I think I did get him on my first try on the day they released the Big Bad Update though. And he still almost gave me a run for my money. It was intense. And the music send shivers down my spine.
#h1-builds-and-combat
turbid arch
viscid vale
when you started, Elysium was the last biome ? What was the end message like ? 😮
neon fiber
There was a time where the hydra was the final boss
I think there were messages of something along the lines of Hades cheating zag out of his victories
turbid arch
They had a couple of end messages, all of them being silly.
Falling over into a pit of spikes, running into a wall, deadly bugs, deadly mushrooms, getting ran over by a chariot, catching a cold
I think there was also one related to vermin, which in a way might have been a soft spoiler for Styx.
It needs to be said that Theseus and Asterius were much harder than they are now too.
fast wolf
Oh? How were they nerfed? Attack damage or HP? Different patterns?
turbid arch
I need to think because it has been a hot while since then. They definitively nerfed the HP, that is for sure. I think that Asterius also had a lot more invincibility thresholds than he has now. Damage wise, I think there have been some nerfs as well, but I do not quite remember how big or small they were.
In terms of patterns, I don't think a lot has changed. There was a time where Asterius was seriously OP because the tracking on his overhead smash was seriously problematic, but that came way after that if memory serves and, luckily, did not last.
viscid vale
i like the silly messages. I wish I got more. Most of the time I get "the story shall not be told" or sth like that.
they are funny x)
i got the deadly spears 2 or 3 times
never got the tiny beetle
smoky wolf
I like the one about how we all know there's no cure for a common cold
turbid arch
Yeah, that one I have seen a few times.
I don't know if the beetle can show up. I remember having seen it a few times in the past but I have no clear memory of recent opportunities.
Oh yeah, there is also one where Zagreus slips up on a banana peel. The narrator discribes it as a tropical fruit of some sort. Took me a while to understand the cartoony nature of that dead.
There is also one where Zagreus dies because he steps on a farming tool that thusly slams his head in.
vivid pagoda
yeah the farming implement is my favorite
turbid arch
I am CONVINCED that that death is a spoiler because I am sure that he actually will end up on a farm towards the end of the story.
wide plover
there will be more acts in the future?
turbid arch
As far as we know, the next update will bring the conclusion to the story.
I do not know what that means in terms of gameplay-progression, if there will be yet another biome after the Hades fight.
viscid vale
😭
turbid arch
They also hinted at the Extreme Measures finally giving Hades an empowered version. Howl in terror
wide plover
new biome makes sense, since hades says something like "nobody can escape, you think I didn't try?" So around the entrance there must be something that he doesn't control and can't go through
gaunt tundra
i think a new biome wouldn't make sense, cause you already escaped hell
but i would love to have some more
what this game lacks is a bit more of variation in biomes
wide plover
even if new location isn't technically hell, it still sits between it and the rest of the world, killing anything that goes in
though it makes perfect narrative sense for hades to be the final boss, it doesn't have to be that way
gaunt tundra
ain't it literally the earth?
it validates the prophecy of bringing excalibur and guan yu outside so it seems it is the outside
wide plover
yes, literally it's part of the normal world. But really, if it's some super deadly location nobody comes out alive from, it may as well be called hell's gates or something
smoky wolf
They've said before they aren't planning to add new biomes in terms of battling through additional areas
But I guess that's not to say there won't be some amount of exploring / interaction on the surface as part of the ending.
turbid arch
I have a token theory where Zagreus actually ends up finding Persephone and she's like "What are you doing here, you're not supposed to be here, the gods will find out? Sorry, sonny, but you have to die now." and then the true final boss battle starts.
It probably won't happen, but I think it would be hilarious.
In a tragic way.
wide plover
hopefully a better reason than "gods will find out", what with them actively helping him
turbid arch
I don't have a high opinion on the persephone in this game.
If she decided to go full scumbag on Zagreus, I would not be surprised.
To me the big thing that nobody talks about that always drives me up the tree is the fact that in her letter to Hades, she did not even mention Zagreus in any way, shape or form.
She mentions Cerberus
wide plover
scumbag is fine, just don't like this specific justification
turbid arch
Who we all know and love, but not a word of Zagreus?
gaunt tundra
i suspect cerberus was a workaround
she didn't want to mention Zagreus cause someone else could get to see that letter
and all hell would break lose
turbid arch
I mean, Persephones big deal is that she did not want to go back to Olympus and that her mother is going crazy after having failed to find her.
gaunt tundra
so she said Cerberus instead of Zagreus
turbid arch
Now that is an interesting Strategy.
But I have one little problem with that:
The first time you defeat Hades, he asks you to tell her that Cerberus is doing fine.
turbid arch
Which would be redundant if Zagreus is standing in front of her in that moment.
gaunt tundra
that can be him outright saying cerberus, and ||persephone being a scumbag that doesn't care about her son||
or a way to tell her through their son that he did his part and took care of him properly
"I can't be here to tell you this in person, but know i did my part and that's exactly why your son is able to stand in front of you right now"
wide plover
reaching a bit here I'd say
gaunt tundra
it is, but it's that or ||persephone|| is trash that forgot her own children
"take care of cerberus, i don't mind what you do with that other thing though"
btw aren't we spoiling this a bit? lets move to the spoiler section XD
errant narwhal
are there any special requirements for breaking wave or am i just having very bad luck? 
turbid arch
You just need a boon that can knock back enemies.
errant narwhal
the luck.... 
turbid arch
It's hard with Poseidon because he just loves to give you sunken treasure a hundred times.
proud storm
running a build with pierced butterfly only ends up in two ways
either you do it absolutely flawlessly and end up with a +40% damage butterfly or more
or you keep getting hit exactly once in every chamber
and in the dumbest ways possible
this is my story today
tiny whale
errant narwhal
he made me stop in the lava 😭
opal bay
Than is a major bully tbh
untold vortex
Than, stahp booli 
turbid arch
Much less insufferable these days though.
Remember back in the day where seeing Thanatos could result in a loss on your high heated run just because the tight deadline timer would keep running?
Those were the days.
neon fiber
“Quite the mess you’ve made here Zagreus”
“Oh god Thanatos please let me move i’m starting to burn to death”
“You’ll have to p e r i s h for it, Zag”
turbid arch
I still don't think that Thanatos' gimmick is fun though. I'd prefer if he'd be reworked or taken out personally.
But that is just my complete and utter bitterness over having lost a lot of high heated runs because of him in the past speaking.
I am amazed that people do not want to know how old Zagreus is. That does surprise me.
I could have understood not being interested, but actively against it?
cunning urchin
Yes. Not everything needs to be told. Some things should be left to your imagination.
turbid arch
We have to disagree on that note. I would rather know everything there is to know than not knowing, even if it means not being able to say anything but "Halloween" ever again.
Shout out to anyone who got that crazy reference, by the way.
proud storm
we still dont know how tall zag is
the only clue we have on his height is that he's as tall as theseus
how tall was theseus
turbid arch
I do not think that we have an actual "canon height" to work with.
We could maybe make some educated guesstimations based on statues and the likes.
cunning urchin
Makima is the best.
And yes, I wasn't arguing for or against it. Just explaining why some people might prefer his age is not mentioned or implied.
heady kindle
What purpose does his age serve anyway? It would be misinterpreted.
turbid arch
It would give us a bit more insight into the character of Zagreus
it would also help putting his relationship with Meg and Thanatos into perspective.
