she didn't offer support fire yet
#h1-builds-and-combat
green sable
chrome geyser
I got a controller today and got to test playing Hades on controller vs mouse&keyboard
one thing I can't do on the controller is dash one direction while attacking another
unless i haven't figured out how to yet, but this makes mouse and keyboard superior in my opinion
chrome geyser
I'm going to give it some more time to get used to definitely
bold salmon
No. Just added lightning
mossy mirage
anything specific i should be trying to build with the shield? special damage?
wild ibex
when should I use the alter
bold salmon
Depends on the shield and idk alter
turbid needle
What hammers gel with Hera?
plain pewter
do y'all consistently find 2 hammers in each run? is that supposed to happen or is it supposed to be less common?
green sable
i always find 2 but thats all you get each run
thorny edge
one is supposed to show up in tartarus or asphodel and one in elysium or styx (9 out of 10 times elysium for me)
bold salmon
Is there ever a time to take greater Haste over Reflex?
turbid needle
Usually not.
mossy mirage
tried a run focusing on shield special damage and it was doing no damage at all and i feel like if i have to melee then sword is just better? I don't know
bold salmon
Which shield?
mossy mirage
just the base one
bold salmon
Yea thats why
mossy mirage
i can't beat the minotaur and the other guy to really progress enough to get blood to unlock any of the upgraded weapons
bold salmon
Special isnt really focused unless zeus or chaos and chaos is just for applying stuff imo
mossy mirage
I'm going to go back to trying the sword more
bold salmon
Focus on bull rush with shield
and remember it blocks things
so you can literally sit there with the bull rush charge and not take damage.
mossy mirage
i have trouble working that into whatever i'm doing so I almost never use it, probably another good reason to work on using a different weapon i guess
bold salmon
Should probably work it in then. 😅
spice turret
https://imgur.com/5kRr1Eo
I never missed a plume-up
Like... Still had half the time remaining for it on the final bossfight kind of speed.
technically, I got 34.8%, but it doesn't show that, since it ticks after you close this screen
smoky oasis
why clear low heat over again? Isn't it boring?
lament coral
for fun, for darkness, to progress the story
pallid dagger
yo @ to whom it may concern
i saw something in the feedback channel about the charged skewer and patching it so it doesn't take a full charge to throw a respectable distance
seems that's been implemented
fallow niche
oh god my run died
picked up a boon right next to a fishing spot
now zag is stuck
fishing without a rod and I cannot get out of this
RIP gonna have to end this run
turbid needle
Says Give Up in the menu?
lament coral
just alt f4
naive tusk
Shouldn’t it say Quit after picking up the reward?
plush pond
is it normal for an unmodified railgun to shoot twice for each mouse click? Im wondering if its the game or if my mouse is being weird
naive tusk
I couldn’t say but the fire rate is fast so probably
spice turret
Well, what I can say is that with a sufficiently fast hermes boon, your casts can double-fire.
So... Probably?
Or, I feel like I've seen it happen when I dash, like the dash attack chains into the normal attack
plush pond
hmm, that makes sense
i can get it to single fire but the click feels crazy short
maybe Im just a long clicker
pallid dagger
Just had a very tiny room decide to do the staggered pack of flamewheels during a thanatos challenge. I gave up.
odd quarry
Don’t the self-destructs count towards Zag’s total though?
I got a Than challenge once in a room like that and I won by such a huge margin that it felt like there wasn’t any dispute over whether it did or not, but I could be wrong
odd quarry
That was basically my understanding as well
fallow niche
Self destructs don't count iirc
odd quarry
So if you got trap kills too, they count?
fallow niche
Trap kills seem to not count actually maybe what I'm thinking of
I know for a fact one of them doesn't
I lost once vs than thanks to that
I specifically remember my kills not going up when they should
gloomy vine
Trap kills and self destructs count as a Zag kill. Anyone saying otherwise is misinformed.
fallow niche
Unless this was changed recently, no, one of them definitely isn't
rotund wagon
Than do notice when you killsteal him but he does give Zag a pass when enemies just bullrush Zag or stand in lava for no reason
odd quarry
Than is also actually immortal, so it’s probably fair.
mild crag
Trap kills only count if you've dealt damage in the last 5 seconds as I understand it
If you're running around doing nothing traps won't credit kills to you
bold salmon
Im realizing that Athena on the Rails basic attack deflects physical attacks also pretty well. Ive deflected 2 theseus spins by just attacking him.
sacred idol
@spice turret How do you know the time for the Plume? Where's the timer?
spice turret
There's a little timer in the bottom left
pallid dagger
dude just took all three of my death defiances
spice turret
Like, a little circle
shrewd topaz
Icon over the item
pallid dagger
i'm sick of trying to force this weapon to work. supergiant are really stubborn about this one.
bold salmon
So the 2 things that helped me were to stop trying to force spin and use special more, and getting it to level 5 helps a lot. @pallid dagger
bold salmon
Ok then. Sorry for mentioning something lul
sacred idol
Oh, lmao. I just never noticed it.
Also, wait, what? Quick spinning Asterius behind a pillar is easy...
If you don't have quick spin it's pretty bad, I guess
pallid dagger
my special is under charged skewer and two boons boosting offense.
I know they nerfed the guan yu spear, but what they nerfed was the health deduction.
sacred idol
@stiff stone Uh, the bow literally has a power shot, I'm not sure what you're referring to
afaik only the sword has no charged attack
pallid dagger
that was never the problem, the problem was that you can't use the critical aspect of it. that blasted spin, slow and stand-still as it is, recovering 1 health per hit, is absolutely not viable. especially not with a universal deduction on health, and health upgrades.
sacred idol
??? feels fine to me, the only time it really sucks is if you've budget cut all your bonus health away
pallid dagger
nope.
sacred idol
or you're an idiot like me who tries to spin louts
or you're on Hades
25 health is pretty non-viable, that's true
not without ungodly amounts of hearts
spice turret
I mean, what's your heat build?
sacred idol
but Asterius? Kite behind a pillar...
mellow quest
casual 7 minute fight with asterius/thesus ticking only 208 doom damage at a time while they have +100% hp
spice turret
Oh wow, that sounds like hell
mellow quest
that's with epic level 5 doom attack
pallid dagger
so that i'm very clear about my situation here, guan yu is not somethingi try to spin with. i know better.
