I won a semi high heat with just the cluster
#h1-builds-and-combat
mild crag
Cluster rail is getting like 11 minute speed runs on 32 heat
dense locust
along with chill and enemies slowed with hangover
mellow quest
cluster bomb is still pretty eh, it's mostly good if it has doom for clearing rooms
but it kinda blows against bosses
dense locust
Yeah
mellow quest
rocket meanwhile will shred both rooms and bosses
dense locust
Im sure cluster rocket will get a nerf or a complete overhaul
rocket already will make me change my build mid run
mellow quest
it was fine at 80 damage tbh
dense locust
Cluster bomb should have a slow built in or something
mellow quest
i dont get why it got bumped to 100
dim rapids
triple rocket is actually pretty slow for some reason idk why
mild crag
Cause rocket has a hidden cooldown
mellow quest
you can't get triple rocket
dense locust
Haha I felt the same about the hermes boon that grants 45% dodge and movespeed that got buffed to 15 seconds after call
dense locust
I can reliably get my call back in 15 seconds, so its essentially 45% dodge and movespeed in one boon...
mellow quest
i thought they were mutually exclusive but alright then
not like there's a wiki 100% up to date with all this stuff or in game things saying what is incompatible
dense locust
Yeah thats why i'd really appreciate if they added a testing room
The community would build up the wiki themselves
mellow quest
i've done so many rail runs with rocket and never seeing triple offered, and triple special with rocket never being offered, so I just assumed it was incompatible after awhile
but rng is rng
mellow quest
sounds like im not missing out though since there's a forced cooldown
so much for the "rapid" part 
mild crag
Throwback to when it was less damage
mellow quest
always cute when you are on Hestia rail and you get room 1 hammer hazard bomb
immediately taking a chaos boon afterwards for -3 hp every attck
hazard bomb only
mild crag
Cuter when you're running a high heat run and get no choiced into hazard bomb
mellow quest
ez
mild crag
Eris btw
mellow quest
i dont play with no choice
mellow quest
it's gross
difficulty by shrinking options < difficulty by making the game actually harder
dense locust
Also the heat that some of the options add is grossly less than the amount that it hinders your run
dim rapids
no choice 1 is ok
no choice 2 is not worth it
no choice 2 + underworld customs is masochist mode
mellow quest
the heat you get from tight deadline 2 should scale as you add other heat modifiers
dense locust
Its just cranking up the effect of RNG to 11
Thats a good point
And the first point of limiting darkness shuts down like 80% of your darkness and adds 1 heat....
Has there been a 49 heat completion?
dim rapids
highest i've seen was 45 on shield
mellow quest
i am really underwhelmed by the demeter dash
plus it clutters screen with the cloud effect that doesn't do anything
sour heath
Does anyone have a resource or knowledge of how the boon slots work? I know about the main ability upgrades but I'm wondering how the other boons land in specific slots such as your aspect, daddy hammer boons, and chaos. Working on a build builder tool and I'm trying to figure out how I need to do the UI. Ty in advance
dense locust
I've been trying to figure that out myself
Especially the aspect which seems almost random as far as where it appears in the non-ability upgrades
sour heath
Hmm, I guess some of the UI code is available. Might check it out. Idk if there will be much logic there. If not, might just have to decompile it and see what the mystery is 
mellow quest
when will i ever learn that dodging through Theseus doesn't work when he's aiming his spear throw
you'd think after dozens of 180 degree turn throws I would
sacred idol
homing yeet machine
dense locust
Anyone know why they decided to give a lot of the fish names unnecessary h's?
unborn trellis
ch = chthonic
obtuse ravine
ohhh thats smarter than what I was gonna say
unborn trellis
i.e. "inhabiting the underworld"
obtuse ravine
h for hell
unborn trellis
im p sure the H's are inserted only after C's
dense locust
I can't pronounce charp as carp
mild crag
why not
dense locust
My brain won't allow it 😦
I gotta say, explosive shot and triple shot on the bow is pretty fun when you just dash attack around
mild crag
@dense locust https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vS7cL384D_M
dense locust
Yeah i was just about to say, if I had chiron maxed out this would be broken as hell
just started hell mode yesterday though
So scuffer isn't spelled schuffer, how can you explain that one?
frosty pier
Oh so bosses no longer have seizures every time charm works
mellow quest
another festive fog run in the bag, the usual demeter + zeus duo kind with jolted and every 10 stacks of chill exploding
and hangover call if that isn't enough for whatever reason lol
dense locust
I assume daddy is a cute nick name for the ham
Although there are some cases where the remaining available hammer boons are completely useless in a build
sour heath
lol
dense locust
Daddy's ham?
dense locust
One of my faves is fating into a nectar when I have the plus hp for nectars
sour heath
oh yeah double bubble
dense locust
What's the most hp all yall have amassed in a run?
disregarding things that improve effect hp
sour heath
maybe 200?
dense locust
effective
I had a 500 hp run the other day with shield i believe
with a lot of dodge and damage reduction on top of it, felt invincible
sacred idol
300+
gloomy scroll
I can’t remember, but definitely above 300
mellow quest
425 is my record every store had a centaur heart and i got the +50 hp tunnel at styx
you could probably get close to 600 if you got early life affirmance or the dio boon that gives you max hp for nectar + cerberus collar + darkness giving 5 max HP
sour heath
whooo just fat fingered Bouldy to kill Theseus when i was at like 10% w/ no DD left
spazzy clutch
dense locust
I got to 500 with an early +% to health increasing items, the nectar hp boon, and then some chaos boons, but no collar
For the longest time, I would constantly forget I had my companion
And probably lost like 4-5 runs that I could have won because of it
mellow quest
i had trouble keeping left trigger from right and accidentally using companions instead of a call
dense locust
Yeah I've done that quite a few times in panic
mellow quest
ugh, it's like the frame dropping is getting worse every day i play. it used to be buttery smooth but then one day it just started dropping periodically
now it's like every other room
mild crag
oh what the
er expletive
Ice Wine stops working if you lose your pre-req demeter boon
this is news to me lol
frosty pier
Wait what. How?
