oh
#h1-builds-and-combat
flat brook
i'd still say hunting blades since it's so hard to get the most hits out of blizzard shot
flat brook
but at the same time it's much more versatile, if you dont get ice wine, scint feast + splitting bolt is nutty as well
and if you get neither there's still dio's legendary
while with hunting blades, if you somehow don't get the duo, it's gonna be hard
cunning urchin
Could try to get Lightning Rod too when you have Hunting Blades. That has some synergy with that.
flat brook
do ppl usually use infernal soul with hunting blades?
i can't stand having to pick up bloodstones so i always use stygian soul
kind fiber
Yeah, I'd rather have Hermes recall than lightning rod
turbid needle
Stygian Soul is almost directly superior with all of Trippy Shot, Slicing Shot, and Crystal Beam.
kind fiber
I'd much rather have infernal soul, stygian soul is pretty bad without extra casts
flat brook
i mean, even if you get unlucky with chaos you have a shot at hermes' 50% extra dmg legendary
which is basically half an extra cast
kind fiber
50% extra damage? what are you talking about?
I know about the % cast speed one, are you referring to that?
turbid needle
Bad News, Hermes's Stygian Legendary that increases Cast damage taken by enemies by 50% if they don't have a Bloodstone lodged in them.
flat brook
and since those 3 shots don't lodge bloodstones, it's always a 50% damage increase
kind fiber
Okay, so its something I don't see because I don't use stygian soul
flat brook
yeah, i only started seeing it when i started doing cast builds
kind fiber
Its basically just a generic 50% damage increase until you get a second cast as you'll never hit a target that already has a bloodstone in them
turbid needle
Or if you use a Cast that doesn't lodge, like Slicing Shot or Trippy Shot.
flat brook
the real value is when you're going for dio/demeter/ares casts
kind fiber
I mean, its the same value until your cast count hits 2
kind fiber
Sure, the real value is when you high roll and get additional casts, and are also running any of the casts that don't lodge, but you don't really need to do that. I'm just saying you don't really need to use a specific cast because it doesn't lodge, you could but theres no imperative to do so
neon fiber
oh hey i didn't know that he had different boons depending on which cast talent you had on
that's pretty neat
flat brook
i wish flurry cast could appear if you had 2+ casts with stygian
only thing missing for me
flat brook
how to get a dash run going: get ares' legendary at chamber 7 
https://i.imgur.com/WOECmh0.jpg
turbid needle
Bad News, Hermes's Stygian Legendary that increases Cast damage taken by enemies by 50% if they don't have a Bloodstone lodged in them.
@turbid needle
weak rivet
ouch
turbid needle
Yeah, it's dummy thicc if you get a decent non-lodging Cast and a second Bloodstone.
weak rivet
hades but every time you cast it makes a gunshot sound
rich cedar
Just had a perfect artemis run
and still didnt get enough boons for the legendary
lul
tribal ridge
just had a run where demeter told zag that persephone is her daughter. I talked to hades and he told me to shut up and stop asking
turbid needle
Should take this conversation to #h1-story-discussion
static moon
Ahhhhh just finished my first 32 heat run!!!!!!
I wanted the first clear to be Zag's aspect so it took me a while 😂 😂
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EW4knmvWAAAL7qc?format=jpg&name=large
tribal ridge
Cerberus collar instead of skelly tooth?
static moon
YUP IT SOMEHOW WORKED OUT 😂 😂 😂
flat brook
congrats! that's a lot of kiss of styxes
beating 32 heat with stubborn defiance is quite a feat
tribal ridge
Wait what?
static moon
so I was like ok gonna abuse that so when i die I recover 100% health
so that's how this run was won
tribal ridge
How do you do that?
turbid needle
Double Approval Process. 
static moon
stubborn defiance works differently from death defiance so you can buy kiss of styxes (for 20 encounters restores 10% more health on death)
YEah RNG made me try this.... a lotta... times...
but I was too weak to fiddle with other stats and I was like gonna torture myself insetad
proud storm
maxed out approval process? are you well??
static moon
😄 alive...
flat brook
stubborn defiance and 2x approval process
tribal ridge
What weapon?
flat brook
should've just played 40 heat
static moon
Zag's sword
tribal ridge
Aspect?
turbid needle
And you cleared it so fast, too, that's insane.
static moon
no trust me I have this weird thing this is easier.... tbh... I know sounds insane but everyone has their poison I guess
turbid needle
Well done, really.
static moon
no aspect! basic 5level
turbid needle
I knew the increased movement would help.
flat brook
did you only take 1 hammer as well?
static moon
that too! helped on survival but also I just wanted to use main sword for self-satisfactory lore reasons
yeah i found that sword and hammer when I was trying this with approval process was bad cuz i would sometimes get the life slash(?) the one whre it reduces %60 and heals for every hit
but that with some boss damages were to dang painful so I avoided Hammer rooms
tribal ridge
I thought life slash was good
static moon
it is good!
I like it when I build towards it
but this since I'm so limited on choices
I wanted a bigger health pool
flat brook
if you only dash attack with the blade, cursed slash is terrible, since it for some reason applies only to normal attacks
static moon
RIGHT?! for that I am genuinely confused why that is..
Dash attack uses attack boons....
turbid needle
Same with Shadow Slash.
static moon
but the hammer be like 'imma head out'
turbid needle
You could use either Life Stealer (or whatever it's called) or Shadow Slash with Double Edge for super mean Nemesis builds instead of Super/Double Nova, but nooo.
tribal ridge
Can you spawn any of the companions when fighting big boss man?
turbid needle
Bouldy and Skelly.
flat brook
literally only double edge works with sword dash strike
static moon
^
flat brook
maybe that's why i dont really like sword
tribal ridge
Ohhh ok
flat brook
hammer upgrades are so whack
turbid needle
I managed to make World Splitter work on 20 Heat after gitting gud.
But if you can get Double Edge dashing is strictly better.
static moon
I don't look into other people's builds mostly, I try to just go with what I feel like it but I really like all skills and aspects on a bases level and my unique choice of punishment came from the things I've tried with banging my head over the last week for 😂
flat brook
if they don't want fated persuasion to work with hammers, it'd be nice if there was a daedalus keepsake that lets you reroll hammers
static moon
yeah i hope so too
I normally main(?) persuasion than authority but because of me trying to avoid hammers I had to do fated authority to avoid hammer rooms
tribal ridge
I've been really afraid to switch to "God Mode". What happens if I actually choose it?
static moon
I heard that not much changes you just get buffed the more your die in a run or something?
turbid needle
Start with 20% DR, goes up upon death to 80, resets/lowers upon clearing.
tribal ridge
Ok good, because the last thing I want to do is make the game easier.
static moon
and that's for the duration of the run?
turbid needle
Yup.
static moon
i see i see 😄
flat brook
also, what's the icon on the right of tight deadline?
when you open the boon menu mid-run/on the post-run screen?
turbid needle
Hell Mode-exclusive Heat option.
turbid needle
I think it's called Personal Responsibility?
Removes the occasional free shield you get if something bodies you for half your HP.
static moon
^
turbid needle
Yup.
static moon
i didn't wanna start the gem grind so I've made hell mode did a few runs with it and gonna for it after launch I think 😂
tribal ridge
I'm tempted to start another because I'm 80 runs in and the people are starting to stop saying unique things
static moon
well sometimes u gotta gem farm and buy some upgrades to get side quests and dialogue but im guessing you've already done those 😂
flat brook
maybe i'll start and cheat engine all resources back in so i don't need to regrind
torpid turret
can always grab someone elses save file
torpid turret
@errant narwhal Hey when you get the chance would you mind showing me where I can find other images like that in the files?
gilded lily
how do I post a screenshot?
turbid needle
Need an image link.
gilded lily
there we go! So, this is for people who said they didn't like close range malphon builds. this one was crazy fun. I tanked all the hits from hades, used 2 dds and still melted him
I had explosive upper. man did it do crazy damage.
torpid turret
The famed heroic flurry cast
That is the most fun boon in the game, you can't change my mind
gilded lily
oh, it was fun
It took like... 4 rooms for me to realize how fast it was. I would cast and then just stand there, expecting it to last longer, haha
gilded lily
'I wanna see
torpid turret
I think zues is the fastest cast in the game, so it just gets broken fast
turbid needle
Yes, they fly off the stage after the first bounce insanely fast. 
gilded lily
easy, just get a second legendary boon from hermes and have them return automatically hahaha!
turbid needle
He's only got one Legendary per Cast talent now, right?
turbid needle
Greater Recall and Bad News?
gilded lily
who's boon adds the most damage for a special?
turbid needle
Aphrodite.
gilded lily
nice. Someone said that athena's was the worst. I actually didn't know it was that much of a difference
turbid needle
Athena's is not the worst.
