I mean, but fat butterfly ball is painful in Hades' fight
#h1-builds-and-combat
sacred idol
bright mulch
Zag Must Die
sacred idol
having a nearly unkillable orb of AOE hurty things is not good
lament coral
nah, I feel that chariots and archers are the biggest pain when fighting Hades
sacred idol
balls do kind of flood the map with butterflies if left unkilled
bright mulch
While I hate butterfly ball, Chariots are the actual worst
lament coral
all weapons have options to deal with butterflies tho
sacred idol
but Chariots really are just evil in general
Like I've mentioned before.
Chariots and Asterius turn too sharply.
bright mulch
Chariots just feel tedious to fight
sacred idol
It's ludicrous and definitely imbalanced
They go forward WAY too fast to outrun, turn in almost as tight a radius as Zagreus save for the 30 degrees of safety
or 45
bright mulch
Like If they had 1/4 the health maybe but the long exercise in kiting to avoid damage and kill them isn't hard it's just boring
sacred idol
and yeah, their charges last eternity
rancid shore
it's weird that the one of the mini-bosses for elysium is literally just half the area boss; maybe that'd be a better spot for grey exalted like how the "mini-boss" is in tartarus
bright mulch
The thing that makes minibosses harder
What does it do for Bull 1v1? Never seen that
lament coral
nothing, I believe
bright mulch
boo
rancid shore
it doesn't apply since the boss pact option applies instead
manic ermine
extreme measures changes miniboss mino
bright mulch
Oh neat
sacred idol
I like Miniboss Asterius.
He's fun without Theseus being a giant ass in the background
Even with the cheap... bull-crap... of his charge turning
manic ermine
If I've brought the shattered shackle miniboss asterius is a pushover
rancid shore
I like his dialogue and how he acts there; it just seems a little out of place mechanically
manic ermine
3 or 4 pillars and the fight is over
naive tusk
Correction: the extreme measures DOES apple to solo Asterius as well
It happened to me twice already
sacred idol
🍎
bright mulch
Cool, I haven't done EM high enough to see the new stuff for Rocky and Bullwinkle
rancid shore
asterius doesn't change from middle management at all
trail sparrow
I... I took eris aspect...
sacred idol
rocky and bullwinkle, lmao
trail sparrow
And then I picked hazard bomb...
sacred idol
OOF
bright mulch
Lol me too
naive tusk
Big oof
sacred idol
the one mistake that will kill you
trail sparrow
I didnt know...
bright mulch
Big reason how an otherwise great run went to crap
trail sparrow
Gg I guess
bright mulch
I didn't think about it till like 2 rooms after
manic ermine
you can dash iframe the hazard bomb to get eris buff
sacred idol
ah, another thing to iframe while being smacked by a boss :p
if you're that much of a badass, I guess
I can barely iframe Hades' spinny doom consistently.
No way in the Underworld I'd pull that off enough to live
rancid shore
simple solution: just die and start over 
sacred idol
5Head
bright mulch
Zag is gonna need Dodge Offset and 3 more dashes with all this dodging we're supposed to do in end-game lol
Especially at higher heat
naive tusk
Or deal with it like a boss 😎
bright mulch
Just build 400 Health and Face Tank like a real man
naive tusk
At first I thought the red tiny * was a joke. It was not 
bright mulch
That run makes me mad at myself because I had like 3 good builds at once but they didn't mesh with each other at all
-Amazing Hazard Poseidon Special that was hitting for like 600 with double debuff
-Decent Hunting Blades loadout that was shredding people
-Delta chamber with Demter chill, Chill explosion, and epic support fire
If I had just spammed one I would have won easy, but I was trying to juggle all three to like max DPS and I died to being stupid lol
rancid shore
oh hazard poseidon must be so much fun
rancid shore
i imagine that would be insane with Sea Storm
bright mulch
Honestly it was the Styx rooms and poison that got me, since all three don't deal their damage immediately I kept getting clipped with poison or other dumb stuff because styx
Lost a DD there that would've got me through phase 2 probably
rancid shore
did you pet the dog for good luck?
bright mulch
Yas
The Hazard on Eris was the biggest mistake though by far, since Hunting Blades and Attacks don't synergize but I had flurry so I could've just fired and forget
It was trying to weave in Specials that was too much, especially since they made the Eris buff basically not a thing
rancid shore
you probably could have done it real easy if you hadn't touched special at all
bright mulch
Yeah basically lol
It was a REAL good build that went down the drain which is frustrating lol
The Hubris
naive tusk
@lament coral regarding that new feedback. How do you think Erebus would change when the punishment is on?
lament coral
oh, you know how it'd change
sacred idol
Horde killing mode
With rewards that persist into the main escape, I guess
that'd actually make Poseidon instant top tier for it
lament coral
Erebus gate will be renamed into Onion gate
bright mulch
Timed rooms are basically horde mode right
sacred idol
Poseidon is a monster for add clear, his current niche-ness is entirely because his boss killing power without several stacks of supplementary is near 0
No, I mean
a whole mode that is ENTIRELY about your add clearing power
no requirement to spec for bosses at all
zeus and poseidon suddenly become top dogs
bright mulch
I could see it be fun, collesum battles with optional challenges like that are always a blast in games
sacred idol
ares' shenanigans may be viable in that environment, blade rifts could see some use?
limber spire
i just wish there were more ways to focus on a specific build, like depending what weapon and aspect you bring you would love to mess with the odds of finding attack/cast/special boons
lament coral
you kinda already do, forcing a specific god with their keepsake
limber spire
right
lament coral
the only problem is the amount of non-attack/special/cast boons that are offered at the start
I don't want dash or call in Tartarus, I want things that help me deal with enemies and synergize with my aspect
aka attack/special/cast
sacred idol
agreed
lament coral
of course, that may not be necessarily true for all weapons and aspects, like Hestia benefiting immensely from Artemis dash
bright mulch
Opening God Boon and it's Call and 2 Utilities
The only thing worse is checking a trove and it's darkness lol
lament coral
but those are outliers, and they'd still benefit from attack/special/cast boons just as well
sacred idol
add some feedback that Attack/Special should be more common as the first room's boon?
