plus, having learned that they killed an awesome Artemis/Zeus duo, which caused a lightning bolt to strike whenever you critted, and replaced it with Lightning Rods...
#h1-builds-and-combat
lament coral
sacred idol
Zagreus shield just needs un-nerfed from 10% DR, quite honestly
mild crag
we know for a fact the devs read the feedback channel and ive suggested buffing curse of longing at least twice there with decent thumbs up
they just don't care about it apparently
sacred idol
@mild crag uh, or they haven't gotten to it
Zagreus rail is the weakest, but it does have potential with conc fire
mild crag
would take me 10 seconds to buff it from 25% to 50% reduction
lament coral
balance is most certainly a popularity contest
it's why Guan Yu, despite they heavy downside, is busted
mild crag
not that i'm trying to throw shade on SGG for it, they just clearly think it's in a good place
lament coral
I've seen this before, with Motion Twin and Dead Cells
sacred idol
the downside is the balance
well it's not more busted than shield of anything not zagreus
lament coral
where common sense suggestions were implemented years after they were made
sacred idol
the spin sucks without quickspin tbh
mild crag
i dont know what complexity you think is involved here Felis
lament coral
and some were simply ignored
sacred idol
this sounds more like salt and devbashing than legitimate criticism, zepp
lament coral
have you played DC?
sacred idol
but I mean, I've done volunteer QA before and it's not just as simple as changing a number to whatever
they actually have to test changes
"the devs didn't work on MY timetable" is not equivalent to "the devs literally don't know or care"
mild crag
it is as simple as that though, there's a file with the damage modifiers in plaintext
fiery shale
🤔
mild crag
regarding balance or QA, this is an early access game - we are the QA
well
the testers at least
sacred idol
@mild crag you don't get it, do you
it IS as easy as changing a value to change the value
but that doesn't tell you its impact on the gameplay
like, you could halve the charge speed of spear spins right now, or make hades aspect buff the spin instead, but the last guy who tried the latter ended up doing 2k crits in tartarus somehow
mild crag
that was me lol
sacred idol
well
in that case I think you should probably think about it a little harder
if they just did that because "it's just editing a text file", on this patch cycle that isn't "literally daily iterations", it wouldn't take long for a bunch of speed records to involve oneshotting things with Hades
mild crag
have you seen the artemis cast speedruns, it's extremely busted
it already exists in the game
they one shot the hydra with meg and the cast
besides my point with saying that they think it's fine is that this has been in the game for the last 3 or so major patches
and i suggested it for the past two
mild crag
fiery shale
😂
mild crag
gonna go an do me like that
sacred idol
tbf though it's ultimately relatively minor, the thing isn't entirely useless
although I am annoyed that the zagreus shield was nerfed
Was the bow nerfed as well or always 10%?
manic ermine
It was power shot duration, then 5% crit, then 10%
lament coral
Zag shield went from 15% to 10%, does it really make a difference when Chaos exists?
mild crag
just way less impactful than other duos
unless they explain every balance change they make (which would probably take too much effort to do so i understand that) i guess we'll be left guessing
like the spent spirit nerf
it wasn't exactly dominating people's choices as far as i know
sacred idol
That one feels fine
It completely trivialized styx before
I should know, I got it once before and after and the first time just felt like a casual stroll.
mild crag
that's fair
i just think it's more of a nuisance than helpful at a lower number though
mild crag
doesn't give you significantly more time to react and changes the timings
maybe it's just more apparent on overtime
sacred idol
may be a touch overnerfed
haven't played with plenty of overtime
but perhaps a value in between old and new would be preferable
mild crag
i suppose it isn't as bad since they lowered the overtime ceiling
sacred idol
the old one was... broken as defensive boons go
mild crag
i havent had it since then
sacred idol
quite honestly, on no overtime, any projectile attack is as effective as wet paper with old spent spirit values
CoL seems like the only duo that's really disadvantaged, but it still isn't useless
lament coral
it's just one of those boons that has to come early
it has the downside of being a duo
mild crag
its just worse exclusive access
lament coral
same with Dio/Pos one that turns all future boons into epics
manic ermine
I think the reverse, exclusive acess is weak but sweet nectar is good
sacred idol
Exclusive Access seems like it's strange...
It would come too late to be useful in most runs, no?
lament coral
they're both decent, if you get em in Tartarus
sacred idol
I've quite literally never seen a duo boon before...
Asphodel at the absolute earliest?
lament coral
I had both of em in Tartarus, though not at the same time
sacred idol
what kind of unholy RNG do people have to get enough boons for duo in tartarus
mild crag
the thing with sweet nectar is the diminishing returns kick in way early
manic ermine
I have had a mad run where I got black out and exlusive access before meg
lament coral
Access was a godsend when the mirror limiter was in place and most boons were common
a literal divine intervention
sacred idol
look, all my doors tend to be darkness or gems
also I mean that's still a thing, that's just called any level of Budget Cuts 4head
lament coral
even now?
mild crag
Got used to it playing on hell since before removal
A lot of people think it's cutting out half the game but I find having to pick and choose more engaging than getting everything
lament coral
I can't stand it. The flexibility afforded by the extra defiances, starting gold, increased boon rarity, and rerolls is not worth 1-3 heat.
sacred idol
oh, I don't play hell
mild crag
Playing with a maxed mirror just seems like it makes the game way too much easier
sacred idol
I am one of those people who dislikes cutting features.
