feels like people who like zeus dislike chaos and vice versa
#h1-builds-and-combat
flat brook
main osprey
I just don't know how to use Zeus xD
cunning urchin
There's a shield?
narrow rampart
i also dunno how to use zeus
flat brook
i only know chaos, but apparently there's FOUR shields in total, huh
cunning urchin
The extra shields when you throw the special, right?
sacred idol
Wait, does Demeter not have a duo with Aphro, or is it just not in the wiki yet
oh wait, it's way out of date, still thinks CoL is 25%
flat brook
whats the dem/aphro duo? was it changed from the crystal beam one?
sacred idol
Twin Shot or Point Blank for Rama?
flat brook
i prefer point blank
sacred idol
mmm, it does seem like it's worth a bit more
flat brook
twin shot on rama forces you to shotgun stuff anyways since the range gets really short
with point blank you still have the option of long shots
cunning urchin
Twin Shot doubles your base damage before multipliers.
What's the damage on Point Blank?
flat brook
+150%
naive tusk
I don't like Twin Shot because of the shorter range and slower charge time but that's just me, I realize it will double your attack damage.
lament coral
Twin Shot is basically a better Point Blank
cunning urchin
Hmm yeah, Twin Shot would add more damage. Doesn't mean it's necessarily the better choice for bow 4.
main osprey
But without the option to go as far
Twin shot would also proc the special mark twice, actually
flat brook
twin shot might have better raw numbers, but the reduced range, while inconsequential with other bow aspects, actually really hurts rama
lament coral
it's like all those spear charge hammers they added, the one that gives Steady and the GY one that increases the flight time of the charge
I don't want that trash, I want Quick Spin
flat brook
at least shield got some really nice hammers for chaos aspects
sacred idol
yup, died from a random greatbow
lament coral
well, the one that grants 20% damage for 10 seconds after blocking is definitely interesting
flat brook
yes, that one is really good
lament coral
"here, use the shield the way it's meant to be used and deal more damage"
ok
I dunno how I feel about the special speed while dashing though
main osprey
It's a bit janky, imo
cunning urchin
I don't know how much Twin Shot really hurts bow 4. I think there's still a lot of room for discovery with the weapon. Just gotta try everything and see if you can find a way to make it work for you.
lament coral
Twin Shot and Explosive is what I ran with
mark, dash in, shoot
I tried runs without those and they were damn awful
cunning urchin
Never write off things just because you haven't figured out a strong strategy for it yet. Somebody else might. 
flat brook
i'm writing off twin shot because i tried it multiple times and it feels awful
sacred idol
Rama is... I don't really 'get it' so to speak
lament coral
the charge is just too slow
flat brook
but that's only my experience
sacred idol
Like, it hasn't clicked with me yet, I either don't know how to play it or had a bad build.
flat brook
rama twin shot + explosive shot: a full tight deadline to fully charge
sacred idol
I ended with arty special, aphro attack, athena dash, and still DD'd all day
lament coral
you can get the Bouncing Arrow but that only helps with rooms, does nothing for bosses
cunning urchin
Well, it's a very new weapon.
flat brook
triple shot + point blank shot feels the most promising
sacred idol
it was a double with athena special for a long time too
flat brook
both for clearing and bossing
cunning urchin
I'm still figuring out how to use Malphon lol.
sacred idol
There's no way to get the fast shot hammer?
flat brook
i dont think you can get flurry shot on rama, might be wrong though
yea, when firing close range you hit all 3
so its straight up superior to twin shot
lament coral
I see
flat brook
which is why it pairs nicely with point blank
cunning urchin
Seen a lot of people ask if you can get it during beta, too. Never seen anybody confirm they got Flurry Shot on it.
lament coral
wouldn't Explosive be better with Triple?
sacred idol
Sucks if you can't get flurry
because I REALLY just want faster charge
hermes gave me drift dash and some other thing
If he'd given me +attack speed...
flat brook
hermes attack speed doesnt increase charge speed it seems
lament coral
yeah, Explosive is +300% damage
so with 3 arrows, that's 900%
compared to 450% of Point Blank
flat brook
but remember that explosive reduces charge speed
sacred idol
oh damn
flat brook
so that 300% is a little lower since in the same time you get more charge with point blank
lament coral
you're already in Point Blank range, does it matter?
flat brook
i'm not talking about range, but charge time increases damage
sacred idol
well yeah, because it makes your attack delay slower than arthur...
lament coral
how long do you stay up close waiting for charge?
cunning urchin
Twin Shot + Triple Shot for 6 arrows. Sounds like a fine combo that would be just about okay and they should definitely allow in the next patch.
sacred idol
You mean "arrows"?
lament coral
cause that sounds like a surefire way of eating a divine knuckle sandwich
sacred idol
I sure do like the sound of six death waves
lament coral
Twin doesn't work with Triple
flat brook
you do charge a bit, releasing as soon as possible deals very little damage compared to even that little charge
lament coral
can't have em both
flat brook
at least that was my impression
livid comet
sup
cunning urchin
Hence why they should add it in the next patch.
lament coral
you can get a bit of charge with just Explosive and Triple
cunning urchin
It's a perfectly balanced idea.
livid comet
Like all things should be.
lament coral
like I said, I ran Twin Shot and Explosive and it was fine
together
so Triple and Explosive would be even faster
flat brook
maybe it is then
i just dislike twin/explosive because it really messes up my muscle memory
lament coral
I don't use perfect shots normally so it doesn't bother me
flat brook
even without perfect shots
lament coral
also, why is Rama's hammer just a knockback wave around you on shot?
Spear charge gets Steady and a damage pulse while you hold the charge, Bow gets a fart once you shoot?
lament coral
Spear's damage wave stuns unarmored enemies, that's safety and damage
not that spear's hammer is particularly desirable itself
flat brook
the wave does deal damage as well
but it must be really low since i dont even remember how much it is
lament coral
Bow's? Nah, it's just knockback
if an enemy hits an obstacle while being pushed they take damage as usual
and no, that doesn't make it better with Poseidon's toolkit
flat brook
really? then the damage i remember must have been the barrier thing
lament coral
yep
flat brook
makes the hammer even worse 👌
lament coral
it's mind boggling how Guan Yu, Beowulf, and Rama got shafted with their hammers while Lucy got bloody Infinity
dunno about Arthur's, haven't seen it
main osprey
It's decent
Doesn't combo with the generic that increases special AoE though, I think. Not certain
flat brook
its 75% iirc
lament coral
pardon? +75% aura size?