With Dash and Cast as second tier
and all others less
limber spire
it just feels bad when 70% of the things you get are not suited for your weapon pick
sacred idol
'at least one of these'
lament coral
I already did a while back, suggesting that the very first god gift you pick should always offer you a choice of attack/special/cast
limber spire
good one
bright mulch
Eh, the nature of RL's means accepting that some runs are just gonna be low power, Hades, at least at my current Heat level, also doesn't feel too bad about trying to salvage the runs into a win
lament coral
I hate starting a Zag bow run and then not seeing a single attack boon all the way until the end of Elysium
dim rapids
poseidon is pretty good on chiron bow with zeus/poseidon duo
bright mulch
Lol, the first time I tried Hera I turned on No Choice to try it and was denied a Shot till styx
dim rapids
also a decent privileged status trigger if you get rupture
lament coral
I get that Hades is a roguelite and you're supposed to adapt, but adapting to this garbage just means forcing cast builds every run, regardless of the weapon or aspect you're using
which is the opposite of fun
bright mulch
Yeah I feel ya
sacred idol
rofl no choice just sucks
bright mulch
For players to adapt and still have fun there needs to be A LOT of knobs to turn I feel
sacred idol
it's just a really unfun heat choice, period
Especially since it's mean and shows you what you could have had.
bright mulch
So you can at least feel like you're making progress to something viable
lament coral
Customs is already a pain in the ass, but at least it lets you pick 1 out of 3 to sell and you get some cash back
sacred idol
yeah, it just feels like customs but worse, and redundant
lament coral
No choice just craps on your parade before it even began
sacred idol
actually
with Customs existing, No Choice feels unnecessary.
It really just feels like RNG's spiting your run at that point.
bright mulch
From a player psychology prespective I feel it would be way better by just not showing you what you lost
sacred idol
yeah, lul
lament coral
I don't think that'd matter at all
lament coral
whether you see that you missed out on the boon you needed or not, you'll feel it when you get to the boss and deal no damage
sacred idol
when it's not crossing out the heroic boon you would have really wanted
lament coral
and then you just die
so you look at your boons and see that you only had trash
the only thing that'd change is the window of realization that you've been dealt a bad hand
from the moment you picked the boon to when you bite the dust
sacred idol
it'd still feel a little less bad in the moment
bright mulch
It's different because now it's two feel's bad man moments instead of one
First just getting bad rolls sucks
Second getting bad rolls and then actively seeing that you COULD have had the exact thing you wanted if you weren't playing with No Choice then sucks even more
The end result is the same yeah but the psychology is different
turbid needle
Remove No Choice, add a Pact option that rolls one or two of each boon with a different Olympian's.
Pick up a Zeus boon? Normally you get three of his options, but with one level it's two Zeus and one other Olympian. Two levels you get one choice from the actual Olympian, two random other Olympians.
lament coral
that's basically a randomizer, isn't it?
bright mulch
It's like that story of WoW back in Beta, people hated XP fatigue but loved Rested XP bonus, even though math wise it's the exact same XP at the end
The first feels like you're being punished and the second feels like being rewarded even though at the end you have the exact same amount of xp
turbid needle
Kinda?
lament coral
I like that idea, it should go up to 3 levels though
turbid needle
Ideally you have it so that whenever a boon would spawn a Call, Dash, or Special, it still takes the Dash and Special from the other God.
turbid needle
That might be a little much.
turbid needle
This would actually work better as a 2/3 Heat option, unlike current No Choice, which could probably stand to be 5/10.
lament coral
and before you say "but that makes max heat impossible!", it already is
might as well have some fun with it
turbid needle
I know Max Heat is impossible, No Choice is too much of a killer.
turbid needle
...Considering it can butcher any build, yes, it absolutely is.
lament coral
Chaos shield might struggle without Priv Stat
lament coral
don't think I've ever had more than 3 duos myself
sacred idol
now that's galaxy brain rolls
Nice touch on the triple duo boon screen
that's possibly my new favorite boon selection screenshot
Sadly you didn't unpin Trippy Shot to show off the legendary :p
although I guess it is the core of that hilarious confluence of duos, toss one fog bomb and suddenly everything is frozen and electrified and slowed
naive cobalt
I also have a boon that applies an extra burst every 10 stacks of chill
And extra damage when every foe is chilled, which is easy with so much chill AoE
Sadly the Legendary was the last boon I got, so it didn't help me outside of the Hades fight :(
naive cobalt
Demeter's, which insta-kills foes at 10% hp. It works on Hades himself too
sacred idol
Isn't there a boon that grants a damage bonus inside festive fog? Is that Dio legendary?
oh, I love that
naive cobalt
I think Dio's requires a blight boon as well as the festive fog, so it's hard to get
turbid needle
Yes, requires two tier 1 boons.
Used to require a Hangover source and Trippy Shot and a tier 2 Hangover/Festive Fog modifier, and then they buffed Black Out.
naive cobalt
Zagreus rail
sacred idol
holy crap
the best fog build on the worst rail aspect
is this some kinda equivalent exchange shenanigans
naive cobalt
It's better than Hestia :v
sacred idol
you gotta post somewhere else then copypaste
turbid needle
Get an imgur or discord link.
sacred idol
url embed works
naive cobalt
It's a little weird. Idk why it's set up this way
sacred idol
Aspect of 🧀
gloomy vine
chaos shield is probably best shield, but aspect of zeus is too fun not to use
turbid needle
So! Aspect of Hades spawning into Serrated Edge is kinda dumb!
neon stump
Can someone help me understand what the advantage of using the bow is? Not trying to say it's badly balanced, but I'm finding that I'm still outranged by most ranged enemies and missing the DPS that other weapons have
so I figure it's a playstyle thing that hasn't clicked yet
turbid needle
Most ranged enemy projectiles can be easily dodged around, so what the bow is lacking in DPS it's got in barrels of safety. Do keep in mind there are some "melee" enemies who have pretty ridiculous range.
sacred idol
@native ether Curse of Longing would be FAR better served by making it cut its value less steeply.
