h1-builds-and-combat

[raw violet]

i agree

[mighty ermine]

oh boy the dash is especially bad yeah

[inland pebble]

I don't even bother pick that up

[cunning urchin]

I think Hangover being meh is fine because Trippy Shot is A+ or S tier.

[raw violet]

but it's the only chaos special where if i get no other boons, i can still make it to hades on high heat

[cunning urchin]

Definitely S+ with Duo Boons.

[mighty ermine]

ice wine is just

some of the most fun you can have with a cast build

good gods

[inland pebble]

Only because Dio cast has such amazing synergy with Z and Demeter

Did they nerf Hunting blades?

I feel like the tracking is not that good anymore

[mighty ermine]

they did nerf it at a point

long winter update

• Hunting Blades (Ares x Artemis): reduced speed; reduced tracking

[inland pebble]

I'm still meh about Artemis' new requirement for her Legendary

[mighty ermine]

it's a little much

[inland pebble]

So unaccessible

[cunning urchin]

I just play like it doesn't exist at the moment.

[mighty ermine]

same haha

[cunning urchin]

Will be nice in June when they finally give her a legendary.

[raw violet]

her boon pool seems quite bloated, relatively

or maybe it feels that way

[mighty ermine]

even in runs where i'm doing poseidon aspect and true shot, going for all the legendary prereqs because i want them anyways

i STILL never, ever get it

[raw violet]

cause all her boons help every other build in some way

[cunning urchin]

Support Fire is amazing.

[dry ember]

I'm convinced Fully Loaded is a myth

Support Fire Pressure Point seems good though

[cunning urchin]

@raw violet yeah, she never offers bad boons.

[mighty ermine]

pressure points is just an incredible boon all around honestly

just gets better as your run gets further

[raw violet]

i feel like pressure points always shows up

[inland pebble]

It's like a primary boon

Tier 1

[raw violet]

like if i get a great rng run and i get the duo boon i'm going for early, at some point artemis will just show up and say, hey, you want that to be better?

[inland pebble]

It will show up when you have no slots left for a primary boon

[raw violet]

yeah, i didn't think about that

[mighty ermine]

"what if all your damage sources just had a chance to absolutely chunk foes" interesting proposition artemis i will test this myself thank you

[dry ember]

I never really use the cast side of Artemis

[raw violet]

almost every cast build i run, i dip into artemis

if not go all into

[dry ember]

I mean like if you go in without a build in mind

Would you pick True Shot over Deadly Strike?

[mighty ermine]

stygian soul makes them even easier to just no-brain with too, especially if you get an extra cast from chaos

[dry ember]

Aspect notwithstanding

[mighty ermine]

or fully loaded from artemis but that hardly exists

[raw violet]

i wouldn't even pick true shot usually

[inland pebble]

True shot is picked only when I want to get Fully loaded

[dry ember]

My problem is when I see Arte, I pick Hunter Dash or Deadly Strike/Flourish

By the time I see Secondary Fire (?) I'm deep into another build.

[raw violet]

i did a achilles hunting blades build for fun and managed to get fully loaded by end of elysium i think

[mighty ermine]

oh yeehaw

[raw violet]

but that's if your first couple boons are other casts

then artemis shows up and you say, why not try

[turbid needle]

I had just two with Achilles and Vicious Cycle and two Casts was enough to drop the last two final boss phases.

[mighty ermine]

vicious cycle and hunting blades is the ultimate [chef kiss]

though fate is cruel and i haven't gotten vicious cycle in a while

[cunning urchin]

I'm convinced if you crunched the numbers for best DPS build on Malphon, it's between Merciful End and a pure Lady Artemis build.

[raw violet]

even if i wasn't going to get fully loaded, the double cast alone is amazing

[turbid needle]

Dual Shot is great.

[raw violet]

that one, yes

[mighty ermine]

i've had a pure artemis build on malphon before, it was actually pretty bonkers

[raw violet]

i think my very first cast build was full artemis

"oh, that's what people are talking about with casts"

[mighty ermine]

dual shot on the cast themed aspects is so satisfying

[inland pebble]

On the other hand, Exit Wound? We don't claim her.

[mighty ermine]

but on poseidon aspect

[raw violet]

exit wound is so specific

to poseidon aspect

and...not a ton of casts

[mighty ermine]

it can also work decently with hera's reduced lodge time

[dry ember]

Does exit wound even work with Stygian Soul?

[mighty ermine]

it does

[inland pebble]

3, to be exact. Dio, Demeter, Ares.

[cunning urchin]

Yes.

[dry ember]

So instead of being dislodged, the bloodstones just disappear and do damage?

[turbid needle]

Yes.

[inland pebble]

I think Stygian Soul is the sole reason why Fully Loaded got nerfed

[raw violet]

even the poseidon duo loses its function with exit wounds

[inland pebble]

*to be such unobtianable

[raw violet]

but i guess that's balanced

[faint vigil]

does chaos boons stack with each other?

[raw violet]

if blizz shot could do more damage it'd be a problem

[inland pebble]

Not really, the nerf affects other aspect of the game too.

[raw violet]

actually maybe it would be more balanced if it lodged instead of slowly moved through enemies

[cunning urchin]

@faint vigil yes. If you get two of the same, it will show as Lv.2 instead, but you get the bonus from each.

[inland pebble]

Just wait till they fix that. I believe that unlodged is an unintentional effect

[mighty ermine]

the lingering nature of blizzard shot is part of what makes it worthwhile

[raw violet]

balance is not the right word, it would be significantly less useful

i agree, i don't think it would be worthwhile cast if it didn't linger

[cunning urchin]

Not deleting bosses anymore would make it less useful, yes.

[raw violet]

shh

[faint vigil]

@cunning urchin so if i have one dash attack 75% and one with 50% they add it together?

[mighty ermine]

blizz shot with extra cast damage 😩

[raw violet]

@faint vigil yes

[cunning urchin]

Yeah, that will give you +125% dash-strike damage.

[inland pebble]

It's so slow thou. Some bosses need to be stationary long enough for it to "delete" someone

[raw violet]

all bosses are pretty stationary when they get hit

[mighty ermine]

it has a pretty wide berth as well

[faint vigil]

thanks guys

[inland pebble]

Not with the final boss or T&A on 40% speed

[raw violet]

dual cast also makes it extra wide boi

have you tried bliz cast on FO2?

cause it does not care

[mighty ermine]

i can't believe i haven't had a run with dual shot on blizz shot

i crave this now

[cunning urchin]

You can precast it on Hades when he's still invincible. As soon as his invincibility wears off, he dies a thousand deaths.

[inland pebble]

Yeah, been there done that.

[raw violet]

if anything, hitting a boss directly with blizz cast is not as desirable as if they go through it

minotaur is easy to pin against the wall too

[mighty ermine]

right, you generally want it to just skim them

[inland pebble]

Theseus EM3 thou

[raw violet]

theseus just stands there most of the time in his shield that does nothing

or in his chariot

chariot is an even bigger hitbox when he turns to go through the middle

the ideal cast time

certainly, you'll miss if you're trying to hit theseus while he's riding his merry go round

[mighty ermine]

his radial chariot world tour can be obnoxious sometimes

[raw violet]

but you could probably get in front of him and cast as he's coming

[mighty ermine]

the middle runs and just. stopping to be theseus kinda balances it out

yeah but he'll scoot past it without much effort

[raw violet]

yeah

i was just saying, you could

[inland pebble]

My most satisfied moment is when I can force T&A to fight each other 😈😈😈

now kiss! meme intensifies

[raw violet]

the fastest TA fight i had was luring minotaur to theseus during his chariot turn and dumping bliz cast

[inland pebble]

Mine is when I play Cupid and permanently charm those 2

[raw violet]

pick up casts while they're phasing and repeat

[mighty ermine]

into the blender with you boys

evil cupid

arrows of extreme irritability

[cunning urchin]

My fastest champions fight was when I had no DDs and no HP.

