffer
mild briar
Hm. Another weapon that brings easy wins without blood invested into the aspects?
dry ember
Hera Bow
mild briar
I've failed on hades a lot, but gotten there relatively good
cunning urchin
Any weapon if you're good with your dashes.
lament coral
Chaos shield is the best blood investment you could make in the entire game
dry ember
And Nemesis sword level 1 if you know how to dash strike spam
lament coral
it's 16 blood and can win any heat
dry ember
Which means Hera Bow Nemesis or Zag Rail sure
mild briar
zag rail was my only win this patch so far, with ares attack
lament coral
what's good about Hera with no blood?
dry ember
what's good about Hera with no blood?
What
mild briar
although i managed to lose this run earlier today, so idk if i can be trusted with any build https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/221653014765764608/727093778585747506/unknown.png
lament coral
does it actually affect Dio's cloud?
neon bramble
That's why @lament coral
neon bramble
Yep
But only one will recharge
So you gotta take care of them
This is why i love SD
neon bramble
Yep
dry ember
Protip maxed acorn gives you more effective HP in Styx than Skelly
hexed fable
Fox out here giving my spear runs hope
lament coral
not if you drop 3 Defiances
in which case the Acorn does nothing and you've already died
inner heath
If you're having trouble even getting to the final boss, Broken Spearpoint might give you more effective HP than acorn in Styx too
neon bramble
Abuse touch of Styx dark and let enemies kill you in rooms in Styx of you are low hp before the end
lament coral
yep, Spear is still good for poison prevention
neon bramble
I routinely suicide on purpose in Styx boss rooms
hexed fable
0 heat though i should be fine unless I royally screw up
Manthro out here with the same strats
cinder flower
so what makes hangover so strong on chaos shield special
neon bramble
Every time you launch special it applies max poison from the bounces @cinder flower
dry ember
And on multiple targets
hexed fable
yeah I legit forgot to do the bounties on the fists at 0
cinder flower
never i see
neon bramble
It's really really strong
lament coral
and with Aphro/Dio duo, max stacks go up to 8
cinder flower
it's ticking for like 25 dmg a tick
hexed fable
just straight into 1 heat all the way up to 6
lament coral
and you can get Ares/Dio duo to make it tick faster
dry ember
Although Demeter outdamages Dio if you get a complete build.
inner heath
@cinder flower Lots of things. It stacks quickly. Additional Dio boons means it can inflict slow and give a straight damage buff when it's on 3+ enemies. If you get it with the aphrodite duo then you get even more stacks. Also Aprho has the boon that gives more damage to weakened enemies too. Easy privilege status too
neon bramble
Demeter is underappreciated by most of the community
hexed fable
Demeter slaps
neon bramble
Killing freeze is amazing with Chaos shield
cinder flower
but i only apply weak with bull rush right now
inner heath
Correct. You have to rush to multishield anyway, so you should be rushing through enemies to apply weak
lament coral
the problem with Demeter on Chaos is that you need the 10 stacks boom
hexed fable
I am always hoping for the max stack shatter buff
lament coral
without it the damage is really lackluster
inner heath
If you have the mirror upgrade, it's an additional +40% damage
hexed fable
then with the lazer you just have free dps
neon bramble
It's different
All you need is all enemies chilled
And they are 15% slower and take DOT
cinder flower
What weapon upgrades do i look for, faster bull rush and shield hits more enemies?
dry ember
Bull rush -> Special -> Dash to safety -> Bull rush -> Special -> repeat
inner heath
^ exactly that
dry ember
Faster bull rush
lament coral
I don't see how that's better than having poison or doom on everyone, or just zapping with Zeus
inner heath
Personally, I hate shield hits more enemies
dry ember
You already hit so many things with chaos shield
inner heath
Because it means that the shield can take a couple seconds to return to you
You don't need to hit more enemies, and being unable to bull rush again/block can be annoying
My ideal upgrades are bull rush faster + explosive return
dry ember
Explosive Return and Power Rush for me
inner heath
(Deal damage around you when catching)
neon bramble
I don't see how that's better than having poison or doom on everyone, or just zapping with Zeus
And this is why I say Demeter is underappreciated.
