h1-builds-and-combat

[native ether]

Its great on general enemies but not really on bosses

[sudden dagger]

There was one fight where I wasn't doing any damage to Asterius, but I did have shackles, and it got me through his miniboss encounter. Took forever

[sterile portal]

Wriste mentioned that it might be useful to kill asterius quickly, so I've been testing it on and off when I get the chance

[sudden dagger]

How has it gone for you?

[weak moat]

mainly when asterius is spinning at you in elysium miniboss fight

probably some fat daamge

[sterile portal]

I assumed it would help on the boss fight instead of the minboss, hence my confusion as EM3 does destroy pillars

But I'll probably test it on miniboss if I get the chance this run

[weak moat]

my thoughts are generally 1) miniboss asterius and 2) melee fighting near the phoenix pillars

[sterile portal]

I also need to check if the arrows in elysium are affected, cause it seems like they might be

[native ether]

it destroys pillars but the pillars in the Theseus fight are special pillars that dont have rubble.

[weak moat]

yeah we don't care about those pillars

we mainly care about making mainland elysium faster

[native ether]

Shackle affects trap damage right? They should definitely be affected (the arrows)

Game counts those as traps, or at least it does for Heightened Security (grumbles)

[weak moat]

yeah arrows, egg timers, spear thingies, but those are kind of hard to control

[sudden dagger]

lol i never knew they were called egg timers 😄

[native ether]

easy to control when greatshields are dumb dumbs

they're technically called Phoenix Eggs

[weak moat]

I'm just calling them egg timers

for funsies

[sterile portal]

Does HS affect trap damage vs. enemies?

[weak moat]

nop

[native ether]

nope, just you

(and Hades pots count as trap dmg fyi)

[sterile portal]

Got it

[sudden dagger]

oh no. I'm never going to choose HS in that case

[native ether]

So Heightened Security + Hades Pots = immediately lost Death Defiance

or 200 damage

[sterile portal]

All I know about HS is that lava is scary again and I'm still learning how to deal 😆

I believe it's 150 pot damage

[native ether]

Are pots 30? swore they were 40 (probably used to be Hades has been changed a lot)

[sudden dagger]

I still remember my very, very first time making it to asphodel -- I went to get on the first barge, overshot, and died to the magma. Welcome to Asphodel!

[native ether]

oh it also affects the Styx Poison traps. wheeeee

[raw violet]

yeah, they do 150 with HS

[native ether]

I remember when Hades' big swing did like 70 damage

[raw violet]

i'm quite intimately familiar with them

[sudden dagger]

ouch that's brutal

[native ether]

When Hades first came out he got buffed cause people beat him too fast. :p

He's been nerfed a couple times since

also when Hades first came out we still had old pact

which allowed you to turn enemy damage up to 600%

hello yes dad doing 400 damage a hit

[raw violet]

HS was a lot stronger then too, wasnt it?

[native ether]

HS didnt exist on old pact. First version of new pact it had 2 levels and went up to 800%

[sudden dagger]

Hey I just had an idea. You know how people keep asking for boss variety? What if instead of real variety, you just got to (re)experience random versions of past boss incarnations

[raw violet]

old but not oldest pact

[native ether]

yeah things have changed a lot, pains of early access

(changed for the better)

[raw violet]

it sounds like past incarnations are in the past for a reason

[native ether]

for sure

[sudden dagger]

it wasn't a good idea, haha

[raw violet]

it was an idea though

i'll give you that

[sudden dagger]

I'm just imagining an easter egg where you go down a time portal, and you get to a version of Lernie that has a health pot back in it

for the nostalgia

maybe not exactly the same as before, but ways to get boss variations with nods to what came before

[dull dust]

is world splitter good..

[sterile portal]

World splitter is pretty great on most swords, but best on nemesis sword

Also, the one run I'm hoping for asterius miniboss, I get butterfly, game is literally unplayable

[cunning urchin]

@weak moat I've only done two runs with Talos—once with Tempest Flourish (awful) because I'd seen some people talk about it and once with Flood Shot into Blizzard Shot which looked like it had a lot of potential. I also had Tidal Dash in the Blizzard Shot run. The pull doesn't work on bosses, but the +40% Attack and Cast damage still applies.

You have to be careful about the pull, there are times where you definitely shouldn't use it. But there are also a lot of nice things you can do with it. Y can pull enemies: (1) into your Blizzard Shot, (2) into your Demeter Call (that's the one I used that run), (3) into traps, (4) from behind to single them out and get a couple hits in, (5) from across a gap to keep them stuck on the other side where you can hit them freely, (6) that run/jump away to save time, (7) away from magma or anything you can't reach.

[weak moat]

okay I have reason to play hades again

I've solved talos

[cunning urchin]

Just as I was typing all that lol. Interested to hear your findings, then.

[weak moat]

basically you can seamlessly cancel your pull

weave it just as seamlessly into your combo

[raw violet]

yeah, all fist specials can be canceled out into a dash or dash strike

not unlike sword

but more effective

[cunning urchin]

You mean dash to cancel the Upper after the pull? I did that a lot, yeah.

[raw violet]

since you rarely cancel the actual attack

sort of

on other fist aspect

[weak moat]

yeah

[raw violet]

you can dash to shorten the animation

[weak moat]

so it should work perfectly if the inputs are correct

[raw violet]

so you're not as vulnerable after an upper

that's mostly for standing upper

since dash uppers have shorter animations

[cunning urchin]

Worked really well with Tidal Dash because I could yeet enemies in my direction but still keep them a bit away with the dash when I wanted to.

[raw violet]

that's what i've been messing around with talos

[main osprey]

Also if you dash-cancel quickly you can pull multiple enemies close together, then hit them all with the upper

[raw violet]

to help maintain damage

[weak moat]

I like just pulling then dashing behind for epic backstab damage

[raw violet]

it might be a good way to supplement dps with any attack

[weak moat]

if I actually get good with the fists

It's totally doable at respectable heat

[cunning urchin]

I actually didn't use the Dash-Upper much at all with Talos. Would rather just dash-strike.

[weak moat]

by which I mean

[raw violet]

and could help solve some of the dps issues

[weak moat]

even higher hotter heat

not implying anything about 40/41 heat

[raw violet]

yeah, talos feels like it plays more like zag

[cunning urchin]

Yeah, I've been seriously considering Talos for high heat specifically. But I need more practice with it. 2 runs isn't much lol.

[weak moat]

yeah we just play it like zag

with more damage

[raw violet]

it's sort of midway between demeter and zag, actually

[weak moat]

can't remember if you use controller @cunning urchin but I rebound the special to the right trigger

so smooth

[raw violet]

cept you still don't even really have to think about your special much

[cunning urchin]

I use an Xbox One pad, yeah.

[raw violet]

that's not true, i take it back

[weak moat]

cuz the special on Y is super awkward

to jump to/from from the dash button

[cunning urchin]

@naive tusk I see you.

[raw violet]

i've gotten used to it after spending some time learning sword and cranking out speedruns with demeter

[cunning urchin]

Yeah, I'm pretty used to it after using Demeter Aspect so much.