[dry ember]

Can you win 20+ heat consistently or does it involve a certain amount of luck?

[inland pebble]

Yeas, 20 heats is my base run now

[dry ember]

Ok.

[mighty ermine]

20 isn't bad at all after a point yeah

the + part though

depends on how much +

[inland pebble]

All you need is get a controller and use dash attacks only on the sword (jk)

[agile prism]

Just cry

[inland pebble]

(But also, seriously)

[dry ember]

Lol I'm actually trying to learn the Special DS DS combo

[raw violet]

you say kidding, but it's really not kidding

[dry ember]

My DS keeps missing though

[cunning urchin]

Can confirm that tactic works with Malphon, too.

[mighty ermine]

my curse is being able to do that just fine but hammers never give me double edge

[raw violet]

yeah but malphon is hold attack and press dash every now and then

laugh your way to victory

[dry ember]

Also that doesn't work for Arthur right?

[raw violet]

it works with arthur, but not as well

[dry ember]

Cause you get way more DPS with normal attack DS DS

For the combo

[raw violet]

espcially if you have FO2

[inland pebble]

The sword's attack animation is so slow, so I give up on it already. Dash Attack is my bf now

[mighty ermine]

arthur has the specific dash combo-ing feature that can easily screw it up, and it's just slower in general yeah

[raw violet]

the special is only thrown in to cover the cooldown of dash

[mighty ermine]

exactly

and arthur's is molasses

[raw violet]

it's not a specific special-dash-dash

more like special-dash x(however many dashes you have)

[cunning urchin]

I think Swift Strike is probably the single best boon you can get for Excalibur.

[inland pebble]

Yeah, combo it with Dio Attack 😎

[dry ember]

Excalibur and Cursed Sword

[raw violet]

i did a arthur cursed sword run

it was

something

[cunning urchin]

When your truck turns out to have the agility and speed of a Formula 1 racing car.

It oddly enough feels somehow less satisfying to hit enemies with it when you have Swift Strike, though.

[dry ember]

I like the dash combo with Arthur

Thing is when I do it it's just the forward lunge

I have to consciously hit a normal attack to trigger it.

Then WHACK WHACK

[cunning urchin]

Omg.

It's not a fox.

It's a duck.

[dry ember]

It's a dog.

And everything is fine.

One day I will make 32 heat.

Right now I'm stuck at 13 lol

[naive tusk]

“Everything is fine” 🐶 🔥

[cunning urchin]

Dogs don't go "WHACK WHACK".

I'm a witch, so if you weigh the same as me, it's proof that you're a duck.

[agile prism]

This dog..... whack...... this run.... whack.... the way he does high heats..... WHACK

But me..... im stuck in Hell!

[cunning urchin]

[dry ember]

Burn her

[cunning urchin]

Hmmm. Try 32 heat again, or get a 3rd Fated Persuasion first.

[dry ember]

Get 3rd FP by dying at 32 heat

[cunning urchin]

Why don't you come and try burn me, Mr. 13-heat-is-too-much-for-me.

🔥

[raw violet]

wow

[lapis matrix]

I'm stuck on 15 heat

[agile prism]

OK question... for my next Hades art.... should I do Hades holding Zag looking at him strangely as a baby.... or should I do Zag resting on Dusa's head.... or Zag wrapped up in Meg's whips mid fight..... or should I do something else like the shade fan getting a signature from Zag in Elysium

[lapis matrix]

Baby sounds nice

[smoky wolf]

Supportive shade!

[lapis matrix]

Or the shade

[west totem]

Yes

[cunning urchin]

All Hades fan art should be Lady Aphrodite.

[proven robin]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2103753528 Managed to get the silly combo for Ice Wine + Scintillating Feast, and on top of that my Special was juiced thanks to a Chaos boon, Demeter, and the Hammer mods to make the shields ricochet more and the body explosion when I catch them.

[smoky wolf]

Red shade best shade

[agile prism]

iM SO CONFLICTED

Red shade is best shade

[west totem]

Why did they name the game after the side character, and not the main character Artemis?

Also red shad best shade

[cunning urchin]

@proven robin nice!

[dry ember]

I lost an Ice Wine Scintillating Feast run

[west totem]

Why not... COMBINE ALL OF THEM

[agile prism]

I could also draw Zag going hunting with Artemis finally

[dry ember]

With Hera bow

[cunning urchin]

@dry ember that takes talent, too.

[dry ember]

Why you had to rub it in like this

[proven robin]

Oh, and Chill was juiced with the Decay boon.

[agile prism]

@west totem tempting.....

[dry ember]

Sack RNG

[west totem]

Baby zag tied up by a whip on top of dusa drawing the shade's autograph in crayon while young hades squints menacingly

[dry ember]

Keep sassing me. I'll burr Yee, right after I assist King Arthur with his quest.

[agile prism]

OHHHHHH I could also do a series of drawings of kid Zag

[smoky wolf]

@dry ember I lost my last run on phase 2 of Hades because I got overconfident. I think it's good to get humbled sometimes and figure out what you did wrong.

Makes you a better player

[mighty ermine]

you can't convince me hades has ever looked not exactly as old and bearded as he does now

[dry ember]

I died to Tight Deadline

[agile prism]

Like training with achilles, getting smacked by Meg, playing with dusa and stuff

[west totem]

Or a series of drawings by baby zag

[dry ember]

Since the sack was in last room

[agile prism]

Exactly

[smoky wolf]

Oh, in Styx?

Yeah that's rough

[agile prism]

Baby zag drawing his family

[dry ember]

Yeah I lost an Ice Wine Scintillating Feast run due to TD

I did play badly too

[raw violet]

the 5 path sac is real tough on TD

[agile prism]

OK.... @west totem should I do them all in sketch form? I could do each in a good 30 mins flat..... or should I do more intricate drawings

[mighty ermine]

5 sack should be illegal

[proven robin]

@cunning urchin Thanks! It was a fun run...also I'm noticing that spear and bow are getting noticeably more Dark Thirsts than the other weapons.

[raw violet]

5 seems like it should always be optional

or at least modified when TD is turned on

[smoky wolf]

Shovel knight devs implemented a cool feature where they remove some of the rng around optional encounters if you're hitting a certain (fast) time. Would be nice to see something like that for Styx

[dry ember]

Yeah. I mean it was definitely doable.

[agile prism]

@west totem the art i did in #fan-works ngl took me like 6 hours? so either work on one for WAY too long or do more in less detail

[dry ember]

I knew I played badly with rerolls too.

So live and learn.

[smoky wolf]

Post something in feedback channel maybe?

[raw violet]

yeah, 5 is generally doable with a good build

but i guess that's what heat challenges are meant to represent

[agile prism]

I have found that getting the sack is more likely within the first 3 when you do all the non mini-boss ones first

[raw violet]

i've had the opposite experience

[agile prism]

Is this legit or just confirmation bias

[mighty ermine]

opposite

it's just random

[raw violet]

so we are both biased

[smoky wolf]

I've had it in one of the 'elite' rooms like 4 times in a row recently

[dry ember]

Question, how much time do you usually allot for boss fights for TD purposes?