That part of the weapon is absolutely unusable. i've learned to try to build around it, usually by using the skewer throw.
works absolutely brilliantly until you get to asterius, who doesn't politely die in 3 hits maximum and also deals a huge amount of damage with each hit. which will often be when he runs you down and you can't avoid it.
think i made my grievances on that last one clear. 💢 💢 💢
mellow quest
it's so bad as a main source of damage, why does Ares suck at dealing damage as the god of war 🤔
mild crag
You can avoid asterius charging you tho, just make him hit the walls 
mellow quest
the fight would have been even longer if i didn't have deflect dash to make Theseus hit himself with the spear throw
pallid dagger
i made my thoughts on that clear too. self-referenced in the feedback channel. i don't know how it works for y'all, but i'm dashing back and forth across pillars and he just circles around them.
he does that nonsense Way Too Often
mild crag
I find the pillars unreliable so I try to use the walls instead
Just stand against the wall and dodge at the last second
His turning circle usually makes him hit the wall
pallid dagger
it's just absolutely disheartening that i can have the biggest, baddest build, and it'll all come crashing down the moment it takes more than a few hits to kill something
bold salmon
Spin isnt unusable, just have to be careful when you use it
bold salmon
Promise you learning how to fight the bosses and considering the advice given is much better than just saying the game is too hard... 😕
thorny edge
asterius is doing his 2 swings - dash away and spin
asterius does his leap after the swing - dodge and spin
asterius charges - dash through pillar or towards a wall and when he's stunned spin
any other time i do dash attacks
theseus can and does get in the way frequently but its still manageable
pallid dagger
i think you got lost. i don't have doom on gy spear.
sacred idol
I'm a godsdamn terrible player and I find GY Asterius to be easy relative to... I dunno, hell, a Fury is harder
The other dude did
RIP
That's an oof of a build
mellow quest
i'm pretty done playing with No Choice at this point, that modifier is just not very engaging
spice turret
Someone else did have the Doom on the attack
sacred idol
you go Deflect for defense, Chill for general CC and good damage, Weak for crazy damage
mellow quest
i had it on the shield
spice turret
I did, actually, fairly recently. It was the first thing I found, and I wasn't using spins, so it at least procced privilege
mellow quest
it was the only thing offered
sacred idol
Yeah, No Choice is a rip
it's just not fun
you do it for the fates and tell it to bugger off, like budget cuts
mellow quest
im just sitting at the temple of styx and i just dont wanna continue if im gonna have to beat dad up with doom shield
sacred idol
but someone saying "GY spin is completely unusable and I know better" is just... wrong?
thorny edge
what do you put doom attack on?
bold salmon
Shield doom isnt the worst thing imo if youre focusing bull charge...not great but not horrible.
sacred idol
"I know better than to use one of the important parts of my kit"
bold salmon
Well actually yea it isnt great...
I put it on bow sometimes if i dont have a choice.
sacred idol
shield doom on Chaos special is spicy
it's like, the baby version of dio special
but with one hit at a time, ugh, you're better off with buggered anything else
spice turret
I mean, the fact of the matter for me is that Spear spins of all kinds are pretty clunky.
sacred idol
kill the run, take your loot, and try again.
spice turret
(Barring quick spin, anyway)
sacred idol
that is a fair point
mellow quest
doom is a lot nicer as supplementary damage, like putting it on the rail special and ambushing enemies as they spawn in with it
sacred idol
if you don't have QS it's clunky
dense star
Quick Spin helps
pallid dagger
i'm not about to get into another argument about whether or not i'm playing the game wrong, so please cut it out. i'm starting to think you don't know how obnoxious it is when you mockingly quote people.
i wouldn't be cowed anyway. the feedback channel is full of innumerable people complaining about the guan yu spear, has been since the update.
sacred idol
but it's certainly not "unusable"
mellow quest
but it's so slow otherwise
sacred idol
I'm starting to think you don't know how obnoxious your general attitude is.
dense star
Otherwise pretty much the only time spin gets used for me is when things first spawn
sacred idol
Whine and whine and whine and insult everyone who disagrees with you.
sacred folio
I almost always take Flurry Jab and just forget about the spin attack
turbid needle
Guan Yu is the current favorite for 32 Heat on the spear.
sacred idol
I'm the kind of loser who DD'd twice in Tartarus
and I know to make tighter turns than Asterius' radius
pallid dagger
it's possible i don't have the patience to keep up with people cannot fathom a person playing or experiencing a game differently than they do.
sacred folio
(But I never really used GuanYu's
sacred idol
Unless this is some +40% enemy speed thing, in which case he may indeed be far more BS than usual
mellow quest
i haven't played around with the new spear aspect much, seems uninteresting when heat eventually turns off health regen entirely
bold salmon
I mean youre doing the same to us Grim as we give you advice...
dense star
Funny enough Guan Yu spear doesn't care about Lasting Consequences
sacred idol
@pallid dagger except you're the only one assuming with your consistently angry, hostile, insulting attitude toward literally anyone who tries to engage you in conversation, drop the victim complex and maybe you'll solve your problem
mellow quest
thank goodness, I get to replace doom shield attack with Dio hangover attack
sacred idol
but I'm just going to be productive and politely ask SG to nerf the turning radius on the bull and the chariots
pallid dagger
i'll wait for examples. so far all i've done is cite my own gameplay and things i've already said in feedback.
i'm happy to talk with you up until you start trying to take little snipes at me because it makes you feel good
sacred idol
they're objectively a touch excessive, bull man can practically turn 240 degrees
holy crap
can you go two minutes without assuming everyone is out to get you?
pallid dagger
i'm not. you are. I'm pretty sure you did this last night, too.
sacred idol
the other day it was ranting about "the gamers"
lmao
is this a joke?
am I being punked?
pallid dagger
you're doing it right now.
left timber
now this is epic
mellow quest
so am i the only one that doesn't take World Splitter on the sword just because the animation of only jump attacking is a little goofy
mild crag
World Splitter is awesome
dense star
I liked world splitter with Nemesis sword, big damage numbers
turbid needle
World Splitter is pretty cool on low heat.
mellow quest
it's a perfectly fine hammer upgrade but it's so unaesthetic
turbid needle
I do too, but Double Edge spam is better.