Meg has to be a couple millenia older than Zagreus, same with Than, but a lot of dialog made it sound like Than and Zagreus actually grew up with one another. At least that was my take on the matter.
I also think that it would be hilarious for me as a mortal to see that Zagreus who acts like an entitled brat ends up having lived the livetimes of a few thousand entitled brats.
errant narwhal
knocked a couple more prophecies off the list, but i honestly dont think i will get the last one before the next patch lol
cunning urchin
Harsh Conditions?
errant narwhal
yep
cunning urchin
Which pacts give you trouble?
errant narwhal
i am not very good at playing with heat, though i guess i could do one at a time
im also just out of practice with the game
cunning urchin
Yeah, you can just do 1-2 at a time.
You also don't need to set them to max.
The Goddess of the Hunt prophecy might be harder to get this patch lol.
turbid arch
Just do a full heat run. Should be 57 or so. Win it and you get all of the conditions done
AND you will also become a legendary hero to this games playbase.
cunning urchin
Then disappear into the void.
turbid arch
A problem with these big achievements right now is that they actually will be null and void when the next update comes and changes everything again.
cunning urchin
Reappear in 3 years doing the same in v1.0 or whatever it is then. Then disappear again.
Well, the experience and memory doesn't go away.
turbid arch
You'd be surprised.
cunning urchin
And the pain fun you had.
errant narwhal
i cant even do 6 heat 😭 57 is a distant dream
also god yeah what are the requirements for fully loaded even its the only one im missing
cunning urchin
Exit Wounds and Dual Shot. Exit Wounds won't appear if you have Trippy Shot, Slicing Shot, or Crystal Beam.
shrewd brook
can exit wounds appear if I use Stygian Soul?
cunning urchin
Yes.
errant narwhal
i only need high tolerance, fully loaded, and breaking wave... so theyll take a painfully long time to appear now probably
i even got another defiance boon from chaos while looking for them
of course i still need tons of duo boons too
cunning urchin
That Defiance is the only one I'm still missing, I think.
@still dew I know for a fact that TD pauses in Eurydice's chamber. I'm pretty sure it pauses in the other ! chambers, too.
errant narwhal
woah i had enough darkness for 4 rerolls
not sure why i didnt invest in that sooner
cunning urchin
Authority or Persuasion?
errant narwhal
authority
cunning urchin
I finally got my third Persuasion yesterday. Only 1 more left.
Persuasion has had a very big impact on my runs.
errant narwhal
i have everything maxed now except for the rerolls, which i now have 4 of authority and none of persuasion
i only used persuasion to get the defiance from chaos but i didnt like it that much
i prefer good ol fated authority
but ive played without them for so long lol
cunning urchin
I can almost always guarantee Epic boons of my choice on my primary core boons for any build.
Getting to reroll Hermes boons is huge, too.
smoky wolf
I'm tempted to go back to persuasion. Too often authority is a massive waste when it just cycles betweens poms and hearts
naive tusk
Rerolling into Epic Greatest Reflex literally gives me this expression 
smoky wolf
Persuasion would also be nice when I use a keepsake to get the core boon I want for my run and it ends up being common with two epic choices that I don't want
naive tusk
Also, it’s good to see alma back into the groove 
cunning urchin
One Persuasion reroll is a lot more valuable than one Authority reroll. So any rerolls you pick up on a run have a lot more value, too.
turbid arch
Arguably. There are different argument made for either.
surreal hound
so if i get exclusive access, does refreshing nectar make it heroic ? I'm guessing no ?
"the next 3 boons you find have upgraded rarity"
turbid arch
Personally, I like Authority more because it allows me to get more boons in total.
Persuacion or however you spell it is remarkable when you want to get as much chaos and good chaos in your run as possible
Also in combination with the bonehourglass.
cunning urchin
@surreal hound no, they'll be Epic.
@turbid arch I'm guessing you reroll primarily non-boon gold laurel awards?
surreal hound
ty, makes decision easier
cunning urchin
Heroic boons can be only offered as exchanges for Epic core boons; and you can upgrade boons to Heroic through Lady Demeter's Rare Crop or Eurydice's Ambrosia Delight.
surreal hound
yeah i like rare crop
turbid arch
@cunning urchin I usually safe them for when I see two gold laurel rewards, of which none is a boon, yes.
2 rerolls are guaranteed to become a god then (unless I haven't seen my hammer yet).
Same goes for the room next to the final shop in every biome
cunning urchin
Why are 2 rerolls guaranteed to become a god?
turbid arch
I don't know the details on it. I think it has to do with the fact that there is only so many gold laurel rewards that you can get paired with the fact that you can't get the same one twice in a row.
If you have found the hammer already, GL rewards can be a heart, a pom, money or a god boon or a trial of the gods
If I see, say, money and a pom, I reroll once, it almost always comes out as a heat. I reroll again, it will be a god or, rarely, a trial.
Sometimes it is a god on the first roll. Lucky.
Sometimes even a trial on the first roll, yay
I think that you can't get the same chamber reward twice on two doors next to one another which is also a factor
cunning urchin
And the 2-3 next rewards are always different from one another? I.e., if one is a pom and the other is a heart, the pom can't reroll into a heart.
turbid arch
Not always but most of the time.
Sometimes when I am not satisfied with the outcome
that is, if I see ares
I get angry and roll a couple times more often
but that is when the outcome becomes less predictable and lucrative.
In Styx it is even better.
You usually see 5 doors, with 2 of them being gods and the remaining (usually) being money, poms and a heart
You see money, poms and the heart, you can use one reroll to get a god guaranteed
and then another 2 for yet another one afterwards
cunning urchin
I see. So it's not impossible to get only gold or gold as your options for the next chamber. Hmm.
turbid arch
It is nice to get superstacked runs like that.
Another big part here is that you can also reroll miniboss rooms.
naive tusk
@true pilot I don't understand well how you explained the way Fully Loaded has to be acquired
turbid arch
Miniboss rooms usually cycle through three gods, so sometimes rolling the bones there is also a huge asset if you look for someone in particular.
true pilot
@naive tusk Right now, you need a T1 (Attack, Special, Call, etc), Exit Wounds, Dual Cast, and it only shows up later in the run. So even if you get all of the pre-requisites in Tartarus, it wouldn't be offered to you there.
My suggestion is change it to T1 + Exit Wounds only, and go back to normal rarity. This would be the same as Athena's requirements (T1 + Brilliant Riposte).
Exit Wounds specifically so it won't be offered if you have Trippy Shot / Blade Rift
turbid arch
But why limit it that way?
mossy breach
you need both dual cast and exit wounds? i thought you only needed one of them
turbid arch
No, you need both.
naive tusk
Well.... to get Exit Wounds, you still need Dual Cast (if going for a Cast boon other than True Shot). So it still wouldn't change it's rarity that much in my opinion
turbid arch
Why not have trippy shot, slicing shot and crystal shot benefit from the extra cast stones too?
surreal hound
11 turn well of charon so good
true pilot
Slicing Shot leads to Hunting Blades and that's "too overpowered" if you get 6+ of them.
Trippy Shot has Ice Wine + Scintilating Feast
and is already the strongest cast in the game, currently
Crystal Beam is a sad casualty that did nothing to deserve this mistreatment.
turbid arch
It is proper feedback on the current gamestate.
naive tusk
You were answering to the previous feedback. If you disagree, just give it a 👎
That's why I am currently discussing with Pixel about their feedback in this channel.
surreal hound
deflect doom was dashing for over 500 damage lol
turbid arch
I was not answering to it. He made me realize that there is no point in the hard restriction of fully loaded behind exit wounds at the cost of making the best cast boons/duos not being able to benefit that.