mild crag
I no longer satisfy the requirements for the duo boon, technically
leaving it as feedback and submitting a bug for it because i'm not really sure which category it falls under
frosty pier
Yeah, confusing stuff.
mild crag
hooboy
i got demeter's aid
and it started working again in that room
then when I went to the next room
it stopped working again
that's forreal a bug so i 
that one
mellow quest
snow burst + crush shot is pretty cute, you can get instant priv status in the cast with that
dense locust
Anyone else have a problem with poseidon's call sometimes launching me in whatever direction im facing, rendering me unable to steer?
mild crag
i dont use that call cause i dont like it
mellow quest
i've only had that happen once
rancid shore
that's probably the worst call imo
mellow quest
i think it's one of the best, impervious + high damage per hit + the damage scaling with poms is very very high
i'd say Aphrodite's is the "worst," 4 seconds of charm isn't all that useful as more than a stun and if you need 2500 damage the other calls can do that sorta
rancid shore
it's just way too weird for me to control
mellow quest
are you playing with controller or kb+m
rancid shore
kbm
mellow quest
i could see it being really bad on kbm
rancid shore
i do imagine it's much nicer on controller
dense locust
does rocket bomb and inescapable blast have any synergy at all?
mellow quest
inescapable blast is the one that just slows enemies, right
mellow quest
it changes it into an aoe slow within the blast
sacred idol
neat.
dense locust
hmm
mellow quest
it's cute but not really noteworthy
dense locust
okay thanks. I had inescapable, but rocket bomb is too strong
I like the slow a lot from inescapable, but rocket bomb is a little broken right now
sacred idol
@hexed tundra What is the effect now?
rancid shore
bravi means like the animation/sfx
since right now it just looks like an impervious shield for like hydra
hexed tundra
ye
elfin lake
i'm bad
sacred idol
@eternal stag The issue with Athena's thing being that effect is that it's the same effect as the spearpoint and the 'instagib protector' shield that exists outside of Hell mode...
rancid shore
it'd be misleading to have both that boon and spearpoint
sacred idol
They have different cooldowns.
eternal stag
in the middle of a fight i don't need to know Why i'm invulnerable more than to see at a glance that i Am invulnerable
i think changing it would confuse me more and be visually harder to read
sacred idol
well personally, I think it's important to know which source of invulnerability is active, because that way I know the thing I'm counting on isn't on cooldown
Unless they both proc at the same time and waste each other, which sucks.
mellow quest
an answer for that would require some math
always nice when rare crop hits your basic boon that you're still using as pretty much the core of your damage output
i got static discharge and lightning strike all the way up from common to heroic
sacred idol
My last Rare Crop dodged my main boon and ranked up my others.
Amazing
I was forced to use common on that slot
rancid shore
does each styx room (not path) count for rare crop?
sacred idol
Yes
manic ermine
Artemis is worse than the high damage boons with nemesis buff
mellow quest
i've lost more than a few runs at hades where i just need to dodge one last laser attack but it hits the urn next to pillar im using as cover
and that's what kills me before the laser stops so i can get the finishing blow
and like, what do you even do there? if you dash you move right into the laser, if you sit still you die to urn damage
and even just a slight movement away from the urn can make the pillar decide it's not blocking anymore
manic ermine
you stand safely in the middle of the lasers
sacred idol
So the defeat doesn't really feel... urned?
eternal stag
opal bay
gosh only AFTER I updated my pc do I see this emoji as finger guns and not a cat dabbing, gosh
eternal stag
that's their next game, sh
proud storm
theseus and asterius dabbing
opal bay
or I am really blind, dunno, but yeah. Just gotta stand in one place specific one mind you. The walls can be wonky to understand due to how 2D they are and their own hitbox.
proud storm
(zag enters theseus and asterius's room)
theseus: come on, asterius! let us show that blackguard our new move!!!
asterius: gods help me
sacred idol
Wait, finally cats in a Supergiant game?
I'd buy it
immediately
@proud storm t&a is an unfortunate shorthand for those two
shell wing
MAN I love this game. Anyone got ideas for more roguelike/lites? (Not sure whether this is a like or lite game
shell wing
Sorry
proud storm
ok i have been Informed, thank you
sacred folio
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/787504096901134178/0DC39D152AB848AF05A2044C122440F771E356A4/
Just went through another spear run. Evidently, you can be offered Flurry Jab while using Hades' Aspect. Even if it means removing the spin attack, making Hades' Aspect a level 0 aspect
But still, I'd take Flurry Jab in a heartbeat. It's just way too good.
sacred folio
When equipping Guan Yu's Aspect, Flurry Jab won't be offered at all.
dusky drum
oh, thats neat
pallid dagger
why
the guan yu spear is so slow, it could benefit a lot from that
sacred folio
That makes Quick Spin / Massive Spin more likely to appear
dusky drum
@pallid dagger i just get hermes 30% attack speed buff
sacred idol
That should be removed from Hades aspect
sacred folio
Yeah. I did -ed
fallow niche
@turbid needle When you see this: any heat is down to 6:01 and 32 heat to 12:44, but haeling was this close to beating it today. The WR for both categories has been contested like a dozen or so times in the last few days 
Also, 32 heat seems like a wide open field atm since ReqNy is using Rail, some people are using Poseidon Sword, and Haelian was using Nemesis Sword
I take back everything I said about Nemesis sword being sub-par 
Spear and Bow seem like the only odd ducks rn
sacred folio
My beloved spear T.T
manic ermine
Has anybody tried to route a charged skewer GY?
fallow niche
Route?