sacred idol
@dense star I dunno, this one guy's been raging at people for two days
mild crag
But I wouldn't dare use it on high heat
dense star
Though I've been using poseidon blade lately so it's less appealing to me
lament coral
how high are we talking here?
lament coral
been using Splitter on 20
mellow quest
sword is rough on high heat
mild crag
idk I don't even use the sword tbh
dense star
Good to note @sacred idol haven't been around the past few days
lament coral
sometimes I just don't wanna do Poseidon with Arty cast
dense star
Atm I'm around 10 heat
lament coral
because it's the same crap as always
a chore until you get the legendary and dual cast, a cake walk after
sacred idol
I just don't like sword.
dense star
Fair, it's not seeming like many of the casts are great with poseidon blade
sacred idol
Because I'm bad.
turbid needle
Not Hunting Blades.
lament coral
ah, yes
that Ares cast that requires a duo to be useful
I sometimes go the entire run without seeing attack/special/cast, so the odds of getting a specific duo are not particularly encouraging
mellow quest
my favorite cast build was the crystal beam from demeter + the 3 extra bloodstones legendary + greater recall
i had it at 13 damage per tick
lament coral
especially when your build relies on that duo to live
dense star
Don't know how it is on high heat, but it's alright if you hit ares legendary, (which of course is also tougher to hit like Hunting Blades)
Yeah
mellow quest
completely melted the bosses
sacred idol
Ares is... not great.
lament coral
it felt absolutely fine to me on 15-ish heat
turbid needle
Ares requires a bit of RNG but his builds spike stronger than any other in the game.
sacred idol
That thing about his boons being... messy and not cohesive is definitely true
lament coral
but as you go up, the damage output with a ton of blade boons is uninspiring
mild crag
Well I'd consider 32 high heat
sacred idol
Well, Blade Rifts in particular
mild crag
I'm sure it's fine around 20
sacred idol
The mechanic is pretty poor in general
Unless you do have Hunting Blades and stacks of all-in investment
mellow quest
blade rifts are fine, they just don't hit very hard without lots of poms and require a lot of investment
bold salmon
So Art special on Chiron bow with charge special hammer is nice.
sacred idol
in other words, they're not fine :p
lament coral
I guess if you get creative with your modifiers
sacred idol
that's the same state Poseidon is in
mellow quest
whereas other things like, you take demeter special and you're good
lament coral
like not touching Forced Overtime, so enemies would stick around longer
dense star
I need to try charged special with chiron bow at some point
sacred idol
and arguably, Poseidon is the worst god because the current game structure requires one on one fights, and he takes far too much investment to get to the point of being able to affect those reasonably
mild crag
Is it still broken?
mellow quest
i think Poseidon is only good if you commit to the cheese
mild crag
Charged special with chiron
lament coral
no
sacred idol
Poseidon is good for farming
mild crag
How it reduces the range to non functional
sacred idol
or get phenomenal RNG and, again, get an all-in poseidon stack with a good duo
dense star
My chiron runs keep seeing it with +4 special arrows so I never bother to see how it is
mellow quest
the range on charged special scales with how long you charge it, oesn't it
lament coral
the damage is fantastic but the need to charge and not being able to dash cancel the special just kill you
sacred idol
Things that require far too much investment to be viable just aren't good.
lament coral
especially against Hades
dense star
Makes sense
sacred idol
UNLESS their return on investment is proportionally massive
dense star
Good thing I've been avoiding it 
old wave
lament coral
the best approach, at least for me, was to stick close to Hades and just point blank him, without even using the mark
turbid needle
You mean like Hunting Blades being the strongest boon in the game?
That kind of massive?
lament coral
GY is flex
sacred idol
Is that objective fact?
sacred idol
How much does special charge improve it? And what boon goes on?
lament coral
granted, if you don't get the charge, you might be boned
Aphrodite
it's the only choice, max +% damage
turbid needle
Why wouldn't you want Artemis for charging?
sacred idol
well, not that much flex if it's dependent on one god
also, how is Hunting Blades the strongest?
turbid needle
The charge from the Hammer outweighs almost any modifier an individual god can give, and crits give bigger returns anyway.
lament coral
because +300% is better than +100% and a chance at a crit
sacred idol
I tried it, it was good but not that good.
lament coral
in my experience
mellow quest
artimes's damage addition is quite low even compared to athena, and on the slower weapons/aspects the crit chance is not really going to help you much
turbid needle
Big damage, super safe. Only thing safer is the shield, but Hunting Blades lets you play keep away even harder while dealing better damage.
sacred idol
Unless you get unholy quantities of poms on a high rarity pressure points, it doesn't feel like crits are worthwhile on single hits that aren't AOE
turbid needle
What's the modifier for max Charged Skewer?
stiff stone
@sacred idol That was just an example of an alternate attack, the power shot could be that you keep the attack pressed for longer for more range and damage. The sky is the limit as far as I’m concerned.
sacred idol
HB didn't feel like it was inherently faster than, say, dio special chaos shield
which is pretty ape
turbid needle
I'd like to calc out the damage for Common level Hunting Blades and Chaos Throw.
mellow quest
i had a nuts run with the artimes attack at heroic tier + twin shot flurry fire bow + pressure points and the boon that makes crits do more damage, and that was paired with dealdy reversal with a deflect dash and cast
turbid needle
50 DPS from the poison tick, 300 DPS for the Blade Rifts.
sacred idol
anyway, Ares' issue, mainly
turbid needle
My math might be wrong.
sacred idol
Is that both halves of his concept don't mesh well together.