I'm trying to balance between taking shops or farming for gold etc.

[raw violet]

pends on what build i've got going in

[dry ember]

Fair, maybe I'm asking too much with too little info, but any ballpark?

[west totem]

@agile prism He boolin' tho

[dry ember]

Mainly for Elysium

[raw violet]

probably 1 minute

with high risk of hitting 0

[inland pebble]

The first route in Styx is always not sack.

[dry ember]

Ok. That's way faster than my 2:15 estimate haha

[inland pebble]

So obviously, don't pick a mini boss first

[raw violet]

if i have a suboptimal build

1-2 minutes, i should say

most of the time, i have no choice

elysium is a place where whatever time i can get is what i want

[dry ember]

Does Chaos room count as a room?

[raw violet]

yes

[inland pebble]

Yes

[raw violet]

i pick miniboss room first cause it's generally less painful than non miniboss rooms

well

it's 2/3 chance of being less painful

if they're weighted equally

wait, is that right? there are 3 minibosses?

[dry ember]

There is one particular room in Styx that is painful, the one with gorgon heads, rats, satyrs, etc that spawn almost continually

[raw violet]

whichever one isn't tiny vermin

[inland pebble]

But, if you leave the 2 mini boss rooms for later, there's 25% chance that it's a sack = not facing a boss fight

[dry ember]

Actual mini bosses are ok enough

[raw violet]

but i would still rather fight a boss than the general end rooms

[dry ember]

That room is my bane.

[mighty ermine]

the bosses are faster

i prefer them vastly

[west totem]

Is tiny rat mini boss or Megaboss

[inland pebble]

Mini

[mighty ermine]

but tiny vermin? yeah i

i don't like that

[fallen mirage]

Are we talking about Styx? :donotwant

[raw violet]

but not tiny vermin

[dry ember]

The pot head mini boss is a joke

[raw violet]

i didn't even think about that on my 32 heat run

if i got tiny vermin, i woulda rage quit

[mighty ermine]

i get that tiny vermin is supposed to be a Funny Moment with its appearance and danger juxtaposition but like

i just dread running into it

[dry ember]

Why is tiny vermin so bad at high heat?

[mighty ermine]

i don't wanna do that man

[dry ember]

It's just time consuming to kill

[mighty ermine]

i don't wanna waste all that time on a tiny rat

[inland pebble]

Because it's tiny

[dry ember]

So TD is a thing

[fallen mirage]

In case it hasn't been said, you're eligible to get sack from the 7th chamber on

[inland pebble]

And super fast

[dry ember]

But otherwise it's ok for me.

[raw violet]

tiny vermin basically is not just beefy but also has no real telegraphed attack

[inland pebble]

2 of the worst combo to face with

[raw violet]

meaning you just take hits at random

[inland pebble]

Truth

[mighty ermine]

and randomly burrows

serving no purpose other than repositioning itself and wasting your time

[dry ember]

The little rat gives me anxiety time wise

[fallen mirage]

hey now

[raw violet]

it's a huge time sink if you have TD

[fallen mirage]

sometimes it burrows so it can do AoE damage when it surfaces

[raw violet]

on top of it

if you have TD

[mighty ermine]

ok fair

wasting time AND potentially hurting me too

[dry ember]

Yeah that's the biggest concern for me

[raw violet]

and if you decide to go without TD, to get to 32 heat, you've probably got a lot of other things making tiny vermin way worse

[mighty ermine]

tiny vermin with +100% hard labor

no telegraph

[dry ember]

TD1

[mighty ermine]

no THANK YOU

[raw violet]

just eats DDs for breakfast

or your SD if you're into that

[fallen mirage]

I know speedrunning is a little controversial here but Tiny Vermin is basically a death sentence for Fresh File runs, unless you have double-edge Merciful End

[inland pebble]

More like it eats Zag, mutiple times.

[raw violet]

yeah, i watched roy just rage when he got tiny vermin on one of his runs

[fiery light]

LOL

SHHH

[raw violet]

it was funny to me, tbf

[fiery light]

Its just back breaking

Unfortunately

[raw violet]

which is probably the best you can hope out of that kind of situation

[fiery light]

In FF its basically an auto loss unless you have absurd damage

[dry ember]

Ok you are actually hard core speedrunning

[fiery light]

I dont mind difficult fights

Obviously

[raw violet]

even if you do, you're not get a top time

[dry ember]

Makes sense you are pushing Hermes so hard

Haha

[fiery light]

This is meant to be a challenging

Encounter

Yeah LOL

#FreeHermes

[dry ember]

Well good luck to you mate

[fiery light]

But i just wish that

TV had abit more feeedback on attack and vuln states

It just feels like a dps scramble abit too much for my tastes

[dry ember]

In hindsight it's a small change but big reward for the speedrunning community

[fiery light]

Oh for hermes?

Yeah

It genuinely effects nearly no one

But could be substantial for us

[dry ember]

Yeah sorry I derailed the TV talk

[fiery light]

I know its alot to ask

But i genuinely would really appreciate it if its at least looked at

[fallen mirage]

It's locked behind all the gods, I assume for story purposes. I'm not sure how to get around that honestly

[fiery light]

Yeah

[raw violet]

i never really thought about it, cause i've been mostly lucky in that i don't encounter TV or i do on lower heats with good dps builds

[fallen mirage]

Unless they plan on implementing a "story-free" mode that just unlocks the entire pool

[fiery light]

Did we try hell mode?

Btw

[raw violet]

but that encounter is pretty bad when heat gets turned up

[fallen mirage]

I don't think it will matter, I don't see any "or Hell Mode" in the lua files

[fiery light]

Ah true

Hell mode is just good for stopping survive rooms and other small time saves i guess?

[fallen mirage]

Yeah, it lets you turn off survival rooms, makes boss shields shorter, makes your shield not pop up when you take 1/3 damage

But also makes everything have more hp and spawn faster

spawn more**

[fiery light]

Perhaps a story free mode that unlocks on your account when you have at least a save file with a hades clear on it

Might be the best way to handle it

[inland pebble]

Supergaint: write that down! Write that down

[raw violet]

im no developer but that seems like the most simple workaround

but maybe it's not actually that simple

[fiery light]

Honestly the main reason why Id like this change specifically ironically isnt just about hermes

[fallen mirage]

spoiler, @raw violet it is

[fiery light]

Its that you have an automatic athena dash in room 1

And your pool is dio posei athena ares

[raw violet]

i make no assumptions about things i don't know

[fallen mirage]

All of the boon generation is handled in lua scripts, they can just have a second one that removes the requirements, at the most simple level

It wouldn't be the prettiest solution, but it would be easy enough.

[raw violet]

a third file option for hermes mode

[fallen mirage]

"Enable Hermes mode to replace the Athena boon in the 1st room with a Hermes boon"

I like that idea

[fiery light]

I mean in a perfect world

There would be a speed run "choose your build" thing

But obviously thats asking alot

[fallen mirage]

That would also kind of defeat the purpose of speedrunning Hades

[fiery light]

Exactly.