mild crag
Is fair
lament coral
just increase the difficulty with modifiers that increase the difficulty instead of gimping you, the player
mild crag
I think that's unavoidable at 32 heat
sacred idol
that said, I also just generally like my difficulty to stay moderate
but either way I prefer things that don't gimp game mechanics
lament coral
entirely avoidable thanks to increased FO and Customs heat
mild crag
Oh I considered customs to be gimping the player
mild crag
Well I guess these conditions need to stay in for try hards like me
lament coral
when I did 32 heat Chaos shield in old hell I had to drop down to 1500 darkness
mild crag
1500 darkness is plenty
lament coral
kept dying to the timer in Elysium simply because I couldn't get the damage necessary to punch through
mild crag
lament coral
why? Common boons, or not getting attack/special
so after 6 failures with the timer I took it off and increased other values, and easily won on the 2nd try after
why? Because I got an epic Dio special in the 1st room
and then I never saw a single attack boon the entire run
mild crag
Well now that dying to the elysium timer is a separate issue too
Deadline is
Not suited to elysium
sacred idol
Elysium just feels imbalanced
mild crag
Agreed
It's apparent on any heat
But the difficulty jump is absurd
I can get to elysium comfortably on 50 heat given decent enough luck on a couple of boons
No DD used
Then I lose 4 DD and die in elysium
Shout out to skelly tooth and Pat
lament coral
50 heat
4 DD
mild crag
My mirror one, the skelly one, then two that patroclus gave me
Since he refills the skelly one too
lament coral
oh, you mean you lost both, then refilled both
mild crag
Yeah
The important thing is I died five times in that hellscape
And I've only once made it to the heroes with time left on the clock
Not enough to beat them with but still
I think it's possible with 9 minutes maybe
But too many invisible projectiles killed me in the heroes fight
So I gave up
mild crag
Oh if patty doesn't show up late in you're screwed for sure
lament coral
even 9 minutes wouldn't have helped
mild crag
You need to get patroclus and the shop
Ideally the reprieve room too but I don't think it's required
The butterfly boss is a good bonus too
Asterius takes a long time to kill and will probably kill you
lament coral
I was thinking about suggesting that Asterius shouldn't have invuln phases in the mini boss fight
mild crag
But the butterfly boss is fairly easy
lament coral
would help equalize the time it takes to beat the ball and the bull
mild crag
Yeah no other mini boss gets them
lament coral
I suppose barge gets em, in the form of wave spawns
mild crag
True
Oh the really cursed rooms in elysium
Are those ones that spawn 10 exalted
But two at a time
They take foreverr
lament coral
and they're all shields
sacred idol
mild crag
sacred idol
basically this.mp4
mild crag
Not false
mild crag
Paradise
Oh last time I tried
Got pat like room three when I hadn't lost any DD
I lost that one
Really is a case of the stars aligning
sacred idol
@gusty ice technically an f10 but funny
gusty ice
Oh aye probably, wasn't sure where to put it since it isn't exactly a bug
sacred idol
well it kinda is
sacred idol
well, it ain't rich text :^)
dim rapids
not sure if first run clear is possible unless you play absolutely like a madman and absolutely safe
it seems to force you into an elite chamber at elysum
sacred idol
has been done
dim rapids
damn
i've been trying first run clears but i always choke at asterius
life with 1 dash is so hard
gusty ice
Hmm, what do people think of a daedelus hammer idea for the sword, where it can interrupt armoured foes' attacks as well as normal ones? Could make it more viable imo
manic ermine
I don't think it would be better than swords armour shredding hammer, which is already the best of its type.
sacred idol
Armor shred hammers are all strictly inferior on melee
Because the big armor bonus is only really for barely salvaging a crap build in Elysium and maybe Styx, and it does NOT grant piercing.
Piercing is far more valuable generally, the armor is gravy
It might make up time in the rooms but the lack of a better effect on bosses sucks
dim rapids
is world splitter even good?
manic ermine
Very good
main citrus
I like the dash attack for the sword better
native ether
Double Edge is by far my favorite sword hammer
Triple Cluster shouldn't be a locked upgrade combo... Rocket Cluster exists and would be fine with 80 base damage. Maybe have a small penalty like reduced radius or lowering the damage to -40% if both hammers are present?
Scrolling through feedback, the only big reason I think this should be a locked combo is that this particular pair of upgrades is so much particle spam it makes me annoyed to use it, even if its powerful. Though in general, I'm not a fan of nerfing specific interactions between hammers. If the two hammers together are too powerful, they probably shouldn't be usable together.
green sable
its all perspective
dim rapids
so is it normal to not get aid by final boss 2 times in a row
native ether
entirely possible, its rng
wouldn't call it normal. From what I can tell the game will try to fill those main slots, but since you're rolling a pseudo-random generator, nothing is ever guaranteed
dim rapids
man that's so bad tho
native ether
Is and isn't in my opinion
green sable
RNG is this games forte
native ether
my problem with the game "forcing main boons" on you is that I don't always want a main boon, and if I'm say looking for an Athena Death Defiance recharge, I don't want some of those slots taken up because I haven't grabbed an aid boon (since I'm not always relying on one)
dim rapids
lmao i just bought the random athena boon in styx shop for aid as a final purchase
green sable
i don't like something?I sell it
the only things you can't sell is hammer upgrades
❤️
dim rapids
has anyone tried fog cast builds with poseidon sword?
turbid needle
Yes me
It deals good damage, but the poseido sword feels a bit lackluster, no real benefits
I pref the bow cast for Fog cast
But that's personal taste ofcourse
dim rapids
i mean just in general
got to clear heat runs with sword lol
and i haven't used hera from 0 heat till now
always chiron
turbid needle
I never played Chiro
yet
Pos I am at 13 I think
All cast ofcourse
Did ssome artemis, some ephro, dio
dim rapids
i've always either used hunting blades duo or artemis
turbid needle
It;s just very clear what benefits for pos sword
turbid needle
Fog and Zeus are good, fun most of all. And feel like a very hybrid playstyle even with pos sword
dim rapids
but then you're lacking artemis bonuses which is kinda feelsbad
at least artemis you can do bosses fast with exit wounds
and fog also has the problem of throw it then can't do anything cast related lmao
other casts you can at least get them back
thorny edge
with festive fog or casts like it you give up one of pos swords strong points - using special to get the bloodstones to spam them again
turbid needle
Yeah but fog with blackout is super good
dim rapids
you can't really apply hangover stacks fast
unless it's on dash or attack + flurry slash
personally i always stick to hunting blades duo combo
tried artemis, shredded bosses sure, but have trouble with mobbing in styx/elysum
untold quiver
I did my 7 or 8 heat run with fog
Posidon sword + fog + some of the in fog boons....the fog can hot like a truck with the sword
It was a run where using the flower didn't get me Aphrodite cast right out the gate (my fav cast with Posidon blade) so I took the next one figuring I could replace
@dim rapids what's you plan when you take Hades cast....but don't get hunting blades?
