h1-builds-and-combat

[sacred idol]

ah, priority for the beam

[flat brook]

yeah, i pop some of them between boss phases and before mobs spawn and such

but i havent been using it mid-combat that much

[sacred idol]

speaking of

if you have to deal with them being passive

the best is to get Greater Inferno and use them as DoT mines

something like the chill bombs I had was silly good

just ice everyone in range, forever

[main osprey]

ares flourish can keep a permanent stunlock on some enemies

[sacred idol]

killing freeze demeter, stacking ares if you've got doom anyway, aphrodite...

the special is a weirdly... technical attack

best used preemptively, yeah, and it's tricky to use offensively in the heat of things, but it can do a lot of interesting things

zeus special apparently makes it lightning rod, but far more useful?

[main osprey]

nah, Zeus special blows it up quickly

[pearl relic]

Hey (sorry if this is the wrong chat to ask) do I have to use the Bow/Rail Gun/Shield to unlock their 4th aspects?

[main osprey]

nope

[pearl relic]

Alright thx

[main osprey]

check pins in #h1-story-discussion

[sacred idol]

Wait what, why does Zeus special detonate it early?

Very strange

[main osprey]

because the bolt damages it

[pearl relic]

Aah that is helpful, thank you !

[sacred idol]

what

that sounds like a bug

[main osprey]

not the first bolt

just later bolts when it strikes enemies

[sacred idol]

oh

[main osprey]

no, it makes sense

[sacred idol]

backchains

yeah that makes sense

that said

[main osprey]

yup

[sacred idol]

it actually does give it a use

[main osprey]

yup

it's good for burst

[sacred idol]

because then you have a rapid self-detonating lightning grenade

[main osprey]

just can't stunlock

[sacred idol]

amusing that Ares becomes CC and Zeus becomes DPS on that special

I love this thing's mechanics. So many cool interactions.

[main osprey]

alright. time to start styx with 182 obol and only Skelly's DD

[sacred idol]

Only thing is that weird autoaim issue

[main osprey]

i'm gonna die :D

[kindred needle]

Hahaha, Rama + Triple Shot + Explosive Shot is some pbaoe shenanigans

[main osprey]

yup

[sacred idol]

shotgun rama? lmao

[main osprey]

very fun

[sacred idol]

What is the "intended" playstyle for it, anyway?

[flat brook]

i had triple + point blank, also gave some awesome shotgun moments

intended playstyle: special all mobs in a room, kill 1 > kill all

bosses: special > attack

[kindred needle]

yeah, there's a good few options to turn it into a chonky shotgun that also does splash damage onto whoever is affected with the debuff, which is a fun kind of playstyle! definitely doesn't feel like a 'bow' tho haha

[flat brook]

it having a slower charge time naturally weighs it towards a more shotgun playstyle, imo

especially with FO

although i with the side shots from triple shot weren't that spread out

[sacred idol]

Is the 'intended playstyle' actually good, though

I am bummed that chain shot not bouncing off walls is apparently the intent...

just in general

[flat brook]

i won my first run with it like that, so i guess?

[sacred idol]

that was the most fun part

huh, what heat

[flat brook]

24

[sacred idol]

oh ok

so it's good

that's fair, lmao

a shotgun bow that shotguns the rest of the room though? hilarious

[flat brook]

yes, it's quite funny

and it's very satisfying when you hit 2 marked targets with 1 shot and they get twice the shared damage

[sacred idol]

ah, overpenetration stacking

that's always fun

[flat brook]

in terms of fun, the new aspects are lucy = rama >>>>> beowulf for me

[sacred idol]

I do want to get the others

only got lucy very quickly, good luck I guess

since I've seen arty like, twice? thrice? and still no luck on rama

[flat brook]

that's weird, i got all weapons on my first interaction with each god

[sacred idol]

rng is rng

lul

chaos twice, no beowulf

er, more than twice

[flat brook]

oh yeah, just remembered that chaos actually took me 2 tries

[sacred idol]

lucksack

[hushed ledge]

i got rama instantly lol

[serene nexus]

Quick question, should I go for static discharge or high voltage?

I’m using fists with Zeus dash

[neon bramble]

Zeus attack?

Or special?

You'll get more mileage out of static discharge, but I believe high voltage is a legendary requirement if you want splitting bolt.

I'm unsure

[flat brook]

if you only have the dash i'd say discharge

[hushed ledge]

discharge is a status

[flat brook]

the legendary wont do much with just the dash

[neon bramble]

True

[serene nexus]

Went with discharge since I have Demeter special

[spring turret]

i need to know if stubborn defiance or athenas defiance is used up first when you are gunning for the exploit

i have gotten the athenas defiance after losing my stubborn so i got both now

question is if you lose stubborn or athenas one first if u die with them both active

[hushed ledge]

huh rama feels faster than it was yesterday

[thick raptor]

Oh boy on my first beo run and am about to fight FB with no acorn and one DD left. Am mildly hopeful on a win

Nope, archers got me

[inner patrol]

Strongbows and the unique Brightswords are a pain in that fight

[civic barn]

i'm trying to figure out why it's been harder to dodge exalted bowmen and spearmen lately (since the beta)

did they use to have a combo like that

like i don't remember if bowmen shot so many arrows at once

spearmen i think is just me not dealing with their reach well enough

[main osprey]

They don't stay stunlocked

Elite always have shot 3, that I remember, and spearmen do move faster as elites (compared to normal)

[inner patrol]

It's been 3-4, they just increased the damage output so you notice it more. The Longspears have also had the same 3-hit combo, but it feels like their hurtbox has been extended to be past their animation

[main osprey]

At least they fixed the spears going through the shield

[inner patrol]

That's certainly a plus

[tired elk]

and I can't find anywhere where someone has listed out the heats that they think are Easy->Hard

[main osprey]

@tired elk I find Damage Control to be easy on most weapons

You can get used to Forced Overtime pretty quickly, though it's definitely harder

Same goes for Emergency Measures, up to 2. 3 is a decent bit harder

[tired elk]

Damage Control 2 is just scary with Elysium lol

But I'm using Chaos Shield so shouldn't be that hard

[main osprey]

Middle Management is hit or miss, if you get lucky it's not too bad, if you get unlucky it sucks

[civic barn]

emergency measures feels like it's natural to just do; i think middle management is fairly balanced right now

[thick raptor]

I've been sitting on FO1 for a while, its definitely a little bit to get used to, but it feels normal now, but am in no position to move to FO2

[main osprey]

Benefits Package 1 isn't too bad either

[civic barn]

the summons really do help with them a lot

[tired elk]

Emergency measures?

you mean extremem easures? lol

[main osprey]

Makes bosses harder

Yeah

Autocorrect didn't double check it

[tired elk]

thanks c:

[unkempt pagoda]

middle management is great

[sacred idol]

@spring turret what exploit?

[main osprey]

A way to get 2 SDs per room

I think

[tired elk]

SD?

[main osprey]

Stubborn Defiance

[flat brook]

damn, infinite chamber is actually pretty good if you get hermes epic attack speed

[sacred idol]

Benefits package 2 is silly

Lmao

[main osprey]

BP2 is really hard

BP1 isn't that bad

[sacred idol]

Eternal chamber with high tier attack speed and dio/zeus...