Artemis adds the lowest percentage on both Attack and Special but she gives a crit chance, and outside massively stacking another damage-up (usually Aphrodite) Artemis outdamages everyone when you crit.
I think Athena is tied with Demeter, and both of them are very solid.
It's not like Posiedon's attack boon which offers the least damage because it expects you to supplement it with wall damage.
Okay.
Going into Asphodel with Exit Wounds and no Cast while carrying Overflowing Cup...
On Stygian Soul.
Wish me luck.
(and Zeus Attack)
Can I get a shaking eyes reaction, please?
Epic Auto Reload.
Heroic Storm Lightning? Really, Eurydice?
kind fiber
On average Artemis boons pay out less than Aphrodite's boons and other boons. However, thats just a baseline comparison between Artemis and Aphro boons, Artemis scales better with other sources of damage increases since the extra damage from crits is multiplicative
turbid needle
Scintillating Feast from Charon, thanks babe.
torpid turret
Artemis damage output is insane, 7 seconds Thesueus/Minotaur fights lmao
turbid needle
She doesn't appreciate my selling True Shot for Trippy Shot shenanigans.
kind fiber
She does have some powerful duos
turbid needle
I got Epic Dual Shot, we could do this.
Guess who bilked a DD with an invisible attack?
RIP the dream.
neon fiber
f
neon fiber
Wait invisible attack? Is that from that one armored bonuses pact modifier?
turbid needle
EM Theseus bombs, yes.
neon fiber
Did she give you your DD back
turbid needle
Haven't finished the branch yet.
She's basically giving me nothing. 
I get Sure Footing, that's it.
I guess I do have Heightened Security.
neon fiber
f
turbid needle
At least Hermes gave me Bad News.
turbid needle
Oooohh, gonna hit 7 Olympians in this Nemesis run.
Wow, Chaos, Flayed Lunge, really?
naive laurel
I Got a dd bodied By a flying longspear yesterday
turbid needle
Damage and Vortex Benefits?
naive laurel
he was still flying when the screen "freeze" and Zag came back
turbid needle
No.
naive laurel
well...he flew somehow, So Not sure
low max health run Anyways
that room also had at least 50 flamwheels
Yes, 50
gilded lily
What should I pick for my bow (first daedelus)? I'm not that good with the bow
Explosive shot
Sniper shot
Twin shot
turbid needle
What's your Aspect?
gilded lily
crit chance... is that zags?
turbid needle
Yes, and Twin Shot.
turbid needle
It doubles your damage output from Attack at the cost of a bit of range.
Artemis Attack, stack the crit chance higher, and if you can get Aphrodite you can get Heart Rend for monster crits.
gilded lily
:D, here's hoping, thanks again
well poo. I got artemis, with the lowest attack bonus possible
haha
great start
turbid needle
You've got Twin Shot and meaty crit chance now, the percentage will come later.
delicate nimbus
There are no right answers usually
sniper shot lets you do the big bow charge up attacks if you like those
it makes that really effective
cunning urchin
Interesting. Zag Aspect + Heartbreak Strike and Zag Aspect + Deadly Strike are both 1.8x damage. I thought Artemis would be weaker because it's additive, but they turn out the same.
gilded lily
is that counting the crit increase?
turbid needle
Ran into Bruiser Chariots. I take back what I said about Breaching Cross, it's Malphon's second-best Hammer after Long Knuckle (third after Explosive Upper on Dem).
turbid needle
Longer attack range (not including Dash, unfortunately) and 20% Attack boost.
cunning urchin
Rolling Knuckle is really good too. 125 base damage in a combo.
Er.
Concentrated Knuckle.
Rolling Knuckle is the dash strike one. That's great too.
turbid needle
If it carried through your combo (as long as the singular number above an enemy went up) I would take it.
cunning urchin
It's still a 67% base damage increase to your combo.
Since it's flat damage increase though, it scales with your % bonuses.
no hammer + Athena = 105
Long Knuckle + Athena = 120
Concentrated Knuckle + Athena = 175
gilded lily
On the heart seeker bow, I have twin shot. What's good for the second daedalus:
chain shot
perfect shot
flurry shot
I'm thinking flurry, but i know perfect shot can technically do more if I can get the power shot each time
cunning urchin
Flurry Shot lets you get shots off at times when Power Shot would be too slow.
gilded lily
hmmm... tough choice for sure
cunning urchin
For me personally, Flurry Shot is easily the best bow upgrade.
turbid needle
Chain or Flurry.
cunning urchin
(I also suck with the bow.)
turbid needle
Both schools of thought are equally viable. I like Chain for its better CC.
unkempt pagoda
flurry would be amazing single target damage, the better boss killer
cunning urchin
Long Knuckle + Zeus = 140. Hmm, interesting.
turbid needle
Yeah, Zeus is nutty on Malphon.
cunning urchin
I like Athena more, can just face tank everything with Zag Aspect.
Concentrated Knuckle + Zeus is 175, same as Athena.
odd quarry
Also can confirm Zeus is really fun on the rail too. Zeus Attack + Flurry Fire + Artemis Support Fire is just effects spam
cunning urchin
Yeah, I always get Lightning Strike on Exagryph.
I get Divine Strike on Malphon and then basically just go for Artemis to get crits on my attack, Hunter Dash, Deadly Reversal, maybe Deadly Flourish.
torpid turret
Now that I've told myself bouldy looks like he's wearing a toupee I can't unsee it
cunning urchin
Any info anywhere on how levels affect boons?
torpid turret
Not sure, sorry.
But did anyone see Haelian's video where he got a level 30 boon lmao
dense locust
Is that the poseidon dash build someone was talking about last night? @torpid turret
lament coral
gotta hit that Poseidon duo and then eat every pom along the way
cunning urchin
Does Excalibur's aura do anything besides damage reduction?
turbid needle
Slows enemy projectiles and disables trap triggers/magma.
cunning urchin
Thank you.
Hmmm. I think I'll go for Heartbreak Strike and Sweet Nectar, and then Artemis or Athena.
dense locust
whoa wait
You can dash special out into the middle of magma and take no damage
?
while standing within the aura of course
pliant palm
Oh btw guys, does most people play with controller or keyboard + mouse ?
Was wondering cause the game recommend to use a controller (which I did at 1st), but it felt better with a kb + m, for me at least
cunning urchin
If it works better for you, stick with that.
pliant palm
I know I know, it's more curiosity than anything x)
pliant palm
Hmm
Ah right the armor
Yeah, would defo help
Especially for Elysium
Armored enemies take forever to die there x)
cunning urchin
Vs Hydra too, in Styx, vs Hades. Well, really just makes everything faster lol.
cunning urchin
1488 crit in Asphodel. Ouch.
cunning urchin
- Ouch!!
turbid needle
Go for 3!
cunning urchin
Just got rare Hide Breaker. Might be able to.
Unfortunately no, but Hades dropped food.
cunning urchin
That was way too much work. https://imgur.com/a/tSXFBeJ
Don't even bother trying to hit teleporting Gorgon heads with that cast.
Didn't get Hunting Blades until just before Hades, and the cast was terrible to work with without that. Black Metal is a double-edged blade because the AoE increase means it keeps bouncing off pillars and walls.
cunning urchin
Hades phase 1 the blade rift could barely keep up with him, phase 2 was perfectly fine though.
dense locust
@pliant palm Controller player here, but i've found that it's worth trying both early on because some people really struggle when playing one, and then the flourish after switching
cunning urchin
This is actually the only Supergiant Game I play on pad.