Blade Rift and Doom feel like they're both fighting for space on his kit
mellow quest
what's the name of the ares boon that makes doom deal a lot more damage and adds a half second delay
sacred idol
Doom itself, as has been observed, is... very very bad with certain types of attacks
turbid needle
Impending Doom.
mellow quest
honestly it feels like that's how doom should just be in general
sacred idol
Yeah, I feel like that should be baked in
mild crag
A lot of gods have sheit on certain weapons
sacred idol
but also, I feel like Ares should stop trying to be two different gods
mild crag
Zeus and Dio are terrible on every slow weapon
turbid needle
No, you want slow hits with doom, or AoE.
mellow quest
the delay is often beneficial for getting the bonus damage for applying 2 statuses
dense star
Though dio is also pretty crazy on high hit rate weapons
turbid needle
Exactly.
dense star
Polarizing ^
turbid needle
Different gods work on different weapons.
sacred idol
Oh wait, right
AOE... yeah, the mortar is nuts with doom
Blade Rift is far worse off though
other than HBlades
Blade Dash is the worst dash, period
dense star
Yeah
sacred idol
possibly one of the least useful boons in the entire game as it currently is
mellow quest
i would say that's still sometimes better than the artimes dash boon
sacred idol
Unless you get a lot of luck and get like
mellow quest
but often it is the worst
turbid needle
Someone hasn't used Hestia.
dense star
Bad source of rifts, and it adds the rift modifiers to the boon choices
Kinda like zeus dash
turbid needle
Or Double Edge Nemesis sprees.
mellow quest
zeus dash starts off bad but jolted gets offered pretty quickly and that turns it around so fast
dense star
Yeah, dash + jolted helps it
turbid needle
Epic Hunter Dash adds 150 damage to Hestia's shot.
sacred idol
Oh
Hunter Dash IS good
Dash strikes are silly good on some weapons/many weapons
Actually
You know the ol' Dash Shotgun build?
That and Hunter Dash is nutty
mellow quest
yeah but there are occasions where you end up just not caring about dash strike at all
dense star
Though usually if you want zeus boons you want an attack mod for the jolted enabler, not thr dash. At least for me
sacred idol
get Dio attack or something and you're profiting hard
turbid needle
That's every build, man.
sacred idol
well, every occasion is when you don't care about blade dash.
because of HOW it deploys a rift
turbid needle
Deadly Strike is great with Spread Fire.
mellow quest
only great
sacred idol
If it worked like Mistral or Aphro's dash
Then it'd be usable WITH a blade rift build
mellow quest
I'd say it's one of the most busted boons for spread fire
sacred idol
The other issue is, speccing into blade rifts has to be all in
mellow quest
especially if you have budgeted for backstab damage and picked up Exposed
sacred idol
Because it's got zero synergy with Doom, every choice toward it runs counter to building up Doom
mellow quest
since when was Ares known for using sawblades anyway
sacred idol
and if you're going for them, you'll probably want hunting blades, so that's just... adding extra stuff to a cast build
part of it is that dash for dps is just trash though
mellow quest
i think my favorite duo effect is zeus + demeter, jolted not expiring is sooooo strong
sacred idol
oh yeah that's insane
mellow quest
artimes + aphrodite duo can be super busted but typically that is not a combo of boons you are going to want to assemble
sacred idol
Okay, hear me out, though.
mellow quest
and it's pretty straightforward/boring compared to some other duos
sacred idol
What if one of the Attack/Special got swapped with dash for Ares
rift on an attack that actually does something, doom on dash for easy procs
bake impending doom in
mellow quest
dash inflicting doom could be pretty ok
sacred idol
yeah, and if you could spawn a rift per hit it'd get pretty nutso with the usual flurry builds
or dash striking and leaving a DoT field...
Heart Rend is silly.
Weird busted calc
I do think it'd be a worthy build in and of itself though
Because you can pressure point the aphro attack and get ridiculous damage
turbid needle
You have to have Deadly Strike or Flourish to spawn Heart REnd.
mellow quest
i've been extremely underwhelmed by the artimes + zues duo where dropped bloodstones call lighting for a grand 1.5 seconds
turbid needle
Yeah, Lightning Rod stinks and we all wish Freak Accident (lightning bolt on crit) were back.
spice turret
So, that wave at the start of stage two, final boss, does that just... do like 120 damage base?
sacred idol
Divine Dash, Deadly Strike/Flourish, Heartbreak Strike/Flourish
and both Heart Rend and Deadly Reversal
spice turret
Like, as he's getting up.
sacred idol
you'd be rolling in a comical amount of damage
turbid needle
Yeah, that's the Nemesis build specialty.
turbid needle
It was my favorite boon in the game and I'm still salty about it.
mellow quest
even if it were like, constant bolts at a dropped bloodstone.. you almost always are wanting to get them back to cast again for boiling blood bonuses
turbid needle
Okay, it drops a lightning bolt ever 1.5 seconds.
sacred idol
Also, doesn't Hermes legendary completely delete that?
turbid needle
Maybe not quite as bad as you thought.
It does.
That is also why I want Freak Accident back.
mellow quest
i had a really tight exit wounds + greater recall build with the sword aspect that lets you get bloodstones back with a special hit
flurry cast? as well
turbid needle
Aspect of Poseidon got Exit Wounds nerfed hard.
mellow quest
turn your cast into the adamant rail
sacred idol
oofed
never gotten cast stuff to line up like that
best was barely getting Hunting Blades in Styx
that said, I have neither hera nor poseidon
so I've never bothered trying
mellow quest
cast builds are stupid strong when they fall together, but the blue shields curb them quite a bit
sacred idol
is it worth running casts without those, or a global buff like eris
dense star
Freak accident sounds cool
mellow quest
even with aoe casts like the phalanx shot
dense star
Gives me a reason to want zeus boons I guess
sacred idol
Blue shields and armor generally place an excessive emphasis on multi-hits in this game.
Because multishots straight up bypass them
I've seen dual shot on bow oneshot armored goons repeatedly.
mellow quest
what if 1 blue shield was only able to block 30 damage, so if you dealt more than 60 it would bleed through them
sacred idol
Single hit damage is just... disadvantaged compared to several instances
just because of gating mechanics
then again, that was true in Bastion
with that one bloody mirror god
nothing sucks more than having your mortar or calamity cannon shots just reflect back into your face.
mellow quest
i really didn't like the idol system in bastion
sacred idol
well, more of the latter
the former just kinds nopes out, the latter ricochets back and kills you
mellow quest
it was worse about "hey, let's turn off game mechanics outright"
sacred idol
I love the concept of SG's adjustable difficulty shtick
turbid needle
Wasn't the Mortar and Calamity Cannon one of the better all-idol builds?
sacred idol
but I've always had at least one specific debuff I loathed with a burning passion
Maybe, it's been a long while since I played. Mortar might actually bypass those bastards.