Additional 15% slow means at full chill, you slow enemies down by 55% plus do extra damage
lament coral
that hammer is actually a god send for special Beowulf builds
neon bramble
It's very effective
neon bramble
Does anyone mind if I post a Beo Demeter build for @lament coral to see?
inner heath
Dio also slows though, Manthro, and I think has better DPS but I'd have to crunch the numbers
neon bramble
Just to show how insane it can be
lament coral
you don't need to ask anyone's permission for that, this is the channel's entire purpose
inner heath
Or I should say also can slow
dry ember
I think you should italicize also, not can. Sorry I'm nitpicking xD
inner heath
Well, I would've in the original sentence if I put the word "can" in there. Now I'm emphasizing "can" because I missed it in my original statement
lament coral
come to think of it, I don't even know what Demeter cast does with Beowulf
inner heath
I don't want new players to think that dio automatically slows, so that emphasis was important to me
dry ember
Ok fair enough
lament coral
I wish Hera got Beowulf's treatment, with unique casts
lament coral
Aphrodite
versed tide
so this confirms artemis is worthless huh
inner heath
But check the pinned doc in the #h1-high-heat-strategies
versed tide
worst girl
inner heath
She's still very good, and can probably be the highest if you get the +crit damage boons and +crit chance
lament coral
she's better with big damage cause bigger numbers mean bigger crits
inner heath
But in terms of a 1:1 boon, aphro can be superior on many aspects
versed tide
she's better on big damage cause bigger numbers mean bigger crits
that's equivalent tho?
cunning urchin
Buying a Jerky and a random item that's also a Jerky right before the final boss with a crit build is fun.
versed tide
I guess one-shotting enemies with artur is fun
neon bramble
@lament coral this is a super strong Demeter cast build with Beo
dry ember
Imagine if you can stack 2 boons on core slots
neon bramble
Sorry, my Imgur wouldn't open
dry ember
Heartbreak Strike + Deadly Strike would be so nutty
versed tide
so technically artemis crits scale with anything that multiplies attacks, so i guess jerky would be really good
inner heath
Nyaanyaa, I can't tell if that's sarcastic or not. Does that stack damage or was it useless?
dry ember
I don't think that's sarcastic
cunning urchin
It stacks.
inner heath
I actually don't know if they stack or not
lament coral
@neon bramble oh, cast. Well, yeah, sure.
inner heath
Okay, thanks
versed tide
a single artemis boon alone is probably pretty bad
inner heath
Now I do know
lament coral
I thought you were talking about Demeter special
neon bramble
Just as effective with a weapon that has a fast special
dry ember
a single artemis boon alone is probably pretty bad
Laugh in Hunter Dash
neon bramble
Like chaos shield
versed tide
I assume crits are multiplicative so to make artemis work you need anything that increases overall damage like Jerky, Ares, Chaos ๐ค
inner heath
I also feel like pressure points is never a bad thing
lament coral
Arty dash is an exception that proves the rule
inner heath
Actually, are they multiplicative? Or just +200%?
So many things in this game are additive I just have to ask
cunning urchin
Hunter Dash and Deadly Flourish add a ton of damage on any melee build and most ranged builds.
neon bramble
Artemis dash on fists is stupid awesome, because you have a dash special attack on fists
hexed fable
Just dash more
cunning urchin
Crit damage is multiplicative, yes.
carmine rivet
Arty is best girl. I love Support Fire so godsdamn much.
inner heath
learning so much today
dry ember
Arty is indeed best girl
hexed fable
I can't hear you over all these arrow procs
lament coral
heresy 
dry ember
Tfw when Pressure Points is better with Doom than Ares own boons xD
carmine rivet
Violence means nothing without precision.
lament coral
I don't remember PP providing a guaranteed +100% damage bonus
neon bramble
I was very disappointed with how low damage doom flare was on Beo
hexed fable
That's cool but can you throw beyblades
lament coral
also, was PP nerfed?
dry ember
Yeah
lament coral
2% common, sheesh
dry ember
By -1% I think
inner heath
I think just 1%?
dry ember
Which actually is huge
neon bramble
Yep
hexed fable
It hurts
tepid ridge
Iโm not surprised in the least but that boon was still my child lmao
inner heath
It is, but it's also a 1 pom nerf, so not super hard to overcome
dry ember
1% is 33% decrease
neon bramble
Well... No
dry ember
2% of the time it works everytime.