sacred idol
Refresh rate is tick speed
turbid needle
Am I the only person who only uses Curse of Longing as an extended Privileged Status applicator?
turbid needle
👍
native ether
If i'm going for that I'm just going for poison
turbid needle
Yeah, I don't look for it, just take it if I've got Empty Inside.
native ether
yeah that's fair
turbid needle
But it does that job reeeally well.
sacred idol
Honestly, I just really want it to be viable
turbid needle
Like, kinda scary well.
native ether
Cold Fusion also does that very well
turbid needle
God, I love Cold Fusion.
sacred idol
Something like 80% of the previous stack, or 75%
native ether
but I think Cold Fusion is honestly a little weak. Its a nice effect though, just not my favorite of the duo boons
turbid needle
I just watched Theseus deal 1500 damage to himself last night in my 32 Heat clear firing rockets around the room while I murdered Asterius in the center.
native ether
lmao
turbid needle
It is.
turbid needle
I wholeheartedly believe it's top five.
native ether
that was probably it
turbid needle
Hunting Blades, Merciful End, Cold Fusion, Deadly Reversal, Heart Rend.
native ether
It feels really strong on bosses, just not too great in normal room clears, where enemies already die fast enough.
sacred idol
and even when casually taken, it's a nice supplement that's just always useful if you meet min reqs
eternal stag
i'm still waiting to get my ideal ice wine + scintillating feast + cold fusion build on hera bow
sacred idol
well, it's very much appreciated on armored clusters
turbid needle
With Black Out and Drunken Strike?
sacred idol
that sounds disgusting. I want it.
eternal stag
yes
imagine
the problem is i can't see how to fit artemis in but what would be really fun would be double shot and fully loaded
just hurling ice wines around
turbid needle
Like a Diablo build gone horribly wrongright.
native ether
cold fusion is just one of those boons I never seem to get and when I do get it its when I have like Zeus Aid only
which isnt bad, but its like "eh"
sacred idol
that'd be actually really good
turbid needle
Eeehh.
native ether
like its not bad but Zeus Aid already does so much damage its entirely unnecessary
turbid needle
Zeus Aid hits a bunch for a short period of time.
Cold Fusion you'd want on like, Rupture Tidal Strike Hestia.
eternal stag
see, you gotta get zeus aid and use it as a prereq for scintillating feast or sea storm 
turbid needle
With Sea Storm.
And you shoot a Super Elite Longbow right before he fires his 11 shots.
turbid needle
Possibly Charged Volley with Artemis.
gusty nexus
Chiron is a pretty fun bow to use.
turbid needle
Dionysus is also very good, as is Aphrodite with Charm.
sacred idol
Dio with Low Tolerance :^)
Get 7 stacks in one shot even without the +4 hammer
that's basically chaos shield-style hyper hangover gibbing
earnest delta
thanks friends, i'll try it in my next run
sacred idol
Aphro attack/dio special and try for low tolerance and that boon that buffs status damage
Artemis also sounds REALLY scary when built up
native ether
Still think Low Tolerance is in the top 5 duo boons for me, especially with Eris aspect it just does so much damage
sacred idol
That special critting?
Zepp's suggestion is nice.
Death Defiance not just being ONE god's domain is a good idea
native ether
I really wish Aphrodite and Demeter had a duo, I don't feel as inclined to run them together even though they're both so helpful, because there's no duo for doing that together
sacred idol
agreed
native ether
There's duos for Dionysus but Demeter's is cast specific
sacred idol
Tsundere
eternal stag
i wish all olympians had a duo
sacred idol
ayy I'd like that
eternal stag
imagine a dio/athena or an athena/demeter
sacred idol
Okay, but Aphrodite/Demeter would literally be a tsundere boon.
eternal stag
those are my mvps
sacred idol
hot and cold love
It's not like I like you or anything!
wait, no, technically it's kuudere...
native ether
"deal less damage in the first half of the game, deal more damage in the second half of the game"
turbid needle
Thank you, Felis.
turbid needle
Oh, and Pear? I kinda have to eat my words, I'm using Hades Aspect Serrated Edge and I think I'm about to dunk my dad.
Casual 900 damage Dash attacks.
eternal stag
i love serrated edge so much
serrated edge and cursed slash are my favorite hammers right now
turbid needle
Eeeww, Cursed Slash?
thorny edge
apparently at one point SG said they wanted to do that, dont know if its still true
turbid needle
SG?
thorny edge
hope it happens though
turbid needle
oh super giant
thorny edge
supergiant
torpid abyss
SupeeGiant
turbid needle
my b : P
native ether
Serrated Edge is god tier
eternal stag
depends. like ares/artemis duo focuses around hunting blades, athena/ares around doom, etc
turbid needle
Favourite first keepsake for Chaos shield?
eternal stag
they can be specialized enough that it's not an instant 'this is viable now'
torpid abyss
Yeah, but ares artemis is deceptively good
turbid needle
"deceptively"
torpid abyss
Since blades can crit with pressure points
turbid needle
Best Cast in the game with the Cast buff Olympian.
I play on heat 14 atm
So money is reduced by 80%
I'd take that off, honestly.
torpid abyss
I'm really curious what does SG have planned for the post final boss content
naive tusk
New weapon, final olympian, epilogue...
torpid abyss
Will it be a RoR like loop back into a different boss?
turbid needle
I think Demeter is the final Olympian.
naive tusk
I think they said there’s one more in their Q&A
torpid abyss
Helios? Maybe?
thorny edge
there's going to be one more character before 1.0
eternal stag
i just like money tbh
thorny edge
i said olympian but a dev actually pointed out greg saidd character and not olympian
torpid abyss
Oh?
naive tusk
Ah yes
turbid needle
I am almost certain it will be a full appearance by ||Persephone||.
thorny edge
torpid abyss
That means the three witches aren't getting in!?
lament coral
which is worse than nothing
turbid needle
That's tough! what's the benefit to those rooms than?