Or doomstack...

[civic barn]

like i don't consider myself good at the game and i run 20 heat regularly with Emergency measures, Benefits Package, Middle management, and forced Overtime on all the time; having tight deadline 1 or 2 depends on the confidence i feel, but at its current state you don't gain much going from 1 to the other so I just stick with 1 because it gives me more leeway

[sacred idol]

Yeah BP2 is pain

Teleporting slow elites for days

[tired elk]

That's why the BP2 gives 3 lol

extreme measures!!!!

grrr

[sacred idol]

My reaction time is slow, so FO seems like a personal hard pick

I would personally say: No healing is one of the worst

I cannot "not get hit" on heat 0, let alone 20

[main osprey]

Once you get used to EM, MM, BP, and FO, they're not that bad

[civic barn]

my reaction time isn't great either; i feel like benefit packages 2 would be more trouble if that's the worry

[main osprey]

Adding them up gets harder

[sacred idol]

Benefits package more than FO2?

FO1 sure, but 2?

2 is also a bit yikes for slow weapons...

[main osprey]

Aight, gtg for now

Good luck!

[civic barn]

the speed is something you can play around; you don't have to stick close to most enemies

[sacred idol]

Depends on the weapon

[civic barn]

i mean, you can play hit and run

[sacred idol]

That said

Depending on weapon...

[civic barn]

but benefits package basically makes that a chore or a much more difficult feat

that's how i see it

[sacred idol]

Blue shield is either pathetically easy or a nightmare.

[neon bramble]

Duuude.... Ares attack with eternal chamber is more insane than people give it credit

[sacred idol]

Luci, for instance, is two free heats.

Hestia? A nightmare.

Counters all of what the aspect does in the latter case

Meanwhile Hestia is mildly inconvenienced by no blue shields, but thicc health

[neon bramble]

Its not hard to overcome with Hestia

Take a hop around the room and empty a clip into all the blue hearts, then one shot them all

[sacred idol]

Although if you have the right special or just fire normally and assume you'll waste one shot in an encounter, yeah

Tbf, it is more of a chore

Arthur I'm not sure would have a good time, on the other hand

It has no fast hits

So it's just... inescapable tedium wall on every enemy, especially with +spawns

Then again, the last two hits will probably two hit the enemy. So whatever.

[thick raptor]

Zeus also makes blue shields a null factor

[sacred idol]

Yeah that too, if it can run zeus, 2 free heats

Just in general

Or if you get support fire, much easier

Hmm. I think a bunch of other heats are pretty build/weapon specific...

FO speeds up spawns, yes?

[unkempt pagoda]

yes

[sacred idol]

In my experience, without it, spawns are so ungodly slow, the +enemies heat is horrible

So it effectively actually... improves that heat by making it faster and therefore less likely to run you out of Tight Deadline.

Also

Customs is purely RNG as to whether it's hard or not

Some seeds will give you maybe two boons in Tartarus. Others will throw you a legendary and a duo by the furies. And some of those will eat your legendary in the pool...

[flat brook]

I never turn customs on

[sacred idol]

If it takes your rando demeter dash or whatever, it's free. If it takes your main attack, time to reset.

[flat brook]

not after missing all those duos and legendaries

[sacred idol]

...remind me, is no choice still in the game, I didn't take a good look

[cunning urchin]

I would personally say: No healing is one of the worst
I cannot "not get hit" on heat 0, let alone 20
You don't need to not get hit. You can use Stubborn Defiance to circumvent the lack of healing.

[sacred idol]

That's not good enough for me, because I generally tend to Defiance twice on Hades

[tired elk]

https://imgur.com/a/heNuZ8j Wish me luck bois!

[flat brook]

just realized how STRONK second wind is

[unkempt pagoda]

good luck!

[tired elk]

heat 6 ;__;

[flat brook]

got an epic one in the styx shop and oh boy 45% dodge is huge

killed hades with 1 acorn charge left

[sacred idol]

That's the issue - depending on the run I might lose between zero and two before Hades, but sometimes I get to Hades with full defiances and then eat 3

What's Second Wind, dodge on call?

[unkempt pagoda]

dodge and movespeed

[sacred idol]

That on the Smoldering Air build...

With Clouded Judgment...

[cunning urchin]

I don't really use LC4 either. That's just how people deal with the lack of healing.

[sacred idol]

That would be absolutely nasty

[flat brook]

dont even need smoldering air, 15s is plenty of time to get 1 call bar again, even with demeter (the one i was using)

[sacred idol]

Yeah, that's the thing, people who can deal with LC4 are good at games

Not me, lol

Smoldering just guarantees it's extra cheesy.

[tired elk]

That was easy....

[sacred idol]

Especially if you're on like, zeus call and just keep smiting everything with full god gauge memes

Zeus call. Smoldering air, clouded judgment, second wind, quick favor.

"Sky daddy carry me"

[flat brook]

i'd like smoldering air A LOT more if it auto-casted your call

it's just so annoying to have to call every 5s

extra unnecessary button presses

[sacred idol]

Oh true

Feedback?

Since its thing is literally spam casting, no reason why not, yeah

[hearty warren]

Having it autocast would be a nightmare with ares/Poseidon

[thick raptor]

Any good non-Artimis tricks to get Slicing Shot working well?

[sacred idol]

Oh right.

That's why it isn't a thing

Poseidon call exists

@thick raptor demeter duo might work out, maybe cast boons from hermes on stygian to keep up constant pressure (or on normal soul for burst)

[neon bramble]

Glacial glare is fun

[sacred idol]

You need to go hard into Ares cast tree if you're working without Arty

[flat brook]

if you want blades but dont want hunting blades, i suggest a blade dash run

[sacred idol]

Isn't glacial glare the duo for demeter cast?

[flat brook]

i find it way easier to hit compared to the cast

[sacred idol]

Dem cast feels equally hard to get off the ground to start with

[thick raptor]

Its just the first cast I ran into that I didn't need other things, might be able to salvage, will be surprised if I see Demeter this round

[sacred idol]

Well, demeter and artemis are really the only good options, and the rest is just going all in on Blade Rift boons

Because the alternative really is just basically maining them, or else putting up with a lame shield stripper of a cast

[neon bramble]

No, it's a support boon for crystal beam

[sacred idol]

Ah

Yeah, this is a slicing shot run.

Without an early locked demeter/arty

Which is... yike

[thick raptor]

I am getting a lot of Ares boons, so might be able to do something with it, worst come I don;t have a good cast?

[neon bramble]

Also.... How deep would you say you need to go into Ares boons for it to be successful @sacred idol

Would this suffice?

🤣

https://imgur.com/a/JBTcXvu

[sacred idol]

Wrong ares kek

I mean, if you're going slicing fricking shot with no synergy gods guaranteed

Better be getting legendary ares or you're SOL

HBlades or demeter version are at least viable without

But alone? Good luck

That said, the demeter one still really wants more ares boons

Or more chill boons

Because otherwise it's too small

[neon bramble]

Frozen vortex is better than people think

The slow movement and chill gets more damage into enemies

[sacred idol]

Vortex with the size boon from ares... nasty

Does it stack chill on every single BR tick?