neon bramble
It depends on what level boon you get
neon bramble
On epic it's only a 20% decrease
Ah ok
I'm determined to get another heat 40 clear on video for you @dry ember
I'm pissed I messed up that recording
neon bramble
Haha
dry ember
When I'm not bashing my head against the furies or Elysium bosses.
neon bramble
I have the furies down to a science now
Sisyphus is the key
Skip a full phase with him immediately after they go invulnerable
The timing on the drop is perfect
dry ember
Sisyphus is not an option I can have
inner heath
ngl I love Sisyphus and almost always used Bouldy, if only for the darkness farm and free healing
dry ember
Because LC4
inner heath
But I love the art so much on the new keepsake
neon bramble
Then use Antos
inner heath
That I don't think I'll ever change off it
neon bramble
There's a new keepsake?
neon bramble
Ah
hexed fable
Antos makes me so happy when I use it 
neon bramble
Antos is very good
inner heath
Same. Good happiness
dry ember
What am I looking at?
inner heath
Him stabbing Zag? I can't tell either
neon bramble
Hades is chilled
inner heath
Unless it was the aura
cunning urchin
It was the aura.
neon bramble
And killing @cunning urchin
neon bramble
The worst hitbox in the game is Maegara's
cunning urchin
I don't think it's buggy. It's just big.
dry ember
Have you tried dashing Nyaa?
neon bramble
I've been miles away from her and she still whips me
dry ember
I heard it's good.
neon bramble
Lol
inner heath
Well, I don't think it always matches the animation is the problem. Haven't there been complaints/vids/gifs in feedback about it?
cunning urchin
Yes, but that's not a bug.
inner heath
I mean, it could be? We don't know the code or what's going on there. Could be animation/hitbox differences, could be something with dash invulnerability on a lingering hitbox. Could be a lot of things.
But I guess I should've used "wonky" or something else so it's broad
mild briar
Does the zeus keepsake only guarantee a zeus boon the first floor, or does it guarantee a fast boon on the second floor as well, if i don't swap it out?
mild briar
so 100% swap out next floor?
inner heath
Not necessarily
errant narwhal
if youd like to keep the rarity bonus, you can keep it
inner heath
It won't guarantee another Zeus boon, but yeah, rare chance applies
mild briar
If i want to go for a zeus railgun build, do i want to swap it out 2nd floor for a duo effect?
dry ember
But let's be real here, 99% of people swap
mild briar
i think there was a duo that the jolted buff doesnt go away?
dry ember
Demter
inner heath
True. Basically the only reason to keep it on is if you're searching for a very specific boon and don't want it at common rarity
dry ember
Cold Fusion is the name
carmine rivet
Demeter's duo makes it last 10 secs after being jolted instead
mild briar
i want to go zeus keepsake first floor and acorn for styx. So zeus first floor,d emeter second, then zeus again?
ah i cant swap back
So zeus, demeter, +dmg over range, then acorn last floor?
inner heath
IMO Zeus -> Demeter -> something like coinpurse or broken spearpoint, depending on what you really need -> acorn
cunning urchin
Acorn for the last 2 biomes is very common at higher heats.
dry ember
I go God God Acorn Acorn
inner heath
if you want to keep those first/second/fourth biomes as those 3 keepsakes
dry ember
Because frat boy and cow are booli
mild briar
that sounds good
neon bramble
I sometimes go coin purse in Elysium
cunning urchin
I like Chthonic Coin Purse in Elysium when I'm confident.
neon bramble
Sometimes
inner heath
Acorn on third is also perfectly fine, yeah. Depends on where you're struggling/what you need
cunning urchin
Yeah, sometimes.
inner heath
I regularly pick between spearpoint, acorn, and coinpurse there
mild briar
any daedalus must haves for zeus railgun or some i 100% have to avoid?
dry ember
Avoid Delta Chamber
neon bramble
Depends on the build
inner heath
I never play it so I couldn't say
dry ember
Like a plague
neon bramble
For Zeus or Ares attack, eternal chamber can be fun, but you NEED extra dashes
Otherwise there's no point
dry ember
Good ones are Flurry Fire, Triple Bomb, Ricochet, Piercing, Explosive
mild briar
the one that makes the attack bounce is probably perfect, right
dry ember
For Zeus Rail
mild briar
ty!
hexed fable
Just go explosive and shotgun and go aa12 on people
dry ember
Tldr most are good, avoid Delta Chamber
neon bramble
Oh, we talking Hestia?