No particular reason either, just felt like it.
dense locust
It might be I just value movement accuracy over attack, or that there are also less room for error in pressing the wrong key, but I find it much better suited to how I play the game. Anyone someone is new to the game, I always encourage them to try both ways if they can
cunning urchin
I think even with Hunting Blades early on, you'll have difficulty hitting things. The inital range is really short, and it's slow.
dense locust
It certainly doesn't have anything on ice wine
pliant palm
Am I the only one having a hard time hutting the skulls in Hades fight with the rail ?
cunning urchin
You can deflect them back at him.
pliant palm
Hmm
cunning urchin
He points the spear at you before he casts, so it's easy to deflect them when you've seen it enough times.
pliant palm
But you need something that deflects for that x)
neon fiber
I’ve found that athena dash is one of the best options if you don’t mind sacrificing some dps for survivability
When it comes to deflects anyway
cunning urchin
Yeah, I use that a lot.
neon fiber
Athena attack is also a good option it relies on your weapon being able to make either wide or quick attacks, so not all weapons work with it regardless of how amusing deflecting projectiles with a single arrow can be anyway
pliant palm
Its just the the hitbox when firing seems weird, maybe because its floating
grave compass
So how do you submit a bug report im having the same issue again with god keepsakes
Im just trting to get cold fusion for my prophecy 😭
Its either a problem with demeter specifically (as both times its been her keepsake), asphodel, or hermes
I used the demeter keepsake befire asphodel, entered and got a hermes boon, now looking at an athena boon - no option for demeter despite her supposed to being my first boon
Its making this last duo really hard to get 😅
neon fiber
Yeah, hermes can break keepsakes lol
Afaik if you reroll a boon you ought to get the desired result anyway
grave compass
I have persuasion not authority unfortunely - as otherwise i seem to get really unlucky getting static discharge
I just dont think I'm ever getting this last duo
lament coral
@grave compass do you see a 1 on your keepsake?
gloomy ermine
So, I've cleared a heat 2 run now, and I've bought all the weapons I can, but I don't yet know how to unlock the aspects.
Very anxious to spend all my titan blood.
grave compass
No but i actually just managed to get a demeter boon at the end of asphodel so may just be it worked, but got priority below some others
I got Hermes, darkness, zues/athena double room, then later on demeter
But ive definitely had it before where the keepsake hasnt worked and ive gotten other boons in asphodel but not the one i have a keepsake for
neon fiber
Weird
Aspects should unlock automatically after your next expedition to the underworld after unlocking exagryph
Have you regularly been talking to skelly and the other NPCs?
lament coral
some aspects have other conditions
gloomy ermine
I have been.
I've been trying to find out how to unlock them ever since I got the first game clear, and haven't found anything on it that explains what I'm not doing that I should be doing.
There seems to be literally no clear conveyance of what I have to do to get any weapon aspect access and spend this titan blood, and it's been driving me absolutely insane.
I read something that said a pedestal can be called up that is in skelly's room once you have all the weapons unlocked; After I read this, I force unlocked all the weapons.
But that's it.
cunning urchin
Heroic Greatest Reflex really speeds up runs.
tame apex
I am now about to play for the third consecutive day (I already played for 7 hours during the last two days) and something is already bothering me, even though I already really like this game.
Right now, I don’t want to play for hours, just like a small half an hour to smash enemies and also because I am really curious about this new area I discovered (right after the first boss).
But I hesitate to play because I know I’ll have to do this whole first fight area first and I am not even sure to get to the second area.
Plus, I saw a map that showed me I kind of “checked” this first zone. So why not doing a checkpoint and giving me choices of ameliorations I could get before hitting the second zone? (Because we are supposed to get upgrades thanks to the Gods we meet during the fights in the first fight area).
So I know at some point this thing of doing it all over again will get me bored and I am already getting to it.
Btw, do you guys know how to be able to share files or how to write in the “feedbacks” channel? I prepared a little text file with comments on different points of the game (and also about the french translation) but I don’t know where to share this file or where to copy-past what I wrote :’)
cunning urchin
Check the pinned messages in #hades-feedback.
dense locust
@grave compass if you press f10 in game it brings up a bug report
tame apex
Got it :)! Thanks
naive laurel
Heroic Greatest Reflex really speeds up runs.
@cunning urchin
TD's must, reroll into greatest reflex or bust.
dense locust
@tame apex also in regards to the long comment, there are two options given when you are in the menu button in regards to quiiting: If you've started any chamber and have taken damage in that that chamber, it will give you the option to "GIve up", which will restart the run at the very beginning but keep the "seed" intact; if you access the menu after you've beat the chamber, or before you've taken damage, it will give you the "Quit game" option, which will let you quit and come back at that exact chamber (putting you at the beginning of the chamber if you didn't beat it yet). But as far as traditional checkpoints that you can return to if you die, that goes against the very nature of this genre of game (rogue-lite), where you get one shot at going through to the end and must restart if you die (but you get stronger and gain things to make yourself stronger each run)
proud storm
@tame apex please share your localization related feedback in #hades-localization i cant wait to read more about it
grave compass
Just met extreme conditions hydra for the first time...
Even with god mode and using my chaos shield i lost every death defiance
Too much lava, plus lava spitters, Megs extreme measures made barely any change to my gameplay so wasnt expecting hydra to be so bad
naive laurel
Oh my, for me all 3 are actually pretty equal in matter of difficulty increase
but yes, the lava is hard to get used to for sure, not to menion the camera is less zoomed in, so the dash distance feels different
However, if u can get a build that's decent against the 2nd impervious phase, u'll be fine
dense locust
lava is one of the main reasons to put off taking heightened security as long as possible
for EM hydra, I recommened going in a loop and damaging as you go
but don't stay still and be careful of wave attacks and head slam attacks
lament coral
EM hydra is definitely the biggest difficulty increase
dense locust
It really depends
sometimes the build comes online after furies, so they can be really painful
lament coral
furies are fine, and I'd argue that Theseus and the bull are easier thanks to Theseus being a non-unit while in the chariot
dense locust
but that's not always true
lament coral
Alecto is definitely the hardest
Tis is the easiest, with Meg somewhere in the middle
dense locust
its all dependent on weapon, aspect, boons you've received at that point, the hammers you were given by then
but yeah
tis is def the easiest
lament coral
m-m-m-murder is all she does
dense locust
her supporting sister is the wild card
lament coral
I mean, that's just because their moves deal insane amounts of damage
grave compass
I do have one question btw - is there a way to like, reset god mode?
Im not suoer confident to try for a full run without, especially with elysium sometimes being so overwhelming, but id also like to be able to cap it otherwise im taking 50% less damage
lament coral
Tis' support moves do nothing
dense locust
yeah exactly, and they can catch you off guard, where as tis just does the same 2-3 things over and over
lament coral
it's ridiculous, really
dense locust
good question
lament coral
@grave compass it caps at 80%, you can't cap it at a lower point manually
dense locust
that seems like a good point for feedback
lament coral
you can turn it off during a run, I believe
dense locust
easing into no god mode seems logical
grave compass
Ah okay - yeah i dont know how to post in feedback yet
But yeah - 30% resistance can be fun, but getting above 50% nd youre forgetting how hard the game can be
I can imagine going from 80% to no god mode can shock the system
dense locust
oh read the pinned message at the top there
the 6th point in Greg's message tells you what you have to do before you can post
grave compass
Awesome thanks
dense locust
But if you're confused still, find the channel #bot-commands and type "?rank Early Access" in it
grave compass
Yeah but a lot of those were whilst learning the game, and others are hades fights
blazing mulch
OMG I see my Bouldy brother 😄
flat brook
funny how tis helping out EM meg/alecto is way harder than tis herself
that attack that covers the entire screen is my doom
cunning urchin
Whoosh. https://imgur.com/a/SkXlw0u
flat brook
i see that battie was very useful that run
cunning urchin
Couldn't have done it without Battie.