[neon bramble]

Yes

[sacred idol]

Okay so... Arctic Blast viable?

[neon bramble]

Use arctic blast

Yes

[sacred idol]

Yeah, that's the spice

So you have a constantly exploding tornado

[hushed ledge]

it appears that unarmoured souls of exalted aren't taking stun

[sacred idol]

Blade rifts are still very... investment heavy.

[neon bramble]

Blade rifts are an all in or nothing build

I agree

[sacred idol]

They're still atrocious by themselves except to remove blue shields, but yeah, when you go all in, they're just... disgusting

[tired elk]

Are there many good upgrades for the chaos shield?

[sacred idol]

Then again

[tired elk]

because seems pretty useless lol

[neon bramble]

Chaos shield is amazing

[sacred idol]

Most cast builds are like that, right?

[tired elk]

to me at least

[neon bramble]

It's amazing

[tired elk]

I mean the upgrades for it

The upgrades for it

[sacred idol]

Upgrades?

[neon bramble]

Oh hammers

[tired elk]

hammer yea mb

[sacred idol]

Oh.

[neon bramble]

Get dashing wallop

It helps

And sudden rush

[sacred idol]

Yeah, hammers are kind of who cares besides faster bullrush charge and... dashing wallop is for what?

[neon bramble]

Dashing wallop is just insurance

[sacred idol]

Just for reliable off throw DPS, or something?

[neon bramble]

It covers a huge area

[thick raptor]

Worst come I have stacking doomfists and a rupture kick plus jolted lightning dodges, so its not a bad run

[sacred idol]

Oh, in case chaos offers a deal too good to pass up or you can't set up throw...

Oh lol

Stacking doom punch

[neon bramble]

I had doom ticking for 1000 with the build I posted above 🤣

[sacred idol]

Yeah that's a good run with either a great pure ares cast or one wasted boon on sea storm

Hey, was stacking doom buffed by itself at any point

[neon bramble]

No

[sacred idol]

Before Nighty Night it was widely regarded as completely useless

Is it just that there are weapons tailor made to make it busted now

[neon bramble]

Try it on Lucy or fists with merciful end

[tired elk]

"Borrow" 300

......

[sacred idol]

I'm guessing that's the reason

[tired elk]

is this bait? lol

[neon bramble]

Take the money

Do EEEET

[sacred idol]

It's bait

<:

Hope you have a lot of health, friend

[tired elk]

WHY

rip

I picked the deadline as well... :c

[neon bramble]

Lol

[sacred idol]

F

Bright side, if you win it makes the styx shop easy

Hue

[spring turret]

pay for your transgressions

[sacred idol]

Actually

Is Curse of Longing still pathetically bad at damage

[spring turret]

probably

[sacred idol]

Or did they ever adjust that

[spring turret]

never tried it though

after the first 2 or 3 times i got it randomly

[tired elk]

I took 0 damage

HA

[neon bramble]

Well... If I were to have curse of longing on that ares build I posted .... It would be insanity

[tired elk]

EZAF

[spring turret]

doesnt it just reduce your dmg

[neon bramble]

No

It ticks for half of what doom originally ticked for as long as they are weakened

[spring turret]

after the first doom goes off you have to wait until the chain ends

[civic barn]

curse of longing is 50% now instead of 25%

[neon bramble]

Every 1s

[spring turret]

oh

buffed

[sacred idol]

Oh wow

[spring turret]

might want to try it now

[sacred idol]

That is huge

That sounds actually good

[spring turret]

yeah

finally

[sacred idol]

Especially with the new doomstack synergies

[spring turret]

that one boon that everyone gives up on

[sacred idol]

Stack it for like 1k and wait lmao

[spring turret]

now viable

[civic barn]

it's...fine, i feel

[sacred idol]

The two worst ares boons in the game now potentially good together

[tired elk]

I got the reduced doom tick explosion with the increased damage per Doom tick lol

with the Chaos shield

[sacred idol]

Well it used to be literally only priv stat.

Now it actually looks viable

[spring turret]

hopefully it is as good as it seems on paper

[sacred idol]

Still counter synergy with merciful

But that simply means building a different synergy

They're just fundamentally opposed ways of using doom, I think

Well, literally a 100% dps increase...

[spring turret]

mercifuls probably better though with majority of the weapons whereas this synergy hinges upon lucifer

[neon bramble]

Or Rama special

Stack insane doom

[spring turret]

is it still unlimited fire after u get the +4 arrows

[neon bramble]

Pretty much

[tired elk]

2:20 on the centaur fight

enough time right? lol

[spring turret]

will have to try it then

[neon bramble]

Centaur fight?

[spring turret]

think he means minotaur

[neon bramble]

Ah

Yeah 2:20 is enough depending on your build

[sacred idol]

@spring turret fists is another way to use CoL at least

So it's not unusable

[spring turret]

i fought theseus with like 50 seconds left, you can easily do this

yeah but definately not as fast as rama special/lucifer

[sacred idol]

And now it's passable supplementary damage for normal doom builds

Rather than literally ticking itself down to a priv stat stick inside of 3 ticks.

[spring turret]

im just happy that even if niche its still viable in any capacity

[sacred idol]

Yeah

Comeback for the worst duo in the game

[tired elk]

took me 1:20 to killem c;

c:

[sacred idol]

I want Rama

It sounds like fun

[spring turret]

want to try it out since it sounds pretty interesting

[neon bramble]

Also, you don't need to wait for the CoL to end... If you just apply more doom, it starts over

[sacred idol]

Beowulf... I dunno how it plays at all.

Oh true

So it's now just

Deal some side damage even while switching targets, at bare minimum

Which is useful if some enemies are just bastards and demand your attention

[spring turret]

still suffers from being overkill i guess with smaller mobs, merciful end atleast circumvents that problem by being instant.

[sacred idol]

Yeah

It's for switching off chunky monkey enemies, OR mega doomstack melting with those niche builds

Lucifer just opens up so much nonsense I love it

[spring turret]

merciful would be like the balanced(in terms of biome and boss) doom build while curse of longing with dire misfortune becomes the boss melting build

[sacred idol]

Yeah

[spring turret]

hey doom becomes more interesting

its a win win

[sacred idol]

Yeah, for sure

It used to be... you got merciful, or doom basically bad

[spring turret]

ares became merciful end or hunting blades

[sacred idol]

Viable, but kinda jank otherwise

[spring turret]

literally two boons

and the blade rift upgrades i guess

[sacred idol]

Now ares has four different duo builds all providing cool stuff

Hell, even Poseidon finally feels like he hit his stride lately

[spring turret]

glad that those two underdogs got some attention

[sacred idol]

Actually, Poseidon feels like he has so much going for him in the current patch state

[spring turret]

yeah no question

[sacred idol]

Wave Pounding got buffed by, what, 4x?