main osprey
It's big
lament coral
I could move into that aura
main osprey
Keep in mind, that doesn't affect the damage
lament coral
why would it affect the special size? The aura is a separate thing
main osprey
Because they're related. Thought it was worth mentioning
lament coral
you get a bigger projectile trap and more legroom to wiggle about while keeping the defense buff up
and slowing everyone to a crawl
main osprey
It's good, for sure
Plus there's one that increases the slow amount, iirc? Might be making that up
lament coral
wouldn't know anything about that, only did 1 Arthur run and saw nothing new
flat brook
i think the hammer both increases aura size and slow
lament coral
did a Poseidon run, too, and saw the gold-into-damage hammer
that one was pretty good
flat brook
why on earth do i never get a special on the first boons when running a special focused weapon, and the opposite with attack weapons? 
lament coral
couldn't figure out if it was additive or a base damage modifier though
flat brook
go rama: first 3 boons have no attack
go chaos: no special boons ever
lament coral
just take a DoT special with Rama
main osprey
Tbf, you don't need special boons on chaos
lament coral
that's how I won my runs with bad attack hammers, special DoTs
get +4 special arrows and machine gun people
Rama's special flies in a relatively straight line and even has built in bounce if you miss
and you can just hold the button to shoot
flat brook
i did a rama special run with that hammer and zeus
it melted normal rooms but was really slow on bosses
flat brook
it was slow with bosses because of that
even with 7 arrows per special zeus seemed to trigger only once
gray tapir
Do any of the heat options change the new ||charon|| fight besides their usual % increases?
main osprey
Not that I've noticed
But I don't remember if I've fought him without heat, so I might be wrong
gray tapir
I had my first go at him today on like a 4 heat run with janky nonsynergistic pickups and it went alright
the moves seem quite telegraphed, and I even managed to bounce some attacks back, but I don't know if those dealt damage
am I understanding it right that there's no way to force the fight, you just have to be lucky that it's available and then you can choose whether to go for it
main osprey
Yup
flat brook
charon dealing A HUNDRED damage per oar swing made me not fight him at tartarus anymore
gray tapir
does it scale up per biome or something?
I think I fought him in biome two
cuz I remember going barge of death afterwards
main osprey
...I'm not sure that I've fought him outside of Tartarus?
lament coral
it's entirely random
flat brook
you can fight him in every area
lament coral
could be anywhere except Styx
gray tapir
I guess you want the reward early
gray tapir
but even just its effect on the last biome could be worth it
flat brook
fighting him in elysium with TD2 on is a bit of suicide though
gray tapir
is that the time limiter?
lament coral
the one I died on was the first shop in Tartarus
gray tapir
how do people like the new relic that gives you %inc for unupgraded boons
flat brook
i feel like aspho is the best time to fight charon
lament coral
it's meant to help you out early on
gray tapir
it seems pretty alright to me
flat brook
you're not underpowered like in tartarus and you dont have to worry as much with TD like in elysium
main osprey
It's the perfect keepsake for fighting the final boss, for me :P
gray tapir
I don't remember what the original effect was, but mine was still tier 1
main osprey
I use it during no boons runs, it's crazy good
gray tapir
oh lol no cussing bot
lament coral
personally though, with how the system is now rigged to keep offering you gods until you have 4, I don't think it's particularly useful
gray tapir
okay, it was still tier 1 so it must have been butt
main osprey
Old effect was bonus trap damage to baddies
gray tapir
ah, which is a chaos effect now?
flat brook
i dont know why they nerfed family favorite 😦
lament coral
Chaos?
main osprey
And shop item
main osprey
Both
gray tapir
oh ok
lament coral
FF was busted
gray tapir
which one was that
lament coral
4 guaranteed gods + Hermes meant you always had +5% damage
gray tapir
oh the green buff?
lament coral
yeah, +% damage for each Olympian boon
gray tapir
isn't that still ingame? or is it just numbersnerfed?
flat brook
a lot of people still used priv status
lament coral
it was reduced by 1% per Olympian
gray tapir
I see
main osprey
I thought it was always per Olympian, huh
flat brook
it was 6%, now its 5%
lament coral
it was, they just reduced it from 6% to 5%
main osprey
Ah, okay
wide knot
Well I'm at hades again. with 35 max health 😄
gray tapir
🤞
main osprey
You got this!
wide knot
This should be fun
lament coral
sounds like a Cursed Blade, am I right?
main osprey
It's totally doable!
gray tapir
how fast is a fast run for people here
main osprey
Mine are generally mid-20s
gray tapir
the time limit thing has swung between hard and free and hard several times for me
flat brook
below 15min is fast for me
wide knot
Nooppppppe that run was doomed 😄
wide knot
It was pretty funny getting there though.
gray tapir
13m is my fastest time, think it might even have been heated
either with the spellsword or some busted spear special thing
flat brook
my fastest is 11 but it's with unnerfed spreadfire
gray tapir
in this patch my fastest is probably mid 20's lol
wide knot
What's ambrosia for?
gray tapir
super nectar
past patio
i just started the game have about 4 hours now on it. i got to the bull but was confused how to stop his charge
main osprey
Later in relationships
gray tapir
you can make him run into walls
wide knot
Ah okies
gray tapir
or the pillars
past patio
ahh
main osprey
Careful dodge timing
gray tapir
remember you can dodge through most things in the game
wide knot
Need to work on the ultimate waifu dusa.
gray tapir
dusa is a good one to max first ||because you can max somebody else straight afterwards||
past patio
i saw with the nectar you can get items from it, is that what youre talking about
i just put them all into cerebus
gray tapir
good boi
main osprey
Essentially, yes
gray tapir
some of it is just lore/dialogue, some unlocks like super special abilities you can use X times per run
main osprey
You can gift it eventually, like nectar
wide knot
Is it just me or is Aphrodite the worst of the boon lot? I really don't like anything from her 😦
gray tapir
If you're not doing a cast build, then getting weak cast + aoe iceblast is a great way to proc priv status
plus makes you more tanky ofc
main osprey
Not sure, don't think Nyaa has updated the spreadsheet yet, if it needs to be
leaden verge
how do you unlock the new wpn types from this patch?
main osprey
There's a pin in #h1-story-discussion
gray tapir
force god meeting, suicide force god meeting, until you get keyword
livid comet
WHAT
errant narwhal
im a fan of aphrodite's boons and combining them with athena's boons+exposed for privileged status for that Big Damage
gray tapir
they nerfed the hp one though, didn't they
main osprey
Hello Nyaa :P
gray tapir
I feel like that one used to be worth going for aphro early by itself
livid comet
The HP boon is one I never get
I always go for her strike or flourish
and then try for sweet surrender
fixation if possible
and any duos she has with other gods I happen to have on hand
aph's boons have I think the highest percent increase to damage on your special and attack
scale really well with poms and such
gray tapir
yeah, I used to use aphro often for spear special shenanigans
since she turned them into insane torpedos
livid comet
^
livid comet
athena makes things comfy
gray tapir
ares and dio are the only gods I'll actively avoid
and I don't think dio is bad, my buddy likes him
just doesn't fit my playstyle
ares is just like, bad, unless the stars align
rare topaz
👀
lament coral
Ares has a very narrow application window
gray tapir
I don't even know how reasonable it is to get all the boons in the current patch
since I know they've revamped talents and tiers and dependencies
livid comet
@rare topaz I thought you weren't gonna be back here for next month or so 👀
lament coral
if you're using his Doom, you need his duo with Athena; if you're using his Blade, you need his duo with Artemis
wide knot
Also is it intended that cursed blade also reduces your healing by 60%?