Fraud streak though because I gave up a run yesterday that I knew was running out of time, and apparently that doesn't end the streak.
flat brook
giving up just rewinds to before you started, you lose all darkness/nectars/stuff and get to play with the same seed again
cunning urchin
I'll take that then. It's a real streak. That terrible run with the bow never happened. 
naive laurel
BOLDY BROTHERS NEED TO ASSEMBLE AND GIVE US 100% AMBIGUITY BONUS
wintry tusk
punch
cunning urchin
Athena keepsake for Divine Strike > Artemis keepsake for Hunter Dash > Hermes keepsake for the rest of the run is consistently fast.
For Zag Aspect Melphon.
flat brook
why hermes keepsake?
wintry tusk
well, its permanent dodge that stacks with anything, if you are fast enough that is
Though, last area hermes only works in the final room, not the small encounters as you are reaching the sack
flat brook
most ppl, myself included, think hermes/than's keepsakes are best used as "for the whole run" keepsakes
only elysium will net you like, 10% dodge chance?
wintry tusk
dodge chance is pure RNG in the end, but the higher it is the more stupid you become
especially with boons
cunning urchin
Less for the dodge than the movement speed, and I don't know what else I could pick to speed things up at that point. Maybe Nyx's keepsake.
But the extra dodge doesn't hurt.
flat brook
imo the fastest keepsakes would be 1.artemis (take hunter dash or deadly strike if she didn't offer you) > take any rare/epic attack boon in tartarus. 2.your attack boon god keepsake. 3.possibly a god that duos with your attack boon
also TIL lambent plume increases movement speed
thought it was only dodge
naive laurel
plume kinda self-fuels itself
u get more movespeed, makes room clearing faster
more dodge, allows more reckless fast room clear
cunning urchin
Can't recklessly face tank without Divine Strike, though. That's why I get Athena first.
naive laurel
Well....dash strike bonus is also very good for TD, for obvious reasons
And by "face tank" usually i'd mean dmg reduction stacking w/ crused slash
Otherwise, imo it's more "ninja"
cunning urchin
Hmm. Fair enough.
flat brook
yeah, i find that just standing and attacking with the fists is very low dps, constantly dash striking is safer and does a lot more damage
hence why hunter dash is great with the fists imo
dense locust
@blazing mulch lol I made this profile pic as a troll against @torpid turret because him and @mint bloom changed their profile the same day so I felt like I needed to out do them, and now I plan on making Touch his own unique bouldy
cunning urchin
I want to try getting Hunter Dash before Divine Strike next run, see if that's faster.
They have nice synergy with Deadly Reversal. Lots of crits.
grave compass
Just tried no god mode - lost to hades with full death defiances
Wasnt a bad build i just think you get punished if you dont have any dash or speed boons from Hermes
I definitely think that his swing is wider than two standard dashes and that cripples me when im using something close range
neon fiber
S’ alright, hades takes a bit getting used to
cunning urchin
@grave compass I always pick Darkness unless I need healing. Darkness is a permanent resource, don't really need the extra coin.
neon fiber
The trick with him is not getting too greedy and keeping an eye on his moves
If you see him about to do the sweep then get the hell out of there asap
Unless you’re using a shield staying close to hades all the time is not entirely advisable
Or Arthur
grave compass
Surprising- i just dont rate 20 darkness
Even if im hunting for darkness i can just buy way mrow than that with 100 coin
Yeah thanks 😁 i was trying to use a special guan yu build but the boons didnt go my way - unfortunately the only real damage i was doing was close range and thats very slow
Even 40 darkness id understand its just that 20 is so low
cunning urchin
Well, I wouldn't complain about it being higher.
I skip most shops unless I really need something or I'm in Styx.
grave compass
Yeah - tbf im still learning the game and getting fights like hades into muscle memory
So in the mean time i quite like building coin to get extra titan blood too
cunning urchin
Yeah, I used to get the coin too.
neon fiber
aaaaa stop giving me ares/artemis trials i’m farming hunting blades
cunning urchin
i just think you get punished if you dont have any dash or speed boons from Hermes
He's a lot harder if you don't have that, so yeah I would try to make that a priority. Dodge or Second Wind are great too.
I find without Second Wind, you want to wait for Greater Call vs Hades; but with Second Wind, you want to just spam your call to keep up Second Wind.
flat brook
i'm starting to think that no duos/legendaries AT ALL can appear during a trial
just had a demeter/dio trial. Excluding ice wine, possible duos/legendaries were cold fusion, scint feast and black out
rerolled on both gods and got none, and i have the duo/leg mirror trait
naive laurel
@grave compass for me, there's a tip for dealing w/ hades spin: move reverse to his direction of advancing spin, or perpendicular
don't even try running directly away if u only got 2-3 dashes, cuz he's catch u on the advancing
cunning urchin
I don't think I've ever seen a Duo Boon in a trial. Not sure about legendaries.
Yeah, dash behind him or to the side.
grave compass
Ill definitely try that actually
Decided no more god mode so just going to have to get used to dying until i learn
Probably gonna do a demeter fists run later which will be the perfect way to test
tepid ridge
Starts you off with about 20% damage resistance and increases it every time you die
soft pine
pffft
tepid ridge
To about 80% after a while. When you win/clear it reduces
grave compass
God mode makes the game easier by incresing zagreus total resistance - then goes up 1% each time you die
If youre learning the game or want to get to other weopons and aspects quickly its really useful - but eventually becomes too overpowered
naive laurel
also, @grave compass the darkness option on sisyphus cannot be better than sheer healing when taking the 80% darkness regen.
so, a full adjustment probably is needed
grave compass
Yeah - thats why i thought just upping to 40 to make it more appealing - even with plus darkness weopon and if you got chaos darkness boost early its just so low
I think most healing stuff is a bit underpowered now anyway - why buy food at charons shop or a well when you buy darkness and get the same result plus extra for your mirror
Recommendations for a demeter fist run btw?
Was think artemis special and dash, maybe athena attack?
naive laurel
demeter both atk and special, no joke
flat brook
artemis attack and aphro special sets you up nicely for heart rend
naive laurel
if no demeter special, get aphro special
wait, isn't that duo called heart rend?
broken resolve iirc is the dmg amp for weakened enemy
flat brook
yup, i messed up lol
grave compass
Both sound fun - done a ton of demeter lately though trying to get cold fusions (finally got it now)
Artemis aphro definitely sounds fun though - aphro special is one of my favourites after using it with chiron bow and the charm boon
grave compass
I guess theres a reason theyre her fists 🤣
mossy breach
Can you imagine demeter wearing those fists
flat brook
that makes me wonder: is zeus good on zeus shield and posi good on posi shield?
earnest ravine
Zeus is fantastic on Zeus shield.
naive laurel
agreed, but for me, i'll prob go dio
mossy breach
i Like athena, it acts like a protective area while you kill other enemies
grave compass
Not a fan of zues shield actually - chaos for me all the way 😁
flat brook
^ definitely
earnest ravine
They're both pretty different weapons, so whatever works for you!
flat brook
i love how chaos is both easy to play and busted lol i feel kinda bad after playing
mossy breach
and chaos itself talking sometimes its a great bonus
flat brook
i wish posi, zeus and demeter would talk to you like chaos does
make even hades trashtalking you on your mistakes with the spear
earnest ravine
They're pretty neat, yeah. Makes me wish I could stand the aspect for that reason alone.
grave compass
Chaos is my favourite of all of them - ive nearly lost a couple runs because i visit too often 🤣
Taking -46% speed in elysium AND met the bull - if i didn't have knockback special I'd have been done
neon fiber
Yeah, gods talking through the aspects would be neat
cunning urchin
Chaos Aspect needs to be unique in that way.
neon fiber
also hades’ aspect needs a buff seriously
soft pine
Chaos Aegis is my fave as well
mossy breach
Some aspects are just meh or dont change the gameplay much, which is why i choose them
flat brook
also hades’ aspect needs a buff seriously
i've been having lots of fun with hades aspect
grave compass
Nemesis sword or hestia rail have that effect for me
Its just normal play with that little bit extra
flat brook
i think if someone finds an optimal way to play, it's one of the best spear aspects
grave compass
Dont have to rethink my strategies
neon fiber
Yes, but the problem with spear spin aspects is that it lets you open to get hit
flat brook
but hades isn't necessarily a spin aspect, you just spin once every 15s to debuff the boss/miniboss
and then you're perma 150% bonus damage
neon fiber
Guan Yu has a way around it in that its spin attack is ranged, but overall unless you get that one hammer upgrade spin moves are generally not that useful
Not to mention most bosses don’t tend to let you have an opening to charge it up, especially the bull and the dull
earnest ravine
Dash spinning makes it feel way better but it's stiill harder to usse than most other specials.