[fallen mirage]

It would turn every category into any-heat, which is just "memorize the inputs and do them fast"

[fiery light]

Thats why i genuinely believe that adding hermes to runs 1-3 not only causes basically 0 issues for 99% of players

But expands thecpossibilities greatly for speedrunners

This isnt a discussion even on balance such as Merc End or whatever

This is just a routing thjng that almost no player will be able to go out of their way to experience

Except for those who are explicitly doing it

[raw violet]

you guys would know, does merciless end actually require a deflect or does it just require an input that can cause deflect?

cause it feels like the latter

[fallen mirage]

It's the latter

[fiery light]

Latter

[raw violet]

that's what i thought

[fallen mirage]

Which is why it's busted af

[fiery light]

^

It might be remotely fair if it was the other way

LOL

I cant believe aphro ares and athena ares are in the same game

MonkaS

[opal bay]

actually regarding the heat run, you can do consistently 32, but it takes a lot of skill I say and only some people seem to be able to do it

[fallen mirage]

Ares attack + Athena Dash = ez mode
AA + AD + Impending Doom = super ez mode
AA + AD + ID + Hermes Dashes = facetank Hades in under a minute

[fiery light]

Yeah I know a few of those maniacs

[raw violet]

i've been messing with merciless end builds on fist over the last couple weeks and haven't been able to match my times with other dps builds and noticed you guys started running those builds

[fiery light]

Nerfing merc end is literally catering to speed runners

So i know its likely not to happen

[raw violet]

so i figured it was not as the despcription read

[fiery light]

But perhaps we can agree some duos and boons deserve buffs

[raw violet]

#bufflightningrod

[fallen mirage]

current wr holder literally sells boons that can give him lightning rod

[fiery light]

Curse of Longing might literally be worse than both of its components LOL

[fallen mirage]

specifically because they give him access to lightning rod

[fiery light]

Like

Sea Storm is a meme

But at least the dream is there

Yknow

[fallen mirage]

But at least it's a good meme

[fiery light]

Oh yeah

Its hella fun

Just not when TV exists

:^

I honestly might treat TV like Asterius

And not do elite styx chambers unless i got dps

[fallen mirage]

non-elite Styx chambers hurt me more than Tiny Vermin

so many traps

too much poison

[fiery light]

Fair

Man

I love elysium and tartarus alot

Asphodel gets kinda annoying at points but its fine

Styx just feels bad alot of the time to shennagains

I love the concept of it being all strengeners

And you have to weigh risk reward

But genuinely it just feels like its meant to cheese sometimes

And esp after a long road to there pn FF its genuine feels bad

Obviously biased on that take

But id love a no TV on first run rule

But thats hopinh for alot LOL

[umbral lagoon]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/554057222926106628/712910844756754452/20200520213144_1.jpg

ugh i'm back

gonna risk the second link

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/554057222926106628/712910824917827584/20200520224019_1.jpg

ok finally

consecutive Killing Freeze hades runs yay

I got auto-silenced by the bot for link spam. Just two links. Spam.

😢

On a separate note, I really, really like Fated Persuasion.

It's probably my favorite mirror ability now.

But it's very expensive.

[cunning urchin]

Yeah, Fated Persuasion is very nice.

[smoky wolf]

I find it's a tough choice between persuasion and authority, which probably means they're well-balanced

Although the increasing reroll cost is rough

[naive tusk]

Unhealthy Fixation in chamber 7 💗
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/710856989416226886/712927443463438386/HADES.png

Guess I'm getting Heartbreak Flourish then

[raw violet]

I think persuasion could use a little help

Spicy early game legendary

For spicy ambrosia

[naive tusk]

1st time it ever happens. I still have no experience with a giggling dad so here's hoping I finally see that in action myself

[umbral lagoon]

When I get more knowledgeable I'll probably write up something about why imo Persuasion > Authority. Super convinced but still want to test it more.

It really might just be a playstyle thing.

Authority seems to be a 1-D gimmick - re-roll until you get the God or Hammer you want.

Persuasion is super versatile - I can re-roll until I get Attack, Cast, Special, Secondaries, etc.

Moreover it works for those Wells of Charon. I can buy health then re-roll and buy Death Defiance.

[lapis matrix]

Persuasion costs more I suppose

Which balances it out

It also gets 5 instead of 10 stacks when starting out

[umbral lagoon]

Persuasion to me is putting some trust in the balance of the RNG and just changing the finer details of my build.

Can't count how many times it saved me from absolutely useless boons.

I'd rather get rid of useless boons than re-roll for optimal ones.

And re-rolling gods doesn't guarantee good boons.

I ❤️ Persuasion.

[cunning urchin]

Key rooms with Persuasion have a lot more value than with Authority.

[umbral lagoon]

Yes~!

That too.

1 Persuasion is more effective in context than 1 Authority.

Since you are re-rolling 3 things.

Not one.

[cunning urchin]

Just rerolling Hermes boons alone if you don't use them for anything else is way better than Authority.

[umbral lagoon]

Yup, re-rolled for dashes.

Cause Hermes has some useless things too.

I don't care about speed boosts after dash.

The dash is enough.

(for example)

Authority if you are a YouTuber who needs to make videos focusing on specific builds.

Persuasion if you want to enjoy game.

[cunning urchin]

I get more consistent builds with keepsakes and persuasion.

[umbral lagoon]

That's the thing though - is that specific type of consistency that relevant?

If you are willing to forego your choice of gods

or the order of things you get

then being patient with Persuasion actually gets you very efficient builds.

I guess it is efficiency vs. effectiveness.

[lapis matrix]

I suppose I should switch out to persuasion

[umbral lagoon]

Though efficiency leads to effectiveness.

[lapis matrix]

After I max out Authority

[umbral lagoon]

But effectiveness doesn't imply efficiency.

For example, you could have a sick build with some useless stuff, which is effective.

But it might not be efficient in terms of money or or boons pulling their weight.

[naive tusk]

OMG Hearing Theseus and Asterius both being charmed is

[umbral lagoon]

And you might be stuck in that RNG hell for a while

[naive tusk]

"I am smitten" 👌

[umbral lagoon]

Just mentioning this to explain my idea.

I really care about efficiency and all the boons doing something.

And don't care about any particular build - I just use persuasion to make them work together as much as possible.

[raw violet]

i would argue that's why you like persuasion more

[umbral lagoon]

Yeah, it's definitely just my opinion.

[cunning urchin]

I really see very little value in Authority.

[umbral lagoon]

The example was somewhat pragmatic.

[raw violet]

but i like authority more cause i'm searching for specific and complicated builds

[naive tusk]

Theseus is zig zagging around now, shooting around. I guess Charm messed his route up

[raw violet]

which is a different form of efficiency, i suppose

[umbral lagoon]

I feel like I have enough intelligence to use Persuasion to make builds work even if they aren't centered around some idea that is crafted by Authority.

[raw violet]

it does lack the actual perk control

[umbral lagoon]

So many encounters and chances to get the boons you want anyway, just be patient.

[naive tusk]

OMG Asterius 1-shot Theseus with his wandering spin attack

[raw violet]

but perk control is negated by just rerolling another room into the same god

[umbral lagoon]

How I see the game is that most gods have amazing boons.

[raw violet]

but i do think they both have their uses

[umbral lagoon]

So really I just need to avoid awful combinations.

[cunning urchin]

The odds of rerolling into anything specific are awfully low with Authority.

[umbral lagoon]

And I'll win as long as I avoid those RNG traps.

Yup, and the odds of re-rolling into something good for Persuasion is high.

3x the rolls!

Yay!

kekw

[cunning urchin]

I guess you can reroll Dionysus or Poseidon rooms on Malphon for example to get some value out of it.