native ether
i assume you mean ares cast
dim rapids
cry i guess
i had a run where i didn't get hunting blades till last few rooms of styx
in those cases i usually try to cast silcing shots then knock them into it
helps if you have engulfing vortex
if you have engulfing vortex w/o hunting blades it's not so bad
i might decide to go back to big crit builds with nemesis on sword honestly
turbid needle
Whatever floats your boat Genesis, I was suprised by the standard spear yesterday
Gonna try to go a crit build with that now
native ether
if im trying to get hunting blades, I typically try to get an Artemis something and Ares cast before leaving Tartarus
turbid needle
I got artemis, ares and dem and didnt use a god keepsake yet!
orchid parcel
Hey everyone just joined the server, been playing Hades for awhile, has anyone else not gotten Demeter yet? I've gotten as far as the final battle of Elysium, but still haven't met her.
orchid parcel
Ok, I did win once but didn't get very far after haha
green sable
she shows up after
orchid parcel
Thanks
green sable
Sure hun
turbid needle
23 minutes heat 1 standard spear with normal rarity spear special XD
Aspect of Hades opinion?
chrome geyser
Good with spin charge hammer and high damage boons. Very similar to base; not a different playstyle.
I can vouch that you need to enter the last boss battle, but not have to beat them to get demeter. My first boon after getting to the surface and dying there was demeter.
orchid parcel
Probably a dumb question, but I haven't used extreme measures, what exactly does it do?
chrome geyser
https://hades.gamepedia.com/Pact_of_Punishment it modifies boss battles; each rank is one boss battle
turbid needle
Oh that one
chrome geyser
Tartarus is multiple furies. Asphodel is smaller hydra room with the main hydra becoming unchained later. Elysium is thesius embarrassing himself.
turbid needle
XD
OH YEAH
I got the b est act 1 ever
3x poseidon (on special knocks back and ruptures) + epic artemis cast shot with hermes incr cast speed and all coins I find are worth more.
trail timber
Elysium is Asterius carrying the fight.
turbid needle
This was a crazy run
I never had so much boons and alot were very good cause of exclusive acces duo boon
Weapon used was the Poseidon aspect of the Stygius (sword)
naive cobalt
When exclusive access was first introduced, I said it was OP in the feedback channel, and almost nobody agreed with me. :c
But it's certainly super exciting to get it early on
kind fulcrum
How does Cursed Slash interact with Old Spiked Collar?
Is the 25 hp from the collar reduced by 70%?
languid fjord
Everything is reduced
kind fulcrum
Alright cool thanks
solid cairn
Late but Aspect of Hades is probably the second worst aspect in the game
If someone beats 32 heat with that thing I will be impressed
naive tusk
Challenge accepted
solid cairn
I wish it had a move that Hades uses in his boss fight
Like the combo in phase 2
Or the skull
naive tusk
“Your cast is now a skull with stronger homing and deals more damage”
Check that out
Or makes the Boiling Blood bonus +50%
solid cairn
Skull would be weaker than standard special but do boiling blood that stacks with the one from casts
Also homing obviously
Would be hard to make it synergize with hammers
Exploding skulls tho
naive tusk
Energy 🌊
solid cairn
?
naive tusk
Energy waves lol
solid cairn
What about them
naive tusk
Well, when I get to finish all the bounties I need, I will give 32 Heat Hades Aspect a shot~
naive tusk
Congratz! 😊
jagged canopy
Still not sure which of: Demeter, Artemis, Aphro or Poseidon is the best special for Guan Spear
Demeter feels the best because of the slow
turbid needle
I just finished a Artemis (crit focus) + dem with Guan, first time ever with Guan
Really went smooth very nice weapon
turbid needle
@radiant pewter Running a Guan spear Demeter run atm, with dio fog resistance but the dem cold spear attack + legendary is brutal!
Oh nice. Ice wine duo! Festive fog also chills x)
coarse escarp
finally beat my first guan run just a bit ago
had a great combo with poseidon and zeus (double knockback, double lightning, w/ lighting on knockback)
managed to get both of the daedalus special upgrades as well
tidal thorn
I keep getting good Zues attack upgrades early and I'm always disappointed.
mild crag
Second worst is rough
There's at least a few worse
Like zag sword, zag rail, zag shield
native ether
worst aspect?
hmmmm
what does the zag spear do? I remember it being pretty unpopular but im sure its changed
zag sword isn't very popular but it is better than people give it credit for. I'd probably say Zag shield is the most useless cause you don't really need it if you're playing with the sole weapon that can block attacks in front of you
naive tusk
Zag spear powers up the special
mellow quest
it depends on what your conditions for "worst" are
because in terms of interesting playstyles/effects, the Zag aspects are very bad at that
naive tusk
When Zag aspects get pooped on
mellow quest
as for most pointless/useless I'd have to say Zag shield, damage reduction barely matters when you an already block just about everything
naive tusk
You know they should get a tweak 😅
mellow quest
and then the value is not very high at max so it's not even that relevant when you do get hit
naive tusk
Max lv is 10% damage reduction right?
mild crag
DR seems better suited to sword tbh
Like 20% DR for 1 second after you damage an enemy
Encourage all out attack
native ether
Zag aspects do nothing to change playstyle but some of them are pretty good. Bow is pretty good, Rail is good given that there are more Daedalus hammers, and there are less that give you more or infinite ammo now (and infinite ammo forces a burst fire)
Zag sword is stronger than people give credit because increased dash distance is useful for avoiding damage and hits if you learn the distance.
That should be a sword thing in general (mainly just when using Special). Shouldn't be tied to an aspect imo. Its not easy to level up that effect, and the increased move speed and dash distance are fun to play around with when you get used to them.
mellow quest
straight crit chance on the zag bow is just not very creative. why should I play with that when the hera and chiron bow are far more engaging
native ether
Because its unironically good. Sure its boring, but its good.