[raw violet]

the timing is not super strict so you have time between dash and special

at least enough to attempt to not accidently waste a special charge

which i still do

[weak moat]

hmm. only thing is the window to cancel the grab -> special animation seems real tight

[raw violet]

oh, yeah, that is

[weak moat]

binding it to trigger increased playability by a billion percent

[main osprey]

I definitely swapped around the bindings for M&K as well

[raw violet]

oh yeah, the mnk default is not ideal

[weak moat]

probably real tight if you've got mouse buttons

[main osprey]

I actually barely use mine, though I've been meaning to. Mostly for reloading the rail

[raw violet]

special RMB is the only obvious answer

[main osprey]

Yup

[magic dagger]

special mb5

[weak moat]

I tried some M&K earlier to try to make spear better

God those 8 directions make me feel bad

[raw violet]

how'd that go? i had completely swapped to controller before i got around to spear

[main osprey]

For movement?

[weak moat]

yeah movement is f'd

at least for me

I know there are folks who are good at it

but for me the transition is super rough

[main osprey]

It's a bit tricky, especially dashing (which I've mentioned in feedback)

[raw violet]

yeah, entire reason i stopped playing mnk

[sterile portal]

Okay so I didn't have shattered shackle on, but using nemesis sword vs. EM3 Asterius I was able to get the rubble to hit him multiple times at once, include one time where two pieces hit him at once. Both his Ground Slam and his Whirlwind are best for forcing him to take rubble damage. Rubble does 177 damage to him. With max Shackle that turns into 1062

[raw violet]

Asphodel, is really the reason i stopped playing MnK

[cunning urchin]

You think it's tight? Canceling before Upper is pretty lenient.

[weak moat]

oh yeah? @sterile portal how'd the fight feel

feels tight

maybe I'm not used to it yet

[cunning urchin]

I play fighting games, so I'm used to tight windows, I suppose.

[weak moat]

but it's basically a free yoink + dmg boost so I'm going to practice

that would probably be why

[raw violet]

it's tighter than like a dash upper

[weak moat]

never played fighting games

[raw violet]

but it's still basically a rolling (~) input

[cunning urchin]

If you do it fast, it looks like your dash pulls the enemy.

[weak moat]

yeah you don't even see the pull

they just get a nice purple target on 'em

and you get to slap their booty

[raw violet]

i have a habit of always doing dash-attack-upper on demeter so I don't know if you have an opinion on that

but it feels like I end up wasting a fair number of special charges that way

[magic dagger]

dash-upper on demeter deals more damage than normal upper

[weak moat]

I have very little in terms of fist experience

[raw violet]

that was totally off topic

[weak moat]

so idk

[raw violet]

i was just thinking of rolling inputs

yes, but you can dash attack and dash upper in the same dash

[naive tusk]

Now that you guys are here, I will leave Peachy's weekly challenge while the wait for the next update continues: clear a 32 heat run with TD 2 + Harpy Feather Duster for the whole run as your keepsake Have fun if you decide to try that 🎊

[weak moat]

wait WHAT

you can dash attack and dash upper on the same dash

[raw violet]

that just sounds like do a 32 clear without a keepsake

[magic dagger]

that just sounds like do a 32 clear without a keepsake
how dare you, heretic 🔫

[sterile portal]

Fight felt pretty clean. The pillars regenerate incredibly quickly. You can lure him into both pillars in the timespan of one spin. His Ground Pound attack was easy to lure into pillars as you're already dodging away from him after 2 sweeps. If he ground pounds twice, which he does often, just go from standing next to him to standing next to a pillar, and that's a good chunk of damage

Will try to test more again next run

[raw violet]

@weak moat yes

[cunning urchin]

Oh yeah, you can cancel your Dash-Strike into Dash-Upper, yeah. I do that a lot with Demeter Aspect.

[weak moat]

we need a video on all this hidden tech

[main osprey]

@spare owl it's not recommended to edit a post in #hades-feedback , especially once several people have voted. That being said, there are several keepsakes worth using for Styx

[weak moat]

wait, so will it execute both the strike and the upper in the same dash?

or can you just switch it on the fly

[raw violet]

@cunning urchin i was trying to experiment if it was better or more efficient to spam dash-attack-upper or just build up special with attack and dash attacks faster and only upper when you have special

but i did not like the latter

@weak moat yeah

[weak moat]

wait yeah to what

[raw violet]

i finally set up my stream to test and basically save vods without eating up HD

[weak moat]

oh hot

[raw violet]

so I can boot it up to show on skelly real quick

[cunning urchin]

You'll get a Dash-Strike that goes immediately into a Dash-Upper.

So you get the hit from the Dash-Strike, too.

[raw violet]

it was actually what i did to test stream settings but I'm pretty sure i deleted them

[weak moat]

tuning in now

if only another fist user in this channel also had a stream

I wonder who that would be

[cunning urchin]

The last few times I tried to stream, my internet died within 5~30 minutes.

[main osprey]

I mean, I technically do. I haven't touched it in years though and it's not set up

:3

[cunning urchin]

So I haven't been streaming.

[weak moat]

need to get that whole thing SORTED

[cunning urchin]

You'd be disappointed. I don't have a mic on my streams.

[weak moat]

I don't care

just need that sick gameplay

[cunning urchin]

I suck, though.

[main osprey]

I prefer healthy gameplay, but maybe that's just me

[weak moat]

we all suck

[raw violet]

@weak moat did that look okay?

[weak moat]

but some of us suck less than others

and yeah, the stream looked pretty good

[raw violet]

okay, now that i'm basically done messing around in low heat and farming darkness i'll probably start doing some practice runs

[weak moat]

but yeah we need a wider variety of challenge runners

haelian has the bow, I've got arthur/hestia...resqtoaster is trying to play fists

but that's it

[raw violet]

i'll do some dying in Tartarus Talos runs

[weak moat]

gotta start unlocking that 101st percent of our brains

[raw violet]

resqtoaster already is doing my planned strat

[main osprey]

I'm working my way up with shield, albeit slowly lol

[cunning urchin]

I've been messing around with Malphon on 40+ a lot more.

[weak moat]

what, farming ME?

[raw violet]

haha, yeah

ME zag, may rng be with thee

[weak moat]

what heats you swimming in @cunning urchin still around 42/43?

I need to see some RAW fist action

not this ME high roll stuff

[raw violet]

i'm probably gonna steal mewmew's strat in her 41 run

[cunning urchin]

lol I've been doing a lot of RI4 attempts at 40 heat.

[raw violet]

it seems like the damage boost from Talos might help

ew

[weak moat]

ohh RI4

I've been meaning to see what that looks like

[raw violet]

that's actually probably harder than any other fist run

[weak moat]

could be pretty interesting

that could be a legitimate category

[cunning urchin]

Meg kills me a lot lol.

[raw violet]

might as well just pump it up

[weak moat]

highest RI4 heat win

[raw violet]

that would be interesting

[main osprey]

Or just highest heat without the mirror :P

[cunning urchin]

might as well just pump it up
I wouldn't advise it. You have 50 HP and 0 DDs. Not a lot of room for mistakes there.

And 1 Dash with Malphon is pretty tough.

[weak moat]

even a 20 heat RI4 win would be impressive

[raw violet]

are you opting for keeping the top few pacts down and just keeping everything else pumped up?

a maxed RI with EM3 and FO2 could be a very interesting run all on its own

basically 0 darkness category

[main osprey]

Oh, also @cunning urchin , I'm pretty sure the 300-obol poms give 325 obol if you don't have any valid boons. Forgot to mention that from my last NCB run

[cunning urchin]

No, it's 295 obols.

[main osprey]

Huh, maybe I had a +obol from Chaos I forgot about

[weak moat]

wait @raw violet were you firing the stream back up? or just playing

[raw violet]

i might in a little bit, i'm filling out taxes

lol

[weak moat]

lol

[cunning urchin]

@raw violet I've tried different heat settings. I like 0 AP and 0 BP, I think.