manic ermine
Make a run
fallow niche
I mean many people have played it, its real decent
manic ermine
\look for a seed
fallow niche
Its just that charge attacks are slow
This is why bow runs are slower on average than any other wep
manic ermine
Charged skewer animations are actually much faster than the normal throwing
fallow niche
I mean Guan Yu isn't fast to begin with
It held the initial WR for 32 heat because its one of the safest weapons to do it with, but it was quickly overtaken because other weapons are so much faster and people got better at playing at 32 heat
turbid needle
Get hecked every last one of you who has been talking yang about Stygius.
fallow niche
LMAO
tidal thorn
@manic ermine Is that a SMNC avatar? D:
manic ermine
Megabeth yes
tidal thorn
Woo MNC.
fallow niche
haelian just got demeter legendary despite no chill boons
turbid needle
What? How?
fallow niche
he tool the special and another boon earlier but sold the special hahaha
turbid needle
Ugh, that needs fixing.
turbid needle
Fair.
tidal thorn
How much do Legs sell for?
lament coral
400 something
are we talking about selling limbs
tidal thorn
A good Athena boon, when you start each fight with GG, is so much fun.
manic ermine
I was expecting dio
regal nimbus
god boons:
Billowing strength: +38% damage after call
Clouded Judgement: faster charge up when you deal or take damage +21%
Boiling point: Faster charge when takign damage 70%
Proud bearing: Start each encounter with god gauge at 30%
second wind: After using call: gain 45% dodge & move speed
combined with all the blade rift boons
@manic ermine for the call u mean?
- 60% damage from the railgun special aspect
fallow niche
dude thanatos just did a ring around the rosie in haelians game lmaooooo
@turbid needle you've played for a while, have you ever seen him just lap around a room like he just won nascar or something 
tidal thorn
Sounds ouch.
manic ermine
I think Dio has the best call currently
turbid needle
I've seen him walk into one or two lone pot(s) in the middle of an otherwise clear path and get stuck there for like 20 seconds.
fallow niche
LMAO
regal nimbus
or the poison?
fallow niche
schpoon thats hilarious
turbid needle
With a Call build, I'd use Zeus's Aid.
regal nimbus
i wanted to do one that doesnt focuse on hitting one enemy
fallow niche
and yeah zeus's call is best for call builds
its a good spammable call that does a ton of damage
manic ermine
You don't want to do full charge dio calls, the small one is much more efficient
and you get a little refund from lingering dot
fallow niche
dio calls are better for just proc'ing priv status imho
turbid needle
@fallow niche "My timer is running, what are you doing!?"
fallow niche
hahahahaha
regal nimbus
yeah that one came to mind too , but i wanted to try out the railgun aspect +60% damage in combination with it so i'd have to be in the middle of the fight so wanted some empervious at least
there's nothing else that boosts call damage right
on aspects
manic ermine
only eris
fallow niche
dude haelian got oblitered by theseus's bombs
he didn't know they got the +400% from trap damage
hahahaha
this run is such a garbage fire
turbid needle
120, right?
fallow niche
60 is the base?
manic ermine
they do 60 base
fallow niche
I guess I just never realized since I never got hit outside of fast theseus on 32 heat
also haelians run is just getting worse how is this possible
turbid needle
Absolutely absurd and I've been banging on SGG's gates like I'm Eric Andre telling them to nerf them.
fallow niche
yeah thats absolutely insane
60 base is over your base health without mirror upgrades lmao
sacred idol
Oof
turbid needle
They're the single hardest hitting enemy attack in the game.
Hit harder than any one hit Asterius and Hades deal.
fallow niche
That's completely insane
sacred idol
Unrelated: Why do people say Achilles aspect isn't good?
It sounds like such a fun aspect
fallow niche
Its not bad, its just really awkward to use
If the special was faster then I think it would be great
sacred idol
Is it the base attack speed or its specific animations being slow?
fallow niche
I think its base, but for the purposes of movement and being the main DPS source activating bull rush its quite awkward
fallow niche
Yeah 150% on casts is nuts
regal nimbus
since that one sticks around longer
fallow niche
I think it possibly can be incredible if you can get an early hermes on special
regal nimbus
just stay away from enemies and special out of hazard while releasing blade rifts
true as well
i find the hades aspect quiet bad on the spear tbh
unless uc an spin waeapon upgrade
but meh
sacred idol
I kinda wanted to try it with an attack build. Does it not scale up attacks
How long is the rush damage buff
And what does hades aspect work on
fallow niche
Its two hits
lament coral
it buffs attack, dash attack, and special damage for 10 seconds
fallow niche
No special damage iirc
lament coral
on Hades?
lament coral
oh yeah, he asked about both
atomic mist
Lately I've noticed that whenever I lose a DD I often end up taking a huge chunk of damage immediately afterwards. Like Zag is still stuck in the "respawn" animation and there's no way to dodge or do anything to avoid it. Again, might just be some +40% forced overtime weirdness or a delay of some sort, I have no idea. I can't even see what's doing the damage, it seems to come out of nowhere
The game gets a bit choppy when there's a lot going on the screen (and especially in Elysium) so it could be that also. Idk
stiff stone
you don't take damage after, it's an indicator of the damage which kille you
killed you*
I was confused about it as well, 'till I realized that
make a comment in feedback about it, I did a while back and it seemed to be well received by peeps
atomic mist
That was my first thought but I'm not so sure. It happens after the +XXX health thing pops up. And then I have way less health
fallow niche
DD puts you at half health
stiff stone
that, and after that prompt, you're still at half
so it does nothing, it's just an indicator
fallow niche
its a bug I'm fairly certain
stiff stone
I suggested that it should have the DD icon by it
fallow niche
never used to happen
And yeah it pops up after the +hp thing and then you get ministunned which is awful
atomic mist
I had ~200 max health once, saw the +100 pop up, I take a hit and I'm down to 50
And it all happens so fast
stiff stone
hmm odd, could it be you took another hit?
