it was a weird fight with lots of explosions
#h1-builds-and-combat
dry ember
I don't think Nyaa is reading this
Last time she said she had school stuff or something
tough grotto
That would effectively double the damage of cast builds and the game isn't ready for that
Girls don't exist wym
dry ember
I guess, this one is a menace
turbid arch
One cast = Seastorm Blizzard Shot, the other cast Scintillating Wine
astral phoenix
somber marlin
Okay, Shield of Zeus, JS1, Blood artifact. Let's do this!
And starting with a Chaos boon too! Oh, this should be good.
obtuse lagoon
you have to try this...
cast artemis favour at max when the hydra has his smashing with his head on the ground
beautiful visual
unkempt pagoda
i got a good laptop that can actually handle video games and y'all
this game has never looked and felt so nice 
tough grotto
Mine can't but it can handle Hades
edgy sparrow
One good thing about modern games, they can be as pretty or as blocky as you like
dry ember
Proceed to play 480p Hades with 10000fps
tough grotto
I play with 12 fps, it just works
edgy sparrow
Thank you Godd Howard
neon fiber
Godd Hadesward
smoky wolf
woop, just got a Perfect Clear title
I assume it's for finishing with all DDs and full health?
I used chaos aspect shield so it was practically cheating, but it's still nice
sand cape
i just got my first win with the sword, no heat, i wasnt expecting to win at all i was just trying to get duo boons for the profecy
smoky wolf
great job!
sword can be pretty tough tbh, i'm still kinda rubbish with it. struggle on anything over about 16 heat
sand cape
i barely made it, it was ares, aphrodite dionisous and atena
just dashing around and letting curse of longing do the work
smoky wolf
hey, whatever works
sand cape
kinda weird when you think you have the best build but dont make it but make it with some rubish
smoky wolf
you'll be able to get to the final boss more and more often now and after a little while you'll learn his tells and what to look out for and it'll keep getting easier to handle as a battle
neon fiber
i think perfect clear just requires you to end at full HP
smoky wolf
whatever method they have for generating the title seems pretty trippy. I've definitely finished on full HP before and not got that title
silver solstice
raw violet
@smoky wolf clear title conditions https://hades.gamepedia.com/Run_Clear_Messages
Some have questionable priority
smoky wolf
Yeah, also that list looks to be slightly out of date. They removed triathlete as a title a little while back.
raw violet
Maybe this is more updated https://www.reddit.com/r/HadesTheGame/comments/fi6hgy/all_special_victory_messages_updated_for_nighty/
sterile portal
Is it just me, or do you attack faster with fists if you dash after 3-4 attacks rather than the full 5 combo
magic dagger
It's because you can dash-strike slightly faster than you can just punch
sterile portal
Yeah but even doing 5 attacks then dash vs. 4 attacks then dash
you resume attacking faster with #2
native ether
because after the 5th hit there's a delay
so cancelling the 5th hit will likely remove that delay
It may be some overkill modification, and I understand that it isn't the case right now, but I was expecting Support Fire (additionnal Artemis arrow with each hit) to spawn with each copy of Chaos' Shield that hits an ennemy.
@low patio (I tend to explain why I downvote any feedback)
There's a number of things that don't work with the Chaos shield copies cause they'd be too powerful (like the Explosive Return hammer for instance) I assume Support Fire was one of the things that in testing proved too powerful to stack. Its kinda hard to clarify what does and doesn't work with the shield copies, and I would support an easier way to clarify that.
low patio
(Catra!!)
(Sorry first reaction hem hem)
Yup, I wouldn't have bet on Explosive return anyway, and I understand that Support Fire may be too powerful haha, I mainly had hope for it to work (and turn my Chaos shield into FREE ARROW DISTRIBUTION) and was slightly disappointed
native ether
There's a number of interactions with Aspects that aren't really clarified. Like Hestia Aspect doesn't work with a ton of things (to my personal annoyance, though I understand why)
low patio
Totally
native ether
there was a very brief time back when Spread Fire on the Rail created 5 short ranged shots, where Hestia worked on each of those shots.
It was so broken no one ran anything else for a week
low patio
Hahahaha
native ether
cause stacked with Hunter Dash and a Chaos Dash Boon it was like 5x250x1.5 dmg
low patio
I understand that overall exceptions may be unavoidable
But for most of them it would be more satisfying to know before trying
native ether
Overall exceptions are definitely unavoidable but I totally think clarification on boon text could help when dealing with those cases
sand cape
we need a lot more information in game about what things work with what
low patio
Ok your idea of a clarification pop-up text seems like the best solution * - *
sand cape
like on equip of the aspect a list of hammer upgrades (the once you at least seen) that wont be offer
and other interactions maybe?
low patio
Along with a simple, as @native ether suggests,
warning: the additional copies of the Chaos Shield will/won't be affected
when you choose a Special Boon, for instance.
native ether
the other option would be to disable things that cannot work with aspects
like disable Spread Fire when you have Hestia active
but I feel that's a little limiting
tough grotto
Hey guys what's the best build to clear heat levels with for the bounty rewards
dry ember
chaos shield with whatever
dry ember
Chaos Shield + one of Ares Zeus Dio Demeter
tough grotto
My chaos shield isn't upgraded oof
tough grotto
Also hades automatically uninstalled from steam and if I lost my save I'm gonna kms
Level 1 
neon fiber
the hell
edgy sparrow
Some games do save progress into the cloud?
peak iron
Sometimes I wish I could just pick whatever upgrade I got in the first room
There are times when I would like to just grab my katana, curse it, and scream about blood for the blood god zooming through rooms
sudden dagger
@tough grotto hope you have your save still!
sand cape
oh boy, cursed slash, furry slash and athena's aid: "oh im low health? how about no"
naive tusk
Isn't it called Flurry Slash? 
marble ridge
Yeah
peak iron
No, I'm pretty sure it's called Furry slash, you know, the upgrade that lets you follow up your dash with a pounce attack
With which you can nuzzle your enemies to death
sand cape
that one is deadly
marble ridge
tepid ridge
Finally, Cerberus gives boons
stray stump
So, I'm new here, hi. I finished Heat 10 with each weapon, Is that enough time in to have an opinion or is 6x32 expected?