[raw violet]

i'm less likely to roll a merciful end build in tartarus with persuasion than i am with authority

conversely

i'm less likely to roll an artemis crit build with chaos boons with authority than persuasion

[cunning urchin]

Hmm. You might have a point about that.

[raw violet]

if you just want to be flexible with whatever the game throws at you, yeah, persuasion is probs better

[umbral lagoon]

For me, I don't see why those specific builds are that important.

[raw violet]

but if you're going for duos and legendaries, authority gives you a lot more control and freedom

[umbral lagoon]

There are plenty of similar builds replacing artemis or ares that still clap.

You can still get legendaries just by picking normally though, but duos will be harder.

[raw violet]

cause it's fun to experiment with high tier boons?

[umbral lagoon]

Legendaries are not that difficult to get.

Just keep getting boons from the same gods when you have the chance.

[raw violet]

and the sooner you get them, the more game you can use as your playground

[umbral lagoon]

It'll take until Styx though.

[cunning urchin]

Personally I like making sure I get exactly the attack and dash I want. That's easier with persuasion.

[umbral lagoon]

Lol, with Chiron Aspect the game is a playground as soon as I get Special +4.

And literally any special boon.

Heh.

[raw violet]

persuasion is vastly better, if all you need are specific core boons

[umbral lagoon]

Yup.

Basically what I think too.

You can also re-roll Chaos.

Which is VERY fun.

And also protects you from being screwed.

While making your build OP.

And giving you casts!

There are literally more situations you can use Persuasion in.

If you could re-roll gods in the boon pick menu, then Authority might stand a chance.

But you can't.

Too bad you can't re-roll Hammer loool

[cunning urchin]

I might try Authority the next few 32-heat runs, but I'll need some more Darkness to make it worthwhile.

[umbral lagoon]

Could you imagine?

[raw violet]

builds are important the higher heat you go

to a degree

[umbral lagoon]

Are there any outstandingly OP authority builds though?

[raw violet]

all of them

[umbral lagoon]

It comes to that.

Then couldn't I just approximate them with persuasion?

If there are so many.

Unless you want like

everything to be two gods or something

[raw violet]

scintillating feast/ice wine/cold fusion is not gonna be easy with persuasion

a cast build with fully loaded, also not easy

[umbral lagoon]

Those are just duos though right?

[cunning urchin]

Well, with Authority I might not get the exact attack and dash I want (or not get it early), but getting e.g. Merciful End early would make a pretty big difference.

[umbral lagoon]

I might have gotten lucky with Merciful End in that run I linked here

but I just see so many opportunities

[raw violet]

i started with persuasion in all my runs and thought the same thing

and once i switched, i never looked back

[cunning urchin]

You want all the overpowered boons you can get your hands on on high heat.

[raw violet]

except for some cases where i got like spreadfire hammer on first drop and could force one artemis boon

but sometimes, you still get screwed by chaos

high heat can be tricky because not only do you want specific boons

but you also want worthless boons

so you can hope to sell later

i didn't think that would matter that much but it made a huge impact on the builds i was able to make/force

[umbral lagoon]

If you are going for streaks, I can see that Authority is probably the way to go.

But I'm still not convinced otherwise.

[cunning urchin]

I keep getting only 1~3 boons in Tartarus. That really hurts.

[umbral lagoon]

Cause I think you can make hybrid builds that are still as strong as specific ones.

[raw violet]

yeah, my runs were like that too

ended up leaving tartarus most of the time with only 1-2 boons

[cunning urchin]

Yeah.

[umbral lagoon]

I just do most of my boon collection in Asphodel, tbh.

I go for Chaos and resources in Tartarus.

[cunning urchin]

2~3 chambers before the Furies and I'm praying a boon appears, so I don't have to sell my 1 attack boon.

[raw violet]

which is mostly frustrating since my lower heat runs seem like they just jacked all of my good rng

[cunning urchin]

That's been my 32-heat life lol.

[raw violet]

if you had authority, you can just force a god room

[umbral lagoon]

Persuasion really is a long con.

[cunning urchin]

Yeah.

[raw violet]

you just have to pay attention to the door color

[umbral lagoon]

It might just feel like bad RNG cause it's more difficult.

You're under pressure to be stronger for a longer period of time.

[raw violet]

that is a fair statement

[umbral lagoon]

I guess that's probably a better indicator then.

High heat, use Authority, just because that's the balance of the game.

You are too weak at first to do anything.

And you'll die if you don't use Authority.

[raw violet]

but i did many many runs and was unable to accomplish what i could many times previously

[umbral lagoon]

I think that's just bad luck.

Or you had amazing luck before.

[raw violet]

that's what i said

[cunning urchin]

You can make it through 32-heat Tartarus with 0 boons and all DDs, but that's gonna be tough.

[raw violet]

there's just a lot more rng to deal with in high heat

there are certainly builds that are more favorable for reliability

requiring only one good core boon

[cunning urchin]

Enemy RNG has a lot more impact, too.

[raw violet]

but then it hurts your time

[umbral lagoon]

When I see DeGrand or other players use Authority though, it always seems like bad RNG.

[raw violet]

also that

[umbral lagoon]

It seems like beginning RNG.

They usually settle for something slightly less optimal.

I guess what I'm saying is

theoretically authority might work but is it really as effective as you say?

[cunning urchin]

I had a room of duplicating big-club-thingies with slow aura in my last run that took a lot of my HP.

[umbral lagoon]

What if it's just not enough to get your correct build and you are screwed anyway?

You have like 10 rolls total right?

[raw violet]

10 + whatever keys

you can say the exact same thing about persuasion though

both are at the mercy of rng

[umbral lagoon]

I don't know about that. I still think persuasion is consistently effective even in high heat.

The problem is if you can make it all the way through.

Cause of deaths.

[raw violet]

deaths are pretty tied to your build

much of the game has an inverse difficulty curve relative to your dps

[cunning urchin]

Also last run I rerolled Hermes 3 times, and he was like, "Do you want these 3 common boons?"

[umbral lagoon]

You have to play really conservatively with persuasion, and take your chances to get the best cumulative reward.

If you play like you want a specific build, persuasion will punish you.

Well, in any case, this is why I said that I need to do more tests.

I'm going to keep grinding heat until I get to 20+

with persuasion only

[raw violet]

i think we've established that authority is what you want if you want a specific build

i find heat 1-20 trivial compared to 32, just due to the pact options you have to start taking

[cunning urchin]

I've been using Persuasion up to 20 without any problems. It's only now at 32 that I look into changing my strategies.

Yeah, I agree with that.

[raw violet]

i definitely think there's a place for persuasion at 32 though

i'm not doubting that

[cunning urchin]

14+ or something gets a bit more interesting, below that is easy mode.

[umbral lagoon]

Persuasion should really mitigate some risks in terms of difficulty.

I think there's more to difficulty than just dps.

[cunning urchin]

There is, but DPS is big factor.

[raw violet]

if things die before they can hit you, you've effectively nullified like...5 of the pacts

[cunning urchin]

^ that's why low heat feels trivial.

TD2 is just free heat for me unless I stack a lot of other pacts onto it.

[umbral lagoon]

Yeah, heat below 20 is really easy. I'm still thinking about higher heat.

Right now I'm playing aroudn 16 and still half asleep while playing.

[cunning urchin]

FO2 is the same.