And I wanted to point that out.
Not to him but to the developers.
mossy breach
so the only way to get fully loaded with (for exaple) hunting blades is to only upgrade your cast when you get exit wounds?
cunning urchin
Yeah, it was clearly inspired by the previous feedback, but definitely standing on its own. 
naive tusk
So you are saying that Exit Wounds shouldn't be a requisite? I misread that, apologies. Feel free to submit that again 😓
turbid arch
No, be a dear and put it back in for me please. My food just came in.
cunning urchin
Well, it's not like mods can just un-delete a message.
naive tusk
I do not see the point of restricting Fully Loaded by hardlocking it behind exit wounds when the games most fun cast runs the game has to offer are centered around duo boons for which exit wounds does not work.
Copy paste this lol
cunning urchin
I guess you can sort of un-delete. I don't have these magic powers in my servers.
naive tusk
Anyways, back to the previous feedback, I was saying that to acquire Exit Wounds without True Shot, you still need to get Dual Shot so it's almost the same as having those 2 boons as requirements. It would only change if you are aiming to get True Shot.
true pilot
Fair. I was working under the assumption that Exit Wounds shows up as long as your cast can get lodged.
naive tusk
Also, Athena's Legendary isn't really hard to get; people just prefer to skip Brilliant Riposte lol
true pilot
But that's exactly it.
You'll not run into it as a matter course, unlike, say, Aphrodite's where you'll very likely always pick a stronger Weak effect if it's offered and now you're in the running for Unhealthy Fixation.
cunning urchin
Mind pinning that?
cunning urchin
Thank you! 
naive tusk
(Kinda feels shameful to pin my own messages but if asked...)
true pilot
To an extent, I get Icebox there. I would like it to be any T1 + any Cast-relevant T2 = Extra Casts!!! :D But unless they can somehow address the disparity between the casts, that would just bring us back to chucking 8 rifts and hiding in the corner.
naive tusk
I agree that Fully Loaded needs to be brought back into the fray; it's barely seen nowadays and new people think it's a myth 😆
proven robin
THere was one time I got it, and...I forget if I won that run, but it's pretty great.
mossy breach
I got it once and i remember it very well because it was an amazing run. got like 9 artemis casts with hera bow, hermes recall and Heart rend (weak on attack)
true pilot
I've had, in this run, even: https://imgur.com/SzRuqLI
After I got it, I don't think I had to hit anything with Poseidon's special.
But that was literally the only time I saw it, and I was very specifically trying to get it for the prophecy. Greater Recall was just a lucky accident.
turbid arch
And the repost is done.
Had chicken breast by the way. About 8 or so of them. Also a chunk of rasp and blueberries.
cunning urchin
Evil.
dry ember
Good for you. Me on the other hand, I logged onto my work computer today and saww no one online. It's memorial day zzz.
So what kind of misadventure should I go on in Hades today?
mossy breach
that sounds so much like something zagreus would say
cunning urchin
We've all done full heat runs today, so you should do one, too. You're the only one who hasn't done one yet.
dry ember
Lmao I got murdered my Meg at 57.
I think it's time to burst out the Poseidon Fists with Huge Catch build.
cunning urchin
It's super easy with a secret boon combination that I won't tell you. That's part of the fun. We all figured it out on our own, too.
true pilot
Full Heat? As in, every option cranked to the max?
cunning urchin
@true pilot yes, don't you remember when we all did that earlier and talked about how unfortunate it was that @dry ember couldn't be here to join in on the fun?
cunning urchin
See you in a minute.
(I did that in a minute. 40 seconds of that was waiting on the Hades phase transition.)
dry ember
You are right. 57 is really easy. Barely broke a sweat.
made some friends along the way too
proven robin
I completely and totally believe this. Kudos.
true pilot
xD
dry ember
thanks! could have gone for PB but I just got up so feeling lazy. might attempt world record later idk
true pilot
Honestly? It's Routine Inspection that kills it.
neon fiber
pic checks out
true pilot
If you can do a reasonable Pierced Butterfly run with Forced Overtime, having Stubborn Defiance to bail out any mistakes means that the only caveat to beating 50+ is Approval Process RNG.
Routine Inspection high enough to disable that kills it. X_X
dry ember
I mean if you can somehow get SF with deadly strike and hunter dash
you might get through
Damage Control 2 though
cunning urchin
@dry ember I'm disappointed in how long that run took you.
cunning urchin
Not even sub 10. Smh.
I know it was Heartbreak Strike that made the run. Lady Aphrodite's boons are just the best.
true pilot
Damage Control isn't that much of a problem with Aspect of Chaos, but with Damage Control, Jury Summons, and Calisthenics, having Tight Deadline at 7:00 is a lot of pressure on what boons you get.
dry ember
oh yeah, hearbreak strike is oh so crucial on a merciful end shield run
you right
you right
Damage control with Benefit Package can be tight too.
Have you seen the Savior Cloner Numbskull combo with DC2?
dry ember
❤️
cunning urchin
Cloner Shifter Brimstones are pretty mean, too.
true pilot
My theoretical bet would be Doom Attack, Chill Flourish, with Killing Freeze and Winter Harvest. But getting that past Approval Process without the ability to reroll rooms/boons? Yessh.
cunning urchin
Nah, Brimstones are free. It's just with some perks they are nasty.
dry ember
they are not in the Pierced Butterfly context, also lava
but in general yeah, they are a pushover
true pilot
Oof Lava.
When I got started I was like, "Oh, I need 1 Heat, I'll just upgrade the traps since that's probably free."
"Why am I dying to the Hydra so much?"
"Oh."
proven robin
Yep. That...was a difficult discovery.
cunning urchin
I liked how it forces you to be more aware of the traps and magma.
Then everything started throwing bombs at me on higher heat, and I was like yeah screw this I wanna walk on magma.
dry ember
Fishes can live in magma, but Zag can't stand on it for than 2s
proud storm
theyre special fish
dry ember
and zag is a literal God
proud storm
gods can die
cunning urchin
Not the God of standing in magma.
proud storm
fish cannot
dry ember
idk, I still think fish > Zag
proud storm
sure thing little sprout
damn it has less effect now that i dont have the demeter picture
cunning urchin
It does.
neon fiber
literal demigod*
dry ember
he's quarter human or full blown god depending on myths right?
neon fiber
no
surreal hound
poseidon epic lvl 2 attack lvl 3 dash. 30% attack speed, and just got Sea Storm duo right before hydra boss
neon fiber
if we go by what we think we assume we know of the original myth he should be full god
if we go by hades lore then ||he's one quarter human, half cthonic quarter olympian but i don't think there's that many differences between the types of god since they're all
well, gods||
naive tusk
LOL Icebox. I can't say no to more sweet DD icons 
turbid arch
Technicly Hades is no cthonic god himself, so it would be 3 quarters olympian 1 quarter mortal I think.
cunning urchin
I disagree. He's not the hero we deserve. But he's the hero we need.
turbid arch
Hades merely adopted the darkness. Unlike gods like Thanatos or Meg who have been born in it.
Molded by it.