lament coral
without em he's just ok and only on specific weapons, like Chaos
gray tapir
chaos shield special?
lament coral
@wide knot did you get it from the anvil?
livid comet
Zeus is kinda cruddy too
rare topaz
Yeah. Doesn't automatically make him bad though, and he really doesn't need that much alignment. Doom is great, especially when you get it to stack or have it instantly apply. In the same vein, Ares cast has wonderful duos (I just had a Chaos Shield run with legendary Ares + legendary Demeter, with Ares and Demeter duo, and that MELTED.)
wide knot
From hammer
rare topaz
@livid comet Surprise surprise.
gray tapir
I have a soft spot for zeus due to his old dash
wide knot
I'm using the heals you for 80% of your darkness gems trait
main osprey
60% now, iirc
wide knot
and it reduces the healing from that by 60%
rare topaz
I'm off to sleep, just thought I'd weigh in.
livid comet
it's now 60%
lament coral
nah, Zeus is a popular pick with Fist and Rail
gray tapir
zeus cast I feel is ok
livid comet
no, his cast sucks, his dash sucks unless you main zeus
gray tapir
and attack and special are decent with several weapons
lament coral
and even Chaos, sometimes
livid comet
his flourish and strike are decent
neon bramble
Zeus cast is almost worse than normal cast with no boon
Because you can't even lodge it
livid comet
^
rare topaz
Zeus's call is nice too
gray tapir
means you can pick it up easier though
livid comet
I for one, like Boiling Blood
neon bramble
It means you can never do +50% damage
rare topaz
Boiling Blood is good when you're not running an attack or special centric run or just desire CC
The damage reduction is neat if you seek that also
neon bramble
Boiling blood is a boss destroyer
livid comet
Boiling Blood is good when you're not running an attack or special centric run or just desire CC
wat
livid comet
did you mean abyssal?
livid comet
rare topaz
Boiling is amazing though
livid comet
I was about to crucify you
rare topaz
XD
livid comet
uhhh
gray tapir
artemis cast sword used to be my jam
but it's become significantly harder to get all the pieces I think
rare topaz
CC and damage reduction, and it's also good in runs where you don't intend to use attack or special
gray tapir
since +casts is now hermes (and nerfed) and double cast is now a duo boon with an otherwise nonsynergistic god
rare topaz
@livid comet Indeed. In cast runs it's quite delicious.
In cast builds you won't attack or special a lot of the time, so.
I am going to sleep now though
Nn lovelies, take care of yourselves 
neon bramble
Even with cast builds I don't see how you won't attack or special all the time
Even with beo
main osprey
Night! Let Hypnos bite! (That puts you to sleep, right?)
rare topaz
livid comet
cya
neon bramble
And ironically, beo can't use either boiling or abyssal blood anyway
gray tapir
beo like, replaces each cast right?
rare topaz
@livid comet Pls kindly explain to Manthro why, in some cast runs, you don't need to attack and special all the time
BUT YES
gray tapir
I haven't unlocked it yet
gray tapir
ah is that considered spoilers?
main osprey
Bai~
Not necessarily, but some people still want to find out for themselves. Hence why some discussion about them goes to #h1-story-discussion
livid comet
cast runs....
well
Ice Wine requires you to not do much attacking
or rather attacking is optional
gray tapir
I wish there was an indication for where dislodged casts are lying around
main osprey
Lmao
gray tapir
could be for out-of-screen casts only
main osprey
Someone mentioned that recently in #hades-feedback
gray tapir
I don't know how much of an issue it is nowadays
but casts used to fly out of screen or clip through walls all the time
or like, sit in the middle of empty space where you can't grab them
neon bramble
It still happens on occasion.
Lernie is a culprit
gray tapir
so like a smallll magnetic effect and UI would be great
neon bramble
I swear they eat those things
gray tapir
new hydra is such a pleasure
neon bramble
There is a small magnetic effect when you get close to a stone already
gray tapir
yeah but that doesn't solve the problem of "cast out of range for me to grab it"
brave seal
been out of the game for a bit. what's mirage shot do
gray tapir
it just redefines what out of range means
livid comet
@gray tapir it's just a short jaunt into the magma, what's the problem?
brave seal
different from skipping stone?
neon bramble
Skipping stine was renamed
dry ember
Skipping Stone is the old name
neon bramble
To mirage shot
brave seal
zzz
livid comet
Dual Shot dead?
dry ember
Dual Shot is indeed ded
livid comet
rip artemis
dry ember
Dual Shot has evolved to Mirage Shot
neon bramble
Artemis still plenty powerful
gray tapir
artemis used to be like unstopable
dry ember
yup, I don't even touch the cast side of Artemis
gray tapir
because scaling casts and crit are like the best ways to deal damage
and artemis does both
dry ember
The Crit side is still like really good
with Hunter Dash being one of the best damage multiplier
and Support Fire being borderline OP on some weapons
gray tapir
Artemis >> Athena >> rest of the gods >>> Ares
dry ember
I think all of the Gods are really strong
gray tapir
I think demeter is alright except for her awful cast
dry ember
and not like a kneejerk reaction either
gray tapir
but her cast aoe thing makes up for it
neon bramble
Try her cast on || Beo ||
dry ember
The only one that can use some love is Poseidon
neon bramble
Also, they did improve crystal beam
And gave it a cool support boon called || glacial glare ||
dry ember
his boons have anti synergies with a lot of stuff and Huge Catch dilutes the pool
gray tapir
on launch day my buddy and I were sure the skill was bugged or broken somehow
like, they had intended for it to stack chill or something
but accidentally disabled it
or last-minute balance changed it but forgot to triple the damage
is ||glacial glare|| the one where it ||flips||?
