I mean you can but shouldn't
#h1-builds-and-combat
drowsy path
Okey thanks ❤️ i going to read that ^^
dry ember
Right now focus is on another event. Eventually SGG will be open to normal feedback.
So just hold on to your feedback until a later time (soon). I hope I make sense haha
naive tusk
Meanwhile, Foxtrot tataaahtatatata
weak moat
I'm uncertain - can we talk about Blood Price gameplay here, since it feels like it'll kind of be the default anyway? Or do we take that into beta discussion as well
carmine rivet
until the update officially drops, i think beta discussion
naive tusk
You can't talk about anything concerning the tech beta outside the beta channels.
Traitor
raw violet
@mighty ermine nice Hades v Hades fight
dry ember
Hmm true
raw violet
unless you're trying to not play the beta right now
dry ember
I actually don't have it installed
raw violet
there is hope for you
dry ember
I might silently try it out. But in the mean time I'll wait for things to settle a bit.
peak iron
Do it. Join the dark side.
untold vortex
but only if you wanna
peak iron
Do it even if you don't want to! It will build character.
And also help SGG find bugs.
It's like lifting weights or jogging. You might not want to at first, but it's good for you and you'll get used to it!
dry ember
peak iron
I am proud of you for that reference Fox.
peak iron
Because that comic is the only reason I ever say "It Builds Character"
dry ember
@mighty ermine ok just now finished watching the 40 heat run
That's one impressive Hades fight mate
I'm in awe at the skill of this lad.
naive tusk
Aw, Foxy doesn't like the hustle, just like me 
dry ember
Yeah I'm hanging out on the beta channel since it's the most active atm. But I'll wait for official June update which should be soon. Hopefully not soon™.
naive tusk
Aaaaww 😍
weak moat
@raw violet almost time to make a new folder for the new update then
magic dagger
"new boons" also means new opportunities for RNGesus to curse your runs, right?
hazy yacht
question: what is the best keepsake and why is it butterfly
hardy epoch
Collar because 1) it gives HP which is good for not dying and 2) it's from my favorite three headed dog
sudden dagger
True facts
magic dagger
feather duster any day
because food is tasty and it comes from everyone's favorite maid
sudden dagger
I believe the correct answer is all Tiamats
prime helm
Question: when a boon map on the wiki to a legendary boon has two different colored paths leading to one boon, does it mean the boons leading up to it are mandatory or a different path to take?
unkempt pagoda
it means both are needed
untold vortex
Ayyy niceu ^_^
carmine rivet
gods damn, the special on Guan Yu is so good. Fox was right, just ditch the spin attack
played cat and mouse with 'em the whole time and lost acorn right at the end
hushed ledge
nice!
dry ember
I see my name <3
Try Deadly Flourish and Charged Skewer
You can crit upward 1.1k easy
carmine rivet
oo thanks for the shout
yeah i was trying to grab divine strike so bad cause you and nyaan talked about that combo but i couldn't get a single Attack boon
i grabbed Zeus as my final purchase in styx cuz i thought i would need it
naive tusk
Also grab Tempest Flourish and never worry about them being near you ever again 
carmine rivet
i do quite like poseidon's knockback boons. especially when it's combined with bonus wall crushing dmg.
for that run though i think the deflect on Athena's flourish saved my hide from a couple instances of damage.
carmine rivet
My only regret is I didn’t hop into this community sooner!
dry ember
Welcome :) we love you
I haven't been here for that long either
But I've been more active here than others that I've been part of for way longer haha
carmine rivet
naive tusk
The doggo has been great being the comic relief alongside flower girl around here
carmine rivet
hahah
well unfortunately it’s 11 pm for me and i was only on so long before because i didn’t sleep at all. so i should sleep tonight at least. g’night!
carmine rivet
Well i won’t be misbehaving anytime soon, at least not intentionally.
naive tusk
"anytime soon"
carmine rivet
I cannot rule out the possibility of future unwitting shenaniganery
surreal hound
is aphrodite cast bad and festive fog op ?
dry ember
I'm inclined to say that there is no "bad" boon in a vacuum.
A fair statement to say is Festive Fog is easier to use effectively than Crush Shot.
Take that however you will.
dry ember
Oops mb then haha
hushed ledge
I've decided I'm gonna learn EM3 and then just turn heat way up I think
leaden hare
Aphrodite cast has a very short distance, which means you need to stand very close to enemies
hushed ledge
rip win streak 😦
EM3 is hard
and i got hit by a trap on hades p2
went from "i can do this" to "oh"
untold vortex
hushed ledge
15 win streak
didn't even SS it 😦
time to start playing on some much higher heat and forcing myself to git gud
untold vortex
You gots this mate ^_^
cunning urchin
I avoid EM3 on high heat runs if I can.
cunning urchin
What weapon?
cunning urchin
Well, I would use different pacts for different weapons.
hushed ledge
fair
actually i should probably just grind low heats until next patch tbh 😦
play fun weapons instead of trying to win tho
cunning urchin
FO2 and TD2 are standard for me unless I really want to chill or something.
That's 11 heat right there.
cunning urchin
Hmmm. I think learning to beat TD2 is a requirement if you want to get to the really high heats.
hushed ledge
probably
cunning urchin
It helps you focus on the builds that have good DPS.
hushed ledge
but for now I want to learn without time pressure
and then add that later once I can actually play FO2 EM3
cunning urchin
I actually didn't do EM3 until 41 heat. Well, I tried it a couple times before, but I didn't do it for 32 heat.
I'd recommend getting used to EM2 and FO2 for sure.
fervent spoke
Im struggeling with Adamant Rail. After i clear Hades with Shield, Bow and TwinGlowes, i can not find a good combo for it. What Aspect shcould i use? And what Daedalus Modifiers?
hushed ledge
on 0 heat or on higher heats?
fervent spoke
0 or 1
cunning urchin
Try Zagreus Aspect, start with the Thunder Signet in Tartarus, and get Lightning Strike.
cunning urchin
That's a pretty easy build that will do good DPS and get you used to the weapon.
hushed ledge
controller can aim rail much better
turbid arch
Yes and no.