The batman references are strong in here today.
cunning urchin
(But I won't forget he didn't show up on any of my 32 heat runs. )
neon fiber
but hades is cthonic though
neon fiber
being an olympian does not exclude you from being a cthonic god, it's just a designation that means you're an underworld god
hell, hades is even classified as one in the codex to begin with
the olympians are just the gods that live in mount olympus
gaunt tundra
yep, it's clasified in mythos as such
feels wrong as hell, but oh well, it wasn't me who wrote those so can't really deny them
then yeah, zag is quarter human, quarter olympian, half cthonic and 1/4 ham and cheese
turbid arch
Hang on.
Hang on, hang on, there is a lot of questionable things of this.
If Hades being an Olympian God coming to the Underworld makes him a Cthonic God
shouldn't the same apply to Persephone as well?
Or does only her Olympian Godliness, the 50% of which gets overwritten to Cthonic godliness?
What happened the moment Persephone left the Underworld? Did she become "just" an Olympian again?
If we assume that, Zagreus would be either 100% Chtonic God or 75% Chtonic and 25% mortal
gaunt tundra
the mortal part ain't going anywhere
olympian or cthonic depends on where they reside i guess
turbid arch
I take this one step further:
None of the gods of olympian decend actually enjoy being in the underworld.
We have Hades who implied in some dialog that he does not enjoy being in the underworld, he even said that he tried to leave it himself and failed
Persephone did not enjoy the underworld and noped out of it, leaving a fancy letter behind
and Zagreus is in the process of failing repeadedly to nope out of the underworld himself.
I go take this yet another step further and bring Chaos to the mix:
Chaos has a dialog where he feels like the Underworld itself wants to spit out Zagreus
neon fiber
persephone's a weird case
on the one hand she was the queen of the underworld for a short amount of time
on the other one she was not a full god and ended leaving
so i'd say depends on who you ask and whether she's worshipped or not i guess
and/or whether she exhibited any divine abilities either way
i wonder what determines your domain in hades though
cunning urchin
I don't know how to answer this gameplay question.
dry ember
Meanwhile someone is asking a gameplay question in the spoiler channel
gaunt tundra
it's all a loop
neon fiber
do you change into one kind of god or the other depending on what you do before your abilities manifest or the context they're awakened in?
do the fates just kind of decide it for you since they seem to rule over what everything and everyone does and will end doing?
hey this is very important gameplay thank you very much
gaunt tundra
we might be defining zagreus's current skills rn
cunning urchin
Omg you're not even joking. 
dry ember
Dash cancel and animation cancel should not be listed in weapon tutorial imo.
That's "advanced" stuff
But continuing Arthur combo should be listed
Split your feedback in 2 so I can downvote one of them 
cunning urchin
I'll do that.
I don't think it's advanced at all. It's very easy to do.
The only thing that's "advanced" about it is that new players have no way of knowing you can do that.
dry ember
Easy doesn't mean it's not advanced. Ik you might be familiar with animation cancel, but imo the vast majority of playerse are not familiar with the concept or even want to do it.
cunning urchin
"Special then dash to perform a [dash-special]." There, no need to mention cancel at all.
Call it "Nova Smash Lunge" or something.
dry ember
Ok it can get semantic here, but that's not the "intended" way to use the weapon. Tutorial should be just that, the intended way.
The special animation is intended to be played out
Canceling it, even if you don't want to mention it, is not part of the intended way
cunning urchin
Of course it's intended. If it wasn't, the Special wouldn't slam the ground.
You'd either not be able to cancel, or the cancel would simply be into a dash without the slam.
dry ember
Ok let me clarify.
Animation cancel may indeed be intended, but for a subset of people. More specifically the ones who aim to climb high heat, speed runners, or just really want to get good at the game.
So you are right, it's "intended" that way.
But tutorial is supposed to be for casual players who want nothing but explore the game. They might like the flashy animations more than the efficiency of dash canceling.
So that's why I oppose to introducing dash canceling in the tutorial. Continuing the combo, on the other hand, is an integral and unique part of Excalibur that should be mentioned but not, so I agree there.
cunning urchin
They could simply put in an "advanced tutorial" for such things, if that's indeed somehow an issue for casual players to see that you can dash cancel Stygius's Special.
dry ember
Ok then that's fair.
raw violet
generally, animation cancelling is not necessarily an "intended feature"
so much as a result of the buffering system designed to make actions feel good
it's in many action games
to prevent players from feeling like they're locked into specific animations
because nothing feels worse than being unable to dodge/jump out of attacks to react to enemies
naive tusk
I don't know how to answer this gameplay question.
LOL 😂
stoic thicket
Okay, so that Hera bow. How do I properly use that thing?
naive tusk
Get a cast boon > load it > Bam!
stoic thicket
Any suggestions in particular? I was liking the look of either Artemis or Poseidon.
naive tusk
Jokes aside, what do you mean exactly?
stoic thicket
Artemis just for the mountains of nice things she does with crit and exit wounds and her legendary and all that stuffs.
cunning urchin
Dash-Strike like you would with Zagreus Aspect and load casts into it whenever you have any.
naive tusk
Trippy Shot + its duo boons is nice with Hera
stoic thicket
Poseidon because he keeps things off my shapy behind.
naive tusk
Crystal Beam is a no-no.
cunning urchin
Trippy Shot + Duo Boons is pretty OD on anything, admittedly.
stoic thicket
Yeah, wasn't planning on Crystal Beam.
cunning urchin
(Not that they ever give me those Duo Boons.)
stoic thicket
Ice Wine combo works on anything even without the bow tho.
cunning urchin
Yes. But you get to play Robin Hood, too?
naive tusk
Also, Hera will make your bloodstones drop faster so you can use Ice Wine more often.
cunning urchin
Hera benefits from the semi-instant delivery of Trippy Shot a lot.
naive tusk
You don't even need to go for Ice Wine, Hera already takes care of Trippy Shot being an insta hit. It boosts cast damage and chills, though.
cunning urchin
Semi-instant: more than an instant, less than a moment.
naive tusk
That also sounds fun!
dry ember
But go hunting the bloodstones back gonna be a pain
cunning urchin
It was a good joke. 
I recorded some attack patterns with the bow on Skelly yesterday, but I've been too lazy to watch it back yet to figure out DPS numbers lol. Maybe tomorrow.
Little tip if you want to test anything on Skelly: turn up Calisthenics Program and Damage Control because those affect him, too.
naive tusk
Speaking of the bow, when is it good to get Piercing/Charged Volley? I never pick them because I don't know how or when to use them properly.
dry ember
I never picked piercing tbh
raw violet
when you want to meme
dry ember
Charged Volley can be good point blank with decent flourish boon
Though there are better things imo
naive tusk
Yeah, that's why I never pick them
dry ember
cunning urchin
I guess with Jury Summons you might see enough enemies at once that they're useful? Or in a room full of clones.
naive tusk
I guess Piercing Volley with Curse of Pain would work in mob rooms.
cunning urchin
Yeah.
cunning urchin
Also for applying Doom on Greatshields because Piercing Volley is unblockable.
dry ember
The animation for that combo is longer than a giraffe's neck though
naive tusk
I don't like to fire at point blank range but I tried it once with Thunder Flourish and it was fun
My hopes and dreams created in the last 5 minutes just went poof...
dry ember
Don't let you memes be dreams
naive tusk
(Nice catchphrase bruh)
dry ember
Ty I stole it from the internet
cunning urchin
I think the bow's Special is kind of a solution in search of a problem.
proven robin
Lightning Phalanx Hera seems like it'd be fun.
dry ember
I lost an SF Rail run with Deadly Strike. AMA.
proven robin
SF?
dry ember
Spreadfire
mighty ermine
Spread fire
raw violet
you just sound like you're trying very hard to mount evidence against any possible act of future balancing
that may or may not occur
cunning urchin
What else did you have to buff your attack damage? Deadly Strike alone is mediocre.
dry ember
Lemme look
raw violet
relatively, maybe
cunning urchin
It's genuinely bottom tier DPS until you have other bonus damage on your attacks. That's when it grows into S+ tier.