Same how extra ammo on the rail is good, but boring. (Rail also has the advantage that its other 2 aspects are likely 2 of the strongest (if not the actual strongest) aspects in the game, so you'll never see anyone using the extra ammo)
mellow quest
it's sort of difficult to care about the ammo when you can special or dash during the reload time and your options are either 60% extra global damage or the empowered shot that always gives you a hard hitting option regardless of what the end result of the build is
fallow niche
The 32 heat WR is getting a ton of challenges in such a short period of time 
mild crag
Forge shaking in their booties
naive tusk
👆🏼
mild crag
Rail is best weapon forever and always
naive tusk
You like to shoot them in the face
green sable
i never liked the rail...
karmic coyote
you must be a bow and spear person like me, am i correct or am i correct
naive tusk
Shield Baaash
thorny edge
so im doing a hunting blades build
got the duo easily annnd a +56% cast damage from chaos
but my god does ares have a lot of awful boons when you're trying too get anything to buff blade rifts
turbid needle
Yeeaaahhhh.
silent depot
when you guys beat hades for the first time did you just restart with a hell mode file or kept going with the normal file?
turbid needle
Kept playing.
mellow quest
ares is basically 2 gods with conflicting build paths
inland sail
charged throiw or dashing wallop?
mellow quest
because blade rifts are one thing and doom is another
turbid needle
DW.
inland sail
thx boo
turbid needle
But each half is potentially the strongest build.
mellow quest
doom is easily weaker than putting together a hangover build
turbid needle
Merciful End.
mellow quest
and the pairings with hangover are stronger than pairings with doom
inland sail
how the hecjk do you pary?
turbid needle
Hold Attack to block.
inland sail
charge blocks?
mild crag
Nah doom is way stronger than hangover with the right build
Merciful End is just absolutely insane, not to say Low Tolerance builds are weak (they're great still)
Low tolerance weak hehehe get it
formal hill
I finally beat the final boss ;A;
sorry to jump in, I am just very excited ;3;
I feel a little cheap with one of the boons i used though : S
but a win is a win!
mild crag
Hades is pretty cheap how he summons goons to fight for him too 
formal hill
😂
I got the uh
this was my build
but uh, there was a boon that made chilled enemies shatter at 10%?
my special carried me 100% through this
first time ever getting demeter boons too!
so thank u grandma and gun, 😂
inland sail
IMAGINE GETTING TO THE BOSS AND HAVING THE CURSE WHERE EVERYTIME YOU ATTACK YOUI LOSE 3 HEALKTH.... sorry didnt meantto put caps on
silent depot
hades just a god i got MISSILS BABY
formal hill
lmaooo
I never play with Gun!!!
I have such a hard time!!!
and oh no hunner im so sorry 😂
i usually only take chaos if i can get them in uh, tart
which,,,, is what made this run so incredible
inland sail
i gave up...
formal hill
i got dem on my special, got a thing that made my special more powerful, a hammer to slowdown those in my special radius.....
it was BONKERS.
i was like "oh ok we doing a special run now"
and just pommed and got the weirdest set of boons 😂
it was funny to realize i was doing decay damage to thesius or w.e and big bull boy
i played it on discord call and my gf went "wait, are they going to shatter at 10%?" and i was like "no way, they're bosses there's no--"
and then Twunk shattered and I was like : oooooo
and then we had that same convo at the hades boss fight (where i only usually get to his second phase like...once. ive never gotten to it after the first time i did)
and i was like "I'll feel so cheap if it does 😂 "
but hey, it worked : V
im so happy 😭
now I just have to....do it for the rest.....
but im so sorry, @inland sail that really sucks; ive gotten boons like that right before a boss bc i messed up my count
i think one time it was uh
if you dashed you lost health
and it was against ragey fate : p
silent depot
yeh that's where im at idk if i want to restart with a hell mode file or not, but it looks like hell mode just adds a affix but not really and locks in a few rank 1 heats but that's it
hollow sorrel
It used to allow you to max your mirror way sooner, which meant you were on equal footing with other people
silent depot
yeah it sounded like it used to do more
like doing a lot of heat in either mode doesn't sound that different if at all
lament coral
hell mode just delays your bounties by 5 levels
on normal, you get bounties from 0 to 20, while on hell it's 5 to 25
mild crag
you also have to play on the bounty heat
if you beat it with heat 5 on the rail
you must play at least 6 heat
for the next run
mild crag
or throwing runs
lament coral
can't wait for the new weapon so that I could start farming darkness with 5 heat
doing so on 23 is a bit tough
mild crag
next patch mirror is getting a rework anyway
lament coral
allegedly
they said they're working on a darkness rework, not that it's coming next patch
lament coral
the dev map button says that they're working on a darkness rework, not that it's coming next patch
green sable
push the button frank.
lament coral
the next patch tidbit only mentions the new weapon and some "other" changes
I'm also wondering if the weapon will actually require 51 blood to max, too
or if they'll hold onto the 4th aspect
lament coral
no hints whatsoever?
green sable
i still hold hope the new weapons are pistols...dual ❤️
mild crag
noh
not to fishing either
except them saying "Expect the unexpected" or alluding to surprises
I can't remember exactly what
silent depot
part of me wants to make a hell mode to make sure im maxing out the pain lol
lament coral
fishing is kind of a minor thing compared to weapons or gods
it's nice, but it doesn't blow my socks off
especially since I'm yet to see a fishing pool in Chaos
mild crag
chaos yoinked all the fish
hollow sorrel
The mirror is weird right now. Because most people avoid budget cuts, the mirror ends up being a final fantasy sphere grid, where you just throw points in it, and forget about it
mild crag
join me, come to the budget cuts side
silent depot
I assume it maxes out or does it just go on 5ever
mild crag
maxes out
after you spend like 170k darkness on it
since the last upgrades get really expensive
lament coral
I'm definitely not forgetting about it
it's just that I can't afford to take all of the Chaos darkness boosters
cuz you know, I'm on high heat and tryna win and stuff
lament coral
the only exception to this are Chaos shield runs where I can do whatever
like putting Poseidon on my attack and special
and painting the walls with enemies
mild crag
Poseidon weapon boons 
lament coral
it's a lot of fun though
hollow sorrel
Even if you don't have the mirror maxed, people probably just have everything except the last 3 things maxed, and those points are set in stone
lament coral
but the damage is crap
hollow sorrel
like, why bother moving the points around between runs, at infinite darkness
mild crag
you can max everything except rarity, fated authority and the 3rd death defiance with budget cuts on
lament coral
well, for once, it's highly inconvenient to have to go your bedroom in order to tweak the mirror
and the other issue is, should the run go sour and you don't get the needed boons, you can't fall back onto cast if you have no extra casts
mild crag
1 extra cast is really cheap
lament coral
I mean, you could, but with 1 cast...