[weak moat]

oh @sterile portal how's it feel vs mobs, and/or how does the fight feel in terms of speed? could probably drag him between towers and kill him right quick right?

[cunning urchin]

The furthest I got was Lernie, I think.

[weak moat]

what heat were we at for RI4 runs?

[weak moat]

did you say 40?

damn

[cunning urchin]

I've also timed out in Tartarus in the Furies fight because I only had common boons lol.

[weak moat]

should run a seed

[cunning urchin]

Maybe, I kind of like going in blind and seeing where it takes me, though.

[weak moat]

I used to like that

but I have about 300 hrs in the game

so no time for that

[cunning urchin]

209 hours for me.

[weak moat]

and since I've been swapping heat records for the last couple months, even less time for that

[cunning urchin]

Maybe mine should count in a different category then since I'm going in blind.

[weak moat]

unfortunately, the only real difference is probably time

you'll take longer to get to the same place, so we might as well cut out a little of the RNG

[cunning urchin]

Not really. If you do seeded runs, I don't see why you would go in with a god keepsake.

[weak moat]

I generally do

[dry ember]

you can do a first boon seed run

[weak moat]

I guess I see it as "paying" for seeding

[dry ember]

it's not too out of the spirit of the game

[weak moat]

we don't map or anything

just know we'll start with a good boon to take on the ludicrous heat

[dry ember]

I mean I soft seed for most of my high heat run anyway

check first boon then swap weapon accordingly

[weak moat]

that's pretty common practice

[dry ember]

and it's one boon, so not like it's much of a crutch

[weak moat]

your "build" becomes basically one boon

[cunning urchin]

But if it's seeded, there's no rule that you have to carry the god keepsake. Might as well start with Cosmic Egg or something.

[weak moat]

that's kind of up to the discretion of the playe

player

[dry ember]

you can still carry god keepsake

you can seed the rarity and core first boon

not necessarily the god exactly

if you get what I mean

[weak moat]

I could theoretically spend 10 hours farming a naked epic boon of the god I want, but FFFFFFFF that

still want to play a video game

[dry ember]

you got some seed you can send my way? like an epic attack with AP2?

[weak moat]

I actually do lol

[dry ember]

can I DM you? not now but maybe later?

[weak moat]

could shoot it to you now if you want

but whatever works for you

just ding me

[dry ember]

sounds great actually

[errant stream]

Is Skelly's favor supposed to show up right after you give him 5 nectars? I can't give him anymore and I can't have any more conversations with him but the prophecy never showed up

[dry ember]

did he ask you to do some quest for him?

[errant stream]

I accidentally skipped through part of the last conversation I had with him but I don't think he said anything about that. Any it's been ages since I was able to talk to him/

[cunning urchin]

Check your list of minor prophecies.

[errant stream]

I did. It's not on there

[sterile portal]

@weak moat I didn't notice it much against mobs as I wasn't playing too much around it, but it did nab some free kills on Elysium warrior blobs, Elysium warriors themselves (would hit them and break their armor right as rubble followed up for a free kill). So for mobbing it might be decent but not spectacular unless you're playing something with controlled knockback like shield. The fight against miniBull was slow, but I was running a not-so-great nemesis attack boon without shackles. With shackles, the rubble hit him often enough to do at least 5-6k of his health without practice, which is pretty good afaik.

[weak moat]

I'll want to try it myself obviously

but this might be the ticket to squeezing a few extra seconds out of elysium

[sterile portal]

I'll need to get a miniBull fight with shackles, but I don't think this will be so much a speedrun strat as much as a higher heat skip?

[weak moat]

yeah not thinking about any speedruns or anything

mostly thinking about buying as much time as possible in elysium

[sterile portal]

Understandable

[cunning urchin]

Cloner + Linker Louts is some cheap kupo.

[weak moat]

00f

[cunning urchin]

Can barely even see the real ones because they all hide close to the walls.

And everything explodes.

[errant stream]

What is up with the fishing prophecy? Is it not supposed to count the fish you catch?

[stoic thicket]

The "get 50 fish and report to Poseidon" one?

[main osprey]

It doesn't display a running total, I don't think

[stoic thicket]

No, it doesn't count, it'll just tell you when it's done.

Which is after you've already reported in to Poseidon that is.

[errant stream]

oaky, i thought it was not working properly

Does he show up after you've caught 50 of them?

[mighty ermine]

got inspired by @cunning urchin's 41 fists clear and decided to do it too! will upload the run sometime later https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/654076105321480226/719772484458643526/20200608233334_1.jpg

[stoic thicket]

I think it's just after you caught 50 and run into Poseidon the next time.

[cunning urchin]

Nice one!

[mighty ermine]

thanks! it was... admittedly super messy, and i got a 4 sack in styx

but a clear is a clear

[cunning urchin]

I don't think there's a run that's not messy on 40+ lol.

[mighty ermine]

that's true lol

[errant stream]

Is there something that needs to happen before the favors can trigger?

[raw violet]

@weak moat pc crashed, looks like i might have to meddle with the settings a bit

[weak moat]

oh damn

that's not good

pcs aren't supposed to crash

[raw violet]

thanks, helpful as always

[weak moat]

im just sayin

it ain't working as intended

ur pc

[sterile portal]

Look at these people, sub 12 on all weapons, 32 + heat

[magic dagger]

410 hours in the game
I haven't cleared above 25 heat👍

[cunning urchin]

210 hours. You're almost twice as good as me.

[raw violet]

@weak moat that save is great though, i'll have to put a lot more time into it

[weak moat]

it's a real fun fight

reminds me of dark souls bosses

when it finally clicks and you do real well, feels good

[raw violet]

yeah, but even dark souls bosses have more lead time than Hades bosses

[weak moat]

lol yeah

but that's why you always move perpendicularly to them

[raw violet]

this is probably closer to DMC style bosses

[weak moat]

then you don't have to predict much of anything

[raw violet]

yeah, it's hard to know which way is perpendicular to Hades sometimes though

[weak moat]

yeah it gets to be kind of like a dance

[raw violet]

part of the learning

[weak moat]

def

took me a few hours to figure out that fight

so you're already pretty far ahead

your spin dodge timings seem real good

[raw violet]

i'm just too tunnel visioned on the spins

[cunning urchin]

Picking up from earlier, there's actually a pretty important difference between seeded runs and blind runs, now that I think about it: for blind runs, you want a keepsake that gives you more reliably something to work with.

[weak moat]

you'll usually see keepsakes in seeded runs too

although it depends on how we do the seeded runs

[cunning urchin]

That's not what I'm saying.

E.g., for seeded runs you can pick Blood Vial first and know you get Curse of Agony.

[magic dagger]

she's saying always go athena👍

[cunning urchin]

On a blind run, I'm not picking that because I don't care for his other boons. I'd rather pick something like the Owl Pendant that has multiple choices that I can make work.

[raw violet]

a blind run is just a seeded run, waiting to happen over the course of several

[weak moat]

although, keep in mind we're also thinking about AP2. getting any good boon isn't guaranteed, and unfortunately you need at least one good one in order to make it through elysium

which is unfortunate

but seeding sort of alleviates some of that RNG

[magic dagger]

dash, special, attack
~3/4 chance of a good athena boon

[cunning urchin]

I don't care for Divine Flourish.

[weak moat]

blind runs accept that RNG in stride but will take way longer, although you'll feel it less the fewer AP points you take obviously

[cunning urchin]

Yeah, I'm aiming for consistency in my blind runs.