Or if not harder feels like. Clunky?
(i know big joke coming from the Zeus aspect weirdo but I'm right)
flat brook
i've been using it pretty successfully, all bosses let you smack them with the spin at the start of the fight
naive laurel
hades aspect goes from good to trash w/ FO increase, sadly
earnest ravine
It slows down the gameplay in a way other weapons don't.
flat brook
then in these 15s you'll probably mow them down to the point where they stop and become impervious, and during that time you prepare another spin
naive laurel
I think my 32 run on hades aspect i didnt spin once throughout the run
artemis special and ice wine carried
artemis explosive special too
cunning urchin
My favorite at the moment is the Apect of hold down attack and mash dash aka Zag Aspect Malphon.
naive laurel
oh for sure
flat brook
My favorite at the moment is the Apect of hold down attack and mash dash aka Zag Aspect Malphon.
there's two like that, fists and spread fire rail
naive laurel
adding that dash atk into the mix makes holding it down permanent
flat brook
aspect of ice wine and ignore attack/special is nice too, aka every weapon
naive laurel
for that sake, rolling knuckle is the flurry hammer for fist
odd quarry
I’ve been pleasantly surprised by Hestia aspect on the Rail recently. You can basically just play the rail like a one-shot-one-kill sniper rifle lol
naive laurel
hestia is imo for flexibility, and it has a very strong start
u can beat furies w/o any core boon w/ hestia w/ ease
but, it falls off
relying on the sniper shot to fight bull is painful
odd quarry
It does. But it’s still a lot of fun to bombard a group, snipe one of em, reload, then repeat
naive laurel
Yeah, hestia, surprisingly, is best benefited from the same special hammers
which is why eris is still my go-to
but again, I'll have to use both for 32 very soon
cunning urchin
I'd rather have Concentrated Knuckle than Rolling Knuckle. I don't need Rolling Knuckle to cancel combos into dash strike.
naive laurel
consentrated dmg resets after 5th strike nontheless
flat brook
breaching cross + long knuckle is my dream combo
cunning urchin
It's still a lot of damage added.
naive laurel
rolling knuckle basically just makes u able to hold down the atk button and perma stagger
I'll pick it when I got a dash atk bonus dmg option
consentrated knuckle, actually, adds 10 dmg per hit on average, should u always finish 5 hits
cunning urchin
It adds flat damage, so it gets multiplied by whatever % you have on your attack.
naive laurel
Yeah, but 2bh, it's similar in matter of getting more dmg on rail, because getting this hammer upgrade first is better for u to decide what atk bonus u want on fist
since normally, a flat dmg bonus is more preferrable on fist as 15 base dmg is not high.
Good thing is, getting the full bonus is easier than on rail
mossy breach
Is hestia base damage?
cunning urchin
I basically always go for something like this now. Divine Strike + Hunter Dash + Greatest Reflex. https://imgur.com/a/SkXlw0u
naive laurel
yes, it is
oh, I almost never pick athena on special and atk, since I go for big numbers now
cunning urchin
Main damage is from Dash Strikes, then a 4-5 hit combo during recovery.
naive laurel
but it works wonderfully nonetheless, since the % is not bad
Oh, if your main dmg is dash strike
that dash hammer is very important imo
not the breaching cross, that's auto pick
rolling knuckle
u can double dash atk by doing the dash after the added one
instant burstdown, plus u get more dmg on all dash atk as that hammer iirc increases all dash atk dmg, not just the one that's used to end the combo
flat brook
iirc the hammer only increases that dash strike, others are still the same
naive laurel
Hmm, maybe I should look at the file
cunning urchin
Yeah, only the last strike in a combo. It adds 15 damage.
Well, it adds 60% of 25, so that's always 15 damage without crits.
naive laurel
I think that's base dmg too right? Or am I not looking at my past numbers right...
hmmmmm weird
anyways, one adds 40 dmg after 5 atks, 1 adds 50 over the course of 5 strikes, but u have to reset it w/ dash.
So it basically depends on how much u need to save your dashes i guess
naive laurel
iirc yes
dash atk multiplier is much more valued for me rn
but atk is superior should number be the same
cunning urchin
Huh. So with rare Lv.1 Divine Strike and rare Lv.1 Hunting Dash, that's 190 damage for a 5-hit combo with Concentrated Knuckle and 162.9 with Rolling Knuckle.
naive laurel
U did see the base dmg comparison
the difference is if u want dashless atk reset, or u can afford to dash to reset
I'd say tho, once dash atk bonus goes high, they'll match
and it goes higher than normal atk bonus
cunning urchin
I'd need +183% dash strike damage to get 190 damage with Concentrated Knuckle + rare Divine Strike Lv.1.
Er.
naive laurel
i know what u mean
cunning urchin
With Rolling Knuckle + the boon.
naive laurel
but +200% dash strike is not hard to achieve actually, a chaoes can give that along w/ rare hunter's dash lvl 1-2
soft pine
wait, people use Malphon's attack?
cunning urchin
Yeah, I agree. Not arguing, just looking into it.
soft pine
: P
naive laurel
2bh, it's just, in the end, about if we can spare a dash for the sequence reset or not, nothing more imo
so it's actually pretty dependant on what hermes boon u get
greater reflex busted, noted, need to take into suggestions
cunning urchin
What do you mean by "spare" though? That you can't use that dash to dodge?
naive laurel
yeah...kinda
having 1 "spare" dash and 2 are quite a difference
3 and 4 on other hand...not much
cunning urchin
With 15% dodge and 15% attack speed from the Aspect + deflect on attack, I don't have issues with that at all at the heat I'm at.
naive laurel
again, it's a persepctive from FO40%, which is probably neglecting most leeway we can have rn.
cunning urchin
That's the one that ups enemy speed?
earnest ravine
I like having a lot of dashes on 40%, even if I forget them half the time, but I also use a lot of projectile based dashes or like, Dio dash, so when I DO remember them it increases my dps by a lot.
Because I don't have to worry about needing to keep a dash in reserve if they start winding up.
earnest ravine
Sure can, I love it.
But if I need to hold back a dash in case I misjudge an enemy, the more I have for pure damage, the merrier.
flat brook
how unlucky do i have to be to have gotten tiny vermin twice in 3 runs?
earnest ravine
Not at all, that means you get more chance to practise instead of forgetting how the heck it works.
naive laurel
3 times in 3 runs for me
I was screaming, but good thing is, I was either doing crused strike runs, or shield runs
flat brook
consecutively?
naive laurel
both deal w/ it easily
yesd
and iirc, both first elite tunnel
all 3* first elite tunnel
I like taking elite tunnels first because even w/ middle management, it feels easier than normal tunnel final romms
so, making it more likely to give sake in a normal room is what I do
earnest ravine
Elite tunnels are usually better to use up the last summon charges before the final boss, too, while normal tunnels are like "is THIS the last wave? is THIS where I should us my 'I don't have to deal with this' button? is this worth it?" and then they're all dead and you still have like 3 charges left.
flat brook
it's not that tiny vermin is hard, it just takes an ungodly amount of time if he decides to teleport uncontrollably
like he just did
earnest ravine
Very rude.
naive laurel
tiny vermin is TD's bane
soft pine
this one run I was running posi dash build and I knocked tiny vermin into a narrow gap between the wall and some rubble and he got ping-ponged to death.
and it's not the teleport that's so bad it's how he dashes up and bites you in the ass before you can react
just gotta keep moving and he's not too bad
flat brook
i mentioned the teleport because he's invulnerable while doing it
so the speed at which you kill him is literally rng
if he decides to teleport everytime you touch him, it takes a loooong time to kill it
making dad fall in love with me because i'm using his spear so well https://i.imgur.com/HVCAUOf.jpg
naive laurel
getting a non-core duo boon not onoy gives tons of gold, but also makes customs almost 2 free heat
Which is, exactly what I'm using rn
Imagine same duo boon getting sold for both tart and elysium, Then shows up in styx
flat brook
aphro starter into erebus aphro in the same room, oof
cunning urchin
Died to getting hit by too many Heightened Security urns. Ow ow ow.