mild crag
its like 20 darkness
hollow sorrel
I think when I'm on 2,500 darkness, I have the third DD, but I'm missing all the gold, and half the HP
mild crag
the hp and gold are really expensive comparatively
lament coral
and 20% boon boost
hollow sorrel
the first extra cast is super cheap. I think I even have it when I'm 2,000 darkness
lament coral
no gold but full HP
mild crag
my 500 darkness is
- extra dash
- 1 death defiance
- 1 extra cast
- 50% priv status
- +25 hp
lament coral
sounds about right, though I never went that low
hollow sorrel
yeah, that sounds perfect
lament coral
1500 is my limit
silent depot
so i get the vibe that should run normal, and a lot of heat is still a lot of heat, you max the mirror quicker but you would max out eventually anywys, the 1 extra heat from hell more or less doesn't do that much
lament coral
the thing to keep in mind about heat, is that it doesn't affect the story
hollow sorrel
That 1 extra heat from hell mode allows the 3rd and 4th boss to wombo combo you to death
mild crag
but there's special heat lines
lament coral
so if you just wanna play for the story, you can do so without twisting your hair trying to figure out which pact options to move
rancid shore
maybe a dumb question, but can you turn god mode on when you have hell mode?
lament coral
no
mild crag
you cannot
rancid shore
makes sense; was just wondering
mild crag
only heat options i recommend everybody try eventually are extreme measures tho tbh
mild crag
matters less since there's no new dialogue
lament coral
sure
hollow sorrel
crushing rock dude's middle management upgrade seems a bit harsh for newer players
for the 2nd biome even
silent depot
alright im just gonna do hell mode I want to TAKE IT TO THE LIMIT
mild crag
its actually pretty easy to avoid the shockwave if you dont have forced overtime on
hollow sorrel
oh
they made forced overtime so many heat points, that I feel like I can't ever turn it off
mild crag
its just with 40% overtime it is a massive pain
rancid shore
is middle management actually doable now?
lament coral
yeah, the rock is fine without FO
rancid shore
the barge of death would always end my runs with it
crystal geyser
interesting that's the first time i get it https://i.imgur.com/JRY4VbW.png
hollow sorrel
murderboat got nerfed
mild crag
middle management is only difficult if you get megagorgon
tartarus is kekw middle management
barge is not too bad
hollow sorrel
the fact that the gorgon can teleport, then instant attack, right before a rock comes down is mehhhhh
mild crag
the butterfly ball doesnt change much
and asterius doesnt at all
@hollow sorrel i agree
lament coral
I was actually thinking about making another Asterius suggestion
hollow sorrel
asterirus' spin attack, as a mini boss, isn't from middle management?
balmy brook
hi why does asterius and thesus has golden armor???
lament coral
have MM remove the 2 pillars in Asterius fight
mild crag
ive given feedback before that the gorgon instantly teleporting and instantly attacking is not fair
hollow sorrel
(I always have both those pacts on)
lament coral
@balmy brook Extreme Measures 3
mild crag
@balmy brook because you turned extreme measures on?
mild crag
anybody remember when the asterius mini boss had gorgon heads
lament coral
that sounds awful
lament coral
could they petrify the bull?
mint jackal
mild crag
i dont think so
lament coral
Chaos shield?
rare salmon
So I have enough to fully upgrade another weapon... should I go for Hestia Rail, Chiron Bow, Zeus Shield, Guan Yu Spear, or Nemesis or Poseidon Sword?
hollow sorrel
The shield, rail, and spear aren't that bad. Bow and Sword is kind of garbage for tight deadline combined with lots of other heat pacts
lament coral
Guan Yu
lament coral
you'll hate it, and then you'll love it
mild crag
Former WRs were held by chaos shield too
hollow sorrel
guan yu gives you a couple of free heat points, because you can -100% healing
lament coral
^
trail timber
if you don't die before the spin charges up
mild crag
you can take -100% healing if you know what you're doing
and by that i mean get quick spin
hollow sorrel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTbmcpQO4ck You can do the final boss, with Guan Yu, using zero spear spins
sacred idol
Although if you get hit by Hades without enough Centaur Hearts or zero Thick Skin...
It'll be the aspect of Gone You
hollow sorrel
just keep throwing the OP spear
rare salmon
@sacred idol I only listed the good ones 😛 I've already got Hera Bow, Eris Rail, Chaos Shield, a couple others unlocked. I'm not unlocking the bad ones 😛
I am super tempted to try out the good swords. I assume I'd be better off going Poseidon with Artemis Cast?
mild crag
hestia rail - fun and strong if you like playing sniper style
chiron bow - fun but not that strong
zeus shield - havent used cause its weird
guan yu spear - fun and really broken op
nemesis sword - fun gimmick but not really that great or much of an improvement on base sword
poseidon sword - nuts sword which has the world record speedrun with artemis cast
the thing about the poseidon sword is
the sword is still not good
it just makes the cast better
but i suppose you can call it a good sword since you technically have the sword in your hand
rare salmon
Right - but I mean, that's why I want to try it. I've never really focused on Cast 🙂
That effect could be on any weapon, you'd still be killing everything with your cast.
Thanks for the notes @mild crag - your notes make me want to go with either Guan Yu or the Poseidon Sword. Possible Hestia Rail.
sacred idol
Yeah lul, it's a good cast with a sword in it
mild crag
yeah sword sucks but +50% cast damage and free dislodge is where it's at
hollow sorrel
the nemesis sword started to get worse as I cranked up the heat levels. The enemies ended up attacking so much that I'm spending a lot of time not attacking with the sword
sacred idol
Chiron can be strong, just not as strong as Hera or as reliable as Zagreus
mild crag
sword is just a bad weapon in general for high heat
hollow sorrel
I really did like it at default enemy speed though
mild crag
(casts are still good)
sacred idol
Incidentally, I don't think Achilles is bad?
sacred idol
Nemesis is pretty good...