[weak moat]

AP makes that consistency nearly impossible unfortunately

we can avoid it in low 40s, but once we hit mid/high 40s it's really rough to keep it at bay

part of why I'm hoping we get a good AP rework

seeding is a little less accessible for most players, and time consuming in any case

since it's not exactly a transparent system

if TD gave us an extra minute or so in elysium, consistent blind 40 runs MIGHT be sort of possible

[sterile portal]

Alright just did miniBull with rank 2 shattered shackle

1062 damage on rubble was chunking his health

[weak moat]

oh we're not even at our full power?

yeah it should be chunking him big

[sterile portal]

Yeah I haven't leveled shackle enough

[weak moat]

I literally just leveled it yesterday

[sterile portal]

But 3-5 rubbles + megaera cleaned him up quite quickly

[weak moat]

should be really nice

[cunning urchin]

How cute. Newbies who don't have all their keepsakes at Lv.3.

[weak moat]

I'm excited for shackles

[raw violet]

I made a save at EM3 TA to test Meg and I don't know if there's other RNG factors but she hits both without moving from your start

as we were told

[errant stream]

Is there an event that needs to happen before the favors can start to trigger?

[raw violet]

however, DC throws a huge wrench and there's no way to strip and call meg in time to hit both

or at least i haven't been successful in my limited attempts

[cunning urchin]

@errant stream probably just some dialogues you need to see or do more runs. That's like always the answer.

[weak moat]

so wait, just pressing the button will hit both reliably?

N = ??

[cunning urchin]

I don't know. I never worry about it and just keep doing runs and talking to people with a ! on their head.

[raw violet]

N = like 5

[weak moat]

hmm

[cunning urchin]

Plus gifting Nectar/Ambrosia, but I'm done with that now.

[mighty ermine]

i typically dash in immediately following the opening dialogue, hit them for a split second for DC2 and initiate the meg summon while continuing to hit them during that in case a DC heart made it through

didn't know it could hit both just from the starting position anyways

[weak moat]

can we confirm that the angle that meg hits at has to do with the direction zag is facing?

[errant stream]

@cunning urchin My main concern is Skelly cause It's been ages since I was able to last have a conversation with him and since I gave him the last nectar and the prophecy didn't trigger

[main osprey]

Can confirm, Wriste, to at least some degree

Not certain how much

[raw violet]

it might work if you dash in towards theseus and lure asterius in

[weak moat]

we need 100%

or very close to it

[main osprey]

Yup, but that's what I have right now :3

[raw violet]

the angle and Zag direction didn't feel consistent to me

[main osprey]

I can test more tomorrow, I'm getting ready for bed now

[weak moat]

so if from the start, you turn to the left, will the angle shift

[raw violet]

cause from the start, aiming at thesus or asterius, it's still angled

it's never perpendicular

[sterile portal]

Phew, 3 seconds left on TD2 in elysium

[cunning urchin]

But is it always the same angle?

[raw violet]

yeah

[sterile portal]

Would have been a lot easier if I had any attack boon at all on my nemesis sword

[raw violet]

for the 5 tries i did just standing in place

[mighty ermine]

i don't think i've ever had an angle on TA EM3 where it didn't hit both easily

[weak moat]

now we need to see how moving affects meg

these are important science

[raw violet]

which is why i say i don't know if there's a different RNG roll that happens before you enter a chamber like other stuff

i've had some where i dash in and meg targets asterius only

[mighty ermine]

and you dash right in front, one dash to stand between them?

[raw violet]

and i think that's cause i dash in on theseus and zag turns to asterius as a target

[mighty ermine]

i typically do that and haven't had meg miss anyone from that, but that's just my experience

[raw violet]

in between, let me try some where i dash outside of them

[cunning urchin]

now we need to see how moving affects meg
these are important science
There's no rule against pinging devs until they tell us.

[sterile portal]

I've been trying her each time either instantly no dash, or one dash between them

both cause her to make a diagonal line that hits both of them

[weak moat]

that's a good idea @cunning urchin you should start pinging them now

[raw violet]

use your mod connection powers

[cunning urchin]

You guys go ahead and do that while I clear this 46 Heat run real quick.

I'm in Tartarus and just got Epic Divine Strike. That's basically free, right?

[mighty ermine]

you've already won

[stoic thicket]

If you ask him nicely maybe Hades will just give up.

[mighty ermine]

in the (styx) bag

[weak moat]

basically free

there's literally no way to mess it up

[naive tusk]

The humility in this channel is 👌

[cunning urchin]

Humility is for commoners. I'm a queen. 👸🏽

[sterile portal]

Judging by past comments in this channel, 57 heat is basically free, so you should be fine

[weak moat]

I AM THE BEST GAMER

[mighty ermine]

when you're looking for a chill afternoon and do a 57 run real quick nbd

[cunning urchin]

I have AP2 but Persuasion, so at least there's no chance for Poseidon to come along and replace my Divine Strike lol.

[weak moat]

poseidon on attack with fists is pretty yikes

[cunning urchin]

It's actually not that bad. The pushback isn't too much of a problem.

DPS is low, though, without Rupture and stuff.

[naive tusk]

||Musings and more musings||

[weak moat]

if only I were watching this epic fist run, LIVE on live video

[naive tusk]

As Valeera would say, "I'm gone!" Poof

[cunning urchin]

@naive tusk ||||

You'd be looking at a pause screen lol.

[weak moat]

I'm assuming there's some epic gaming going on before/after the pause screen

[mighty ermine]

poseidon just tried to butt in on my 41 run earlier, so i said he could be a call for a while until i sold him for UC money

did not want to try and build a whole poseidon machine

[cunning urchin]

Well, I've paused once I saw Epic Divine Strike and figured maybe I should record this after all lol.

[weak moat]

if you're streaming all your runs you don't have to worry about recording

[cunning urchin]

But then you'd all be stealing my secret tactics and strategies.

[weak moat]

exactly

[cunning urchin]

People are already talking about trying Talos on 40+ after I've said I'm seriously considering it.

And I haven't even had a chance to practice with Talos yet.

[weak moat]

that's a good thing

need more ppl doing challenge runs

need some weapon aspect representation up in here

[magic dagger]

I heard that Hades aspect spear is secretly good🤫

[weak moat]

you're fired

[sterile portal]

Hades spear is amazing, easily did 57 heat with it kappa

[magic dagger]

I won't tell you where I heard it though

[cunning urchin]

I did a quick run earlier with Epic Flood Shot and Talos (the runthat lasted until Cloner + Linker Louts). DC2 is an issue for Flood Shot Talos. Need to get that Blizzard Shot asap.

I don't know about "secretly". I never thought Hades Aspect was bad lol.

[weak moat]

it's so ass

[cunning urchin]

+150% damage is no joke.

[weak moat]

the extra dmg is pretty awesome

[untold vortex]

[weak moat]

it justifies actually pressing the attack button

[magic dagger]

ever tried spinning in actual play?

[weak moat]

problem is that in order to press the attack button, you first need to spin on enemies

[magic dagger]

it's hard

[cunning urchin]

Yes, I have.

[mighty ermine]

mini spins really aren't that bad yall

[weak moat]

but in order for that to be practical you need quick spin

[cunning urchin]

Deadly Strike does some damage even without spin buff—and murders everything with the buff.

[weak moat]

now I am talking in 45+ heat

so maybe in 30s or whatever it's pretty good

[cunning urchin]

Divine Dash helps a lot with getting spins off, anyway.

[mighty ermine]

i'm just referring to the timing required to get them off for the buff on FO2, which i legitimately don't think is as bad as people say it is

[cunning urchin]

Yeah, I don't think it's that bad either.