[raw violet]

TD2 is a reward for not having to take something like jury summons

or calisthenics

[umbral lagoon]

I find that I get DPS mostly from persuasion since I can focus on exactly what I need to be stronger.

But I guess God choice becomes much more important later.

Again, balance of the game.

Some duos are just much stronger, I guess.

[raw violet]

or even underworld customs

[cunning urchin]

And actually getting to see boons at all.

[umbral lagoon]

Honestly, I don't even have a choice for some of the boons cause of hell mode.

I usually end up just increasing the defaults cause I don't want to learn new things.

Or maybe the speedup one.

[naive tusk]

Didn't get Heartbreak Flourish but still charmed foes left and right. Super safe run too
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/710856989416226886/712948335207776337/HADES.png

[cunning urchin]

Convenience Fee is free too until everything hits for +160~200% damage etc. etc.

[raw violet]

FO2 is just the default at this point

[umbral lagoon]

Which one is that again?

[raw violet]

forced overtime

the speed

[umbral lagoon]

Ah, right.

Yeah it's that one and the boss update ones that I use to do high ten's in heat.

[raw violet]

i consider those mostly free heat

[umbral lagoon]

I still have to try runs higher than those.

Cause again, don't want to learn some of the enemy updates yet.

[raw violet]

i didn't think adding on the other stuff would change the game as much as it did, but it did

[umbral lagoon]

I think it makes it ridiculously harder.

But I realized I don't change my playstyle, I just play better.

There are hundreds of mistakes I make so improvement into the 20's should be easy.

Not sure about 30'

[raw violet]

even benefits package at sub 20 heat isn't a big deal

[umbral lagoon]

and 40's though.

[cunning urchin]

I think the first time I realized how difficult 32 heat was was when I was stacking up pacts and saw that I still need to add more and nothing seems to move that counter up by much at all.

[umbral lagoon]

Just don't overthink it tbh

it's mostly just luck and playing very well anyway

what else can you do

[raw violet]

it's pretty heavy rng

but some minor adjustments can make a big difference

[cunning urchin]

I think it's more skill than RNG, to be honest.

[raw violet]

my opinion may change as i do more 32 runs

[cunning urchin]

Except those Inferno Bombers in Asphodel whose bombs I literally cannot even see before they go off.

[umbral lagoon]

I think I need to learn more about the enemy AI.

They are consistent so those invisible things you mention definitely can be predicted.

Though FOV might be a problem.

[cunning urchin]

You can't predict anything when it's that crowded and there's smoke everywhere.

[raw violet]

does bp scale with heat?

cause that's what it feels like

probably not

[cunning urchin]

When they no-startup throw three bombs all around you and that bomber you just killed, who of course also drops a bomb, you're going to take that 30-something damage from one of those bombs.

does bp scale with heat?
No, but they get extra HP etc. too.

So essentially yes.

I might have to turn down Jury Summons at least to 1~2 instead of 3.

[raw violet]

jury summons is the worst

[cunning urchin]

Makes you think Asphodel was some place in hell or something.

[raw violet]

i avoid anything that can make a run longer if I take TD

but it's not really an option if i'm dying to TD a lot

i suppose

[cunning urchin]

Yeah, but I want to avoid Approval Process. Ugh.

I guess on 1 it's okay.

[versed bloom]

There's a weird thing I've noticed

Entirely unrelated to boons

Whenever I make it to the second, third and fourth biomes

There's a slight, like 10% damage increase

It's very subtle

But it's not boon related

[cunning urchin]

Approval Process 2 can completely ruin a run when some God decides to replace your boons and you can't say no . . .

[naive tusk]

I got it! I got the combo I wanted to try!

As well as a nuke build, which wasn't planned but I welcome it!

[smoky wolf]

I feel like I should just enable FO2 and learn to use that as my new baseline gameplay

Also I might finally start dodging hades spin-attacks since I always dash too early for those

[cunning urchin]

You don't have to. But it won't hurt to try it.

Well, it won't hurt for long . . . probably.

[naive tusk]

Here's the railgun doom thingy I wanted to try out. A shame Dire Misfortune wasn't Epic but oh well.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/710856989416226886/712961180808773712/HADES2.png

As well as a fortuitous nuke build derp Eris why you not with me here
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/710856989416226886/712961157131927592/HADES.png

My doom was dealing 450 damage approximately in case anyone is curious to know

[cunning urchin]

Nice!

[raw violet]

jesus that special damage

[cunning urchin]

Who would downvote typographic consistency?

[mossy badge]

Hi all, new here, not sure if this is the best place for this, on my first playthrough got all the way through and died at the ||2nd stage of Hades Boss fight|| keen to keep trying and go further.

It would be nice feature to see how far I have taken each weapon so I don't have to try and remember which one hasn't gotten the titan blood or diamond etc resource while I am trying to get more.

Maybe there is something beyond that I missing ?

[raw violet]

There’ll be something you unlock that will show you

It may or may not be super streamlined but there is a way

[mossy badge]

Thanks @raw violet
Glad to know will keep fighting on really enjoying the game!

[raw violet]

It’ll be after your first clear so you’re almost there

[mossy breach]

does this work or its the penalty reduced?

https://imgur.com/uT2YPpc

very first chaos gate with guan yu

[naive tusk]

Penalty reduced, if I remember correctly.

[mossy breach]

then ill take the risk

29 max life, here i go

[cunning urchin]

Evil link spamming people.

[mossy breach]

lol, zag is stuck in the spinning guan yu pose

[cunning urchin]

That happens with the bow and the shield, too.

[viscid vale]

done my 12th successful run in a row yeaaaaa also my fav thing is now Achilles spear

[tame apex]

What is the "pin" for in the select menu? Like you can select few skills and it will put a kind of pointer on those, but I have no idea what it means

[smoky wolf]

Select menu?

[mossy breach]

you pin the boons to highlight them in the score image when you finish the run

[smoky wolf]

Oh that, yeah it's just for getting a screenshot to show off your build I think.

[tame apex]

Hmmmm, alright. I thought it was like eventually for boosting stuff, ok : ')

[cunning urchin]

You get more if you beat him more often.

(more Titan Blood )

It makes sense thematically that he and the Furies drop Titan Blood.

[viscid vale]

i wanted to buy Titan Blood, i clicked, but then yayyy i had bought the wrong item ! xD does it only happen to me in the Styx / last Charon shop ? It's been twice the case, i click on one thing and get another

[cunning urchin]

Hasn't happened to me.

[viscid vale]

otherwise my build was unstoppable, i had like 5 dashes, +20% speed, continuous spear attack and zeus lightning at every dash (+ zeus revenge damage and lightning + hangover cast damage), i was dashing like a madman and destroying everything in my path

first time the Styx rooms felt somewhat...easy, even if i didn't do all

[cunning urchin]

That sounds like a fun run.

[viscid vale]

i think now spear is my clear favorite altho i'm not uber fan of its aspects. I mean, Achilles looks and is nice but special remains kinda slow

it was super fun in the end yea

i just wish i didn't misclick and got double titan blood, but its no big deal, i don't use my titan blood for now...

at least not massively

i'd say for now for me it's spear (achilles aspect) > everything

i also like the zagreus sword,|| excalibur|| not too bad

then, fists, rail, bow and...shield

[cinder forge]

I feel like shield is by far the easiest to use... however not often very fun

[viscid vale]

i really like the spear now that ive changed my keybinds, its just a shame i don't get to use all types of attacks cause the special remains a little slow to me, same with the spin, so i don't use them that often against bosses

its mostly cast, attack, dash strike, dash

[cunning urchin]

Isn't Zag Aspect special a lot faster?