mild crag
but only cause of hunting blades
rancid shore
wow 8 of the 10 top speedrun times are for sword
sacred idol
At 35 it was a WR holder, 5% less doesn't make it bad
mellow quest
is there a worse feeling than Hades teleporting at the last second and ignoring all of the damage from the already lackluster Artemis call
hollow sorrel
That doesn't mean it's good though. It just means it's good at perfect play with the perfect seed
mild crag
when did nemesis sword ever have WR
hollow sorrel
speedruns can be very unreliable at showing you how well a weapon does in most games
mild crag
welcome to hell was dominated by chaos shield/merciful end
i know a while back sword was the speedrun weapon
sacred idol
Or if not, it was at least considered very good in general
mild crag
but that was before they gutted double nova
mellow quest
also as far as I can tell Hades speedruns are done with optimal seeds so whatever
sacred idol
Overtime does sound like a huge issue for the Sword though.
hollow sorrel
overtime made me drop the sword
mild crag
@mellow quest yes hades speedruns are seeded
rancid shore
not all of them
hollow sorrel
hestia is my favorite 32 heat weapon, then chaos shield, then guan-yu
rancid shore
looks like current 8th was random
rare salmon
Right - I didn't include Achilles, but maybe should have?
mellow quest
you'll set up the perfect scenario for the weapon so of course it'll look good
mild crag
the top ones are seeded then
sacred idol
Swords feel like they have a more systematic issue than anything.
Not the aspects but the base weapon
mild crag
yeah i agree
bright mulch
I think for sword to be viable there need to be some more tweaks to the special
sacred idol
Maybe Zagreus Aspect's movement stuff should be innate to the sword moveset and dodge chance as its stat?
bright mulch
Since of the weapons I think it needs special weaving the most
mild crag
sword probably needs some more mobility yeah
sacred idol
It needs mobility, it's designed as a hit and run weapon with no defense
rare salmon
@hollow sorrel Those first two are the weapons I've had the most success with. Probably means I should pick up Guan-Yu next? 😉
sacred idol
And the special should just. Not have lag
mellow quest
also I just heard the line from hades where you are marked with one of his bloodstones, "Do you feel your blood beginning to boil?"
Boiling Blood is literal
sacred idol
You know?
mellow quest
oof
bright mulch
mellow quest
owie
bright mulch
Triple Rockets coming in for the carry again
mild crag
anybody here remember t-pose zag sword special?
sacred idol
The sword should have minimal start and endlag on all moves because it has zero innate defensives
bright mulch
I do lol
sacred idol
No range, no blocking
bright mulch
Hunter Dash Hestia is fun to look at but man does it kinda emphasize that hestia feels clunky to play
mild crag
it was instant and had ending lag instead
bright mulch
With the constant reloads
rare salmon
Oh wait, @hollow sorrel - you said Hestia. I haven't unlocked that yet. I thought you were talking about Hera Bow.
sacred idol
Like I said, remove both start and end lag on special.
mild crag
hestia feels fine to play you just need the rhythm
hollow sorrel
yeah, I meant hesita
mild crag
also probably a rebind to something nicer to reload with
rare salmon
Yeah, I just can't read.
mild crag
if you're on kbm, a mouse button
rancid shore
anyone else find it weird that you can cancel sword special but not bow special?
mild crag
if you're on gamepad anything but the default
its more strange that enemies can hit you out of sword special
rancid shore
that's weird too
hollow sorrel
the sword special needs to interrupt armored enemies, or something, to give you enough time to 3-hit combo, because enemies can attack so fast at max speed, that I often dash cancel into special, attack maybe once, and I have to waste time dashing out again
bright mulch
I think for sword, at least basic sword, it might be nice if a small dash was rolled into the special by default
This covers the start up, which I think is much worse than the end lag, and enables Shadow Blade to actually more easily accure value
Because right now it feels awkward to try and run shadow blade
hollow sorrel
I'm not sure how the sword would work at all if I couldn't dash cancel into the special
swarms of skulls at max speed would be near impossible without it
bright mulch
And I think it fits because sword is the only one with a backstab hammer
? I'm saying make dash cancel into special a default feature
hollow sorrel
I thought the bow special had zero startup though?
rancid shore
do you mean like if you could aim the special aoe sorta like the rail special and it would dash you over there?
bright mulch
No just when you special it does a small dash forward and at the end you cast your special
You can do it right now in the game lol
hollow sorrel
can't you just dash, then hit special at teh end?
mild crag
The bow special has no startup but it roots you for the duration and you can't cancel it
bright mulch
It just takes 2 button presses instead of one
hollow sorrel
oh, I meant dash cancelling to chop off some of the starting lag frames
rancid shore
That's sort of what I was envisioning Kossetsu
mild crag
Yeah meant to piggyback off your suggestion
hollow sorrel
leap would be amazing. It would allow it to still be a fully melee weapon, but get around the walls of projectiles that make zag just stand there and wait
mild crag
Then you could be dashing around and leaping like a man possessed
rancid shore
That would make it nicer I think, even if they didn't tweak any iframes at all. Since you're not directly at the point of contact, you're less likely to get hit, but you still end up there
sacred idol
Guys, please post that one alongside mine
I posted "rework sword pls"
But the leap idea sounds even better than just animation cleanup on special
mild crag
@rancid shore you can post it since it was your idea first 
rancid shore
sure
lament coral
so basically, you want Asterius' leap to replace the current sword special?
mild crag
Yes
rancid shore
a baby version of it, yes
sacred idol
Come on and slam!