mild briar
default
neon bramble
Ah
hexed fable
I think he wants you to use delta chamber
mild briar
I heard that delta chamber gives the player massive abs
dry ember
Actually Spreadfire on Zeus Rail is kinda bad
mild briar
fair
dry ember
But it's not bad
mild briar
i want to stay ranged i think
dry ember
Delta Chamber will give you cancer.
mild briar
i failed on redacted end boss so often
dry ember
Fact
dry ember
It contains carcinogens banned in the state of CA
hexed fable
Rocket bomb plus cluster is just bigger shotgun
neon bramble
Targeting bomb is useless imo. Stay away
dry ember
Please stick to cage free organically raised no antibiotic Flurry Fire.
neon bramble
Has very niche applications
Good with Hestia, and that's about it
Even then, it's meh
hexed fable
I heard delta chamber will legit just force a minotaur to leave the arena
neon bramble
Because it slows enemy movement, but not attack. They can just jump out
hexed fable
Out of pure disgust
neon bramble
Lmao
mild briar
started the run with zeus keepsake, literally first item daedalus with flurry fire
kreygasm
i think thats unethical, honestly
should remake just to be unsuspicious
(honestly my only win this patch so far was with delta chamber and i chose it because i thought no reload was kinda nice)
hexed fable
It has it's uses
neon bramble
Yeah, like exchanging it at the anvil for two other hammers....
mild briar
any demeter boon i should look out for in a zeus build, the one i pick to enable the duo?
neon bramble
I still like the dire memefortune build I made on Lucy aspect
Any core boon for Demeter
dry ember
Yeah Frost Flourish or Mistral Dash
hexed fable
Yeah special, dash, cast, and call are all tier 1
neon bramble
I don't like mistral dash all that much
dry ember
Find Jolted and you can get Cold Fusion.
hexed fable
Grab those and you are on your way
mild briar
ty
hexed fable
Jesus manthro
hexed fable
Please
stiff jacinth
dry ember
Lol
inner heath
Good ole auto-correct making mundane situations 1,000x more hilarious
neon bramble
UHF... Classic movie
magic cedar
Does the healing from bouldy companion scale with max health?
inner heath
Nope
magic cedar
Thanks for the tip
inner heath
I think it's roughly 50 heals, if I'm remembering correctly. And there used to be some randomness to the amount of heals/obols/darkness you get. That may still be the case but I haven't been paying enough attention recently
I want to say ~30 darkness, 30 obols, 50 heals
neon bramble
I just had an Artemis boon appear smack in the middle of lava after witch circle..
I had max security on...
No way to get it except to dash out there
inner heath
gg nice run go again
neon bramble
I managed
inner heath
niiiiiiiiiiiiice
neon bramble
Took 30 damage
inner heath
That's not too awful
hexed fable
Man I didnt read the second half of max security the first time I used it and lost a few runs in asphodel ๐
wintry plume
you probably already know but give me my moment of glory
Divine strike on guan yu is 
neon bramble
Yes, the floor is lava @hexed fable ๐คฃ
I'm also prone to straight walking on spikes vs the furies
Dunno why
hexed fable
It was more I read "traps do more damage" and then skimmed the rest
dry ember
only 400% extra
hexed fable
Imma ask you to not say things that trigger my fight or flight response
dry ember
What could go wrong
hexed fable
neon bramble
Or Arthur aspect
hexed fable
Probably the coolest thing about the final fight is the melted footprints in the snow
tepid ridge
@noble bolt you got nectar because troves have something like a 1/20 chance to drop it as a reward along with whatever else they originally held. Hades is pretty finicky with which sources of pickup actually trigger the permanent currency-giving run upgrades, so you arenโt the first person to want trove nectar to operate like normal room nectar does.
mild briar
thanks for the help guys @dry ember , i don't think i could have had an easier run if i tried. Just went a bit slow to be careful ๐
https://i.imgur.com/xorE3dU.png
neon bramble
Nice
cunning urchin
Stygius's Thrust yeeting enemies waaaay accross the room is kind of annoying.
dry ember
That's why you need Tempest Strike so the enemies bounce off the wall back to you.
turbid needle
The combo could honestly use a rebuild from the ground up on non-Arthur.
cunning urchin
That double dash-strike hammer seemed to whiff one of the strikes a lot of the time.
turbid needle
Are you sure it's not because the crit on the first hit blew up the enemy?
cunning urchin
Need to dash-strike at enemies but not through them, it seemed like.