peak iron
You, in fact, are allowed to have an opinion if you haven't even beaten Meg yet, so you are more than qualified
sand cape
early game opinions are as valuable as late game
the experience of both players is what makes the game good
peak iron
Alternatively, our opinions are all equally worthless, and so we should share them freely and without reservation as fellow garbage enthusiasts
main osprey
If 6x32 was expected, most of these people (myself included) would need to shut our yaps :P
stray stump
Kay, my last roguelike was Slay the Spire where the entire fourth act was built for very particular combo specs
tepid ridge
If this server was anywhere near that gatekeep-y I would bounced long ago lmao. I’m not 10-heat with all weapons but thankfully the Hades community is more about having fun and telling a story, not digital clout I imagine. Ooh sts is great but I haven’t been back to it in a while (but I’m getting off-topic).
hushed ledge
Nah you have to have won with release pre-buff sword to have an opinion
It's illegal otherwise
peak iron
Breaking The Law Plays Loudly
hushed ledge
Release sword was so bad and it's so nice to play it now
tepid ridge
I can’t believe how long it’s been since I used the sword. But I’ve been playing less recently, will drop back in for the next update/the beta before it because hype
tepid ridge
Oh no, the god gamers have arrived to flex! We were so foolish to show our faces here!
mighty ermine
you actually need 6x57 for permission to legally voice opinions on the game
so all of us are doing very illegal things
sand cape
im the only one that follow the fates whim? as in what even weapon glow purple for darkness bonus, thats what i be playing
proven robin
🎶 Aiyaiyaiyai~ 🎶
sand cape
havent play the shield in a while
peak iron
Ah, I see you are a man of culture as well
tepid ridge
The fates have long since decided that only ||exagryph||, the shield, and the occasional ||Malphon|| get hit with dark thirst for me
stray stump
(honestly I wasn't trying to flex. The StS community I fell in with expected people to be playing on Asc20 at all times)
peak iron
I recognize those words, but I do not know what they mean when lined up like that.
dry ember
StS = Slay the Spire
Asc20 = Ascension 20
But snowbound you good mate
Welcome to the fold
mighty ermine
yeah you're totally good, this community is receptive to all players regardless of their heat progress generally
dry ember
Nym, basically what he's saying is that you have to play Hades at 20+ heat always
Occasionally there are high heat conversations, but that's mainly for theorycrafting and encouragement
We all struggle lol
tepid ridge
Yes, regardless welcome! It probably helps that Hades isn’t finished/hasn’t been out for a super long time so the whole community around it isn’t only used to super high-level gameplay.
dry ember
Also is the Dark Thirst rotation really random?
peak iron
I figured it was some kind of talk of high difficulty.
dry ember
I wish that it's randomized by pool
mighty ermine
i think it is truly random in the sense that there's no bad luck protection to force it onto a weapon that hasn't had it in a long time
dry ember
As in a pool of 4 or 5 weapons are picked and sequence are randomized
Then repeat
That way you can preserve both weapon variety and randomness
sand cape
first time playing the final spear aspect, this is sooo different geez
mighty ermine
guan yu slaps, have fun
sterile portal
G Yeet spear is fantastic
sterile portal
Yeah it's great making popcorn out of enemies with it and Charged Skewer
dry ember
But his aspect carries me through most things bad
sand cape
guan yu is an asian myth figure
love the change from javelin toss to warhead on a stick
remind me of nidalee from LoL
sterile portal
little surprised we didn't see Fengxian
peak iron
Guan Yu is the guy from Dynasty Warriors with the giant glave who does big AoE
He's pretty good
Glaive*
main osprey
specifically, a Guan Dao! it's a super cool Chinese weapon
dry ember
Both 4th aspect so far has something to do with health
I bet there will be an aspect where you obsorb the enemy health as your max
Prepare for 1k max health
sterile portal
1k health fists
main osprey
start at 1 HP
main osprey
get an extra 1 for every hit
sterile portal
Aspect of Asterius
main osprey
nope
dry ember
Like a Sturdy Sheninja
main osprey
does OSP only apply if you're at full?
sterile portal
Sure, you'd be a sturdy sheninja with a ton of environmetal damage coming at you
peak iron
I want the final aspect of the adamant rail to be something like
The Aspect of Ahnold
And it's just a minigun
dry ember
Isn't Zag Bow kinda that already?
peak iron
It costs four hundred thousand obols to fire this weapon for Twelve Seconds.
dry ember
Lol
stray stump
I've been speculating about the missing aspects so much. I don't want to say anything since I imagine speculation isn't permitted
dry ember
Honestly Guns that use obols to fire
main osprey
speculation is totally fine!
peak iron
I would also be OK with it perhaps turning the adamant rail into a flamethrower
dry ember
I think most discussion are allowed as long as you are on the appropriate channel
sand cape
hmm talking of greed, what about the fist of midas? with an interaction to with obols
stray stump
Obviously it won't be, but Aspect of Steve Rogers on the shield would be great
peak iron
Every enemy you kill turns into a golden statue
sterile portal
snow, sounds like the hammer upgrade that lets your shield bounce more, or the chaos shield
peak iron
Rogers comes up a lot. I'd be happy if that was it. A really modern hero would be cool.
dry ember
We already have Dread Flight though
stray stump
And for the rail, Aspect of Che maybe?
dry ember
What would it be?
stray stump
Mechanically? No idea. Whatever the devs think is most interesting
proven robin
So far, though, they've been at least quasi-historical.