I can see a good KBM player having a better time with the rail because it allows you much more flexibility for placing your specials.
hushed ledge
yeah special is easier on kbm
tepid trail
did the update finally launch yet?
sudden dagger
I just had a rail run with posidon's special, and with controller it was really difficult to aim carefully enough to push people into walls rather than in a random direction
The rocket update is pretty good on controller since you can't quickly and accurately move the aim circle on controller
I was also trying the push/pull gloves (knockback on special), and realized they'd be a lot more fun with long knuckle
tepid trail
man downloading the beta is far longer than i thought it would take
turbid arch
One problem with KBM rail is that you have a hard time properly aiming the special between waves because the auto aim does not register the enemies until they are fully spawned in
hushed ledge
I don't use auto aim at all on kbm
I'd rather miss because I can't aim than miss because the game screwed me over
magic cedar
Does the doge chance from lambient plume stay if I switch keepsakes?
cunning urchin
No.
magic cedar
Ah, thanks for the tip!
sand cape
Auto aim kinda screw you with rail if you dash over an enemy
fringe torrent
with adamant rail you just spam Q all the time and gg ez next
exaggerating of course but bombardment is the way to go
sand cape
I instantly change special to mouse and cast to Q since special is so useful in most weapons
sudden dagger
I wish this game had a real doge chance
drowsy path
I spend like 35 runs to get 1 win with each type of weapon
Spent*
Not bad
So cool
cunning urchin
Nice! Go go! 
mighty ermine
@dry ember i slept super early last night but a very late thank you
was probably one of my cleanest hades fights in general
stoic thicket
Man, it's been a long while since I got my butt handed to me before even seeing the Champions.
sand cape
shield with charged shot feels like a better bow
blissful hazel
I have no idea if this is the correct place to put this, but I think this game could sincerely benefit from an auto pause feature that triggers in the event of a controller disconnect. I lost a streak because my controller disconnected and that sucks. Not sure how difficult that would be to implement but assuming it isn't overly difficult it'd be a welcome feature!
main osprey
that sounds like something you could put in #hades-feedback ! (Or if you're not playing the beta, something you could add in once it goes back to regular feedback!)
unkempt pagoda
not really
you get a small amount of damage resistance every time you die, up to a max of 80%
i think it resets per win?
naive tusk
God mode gives you a damage reduction buff depending on how well or bad you are doing 
main trail
So it is supposed to help you finish the game at least once
unkempt pagoda
it makes the game easier, for people who want to see the dialogue or just want an easier time
main trail
Ok thx for the info
carmine rivet
It does not reset on a successful clear
Damage reduction starts at 20% and goes up by 2% each time you get killed.
sly sonnet
carmine rivet
Onyx said the max is 80%, which i'll take his word on. Sounds like a good cap to me.
jaunty cairn
does anyone else feel like the poseidon dash has no reason doing as much damage as it does
main osprey
I think pos in general does a lot of damage
carmine rivet
yeah poseidon does a lot of straight damage on his boons because he doesn't have a status curse
unkempt pagoda
aside from his attack, pos does quite a bit of damage
he does have a curse, he has rupture
main osprey
he doesn't have a Tier 1 status curse
and the other gods that don't either (like Artemis) also have very high damage
sand cape
i think the understandin is that poseidon effects push enemies away from your attacks so they have to be strong
umbral lagoon
main osprey
beta discussion goes in #beta-discussion-june20 , my friend :P
quick vigil
How does the hazard bomb interact with the aspect of eris?
hardy epoch
Anything about the new update belongs in #beta-discussion-june20 please
quick vigil
Not about the beta lol
hardy epoch
Oh sorry
carmine rivet
hazard bomb doesn't do a bunch of damage to Zag but yeah in order to get eris you'd need to take dmg
naive tusk
I wouldn't take Hazard Bomb while playing with Eris, especially since it forbids the other Special upgrades from appearing in future hammer picks 
Rocket Bomb, Cluster Bomb & Triple Bomb are better suited for Aspect of Eris
tepid ridge
It deals reduced damage to you and increases with your special’s damage, or at least, that’s what people on here have said they found while testing. It feels like it does 2-3 damage at base.
magic dagger
The real problem with taking hazard bomb with eris is that you stagger when you get hit
meaning that you have to sit and wait for a moment before attacking/dodging
hushed ledge
FO is so much fun
magic dagger
definitely makes the game more intense
until you get to the final boss and suddenly it's easy mode
untold vortex
ayy congrats ^_^
magic dagger
Thanks
now I can fix the fact that my farthest-along save only has 4 runs and 2 clears
I'm shooting for 4 runs and 4 clears this time
magic dagger
i've never gotten athena's legendary
@carmine rivet get brilliant riposte as early as possible
carmine rivet
good shout
primal sigil
Does anyone think the gaming table in Zagreus's room is hinting at some weird coop mode?
untold vortex
I don't think so
naive tusk
From #hades-faq :
Is Hades a multiplayer game, or are there any plans for multiplayer?
"Hades is a single-player game. We have no plans to add multiplayer, as we have been building the design and narrative of Hades with a solo experience in mind."
mighty ermine
@magic dagger woah congrats! it's fun how stygius doesn't even have its own boon icon equivalent that early on, even in the victory screen
magic dagger
Lv. 0 weps don't have benefits, so they can't be recognized as the MVPs they really are : (
It's funny, the first run practically guarantees you a good build, with only 4 gods to choose from
so it really just comes down to whether you know how to beat the bosses with 1 dash and no DDs
You can usually get two duos and a legendary or 2
fringe torrent
I finally beat the guy, literally https://imgur.com/iJkCkgk
cunning urchin
Congrats!
hushed ledge
Gz
lament coral
Thought that victory title said "the fist of many"
dry ember
That works too tbh
livid comet
new update, whodis?