neon bramble
I honestly can't remember the last time I saw huge catch except for the story event when it first appeared @dry ember
I may even go so far as to say never
gray tapir
my buddy doesn't like poseidon at all, but I feel like he's quite ok
his dash is excellent, almost old-zeus tier
and his aoe/wallbang abilities can steamroll styx
his cast is also decent and you can do stuff like fire it against a wall continuously
it does suck to get just the metascaling rewards though
but I would have probably liked to see them if I wasn't done with metascaling at this point
neon bramble
No.. || Glacial glare adds extra time to crystal beam, and it also makes it inflict chill ||
It's excellent @gray tapir
At epic it adds 3 or 4s
Something like that
gusty elm
if i have multiple boons causing doom, is the doom damage i do when hitting one attack just that of that specific attack's boon, or the total of all my doom boons?
serene nexus
That one attack I believe. I’m not sure if it gets overwritten or ignored until you get the ability to stack doom
gusty elm
yeah, so i actually do have the ability to stack it
so if i then hit that person with doom from multiple sources, does it just increase the damage from the first doom hit by the amount from the stacking boon, essentially discarding (most of) the damage from the other doom source?
drowsy plover
is this a bug or a feature? (I like it and I'd like it to be a feature) spoilered because it's about the hidden shield aspect.
|| when I use Beo shield I can cast after my rush is launched to activate the dragon rush effect? It's really helpful ||
neon bramble
It's a feature
drowsy plover
I wish I'd known that last time I used it, feels like less downtime to perform repeatedly
re: doom stacking, I think that you're right, it does lose quite a bit of theoretical damage, but overall stacking doom does help with dps, as otherwise the second doom is just ignored.
versed tide
doom stacking boon is perhaps one of the worst in the entire game
but don't quote me on that
drowsy plover
It's less than ideal and the niche use for doom stacking I found is from multihit attacks, the bow special being used to apply doom to a wide group in normal rooms can then be used point blank to apply several stacks
versed tide
if you have "the right weapon" you'd rather have any other kind of boon
neon bramble
For example....
drowsy plover
I don't disagree, but sometimes you're just rolling with what you get
neon bramble
Or fists
versed tide
12 extra damage for opportunity cost of epic boon
needless to say, doesn't strike me as good
versed tide
yes but that's delayed damage
neon bramble
I melted everything
drowsy plover
it would be nice to get higher returns to balance it out
versed tide
this game has scaling issues with flat numbers
drowsy plover
I know it's cheesy and getting boons from multiple gods that synergise is ideal, but I sometimes wanna dedicate myself heavily to one god for theme fun
versed tide
doom/zeus/artemis use flat numbers = highly reliant on weapon attack speed
anything that is a % scales equally
drowsy plover
artemis? doesn't she work well with chunky hits too, or is my brain just attracted to the potential?
neon bramble
So, you would rather punch an enemy once and let doom tick before hitting it again due to opportunity cost?
versed tide
artemis arrows
neon bramble
Or you would rather beam 100 dooms into an enemy in 5s and take the stacked damage
versed tide
I would instead not take doom at all
acoustic nova
Eternal chamber is pretty cool I think. I had a run with it and zeus, 19 heat, melted everything
drowsy plover
do you think doom is that weak? I really like it
versed tide
doom is not weak, you just don't put it on fast firing weapons
drowsy plover
I really enjoyed poison (now hangover) at first but then got v jaded about it's damage potential
neon bramble
Especially on weapons with relatively low damage per hit, such as fists
acoustic nova
Just finished a run with Demeter cast. I kinda like it now! that cold beam boon sells it.
drowsy plover
Voidz have you done the self target boon with it?
acoustic nova
yeah, but I like the artemis duo more
neon bramble
It also allows you to hit an enemy then focus on another instead of having to continue attacking until it's gone
drowsy plover
that's kinda bananas to use
acoustic nova
the self target... I don't want to bother actually aiming
neon bramble
You put doom on fast weapons when you go for merciful end @versed tide
acoustic nova
doom is worth it on fists if you can get the +damage/hit boon, otherwise it's a waste.
neon bramble
Because merciful end triggers the entire stack
acoustic nova
or other fast weapons
drowsy plover
I used it with +7.5 seconds on weak, I wasn't sure if the doom ticks all the way through the weak duration or not
acoustic nova
I'm also not sure on Doom mechanics, if you have doom attack and doom special - does the highest damage one replace the other?
dry ember
I think it goes by what is applied first
drowsy plover
I'm unsure, but I feel as though you shouldn't need a seperate boon to make use of having the same status on several attacks
acoustic nova
eh, it's very rarely that I do something like that.
had a run a few days back on fists, where I took the doom special because it was endgame and a free slot
drowsy plover
I'd like it to be an option to take the same god for attack and special in more cases though
acoustic nova
I take it with zeus usually. I try to do zeus on as many primaries
neon bramble
All in all, you should only be taking one type of doom for the weapon you're using.
For some weapons it makes sense on attack, for others, it makes sense on special, or revenge.
That's why there's more than one type
drowsy plover
you should get little a poseidon with all that zeus, the duo boon 
acoustic nova
yeah, I usually go poseidon dash
drowsy plover
I'm still a scrub and look for athena dash on every build I run :x
acoustic nova
- as many knockback boons possible, and the duo if I am lucky
for poseidon all you need it the dash :V
it's my favorite dash really
acoustic nova
yeah, I like poseidon attack on most weapons, but if you are being economical with the slots a dash it enough
drowsy plover
I'll try it some more, I need to stop playing too scared
acoustic nova
for instance if I am doing zeus/poseidon I'll do zeus attack poseidon dash. Then one I get jolt and rupture you have 2 status on them, so + damage. Then see whatever other gods I get, and who I have more of
athena dash is p dope tho
artemis dash only when you don't really care about synergies or protection or whatever, when you want big numbers
dio I don't really use, aphro I take it occasionally if I don't want the aphro attack
drowsy plover
yeah I am very tempted by that
acoustic nova
ares very rarely, and demeter is growing on me
for zeus builds I'll take poseidon if possible and hope for the duo :V
drowsy plover
I am still unsure of demeter overall, she's still new to me
acoustic nova
demeter stronk
drowsy plover
I really like that 'your boons become common' one, much potential
acoustic nova
yeah, just my last run got it in styx
red crystal cast booyah. And demeter artemis duo. Last boss melted 😦
neon bramble
Demeter is very good as you go higher in heat
She seems meh for low heat, because you don't really see the impact she can have
hidden pike
poseidon's dash is pretty good on rail too, especially lucifer where you really need the space
that alongside the "water explosion on collision damage" melts everything in styx
acoustic nova
yeah, poseidon dash just makes styx not a problem anymore
flat brook
does anyone know if the styx "fountain" in the sack chamber counts as a fountain for strong drink?
acoustic nova
and yeah, take the water explosion over the + wall damage. it's much better
I think it does
any fountain does, right?