Nah, red onions are an excellent foodstuffs.
lament coral
except for Codex completing purposes, that is
turbid needle
Rarer boons, level 2 Poms, 200 Obols, or 50 HP hearts.
lament coral
@turbid needle always upgraded rewards
turbid needle
aaaaah
That makes sense
Thanks guys I didnt know that
Do you guys always pick them or skip them?
Almost always skip.
lament coral
depends on many factors
thorny edge
So there's going to be a new character, new major weapon, the hidden aspects for sword shield bow and rail, the remaining hearts on a bunch of characters, andd the ending
turbid needle
True.
lament coral
I usually don't take Erebus if I play Nemesis sword tho
torpid abyss
Hades Final Boss: Percy Jackson from the Percy Jackson series
eternal stag
i play too sloppy for erebus tbh
turbid needle
Asphodel is a little scarier, and I've seen multiple Super Elites spawn in Elysian Erebus rooms.
eternal stag
i like to be reckless
turbid needle
I tried specializing in Than keepsake + shield of chaos
lament coral
Than is really lackluster
torpid abyss
I wish butterfly was better
turbid needle
So maybe it would benefit me?
torpid abyss
It's a really fun concept
thorny edge
butterfly got nerfed a while back i think
lament coral
he does more damage than Meg but that damage is usually blocked by armor/blue shields anyway
torpid abyss
But Hermes is the same concept with better results
lament coral
plus, Meg covers a larger area
turbid needle
We're talking basic Keepsakes, not Companions.
lament coral
oh, my bad
lament coral
then yes, taking Erebus with the butterfly is a no brainer
there are usually fewer enemies in Erebus and they're better spaced out, at least in Tartarus
starting with Asphodel though, you could find flame chariots down there
and grey enemies
torpid abyss
Elysium triggers me
turbid needle
I had a exploding chariot in the first room (that spawned the flame room)
jagged canopy
Whats a good special for Guan spear?
naive tusk
I’d say Ares’
turbid needle
Ares, Artemis, Aphrodite, Athena, Demeter.
lament coral
Aphrodite is the only answer
highest damage
Demeter is a solid alternative if you want a long status, plus chill keeps enemies in place longer, making it easier for the spin to him em
thorny edge
http://prntscr.com/qymv4c aphro attack ares special was fun on GY
minor solstice
Hi Supergiants. can i suggest one think for gameplay? Because Hades is based on greek mythology you should put greek audio or at least greek texts for us the Greeks 🙂
naive tusk
You should put it on #hades-feedback
main citrus
Hey mate! You should post that in the #hades-feedback channel :D
minor solstice
oh ok thanks and sorry 🙂
main citrus
And I agree, it would be really nice to see the game in Greek :p
turbid needle
Oh, and to be able to post in that channel, give yourself the role in #bot-commands
naive tusk
Greek language is so hot ❤️
main citrus
Yup! Get the Early Access role to post there :D
turbid needle
the early access role that is
minor solstice
i read at the hades-feedback the pinned message that says at feedback only what has to do with bugs thats why i post it here
- This channel is for feedback only. If you’ve encountered a bug, report it in-game with F10.
- This channel is not for discussion. Please discuss feedback in #h1-builds-and-combat. so i should post it at feedback?
dense star
So that's how you get to put feedback in the feedback channel, good to note
crisp iris
Also, I had a thought
What if all the casts brought its own gameplay identity to be separate
Namely, I think Poseidon, Athena and Zeus casts lack proper identity
Becaus to me all 3 kind of feel same-y?
Like, what if Poseidon cast created a AOE wave that pushes enemy around/in a hlf moon shape/cone
And what if Athena cast essentially creates deflecting shield, or even something that is reminiscent of Shield of Chaos, but on a cast
Overall I think those three casts are underwhelming, and not very unique to play with
wild ibex
what is this "mute hermes for a while?" option?
does it effect anything?
mute hermes next time (he wont mind)
abstract pilot
i think it makes him not talk to you before giving you a boon
finite tulip
Ye, decided to keep it on because his voice is nice
abstract pilot
hermes seems to be the only character who notices if you skip their text
finite tulip
really? Interesting
abstract pilot
there is that (which i think only appears if you skip his text a lot), and also when you cut off his text, he makes this little annoyed sound
lament coral
yeah, yeah
@crisp iris I feel that Poseidon cast is fine as it, it's a wide wave that pushes enemies
agree on Athena though, that deflect-o-ball is not very interesting or useful
crisp iris
Athena cast could also function as "shield bash". Similar in range with Aphro Cast, with half moon in front of Zag which deals dmg, deflects, and knocks back enemies.
I think it would be cool to have defense focused casts in game, for the similar reason short ranged Aphro casts changes up the gameplay significantly
turbid needle
I thought it was at 7:22.
fallow niche
sorry, sub-7
turbid needle
Oh.
turbid needle
What was the build?
mild crag
fallow niche
its the fastest atm nothing is even close
mild crag
It's super broken lol
fallow niche
specifically its because you can get the cast + dual shot + artemis legendary by like chamber 4/5
lol
mild crag
So broken weapon plus god seed
fallow niche
its not broken but yeah its a god seed
mild crag
+50% is pretty broken 
turbid needle
It's less than Achilles's and Eris's bonus.
mild crag
Yes but +50% and the dislodge
turbid needle
It's the fact that it's always applied + Knockout.
50% helps.