Like, we know Steve Rogers is entirely fictional.
dry ember
You don't know that
peak iron
Ahnold is real
proven robin
Yeah, but he's not exactly famous for guns in real life.
stray stump
Arthur is also entirely fiction unless you REALLY want to stretch some things
proven robin
Right, but he wasn't like...contemporary to the legends that surround him.
main osprey
Guan Yu is also a "larger than life" figure, as he became a god of war
stray stump
Le Morte D'Arthur was, what 17XX?
proven robin
Right, but I mean, Steve Rogers is completely contemporary to the time he was made.
stray stump
1485*, I was way off
But ostensiably about the 11th century
Aspect of Doom Guy on the rail maybe?
sterile portal
I can imagine that the shield we get might be Aspect of Perseus
aka guy who killed medusa
Give it the ability to reflect while blocking and make the bull rush into a sort of charged shot that breifly petrifies
Tadah, new weapon
stray stump
I figured they were going to go with other non-Greek characters for the secret aspects
sterile portal
Fair
stray stump
Not that I don't think Perseus is a good option
sterile portal
I just find it difficult to think of mythological shield users
tough grotto
@sudden dagger Oh yeah I kept my save, thank god, some games just do that from time to time idk why
And honestly cast builds really are op
sterile portal
Like secret sword and secret spear both make sense
sterile portal
Though again, Lu bu would be neat for spear
sterile portal
I meant in place of GY
main osprey
does splitting bolt even work with chain lightning?
main osprey
it doesn't seem to be doing very much...
ohh, I just reread it on the wiki
that's not clear in the slightest
main osprey
something beautiful, that's what
sand cape
ugh, aspect of zeus sound so cool but geez it is hard to make that special work
sterile portal
I could see it working with Zeus boons
or better yet, doom boon on special, and merciful end with athena attack
Rapid doom triggering
sterile portal
I'd recommend throwing it when you're next to an enemy, and having it return as it starts to go out of range
or have it return and dash away from it and try to make a working dash build
sand cape
i did find out that giving it athena deflect make it work almost as a deflect area
to stand on
hushed ledge
Zeus aspect is very much best thought of as a puppet character
Imo
Just constantly micro it
sterile portal
I'd say hunt for Zeus/Ares and the no knockback on attack
hushed ledge
You can use Zeus aspect to be killing two sets of enemies at once
Which is a really powerful ability
mighty ermine
aspect of zeus definitely has a much higher skill ceiling than say, aspect of chaos by comparison
i kind of want to practice it sometime so i can more effectively micro-manage the special
hushed ledge
I need to level Zeus, it's actually super level dependant imo
hushed ledge
It scales the same as chaos/Demeter in terms of boosts per level
formal basin
I was so close to my first 32 heat run, and ran out of time at hades. RNG wasn't on my side and I was doing no damage.
formal basin
TD?
mighty ermine
tight deadline
formal basin
I was running the pact that takes your choices away, so my build was...Artemis attack on Zag bow
That's the whole build
Everything else was incedental and not useful.
mighty ermine
yeah, i wouldn't recommend approval process for 32 heat, especially your first 32 clear
formal basin
I have more trouble with higher damage and other things, though. I'm just at the mercy of RNG
I didn't even get artemis attack until Elysium. Lucked into that one.
raw violet
a 48 heat run has officially been completed on video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4R6uP4MNYA
mighty ermine
i guess i just prefer being more at the mercy of my own play by being punished for getting hit and so on rather than punished for just turning on an option that says "you can't have that"
raw violet
the fact that you got to elysium without an attack boon at 32 is pretty solid
cunning urchin
48 heat with Hazard Bomb of all things.
formal basin
To be fair, I got chain shot on zag bow. It's really good for taking out groups.
Let's me shoot from behind cover with no repercussions.
raw violet
i'd say if you made it to elysium without an attack boon on bow, a run where you get it early will be a win
if i was a betting man
let's be real, the hestia special isn't doing a ton of the work anyway
cunning urchin
But it's funny anyway.
sterile portal
Wow you don't even have 32 heat spear
you're slacking fox
jokes aside, nice job on 32 sword
Unhealthy fixation is FAR stronger than it appears
dry ember
for sure. it saves me in styx
sterile portal
and makes the redacted fight a little uncomfortable
dry ember
yeah it's a toss up between spear and acorn for me
but recently I prefer acorn
mainly cause im too lazy to swap lol
magic dagger
distant memory is by far the superior keepsake for the final boss
main osprey
usually acorn, unless I have something like Divine Protection that combos really well with broken spear
dry ember
distant memory is by far the superior keepsake for the final boss
wrong
obviously dusa duster
smh
raw violet
hestia has way more range than i thought
weak moat
it has some fat range yeah
magic dagger
hestia is dope
although I kind of suck at rail regardless
you can hit enemies you can't even see
dry ember
yeah that's what i'm talking about with the SF interaction man
it's uncanny the range difference
weak moat
SF?
weak moat
ah ok
magic dagger
remember, long range attacks also hit at mid range, short range, and point-blank
dry ember
np 😄
sterile portal
I can imagine acorn to be better at higher heats when redacted just decimates your health each attack
magic dagger
just use empowered as the opener to your SF dash-strafing run
sterile portal
Oh it's the madman himself
magic dagger
even at lower heats it carried, back when I was learning to play
mighty ermine
yep
sterile portal
Makes sense, I might swap back to it soon myself
dry ember
with enough pratice you can probably do Hades hitless
magic dagger
free hits = win
dry ember
so acorn isnt needed
weak moat
am I a madman
dry ember
but aint nobody got time for that
weak moat
yeah acorn is a crutch basically
so is damage
so are dashes
it's all a crutch if you really think about it
dry ember
we all use crutches on this blessed day
mighty ermine
all weapons are bows if you really think about it
weak moat
crutchless run LUL
dry ember
agreed
weak moat
all weapons are bows of varying range, if you really think about it
dry ember
all weapons are bow
mighty ermine
malphon is shooting many tiny arrows
magic dagger
some are thicc, like charged shot
some are thiccer, even
weak moat
I don't think we can surpass the thiccness of charged shot
weak moat
I know a thing or two about excalibur
turbid needle
Charged Shot. 
weak moat
charged shot is definitely MEATIER
main osprey
bull shot on shield
magic dagger
true, it's meaty
but the thiccness award goes to excalibow, no contest
sterile portal
wriste, you're the madman for climbing up to 48 heat and higher
weak moat
after basically SOLVING the Hades fight, heats are looking juicy
raw violet
i'm at styx and if your hades fight is anything like your practice ones, this is a smooth hestia run
magic dagger
I mean, if you get there, you win, right?