[raw violet]

Whatever, my Talos runs were long before you said anything other than “Talos is bad”

[weak moat]

well hey

[turbid needle]

I don't play spear too much nowadays, but there definitely are applications for spins, especially when enemies have predicatble patterns

[weak moat]

you can prove me wrong

by beating 45+ heat with the hades spear

[errant stream]

Why is Divine Dash so much more superior to any other dash boon

[weak moat]

if you can do that I'll eat every word I said

[turbid needle]

Because utility > damage

for dashes

Unless you go Poseidon dash that does a billion damage compared to the others for some reason

[cunning urchin]

Didn't resqtoaster say on his stream that you're supposed to be the one clearing 45+ with Hades Aspect while he uses Malphon for that?

[weak moat]

never said I was going to

just said I was going to give it a real serious attempt

like, super duper serious

I messed with heat, I lowered heat, I changed opening boons, changed tactics, etc

at the end of the day I always felt like I was playing against the aspect rather than with it

[raw violet]

I saw some attempts.

...that’s about all I can say

[weak moat]

however

if there is a spear prodigy out there

who wants to take on the challenge with hades spear

then get me that delicious VoD

[cunning urchin]

@raw violet I never said Talos was bad. I said I can't see it working well but that I hadn't seriously looked into it.

[mighty ermine]

i'm kind of tempted honestly

[turbid needle]

If it was Achilles, I'd consider, but I ain't an Hades spear specialist LOL

[weak moat]

do achilles, idc

[cunning urchin]

Very sure I'd always added that I hadn't really looked into Talos.

[weak moat]

non-guan-yu spears are basically giant memes

although zag spear isn't too too bad

the special is actually usable

[turbid needle]

Zag spear is Guan-Yu lite

so yeah

[weak moat]

thats about right

achilles spear is kind of a meme spear

and hades relies on the spin

[turbid needle]

Achilles is jank

[weak moat]

it is really jank

I think it's real fun

[mighty ermine]

i know achilles can be fun for goofy cast antics but i just

don't like how it feels

[weak moat]

high heat viable?

probably not

the special comes out too slow

[turbid needle]

I mean my 32 heat first win was with it lmao

But higher than that, gotta plan

[weak moat]

keep in mind when I say high heat I mean 45ish

[turbid needle]

yeah

[weak moat]

all weapons are good enough for 32 heat I'd say

[mighty ermine]

yeah, doing all aspects at 32 is very doable

[weak moat]

but reaching the real high heats tells us what's really viable and what we just put up with because they're neat ideas

unfortunately achilles and hades spear fall into that category

because pressing the attack button feels pretty bad

[turbid needle]

Or really what's just the strongest there is when we push the game's difficulty to it's limits, even beyond intended measures

[sterile portal]

46 to 0, go away than

[mighty ermine]

robbed thanatos

or you get a boring title to overwrite it

who knows

[sterile portal]

good point

[mighty ermine]

victory title priority is weird and not great sometimes

[weak moat]

if hade spear also got spin attack speed

that would be dope

[turbid needle]

It'd be legit

[weak moat]

I think it'd actually be usable

[turbid needle]

I mean Guan-Yu already starts with Exploding Launcher soooo

[weak moat]

maybe even really powerful

yeah

guan yu is so busted

even after the nerf

[mighty ermine]

they even bothered to set its spin attack name apart by referring to it in almost all contexts as "punishing sweep" so you'd almost think it would behave a little differently or better aside from applying a debuff

[sterile portal]

Guan Yu is so beautiful

[weak moat]

it's real beefy

partly why I stay away from it

all about that arthur aspect

[turbid needle]

4th weapon aspects are just going to be busted, right ?

[weak moat]

hard to say

trying to imagine a shield aspect more busted than chaos shield

[turbid needle]

Hyper bull rush or something

[mighty ermine]

it's certainly what they seem to be going for with them, at least. deliberately more involved and different from the others

[weak moat]

I'm pretty down with that

[sterile portal]

I like that the 4th aspect feels unique

[turbid needle]

^

At 'least that

[sterile portal]

So far we have a claymore

and a rocket launching, life draining pole

[turbid needle]

Can't wait for rail to have C4s

[weak moat]

telling you, final rail aspect needss to be a chariot

so we can finally race our boy theseus

[sterile portal]

Rail could deploy a turret

[turbid needle]

[errant stream]

how does the Useless Trinket prophecy work? I've finished a few runs with the Pact but it didn't do anything

[dry ember]

How high did you go?

[weak moat]

imagine final shield aspect being a skateboard or something

imagine

tony hawking across tartarus

[dry ember]

If you reached 8/16/32, check the clothed figures near the entrance to the run

[cunning urchin]

Exagryph #4 will just be a flamethrower: Ripley Aspect.

[dry ember]

They are tucked in the corner so it might be rough to see.

[weak moat]

ohh, flamethrower would be real fun

[dry ember]

Cry in Spreadfire

[mighty ermine]

aspect of blackbeard, blunderbuss with innate spread fire : )

[errant stream]

aahh I see it

[cunning urchin]

You can check the figures even without reaching that high.

[weak moat]

holds 2 shells

BLAM BLAM

[errant stream]

I never thought that was even something to interact with lol, just some background objects

[cunning urchin]

I missed them until I was already at like 15 heat or something? lol

[weak moat]

well it'd be just one shot or something I guess

[dry ember]

they are fairly absolutely useless

just as you expect

[weak moat]

@dry ember did the seed work to your satisfaction

[dry ember]

yes sir.

[tepid trail]

when's the update coming though?

[dry ember]

im doing the peach challenge though

[turbid needle]

SoonTM

It's this month

[cunning urchin]

Feel free to upvote that one if you, too, never saw the prizes there. https://discordapp.com/channels/456889434672201729/525022184280948736/707815905572421683

[dry ember]

being locked to zeus attack is not good for nemesis sword lol

[weak moat]

""""""""""""""""""""""""""challenge"""""""""""""""""""""""

[errant stream]

This Skelly thing bothers me a lot... I don't understand why it's not triggering when it should.

[untold vortex]

during the month of june as stated in #announcements

[dry ember]

:">

I'm new, sorry

[tepid trail]

ah well just gotta wait

[turbid needle]

I wonder when the beta's gonna be announced

[dry ember]

all I accomplished were 6x32

[untold vortex]

soon™

[dry ember]

I shouldn't be talking sorry

[turbid needle]

Like I expect a week before the release

but still

[mighty ermine]

fox you know you can't voice your opinion until you have 6x57

[weak moat]

TRUE

[turbid needle]

lmao

[sterile portal]

Fox I'm about to add a note to your discord profile with just "Comments made of 90% 6x32"

[cunning urchin]

Bad idea to expect things to trigger sooner rather than later. Just go with it.

[dry ember]

lol

[weak moat]

us hades CHADS have no time for SUB 40 HEATERS

[mighty ermine]

REAL GAMERS

[weak moat]

epic gaming skillz

[dry ember]

i reach Asphodel on 52 heat with bow

does that count?

[sterile portal]

Too busy using shackle to be talking

[cunning urchin]

This Queen, too, has no time for commoners. 👸🏽

[dry ember]

Y'all please stop feeding her ego

[weak moat]

you can be a chad too if you want

[raw violet]

Tailesque with the best suggestion

[turbid needle]

Too busy playing other games Cough Monster Train Cough

[turbid arch]

Preposterous.

A true king is a servant to his people.