[spring turret]

specially like the new direction with call

[sacred idol]

It's now absurd, especially on lucy, fists, whatever

Demeter fist with poseidon special

[spring turret]

there also a few miscellaneous boons that are great with anything

[sacred idol]

What's the call change

[spring turret]

even if u dont commit to knockback

rip tide

it helps alot

and buffs call duration

[sacred idol]

What's it do

[tired elk]

How long does hades fight last?

3 minutes?

[spring turret]

sucks in enemies

and buffs call duration

[sacred idol]

Oh wow

[spring turret]

when u use call

[sacred idol]

That's nice for crowds, just tsunami everything

Naturally, take big bro zeus and throw on clouded judgment...

And good old sea storm

[spring turret]

also that aphrodite zeus boon

[sacred idol]

Rupture jolt spam call, lmao

And that yeah

[spring turret]

so u can spam it

[sacred idol]

Besides, those three are just good together anyway

[spring turret]

then add the hermes one

[sacred idol]

If you get nectar early, gg

[spring turret]

which charges up call

[sacred idol]

Yeah I had that with athena call

Clouded and the hermes one

Disgustingly cheesy

[spring turret]

yeah basically immortal

[sacred idol]

That one is just god mode

How good are the different companions now?

Dusa made good yet?

[tired elk]

https://imgur.com/a/RESRclC

[spring turret]

the new one antos is really good for bosses/minibosses since its guarenteed to hit 2 enemies (or the same one twice)

[tired elk]

I almost died ;__;

I was trynna rush the final fight lol

[spring turret]

i still keep shady when i dont go lasting consequence 4

[sacred idol]

Doot

[spring turret]

300ish hp is pretty solid

[sacred idol]

How about the other non Bouldy ones

And what does Antos do in terms of damage

[spring turret]

1500 per hit

but twice

and guarenteed to hit enemies

meg is still better dmgwise

but its insurance i guess

[sacred idol]

But Meg can miss? Can Antos be used on Hades

[spring turret]

havent tested it yet

[sacred idol]

Also again is Dusa any good now

[spring turret]

i forgot to level dusa up so i dont know

[sacred idol]

Thematically I like her most because she's one of my favorite characters

But back then it was awful, had some friendly fire issue even

[spring turret]

shes like skelly but does dmg and petrifies sometimes

[sacred idol]

Stoning Zagreus lmao

[spring turret]

and moves around a bit

hey maybe some of the gorgon bloodlust overtook her

that her cousins have against you everytime you go to asphodel

[sacred idol]

Lul

Wait, does she bait enemies too

[spring turret]

probably not

but ive never tried it

[magic dagger]

did they nerf hestia?

Wait, does she bait enemies too
@sacred idol no

[spring turret]

not that im aware of

[magic dagger]

empowered shot seems like it has a lot of endlag before you can reload

[spring turret]

may be just a bug i never used hestia in a while

not mentioned in patchnotes atleast

[magic dagger]

I'm hitting R 2/3 times before it works

before it was pretty much instant

[spring turret]

let me try it myself for reference

[inner patrol]

The only companions you can use on Hades is Sisyphus and Skelly

[spring turret]

seems fine to me atleast

in the skelly training room

oh really

i guess it makes sense since achilles is working for hades too

[inner patrol]

I wish Anton summoned just Pat for the fight (dude probably has plenty of frustrations to work out on the god of the dead,) but sadly no

[spring turret]

or make it work, i dont think achilles is all to attached to his job

[flat brook]

damn, my smouldering air feedback was downvoted to oblivion

[spring turret]

what even was it

[inner patrol]

That being said using it in the Asterius & Other Guy fight gets a great reaction out of Theseus

[flat brook]

making smouldering air automatically use the call when the bar reaches its limit

[spring turret]

doesnt it already do that iirc, u can only use it if its past the bare minimum point

which is the first bar

or does smouldering air change that

[flat brook]

if you dont use the call button, it stays at 25% forever

[spring turret]

oh

ur asking for it to be used immediately

[flat brook]

what i suggested was for it to use without needing to actually press the button

yup

[inner patrol]

I'm just not the biggest fan of Smouldering Air but that's because I prefer greater calls

[spring turret]

it would be jarring with something like poseidon or ares

randomly forced into an action without being able to control it

[pliant palm]

Idk, I really like smouldering how it is rn

Bad with some call, but excellent with others

[inner patrol]

I can see it going off a lot when it's not necessary

[mighty ermine]

it quickly gets wild with a decent zeus call in particular, i'd say

[spring turret]

maybe just a clear indication when its at 25 like zagreus glows

[flat brook]

yeah, i put a little note at the end "except dio and poseidon"

[mighty ermine]

especially with billowing strength

and various bolt T2s

[flat brook]

i like the conccept of smouldering air

it's just annoying to have to press the call button every 5s

[spring turret]

same

[flat brook]

it recharges so fast, using it automatically wouldnt even go to waste

[spring turret]

some calls just get longer durations at max

so losing it isnt too much of a loss

[flat brook]

smouldering air only lets you use the 1st bar though

[spring turret]

still spammable calls

with zeus

[cunning urchin]

I mean you're pressing attack and dash many more times within 5 seconds. I don't really see the issue.

[pliant palm]

Idk, would be annoying with ares/poseidon, and seems weird to make it auto-proc some calls and not others

[inner patrol]

I can see making a build around it (namely because of Billowing Strength and Second Wind,) but Express Call does what Smouldering Air does without restricting your call amount

[pliant palm]

• with athena you might want to time it, rather than just spam it

[spring turret]

express is slower i think or are they actually the same

[flat brook]

without SA, i press the call button every ~30s, 15s if i have billowing strength/second wind

[spring turret]

didnt test it

[flat brook]

with SA i'm using it everytime i can to not lose dps

[cunning urchin]

Why would it be annoying with Dionysus' Aid? I just spam that anyway pretty much.

[flat brook]

gets kind of annoying, especially on default controller inputs

[spring turret]

dio aid will be an added bonus

[pliant palm]

Sorry, not dio

Was thinking about something else at the same time, and I wrote dio lol

[flat brook]

ares

[inner patrol]

Smouldering Air and Express Call stack, but the rare Express Call goes as fast as Smouldering Air & epic does it faster

[cunning urchin]

It's okay. We all make mistakes.

Well, not me, but . . .

[spring turret]

ares and posedion mainly cuz they lock u into the call

so it going off uncontrollably will be hard to manage

[inner patrol]

Poseidon moreso than Ares

[pliant palm]

I just feel like it's not needed, having to think about spamming is good for balance imo, considering how fast it charges

[spring turret]

athena call would be busted with it though even though it already is

auto immunity everytime its up

[cunning urchin]

I don't think Athena's Aid is busted.

[mighty ermine]

poseidon at least has momentum that can frequently slide you out of harm's way as it ends, while non-greater ares call can be dangerous to use a lot of the time

[spring turret]

Several people are typing

[flat brook]

i dont think SA is strong enough to justify not adding that based on balance

[inner patrol]

Yeah and being able to time it isn't too bad

[pliant palm]

From the few times I got it, it's defo seems like a big DPS increase

[flat brook]

it just feels against the purpose of the duo (spam call)

especially since most players (myself included) forget completely about the call all the time

and end up not using it

[sacred idol]

Athena's Aid is a bandaid for players like me who can't not get hit, 4head

[flat brook]

athena call is amazing with a couple of poms and greater call

[spring turret]

its also good with flurry builds

[flat brook]

i dont really like using it in 1 bar intervals

[pliant palm]

Who need the call when you have the dash

[spring turret]

can sit around and deal your dmg without needing to dash alot

[earnest ravine]

You can hit it as an "I don't have to deal with this anymore" button and can skip entire phases of bosses, it's great.