(what does reset talents do, the wording is throwing me off and it looks like you spend a key for it)
untold vortex
so you get all your darkness that you've invested in the mirror back to do with what you please
at the cost of a key
livid comet
...and this can be done as many times as you want?
untold vortex
livid comet
yey
untold vortex
it resets the mirror though
random hull
Exactly. Instead of being allowed to switch around the darkness, instead you must expend a key to undo everything.
turbid arch
It is just a key.
random hull
You'll find that some of the mirror options are build-dependant (Family Favorite is good for builds that don't pull off Privileged Status consistently), while others are down to personal preference (I prefer the added mobility of Greater Reflex, but a more skilled player could find the bonus from Ruthless Reflex very useful).
fringe torrent
best boons for talos fists in your opinion?
stoic thicket
Huh, I don't really run Talos much, Nyaa is the expert in all things Malphon. Poseidon special is fun in a meme-y kind of way, otherwise I think you can also pull of the classic Merciful End stuffs with Talos, though probably not as good as with Zag aspect.
untold vortex
that goes in #beta-discussion-june20
not here
please read the #test-branch-readme @graceful smelt
graceful smelt
ooh, sorry
cunning urchin
@fringe torrent Blizzard Shot and Demeter's Aid. Talos is all about control. You use the pull from your Special to position enemies where you want them. Your damage comes primarily from your cast and second from your attack.
The pull allows you to pull enemies into your Casts and Calls.
You don't actually use the Uppercut after the pull very much. You press Special for the pull and then immediately press Dash to cancel the Uppercut part, most of the time.
If you don't cancel it, there's a gap between the pull and the Uppercut where you can take a lot of damage. So the Uppercut is very risky, although it does have its uses that you'll figure out when you play with it more.
fervent spoke
Can someone tell me how Arthemis Hunter Dash work? 100% from zero is still zero.
cunning urchin
No, your dash-strikes all have a base damage.
Like, say, a dash-strike with the Twin Fists does 35 damage.
So +100% means 35 + 35 = 70 damage.
fervent spoke
Ah damn, dash-strike, thought only Dash - my bad
cunning urchin
Er.
25 base damage. But yeah, you get the idea.
Any Attack boons you have also apply to your dash-strikes.
So Hunter Dash works especially great with crits.
cunning urchin
Congrats!
civic barn
it was good stress relieve since everything melted immmediately
cunning urchin
It's missing Vicious Cycle to make it truly perfect.
civic barn
is that the size of the blades?
cunning urchin
No, that's his Legendary. +1 damage for every consecutive hit.
civic barn
oh the legendary
cunning urchin
But you got Bouldy, the best damage dealing summon.
civic barn
that would have been nice too
i don't think i can switch back to the other companions after using it to clear higher heats
maybe the other summons could do with an extra effect or two
cunning urchin
Bouldy's effect diminishes as you go up in heat because of Lasting Consequences.
But you can avoid most points in that until early 40-ish anyway.
I think there are more people using Battie over Shady, anyway.
Not sure why. I love Bouldy's healing.
lament heron
hey sorry to ask something unrelated
civic barn
Yeah, personally, it feels like any bit of healing helps a lot more than pure damage; since the latter is more of a build issue after a certain point
lament heron
im confused about how rarity works though in this game
i just got a bonus that upgraded 2 of my boons rarity
and phalanx shot became heroix
heroic
but i dont think it got buffed?
its still the same damage
does it make it wider
cunning urchin
Well, RNG can screw over any plans you had for your build. Battie would give you some consistency for damage.
civic barn
yeah, the rarity-level system isn't very well explained, but you can treat both as basically an increase in the green stat usually, with varying rates
so if your phalanx shot didn't get an increase in damage, that's probably something you can send a bug report about
lament heron
okay yea was wondering about that
cunning urchin
Epic Phalanx Shot damage at Lv.1 is 119. Heroic is 136.
random hull
There are four tiers of rarity to most boons (legendary and duo boons are exempt), and increasing rarity always has some sort of scaling benefit. Notably, boons that cannot be leveled up can still be increased in rarity, and thus improved. Ways to increase rarity are either by eating Eurydice's Ambrosia Delight, Demeter's Rare Crop, or an Exchange.
civic barn
you generally can't increase rarity (there are a few opportunities), but levels you can
lament heron
yea
this is the first time i got to increase my rarity
i think rereading its damage did go up but it went from 157 to 187 or something close and i didnt realize
but its level 2 so ty
livid comet
noice
lament heron
it makes sense but i wasnt sure what exactly it did
livid comet
just died to hades on a talos run
civic barn
i think their goal was to make rarity a drastic jump, but honestly, lv2 of a skill feels just as impactful, and afterwards it's not as efficient to try going for poms so i'm not sure how i feel about it myself
lament heron
yea level 2 always feels super nice tbh
cunning urchin
Sometimes +1 level can be better than +1 rarity. It's a bit odd. We only have data on Lv.1 boons in the wiki.
lament heron
level 3-4 feel not as great but it makes sense cause you should want to upgrade your other skills
civic barn
oh right there are definitely boons that can't be leveled up; more dashes is the first one i can think of
lament heron
can hammer boons be upgraded?
cunning urchin
No idea how pom scaling works for any boon, and you'd have to find that for every boon.
lament heron
i havent ever seen the detreus boons become upgraded
civic barn
nope, hammers are as they are when you get them
livid comet
I like the magnet special a lot - wish I had flurry cast for aph cast but oh well
civic barn
i think the issue with talos is that you need to stand still for a moment, and that can lead to terrible consequences the way hades is right now. it's definitely fun to pull and punch stuff around
random hull
As a rule of thumb, the first upgrade increases damage/damage increase by 25-40%, and it decreases from there. Hangover damage is a notable difference because of the small integers.
livid comet
ez if you've got ath dodge + hermes dash boosts
cunning urchin
I wrote some tips for Talos here earlier because somebody else asked about it, if you're interested. https://discordapp.com/channels/456889434672201729/520688402958516254/720600356358455316
livid comet
YES
new weapon, whodis
yeah I just read that lol
I figured aph + demeter was the way to go
but ended up dying to hades
¯_(ツ)_/¯
civic barn
crushing shot doesn't sound bad on talos
probably better than most, right?
I use demeter aspect a lot more so maybe that's not the case?
cunning urchin
I haven't tried Crush Shot on it, but I don't really think so.
Blizzard Shot is the best cast in the game, anyway. That or Ice Wine + Scintillating Feast.