I think I haven't leveled that one yet.

[viscid vale]

shield , idk, i did a chaos shield run expecting to marvel at its style and i was fed up in the end, it felt meh to throw shields for nothing and having to bash everyone repeatedly with these little unepic bashes...then there's the defensive stance which is a little too powerful for defence and too slow for offense

oh, right, maybe i should level up zags spear

i just love achilles spear look and the special move it offers

its just too bad its a little slow but maybe i'm not using the perfect keybinds yet

zeus shield is ok but I felt bad having to cower behind my defensive stance and just wait til my special was done killing the mobs for me

[cunning urchin]

Nemesis, Zeus, Zag spear, Hestia and the other Exagryph aspect are what's left for me to level up, I think.

[viscid vale]

i really want to farm gems, i need 1030 gems to buy the falling petals decoration and royal tombs

i only have like 200

[cunning urchin]

Throw shields for "nothing"?

[viscid vale]

i wasn't ultra impressed during my run with the shields throw, but probably i had not a good build

it did very little

and since you're desarmed when you throw them.. its punishing

[cunning urchin]

You can clear an entire wave with 1-2 specials.

Put Doom on it.

[viscid vale]

i was expecting more of chaos shield, dk. I throw 4 shields and get basically wrecked

probably its my fault

[real nebula]

you'd probably like zeus shield

or whichever one it is that spins while thrown

[viscid vale]

i've already done my first clear ever with zeus

yea its z

[cunning urchin]

Divine Strike or Dash, get Merciful End.

[viscid vale]

my first clear was while testing zeus

spear was the last weapon i tried, i didn't like it at all, but since i changed my keybinds it's much better

altho not a uber fan of the spin

[real nebula]

spin is way too slow without the hammer upgrade for me

[viscid vale]

spin is basically : do the ballerina : get wrecked

[cunning urchin]

Your choice of course, but I really think you should give Chaos Aspect another chance.

[real nebula]

great for rooms with a bunch of tiny mobs, otherwise eh

[viscid vale]

i will at some point, same with bow, i want to like it, but i mostly like special and i feel let down by how non powerful it is

but it may be just that i didn't explore enough

[real nebula]

I'd suggest going down chaos and trying for a +special damage. that with a +% damage boon for it is nice for chaos shield

[cunning urchin]

Yeah, bow special is eh.

[viscid vale]

bow special is ultra satisfying to watch but ...otherwise it sucks, i realized it after a few runs

[stoic thicket]

Bow special is kinda nice with the Chiron aspect and if you have like a Poseidon special.

[cunning urchin]

Doom beats everything on Chaos special for DPS.

[viscid vale]

i boosted it like crazy, i was firing tons of arrows at high speed and still my bow special was subpar

[real nebula]

bow special is a shotgun, if you think of it like that other than a ranged option its actually not too bad

get right next to something and special, and even without boons it'll do 200-300 damage each time

[stoic thicket]

I just recently had my first run with the Spread Fire Rail. Good lord.

[viscid vale]

rail is good but i guess i still need to get used to how non- antiquity it feels

bombing the small rooms is so fun tho

especially when it powers you up

[stoic thicket]

The spread fire Hammer upgrade is so good.

[cunning urchin]

A Volley from the bow won't do 200-300 damage without boons. It's 10 damage per arrow.

[real nebula]

I recently had a run with flurry fire. not very strong but damn is it fun to RATATATAT

[viscid vale]

haha

[real nebula]

well the point is it does high damage as a shotgun

[cunning urchin]

Point-blank Volley is okay if they don't have armor and there's no one else close-by.

You could put Doom on it and just spread that and kite. But that's still gonna be slow.

[mossy breach]

Hammer upgrades for the volley not being very good doesnt help either

extra arrows is good but thats it

[real nebula]

gonna try aspect of chiron and see if that helps the special any

well, it's certainly much more fun lmao

[heady kindle]

so, I am missing something or is Vengeful Mood extremely hard to get? 3 runs where I had Curse of Vengeance/Pain/Agony + Lightning Strike/Heaven's Vengeance and went through 4-6 zeus/ares offers and never got it.

[wintry plume]

Can someone tell me how to avoid or at least how to get minimum damage from Meg's rockets? For all weapons in general

[mossy breach]

by meg rockets you mean the bullet hell, or the circles on the floor?

[smoky wolf]

@heady kindle legendaries are fickle and sometimes you just don't get them. I don't know what stage you're at in the game but you can increase your chance somewhat by using one of the mirror abilities

[wintry plume]

the bullets

[heady kindle]

I have that maxed out, but people said the rarity increasing is as good for getting duo/legendaries as the duo/legendary one

[smoky wolf]

I got offered it without even realising I had the prerequisites yesterday

[heady kindle]

but I basically just want that only 2 boons can fufill the requirements

and I don't need 3

ares or zeus vengeance + ares of zeus boon that is on the list from wiki

right?

[smoky wolf]

Yeah I used the wiki when I was fishing for it and I think I got it first run. I was using the duo boosting mirror upgrade for definite at that point

[heady kindle]

ok, will try

I am still not sure how does the rarity increasing thing interact with boons of higher rarity

should probably just read the code 😛

[mossy breach]

@wintry plume they are easier to dodge if you move far away from her, Also most attacks and specials can destroy the projectiles

[wintry plume]

ok thank you

[dry ember]

Can deflected inferno bombs still hurt you?

I feel like it does.

[real nebula]

yes

[mystic vale]

Not as badly as deflected words can hurt Zag's feelings, though. 😦

[viscid vale]

ok i'm trying a zeus aspect run @cunning urchin and its more effective than what i remembered, altho i still find it a bit less fun than some other weapons against bosses

but its not that bad, especially with Poseidon's visual effects, which I'm very fond of !

[real nebula]

do yall go stygian or infernal soul? I usually go infernal but I went stygian for the prophecy and I kinda like it more

[mystic vale]

I prefer Stygian. When I cast a spell, it's because I'm launching into a horde of enemies and/or lava I don't want to walk into. Guess what I don't want to have to do to cast a spell again?

[viscid vale]

stygian

stygian is far more comfortable, for me. I don't have to worry about getting back my stones, I can stay where I am and annoy my foes. Of course if I wanted to go as fast as possible I'd have to change my strategy and then maybe I'd go for infernal

[unkempt pagoda]

stygian, don't have to manage all of my casts

[mystic vale]

I'd only want Infernal if I were going for Lightning Rod from the start, I think.

[unkempt pagoda]

if you manage to get a good auto reload, or get more casts, it outpaces infernal soul by quite a bit

[real nebula]

yeah I'm going stygian from now on then lol. I think only for hera bow I'll go infernal just for the burst

[mighty ermine]

lightning rod is one of the most underwhelming duos anyways so i can't say it's ever missed with stygian

[raw violet]

the only thing i miss about infernal when running stygian is debuffing both theseus and minotaur at the same time

life's difficult that way, i suppose

[viscid vale]

lol

[dusky hull]

Is taking Fully Loaded still only possible after taking True Shot?

[unkempt pagoda]

no, but

you need to have dual cast (which requires any core artemis boon) and exit wounds (which requires dual cast)

then you meet the prereqs for fully loaded

[dusky hull]

Both of them?

Oh, right.