hidden pike
I think it does, I remember getting full health from it last time
acoustic nova
yeah, it gives you full health for sure. Haven't checked if it also gives bonus damage
but it wouldn't really make sense not to
flat brook
i'll take a strong drink in styx for science then
this boon shouldnt appear in styx imo
untold vortex
It does count as a fountain
untold vortex
I disagree with that, it appearing in styx can mean the differance between a W or an L
neon bramble
I've had +35% damage from strong drink by the end of my run 🤣
I think that's maximum
neon bramble
It applies to all damage, it's an excellent boon
acoustic nova
yeah, I take it when I see it
even if common. full heal is worth it even with +3% damage
flat brook
does it heal to full even with lasting consequences 4?
neon bramble
No
acoustic nova
I don't know
neon bramble
It takes what you have for max hp and reduces by whatever LC you have set
acoustic nova
Lasting consequences 4 is a bit too painful for me :D. How do you even play it? With the rechargeable death defiance
acoustic nova
I can't beat it on high heat
flat brook
i dont, just theorycrafting
neon bramble
Because stubborn Roots bypasses LC4
neon bramble
Stubborn Roots is amazing
dry ember
The best way to deal with LC4 is ... just get used to it
acoustic nova
"don't get hit" eh?
neon bramble
Use SD, instantly revive when entering a room on purpose, let Stubborn Roots Regen you while you fight
dry ember
Your biggest choke with LC4 and SD are boss fights
Equip an Acorn
Sometimes you will get bad hallway rooms
Just try your best to get out. Things like Divine Dash and Athena Aid are good.
neon bramble
I use SD exclusively
acoustic nova
yeah, maybe I'll switch to it. I don't really melt death defiances that much
dry ember
Stubborn Roots is nice but on high heat getting a specific duo can be tough.
acoustic nova
I'll do a run now, let's see how ti goes
dry ember
But with LC4 there is only one way to go
acoustic nova
go with hermes feather, or force athena demeter for stubborn roots?
dry ember
Erm which weapon?
acoustic nova
probably fists for a first try
dry ember
I go God God Acorn Acorn
acoustic nova
if I take feather
neon bramble
Plume runs are fun if you can clear rooms fast
Just take A call and get second wind from Hermes if you do a plume run
acoustic nova
if I take LC4 I can drop some heat from other stuff
flat brook
either what foxhope said or coin purse god god acorn
neon bramble
He won't offer it otherwise
flat brook
switching elysium god for acorn if you feel not that confident
acoustic nova
A call?
neon bramble
Aid
acoustic nova
I don't understand 🙂
dry ember
How high in term of heat?
acoustic nova
20
neon bramble
God help boons, that you use to call their power
dry ember
Manthro means get an RT boon
versed tide
I forgot to remove stubborn defiance and it broke my run and I lost
why does this exist 😠
dry ember
I'm not trying to be obnoxious but there are better options than going LC4 on 20 heat imo.
dry ember
Oh lol
neon bramble
Stubborn defiance is amazing @versed tide
dry ember
Perfer example of different strokes for different folks.
neon bramble
Yeah, but he doesn't understand how to use it which is why he thinks it sucks
neon bramble
Ok
Let's say you have a bad round in a room.
You have 200 max hp, and you only have 10 left.
Before you kill the last enemy, (or after if there are traps you can activate)
Let yourself die and revive to bring yourself back to 30%
Then next room you get your revive back
You can do this in every room
versed tide
it just means trading room difficulty for boss difficulty
flat brook
is it just here that the sound for when you have no DDs left was changed?
its super loud and startling and when i posted feedback about it i was downvoted
neon bramble
Correct @versed tide
dry ember
From the patch notes, it appears that they have toned it down a bit.
flat brook
unless my game didnt update automatically, it's still very loud
the old one was perfectly fine 😦
neon bramble
But here's the interesting thing @versed tide
If you see Patroclus in Elysium, he increases the effectiveness of SD by an additional 50% for 15 turns.
If RNG is on your side in Styx, you can often carry that into Hades fight, which means you have an 80% min revive, which is nearly equivalent to 2x DD
So, it's not as bad as you think it is
dry ember
Patty heals an additional 50% to a total of 80% heal upon death
I understand what you meant, but perhaps you can edit it to be less confusing.
dry ember
Np!
flat brook
can charon appear later in the run if you didn't fight him before?
livid comet
support
fire
@versed tide Only if you don't use the dark regen talent and don't have persuasions or authorities
versed tide
coin rooms should be worth at least 200 considering how expensive shops become with heat modifier + you get so many coins doing regular rooms instead + alternatives are better
unless people actually spend a lot of money on pools
peak iron
I think coin rooms are fine as they are. I usually just use them as "Oh, I don't really want a Pom as a room reward, I'll take the cash and use it on something later."
Typically a boon or a light of ixion or something.
versed tide
but you can reroll coins
so the idea is, usually, you'll have coin + (any other useful room) and in the rare case where you have coin + pom, you can reroll coin
peak iron
I much prefer fated persuasion. I rarely use the alternative.
peak iron
It takes more darkness to max out fated authority than it does FP. I'd highly recommend grinding out darkness for it. Just set your heat to 0 and grab the Egg
Use chaos boons to get enhanced darkness rewards.
versed tide
that alone means it's too expensive to begin with
devs don't know what to do about all that spare darkness players have hoarded
peak iron
To each their own, I suppose.
I enjoy playing the game for the sake of playing the game, so grinding out darkness is just a chance for me to experiment with different weapons and boons and learn more about the characters.
carmine rivet
@naive portal Hide behind the two stable "pillars" in the room or go right up next to him. The yellow aura he emits is a safe zone from the lasers.
versed tide
coin rooms aren't good but I think gem rooms are maybe the worst room type
if darkness room is 1/5th of a centaur room, gem room being 20 coins isn't the same equivalence
peak iron
Gem rooms definitely do not give enough gems T.T They should give 50 bare minimum.
versed tide
the only way to get max hp is dark/heart rooms, but you get coins from almost everything
so gem room reward is just a glorified golden pot
modest urchin
Almost all my gems come from prophecies, fishes or troves compared to the room rewards. I also hope they can revamp it somehow.
hardy epoch
Several people have mentioned the lack of gems for rewards in the feedback channel so be sure to thumbs up those
acoustic nova
yeah that was an easy win
went with arthur instead of fists, stubborn defiance, -100 heals
never even died, probably went a bit too crazy on the cheese
sword lifesteal still heals you
naive portal
thanks!
dry ember
wait why would you go Cursed Slash with Excalibur
acoustic nova
yeah it's slow, but who cares? you have damage reduction
livid comet
cursed slash works best on high attack speed weapons
acoustic nova
I was also running demeter and abyssal slow
acoustic nova
everyone else was slower than me :V
acoustic nova
yeah, build in in the boast channel
never even got to use stubborn roots. Had it, but never actually died
livid comet
hmmm
acoustic nova
I'll have to try it with something not arthur
probably a lot more difficult
this run was just laying the slow filed and whaling on them
peak iron
Can anyone tell me how you get Flame Wheel's Release?