But Blizzard Shot is easier to get and has better synergy with Talos's control.
livid comet
special into triple cast was alright, but there's a large gap between the special ending and the cast :/
you have to cancel the uppercut
cunning urchin
You can throw Blizzard Shot before the pull.
cunning urchin
It's a Duo Boon.
livid comet
yeah
might grab demeter horn and then poseidon
Frost Strike sounds pretty damn good on Talos
cunning urchin
The other way around. Get Flood Shot, then get whatever core boon from Lady Demeter.
livid comet
really?
cunning urchin
Yes.
I think out of the core boons, Demeter's Aid works best because you can keep enemies in its AOE with the pull.
civic barn
if you haven't filled out the attack slot that's always a good spot for demeter on malphon too
cunning urchin
Stygian Soul + Fated Persuasion, and reroll Chaos boons for +1 bloodstones.
turbid arch
"You need to chill!" he said as he froze him to the bone with furious fists.
livid comet
aight, imma sleep and try it out tomorrow
turbid needle
this looks rly fun
sudden dagger
Of the things people told me were good: achilles' spear with trippy shot, hera bow with trippy shot, fists with zeus, and chaos shield with zeus, the last one has been the best!
I just did a run with poseidon on special like yours, but I stopped seeing his boons after tartarus
Also, hunting blades. Could never get that to work
untold vortex
please don't post technical beta content outside of the beta channels @hazy yacht #beta-discussion-june20 is where you should post that screenshot
and please read the #test-branch-readme
turbid needle
that was beta? oof
untold vortex
yeah, the version number is in the top right
hazy yacht
it had no beta content
untold vortex
doesn't matter
hazy yacht
😐 ok
untold vortex
anything from the technical beta needs to be posted in the beta channels
regardless if there's anything new in it or not
hazy yacht
understood
sudden dagger
Is there rhyme or reason how much knockback you get on different effects?
hazy yacht
far as i can tell there is base knockback, knockback modifiers, and inertia in this game
sudden dagger
is the base knockback different for all the different weapon types, etc?
hazy yacht
each move that has knockback has its own base knockback
then modifiers are things like poseidon boons
fringe torrent
wew, zeus chain lightning build is not bad
this game felt easy with it
hazy yacht
inertia is inertia... if it's already moving, it'll move further
sudden dagger
so base knockback on chaos shield special would be different than hera bow, for example, with poseidon?
sudden dagger
That makes sense
hazy yacht
i guess it'd be inertia + conservation of momentum but you know what i mean
sudden dagger
can you get modifiers on the modifiers, besides the knockback twice effect?
hazy yacht
i don't think there are any ways to get more pushback other than poseidon
none that i know of anyway
sudden dagger
his legendary is the best way to accomplish that, it sounds like
having that on chaos shield's special sounds like it would be fun
hazy yacht
i used artemis special with the marking boon all the way up to hades, which was when i switched to poseidon for heroic buff
marking boon is 👌 on chaos shield
lament heron
just won my first run 😄
lament coral
the first of many!
lament heron
I had unhealthy fixation and being able to charm ||hades|| was maybe the funniest thing i've seen in the game so far
yup
gotta go do it on every other weapon now
stoic thicket
Congratz my dude. First of many!
still ocean
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/610629847496261662/720669467134263296/unknown.png
why did i pick underworld customs....
still ocean
yeah
stoic thicket
Depending on the weapon there's an argument for ditching Unhealthy Fixation too.
dry ember
Yeah... But it feels extra bad selling a Legendary
stoic thicket
I know, it's the worst.
Still, if it's the shield with the Aphro attack on I'd probably get rid of that one over the call, if it's the fists I might stick with it.
Not a lot of things get charmed for not a lot of time if you only very rarely attack.
still ocean
i was playing with the shield and unhealthy fixation appeared to be very useful as i attack very much. it allowed to cancel some attacks from ||hades|| and win
stoic thicket
Is the Guan Yu special influenced by Artemis dash?
cunning urchin
No.
Specials aren't Dash-Strikes.
If you mean the spin, that's also not affected.
stoic thicket
No, I meant the Special in particular. Alright, then that idea goes out the window.
hazy yacht
@still ocean beta pictures are supposed to go in #beta-discussion-june20 even if they don't have beta content
dry ember
I'll allow it.
unkempt pagoda
so was nobody gonna tell me eris + blade dash absolutely wrecks house or
stoic thicket
Uh... that sounds weird?
unkempt pagoda
it’s basically like having ares aid but on your dash instead
hybrid wave
out of curiosity, is the area right before the final boss completely random as to which chamber you're supposed to go to? I see some crumbling dirt effect but not sure if it's just cosmetic or some kind of hint
Also is it possible to be right the first time? Seems like it's never the first chamber
main osprey
Yes random, can't be the first
dry ember
What he said, random but can't be in the first room you choose.
main osprey
Lol
dry ember
What he said, don't need to laugh out loud though.
main osprey
Hmm
random hull
You should head over to the beta threads.
turbid needle
ty
livid comet
has Daedalus spawn been changed to Tartarus?
I remember it used to spawn a lot when in Elysium
now it seems to spawn more often in the first couple rooms
sand cape
i usually see the hammer in tartarus, then once again in elysium
hushed ledge
You can get 1 hammer in tart/ash and another in Ely/Styx
At least one is guaranteed to appear at some point, if you don't take it it's possible to show up again but it's risky
magic dagger
Triple shot for the bow actually works super well with hunter dash and deadly strike
cursive wing
I tried 32 heat last night. Just to see how it goes... Failed miserably
I did it because I gave a try to heat 16 and it was fine
magic dagger
Triple shot for the bow actually works super well with hunter dash and deadly strike
As in, a point-blank shot against the final boss moves him to the next phase
hushed ledge
Imagine release bow on that :O
small stirrup
OOF
hushed ledge
Back in my day we one shot hydra with bow
Now get off my lawn
keen ocean
What's Hermes' Auto-Reload do? It's not on the wiki, and I haven't played with the Stygian Soul option on yet.
hushed ledge
Iirc it's the one that just lowers your recharge time
unkempt pagoda
from my experience, 2.75 secs is useless while 2.26 secs is game changing for cast builds
of course, the better option would be to get some +1 casts instead
magic dagger
Playing lv.0 zag bow right now. I have arti attack and special, with 141% bonus dash strike damage, twin shot, and charged volley.
it's crazy
dry ember
nice!