If it were 10% I think there would be other WRs.
fallow niche
its the fact that the build can very quickly kill enemies at long range in asphodel and elysium and it deletes bosses
the damage % obviously helps but you would have to completely gut the weapon to make it no longer the best speedrunning weapon
turbid needle
Think we're also discounting how important Flurry Cast is to this scenario.
fallow niche
they should be balancing for normal player experience not whats most optimal to speedrunners
turbid needle
Agreed.
fallow niche
@turbid needle most of the 8-10 minute runs were without it
however tihs sub-7 minute got it really early as an epic
so yeah
mild crag
But being able to clear it so quickly and easily is too strong right?
dire mason
Who got sub-7?
fallow niche
except no normal player plays on the same god seed all day
@dire mason @scenic fern did
an absolute monster
dudes a machine
dire mason
Thank you for the link! I was on youtube searching like 
fallow niche
np
I'm in awe of this guy
also the RNG here, even with manipulation, is really good
unkempt pagoda
what's it real time?
mild crag
Uh oh he's for it now
unkempt pagoda
still this is literally 👀
mild crag
RT doesn't really matter
fallow niche
16 minutes @unkempt pagoda
and yeah the WR is decided by in-game time
tradition of most speedrun communities if the game offers it since the OG doom
mild crag
Unless how long they loiter in npc Chambers or talk to people for matters
fallow niche
not at all, afaik no such advantage or bug exists about that
mild crag
There is in npc Chambers
Manipulation is a time loss
But you can do it for free there
fallow niche
its not 'free' since your real time is recorded and put on the site
lament coral
don't you only do that in Tartarus?
mild crag
Usually
fallow niche
hes talking about rerolling I think
you can't manip past tartarus unless you're Holiday 
mild crag
There's that and manipulation they both count
karmic ginkgo
mild crag
Holiday big brain 
fallow niche
many years from now we may just get a 100% manipulated run at like 4 minutes or some nonsense
yeah holiday's brain is way too big for me
wild ibex
yay I won again with a terrible build.zero legendaries and zero duos
took me 45 mins though
bright mulch
👍
thorny oriole
I think I found my new favourite build
https://i.imgur.com/z3b9W5V.png
turbid needle
Looks like Hera.
kind cloud
lmao, Luis wiped out the Hydra in less than 2 seconds.
correction: he actually did it in less than a full IGT second
lulz
left timber
shield with the piercing shot and power shot is dumb
kind cloud
dumb as in "it breaks the game" dumb or "it doesn't make sense" plain dumb?
fallow niche
he means the latter
left timber
And also I didn't need to move to beat the final boss
kind cloud
btw, because luis pires destroyed the hydra in 1 second, no time comes off IGT against the smaller heads, good to know
left timber
but I guess that's just a shield thing
fallow niche
@kind cloud Yup, that's the point of the hydra skip
kind cloud
cool, cool. i'm just now learning this stuff.
fallow niche
its mostly used for speedrunning and isn't easy for newer players to pull off
its hard to do unless you have extreme measures 2 on too
pallid dagger
tfw pressure points triples your poseidon call damage
jagged canopy
https://prnt.sc/qypa58 first hades spear run
mild crag
i played before they added the proper spear dash attack
it was life changing seeing that
it's so great
kind cloud
i don't understand the hades aspect of the spear @jagged canopy, it looks the same as the normal attack to me...what's different?
stiff aspen
it is the same, however it marks enemies afterwards which causes them to take more damage from attacks and casts.
lament coral
yes, and it lasts for 10 seconds
thorny edge
the same mark graphic shows up with chiron bow
that one shows what enemy your special will home in on
mild crag
It's attack and special damage tho right not casts
naive tusk
Got Zeus’s Aid. Entered a Trial of the Gods chamber featuring Zeus and Athena. Naturally, I pick Athena 1st. Zeus gets angry. God meter fills a bit. I use it, then watch how Zagreus goes “wtf” 😂
steady horizon
hybrid frost
@stiff stone Sisyphus's keepsake already does increase damage from Traps to enemies.
(refering to your feedback)
jagged canopy
https://prnt.sc/qypkk9 pretty good guan special run
lament coral
@fallow niche technically, Hades is an attack aspect
it's just that it requires to spin, which sucks
turbid needle
But it doesn't gel with Flurry Jab.
fallow niche
yeah that's the problem honestly
it just doesn't gel with build that take advantage of spear's natural fast attacking nature
lament coral
well, that applies to all spear aspects
lament coral
just say it, spin sucks
turbid needle
No.
fallow niche
Well, non-Guan Yu spins suck
turbid needle
It doesn't.
lament coral
GY's spin might as well not be considered a spin
lament coral
it has mad scaling and does mad damage
fallow niche
Good
mellow quest
i have been very unimpressed by the spear spins in general
lament coral
but it's not immune to the spin disease
fallow niche
Yes it is
mellow quest
they are too slow/short ranged/not damaging enough
lament coral
without the spin hammer it, too, suffers
turbid needle
Quick Spin makes the spin attack usable on every spear.
lament coral
is it? with 40% Overtime?
mellow quest
with 40% overtime it's not even a consideration to spin
fallow niche
Besides make it so that my goddamn charge abilities dont get cancelled from being hit
lament coral
I found myself struggling to get the spin off and yes, I was dodge cancelling
mellow quest
it's not even fast enough to catch spawns
lament coral
you can spin if you have the quick spin hammer
fallow niche
Like this is an issue on every aspect if I'm going to be real
Being hit shouldn't cancel your anims
This is why sword suffers
lament coral
no
fallow niche
This is why sword special builds are completely useless too
lament coral
you're telling me enemy attacks can interrupt sword special?
fallow niche
Yes
turbid needle
Yes.
mellow quest
they do
lament coral
wtf
fallow niche
Its AWFUL
jagged canopy
yup
lament coral
but it doesn't even charge, it just has a long animation
mellow quest
your cast can be interrupted as well which can be problematic during overtime
fallow niche
Yup, enemy attacks cancel anims in general I think
turbid needle
Yeah.
mellow quest
but at least a cast has range
fallow niche
its legit cancer
turbid needle
Just gotta Special right before Dashing. 
fallow niche
Its the sole reason why spin builds outside of Guan Yu are frustrating to play
Its why sword suffers
Its why I don't like so many builds in this game
When I can just ignore all of that with more quick attacking builds
Or use shield
and block
mellow quest
the game definitely encourages faster builds and multi attacks
especially on high heat
fallow niche
Definitely
mellow quest
slow builds don't hit hard enough and get stunned out of anything charged based on Overtime
fallow niche
The only exception is Guan Yu because you can abuse the giant ring of the spin
To zone enemies
mellow quest
and then it's debatable if they even compete with the DPS of a fast build on paper
lament coral
you know what
turbid needle
Hestia seems to be the exception to the multi-hit rule.