Having had turned that off for a couple runs made me overconfident.
flat brook
not turning heightened security on is a lesson everyone eventually learns
painfully lol
soft pine
dang proximity triggered urns
cunning urchin
I actually like it. I like to think there's always a way to avoid the traps.
flat brook
technically you can avoid the urns by dashing into papa's 80 damage spin
cunning urchin
With 4-5 dashes I would just clear them with Dash Strikes, but I only had 3.
flat brook
didn't know you could be offered less than 3 boons https://i.imgur.com/lvDfHbx.jpg
naive laurel
It's possible
all core boons being occupied, and u get a god that u picked out most of the non-tier-1 boons
imagine, zeus offering u 3 exchanges
now that's pain
cunning urchin
Kinda wish there was a training mode like in fighting games, so I could just set Hades to do the Spin Attack and practice the dash timing lol.
cunning urchin
I think there are some areas around Hades where the hitbox isn't active as long, so you can more easily dash through the spin.
flat brook
finally done with the spear bounties
now i'll never have to touch this weapon ever again
cunning urchin
I guess one way to practice just the boss fight is to quit in Styx right before Hades, load the save game, fight him, then restart the game.
@flat brook congrats!
flat brook
tyty
naive laurel
https://www.twitch.tv/soledad630/clip/SlipperyTallGrassUnSane
Followed by
https://www.twitch.tv/soledad630/clip/GiftedSpikyBarracudaRaccAttack
Thanks to @dense locust reminding me w/ the clip, lul
mossy breach
I just summoned Dusa and hit her with festive fog and she was like "i only wanted to help, prince!"
i feel bad now lol
flat brook
@naive laurel just a fyi: you can actually lolnope and leave the room after activating the trove
but i'm sure it was all calculated
naive laurel
I've, actually, never even tried leaving the room after activating a trove
so, I guess I'm not planning to either, hand slip is hand slip
soft pine
I ain't scared of no troves
flat brook
sometimes i activate a trove and only then see i have no time
zag even has a little dialogue for chickening out lol
naive laurel
Oh I'm calculative, so, u know :p
I even press B MID FIGHT to estimate time and chamber
soft pine
I'm multiplicative. And drunk.
proud storm
TIL dusa comments on you using athena's call specifically
"be careful with that one prince"
flat brook
my finger slipped when i was starting the game and i almost deleted my save 
"be careful with that one prince"
if dusa says so, i shall never again use athena's call
grand patrol
what does she know.... 😱
proud storm
i looked it up and it's a mythology reference
odd quarry
Constantino, neat thing I found out; even if you do delete a save, so long as you close the game and re-open it w/o overwriting that slot, it'll still be there.
torpid turret
@proud storm What's the reference?
tepid ridge
Perseus had Athena’s help to kill Medusa originally. The old stories also hold a lot of lore between Athena’s jealousy of Medusa’s beauty when she was mortal. Athena is the one who cursed Medusa to be a Gorgon in the original stories.
tepid ridge
Ya! The stories are pretty dark but also interesting. Would be interesting to see more about it in game.
flat brook
speedy lawnmower run https://i.imgur.com/P7aeIRE.jpg
even then i couldn't sub-1min hades 
mossy breach
Hera bow is my favourite weapon
https://gfycat.com/untriedgiddycapybara unleash hell! . Also had lightning phalanx so they bounced on enemies
flat brook
that looks fun
torpid turret
Hahaa that's great
soft pine
damn son
soft pine
yeha, that's lightning phalanx
neon fiber
nice
naive tusk
Theseus’ invisible 120 damage rocket bombs are back at it again! But you didn’t stop me, oh no you did not 
proud storm
hera aspect with so many athena casts is like "hera, release the roombas"
mossy breach
I'll try Ares next time, I'll need some extra luck for Hunting blades though. So far the strongest one, in my experience, was full Artemis, and the second one was surprisingly Poseidon+demeter duo cast
flat brook
you should try ice wine/scintillating feast as well
mossy breach
I tried, but got unlucky, ended up with a mess of a build. Funny thing i ended with both boons my next run, but i had another weapon that time 😦
naive laurel
hera + scinitillating feast imo is better than icewine
well, cuz u know, the difficulty of application be negated on hera is not there on icewine
lament coral
icewine is a flat damage buff though
you straight up deal more damage, out the door
naive laurel
Yeah, but what i mean is, hera does not offer icewine much, while it does for feast
hera is, imo, a easier way of application, so make sure the application is not overtly simple while making other aspects better is the way to go, imo
ofc, in current icewine's state....it doesn't matter
mossy breach
Yeah I agree, it doesnt matter if you practically kill everybody with one cast, why use Hera at that point
lament coral
instant delivery
you have to wait for the casts to land, not to mention the length of the cast animation without Hermes' cast speed
with Hera, it's all instant
mossy breach
Ice wine is almost instant though
naive laurel
yep, exactly
This is where hera becomes actually redundant for icewine
trippy shot pairs best for hera cuz of the difficulty of the delivery
w/o hera, ofc
dense locust
Oh boy i love this ice wine talk
I agree that hera makes icewine unncessary, however, on every other weapon and aspect combination, ice wine is by far the strongest and most reliable cast for me
and trippy shot is amazing as well on most builds
But of course you already extensively know my view on ice wine @naive laurel
Obviously getting ice wine is still good due to the added chill and significant damage increase
on hera
but it doesn't give the same power boost as ice wine does on every other aspect
flat brook
i kinda prefer not having ice wine on hera, since it adds a bit of a delay between the shot and the explosion, while normal trippy shot doesn't
it's also more convenient just ditching demeter and going full zeus
naive laurel
Exactly the thing, the boons u can get at each phase is limited, getting certain duo later than planned might ruin a run
plus, zeus on special for bow is also a good addition
mossy breach
Ok i tried Ares and didnt like it, The blades barely touch enemies until you get hunting blades, which i got on the last styx chamber. It was very frustrating until that point. Also got no extra casts whatsoever. Hades almost wreked me but thankfully he stops to cast the beam and thats the moment my blades killed him
flat brook
hunting blades is definitely the biggest upgrade in the game, but you can still go through tart/aspho with just slicing shot, it notably melts the hydra
not getting it until hades is very unlucky though
naive laurel
hydra is lower zoomed, so it's model is actually way bigger than it looks
weak rivet
Just ruined my streak by losing 2 dds to bruiser snakestones yeeee
soft pine
those things are worse than satyrs
naive laurel
worse than hades, yes, I just said it
neon fiber
What does bruiser do? damage on contact?
mossy breach
extra armor i think
naive laurel
tons of extra armor
naive laurel
here comes the benefit of having armor breaking hammers
cunning urchin
I mean Bruiser does nothing when you have Breaching Cross.
naive laurel
ah yeah, but having said hammer usually is not guaranteed
cunning urchin
Yeah. Bit of an exaggeration too.
I find with Concentrated Knuckle between Dash Strikes, I get way better DPS making sure I get a full 5-hit combo after Dash Strikes. Dashing again before the 5th hit hurts my DPS quite a bit. However, I'm not sure if doing just one Dash Strike between 5-hit combos or using up all Dash Strikes is better DPS.
I think when I had Concentrated and Rolling, just holding down the Attack button did the most DPS. Only had that once though.
mossy breach
https://imgur.com/3xyI2FI Decided to farm some darkness
tepid ridge
||and 5 max HP||
spare zealot
took a buttload of damage because of this obnoxious poseidon call control bug >=/
If you poseidon call while performing another action like dashing, you just can't turn during the call.