empty grove
7
untold vortex
No tech beta stuff outside of #beta-discussion-june20 please
untold vortex
Please read the #test-branch-readme
empty grove
didnt think anything i had was beta spoils
untold vortex
Doesn't matter if there's spoilers or not, it's just common courtesy
rare topaz
stuck crater
hey guys can someone teach me how to fish ? i still not get the right time
dry ember
hey there maybe I can help
do you know about the basics? as in do you get fish at all? or just non legendary ones
stuck crater
not yet, i just did my first clear this week
rare topaz
hushed ledge
Fishing you just press E again when it flashes
untold vortex
Or RB if you use controller
dry ember
try this trick, put your hand on top of the buoy, just so it covers the top of the buoy, click the button as soon as you see a flash of light on top of your finger
afaik this has helped a couple of people here get their timing. oh and try your best to ignore the controller vibration if you are using it. the flash of light is all that matters.
stuck crater
got it, im trying now
hushed ledge
On KBM I move my right hand over so my pointer finger is on e
And just jitter react
stuck crater
i always pull to early 😩
dry ember
also you have 1 second to click post flash, the timing is not that tight, you just need to be patient, the buoy will fake bobs also
maybe we should have mentioned that first haha
dry ember
GL!
carmine rivet
buoy will fake bob between 1-3 times. gl fishing is dope
untold vortex
I read buoy as bobby at first 
carmine rivet
english is dumb, nothing is spelt the way it should and if it is it isn't pronounced correctly
stoic thicket
So if the "gh" in "enough" is pronounced like "f".
And the "o" in "women" is pronounced like "i".
And the "ti" in "ignition" is pronounced like "sh".
Then "ghoti" should be pronounced "fish".
hushed ledge
Because you're weird and Parkway is a word commonly used where you are
carmine rivet
i know i started it but #off-topic-discussion
on a hades note, anyone else think zag's chest bulges too much when he's breathing?
or at least too quickly?
dry ember
idk because he is a very blurry boy
magic dagger
His chest bulges perfectly
dry ember
the dude needs glasses
carmine rivet
i just notice it while practicing on the lyre
stuck crater
@dry ember i got a fish now thx
untold vortex
ayy niceu ^_^
fringe torrent
wow, guan yu build can be unstoppable (don't mind my missing death defiances, it's merely me being an idiot) https://i.imgur.com/W8GGDYP.png
magic dagger
now do an arti special + charged skewer run!
dry ember
nice! it's refreshing to see an attack build on GY haha
hushed ledge
GY attack is so tempting but special is just so good
My first bunch of GY runs were trying to be attack
But attack just doesn't really have that big a reward over special
hushed ledge
Yeah
dry ember
GY special gives you 50
magic dagger
my first 7 or so guan yu runs were ice win runs
dry ember
that's nutty
hushed ledge
And bow powershot doesn't have a massive hitbox
dry ember
and a massive wind up too xD
hushed ledge
I'm convinced GY special is the size of like Athena cast projectile
magic dagger
aspect of train
dry ember
hah
I just love showing off this pic, and it's not even mine but someone sent it to me
magic dagger
choo choo for 1024 damage
hushed ledge
That's a lot
magic dagger
might have been haelian, he did a bunch of runs going for big hits and nothing else
dry ember
nah it's from FL4K
magic dagger
oh neat
hushed ledge
It's really interesting seeing how aspects come into/fall out of favour over time within the same patch
cunning urchin
"Think he'll make it, Than?"
"He's dead, Zagreus."
cunning urchin
—Underworld Trek
magic dagger
wait a minute you can only deal as much damage to armor as the amount of armor remaining
are you sure it wasn't damage control?
magic dagger
I got a crit for 1 damage the other day
dry ember
yeah, as in you can have a 5k crit on a target with 2k armor right?
lament coral
yes
dry ember
only 2k damage but the number can show 5k
magic dagger
I got a crit for 1 damage the other day
lament coral
I saw that
cunning urchin
I got a crit for 1 damage the other day
Do you want some tips for DPS builds?
magic dagger
I promise that's how it works
hushed ledge
You need some kind of multi hit for it to carry through
lament coral
but you can crit tiny rats in Styx for thousands of damage
magic dagger
tiny rats aren't armored
cunning urchin
So basically, you can overkill, but you can't overarmorbreak.
magic dagger
you can get as high a health-damage number as you want, it's only armor damage numbers that are limited
dry ember
I tentatively don't trust that... sorry
cunning urchin
I wonder if you can. Than does 9999 damage, so maybe that's a cap.
magic dagger
than deals 1 damage 9,999 times per combo
lament coral
that was added in one of the patches
magic dagger
jk I'm making this up
cunning urchin
That's some fast combo.
magic dagger
it's just a possible explanation
cunning urchin
So it looks like he's just standing around, but that's because our frame rate can't keep up with his movement.
Interesting.
cunning urchin
1 damage per hit also explains why he always loses.
magic dagger
Hangover, except 1 hit per 0.00000001 sec.
dry ember
Than keepsake should let us bypass armor tbh, that would not be op at all.
cunning urchin
Every hit applies a Death stack that does 1 damage per tic. Death tics only proc once 9999 stacks are reached.
You know, that would pretty nice and make up for how slow it is.
I've tried using his summon before, but most of the time time I cleared the wave before he did his attack lol.
dry ember
imagine clearing a room of cloning numbskulls with that
magic dagger
sounds like a fun time
dry ember
I have never used Than companion before
magic dagger
It's slow
dry ember
yeah, most people either use Meg and Bouldy
hushed ledge
I have meg than and bouldy companions rn
Bouldy I'm running bc I need meta resources
cunning urchin
Than's summon is about as effective as that attack is when he competes with you.
naive tusk
Wowzers, people are chatting here 
north bronze
Of course, the game is awesome
untold vortex
dry ember
A brief respite
north bronze
It would be a sign of insanity not to want to share about it
hushed ledge
I'm not doing beta so I may as well keep talking here lol
north bronze
I usually skip Patroclus unless I'm missing DD charges
hushed ledge
Pat I grab if I think my run will struggle against the boss
north bronze
?
cunning urchin
Patroclus, get extra damage.