mellow quest
which one is that
fallow niche
150 first shot rail
lament coral
just remove the spin, remove spin hammers, increase GY's spin speed as if it had built-in hammer
mellow quest
ah, yeah. that is very strong
lament coral
there, problem solved
fallow niche
No just remove the stunning from being hit
That's all we need
Suddenly GY and other spins are so much less punishing if you lack the hammers
lament coral
you're not gonna use the spin with Zag, Achilles, or Hades
you won't be the spin hammers for em
fallow niche
I mean with Hades I might if I ever use it (which I won't 😉 )
mellow quest
you can use it on low heat to catch spawns
but it just isn't fast enough for most normal play
turbid needle
Forge, go for Hades, Serrated Edge, Deadly Strike.
mellow quest
sidenote, am I the only one that hangs around the Patroclus room in Elysium just to hear the soundtrack when not being timed
fallow niche
I did that at first too yeah
its good
And the timer stops when you're in there btw @mellow quest
mellow quest
oh, didn't notice that
cool
i also hang around the House when the boi decides to sing
lament coral
I wish SGG uploaded all of the voiced songs on their YT/BC already
mild crag
Hestia is strong like multi hit weapons, but it bends over to Damage Control which hurts it a bit
mellow quest
i still think Damage Control should just be a third health bar of sorts
mild crag
yeah idk why damage control is the way it is
mellow quest
with a final modifier that makes it regen if left alone for like 4-5 seconds
lament coral
you guys want another layer of armor
lament coral
as opposed to being removable with 1-2 hits
mild crag
it just makes rapid hit weapons stronger even
fallow niche
hestia is actually really good on 32 heat
mild crag
i dont think more armor is a good idea
just expressing discontent
for hestia being not good into it
mellow quest
heavy hitting slow builds are just not very good, between Damage Control crapping on them and health gating + being staggered out of animations
lament coral
the problem with blue shields is that Calisthenics exists, but for some reason it caps at 30%
mild crag
no they dont but its just that every quick hitting build is as good as slow hitting builds
theres not an additional incentive to play big hit slow builds
mild crag
no i what i mean is
quick hitting is good at everything slow is
but not the opposite
lament coral
he means slow builds are disproportionally punished by blue shields
fallow niche
I think you're generalizing too much anyway
lament coral
because they can't remove em in an efficient manner
mild crag
generalising in what way
fallow niche
and the point of the pact is that you can choose what mods you get
hestia can just not choose blue shields
thats the point
mild crag
and my point is fast hitting weapons can pick anything
lament coral
^
fallow niche
not really, it depends on aspect
mellow quest
some people enjoy max or close to max heat and would also enjoy if you still had variety to play with
lament coral
no, really
literally nothing in the pact prevents me from playing Zeus attack Zagreus rail
jagged canopy
There should be a 4th extreme measures for Hades
lament coral
consider it a soft Budget Cuts
but one that affects your weapons
instead of the mirror
fallow niche
No Choice is garbage
mellow quest
budget cuts you at least are still choosing what you put points into
fallow niche
and comparing the shields to no choice or budget cuts is bizarre
at this point you're just rambling
lament coral
you can use Poseidon sword with blue shields, you just have to remove the shields first
mellow quest
No Choice turns off a huge part of the decision making that makes the game fun
mild crag
No Choice is garbage for sure
lament coral
but at that point, you might as well just use Nemesis
since you're already in melee range
fallow niche
rare salmon
I just had one of my best runs ever... finished with 4 Death Defiance at 254 health...
lament coral
remove as in knock them off, not turn off the pact
naive tusk
Yay
rare salmon
I don't know why I share that other than that no one else I know will care 😛
fallow niche
Nice, got the last one from Chaos? @rare salmon
rare salmon
@fallow niche Yessir!
pallid dagger
I did it! I finally got every aspect of every weapon (so far) fully upgraded
fallow niche
Sick that boon is really rare
naive tusk
@hoary canyon I care! Congratz!
rare salmon
Haha
mellow quest
i do appreciate that Convenience Fee does not affect the prices of the meta upgrades at the last store (diamond, titan blood, etc)
mild crag
pretty sure it doesnt affect any meta, so darkness in normal stores too
not that anybody with convenience fee on would be buying darkness
nevertheless
naive tusk
I saw that darkness was more expensive in Charon’s shop though
Just had a run with it
mellow quest
darkness is more expensive
mild crag
really
naive tusk
and I did buy it
mild crag
i thought it was all meta currencies
rare salmon
Primarily I had Athena on Attack and Zeus on Special with Chaos Aspect shield. Got Poseidon on Dash, and the Zeus / Poseidon Duo, plus Poseidon's God Damage boon. Then I grabbed Artemis' Call and her Crit on everything so that I could get the Artemis/Athena Duo for my Attack. Got Zeus' Jolted, Poseidon's Rupture, and Athena's Exposed. Then, at the end, just for no reason, I picked up Athena's Cast, the Athena/Zeus Duo, and the Artemis/Zeus duo. Honestly don't think they were important at all, but finished with 4 duos 😛
Can you get 5?
No one's Legendary though.
mellow quest
im still trying to get the last two duos for the prophecy
rare salmon
Oh, I should figure out which of those I need.
tidal thorn
What do y'all think of the bow?
mellow quest
ultralaser duo from demeter/artemis
mellow quest
bow is basically either too slow and sputters at Elysium/Styx
rare salmon
@tidal thorn The Hero Aspect Bow is one of my favorite weapons 🙂
mellow quest
or just annihilates the run
pallid dagger
Basic bow is terrible. Chiron bow is good with the right work put into it. Hera bow is gloriously op and actually makes me seek cast builds.
mellow quest
the basic bow is very uninteresting though compared to the Chiron and Hera aspects
rare salmon
I haven't tried the Chiron Bow yet... @pallid dagger are there other good builds aside from Dionysus Cast on the Hero Bow? That's honestly all I want to do 😛
tidal thorn
D: I maxed the basic bow. I want Hera but really need blood for other stuff.
rare salmon
It used to just be Poseidon / Zeus Zagreus Spear. Then I discovered Dionysus Cast Hero Bow.