[dry ember]

Too busy running torchless Stygian in Darkest Dungeon

[weak moat]

a true king 1v1s the rival kings in black ops

[dry ember]

sorry

[raw violet]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/508224167498219521/719789998836285470/Hades_00032.png

everytime

1 single dash straight up

[weak moat]

interesting

we'll have to share this with haelian

[mighty ermine]

loving zag's confident stance there

[weak moat]

yeah

zag is a hair away from t-posing

[sterile portal]

Neat, does Theseus ever yeet himself out of the area?

[dry ember]

im looking more at the DC shield

[raw violet]

it needs to be tested across games in case there is a RNG factor

[mighty ermine]

proud of our boy

[dry ember]

and the meg about to pop

[weak moat]

see if you can do it on the other side

facing the same way

[raw violet]

i tested that too

[cunning urchin]

No, don't tell Haelian. Let us all clear 57 heat with this newfound knowledge. Then we'll tell him.

[weak moat]

still worked?

[raw violet]

2 dashes straight right places you same position but on asterius side

and does not work

sometimes you get the normal angle that hits both, sometimes is the angle that only hits asterius

[weak moat]

hmm

so then it doesn't seem the direction zag is facing affects the meg angle?

[raw violet]

@dry ember on fist, from that position, you can strip both DC shields from TA before meg hits

lemme capture the angles i was getting from the other side

[cunning urchin]

More evidence that Malphon is best.

[mighty ermine]

yeah, that's basically what i do with DC on

[dry ember]

Malphon is best
Highest heat cleared is 42

pick one

[turbid arch]

AAAAAAAAAAARGHH

[mighty ermine]

you have enough time to do it real quick and during the startup delay for the summon itself

[weak moat]

I'll have to get my own save and see how these positions work

[cunning urchin]

Who cleared 42?

[turbid arch]

Foxhope just reminded me that I could have had 46 with the fists yesterday

[dry ember]

Me, obviously

[cunning urchin]

You should actually do a high heat clear, so you don't need to make things up.

How about that.

[weak moat]

ROASTED LIVE

[cunning urchin]

Some of us don't need to make things up.

[weak moat]

dabs furiously

[dry ember]

Some of us don't need to make things up.
This Queen, too, has no time for commoners. 👸🏽

[raw violet]

this is asterius side: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/508224167498219521/719791767863558214/Hades_00034.png

[cunning urchin]

You're right. I should go back to doing high heat runs.

[raw violet]

that doesn't hit Theseus at all

[weak moat]

hmm

[cunning urchin]

Since I actually have a chance of clearing them.

[raw violet]

but it's inconsistent

[weak moat]

but he is facing directly right

[raw violet]

sometimes you get: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/508224167498219521/719791814084919306/Hades_00035.png

[weak moat]

it does appear the direction he's facing affects the angle

[lament coral]

shouldn't you dash between em to make Battie hit both?

[mighty ermine]

it's been pretty consistent for me when i do just dash once to get between them

[cunning urchin]

Looks perpendicular with a bit of homing on the nearest target, perhaps?

[sterile portal]

Oh also, just tried shackle in elysium again

[weak moat]

parallel* ?

[raw violet]

i had have one more where i dashes twice and walked to the pillar as a reference point

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/508224167498219521/719792257921712188/Hades_00033.png

[sterile portal]

no miniBull, but mobbing was a lot faster now that I knew how to use shackle

[weak moat]

that's real interesting news fire

damn I'm excited

this could be the key to more consistent elysiums

[raw violet]

i guess i could try forcing Zags face

[weak moat]

now I just need to record it

yeah change his direction

see what happens

[sterile portal]

I found it to work better on faster hitting weapons as you can group enemies around a pillar and just break it 2-3 times for tons of rubble and guaranteed hits

[weak moat]

perfect for fists

[mighty ermine]

can elysium traps pierce greatshields from the front? like the arrows or spears

i'm assuming rubble does

[weak moat]

rubble seems directionless

[raw violet]

regardless, i think left of theseus has been most consistent for me cause all you do is hold up, dash once and fire meg

[weak moat]

egg timers can be blocked. pretty sure arrows can too

interesting

further testing to confirm consistency will have to be done, but this is super promising

[mighty ermine]

i'd be more inclined to try shackle if the traps weren't so easily nullified by a wayward facing greatshield if they decide to dominate a room

[weak moat]

main focus would be to use the respawning phoenix statues

[mighty ermine]

for sure

[sterile portal]

Fists are genuinely best from what I could see

Rubble does iirc

Also fun little tidbit: Meg will spawn a horizontal line directly on top of zagreus, perpendicular to the direction he's facing, if you summon her when there are no enemies (or enemies are still spawning)

[weak moat]

so we do have control

we've had control all this time

[errant stream]

When did y'all start unlocking companions?

[weak moat]

after smashing thanatos

serious answer is I don't know, but I just kept talking to folks

[cunning urchin]

Yeah, I don't really remember either. Took a few clears, though.

[raw violet]

facing asterius, perpendicular: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/508224167498219521/719795140192895076/Hades_00036.png

[carmine rivet]

You unlock Chthonic Companions after giving Ambrosia to Meg, Than, Dusa, Skelly, or Sisyphus after completing their favor. The favor gets unlocked after you've maxed affinity from Nectar gifts and talked to them a few times.

[raw violet]

facing asterius, not perpendicular: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/508224167498219521/719795094278111232/Hades_00037.png

i tried a bunch of positions between and to the right of asterius and they're inconsistent

[weak moat]

hmm

[raw violet]

but the left of Theseus? every time

[weak moat]

we'll have to try it on different saves

just to make sure

but that's some good info right there

[errant stream]

@carmine rivet yeah I'm frustrated cause my Skelly is not triggering, I have him at max affinity and I can't talk to him anymore

[raw violet]

and perfect position to try and get 2 hits on both

[carmine rivet]

it can take awhile because when they actually unlock their favor isn't well-researched. I think Dusa's is the easiest to get because the favor is straight-forward.

[raw violet]

the other positions it's trickier cause of their positions relative to each other and you

I streamed a little bit of it if you wanna see for yourself

you can overshoot left of theseus, just fyi

it is exactly 1 dash length

[carmine rivet]

hmmm. I think you should be getting Skelly's Misc dialogue from talking to him.

[sterile portal]

Alright, science is fun but I'm heading off for the night

Have fun, everyone

[errant stream]

well the favor does not appear for me, It's not on the prophecy list and I haven't been able to have a conversation with him in a long time now. Everyone else progresses but he's like... paused

[raw violet]

goodnight

[weak moat]

nite

[errant stream]

there is only the one sentence one, never any new ones anymore

goodnight

[carmine rivet]

it might show up if you have Stygius' Zagreus Aspect at max? since that's a requirement for his favor.

[errant stream]

I do have it at max

and i did kill him with it

but nothing happened

[carmine rivet]

he has to ask you to do it

[errant stream]

yeah but he never did... even though he should have already

[carmine rivet]

idk what triggers him asking though. sounds like you have the prereqs though.

[weak moat]

how's the run(s) going @cunning urchin

[cunning urchin]

I have vanquished Alecto.

[weak moat]

👍🏽

[cunning urchin]

Hmm now what do I take into Asphodel.

[weak moat]

charon keepsake

[cunning urchin]

I only have my Epic Divine Strike and nothing else.

[weak moat]

ez

[cunning urchin]

Bone Hourglass?

[weak moat]

ye

or acorn

[cunning urchin]

I'm actually tempted to pick Acorn, yeah.