I do remember the Cannon bouncing off a guy and back into my face too many times, though
mellow quest
im not a fan of the 7 minute limit or complete -100% health regen
mellow quest
and No Choice is like Busted Crown
sacred idol
imo, rank 1 of budget cuts should cut out Olympian Favor and up
mellow quest
just not interesting
turbid needle
No way, No Choice is worse.
sacred idol
Busted Crown?
mellow quest
it turns off the decision making
mellow quest
busted crown in slay the spire makes you see 2 fewer card rewards
sacred idol
double No Choice is just
no
that's more like No Fun
Underworld Customs also kinda lame
mellow quest
budget cuts is at least interesting because you invest in what is valuable to you and your playstyle
sacred idol
Especially with the way runs have no guarantee of getting more than one boon in Tartarus, lul
Several runs with one boon...
one crap boon, no less
BC's problem is that it's set so harshly you can barely have anything
at level one
turbid needle
Yeah, it should start at 3500, enough for all QoL options.
sacred idol
and is only worth a tiny amount of heat for the fact that it cripples you for over half the mirror
like I said, rank 1 should cut off below like, your massive stack of Olympian Favor.
smoky oasis
Not sure if intended but I find this pretty weird https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/610827422580998145/674873434773389352/20200206134559_1.jpg
I thought that fallen pillar would block the laser
mellow quest
i think it would be better as steps of 800. so 4,000/3,200/2400/1600/800
sacred idol
lmao 800 is practically naked
mellow quest
it goes all the way down to 500 currently
dense star
No darkness runs 
sacred idol
oof
mellow quest
no darkness at all is more of a self imposed challenge
sacred idol
yeah lul
sacred idol
GY 0 darkness 
mellow quest
no darkness you get 7 minutes, go go go
sacred idol
enjoy your 25 health run
at that point, you may as well take the damn pierced butterfly.
because if you get hit, you're dead anyway
mild crag
No darkness is only toxic because you don't get a second dash
mild crag
No darkness except second dash would be fine
smoky oasis
I think some guy has done it
smoky oasis
He cleared the game the first run
mellow quest
im sure there is someone that has done a no hit run with a single dash
smoky oasis
like the very first run after u open new save
smoky oasis
takes lots of tries
mellow quest
i made it all the way to Elyseium on the first run but then the armored shieldbearers said no
go buy meta upgrades
smoky oasis
not first try, first run on a new save
sacred idol
right
smoky oasis
I doubt totally new player could get to styx
sacred idol
still, doing that on the base sword the first time... oof
at that point, there should be a giant statue of Zag in the great hall
smoky oasis
hah I think everyone who enjoy this game are masochists
not enough suffering? let's add more
mellow quest
to be fair you get athena always as the first run
deflect dash or attack can do some serious work
smoky oasis
KEKW
sacred idol
even on no heat, I've never won above 35? 40?
if it's that slow, I'll have died by elysium
mellow quest
just don't get hit and carpet bomb everything 4Head
smoky oasis
if it goes past 40 mins, I will have strong tendency to just give up
sacred idol
I remember having to do a whole boss fight with unhammered single bomb only
and whichever boss it was just dodging every slow-ass mortar
mellow quest
i was kinda surprised at how easy the hades fight is aside form summon rng
i scream internally when he summons giant butterfly ball
sacred idol
eh. wouldn't say easy
smoky oasis
lel
sacred idol
I always die to his nonsensically large spin
smoky oasis
I rarely die to spins though
mellow quest
the telegraph is pretty generous
mellow quest
sometimes it nicks me but if i get hit it's usually overlapping shockwaves or the ultralaser
sacred idol
I lost a 37 minute run with 300 HP
mild crag
I suffer impatience so I give up slow runs or suicide
mellow quest
sometimes jar
turbid needle
I had a bug eat a No Choice win with the spear.
sacred idol
wait, wtf, was I on Guan...?
how did I have THAT much health
I vaguely remember healing...
smoky oasis
can't be guan
sacred idol
may not have been the 300hp run, I just know I had an unreasonable amount of HP for Guan Yu and still lost
probably like 150?
mellow quest
doesn't the guan aspect affect future max hp rewards
sacred idol
just got aped by No Choice completely
smoky oasis
yea guan half ur hp and hp gain
sacred idol
I may have won the 300 health one
mellow quest
so like cursed slash then
sacred idol
but I had something like 150 and still died, the killing blow was the very edge of Hades' spear
mellow quest
i think my dumbest run was one with flurry strike cursed slash athena attack
i could sorta just facetank everything
and i built the hp high enough that i would get the impervious gates
and heal back to full during them
sacred idol
rofl
mellow quest
mostly just had to be careful in the bosses
smoky oasis
usually after big hit
sacred idol
oh right half the reason I keep getting owned is because I have a habit of forgetting that Troves in Styx are instant death
smoky oasis
maybe they have % dmg cap
mellow quest
it reminded me of playing borderlands 2 and abusing healthgate
smoky oasis
so you dont get 1 shotted
sacred idol
Troves are just... dumb in styx
mellow quest
it seemed like it was about a ~40-50% gate
sacred idol
a full map's worth of enemies in a space the size of Zag's room
mellow quest
if the damage does that much you get impervious to gate it
sacred idol
all armored
all probably vomiting poison on every square centimeter of the room, or it's just six snakestones
mellow quest
there also seemed to be one for taking a rapid number of hits in quick succession
in case you got cornered by witches
sacred idol
anyone else think Styx troves are complete bs?
smoky oasis
its alright, its just annoying
mellow quest
they're good for farming if you're already on a farming Poseidon run
sacred idol
No, I mean, just the way they spawn enough enemies to saturate the map with Kills-Zagreus-Juice
because the mini rooms are far too small for the number of enemies spawned
mellow quest
who doesn't like their screen being filled with WALL SLAM and CORNERED
sacred idol
are there ever troves in end rooms?
turbid needle
Yes.
smoky oasis
just double slam them to the walls
sacred idol
because then you can stunlock them
smoky oasis
4Head
sacred idol
otherwise, well, time to drown in rat sweat
or get lasered by a room full of snakestones in that one mini room with 0 cover
smoky oasis
I don't open troves in styx anyways
sacred idol
I should stop doing it like an idiot, tbh
sacred idol
that's what I mean
the loot is still the same, but being crammed in that tiny space makes the risk intense
mellow quest
but how else are you going to fund the crippling addiction to buying cosmetic items for Cerberus
sacred idol
It's like... Cluster Bomb in a normal room, vs firing Cluster Bomb standing next to a pillar.