Well, SF is big damage either way, of course.
raw violet
right
it's almost splitting hairs at that point
how much bonus damage does deadly strike need?
to overcome other options?
neon fiber
Wow i didn’t know piercing fire got through elysian shield boys
raw violet
20? 40? 60%?
neon fiber
Does it also disregard theseus’ block
dry ember
I mean I had Divine Dash and a couple of crit related boons from arte
mighty ermine
Yes
neon fiber
Amazing
I’m so glad i got Artemis’ atk boon on heroic
cunning urchin
I didn't keep any numbers, but I'm pretty sure about a Hunter Dash would be enough? Depends on rarity too, though.
untold quiver
Awww man Addled Grasp on Hera bow? Here's hoping I don't got the Furies in 4 rooms
cunning urchin
I've only glanced at things like that yet to get a general idea.
raw violet
hunter dash varies pretty widely pending on rarity
i can't think of how widely off the top of my head though
i think epic is around 100%?
dry ember
yeah epci should be 100%
cunning urchin
The spreadsheet for the Special damage is my first genuinely rigorous research I've done for Hades.
Common is 50%, Rare is 75, Epic is 100%.
I mostly assumed Rare when I glanced at things, but I remember it differed depending on rarity of the attack boons, too.
raw violet
@untold quiver you can open your boon menu to check what chamber number you're in to know how close you are to the boss
untold quiver
It's the Hera bow.....I was taking it anyway I'd rather be surprised
naive tusk
Such dedication 😄
untold quiver
It was epic 6 casts? That's worth the gamble
cunning urchin
Heartbreak Strike = HB
Deadly Strike = D
common attack modifier
HB: 1.5
D: 1.56
rare
HB: 1.65~1.75
D: 1.638~1.69
epic
HB: 1.9~2
D: 1.768~1.82
heroic
HB: 2.15~2.25
D: 1.898~1.95
Deadly Strike benefits 1.3x more from any +1% damage, assuming no other crit modifiers.
untold quiver
The +# is green I got it at normal but I'm doing a bunch of Demeter so I'm hoping that means I can buff it....the wiki says it goes up
graceful smelt
world splitter or cruel thrust?
raw violet
that attack modifier is base damage?
and does not account for average crit damage over time?
cunning urchin
That's averaged for crits.
heady kindle
Wait spreadsheet did someone say spreadsheet?
cunning urchin
tepid ridge
@graceful smelt it depends on the build and difficulty modifiers you have on but I like worldsplitter because of how well it works with percentage attack boons. Nice discrete damage.
cunning urchin
@naive tusk I still haven't made a legend for it. I have the same problem in fighting games. I just want to do more research. 
tepid ridge
As long as Zeus and Demeter aren’t on your attack as your sole source of damage, I like World Splitter more. Especially with crits. If they are, you’d probably want to keep your attack faster
cunning urchin
I should make a quick spreadsheet for when DS overtakes HBS.
graceful smelt
thx UnseenOak
naive tusk
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RhgbgEQ2PvrBskk7tw6RXsR8hzRQuG89W9moUruf...
Meanwhile, that one can be pinned
Cast spreadsheet when 
cunning urchin
Is that necessary? Casts aren't really affected by hammers . . .
@raw violet this is for Lv.1. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1c0C5S__GYUO8Cz2ibKhOUu7okqDTqhGRuCzwRlz6X1U/edit?usp=sharing
Takes at most +14% attack damage to overcome Heartbreak Strike on Heroic and less than that on lower rarities.
I think Heartbreak Strike benefits more from level ups, though? I'm not sure. I've no data on level scaling.
Common Deadly Strike with +23% damage from e.g. Chaos beats any Heroic Heartbreak Strike with +23% damage . . .
Woops. +21%*
cunning urchin
Yeah, not much at all.
naive tusk
She did that so more would follow the cult of Lady Aphrodite and get less "Artemis best grill" comments I mean wat
cunning urchin
Maybe this is the beginning of my #buffLadyAphrodite campaign.
Common Deadly Strike with +23% damage from e.g. Chaos beats any Heroic Heartbreak Strike with +23% damage . . .
Honestly, this is kinda silly.
Ohhhh. I made a mistake in the spreadsheet.
Forgot a $ somewhere very important.
naive tusk
Aw, look at you, being so meticulous 
dry ember
I'm upset
Fuuuuuuu
I got 5 sack and lost my 32 run to td
Hades was at 20% ish percent phase 2
naive tusk
Fudge
neon fiber
#nerfladyaphrodite
naive tusk
OMG I'm sad too now
neon fiber
This is so sad Orpheus play despacito
dry ember
Lol
naive tusk
It sure is awful when you have TD on and get unlucky with the tunnels 
dry ember
I also skipped the fish in Styx due to time
Should have just take my time fishing tbh
At least I get something out of it haha
cunning urchin
Okay, this is looking a lot more like I remember lol.
naive tusk
I want to leave some feedback but I'm afraid it won't be taken seriously 😆
Even I have trouble taking it seriously when reading it lol
cunning urchin
What's the feedback? I won't laugh.
naive tusk
"Demeter having a revenge boon would suit her mood."
neon fiber
lmao
cunning urchin
I would upvote that lol.
proven robin
...Ooh, that's pretty true, but how to implement it.
cunning urchin
Smack them with some damage + Chill.
naive tusk
Welp, if you guys think it doesn't sound trolli-ish, I can submit that XD
neon fiber
Maybe word it so it sounds a bit more serious but it’s a nice suggestion imo
proven robin
Like, I think part of what makes revenge boons feel underwhelming is that except for Zeus, they don't quite feel punchy enough.
naive tusk
I have no idea how to word it in another way, but at least the devs will have a laugh, right?
cunning urchin
@raw violet fixed the numbers now. It's indeed about the same as a Hunter Dash, like I said before. At +100% attack damage, Heroic HBS and Heroic DS are even with the best multipliers. On Epic it takes +44~60% for them to be even. Etc. All in the spreadsheet now (with correct numbers).
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1c0C5S__GYUO8Cz2ibKhOUu7okqDTqhGRuCzwRlz6X1U/edit?usp=sharing
neon fiber
Every time you get hit by an enemy then part of the damage transfers to their descrndant’s crops
raw violet
i see, so lower rarity, artemis-alone requires less to be more
naive tusk
Hm... how about if a mini vortex spawns when you are hit? Like that vortex from her Call
cunning urchin
Correct.
raw violet
this is not factoring any additional crit modifiers
naive tusk
But a weaker version ofc.
cunning urchin
Correct.
proven robin
That'd be cool!
raw violet
interesting
cunning urchin
Deadly Strike is a bit of a slow starter but can escalate into S tier over a run.
naive tusk
Heeey, something weird just happened in my playthrough.