[weak moat]

depends on how confident you are in your hydra fight

[cunning urchin]

I need to get close to yellow heads to hit them.

Have 3x Bouldy and Stubborn Defiance.

Acorn it is.

[raw violet]

consider how you feel about the lava and lava traps too

actually it doesn't matter

[cunning urchin]

Rare Deadly Flourish sounds good. Wanna keep my rerolls for Hermes.

Hello Eurydice.

[main osprey]

@mighty ermine congrats on the run!

[cunning urchin]

Hello Epic Divine Strike.

[errant stream]

Pog

[cunning urchin]

Er.

Heroic* lol

[main osprey]

Lol

nj

[errant stream]

Is it possible that I screwed up something and I can't unlock Companions or activate the favors?

[main osprey]

I doubt it, but I guess it is possible?

[cunning urchin]

Omg Lady Athena just offered me Phalanx Shot a second time after rerolling, and all the crossed out options are what I would want.

Yesss. Divine Dash.

Survived the power couple.

Stubborn Defiance is pretty great so far.

I have to say, though, summoning Bouldy vs the MM power couple can be very confusing.

[carmine rivet]

lots of rock on the field there

[mighty ermine]

thanks @main osprey !

[errant stream]

could it be that I need to have all the keepsakes unlocked first?

[mighty ermine]

well, my first high heat hades aspect attempt tonight ended from TD vs TA lol https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/654076105321480226/719801794741534750/20200609013132_1.jpg

[errant stream]

Whatever, I'll worry about it tomorrow

goodnight all

[mighty ermine]

gnight!

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/654076105321480226/719801777104355328/20200609013407_1.jpg rip

[cunning urchin]

Lernie 360 no-scope head slammed me from across the room.

It was literally the edge of his AOE, too.

[main osprey]

Uhh do y'all see this
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/613575366623363082/719802559866339328/Screenshot_20200608-233753.png

Right in the middle of that?

[unkempt pagoda]

no

[mighty ermine]

that might be some weird residual effect of the bot forcing me to retry that second screen

since it didn't like me linking so fast

[main osprey]

But it doesn't show up for you?

[mighty ermine]

yeah it's not there for me

[main osprey]

Wack

[carmine rivet]

same here

[unkempt pagoda]

i hope the person from the end of '69 is well

[carmine rivet]

that's really unfortunate @cunning urchin

[cunning urchin]

Man, I'm really not a fan of Linker.

I can almost never not take damage from that.

@carmine rivet I'd just killed the last yellow head, too, there was just 1 green and 1 red left. So I would have cleared that fight pretty easily from there on.

[carmine rivet]

damn, yeah. Linker on the Hydra heads is rough as hell, especially with how quickly they can shift position

[cunning urchin]

No, not the Hydra. That was a new run lol.

[carmine rivet]

ah, gotcha.

but yeah linker is rough on most enemies if you aren't using bow/gun

[mighty ermine]

please don't give SGG ideas there

[carmine rivet]

imo it's the most difficult benefits package buff to deal with. most are barely noticeable

Benefits Package buffs on bosses would be interesting

[mighty ermine]

i just would not super enjoy a web of linked EM2 hydra heads

[carmine rivet]

maybe a fourth level of extreme measures

[mighty ermine]

lol

[hushed ledge]

EM4 would totally be a 3rd phase i'd guess

[carmine rivet]

linker on hydra heads would def be insanity

oh i am hoping for a 3rd phase on the Final boss from EM4. the music track sounds like it gets more intense twice so fingers crossed

[dry ember]

I got to Styx on 42

[cunning urchin]

Woops.

[raw violet]

@mighty ermine that run was too easy, you shoulda went higher in heat

[dry ember]

There is a very interesting interaction between Aphro Call and the Elysium Boos fight

[mighty ermine]

lol

[cunning urchin]

I preemptively ended my run suiciding on magma for Stubborn healing after clearing a chamber.

Except I'd already revived in the chamber.

[dry ember]

If you charm Theseus, he can 3 shot the cow

not sure if people noticed

but max HL charmed Theseus basically grief the cow

[cunning urchin]

EM3?

[dry ember]

I was on 45s timer when I enter the chamber

yes

it got out with like -10s

[cunning urchin]

I had a Lv.3 Heroic Divine Strike and rare Swift Attack lol.

[dry ember]

I had an epic lightning strike and divine dash

carried me all the way through elysium

until you guess it, bruiser snakestone

[cunning urchin]

Lady Athena gave me Epic Divine Strike 3 runs in a row now.

Wait no.

[dry ember]

Nyaa just take a seed, honestly

[cunning urchin]

One run inbetween was Epic Divine Dash.

[dry ember]

I bang my head against the wall last Saturday

With just one Epic Attack Boon I got through Asphodel and Elysium in 2 tries

[turbid arch]

Still hoping that my dream comes true and the devs announce the update for next week.

Please let it become reality.

[dry ember]

I lost 2 of my 3 DDs to bruiser enemies

My dream is that they outright remove that quirk and replace it with something like a temporary shield

Like the Athena trial

If they still want to keep the "tanky" perk

[turbid arch]

We already have enemies that spawn blue shields though

[cunning urchin]

They won't remove Bruiser. Get used to it.

[turbid arch]

I WILL NOT GIVE UP HOPE!

[dry ember]

Well a man can dream.

[turbid arch]

I mean, if someone were to make a suggestion in feedback outright asking to remove bruiser and 100 people would upvote it

they probably would.

Either that or they would buff it.

With SGG, it can go both ways.

[dry ember]

I'm not the only one who shares this sentiment though

Realistically just a nerf is good.

[cunning urchin]

Omg.

[turbid arch]

I stand by what I said before. Remove Bruiser, change BP to only one extra effect instead of two, 3 heat points for the single rank.

[cunning urchin]

TFW you see triple bombs in your face.

[dry ember]

Where else can we find heat though

[mighty ermine]

it just feels like an extra layer of super calisthenics program, mostly, so bruiser is kind of lame

[cunning urchin]

And you read DEFLECT.

My heart.

[turbid arch]

Well they could bring that one heat option from Hell Mode into the actual game by default for starters.

[dry ember]

Yeah I've been asking for that too

2 more though

[turbid arch]

1 more

BP is only 5 heat.

(And of course, that is assuming that we need to be at 57 again, which we don't)

[dry ember]

You mean BP1 up to 3 heat?

[turbid arch]

Yes

[dry ember]

And no BP2?

[turbid arch]

Exactly.

Also, do not forget that Hades will get his EM Fight

So that will be another 2 to 3 heat

[dry ember]

Fair enough

[cunning urchin]

Maybe 4 heat?

[dry ember]

Actually I can't wait for EM4

So I can take BP1

And not worry about the coin flip that is BP2

[turbid arch]

If you go BP 1

you still almost exclusively see Bruiser anyways.

[dry ember]

I've been running BP0 setting

[cunning urchin]

EM4: every attack is spin.

[dry ember]

Works okay

[turbid arch]

I go on record and say:

[dry ember]

I'm dreading the day where I have to take BP for the heat

[turbid arch]

The absolute unnecessary terror that is BP

made me understand how tame Calisthenics and Jury are in comparison

[cunning urchin]

EM4: skulls shoot skulls.

[dry ember]

Stop giving them ideas

[turbid arch]

EM4: Hades uses the remaining 5 Titanslaying weapons you left behind.

[dry ember]

EM4 Hades can now occasionally occur in Styx chambers

[cunning urchin]

To be fair, you're the one selecting BP2. You could simply not do that.