sterile portal
Gotcha, thought it might have fell off somehow
weak moat
yeah basically @magic dagger well, sort of
it's still a challenge, but WAY more consistent if you understand the fight and the moveset
cursive wing
True shot, does it provide a 10% increase for it's damage for any damage done while the enemy has the markl
mark
weak moat
yeah, Firespirit, the next challenge is to figure out Arthur with 2 Forced Overtimes
that's the 101st percent of my brain I have to unlock
magic dagger
I'm not sure I can do anything without FO2 anymore
weak moat
it's definitely doable, I spent about a week working on it
raw violet
that's what he's saying
weak moat
we saw hades a few times
magic dagger
sped anything with FO2 is baad
sterile portal
True FO2 is brutal
raw violet
he did 46 with excalibur without FO2 so that'll land you solidly at 49?
weak moat
FO2 with BP2 can yield some straight up crazy rooms
dry ember
what's your opinion on Bruiser perk?
weak moat
in terms of?
raw violet
fishes, i'll save you from the magma
weak moat
every perk is good/bad vs various weapons for sure. so it depends
turbid needle
Yup.
weak moat
excalibur has no problem dealing with high health mobs
but it suffers against sped up mobs
magic dagger
which perk makes enemies hit harder?
dry ember
also I'm watching the 48 run rn
turbid needle
It's rough on enemies that are already big and tough like Chariots or Elite Greatshields, but on Pests or Numbskulls it's the worst.
dry ember
great stuff ❤️
raw violet
bruiser definitely feels far worse when using Malphon than really any other weapon
magic dagger
thx
weak moat
yeah, true @turbid needle it depends also on the unit that gets the benefit
raw violet
i agree with schpoon, the enemies that are designed to be mobile with low hp get some of the biggest benefit from bruiser
cept for flamewheels
weak moat
the speed on asphodel witches is terrifying
turbid needle
Worst (for Zag) Benefit to pair with Homing, go.
weak moat
for melee, probably bruiser
speed is close though
hard to say
it all depends on the aspect you're using/the enemy that gets it
dry ember
Hestia with DC seems annoying
raw violet
||hades into TD||, what a win
dry ember
i'm confused krasher
weak moat
that's why we don't take DC
raw violet
watching the 48 run
weak moat
yeah the TD end was spicy
raw violet
wait what?
weak moat
yeah I guess harsh language isn't good here
raw violet
maybe i typoed breakshift's name
weak moat
LUL
raw violet
he has 8 days worth of vods of him getting to hades at 49
sterile portal
Oh wriste btw, what are your thoughts on Excalibur's power level relative to other aspects? Like: overpowered, underpowered, at a good level and other weapons need to change, etc.?
raw violet
so i'm sure he felt that ending
magic dagger
ok, is that just what you listen to when you play Hades? @weak moat
weak moat
@sterile portal I'm not sure yet. I'd have to really work on each of the aspects before I can give a definitive answer. There's a lot of hidden power in a lot of aspects I'm sure we're not unlocking. That's part of what I want to do, using Arthur and now Hestia
and yeah @magic dagger the game gets a bit stressful so I just listen to that to relax a bit
keeps things chill
sterile portal
Got it. Initially I thought statswise excalibur was overtuned. The more I use it however, the more it feels appropriate (Althought then again I forget to use the special more than I'd like to admit).
magic dagger
nice
weak moat
excal is definitely powerful. But all the aspects seem to have their strengths
dry ember
in some sense it is overtuned without FO2
weak moat
yeah FO2 makes excal make a lot more sense
raw violet
i think the first time i unlocked excalibur i was already deep into FO2 and I had a real bad time
mighty ermine
yeah, my first impression with it was something like "huh, i don't like this at high heat that much" but, also had FO2 just on out of habit
sterile portal
yeah I unlocked it at very low heats, saw the +50 health, trap disable, projectile and enemy slow, and damage buff and was a little stunned
raw violet
i haven't touched it since but i'll have to go back now that i understand enemy patterns (hopefully) a little btter
magic dagger
quick what's your favorite drift dash boon
mine is epic
main osprey
4/6 on 5 heat, no doubt I'll be able to get the other two shortly
main osprey
I haven't been focusing on ramping up the heat much (mostly prophecies) but I'm getting better at it ^.^
weak moat
you just have to have the guts to drop FO2 for excal and find the heat elsewhere. Jury Summons is free with excal.
sand cape
nice
raw violet
i refuse
sand cape
btw, is poseidon, demeters duo just insane or my imagination?
raw violet
i'll learn low heat FO2 excal one day
dry ember
FO1
mighty ermine
blizzard shot is indeed actually good a lot of the time chincer
sand cape
it decimates you know who most of the time
mighty ermine
that 32 excal run after not using excal almost at all was with FO2 and it didn't feel too bad, except for well, elysium wasn't that fun
FO2 exalted longspears deserve no love
weak moat
it's mostly the bosses that makes FO2 spicy
raw violet
yeah, i think i lost to hades or thesius most of the time
everyone kept saying they were just facetanking everything
did not have that experience
weak moat
with aphrodite on attack, abyssal blood, and your special, you reduce damage by 70%
mighty ermine
huh, the champion pair actually was very easy on that run for me even with FO2 active
weak moat
you can definitely face-tank
raw violet
well, i face tanked, i just facetanked worse than the bosses
mighty ermine
dad did eat one DD, but still
raw violet
this was like run #30 or something, tbf
mighty ermine
and yeah nah, don't go in expecting to facetank even if you've got weak on something honestly
it's moreso if you do take a hit, it's not so bad
raw violet
yeah, might not be as bad as i remember now
but still, i just have to put time into learning it that i simply haven't
that's really all
sterile portal
Lernie fight would be so much spicier if the 6 heads at 33% also snapped their necks and chased after you
sterile portal
Oh god the lava with Heightened Security is not fun
weak moat
5x dmg lava feels great on my health bar
dry ember
or the 150 pot damage
weak moat
that one feels the very best
weak moat
thx bby
I was actually a little sad I got the second dash lol
I'd been practicing with one dash this whole time
the second dash was a piece of cake, exploding vase not withstanding
dry ember
the last swing of Hades near the top of the map
100% I would greed and take that hit
my heart dropped a beat there lol
like after the 150 pot
weak moat
that hit was f'd
planning on making a video breaking down hades moveset
a few of his moves in the second phase are a little opaque
but for the most part I think I've got it figured out
sterile portal
Once you figure out his fight I feel like it's a lot easier
especially as most of his moves are just "dash through this"
weak moat
the fight will be different for every weapon
but knowing the moves will make figuring out each weapon easier yeah
most of his moves are actually a combination of movement and dashing
for maximum reliability
most people forget movement
sterile portal
Fair, I tend to mostly refer to dashing as I assume extra movement is a given
weak moat
I guess I mean more extremely purposeful movement
you can kind of see if if you're looking for it in the fight
using his wind-up times to move perpendicular to him, for instance
some of his attacks you straight-up don't even need to dash to avoid
sterile portal
I honest to god struggle more with asterius than I do with redacted by this point
weak moat
haven't worked on asterius yet
regular asterius is super easy
EM asterius needs a little more timing
magic dagger
nice run, that was clean
sterile portal
I meant EM asterius my bad
weak moat
thanks @magic dagger
sterile portal
feel like his difficulty goes up while theseus become even more forgettable
weak moat
ah right, figured.