hasn't happened to me and I have maxed overtime all the time for my 20 heat runs
atomic mist
I'm just really slow probably lol. It's like the damage comes out of nowhere
atomic mist
I gotta pay attention next time, yeah
stiff stone
I doubt that you're slow, if you have maxed overtime, it really hard to dodge things
take asterius for instance lol
the guy becomes a frigging recking train
atomic mist
I agree with that. He becomes really frustrating
FO is so hard to pass up because it's a lot of heat though
stiff stone
yea, he has some giveaways about what he's gonna do, but by the time I react he's already on top of me
yea, it's 5 heat!
and it's easier than the prior patch, it used to be up to 50%
rain kayak
Wow, Poseidon's sword is super powerful! Just combine it with any cast except Dionysus/Aphrodite, possibly add Hermes, and you're done!
turbid needle
It's great with Aphrodite, too, it's just hard.
pallid dagger
where the hell is that sea storm upgrade
native ether
Poseidon sword isn't very effective on blade rifts either.
Exit Wounds makes it top tier.
pallid dagger
got 21 titan bloods
pallid dagger
cuz hades' attacks are cranked up really high
oblique tusk
my screen looks like this https://imgur.com/a/Mjr3uwz
and since i've heard that there aren't any requirements for other unlocks
i'm not really sure what's up
hot basin
you have to buy those
pallid dagger
deflection mathematics aren't understood yet but they're based on the enemy's damage somehow
pallid dagger
the contractor has a list of songs
odd quarry
Will Orpheus sing for you?
pallid dagger
[Continues letting Zagreus die until this game stops handing me the most garbage possible hammers for the weapon and keepsake I chose right out the bat]
green sable
He does for me.
oblique tusk
man, don't you love it when you're trying to go ares/athena and then floors 2, 3, and 4 offer you literally nothing but artemis, aphrodite, and dionysus
despite having taken boons from none of those gods
and then i've been forced to take ares call twice
green sable
yuck
oblique tusk
also, wow the devs need to figure out how to stop overtuning longspears
elysium just straight up isn't fun
pallid dagger
I GOT IT
I GOT SEA STORM ON THE HERA BOW
FINALLY
and it's awesome
i knew in my heart it would be worth it
everything is dying on auto
pallid dagger
nice!!!
[chef's kiss]
I did the math
Each full cast-loaded shot was doing a minimum 685.5 damage and each follow up did 195 damage, all before factoring in critical hits supplied by pressure points
i feel very good today
alright, the only weapon needing a 12 heat run left is exagryph, and this is gonna be my first time trying the Eris aspect
anyone got any build recommendations before i start?
dense goblet
Rocket bomb hammer with Athena special is lit and also the Demeter attack is also lit
Pair it with another hammer for triple bomb you got three giant rocker right there buddy
And dash into them when safe to get the buff
Also try to get a good boon on the dash
green sable
FINALLY i won with the rail...
dense goblet
Just to be safe and then try getting status curses
dense goblet
Nice good work!
green sable
took arti crits and rockets to do it
i figured since it worked with my spear run it would work with rockets
Tri-rockets really help to
ocean mango
The rail aspect with the first-bullet-is-strong effect seems really over powered to me
It easily out-dps normal damage by just spamming one shot -> reload -> one shot?
But with the added bonus ju get to move and shoot special as you're reloading
turbid needle
It's quite good, but falls off later in the game if you don't have an actual build to support it.
dense goblet
Tri rockets really are neat with many different builts
ocean mango
What's "later"? I'm on heat ~15 and it still feels crazy good
turbid needle
Later geographically in the game.
ocean mango
Ah
turbid needle
If you don't have actual boons it won't scale past Elysium.
ocean mango
Athena dash + some hermes mobility + some attack boon that gives +%dmg and that's about all you need with the reload spamming
turbid needle
So you do have an actual build supporting it, got it.
turbid needle
Strong weapons are okay.
ocean mango
I kind of feel like the whole magazine mechanic sort of falls by the wayside
Btw, do you also find it crazy annoying to use cast build in asphodel? (burny place, IIRC)
turbid needle
Sometimes.
ocean mango
The blood stones sort of blend in to the lava and ends up along the border of the map, where the lava makes it dangerous to look for them
solid cairn
Anyone else think rare crops is kinda busted
Pretty much an insta-take whenever it shows up for me
Unless everything important is epic rarity
naive cobalt
It's worthless in Styx
naive cobalt
If you've got core boons
fallow niche
@turbid needle So. The game RNG. If you kill a shade while its moving, or depending on where it stopped moving, you can change the outcome of the next chamber (or future chambers).
What. Is. this. Game.
solid cairn
It’s saved so many runs
turbid needle
Shades as in the dudes floating around or enemies in the game?
turbid needle
fallow niche
We're now talking about clearing rooms in specific ways in order to get specific boons later on in Tartarus more consistently
solid cairn
Bro there’s rng manip in this game?
fallow niche
Yes, that's how speedrunners on any heat do it
Current WR is 6:01
Its extremely convoluted though
turbid needle
You think sub-5 is possible?
solid cairn
Thank it’ll be patched?
solid cairn
Is there a category for no manipulation
fallow niche
@solid cairn No its impossible to patch I would think
And no
You cannot prove someone is not using manipulation
fallow niche
Any% is the only category because of this, with a split between any heat and 32 heat
solid cairn
All fish types caught% run when
fallow niche
@turbid needle I take that back about no sub-5. The only possibility is the god seed with god rolls or TAS stuff to perfectly manipulate RNG
turbid needle
Blood and darkness, I was wrong about Shadow Slash.