Maybe the numbers just overlapped.
flat brook
special > dash strike > dash strike > repeat
turbid needle
Yup.
You can even dash-cancel the opening frames of the Special and immediately go into Dash-Striking afterwards.
cunning urchin
That one's very fun with Excalibur and Heroic Greatest Reflex.
mild briar
jesus zeus railgun is op, 2nd win in a row, even though this time significantly less clean and with a lot less dmg and no demeter zeus duo
i can only imagine how strong this is once one actually has a weapon aspect for it ๐
versed tide
poseidon effect is great
poseidon support boons? boring
"we put knockback in your knockback"
cunning urchin
Sounds fun.
versed tide
it's just a stacked mechanic, like zeus, and doesn't really work with any other god
kinda eh
he even has a boon that pretty much says "take this so you don't suck as much against bosses"
cunning urchin
His t2 boons are solid.
dry ember
๐ฟ
unkempt pagoda
the whims of fate are doing me dirty
every run that i've have a decent build, i never end up with two chaos boons
versed tide
poseidon/zeus are my least picked because they have the same issue
with poseidon being worse against bosses in general
at least his dash is a thing
actually zeus is worst god in my ratings, poseidon is a good standalone
thick raptor
I love Poseidon's call for bosses. Zeus really shines when you can get the Demeter duo with 10 second jolt, I do like the lightning dash + dodge lightning as + basic jolt even for dodge damage
versed tide
you generally need to double or even triple down on zeus, that's the issue, his basic boons are generally awful when not backed by T2s, and also very dependent on the weapon you're using
shines in multi hit, worthless bad on slower weapons
thick raptor
Entirely fair
cunning urchin
Lightning Strike and Lightning Flourish are great.
versed tide
also he doesn't really have a lot of support boons besides maybe faster call gauge?
thick raptor
More call is always nice too
I find a zeus/poseidon setup is extremely nice for enemies, especially in styx and then rather functional for bosses
native holly
I dunno. I think Zeus's and aries sort of fall into similar categories of builds. You want to farm as many boons from them as possible to make a single really high damage attack
fierce thicket
how good would a zeus build be on chiron bow?
dry ember
Bruh I made it to Hades Phase on 42 heat with Lightning Strike Fists, no duo or legendary
versed tide
so yeah I feel like they could merge a bunch of zeus boons and he'd be better
true for ares as well, mostly the blade rift
dry ember
So no, Zeus tier 1 is not awful
noble bolt
@noble bolt you got nectar because troves have something like a 1/20 chance to drop it as a reward along with whatever else they originally held. Hades is pretty finicky with which sources of pickup actually trigger the permanent currency-giving run upgrades, so you arenโt the first person to want trove nectar to operate like normal room nectar does.
@tepid ridge thank you! I did eventually run across the distinction in the wiki ๐
dry ember
In fact, it's quite good
versed tide
shines on multi hit
noble bolt
can anyone help me understand how the Aspect of Hera works for the bow?
thick raptor
I tend to avoid Ares based mostly on not wanting to deal with his blade stuff, but that +10% all damage is decent and there are some doom hits I like (Achielles special)
cunning urchin
Bladerifts are great casts for melee or even pure cast builds.
versed tide
zeus t1s are bad 50% of the time, while boons that scale in % don't have that issue
doom is the reverse
you don't want doom on a spammy weapon generally
fierce thicket
i like doom on non chiron bow special, just spray doom to a bunch of foes
dry ember
you don't want doom on a spammy weapon generally
Also doomfists is a thing
versed tide
% damage is % damage, it's the same whether you're using slow or fast attack speed, zeus is significantly worse on slow attacks
unless they changed that
dry ember
But don't you think Zeus is better with faster attack rates? While %damage scales better with higher base damage?
cunning urchin
Doom is perfectly fine on fast-hitting weapons.
unique sinew
Hi, new here. Is it just me or is hangover kinda men on most things?
versed tide
depends on base damage, it's something you math
dry ember
I can say rn Deadly Strike Zag Rail by itself is terrible, if not useless.
unique sinew
**kinda meh
cunning urchin
Boons don't need to be good on every aspect. Variety is the goal.