I've reported it, I'm just salty that I popped DD
I should just, not take poseidon call anymore
Do "survive for $time" chambers ever get harder on higher than ~12 heat? I feel like they're just free reward rooms because you can just run in circles. nothing dictates you have to fight them
If they don't, I want to make a suggestion that they be reworked so that you're forced to actually play the game in those chambers
mossy breach
you still get the money for killing monsters up to a certain amount
spare zealot
mm, thats true
@primal sigil selling away boons is a nice feature in a couple, fairly common cases
- when you're getting your face kicked in and constantly burning cash on healing
- darkness grinding so that you can opt for chaos rather than a boon room and pick up a boon later off of charon. by dumping useless for your build boons you had to grab
and less common:
- Poseidon gave you big catch. Unless you're really into getting house resources, it's a free 450 bucks
Sometimes I will just take an epic boon I don't want to turn it into cash later
naive tusk
Huge Catch and I are BFFs until I finish the codex entries for Chaos' fishes 🎣
And selling it before going into Styx
lavish crow
wait to add, 4) I usually end up selling boons before the last area if I know I'm about to get my teeth kicked in by the final boss: sometimes I'll cash out and buy ||diamonds or blood in Styx|| and call it a day if the build is bad enough
untold quiver
@spare zealot Yeah I do "Farm runs" on 0 heat without spending and going for coin rooms constantly just to buy the big item and see if I can clock out hades with like half the usual upgrades
spare zealot
And then Charon just offers a heart, 25 darkness and some food
But hey if you have a couple nice chaos darkness boons that's not too bad
Oh you mean in Styx
Waiting on more things to spend diamond on tbh. Dunno if they give you any more things to spend it on after game mechanics and ||freeing Orpheus and Sisyphus||
torpid turret
||Music Stand||
gilded lily
I feel like I'm doing something wrong; I can't seem to summon Fidi
anyone else have this issue
lament coral
do you have charges left? Are you trying to summon her during a specific boss fight?
gilded lily
I mean ever. Like, I have never gotten it to summon
I use the other ones all the time, but fidi? Never once has it summoned
lament coral
does Zag say anything when you spam the button?
gilded lily
"can't do that right now"
lament coral
report it in-game via F10
gilded lily
will do. I thought maybe it's because I'm still working on dusa's story, but... I should be able to use it right out of the gate, right?
lament coral
if you have charges left, are in combat, and aren't fighting Hades, it should work
gilded lily
Has anyone combined malphon's rolling knuckle with concentrated knuckle? Does it only extend the combo by 1 or does it allow the combo to continue indefinitely?
unkempt pagoda
the max combo is 5 iirc, so the extra attack doesn't count
i should test that again though
gilded lily
oof, good to know.
I have a choice for dionysus:
epic drunken flourish
rare trippy shot
rare premium vintage
unkempt pagoda
build?
gilded lily
I should still go with trippy shot ya?
unkempt pagoda
on instinct, trippy shot
is this your first boon?
if not, premium vintage could be good assuming you have the upgraded nectar
gilded lily
malphon, aspect of demeter. Only have epic aphro strike, artemis epic all attacks can crit
no, it's like my 3rd. Ya, nectar is upgraded
unkempt pagoda
the extra nectar from premium counts as upgraded
gilded lily
didn't know that... makes it tough
unkempt pagoda
imo trippy wouldn't work well with the typical gameplay loop of dem fists, especially since you're cruising towards heart rend
so might as well have a chance to buff yourself now
gilded lily
sounds good. I always struggle to not pick the highest rarity boon. OCD in me
I also have 60% movement speed from hermes... I'm not sure if that's a good thing anymore. I'm so fast I tend to hurt myself more than avoid danger
unkempt pagoda
i tend to dash a lot more than i move, so i get it
things like drift dash and +movespeed can really mess up the way i play
gilded lily
and another tough one! next daedalus:
breaching cross or long knuckle
I'm thinking long knuckle, since breaching cross is only good for armor
unkempt pagoda
is this your first?
long knuckle is the generically good choice
also, all foes you hit count towards charging the special, so it's extra good on dem fists
tepid ridge
I love breaching cross for the late game and killing elites but it’s true, long knuckle is almost certainly better on average
gilded lily
second. my other is the kick for the special
tepid ridge
I don’t much like the kick on special though it offers pretty big numbers on Demeter. Leaves you more open.
unkempt pagoda
but you don't have to worry about aiming it, and it tends to be a giant delete button for whatever you're kicking
of course, explosive upper does that better and aoe
gilded lily
does it? I do like the explosive upper.
ya, I have the kick on special, with artemis epic on special... silly damage already
unkempt pagoda
the extra hits work with the dash upper
gilded lily
is the heart rend bonus static? meaning it's always the same when offered?
unkempt pagoda
maxed dem fists with explosive upper with a good dmg+% boon means a giant radius of absolute destruction
also, yes (all legendaries and duos should be static)
gilded lily
I had a run with it. it's crazy. almost lags the game when I used explosive upper
unkempt pagoda
it's amazing lmao, also it makes knockback work on bosses, so that's another plus
spare zealot
hold up the explosive upper moves bosses around?
Poseidon dash build is now viable babyyyyyyyyyyy
All you need is a very specific deadalus upgrade, EZ!
gilded lily
Didn't beat my best time, but I feel like I could with this build, if I'd focused time better
cunning urchin
Has anyone combined malphon's rolling knuckle with concentrated knuckle? Does it only extend the combo by 1 or does it allow the combo to continue indefinitely?
@gilded lily I have once. Definitely resets from what I could tell. Best DPS you can get on Attack with Hunter Dash and a % boon on Attack. Ideally with Zag Aspect and Pressure Points for crits.
gilded lily
thanks, good to know!
gilded lily
I'm convinced charged volley for the heart seeker bow doesn't exist. Literally the last thing for all of my prophecies to be complete
unkempt pagoda
it doesn't show up on chiron
gilded lily
is there a calculator for comparing if trading a boon is worth it?
I have frost flourish, adds 155% special damage. Ares is offering a replacement, 161 doom damage... I'm not sure which is better.
prime berry
A calculator would be useless since there are a lot of nuances and unpredictability of future boons
In general, if youre not going for a Doom build or special status build, dont get it over raw damage
depends on weapon too
gilded lily
spear, aspect of guan yu. Special attack build. I have skewer (+200%). Ya. I don't want to switch then
gilded lily
thanks. does demeter's decay work on hades when he's the only target?
man I hate how weak I am with guan yu's aspect.
turbid needle
Yes.
Guan Yu takes a little time to get used to how it works as well as the HP reduction.
tepid ridge
Decay is an easy fit into any build for me, love the free boss DPS.
prime berry
Having Guan Yu upgraded really really helps
Decay is super strong, rivals Hangover in DPs, easier to apply IMO and slows by itself
cunning urchin
I don't go for DPS with Guan Yu, just survivability. Deflect, Weak, evasion, damage reduction, Charm, Chill.
Also every heart chamber and Darkness I can pick up along the way.
Chaos Gates are great because you can get the HP back fast from mobs.
cunning urchin
That's the only thing that was missing, yeah. What's the title ||The Big Five-Oh|| for?
cunning urchin
Oh nice. Thanks!
spare zealot
Asterius' charge is annoying. Sometimes he'll barely turn, sometimes he'll 360noscope
naive laurel
he's weird to predict, and I think it also has something to do w/ limited turn rate being fairly bugged in this game (see poseidon call)
livid dew
what sword do you guys recommend for a 32 run?
also which heats do you guys reccomend to do for a 32 run? ive been testing different ones and havent beaten 32 yet
naive laurel
Actually.....I'd recommend poseidon if u stuggle in melee
gambling for cast build always works eventually, but is less good when u can handle 32 heat in melee range
Also, depends on if u want the real 32 or a bootleg one, FO 40% is a either-choice situation
mossy breach
I havnt played poseidon aspect yet, do you just get cast boons and rely a lot on cast?
naive laurel
I personally consider 32 w/o FO 40% basically bootleg
yes
actually, u don't even need to use the dislodge
0 dmg control, then get trippy shot into icewine
but again, that's also kinda cheating
I forgot how I won poseidon 32, brb
lvl 4 trippy icewine, yep
cunning urchin
Trippy Shot into Ice Wine, you mean. Blizzard Shot requires Flood Shot.
naive laurel
yep, brain f--t
I always kinda mistaken the 2 in my brain, cuz they are both broken demeter duos on cast..
cunning urchin
I think I said Ice Wine all day the other day meaning Blizzard Shot.
naive laurel
lul yeah, these 2 being new too def didn't help
blizzshot's anti-boss imo is still hard to top off, but icewine gives better chamber clears
did styx bot just bug out....
wait
cunning urchin
I think it's down.
naive laurel
ouch
all styx bot's thumbs are gone, even from previous ones
nvm
old old ones are still there
should we self-thumbs to help?
wait that sounds horribly wrong
pardon my wording
cunning urchin
No. I grant you no pardon.