[spring turret]

its also insurance

what i like is that it gives you the opportunity to still attack/special/cast freely

[mighty ermine]

even though i'm personally not the best at remembering to use calls, i like the duo since it makes me better at it and makes fantastic use of billowing strength and second wind to the point of them being up at virtually all times

[spring turret]

i tried a gimmicky build with it with aphro call and it was broken simply because of how broken charm is

[flat brook]

billowing/second wind are perfectly useable without any other boons though, smouldering feels overkill

[mighty ermine]

didn't say they weren't usable without it

[pliant palm]

Overkill is nice, tho

Especially when you start pushing the heat x)

[spring turret]

idk it doesnt charge that quick for you to lose dmg if you spend a second or two forgetting to use it

[flat brook]

i just feel like smouldering doesnt serve much of a purpose unless you're doing more of a hit and run tactic (so no TD)

[pliant palm]

The purpose is to do a lot of damage ?

[spring turret]

it changes based on the call

[flat brook]

also, why is aphro+zeus not called LOVE SPARK?

if you wanted to do a lot of damage you'd use greater call though

smouldering is for... sustained damage?

[spring turret]

i'd say u could use dios call as a second special to proc privileged status

and u could afford to go for more gods that dont immediately give curses

[pliant palm]

For bosse, sure

But gl getting a greater call in normal rooms

[spring turret]

like athena, poseidon, zeus, artemis

[pliant palm]

Except for like, long elysium rooms

[cunning urchin]

Dionysus' Aid does better damage if you use calls immediately instead of waiting for Greater Call.

[mighty ermine]

the sustained from constant buildup of lesser calls would be more overall damage than waiting for greater every time, yes

[pliant palm]

But it's just faster in term of clear time to spam the call

[mighty ermine]

and yeah, was about to mention what nyaa said

[flat brook]

in normal rooms you use 1 bar calls, and you can save to use multiple times instead of using 1 by 1

[spring turret]

its one of the better one just to have as a status proccer

[mighty ermine]

dio's call is just better to use in lesser intervals than greater

[cunning urchin]

Artemis' Aid outside of Greater Call is poor.

[flat brook]

dyo is the only one that works like that though

aphro's doesnt even deal damage if it's not greater

[spring turret]

aphro has charm

[hybrid galleon]

so i tried lucifer yesterday

[mighty ermine]

zeus works perfectly fine as lesser

[spring turret]

which is super powerful in its own regard

[hybrid galleon]

i think lucifer overshadows zag 10 fold

for how much damage it can deal

[spring turret]

em3 theseus can destroy asterius when charmed

[pliant palm]

Considering the game woks with waves, using call asap is better, tho

[cunning urchin]

Greater Call really just matters for bosses.

It's a "let me skip this phase real quick" button.

[spring turret]

its certainly not better than maxed on aphro call though since the dmg is way too good

[flat brook]

if smouldering limited your call bar to 50% it'd be great

[spring turret]

but still really good

[flat brook]

so you can save your call just a bit

[mighty ermine]

and when you can use lessers as often as you can with smoldering air, greater pales anyway compared to the constant damage of lesser in the case of zeus and dio

definitely not worth it with art, though

[pliant palm]

Smouldering just seems good to me, nothing more, nothing less

[mighty ermine]

that's for sure

[spring turret]

heh just use her cast at that rate

[sacred idol]

also, why is aphro+zeus not called LOVE SPARK?
@flat brook Why is Ares+Demeter not called Cold War?

[flat brook]

that's definitely another one

[spring turret]

suggest it and let the puns run rampant

[flat brook]

before the beta hit i said multiple times i wanted it to be called cold war as well

[sacred idol]

I did!

[flat brook]

our prayers went without answer

[sacred idol]

search and upvote it :v

also, I can't wait for the modding discord to change Aphro+Zeus to Love Colored Master Spark

<:

touhou jokes

[cunning urchin]

My only issue with Smoldering Air would be that you can't stack lesser calls for i-frames when you need them.

But you get i-frames more often, so there's that.

[sacred idol]

yeah, 50% would be nice

[spring turret]

theres no real reason for it not to be 50 since u can still use the first bar if u want to spam

[flat brook]

my reaction time is not good enough to dodge stuff with 1 bar posi/ares/athena calls

[sacred idol]

It's just kinda odd that it's weaker than the higher rarity Hermes equivalent though.

[flat brook]

i prefer to just use greater call and stand for 10s immune

[sacred idol]

1 bar athena? that's more than a dodge

[cunning urchin]

You can i-frame with any call.

[spring turret]

is hermes one that fast?

[sacred idol]

you don't really need as much reflex to use it

iframing with a regular call? hell no, I can't do that

I have the reaction time of a tranquilized sloth

[tired elk]

Very first time I "borrowed" the gold I took 0 damage

second time he bent me over like he was my uncle.....

[sacred idol]

but with athena, it's just 'ignore one attack with any windup'

[spring turret]

pay for your transgressions

with your life

[flat brook]

everytime i try to dodge an attack with iframes i take the damage of the attack and waste the call time on the recovery from the boss' attack

[cunning urchin]

If you can i-frame on reaction with Athena's Aid, you can i-frame with any call.

[tired elk]

I did not realize his sword did like 90% of my HP LOL

[sacred idol]

yeah, same @flat brook

[spring turret]

yeah its wicked

hades level dmg

[tired elk]

XD

[spring turret]

which u can get as early as tartarus

[sacred idol]

I can't iframe on reaction with anything @cunning urchin

I either eat it like a chump, or fire it off just barely in time for the rest of the athena call to keep me from biting it

or just fail and die

[spring turret]

but you shouldnt really be shoplifting your goodman charon

[sacred idol]

this is what being slow (and also bad) is like

[tired elk]

It does say borrow

come on

[cunning urchin]

A lot of attacks are very telegraphed but hit very hard.

Like Hydra head slams.

[sacred idol]

all this talk of doing things by reflex

haha imagine

having reflexes

[tired elk]

XD

[sacred idol]

imagine being able to iframe anything other than by RNG

[cunning urchin]

It's just practice.

[spring turret]

oof

[flat brook]

just to clarify, are we talking about reacting to no FO or FO2?

[cunning urchin]

Staying cool and calm. Knowing what to look for.

[sacred idol]

hey, I've played other games for thousands of hours and still been bad at them.

[flat brook]

not that i can react even with no FO

[sacred idol]

there is no "just" if you're not able to do it

people who can do that can always say it, doesn't make it the same for everyone else

[tired elk]

When you say dodge with iframes

do you mean dodge by dodging?