[turbid arch]

EM4: Hades summons the Fury Sisters, Asterius and Theseus during stage transitions

[carmine rivet]

every attack as a spin would be absolute murder for melee

[hushed ledge]

EM4 is gonna be some crazy 3rd phase

[turbid arch]

EM4 Hades summons Nyx who sends you back to your room for making a mess out of Tartarus.

[hushed ledge]

indestructible skulls

[carmine rivet]

EM4 adds cerberus to the fight

[turbid arch]

No, wait

[dry ember]

To be fair, you're the one selecting BP2. You could simply not do that.
Yes and no. I'm experimenting non BP setups. But saying "you don't have to pick BP and not do anything about Bruiser" is not exactly genuine.

[cunning urchin]

EM4: Hades kills you with your HP bar.

[turbid arch]

I have the true and truly devilish Idea!

[hushed ledge]

EM4: sticky keys

[turbid arch]

EM4 Hades has every Benefits Package Buff.

[cunning urchin]

I don't have as much of a problem with Bruiser as you do.

[dry ember]

Lol EM4 Hades just need to summon BP minions hard coded to the worst combination

[cunning urchin]

I think there are combos on some enemies that are worse than Bruiser.

[dry ember]

I tentatively disagree. But you can elaborate.

[cunning urchin]

Cloning Linking Pests are probably the worst Pests.

[carmine rivet]

clone-link is definitely the most devastating combo

[cunning urchin]

I'd rather fight Cloning Bruiser Pests or Linking Bruiser Pests.

[turbid arch]

See thats where I disagree

I think that Bruiser Pests in general are the worst

not only because they take forever

but the game also brings them in huge numbers

and because they are weird to attack because of how shifty their movement is

[dry ember]

Linking Clone actually gives me little trouble

[turbid arch]

I would rather deal with shadowdoppelganger laser pests instead

[dry ember]

I can't do it hitless

But if I take 20 laser damage to clear that room, I'm happy

And that's doable

[cunning urchin]

Cloners can take forever, too, when they hide behind walls, and you can't find the real one. Not very easy to see in Tartarus anyway.

[dry ember]

Also you complained about bruiser snakestone often enough. Not sure why you are taking a bit of the opposite stance today.

[cunning urchin]

Meanwhile the floor explodes everywhere and the whole room is lasers.

[dry ember]

Also one more Point

[turbid arch]

But that is just pesky Pest design in general that I have complained about forever

[dry ember]

clone link is one combo

[cunning urchin]

I'm not. I complained specifically about Bruiser Snakestones not Bruiser alone.

[turbid arch]

What about Bruiser Brimstones with additional Firepatches spawning in Asphodel?

[dry ember]

Neither clone nor link is by themselves particularly devastating with other combos

[turbid arch]

You have 5 brimstones hovering over magma pools or patches, being nearly invincible shooting lasersd

[dry ember]

Bruiser + virtually any other perk will make that room hell on earth

[turbid arch]

^

[dry ember]

That's another problem with bruiser

[cunning urchin]

What about Bruiser Brimstones with additional Firepatches spawning in Asphodel?
Yeah, that's a bad combo.

Burner is generally painful in Asphodel.

[dry ember]

I'm going to bed but I'm offering prayers to Greg the Almighty to deliver us from Bruisers.

Dear Greg in heaven San Francisco, please heed this pleading and delete the evil that is Bruiser from the game.

Bye now.

[cunning urchin]

I should make feedback to buff Bruiser to gatekeep yellow dogs from 40+ heat.

Oh wait nevermind.

You can't clear 40+ either way.

Good night!

[carmine rivet]

night!

[turbid arch]

One thing I noticed is that this chat has gotten fairly.....stale, for a lack of a better word.

It feels like only the same five people are chatting in here.

I do not know if talking about high heated runs and the pain that is BP scares people away or if people have just found better places to be.

[cunning urchin]

I really hope MM power couple gets some changes.

I wonder. There's a lot of 40+ talk here recently.

[turbid arch]

I feel like high heated runs have become a bit of an arms race recently.

And I do not know if that is healthy or not.

I blame the long patch cycle for that one, among other things.

But also certain youtubers for trying a little too hard to push the envelope.

[opal bay]

I am sure soonish enough when the update drops there will be more people around

[turbid arch]

Will the update drop soonish though?

[opal bay]

it should drop in June so it should be somewhat expected to come around this month

what time though is unclear.

[carmine rivet]

i mean it's this month so 1-2 weeks i'd guess

[cunning urchin]

Drift Dash is super sweet for dodging Lernie's projectile barrage.

[turbid arch]

If it ends up being the end of the month, this would be a patch cycle about twice as long as regular ones.

[opal bay]

For what we may know it may drop sooner than we think, but we can only really speculate when exactly.

[turbid arch]

Which is understandable because of Quarantine, but I still have a strong distaste for the lack of communication.

[opal bay]

the update really only took so long since this update was focusing on upgrading the game to be able to run on consoles and such

[carmine rivet]

i'm not really a fan of drift dash, but maybe i just haven't gotten used to it. i stopped playing just after hermes debuted and only got back into playing recently

[cunning urchin]

I should pick Drift Dash more in Asphodel.

[turbid arch]

Drift Dash is in that weird place for me where in theory, it should be good but in practise, I am not good at using it

and also, there is almost always a better option.

Also, for some reason, I end up getting it in Asphodel very often, which imo is the weirdest place to see it given how limited your options for movement are there.

And to the Wok-Person, I am aware of that. And only because I asked them in the Q&A section about it.

[cunning urchin]

The game is trolling me so hard right now.

2 rerolls, I get rare Divine Flourish.

So I figure okay I can adapt.

3 chambers late the game gives me Flying Upper.

[opal bay]

Ah alrighty.
And yeah I feel like Drift Dash isn't much of a good boon honestly. Yeah sure you get speed after dashing, but it does little I think to say if you just had Greater Haste for example, since you are limited by time how far you can go with it and after a time passes you can do a slight error with change of speed.

[cunning urchin]

Drift Dash works fine on Malphon.

If you hold Attack after the Dash, you stay in place.

Not like other weapons that seem to always overshoot.

TFW avoiding Thug damage by dashing into spikes.

[opal bay]

story of my dodging career

"to avoid damage I shall dodge into place where I should receive lesser damage"

[carmine rivet]

like recovery is so much easier to use as a Hermes active

(still not great at it, mind)

[opal bay]

heroic recovery+big HP pool will totally let you tank things a lot

[neon fiber]

Just don’t get hit 4head

[opal bay]

You wouldn't take damage if you stanned Athena.

[cunning urchin]

I don't really care for recovery.

[carmine rivet]

no i definitely think hermes' passives are much better than his actives, but i'd take recovery over drift if i had to.

personally i'm not good at casting so his other boons are bad for me too

[tepid trail]

mort,shady or battie?

[cunning urchin]

Bouldy.

That's Shady.

[opal bay]

depends really. But I go with Shady since it gives me more room for recovery

[cunning urchin]

Shady or Battie.

[opal bay]

(although coin and darkness blocking can get me out of recovery )

[tepid trail]

hmm okay

[cunning urchin]

That blocked my Crystal Beam vs the Hydra earlier.

Obol was on magma, too.

Not happy about that.

[carmine rivet]

i feel like chthonic vitality is kinda worthless next to dark regeneration

[turbid arch]

all of you talking about health and regeneration.

Meanwhile, I am looking at that juicy 100% healing reduction in terror.

Also, Nyaanperson, have I seen it correctly that the healing special for the fists doesn't even work when that pact is active?