livid comet
hmm?
peak iron
It's one of the items on the Fated List for Charon's Well
But I cannot for the life of me find it. I'm not sure if there is a special condition that needs to be met in order to find it.
untold vortex
It's only availible in elysium charon wells (doesn't include the well just after the Lernie fight)
neon bramble
Coin rooms become far more important when you crank two things on the pact
-
convenience fee
-
underworld customs
With underworld customs it is VERY important you pick up a "throw away" boon in Tartarus and Asphodel to sell off after completing the biome, otherwise you sabotage your build and end up underpowered
Coins don't seem important now, but as you climb heat, you'll see how useful they are
Also, Charon shop boons typically roll high rarity/duos just like miniboss rooms do, so you want to buy them.
mortal forge
Okay so, I've got two choices for the spear I'm stuck between based on how they effect the spear's attack.
There's triple jab which apparently creates a spread pattern of three strikes. Does it affect the dash-strike?
Serrated point is guaranteed to affect the dash strike, which is going to be my choice unless the former is true.
acoustic nova
too bad charon is hard
neon bramble
Triple jab only if you have CC on attack like frost strike or Zeus
Otherwise, skip it
mortal forge
How wide is the spread?
neon bramble
Serrated point is better overall
mortal forge
And I assumed so.
mortal forge
I've also got the rapid jab upgrade. The one that allows you to hold the button to machine-gun thrust it.
Which has become incredibly overpowered already with my three dashes allowing for about six hits per burst of movement.
holy hell this is strong.
mortal forge
good to know
median oyster
does anyone know if lighting reflexes works with athena dash?
or do you deflect the attack before it has a chance to hit you
neon bramble
Yes it works with all dashes
toxic wolf
^I literally just popped in here to ask that
oblique elk
does anyone have advice for strats w the sword
I can't win w it to save my life
turbid needle
Don't use the combo attack outside very low Heat, or even at all.
(this excludes the sword's Legendary Aspect, its combo is hella good)
oblique elk
yeah I'm stuck on h0 lol
by combo you mean m1m1m1 right
I just don't vibe w the sword but also it's easy titan blood so
turbid needle
Use your Dash-Strike, or fish for World Splitter or Flurry Blade.
oblique elk
gotcha ty
turbid needle
Yes, mashing M1, where Zag swings twice and then thrusts.
Cruel Thrust is a powerful Hammer in theory, but the time it takes to use the entirety of the combo and its low base damage just make it not worth it.
oblique elk
I got the daed hammer where it gives you the dash smash and return and it was Awful ew
turbid needle
I'd love Snap Nova if it weren't for the return.
oblique elk
yeah I had cruel thrust last run and wasn't a fan
yeah me too
does dashing reset the swing combo>
turbid needle
Sometimes?
I used to main the hell out of Stygius.
It's part of why I don't care for the combo.
You have to stay rooted too long and you end up getting the 20 and 25 damage swings way more often.
Flurry Slash and World Splitter get around that, though mind that the Dash-Strike window is super long and you may need to double-tap M1 in order to get your standing attack.
neon bramble
does anyone have advice for strats w the sword
I can't win w it to save my life
Try nemesis aspect with flurry slash + divine strike.
If you can also get cursed slash with it, you'll be immortal
It also works well with zeus attack
Zag aspect is very difficult to control, and I don't recommend it until... Well... Never
cunning urchin
Difficult to control? I don't agree with that.
neon bramble
For beginners
carmine rivet
@serene phoenix Hades will wind the spear back if he intends to Lunge forward, and a circular line appears just before he does a Spin Attack.
cunning urchin
I still don't agree with it.
neon bramble
I actually found Zag sword best with no blood in it
serene phoenix
@carmine rivet yeah I'm referring to the spin
sometimes he spins in place
and sometimes he steps forward and spins
turbid needle
Zagreus Aspects are designed to aid the player in learning how to use the weapon.
serene phoenix
how do I tell the difference
turbid needle
Rail gives you more ammo, Shield gives some damage resistance, Sword makes you a little speedier to assist evading damage.
carmine rivet
I'm pretty sure he normally always Dashes into a Spin. Not the best memory though.
turbid needle
I don't remember any completely stationary spins unless he runs into terrain.
carmine rivet
^
turbid needle
He will always move "forward" slightly.
neon bramble
I still don't agree with it.
Well you don't agree with anything, so that's not surprising 😉🤣
The guy is saying he's having trouble with the sword, and I remember Zag aspect being the most difficult for me with the sword precisely because of the extended dash messing up timing
dry ember
I'll be the arbitrator and say that you guys (and girls) are operating on different definition of 'control'
neon bramble
Now, it's fine because I have experience
dry ember
Because I use guys as a gender neutral term love
but I thought about you
so I add the parenthesis, be grateful ❤️
cunning urchin
hushed ledge
i'm still so confused how beo blocking works perfectly for me and not for some other people
magic dagger
Zag aspect is very difficult to control, and I don't recommend it until... Well... Never
I feel personally attacked
unkempt pagoda
i tried it out again and it works fine for me as well
hushed ledge
ye i'm so confused what people in feedback are on about
the block is exactly the same as normal shield
dry ember
I feel personally attacked
I mean Zag Aspect doesn't scale as well with heat compared to other aspects
turbid needle
(except Malphon and Spread Fire Rail)
dry ember
Nyaa was right in that extended dash helps a lot when you start out with dashing just straight out of danger
but when people start iframing attacks, it loses its potent.
magic dagger
the move speed is honestly the biggest thing for me
I can just not dash, most of the time
turbid needle
I wish I could do something to get Zag permanent move-speed-up.
Maybe a new Mirror option?
stuck elbow
turbid needle
Nah.
Oh, well.
The issue I see with that is that a movement speed upgrade would fall under the Reflex banner.
So you get one very vanilla Dash and then a bunch of movement speed, but you lose all of those i-frames.
cunning urchin
Abyssal Blood will slow down enemies at least.
dry ember
Imagine if longer dash gives more i frames
cunning urchin
Dash i-frames are very lenient already.
Still tight enough to take some practice.
cunning urchin
I think it's in a good place right now.
oblique elk
@serene phoenix I'm p sure after he gets his shield then he'll always dash towards you
sullen valley
So, hey, uh, using Rama for the first time, and, I got a hammer with:
Twin Shots
Chain Shot
Rama Shockwave
Which one
unkempt pagoda
imo chain or twin
sullen valley
What's the Shockwave like?