magic dagger
for the legs, man
they're beautiful
carmine rivet
i mean +60% attack is tempting yeah
magic dagger
also damage
north bronze
It's temporary though
magic dagger
the legs are forever tho
cunning urchin
Will last you through Elysium and into Styx.
north bronze
9 times out of 10 you're not gonna get the satyr sack first time and then your hosed for Hades because you neglected to build actual damage
I go Chaos here for sure
magic dagger
they don't have rerolls
north bronze
Got enough time for encounters before tHeSeUs and the bull
hushed ledge
Chaos carrying into boss is scary
magic dagger
chaos is risky
rare topaz
It's risky, but it's better than nothing.
cunning urchin
10 out of 10 times you're not getting the sack in the first tunnel. It's always in the second tunnel or later.
hushed ledge
The other options aren't nothing
rare topaz
From the looks of it though...
hushed ledge
Dio could give call
north bronze
Dio call is meh but not bad
dry ember
Nothing is better than Chaos
Patty is better than nothing
Therefore Patty is better than Chaos
Logic can't lie
rare topaz
You're missing a cast and a call, and both his cast and call are good.
north bronze
Also TIL Aphrodite's call does stupid damage on a full charge lol
rare topaz
Oof
hushed ledge
It's hera bow I think so Dio cast isn't where you want to be
rare topaz
As much as Artemis?
north bronze
2500
cunning urchin
Dionysus' Aid is the best DPS Call in the game. Don't wait for Greater Call, use it every time it's up.
rare topaz
Oh yeah didn't notice Hera.
north bronze
Poseidon's call is so much fun
rare topaz
Elysium with so few boons.
hushed ledge
Pos call is neat
carmine rivet
yeah i've been getting a lot of meta stuff
rare topaz
It is
cunning urchin
Poseidon's call is bugged, unfortunately.
carmine rivet
unfortunate room advancements
rare topaz
Yukine, you should go with Dio, is my vote.
dry ember
Elysium with so few boons.
Yeah, that's me every day with Underworld Customs
cunning urchin
And lol I got to Elysium with 2 boons yesterday. Thanks, Underworld Customs.
hushed ledge
It depends how you feel about boss 3
magic dagger
boons are unnecessary
rare topaz
I don't use Underworld Customs
hushed ledge
Dio you really only want call here I think?
magic dagger
we don't need crutches here
north bronze
I also tend to just ignore my cast altogether
Damage and special builds all the way baybee
rare topaz
:/
dry ember
Can I plug my kinda Olympian less run here again?
hushed ledge
I think the choice here is heavily dependent on how confident you are for the boss
magic dagger
Can I plug my kinda Olympian less run here again?
do it
north bronze
Only time I regularly use my cast is when I have the B E A M from Demeter
hushed ledge
I use Stygian so it's very easy to weave in
dry ember
carmine rivet
im sure i can make it through the heroes yeah. only 2 heat
dry ember
Shameless plug, again
cunning urchin
Zagreus's default cast is great. I use it all the time.
rare topaz
Pff
hushed ledge
I've cleared out half the room, enemies are on the other side? Cast while I'm running over there
rare topaz
And yeah the default cast is FINE. But it's just that, fine ;P
cunning urchin
Stuns enemies, applies debuffs, homing that helps you find off-screen enemies.
hushed ledge
Default cast is a decent damage ranged attack
north bronze
I also dash like a schizo, so I just reach the distant enemies eventually anyways :P
hushed ledge
I dash a lot but it's usually planned
rare topaz
Poseidon + Demeter cast, Artemis cast, Dio cast, so on
dry ember
I actively avoid non-lodging casts and Zeus casts
fringe torrent
aphro heroic dash, hermes +3 dashes, artemis attack buff... "break-your-jump-button build" is forming pretty nicely
rare topaz
Really they're all quite great, for the most part.
dry ember
unless i'm building specifically for them
north bronze
I had the +3 dashes and a dash-attack damage build a while back
hushed ledge
The biggest improvement I made to my gameplay was stopping dashing and slowly reincorporating it
north bronze
Lost track of my character pretty much every fight
cunning urchin
Even at RI4 with no extra casts and no cast regen and no debuff when it lodges, I used the default cast a lot.
magic dagger
drift dash is the only good boon
cunning urchin
Stunning Witches etc. from afar helps a lot.
rare topaz
Same @hushed ledge, dashing around a lot is fun, but it really leaves you prone to environmental stuff as well as attacks.
north bronze
Deflect dash ftw baby
rare topaz
I treat dash quite literally like an attack. Many boons make it so.
carmine rivet
Dio room is Asterius so boss'll go even better
hushed ledge
I run Stygian because I'm currently of the belief that it's not worth the brain cost to use internal
rare topaz
Nice Yuki
fringe torrent
It's same as Enter the Gungeon, I guess - rolling is good but you should be able to clear without it
rare topaz
Stygian Soul, the one with the recharge yeah?
hushed ledge
Yeah
north bronze
@fringe torrent Iron Maidens would like a word with you
keen ocean
I tend to bank on getting flurry cast so I can just unload them all at once.
north bronze
That and the freaking ammoconda
magic dagger
the only good zag spear build is trippy shot and splash dash
dry ember
Use Hera Bow
rare topaz
I only got flurry cast once I think.
dry ember
You basically have a free Flurry Cast
magic dagger
1332 damage from a critless attack feels good
cunning urchin
@magic dagger I disagree.
hushed ledge
Zag spear is the campiest weapon imo
cunning urchin
Zagreus Aspect Varatha is great with Blizzard Shot.
carmine rivet
welp, Dio cast it is i guess
north bronze
I have yet to even really use the spear, shield, or bow
hushed ledge
Hmm
north bronze
The other three are so good lol
hushed ledge
I'm not a fan of Dio cast on Hera
magic dagger
Zagreus Aspect Varatha is great with Blizzard Shot.
true, but exclusive access
hushed ledge
I think it's possibly actively worse than zag cast
magic dagger
then you can sell all of your boons and be rich
rare topaz
What definition of camp?