That's annoying that it can't backstab with Dash Attacks..
solid cairn
I wonder how different a hades TAS would look from normal gameplay
fallow niche
Like whats the max Chaos boons you can get?
fallow niche
The best run would get 3 fountain chambers, all NPC encounters, 3 mid-biome shops, max chaos boons, 2nd room sack, and no invis hades fight
And not tisiphone for first boss
And the right enemy types for the rooms we do end up fighting in
And of course a good build
It just... requires so much
Maybe it'll be possible post-release, but right now I would be skeptical that its even close to being possible
turbid needle
Hey, it happens once in an infinite number of runs.
turbid needle
So might as well wait until we can gut the game from head to toe and set it up, then TAS through it.
See what a true perfect play/roll run would look like.
fallow niche
With a pre-found god seed
I assume the perfect run could be under 5 minutes
But its hard to say
abstract pilot
how much understanding do we have of the code? seems like at some point it will be more productive to reverse-engineer that to find good seeds than to brute force search
fallow niche
Seeds are generated randomly and not even SG probably knows what the god seed would look like
even if they know what they're looking for
As for the RNG, we know how it works. Mostly
Its just crazy finicky
turbid needle
No Thanatos, either.
turbid needle
Thanatos Thanatos Thanatos Thanatos Thanatos.
fallow niche
aaAAAA
anyway
Assuming Hades becomes as beloved as SG's other games like Transistor and Bastion, I think this game could have an active speedrunning scene many years into the future
abstract pilot
lol
i was wondering if it could possibly be better to have a file that's new enough to not have him unlocked
i doubt it though
fallow niche
No you want Demeter unlocked
turbid needle
I don't think you can get strong enough options/enough Darkness.
fallow niche
And yeah darkness is super important
Fated Authority is super important
@turbid needle omg im currently losing it
kossetsu just told me admiring the skelly statue changes the first rooms rng
and nothing else
holy crap
thats hilarious
boreal prism
Is that.... useful?
turbid needle
You mean I can just stare at the statues until I force a hammer spawn?
fallow niche
No, the enemy spawns
Specifically the enemy spawns
In the first room only
Its so bizarre
boreal prism
Incredible....
Speed runners are gonna admire skelly so much to save precious seconds
fallow niche
I swear I could write a doctoral thesis on this game's RNG
pallid dagger
@green sable congrats on getting the rail win!
turbid needle
Eventually Skelly starts getting creeped out you're staring at his statues so much.
boreal prism
I wonder what the best first enemies are, skulls?
main citrus
💀 "Does this tickle your fancy, boyo?"
It's greek mythology, I wouldn't put below ANYONE to have a romantic interest in Skelly :p
mild crag
If you're not game to stare at statues you can beat up skelly instead
Or continually open and close the pact of punishment
turbid needle
I can hear your quote perfectly in Skelly's voice.
tawny ivy
turbid needle
Don't kinkshame.
empty locust
first run ever with Exagryph and i go and beat a full run. wow.
Exagryph is an amazing weapon, like legit
turbid needle
It is.
balmy brook
is it me or is hermes just really underwhelming
Like the movement speed/dodge/whatever is nice but I'd much rather have anything else
oblique tusk
getting a common hermes boon just feels so awful
"yay, thanks for 12% extra special speed"
green sable
hermes is just ok...the dash with the 100 Speed for 6 seconds is sure fun tho when you already have 40% extra haste
You blaze around pretty quick
multi dashing with water god powers is actually nice to
left saddle
wait u guys actually like exagryph??
maybe i'm using it wrong lol
it is by far my least favorite
as in, i LOVE all the other weapons, and i don't like it at all
odd quarry
Exagryph is currently the only weapon without hitstun on the primary attack
So it’s definitely different
odd quarry
Also Epic Greatest Reflex from Hermes is absolutely nuts
And 25% chance to completely ignore damage directed at me? Yes please.
pallid dagger
Hermes is a real hit-and-miss guy
His boons just....have a lot of chance to not be that useful cuz they're situational at best. Like, I don't usually need to do things quickly, I just need to do them right.
I really don't get why he's labeled a "special" god that you can't pump poms or ambrosia into.
gloomy vine
At least one of the two movement speed boons are essential imo
left saddle
what do u mean hitstun
odd quarry
Two things; it’s the number of boons that you get from Hermes and what they do
pallid dagger
i wouldn't say so; i'd say the only ones i really go for with him are the attacking/special speeds, and even then i'll dodge those if a better alternative is behind the other door
odd quarry
Hermes boons are generally useful; extra dashes or chances to ignore damage are usable no matter the build you have
Also hitstun
gloomy vine
Movement speed is king. Evasion second. Cast speed is great for cast build. The rest is just generally good too.
odd quarry
As an example, take Stygius: when you hit an enemy (that isn’t armor) they flinch
That is hitstun; they are ‘stunned’ by the hit and generally if they’re attacking, they get interrupted. There are some notable exceptions, but a good example is Brim/Snakestones; their lasers stop when they take hitstun.
turbid needle
@pallid dagger Four spectral Zagreus fire out in opposing directions whenever an attack is dodged. It's easy for it to get lost in the clutter.
pallid dagger
............???????????????
are you sure??? i just got an eye exam today so i know i ain't got the best sight but you'd think i'd have noticed that
turbid needle
100%.
mild crag
It's very faint and they don't move far
gloomy vine
Doesn't it say dodge on screen too?
turbid needle
Yes, but that gets lost in the clutter.
gloomy vine
Like where damage number would be
You can almost think of dodge chance as a increase in health. Like 25% dodge equivalent to 33% extra health. It isn't quite this simple because attacks do different amounts of damage but it's a simple way of understanding the benefits for anyone who doubts it.
rare salmon
When increasing heat, any thoughts on the easiest things to increase first? I always start with double Extreme Measures, Middle Management and Heightened Security for my first 6, but I'm undecided from there.
naive tusk
People say the increased gold cost is free heat
solid cairn
Jury summons is pretty easy actually
naive tusk
I think it was Kossetsu who said it
naive tusk
But I cannot remember... or was it Genesis?
mild crag
That sounds like something I'd say
Hard labour is one I pick usually too
It's not free but
You're a heat gamer now so you are probably getting decent at dodging
tidal thorn
https://i.imgur.com/3lahnvi.jpg
"I heard you swapped off Hera."
solid cairn
Is twin shot better than triple
tidal thorn
I like it more.
gloomy vine
I really don't like the triple shot
tidal thorn
Instant kills a lot of low HP, higher armor stuff with explosive.