[flat brook]

dodge by facetanking with iframes

[tired elk]

"dodge by dodging" makes sense

[sacred idol]

well, using call's animation to 'dodge' counts

[spring turret]

some calls make u immune to dmg

[sacred idol]

that's the same thing as using a dodge at the right time basically, you're invincible at the very start of the animation, no?

[spring turret]

is what they're talking about

impervious status

[sacred idol]

others make you invinc for the entire duration

the transform calls and athena

but I think nyaa is referring to the casting animation making you dodge if timed properly

[cunning urchin]

All calls make you briefly invincible on activation.

[sacred idol]

which is... lol no, not for me

[spring turret]

really

i never tried hard enough to use that

[sacred idol]

I HAVE perfectly iframe dodged Hades' spin a couple times...

But every other time, I take it to the face and immediately explode

So it's partly luck, lmao

[flat brook]

the way i use calls to dodge is by getting second wind and hoping the 45% dodge works

[sacred idol]

that too kek

[flat brook]

works everytime 45% of the time

[spring turret]

actually second wind becomes quite a bit better

[mighty ermine]

is call activation immunity comparable to dash i-frames, or less? (more?)

i never actually make use of it

[cunning urchin]

Final boss's skulls when he shoots them will literally just disappear if you i-frame them with a call lol.

[spring turret]

since it is active more

[tired elk]

Or if you bash int othem

they go away as well

[spring turret]

or just use deflect dash

[cunning urchin]

I think the i-frames start a lot faster with call. Basically immediately?

[flat brook]

i know that you get iframes and unload things on the screen with greater call, but i thought normal calls did nothing like that

[tired elk]

Or is that only because I get deflect on my attack with chaos shield? lol

[sacred idol]

I can't imagine actually doing that successfully.

[mighty ermine]

ah, interesting

[sacred idol]

If I tried, I would immediately take boiling blood to the face.

[spring turret]

i dont have the primordial reaction rate to use a brief call invulnerability from something like zeus to dodge attacks

[sacred idol]

About 9/10 of the time, then the other 1/10 perfect dodge it or something

[cunning urchin]

The i-frames are pretty lenient.

[sacred idol]

like I said, it's not an experience people with better reflexes tend to understand

[cunning urchin]

Plus they're immediate. It's easier than i-framing with dash.

[sacred idol]

I could not perfect catch fish more than 1/3 of the time until they... buffed the time to be more forgiving?

I'm sure they did

It used to be some absurd fraction of a second, now it feels like at least half

[spring turret]

im sure that only the athena, poseidon, ares ones are immediate.

the others are barely notcieable

[sacred idol]

perfect catch is definitely buffed, yeah?

[spring turret]

dont really know

[sacred idol]

it used to be something silly like 0.2s

[cunning urchin]

I've practiced and still practice my reactions a lot and very deliberately to be able to react as fast as I do. While people do have different natural reaction speed, you can get a lot better at any reaction with deliberate practice.

[spring turret]

i'd find it easier to use deflect dash i-frames than a random 1 bar call because its not very well indicated

i dont know if you can really generalise your opinion to be universal considering your a extreme high heat player

[sacred idol]

^

upper limits and handicaps are still a thing

that and some people just aren't that hardcore and have neither the time nor the desire to go that far.

[spring turret]

yeah your trying to do bosses hitless on extreme high heat so your probably more immersed into the flow of gameplay better than most people. I dont think majority of people can play around the brief second of invincibility of non-athena/ares/poseidon calls the way you can.

[flat brook]

i dont even see haelian in 50 heat runs doing that

[cunning urchin]

I think you're making it out to be a lot more difficult than it is, though, without really having given it a try. Any attack you can i-frame with dash, you can i-frame with a call more easily. And if you have trouble with dash, using a call might work better for you because the i-frames are immediate.

[spring turret]

i'll have to try it out myself to really confirm this

[sacred idol]

It depends... if you could catch perfect catch fish pre-Nighty Night consistently, you're good

[cunning urchin]

I could do that, yes. Well, I know my reactions are above average. But I also couldn't react in time to do single hit confirms in Street Fighter V at all until I practiced them every day for months. And I know SFV players with way better reactions than my own even after all that practice.

[spring turret]

i dont know how worthwhile this debate even is, i doubt many people use the call for one i-frame even without smouldering air. Its mostly for the other and more obvious effect of either damage, status, imperviousness.

[cunning urchin]

It's more than one i-frame lol.

[sacred idol]

lmao. I had a copy of UMvC3. I couldn't get more than halfway through the combo lists in the practice mode.

[spring turret]

which call in particular

and also how long does it last

[cunning urchin]

People don't use it because most people don't even know about it.

[spring turret]

i havent even heard of this until now

[cunning urchin]

Exactly.

Any call. I don't know the exact number of i-frames, but it's very lenient from my experience.

[spring turret]

well thats still quite partial, i cant infer anything from that

[cunning urchin]

Just try it lol.

[sacred idol]

I'll try it the next time I get callspam builds, I usually forget to use the call unless it's on Smoldering or Hermes' thing

[spring turret]

if its such as game-changing and worthwhile an experience as your hyping it up to be i wonder why it isnt so widely known. Feel like your the only person whos been endorsing it.

[sacred idol]

but with my newfound love for zeus boons, I'm sure I'll get many chances

[cunning urchin]

I've only started looking into it because @raw violet recommended it to me instead of relying on Poseidon's Aid. And it's proven incredibly effective.

[sacred idol]

inb4 us slow plebs still can't do it

actually

[spring turret]

I suppose you can really only tell these things if you try it yourself

[sacred idol]

I still lost a DD despite having Clouded+Quick Favor+Athena call

on Hades

so that should be a solid idea of how bad I am at dodging

literally god mode dispenser on lucifer, which charges it... uh... ridiculously fast, plus spearpoint

[spring turret]

I suppose the question is not if its doable but if its practical for the general player. Completely subtracting experience and skill from the equation.

[cunning urchin]

if its such as game-changing and worthwhile an experience as your hyping it up to be i wonder why it isnt so widely known.
To be honest, the group of us who are pushing high heat and try to push new strategies that work in more extreme situations is very small.

[spring turret]

yeah i dont know if this strategy is appropriate for this channel then

[cunning urchin]

It's not necessarily game-changing, but it's very effective for dodging attacks.

[spring turret]

because its certainly not the first obvious use for the call

[cunning urchin]

I don't think it's very difficult to do.

[sacred idol]

I mean, calling when the attack is headed your way is probably a good habit to have for a boss, but I don't think this is a strictly fair evaluation of difficulty

[cunning urchin]

You can call when you see the final boss come out of invincibility for example. Or practice using the call anytime you see a spin startup in the fight. Even if you don't get it every time, it's a bit easier than trying to dash.

[hushed ledge]

I feel like this is a pretty good build coming out of Tart tbh
https://imgur.com/zKQA1Nr

(note the exit wounds I also have LOL)

[spring turret]

a duo that early is pretty lucky

[hushed ledge]

6 boons

[cunning urchin]

This is Poseidon Aspect? Yeah, that's solid.