One of them is gonna murder a single target significantly harder
smoky oasis
styx sure have issues
random final room is really annoying too
I have lost too many runs due to running out of time in styx
mellow quest
i enjoy accidentally losing 150 hp because of Heightened Security
smoky oasis
I have to stop playing the clock now
shrewd topaz
Yeah, I'd rather play safe without a clock
Vs having more wiggle room and a clock to go against
Especially in styx
mellow quest
the time limit feels good for Tartarus and Asphodel but soooo sketchy for Elysium
and then just "guess I'll lose" about 60% of the time Styx
turbid needle
I have way more issue with the timer in Elysium than I do in Styx.
smoky oasis
elysium is ok cuz u can use keep sake to bring down Thesus quickly
turbid needle
You don't have shields and respawning enemies in Styx.
mellow quest
sack in 5th tunnel on a doom "build"
sacred idol
I wish clearing earlier floors faster could give bonus time.
@smoky oasis What keepsake?
smoky oasis
I use Meg
sacred idol
oh, risky play
turbid needle
You guys know Merciful End held the speedrun WR before Aspect of Poseidon, right?
turbid needle
Those are Legendary Keepsakes.
smoky oasis
oh yea Legendary Keepsakes, not the normal
sacred idol
Oh.
I don't have those yet oof
questwalled
also unwilling to waste 5 blood on an aspect I dislike (zag sword) to get Skelly's...
mellow quest
||I enjoy dropping Bouldy on Dad||
sacred idol
Meg's still not far enough, Bouldy I literally just got the talk option two runs ago
Merciful End?
smoky oasis
meg helps u speed up hydra and theseus
turbid needle
You've never had Merciful End?
Oh my god, no wonder you think Ares is underpowered.
Attacks that can deflect instantly trigger Doom.
Curse of Pain/Agony into Divine Dash.
sacred idol
think I had it, but I don't remember every boon by name, man
shrewd topaz
merc end= duo boon on ares/athena
turbid needle
Add Exposed for instant Privileged Status.
mellow quest
make doom slightly faster while relying mostly on the good athena boons
sacred idol
"instantly trigger" as in, they detonate existing dooms?
turbid needle
Yes.
smoky oasis
The expose is damn good
sacred idol
so you stack Impending Doom and immediately reverse detonate it by dashing?
turbid needle
Look it up on YouTube.
turbid needle
Also works with anything that hits enemies and Deflects.
mellow quest
Supergiant, pls make Artemis step up her game
sacred idol
speaking of Deflect, is reflect damage a worthy boon to take
smoky oasis
Artemis already strong
mellow quest
marked is not good
turbid needle
Brilliant Riposte?
smoky oasis
well she's not meant for status anyways
turbid needle
It's the prereq for Athena's Legendary, but not on its own.
turbid needle
Expose as a backstab booster is hit-and-miss.
Sometimes it does nothing, other times World Splitter crits for 4k.
sacred idol
Backstab itself is hit and miss.
turbid needle
Also yes.
sacred idol
On Theseus, it's miss and blocked.
turbid needle
But as a Status Curse it's one of the best. 5 seconds is a long time.
sacred idol
quality joke
manic ermine
I want to be able to backstab hydra
shrewd topaz
Especially for priv status
turbid needle
I'm still salty we can't backstab Hydra heads.
mellow quest
i made the mistake of dropping 6 crystal beams towards theseus
turbid needle
RIP
sacred idol
yeah, it's just free Priv if you're running divine dash and need a second status
smoky oasis
which head? 4Head
mellow quest
the block chained sounds were so awful
sacred idol
Oh lul
shrewd topaz
Priv status definitely goes a long way for sure
smoky oasis
btw how do speed runners have enough dmg to 1 shot hydra?
manic ermine
Summons
mellow quest
it has to be a summon
turbid needle
Using Meg's Companion.
If we could backstab the Hydra World Splitter/Rocket Bomb crits could do it
mellow quest
personally i really do not enjoy the hydra fight, and i only recently started playing so i didn't even have to endure it when it had more phases
it's not really difficult, just tedious
mild crag
Do you use extreme measures?
mild crag
Hm I thought it was difficult enough with EM at least
smoky oasis
EM is the one that change the boss fight?
mellow quest
it's not like the furies and thesus+asterius fight where it actually changes the dynamic quite a bit
just breaks up the platform and now you move clockwise or counterclockwise with the main head at the center instead of top
sacred idol
The thought of EM Hades fills me with dread.
mellow quest
there isn't one for Hades
mellow quest
I think that'll be in an update at some point
but right now it's just the first 3 bosses
turbid needle
Hades currently only has one version.
mellow quest
||Extreme Measures Hades just puts 4x as many pots and bloodstones down||
4Head
i think the worst summons in that fight are immortal butterfly ball or double armored chariots
sacred idol
@mellow quest I know, I'm saying, if they add it... eesh
mellow quest
ah, got it
smoky oasis
Can block everything from spin to laser to explosion
mellow quest
i actually underutilize the shield block
sacred idol
EM: He just summons double at once, and it's only butterballs or shieldies
mellow quest
and it still feels like one of the stronger weapons
smoky oasis
it still is
sacred idol
I feel like the butterball in general is too tanky
mellow quest
it's interesting in the "elite" fight
sometimes you want to take your time
others you ignore the adds and burst it down
but it is way too tanky to throw into the Hades fight imo
smoky oasis
the way to beat hades fast is using full call
I usually use after 2nd impervious and 4th impervious
sacred idol
It's too tanky for an elite as well
also, the run I lost was with upgraded athena call oof
mellow quest
i had the weak attack adamant rail at common level 1 but with charm chance on weak
that was how i got my first win
it was so stupid and incredibly slow
Dad can't kill you if he loves you
mellow quest
bow is either extremely fast or sluggish
smoky oasis
just keep dodging his attack, hit and run
mellow quest
never feels like it's in between
feels bad when your damage is 300% explosive shot + sniper shot
and nothing else
is there a resource somewhere detailing the boon unlock conditions
im trying to finish the last couple of prophecies for gods
chrome geyser
What are some fun casts for hera bow besides artemis?
turbid needle
Dionysus or Poseidon.
mellow quest
thanks
smoky oasis
what about athena cast and ares cast?
chrome geyser
i had ice wine which was terrible with the activation delay on the bow.
chrome geyser
ares cast, does it stay in place or move forward? That could be fun.
turbid needle
Moves forward.
sacred idol
@mellow quest steam guides has duo stuff too
smoky oasis
what's the % for legendary and duo boon?
also do you need heroic boon first before legendary?
turbid needle
Legendary boons are singular unique boons that do something different for every Olympian.