hushed ledge
Slow poke
carmine rivet
hoooly heck that is powerful. 4 dio casts at the same time is shredding these armored bows
hushed ledge
Just run away from enemies and sit in a corner if you're not pressured
rare topaz
Yeah
dry ember
It's a temporary structure used for shelter in remote areas
rare topaz
Spear can be fun for that though
Pffff
I only won my 4th aspect spear run though because the stars aligned in every way
north bronze
The Elysian armored shield guys are the primal aspids of this game, change my mind
rare topaz
Elysium is the worst. Can we please just remove it from the game? Thanks.
hushed ledge
4th aspect spear is high enough damage you don't need to camp out
dry ember
I have no idea what primal aspids are, but I think I agree lol
cunning urchin
Yeah, no idea either.
rare topaz
I would like there to only be Tartarus. Thanks.
hushed ledge
Shields are so annoying
cunning urchin
You're wrong.
north bronze
They're a really annoying enemy from the game Hollow Knight
rare topaz
Ah
dry ember
Oh wait I play that game, I should know xD
carmine rivet
flaming chariot linkers are terrifying, if not a threat with chain shot bow
cunning urchin
@north bronze 🔫 
Change your mind or else . . .
rare topaz
@hushed ledge True. But then again, I avoid 4th aspect spear like the plague
hushed ledge
GY is really strong
north bronze
Man, I'm still on the fence about Dusa
dry ember
Nyaa please don't booli
north bronze
Like, it's a nice story arc
cunning urchin
Dusa is great.
naive tusk
Uwu caharacter?
hushed ledge
Why do you despise GY?
north bronze
(/s btw)
magic dagger
careful lads, the mods are watching
rare topaz
dry ember
I love Dusa's voice
naive tusk
I mean, you guys should play nice even if we weren't
I pretend I don't see it
cunning urchin
I don't just play nice. I play gud.
magic dagger
I mean, you guys should play nice even if we weren't
what do you mean? you're always watching, aren't you?
exists...
magic dagger
Until Theseus' spear finds me through the gosh darn pillars
try dashing as he throws it
north bronze
Oh, for sure
dry ember
A wise man once said: https://discordapp.com/channels/456889434672201729/520688402958516254/520688527412035584
naive tusk
Dashing out of the way when you hear the 3rd-4th of the SFX he makes when a crosshair appears on you.
north bronze
That thing has got a heat-seeking infrared missile guidance system on it
cunning urchin
@dry ember I did that. What's next?
leaden hare
puts acron on my head
magic dagger
I love Dusa's voice
Yeah, it's surprisingly pleasant once you get over the slightly odd qualities
voiced by the same person as aphrodite if I recall correctly
dry ember
@cunning urchin You think you do, but you don't.
naive tusk
Failuer is unique~
north bronze
I am continuously flabbergasted by the voice acting in this game
Un-freakin'-believable
I'm like 30 hours in and have yet to hear any real repeated voice lines
I am in awe of how good it is
dry ember
Also how about getting your ego in check
magic dagger
I'm like 30 hours in and have yet to hear any real repeated voice lines
same, except almost 400 hours
cunning urchin
heat-seeking
That would be bad with my heat that high.
north bronze
@dry ember That for me?
naive tusk
It wasn't me who said it but glad I wasn't the only one feeling that lol
north bronze
Whew, ok xD
naive tusk
I know, doggo.
dry ember
haha you good mate
naive tusk
You are cool, Mr. Robo
north bronze
<3
cunning urchin
What do you mean? I'm the 👸🏽 of 🧤.
rare topaz
Am I cool?
untold vortex
naive tusk
Hey, if you like 🌈 then hell yeah~
rare topaz
:D
dry ember
You are cool, You are cool, You are cool
rare topaz
north bronze
Maybe not in the eyes of the moderation bot, I forgot a bit earlier that we don't like swears here
rare topaz
I AM 🌈
dry ember
Nyaa you are cool too if you clear 42 heat Crutchless
north bronze
I was trying to liken Poseidon's call too "CHOO CHOO ______" and the bot was like "settle down there bud"
naive tusk
You will get used to the bot, and the bot will love you in time
cunning urchin
Cool as in, your heat settings are really low.
magic dagger
update: I actually have 418 hours in, and I haven't seen enough repetition to dislike the voicelines
north bronze
Wowow
dry ember
A wise man once said: https://discordapp.com/channels/456889434672201729/520688402958516254/720879458294300712
naive tusk
Hey, be nice 
rare topaz
I haven't had a mishap with the bot yet.
naive tusk
Please, do try to take this into account: https://discordapp.com/channels/456889434672201729/520688402958516254/535605801583378452
carmine rivet
well my boon situation is still low but i did just get premium vintage so hey styx will be fun
rare topaz
Then again I did just join.
naive tusk
As well as rule #1
magic dagger
I met the profanity bot once...
dry ember
The bot false positive me yesterday
north bronze
I think the bot should DM you the "watch yo profanity" gif
rare topaz
H-hey, wouldn't it be cool if-if we h-had our own w-wave emoji?!
dry ember
Rage against the machine
cunning urchin
Stay on-topic, peoples.
magic dagger
The bot false positive me yesterday
yeah that's how I met him too
leaden hare
I finally rememberd what brings me here, I need some suggestions on using Guan Yu aspect
naive tusk
Aw
north bronze
I had my first beeg crit exalibur run today too >:D
rare topaz
@cunning urchin :(
dry ember
Deadly Flourish and Charged Skewer
carmine rivet
@leaden hare do the special always
cunning urchin
Divine Strike or Deadly Flourish or both.
naive tusk
@rare topaz it's ok to make side comments, don't mind her lol
leaden hare
Since I always have a bad time with spear :((
rare topaz
:D
magic dagger
I was hit by the same final boss wave attack 3 times, earlier today
is this expected behavior
untold vortex
as long as the topic of convo gets back on topic ^_^
barren otter
north bronze
nice
dry ember
Guide on how to use GY Spear:
Unbind Attack
Get Deadly Flourish
Get Charged Skewer
Special only
???