I have no problem counting to 5 hits with Malphon. Don't really think a change is necessary.
Also, I just use High Confidence now with Malphon. Maybe on higher heat I'll need to change that, but for now it just seems like it's probably faster. Although my times haven't really changed with it.
15~18 min usually to clear.
livid dew
What are some of the good heats to pick for 32 heat? I was gonna try a Poseidon run or Arthur run tomorrow just wanted to know what I should pick. I have tried out every heat just dont know the best combo yet
cunning urchin
Best in the sense of easiest or most fun?
naive laurel
High confidence imo is for cursed slash, and nothing more, lul, the threshold is a bit problematic
I'd say, having an offensive option on that tier itself is a problem, I'd rather it gives dmg reduction above a certain threshold
@livid dew imo, on 32, there's not much choices at all.
cunning urchin
Well, I stay above 80% most of the time with Divine Strike. Room clears seem quite a bit faster.
naive laurel
I mean, it does depends on labor lvl
if 1 hit from any enemy reduces u below 80%, then it's a trash talent obviously
cunning urchin
Yeah, I'll probably have to change that on higher heat. Right now I get a lot of free heat from TD2 and convenience fee.
naive laurel
I personally consider convenience fee one of the most crippling heat for me
it's equvilant to -42% healing, but also f's your boon/heart purchases
and makes dd expensive af
-44.5%*
cunning urchin
With Hard Labor and stuff, yeah. But with just those two and a couple others, I don't really need to use the shop much at all.
naive laurel
True
basically, rn in my brain when i lost a dd, my brain is "f i just lost 200 obols"
the value game in 25+ heat is real strict
which is why I see 80%+ obol bonus from chaos I always take it, even if there are defiance there too
cunning urchin
Is TD2 still doable at higher heat?
naive laurel
I did it on a nemesis run in hell mode
but, died to hades, but I never ran out of time, only got close
however, imo, it's bad 5 heat compared to the 5 heat taken off to accommodate it
pliant palm
Welp, finally managed to get ice vine, it's hummm... pretty good
naive laurel
2bh, I'm waiting for a balance patch from them since next big update is gonna be june, but I don't think the balance patch gonna happen...
flat brook
i don't think they should nerf anything (except maybe for spreadfire), just buff weak stuff like crystal beam
naive laurel
I'd say, they should nerf icewine and spreadfire, and blizzshot's boss dmg
pretty much it
maybe rework arthur's bonus to be better late game but worse early game
pliant palm
I got Spreadfire for the 1st time with Zeus on the attack, wasn't great
tepid ridge
Spread fire tends to get really broken with certain Olympians like Aphrodite and Artemis, speedruns almost always use it.
pliant palm
Aphro gives the biggest dmg %, right ?
lament coral
yes, spreadfire is a single wide shot
it benefits the most from % boosts unlike the default rail attack, which benefits from raw number boons, like Zeus'
pliant palm
Yeah, figured c:
naive laurel
base dmg being 50 while dash base being 100, that adds up to some lvl of bs
lament coral
you have to hit Spreadfire before you take dash though, else you might be stuck with a useless dash and a regular attack
naive laurel
u mean hitting atk during dash or u mean something else
grave compass
I had no idea how powerful razor shoals really was and then it ate theseus 🤣
grave compass
Wait not razor shoals - blizzard shot
naive laurel
oh that, same shiet
blizzard shot is ultimate anti-boss
and it's from the god that's worse against boss, lul
I take poseidon cast extremely frequently for a reason
cunning urchin
Dash Strike with Spread Fire is 100?
naive laurel
double shot, 50*2
grave compass
Yeah - i was trying for that full demeter fists - but got a bunch of posedion and zues instead
Not too sad about it as if i can get some lighting on that blizzard shot then hades is getting destroyed
cunning urchin
Okay, I thought it was strong, but clearly I've been underestimating Spread Fire.
grave compass
Hoping sea storm does stack with it and i get it
lament coral
I meant getting the hammer before you take the dash
naive laurel
what dash? hunters?
lament coral
ye
naive laurel
ahh yeah, but usually I don't take it
even w/ the spreadfire
just take chaos 4head
lament coral
I've been playing nothing but Zeus attack rail for a long time now, and have no intention of changing that
cunning urchin
I don't think Chaos has 4 heads. You're thinking of Lernie.
lament coral
Chaos could have any amount of heads
cuz ya know, chaos
it might even be 0, or even -1
naive laurel
imaginary number
cunning urchin
Chaos divides by zero.
naive laurel
that's 42, u n00bs
grave compass
Typical - i got the demeter zues duo, the demeter poseidon duo, but not the zues poseidon duo with two chances in styx 🤣
Those 3 together coulda recked the world
cunning urchin
I think Chaos doing math theory when Zagreus is not around is my new headcanon. It seems like something they would do.
grave compass
Quickesy hades of my life - i actually prefer that to hunting blades
cunning urchin
Blizzard Shot is OD for bosses.
grave compass
Actually really happy with this :D
Usually i dislike the knuckles but had a lot of fun and surprised the boss went down so fast since i only started using my cast in Elysium
cunning urchin
Nice! Congratulations!
How come it shows 1 clear for the Twin Fists but 13 total clears?
naive laurel
i presume all 0 heat clears does not show up on the middle chart?
naive tusk
I think they are considering God mode clears
lethal crane
Anyone knows if the posi knockback effect is stronger with each rank-up? I tried to play ping-pong with my gloves and it failed after rank 2 😦
lethal crane
I could not make the ping pong happen at some point, maybe the mobs are different or the lava walls made it feel off.
grave compass
Yeah might be god mode - i only just started playing without now ive got muscle memory for the baddies down
rich cedar
Would you guys say a 32 heat run with forced overtime on 0 is kind of cheating?
rich cedar
??
Im at end of tartarus and i only hav e2 bons
how do you guys always have so many boons
cunning urchin
That's just strategy. Cheating I guess would be exploiting bugs.
Or messing with the game files to make things easier.
mossy breach
I think aspect of Hestia and Spread fire should switch sides instead of nerfing it.
(If it ever gets nerfed)
turbid needle
It very very briefly existed in tandem and it was hilariously busted.
rich cedar
Think im done with trying 32 heat
its just boring
takes out everything i like about hades
really boring being stuck in the same room for minutes
because you just some random benefit package dude at +60 % jury summons your weapon is weak against
naive laurel
Would you guys say a 32 heat run with forced overtime on 0 is kind of cheating?
@rich cedar
Not cheating, but I personally don't consider FO 0% 32 heat a real 32 heat run.
It's more like, when u say u finished a certain heat, u should mention your FO lvl as side criteria just the same as heat number.
unkempt pagoda
???
tepid ridge
??
restive widget
That's just silly, tbh. 32 heat is 32 heat, whichever way you do it. It's the same for everyone 🙂
naive laurel
not quite imo, if u turn FO off, it's way easier than w/ it, but again, just me, I don't represent everyone here
This is why I'm advocating for it being adjusted to something else
proud storm
gatekeeping in the punishment fandom
naive laurel
u know what, maybe voicing my belief is not a good thing in an open server, if anyone ask similar question later, I'll just voice my opinion and discuss w/ them in dms, since I got labeled so fast just by this opinion alone.
eternal stag
i think that last remark was a joke
young mural
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/565040718846885889/706601325919731732/Capture.PNG
hmm yes today i will win a guan yu run
im in like my 7th room lol
neon fiber
ah yes
suicide by chaos gate
young mural
nah nah nah
neon fiber
the finest of gamer tactics
young mural
50% move speed debuff means nothing if you kill everything in one q
why is firecracker hitbox so big tho
@neon fiber
young mural
went with caustic