[mighty ermine]

i don't think exit wounds requires dual cast actually

i've gotten it without it recently

[dusky hull]

I just remember that Dual Cast or Exit Wounds were only available after taking True Shot.

At least people complained about that.

[naive tusk]

Exit Wounds requires either True Shot or Dual Shot for it to appear

[upbeat dove]

Hey guys. How do i unlock Aspect of Arthur? It's lastt sword's unlock.

[mighty ermine]

check pins in #h1-story-discussion !

the method to unlock is in there

[upbeat dove]

Thanks

found it!

[naive tusk]

Enemy shield analyzed

[mighty ermine]

i see em up ahead. let's rock and roll

[upbeat dove]

And one more question. What conditions are better to use for start?

[mighty ermine]

like for the mirror of night?

[upbeat dove]

for pact of punishment

[mystic vale]

I highly recommend Dark Rege....

Oh, usually EM 1 is popular. I like Benefits Package on 2-5 Heat.

[mighty ermine]

oh, very subjective. depends on your playstyle e.g. tight deadline is basically free if you already go quickly

[mystic vale]

Damage Control is not a big deal for most weapons.

Convenience Fee doesn't affect the most expensive item in Charon's final shop, so it's not really a big bother otherwise usually.

If you're careful, Heightened Security is no biggie.

[raw violet]

forced overtime, extreme measures, and tight deadline can get you through a lot of heat levels

they do take a little adjustment

but once you do, they're kinda free

[mystic vale]

I don't find Calisthenics Programme 1 to be a big deal, but opinions differ there. And I'm sure I'd notice it with more points.

[mighty ermine]

middle management isn't too bad either, aside from the skullcrusher and megagorgon sometimes which takes more adjusting to than the others

[mystic vale]

I'll have to try that one some time. For the prophecy, if nothing else. :p

[raw violet]

yeah, first time i got the megagorgon fight with MM was rough

[mighty ermine]

it's kind of a nightmare while running ruthless if hermes hasn't given extra dashes yet

[viscid vale]

megagorgon is a nightmare for me

[mighty ermine]

the shockwave window to dash through is extraordinarily tight

[mystic vale]

Must be a mega upgrade, 'cause I normally consider that one of the tamest rooms in the game.

[mighty ermine]

yeah, it buffs both the gorgon and the skullcrusher

in different ways

dunno if you care about that being spoiled but

it sucks sometimes

[raw violet]

it's such a mechanically different fight

[mighty ermine]

right

normally it's just teaching you not to stand still for too long

that's pretty much the main lesson

MM is just

okay have fun with all this

[raw violet]

dodge, duck, dip, dive, and dodge

ez

[mystic vale]

I'mma knock Jury Duty off my prophecy list. With Aspect of Caledfwich. :p

That's what I need, Super Nova with that.

Hrrm, 57% to Special or Dash Strike...?

DS is -28 life, 3 encounters, Special is +trap damage for 4.

[tepid ridge]

Which floor + weapon?

[mystic vale]

Caledfwich (the big sword, spoiler-free name) and it was Tartarus. I went with the DS.

[unkempt pagoda]

you can do spoilers here if it relates to gameplay

[real nebula]

Rocket bomb + cluster bomb

what a mess

[mystic vale]

Yes, I can. But I don't like to.

[unkempt pagoda]

oki

[real nebula]

ok what a busted combo lol, rocket and cluster bomb with deflect special is just mindless special spam

[proven robin]

Ha ha ha ha! I love it.

[desert nacelle]

what is best for sword?

[lament coral]

which one?

[desert nacelle]

default one

[lament coral]

oof

probably either double dash or world splitter

[stoic thicket]

Okay, so I've got a single Duo Boon left to get (Ares + Aphrodite), what would be a good build around that? I'm thinking Chaos shield with Ares Special and Aphro either Cast or Dash. Then get like Athena or Artemis or some such stuffs.

[mystic vale]

Heartbreak Strike isn't terrible with the shield either.

Consider if you're bull-rushing into things, they'll be Weak, then if you're facing the wrong way or can't defend because you just threw your shield, you take less damage.

[faint vigil]

i have a question is it more efficient to raise heat 1 lvl at a time to get the most items out of it?

[cunning urchin]

From the pins:

For example: You haven't claimed bounties from Heat level 3 but you cleared a run with 5 Heat. Bounties from 3 Heat will be claimed instead.

So you'll get all the bounties either way.

[faint vigil]

interesting

so instead of just 1 titan blood ill get like 3

[desert nacelle]

no

with 3 walkthough yes

[snow copper]

You only get the bounties for the base heat level you're at, even if you go over.

[faint vigil]

ok

i miss understood

i only get the bounty from the lowest heat if i skip heta

meaning if i do heat 5 i gotta beat it twice to get heat 3 and 4 bounty?

[snow copper]

Ya, and then a third time to get the heat 5 bounty

[faint vigil]

okay i get it now thanks

[mystic vale]

Does Charged Throw not appear when using Chaos aspect?

[mossy breach]

yep, cannot appear with chaos or zeus aspects

[desert nacelle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/712749399700406294/713077483632853083/unknown.png

the hell was that run

[snow copper]

Jesus, I wish it would show the attack damage for that

[mystic vale]

Ah hah. Will have to go Zagreus for the Prophecy then. 😦

[desert nacelle]

1.2k crit

with cast and weak on him

[dry ember]

https://imgur.com/aMlzfRb

I almost made it

The 32 heat dream

So close yet so far

@cunning urchin you beat 32 yet?

[raw violet]

bwahaha, the Robbed Thanatos title is oddly satisfying

[mighty ermine]

it really is

[cunning urchin]

No.

[raw violet]

probably a consolation prize for showing up during my fastest run, i guess

[desert nacelle]

who combines with zeus?

🤔

[pliant palm]

https://prnt.sc/sl85u5 1st 20 heat attempt (best shield heat was 7 before), was honestly easy, beside EM3 Heroes with Forced Overtime (made me lose 2 DD), it's both hard and makes my game lag a bit, sadly. Shield OP !

[cunning urchin]

Congrats!

[pliant palm]

Thanks c:

[desert nacelle]

@pliant palm good boy 🥳

[pliant palm]

32 heat soon, maybe x)

[dry ember]

Good luck!

[desert nacelle]

good seed

[dry ember]

That's my goal too. I was close today. But Daddy Hades sent me home zzz

[pliant palm]

Oh, damn :c

[cunning urchin]

What were your pacts?

[pliant palm]

With shield or another weapon ?

[dry ember]

I posted screenshot above

Like right before yours

[pliant palm]

Lemme see

[cunning urchin]

Typing "bow" would have been shorter.

[pliant palm]

Was a pretty nice run

Hunter dash with bow OP

[desert nacelle]

crit twin explosive shot

[dry ember]

I'm on phone so can't remember every pact but Max Damage, EM, FO, TD, MM, BP.

A few points here and there between Lasting Consequences and Convenience Fee to make 32

[raw violet]

i think that's the way to do it

[dry ember]

Damage Control can be done but not on bow

[raw violet]

the alternative to not taking TD is more brutal than it needs to be

[cunning urchin]

TD2 or 1?

[raw violet]

2

[dry ember]

TD2

[raw violet]

but that's only provided you can swing dps enough early

[cunning urchin]

BP is a lot worse for melee, right now.

[raw violet]

i was having too much trouble on shield and hit TD too often so i swapped it

[dry ember]

BP with Numbskull and speed buff eat half my health bar in 3s