dry ember
depends on base damage, it's something you math
We did the math
mighty ermine
i mean, % is scaling off of the base damage of the weapon. it's better on things with huge base damage (hestia, arthur) rather than things with lower base (rail, etc)
it isn't surprising for zeus to be typically better on things like the latter
cunning urchin
@dry ember I do math, you try math.
mighty ermine
lol
unique sinew
10% of 10 <10% of 60
mighty ermine
thank you
versed tide
someone is missing "DPS" in that formula
because it turns out, arthur attacks are slow
unique sinew
It has equal relative value on everything, but doesnt perform well compared to absolute increases on low base values
versed tide
10% of a weapon that does 100 damage every second = 10% of a weapon that does 50 damage every 0.5 second
dry ember
Zeus Lightning strike is 15 at Epic which is more than 100% damage addition on Rail and Fists
unique sinew
And then when you have the rapid fire rail
MMPH
hexed fable
and it bounces
dry ember
The largest damage addition is 100% with aphro if you high roll
versed tide
so yeah my comment about zeus wasn't whether he's strong or not my dudes
dry ember
zeus t1s are bad 50% of the time, while boons that scale in % don't have that issue
unique sinew
Also, stacking __ eclipse is good for powering up early
versed tide
just that every zeus boon only seems to double down on what he already does + his T1s cannot be used on some weapon because they are dependent on attack speed
dry ember
It's a direct counter example to what you said
mighty ermine
none of us ever really tried to posit that zeus is the best option 100% of the time
unique sinew
So, like most boons, they are situational?
versed tide
% boons aren't situational tho, they're just the same always
dry ember
I take problem with the statent that %boon don't have that problem
unique sinew
(Personal exception for best girl Athena)
hexed fable
versed tide
flat numbers are fundamentally situational
unique sinew
But a flat 10 can outperform a 50% betimes
mighty ermine
they're situationally worse than a good flat zeus value in some cases, which we've gone over
dry ember
We get how % work
hexed fable
If I am full committing to status build the % one's aren't really what I am looking for
dry ember
But at a certain threshold flat damage is better
unique sinew
I did get a silly % special build earlier today
dry ember
Which makes %damage worse than flat damage
versed tide
yes I know how zeus works thank you, I just wish it actually worked if you catch my drift
rare topaz
Pssst. Hi.
cunning urchin
No, I don't catch your drift.
rare topaz
Am I disrupting a lil talk here?
unique sinew
Ah, we have reached the fundamental disagreement here I think
versed tide
that zeus has a bunch of fundamentally useless options
hexed fable
not at all
versed tide
depending on the weapon
unique sinew
You might be, @rare topaz
hexed fable
probably
mighty ermine
zeus is in a good place, his boons are fine. he works for some builds and works less great for others. that's very standard roguelite fare
unique sinew
But l, depending on the weapon, so does everone!
versed tide
no, not everyone
rare topaz
That's like saying "Artemis is useless outside of bow." Gods are only as useful as you make them out to be.
cunning urchin
Nothing he has is actually useless. Some of it is better or worse in different builds.
rare topaz
You just need to think more creatively about your pool of options.
unique sinew
I generally do pick up a single Artemis if I see it for the crit chance
rare topaz
Yep.
hexed fable
Not every build has to be Aphro and Arty
versed tide
are you telling me zeus attack isn't useless on basic bow, or arthur
rare topaz
Duos etc., you think outside the box.
dry ember
Every boons are situational, there is not one that is universally poweful like you think with %damage
unique sinew
Zeus on bow special
rare topaz
It isn't. It's still a core boon that sets you up for duos AT THE WORST.
hexed fable
If you want to run zeus on arthur
then you build around it no?
you can make it work
unique sinew
Wait who is Arthur?
dry ember
are you telling me zeus attack isn't useless on basic bow, or arthur
Are you telling me deadly strike isn't useless on zag rail or zag fists?
versed tide
deadly strike โ
dry ember
You have a terrible double standard, that's what we are getting at
rare topaz
@unique sinew Sword's 4th aspect. That should be spoilered, but 4th aspect weapons aren't spoilers anymore apparently.
cunning urchin
Lightning Strike adds damage to any bow aspect. Extra damage is not useless. It's less than other options, perhaps, but it's not nothing.
rare topaz
^
dry ember
%damage boons are not universally powerful, same thing with Zeus
versed tide
you're thinking in reverse
rare topaz
And again, it's atleast a setup for duos.