Apparently the Blast Wave also nullifies projectilestuff, too
unkempt pagoda
not sure if it does damage, but it does what it says
defensive in nature, but i prefer to capitalize on rama's damage potential
sullen valley
Ah, no, it doesn't deal damage. Yeah, I see your point now...
toxic wolf
What's the consensus on the two options for Death Defiance? Does one come out to be particularly better than the other?
turbid needle
Stubborn Defiance is great for extremely high heat, but beware that the Hades fight can easily eat multiple Defiances.
I tried Stubborn for a while but I kept dying since I never used any DDs outside the final boss.
cunning urchin
Stubborn Defiance gives you more effective HP over the course of a whole run. Death Defiance gives you a potentially greater safety net during single encounters if you still have your DDs.
SD also lets you circumvent the lack of healing from Lasting Consequences at 4. That's why it's used for extreme heats like Schpoonman said.
turbid needle
I get impatient against the final boss and try to facetank.
toxic wolf
I've been using stubborn pretty exclusively for a minute but that makes sense, wrt dying to the final boss a lot. As, well, I die to the final boss pretty often. 90% of my failed runs either die to T&M because I'm faffing about too much or to the big man himself.
unkempt pagoda
i get impatient and try to facetank
cunning urchin
You can also lose 3 of your DDs in random encounters and be screwed unless you see Patroclus or get lucky with Wells of Charon. But with SD you'd still have your SD.
toxic wolf
Main reason I've been using Stubborn though is if I lose a few Death Defiance early on I then feel like I need to angle towards Athena boons and save money for Wells so I can try to get them back (or at the very least pray for Patro)
kinda kills variety sometimes
also whoever called out disliking zagreus aspect stygian earlier, I pretty much main zag aspect styg w/ hermes plume 'cause I gotta go FAST
turbid needle
The game provides plenty of avenues for people to focus down.
Nyaanyaa has a higher Heat clear than I do despite my far more clears because she focused on succeeding on massive Heat with Malphon.
My max is 32, she's got 40+.
toxic wolf
my max is 8 so I can't judge
cunning urchin
Yeah, I just went 20 > 32 > 41 lol.
I focus on optimizing my build and practicing how to use it more effectively.
inland meadow
quick question if you take off Cerberus collar do you keep the health or no?
turbid needle
Nope.
inland meadow
I'm talking about between floors
cunning urchin
It's just natural for me as a fighting game player, I suppose, where typically you main 1 character and put all your focus on them.
turbid needle
No.
inland meadow
so you lose the max hp?
turbid needle
Yes.
inland meadow
ok just wanted to confirm
cunning urchin
The collar is pretty good early on in the game. You can use the collar in the early biomes and switch to the Lucky Tooth when your DDs are down. Helps you get to bosses more consistently, so you can get some practice in those fights.
toxic wolf
is it possible to achieve 100% dodge chance if you get obscenely lucky and play perfectly with hermes plume?
never seen where it caps out at
magic dagger
I think that the actual effect is capped at 80%, regardless of the individual efforts of various boons
turbid needle
I can't 100% confirm, but I've heard that Dodge chance applies separately for every instance, so if you've got a cumulative 110%, it breaks it into 30, 30, 40, and 10% chances and checks them all separately.
cunning urchin
Whether it checks them separately or no, I'm pretty sure that's how the math works out for your dodge chance.
toxic wolf
If that's the case it should only come into effect if it cumulatively adds up to more than 110% correct? Otherwise your dodge chance should be all the different chances simply added together? Effectively I mean.
er
more than 100%
hushed ledge
?
magic dagger
If they're all checked separately, the above scenario comes out to ~73% dodge chance
hushed ledge
if it checks them all seperately it'll be less
magic dagger
which seems right
turbid needle
No, even if you have 30% and 20%, it will check them individually in sequence.
toxic wolf
yeah but does that add up to less than 50% total? I haven't done probability maths in a hot minute
magic dagger
30 and 20 would come out to 44%
hushed ledge
it has to add up to less
there are situations where you roll both
and none where you wouldn't dodge before and do now
cunning urchin
No, that doesn't check out with how it performs in practice.
It's basically just multiplicative. So whether it checks each individually and gives you another chance or gets your real dodge chance first before doing the check doesn't really matter.
oblique elk
you multiply the chances of not getting it then subtract from 100 I'm guessing
so like 1-.7*.8
oblique elk
cool
toxic wolf
tangentially related how the hell does the new hermes boon work anyways? the bonus damage for bonus speed one. Are you getting bonus damage equal to that boon's percentage of your total bonus speed? what actually qualifies as 'bonus' speed? I'm sure drift dash would, but what about speed buff from Zag aspect stygius, or from the plume? etc
oblique elk
probably anything above base speed
cunning urchin
Plus we're not supposed to discuss info from dataming here if anyone did know it. So we can just eyeball or somebody can count the dodges and hits in a run . . .
oblique elk
gotcha
additive would prob be broken
unless they wanted to do it like league ms which is stupid lol
cunning urchin
I've really no idea how the boon works. Try it out and report back.
oblique elk
I struggle exclusively w melee weapons lol
I've beaten runs with all the ranged weps and none of the melees
also special gun aspect is COOL
cunning urchin
Get Divine Strike on Malphon, and have a good time.
magic dagger
Get Double Edge on My Sword, and have a good time.
toxic wolf
Divine Strike zag aspect hermes plume malphon w/ the hammer upgrade that adds the extra hit to the combo to let you keep mashing attack endlessly is a good time
oblique elk
Get a ranged weapon, and have a good time.
toxic wolf
I use the bow a lot. Haven't tried out rama yet but I like all the other aspects for it so far
cunning urchin
Rolling Knuckle isn't that great anymore. There's a gap after the final hit now.
turbid needle
I used Chiron until about 15 Heat, then Hera with Trippy Shot, and then Zag Aspect for the last few.
cunning urchin
It's still not a bad hammer.
turbid needle
Not at all.
toxic wolf
oh they changed that? unfortunate
vague hearth
To be fair
neon bramble
With rare swift attack the gap is almost eliminated
With epic, it feels pretty much like it used to
vague hearth
Before with rolling knuckle you could become borderline invincible from the front with athena attack
toxic wolf
my last win was a real fun Chiron bow aspect w/ Lightning Flourish and a bunch of other pro-lightning zeus buffs actually. Not sure how it added up in the maths for like, optimization wrt damage per volley but it did a lot w/ pressure point crits and was super visually stylish with big AoE lightning bolts. Just wish I managed to get support fire along with it
IIRC support fire didn't used to fire off as many arrows with bow special but I think they changed that in either this update or the last one
carmine rivet
Ohmygods I've been running Chiron Bow with Relentless Volley and Zeus Special, and I just grabbed Support Fire. Time to melt.