[hushed ledge]

yep pos aspect

[spring turret]

artemis cast with poseidon is always a fun time

despite the nerfs

[sacred idol]

yeah, duos in tartarus are funny business

[hushed ledge]

i'm more in shock at 6 boons

and it's a good build as well lol

[spring turret]

one after another?

i remember getting hunting blades in 3 rooms once

[cunning urchin]

I'll say I thought it was likely way too difficult to really be worth trying it until I actually tried it.

[spring turret]

i guess if you are so adamant on endorsing it i really have to try it some time since you seem so convinced that it is better than i give it credit so i admit that there may be some substance to your claims.

[kindred needle]

Did my first run with the new Rail aspect. While the concept/look of the ||SatanLaser|| is pretty rad, it felt kinda... underwhelming, in practice?

having a ramp-up time on a single-target attack that eats through ammo so quickly without doing face-melting damage wasn't as sweet as I expected when mobbed with enemies?

The special is super cool, and I am actually excited to try it out some more with some other boon interactions! Just awkward adjusting to the first run with a new weapon, I guess

[dapper bridge]

what does everyone think of the new Bow aspect?

[magic dagger]

try zeus @kindred needle

[spring turret]

or aphro

doubles the dmg and unhealthy fixation is busted

zeus support fire with eternal chamber becomes better og rail easily

[brave dune]

I thought the laser was kinda OP actually, I had Demeter's attack boon on it and it melted basically everything. Then I got the ramp-up damage hammer and it melted everything.

[spring turret]

piercing fire certainly helps

[serene nexus]

... support fire Lucy rail sounds bonkers

[spring turret]

with the single target problem

[sacred idol]

@kindred needle bad boons, because with good boons it absolutely does melt every face

[brave dune]

Just need one good attack boon :p

[sacred idol]

eternal chamber zeus support fire, can confirm, it wins even with trash common tiers

[spring turret]

i feel like you could take just about anything on lucifer barring dio

[sacred idol]

barring?

dio attack is reportedly insane on it

[spring turret]

dio on attack is just a waste though

[dapper bridge]

I liked dio attack personally

[kindred needle]

Oh, does it proc boons such as Zeus bolts and Arte arrows constantly while firing the lasers? That's, uh, that's a pretty big difference between boons, haha

[spring turret]

yeah but zeus attack quite alot better

[sacred idol]

nah, you stack monstrously fast, that's basically chaos shield rates

[brave dune]

Does athena deflect on the laser? That'd be interesting

Like an extended lightsaber

zwoom

[sacred idol]

@brave dune What the hell. That hammer works on it, and stacks with its native ramping?

[spring turret]

dont think it does

[dapper bridge]

yeah it does @kindred needle . It'll proc it every tick of damage

[sacred idol]

I do believe the laser should deflect with athena

[spring turret]

its a bit hard to deflect

[brave dune]

It has native ramping??

[dapper bridge]

zeus attack is really funny to look at

[kindred needle]

wowzers

[sacred idol]

but the hitbox is bad for that

[spring turret]

it certainly works to proc things like deadly reversal

[brave dune]

I thought it was an Aspect specific boon that had that hammer

[sacred idol]

Someone actually said dio lucy was potentially even stronger than zeus

[spring turret]

interesting

[sacred idol]

It has native ramping.

if it can get the ramping hammer, then...

uh, yeah, your base damage will be absolutely disgusting at the end of a mag

[dapper bridge]

with ramping hammer its jsut... really fast

[brave dune]

I'm pretty sure it has an exclusive ramping hammer..

[dapper bridge]

it does yes

[spring turret]

but like dio caps out at a maximum of 5 (8 with duo)

the poison doesnt get any better

[dapper bridge]

but it also has baseline ramping

[serene nexus]

Demeter would be better but it would require more set up

[sacred idol]

hm? as far as I know, the ramping hammer is not exclusive.

[brave dune]

Damn that's strong

[sacred idol]

ramping hammer is for all rails

[serene nexus]

Provided you get her chill explosion boon

Except Hestia

[frank tide]

didn't they remove the ramp hammer

[sacred idol]

but yes, it has native ramping and gets nasty with double stacking

[brave dune]

I took Demeter when I had the ramp, because a slower target is easier to ramp on

[dapper bridge]

I found the chill explosion boon to be pretty fun as well yeah

[spring turret]

wait how does it work with dio?

[sacred idol]

wait, does hestia not get it at all, or just zero synergy?

[spring turret]

does it make the poison stack faster?

[brave dune]

Oh god I can only imagine having chill explosion on attack..

[dapper bridge]

yeah you get max stacks almsot instantly

[serene nexus]

I’d imagine 0 synergy

[dapper bridge]

because of how quick the damage ticks

[spring turret]

no i mean the dmg

its still every 0.5 seconds

right

[dapper bridge]

oh the poison doesnt tick any faster as far as I'm aware

[spring turret]

oh nvm

[sacred idol]

yeah, but it does let you stack cap stupid fast

[spring turret]

i thought there was some weird interaction i was unaware of

[sacred idol]

and I think it's more a matter of what you can stack on top of poison

[dapper bridge]

yeah you basically get it instantly

[serene nexus]

Yeah. Which is why I think that if you’re doing that Demeter is better for both the chill explosion and the slow

[dapper bridge]

it helps to proc privileged status as well

[sacred idol]

so basically a chaos shield build.

[spring turret]

you can basically do that same with chaos aspect or chiron

i feel chill is better cuz artic blast exists

[sacred idol]

it's easier to get than demeter splosion tho

[serene nexus]

Very true

[sacred idol]

and a bad rolled dem attack without it sucks

[spring turret]

if u want an easy build to get just do zeus

[sacred idol]

tried it. 0 kills vs thanatos

[brave dune]

That poor guy that started this saying Luci is underwhelming.. rip

[serene nexus]

I mean. Luci might just not be his style

[spring turret]

i feel like its the only one that universally loved

[sacred idol]

bad roll demeter, common rarity and no arcblast

[dapper bridge]

I think it is a bit of a weird weapon to use at first, so it's rpetty understandable

[serene nexus]

Like I don’t like Achilles Spear

[sacred idol]

it is a strange weapon to get used to

[spring turret]

out of the fourth aspects

[sacred idol]

your special is no longer a "get off me" button

[dapper bridge]

haha yeah thats true

[spring turret]

i scrapped by with a bad demeter attack

[sacred idol]

it's a wholly different, much more tactical attack

[spring turret]

with privileged status

[kindred needle]

it was for my first run, but that's because it wasn't what I expected it to be. Gonna try it out with some other boons!

[brave dune]

🙂 No worries, just poking innocent fun

[spring turret]

i think u need to level it up

[dapper bridge]

yeah give it another chance Azujax. With some practice you'll get used to it

[spring turret]

at max is what we're talking about

generally low level weapons are not as good as they seem

[sacred idol]

It's bad unranked like most aspects I think

[spring turret]

take low level chaos shield for example

[sacred idol]

I instant maxed it

[serene nexus]

Doesn’t the max only apply to Lucifer special explosion?

[brave dune]

It doesn't need a level-up. I used it just once at unranked and it still melted everything..