pallid dagger
I know that I've had good luck with Aphro, Dio, Artemis, and Poseidon casts on the Hera bow. Ares, Demeter, and Athena don't play well, though.
rare salmon
I used to love it. It's still fun, but not as OP as it used to be... Poseidon Special with the Zeus Duo and the bouncing Hammer upgrade make the Zagreus Spear pretty OP.
mellow quest
the shield and bow zag aspects are the worst offenders
pallid dagger
true
mellow quest
while the sword aspect is like.. okay, these aren't really relevant to the sword playstyle
rare salmon
Awesome - I'll try those, Grim
pallid dagger
Among the Zagreus Aspects, the spear is passable, and the gun is excellent. I'll be trying out the Eris aspect for the first time next gun run.
rare salmon
How high does God Mode get? Can you level it all the way up and play with Zag Aspect Shield and just take no damage? 😛
lament coral
80%
mellow quest
the zag rail aspect is a little redundant because there are multiple upgrades that make ammo a lot larger in capacity or infinite
rare salmon
I've only tried unupgraded gun and Eris Aspect.
lament coral
worth noting, however, that if you get to 80% using God Mode, damage resistance boons/aspects become worthless
rare salmon
The infinite one is bad now though @mellow quest 😦
lament coral
because 80% is the overall DR cap
tidal thorn
Eris is fun but still kinda eh.
tidal thorn
I like straight damage too much. lol
rare salmon
I've only run the Eris aspect once, and I got the hammer upgrade that makes your special shoot a spread of 5 - it was honestly glorious.
mellow quest
what's not to like about adding 5 base damage to your attack and then a billion to everything else for 8 seconds
eris aspect is very strong
tidal thorn
@rare salmon One of my favorite runs was with Eris aspect the triple bomb. Not a fan of cluster.
mild crag
its definitely noticeable
mellow quest
12% is not much but the jump from 12 to 24% is very large in comparison because of rounding
and beyond that is just gravy
jagged canopy
Maybe some better visual indicator would be cool
tidal thorn
Triple bomb is one of my favorite Daed Hammers in the game tbh
turbid needle
Nah.
tidal thorn
:( k
mellow quest
If you have the boon that makes all your future boons at least Epic rarity, does Yarn do anything?
tidal thorn
What is tho? Sometimes I don't even take a call and I know that's not great.
mellow quest
like will you be offered heroic boons
turbid needle
You can not be offered Heroic boons outright.
mild crag
Zeus is highest dps call
naive tusk
Athena’s Aid best call 
mellow quest
alright so the yarn just doesn't do anything in that situation
mild crag
Ares or Athena are the other two good ones for survival
rare salmon
Ok, I need Merciful End, the Ares/Athena Duo, for the prophecy. Which weapon is that good with?
Your Deflect attacks activate Doom.
naive tusk
I was kidding. Is Athena’s Aid that good? I’ve never taken it
tidal thorn
Shield with Athena attack.
rare salmon
Thanks!
wild ibex
is the best call zeus?
tidal thorn
That's what I'd do at least.
wild ibex
I had poseidon last game it was pretty meh
naive tusk
I will rake it next time and see if I like it 
tidal thorn
I really like Pos Aid.
mellow quest
Poseidon aid is also good but not against single targets
rare salmon
I also need Demeter / Dionysus, but I'll probably just try to get Dio cast on Hero Bow? 🙂
mellow quest
it's better for timing like, using it to clear Hades summons
rare salmon
And I need Demeter / Artemis, which I imagine can just go anywhere.
wild ibex
oh I see
I am not good at using calls like that
I just let it fill then use it for some reason 😄
wild ibex
I use it like every run but I am only heat10
mellow quest
i think Artemis and Aphrodite calls are the weakest
naive tusk
I always try to fill it fully during boss fights for the quotes 
wild ibex
I generally dont take them before act4
tidal thorn
I am not that far. Lol
mellow quest
and they are still pretty decent
wild ibex
then you can use it like that in boss fights.Some of the calls deal a lot of damage
yeah artemis one is just one arrow lol
mellow quest
Dio call is almost pointless to full charge
wild ibex
what does aphrodite do?
wild ibex
oh sounds terrible
mellow quest
but still only a single target
rare salmon
What's the best Rail build? I only have Eris aspect maxed
wild ibex
I think ares and zeus are the most satisfying ones for me
mellow quest
rocket shotgun build was very fun
tidal thorn
That rocket upgrade is p good.
mellow quest
so anyways I just started blastin
rare salmon
That replaces special?
mellow quest
yes
tidal thorn
Yeah
mellow quest
but the 100 base damage makes it scale way better with a special boon
rare salmon
Doesn't it make it harder to get caught in the blast?
mellow quest
it's also waaayyy faster
terse blade
if you stand close enough its fine
I find it easier to get in the blast as you don't need to wait for it to come back down
tidal thorn
You can shoot it into a wall too
rare salmon
Oh, ok
mellow quest
on the other aspect that makes the first shot deal a bunch more damage on manual reload I really like the 200% damage huge radius upgrade
you can hit pretty much everything in a room including yourself
:)
tidal thorn
Ugh, is Havok Bomb actually good somehow? I took it once. Once.
mellow quest
i had doom on it
and just caught every spawn
that was with 20% overtime
it was awkward in Styx though
rare salmon
Does the manual reload make the rocket do more damage?
mellow quest
no
turbid needle
You mean Hazard Bomb?
rare salmon
Ok 🙂
tidal thorn
Yes.
mellow quest
but yeah I liked the sword at first but it just doesn't keep up with heat it feels like
mellow quest
and the hammer upgrades for the nova don't fix the issue of it being slow
and being staggered out of it
turbid needle
Yeah, it needs a little survivability work, but it's got incredible DPS.