Heroic is just one rarity level above Epic.
livid comet
So I just found out something
you lose all your fish when you start a new run
😦
😦
😦
mellow quest
You need 2 tier 1 or 2 boons to see a legendary (tier 3) boon
turbid needle
Had a couple of Stonwhals saved up?
turbid needle
livid comet
hm>
turbid needle
(I'm pressing F to pay respects ten times)
turbid needle
I don't think it is.
turbid needle
Agreed.
livid comet
I've put it in feedback
bold salmon
How many Ambrosias do i need?
Cuz ive yet to get something that needs it and i have 15 just sitting here
turbid needle
Zeus and Rail are fine. https://i.imgur.com/4heK5DJ.png
mild crag
Cold Fusion 
turbid needle
It's one of my favorites. 
turbid needle
"Fine" was being facetious.
oblique tusk
well
turbid needle
This is a build that can beat 32 Heat, the hardest difficulty in the game that has any sort of reward.
oblique tusk
zeus in general kinda sucks without duos/legendaries
turbid needle
Hard disagree.
Decent attack rate and Privileged Status will get you through at least 10 Heat.
turbid needle
Inescapable Blast and Triple Bomb.
sacred idol
Zeus sucks on low hitcount and is amazing on high hitcount almost regardless of whatever else you have
EXCEPT on shotgun stuff
Does it proc once or 7 times on Chiron?
turbid needle
Once.
sacred idol
oof
turbid needle
7/11 times with Sea Storm, though.
oblique tusk
what do y'all prefer for shotgun rail?
turbid needle
Dionysus, Demeter, and Artemis.
sacred idol
Does Zeus proc once per arrow on NORMAL Bow special?
turbid needle
@sacred idol Yes.
If you can get Arctic Blast Spread Fire gets a pretty good DPS increase.
manic ermine
Zeus bolts are weird, they can sometimes hit more than once, probably a small icd
sacred idol
and I thought arctic blast was useless
manic ermine
Useless? its very strong
sacred idol
is it ever useful on NOT shotgun type attacks?
turbid needle
Uuuhh, Flurry Jab?
manic ermine
You give up consistent slow to add support fire damage onto your chilling hits
sacred folio
Flurry Jab doesn't feel fast enough to warrant picking up Lightning Strike
Base damage of spear attack is 20/30/30. A high +% damage from Aphrodite / Artemis feels better than lightning
turbid needle
I miss Attack up Zagreus Aspect.
Had a Dionysus build with Black Out and Extended Jab where each poke to the back was doing 100 damage.
sacred idol
I feel like single hit attacks really need to be buffed though.
dim rapids
got a curious question here: is there actually a good use for black shawl?
dim rapids
only if you're doing a run that already has the bounties clear
oblique tusk
...if you've cleared max heat, yeah
dim rapids
if you keep climbing the ladder with heat
and if you've cleared max heat you probably don't need the extra heal from black shawl
cause you're probably building good builds with god keepsakes or using something else that's better
oblique tusk
does anyone know how you unlock more songs from the music stand?
i don't see any options to buy them
i've beaten extra heat levels since i got it
not getting any dialogue from orpheus
dim rapids
more songs?
what do you mean
all songs should be there
did you buy the music stand for 1 diamond?
dim rapids
not sure then
once i bought it i had all options available to me
only hymn to zag wasn't available till after you tell all the stories i think
dim rapids
is it me or does megaera have a different death animation after you romance her?
atomic panther
The remains of destroyable pillars don't block attacks
ripe iron
Yep. Super confusing.
mild crag
@dim rapids Black shawl is pretty good for new players uwu
potent tinsel
^
dim rapids
idk i never saw the point of black shawl for new players when arguably achilles/skelly/cerberus keepsakes are more helpful
skelly gives you DD when you can't afford it early game
cerberus gives you more HP when your base HP is 50 early game
achilles is just damage reduction from the front in general (all around good)
bold salmon
Is upgrading a summon different than giving it as a gift?
OMG...
Guys...Dio Premium Vintage on Guan gives the full 25hp
main citrus
👀
bold salmon
dim rapids
it shouldn't work that way, i just did a guan yu run and i only got 12.5 life i think
rancid shore
have they not updated the heart icon for that one?
bold salmon
Maybe i got a bug?
dim rapids
i have no idea, maybe report it then
but i know i didn't get 25 life
is there a list of every item that is purchasable in the contractor?
mild crag
i think it says it gives you that much but it doesnt in the end
obtuse ravine
as far as I can tell Meg's death animation is same after romancing her, but her voice lines change
brisk copper
just noticed.. is it just rng or the first boon in Asphodel usually comes from Hermes most of the time? Even with keepsakes from other gods equiped..
elfin wagon
The game tries to get you to have a Hermes boon by last chamber of Tartarus-first half of Asphodel, and another boon around the middle of Elysium. It's about same-ish for hammers but slightly earlier
Not hard and fast rule
sacred folio
Just found a fun fact: the spear's spin attack has 3 different charge stages. I always thought there are only 2 stages.
The damage for each charge stage is 30 / 50 / 100
Same for Guan Yu's Aspect -- 3 stages of charging with the damage numbers 20 / 30 / 50
I not quite sure if it's a bug or not. But the time window for the first stage of charge is quite small. And there's no visual indication for it at all -- you'll have to release the attack button before Zag flashes white color (which is the indicator for the 2nd stage's readiness).