I'm so sad I wasnt Hera aspect tho.
mild crag
And neither are as good as the cyclops one
solid cairn
Yes
oblique tusk
the the spider eyes or whatever it's called is pretty damn good as well
solid cairn
I wish I could play Isaac on my pc again
oblique tusk
just...don't go triple shot
triple shot is lackluster at best in both of these games
solid cairn
For some reason it crashes whenever I try to launch
oblique tusk
oof
oblique tusk
huh, damn
solid cairn
I miss that game
It’s so flawed but
It really was one of the pioneers of the modern roguelike
pallid dagger
alright
i'll say this: i'm sorry i didn't try eris sooner
i still love hestia! but eris is great
although i have to give some of the credit to this damage being dealt to the privileged status
solid cairn
It is but it’s not at the same level as the best aspects
pallid dagger
i will pretend you did not speak and continue to lavish praise on this weapon
flat damage upgrades are amazing
pallid dagger
between eris and privileged status, dio's poison is doing 105 damage every half second
pallid dagger
eris boosts your damage for 8 seconds after you stand within a bomb blast
waxen imp
Oh yeah I main that when I go rail
It applies dmg to everything
Dmg*
Use butterfly keepsake at start and find an attack dio on eris rail
Put all poms into it
solid cairn
Grimm, play it with max no choice and get a hammer with the only choice being hazard bomb
waxen imp
You can dodge your own bomb and still get the boost
waxen imp
Yeah it's pretty cancer if it's only choice
They should add a thing where you get more darkness if you add a certain combination on pact of punishment
Similar with what we had cough cough
pallid dagger
Hazard Bomb or Concentrated fire?
I have Flurry fire already....
But I also have Aphro Flourish
I've heard Hazard Bomb isn't good on Eris aspect, right?
Ah, Epic Swift Strike + Flurry Shot
Hermes did come through this time
tidal thorn
So about Triple Shot
https://i.imgur.com/Sb2J6TV.jpg
pallid dagger
useless, yes
tidal thorn
In small spaces, all three arrows will bounce with Chain Shot.
Which is pretty fun tbh.
Not great but just funny my Hammers gave me that after.
blazing mulch
If you decide to shot staying right in enemy then all 3 arrows will damage enemy
tidal thorn
I didn't know if you could shotgun with it.
pallid dagger
Everybody that dislikes Artemis: eat my flawless kill of Asterius and Theseus
I've never done that before
this really happened
pallid dagger
hopefully!
oblique tusk
(they're not people if they dislike artemis)
pallid dagger
gbfhgrv
green sable
i actually like arti
mild crag
Most people do
green sable
its how i won with the rail was an arti build.
mild crag
She's a good character with powerful boons
The contentious thing to say is you like poseidon
pallid dagger
poseidon haters have no rights
pallid dagger
I hit 30 Titan bloods!
tidal thorn
Like in inventory?
oblique tusk
wack
oblique tusk
okay wait
do you mean
poseidon cast made you dislike casts?
poseidon cast made you dislike poseidon sword?
poseidon the character made you dislike poseidon cast?
poseidon sword made you dislike poseidon cast?
tidal thorn
Posi aspect made me like the sword less.
tidal thorn
lmao
oblique tusk
did you mean sword or cast???
oblique tusk
[6:15 PM] thebrassthief: gl, I think Posi actually made me dislike the sword a bit more.
[6:16 PM] thebrassthief: Wait cast not the sword.
whomst
tidal thorn
WHO'S ON FIRST
I meant the sword, Lady meant the cast (I'm assuming), I was assuming they meant the sword.
oblique tusk
and then i wasn't sure whether the "nvm" was part of the second statement, or a correction of the correction
that entire interaction just baffled me lmao
tidal thorn
Nothing at all.
oblique tusk
that...that's not a valid response
that's not how language works
"nothing" isn't a response to a statement
that's not how english works ._.
mild crag
Oh no it continues
oblique tusk
help
spare scaffold
Hmm am I missing out on something, I continually forget to use my cast on anything but the sword and maybe the spear since everything else had decent range already, unless I got a boon for my cast
I know I'd get a damage boost for my attacks if I use my cast more often but then I forget anyway
cursive pecan
if your damage is fine against normal rooms then don't worry about it too much, mostly you want to keep boiling blood uptime on bosses/minibosses
spare scaffold
It's actually better that I focus on one aspect of my kit rather than spreading out boons to every part of it right?
Yeah I do try to do that
cursive pecan
as for the second question, it depends on how reliably that part of your build does its job
if there are certain enemies/parts of the game where it's going to be shut down or really hard to apply the damage, then you want to branch out a bit to cover your weak spots
spare scaffold
I have zero concept of how I should do my builds rn unless the stars align and the boons I get actually have some synergy
Have to keep in mind which god gives me which..
cursive pecan
like a high single damage build might struggle against lots of little enemies
spare scaffold
Is there some sort of overall guide to building that would be useful to a dummy like me
mild crag
Don't worry you're not a dummy
There is a lot ot this game which is not immediately obvious
Like I'm sure 90% of players wouldn't be able to tell you how poms work out the bonus they give you
I'm planning on making some videos to that effect
green sable
Im like posideon cast so far its not bad having 4 clears hydra easy enough
spare scaffold
Eh the only other roguelike I've played seriously is Synthetik and that game is a lot more forgiving in the sense that you can work with whatever the game gives you
mild crag
Hey hey people
mild crag
Oh lol
But yeah it's not clear which boons have diminished poms, which boons have regular poms and which ones have "strong" poms
spare scaffold
I should ask, because so far despite making it to ||Hades himself|| I had to turn on god mode (sitting at 30% now) and building according to my feeling and it rarely works out
Wait what does that mean
mild crag
You can say spoilers here
spare scaffold
Poms affect boons differently?