unique sinew
Aspect ? ๐
mighty ermine
are you telling me zeus attack isn't useless on basic bow, or arthur
but we were just saying how % increase would be better than the flat zeus damage in the case of things like arthur? we're not saying zeus is always the best option lol
dry ember
The problem is that you are making sweeping statements that are false.
cunning urchin
^
versed tide
i'm not
rare topaz
Listen, I'm gonna have to be a little blunt here. With a name like "Darkness is useless >:(" you already set yourself up as someone trying to make inflammatory comments. You come in, tell everyone that a said God is useless, and despite everyone trying to convince you that God isn't, you refuse to listen. Why should we take you seriously?
dry ember
Again, this is your quote
zeus t1s are bad 50% of the time, while boons that scale in % don't have that issue
versed tide
zeus on arthur is fundamentally bad, for example, much worse than any other % scaling on a fast firing rail compared to zeus for example
rare topaz
So yeah, that's all.
mighty ermine
nobody here tried to make the argument that zeus is anywhere close to ideal on arthur
cunning urchin
Adding little damage is still better than adding no damage.
dry ember
We have problems with the later part lf the statement, that is boons that scale in % don't have that issue
versed tide
adding little damage is worse than adding any other % god that will inevitably appear during the run
MEANWHILE
cunning urchin
It's not like putting Lightning Strike on a bow means you can't clear the run.
rare topaz
@mighty ermine Back away from this chat. Spoilers are probably gonna be thrown about and you seem new. 
versed tide
whitholding a boon in the eventuality that zeus will appear isn't something you'd always do
cunning urchin
Attack boons don't appear inevitably.
dry ember
Deadly Strike on Zag Rail (barring Spreadfire) is fundamentally bad.
mighty ermine
@rare topaz ??? i've been around here for a long time lol
dry ember
What's your point?
versed tide
idk what is deadly strike my dude
versed tide
can't remember any name
mighty ermine
ohh no worries haha
rare topaz
@unique sinew I meant you xS
dry ember
Yeah @mighty ermine go hang out in mew player channel you newbie
mighty ermine
lmao
rare topaz
XD
dry ember
Bet you don't even clear high heat
rare topaz
Please forgive me
dry ember
idk what is deadly strike my dude
It's artemis attack
versed tide
ye so it's a %
dry ember
Gives % damage and crit
unique sinew
But I just wanted build heeeeelp๐ฅบ
dry ember
I'm here
rare topaz
Go on then
versed tide
it's not fundamentally anything
rare topaz
We're here :>
unique sinew
I came back after a hiatus and everything is different
unique sinew
Who is good, in broad terms, for the bow?
dry ember
Which aspect?
dry ember
Ah i see
versed tide
@rare topaz also named like this because I'm sitting on a mountain of darkness right now
unique sinew
Does it have to do with the weird red slurpees around the weapon I have picked?
dry ember
Then I suggest Hunter Dash (Artemis Dash) and either Heartbreak Strike (Aphro attack) or Deadly Strike (Artemis attack)
rare topaz
@versed tide Okay?
rare topaz
You're being very hostile.
versed tide
that's all
rare topaz
@dry ember Those are good suggestions
dry ember
You don't need to use special, just focus on dash striking with bow @unique sinew so you can utilize damage from hunter dash.
versed tide
just because we disagree doesn't mean there's hostility
rare topaz
don't okay? me
That is a hostile comment. I wish to move on from this conversation.
mighty ermine
yeah, you pretty much never want to do standing power shots with bow once you get used to dash-strike power shots. hunter dash makes this rhythm even more powerful
rare topaz
Aye aye.
unkempt pagoda
bruh
rare topaz
And hey, here's a little fun.
You could use Athena's Special if you want to, or switch Hunter Dash for Athena Dash if you want that added defense, and there are boons that really bolster that if you aim for it.
You can use any god you want, just open yourself up for experimenting a little bit. It really helped me improve as a player personally. (I'm still quite unskilled though XD)
unkempt pagoda
Why should we take you seriously?
bc everyone deserves to be taken seriously and not dismissed over something as inane as a discord nickname
but regardless
rare topaz
Please don't revive this conversation.
I guess I did come in here for a question.
I refunded all my darkness to unlock || a certain something that cost 8888 darkness. ||
I had some 1200-ish Darkness more, but I still have such a long way to go before I go back to what my mirror used to be.