Anyway I'll just put this on the Wiki
stable onyx
how does those locked vaults open under the artifacts
dim rapids
tfw finish romancing everyone before vanquishing enough of alecto and tisiphone
turbid needle
@halcyon latch uhm you might want to edit your feedback because of spoilers
pastel jolt
it's fine
wild ibex
omg demeter legendary feels great against bosses
I killed act 3 bosses at the same time
halcyon latch
@turbid needle phone discord won't let me spoiler last I tried, and I made a point not to discuss anything regarding plot. It's just mechanics.
I did remove the name.
turbid needle
I mean according to a mod it was fine, so uh my comment was basically pointless, sorry for the tag
wild ibex
my best run so far
demeter dio is so strong together!
I havent lost any deaths to hades for the first time
halcyon latch
@turbid needle I know, but I'm too nice for my own good sometimes. :)
grand patrol
@halcyon latch somehow it wasnt caught i guess so can i ask you to please edit the f word out of your most recent feedback? thanks
dim rapids
does anyone know if poseidon special applies to all thrown shields?
naive tusk
Athena because she has a shield 😄 (just kidding)
turbid needle
Depends on the aspect, but usually Ares is nice
If you have chaos aspect, dio becomes a good option, and demeter kinda
Zeus aspect obvious zeus special, artemis works nicely too
untold quiver
@dim rapids all the shields have the special
dusky drum
im boutta try guan yu with aphro attack, ares special, and their duo
cuz that sound fun
trail sparrow
So quick question, which is the best aspect for rail?
sacred idol
toss-up
tall dove
4th one
trail sparrow
I’ve been thinking zag one bc it’s pretty useful
sacred idol
hestia for big chonky single hit damage
eternal stag
eris
dusky drum
i tihnk hestia
eternal stag
i don't like hestia
sacred idol
or eris for a flexible universal dps buff
eternal stag
i hate having to reload manually
sacred idol
that multiplies anything and everything under the sun
eternal stag
bring back heavy slug
sacred idol
personal pref though
trail sparrow
I didn’t expect instant answers o_o
naive tusk
Yay for no wait time and attention
sacred idol
do you want versatility and compatibility with all boons, or just the raw strength to instant gib anything unarmored for half the run with a good attack boon?
also, Zag aspect is bad.
It's just...
trail sparrow
Oh
sacred idol
not really interesting and almost never useful unless you have very specific setups
or just loathe reloading with every fiber of your being
sacred idol
objectively it's weaker than the other two, subjectively it's probably fun if you have Concentrated Fire and whatever else improves the main gun and Zeus attack
but otherwise bleeeugh
naive tusk
What if Zagreus aspect had that hammer upgrade where each consecutive hit dealt +1 damage? It wouldn’t be as bad
sacred idol
yeah, that's the only thing that really makes it
imo, there should be a riot shield welded to that thing, though
read: damage taken decreases the longer you fire
naive tusk
Hm... Should I put it as feedback? They might consider it haha
naive tusk
So Zag railgun doesnt have much hate lol
sacred idol
one less extraneous hammer that doesn't work on any other build = good
I got downvoted to hell when I proposed giving it a ramping up and down time, though
I kinda want it like a minigun, not instant reset
naive tusk
Yeah, like innate Zag aspect bonus: the more ammo it currently has + that hammer upgrade
Sounds better imo
And both work well together, rewarding the consecutive hits you must do while having more ammo
I just need to know the name of that hammer upgrade. Do any of you know?
sacred idol
Concentrated Fire
naive tusk
Cheers!
storm wind
has anyone just found that they can't find demeter?
naive tusk
She appears after you do something specific
storm wind
ohhhhh
storm wind
is it a big spoiler?
sacred idol
Nah
naive cobalt
Not unless it's gone into detail
sacred idol
you'll have to do it to scrape past what is basically the tutorial, so
also I hear #h1-builds-and-combat is generally spoiler territory.
people talk about the final boss fight in excruciating detail, after all
speaking of which, the secret to getting Demeter: Win
storm wind
gotcha
sacred idol
But without seeing the outside, you haven't even touched Demeter's domain, after all
pastel jolt
you have to have at least gotten to the final boss
sacred idol
Ah, so you can lose? Got it
pastel jolt
you can lose! you just have to have gone through those big ol doors at least once
sacred idol
nice.
well, that certainly prepares you for revenge, as Demeter is currently one of the best gods in the game
abstract pilot
oddly enough, she also has no chill
sacred idol
The coolest.
bright mulch
Having recently thrown a great Eris run due to hurbris and some critical errors, I'd say rather than a frontal shield or damage reduction I think it would feel better if you could slow walk while firing
As someone pointed out earlier Spear guys in elysium outrage your gun, at that distance kiting often feels more like a exercise in monotony than a tense, fun activity. Being able to make those small adjustments while firing would potentially help make not just zag gun but maybe the rail in general more popular
sacred idol
Behold, the field in which I grow my f---s...
@bright mulch alas, animation budget kills move while firing
they'd have to make Zag float to make that work, or something
without animating a whole super complicated transition
lament coral
exalted spears are just whack
they seem to have the hammer upgrade that extends their range
bright mulch
Yeah, it's not easy to implement lol. One of those things that sounds really easy but is actually a huge pain lol
sacred idol
so I'd say add a frontal shield like Monster Hunter's heavy bowgun.
far better than nothing
lament coral
but the only exalted I truly dread meeting is the exalted grey archer
those dudes fire 7 shots and track you perfectly
manic ermine
run at him and he won't shoot
sacred idol
Exalted summon shieldbro
lament coral
really?
sacred idol
imagine the shield dudes, but even more immortal
lament coral
don't they eventually stop and take aim?
sacred idol
7 shots? Lul, they have Chiron bows?
manic ermine
He will try to run away before taking aim but you can just chase him
sacred idol
so they almost have Chiron bows.
lament coral
tracking is the biggest issue
if they worked the same way as elite archers, who just fire 3 arrows at the same spot, they woulda been nothing
grey archer is by far the worst grey exalted
but it's kinda upsetting that you don't get to really meet grey versions outside of Erebus and Hades
sacred idol
Worse than gray butterfly ball?
manic ermine
The one I least like to see in erebus is the witch as I always end up getting clipped being too aggressive
bright mulch
Make a pact option where it's Extreme Measures but for basic enemies lol
naive tusk
LOL
bright mulch
Yeah, just start moving enemies down a tier until you're just fighting Grey Exalted in every zone lol