native ether
alright its time for a hot take
With the Aspect of Talos, Freezing Vortex is better than Hunting Blades
there I said it
I said something was better than Hunting Blades
You can drag an enemy into a vortex that currently exists, or drag them right in front of you and drop them on an enemy
which is already pretty good damage
but if you have Arctic Blast, oh dear your damage skyrockets
and that damage is a giant massive AoE
now ofc combined with hunting blades it would be the best thing in the game
native ether
no no no no Arctic Blast's AoE
sullen valley
I've made a mistake - I gave myself explosive shot with Rama's Aspect Okay maybe the blast radius makes up for the snail's-pace draw time
native ether
its huge its like a third of the Hades arena
and you trigger it basically every second
Freezing Vortex combined with something that can keep an enemy in position has a pretty high damage output. (Plus if you're going general slicing blades strategy Black Metal cancels out the size reduction and Engulfing Vortex can even keep bosses inside the rift.)
oblique elk
ok so I got the boon that makes all ranged projs slower
and it makes lernie EVEN EASIER
I thought such a thing was impossible
also did they move the extra baby heads to the extra attack pattern pact?
sullen valley
Alright maybe Explosive Shot's draw speed with Rama isn't that much of a drawback (hah).
oblique elk
how heavily do y'all prioritize Call boons?
I feel obligated to take them bc otherwise you're leaving abilities off the table
oblique elk
yeah I guess so
I think I irationally prioritize them bc you can't use call unless you have a call boon but you still have casts n stuff even w o boons
civic barn
like, say I don't have any and don't plan on getting zeus boons on attack or special, I tend to take Zeus's Aid if it's on the list
oblique elk
lmao that's the one I'm looking at rn
civic barn
but the rest I don't really feel I need to take them as soon as I see it
oblique elk
it'd be that or electric shot
civic barn
maybe Poseidon on melee weapons just because it's a good escape
oblique elk
or heaven's vengeance but eh
civic barn
vengeance isn't actually a bad choice if you have another aid in mind
oblique elk
not really
civic barn
well then I'd recommend the aid then
electric shot does reasonably well if you don't have any room clear, though it's not the best
sullen valley
Depending on the God's Call you prefer, or the reverse, that should be up to you to prioritize. I tend not to take Ares' or Poseidon's, but I would adore taking Demeter's or Artemis'.
civic barn
artemis can hit walls or miss so I'm not too keen on it
carmine rivet
Always grab Dionysus Call if you can, and never use Max Call
sullen valley
If you have a call built specifically for a single god, then the call from that god could also be excellent. Let's say you're trying to make Ares' blade rifts good, then his call would be p good.
oblique elk
I'm using the rail so I've got waveclear
sullen valley
Artemis is good when in open areas. Such as Hades' or the Bone Hydra's.
oblique elk
ever had a fully charged artemis arrow hit a shield boi?
sullen valley
Or best, at least. Still p good.
oblique elk
makes me want to cry
sullen valley
I thought Artemis's projectiles always pierced Greatshields?
civic barn
hm zeus might actually not be the best on rail since it requires you to run close to the enemy, but it should work fine too
oblique elk
it might've been theseus
or an earlier patch
sullen valley
Zeus is best with cqc weapons/builds. Not so much for ranged builds/weapons.
civic barn
i don't tend to have enough charge to get a greater call in a room, or rather there's not a lot of incentive to wait for it
and elysium is chock full of obstructions
sullen valley
I swear if my Greater Call Artemis can be nullified by my least favorite enemy I'm gonna be miffed
civic barn
much rather go with other calls
sullen valley
At least I know that Artemis's Cast ignores Shields
civic barn
it's definitely a playstyle difference though; i just don't intend on getting an aid that's useful only for a couple enemies
sullen valley
I'm pretty sure they're like the Primal Aspids of Hades, huh?
Eh, I usually save my calls/Greater Calls for anything significant, like Bosses/Minibosses
usually 'cause that's when I'd actually have enough time to build up a Greater Call
oblique elk
what's good against M&T so I can beeline that boon every game
sullen valley
That's the only one I can think of, yeah.
Well...any build that can deal high damage, lol.
oblique elk
yeah it's elysium boss
civic barn
a lot of things are good against them so I'm not sure how i would advise that
sullen valley
Unironically though, anything that deals high damage would be preferable over survivability, since the longer you're there, the more prone to high-damage you would be.
Don't abandon evasion, though.
oblique elk
yeah it was mostly a meme
sullen valley
I guess the "best" boon against them would be "Greatest Reflex"? idk
oblique elk
lol
turbid needle
Greatest Reflex at Rare or Epic (or Heroic) is arguably the most powerful boon in the entire game, more than any Duo or Legendary.
sullen valley
Y e e s h e s, though, can I just repeat, Explosive Shot with Aspect of Rama is...an experience.
I have essentially a melee weapon now
It's drawspeed is almost never suitable if you so badly want to have a ranged build. If you are able to fully charge it, though...that's massive damage.
oblique elk
what do y'all think of stubborn roots? with SD
sullen valley
Even then, combined with Shared Suffering, it's actually a good boost in damage.
turbid needle
Stubborn Roots is designed to work with Stubborn Defiance, so as a player who uses both Death Defiances and Stygian Soul I really resent losing two Duos to my Mirror selection.
sullen valley
Just get a boon that greatly ups the damage% and you'd be good to go. Melee Bow Build. What a wacky thing.
oblique elk
rip schpoonman
turbid needle
It's nice not having to deal with Lightning Rod, which is arguably the weakest Duo in the entire game, but having to deal with a borderline useless Duo with Athena/Demeter is salt in the wound.
sullen valley
What's their duo?
oblique elk
Stubborn Roots
While you have no Stubborn Defiance, your Life slowly recovers.
Life Regeneration: 1 Life (every 0.8 Sec.)
small stirrup
You mean the cast one?
turbid needle
Stubborn Defiance, replenish 1% HP every .8 seconds when you don't have any Defiances remaining.
stoic thicket
I mean it's fairly obviously designed around SD, but it still works the same with DD? You get less value but when you need it it's still the same?
small stirrup
I remember it countering TD's depletion of health when I ran out of time
That seemed pretty nice for me
oblique elk
oh snap Ice Wine + Scintillating Feast?
turbid needle
Absurdly powerful, Torchwood.
oblique elk
It's ice wine or black out
turbid needle
Oof.
stoic thicket
Ice Wine, not even a question.
small stirrup
Ice wine is one of the best duos. Period.
turbid needle
Ice Wine is nice in a vacuum, but Black Out may spike higher depending on your build.
stoic thicket
Get Blackout the next time you meet Dio.