So I am in Charon's shop, bought Athena's boon and she offered to replace my Crystal Beam for her Phalanx Shot. I did, then bought a pom. Zag repetead the "I'm sure Lady Demeter won't mind" line after buying the pom
I suppose that counts as a bug?
cunning urchin
Yeah.
main osprey
I think so
neon fiber
Yeah, deffo a bug
naive tusk
it is then~
naive tusk
Heroic Phalanx Shot run, gooo!
mossy breach
@dry ember fishing pauses the timer!
I hate this, I didnt had a single Artemis, dyonisus or poseidon boon offered in the whole run
cunning urchin
I'm sorry, but that really cracks me up.
Dionysus's Call is strong if you can get that. Pressure Points might be nice, too.
mossy breach
no, had triple bomb and rocket bomb
cunning urchin
Getting Gods you don't have yet will also add to your Family Favorite bonus.
And Poseidon is . . . there, too. How nice of him. Maybe wave to him as you walk past him.
true pilot
Quick question: Does Fiery Presence track only Health, or does it count chipped armor as already having been damaged?
mossy breach
pretty sure it counts as being damaged
cunning urchin
I would think the latter? I've never really paid attention.
Not something you can test on Skelly, unfortunately.
mossy breach
it would be really strong if it wouldnt
true pilot
*nods*
cunning urchin
You could look at the numbers you get and let us know.
true pilot
Might do that. Also completely unrelated question, but... Does God Mode reset if you toggle it off an on again?
cunning urchin
I've never used it. No idea.
true pilot
Just tested Fiery Presence and yeah, damage to armor counts.
dry ember
fishing pauses the timer!
No I'm aware of that. I meant I didn't go out of my way to get to the fishing spot. I just dashed straight to Hades since every second counts.
turbid arch
^
Same here.
High heated run, I do not bother with fishes.
Just the few seconds it takes to dash up to the spot are too crucial.
cunning urchin
That's why you lost: not saying hi to the fish.
turbid arch
Even if you are feeling like you are making good time, sometimes, it takes just one bad room to throw around your time table.
cunning urchin
Well, that's the risk you take with TD2 anyway. Wouldn't justify the heat you get from it if you could always make the timer on high heat runs.
With Hades at 20%, you could have probably made it despite the 5-sack RNG. A couple seconds less here and there in tunnel chambers, taking less damage vs Hades to give you some extra seconds.
naive tusk
1st chamber Daedalus hammer offers me this
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/608403611151761438/714562903897800715/HADES.png
Now, the question is... Charged or Piercing Volley?
turbid arch
What is your aspect?
naive tusk
Hera
naive tusk
But, what about my dream?!
turbid arch
naive tusk
I was saying earlier how I should give those 2 Volleys a chance someday
proven robin
...So I uh...I think I encountered a bug wherein I got Black Out before meeting the requirements?
naive tusk
Which one?
proven robin
I only have Trippy Shot and Drunken Strike. Are...wait, okay, maybe I'm misinterpreting your diagram?
proven robin
I think I get it.
So any of those basic ones or the Tier 2 ones, plus Trippy Shot, gets you a shot at Black Out?
Is that correct?
turbid arch
Trippy Shot + Any Poison Doom = Black Out Available
naive tusk
Yes! High Tolerance is included as well but, you know
proven robin
H'okay, got it.
naive tusk
Not any hangover boon btw. Drunken Dash is not included, weirdly enough...
naive tusk
....Has anyone ever played Coronacht with Tempest Strike?
I'm basically yeeting shades all over the place and big time 😂
proven robin
It is pretty rough!
Also...Tempest Strike does sound like fun with Coronacht! Especilaly with Triple Shot and Chain Shot.
...Speaking of Coronacht, just finished a Hera run. Never got Chain Shot, but I managed to make Triple Shot and Explosive Shot work.
Ice Wine helped too, of course.
primal sigil
someone pointed out that the different laurels around different paths have meaning. So what is the meaning?
dry ember
true pilot
It is pinned
primal sigil
The print is so small for the Elite Badges...I tried zooming in and then it becomes illegible
#whiner
main osprey
difficult, miniboss, infernal, boss
true pilot
go to the pinned version
true pilot
better resolution there.
woven kiln
cant post pics feels bad
nimble dove
https://imgur.com/a/VkOm0xr Fists and Dodge is very easy 😂
I thought i could get more dodge from doing Styx rooms but they didn't count as encounters
proven robin
Yeah, sadly.
nimble dove
I really would have liked to cheese it with as much dodge as possible lmao
sudden dagger
Looking for some advice here. I've only gotten to the surface one time, and Styx twice. I unlocked the admin zone so I know companions exist, but haven't found any other clues about them. I'm giving nectar to sysiphus every chance I get since I think bouldy must be important somehow. What's probably holding me back most is that I keep dying to bosses. Looking for hints on what to focus on to proceed
raw violet
bosses are most peoples' hurdles so it's mostly a matter of playing them more often and learning their patterns
tepid ridge
Also, once you’ve filled out nectar hearts in the codex for a given character, there will be a new symbol that means you need to do something specific, and the character themselves may not be the one who tells you what to do/procs the progression. Dialogue with everybody often links together.
true pilot
Note: If the symbol is a lock, that is correct. If the symbol is a clock, it's not in-game yet. So don't lose sleep trying to figure out how to unlock all of Cerberus' hearts.
nimble dove
Don't say it but is there one chart that's available to max heart as of now?
And what about the keepsakes
neon fiber
Thwre are several characters you can max, aye
nimble dove
my only guess is maxing hearts for the gods unless those are just placeholders for ones yet to come
neon fiber
I’d actually reccomend maxing everyone in the house first
Since four out of five current companions come from House npcs
nimble dove
Alrighty thx alot
sudden dagger
I maxed out chaos early on, got a lock, and now finally he and nyx are making encouraging noises
I had a foggy notion to max nyx next
I just like to have enough nectar on hand to always give one to the "rare" people, like Meg, Patroclius, Than, etc, who I don't see often
Although than is turning up a lot now, so I might take him out of the rotation in favor of nyx
Except it seems like I really hurt his feelings so thematically I'd like to keep trying to build bridges
primal sigil
Interesting that you can only get two Hermes boons per run
raw violet
you can get more than 2
torpid turret
You can get a 3rd in styx shop
raw violet
it is from the welcome to hell patch but i'm not sure if any changes actually were made
might be referring to 2 hermes boons from rooms specifically
primal sigil
gotcha
raw violet
but don't take my word for it
i just know you can get more than 2 by the time you're at hades
true pilot
You only get 2 from room generation, but I believe the Styx shop is guaranteed to have one Hermes. So you can get up to 3 per run if you don't skip him.
main osprey
Question about Support Fire--it doesn't seem to trigger multiple times on Specials that bounce?
main osprey
"After you Cast, or hit with an Attack or Special, fire a seeking arrow."
raw violet
fire of cast then
main osprey
I understand that. I'm talking about hitting with a Special that hits multiple times
true pilot
I don't think it does multiple.
main osprey
Lol. I'm referring specifically to Chain Skewer, atm. Then that should probably be clarified
raw violet
no, your question was clear
main osprey
not the question, the boon :P
raw violet
last time i read support fire, i had interpreted as what i described, so i have no reference
maybe so
dreamy raven
does anyone know how Hangover stacks with different skills having different damage over time?
say my hangover attack on one skill is 12 damage. but another skill is just 4
how does it interact. does 4 damage skill still apply to the cap and thus nerfs my damage?
novel prawn
I'd like to know that too actually...
raw violet
are you saying you have hangover on both attack and special?
dreamy raven
kinda. it can be any skills with different hangover values
raw violet
i don't have an answer, i just wanted to clarify the question
true pilot
I assume each individual application is tracked independently
dreamy raven
well if higher damage doesn't override the weaker dot that's just a nerf no matter how you put it
true pilot
Punch 8 times for 10 Hangover, and do 2 uppercuts for 6 Hangover = 8x10 + 2x6, tapering off as the stacks of 10 wear out.
novel prawn
TD?
dry ember
Tight Deadline
dry ember
32
I cleared it once, so I'm trying with other weapons.