mild crag
Well if you've ever gotten Jolted
The Zeus status effect
It's a strong pom boon
So it gets better bonuses than other boons
spare scaffold
Yeah I have seen it but haven't picked it because I didn't have much in terms of lightning effects that benefits me at the time
huh
mild crag
But other boons like uh
spare scaffold
So a lot of trial and error on that
spare scaffold
Whose boon is that
mild crag
Trial and error or interpreting the code
It's the athena damage resist one
Let me check to make sure I'm not lying rn
spare scaffold
There's an Artemis boon that gives crit chance on all attacks, Peer Pressure I think, does that one count as weak pom boon
mild crag
Pressure Points
spare scaffold
Ah mb
mild crag
Yeah
Oh pressure points isn't reduced
It's just cause it has a really low base value
spare scaffold
Neat, I was thinking of the other Dio the whole time
mild crag
And poms improve by a %
spare scaffold
Ah
mild crag
spare scaffold
Can you link me the wiki we have?
mild crag
A lot of this info isn't on there because it's just from my own investigations and I've been too lazy to contribute or summarise it in any manner
spare scaffold
Thanks mate
pallid dagger
yooooooooo i finally got chaos' legendary
naive tusk
Congratz
green sable
grats hun
im shooting for a spefic duo boons now
so i can fill out my fate list
as well as trying to finish it with the bow
mellow quest
I still haven't seen that chaos boon after over 300 runs
naive tusk
It’s... really rare
mellow quest
It's just 1 extra death defiance, right
mild crag
It got buffed up to 20% occurance rate
naive tusk
300 runs sure is a lot. They should raise the % of appearance more if it’s taking you that long to find it
naive tusk
I wished luck was better. I’ve only found it once and it looks nice
mellow quest
I've had several runs where I've gone to chaos 3-4 times
naive tusk
They want you to visit more often lol
green sable
take the chaos egg and your set
trail timber
Damn near died laughing to the Dynamic Duo at max forced overtime.
Asterius spinning is straight up beyblade.
crystal geyser
just wondering, does attack damage also influences the dash attack dmg output for the sword?
waxen imp
Yep
gloomy vine
Damnnn just did a run in 17:25:89. That was intense
solid cairn
Any weapon
mellow quest
How many shots after dashing count as a dash strike with the adamant rail?
Also does the entire burst from delta chamber count as a dash strike? Cuz eventually I have to take that crap upgrade for the prophecy
sacred idol
I think it's a 3 burst
Dunno what delta chamber does, think it just makes it like the dash
bright mulch
Finally got my ice wine run
This run also shows the bug I saw before, finally got to report it
Rare Crop procced on Static Discharge but graphically it still looks Common despite actually having heroic numbers like it's brothers it looks like
Good to know it's only cosmetic
Couldn't double boon with Scintilating though, rip
trail timber
🤔
sacred idol
@bright mulch Did you f10 it
bright mulch
Yeah, since I knew to look out for it I knew to report this time
This run was super fun too, but it did kinda showcase that I really wish Achilles Spear didn't have that bit of delay before you can chase the special
Early on it's fine but later that like half second feels like forever lol
First time I also fought EX Dynamic Duo
Kinda weird, Aesterius definitely gets a lot stronger but it feels like THesus gets worse? Lol, maybe it was just my build
I ripped him apart on chariot super fast
Much easier than having to deal with his dumb shield all the time
Beef boi became premium grade though, actually had to respect him this time
sacred idol
Mention something in feedback re: the delay?
That sounds like the only issue with achilles, delay/clunk
bright mulch
Yeah, might as well, I really like the aspect otherwise, were it not for that delay, I'd put it on the same level of fun as GY in that you actually want to press every button in a build
mild crag
@mellow quest only one shot after dashing is a dash strike and delta Chamber's dash attack is a single shot which you can weave between two bursts
mild crag
5never
oblique tusk
for the rail's dash-strike without delta chamber, however, both shots count @mellow quest
rancid shore
dash strike for regular rail is 2 quick shots
mild crag
It's a single shot which is not affected by the internal cooldown of the rail's regular shots
oblique tusk
no, it's two shots
go grab the rail
do a dash-attack
it's a pewpew
not just one pew
mild crag
It's a pewpew because it's not affected by the same cooldown as the normal attack
oblique tusk
no, it's because the dash-strike is two shots
you can press down for a single frame
it fires twice
and then has a slightly longer than normal cooldown before you can start shooting normally
instead of going pew pew pew pew pew, it goes pewpew—pew pew pew
mild crag
Yes because the normal rail fire cooldown starts after the second attack
turbid needle
I don't think that's right.
I'm 99% sure you immediately start refiring at normal Rail fire rate.
shell solar
The easiest way to prove it is to grab a "dash attack" boon and see that it affects both shots.
It's not two separate attacks in any useful way, boons and cooldowns treat it as one action but each shot procs as an attack
turbid needle
Hestia has a delay.
shell solar
Yeah there's no real delay, I use it to fire 4 round bursts when I get that hammer boon
though it does only add one to it, not 2
oblique tusk
that's specifically with delta chamber, though
and, if i'm wrong on the attack speed bit then my bad
but i'm pretty confident there's a slightly longer delay
turbid needle
Yeah, Delta Chamber sucks.
oblique tusk
idt it actively sucks, it's just not worth picking up
compared to a few other boons
turbid needle
It is a DPS down from regular fire.
oblique tusk
wait it is, what?
turbid needle
Kossetsu or someone calced it out a while back.
oblique tusk
i thought the deeps averaged about the same over time, counting reloads
spare scaffold
..I like Delta Chamber
turbid needle
70-something with regular fire and reloads over a while, 40-something with Delta Chamber.
oblique tusk
wow damn
spare scaffold
Mostly because it allows me to be firing on the move much more smoothly than normally
turbid needle
You all already know what my favorite Rail hammer was.
oblique tusk
lot lower than i thought
spare scaffold
Oof I figured it's gonna be low but that's low
oblique tusk
can we get an f in the chat for not-cheeks infinity chamber
green sable
i miss my inf shots NOT delta chamber 😦
mellow quest
i just picked it up for the prophecy since it was the last one and im ready to go walk out into the lava in asphodel after i get out of Tartarus
prime knoll
I feel like the spirit of Delta Chamber is to get consistent, quick burst fire, so it seems like a small boost to accuracy and rate of fire for those bursts would do it some good.