lament coral
sounds good, I'm sold
mild crag
Introduces more hammer upgrade opportunities too
thorny edge
weapon 6 but its just the aura from pyre
sacred idol
🅱️all
mild crag
SGG employee agrees with the suggestion it's totally in 
karmic coyote
they both agree and disagree, hmm troublesome
mild crag
the duality of man
opal bay
If only the same employee disagrees. Caitlin keeps up the neutral state that was on while Styxbot was up. 😔
sacred idol
4Head
mellow quest
im coming around on Flood Shot for cast
green sable
not like the higher ups see what we post ❤️
mellow quest
used to feel it was one of the weaker ones but Im thinking blade rift cast is slightly worse (but scales better into hunting baldes/upgrades)
mild crag
flood shot is one of the better ones i think
mellow quest
and that the chain lightning cast is unreliable for getting boiling blood as well as actually bouncing off enemies
mild crag
zeus or athena have the worst cast
mellow quest
plus it can;t bounce off the same foe
mild crag
oh oh have you noticed that sometimes
the zeus cast just like
doesnt arc to enemies
it just arcs away
mellow quest
phalanx shot deflects so it's really really nice imo, especially in the fury fight
and it's one of the harder hitting casts
mellow quest
that said the duo boon that makes phalanx shot bounce off enemies
congratulations on disabling boiling blood i guess
mellow quest
at least the demeter cast melts off chunks of health bars to make up for the boiling blood loss
mellow quest
and while festive fog is awkward it eventually gets stupid with damage output
- utility
fiery shale
I like posiedons cast
green sable
now I've used Festive fog myself and Dio's grenades is awesome
fiery shale
esp with Hera bow because it basically pierces
like if the first two casts kill the enemy
green sable
the problem i have with it you need to take boons with it to make it worth it
fiery shale
the 3rd will go on
mild crag
festive fog is beri good
mild crag
potentially yes
green sable
I'm almost agreeing with that
fiery shale
so I've not been using the others quite as much
chaos shield is so consistent it's ridiculous
mild crag
best all-rounder
fiery shale
any damage boosting or Dio special just makes it an easy run
mild crag
every run with chaos shield is easy
green sable
I still think Gaun Yu spear is tops so far.....but any spear with explody with arti crits is so sweet
mild crag
the only ones you lose are the ones where you become impatient
mellow quest
chaos aspect shield is probably the most well rounded weapon, no real weakness
fiery shale
with quick spin it's perfect
mild crag
shield just always carries the danger of putting me to sleep
mellow quest
the Zeus aspect is also very very good now
fiery shale
Zeus feels slow
mellow quest
but you sorta have to upgrade it
fiery shale
for anything but bosses
mellow quest
and while it's good it's slow
fiery shale
it's good against bosses but clearing big rooms it's painful
tidal thorn
Chaos aspect is nuts. I'm just stomping through low heats.
trim solar
just clear big rooms with dash strike no?
mellow quest
i haven't played with guan yu much still, not a fan of how expensive the upgrades are
sacred idol
@mellow quest Might want to edit to specify whether you think the trove reduction is an issue.
tidal thorn
With some really mild builds sometimes.
fiery shale
sort of yeah but most of your power will be in your special
if you're using Zeus shield
mellow quest
@sacred idol im not even sure if it's a bug or intended
fiery shale
and that's really slow clearing rooms
tidal thorn
I kinda "get" Guan Yu but I just need to get better at it.
mellow quest
or even that nasty O word
tidal thorn
It's amazing it comes with Explosive. Like wtf.
mellow quest
an Oversight
opal bay
Guan Yu must be fully upgraded too
fiery shale
oh yea
it sucks at level 1
for the same reason cursed slash sucks
70% is too much
mellow quest
it's pretty difficult to foresee every consequence of interactions in a game like hades after all
mild crag
cursed slash is a cursed upgrade
fiery shale
70% is way too much as a hammer upgrade
GY comes with it and the lifesteal off the bat
slash you need to give up some other key upgrades and then it cuts your health to nothing
spear lets you play safe with dash attack and special and with GY it has a spin that's a projectile
sword doesn't let you play safe at all
mellow quest
i've only taken cursed slash with flurry slash and that run ended up with me facetanking everything on 13 heat and proccing the impervious gates
healing to full during them
easiest stroll through Elysium ever
fiery shale
I'll never take cursed slash as my first hammer upgrade
too early in the run
bricks a run so easily
second I can consider it because my build is a little more fleshed out and ya
I might have flurry slash or something
mellow quest
it seems like infernal troves with health also don't tick their value down properly with lasting consequences maybe? the spacing is very erratic
in hindsight, maybe taking -60% move speed in Elysium as a Chaos downside was a bad idea with 40% overtime. especially if the next room is going to be flamewheel + chariot spam
mild crag
mellow quest
aw, one of the Cerberus messages spoils what's inside the satyr sacks
lament coral
pretty sure the squeaking you hear when you pick up the sack tells you what's inside pretty clearly
chrome geyser
is cursed blade one time reduction of max health?
lament coral
max HP and HP gain, same deal as Guan Yu
chrome geyser
cause i remember i took it after getting flurry and raised my health to around 120
gotcha
green sable
i swear to god RNG really hates me
gusty nexus
Why's that LadyCheri?
green sable
I had a great rail run and in ONE room at the end i lost 3 DD's in a row
then final boss room i got RNG boned
it was SO quick...im kind of upset i didn't lost ONE DD till then
opaque merlin
I'm not sure how I feel about Hazard Bomb being allowed when you have Aspect of Eris
mild crag
i feel negatively about it
opaque merlin
I do like each separately, though
green sable
i feel impure....
opaque merlin
just crit Asterius for 2k
mellow quest
it doesn't matter what you do to Asterius, you'll always be the short one
opaque merlin
indeed
mellow quest
i've got a really sweet athena attack + exposed status w/ artemis special rocket adamant rail on Eris aspect going
i can get close to 1.5k crits on backstabs with the rocket
turbid needle
With that set-up you should be able to push upwards of 2k.
mellow quest
all i need is something like drunken dash or the weak cast
to get priv status going
turbid needle
Ooh, yeah.
I got Heart Rend World Splitter once and landed a single 4k crit on Hades.
mellow quest
honestly though the more i play w/ the rail the more certain I feel that the bomb is better than the rocket for Tartarus specifically
and then after that the rocket is better
lament coral
Hazard bomb just needs to not deal self-damage
I'd trade that for slightly less damage
opaque merlin
I'm playing around with it now and it can work pretty well with the Broken Spearpoint
opaque merlin
I mean to trigger the invulnerability window to shrug off bigger hits
I do not have the triple
I do have a level 3 heroic Poseidon boon on it, though
The self-hit is for around 8 damage
opaque merlin
lol, that was an amazing suicide
clipped myself with the edge of the Hazard Bomb and the knockback from Poseidon special shoved me through 3 of the green grabber things in the Hades fight
mellow quest
selling a duo boon and then using the gold to buy the duo boon and another boon at the charon store in the temple
Stonks
mild crag
📈
opaque merlin
yep
mellow quest
super secret Artemis + Poseidon boon in #h1-tech-support
frosty pier
Reminds me then I got stuck in Sword special animation then it was a glorified T-pose.