theseus exists basically to make the arena smaller, while asterius's attacks become bigger
I have my suspicions about how EM asterius works, but I need to do some testing
which is for a later time lol
sterile portal
Is it possible to melee asterius when he's spinning?
weak moat
done a TON of R&D with redacted but I'm tuckered out atm
I would be amazed if it were possible to melee him while he's spinning
sterile portal
Ah, fair point it's pretty late now
unkempt pagoda
if you have athena's call up lol
weak moat
^^^
sterile portal
I'd love if you could stand on him like you can with redacted beams
magic dagger
yes, if you get in and out while blocking or with lots of i-frames
you can shield charge in, dash attack, and get out without taking damage
weak moat
well, it's not so much the hour @sterile portal so much as I've spent the last few days learning the hades fight
dry ember
all I want is to have athena call available 24/7
sterile portal
Interesting
magic dagger
is that too much to ask?
yes
sterile portal
is that too much to ask?
yes
Get some rest Wriste, you have 57 to push towards still
weak moat
we're going to cap out on how high we can take the heat eventually
if they rework approval process it might be feasible
magic dagger
I did a jump of 12 heat once you'll be fine
sterile portal
At a certain point it just comes down to luck and time
weak moat
you're right 9 heat more isn't that much 
sterile portal
Exactly, no need to keep going up by one heat each time
dry ember
yeah, of course, child play
sterile portal
I'm expecting a 57 heat Zeus Shield run within the week
and pictures of Spiderman
weak moat
LUL
magic dagger
take 57 heat with all weapons, then haelian will never retake the heat title again
weak moat
I want to solve hades spear
but I'm not sure it's possible
we need other brave pioneers to step up
magic dagger
I'm on it
sort of
let me beat transistor and fix my save file first(I deleted my progress)
sterile portal
Hah I just did a run with hades spear myself
weak moat
spear and fists are both going to require some real mad lads
magic dagger
spin exposes enemies to greater damage from attack and special, right?
sterile portal
I think it could be strong but I think you need to either run a close combat special build, or an attack spam build
Yeah, 150% increased damage iirc
dry ember
I made it to Elysium boss fights with fists
with 5s left on the clock
on 45 heat
I chickened out and gave up
weak moat
oh damn
dry ember
to prevserve the seed
sterile portal
GY spear special should work with practice. Just don't get hit is all
weak moat
part of the mission IMO is to make use of aspects that aren't used/talked about too often
dry ember
Just don't get hit
Solution to everything Hades
weak moat
beating high heat isn't enough - gotta explore those other weaps
magic dagger
zag sword high heat when?
mighty ermine
just stop letting your health get to zero smh
sterile portal
Zag sword no boons high heat when?
stoic thicket
Solution to everything Hades
@dry ember Right up until TD say "nope".
weak moat
but not sure what to do with it
magic dagger
Right up until TD say "nope".
don't get hit by TD either
sterile portal
I think Zag sword dash distance is actually broken
dry ember
I'm on a rotation, check off topic and scroll up a bit 😄
mighty ermine
imagine if dodge chance could evade TD overtime damage ticks
sterile portal
I don't think the dash distance actually changes
magic dagger
ey
you chose FoxDope.
I'm honored
sterile portal
Hades Spear might work with explosive launcher
then again, i hate spear special without explosive launcher tbh
mighty ermine
can't believe you didn't go FoxPope when i made the greatest joke about it the other night
dry ember
I did this morning love
weak moat
the best way to play hades spear is not to play hades spear
sterile portal
Accurate
magic dagger
FoxPope could probably redeem me of my hugest mistake:
forgetting
weak moat
I'd want to utilize the spin though - otherwise might as well play zag spear
magic dagger
spin is actually good damage, just takes timing and a well-placed dash
mighty ermine
doing a mini with the dash movement isn't so hard to pull off, really
just for the buff uptime
dry ember
with enough routing and resetting, everything can be done
now someone else does it
cause I'm lazy
weak moat
maybe the key is to keep the spins small
mighty ermine
i do think it would be, for sure
quick and buffs all the same
er, debuffs. same thing
sterile portal
If the spins aren't being used for damage then yeah small spins for single target
dry ember
make hades spear a budget nemesis
mighty ermine
spins themselves as a main damage tool is more of a GY thing, which even then has better options for damage because of serrated edge and its incredible special
magic dagger
aphro, easy
mighty ermine
and absolutely not poseidon
weak moat
^
weak moat
the damage would be good, but I wonder if you'd want some utility
aphro or dem would both provide at least some of that
I wonder if athena on attack would make the spins more viable
or if the speed is too ass either way
sterile portal
Are you thinking of using attacks or specials for damage?
sterile portal
Yeah, I could only see special working with explosive launcher. Spin attack somthing and nuke it and everything around it
weak moat
could be a nice combo
but again, we're sort of looking at one reliable boon
obviously quick/big spin, exploding launcher are good, but it'd be tough to get them
sterile portal
True true
mighty ermine
athena could maybe do well honestly, yeah. decent scaling, potential freebie hits while poking debuffed enemies
sterile portal
then I'd say aphro > deme > athena
mighty ermine
maybe get exposed and try to deliberately play around with it
weak moat
more science for me to look forward to I guess
sterile portal
With short spins i'd assume athena won't actually deflect anything
weak moat
50 heat hades spear incoming?
raw violet
athena would be a good idea for safety
weak moat
we'd have to see how athena interacts with the spin size
raw violet
you think it wouldn't deflet all the way out?