Best in the game with Poseidon Aspect, really.
turbid needle
And yet it is used instead of Achilles or Eris which both provide better damage bonuses.
mellow quest
i mean it's the sole reason exit wounds got nerfed
turbid needle
My point is that the sword is more than capable even absent Aspect of Poseidon.
mellow quest
it's a slow attack with a small AoE and only 50 base damage
pallid dagger
man, going from the shield to the bow in any situation is a serious muscle memory nightmare
mellow quest
and not much knockback
pallid dagger
i keep thinking that i just have to hold the attack button and i'll be fine when that inferno bomb its me
no, i won't, @ myself move you idiot
turbid needle
Okay, okay. You show me your best clear with another weapon, and if it beats my 15:30 20 Heat Nemesis clear, I'll stop saying the sword is fine.
tidal thorn
I like the sword but I think it's the harder weapon to use sometimes.
turbid needle
It totally is hard to use as you climb in Heat.
tidal thorn
Then again, I'm new.
turbid needle
But "difficult" does not equal "bad".
tidal thorn
Oh no way.
mild crag
@pallid dagger just shoot the bomb out of the sky with your bow 
turbid needle
That only works with Divine Strike.
mild crag
i know is a joke
related: i have a problem where i always forget that some of those bomb guys drop bombs on death
and collect them like coins in a mario game
turbid needle
I don't like that I have trouble differentiating between Burn Flingers and Inferno Bombers.
mild crag
they're pretty samey yeah
hopefully we'll get some model updates
same with the hydra heads
turbid needle
'Cause I think Inferno Bombers are the ones that drop bombs on death.
mild crag
im pretty sure they both do
turbid needle
Hydra model updates would be pure 👌
mild crag
and only slam dancers don't
turbid needle
Oh, no clowns?
dense star
Sounds like the solution is to buff slam dancers
pallid dagger
Inferno Bombers are the yellow ones that panic and drop 3 at once and make you take 50 damage in one go, the jerks.
Burn-Flingers are the green ones that have wicked curve ball aim.
dense star
Have 'em drop a bomb on death
turbid needle
"Fleeee, flee for your lives!"
oblique tusk
wow i just tried hazard bomb for the first time
mild crag
inferno bombers are all like
oblique tusk
having avoided it constantly
mild crag
"Ahhh a spider god!"
oblique tusk
hazard bomb is god-awful
dense star
How can I kill a god drops 3 bombs and runs
pallid dagger
...?
turbid needle
I don't think Hazard is a terrible pick for Hestia.
mild crag
i know inferno bombers drop and i know slam dancers dont
burn flingers are lke i think they do but cannot confirm
pallid dagger
hazard bomb does a straight 300% damage in a huge radius. it only damages you for 3 health. even assuming you have eris on, that's dirt cheap.
turbid needle
The damage stuns you, which is the worst part.
mild crag
its funny it has both positive and negative synergy with Eris
turbid needle
Drops it on you for easy boosts?
mild crag
i mean eris boosts the damage further
oblique tusk
it takes longer to land, it stuns you, it does 4 base damage
turbid needle
I meant specifically to get the Eris boost.
oblique tusk
and you want to be using bombs constantly with eris so you get the boost
mild crag
its bad for getting the buff since if you want to reliably get it and not get slapped while you're waiting for it to fall you need to lead yourself
pallid dagger
true
mild crag
assuming you're a dodge god
because if you i-frame through the self damage you still get the buff
pallid dagger
Had Artemis Flourish on when i tried it.
the results were hysterical.
mild crag
it hits big hard
i'd probably be too good without the self damage
but i think not being able to aim it is a pretty big downside already
if it didnt have self damage i would probably pick it every time
pallid dagger
i'm trying to think of a bad hammer upgrade for the railgun and i can't
dense star
I wasn't fond of delta chamber or cluster bomb (though that was like day 1 of those being added)
turbid needle
Delta's bad.
pallid dagger
oh. oh right.
dense star
But overall I do think the rail's hammer upgrades seem solid
pallid dagger
i haven't tried it. i used to use infinity chamber, but i dropped it once i decided flurry fire way outclassed it.
dense star
^ like with infinity chamber
pallid dagger
now, the sword could use some work.
mild crag
yeah delta chamber is a dps loss
pallid dagger
someone mentioned in feedback way back when that a charge upgrade for the sword would be cool. brilliant idea.
mild crag
reminds me of a game i played where you could mash to do a melee combo but there was like
perfect timings you could do for increased damage
something like that might be neat
pallid dagger
we already have those tho
the "perfect shot" stuff. i for one, never, ever use them.
mild crag
yeah like powershot but every hit on the sword
i think it would be interesting
but i wouldnt use it since i suck at powershots already
but could be interesting
pallid dagger
hmmmm.
pallid dagger
i do like World Splitter
really hands a big boost to damage and plays well with boons
can't think of anything else though.
turbid needle
World Splitter is very fun but scales poorly with Heat.
pallid dagger
it's all underpowered, double edged, or very, very situational
mild crag
yeah its all lame
would like that every weapon could be like
as good as rail
with its hammers
hazard bomb is the only one i sort of feel bad taking
pallid dagger
the rail is just a genius weapon. it's not a safe, always-good one like the shield, but it responds so well to any upgrade that it's just constantly rewarding.
mild crag
but thats only because i play veri high heat and health is a premium
pallid dagger
can't relate
mild crag
been playing with 100% consequences
pallid dagger
oof
mild crag
getting pinged by numbskulls never felt so bad
pallid dagger
i can relate to that
numbskulls used to make my brain melt when they ruined my pierced butterfly runs
mild crag
sometimes i just give up when they hit me
or i dash into a witch projectile
oh
does anybody feel like sometimes
enemies just lead you with attacks?
like that make an attack that has no chance in hades of connecting
then you dash into their attack
pallid dagger
do not call me out like this.
mild crag
cause they fired off at like 45 degrees
dense star
Now that I think of it, what if they replace blade slash with an attack replacement upgrade: Boomerang Blade. Sword's thrown forward, attack pierces enemies, and returns to user. Tweak the damage & projectile speed as you see fit, of course (since I don't really know the projectile speed mechanics)
mild crag
im callin myself out simultaneously
pallid dagger
that sounds a bit similar to the skewer on the spear.
naive tusk
How does Flurry Cast affect Demeter’s Cast?
turbid needle
You set them more quickly.