Too Bad Hydra was not feeling intimidated that day.
fading sandal
lethal plank
yesterday i discovered I'm terrible at using the bow fun fact
any tips on how to handle hera bow? i always mis-manage my cast and usually just throw them at the wall
sage mica
Ah, no
Was talking about regular special
Thats a trick i use to make sure i hit all special arrows
lethal plank
yeah i usually do that strat when i have stack DoTs
so dio and dem
hera bow is a little harder to manage cus the power shot is slower n my brain farts anytime i load the cast
lament coral
Hera is often paired with Dio cast for AOE damage and enemy stagger
gauge how many casts it takes to kill an enemy and load the necessary amount in your shot
hardy crow
I just had a build with so much burst damage
I ignored the Hades summons
lmao
Loading 6 casts into a twin shot would immediately do over 1/3 his health
So I just ran away in the 5s I needed to wait for my bloodstones to drop and immediately dash attack him again to trigger phase
Completely ignoring the goons
frosty pier
that's a spicy one
versed tide
artemis cast is just silly
I understand crits on attack/special since you're going to use them so often the RNG will smooth out
but cast/call is limited and 10% is playing DPS roulette
mellow quest
It's a hard hitting and more accurate cast that can spike its output, only deal downside is it's one of the slower projectiles (still faster than base bloodstone tho) and doesn't have aoe
main citrus
It's a boss killer, mostly
frosty pier
The best quality of that Cast, is that you can ignore Theseus and shieldboys.
fiery shale
it pierces shields?
frosty pier
Y E S
versed tide
Crit isn't a real "mechanic" like deflect, knockback, doom or poison are
kindred bolt
does cursed blade still suck after the update? is it worth going in the game and trying it?
it was 1 hp per hit last i playefd
played*
fiery shale
still sucks
sacred folio
It's just buffed to 2hp healing per hit.
kindred bolt
thats terrifyingly bad, if its gonna be so tiny, they should remove the hp penalty
fiery shale
woah now
slow down there
without an hp penalty it would be busted
but i do agree that it's too high
kindred bolt
even with 1 hp?
fiery shale
lifesteal on your main attack? i daresay so, yeah
kindred bolt
fine, then reduce the hp penalty, its too big for 1-2 hp/hit
neon tapir
I... Like that aspect? Like, I guess on higher heat it gets worse, but I like the risk/reward it brings. And a good special build with Daedalus and Artemis deals insane crits. I’ve had some of my easiest runs using it
fiery shale
what aspect
neon tapir
Guan Yu
fiery shale
no one was talking about GY
neon tapir
That’s... the aspect that reduces health and gives lifesteal...
neon tapir
Ah
neon tapir
I’m tired xD
Ignore me
I do think the HP negative on Cursed Slash is way too high. Either decrease the negative or make you do more damage (sorta like a glass cannon upgrade I guess)
mellow quest
Guan yu is pretty bad without upgrades
It feels bad tbh, it sorta is a gatekeeper upgrade and it's the most expensive aspect so far
mellow quest
Chiron is pretty bad at first but none of the other aspects are quite as offensive
mild crag
and less than the 3rd aspect
versed tide
well it's more of a general philosophy for the game to lock the "true" power of weapons behind a grind
I was shocked when I first unlocked bouldy
450 extra gold per run + heal
mellow quest
I also think there is a difference between upgrading something to be stronger and upgrading something so you are less weakened by it
dim rapids
holy crap
guan yu special with chaos boons is pretty broken
was doing 4.6k crits on final boss
neon tapir
It’s truly a sight to behold
dim rapids
epic artemis special + blinding flash + heart rend + boiling blood + privileged status + backstab bonus + some other extras like weak/chaos boons = 4.6k crits
neon tapir
I really want us to be able to hit 9999 damage at some point and for Thanatos to mention it
dim rapids
you can amplify than's damage with the tier 2 weak amplify boon
he deals 5 digits
it was pretty fun to chunk final boss hp down
dusky steeple
What's a perfect clear?
sacred folio
Seems that I've been seeing a lot of Charged Skewer victories lately.
rugged estuary
Guan Yu charged skewer is still kinda broken
sacred folio
I must give it a shot myself even though I tend to stay away from unsafe charging attacks
rugged estuary
with guan you, you instantly get max range without charging
dim rapids
perfect clear - just have to end with full hp
rugged estuary
its just the damage that ramps up
so it removes the usual downside of charging which is that you cant fast fire any more
sacred folio
That sounds like really broken. Gotta get my 32 heat win with it before it gets patched out
dim rapids
it's not really that broken
you can do 32 heat on shield easily i'm pretty sure
also in most of my guan yu runs i usually don't go for charged skewer unless i have no options
usually i just go for quick + massive spin for easy clears
quick + massive spin guarantees you clear all rooms
don't really need massive spin
rugged estuary
I can't manage 32 heat runs, no matter with what.
People say it's easy with shield, but I suck.
dim rapids
if you have quick + charged skewer it's probably the best combo
sacred folio
Good to know. Right now I'm still slowly ramping up my heat levels to prepare my self for the real thing
dim rapids
that is of course if you build crit on special
rugged estuary
with guan yu, I can handle most rooms, but I get hit by a boss once and lose a death defiance.
dim rapids
then you can go with skewer related builds i guess
neon tapir
The big thing about the Skewer build is the range. Nice safety
mellow quest
32 heat shield isn't much different from low heat, honestly what matters most is if no choice is on or if you are at 40% overtime
rugged estuary
@mellow quest How do you do it? Maybe I'm missing something crucial.
mellow quest
Block cheese mostly
And chaos aspect fully upgraded
That clears rooms the fastest
rugged estuary
Hm. Yeah, I can't manage that. The block feels to inconsistent. I get hit through blocks a lot.
Hades laser goes through blocks, the small chariots bounce off your shield and into you and explode behind your shield
mellow quest
I don't know what the exact block angle is
But it feels like roughly 100°
And for AoEs you have to be facing inwards towards the center and near the edge
The hades laser is 100% blockable with the shield
Even the shockwaves from the stones can be blocked
fiery shale
hades everything is unblockable isnt it
you might have to turn slightly for his cast but that's about it
mellow quest
I think the only truly unblockable thing in that fight are the urn AoEs