But it's also competing with other hammer choices that imho are stronger than they need to be- flurry fire and spread fire are better than delta chamber by miles and miles.
mellow quest
even if it were just infinite ammo it's not even better than flurry fire
prime knoll
I proposed a change on the steam discussions- basically flurry fire is ++++ because it just improves everything. It crowds out any benefit delta chamber might offer by already doing that and more. I'd be happy with flurry fire doing everything it does except actually reducing accuracy instead of increasing it.
opal bay
I really like the explosive fire and spread fire set up I got yesterday for my run. Hopefully today I can perfect Styx with them.
prime knoll
With that combo, I feel like Zeus and Dionysus have to be like 👀 "Hey buddy"
opal bay
Oh sadly none of that. Just Dino. 
Dino on attack at least with her stacking chills and artemis on special and dash.
So whenever I do dash attack it should stack up and go crazy.
Sadly picked Zagreus aspect.
oblique tusk
dino?
opal bay
Yes, thank you.
sacred idol
@silent depot You can. Give up, after you buy something, claim a boon, take damage, etc
It'll keep the seed though
prime knoll
I'm intrigued that other seem to have better experiences with the melee weapons.
opal bay
I mean if you can make a viable run with just zagreus aspect sword with dash only, anything is possible tbh. Unless it's higher than 20 heat possibly.
That experience was a good example for me most things can work well
turbid needle
Dionysus's strongest build is Spread Fire Eris, it applies poison stacks per pellet that connects.
opal bay
Just gotta think smart
prime knoll
Best weapon is definitely the dash. Ares or Poseidon with all their boons... take out even bosses in mere seconds.
oblique tusk
https://imgur.com/a/mKyQl6O man, i &*%$ love it when all of my goddamned casts get stuck behind a wall at the start of a room
sacred idol
Blade Dash? Seriously?
I know Poseidon works, but Blade Dash is generally the worst dash in the game...
sacred idol
The worst hitbox, useless without going all in on blade rift boons
Not cast, my bad
Ares cast with Blades is nutty
green sable
i don't use it much my fav cast is Dio grenades.
sacred idol
But blade dash requires that you go directly up to an enemy, in dying range, and then dash away
prime knoll
If you get the boon where they follow targets and the one that increases damage on each consecutive hit, you just dash to victory.
sacred idol
Wait what. Hunting Blades works on dash?
green sable
follows them
sacred idol
Its base spawning is horrible
mild crag
hey @oblique tusk i picked up a rail like you asked me to and confirmed that im right https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/270911855306866689/677407661838565386/unknown.png
sacred idol
About what?
mild crag
rail dash attack is a single shot
oblique tusk
then that's my bad, because i have literally never been able to not double-tap
mild crag
it's possible, but difficult
prime knoll
It may not work for dash 🤔 but with Hermes' extra dashes, you can put out a pile of 5 or so rifts all at once.
I like it with the spear upgrade that shortens your dash distance so you can create a really tight spread of rifts.
I'm sure it's not that fast, but my fastest run was 31 mins with that rift build.
mellow quest
it's nice when you put together a run so strong that you don't even need to buy things at the last store to comfortably win, so you just buy the titan blood
opal bay
Man I wish that could be me
mellow quest
just get cluster rocket and deadly flourish 4Head
opal bay
one day.
prime knoll
I like both the cluster bomb and the rocket mods, but I don't like firing the rockets in succession from left to right when you get both.
prime knoll
Indeed. It's a small complaint to have.
mellow quest
but nah i had a spread fire + rocket run with chill on attack and weaken+charm on the special
and the goofy interaction with artic blast making the explosion every 10 stacks of chill
and like, that's it, that was the build
mild crag
what's the dps like with that?
mellow quest
didn't even need anything else
mild crag
is it as insane as it sounds in my head
mellow quest
the damage was chonky but not as fast as it could've been
prime knoll
Eris?
mellow quest
it wasn't even eris aspect
prime knoll
Oh dang
sacred idol
That helps balance it, because firing it as an actual immediate shotgun would be a little busted
(cluster rocket)
mellow quest
can you even get spread fire on hestia aspect
mild crag
if you had heroic version, eris and priv status up it's 336 damage bursts every two shots
you can but its not good since it doesnt change the first shot at all @mellow quest
mellow quest
i was just using zag because i didn't wanna click reload too much with a bandaid on my thumb
prime knoll
Oh I'm under no illusion that it isn't already strong. I just don't like it aesthetically. I avoid it for that reason. Feels sluggish even if it kicks off armageddon.
turbid needle
You should try remapping reload to a shoulder button.
Hestia shotgun existed at one point and it was incredibly broken, Possibly the nastiest thing I've ever used in this game.
People were two-shotting Theseus.
mellow quest
no fun allowed
remapping the reload is a pretty good idea, easily swapped with the codex button too
vagrant marten
I did exactly that yeah
prime knoll
I feel like spread fire could take a damage hit and still be amazing. Hestia's empowered shot is like... that aspect's thing. It should prohibit you from seeing spread fire or it should work with it in some way, like a smaller bonus.
cold oriole
i found