Any tips for getting a lot of darkness?
rare topaz
Unfortunate.
dry ember
Just go 0 heat for fast clear, maybe FO2 also, but the time save is minimal.
rare topaz
What's FO2 again?
mighty ermine
forced overtime
rare topaz
Ah
native holly
Doesnt Demeter also offer a way to increase farming?
rare topaz
I don't think she does
cunning urchin
Poseidon keepsake in Asphodel for his farming boons. Easier to get them when you already have some core boons from other gods.
mighty ermine
and always check troves for darkness, of course
rare topaz
Yeah I need Trove RNG
dry ember
Buy darkness from wells and shop
cunning urchin
Chthonic Coin Purse or Cosmic Egg perhaps in Tartarus.
rare topaz
Cosmic to hope for Chaos boon maybe
cunning urchin
Coin Purse will help you buy Darkness and force troves as well as Chaos Gates.
rare topaz
That is true, but in the same vein, Chaos could just give a flat increase to darkness gain
fierce thicket
whenever i equip the egg, chaos disappears from the face of the earth
cunning urchin
Persuasion for rerolls.
rare topaz
Persuasion...
cunning urchin
Well, Chaos is underground.
native holly
Ah ok, demeter has healing buds, that's why I keep her in mind for farming
rare topaz
See I always get mixed up between Persuasion and Authority
native holly
Boons*
rare topaz
Aye
mighty ermine
demeter does have a literal farming themed boon to be fair lol
dry ember
Best way to remember is that you persuade the gods to give you something else
native holly
Lol, time to spend some time editing my how to video then lol
rare topaz
Well I unfortunately don't have enough Darkness to invest into Persuasion without literally having barely anything else.
dry ember
Yoy use authority to change the construction of a room
rare topaz
@dry ember Thank you!
native holly
Have to clarify she offers healing and not farming buffs ๐
mighty ermine
ah yeah, keys are very valuable with persuasion
native holly
@rare topaz I'm still in the midst of editing it together, so I at least haven't misinformed anyone with my vid lol
native holly
You right
rare topaz
And yeah they are supremely valuable
versed tide
how many "legit" runs would it take to max out darkness
cunning urchin
I don't do farm runs, and I've maxed out the side of the mirror I use after something like 260~300 hours.
dry ember
Realistically? I would say a bit more than 120
If you actually climb some heat and not solely focus on darkness runs
cunning urchin
I had three rerolls with Persuasion for quite a bit longer, though.
native holly
Actually, everyone here I'm putting together short beginner guides for people on YouTube to try and draw more people into the community. Any recommendations of questions new players ask you guys often?
cunning urchin
"What are the best pacts for x heat?" is probably up there.
The answer is: whatever is fun for you.
"What weapon should I spend my Titan Blood on?"
Same answer.
native holly
Haha I think I could give a little more info into that
Bimoth those a great questions actually
versed tide
isn't the question about what pacts are easier
cunning urchin
They're not asking what's easier, though. They're asking what's "best".
neon bramble
@naive tusk your challenge done me so wrong on my last try at heat 20...
Got cursed slash at the start of my run, then the anvil took it away, effectively crushing me for -60% max hp gain and no slash Regen ๐คฃ
versed tide
that's implied in the question though 
pacts that are "fun" and pacts that are "easy" aren't the same
elites having new movesets is fun, but not easy for exampl
naive tusk
@naive tusk your challenge done me so wrong on my last try at heat 20...
Got cursed slash at the start of my run, then the anvil took it away, effectively crushing me for -60% max hp gain and no slash Regen ๐คฃ
@neon bramble So you retain the HP penalty whaaat?
Be sure to 
that lol
native holly
Yeah that's nuts
dry ember
You are cursed but no slash
rare topaz
@native holly You should put a bit of a spoilery section though, split up the video a bit. Aspects and the pact come after you win I believe, so just kinda split it maybe into a portion that's safe for beginners with a disclaimer. "If you haven't beaten the final boss yet, then please don't continue past this portion of the video." Something along those lines.
neon bramble
You don't retain the HP penalty, but the hp max gains from hearts don't change
native holly
Also @naive tusk I took your correction from the first video and added it, thanks for taking the time to watch it!
The vid should be up later tonighy
neon bramble
So I was effectively only getting +10 per heart
native holly
@rare topaz yeah being very careful about spoilers. I'm basically keeping my beginners series limited to before players beat the first boss