But alas, I either get bad sack RNG or don't have enough damage
Last attempt I grappled with Hades for a good 3min 20s before going down lol. Dionysus shield didn't give me enough damage.
Live Die and learn I suppose
raw violet
i struggled with TD on shield a lot
true pilot
Dio Chaos is how I got my gold statue...
Definitely did not take 3 minutes to kill Hades.
dry ember
I didn't have that many synergetic boons.
Just a level 3 rare Drunken Flourish
It's was kind of a slug fest through the entire run.
raw violet
dio doesn't really have great synergetic options on shield
other than a curse on shield for priv status
better if it's aphro
dry ember
Well I initially put on Ares
raw violet
for the duo for some damage
dry ember
But didn't get Doom on special
Got offered Dio
So I took it
Equip Aphro keepsake for Asphodel for the duo
No dice
raw violet
i found more success with doom on attack and athena on special
rather than vice versa
but that was just a few anecdotal runs
raw violet
i thought doom on special would be smarter
dry ember
And Athena dash for Merc end
magic dagger
just finished EM2 with Heightened Security 👀
raw violet
but it didn't work on the run i did it on as well as i thought
dry ember
Grats!
I mean bullrush also seems to work well with doom
Since you hit so many people anyway
@magic dagger now try EM3 and witness the travesty that is EM3 Thesius and Asterius.
raw violet
dio special is just the more consistent boon, it works well enough alone if you have enough poms or start with high rarity
so its good for those rng-poor runs really
dry ember
I feel like room clear with Dio is nice
true pilot
Man, Hera with Stygian Soul is so sad. :(
dry ember
But boss fights are a bit meh
raw violet
but i struggle with TD with dio-only
i ended up switching off TD for shield specifically
dry ember
Hera with Stygian Soul can be good if you get Artemis Legendary or Chaos boons that gives plus casts.
It's an all in kinda run
Did it twice.
raw violet
every room is painfully long but it's relatively safe with shield
dry ember
Yup
That's how I feel with shield in general
Maybe TD1 and put the other 2 points somewhere else with shield.
raw violet
it feels like, for speed, shield is pretty reliant on zeus with a lot of T2+ boons
which has been a huge dice roll for me
true pilot
Ares is also not bad for speed on the shield.
dry ember
I'll just try again tomorrow. Slightly tilted today with so many close runs.
raw violet
i started a rail run and immediately got into a room full of cloning, bruiser numbskulls
dry ember
Lol
dry ember
I learned today that Hestia with Damage Control doesn't feel very good either
Certainly can be done
But annoying
raw violet
i also had damage control on
the damage gate is annoying to deal with
but i had thought it would be fine for rail since attack speed
and rail has like...no stagger anyway
neon fiber
EM3 seems fun even if i died to it the only time i gave it a shot
main osprey
After way too long, finally won another run. Was probably about to lose, but got the Demeter full heal and the Ares/Aphro duo from the last shop
neon fiber
i like how insane the whole thing is
dry ember
Yeah but the first shot of Hestia reload can go the the shield
You can negate it with cast or special
But it's annoying
raw violet
ay, it's especially bad if you have something with temporary high single-shot damage
umbral lagoon
oof i just tried a 27 heat run and got my ass handed to me
somber marlin
Woof, I'm just dipping my toe into heat 1
umbral lagoon
it makes me really hate smaller things like the increase in prices or the 400% trap damage (i literally don't know how to avoid lava - 10 damage per 0.5 sec and exponentially growing why)
Elysium is cancer
narrow halo
I agree
umbral lagoon
and i attempted an eribus trial like an idiot and failed
zeus boon too tantalizing
true pilot
As far as Heat goes, EM3 is basically default for me. Everything else is... less optimal.
I can handle most Benefits Package results, but literally any kind of buffed Numbskull is almost a ragequit. X_X
true pilot
Fast+Gravity! Armored+Clones! Laser+Shield
I can't play FO2. I tried. If I'm not doing shield, I can't handle it.
TD is usually fine, but I hate having to pause / hurry up at the end of rooms.
dry ember
my biggest nightmare is Numbskulls with cloner and links
true pilot
But EM3 never goes off. It's the easiest 5 Heat and guarantees I'll have at least Tartarus infernal gates as an option.
narrow halo
If you get zeus shield with all of ares basic boons with hermis 3 or 2 dashes you can dash through the area and apply doom stacks along side cast and dash spin blades , because at some point after the shield linger it will automatically come back to you but NOT in the same speed as hitting Y so you can dash away from it towards the enamy and the shield will get past them applying the doom effect
raw violet
FO2 for me is the easiest 5 heat
umbral lagoon
i'm probably turning off CF and trap
true pilot
Trap is the secret worst Heat.
raw violet
You’d have to experiment yourself to see what you like
true pilot
Avoiding spikes in Tartarus? Sure. Easy. Lava? Less so, but at least it's obvious. Hades' green jars? X_X
dry ember
yeah experiment for yourself
umbral lagoon
i think at this point i should be increasing the core heat more
like enemy damage, enemy health, etc.
somber marlin
Those green jars are easy. Smack and dodge.
raw violet
Everyone here has different opinions on heat options at that point
You basically have all the important ones turned on
Oh actually I missed that you don’t have TD
true pilot
aye. Also, it doesn't look like you need to be that high for now.
umbral lagoon
I really don't like the timer
I'm a slow player
27 heat is way harder than the 21 heat i did on a whim yesterday
dry ember
The core to me seems to be FO2 TD2 EM3 BP2 MM
raw violet
At high heat, the alternatives to TD are probably more painful
dry ember
I do feel like most high heat runs revolve around those anyhow
somber marlin
I have the timer on, but just for the giggles of it. I'm not trying to beat the clock, but I like knowing how long I've been at a single run.
raw violet
But, like I said, it’s personal preference
umbral lagoon
ok i'll learn how to play faster
my fingers are fat
metaphorically
but really
the reason i keep dashing into lava
is cause i suck
somber marlin
That's just a matter of practicing your aim.
true pilot
Aye.
dry ember
also krasher I got the sword dash combo down
gaunt tundra
and keeping your cool
umbral lagoon
honestly considering turning off aim assist cause i swear that's messing up my aim
dry ember
really you just need to input dash and attack at the same time
gaunt tundra
going into panic often leads you to dash into lava
somber marlin
But dashing into lava all the time, you'll also learn to dash out really fast. I can usually jump out without damaging myself when I accidentally take a lava bath.
dry ember
I tried to dash attack sequentially
raw violet
If you think about TD as a reward for not having to have enemies that hit harder, heal less, or more expensive shops
dry ember
which failed miserably
raw violet
It becomes a nice trade off
umbral lagoon
it's fine i'm turning off heightened security anyway
would rather increase enemy health
that's not even that bad
enemy damage is a no go tho
raw violet
Or in some cases, a timer is preferable to losing choice in boons or losing mirror or not being forced to sell boons
umbral lagoon
i'm not even there yet
raw violet
Enemy health is anti TD
umbral lagoon
i think you can do 32 without any of the boon annihilation choices right?
raw violet
But it more applies to bosses
umbral lagoon
i'm stuck at level 1 anyway
umbral lagoon
i would think +30% is not that much worse than the +15% i've always been playing with
and i beat it once with TD1
raw violet
Damage control is variable pending on weapon. Some deal better than others
somber marlin
Goodness, all these high heat numbers are making my head spin. And here I am at Heat 1, trying to decide what would be best. Or just trying to complete my first run with weapons. :P
umbral lagoon
yeah it's tough
the first run is the hardest
I can assure that.