weak moat
probably wouldn't deflect all the way out, but it may be better than we think
mighty ermine
hopefully the deflect lingers for a short moment after the animation is done similarly to how divine dash does it?
hushed ledge
Athena probably deflects enough to cover the fact that you're spinning I'd guess
weak moat
hitboxes, especially on projectiles, can be a little funny
yeah @hushed ledge that's the hope
won't know until we put it to the high heat test though
mighty ermine
preemptively timing the release of a deflect spin attack that also debuffs to not take any damage for heavily telegraphed attacks
truly big brain hades aspect moments
hushed ledge
To me at least the idea of Athena would be to just cover the inherent risks of spinning
weak moat
it could for sure
weak moat
negating incoming range/melee attacks would add major safety
looks like I have some homework to do
mighty ermine
i do think a high heat hades aspect run would mostly, ideally make use of mini spins anyways though, which are relatively safe barring some boss moves or exalted for example
i think it'd be fun to try, for sure
sterile portal
The larger spins can hit through walls on that note
weak moat
boss fights would be interesting
sterile portal
I see hydra being easy and asterius/theseus being annoying
weak moat
I can definitely see that
mighty ermine
the debuff time is thankfully pretty generous iirc. 8 or 10 seconds, right?
weak moat
10 secs yeah
magic dagger
beefy boi doesn't seem like the sort to take kindly to you charging your spin, does he?
sterile portal
Wait wouldnt the spin just destroy projectiles like most melee does?
magic dagger
if you spin, he spins harder
weak moat
could play baseball with theseus
mighty ermine
a mini wouldn't be hard to sneak in after a leap and before his basic swipes, even for EM3
weak moat
deflect reflects projectiles instead of destroying them, if it would have destroyed them @magic dagger
sterile portal
I'm assuming that was directed at me
sterile portal
But what I mean is, if the concern is projectiles, wouldn't they just be dealt with anyway? Or are we hoping for the deflect for damage?
weak moat
deflect deals with melee hits as well
and it adds some damage to your build, sort of, by deflecting stuff
which for certain enemies can eat them, like witches
sterile portal
Yeah, witches/splitters would be obliterated
magic dagger
deflect is a little extra damage, eliminates melee, and always seems like it reflects more projectiles than normal attacks eat
sterile portal
but if deflect is just for projection, i'd assume that aphrodite attack is better then
weak moat
deflect is also for incoming melee attacks
sterile portal
Oh wow nevermind then
mighty ermine
i would definitely use the word "generous" to describe how deflect works at the moment, in general. in terms of what it covers and when it works even when you might not expect it to lol
sterile portal
I thought it was projectiles only
weak moat
I agree @mighty ermine it's pretty juicy
cunning urchin
Divine Strike doesn't really mitigate the risk of Varatha's spin attack all that much. The long startup is the problem, and Deflect doesn't trigger until the attack is active. It works great on Guan Yu, but that's because the spin is active for so long, and you can get inside the spin and be protected.
weak moat
the general hope is that there's some kind of timing window/playstyle that would make the spin work
hushed ledge
Deflect is non-aoe/explosive attacks iirc
weak moat
if we can figure it out might turn out to be playable
magic dagger
we always knew hades would be harder than guan yu though
mighty ermine
i do think proper spacing and timing would go a long way with simply getting off mini spins to debuff
which would be the bulk of one's safety rather than deflect reliance
weak moat
would require a very unique playstyle
mighty ermine
which would just be a good thing to have on top
yeah, i think intimate knowledge of telegraphs and behavior would be one of the biggest factors for success for a high heat hades aspect run. i know that sounds silly because of course it is for any aspect at high heat
but to get those spins off intermittently, hades aspect especially
magic dagger
I will test everything.
weak moat
probably applies even more so to making any use of the spins
hushed ledge
You'd want to learn exactly how to space spins as well
magic dagger
hangover + punishing sweep: does it work?
weak moat
doesn't buff the damage, no
magic dagger
how about doom?
mighty ermine
aspect of satyr darts
weak moat
ok I have to sleep
we'll figure this out later lol
in the distant future
of this weekend
sterile portal
Gnight wriste
mighty ermine
soon... hades aspect will have its day
weak moat
nite
mighty ermine
nite
weak moat
let's hope
cunning urchin
Deadly Strike and Flourish will benefit the most from +150% damage.
Divine Dash will help a lot with landing Punishing Sweeps.
So ideally, Heartbreak Strike and Deadly Flourish or vice versa and Divine Dash.
- Heart Rend + Deadly Reversal
clear dome
athena call
fast wolf
To all those people who already have beaten the game and done their heat whatever runs...
Have any of you gone back and tried how far you can get on a new game with your very first escape attempt? Have any of you beaten Hades this way?
I just tried for the first time and at least made it several levels into Elysium.
kind cloud
yes, some have attemped that. it's one of the categories in speedrunning challenges.
(i don't know if someone beat the game in NG but odds are someone like haelian accomplished it.)
magic dagger
usually they do three runs. i dont think "first run" is a category
raw violet
the speedrun category almost universally technically not the very first run
since they farm darkness for a few runs to get DD and dashes before they actually do a run
what lysol said is the short answer
3-4 runs
fast wolf
i think first run would be a nice challenge. beating the boss without any upgrades in any time rather than beating him fast with the most crucial upgrades
raw violet
i think i've seen haelian attempt some first runs but not sure if anyone has actually completed
magic dagger
i think first run would be a nice challenge. beating the boss without any upgrades in any time rather than beating him fast with the most crucial upgrades
@fast wolf watch vorime's run, and also try it yourself, before you make any judgements tho
raw violet
no upgrade final boss is quite a challenge though
magic dagger
It's still pretty crazy
even with 1DD and 2 dashes
Honestly, I don't know if you can beat final boss with 1 dash and no FO
the spin2win is so hard to dodge, and your i-frames are worthless
raw violet
it's very doable
i just don't think many players have the practice to do Hades with 1 dash
magic dagger
no forced overtime with one dash is "very doable"
who are you
FO should honestly be negative heat
raw violet
everything is doable with practice
weak moat
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RelMIrAk-Ks @magic dagger
raw violet
i don't think hades is considered harder without FO
but thats just me
i thought you were going to bed?