[sacred idol]

Like Zeus Aspect

[spring turret]

oh nvm

[dapper bridge]

yes thats true Telos

[sacred idol]

absolute garbage at unranked

[spring turret]

i wasnt aware

[sacred idol]

oh wait, really?

interesting

[spring turret]

that the attack doesnt get affected

in anyway

[dapper bridge]

yeah its only the special

[sacred idol]

so it does work unranked if you go primary

[dapper bridge]

thats true yes

[brave dune]

Maybe I like it so much because I just came off a bad Beowulf run, thinking "all legendaries are this difficult?" and then getting Luci upturned all that

[sacred idol]

okay so it's also one of the most cost-friendly aspects, its beam has a lot of ways to make it work

I think Luci is just...

[spring turret]

if you could get it early enough you could use it to breeze through a new save file

[sacred idol]

It's one of the most compatible aspects in the game.

[spring turret]

just need 5 heat invested into some rail aspect

[sacred idol]

In the sense that it works with almost anything

[spring turret]

and only 1 level

into the weapon

[serene nexus]

I’d honestly say that the aspects that need blood the most are things with flat values.

Guan Yu Spear, Hestia Rail, Chaos Aspect Shield, Poseidon Aspect, Chiron Bow

[sacred idol]

Need GY unlocked

[brave dune]

tbh I think it has the least drawback out of any of the legendary aspects, and its special is reeeally versatile

[sacred idol]

@serene nexus Zeus Shield absolutely needs blood

[spring turret]

oh really

[dapper bridge]

GY spear felt so much better after maxing it lol

[spring turret]

rip

[sacred idol]

GY is the gateway to all 4th aspects

But once you have that, and you like the rail...

[spring turret]

how do u get gy anyway

[serene nexus]

I like the way that Hades Spear feels now. Did it get buffed by chance?

[brave dune]

Achilles tells you about it

[spring turret]

it just happened randomly

right

or do u need to accomplish a few things first

[dapper bridge]

you'll have to play for a bit yeah

[serene nexus]

Spin attacks feel a lot more powerful

[dapper bridge]

unsure what the exact conditions are

[spring turret]

oh its listed

[serene nexus]

Maybe for spears in general

[brave dune]

I think you need to have a win and good relations?

[spring turret]

quite alot

[sacred idol]

Aspect of Guan Yu. Acquire the Fated List, unlock at least 5 other aspects, and fight Hades at least once (outcome is irrelevant). Achilles should tell you more in a conversation soon after that.

[brave dune]

ouh

[spring turret]

wont be as fast as i thought it would be

but still

[sacred idol]

well, not that fast

[dapper bridge]

oh thats not as bad as I thought actually

[sacred idol]

you need to dunk a lot of blood

bow and rail maybe, just unlock those

to also qualify for rama in one extra blood or so

[dapper bridge]

I think bow has some really cool aspects, but I'm pretty biased as a mainly bow player

[brave dune]

Does Zag aspects count? Then you don't need blood, just keys

[dapper bridge]

so take that witha grain of salt

[sacred idol]

ehh I wouldn't think so

yeah bow has cool ones

[dapper bridge]

I doubt it

[spring turret]

chrion bow has mixed responses

[sacred idol]

I love chiron when it works

but it feels weak when it doesn't

[spring turret]

zagreus bow is boring but still quite decent

[sacred idol]

never tried full cast builds

like hera

[dapper bridge]

Oh yeah I'm well aware that they aren't the greatest

I just enjoy it

[spring turret]

hera is a cast weapon so hit or miss

[brave dune]

Which bow has a lot of arrows in its special?

[dapper bridge]

Hera is what made me fall in love with the bow tbh

[spring turret]

either destroy or be destroyed by bad rng

[dapper bridge]

Thats Chiron

[spring turret]

cast builds are very strong

[brave dune]

Ah yes, the shotgun aspect

[spring turret]

just heavily rng dependent

[dapper bridge]

yeah I'll usually pick artemis or aphro keepsake to start

just because you really need a nice cast

[brave dune]

It's funny how if you fight Hades and he calls you a coward for using the bow, but your playstyle is about getting right up in people's faces and spamming volley or triple-shot..

Bow is ironically one of the best melee weapons in game

[kindred needle]

Athena on Rail:L special creates orbs with a pulsing deflection aura, similar to what happens with Shield:Zeus :D
alright, I'm stoked

[dapper bridge]

oh yeah Athena special is really nice

I told you man, you just gotta give it a chance and practice a little!

Good luck with your runs

[brave dune]

Hellfire melts Flame Wheels

Just place them like mines and they'll die, the only problem is the special time

Also is it just me but is there no way to stop the Exalted Brightswords insta-melee attack?

They don't seem to get staggered by melee attacks

[elfin pulsar]

so I read in the patch notes that beowulf gets new cast boons, are any in particular worth getting?

[sacred idol]

hera is a cast weapon so hit or miss
@spring turret you mean literally hit or miss? did they ever give it improved recall behavior?

[dapper bridge]

they did not as far as I'm aware

[sacred idol]

@kindred needle Take Greater Hellfire if you can.

That will let you enjoy the large deflection circles, but have room to fire around them and intentionally keep them as shields.

[stuck elbow]

Beo has flares instead of casts, all of which function very differently

you even lose access to a lot of the cast centric duo boons

[dapper bridge]

you miss out on some cast duo's?

thats a little unfortunate

[elfin pulsar]

which ones do you like?

[dapper bridge]

havent actually tried the new shield yet, should probably give that a go eventually

[sacred idol]

So the Beo casts are all very different from each other?

[dapper bridge]

I remember playig around with ti against skelly

and the basic cast was an AOE

so I'm assuming all the casts dont do what they normally do?

[sacred idol]

yeah basically.

is that all it does?

[dapper bridge]

the damage was the same but they come out as an AOe, one after the other very quickly

instead of all at once like on Hera bow

havent tried it on a real run so cant speak for the other casts

[stuck elbow]

yeah all casts get a revamp

some like Ares function very differently

[dapper bridge]

oh damn really? Thats kinda neat

[elfin pulsar]

found my first cast, demeters. epic version does 90 dmg up from 50 and inflicts chill

doesnt seem great tbh but I guess slamming 3 chill into everybody is alright

[dapper bridge]

so it does an AOE instead of dropping the little turret?

[turbid needle]

Yes.

[elfin pulsar]

yup, its just a burst from the description

[brave dune]

Does Chiron aspect reduce the damage of your special?

[turbid needle]

Technically.

[dapper bridge]

no, but it does reduce the numebr of arrows

[turbid needle]

It cuts the shots fired by 2.

[dapper bridge]

so actually yes in a way?

yeah schpoonman said it better lol

[brave dune]

A close-burst from Chiron does max 85 damage, but an unupgraded Zag does 115?

[elfin pulsar]

im actually really liking this shield aspect, I thought it was kinda lame and slow vs skelly but I love the weight against enemies

[dapper bridge]

yes, but the point is that you dont have to be close to use the special for max damage with Chiron

[sacred idol]

Not gonna lie

[turbid needle]

You reeeally want to spawn into Relentless Volley with Chiron.

[dapper bridge]

^^^^