Profit
north bronze
lol, unbind attack
magic dagger
the same shockwave hit me 3 times
naive tusk
The doggo is not wrong
magic dagger
I mean, how does that even work?
north bronze
I don't know what happened to me today, I got my first companion and then all of a sudden decided to forget how to gift nectar and instead just accidentally summon the companion every time
rare topaz
Were you stepping opposite it's direction throughout?
cunning urchin
Probably multiple hitboxes or you dashed into the same hitbox multiple times? Don't think that's happened to me.
rare topaz
If you were moving opposite its trajectory, while it was slowed or something else happened, that probably explains it.
north bronze
The thing that always gets me is Demeter's vortex in trial of the gods
I'll just stand in it like a dummy for like 5 seconds before realizing what's going on
dry ember
OMG it's 1am already, what did you people do to me
magic dagger
also, he was pretty much spamming skulls for the entire fight. I couldn't keep up with it
north bronze
2 AM here bro, I'm with ya
rare topaz
9 AM here.
leaden hare
2pm
untold vortex
4pm here
magic dagger
let's all share timezones real quick
rare topaz
GMT +3 I think.
carmine rivet
PST, so it's 23:08 for meee
untold vortex
Australia, aka the country that doesn't exist with a population of entirely payed actors /s
rare topaz
XD
leaden hare
Asian gang vibing
north bronze
Telling jokes on the internet? What are you, crazy?
carmine rivet
also Than just wiping half the heroes' hp was godly, then i smacked Theseus hard with quadruple dio casts at 200 dmg a pop.
rare topaz
My mind doesn't process PST. I just think of it like someone saying "pssst"
magic dagger
this is the most #off-topic-discussion convo I've ever seen
north bronze
I love one-shotting the Hydra's final phase with calls
rare topaz
Oh God yes sorry I tend to derail things. I have a very chaotic aura.
carmine rivet
i try. thanks to everyone who was sending help my way earlier too, choosing dio room was great decision
rare topaz
I'm basically known on the Dead Cells server for ALWAYS making #general #offtopic
magic dagger
Oh God yes sorry I tend to derail things. I have a very chaotic aura.
@rare topaz "let's all share timezones real quick"
this was me
cunning urchin
I wish Artemis' Aid wasn't so weak.
magic dagger
Especially Artemis'
arti call is also my desktop background
rare topaz
cunning urchin
I just avoid it every time now.
rare topaz
Artemis is great.
magic dagger
arti is good if you can save up for the greater call
north bronze
Y'know what I would love
rare topaz
Hm?
magic dagger
so it's a boss ability
north bronze
Is instead of just leveling up aspects randomly of your weapons
You interact with Daedalus
Or even better, Hephastus
And they're the ones that help you upgrade your weapons
magic dagger
Who's Hephastus
@rare topaz god of the forge
rare topaz
Ah ty
magic dagger
he isn't in the game
north bronze
rare topaz
But he was mentioned wasn't he?
cunning urchin
Her Greater Call when Epic does 2,040 damage on average. That's really not a lot.
rare topaz
I vaguely remember that now.
Artemis's Aid is not weak. It deals so much damage.
I've had it WIPE THE FLOOR with bosses.
magic dagger
But he was mentioned wasn't he?
@rare topaz he is mentioned, but not by name
he is 100% irrelevant to the story
rare topaz
RIP
magic dagger
Artemis's Aid is not weak. It deals so much damage.
athena's call has better utility and dio's call has better damage
north bronze
I mean, it would make sense canonically if he were the one to make the infernal arms
He was the god who made the weapons for the other gods
livid comet
eto
north bronze
I think the current lore suggests that Chaos is behind some of them?
livid comet
Is chaos romanceable yet
north bronze
Timezones, then calls, then random stuff
livid comet
UTC+12
carmine rivet
I think the original Cyclopses (read: children of Gaia, brothers of the Titans) are credited as creating the Infernal Arms
untold vortex
ahh NZ Dagger?
north bronze
@carmine rivet, oh interesting
I'd still be a fan of Hephaestus or Daedalus helping you upgrade them
carmine rivet
in Greek mythology they are often credited for making at least Zeus' lightning bolts to fight the Titans with, so it's a sensible adaptation
dry ember
Central Time yay
Arte Call does need some love
Random stuff: I have a pink mechanical pencil I used for 2 years now.
north bronze
lol, congratulations on your spark notes contribution
carmine rivet
I do think it'd be cool if Daedalus showed up eventually, especially with how much he's "responsible for creating" in the Underworld. Though I'm also chill with him being an unseen character.
magic dagger
Arte Call does need some love
it's okay just use it once, take a screenshot, and set it as your desktop background
all the love she needs
north bronze
I hope we get to go up to mount olympus at some point
magic dagger
ew why would you go there?
north bronze
to chill with the homies
magic dagger
the olympian gods are irresponsible, arrogant chumps, for the most part
maybe go hunting with arti, but I would hate to hang out with all the others
cunning urchin
My biggest gripe with Artemis' Aid is that her regular call is particularly weak compared to other options.
north bronze
Could be fun
carmine rivet
meet some of those lovely lads and ladies Aphrodite mentions that one time
dry ember
I think it's the unreliability of the crit chance that makes it extra bad
I can't recall a time when I was excited picking up Arte Call
It's like a fine, I'll use it at a boss fight once then sell it at the pool
cunning urchin
204 damage on average with an Epic Call on only a single target. You might as well not call at all.
north bronze
aight well I'm outtie, have a good one y'all
cunning urchin
Take care!
carmine rivet
g'night!
rare topaz
dry ember
tbf, using average for Arte Call is a bit misleading
the power spike lies in the fact that you can one shot and quickly eliminate enemies, or accelerate a boss stage
however, that spike relies on crit chance which is ironically unreliable
cunning urchin
It's not misleading.
cunning urchin
Meanwhile Dionysus' Aid does 720 damage with 5 stacks guaranteed.
@livid comet Zagreus Aspect.
naive tusk
I'm late to the party but Artemis' Aid can nuke the final boss with Heart Rend 🏹 ❤️
livid comet
NANI
carmine rivet
dodge chance is so gooood
dry ember
Agreed Zagreus is the most reliable.
cunning urchin
Divine Strike + Hunter Dash.
livid comet
punch everything back?
cunning urchin
lol accurate.
livid comet
naive tusk
You can also try Curse of Agony + Divine Dash + Merciful End build. Add Greatest Reflex in the mix and you will have a great time.
carmine rivet
become the pummeling blur, lose track of your own character model
naive tusk
It's really good 👍
cunning urchin
Epic Artemis' Aid with Heart Rend is still only 2,250 average damage.