magic dagger
wth have you seen how long his spin just sits there without FO?
fast wolf
so i was just curious if someone was mad enough to try and do it. wasn't trying to downplay any speedrunners feats. just saying seeing someone beat the game from a new save file without any upgrades and just the sword on the first escape would be awesome and super impressive.
raw violet
the spin sitting there =/= the hitbox is there
i'm in agreement, that it's a good challenge
for all i know someone's done it, but it would be very difficult i'd think
i will agree the spin hitbox is really tricky to dash through
but you are at least guaranteed athena dash
magic dagger
I just watched the hydra bash 4 times in a row in Vorime's Fresh% wr
kind cloud
Someone has beaten 48 heat? dafuq? amazing
@weak moatCongrats!
raw violet
"that's illegal"
magic dagger
I propose that theseus be required to run to his spear to retrieve it if you deflect his spear-recall
because you can't have your spear on the other side of the arena and in your hand too. Why should he be any different?
turbid arch
Did you just try to apply logical reasoning to my game about the greek underworld?
native ether
i don't think hades is considered harder without FO
I don't run Forced Overtime cause I feel it solely makes the boss fights much harder
I'd rather handle the double damage over the faster speed
so i was just curious if someone was mad enough to try and do it. wasn't trying to downplay any speedrunners feats. just saying seeing someone beat the game from a new save file without any upgrades and just the sword on the first escape would be awesome and super impressive.
I believe Haelian has done this. I know I've also done it, but I didn't record it :p
Its definitely doable. Practice by taking Ruthless Reflex to Hades to get the feel for 1 dash (as Hermes cannot spawn on the first run of a fresh save)
neither can Artemis Zeus Aphrodite or Demeter
nor can a Hammer
I beat it by relying on pom stacking and Dionysus
you will on your first save always be guaranteed a Divine Dash in your first room, so you take that as well
fervent spoke
@dry ember , @stoic thicket , @tough grotto and @cunning urchin thanks a lot for the tips, next run made the trick -amazing
naive tusk
...Did they really give you Poseidon tips?
fervent spoke
is it a easy / hard one? cannot compare it
naive tusk
I mean, I looove Uncle Poseidon but around here, he doesn't get much love 😂
fervent spoke
yeah, i tried it with Doom on Special before
main osprey
my first win was also with a Pos build, actually :3
naive tusk
I'm proud of both of you 😊
viral valve
when live only gives you level ups..... http://prntscr.com/su7nxk
wintry plume
She doesn't fool around with the divine in that strike
main osprey
wintry plume
Jesus
which weapon?
main osprey
zag shield
wintry plume
j e s u s
main osprey
nah, didn't end up making it. not enough damage or health
if I'd had chaos shield woulda won
main osprey
yup
probably 'cause I've been up for a while and I'm a bit sleepy, so slower reactions
the full build is in #h1-story-discussion , pretty recent
wintry plume
Yeah at night i also do worse runs, like the last one when i lost 2 dd to the hydra when i reached hades in the previous one
main osprey
I still got the prophecies I was going for tho, so it was worth it
wintry plume
also can i ask you what's the difference between rarities and levels? I still don't get it
viral valve
welp. time to wreste a minotaur down with only one boon xD
main osprey
some of the duos, yeah. I still have one left
so, rarities are base #'s, levels increase that
wintry plume
dash a lot and when he rushes make him slam against the pillars or wall
main osprey
like, let's take that divine flourish
a common divine flourish with no poms gives +60% damage
viral valve
im playing zeus shield, not nesecary xD
main osprey
level 5 gives a total of an extra +20% for that boon at that rarity
wintry plume
bull rush go brrr
viral valve
I didnt know you could slam hin into walls tho. I just always doged him until he ran uta breath
main osprey
if you position yourself right he'll just run around you in circles
wintry plume
ooh ok i got it thanks
So of course using a pom on a rare boon it's better than using it on a common boon
wintry plume
i can never do it, but yeah it seems you can make him slam into walls
sly sonnet
Get near a pillar and when he is about to hit you dodge through it
works like 80% of the time
main osprey
or stand on the other side of a pillar from him, he won't run around it usually
viral valve
I have the close evade skill anyway xD damage boooooost
wintry plume
i can with pillars tho, but there aren't any in the miniboss room
viral valve
no. srly. I do like 250 dmg to him per hit lol
wintry plume
you have the talent of 1 dash but if you dodge there's damage boost?
viral valve
I always hated the multidash so that one's a godsend for me :3
wintry plume
w
what
main osprey
0.o
I can understand preferring the damage boost, but actually disliking more mobility? this I gotta hear :3
viral valve
ye. I like consistent cooldowns between dashes xD
main osprey
huh
wintry plume
w-what do you mean you- WHAT
main osprey
that's an interesting way of looking at it
viral valve
if there was a skill that made the doges themselfes faster. maybeee but having something that I can use to make consistenent kiting patterns is more useful for me
turbid arch
That picture just shows how unfavorable stacking poms for some boons is.
wintry plume
but but the furies' circles? The lava? huh???
main osprey
which picture? mine or fast's?
viral valve
nice. managed to not get hit a single time lol
turbid arch
I think an epic aphro special would already be around 150% extra damage. He got it on heroic and +8 levels in there, merely doubling the damage with all that investment.
wintry plume
give me your reflexes lol
main osprey
min heroic aphro flourish is 184%
wintry plume
poms get weaker if you use them on the same boon
main osprey
like I said, diminishing returns
viral valve
told ya. kiting the attack pattern lol. doesnt work against every boss tho. hydra usualy rips me to shreds with bad rng
wintry plume
his second phase bullets are hard to dodge sometimes even with two dashes, i always get hit by one or two
viral valve
I mean. I AM a shield user so I CAN just bullrush if I dont feel like I can doge it xD
fervent spoke
What are the better Modifiers and Gods for Twin Fists /Talos? Going until Hydra like a charm but after it gets ugly
main osprey
anything that stacks for attack, anything high damage for special
or full Artemis
you can get a lot of support fire procs really fast
maybe zeus attack, artemis special and dash
wintry plume
use Dio's attack then wait
viral valve
Im honstly more scared of the purring charitots than some of the bosses....