Considering my first run was like 1.5 weeks ago
after that it's mostly easy
somber marlin
I turned on God Mode to push through it, and that let me get my controller reflexes back. There was a lot of dying involved, but now I don't get hit as much. :P
The best part of dying in this game is learning how to do it better the next time.
umbral lagoon
honestly when I die I just curse my stupidity or fat fingers
I do some really dumb things
I wish the FOV was larger too
so many punishes cause I can't see offscreen
like wtf
somber marlin
I don't try to blame it on anything when I die. It's a part of this game, so I just accept it and learn. If it was my own stupidness, then I'll figure out what I did and do better.
I don't know if I want to get too far in this game because I plan on getting it for the Switch or XBox when it comes out for the consoles, but I can still play on my PC and have plenty of fun with it.
dry ember
do you use a controller currently?
umbral lagoon
Imagine knowing why you make the mistakes you made.
Most of the time the mistakes are so low IQ that I'm seriously contemplating registering as mentally disabled.
Probably just need to play more though.
nimble dove
https://imgur.com/a/5ckYwma I'm barely trying and i'm somehow winning with these builds, i was just testing what the shield could do with Thunder Flourish
There'll be a day where heat will kill me lmao
dry ember
but that day is not today!
somber marlin
I am loving this Zeus aspect for the shield. Dionysus just makes everyone a drunken mess.
main osprey
Graahh. I keep dying to the explosions from the green skulls. I'm right behind a pillar and don't notice them about to hit me
somber marlin
I try to break off and focus on those skulls when I can. I don't want to deal with their explosion.
main osprey
When I see them, I do
dry ember
take the rail and auto shoot all of them from a distance
true pilot
Just dodge into the wave. >_>
true pilot
*laughs in Ruthless Reflex*
Y'all need to go play some Monster Hunter for a while. :P
dry ember
I thought monster hunter is more casual than this game?
true pilot
They're very different games. MH is never about "runs." You're always working toward some form of permanent upgrade.
But they're similar in the flavor of the action, and kind of the same way you can't just grind the mirror to like +900% Fiery Presence or +20 Defy's, the caps on what you can take per hunt in MH makes for an interesting power balance.
gaunt tundra
monster hunter casual?
well, world is a bit more casual oriented, lets be honest here
true pilot
The main point of contention for me, if I can call it that, is that the community seems to value dashes so much it's unreal.
dry ember
disclaimer never played MH
gaunt tundra
honestly, not a single enemy in Hades makes me sweat as hard as some monster hunter monsters
dry ember
don't be too hard on me
true pilot
Ruthless gives you 50% damage up guys.
dry ember
yes
but you need to survive to do damage
I love double dash not for distance
but for double the i frames
gaunt tundra
dashes are quite usefull, even when they usually don't do damage (unless blessed)
true pilot
And like, the MH comparison comes in the form of how you don't get multiple dodge-rolls in that game. And the general flow of combat is very similar.
gaunt tundra
ehhhhhh
dreamy raven
are you one of those guys that gear up with full damage and crit gear and with no health and then gets one shot rages at the team then quits
so many of those in MHW
true pilot
(You have the panic dive in MH but shhhh)
somber marlin
No idea what i frames are. But I love it for getting a couple pops of dash abilities.
gaunt tundra
i kinda see your point, but still i would've never ever compared those two
true pilot
XD
dreamy raven
honestly. MH has so many survival gear and skills. it isn't all about damage. comparing it to Hades is weird
gaunt tundra
there are way more safety nets in MH than in hades
and MH gets way crazier than Hades
so I guess it's kinda fitting
gaunt tundra
healing fly
true pilot
Fair
true pilot
You have more recovery mechanics in MH ¬¬
gaunt tundra
less rng
somber marlin
If I'm comparing anything to Hades, it's going to be Binding of Isaac. Random prefabbed rooms gathering resources and buffs to find bosses and advance to the next stage, all in an attempt to escape.
gaunt tundra
way more centered on bosses
dreamy raven
traps. sleep. para. cat. horn. sword and shield healers. A LOT of survival skills.
gaunt tundra
or Dead Cells
somber marlin
Like.....Binding of Isaac meets Dead Cells.
gaunt tundra
and still if a monsters wants you dead, be sure you're gonna die XD
somber marlin
Small weapon set, but great variety within that set.
dreamy raven
oh yeah. earplugs actually end up biggest dps increase btw
dry ember
aspects also play differently
hera bow and zag bow to me are basically 2 distinct weapons
true pilot
Bow has good aspects.
gaunt tundra
special prize to excalibur and guan yu
true pilot
The others I'm not as impressed by.
Well, shield.
Zeus vs Chaos are very different weapons.
gaunt tundra
i can't by the life of me complete the game with chaos shield
true pilot
:o
gaunt tundra
but yeah, shield is well implemented
dry ember
yeah some aspects are more distinct than others
true pilot
Chaos is like.. .the easiest weapon in the game.
gaunt tundra
2 i think i throw 3 shields
gaunt tundra
i love that shield
true pilot
You just hide behind the bull rush, then you don't even need to aim and hit everything in the room.
true pilot
You need a good flourish for it.
gaunt tundra
thesseus and asterius end up getting me
dry ember
shield needs some upgrades
gaunt tundra
reached final boss once, and got clobbed
gaunt tundra
i should, but the idea of chaos shield speaking really got to me XD
true pilot
's kind of in the same boat as the Chiron bow. It's good stuff, but needs some blood to get going.
gaunt tundra
i need to refill on blood, excalibur got me dry after unlocking
dry ember
yeah bring it to level 3 at least before it really hits its stride
gaunt tundra
chiron is lvl 1 and still managed to beat on lvl 0 and 1 heat
(I'm taking it slow cause scarce time)
i think it's because the bow still has damage inherently, shield? not so much
dry ember
honestly most zag aspects are nice and cheap
true pilot
Except the sword. :P
dry ember
yeah
true pilot
But at least you get a pity reward for maxing it.
dry ember
they knew
you would never upgrade zag sword
so they put the quest in to coax you into doing it
SSG can't fool me lol
true pilot
The reward itself isn't bad either. Totally fair to pay 5 blood for it.
Not the best of the bunch, but the fact that it works on everything is neat.
true pilot
You can use it on the last fight.
Bouldy also works, so that incentive isn't terribly compelling.
But yeah, as far as aspects go, the weapon I think has the worst batch is the Rail.
dry ember
huh hestia and zag play pretty differently to me
true pilot
Zag just gets ammo, which is w/e. Would be amazing if you had room to unload with concentrated fire, but nothing gives you time to do that.
Eris is just a "here, have extra damage"
dry ember
Zag ammo is neato with Spreafire