sly sonnet
I go usually athena attack zeus special or demeter attack artemis special
main osprey
mood gamer
sly sonnet
Dash either athena again or artemis
Or maybe even aphrodite dash for the privilaged status
main osprey
those chariots have nearly caused the end of a run more times that the hydra has actually killed me
wintry plume
it's either kill them with cast or run for your life
wintry plume
or with a long range weapon
sly sonnet
The only thing I consistently have problems with is the shield and poison enemies
viral valve
I mean. I like em. but they scare me.
sly sonnet
You can kill them just like you evade the minotaur
dash into a wall and most of the time they just die
through it that is
viral valve
since I play shield like 90% of my runs I usualy just block em xD
main osprey
so I just discovered something fun
you can take Rare Crop even if you don't have any boons it can cultivate
wintry plume
y tho
do you save it for later
main osprey
Rare Crop?
wintry plume
ahahah... ah... ah. Ah. ...
good luck
main osprey
no lol, I'm doing a challenge where I don't take any of the 5 main boons, if I do get one I have to sell it ASAP
wintry plume
uh good luck!
main osprey
thanks ^.^
out of tartarus, over 200 hp with out picking up a centaur heart. looking good
viral valve
oh look. chapingons fight. shieldblock go brrrr
btw is theire like a conditon to encountering sisyphus? I havent seen him for the last like 20 runs
main osprey
it's pretty random, I've had similar no-sisy streaks
viral valve
woo. going for the gold investror thing paid off. just barle have enough to by the diamond xD
main osprey
heyy!
heroic greater evasion!
y'know
normal zagreus really isn't that slow
after spending 4 encounters at -48% movespeed, he's pretty speedy actually
lmao
i immediately get epic greater haste
alright, made it through asphodel, still no damaging boons other than a hammer upgrade
viral valve
cause of death: falling turtoise. some of these shades are hilarious xD
main osprey
yup
also, I'm about to fight theseus
I ended up stuck with two damaging boons (frost flourish and trippy shot) but I can just not cast, and it doesn't boost my special that much
cunning urchin
Frost Strike and Frost Flourish shine once you get tier 2 and 3 boons from her.
Late bloomers. 
main osprey
I'm trying to win without getting any of the 5 main boons
and made it
this is gonna be so bad lmao
naive tusk
Why
main osprey
y'know what
naive tusk
That's my whole reaction and feelings summed up in 1 word.
main osprey
I would've been able to do it too
but the blasted sucker spammed skulls on me
I can barely kill the skulls quickly enough
I'm about to die
but if it wasn't for that
I might've been able to actually do it
naive tusk
Just dash through the waves and keep punching
untold vortex
I'm now imagining the "just keep swimming" thing dory does in finding nemo instead "just keep punching"
main osprey
I mean, I took out a solid quarter of his health with basically no damage ups
if I was more awake, maybe
still, was a fun challenge
easily made it through styx
elysium was a bit hard, asphodel was actually harder but that's because I constantly had chaos boons making it harder
half the time I couldn't even cast while I was in asphodel
definitely gonna do this when I'm more awake, and probably with a different aspect
either talos gloves, GY or Zag spear, chiron bow, or chaos shield
demeter gloves wasn't a good pick lol
hushed ledge
Yeah without special boosts Demeter gloves don't really have the burst lol
viral valve
wich's wrath would you rather encur, poseidon or ares? / can you block one of their aoes?
kindred bolt
dont mess with aphrodite or athena, the rest don't matter much
aoe's that can be dodged
viral valve
dunno dyonisus also always wrecked me pretty good xD
kindred bolt
in comparison to a block all your attacks and reflect them or a homing projectile that stuns you everytime it hits you, its nothing
viral valve
alright, nit gonna make athena angry then xD
hushed ledge
Yeah Athena and Aphro are terrifying, dio is pretty scary as well
kindred bolt
aphro is just the one i don't even look at, if shes there i pick her instantly, no need to think
just click her and save 50% of my hp
viral valve
okay, ares was kinda cute
kindred bolt
ya its just aoe that moves, its manageable
viral valve
expected something more violent from the god of war
STILL down to 7 hp tho, lol
shesh. battle rage + fiery presence, trash enemys are gonna melt
or not. got wrecked by hydra xD rip
hushed ledge
F
tepid dome
hey, how do I access the menu to upgrade weapons. I have like 5 titan blood, but don't know how to use it
viral valve
those bounches always get me xD
just interact with the weapon stand of your current wep
tepid dome
yeah i'm not getting any options to do so
cunning urchin
@main osprey I'd recommend Zag Aspect over Talos Aspect for a no-core-boons run with Malphon. Attack speed and Dodge will be nice.
tepid dome
also skelly doesnt spawn everytime I enter the room, think its bugged?
main osprey
Also, if anyone else beats the game without any damaging boons (if you pick any up, you have to sell them ASAP, and if you mess up and can't sell them before the final boss, you can't use that ability), please ping me!
Hammers, Hermes, and Chaos boons all allowed, as are any defensive boons (no, you can't take Athena boons and call it defensive)
And I'll try that tomorrow, Nyaa. It's already 3 am and I need sleeeeep lol
cunning urchin
I've yet to figure out a workable strategy with Talos. Right now it just seems like a gimmick without any meaningful application.
cunning urchin
I'm talking high heat.
tough grotto
Why u gotta do Talos like that
main osprey
I'm not talking high heat || yet ||
tough grotto
laughs in heat 1
cunning urchin
The pull is practically suicide on anything where it would matter.
main osprey
Aight. Anyway, night, and like I said feel free to ping if anyone does complete that run, any heat
cunning urchin
If they don't have armor, you can just stunlock them. If they have armor, pulling them in is gonna hurt you a lot.
Good night!
tough grotto
Gn
neon fiber
but suicide is fun nyaa
tough grotto
Indeed
viral valve
neat. might be the best start I had so far. http://prntscr.com/suazu3
tough grotto
Aspect of zeus is meh, should've gone with chaos
untold vortex
each to their own Ayer ^_^
viral valve
nah. I realy like zeus aspect^^ realy enjoy the micromanaging aspect of the saucer shield^^
untold vortex
seems like a very strong start, though i don't play shield so I don't actually know 😅